Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - WHERE IS DULCE ALAVEZ? Family releases new video of the missing 5 year-old as police work to pin down a suspect.

Episode Date: October 11, 2019

Dulce Alavez has been missing nearly a month. Was the little girl abducted or is family involved in her disappearance? Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the facts: Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina Family attorney; John Cardillo, Former NYPD; Caryn Stark,Psychologist; Sheryl McCollum, Crime Scene Expert and Founder, The Cold Case Investigative Research Institute; and Alexis Terezchuck with Radaronline.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. when was the last time you seen her? We were here at the park and people said that somebody, probably somebody took her. Okay. How old is she? She's five years old. Okay. And what park are you at? Here in Bridgeton Park.

Okay. Where in the Bridgeton Park are you? The one with the basketball court where high school is. Okay, so you're at the basketball courts behind the high school? Yes. Okay. And what was she seeing last wearing? She was wearing, um, give me a second. I don't remember what clothes she was wearing, but she was wearing, I just remember a pants. She was wearing like a flowery pants and some heels, some white heels.

Okay. Hi, ma'am. Stay in line. I'm going to try to get over to the police, okay? And you said she was five, correct? Yes. All right. Hello, ma'am? Yes. All right. Hello ma'am. Hello. Hi did you see which direction your child went?

No we were in the car she she came down with my son they were running to the park and then me my sister we came down but when we got here at the park she wasn't here they said that my son was just crying with ice cream because somebody threw his ice cream in the floor and my daughter The reward for information on the missing five-year-old little girl, Dulce Alavez, who vanishes from a local park, has now climbed to $52,000. Where is Dulce? With every day, every hour, literally every minute that passes, the likelihood of bringing this little girl home alive diminishes. With me, an all-star panel, Kathleen Murphy, renowned family lawyer joining us out of North Carolina, former NYPD John Cardillo, psychologist joining us from Manhattan, Karen Stark. You can find her at karenstark.com.

Director of the Cold Case Research Institute and crime scene expert Cheryl McCollum, right now to RadarOnline.com's Alexis Tereshak. Alexis, I am very irritated right now because not to name any names, but some headlines are saying five-year-old girl may have been abducted. Look, I don't know who took her, but somebody kidnapped her. Somebody took her. I don't like that insinuation. What, she ran off and she's living on the Riviera and a pair of Chanel sunglasses? No, she was taken. Alexis, what's the latest? The latest is that her mother has said

she called 911 in a panic. She was sitting in the park with another eight-year-old relative in the car. She was playing with her little boy, her little brother, just steps away from each other just in a park right at the end whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa alexis tereshchuk investigative reporter radar online.com i hate to take you to school but she wasn't just a few steps away i mean

cheryl mccullen backed me up now we know alexis tereshchuk is a new mom okay so maybe in her mind 30 yards that's 90 feet away Cheryl McCollum now Alexis Tereshchuk maybe you're faster than I am but if a guy pulls up in a reddish colored minivan and waves at the little girl and she gets in the car. I really don't think that the mom in a car talking to her eight-year-old little sister, as I understand who the child was, with her two children 90 feet away, I don't think she's that fast. She's not an Olympic sprinter, Cheryl.

Not only that, Nancy, from where she was sitting in her car, there's like a little hill, a mound. She couldn't see over it to see the swings where the children apparently went. She had no field of vision to watch them from where she was. Now, another crack reporter, Jackie Howard, sitting here, chiming in, has now reported from her quote sources that the mom was scratching lottery tickets. What do you know, Alexis Tereshchuk? That is what has been reported, that she was not paying attention at all and that she was scratching lottery tickets.

I just am finding this story, Nancy, to be, it is hurting my heart so much. When I look at this picture of this little girl and I just, after all the stories that we have covered and everything that you always say, it is really scaring me for her. And I hesitate to say anything about the mom because I'm just afraid that some other people took her. I look at that little face and there's just something that is really scaring me about this story. You know, the one that gets to me, Karen Stark, I think we need to shrink because Alexis and I, Cheryl McCollum, you know, apparently this is just old hat to her because she doesn't seem to feel a thing. But Karen Stark, Alexis is right. I'm looking at the picture of Dulce with the pigtails way up on top of her head.

She is the cutest thing. I just, I can't imagine somebody taking this little girl, Karen Stark, and why is it, it strikes us to the heart. Because she's a little girl, because she's so innocent, because there's no way that she can defend herself. If you think of the story, and you imagine what might have happened, that this man approached her and offered her a toy or somebody that people like this, men like this are very skilled at being able to attract little children. And so this innocent little girl follows him and hasn't been seen since. And it's hard to imagine that any mother would take her eye off of this child and not have her in her view. It's just the saddest, heartbreaking.

It really, it hits all of us, Nancy, because we all know how innocent children are and we love children. You know, to a Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, I kind of resent the headlines that Dulce may have been kidnapped. She was kidnapped. Now, I don't know who did it or for what reason, but this child was taken, Kathleen. Why are they saying that? And I don't like a Spurs' cast on the mom right now because there have been times I've had the children at the playground, not 90 feet away from me, but at the playground, and I've had to go back to the car and get bottled water. Or I've been sitting on a bench and I looked down to work onto my iPad while they're playing. So I'm not going to steam the mom. I'm not going to boil her in the hot

water because she was scratching a lot of tickets. But I do think 90 feet was too far away to be. Why are the headlines saying that, Kathleen Murphy? To me, it's very clear that they've identified some person of interest in regards to being at the park at the same time. It was a red van, I believe. So it's clear to me, like it is to you, that this child has been taken. And now we learn the entire narrative is changing. The witnesses who claim they see a Hispanic man with acne scars on his face lure Dulce into a reddish color van or minivan. Now there's a whole different story emerging. encouraging. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Police have now issued an amber alert. They say

they have reason to believe that she was abducted. These are the last images of Dulce Maria before she vanished. She wore a yellow shirt with a koala bear on the front, black and white pants and white sandals. Police also have the description of the man who is believed to have abducted her from the Bridgeton City Park. They say he is light-skinned, about 5'6 to 5'8, a thin build, no facial hair, acne on his face, wearing orange sneakers, possibly Nike, red pants and a black shirt. Police say this mystery man led Dulce from the playground to a red van with a sliding door and tinted windows. She was seated in the back by that man and then he drove off around 4.20. That would be just minutes after her mother last saw her.

You are hearing ABC Action News reporter Jeanette Reyes. But wait a minute. The narrative is now drastically changing. Take a listen to this. You didn't see anyone else around there that she could possibly have went with? No, not that I know of. Because we didn't know. There's just some other people that are here that said that they saw her running running to um through some houses in the back and they they said that

they saw two per they saw two men they saw a black guy and they saw a mexican man with two kids but there's people here in the basketball court that they saw her they said they saw her running they're saying that there's people there at the basketball court that they saw her running through some houses with two black males she's light-skinned spanish what color top does she have on um i don't remember okay because it always sounds are you at the basketball court yes i'm right here right now she's that's a firm she says that she's at the basketball court and do you have your son with you or is your son no i have my son with me they say um he was crying when we found him he was just standing there crying.

He was standing there crying. Okay, so which is it? Is it a Hispanic male with acne scars on his face, short male, getting her into a reddish colored van or minivan? Or is it a black male with a Hispanic man with two kids, or is it two black males running with Dulce? Listen to this. You said that the black males took his ice cream? No, they threw it in the floor. They had to throw it in the floor. So the two males took his ice cream and threw it on the floor, and then they left with your daughter? Probably, because I didn't saw it.

When we came and looked for her, we were looking everywhere for her. She said that her son was at the basketball court with her daughter, that there was two black males that took her son's ice cream and threw it on the ground and left with her daughter. Okay, well, we have the officers. Are you on mayor aiken um i already have an officer here okay all right we'll speak with the police ma'am okay okay which one is it to cheryl mccall i'm director of the cold case research institute i am not saying the mom is involved in this. Let's just be clear about that. But do you remember when Susan Smith insisted it was an African-American

male? I was still in the courtroom at that time, and I was trying the case alone, but I think I was being threatened with contempt of court again. And my friend who is now a judge, Herman Sloan, came into the courtroom with a stack of appellate books to try to save me, God bless him. And somebody showed me the sketch of who allegedly took Susan Smith's children. And I said, Herman, where were you? It looked just like Herman so he died laughing I'm like hey hey don't laugh too much Herman so now we hear just this muddle of confusion we've got a Hispanic man with acne that lures her into a reddish colored van or minivan now we've got a Hispanic male and an African-American male now I've got got two African-Americans. But remember, before we blame this all on the mom,

she's relaying what people on the basketball court are telling her. It's my understanding, Cheryl. She's relaying it because she didn't see it. So here's the issue. This is why people are concerned, and this is why law enforcement is running down every lane and every avenue because she starts looking for her daughter, supposedly, for 10 or 15 minutes. When she can't find her, she doesn't call the police, Nancy.

She calls her brother. After another 30 or 40 minutes, then they call the police. So now an hour has passed with this child missing. There's not a mama that's going to tell you that would ever happen. We've all heard your story when you couldn't find John David in Target for 30 seconds and you wanted the whole place locked down. So an hour and you didn't see it and your best witness is a crying three-year-old we have flags all over creation that you've got to verify um she's claiming again when she calls 9-1-1 she's not begging for help she's not demanding that they hurry she's not demanding they find her and she

never says it's a man she says somebody somebody, someone, not even a gender. So there's lots of concerns here for me. Well, quote, somebody probably took her. Okay, I understand John Cardillo, former NYPD, is chomping at the bit. Jump in, John. Yeah, I don't believe a word this mother says. So I'm going to come out and say it. She needs to be the primary suspect right now. If you go back to the cases, the well-known cases of child abduction, and

many of them ended terribly, go back to the Polly Kloss case many years ago. If you look at the fact pattern of that case and the evidence, her dad, Mark Kloss, and her mom remembered minute details. They could have told you which way her bangs were hanging that morning, to the right or to the left. The pattern, the polyester to cotton composition of her clothing, it defies all reason. The mom doesn't know what color pants. Oh, maybe flowered, maybe black and white. I don't remember what color shirt. I don't really know where they were. They threw my son's ice cream on the floor. I've not heard a less believable story from an alleged complaining victim. And I work these specific cases quite a bit with the National Center for Missing and Exploded Children, read a lot of 911 transcripts, Nancy. If I were the investigator here, the mom would be my primary, primary suspect.

Nothing about this fact pattern or the timeline makes any sense whatsoever to me. We'll take a listen to what ABC 6 Philadelphia reporter John Rollins says. The plight of the missing girl is on people's minds. A lot. Really? And our church is constantly talking about and praying for it, that safety for the little girl. It's messed up, man. the little girl. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I just constantly talk about him praying for it.

That safety for the little girl messed up, man. Like like you gotta look at perspective like it was your child. How would you feel? People were boggled by this. You know, I mean, it's mind blowing the fact that. Had a mother and two

little kids. And where did she go? Officials again are asking people with cell phone images from the park at the time of the abduction to upload those images to the FBI. The hope of video of, say, an athletic event might include someone or something in the background that could aid investigators. The FBI used such uploads investigating a missing child in North Carolina in 2018,

and the Boston bomber case in 2013. So with that in mind, again, authorities are urging anyone who might have video from here in the park in Bridgeton between 3 and 6 p.m. on Monday, September 16th. That's the time period where the little girl Dulce went missing. Do please upload that video if you can. crime stories with nancy grace nothing is a hundred percent certainty until we find i'll say despite limited answers we are still learning new information about the moments after dulce and her family stopped for ice cream.

On that warm Monday, she and her three-year-old brother ran to the swings. They were unsupervised and in less than 10 minutes. 911, where's your emergency? I can't find my daughter. Okay, when was the last time you seen her? We were here at the park and people said that somebody, probably somebody took her. From Bridgeton City Park, this 911 call rang into police from the girl's mother, Noema. I didn't see anyone else around there that she could possibly have went with.

There's a black guy and there's a Mexican man with two kids. And police later learned only one man took Dulce, not two. That's one of the reasons why there was a delay in the Amber Alert, because I'm sure that's going to be one of your questions, is that we have to vet that information. We have to verify that information through interviewing the witness by law enforcement. Also at the center of that Amber Alert was a red van whose driver has yet to be identified. I am not wed to the red vehicle.

The witness that gave us that information is a child of tender years. I will not discount it. I will not ask the public to disregard it. Wow. You are hearing the very latest, including NBC10 reporter Sydney Long. Guys, where is Dulce? I'm looking at a picture right now of her and something that John Cardillo, former NYPD, said has really struck a nerve. Alexis Tereszczuk, I can tell you right now what the twins have on. It was a special day at school today and they're having all day games to celebrate a saint. Okay. And he, John David has on black champion shorts that come down to about his knees. He has on red Adidas shoes and he's got on black socks. It's a fashion felony. I know this. And he's got a t-shirt

that the school gave him. Lucy has got on black Nike shorts with white trim that she wore in her volleyball as her volleyball suit. She's got the same t-shirt. Her hair is parted in the middle. She has on no socks and she has on white tennis shoes, not a major brand, but with red and white stripe down the side going vertically. John David's hair is not parted in any particular way. I suggested to him in the car that he part it left to right. That didn't happen. He took it and combed it straight down, straight down. It's just, it's not a good look, but that's what he does. Okay. I can tell you exactly. I won't go into it because they may hear this one day and be embarrassed. I even know what underwear they had on because I laid it out for him last night. All right. Okay. Hers are purple and his are blue.

There, I said it. So I'm concerned concerned this mom even i know what dulce was wearing she had i'm looking away i'm not even looking at a picture jackie yes yes no she had on long black and white checkered tights they may be a thin cotton or some kind of nylon she had on a short sleeve yellow shirt that came down you you know, mid thigh, a little higher than mid thigh. And it has a white panda or koala bear on the front. And she looks like she has on socks. I can't totally tell that, but she has on little heels, like little girl heels.

And they look to be of a light color. And her hair is partially pulled back. That's what I recall without looking. Yeah. Okay. That's right. And she's precious. And, and here's another thing. There's a photo of her at crimeonline.com wearing this outfit because you keep hearing about an ice cream just before she goes missing. They were at a gas station, a Sunoco gas station, and that's where they got ice creams, hers, coconut. Now, it concerns me that the mom didn't know those details. Explain, Alexis. Well, the mom had, to me, sounded very panicked, and she couldn't remember. You're exactly right.

When the police officer asked her, the 911 operator said, what was she wearing? She says, I don't remember. She can't remember anything. And she is telling her though, she says to the operator, a black man and a Mexican man are the two men that people around here are saying may have taken her. The operator then, it's a frantic situation, talks over her. They talk over each other, then says it as two black men. Then the story changes to it's one Hispanic man and he has acne scars on his face. So it went from two men, no idea. And then this, but you know, the little boy, her little brother, who's only three years old, when it first happened, he was pointing towards buildings, you know, pointing that's where she went. That's where she went. Then the story changes to she got in the

van and went away when they talked to some older people. So there are a lot of conflicting stories on this. But you're right. The mom did not know what her little girl was wearing. Cheryl McCollum, have you made sense out of the various stories? Nancy, one thing that concerns me is when mom says the little boy's ice cream fell on the floor. She repeats floor. They were outside. It should have been ground. So this leads me to think, was there a situation with the ice cream that fell on the floorboard of the car or the floor inside their house?

It sounds like they were inside, not outside. That concerns me. Again, everything that comes out of this woman's mouth, I want to believe her. I can't. She's not giving me any reason to believe her. You don't know what she's wearing. You never use her name. You never ask for help. You parked far away. Our best witness is a crying three-year-old and some child that described somebody that even the police don't believe that she was there. The video of her getting ice cream is the last time

we have her on film. That's it. Nobody else at the park took a picture, has a video. Nobody on a camera or, you know, a surveillance camera has her. They can't verify she was ever in that park. To John Cardillo, former NYPD, sounds like you and Cheryl McCullough are in the same boat. Yeah, absolutely. That's one of my issues as well, Nancy.

I'm not sure the child was ever in the park because we live in a surveillance state right now. I mean, I've got ring doorbells on my front door, the front gate to my house. I've got one on the front door to my house behind the gate. And then I've got one in my garages in the back of my house. I've got one there as well. And I would say 80% of my neighbors have that ring doorbell or another brand of video doorbell. I mean, you really can't go anywhere today without some surveillance camera capturing something. But again, like Cheryl, I see no evidence that the child ever made it to the park. That's my main concern. And what do we really have with the mom's

description? Well, maybe these people exist, maybe they don't. But we have right now perfectly legal behavior by other individuals. Maybe there was a black and Hispanic man walking through the park. That's legal behavior. There was a red van parked on the street. That's legal behavior. So in and of itself, sure, the police have to run those leads down. But even the witnesses, and I use that term loosely, aren't alleging even criminal behavior by other people that may have been in the park, just the mere fact that they have to be eliminated because they may or may not have been there. But again, I have suspicions that the kid ever made it to the park itself. To Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, weigh in. Nancy, there's an eight-year-old

that was apparently with this mother, and I have not heard anything about what this eight-year-old is saying and whether they were actually in the parking lot, whether the kids were with them. But it is concerning to me that nothing, absolutely nothing has come from this mother that's been helpful. You are analyzing this in a completely different vein. I'm just wondering, are we attacking the mom because we need to attack somebody and we don't know which way to go with it? Or are Cheryl McCollum and John Cardillo absolutely right? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

Additional video of Dulce Alavez released by her mother via a family friend, the playful five-year-old mugging to a cell phone camera, apparently just days before her abduction. Authorities not releasing any official information today. Earlier this week, the FBI had been working on a face-to-face meeting with Dulce's father, who lives in Mexico. It's not clear if that meetup has taken place. This afternoon, Dulce's maternal grandmother was putting up more missing posters near her home in Bridgeton. Dulce was last seen by her mom at this Bridgeton playground September 16th at this nearby zoo today. People,

some with their kids and grandkids, talked about the now days-long search. I just think it gets a little more tragic the longer it goes, you know. It's just pretty sad, really. This mother told us she thinks authorities and maybe some of the little girl's own family knows more than is being said publicly. She says she follows the story via social media. Every day I'll keep posting on all the news channels. Everybody that's posting something, I try to keep up to date. I want to know where she is. I want to know if they know. I want to know where she is, too.

You were just hearing ABC 6 Philadelphia reporter John Rollins. Everyone fixated on the search for Dulce Alavez, a five-year-old girl who goes missing, apparently from a local park, the Bridgeton Park. The reward for information about this little New Jersey girl who vanishes has now climbed to $52,000. In a Facebook post in the last hours, the New Jersey State Police say it, the police, who don't make half of what they should make for what they do, they are contributing $10,000 to the reward as the search goes on. And in addition to that, from the State Police, the Philadelphia Lodge No. 5 Fraternal Order of Police, more police, donating $5,000.

Two other donations for $1,000 were added to the reward. Now, we're learning this from the Bridgeton Police Department. What happened to Dulce? Police Chief Michael Gamary Sr. says that investigators have gathered a substantial amount of information, but still no Dulce. Now, we've also heard that police believe the child is still alive. Why? John Cardillo, former NYPD, why would they say that? They might be approaching this now as a custodial interference case. The FBI wants to meet with the dad in Mexico, so they might possibly have evidence that members of the paternal family or a member of the paternal family might have just taken the little girl, little girls with them. And if that's the case, then she's not in danger.

This might become a criminal slash civil situation, right? A custody case. And it would still be a criminal abduction in most places. But that, I mean, let's hope that's the case because then her safety isn't in question. Then it just becomes a legal issue. But that's my suspicion with being released in limited fashion right now. We'll take a listen to what ABC6 Philadelphia reporter John Rollins says. Well, the investigation continues to grind on here and the authorities make a point that it is still a wide-open investigation. Pretty much nothing is off the table at this time.

We were told the FBI has spoken by phone with the little girl's father. He lives in Mexico. The hope is at some point soon they will be able to have a face-to-face talk with him to try to see if he can shed any light on what happened to the little girl. Authorities say they continue to operate under the premise that the little girl seen here getting ice cream, Dulce Alaves, is still alive. They say they will continue to treat her disappearance as a missing person until evidence indicates otherwise. For more than a week a small army of investigators have searched the

Bridgeton City Park where Dulce was last seen. Others not seen are in the process of collecting terabytes of data from cell phone communications, along with video from multiple cameras, including those on school buses and police vehicles. The prosecutor's office said video of a red vehicle recently broadcast had been investigated and determined not involved in the abduction. You know, I'm looking at news alerts as late as just yesterday, and they're still talking about the red van and describing the Hispanic male with black hair and acne scars. I just, it's so much information is being disseminated. Alexis Tereshchuk, have we now learned they've ruled out the red minivan, or is it still a possibility? Well, the investigators

have said that they have, they found a van, they researched it, they investigated it. And there's this one van that was ruled out, but it is still out there. And what they said from the very beginning was what the authority said, it was a tender age person. So it's obviously the little boy, the little brother, who's just three years old and, you know, a three-year-old red, blue, green, they know their colors, but under questioning, they might not be able to get it said correctly so this was something that i think that they were very hesitant to say from the very beginning there's never been a license plate or anything identified with that so they have pretty much ruled this out i know

they looked at over 500 reddish tinted vehicles, Cheryl McCollum. Nancy, they've checked every red vehicle, not just vans. They have searched by foot, by boat. They use infrared technology on a helicopter. They've used dive teams with sonar, canines. They brought in the FBI. They have done everything possible to find this child. And again, this point, for me in this investigation, mama needs to take a polygraph. Okay, to you, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, the dad is in Mexico, all right?

And police are not going down there. That tells me they don't believe the dad's involved. He's not involved. I mean, they have him on like a bus video phone, and they know he's in Mexico. And I can guarantee he's probably not got connections to be able to transport this child. Take a listen to ABC Action News reporter Maggie Kent. Now state and local police are joined by the FBI Child Abduction Division. As the search continues, so does a criminal investigation.

If the child wandered away, time is of the essence. Obviously, if there's something, foul play amiss, time is also of the essence. The professional search crews are utilizing every tool available in the air, on the ground, and underwater. And strangers are stepping in to help. I thought I'd come down and just walk and look and see what I could do. I could see this is a difficult search. I'm very concerned about this little girl, and I pray to God that she's found shortly. We just got an update from police less than an hour ago

who say they have used canines to search this little girl's mother's car, which is still parked in this parking lot right near the playground where she went missing. They've also searched the family home. The family, they say, has been more than cooperative. Although the FBI child abduction unit is here, there are no clues to indicate that Dulce was abducted. Did you hear that? Did you hear that? John Cardillo, former NYPD, no clues to suggest she was abducted? What about what all the witnesses are saying? Well, you really don't have any credible witnesses, right? I mean, we've been saying that you've got little kids. You've got the mom who is suspected best. I agree, I think,

with Cheryl who said mom needs to take a polygraph, but I would look at dad's family. Let's face it, however you slice it, this is not the most attentive, nurturing mother, okay? I think we've established that no matter how this cake shakes out. I mean, you're 90 yards, was it 30 yards away? I don't let my dog get 30 yards away if I walk them off the leash in a park. You don't let your little adorable five-year-old get 90 feet away. I mean, that's just ridiculous. And so maybe the dad's family, there might be an aunt, there might be a grandmother, there might be an uncle who saw signs of neglect.

Now, we don't know that, but my point is we have no evidence in this case. There's nothing, no evidence of abduction, not a bow in her hair left on the ground, nothing. So the police are definitely, definitely looking at the mom. But at the same time, they know the dad was in Mexico. Sure, we can rule him out. But now they're looking at this. He had family here. Was child and family services ever called to this home?

That's going to be a big indicator. If we get that data point, we find out that they were, maybe it could have been a family friend. It could have been anybody for any reason. But I do, just in my gut, I do feel the police are on the right track when they say they feel she's still alive. I do as well. Karen Stark, psychologist, joining us out of Manhattan.

You can find her at karenstark.com. Karen, why do you believe people are attacking the mom? Is it because we don't know where else to turn? Well, that may be part of it, Nancy, but there's also the fact that it took so long to get in touch with authorities. I mean, I think that the story which you've told about John David is very indicative of what a parent would do. I can't imagine a mom having this child disappear. She didn't remember what she was wearing, but not getting in touch with the police immediately when her child isn't there calling her brother. That does not ring true to me. I don't understand it. Alexis Terescha, RadarOnline.com investigative reporter.

What more do you know? I want to tell y'all that the other day I was at a corn maze. We have huge pumpkin patches out here in California. And my little boy, who's five, and his best friend, Mackenzie, they ran into the corn maze together. The other mom and I followed. We could not find them. We were calling their names, calling, calling, calling. As we went deeper into the corn maze, the other mom said, I'm going to turn around and I'm going to go to the front. She went back to the front. They were both there crying. We had, that was probably a good 15 minutes that we were searching for them inside the corn maze, thinking they were there and they were outside. And there were police crawling all over this place. So the kids would have been fine,

but it was a little while before, you know, and if we hadn't found them, we then would have called. But I don't think this is such a long time for this mom to not have called the police. You search. You call your family. You say, oh, my gosh, I can't find her. I could be wrong on this. I know we all have gut instincts. But I do not see this as the mom having done this.

And I will 100% take responsibility if I am wrong. But I think this is somebody who was searching, searching, searching, called her brother. He probably said, call the police. She called the police. And she is in a panic looking for her little daughter. We wait as the search goes on for five-year-old Dulce Maria Alavaz. Tip line 856-451-0033. 856-451-0033. 856-451-0033.

800-CALL-FBI. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.