Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Violent offender gets out of jail free then rapes and murders 92-year-old woman thanks to "bail reform."

Episode Date: January 21, 2020

Bail reform in New York is allowing individuals charged with certain crimes to get out of jail with no cash bond, and it apparently comes with farewell presents.New York Mayor Bill de Blasio is reportedly handing out free transit passes and cash cards to suspects released after being charged following bail reform. The perks are meant to persuade the suspected criminals to return for their court dates.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Jason Oshins: NY Defense Attorney 6 Bobby Chacon: Former Special Agent FBI, current star of FB Watch Series "Curse of Akakor"  Tina Moore: New York Post reporter Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. We're talking about the so-called bail reform. That's what they're calling it. I just don't know how to respond to the Mayor de Blasio giving inmates gift cards, Metro cards, movie cards. I mean, if you get a subpoena, you show up to court. You're not supposed to get a gift from the government for showing up. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. crime stories with nancy grace new york city will be ringing in the new year with a new set of criminal justice reforms to combat overcrowded jails about 900 accused criminals are expected to be released and the city will be rewarding them with mets tickets tickets, movie passes, and gift cards for showing up to court.

Critics say the program rewards criminal behavior, but Mayor de Blasio is optimistic the plan will work. In a world where we want speedier trials and we want the justice system to work, if small incentives are part of what actually makes it work, then that's a smart policy. Starting January 1st, the bail reform policy eliminates cash bail and pretrial detention for misdemeanors and most low-level felonies, with exceptions like murder conspiracy, domestic violence cases, and sex crimes. When defendants are released after arraignment, they'll be encouraged to show up for their next court date with promises of sports tickets, subway passes, and other gift cards. I'm having a hard time soaking in what I just heard and digesting that. But first of all,

let me just start with, I didn't know there was such a thing as a low-level felony. That's why we call it a felony. If it's low-level, it's a misdemeanor like shoplifting or jaywalking, snatching a plate out of somebody's hand. Those are misdemeanors. Those are low level. When you get to felony status, nothing is low level. You were just hearing our friend Hazel Sanchez over at CBS2 reporting with me right now to break it down and put it back together again. Jason Oceans, New York defense attorney, Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI, star of Facebook Watch series Curse of Alcocor.

And now to my favorite paper, the New York Post reporter, Tina Moore. Tina, what the hay is happening now? What's wrong with de Blasio? I think the idea is to provide incentives to get people to come back to court. Now that you can no longer issue a warrant for the arrest because they didn't show up, they're trying to give them incentives. Okay, I'm trying to take in what you just said. Now that you no longer can't arrest them because they didn't show up. Well, you can arrest them if they're going to get out without any bail. We have no cash bail now, so they're just going to get right back out again. So it truly is a revolving door.

Wow. We wonder why over a million people have left the city of New York. It's all coming into focus right now. Let me understand something, Tina Moore. With the so-called bail reform, that's what they're calling it, you don't put up a cash bond. You don't put up a bond. You basically get fingerprinted, you sign your name, and you walk out the door. For some crimes, yeah. Okay, what crimes would that be? Felonies, like you pointed out. I think assault would be one where you slap somebody.

Say we had an example of that recently. Maybe you slapped a stranger in the street and you were taken, you were arrested. But the judge knows that with bail reform, they're going to have to just release you without bail anyway. So they set a court date and they let you go. And if you don't come back to court, if you don't show up, what happens? I mean, this person I'm talking about uh this week uh hit another person after they were released was arrested again so um does this include burglary drug offense many drug offenses even some types of arson and robbery yes yes yes it includes those

offenses okay who said that arson is low-level? Well, who came up with that? I've prosecuted so many arsons. Of course, they were related to homicides. But how can that be considered low-level, Tina? Well, it's a pass-through law by the state legislature, so it's not of the city's doing even. It's on the state level.

That's true, but how can setting something afire and endangering the lives of so many, how can that possibly be considered low level? I mean, this sounds like crime pays, as is pointed out in the New York Post, quote, the crime pays giveaways build on another de Blasio policy revealed by the Post last month

that showers freebies, including Mets tickets, on prisoners. I'm sure the Mets are so proud to know their tickets are being given away to criminals. I mean, did anybody ask the Mets about this, Tina? I'm not sure about that, but I think it's geared towards the children and families of people who might have been you know in trouble or arrested in jail tina tina please understand i'm not picking on you i know but let me i'm picking on de blasio let me understand so we're expecting a doper or an arsonist to give the mets tickets to their child. Wait, am I understanding that? You don't think they're going to be out in front of the stadium scalping them illegally?

Hello? I'm not sure who came up with the idea, really. I don't know what their thinking was. I have seen the word incentive, providing incentives for these people to come back to court, but I don't know who actually came up with the idea or what their rationale was. Also from the Post, who is absolutely correct, Mayor Bill de Blasio admits he has no idea how much his administration is actually going to spend on tickets to movies and Met Games to entice criminals into showing up at court. Right. Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI, help me.

Tina doesn't apparently seem to be worried about this. You live in New York, right, Tina? I'm concerned. I think everybody is. But here you realize that there's a movement right now to make reforms to the reforms, to actually go back and change some things around so that we don't have arsonists getting out on the street. Wait, wait, hold on. I've got to make a note of that.

Right now there's a movement to make reforms to the reforms. I guess so. Okay, what were you saying, Chacon? First of all, we have to actually stop using the word reforms. These are not reforms. That's a word the advocates are using to water down what's happening. This is a of the structure of our system that has provided for the safety of citizens and law enforcement. This is not a reform. A reform is like chewing around the edges of something and changing it.

This is a complete dismantling of some things that have been so ingrained in our system to with the purpose of providing safety. I can tell you as someone who worked gangs in New York City in the 80s and 90s, I worked Jamaican posses in Brooklyn, and I worked in gangs in Washington Heights, I can tell you they know this system. They are laughing now. They are enjoying this new movement to make things easier for the criminals. They will take advantage of them. And I don't know if it's the law of unintended consequences, but there will be people that get hurt and killed, both citizens and law enforcement, because of this dismantling and restructuring. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Let me explain what Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI, just said. In my mind, Jason Oceans, New York defense attorney.

Jason, don't even in your usual slippery asill way, try to argue with me about this. Every felony I tried, practically, I would say, this is anecdotal, 95% of the felonies that I took to trial, the perp had been convicted before. It could be on a peeping Tom misdemeanor. It could be on a shoplifting misdemeanor. It could be on a shoplifting misdemeanor. It could be on a simple assault misdemeanor. It could be a bad check misdemeanor. But they had a record.

And now these people are not only not putting up a bond, they're getting a gift card, Mets tickets, movie tickets, cell phone, what do we say, cell phone prepaid cards you know jason oceans the next time somebody a doper comes in your office he's going to empty out a pocket full of phone cards as payment you ready for that selling them on uh on ebay the the number of uh the number of crimes that now fall under this uh bail reform is beyond what you're just, you know, never mind. Second-degree manslaughter. Oh, I'm adding this to my list. Second-degree manslaughter.

Stalking as a hate crime. Aggravated assault on a child under 11. Wait, wait, wait, stop, stop, stop. I can't write that fast. It's ridiculous. A drunk driver get arrested for killing somebody and get released right away. That person who was arrested for running over someone and killing them all drunk is on the street again. Aggravated vehicular assault.

Wait, wait. Let me correct you, Miss Tina Moore from the New York Post. Let me correct you. I'm going to call you on the carpet, Tina. They not only get straight out on the street, they get straight out on the street with a prepaid phone card. Okay? So let's just be clear. They not only walk free.

Your own burner account. They get a... I can't believe the people of New York are not lying on the courthouse steps, screaming and gnashing their teeth over this. Because the next time they get on a subway, who do you think is going to be on the strap next to you? One of these pervs, one of these guys that has just gotten out of jail. What did you say, Jason Oceans, about ag assault on a child? Yes, another one of these.

Aggravated assault on a child under 11. That's all. Are you sure? How about this if you you're at a Met game and I'm a Met fan, criminal injection of a controlled substance into another person. So in theory, you could go ahead, inject someone with a controlled substance. You know, they arrest you come out. You could just keep doing that at net games because this is what. Wait a minute. Where are you getting your information, Jason, that these crimes are included in the bail quote reform act? These are all public, all the crimes that fall under the bail reform law. They're all there. Is this true, Tina Moore? I'm not taking the word of a defense lawyer.

No, no, no, Nancy. Tina, is this true? It is true. You are not Tina Moore. Excuse me, Tina Moore. I'm sorry. You don't have to scream over Jason. I will do it for you, Tina, because you're too much of a lady. Tina, is this true? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Good Lord in heaven. These offenses, stalking is a hate crime, drunk driver, homicide, ag assault, child under 11. Those are some of the crimes that you can get out without posting bond?

It's true. Yes, it's true. There have been a couple lists put out by DA's offices. Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI. Every time I see miscarriage of justice, when the system screws somebody over, I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. Like when they make a mistake at trial, either intentional or unintentional, somebody walks free. When somebody's wrongly convicted. in the stomach, like when they make a mistake at trial, either intentional or unintentional,

somebody walks free, when somebody's wrongly convicted. And now this, I guess I've devoted as a crime victim and as a prosecutor of victims' rights, I've devoted my whole life to the justice system. And I got to tell you, this has really got me upset that these people are going to really go in and go out after they give their fingerprint and sign a piece of paper. And some of these are very violent crimes. And now they're getting a phone card to go with it. Yeah, you don't have to look at the recidivism rates and things like that to know and to look at something like this and know for a fact this kind of movement will create more victims. More people, more citizens and more law enforcement will be injured or maimed or killed because of a law like this goes into effect. There is no doubt.

Yes, it will help some people. And yes, there are some tweaks that need to be made to the bail system. But this total dismantling of it like this will create more victims. People, citizens will be more at risk. Law enforcement will be more at risk. There is no doubt about this. When you start releasing these people back, because there is no more adaptable person in our system than a criminal that knows the criminal justice system well. And they all do. And they know how to use it and manipulate it to their advantage.

Question to Tina Moore, New York Post. Okay. the system well and they all do and they know how to use it and manipulate it to their advantage question to tina moore new york post okay the new york post states quote mayor bill de blasio admits he has no idea how much his administration is spending on tickets to movies and mets games used to entice accused criminals to return to their mandated court appearances. Let me tell you something, Jason Oceans. de Blasio is trying to hide behind the speedy trial demand. A speedy trial demand, for those of you that don't know, is when a defense files a motion for a speedy trial. And if the state doesn't give you a trial within X amount of months, like three to six months, depending on the jurisdiction and the time of the indictment, you walk free. If you don't get your trial within that period of time, you walk free. It's like the state having a no-show at a softball game. The other side walks free. That is incentive to come to court. That's the incentive to get speedy trials.

You want a speedy trial? I remember, Jason, I'd have a docket of 150 cases waiting for me to try them. If I got a speedy trial, they all got put on the back burner and I'd trial the speedy. I would try the speedy first so there would not be an automatic acquittal. That's the answer to that. I don't have to pay for movie seats and Mets tickets and phone cards to get somebody a speedy trial, Jason. Isn't that true? Nancy, you're absolutely correct. Same in the federal system.

I mean, those cases get advanced right to the top, and, you know, that's the check and balance system. You know, sometimes something gets lost, and then that's the focus of it. Bail reform is meant, as Bobby said, it should be for low level, as you said in the opening, misdemeanors, felonies. No, that's not the felonies, the distinction between the two. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back. This is Crime Stories with me and all-star panel Jason Oceans, New York defense attorney, to Bobby Chacon. Welcome.

Former special agent, FBI current star of Facebook watch series Curse of Akakor. And, of course, Tina Moore with us, New York Post reporter. Tina, let's talk about what's just happened. Isn't it true, and I read this first in the New York Post, that a bank robber, and which is no easy feat to rob a bank, by the way, had already gotten out on this free pass and then targeted more banks immediately. What happened, Tina? Yeah, that's true. He said, I can't believe they let me out. What were they thinking? I don't understand. Maybe he needs some mental health treatment. Well, he can certainly afford it because he's knocked over so many banks. Jason Oceans, did you see that bank number five? He had already robbed one bank, and I guarantee you he had to use a weapon.

And then he targets four other banks the minute he gets out. And Tina Moore, of course, is not just making that up. Those are his words, not hers. Quote, I can't believe they let me out. No, Jason, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait for it. Let it breathe. I can't believe they let me out. The criminals and the defense attorneys are dancing in the halls today. Help me, Jason. Why? Criminals are opportunists, so they'll know all about the law and bail reform probably as it was being printed by the legislature.

So this individual you're talking about didn't, you passed a note, so no weapon. So as a result of doing that, they just let him ride out. No note. And that was how he was able to continue to revolve through the story. No one likes likes it not in this manner right from a from a service you know from from from looking at not these clients nobody like other clients defense attorneys like yeah he's laughing okay i can't take credit for this although i would like to steal it bobby chacon but that would be wrong quote he's laughing all the way to the bank a john dillinger wannabe is on the loose thanks to bail quote reform that set him free despite his arrest in connection to one two three four manhattan bank robberies he just got out, and he immediately robs a fifth bank.

He gets it on Thursday, and he robs the bank on Friday. I'm getting that from, of course, the New York Post. Go ahead, Bobby Chacon. Bobby, you've dealt with as many criminals as Jason and I have, and Tina, and the media. I'm sure you've dealt with a lot more, but we'll let that go. But Bobby Chacon, you know, it's like a homing pigeon. It does this. It comes right back to the same spot. You're a bank robber. You'll rob another bank. You're a dope dealer. The minute you get out, you hit the street and try to find a bag of

dope to sell. It's like, they're like lemmings. They do. Well, like a lot of us, we don't have independent thought. We just do what is routine, what is normal, what we normally do. I mean, I got up this morning, made a cup of tea and put skim milk in it, heated up the microwave without even thinking. I kind of like woke up and it was in my hand. That's the way they consider crime, Bobby. Explain it. That's right, Nancy. And all you have to do is look at the recidivism rate, the rate at which criminals recommit or they reoffend, and it is so high, particularly in places like New York City and New York State, that to think that a system where we're going to let even career criminals out again on the street without any kind of bail requirements is a joke to think that that makes the system better, that that's going to allow more people to show back up for trial. There was a case where one of the guy's career offenses, 14 times he hadn't shown back up for court.

He was a career criminal. And on January 1st, he was released under this law. And, you know, it goes on and on. We're already seeing things like in Seneca County, upstate New York, a guy was charged with predatory sexual assault, first-degree rape, and endangering the welfare of a child. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Bobby Chacon, slow down.

I want that to sink in. Please. I don't have dramatic pauses. They are pauses to let me think and soak in what I just heard. Okay. What did you say about rape? What did I just hear? So Dana Goodman, 34, was charged with predatory sexual assault, a Class A-2 felony.

He was also charged with first-degree rape, a Class B felony, and endangering the welfare of a child. He was ROR'd on those charges under the new law. He was what? He was RO? He was what? He was released on his own recognizance, which means he's released... Released on own recognizance. He walked out on his good word,

on his good word, an alleged rapist. Of a child less than 13 years old is what the investigation reveals. Oh! Oh! Tina Moore, I feel like I just got shot in the arm. Now, Tina, my poor children, they have no idea how much I talk about them constantly on the air, but they just turned 12, okay? So this guy allegedly rapes a child, and he gets out ROR, released on own recognizance. In other words, doesn't post a bond.

Tina Moore, New York Post crack reporter. Tina, you know how many times molesters molest before they get caught? It's like 40 to 100 times that they molest to each arrest. So he gets arrested on rape and sex assault on a child and walks out. If Bobby Chacon is to be believed. But Tina, help me. What is wrong with de Blasio? This is not about politics.

I don't give a fig what party he's in. This is just wrong, Tina. Well, Baylor's form came from Albany. So that's terrible, the molester. I've written a lot about that. Not that case in particular, but about that crime. But the bank robber is a bit different. I mean, the bank robber had a note. He used a note. He did not have a weapon. So there's got to be some rational way to deal with this instead of reactionary, because that's horrible that that person who was accused of rape got set free.

Can I ask you something, Tina? Yes. Have you ever heard of cases, because I have, in fact, I prosecuted them, where there would be a robbery, and in this case, the perp, Dermot Shea, cut that, that's the NYPD commissioner. In this case, Woodbury's alleged spree begins when he slips a note demanding money to a teller to chase bank. Like that. Why is it so easy to rob a bank with a note? I don't understand that. Maybe there's a problem with the bank. Really? I mean, yeah, this is what I was working up to. If they think he has a gun, what do you think the security officer is going to do? Pull out a gun. And then what's going to happen? Shooting is going to happen. And I've had cases where the actual robber was not the one that fired the bullet to kill somebody. There would be a shoot-off. There

would be basically a Wild West situation. I've had bank robberies. The first one was a dyslexic bank robber. And his note said, don't touch the owl ram this is a roby well guess how he got convicted tina moore because i had a handwriting comparison done and in all the handwritings he spelled everything backwards too no offense but you know got him what i'm saying is a bank robbery gun or no gun is a violent crime clearly if you keep going back and doing this over and over again the bigger issue here is mental health. Clearly, you've got a mental health problem. The government needs to put more money into giving these people treatment.

That's the problem, obviously. If you go back and rob a bank five times, there's a bigger problem than just being a bank robber. Well, it'll be a really big problem when somebody ends up getting shot or killed or run over because of this bank robber. But my issue is not the bank robber not having a gun. My issue is violent crime and people getting out from behind bars and then de Blasio the effrontery of giving them a swag bag. The other issue to Bobby Chacon, former special agent FBI, star of Facebook Watch Curse of Akakor. Bobby, they say they want to combat jail overcrowding. What's so difficult to understand, and you can

tell me if you think I'm wrong, our population has skyrocketed over the last, say, 60 years. Of course, the jail population has increased. Of course it is. We shouldn't expect that our jails won't be crowded. That's why we need to build alternate facilities. It's just that simple. The housing market, you know, there's tons of new subdivisions and apartment high rises. Why aren't there more jails? Explain. Well, you know, that's the old problem where nobody everybody wants

more jails and nobody wants them in their own backyard you start running out of places to put jails and stuff but but you're right I mean as the population increases we're going to have more you know people that need to require incarceration however I'm not against the concept of reform bail because they do parade out some you know horrific cases of somebody being in jail it shouldn't be but this is not reform. This is a complete restructuring. This goes way too far. They start talking about, well, we're only doing it for nonviolent offenders, which is not true. And so this was really a

one-sided debate on this so-called reform. And it's out of control that the amount of crimes that are covered, you know, there are pretrial diversion things that can be looked at. It's just in this particular case, the state went way too far in what it's doing to let career criminals back on the street who are going to reoffend. There is no question about that. You are going to create more victims. There have probably been more victims already because this law is in place. Take a listen to our friends at CBS2. Hundreds of offenses such as stalking, grand larceny, assault as a hate crime, and second-degree manslaughter will no longer be eligible for bail or pretrial detention. They eliminated bail, but they never put in the safeguard that we need of allowing a judge to assess dangerousness.

And the result is we've got some glaring loopholes that are going to go into effect tomorrow. CBS2 urban affairs expert Mark Peters says this sets New York apart from other states, such as New Jersey, which have already eliminated cash bail. So that somebody can walk up to someone on the street and punch them in the face, THE COURT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE A CASH BAIL. THE COURT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE A CASH BAIL. THE COURT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE A CASH BAIL. SO THAT SOMEBODY CAN WALK UP TO SOMEONE ON THE STREET AND

PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE AND IF THEY HAVEN'T DONE LASTING PHYSICAL INJURY, THERE'S NO BAIL AVAILABLE. THEY CAN BE LET OUT THAT DAY. THEY CAN GO AND PUNCH SOMEBODY THE NEXT DAY. THE COURT WILL HAVE THE

OPTION TO SUPERVISE RELEASE DEFENDANTS BY CHECK INS WITH A CASE WORKER, BY MONITORING THEIR MENTAL HEALTH OR SUBSTANCE ABUSE TREATMENT, BY MAKING SURE THEY MAINTAIN EMPLOYMENT, OBEY AN ORDER OF PROTECTION OR FORFEIT THEIR FIREARMS. DID THE COURT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE A CASH BAIL? with a caseworker by monitoring their mental health or substance abuse treatment, by making sure they maintain employment, obey an order of protection, or forfeit their firearms.

Could someone, I'll go to you, Jason Oceans, New York, New Jersey defense attorney. How is it that DFACS, Department of Family and Children's Services, also known as CPS, Child Protective Services, doesn't have enough employees to check over or guard children placed back in what I know to be horrible homes, and the children end up dead. We have a new case like that every single day. I've got so many that I hate to broadcast them all, or I would be doing every single program on that. Not enough employees, not enough

motivated employees, but we think, and children die, we think we have enough employees to monitor whether a perp, a criminal perp, is taking his meds or going to rehab or going to AA. Really? That's not going to happen. Why don't we just deal with the truth? It's not happening at all. This was, as Bobby said, Tina reported, this was just an abomination. There's there's there's no aspect of this that's good for for anyone except, you know, recidivist criminals. You know, there was a raid in the state of anti-Semitism and those that were committing it were just let right out again to assault others. You talked about Met tickets, and that's a de Blasio thing versus the state that enacted this bail reform nonsense. But imagine going to a Met game, and one of the crimes now is injecting a child with a controlled substance, injecting a minor with a controlled substance, and you're out.

So imagine you're that disturbed individual. That's what you're sitting next to potentially at a Metgate. I want you to take a listen to a New York assemblyman joining our friends at Fox & Friends. Even someone with an extensive criminal history, an individual with 24 prior arrests, punched a police officer in Brooklyn, was released right back onto the street. And we saw an illegal immigrant in Rockland County on Christmas Eve, hit, drive unlicensed, hit and killed a 35-year-old mother of three, was released back onto the street after he left the scene of the accident, was caught. It's unbelievable what local law enforcement has to put up with.

But thankfully, he was apprehended by law enforcement has to put up with. Thankfully, he was apprehended by immigration enforcement and will be deported. But local law enforcement has their hands tied. It's comical to see people like Bill de Blasio, who was offering free Mets tickets, gift cards to incentivize people to return to court. He lent his support for this law. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'll tell you what it's going to take, and I don't like this, but what it's going to take, Bobby Chaconacon is a murder. That's finally when an innocent person loses their life at the hands of someone who walked straight out of jail without putting up bond and

got to just a revolving door like you just heard about. I guess those lives aren't enough, but it's going to take something like that before a change is made. And that's going to require the assembly to get together and come up with an idea and actually do something about it, Bobby. And I hate that, but I know that is the reality. Well, I think we may have already had that. There was a 92-year-old woman in New York that was killed by an individual, had just gotten out of jail for an incident of violence with his father. And I believe he was released under this law, and then he assaulted, and she wound up dying

of her injuries, a 92-year-old woman. And so, yeah, I think you're right. I think, but that's my point. I think there already is additional victims, and I think there will continue to be victims and it may be victims rights advocates that have to rally around and push back on this. But there's no doubt in my mind that there will be additional victims created by this law that would not be victimized if this law wasn't in place. And that's the real, that's the real sadness of this whole situation is that in, in an attempt to curry favor with a certain segment of the population, politicians are

sacrificing additional victims, counting on those victims not speaking up. In that case where there was a 92 year old female victim, it wasn't just an accident. She was also sex assaulted and murdered. Okay, let's just let that sink in for a moment. So Bobby Chacon, the case you're describing, the guy who just got out pursuant to the bail quote reform, sex assaulted a 92-year-old woman. Now, what's happening? Why isn't it being fixed? Because we know Cuomo, the governor of New York, just gave a speech and did not address it. And they keep putting perfume on the pig saying things like, oh, it needs to be twigged. I think it needs a tear down, okay, and a rebuild, an entire rebuild.

So when you described so quickly the 92-year-old woman, you left out the fact that this wasn't just, you know, oops, I accidentally hit her with my elbow and she fell on the ground and hit her head. No, he sex assaulted her and then murdered her after just walking out. I wonder if he's going to get Matt's tickets. Yeah, Nancy, and I think the original crime he was in jail for was an assault with his father. So these are not nonviolent offenders. They try to paint it that way. This is nothing more than pure politics. The law shouldn't be tweaked. Bail reform originally should have been tweaked. And I agree with Tina that I agree with that there are some aberrations of bail in the system. And we need to look at those and find ways to correct them. But this is a wholesale restructuring of the system. And it's nothing more than political pandering

to certain segments of the population that those politicians feel this sells well to their voters. This sells well. When I stand up there and I say, I cite one or two aberrations of stories that aren't the norm and try to make people believe those are the norm and then say, that's why I had to do this and I'm helping people. That's a political play to appeal to certain segments of their voter base. And that's all this is. They don't care about the victims because one 92-year-old woman who now is dead is not going to turn the election for them. But if they pander to their political base, then they're going to win the election.

Take a listen to our friends at ABC7. This is Kristen Thorne. Nassau County Executive Laura Curran says the county's public safety officials have been working hard to make sure the release of those 29 people today was orderly and safe. I have heard loud and clear the concerns from the community. I share those concerns, which is why we made sure that we crossed every T, dotted every every I to make sure this was done as smoothly as possible the reason I'm here today is because I know the people that letting back out onto the streets I work for these jails for over 20 years the hard-working men and women that work behind the walls of these

correctional facilities know just how dangerous the people are that are being let back into the communities our communities Senate Republicans are vowing to introduce legislation to counteract this law. This is what I know. When another person ends up dead, in addition to the 92-year-old woman, the blood of those is going to be on the government that allowed this bail, quote, reform act. I disagree with, for instance, misdemeanors such as, you know, a simple addict that has cocaine, Jason Oceans. I would do anything for them not to be behind bars. If

they didn't have a record, give them probation and counseling and, you know, 40 hours of community service. If it's a young guy, a young guy or a young woman who does something that's not violent, like, you know, jack a car, go joyriding or jack a car and sell it. That's not a violent crime. And I don't believe that first offender should be behind bars, shoplifting, theft of various types, pretty much white collar crimes, but nonviolent, non-endangering crimes. No, I really do not believe we need to have them behind bars. They need help. They need help to break out of the cycle that they're in. Because a lot of these people, and I know this for a fact, they don't know there is another way to live other than crime. And if they could see

that, maybe they could go straight. I'm talking about people that are a threat, Jason. Just tell me one more time, which crimes do people walk scot-free on? No bail, nothing. They sign up basically a ticket and walk out of the jailhouse doors. What crimes? Stalking as a hate crime. The list is, we'd be here for the next 40 minutes now. Stalking as a hate crime. Stalking as a hate crime. There's one. Stalking as a hate crime. We're talking about just the concept and the rise of it. You're stalking people based on race or religion. That's fine. Go back out. Just keep doing that relentlessly. You could terrorize a community. This was not intended. A bail reform was not intended to be this. It's as you've discussed it in a much more narrowed way. Not this. This was willy nilly. This was bad. It is bad. There's going to be blood on someone's hands soon. Final word, Bobby Chikun. Yeah. As we just pointed out, stalking is a hate crime right on its face.

It doesn't it isn't violent by definition, but it's what we call a precursor crime. You're stalking someone so that you can offend a more violent nature. You're stalking them to know their situation, to know their routine, so things like that. So it's absolutely horrendous, the amount of crimes that are covered. Stalking is a hate crime, is a precursor crime to another violent crime. You're preparing to commit a violent crime. And so this is an absolute horror show. Like you said, Nancy, there's going to be more victims. Like I've said, I know there are already more victims. There will be future victims that are victimized as a result of this law, not as a result of anything else other than this law. It's just the politicians don't care about those victims. They're not a voting bloc, and they're going to continue to pander to people that they can get up and fool and to say,

these are nonviolent people we're letting out. None of us would disagree with that, as you said earlier, but that's not the case. They're hiding it. They're lying about it. And the fact that so quickly now they're already admitting it needs to be tweaked just days into the new law says that it's very flawed at its core. This so-called reform is flawed at its core. It needs to be rescinded, and they need to have another strong look at things that can be used to tweak the system. To Tina Moore, New York Post.

Weigh in, Tina. I hate to admit it, but they should have talk to the people who understand that it's like the cops and the prosecutors, and they didn't. They didn't consult them when they made the law. And I think it needs, some changes need to be made, I think, from what I've seen. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.