Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - 'Van Girl' Gabby, 22, DISAPPEARS on Cross-Country Trip With Boyfriend

Episode Date: September 14, 2021

Police officers have been seen at the Florida home of Brian Laundrie, the boyfriend of Gabby Petito. The 22-year-old woman mysteriously vanished while the couple was on a road trip. Gabrielle “Gabby” Petito and Laundrie, 23, embarked on a cross-country road trip this summer, but Laundrie returned to Florida. Petito's whereabouts are unknown. Gabby last spoke with her mother via FaceTime on August 23 or 24. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Kathleen Murphy - North Carolina, Family Attorney, www.ncdomesticlaw.com, Twitter: @RalDivorceLaw,  Caryn Stark - NYC Psychologist, www.carynstark.com, Twitter: @carynpsych, Facebook: "Caryn Stark" Lisa M. Dadio - Former Police Lieutenant, New Haven Police Department, Senior Lecturer, Director of the Center for Advanced Policing at the University of New Haven University of New Haven's Forensic Science Department Kristy Mazurek - Emmy Award-winning Investigative Reporter, President of Successful Strategies PR and Crisis Communications Firm TIPLINE: Suffolk County Police Department 1-800-220-8477  GoFundMe: "Help us find Gabby"  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. A free spirit, beautiful young girl, just 22 years old, follows her dream. She and her boyfriend work tirelessly in the driveway of their home in Florida to convert a Ford Transit van into a travel camper. And they really did a beautiful job. I've looked at the inside of it. It looks like one of those fancy videos you see on HGTV where people take off across the country. And that's just what they did. But then we find out the boyfriend, Brian Landry, shows up back at home in Florida in the van, but no Gabby. Take a listen to our friend Jenna D'Angeles at CBS2.

An emotional mother holding onto a photo of her daughter is desperate for her to come home. Scary and it's nerve wracking. We don't sleep. We're just actively looking for her. Gabby Petito's family reported her missing Saturday to Suffolk County Police. The 22-year-old of Blue Point was on a cross-country road trip but kept in touch with her mom. At least three times a week we would FaceTime, call, text frequently. She kept me updated on this whole trip. Her mother says they last FaceTimed about

three weeks ago. The last text she received was on August 30th. The first couple of days I wasn't getting responses. I believe she was in a place with no service. It was like day eight and nine that I really became concerned. I've been on that exact route before with the twins in an RV, camping out as we went, cooking in a Dutch oven along the way. And the mom is right. There are a lot of dead spots where you can't get a cell to call out. We're looking at behavioral evidence.

How many days had passed before mom realized something was wrong? Take a listen to our friends at CBS2. Police say she's believed to have last been in Wyoming's Grand Teton National Park. Video of the trip was uploaded to YouTube August 19th. Her mother says she left New York early July for the trip, which was set to end in Oregon next month. She was traveling in this white van, which police say has been recovered. I just believe she's in danger because she's not in touch with us and she could be alone somewhere. She could be stranded somewhere in the wilderness and she needs help. Well, is that what

happened? Did she and her boyfriend have an argument and she stormed off? Did he just leave her stranded? My question is, why is he not being forthcoming and telling the story as to what happened to Gabrielle? As I told you, the van is found in his parents' driveway back in Florida. But no, Gabby, how did it all start? Take a listen to April Baker, Fox 13. Gabby is originally from New York, but she was living in Florida with her fiance at the time they took off on the road trip back in July. Her family tells Fox News that the couple was touring national parks in a converted camper van before heading to Salt Lake City. The couple actually documented most of their trip on Instagram and YouTube. You're seeing it here, some of it showing them hanging out in a tent outside Capitol Reef.

Gabby's mom, Nicole, says she last spoke on the phone with her daughter August 25th. That's very critical, as a matter of fact, because that travelogue video, which I have watched over and over and over, it's called, I think, Nomadic Static with a K, Static with a K. And it's very engrossing. It makes you want to be with them on the camper, this beautiful, wonderful trip. But it's critical to me because her last Instagram posting linked to that video. And that's really the last day, as I understand the timeline, that we know her to be safe and alive about the video. Take a listen to her video van life. Take a tiny listen. Gabby Petito never goes outside. take a listen to her video, Van Life. Take a tiny listen. You know, you hear this beautiful,

whimsical music throughout and it shows them traveling the country. A lot of the shots are video as they're, you know, looking out the window as they're flying past desert. They went to the Delicate Arch. They went to the Mystic Hot Springs. They covered everything beautiful in the West. How did it all go so horribly wrong? With me, an all-star panel to try to make some sense of what we know right now. And let me stress that authorities, including Suffolk County PD, where she's originally from in Long Island, the Florida Sarasota County PD and sheriffs, as well as now the FBI, who have been brought in, all state the boyfriend is not a suspect or a person of interest even though he comes back alone without Gabby parks the van in his parents driveway lawyers up with a lawyer and reportedly according to Gabby's family, refuses to cooperate with police. But again, he is not a suspect or not a person of interest, according to law enforcement. With me,

a renowned trial attorney, you know her well, Kathleen Murphy, joining us out of North Carolina. You can find her at ncdomesticlaw.com. Karen Stark, you know her well. She is a psychologist joining us out of Manhattan at karenstark.com. On Facebook, Karen Stark, that's with a C, who has analyzed nearly every high-profile criminal case that I can think of. Joining me, Lisa M. Daddio, former police lieutenant, New Haven Police Department lecturer and the director of the Center for Advanced Policing in New Haven, and Emmy award-winning investigative reporter, Christy Mazurik. Christy, let's start at the

beginning. Tell me about how the road trip, or the inception of the road trip. They were living together in Florida and this boyfriend promotes himself as a nature enthusiast. Wait, stop. What do you mean promotes himself? Well, on Facebook and all of his other social media, he promotes himself as a nature enthusiast and believes that getting bug bites out in the beauty of the world are better than being brainwashed by the media. His words. What's wrong with that? You say it like there's something wrong with being a nature enthusiast.

And I want to ask you, is nature enthusiast, are those your words or his words? His words. His words. And nature. Can I ask you this? What does he do for a living other than be enthusiastic about nature? Working at Publix grocery store. Okay.

All right. Oh, I'm glad you said that because they both worked at Publix, but that's not where they met. Okay. I'm interrupting. You go ahead. They originally meet in New York State, and then he leaves with his parents to go to Florida. She follows a few years later. So earlier this summer, they decide that they are going to leave all of their valuables behind and transform this van into a mini camper, travel up to see her brother graduate in New York State, and then cross the country on this excursion. Now, it's my understanding, Christy, Missouri, they knew each other way back,

way back home in Suffolk County. Then she goes, then they meet each other again years later. It's like meeting an old high school friend. And they fall in love. He moves to Florida. She comes down with him. Her father, her bio dad, also moves to Florida to be near her. The mom and her new husband stay in New York, is my understanding.

And then they travel back to New York for her little brother's high school graduation. And from there, they commence the road trip. Do I have it right so far? Spot on, Nancy. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Karen Stark, New York psychologist. You and I spent many an hour alone in the dark sitting side by side. But it's not as it sounds. It was in a studio watching live

trials. I mean, I can't even count the hours that we were together, uh, in the studio at Court TV. And then of course at HLN. Karen Stark, uh, you and I talked about this, about how, when I would try cases, the more heavier they got, um, the more I'd have to watch Little House on the Prairie. Okay. Before I would go into court, it started with what's just one hour. Then I'd have to start getting up an hour earlier to watch a double of Little House on the Prairie before I would go in and try, say, a spree murder or a torture murder or whatever I was going to try that day to steal myself.

Now, I'm leading up to something. Then it switched to watching Martha Stewart and her home. I think, was it Turkey Hill where she has that beautiful estate? Remember her show where you would see her out in the garden, and she'd be cooking and flower arranging and all? Yeah, it's a good thing. And that's the way this video is. It's what I'm working into. It looks like something off HGTV where they have people that live, they redo a

little house or a house on wheels or traveling campers and you're on the road. And it's so amazing and it's escapist, but this was their real life. Gabby, Gabrielle, Potato, and boyfriend, Laundry, go on this once-in-a-lifetime fantastic trip, and they video blog it. And the blog is engrossing. In one part, Karen, I mean, I watched the whole thing, which is rare for me. She's in her tent. She says, we're going to hang out at the campsite today. And it all looks so cozy and perfect. And you can see this beautiful natural scenery that most of us just dream of seeing one day in the background.

And then one day it's raining and she's holding the tent up like that because she says the rain's coming in and she's laughing. She's just so happy. And it makes you want to go along with them. She's holding the tent up like that because she says the rain's coming in and she's laughing. She's just so happy. And it makes you want to go along with them. She's got a very inviting personality. She's totally engrossing. And the whole trip, like you said, is watching like Little House on the Prairie. The only thing, that's what makes it so mysterious and upsetting to think about how beautiful it's coming across and she's totally disappeared. And Nancy, when you watch that, the only thing that you can find is that she talks about how precarious it is, that they like to climb and they really like to climb things that are difficult.

You know, that's so funny. Funny, odd. I was up super early this morning studying about Gabrielle Gabby and was discussing it with my friend Medea. And she said, well, what if they were posing on a cliff and Gabby fell off? And my response was, that could possibly have happened. But why would he get in the van and come all the way back home to Florida? Is it North Port or North Point, Christy Mazurik? It's North Port. Port.

Port. Nancy, to your point about the, you know, cliff climbing. Mm-hmm. the, you know, cliff climbing. On August 23rd, Gabby did post on Instagram that the pair were doing adventurous and risky hikes through some dangerous terrain during their stay. That was one of her last posts. You know, back to you, Karen, with that knowledge, you know, we took the twins on a cross-country trip last summer because of COVID, really.

We had to cancel everything we had planned, and we took off in an RV, and it was just us four, Dutch oven, on the grill, the whole thing, the whole way, all the way out to the Tetons, exactly where they were. And Christy Mazurka is right. The hiking was very precarious. As a matter of fact, there were several hikes that I canceled because I saw how difficult it was and did not want David and the twins up on hikes like that. But still, even though Christy Mazurka is correct, if that happened, why would he drive all the way back to North Port, Florida, which I think is Sarasota County, and not say a word to anybody if she fell off a cliff? Or even if they had an argument, Karen, and she's like, I'm not going anymore. This is it, and leaves. Number one, why would he leave her stranded if that's what happened? to come all the way back home and not

and not tell everybody what happened either this is really a nefarious character and he planned something all along or he went into shock something really did happen to her and he couldn't cope with it he didn't know how to handle it karen karen karen Karen, Karen. If he could drive across country and operate a van, having to stop, I guess, for gas or food, that's not in shock. To me, when you're in shock, you can't think straight. Not necessarily. He could get himself home. He could have panicked. And that's the only thing I could think of that would make sense out of it, unless

he actually had planned all along to do something. I don't believe that there was a plan all along to do something. I don't believe that. Guys, take a listen to Hour Cut 5. I love the band. So, we are right outside

Cappled Reef right now in a free dispersed camp spot. And we've been lucky so far at all the places we've stayed. But I'd say this is one of the best so far. Since we left New York, I've only set up my hammock once. And now we're all the way in Utah.

And luckily enough, I was able to set up my hammock in one of these trees. And we're kind of like in the desert. Very few trees. It just sounds so beautiful. And I also noticed, straight out to you, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina trial lawyer. Kathleen, I noticed throughout, he spoke very little.

It's mostly her shooting the video and speaking. He did occasionally speak. But I want to know what you make of it, Kathleen. Well, first, Nancy, I went and tried to do a deep dive on who this guy is. In all of his social media accounts, there's nothing prior to meeting this young lady. I knew nothing about him except what he is like with this young lady. I did. And it's concerning to me that we don't know much. And,

you know, I have a daughter about the same age and I know her boyfriend pretty well. And I went and deep dived on his social media account. I can't find anything about this young guy before he met this girl. How old is he? Well, from what we understand, he's not a suspect. He's not a person of interest. Reportedly, according to Gabby's family, he is not cooperating with police. As a matter of fact, we learned this morning that his parents, where he's bugged up in his parents' home, are not letting him speak to police. Of course, he is a 23-year-old young man. That's my understanding of his age, Kathleen. 23? Mm young man. That's my understanding of his age, Kathleen. 23? He looks a lot older on his pictures, but it seems to me that he would have high school

pictures and work pictures and family pictures out there, but I didn't find anything. And so I don't really know if the family knows much about him. Well, I would think that they do, Christy Mazur, because my understanding of how the two knew each other is they knew each other previously, and there's not much previously. She's only 22, so she had to know him in high school or college. She had to know him at that point. Then they reconnect and then fall in love, and that's my understanding. So the family had to know him if she knew him in her past. She's only 22. Correct. They did go to high school together and they knew Brian in passing.

In passing. Then when they reconnected, they kind of gave the duo their blessing. That's why her biological father moved down to Florida to be close to them. Right. When she and the boyfriend moved to Florida, where his parents are, her bio dad moves down there. Okay, got it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, take a listen to our Cut 12. This is Nicole Schmidt, who's Gabby's mother,

and Jim Schmidt, her stepfather, at their most recent press conference. When she left, what did she say? Like, bye, Mom. Did you say, I'm excited? What did she, what was it like? We hugged. We gave them some money to, you know, if they needed it, because they're kids, you know. They were excited about the trip.

They left on July 2nd from New York. What was the purpose of the trip? What did they want to do? Camping, hiking, seeing the country. When was she coming back? How long was the trip? The trip was supposed to end in October in Portland, Oregon. And what was the last conversation you had with her on video chat?

What did she say? I believe it was around the 23rd or the 24th. I can't recall. But she was having a great time. She said she was headed up to Wyoming. So the last time that we see her, they were FaceTiming to my understanding, was around, let's give it the benefit of the doubt, August 24. She was not reported missing by her family until September 11. Why? Well, you heard the mother

stating that she thought Gabby had gone into a remote area where there's no cell phone coverage. So she chalked it off. Now they were speaking every three days or so by FaceTime. And her bio dad was also speaking to her. So the first three days pass and she thinks, well, she's in a bad cell area. Then we get to the next three days, and she still does not hear from her. So you go August 24, you pass six days. You're now at August 30. Then she finds out, to my understanding, that the boyfriend comes back home on September 11 in the van with no Gabby. That is when she, not the boyfriend, reports Gabby missing. That is the time delay. I want you to take a listen to what we know about the van showing up.

Take a listen to our Cut 24. It's Evan Axelbank, our friends at Fox 13. Police found the van that they were potentially by the boyfriend's parents. They're now processing that. They've towed it away and are looking through it for any evidence they can find. Family in New York say that Gabrielle Poteto was on a cross-country trip leaving Long Island on July 2nd. They were headed to Oregon but stoppering numerous places along the way, documenting their journey in their van on YouTube. Family last spoke with her August 24th or 25th and last texted with her August 30th. She was reported missing this weekend, September 11th, and they may have reached as far as Grand Teton National Park. Straight out to Lisa M. Daddio, former Lieutenant in the Haven,

Senior Lecturer and the Director of the Center for Advanced Policing. Lisa, thank you for being with us. I made a wish list of what I think, as if they want our advice, what the cops need to be doing now. Number one, find her cell phone, examine her text, her content of those texts, because the mother says she texted later on around August 27 to 29, which furthers the timeline. But she doesn't know if those texts really came from Gabby. So they need to look at the lexicon, the vernacular, the jargon. Is that the way she spoke? Which I need to come back to you on, Karen Stark, in just a moment. If it's not her on those texts, that tells me this has been staged.

A random kidnapper or killer would not commit the kidnapper killing and then bother to text mom pretending to be her. They'd just rape her and kill her and throw her on the side of the road. That's how that would work. So this is not random if those texts were staged. Then I would go to that last text and triangulate the location because that is where your timeline starts of her disappearance. Then backtrack. When I say backtrack, I mean, look at every ATM, credit card use, get the nav data from the truck if it exists, and then get a search warrant for

both of their phones and all their social media. Okay, what would you do, Lisa? Nancy, you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I would would do the cell phones for both of them is really going to be paramount air um in addition to any you know once you get the locations from the cell phone and i know you're going to have dead areas right but yet you're going to know through maybe tolls or through where he got gas, utilizing a credit card or an ATM video that may exist, highway cameras, like really trying to track his timeline, which is just as critical. You got my number eight, Lisa. Determine the route via the text triangulation and go to tolls, red red light cams, and tag grabbers. People don't know what that is on the side of the road.

There's like a metal pole, maybe four feet, three feet, four feet tall, with a rectangular attachment across the top. It's a tag grabber. It grabs all the tag licenses going by and find out if in that video of those tolls and red lights and door cams and gas station video, when did she suddenly go missing from that passenger front seat and figure out where. Then I would start working the witnesses at restaurants, campsites, gas stations. Nancy, can I jump in here? Please do, jump. I was talking with a friend of mine this morning and he said, it's a 2015 Ford van. I had 2012, I'm glad you corrected me. Yeah, a lot of individuals will buy and pay cash or pay money right then for the van or put a down payment down so that if somebody doesn't make the payments, they know exactly where the vehicle is and they can tow it.

So I suspect that the police are going to look to see if there's some kind of device on that van to have its GPS coordinates. Now, I've got 2012, and I don't know if they had NAV in a Ford van at that time, but in 2015, I think that they did, if that's the date you're giving me. Now, we know she checked out of a Salt Lake City hotel, and that was on August the 25th, as I recall, the last day she was seen. She also spoke to her mother on that date. That's where everything goes murky. We know she was going to a precarious hiking area, but that's where it all ends. Back to what Evan Axelbank at Fox 13 was reporting in our Cut 24. Would you play that again, please, Jackie? Police found the van that they were traveling here at the home that is owned potentially by the boyfriend's parents. They're now processing that.

They've towed it away and are looking through it for any evidence they can find. Family in New York say that Gabrielle Poteto was on a cross-country trip leaving Long Island on July 2nd. They were headed to Oregon but stoppering numerous places along the way, documenting their journey in their van on YouTube. Family last spoke with her August 24th or 25th, and last texted with her August 30th. She was reported missing this weekend, September 11th, and they may have reached as far as Grand Teton National Park. That August 30 day gives me a little bit more

of an explanation about why the parents waited till September 11 to report her. If they think they got a text on August 30 and they spoke every three days, the first three days passed and mom thought she is in a bad cell. The second three days, now we're at about September 6th or 7th. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I want to talk about jargon. Karen Stark, a New York psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. You can find her at Karen Syke or Facebook Karen Stark, Karen with a C. Karen, I know your style of texting and you know my style of texting and they're radically different. I'm sure if I wrote you a full sentence or paragraph with all the caps and the punctuation, you would know it was not for me. If I didn't speak in abbreviations or sometimes just one letter for the word, you would know something was very, very wrong. So why does the mother wonder, are these texts from my

daughter? I'm glad you brought that up Nancy, because that's what's going around in my head is what did the mother realize? What did she see that makes her think this might not have been her child? And just like you said, we all think just like we speak differently. And I'm wondering what she picked up on. There must have been something where she went and added that part, that she's not sure that that was actually her daughter. Jump in, Lisa, Daddy. What do you think about speculation that texts were not really from Gabby? Yeah, I mean, I think it's tough.

That was one of the things when, you know, I had been hearing about this case and kind of what mom has been saying. And, you know, I'd be really curious as to why she made that statement as why she's not sure it was her own daughter. So a mom's intuition is going to be like there was something there that was nagging at her that probably made her believe in that intuition that so many of us have when it's involving our children that something just isn't right um and and then following through on that and that's where the whole linguistics and everything is going to really come into play nancy like you have mentioned and you know trying to

figure that out um and back to the whole triangulation and the electronic and digital data from the cell phones is just going to be so critical. where she is and just having this little nagging feeling inside of you that something just isn't right. Yeah, there have been a lot of questions about why she was not reported until September 11, but the mom seems to have an explanation for that. Guys, take a listen again. This is Hour Cut 11. This is the mother, Nicole Schmidt, and the stepfather, Jim Schmidt. How often did you talk to her on the phone before she disappeared? Frequently. Every day? At least three times a week. We would FaceTime, call, text frequently.

She kept me updated on her school trip. Did it start to dwindle? Did her communication start to fade? No, not until I received a text on the 30th. That was the last communication I had. Any more doubts about that text? I can't comment on that 30th. That was the last communication I had. Do you have doubts about that text? I can't comment on that. Did you hear that? Straight up to you, Lisa Daddio, former police lieutenant,

when the mom is asked, and this is at a public press conference, and you know law enforcement is watching. You've got Suffolk County on it. You've got Sarasota County, and you've got the FBI watching. When she was asked, do you have doubts? If that was Gabby texting you, she said, I can't comment. That tells me she did have doubts. Right.

And again, telling, right? It's like, oh, my goodness. And the guilt that she must feel that here for 12 days or so, there had been nothing from her daughter except for that text message on the 30th that she's now questioning. And yet, don't, for whatever reason, report her missing for 12 days. Guys, take a listen to more from Nicole Schmidt, the mom, and Jim Schmidt, the stepdad. The first couple of days when I wasn't getting responses, I believe she was in a place with no service. It was like day eight and nine

that I really became concerned. I figured she couldn't be off the grid for that long. Was she sending you text messages after the call? Between her, I guess, call? Yes, we had text-only conversations up to the 27th, and I only received a text from her on the 30th, which I had not responded to. It was just a text to me.

What was that one on the 30th? I can't comment on that. Why can't she comment on what the text said on August 30? Christy, Missouri, do you have any inside information on that? The police sources I'm talking to are mom, Nancy. So it's something very telling that raised a concern to the mother. They did start calling Gabby's phone, and those phone calls were immediately going to voicemail after that text. And Lisa Dario, doesn't that mean something specific when it goes straight to voicemail? Yeah, absolutely it does. You know, the phone obviously is off, you know, possibly even

no cell service may do that as well. But not for that prolonged period of time. I would be comparing the boyfriend's texts and his cell phone service to hers right now and get a search warrant for all of their iCloud, their phone, you name it. Everything you can get, including their social media. Guys, take a listen one more time to what the mother, Nicole Schmidt, and the stepfather, Jim Schmidt, are saying. Is it possible that she would just choose not to be in contact for a while and just be enjoying the you know i know that i believe a mother's instinct is the most powerful do you think something bad has happened to her i don't know i believe she's gonna come home

uh to you kathleen murphy i know you've heard this a million times in your practice. She just wanted alone time. B.S. Yeah. The mother says she would never do that. She didn't want alone time. A mother knows, Nancy. And I think that the fact that the mother hasn't made a comment about that last text is concerning that maybe she reached out to her mother with some news or some information that was, and the mother was trying to follow up on it. And you know your child, whether your child is a thousand miles away or in front of your face, you know when something's going on.

Nicole Schmidt says she thinks her daughter is in danger. Listen. Why do you believe she's in danger. Listen. Why do you believe she's in danger? I don't know if I believe she's in danger for particular reasons. I just believe she's in danger because she's not in touch with us. She could be alone somewhere. She could be stranded

somewhere in the wilderness. And she needs help. And I hope that, we're not out there, but I hope that everybody's looking for her. I hope that the hikers and the rangers and the campers and everybody has her face and they're looking for her actively. I want you to hear how Nicole and Jim Schmidt close that press conference. Listen.

I just want to reiterate that we're looking for her and only her. We're not looking for the van. We're not looking for the two of them. We're looking for her and only her. We're not looking for the van. We're not looking for the two of them. We're looking for just her. We need to find her and bring her home. And Nicole, if she is watching this, I don't know if it's, you know, is there anything you would like to say directly to her?

Cammy, we just want you to come home. Call us. Let us know you're okay. We just, come home. Please. We miss you. And you can hear the stepdad stepping in. Sounds like the mother was crying at that juncture. This, as we learned just this morning, that the parents of the fiancé are refusing to let cops speak to him about her disappearance.

The Ford Transit has been seized and has been taken away for a forensics examination. And the cops will say only that, quote, the circumstances are odd. I mean, you know, Kathleen Murphy, let me go to you and then Karen Stark. If David went missing, my husband David, I would be lying on the front steps to the police department, screaming for action. I would not be hiding in my parents' house, refusing to speak to cops. I mean, maybe his parents were trying to protect him. Maybe they think, oh, he'll become a suspect. But by not speaking and telling what he believes happened to Gabby, it's just making him look bad. It's making him look real bad. It's making him look guilty.

It's making him look like he has something to hide. And I would suggest to you that if they've known each other for two years plus, that the parents know each other. I'd be calling that mother. I'd be calling that mother. I'd be calling that father. I'd be putting a lot of pressure on their mutual friends. Find out where the heck my child is. Find out what that happened. And the fact that he is not even talking to them triples my concern.

Karen Stark, New York psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan today. Weigh in. Again, police say he's not a suspect or a person of interest, but I can tell you that van has been seized out of his parents' driveway. He has yet to tell cops that we know of what happened to Gabby, and he has hired a lawyer. It's just a bad look, even if he's not a suspect. Yeah, something seems very, very wrong, Nancy.

And you wonder, like, if it were me, I would be there with those parents banging on their door, as you said, and trying to figure out why is he not talking? What's going on that they're protecting him? Something really doesn't make sense here. And he knows, I really think he knows something that we're not knowing at this point. Well, yes, he does know whether she stormed off after an argument, whether he got mad and left her at a hotel, whether he left her on the side of the road, whether she fell off a cliff. He has the answers. She's last seen by other people and she checks out of that Salt Lake City hotel that was on August 24, 25. She is missing. The parents say point blank, we have not talked with the fiance.

We would love to talk to him. So why? And there are photos I'm looking at of the dad out cutting the grass, not letting anyone speak to the son. Why? If you have information about the whereabouts of Gabrielle Potato, Gabby Potato, number 800-220-8477. There's a GoFundMe. Help us find Gabby. Repeat 800-220-8477. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.