Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - VEGAN PARENTS' INFANT BOY STARVED DEAD IN OWN BASSINET, siblings’ teeth rot black from malnutrition

Episode Date: January 16, 2020

Vegan couple Ryan and Sheila O'Leary are facing murder charges after their baby boy was found starved to death. Authorities said the baby's siblings were found with rotted teeth, brought on by malnutrition.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case: John Musca: Attorney James Shelnutt : 27 years Atlanta Metro Major Case Detective, SWAT Officer (RET) Karen Smith Forensics Expert. Bare Bones Consulting  Tim Gallagher: Medical Examiner for State of Florida [phone] Dr Daniel Bober: Forensic Psychiatrist Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. A little baby starves dead in his own bassinet while the parents are in the home. The home is a wreck. One child sleeping in a hammock, one child sleeping in a dog bed on the floor. The other child in the bassy, wasting away until the baby dies. Now, the parents are claiming, oh, it wasn't our fault. We're vegans. Okay. I've heard of the Twinkie defense. I've heard of the I'm on my period defense. But now the vegan defense. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Nancy Grace. Two parents in Cape Coral are charged with the death of their 18-month-old son. The baby weighed just 17 pounds at the time of his death.

Experts say 17 pounds is what a 7-month-old should weighOLD SHOULD WEIGH, NOT A BABY WHO'S A YEAR AND A HALF OLD. A LEE COUNTY GRAND JURY INDICTED RYAN PATRICK O'LEARY AND SHEILA O'LEARY WEDNESDAY ON CHARGES OF FIRST-DEGREE MURDER, AGGRAVATED CHILD ABUSE, AGGRAVATED MANSLAUGHTER, CHILD ABUSE, AND TWO COUNTS OF CHILD NEGLECT. ACCORDING TO A POLICE REPORT, THE MOTHER CALLED 911 IN SEPTEMBER WHEN SHE NOTICED HER SON WAS NOT BREATHING AND FELT COLD. ACCORDING TO NEWSPRESS, THE BABY WAS DEAD WHEN PARAMEDICS ARRIVED. THE STATE ATTORNEY FOR THE CASE SAYS THE in September when she noticed her son was not breathing and felt cold. According to news press, the baby was dead when paramedics arrived. The state attorney for the case says the indictments also include three other children who suffered child abuse and extreme neglect.

They are three years old, five years old, and 11 years old. You are hearing our friend at CBS Miami, that's Katie Johnson speaking. An 18-month-old infant dead, weighing just 17 pounds. That's what a baby should weigh, a six or seven-month-old. With me, an all-star panel to make sense of it all. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist at Dr. Daniel Bober on Instagram. Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the state of Florida, forensics expert, founder, Beer Bones Consulting, Karen Smith, James Shelnut, 27 years Metro major case and SWAT officer, now lawyer, and joining me, special guest to represent Sheila O'Leary, the 35-year-old mom, and you can find him at muscalaw.com, M-U-S-C-A. But first, let's go

through the facts, what we know happened when mommy calls 911. Sheila O'Leary, 35, and Ryan O'Leary, 30, are from Florida, and mommy calls 911 when she realizes her baby is cold to the touch. First of all, to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida, how long would it take in ambient air in a home, let's just say at 68 to 70 degrees in the home, how long would it take for a baby to get cold to the touch? Well, after the baby dies, the body loses about one degree per hour. So then cold to the touch is sort of a relative term. So I would guess it would be a few hours before the baby starts feeling cold to the touch. I'm sorry, did you say one to three hours? I'm saying that

the body loses one degree of temperature every hour. So if the baby feels cold to the touch, the baby should have been deceased for several hours. Well, what body temp makes you cold to the touch? How cold do you have to be to be cold to the touch? Well, that's a relative term. Everyone's a little different, you know, but I would think that once the body temperature goes below 90 degrees Fahrenheit, then most people would assume that that would be cold to the touch. Okay, below 90 degrees Fahrenheit equals cold to the touch. And that's, I'm sure, euphemistic.

I'm sure you're going with in light most favorable to the mom and dad. So body temperature is typically 98.6. Do I at least have that right? You certainly do, Nancy. Dr. Gallagher? You certainly do. So to get down to 90 degrees to be cold to the touch would be 8.6 hours. Is that not correct? That would be true for an adult with a baby. Possibly they would lose heat even faster than that. So I would say maximum eight hours

of death, but it could be half that. It could be four hours or so. It depends on the body, the surface area of the baby when they die. I'm very curious about what time of the day that 911 is called. I'm taking a look at the family's home there in Cape Coral. It looks like a lovely home. There is a grass yard in the front, a palm tree in the front. It's landscaped and manicured. It's not big, but it looks like a typical ranch style home. It looks to me like there is a BMW parked in the front. But what I do know is that mommy calls. Also, we've learned that there was a probable cause affidavit that was issued by police. It says the other children were pale and had yellowish skin, and one of them had blackened teeth caused by dental decay.

Okay, Dr. Gallinger, I know you're an MD, not a DDS, a dentist, but can you tell me how long would it take teeth blackened from decay? Not long at all. It also depends on the child's genetics, But if you are malnourished, you do not have good teeth formation and that they are more susceptible to becoming decayed if good dental hygiene is not practiced regularly. But I mean, turning black? How can you say that doesn't take long at all for your teeth to turn black? Well, your teeth have to start out good to begin with. And if they have a chronic history of being malnourished, the teeth will not form properly. And they are very, very susceptible to decay if they're not brushed and upkept. So, you know, it could just it could

be we're talking in terms of 18 months could be two years, you know, before they turn black, like you're describing. Okay, now, wait a minute, you said no time at all i i guess i'm looking at things differently than you do dr gallagher because i'm looking at um obvious premeditated child neglect and i mean for me that can be a period of hours you neglect your child it falls in the swimming pool and dies uh you neglect your child it burns itself on your curling iron because you're not paying attention that's felony child abuse neglect 18 months is a lifetime a lifetime to form premeditation under the law but before i have these two the mom and the dad ryan patrick o'leary and she O'Leary, strung up at the gallows.

Let's go to Sheila O'Leary's defense attorney, excellent reputation throughout the jurisdiction, John Muska. Okay, John, how can the children's teeth be black with decay and there not be parental neglect? What would be the defense for that nancy my understanding is that they had been receiving dental care and we have not been able to confirm on our end that they have in fact uh been neglected to that extent so defense counsel is is unequivocally denying any type of neglect in that respect. Okay. So here's my question, and you're going to have to face this when you guys go to trial or the case is resolved. I guarantee you that there are going to at least, at the very least, be police witnesses or defects for what they're worth,

Department of Family and Children's Services witnesses, stating that children's teeth were black. I'm not talking about the dead baby. I'm talking about the other children. Now, there was an 11-year-old in the home that apparently was thriving. Documents reveal the 11-year-old, who's Sheila O'Leary's daughter from another relationship, visits her bio dad in Virginia every two months. She was in much better physical shape compared to her emaciated half siblings. Now, we also learned that when interviewed by police, your client,

Sheila O'Leary, this is according to their documents, she said her youngest child had not eaten anything other than breast milk for the week leading up to his death. She said he didn't have an appetite because he was teething. You know, John, you better not stack that jury full of moms because I nut up if Lucy won't eat her dinner. Last night, she only ate half of her steak patty with cheese on top, and I was beside myself. I made her a penny B&J after with a glass of milk to tempt her, which she ate, so I was a little bit happier with that.

But a week? John, I mean, this is not the police. This is your client saying that according to police documents. How can you fight that at trial? Well, Nancy, first of all, the reality is that many, many kids worldwide are raised on vegan and vegetarian diets that do just fine. Something else was happening here. Something else was going on. We're still gathering information. We're still in the early stages of trying to ascertain an alternate cause here. But we're solidly of the opinion that that the child was doing just fine and had been doing fine on the raw vegan diet. So we're yet to determine where we're going to go from here in that regard. Well, I agree with you on much of what you just said, John Muska,

because many people are vegetarian. My nephew is vegetarian. His wife, girls, and my daughter's scout troop are vegetarian. They're all doing just fine. Now, these children were all fed a diet, according to mommy and daddy, mainly consisting of mangoes, bananas, avocados. They were also homeschooled by their mother. But to say that the child hadn't eaten for a week because it was teething,

that's not going to fly. I mean, Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner, state of Florida, how many days can a child go without eating and live, an infant? Well, if a child is well-nourished, they can go probably five to seven days, you know, without protein, but they will need fluids. You know, another part of this case is, you know, the autop, but they will need fluids. You know, another part of this case is, you know, the autopsy is going to prove very vital here. We want to make sure that the child did not have a gastrointestinal or stomach or intestine malady. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. During the couple's initial court appearance, a defense lawyer argued that the 18-month-old baby had been sick for six months prior to death. But what the defense is up against is that the autopsy report says that the baby died from malnutrition. That is what the autopsy report shows. So to Dr. Tim Gallagher, how would the autopsy, what would the child's body look like if it had been malnourished, died of malnourishment? Well, naturally, there would be no apparent fat on the body. The intestines, once the inspection of the intestines will reveal that there is no food in the upper part of the intestine and no stool in the lower part of the intestine.

Plus all the measurements that we do, the circumference of the head, the circumference of the stomach, the length of the body, each and all of the limbs would be well under what would be considered normal. Well, that doesn't mean anything to me, Dr. Gallagher, about the length, because when Lucy was in my stomach all the doctors told me that she was progressing perfectly when she was born John David weighed over five pounds she barely weighed two pounds her body was the right length but she was not getting the nourishment so I don't know if I agree with you of course I'm a JD you're an MD that the length of the body means anything am I totally off base well it would have to be not just the length. That's not the measurement

you want to key in on, but it's the circumference of the stomach, the weight of the organs. It's the entire body taken as a whole. Okay. So if you look at somebody who is normal compared to somebody who is malnourished, you're going to see obvious differences in the sizes of the exterior. And when you go inside the body, you'll see the same thing on the inside. Well, we have another issue. I'm going to throw this at John Muska, the lawyer for Sheila O'Leary, the mom in this case. I guarantee you, John, you're going to face an issue in that people judge the mom more harshly

than the dad. You know, Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, joining me out of the Florida jurisdiction. Why is it that in a case like this, people are going to blame the mom more than the dad? Oh, Nancy, you know, I think, you know, in divorce cases, they always say that the child should go to the mother too. So I think both parents probably share blame equally. But, you know, society has preconceived notions about gender roles. No offense, but that's totally not my question. Go ahead. I think society has preconceived notions about gender roles.

So I think that's what it has to do with. Okay, I guess, you know, if everybody searches your heart, I know you love your dad because my dad was closest person in the world to me and I miss him every single day. But when you skin your knee, when you're in trouble, when you get out of jail or you're on the run, who do you go to? Mommy. Mommy. It's always mommy. You look on the inmates in the jailhouse. Who do they have tattooed on their arm mommy they don't have daddy no i don't know why that is i'm not a shrink but i guarantee you muska at trial they're going to judge mommy more harshly than dad unless you can come up with a

battered women's syndrome defense where she was afraid to do anything other than what she did also is it true that your client sheila has a prior case out of virginia because her oldest daughter had been placed in state custody for failure to thrive and severe malnutrition that had already happened in virginia well nancy i can confirm only that that matter out of Virginia has been closed. But I don't believe defense counsel. Wait, what matter? What matter in Virginia? You indicated that you were inquiring about some type of matter in Virginia.

Correct? Okay, I was inquiring about a case out of Virginiaia that the mom sheila o'leary now 35 had when her eldest daughter was put in state custody over a failure to thrive and severe malnutrition now that happened in virginia and then they moved to florida i also know the prosecutor said that one of the children had to have teeth pulled because of severe decay and malnutrition. Hold on just a moment. Let me go to our doctor, Dr. Gallagher. Dr. Gallagher, when doctors or teachers or nurses see any type of neglect or what they think is neglect,

I mean, Muska may have a perfectly good reason to explain all this, which I doubt, Muska, no offense, but don't dentists? Well, if given the opportunity, but go ahead. Oh, wait, no, go ahead. Go. I want to hear it. Well, Nancy, you mentioned defense counsel would need to have a good reason, you know, battered women's syndrome.

I don't believe we need that. I believe we need to posit solid alternate theories that speak to both the cause and the manner of death, alternative to neglect. And I believe once the evidence is revealed and the facts become known, I believe that we're going to be successful doing just that. As you know, Nancy, with first-degree murder, it's premeditation. You mentioned earlier premeditation. That means that the prosecutor is going to need to prove that Sheila had to have knowledge that she was harming the child in a knowing or intentional manner. And we believe that that's going to be difficult to prove. Remember, it's the mental state as well that they need to prove. They need to somehow get into her head and establish that as a key element of

the offense. And we simply don't believe that they're going to be able to prove that. Well, John Muska joining me, the lawyer for Sheila O'Leary at muskalaw.com. Does she have any type of mental or emotional impairment? Well, that we're not going to be able to get into as that's protected by the attorney-client privilege. Nancy, I'm not able to comment on that. And again, we're still learning more and more about this case daily. Okay, and I understand that. That's going to be an offense at trial. You want to keep that close to your vest. But under the law, premeditation can be formed in a moment,

in the twinkling of an eye, in the time it takes you to pull a trigger. If you have already told police you didn't feed your baby for a week, the baby had never been to the doctor in 18 months according to police. You've got other children with their teeth getting pulled because of malnutrition and a prior incident in Virginia doesn't have to be a conviction where a child is taken away because of malnutrition. Under the law if all that is true and there is no mental impairment, wouldn't that equal premeditation? To Dr. Bober, for instance, a psychiatrist, wouldn't that qualify?

I agree with you, Nancy. You know, specifically with the time period, I mean, it could be 18 months and it could even be a second. I think that would be enough to qualify for premeditation. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I've got a question. What can you tell me about their vegan diet, John Muska? Very particular about making sure that the children were fed in a healthy manner. Vegan diet, as we would know, would include nuts, beans, cantaloupes, potatoes, bananas, just, you know, anything and everything that was healthy, most vegetables. The children ate a lot of homegrown tomatoes, cucumbers, homegrown tomatillos even, figs. They were on the healthiest

of diets. The healthiest of diets, but they, according to police and all the documents, were malnourished. There had been a previous case of malnourishment in Virginia. So, you know, you say it's a great vegan diet, but they weren't getting enough to eat. Their teeth were rotting out and pulled because of malnourishment. Another issue I don't quite understand to Dr. Daniel Bober. Neighbors reportedly claim they did not notice anything wrong. What can you tell us about signs of neglect that are missed? Well, Nancy, you know, in a lot of cases, families will try to conceal it from their neighbors because they know that the neighbors are probably the first people that are going to be calling the authorities. So I would say that very often attempts will be made to even prevent the child from speaking to the neighbors, having any outside contact, because they do want

to keep things a secret and sweep it under the rug. You know, also, I think that to Karen Smith, forensics expert, founder of Bare Bones Consulting, when you're speaking to neighbors, very often they may see the children, but they're not close enough to realize something is wrong. And very typically, children are not going, they're out of fear or they're shy, are not going to go up to people and say, I'm hungry. No, they won't. And when neighbors see children maybe playing out in the yard, they're closed. Nancy, they have clothes on. They're not seeing these children without their clothes on. And that may be a telltale sign. They may be happy-go-lucky kids playing in the

yard. We're talking about an 18-month-old baby here that is now deceased. And when you go in the crime scene of something like that, the hardest thing to do is stay clinical and stay objective. That's my job. My job is not to hamstring anyone. My job is to go in and find the evidence, collect it, photograph everything. The mother alleges she was breastfeeding the child. Was she pumping breast milk? Was there any in the fridge? Did she have a warmer for the bottles? What kind of food was in the cabinets? What was in the refrigerator? What did the environment look like? Where were they sleeping? All of those things would be my job to collect and document. And in this case, I really don't know what they had or

what they didn or what they didn't. But I do know that one of the investigators on the scene said it was horrible. And I really don't know what that means. We don't know what that means. We've got to get detailed police reports. But I do know this. The autopsy is in. The medical examiner says that the tot died due to complications related to malnutrition, dehydration, microsteatosis of liver, and swelling of hands, feet, and legs. What does all that mean, Dr. Gallagher? Yeah, that's probably what we would expect to find in somebody who died of malnutrition. So when you draw blood on somebody who's malnourished, it is highly viscous, meaning it's very thick because there's no water present in the body. The same goes for the other blood results that you'll get. They certainly would show a pattern of dehydration and malnutrition in terms of having low protein in those fluids. Microsteatosis of the liver

is there is no protein to support the growth of the liver and steatosis is fatty infiltration of the liver. And if you have fat in the liver, then the normal function of the liver is compromised. You're to a point where even if you do get food, you're to a point where even if you do get food, that you will not be able to process it and recover from this level of malnutrition. Take a listen, our friends at Fox 4. This is Jessica Alperin describing what happened. Going back to those neighbors that I have been speaking with they were again describing a very chaotic scene out here in their home. They say when those officers showed up they saw some of the children being taken away but they also saw officers going behind the home

of the O'Leary's checking even in the garbage cans to see if there was new evidence even there. So again, neighbors just out here this morning with a lot of questions still remain exactly what happened to that child. We're still working to figure out the relationship of the O'Leary's, Patrick Ryan, Ryan Patrick O'Leary and Sheila O'Leary. And again, neighbors describing to us that they believe at least four children lived inside of this home. We do. It does sound from those neighbors that all of those children have been taken away ever since that initial death investigation that took place here in September. So we're working to put the pieces together for you. And as soon as we have new information, we'll be sure to update you both on air and online. The indictment also includes three other victims, a three-year-old, a five-year-old, and an 11-year-old,

who it is alleged suffered from child abuse and extreme neglect. The alleged crimes occurred during 2019 in Cape Coral. The evidence in the crime scene in these cases are gut-wrenching. As a mother and a state attorney, these are images I will never be able to forget. I'm very curious about what else was found at the scene. We are learning that the neighbors described this chaotic scene with the children being taken away from their home. To Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist, what effect will

that have on the siblings, the ones that lived? Yes, Nancy. You know, it's going to be traumatic for them and it's certainly they will, you know, need therapy or counseling to help them deal with this. Well, I guess so. And how do you get over to Dr. Tim Gallagher, extreme malnourishment to the point that your teeth have to be pulled out? That's going to be very difficult, Nancy. They're going to have to, if it's possible, to even recover from this type of malnutrition they will need intravenous fluid or intravenous protein material through their bloodstream so it can go directly to their organs and try

to resuscitate them or try to get them going again so this is going to be a very difficult very long process and I would imagine somebody who is in their adolescence, it would probably take six months or maybe even a full year to recover totally. Take a listen to our friends at NBC2. This is Megan Bragg. We're also learning the three other children in the home were only allowed to eat raw fruits and vegetables and two of them were severely underweight. Sheila and Ryan did admit to police they thought something was wrong with their baby weeks before but didn't call for help. In this nine-page report just obtained by NBC2, Sheila tells police the baby became sick six months ago and was throwing up and lost weight.

About a week before the baby died, Sheila says the 18-month-old stopped eating and would only breastfeed occasionally. The medical examiner says the baby was extremely malnourished, dehydrated, and feet were swollen. Sheila says the baby has never been to the doctor and was born inside their home. Cape Coral police also say two other children were also extremely underweight and one of their children's teeth were rotting. Sheila told police the family would sleep in the living room with one child on a hammock and another on a dog bed. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Sheila and Ryan did admit to police they thought something was wrong with their baby weeks before,

but didn't call for help. In this nine-page report just obtained by NBC2, Sheila tells police the baby became sick six months ago and was throwing up and lost weight. About a week before the baby died, Sheila says the 18-month-old stopped eating and would only breastfeed occasionally. The medical examiner says the baby was extremely malnourished, dehydrated and feet were swollen. Sheila says the baby has never been to the doctor and was born inside their home. Cape Coral police also say two other children were also extremely underweight and one of their children's teeth were rotting. Sheila told police the family would sleep in the living room with one child on a hammock and another on a dog bed.

Sheila O'Leary's attorney told me all the kids living in this home were healthy. Now, I did ask him about the claims of malnourishment, and he says O'Leary actually breastfed her son just a few hours before he died, so he doesn't think malnutrition was the cause of death. Now Sheila O'Leary and her husband Ryan face a manslaughter charge after their baby died here back in September. They turned themselves in last night after the medical examiner revealed malnutrition caused the baby's death. O'Leary's attorney John Muska told me on Skype today that his client was so religious that she did not allow any of her four kids to watch television. He also says she's vegan, but fed her children balanced meals. But he did say there were health concerns regarding the toddler before he died. The child had been sick six months prior and had not fully recuperated.

The child had started eating better, and then the child began teething. And the mother was concerned, very concerned, that that was causing him to not eat as well. You're hearing attorney John Muska, who's with us right now, along with Fox 4 news reporter Rachel Lloyd. So how do you combat at trial, John, when the medical examiner says cause of death is malnutrition, starved to death, how do you fight that and say, no, no, no, no, that's not why he died?

Well, the cause of death may be listed as malnutrition on the coroner's report, Nancy, but the manner of death is listed as an accident. And as I'm sure you know, if the suggestion was homicide, the manner of death would be listed as such on the coroner's report, and it's not. Also, with respect to the cause of death indicated as malnutrition, this is one medical examiner's opinion and one examiner's opinion alone. And so we're optimistic. Okay, I understand that. I got another question for you.

Why is one of the children sleeping in a hammock and another child sleeping in a dog bed? Nancy, I don't have any answer to that. Okay. You know. That's going to be something fun for you to face at trial. Back to the medical examiner joining us, Chief Medical Examiner for the state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher. You know, I'm listening to what John Musk is saying at muskalaw.com. What do you make of the claim that, and you know, when the lawyer says something like he'd been sick for six months, the lawyer's getting that from somewhere.

Musk didn't just make that up. That had to come from either the mom or the dad or someone related to the family. So wouldn't that have shown up in the medical examiner's report, number one? And number two, how can the malnourishment, the starving of a child, be an accident? Because it takes at least a week for a child to starve to death. Good questions, Nancy. You know, the second part of that question would be, you know, why is it an accident? Well, you know, he did mention that it is one medical examiner's opinion. So based on the totality of the evidence provided to the medical examiner at the time of the autopsy,

they were unable to determine at that time if it was intentional or if it was an accident. Other medical examiners may put the manner of death as undetermined, but he felt confident enough to say that it was an accident. But how can starving a child, okay, let me try to rephrase my question. How can a child starve to death over a period of at least seven days and that be an accident, Dr. Gallagher? That's a great question and a great question to ask the medical examiner who did the autopsy. But again, that was his opinion. Why is it an accident? I really don't have an answer for that. Maybe he was not appraised of all of the information at the time that he did do the autopsy. And I believe that would be the most likely cause.

Nancy, we could have many, many underlying causes of malnutrition, which could eventually lead to dehydration and death. You know, children suffering from a very intense flu virus, children having an allergic reaction to a certain food type or food groups, which leads to malnutrition and leads to death. So I think we need to put away the butcher knives and the pitchforks and not make a rush to judgment on exactly what the cause of death was here. But clearly this particular medical examiner on this particular day made the conclusion that the cause of death was malnutrition. And obviously... Well, John, I hear who I nursed to health when they were born extremely premature and one greatly malnourished in utero.

I do know that much. And you're right. I don't have an MD. I have a JD, but I know this much. I don't need an MD to tell me something is very wrong when your children's teeth are black because of malnourishment. And I know, I don't need anybody to tell me, I know there's something wrong when a baby sleeps in a dog bed on the floor. I know that. Nobody needs to tell me that. That is going to be your uphill battle. And John Muska, I'm not attacking you. You are what we want in America. Because when people are charged with crimes, we need lawyers

that are ready, willing and able to defend them with all ethical possibilities. But this is just a tiny bit of what you are up against. Listen to Wink reporter Anika Hennigan. At first glance, you'd never know the scope of suffering police say happened at this house, but after spending the day in the neighborhood, I can tell there's a sense of anger and sadness. Sadness for the suffering the children who lived in this house went through and anger at the parents. Detectives say let it all happen. The medical examiner says in this house a little boy starved to death and police likely saved his two older sisters, ages 3 and 5, from a similar fate. As a neighbor, I wish that there was something that I would have known.

And as a mom, it's horrible. It's horrible. Investigators point the finger at their parents, Sheila and Ryan O'Leary. It's shocking to find that out, especially with little children, you know. You said there was four children? There was. Police removed the surviving three children from the O'Leary's care when they found the 18-month-old victim dead. In the last days, the mom and dad were both in court.

They both have pled not guilty to murder and other charges stemming from the death of their 18-month-old child, Ezra Sage O'Leary. Those charges? First-degree murder, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, child abuse, two counts, child neglect. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.