Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Van-Life Girl Gabby: Clues Left Behind

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

The search continues for Gabby Petito. The 22-year-old and her boyfriend, Brian Laundrie, were traveling on a cross-country road trip when Gabby disappeared. Laundrie reportedly returned to his Florida home in the converted camper van the couple had been traveling in, but without Petito. Laundrie has since refused to speak to anyone out his parents and a lawyer about what might have happened to her. Laundrie's sister Cassie said in an interview with Good Morning America that she wished she knew more, Cassie Laundrie says that she has not been able to speak to her brother, but did not specify why. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - Criminal Defense Attorney (Jacksonville), Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: "Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills) Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", Featured on "The Piketon Massacre: Return to Pike County" on iHeartRadio Sheryl McCollum - Forensic Expert & Cold Case Investigative Research Institute Founder, ColdCaseCrimes.org Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Twitter: @nicolepartin Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Tick, tick, tick. The clock is ticking down and still no sign of 22-year-old van life girl Gabby Petito. This is we learn in the last hours that Gabby Petito's family have been instructed by police not to speak openly about Gabby's relationship with boyfriend Brian Laundrie. Why? There's so much happening in the case right now. Let me tell you right off the bat, tip line 1-800-CALL-FBI. 1-800-225-5324. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

First of all, take a listen to our friends at KSL TV. While authorities are keeping details of their search for 22-year-old Gabby Petito close to the vest. I can't give you any specifics on areas of interest. They're hoping accounts like Shannon Baker's. We drove through Tetons. The only stop we made was at Jenny Lake. We'll narrow down the search in the park's 310,000 acres. It had the black ladder on the back and the two black roof racks on top,

two bars. And we made the comment that would be the perfect little camper van to go around in. Baker says it was 5 p.m. on August 25th when she and her husband, Russell, spotted Petito's van in the Jenny Lake parking area. My husband looked at it and goes, well, that's the same vehicle they used on American Pickers. Baker says they didn't think much of the van until Sunday. And I said, oh my God, that's the same van we saw. The Bakers didn't get a picture, but they're certain they saw the van. And so is Petito's family. And they were very detailed about the description. So I do're certain they saw the van and so is Petito's family and they

were very detailed about their description so I do believe that they saw the van so the van was spotted in the Tetons but they didn't see Gabby and apparently didn't see boyfriend Brian Laundrie this among many updates happening right now let's break it down together joining me an all-star panel to make sense of it all, Dale Carson, criminal defense attorney. Joining me out of Jacksonville, former FBI and cop, author of Arrest Proof for Yourself, Dr. Bethany Marshall. We're now psychoanalysts joining us out of Beverly Hills. She is at drbethanymarshall.com, star of a new Netflix show, Bling Empire. Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star of a new series on iHeart, The Piketon Massacre, Return to Pike County. The founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCollum.

You can find her at coldcasecrimes.org. She also a forensic expert. And CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Nicole Parton. Guys, so much is happening right now. Nicole Parton, what's the very latest? Nancy, the very latest, Gabby's family putting out a desperate message to Brian, specifically his parents, a desperate message, almost begging them to come forward with any information. Saying things like, as a parent, please do the right thing. Tell us at least the last time that he saw her, the last place that he saw her. Desperate for any answers, begging Brian and his parents

to come forward and speak. As a matter of fact, you're absolutely correct, Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com. Take a listen to Hour Cut 64. This is Jeff Petura at ABC7. Gabby Petito's father was filled with emotion today as he begged Brian Laundrie to come forward with answers yet again and he's not the only one demanding answers if it was my daughter that was missing I can't think of anybody that would stop me from going in that house grabbing that kid and finding out information Jason Sternquist and his family got out sharpies and poster boards. They began writing and pleading for Laundrie to speak up. Can you imagine just your daughters

dating some guy, they go on a road trip and then that's it? Sternquist says he's trying to help, not only because he lives near Laundrie. First thing you think of is, oh my god, it's my backyard. But because he has three daughters of his own. Bring peace to this woman's family. Well, one of the family members did speak out. I'm talking about the Laundrie family while the boyfriend, Brian Laundrie, is holed up in his parents' home. Neither he nor parents speaking. Hour Cut 78, this is ABC7. You hear his sister speaking. Hour cut 78. This is ABC 7.

You hear his sister speaking. Listen. She has not been seen in 22 days now. And her fiance, Brian, is not talking to police about it. But her boyfriend's sister now says she hopes this whole thing is just a misunderstanding. Watch. Obviously, me and my family want Gabby to be found safe. She's like a sister and my children

love her and all i want is for her to come home safe and sound and this to be just a big misunderstanding he always does the right thing like in the body cam he's he's cooperates with the police and he he's a wonderful uncle he's always been there when I need him. He's, I mean, he's been there every time Gabby's needed him. Really? Because on that body cam footage, Gabby Petito shows cops, she gesticulates. If you watch the entire thing where she says boyfriend Brian Laundrie grabbed her by the chin and shook her. And you see him later on patting his pocket going, yeah, I got the keys right here. And that coincides with her saying, I was trying to get back in the

van. He locked me out. It's her van, number one. And he locked her out in some kind of a power play out in the middle of nowhere in the desert for Pete's sake. Of course she got upset. So I don't know if that's doing the right thing. Take a listen to more of the sister. This is on GMA. Laundrie's sister Cassie says even she hasn't spoken to her brother since he returned to his home in Florida from his and Gabby's cross-country trip without Gabby. I haven't been able to talk to him. I wish I could talk to him. I've cooperated every way that I can. I wish I had information where I would give more. This is all I have is I gave to the police. That's it. He's not even speaking to his sister. Let's bring in the panel again. Of course, as I mentioned, Nicole Parton joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Straight out to Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of Cold Case Research Institute. And we have worked together for many, many years in the trenches investigating cases, even up until this very day. Cheryl McCollum, that's one heck of a misunderstanding. I could see you right now in court with a big old poster that says, obviously, obviously y'all want her found. Here's what's obvious. You ain't looking for her. You're not calling her phone.

You're not texting her. You're not frantic. You are not petrified that something's happened to her. You're at home chilling in Florida going, well, hope she turns up. Hope it's a misunderstanding. She's like a sister, like a sister to who? She ain't like a sister to you. Otherwise you would be in the Moab looking for her. You would be texting her. Please respond. Where are you? You would be on find my iPhone. You would be texting her. Please respond. Where are you? You would be on Find My iPhone. You would be posted all over social media. Please help us find her. You ain't doing none of that.

And speaking of Find My iPhone, you know this, Cheryl, you know, when the twins, my children went down to play their instruments at Disney with their school, and then they were allowed to kind of wander around Disney. You know, I was doing a backflip over that. So, of course, after surreptitiously following them down, I had on the Find My iPhone and the Life 360. And it shows you everywhere they're walking. So, who's doing that? Where is Gabby's cell phone? Take a listen to our cut 67. This is the North Port police presser. Have you guys learned anything from the van or from the phone at all?

Right now, we're still analyzing all that data, which takes time to forensically analyze all that. Is the body cam video out of the lab? Is that offering any sort of insight into what potentially happened? Are you using that as part of your investigation? We look at everything that's coming in. As far as that having to do anything with the disappearance, we don't know. I mean, yes, they had a disturbance. Yes, it was captured on body camera, their interaction with law enforcement. But beyond that, you know, I don't know what it has to do with the disappearance.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can we talk about her cell phone? Justice Scott Morgan, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University. You hear Cheryl McCollum bring up, in my mind, the most obvious way to track her since Laundrie's not speaking. I mean, he's the one that was with her. He comes back with a van, but no Gabby. He can't even tell us where he left her. I mean, best case scenario, they got, when you don't know a horse, look at the track record. She was afraid he'd leave her. Why did she think that? She was locked out of the van. As Cheryl McCollum earlier pointed out to me, he patted his pocket when I got

the keys. What kind of power play is that to lock your girlfriend out of her own van in the middle of the desert for Pete's sake? So in my mind, that's a track record of locking her out and she's afraid he's going to leave her. Is that what happened? In my mind, that's the best possibility that he just got mad and left her somewhere. Why can't they find the phone or have they found it? I don't know if they found it or not, Nancy, but what I do know is that he has had possession of this van for a protracted period of time without it being in the possession of the police. And he has had a sufficient amount of time to disrupt or get rid of any kind of evidence that could point to her whereabouts or what has occurred with her. I think that it's significant, though, that the police have not moved forward relative to dragging him out of that house based on evidence that they may have recovered in that van.

You would think because now we're under a real time crunch, you would think that they would look for anything to develop probable cause to develop a warrant to drag him out. But that has not occurred. So it leaves me wondering, what did he do with this van? What did he do with the phone in the meantime, all of these days that have ticked off the clock? Let's just figure it out, Cheryl McCollum. Let's talk about triangulation of a cell phone. And I have to circle back to Dale Carson, Dr. Bethany on this. Just got started his comments on who had the cell phone last.

I can tell you this. Gabby's mother tells me point blank the last text she received ostensibly from Gabby. It's not from Gabby. And I'll tell you why. Number one, it was not her vernacular, her speech. I mean, Cheryl, you'd pass out if I sent you a text. It was two paragraphs long with perfect punctuation and complete sentences. That's not going to happen.

Okay. So the people have a way of expressing themselves via speech, via writing with a writing pen or on their computer or laptop versus text. You have a unique style of writing on text. Number one, it wasn't her style. And number two, and even more telling, it said no cell service in Yosemite. They weren't even near Yosemite. I took my twins to Yosemite about four years ago and then recently to the Tetons and Yellowstone. They're nowhere near each other. That was not even part of the plan to go to Yosemite. So, and the timing,

that was on about August 29-ish. Well, we know that Brian Laundrie's back home parked in his parents' driveway on September 1. There is no way they could have gotten from Yosemite or Yellowstone all the way back home in 36 hours. That's not going to happen. So, A, wrong national park mentioned in the fake text, and B, physically impossible. Right. And it also gets rid of, well, did they just separate voluntarily? Did she tell him to go back home while she stayed somewhere with friends? We know that because he sent a bogus check. He did that. But let me tell you something he ain't thinking about. He ain't

thinking about her Apple Watch. That watch has its own GPS. That watch can also track if it's away from the phone. So when people do their jogging, they can track that data the same way your cell phone can do it. So I think the FBI has owned some things that he is not aware they can do. Let's talk about that. The Apple Watch versus a Fitbit. Jump in, Cheryl. That Apple Watch can not only track your activity, it can check your heart rate, and it has like a barometric allometer that can tell if you're, you know, increasing your altitude or you're decreasing your elevation. So that watch is going to have a ton of information for law enforcement.

Jump in, Joe Scott. Well, my thought is, is that the biometric issue is going to be key relative to what's going on with her from a physiological standpoint. And of course, you know, we don't want to think about worst case scenarios, but look, we're right in the middle of it right now. And tracking her and what's going on with her as in her person is very significant. When we start to look at this timeline, Nancy, how are they going to be able to track her down? And what was going on with her physiologically at that particular moment in time? And can can they triangulate this this phone or this wristwatch back to her specific location where she was last found? Again, I go back to this idea that Laundrie has had a sufficient amount of time.

I know, to clean out the van. I'm trying to talk to you about tracking her on her iPhone or her Apple Watch. That's what we're talking about. Now, Cheryl McCollum, how is it done? So basically, this watch can work whether you have cellular or Wi-Fi. So if she's connected even at a cafe or somewhere, it can start tracking if she's on a hike. So all of a sudden, that watch is going to be able to show if she goes 80 feet in a relatively short period of time, up or down. So let's say she fell or she was pushed. That watch could possibly indicate that for us.

It also could track your heart rate. So it may show if the heart rate has stopped, for example. There's a lot of information here. Even if she does not have her phone near her, she can send and receive text messages. So again, if that has stopped as of August 25th, she hasn't bought anything off Apple Pay off that watch. She hasn't taken a photograph. She has not done a voice memo. All of these things are going to show what did occur before August 25th, and more importantly, what's occurred after.

It's not just her iPhone that we're talking about. It's the Apple Watch as well. Now, I've asked Joe Scott and Cheryl McCollum to explain how it's done. Both of them go off on their own individual tangents. This is how it's done. You know when you're going down the street and you pass a cell tower? Whether you're on a phone call or not, if your phone is on, you can see your bars go up and down.

When you go by a cell tower, your phone, unbeknownst to you, pings off that cell tower. And then you go 35 miles and you ping off another cell tower and another and another. Wherever you're getting a connection, your phone is pinging, identifying is the only way I can say it, off that cell tower. It's like, let me think of a different way to say it. When you use a key card to get into your office, you hold it up and you go in. It's just like that. When you pass a cell tower, your phone identifies and pings off the cell tower. So what I think they would be doing is trying to figure out where her cell phone last pinged.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Now, Joe Scott Morgan, I know three strikes and I'm out. I'm going to try one more time. Okay. With her phone. Once it's cut off, it's not going to ping anymore. Could you, in layperson talk, civilian talk, explain the process of triangulation? Well, the triangulation, what you're talking about are three separate phone towers where you can ping in on a specific location. So you have three separate locations where this information, this data is coming back to, to give you one central location.

That was brilliant. Okay. Dale Carson, I hear you jumping in. High profile lawyer joining me out of Jacksonville, former FBI. And I mean, I don't know about you, but when I find out the FBI is on my case, I stop in my tracks. The FBI is on this case. That tells me a lot. Dale Carson, former FBI, what does it tell you? The FBI are looking for Gabby. They're investigating as well. Well, they bring a lot of technical sophistication to the problem that other departments simply don't have access to. That involves SA and other people who can help locate

and have the analytical ability to look at things like triangulation and other things. Stop right there. Stop right there. Because I think you're absolutely right. But I want to explain what you're saying. Analytical ability. Anybody on the panel that knows what we're talking about, jump in if you can explain it, because I don't explain this as well as you guys might be able to. What we're saying is analytical ability to make sense of all the scientific data about

triangulation, about finding your iPhone, finding your Apple Watch. I mean, have you ever looked at a coding? My children show me their coding. I don't know. It's crazy. It's like mumbo jumbo. And unless you know how to analyze this, you're up the creek without a paddle. So he's right.

Dale Carson is right. Former FBI. The FBI have people that do nothing but analyze this data. Okay, go ahead. Oh, the analysis of that data will help locate things like where she last predictably was. And those things are critical because you only have a finite amount of resources to devote to doing ground searches, which has to be done. I mean, there's little question that she was dropped off or ran off someplace. And the result is she's out there by herself somewhere.

It's been 22 days. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to circle back with you, Joe Scott, about the possibility of surviving in the wilderness for 22 days. Now, she's called Van Life Girl for a reason. She's not called a hardcore camper girl or wilderness survival girl or extreme wilderness girl. She's called van life girl. There's a big difference in crossing the country in a van and living in the wilderness. It's very hard to live and survive in the wilderness for this long. I want to bring in our expert joining me out of LA, Dr. Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst. Bethany, I've

got so much to ask you about, but let me just say as a big umbrella for all of us, Brian Laundrie has not been named as a suspect in her disappearance. He has been named as a person of interest. Dr. Bethany, two things just jump out at me. Number one, the power play of locking her out of the car. It's not like me locking David out of the car, the minivan until he says, I love you more than anything. And then I laugh and let him in. Okay. It's not that. You're out in the desert in extreme temperatures, very, very rugged terrain. I just took the children out to hear the Tetons and Yellowstone. It's tough. It's tough. And we were not on the most difficult trails at all. That, the power play of, I've got the key right here in my pocket. It's her van.

What do you mean you've got the key in your pocket? And telling her to calm down. Also, the sister. The sister appearing, emerging, suddenly to say basically, I don't know anything. He hasn't even talked to his own sister. Okay, you take it in your order that you ask Dr. Bethany. Okay, well, the first thing that stands out is that he doesn't have a cell phone. Not one person on the face of this planet, unless they're in a developing country, does not have a cell phone.

She has all the resources. She has the van. She has the watch. She has the cell phone. Is she also the only one supporting this trip that's one form of power you see in a relationship why do you think he doesn't have a cell phone oh no i was wondering i think that's a really important thing to explore i mean i don't know why you would say he doesn't have a cell phone let's go with the facts that we do know we do know he locked her out of the car out of the van and we do know the we do know he locked her out of the car, out of the van. And we do know the sister

doesn't know anything because he's not talking to her and he's hiding out in his parents' house. Those are the things we know. Let's talk about that. Nancy, can I jump in? Oh, dear Lord. Matt, if you didn't go ahead. Well, the one thing Gabby asked the police officer is to make sure he had a charger. And he said on the body cam, yeah, I found one. I had to crawl around, but I found one. What the hell do you need a charger for if you ain't got a cell phone? Okay. Case solved.

He had a cell phone. So another thing, we can track his movements on his cell phone as well, but that wouldn't tell us where her phone was ultimately cut off or where it is right now. Okay. Back to you, Bethany. Well, one of the things he says to the officers is that he encourages them to take some time apart. And I think that's interesting because that's an anger management maneuver. It tells me that he's taken some anger management classes.

One of the first things we teach men, especially in anger management, is if there's a fight, you give the other person permission to walk away or you walk away. Because normally when couples are fighting, one person or the other, if they walk away, the perpetrator or the abuser becomes frantic. Don't leave me. You're going to leave me. You're going to betray me. They become very jealous and insecure. So they stop the victim from leaving. So this is the first thing he brings up to these two officers. So it tells me he's trying to be a good guy. The second thing is when I'm watching these two officers kind of debate back and forth about the various stories about why he hit the curb. He says she grabbed the wheel. She says, no, she hit the arm.

This is how couples therapy sessions sound when there's domestic violence involved. You can never get a straight story. It's very confusing. You spend so much time trying to work out the details of who did what that it's hard to get to add down to the actual psychodynamics of the relationship. So I'm hearing like a domestic abuse situation already just in what the officers are talking about. Okay, can I cut the chase right here? What do you think about the power play of him locking her out of the van. That's where all the food is. That's where her stuff is.

That's her only way home. What does that mean? That's my original question to you. It's not the first time he's done this. He's doing it in a wilderness area where she has no place to get to safety. He has all the resources. I think it's a power play in the relationship. And it tells me that he relates to her on the basis of power, not on the basis of affection.

That there's a power dynamic in this relationship that probably runs consistently through all of their interactions. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Sharon McCullough, let me ask you a question. Why are you talking about Gabby Petito's Apple Watch? Do you believe she had an Apple Watch? Yeah, in several of the pictures, she's wearing it. So she was either wearing it that day or it's in the van. But again, it will yield some information.

You know, I've looked at a lot of them and in some of them she's got it on and some of them she doesn't. But even if she didn't have it on, it would still reveal information about where the van was, if it was in the van. Or she may have it on right now, for all I know. And to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, what do you make of the fact that the sister, according to her, also has not spoken with the boyfriend, Brian Laundrie? You're talking about her sister, Kelly's sister. No, I'm talking about Brian Laundrie's sister

appeared this morning on national TV and said, this is all just a big misunderstanding. I hope it is. And two, that even she has not spoken to her brother. Her brother, Brian Laundrie, has also not even talked to his own sister about what happened to Gabby. How do you not talk to your own sister about what happened to Gabby. of Brian Long's family seems to be to cover up the mistakes of their members. And I'm guessing that this is not the first time this has happened. I'm guessing that they have a long history of accommodating to Brian, of covering up for him.

And, you know, when you have a family member that's a black sheep that does things that are wrong or criminal or abusive, what happens in certain families is they start to cover up for that family member. They start to deny it. They start to say, oh, he's really a good guy. He would never do something like that. And the denial and the accommodation becomes so thick and so powerful that with each new misdeed, they rationalize it even more.

So I think that his sister is just rationalizing it. And she says Gabby is like a sister to her. You know what? If Gabby was like a sister to her, she would be talking to every news outlet. She would be searching for her sister-in-law to be. She doesn't seem to be. She seems to be distancing herself in every explanation to ABC. Guys, we are now learning that according to police, they have a new wrinkle, a new wrinkle in the search for Gabby. Take a listen to our cut 72. We have communication going back and forth with Grand County Sheriff's Office.

We provided them with whatever information we could. They don't have any suspect information right now, so you would have to refer that to them. But they told us that they're looking at everything at this point. Hearing the presser by the North Port Police in Florida, he's referring to the double homicide of two young women, outdoor enthusiast campers with a very odd connection to Gabby Petito. Victim Kylan Schulte, just 24, and Crystal Turner, both found dead at a Utah campsite. And here are some similarities that I have analyzed. They are all three thin, fair females traveling without a male companion. Physical appearance very similar. Same age, Shilty, 24, Gabby, 22. The time link, the double murder of these two female campers

is just a few days after Gabby Petito has the fight with Brian Laundrie and a very serious connection. One of the victims worked at the Moonflower Co-op where Gabby had the fight, the argument with Brian Laundrie. Shortly after that, the two of them go camping. Their bodies were found partially undressed August 12. We don't know what day they were murdered in the woods. Gabby goes missing. Excuse me, the fight Gabby had was August 12. Their bodies were found six days later, August 18. To Dale Carson, a veteran trial lawyer joining me out of Jacksonville and former fed with the FBI, what do you think about the similarities? Well, we know from serial killers that they frequent certain areas picking up potential victims. And it's simple to imagine that Gabby being upset could become a target for one of these individuals who has absolutely no connection to the rest of us in the sense that he's a sociopath.

And he would come up and just say, hey, let me help you. And that's how Bundy, a notorious serial killer, approached victims and was very successful, as we know. Well, you know what? That's what Israel Keyes did, who killed the Alaskan barista, Samantha Koenig, would go to campsites, RV sites, and try to find people. But you're right. And I want to point out that both of those victims, Kylan Schulte and Crystal Turner,

had told their friends when they were camping out there was a creepy man bothering them. And they actually moved campsites and then were found dead. And they said a creepy guy's bothering us. If we turn up dead, he did it. And I also want to point out that the cops had issued a warning just days before that about a guy, I think, had abandoned his campsite. There were 30 weapons found there, including knives, hatchets, crossbow, and several swords. Now, Cheryl McCollum, is Gabby a victim of the killer of these two young women? I mean, one of them worked at Moonflower Co-op, and that's where Gabby had her argument, or the argument started anyway, with Brian Laundrie.

And then within days, they're dead and she's missing. That's quite a connection. Do I think it's the same person? Probably not, because there's so many other indicators. It could be something very, very different. But that's quite a coincidence, Cheryl. It is a coincidence that law enforcement would have to look at. But again, her fiance returned home without her. Yes. That's like a glaring clue right there. And the fact that he was there, Joe Scott Morgan, we can place him there at September 1. And the mother didn't report her missing until September 11 when she realized what was happening.

Joe Scott. Yeah. Yeah. And you wonder how these timelines marry up. One interesting thing, though, is that when these two were having the argument, I'm referring to Gabby and Laundrie. You remember the police told them that they were going to have to separate? Yeah. Well, one of the interesting things is that allegedly one of the things that I've come across is that he was directed to go to a hotel or a motel there in

Moab. Yeah. Well, the name of the motel or this area is actually not a motel. It's a sea cave and family crisis center. That's two blocks away from the Moonflower. Will you repeat that again, please? Sure. Sure. Yeah. He was directed to go and spend the night away from her. Remember, Dr. Bethany was mentioned this just a moment ago. The location he was sent to was not actually a motel. It was actually a family crisis center. And it's referred to. I'm looking at the map right now. It's a Seek Haven Family Crisis Center. It's two blocks away from the Moonflower Community Cooperative.

Take a listen, guys. Speaking of any potential connection between the two dead women to our cut 77 this is sifan kim abc7 police are analyzing something found in the couple's van meanwhile police in utah are looking into whether petito's disappearance has anything to do with the double murder of newlyweds crystal turner and kylan schulte their bodies were found partially undressed and riddled with bullets on a mountain trail nearby on August 18th. Schulte worked at the same grocery store where Petito and Laundrie got into their argument. You know, that's quite a coincidence that I can't ignore, but the panel is right. The overarching circumstance is that the boyfriend comes home with the van and without Gabby. Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

We know that a grid search is planned in the Grand Tetons. I know that the stepfather, Mr. Schmidt, is there, but it hasn't started yet. Do you think it's because, Nicole, that they, I mean, the Grand Tetons are thousands and thousands and thousands of acres, and they don't really know where to start? Absolutely. And I think that they are hoping and maybe trying to pressure Ryan or his family into saying something so that they can at least narrow down the search. At this point, they have no idea where to start.

They're simply going on a fake time phone call from around August 21 that Gabby had with her family where they believe that she was in that area at the time. But that could be anywhere. As you say, you've been there. You understand the terrain. So if they could get any word from Brian or his family, they could at least begin a search and know where to start. Cheryl McCollum, what do you believe that law enforcement is doing right now and what should

they be doing? They are re-interviewing the witness that saw him push her. They are combing that van to see where her jewelry is, where her clothes are. They're even looking to see when did food become just for a single person, like if he stopped at Starbucks or something, there's only one cup instead of two. They are combing that phone. When did he stop calling her? When did he stop text messaging her? They are going back over that video of the two of them that last over an hour. They're getting somebody to watch his body language.

They're going over his statements, exactly what he says, that he's laughing and jovial with law enforcement while she can't stop crying. What did they miss? They're going to track their whereabouts. If there's any video, if there's any video if there's any receipts when did they leave what campsite who might have seen him by himself and exactly when did that start they're going to track his you know home path every single time he stopped for gasoline did he use her card Did he use his own debit card?

Did he throw anything away? They're going to search all of that, all the way back to Florida, how fast he got back there. They're also going to search the text messages and phone calls between his family. Because keep in mind, Gabby's mama reached out to his mama. She wouldn't return her call. She wouldn't answer the call at all. So all of this is very telling that his family knew long before Gabby's family knew. Joe Scott, what do you believe?

The cops, the FBI, the analytics, what are they doing right now? And what do you think they should be doing? I think it was kind of telling Nancy, I think it was a couple of days ago that the U.S. Park Service said that they've become involved in this investigation, which I think is a daylight and a dollar short at this point. But with that said, you know, her last known phone call that they received, that the family received was in Grand Teton. That's where it allegedly originated from. I want to know what type of information they have at that main southern gate, which is where they would have entered Grand Teton. Is there any kind of videography?

Is there any kind of timestamp where they're rolling through the gate where you have to pay to get into this place? And who was in the van? Is there videography of the faces of the individuals as they're entering? You know, all of these state parks, particularly this time of year, we're talking August 25th was when that phone call was made. These things are backed up with people trying to get into these places to tour around before the kids go back to school. I want to know, were they actually physically there? What kind of information do they have relative to this?

And you're right. Our panel is right. Due to the vastness of this place, they're seeking information because it is a needle in a haystack. Just give us a crumb of information so that we can narrow the search down within the Teton region. I don't understand why the grid search hasn't started as of yet. To Dale Carson, what do you believe is happening right now at FBI headquarters and

what should be happening? Well, you know, HIDA, which is the high intensity drone enforcement people, have equipment called NSA light that allows them to look at text messages throughout the country. So the technology that is really available that we're not really privy to very much, including things like the Stingray, which emulates cell phone towers, is used by the government constantly. So they can look backtracking to the stored data to see these things if there's enough pressure politically to do this. And I suspect that's where they're headed. And that's what's delaying all of this, because that takes a few minutes. I would say a little bit more than a few.

Yeah, hold on. I want to follow up on Stingray. It follows a little more than a few minutes. How long, Dale Carson, I mean, you've been there. You're the former FBI agent. How long would it take realistically to do that? Several days at least. And you have to break through a couple of protective walls between the various agencies in order to make that happen. And as you probably know, there's a deep storage facility in Arizona that stores all of this data. And so getting to that really requires basically a power play by one of the agencies. And hopefully they can do that.

And that involves satellite imagery and other things that can help locate where she might be. Dr. Bethany, I've been trying to find out, and everyone I ask says we can't talk about that. There are reports that Brian Laundrie flew home during the road trip and then flew back out to where Gabby was, and that items have been moved. Her items have been moved out of their home to be put in storage. I can't get the truth of it. But if that is true, what does it mean? I think that it's great that everybody's talking about the search for Gabby, what's happening in the parks, what was the last peeing, what was happening in terms of their

communication with family members. But I'm wondering what's happening in the Laundrie family, in Brian Laundrie's family. If I could be a little fly on the wall, what the heck are they talking about? Their future daughter-in-law has gone missing. Their son has flown home, put items in storage, flown back. I think this family is frantically scraping together a story and trying to come up with their own timeline and avoiding talking to law enforcement until they can get their story straight. They are trying to protect their son. Obviously, there was violence going on in the

household even before they went on this trip. Obviously, he flew home to make sure there was no evidence of violence in the household, evidence of them fighting or maybe her writing in a diary. Oh, hold on. You just brought up a great idea, Dr. Bethany. Dale Carson has been focused on a yellow spiral notebook. Speaking of diaries, Dr. Bethany, Dale Carson, what is your interest in a yellow spiral notebook and a drone memory card? Well, I mean, we see drone footage and the only way drones work is by memory cards when they film. And I don't know, did they have a drone?

What about anything she was using to edit the film? All of those things become critical because, as we know, when we edit film on a video, it stores multiple copies of things that are going on. And in one of the videos, it's evident that underneath an iPad is a YOLA spiral notebook, which is likely a diary of some sort. And I did read yesterday that the attorney for Landry provided investigators with some items that belong to Gabby. And I'd be fascinated to know what those items were. Were they computers? What were they exactly? Actually, you just mentioned something really interesting. I want to circle back to Cheryl McCollum. You just heard Dale Carson mention an iPad. I know that she was using a laptop because she said she was working on her laptop for the blog. Couldn't the iPad be located much like a phone could be?

It can be. Absolutely. You know, Nancy, there's so much technology that these two young people were using. There's going to be so much data that they've got to go through. And there's another thing we haven't discussed. He did have a cell phone.

Yep. Or some type of device. If he plugged that cell phone straight into the port in the car, that car computer reads all of it, text messages, everything. And unless he deleted it somehow, then the police have access to that, too. Even a 2012 Ford Transit? Possibly. Again, it's all computer-based.

Everything is in your car is a computer now. So a lot of times now if you have trouble, like even with a relay, your car may not crank, not because the battery is not good, but because the relay is telling it not to. It's a computer problem, not a engine problem. So there's a lot of data that can be drawn from all of these devices. Let me give an example. The other day, my mom's friend wanted me to jump off his car. I did. And he got it to the dealership. There's nothing wrong with the battery.

It was the key fob computer that was causing the problem. So you're absolutely right. And you're saying, Cheryl McCollum, that if he plugged in to charge, although he said he found the charger, but if he plugged in for any reason into the car, if it's computer based, it reads what's on the computer on the phone? Yeah, it stores it. Like when you rent a car and you plug your car directly into that vehicle, even in a rental car, if you don't delete that stuff, the next person that gets in that car can see your text messages if they pull it up. You mean text messages that you send during that time are all text messages? That you send during that time. You know, I'd really like to see if they are, Jackie, doing a search warrant to get the

parents, the laundry parents' information. They will. Their text, whatever's up in the cloud, anything that they may have done. Jump in, go ahead. The way that's done is if there is evidence that is pertinent to her being missing and it's been destroyed or modified by the Laundrie family. Of course, that is destruction of evidence. It allows for a search warrant issue with the signature of a judge. And that's precisely what they should be doing in Florida right now.

Hey, Nancy, I did want to make one more point that law enforcement is doing. They're searching his search history. Oh, of course. Absolutely. I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. Joe Scott Morgan, final thought. Yeah, hold on. I hear Dr. Bethany. Go ahead, Dr. Bethany. Well, Martin, she was very dysregulated when the policemen were interviewing her. They had been fighting for hours. Somebody who's that dysregulated, who cannot stop crying, probably has a history of fighting, but also a history of reaching out for help. She may have been talking to her mother about their relationship difficulties. Maybe she had a best friend, obviously, she was supposed to meet around birthday plans. There was a lot of communication, as Cheryl McCollum is talking about, via text, the car computer, phone, you know, computer, all of that.

But as a therapist, I'm saying that she reached out for a lot of help. There were a lot of people with information about what was happening in that relationship. And maybe even on that trip. Final thought, Jay Scott? Yeah, they got to put the spurs to the horse here. They've got to get on this. Let me tell you, the last place she was was up in Wyoming. Nancy, if she was put out of that van, the temperature up there and the environment is completely different than it is down in Moab. It's going to be cold.

She can die of exposure, dehydration, all of these things that she would be exposed to in that environment as opposed to having been down in the desert. They need to get on this as quickly as possible, Start this grid search and start looking for her up there. Tip line 800-CALL-FBI 800-225-5324. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.