Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "WE SEARCHED INTO THE NIGHT": DARIUS, 6, VANISHES ON FAMILY CAMPING TRIP

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

  Joining Nancy Grace today: Anne Bremner - Trial lawyer, Legal Analyst, and Author: “Justice in the Age of Judgment;" X: @annembremner, Instagram: @Anne_Bremner Caryn Stark - Forensic Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice Dr. Trace Sargent - Search, Rescue & Recovery Expert, PhD in Psychology (with a focus on victimology - criminal profiling - predator behaviors - crime scene analysis); Director of Forensic Investigations and Analysis Brian Fitzgibbons - Former Marine and Iraq War Veteran, Director of Operations for USPA Nationwide Security (leads a team of investigators specializing in locating missing persons); Instagram: @uspa_nationwide_security Stephen Tipper - Southern Alberta Reporter for Postmedia Dave Mack - Crime Stories Investigative Reporter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We searched into the night, says a desperate family after Little Darius, just six years old, vanishes on an extended family camping trip. How could a little six-year-old boy vanish into thin air? the adults were watching him play with other children. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. What was meant to be a peaceful family getaway in the wilderness of Alberta, Canada,

has turned into a devastating mystery. The McDougal family, eager to create lasting memories, was thrown into chaos when one of the young children wandered off. I have taken the children from a very young age all across the country. RVing and camping. I'm not sure how you lose a child on a camping trip, but it's happened a lot. This isn't the first time a child has gone missing on a camping trip. The parents, the grandparents, there was extended family or family friends there. They were all packing to leave and go back home. And, you know, when you're packing, packing up the RV or the station wagon or the S-U-

you turn your back, right? You're loading it up. Everything's running crazy. But how could a little boy vanish into thin air and be gone so quickly he can't be found? Okay, let's start at the beginning. Listen. Six-year-old Darius on a camping trip with dad, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, dad's girlfriend, Buffy, and her daughter, Kaya.

The family gathers to celebrate family birthdays camping in Crows Nest Passed with rivers, creeks, hiking areas, and small islands close to shore where the children love to play. Let me just start right there because I need to understand the terrain. Joining me an all-star panel, but I want to go first to Stephen Tipper, joining us from Post Media. Stephen, thank you for being with us. Could you just let me just start with the terrain where they were camping. Tell me about it.

Yeah, it's a very uneven terrain. I mean, lots of different kinds from, you know, level ground to a high level, you know, mountainous terrain. You know, there's bodies of water there. It's, you know, obviously in the rocky. So it's, you know, there's quite a varied, you know, a mixture of, I mean, that they were looking. Look at those trees, Stephen Tipper.

Stephen joining us, investigative reporter with Post Media. Check it out, Brian Fitzgibbon. Fitzgibbon's Director Operations, USPA, nationwide security, who leads a team of expert investigators specializing and finding missing people. Look at those trees, Brian. I mean, what I'm saying is a child gets lost in those trees. That's going to be really hard to find, even with dogs, even with cadets shoulder to shoulder. Did you see that picture we just showed Fitzgibbons?

Yeah, this is rugged terrain, Nancy, and you can see as the, you know, the thick forest, the dense forest there makes not only the search complicated, but for the six-year-old child who's missing, he's quickly disoriented once he's separated from his group. So, you know, this terrain is possibly some of the least ideal terrain for a search like this to take place. Fitz Gibbons, I worked as a hype master at teaching tree identification, believe it or not, in a national forest. I always had to carry a compass with me just in case you get disoriented like you were just saying in those trees where everywhere you look, everything looks the same. That happens. It's a phenomenon. Dr. Trace Sargent joining us, PhD in psychology, focus on victimology, and in a previous life, search rest, rescue recovery expert. It happens. It's a phenomena you get in those trees and they all seem to look alike and you get turned around and you don't know which way, where you came from or where you're trying to go if you don't have a compass, much less a six-year-old little boy.

That's absolutely right, Nancy. Children at this age don't have the capability and the maturity and the growth of their minds to understand where they are. How? to get back where they want to be. They become very disoriented. They become very frightened. Oftentimes they hide because that's a survival mechanism. Oftentimes they cover themselves up. They get underneath laws.

Not only the challenge of the terrain itself, but then you have this very, very small child in itself is going to be very difficult to see even in the best of circumstances. And to Karen Stark joining us, forensic psychologists, Renowned TV radio trauma expert at Karen Stark.com. Karen, okay, just for a moment, don't think about the little six-year-old. Think about the family when they realize he's gone. And I'm still, I got to get back with Stephen Tipper about this.

I still don't get how they're camping. They see him playing with the other children. They're packing. They turn around. He's gone. I'm trying to figure out that timeline. But think about them suddenly looking for him, Karen. And they're upset and emotional.

And they're going into the trees and everybody's disseminating. And it's basically all HEWL breaks loose. Without a doubt, because how can you not be so upset? This is a six-year-old. Their child, their grandchild, their relative and friends. And everybody is searching for this little boy. They would be in a complete panic, Nancy. You would be, I would be.

What can happen anything? Well, you know, put Karen to strike up, please. Karen, you and I talked after this happened, and this is just a very small, very small comparison. I've told you when John David, about John David, when he was, before he was three. And we were in that giant, baby super store, and I was down crouched down trying to find organic sunscreen. Anyway, I stood up, I turned around, there was Lucy, no John David. Remember, I picked Lucy up like a football and started running and screaming to lock the doors up front. that my son was missing.

Now that you're talking, I've never thought about this before, but everything else seemed to be a blur, like a dark, gray, reddish blur all around me except for clutching Lucy and running to those front doors. I don't even know why I was running toward the front doors. I guess to try to stop the doors from opening and somebody taking him out. Little did I know he was playing hide and seek with Mommy and was a few rows away, but it took a minute to find him. But when you say they get disoriented, that can happen because you're so focused, tunnel vision on where is he? You're not thinking about what's happening around you.

And they're like, as you described Nancy in suspended animation in a way, because you really don't know what to do. You're not aware of what you're doing. Your heart is stopped. You can't breathe. And you're just panicking. How can you not? That's exactly what. happen with you and John David. I'm trying to figure out, though, how he could get away, Karen Stark. And just like that, as a matter of fact, I want you to hear these facts before we analyze any further tonight. Where is this six-year-old little boy?

How did he just vanish into thin air? Listen to this. As the family's packing up to head home, Darius, Kaya, and a cousin are on a small island directly across from the camping area in clear view of the adults. The children turn their back for a second and Darius is gone. Father and grandfather immediately begins searching going different directions on the small island to cover the entire area planning to find Darius before they meet in the middle. Stephen Tipper joining us, investigative reporter with Post Media.

Stephen, again, thank you for being with us tonight. Stephen, I'm still trying to nail down exactly what happened. And I'm not saying it didn't happen just like they're describing it. I remember when Samantha Runyon went missing, she was with her grandma and grandma was at, I think, the kitchen sink looking out into the front yard where Samantha three was playing with some other children and a guy comes up and takes her out of the front yard just like that. And before grandma can get out there, he was gone, 60 MPH. So it can happen just like that. But I need to understand the Runyon case. Explain to me again. How did this happen?

Yeah. So, I mean, they were packing up and getting ready to leave, as you say. And I mean, you know, they just turn their backs. That's what the family says. And he was gone. You know, Darius is autistic. He doesn't like loud noises or bright lights. And that kind of did affect the search. You know, the searchers did avoid those kinds of things. things that they avoided making loud noises or bright lights during the search. Stephen, I don't understand that. I do not understand how can you avoid loud noises and lights during a search. You've got to call out for the boy, maybe on a loud speaker, maybe, you know, as it got

darker, I'm sure that they were using bright lights. How were they avoiding loud sounds and bright lights in searching for him? Right. I mean, I mean, to the best of the rabbits, I'm sure that they were doing that. There were some sounds that he found appealing as well. He had a favorite song that they would use extensively during the search. They didn't say what that song was, but certainly, you know, there were efforts to try and appeal to Therius. Stephen, I see what you're saying.

Would that be soothing to him, Karen Stark? they were trying to play his favorite maybe it was a lullaby they haven't told us what the song was trying to find him and lure him out I think that that was a brilliant idea Nancy because children who are artistic they don't necessarily respond to calling you their name sometimes they're afraid sometimes they're distracted and yet they need to be able to reach him so playing his favorite song that might be something that he could respond to. They get easily distracted. That happens all the time. They're impulsive.

And they get scared. Any little child will get stared. But if you're artistic, you're particularly scared. Frightened. You're in the forest. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Joining me now, high profile Seattle lawyer, Ann Bremner. This is her neck of the wood.

She's a veteran trial lawyer, legal analyst, author of Justice in the Age of Judgment. Ann Bremner, I'm going to thank you for being with us. When we were just describing, there was Stephen Tipper talking about it from Post Media and Karen Stark about playing the music. All I can think about, Anne, is as I still call him, Anne, you haven't seen him in a couple of years, but John David is six, six now, but I still think of him as little Lucy and baby John David. And I can just, all I can do is think about baby John David out in that forest. And I'm trying to play his favorite lullaby or song to lure him out. And aunt, a lot of people have been attacking the family and the parents. And I really believe that

is uncalled for. Just like when I was in the super store, I was down on a floor level shelf trying to find organic suntan lotion. And I wasn't staring right at John David for a good 30 seconds to a minute. He had on those little tennis shoes and he ran several aisles away. It happens that the best parents have to load the car. The best parents have to load the car. The best parents, you know, go in the kitchen to turn off the lady peas. I mean, I don't, and another thing, Ann Brimner, regarding the attacks on the family, for one of the family members to have been, let's just put it out there, to be responsible for his disappearance, what, is there a big conspiracy and all the other family members

are lying about it, not telling what they know? I find that hard to believe that other family members are covering up for one family member that was either negligent or intentionally vindictive or evil. I don't believe it. Well, Nancy, it's such an honor and a pleasure to be on with you again. And that's brilliant. I mean, you're right. I mean, how could everybody there conspire to cover up, you know, a disappearance that was

something that was caused by one person? I mean, that's just something that's going to be so difficult to stumble for anybody. And so the other thing isn't, like you said, when someone's going through something that's traumatic, like when you lost John David, God forbid, for a short period of time, why did the pile on it? You know, I think they're having to stop their comments on social media because people are attacking them. You know, just kicking them when they're down. They're trying to find their loved one. And, you know, I live in a state that's got a lot of mountains and a lot of mostly trees in Washington State

perj trees and people get lost, adults too. Okay, Ann Bramner, you're a veteran trial lawyer and you got to give me more than that. You would never stand in front of an appellate court where you've been many times or a trial judge where you've been even more times and say, hey, it happens. I need to understand how it happened because we all used Mark Class as the gold standard. Right. When his daughter, Polly, went missing and police came to him. his door, the parents were separated and said, hey, your daughter's missing. He said, fine. Take my

fingerprints. Look at my house. Go to my office. Look at my car. We'll do whatever you have to do so you, LA law enforcement, can move on to find my daughter and who took her. And they did. And he was cooperative. These parents have been completely cooperative, but a lot of people online are stuck on the parents. Now, let's analyze why it's not this. the family. Well, yeah. I mean, the bottom line is that why would they, why would they do this? You know, what's the motive? And where do you go? I mean, where's the evidence that somehow they secreted him someplace? Now, that's important because you and I both learned and not to say why, you know, why would anybody kill their child? Why? There is no good why. But that's a good point.

A, go where? Where are you going to go? Your whole family's there. Your vehicles are there. Where are you going to hide the child? And B, you would have to believe the entire group was covering for one of the perps, i.e. the mom or dad. That simply is not feasible. Okay, listen to this. Searching the island and screaming his name, Daria seems to have vanished into thin air. 911 is called. And within 20 minutes, a command post is set up and organized searches by the RCMP search and rescue begin.

The weather is in our favor. A young man does not suffer from any health issues. There is no reason to believe that there will not be a positive outcome. Global news. Six-year-old Darius McDougal, known for his infectious laughter and playful spirit, joined his father and sister's girlfriend on a camping trip. They met up with family, ready to create cherished memories. But amidst the joy, an unthinkable event was about to on.

unfold. Straight out to Stephen Tipper, joining us investigative reporter, post-media. Could you explain to me who all was on this camping trip? They were there celebrating multiple birthdays. Who was there? Yes, so Darry's father, his grandfather, grandmother, the father's girlfriend, and her daughter were there,

as well as various aunts and uncles and cousins were all there. You know, to Karen Stark joining us, forensic psychologist, many people, and I'm not agreeing with them, but I want to address it with you. Many people are attacking the family saying they just got tired of dealing with an autistic child. I find that vile to say the parents didn't care about him because he's autistic or they had just reach their limit. So what? They killed him? I'm not buying into that at all. Could you please address that? Well, you know, that's what happens in these days. It's really terrible where people

start attacking somebody, especially under these circumstances. They're traumatized by the loss of their child. And I think that it's just so easy to attack someone without understanding how difficult it is to deal with a child who's autistic. You could keep your eye on them all the time and blink and they'd be gone. They are distracted so easily. They can't help it. And they're impulsive. They run away. They're sensitive. Every noise could bother them. So it takes an incredible amount of work. And to blame the family for any of this is so sad, Nancy. It's a said that that keeps happening, too, don't you think? Well, you know, I get the feeling of some of the blamers, you know, to Ann Bremner, high-profile

lawyer joining us out of Seattle. And I think that for a lot of people, it feels better to have somebody to blame because you're like, I think I know what it is actually, and I'm going to ask our shrinks about this. You think, oh, the family wasn't watching him. That's how he got away. That's why he's missing because it makes you feel safer. Because in your mind, you're like, well, I would never do that. You know, you can extrapolate this in Brimmer.

For instance, whenever, let's just think about Molly Tibbitts or Carina. There's so many. When women are out jogging and they get attacked and or murdered, naysay or say or say, oh, well, why was she jogging alone? Or why was she jogging at night? or why was she jogging in a jogging bra? I mean, you can just feel in the blame because it makes you feel better,

makes you feel safe because you can say, well, I would never do that. I wonder if people just need somebody to blame, but that's really not helping the search effort. No, but you're so right on, like, Shaden Freud and then, like, looking at something like this, like, why does so many people like to, you know, watch and learn about true crime?

It's the same thing. I don't want it to happen to me. It must have been something. It must have been a jogging bra. It must have been where they went at night. It must have been anything to look at and to blame. And finally, you know, with social media these days, you know, everybody's commenting on all these cases. And they're like, oh, well, I figure the parents did it.

You know, all the kind of things we never really saw before when you see everything on Twitter and Facebook and TikTok and everything else. He's conspiracy theorists and those that want to blame families and blame people involved in a tragedy. let these cases get, you know, investigated in due course. Then we'll know what the real situation is. Well, there's another issue there, though, Anne Remner, because Fitzgibbons, joining me, Brian Fitzgibbons from USPA, National Mind Security, Brian, the statistics are when a child goes missing or is killed.

Overwhelmingly, it's someone close to the child. The parents, the auntie, the next-door neighbor, I'm moving out now, the neighbor, some weird teacher that has a fixation on the child, but typically within the family. So there is that statistic. That doesn't make it true here, but that statistic is looming. The numbers don't lie about that, Nancy. That is for sure.

And in this case, it's not, you know, I'll disagree, you know, with the previous comment. You know, this is not a conspiracy. it's not out of the ordinary, you know, this group was isolated camping, so no one else effectively was nearby them or knew who this boy was. So for the public to show a tremendous amount of concern that it was, you know, had something to do with the parents, it doesn't surprise me. I'm not saying that they did. It just does not surprise me. Guys, I just want to give you a tip line really quickly. 303-562-2866 repeat 403-562-2866 so the search is on initially you go from a point last scene and you can expand your radius from there we rely on our search and rescue experts for that there are two small rivers that are also in play there's a large bog that we continue to search and some fairly

steep, rugged, forested terrain. From our friends at Global News, straight back out to you, Stephen Tipper. What is he describing a large bog? Right. I mean, that was among the bodies of water that were searched more than once during the 11 days that they were looking for theirs.

It was, you know, there were extensive resources obviously pulled in and, you know, that was among them, the areas that were searched. Dr. Trace Sargent joining us, Ph.D. in psychology, but also previously search, rescue recovery expert. My understanding of what a bog is is like a freshwater marsh. It's spongy quicksand, would be overstating it, but mushy earth. kind of like mud, I would say, with some growth in it, such as reeds or cattails. That's how I picture bog. Very difficult to search in, but also I'm wondering if a little boy, like this little boy,

can get in that and get into the bog and perish in the bog. It's kind of like a soft, spongy accumulation of dirt, clay, plant, right? Yeah, so the bog itself is exactly as you describe Nancy. And looking at the clips of the search area, it's really extremely difficult to find this child in those kind of conditions. And now you add the bombs, the water, and just really extremely extraordinary different, difficult circumstances.

It's really going to take all types of resources to find this child from dogs to helicopters, searchers, drones, ATVs, even horse bats, voters, every kind of resource is going to be needed to find this child and this extremely difficult search conditions and the terrain that they're working under. Well, the search and rescue volunteers mount to over 400 people, listen. More than 400 search and rescue volunteers from 50 teams of the search for Darius. These volunteers contributed to 11,000 hours of search effort on the ground. They were joined by 60 members of the RCMP Specialized Tactical Support Group that were directly involved in searching for Darius.

The search extended up to 12 kilometers from where Darius was last seen. The distance traveled by ground search assets inside that 22 square kilometers, on-field tasks was more than 5,300 kilometers. The search extended up to 12 kilometers from where Darius was last seen. The distance traveled by ground search assets inside that 22 square kilometers, on-field tasks, was more than 5,300 kilometers. Bridge City News. Just across the creek, Darius was playing with other children near the campsite, and the adults were keeping a watchful eye.

But in a single fleeting moment of distraction, little Darius vanished. Joining me now, Crime Stories, investigative reporter on the case, Dave Mac. Dave, let me understand what I'm just hearing. So the little boy, Darius, is on the other side of a river or a source. stream playing on an island? What? Yeah, it's, Nancy, the camping area actually is right on the water. And you're talking about an area that has, it does have creeks and streams and ponds. In this particular case, you've got a creek. And it's not a big distance. It's right there, maybe 20, 30 yards, Nancy. And they can see the children playing on this little island.

Now, as a parent, when your children are with other children, we tend to, feel a little bit safer in what's taking place, goal safety and numbers. And while they're packing up, they're all keeping an eye on the children. It's not just one parent's child. It's multiple parents and family members that are watching after these children that are playing in a confined area. That's the shocking part of all of this is that they were right there. And the children are the ones that said, we turned our back and he was gone. Friends and family create a Facebook page. Bring Darius McDougal home. the family posts their first message to the public. In the post, they explain arriving at the

campsite on Friday with the extended family members together and celebrate what they call a few birthdays. As the adults packed to go home, the kids were playing on the island adjacent the camp, just across the creek where the adults could see them. Darius, Kaya, and a cousin were walking, playing together with other kids close by. They turned their backs and Darius was gone. Okay, granted, it doesn't make sense to me. They turned their back. And now he's gone. Stephen Tipper, I'm not saying that's not correct. I'm just trying to understand so I can piece together some semblance of a timeline because

nobody can just vanish like that when you turn your back and you turn back around. There had to be some intervening time period, something. What are you learning? I mean, there's been literally, but it's been. you know, given to us by the family other than the public statement that they made this week, you know, and the RCP said that they were, they received a call at 11.30 on that Sunday morning and, you know, of a missing boy. There's, you know, that's, you know, the call came in about after an hour after

the family had begun their search for Darius. You know, Anne Bremner, right there, they waited an hour to call 911. I also do not find that disturbing. And I'll tell you why, unlike a child that goes missing from their own home, when the child is supposed to be asleep and you go in the next morning and they're gone, this is a lot different because they're out camping. They started looking for him first. and then when they couldn't find him, they call 911.

I don't find that unusual, Ann Brimner, not at all. Yeah, I don't either, Nancy. I mean, the fact is that they're thinking, well, he's got to be here somewhere. I mean, you know, he was just here with everybody and everyone just found. And so they look, I think an hour is not extreme. I mean, the fact is they might have looked for him for more than an hour, you know, being satisfied they could find him. But I won't tell you a problem I do have, Ann.

control if you could go back to those pictures of the forest where the searchers are gathered I don't understand looking at this picture how where he was he was across from them on an island and but they could see him and I have also a problem with the time not the hour that they search for him I get that but I still am not buying into they he was there and they turned their back and then he was gone that's like three seconds so what really happened were they playing hide and go seek and he was hiding and then he was gone just i'm not the timeline is concerning to me let me look at that how can you say he was there i turned my back i turned around he was gone that part's not making sense to me but let's hear

from the mom as a mother who is very concerned about her son i'm pleading with my entire being if anyone knows or seen anything tell the police anything from september 21st till now in the closes past air that can help please keep sharing darius's photo on social media the update so that his beautiful face is out there we've just exhausted all search tactics we there's just nothing else for us to search at this time but there's nothing to indicate foul play is involved Okay, she's saying that's Corporal Gina Slaney. She's saying there is nothing to indicate foul play is involved. So then where is he?

Guys, that's from our friends at Bridge City News and CBC. Brian, that seems inconsistent to me. Yeah, that is inconsistent, right? Because if you knew that if you could rule out that there was no foul play, we would either have found Darius or we would have found evidence of, what may have transpired, right? So it's impossible to rule out foul play here, in my opinion. How does a little, yeah, how can he just right off the bat rule out foul play?

How did they get to that, Brian? Yeah, it seems, it's kind of a whitewashing statement. There's no way to say that definitively, right? So I would have to assume or I'd like to assume that there is an on, ongoing investigation here, given that Darius has not been found and nobody has been recovered, that the police are still interviewing and speaking with this, particularly the children that were supposedly on that walk with it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

You know, I'm just trying to figure out again, regarding. this terrain. Crohnest Pass. Is it heavily camped? Are there a lot of campers, hikers, travelers there, Stephen? Yes, for sure. I mean, there are several campgrounds in the area. I mean, it is a popular spot to go camping in the Rockies there. But yeah, I mean, there are, you know, lots of people enjoy going to that area during the summer and the fall. And, yeah, so it's a, I mean, it's a picturesque spot, you know, to spend a weekend away, kind of. So, yeah, it's, it's pretty popular. Okay, Fitzgibbens, think this through with me for just one moment.

We keep referring to this as a remote area, but the town itself has about 5,700 in population. But wait for this. According to the Atlas, around 300,000 people visit or walking through Crow's Nest every year. Put up his givings, please. So it's not like the family is out there all by themselves, right? You ever heard the name Israel Keys? Is that ringing a bell? He was one of the most prolific serial killers in the U.S. ever? And he went under the radar, but one place he liked to stalk his victims, national parks, RV camps, people that were camping in tents, he loved it. And he spoke of it. And his words were matched up with actual victims that prior to his speaking had been unsolved homicides.

So this is like a stalker, a predator's, happy hunting ground. What do you think about that? 300,000 strangers a year? Hey, could be. And certainly for transients and, you know, serial killers, folks with nefarious intentions, these places that have, have very limited control, campgrounds and things like that, are hunting grounds for them.

So, you know, is there a possibility that Darius was separated from his group and was abducted? Certainly. There's enough people there to make that possible, and it's isolated enough to make the search very difficult. So this is really the worst of a lot of potential scenarios here. The search for Darius includes volunteers and experts alike. Ground personnel were supported by helicopters, drones, dogs, horses, boat-mounted sonar, swift water rescue, and underwater search teams. It is a massive operation involving multiple agencies.

The search and rescue teams covered 13 square miles over rough terrain and found no clothing, no footprints, no signs of Darius were found. Two volunteer teams of cadaver dogs also searched the area and detected no trace of Darius. No, no. This is really not fitting together now. To Dr. Trace Sargent, you don't have a shoe, clothing, a toy, nothing, and cadaver dogs search and don't find anything? What people don't realize, you know, our end goal with all these resources is to find areas. But what is just as important is using all these resources to eliminate areas to say, you know what, we don't know where Darius is, but we can say definitively he's not here, which actually helps move the investigation forward and even answer some of those questions that many people have.

Yeah, what about it, Fitzgibbons? Not only do they fail to find any trace of him, like a toy he had, a shoe, a sock, clothing, a shirt. they also don't get a hit from any of the cadaver dogs. So where is he? Either he's there hiding alive, or he's been completely removed from the area, or those cadaver dogs would have hit on him even in a bog. Yeah, you would think, Nancy.

And remember, this is a six-year-old boy. Okay, he's not going to cover that much terrain by foot. And you had police searching rescue groups. There were upwards of 400 individuals involved by the seventh day of this search. They were in line on a grid search, okay, shoulder to shoulder. You know, you had helicopters, thermal imaging drones, people on horseback. You had swift teams, boat teams searching riverbeds and where the swift waters were. so there was a very extensive search that took place here they've narrowed down and said some of these areas he's definitely not in no sign of him in there okay so now you're thinking was there animal activity there is a high bear population here what could happen there would we find something I don't know you would still hit with a cadaver dog though you would still hit with that dog yeah if that were the case if a bear or creature had gotten him we would still have a cadaver dog hit you know I

The only thing there is, you know, he could be taking miles and miles away outside of that grid. That would be the only piece there. By a creature? Because a creature is not going to take a boy miles and miles away. A person would, but not a creature. A creature would stop to eat its victim, not miles and miles and miles away. It would go back to its lair and eat the victim. At worst, I believe, from what I've learned,

in past cases that the creature, the imaginary creature, would eat the victim before it got to its lair. A human would absolutely take the child miles and miles away. So where are you going with that? No, I'm saying that, you know, it's conceivable that a bear could carry its victim quite some distance. So there's that and also, you know, what we brought up before, you know, if there was nefarious play here and there was a human moving him, you know, then that's quite, quite possible. Yeah. And if a human moved him, we would get a scent dog hit. You remember when Lacey Peterson

was taken? Well, that was her, that was her body. But a cadaver dog followed her scent all the way from her home on Covina in Modesto all the way to the San Francisco Bay Marina. Okay. So a regular scent dog would have picked up on him. But then there's another shock to the family. In another shock to the family of Darius, Kaya Warrior, the six-year-old playing with Darius at the time he went missing, has now passed away at Children's Hospital from a medical emergency. Investigators say her death was not criminal and not related to Darius' disappearance. Kaya Warrie's was the daughter of Dallas McDougall's girlfriend, Buffy. They were on the camping trip with Dallas and Darius and participated in the search.

Ann Bremner, high-profile Seattle defense lawyer, I've said a million times. There is no coincidence in criminal law. But we're being told the girlfriend who was on the trip with her boyfriend, Darius's father, when Darius goes missing, now her child, Kyah also six years old playing with Darius at the time he goes missing

she's dead what no you're right there are no coincidences in criminal law Nancy you're exactly right and as you old saying lightning doesn't strike twice I mean it's when I saw that I thought

if I were the prosecutor I'd be paying a lot more attention to this case the search is still on for six year old Darius. Where is he? There's no sign that he's dead. Hence, we are left to believe Darius is alive somewhere. If you know or think you know anything about this child, think of your own children at this tender age. Please dial 403-562-2866. Repeat. Now, we remember an American hero, firefighter, Isabella Oskerson, Idaho Department Land.

Just 26 killed in the line of duty, leaving behind her grieving parents, Kelvin and Kathleen. American hero, firefighter, Isabella Oskerson. Nancy Grace, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an IHeart podcast.