Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - What 2017 revealed about missing beauty queen Tara Grinstead

Episode Date: December 29, 2017

Tara Grinstead's disappearance in 2004 remained a complete mystery until two arrests were made in March 2017. Nancy Grace, who has closely followed the beauty queen/high school teacher's case since the beginning, reviews what we now know and may yet learn with Dr. Maurice Godwin, a private detective and forensic psychologist. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. On Saturday, October 22nd, 2005, Terry Grinstead went missing from her residence. As the hours turned into days, days into weeks, weeks into months, and eventually months into years, the search efforts never ceased. A few days ago, an individual came forward and reported that they had information into Tara's disappearance. Enough probable cause was discovered, so we could swear out an arrest warrant

charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder of Tara Grinstead. We always believed that it would be solved. We just did not know when. A gorgeous high school teacher suddenly just disappears. And not only is she literally a beauty queen, she's brilliant. Already gotten her master's and on track to get her PhD as well. But then it's just the oddest thing. Out of the blue, she just seemingly disappears off the face of the earth. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. When I met Tara Grinstead's mother, the pain just emanating from her, the sorrow, the questions, her quiet suffering spoke volumes to me.

She walked me through Tara's home, and I've said this before, it looked like a little jewelry box. It was so perfect. It was like she had gotten a Ballard Design magazine and done it all herself, but I knew with the pearls broken on the bedroom floor, a lamp askew, and then literally a broken bedpost, that Tara was gone and Tara would not come back. It was a missing persons case to start with, but that quickly took a different track to homicide. Why it has remained a mystery for so many years in the little town of Osceola and beyond. It's because the guy finally arrested had just been a student at the school where Tara taught. No real connection between them. What went down the night Tara Grinstead disappeared?

Another clue we had was her car. She is neat, Nick. And her car was always, you know, there's people, Alan, that the car looks brand new, it even smells new. Have you ever seen those people? Not me, of course. Yeah. And I've always been astounded and amazed and perplexed by them. But Tara was a neatnik.

Her car was always perfect. But when the cops looked at her car after she goes missing, they find it covered in mud. And the driver's seat pushed back to accommodate a tall person. And it was left that way. That's not right, Alan. I mean, that just really starts it. How does the story unfold? Still no justice yet in the case of Tara Grinstead.

You know what, Alan? Let's just start at the beginning, okay? Joining me is an expert in the Tara Grinstead disappearance. It's Dr. Maurice Godwin. Dr. Maurice Godwin actually was hired by Tara's family to get to the bottom of her disappearance. We know that one arrest has been made, an arrest of someone nobody expected, a student of hers, about two or three years before she went missing. But this case is far from over. Let's go back, Dr. Godwin, and review what we know to be true as we still search for Terry Grinstead and whoever may have been involved in her disappearance. Dr. Godwin, take me back to the day she went missing. What happened?

She had some girls over because during pageantry, the pageant stuff and everything, and trying to coach the kids and stuff and how to be in beauty pageants, the makeup, the hair. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. That is an ordeal grande. So she was mentoring these young girls, right? That's right. So during the day on October 22nd, that Saturday, she had some girls over to her home. And they were doing hair and makeup for preparation for a beauty pageant that night, that Saturday night in Fitzgerald. She was going to the beauty pageant also, the Miss Sweet Potato pageant.

And so she conversed with several people there. I'm a little shocked. I've got two producers in the room with me, and one is actually laughing when you said Miss Sweet Potato. And I really resent that, Jackie. I've never disagreed with you before. And I'll tell you why. That's a lot of hard work.

And people pass off these contestants as dumb bunnies. That is so not true. You go try to squeeze into a size two swimsuit and answer difficult questions about politics and geography good luck mommy okay well she was doing it for our scholarship money yes that's right and that's that's really the only reason there i hope you heard that jackie okay just stop gesticulating at me okay back to dr god Dr. Godwin. Go ahead. I mean, that was the only reason, really, she was doing the scholarship money. And so she went to Fitzgerald, and she left about 730. One of the girls that was at the pageant named Dana, she walked with Tara out to Tara's car. And despite other reports and stuff, a few recent reports in the last six months,

Tara was in good spirits, and Tara told her that she had to go to her boss's barbecue. Right. Was it the school principal or the superintendent of schools? It was the superintendent of the school, the county, yes. Did he refuse to take a DNA test? Yes. He refused? Yeah, he refused, but they got it anyhow.

How'd they get it? They would never tell me. You know what? It's so easy to get DNA. He refused. Yeah, he refused. But they got it anyhow. How'd they get it? They would never tell me. But they... You know what? It's so easy to get DNA. You know, you watch somebody at a restaurant. The minute they get up, you go get their glass. Bam!

That's right. Done. They got DNA from him. You know, that left him under a cloud of suspicion because he refused to give DNA. But as it turns out, he had absolutely nothing to do with this. That's correct. I interjected. Go ahead.

But he was... I mean, I had him on my radar for a long time and he refused to talk to me in 06. But anyway, she went to his barbecue arriving about eight o'clock p.m. and she had a good time. She was chatting and stuff. And she, during that time at the barbecue, she received a number of phone calls. Wait a minute. Did she arrive and leave alone? Yes. Okay. She arrived at eight o'clock p.m. Some of the phone calls they claimed were pageant girls calling her to thank her and everything. But about 10, 20, she received a phone call. And that was the detective from Perry, Georgia. He still had a crush on her? Yeah, they weren't seeing each other. Anyway,

they said the goodbyes and she said, I love you, too. That was at 1020. So she left around 11 o'clock. And it's 0.7 tenths of a mile from that house to her house. She so this is what i know i know that she was a neat freak and i know that on her her vehicle when they when police looked at it after she was reported missing it was covered in mud yeah and she would never have done that and that the driver's seat had been pushed back which all you ladies ladies, you know what I mean. It is so irritating. You get in your car and your husband or some guy has been in it. And I can't even, I'm only 5'1". I can't even touch the gas.

Okay. So they noticed that immediately. She lived alone. So who else that evening had driven her car and gotten it filthy? There were items in her vehicle that you would expect to be stolen if somebody had taken a joyride or tried to steal it. A $100 bill. Yeah.

In the center console. And not only that, in her bedroom, there were reportedly a string of pearls on the floor that had been broken, and there was an injury to one of the posts on her bed. Yeah, I found that. Oh, you were the one that found that? Please describe that for me. Surprisingly, I was down on the floor crawling.

She had the old-timey wooden floor. Right, I remember. And they were varnished and stuff. But I was down on the floor crawling. I saw the bed at the end on the side she slept was split right in two, and the piece was laying in the middle of the bed. Oh, my stars. I mean, under the bed, in the middle of the side she slept was split right in two and the piece was laying in the middle of the bed oh my stars i mean under the bed in the middle of the floor under the bed also under there was a big a whole box full of letters and everything from her ex-boyfriend

marcus and it had some dust on it i'm not sure why gbi didn't collect any of that you know also a lamp was askew a lampshade was askew. And she would... Let me just say something about that because it's more than the lampshade being askew. The actual plastic lamp socket, the bulb socket where it's screwed into, was actually broke and completely bent to the right and broken. And that plastic piece was found... I found it under the bed. You know, it's amazing that you found all this and police didn't.

So let me understand another fine point here. The bedpost that was broken and the piece of it was under the bed, was it near the lamp, the broken lamp? No, no, it was at the foot. Was it on the same side? Yeah. So it seems as if the struggle may have started at the, the struggle, whether it started, was between the bedpost and the lamp on the same side that she slept on. That's right.

As if she may have been getting into bed and then a struggle ensued in the bedroom. That's correct. You know, I went down there and looked all over town, searched everything I could, went through her house, went through her house went through her yard oh speaking of her yard dr godwin what was found in her yard about 10 feet from the concrete front porch as you walk directly out of the front door laying right on the edge in pine straw and the grass was a flesh color white a latex one. And if you go back and look at original photographs from the GBI, from all that glove and stuff, if you go back and look at it, the glove just wasn't laying on top of the pine straw.

Somebody had pulled back the pine straw. And, you know, under a new pine straw on the top is dark brown, black type pine straw. Somebody had pulled that back some to almost to the ground. The glove was laying in a little valley. So it just didn't fall out and land on the pine straw. There was a little pull out area where somebody had taken their fingers and raked it back a little bit. And that glove was laying in there. And they did DNA analysis on that. And it came back to a full DNA profile, a white male.

But the problem is... And they never knew who the white male was? No, over 11 years, they entered it into CODIS, they entered into Georgia DNA data, and it never got a hit. Okay, hold on. Before I get to the very most recent, how did you get involved in the case? One of the dog hounders that was working in 05, he and I had worked in the Drew Sheldon case out of South Dakota, North Dakota, and he knew me and everything. So he told Tara's sister, Anita, about me. And she contacted me in the first of February of 06. And I didn't take the case because I was busy. She contacted me about three weeks later, and I took the case,

and then I went down in March of 06. So you were contacted then by Tara Grinstead's family. What were you able to uncover? And it's amazing to me, and this is no slight against your skills, which are actually renowned, but it's amazing to me that cops didn't find the splintered bedpost piece and the broken lamp piece. I mean, to me, that's very significant. Well, there was also, she was studying to get into the PhD program, so she had one of those thick GRE books.

Right. Okay, that was laying on the floor under the edge of the bed and it had dust on it. That was still there. I'm just soaking all this in. How did they miss it all, doctor? I don't know. The rug beside her bed, I pulled it up. Now, you know, it had been like four months, but the thing is, I pulled the rug up and the rubber backing, a lot of it pulled off. It was stuck to that varnished floor. So it had never been pulled up with me is dr maurice godwin a doctor

whose specialty is forensics and psychology he was actually employed hired by tara grinstead's family to get to the truth of what happened to their beautiful girl a pageant beauty queen and brainy as well a beauty queen turned history teacher seeking her PhD who went to college based on beauty pageant scholarship money. Yes, she dated several people in her local town of Osceola, Georgia, but all that ended when she disappeared after a school barbecue. What happened to Tara Grinstead? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

And of course, I'm so grateful to not only Dr. Godwin for being with us, but you being here with us on our program. And I want to thank our partner. It is linkakc.com. Guys, you know how much I love our family dog, Fat Boy, a.k.a. Nitro. I'm always looking for new things to try with him, whether it's food, fun shoe toy, a treat, or now an amazing new collar. And it's called Link AKC. It's so much more than a collar. It's backed by the American Kennel Club.

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I want to get back to Dr. Maurice Godwin. Dr. Godwin, so years pass, and I think everybody really looked at Marcus the boyfriend. They had a very volatile relationship. He was a cop. He had a certain degree of power in town. You know, cops certainly know where to hide a body and there's no shortage. You know, within an hour, two hours of Osceola, there is thousands of acres of swampland, waterways, you name it. Everyone kind of suspected him because that's just the way of the world.

Statistics show when a woman is murdered or goes missing it's very likely her partner her ex husband boyfriend her partner and so he naturally came under suspicion boy was everybody wrong then what happened dr godwin well there was also um the person the detective she was seeing too so he was a he was a suspect that's right the guy from perry georgia and he was the last one that we know talked to her on the phone that night that's right oh no when she got back home that night she she just disappeared and the glove was found out there and the gbi i mean what happened was is she didn't show up monday morning at work and so the the elderly couple next door he was a councilman, so he had the

chief's cell phone number in his cell phone. So he called the chief of Osceola and he came over there and Joe had a key to the house. So he went in and didn't see anything and he came back out and that and Joe saw the glove laying on the the pine straw like the chief said back then are you trying to find a needle in the haystack we don't even know where the haystack is dr marie scotwin finally led to a very recent arrest after years passing i imagine her parents had just about given up because when i met with her mom, her mom looked so burdened. And so, I mean, she's a lovely lady. I guess that's where Tara got her good looks.

But she just, her demeanor was just so, like she was carrying the weight of the world on her shoulders. Well, I think it played a role in her health going down. Oh, yeah, definitely. You know, people say that you can die of a broken heart and i don't think that's altogether wrong now medical doctors will disagree with you but frankly what do they know back to the break in the case i did not see this coming i did not of course i assume that you should look at her current students. You know, I just assume.

Well, I can tell you what myself in 015, I was on a national show on this and Anita was on there, too. And I made a comment about the GBI said after 10 years, you're going to have to change your strategy. You're going to have to do something, you know, until they arrested Ryan and had that one press conference that there was never any press conference about Tara at all in 11 years. That's amazing to me. I know. I know. And you never I said, you need to change your strategy.

So when I got back home. Hold on just a moment, Dr. Dr. Murray's Godwin with me. Listen to that announcement. On Saturday, October 22nd, 2005, Tara Grinstead went missing from her residence. The Osceola Police Department responded to her residence. Immediately, they suspected foul play. Additional law enforcement resources were requested. The Irwin County Sheriff's Office and the GBI Came in and began a search at Tara's house. The troubling thing when you're working an investigation into a

missing persons case is that there's generally very little evidence. Tara's home was searched extensively for several days, which produced little physical evidence. As with all missing person cases, the investigation started focusing on Tara's close friends and associates. Tara was very well known in this community and well liked in her community, so she had many contacts and friends in various parts of the community. As the hours turned into days, days into weeks, weeks into months, and eventually months into years, the search efforts never ceased. Through these 11 plus years, the GBI and other law enforcement officers have received hundreds

and hundreds of tips. The GBI handles unsolved cases in the same manner we handle our active investigations. All open files are reviewed every couple of months. That way we do not let, we do not have cold cases. Each and every tip that came in was vetted and checked against what we had already done in this investigation. Interviews were conducted, searches were executed, multiple DNA samples were collected. Each lead was thoroughly exhausted. Unfortunately, all of these leads ended with a dead end until the last couple of days. A few days ago, an individual came forward and reported that they had information

into Tara's disappearance. This information made it to my office, and our case agent, Jason Shadel, was sent out to conduct an interview. This interview generated several more interviews, which was followed up by the rest of our office here. Through these interviews, enough probable cause was discovered so we could swear out an arrest warrant charging Ryan Alexander Duke with the murder of Tara Grinstead. Duke was taken into custody yesterday afternoon, and a warrant was issued this morning.

So that's the announcement you're talking about, Dr. Godwin. That's correct. But who saw this coming? I mean, this guy never caused a problem at school. They did not have a relationship. I mean, I got into it at CrimeCon when it was suggested that she had some kind of illicit sex relationship with this guy, one of her students. No, I don't believe that for a minute.

And I do believe sex maybe was the motive behind all this, but it was against her will. I think you're right about that. Because if they wanted to steal something, I mean, they could have done it. And I think you're right about that. And I really am angry about suggestions that she was in the wrong place that she went, quote, went somewhere she shouldn't have. That really made me mad. And Dr. Godwin, you should have seen the, I was there. That's right. That's right. And Dr. Godwin, you should have seen the. I was there.

That's right. That's right. Thank you. The uproar, the uproar. I should have had you up there on that panel. The uproar that erupted at CrimeCon when it was suggested that she had a relationship. To me, it was being suggested that he had some kind of sex relationship with this boy. I think what it was, it wasn't really saying that. I think he was saying because she was an emotional

wreck over Marcus and that made her vulnerable. And I don't think there was anything. I think maybe he was saying, I think maybe she would go, she would have taken a risk and gone somewhere, not to have sex or anything, but gone somewhere that put herself at risk. Nancy, conveniently, I have that clip ready. This is from CrimeCon 2017 with Up and Vanish podcaster Payne Lindsey getting in a little bit of hot water with the audience. Let's listen. Her question was to Payne Lindsey, since this was her student, wouldn't she probably open the door? He knew her and her boyfriend had broken up, and she would be alone. Yeah, she may have opened the door, but that's not what the GBI said happened.

They say that he broke in there. But he knows she was alone, so let's say that he broke in there and but he knows she was alone so let's just okay pretend he did go there to break it he knows she's alone yeah he would know that yes she's an easy victim and she's beautiful and he's accessible to the yeah and she she may have she would have known him and may have trusted him enough to let him inside for sure that's possible something i heard you say earlier when you were doing your podcast in here is you suggested that maybe she was just in a state of mind to do something out of the ordinary and wild.

Are you suggesting she might have gone to that party with Ryan and Bo? I just think that based on the emails that I have read that kind of give insight into Tara's state of mind in that time, she seemed very vulnerable to me. And I always just gut feeling like you get your gut feelings, thought that that might be related to her disappearance. Well, wouldn't one person at the party have seen them together? Oh, yeah, for sure. But they didn't.

Or they just didn't say they did. This was not the principal's barbecue. I'm talking about a separate instance. A separate party in town that night and not one person ever came forward? Maybe she didn't go. Maybe she's at the barbecue at 11 o'clock, and maybe she doesn't go straight home. Maybe she goes somewhere else. Maybe she goes out here on the orchard where there's a party, and there's other people around.

What people? Friends of Bo and Ryan. And they are how old? 21, 22. And she is how old? 30. of Bill and Ryan and they are how old 21 22 she is how old 30 okay so maybe she went to a party out in an orchard with a group of her former students is that what you're okay maybe and so after all these years not one of those students ever came forward and said yeah we saw her that night they haven't but yeah

they are now they what the ones I't, but they are now. They what? The ones I'm talking to, they are now. Saying that she was there? Wait, wait. Are they saying she was at the party? Not that specifically, but all these people, all the friends of Bo and Ryan, most of them

knew about this too. Whatever happened, they knew about it. And they kept it a secret. So the idea that this secret could not be kept for about it and they kept it a secret so the idea that this secret could not be kept for so long wait that she was at the party no but that they knew what happened specifically that's that's one of my theories i it's easier to make it make sense if she was already out there on the orchard to me um versus ryan taking her out there. At her house. Well, the house was almost perfect.

I mean... But there was no real signs of a struggle. Oh, it's not fitting into Payne Lindsay's narrative. I'm not saying that's not true. I'm saying that's a possibility. But Ryan Duke's a pretty small guy. I mean, it's confusing. I mean, he's not. Yeah.

Okay, there's the last. I promise you I am. Hit me. She's not. Tell it. Tell it. Somebody is chewing pain, Lindsay, a nearer end hole. Okay.

I mean. Let this lady stand up in the purple, pink-ish. Yeah. So, I understand it was three years after Ryan was in her class. And I agree with you. I feel like it's pretty random that he would pick Tara over anyone else just by I know he was intoxicated I know that there was other things going on but do you think that there was any communication between the two of them within those three years that might have brought Tara to his mind and that's the reason why he chose her? Well, let me first clear this up real quick. I mean, Tara is the victim here.

I'm not saying anything else. I mean, whatever happened to Tara was... No, I literally said that there might be... I think she's right i'm with pain on this i'm with you it's easy to to make it seem like i'm victim shaming or something like that i'm not no i mean if i was shaming a victim i wouldn't be doing up and vanish in a situation 21 year old and i said that she might have been vulnerable and made a decision that was out of the norm for Tara. And going to a place with strangers might be a decision out of the norm.

I'm not saying she had any sort of intent there. She may have just had an open invitation and done something out of the norm. And that's why this case has been unsolved for so long. Do you think they had a communication? No, I don't think so. I think that if anything, if Ryan may have had some sort of obsession with her, Tara had nothing to do with Ryan. I don't think they talked to each other over the years.

I think that it might have been something that developed in his own head and turned into something else later. That's what she's saying, like he ran into her that day at Ralph's. I think that random choice. They had no interaction over the last three years. I'm just wondering why... For all we know, he could have seen her that night

and followed her home. I mean, it could have been that simple. Wait, I've got to go. Okay, that. I just had a question about the currency. You said the land was not covered? The...

Skew. Yeah, the shade was a skew. Is it possible she might have done it accidentally on her way out? Who said no? Says Maurice scotland wait a minute she was just on the phone with the the current boyfriend from perry now this whole thing with the ex marcus the volatile relationship it was on again off again then and he was a cop then enter the detective in Perry, a nearby town. She was currently seeing him. I mean, nothing ever, and I taught while I was waiting to get into law school, nothing would make me interested in a 13-year-old boy

except to tell him to sit down and shut up. No, no, uh-uh. This woman, Tara Grant said, I'm just telling you, a beauty queen getting her Ph.D., uh-uh. She was not interested in some history student she had three years before. N-O. I think everything was against her will. And you notice one thing about the charges and stuff, if they had any evidence that she was taken while she was alive from the house, they would have charged kidnapping. And there's no kidnapping charges.

Well, I don't know. I disagree. Well, let me rephrase. I don't know that I disagree with what you said. But I think that they know they cannot prove a kidnapping. I do not think that Tara Grinstead, I mean, you take in the lamp, the broken lamp, the broken bedpost, the pearls, the car all covered in mud and the seat kicked back. She did not go anywhere willingly, but that in itself in their minds may not be enough to prove kidnapping. So just because

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how did this guy go under the radar, this student she had three or four years before she goes missing? Who is this guy? Where did he come from? And how did he get busted? Well, let me just say this. When I was talking about changing strategies, I got back in 2015 and I said, I was telling the GBI that, and so I need to change my own strategy after 10 years. And so that's when I saw the post in January of 2006 on WebSluice from Payne. And I said, well, maybe here's my strategy after all this long time. Maybe I can use the media like a podcast or something that can help this case. So I agreed to work with him and we started the podcast and stuff. And I think it played a role in fleshing out this Bo Dukes and Ryan Duke. That was my strategy, changing strategy and stuff.

And I believe if the podcast had never been done, I don't believe there would have ever been an arrest for a long time. I think you may be right about that, Dr. Maurice Godwin. So what can you tell me about the man arrested and Taylor's murder? Well, Ryan, he went into the military, but after boot camp and stuff, he was released for some reason. What is his full name? Ryan Alexander Duke. Okay, because I don't really refer to killers by their, excuse me,

alleged killers by their first names. I'm not really on a first name basis with him or OJ or Jody or Top Mom. So, all right, I thought maybe I lost my mind when you said Ryan. His name is Ryan Alexander Duke. Okay, back to him. Who is this guy? Well, he was a former student. He went in the military. For some reason, after boot camp, he got out. Oh, so he never really went. He just went to boot camp? Basically, yeah. Then he had, he was, you know, employed, unemployed, just hanging around Osceola. I think he had a drinking problem. I'm not sure about a heavy drug problem, but he had a drinking problem, and he was living in October of 2005 with Bo Dukes in Fitzgerald. He comes from a more of an unstable background and everything. Of course, I'm not quite sure fully aware of Bo's background, but Ryan did not come from any privilege or any kind of money or anything like that.

Well, that's pretty much all of us, Dr. Godwin. So what do you think happened? And how did he get busted? I understand someone walked into the police department, the local police department, and gave a tip. My understanding is that Bo was dating a girl, and they had been dating over a year at this time. So I'm not quite sure if she knew before February of 2017. Anyway, she found out, and she mentioned it to her mom. It's my understanding her mom went to law enforcement. So he, the roommate, says something to his girlfriend about Ryan Alexander Duke?

No, about the disappearance and what happened to Tara. Oh, he didn't say he did it i'm not quite sure if he told her or not but he said he knew about it anyway she took it and went to her mother and or or mentioned it in in passing to her mother and her mother um went to law enforcement then that's when everything broke they they approached him they had to get evidence on it so they went to him and he just he threw Ryan under the bus. And then what happens? We don't know because of gag order. We don't know if the DNA on the glove matches Ryan or anyone. So we don't know that. They must have a probable cause

based on Bo's interview. And then I think maybe they got some sort of small confession from Ryan and then they made the arrest of ryan where why were they digging in a pecan orchard well because that's that was that's owned by beau's uncle and stuff and and supposedly after the the killing or somehow she got out either she was carried out there or or somehow she was already out there. But that's where they... I don't think that her bedroom would be so disheveled if she... I don't either. I mean, so she went home, okay? Yeah, she went home.

To me, in my opinion, I think she was attacked in the bedroom. And they got her from there or killed her there and carried her body back to Fitzgerald and went to the pecan orchard. And she stayed supposedly there for like a day or whatever. And then they burned her up and buried her. Okay, slow down. Tell me that again. What's your scenario? They went after she was killed.

She was carried back to Fitzgerald. She was taken over to the pecan orchard. And she was burned up, and then she was buried. What are you basing on the burning up? Well, this is Bo's, what he has told people, and that's what's out there, yes. And plus, they've only found small fragments of bones and stuff like that. But she was definitely burned. But why do you say that? How do you know Tara Grinstead was burned?

Well, based on what Bo and Emma said. Okay. Now, let me ask you this. Do you believe Bo was with Ryan Alexander Duke when all this occurred? I think Bo's the killer. And I think that she was sexually assaulted. And what better way to get rid of forensic evidence than burning a body? Well, then what role does Ryan Alexander Duke play in it? I think he's very suggestible.

And I think that he don't even, I don't even think that he really even knows. But I think Ryan is a follower. Bo is a leader. And I just think they work. Bo. Well, isn't it true that Bo claims in text messages that Ryan Alexander Duke told him he killed Tara in her own bed? That's what he said. That's right.

With one hit. But I mean, supposedly Bo said that that Saturday night, there was some people at his house in Fitzgerald, and they all was drinking. They passed out, except Ryan. And Ryan took his truck to a cell and killed her and brought her back. And then suddenly, I guess Bo woke up or something, but he told him that he had what he'd done, and he had her in the truck.

And so, but Bo claims that he didn't see her until Wednesday. He didn't see the body. He went out there and she was bloated up and stuff. I don't believe that at all. I don't think Ryan picked out Bo's family land to put her on his own will. I think that Bo was behind, he was behind where that body was dumped at. And you believe that Bo sexually assaulted her? I believe, oh yeah, I believe, absolutely.

Now, in the text exchanges that have now been revealed, Bo has actually described watching Tara Grinstead's body burning. Is that true? That's correct. Now, he, Bo, claims it was two full days after the killings that Duke, his roommate, showed him Tara's naked body in the pecan orchard and that it was his idea to burn the body. That does not ring true to me. If somebody came and said to me, I've got Alan Duke lurking somewhere on this program.

I am here. Alan, if you were to come tell me, hey, I've got Alan Duke lurking somewhere on this program. I am here. Alan, if you were to come tell me, hey, I've got a naked body out my truck bed. You think I'd wait two days to get a look at it? Uh-uh. N-O. That's just downright not true right there. I agree with you, Dr. Godwin. I agree.

Yeah, there's a lot that Dr. Godwin has been able to uncover along with the others working on this. What sticks out to you? The thing that sticks out to me, and it's a really concern, and the reason that I think Dr. Godwin might think that Beau is implicated more than he's admitting to, is this whole thing about the statute of limitations. Could you go into that with us, Dr. Godwin? See, supposedly they got a call probably a week or two or something afterwards. She went missing. They got a call, the Irwin County Sheriff's Department, and supposedly

two deputies went to the county line, Ben Hill County line, which is where Fitzgerald was at. And supposedly they went out there and drove around and searched. Of course, it's like 300 acres. They didn't find anything, so they just left. Around the pecan orchard. But there's no really record of that search. But supposedly, the whole thing for this is to suggest that law enforcement somehow knew about somebody out there at a bonfire and stuff, confessed that they killed Tara. We're getting way out in the weeds here. You asked about a statute of limitations problem.

If they knew about it then. There is no statute in a murder case, people. Not murder, but the— It's about when she was found. If law enforcement knew about it, does the statute of limitations start then? Or both charges. Or on both charges, yes. Wait, are you trying to say—I'm sorry. I can't make sense of what the two of you are saying.

You are saying, first of all, first of all, there is no statute of limitations on murder. Statute of limitations simply means this. Say I run into Walmart and I steal a set of towels, okay? There's a statute of limitations during which I can be prosecuted on a theft by taking is probably five years. After five years, if they don't get me, those towels are mine and I'm home free. That's a statute of limitations. But I think the question is, when does that start? If law enforcement didn't know anything about that theft, when does that statute of limitations start?

Okay. First of all, in murder. But this is about Bo's charges. You see, Bo could get off. I understand you, but are you telling me, the two of you actually telling me you don't think Bo had anything to do

with her murder? But they don't have the evidence on him, apparently. We don't know because of the gag work. I put that right to a jury and let a jury decide put those two together he's only charged in being healed he's not charged in urban county not for now with hiding the body right disposing the body yeah what the ceiling evidence and hiding the body and all that he's not right now but that can be amended so anyway the statute in hiding the body would likely start at the time of the murder now on hiding a body he did the crime hiding a body of course is not murder but if you're

charged with accessory to murder well they don't have that in georgia you know what you're right so he'd have to be charged with co-defendant he'd have to be charged as a co-defendant in murder in Georgia. attorney, the prosecutors, to be a state witness. But is that still holding Dr. Godwin? I tell you, I don't think so, because, you know, he was arraigned not too long ago. So, Dr. Godwin, you feel firmly that they have found enough of her body to prove a murder charge, you know, because it's often said if you don't have a body, you can't prove a case. That's entirely not true. But you believe they have found enough bone fragments to prove what happened to Tara. I believe that they have found enough remains to prove that it is Tara. To prove that it is Tara.

And the fact that her bones are fragmented shows a lot. Well, that comes from decomposition over the 12 years and the burning. There won't be no autopsy because there's nothing autopsy. The manner of death, you have to base it on somebody's word, not manner of death. I mean, the mechanism of death, like smothering or strangulation, you have to just base it on Bo's word. Or I don't know if Ryan said that or not in a confession. You just have to base it on that. Well, I'd hate to base anything on what these two may say.

What is Tara's family reaction to this? Well, they're thrilled about the arrest, and they want the monsters to go to prison. And what do people in Osceola think of this? Do they think they've got the right guy? Yes, I think the people in Osceola are glad there was arrest, and I think they'd be glad when this whole thing is over with. Let me ask you this.

Do you think this should be a death penalty case? Because I do. Absolutely. I'm glad to hear that. I'm really glad to hear that. Now, of course, they'd have to move the case out of Osceola. That's just a given. The defense is going to ask for a change of venue. But when do you believe this will go to trial?

A year. A year. And do you think this will go to trial? A year. Mm-hmm. A year. And do you think Bo Dukes, the roommate, is ultimately going to give state's evidence against Ryan Alexander Duke? Yeah, he's got a problem with defense. He's got a problem because, I mean, the defense attorney, he's got all the files now, which are 30 feet. They were 30 feet long. The GBI files in his case was 30 feet long before their arrest. So he's got all those files now.

He's going to try to get one person a reasonable doubt on that jury that Ryan did this himself and try to implicate both. So with all his posting, all his screenshots, he can be easily impeached. Let me ask you, Dr. Godwin, what would have made Ryan Alexander Duke do such a thing? If you don't believe they had a sex relationship, which I do not, why would he leave a party and go kill Tara Grinstead or try to assault her and then kill her? I think it's more like both of them were riding around. And possibly saw her coming home. Yeah, that's right. Now, there might be another motive behind that, but I don't know it.

So your scenario is that they're out riding around. They see her or they go by her house. I mean, she would have recognized Ryan Alexander Duke if he came to the door. And that's all it took. Yeah. And, you know know there's been mentioned uh no he he used a plastic card or something like that to jiggle around and get in into the front door i don't believe that why don't you believe that because even i can break into a

door with my driver's license yeah but i i mean first of all her front porch light was on and she had some halloween decorations up i mean and, you know, him drinking and stuff. He's standing there with a car trying to, and she had a piece of wood in the molding, the brick molding of the doorframe and stuff all the way down on the left side that prevents you. So he would have to sit there and fiddle with this thing and late at night and stuff and do, I don't believe that.

He got in some other way or he used a ruse uh to and she opened the door and you think the struggle went down in her bedroom i do you believe yeah it does too because they have it in their yeah they do it's in the indictment yeah and you believe that he killed her right there in the bed that's right he had put her body in his truck took her body to a pecan orchard, buried it, burned it and buried it. At some point, they were in her car, though. At some point. At some point. Possible.

But, you know, I don't know. You know, there's a lot of nuances in this case. But to me, in my opinion, Bo is the reason why that the body was in the pecan orchard. They chose that location. Ryan did not go out there on his own and dump body out there and then later come back and tell Bo later on, a couple of days later, hey, you know, I just put this over your uncle's land. I don't believe that at all.

How do you think that this is going to play out, Dr. Godwin? Well, I hope it goes to trial because, you know, entering a plea and reading that, you know, that short narrative, you know, and the judge reading it and stuff and Ryan agreeing to it and signing off on it and stuff. I think it would leave a lot of people hanging. So I think people in the family are owed case information. And I think that's having a trial is the only way to do that. So I think hopefully that this go to trial. And I think Ryan

end up getting life without parole. And I hope that Bo gets a lot more years than a one or two. Well, why not the death penalty? I don't think, I don't know if this is a, it's a death penalty case, we believe it, but I don't know if they've charged him with that. Yeah, I don't believe they've included any aggravated circumstances. Yeah, they probably took it off the table as a negotiating thing. Well, they haven't negotiated with Ryan Alexander Duke, I don't think. Yeah, I don't know about that.

But they have with Bo Duke. Yeah, because basically that's the only thing they've got. Except, you know, I don't know what the DNA on the glove is. And we don't have a body to get sperm or touch DNA or with no soft tissue left. You couldn't get touch DNA anyway. Yeah. And they left the genes, left the genes in the bedroom. See where you have that belt. And I mean, you know, you can do touch DNA and stuff from the genes of where you have to grab areas.

That's right. And stuff. And so that stuff was left in the clothing was left in the bedroom. But the cops got it. No, that's what I know. The jeans were left in the bedroom, as far as I know. Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Where are the jeans now? I think a lot of the stuff went in storage and everything.

You know, Dr. Godwin, I really hate to hear that. And I don't want to trash the cops because they're doing the best they can. They are. But the GBI should have a different approach during the first five years

would have made a difference. At least they should have had some type of conference, call a conference and update every five years or every three years or something like that, and they never did that. I'll tell you what happened. What? They had the DNA, and DNA, full DNA and stuff like that, makes a lot of investigators lazy. So what they do, they don't really have

anything else. So they just wait for a hit. With me is a renowned forensic psychologist who was hired by Tara Grinstead's family to try to find the truth. Dr. Maurice Godwin with us as we wait for this case to go to trial and the murder of a beautiful young woman, a beauty queen turned Ph.D. candidate, Tara Grinstead. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Goodbye, friend. This is an I Heart Podcast.