Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Where is Mommy? Young mom Natalie Jones missing in hot pink Chevy after party.

Episode Date: September 10, 2020

Young Georgia mom Natalie Jones celebrates July 4th with friends, then leaves for home around 10 p.m. She has not been seen since. A text message was received by a friend saying, "I made it." It was assumed that meant she was home. She isn't. There is a reward of $10,000.Joining Nancy Grace today: Jessica Bishop - Sister of Natalie Jones Kirk Nurmi - Jodi Arias former Attorney, Author "Trapped with Ms Arias Parts 2 and 3, My Final Words" Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Beverly Hills, ww.drbethanymarshall.com Trace Sargent -K9 handler/PI firm the family contacted for help: Leigh Egan - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter Donna Williams WRBL News Columbus Georgia TIPLINE: Georgia Bureau of Investigation 800-597-TIPS (8477)        Dan Boswell - Heard County Sheriff's Office [phone] Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. As we go to air right now, there is a four-year-old and an 11-year-old little boy both asking the same question. Where is Mommy? I'm talking about a 27-year-old beautiful young woman. Natalie Jones is missing. And with all of the scientific and technological developments, including

pinging your phone off the car, North Star in it, so many ways to find her. Somehow, this mom is like a needle in a haystack. And according to friends and family, she would never, ever leave her two boys alone. We are on a mission right now to find Natalie Jones. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. First of all, take a listen to this. 27-year-old Natalie Jones drove her hot pink Chevy Cavalier from her home in Heard County, Georgia to celebrate the 4th of July with friends in Jackson's Gap, Alabama. On the night of July 4th, around 10.30 p.m., Natalie left the festivities to drive home. Lieutenant Dan Boswell of the Heard County Sheriff's Office tells Crime Online that Natalie Jones sent a message to a friend at 12 52 a.m. that simply said, I made it, thanks.

She didn't say where she made it to, just that she made it. There were no further communications after that from her. Lieutenant Boswell says her phone's last ping was with a cell tower at 5 15 a.m. in Heard County, at the opposite end of the county from where she lives. Nobody has seen or heard from Natalie Jones since. Where is Natalie? Two little boys asking that question as we go to air. With me an all-star panel to break it down and put it back together again. Kirk Nermy, former lawyer for Jody Arias, who made headlines. Author of Trapped with Miss Arias, parts two and three, My Final Words. You can find that on Amazon.

Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst to the stars, joining us from Beverly Hills. She's at drbethanymarshall.com. Trace Sargent, expert canine handler. The PI firm the family contacted for help joining us. Donna Williams, crack reporter, WRBL News Columbus. CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Lee Egan, who's been on the story from the beginning, but first to special guest, Natalie's sister, Jessica Bishop. Jessica, thank you for being with us.

For those of you just joining us, Natalie Jones Missing, tip line 800-597-TIPS. Repeat, 800-597-8477. There is a chance to bring Natalie home alive. Back to her sister, Jessica Bishop. Jessica, when did you first learn Natalie's missing? I'm just trying to keep it together right now. That just made a little bit more real. Sorry. It was probably July the 6th. I got a text from someone that said, is your sister missing? And so I called my sister, my other sister, Tabitha, and I said, what's going on? And she said, we haven't heard from Natalie since July the 4th. So that Monday they had filed a missing persons report.

How often do either you or your other sister text or hear from Natalie? I mean, I text back and forth with my brother or his wife practically every day. And my sister and her children out in California, probably every other day. We're pretty close contact. And of course, my mom is here with me. So all of us are in very close contact. How often would either you or your sister contact Natalie, by text or by phone or in person? My sister Tabitha, she would see Natalie almost every day for the last month before she went missing. She would text, call on a daily basis. They lived probably a couple miles from each other.

Oh, you guys are so lucky to be close to family. How far away do you live from Natalie? I live probably 20 miles away from where she stayed at her mother's house. Oh, so she stayed with her mom. Okay, so there's another close family connection. Let me ask you this. The drive, she went from her home to a party on July 4th. How far was that drive? How many miles or how many minutes?

It was about an hour and a half drive. Man, I make that kind of drive back home to my family home all the time and don't think twice about it. Right. Let me bring in the reporters on the case with me. It's Natalie's sister. But first, take a listen to our friends at WRBL News 3. We just want her home. Period. We just want her home. That is our main goal. 27-year-old Natalie Pearl Jones was last seen in Opa-locka near River Trace Drive. Jones is about 5'3", weighing about 130 pounds.

Since her disappearance, the family has been searching for Jones. What we've done as a family is just hours on the road, driving the route that she may would have taken, going down dirt roads in Franklin and Ephesus, around the Ephesus area. We've just done a lot of driving. Bishop Tote News 3, the Heard County Sheriff's Department is leading the investigation, not the GBI. Bishop describes her sister as someone who is outgoing. She says the most important thing to her is her children, and next month she has a 5-year-old that will start school for the first time.

Oh, gosh. Who would miss your child starting school? No mom that I know. Straight out to CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter Lee Egan. Lee, what do you know? Well, exactly what Jessica said. She went to a friend's party on July 4th at around 12 52 a.m. on July 5th was the last known message from Joan's phone. She supposedly sent a message back to her friends in Jackson's Gap, Alabama, and said, thanks, I made it. Now, she never said where she made it to, just that she made it. And that was the last they heard from her.

I think it would be implied that I made it home since that's where she was going. I made it. I often send that text, hey, I'm here. And of course, my husband and children know what I'm talking about. That makes sense to me. But Lee, who is this friend? Who's the friend that the party she went to? Well, there were several, several people. There are several friends. And are they men or women? Both. Both men and women. Where does she know them from? She knew them from just friends, you know, childhood. It might have been childhood friends.

Hold on, let's ask Jessica. Let's ask Jessica because I find that important. Was she traveling to see a boyfriend? That's significant to me because the first place you look is boyfriends, ex-boyfriends, husbands, lovers. To Jessica Bishop, who was having the party, Jessica? It was a former ex-boyfriend or former boyfriend of Natalie's. They weren't in a relationship at the time. They had became friends, but he had previously been in a

relationship with her. Yes. Okay. So all of that boiled down as an ex-boyfriend. Is that right? Yes. Now, Jessica Bishop, I think I heard you say, and his parents. So does the ex live with the parents? That's not their home. That was more of their weekend kind of getaway type home. Like what, on a lake or on a mountain, something like that?

It's on Lake Martin. It's right off of Lake Martin. Okay, hold on. I'm writing all this down, Jessica. Sorry for interrupting. So we've got the ex-boyfriend. Is he the father of either of these two children? No.

Okay. Ex-boyfriend. How long have they been broken up? Oh, for a while. I don't know exactly a week a month two years ten years at least i've got one ex-boyfriend i dated in high school okay haven't seen him since so that's one ex-boyfriend there are others so how long this is a high school boyfriend a college boyfriend a work boyfriend how long have they been broken up it's significant

well to be honest technically i, I would say I would, this is just, I guess, at least a year. Okay. Stop right there. Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. Sorry, Jessica. I've got one hour to get this story out there and to glean all the facts I can. So this is going to be rapid fire. I want to find your sister, Bethany Marshall, excuse me, Dr. Bethany Marshall. It's very important as to how long they've been broken up. You understand, right? Nancy, it's so important.

Not only how long they've been broken up, but what was the nature of the relationship? Who broke up with whom? Is he upset that she broke up with him? Has he been stalking her? Again, just to jump straight to the point, Nancy, when somebody goes missing or is a victim of homicide, we look at their most intimate relationships because in the context of intimate relationships, that's where there's resentment, rage, rejection, betrayal. So in the context of close relationships, homicidal feelings can emerge.

I'm sorry to put it so factually and scientifically. Dr. Bethany Marshall, we ain't at a tea party. We're not at a church circle meeting right now. So let's just get down with it and figure out what's going on. But I have to interject. If this guy was stalking her, which I have no evidence of that at all, I doubt she would have driven an hour and a half to go to a party with him and his parents. Unless she was under

the nature of the relationship who else was there what was happening on her social media and what were the nature of all the other relationships in her life was anybody preoccupied with her crime stories with nancy grace Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a missing 27-year-old mom of two, a 4-year-old and an 11-year-old little boy. They're starting school without mommy. Where is Natalie? So to you, in a nutshell, Jessica Bishop,

were there any lingering feelings between her and the ex? I don't think on her part that she had any romantic feelings towards him. He had expressed afterwards that he just wanted to find her and he was worried. Other than that, I got no indication that they had any type of romantic involvement, that they were just friends. Joining me, Trace Sargent, canine handler with the PI firm, The Family Contacted for help. Trace, thank you so much for being with us. What can you tell us, Trace? Well, the family reached out to me to help locate Natalie, and we, of course, jumped right in and boots on ground.

We checked around Natalie's home where she was living at, which was her mother. We checked around there, found nothing. We also checked several other places with the dogs. I met with Lieutenant Boswell with the Heard County Sheriff's Office. He provided me a lot of great information. At this point in time, we've exhausted all areas to search, but we're still very active, and we hope that your cast and highlighting this case will give us new tips and leads and new areas to search. Straight to Donna Williams, WRBL News, Columbus, Georgia. Donna, help us out.

What can you tell us? Tell me everything you know, Donna. You know, after speaking with her sister, I can see that she was very close-knit with her sisters. And for her to just disappear, and my thing is, she has a pink car. So someone had to see something with this pink car. You know, it's not every day that you see like a bright pink car just riding down the street. And I've been up to Herrick County. So around that area, it seems to be close knit. So someone knows something. You know, you just brought up something really important, Donna Williams, WRBL News Columbus.

My very first note at the top of the page says hot pink Chevy. So this car is not just pink. It is hot pink. Now, the only time I really see a pink car, have you ever seen those pink cars, Jackie, and they're Mary Kay, I think is the name of the cosmetics dealers. Yeah, the Cadillac. Yes. And if they sell X numbers of dollars worth of Mary Kay, they are gifted a pink, it's

a Cadillac. And you can't miss it. You don't really see a lot of pink cars. And you're telling me this was hot pink? Yes. Yes. Hot pink. A hot pink Chevy.

Now, see, that's something that you would remember. And I want to get down to the ping. The ping. Donna Williams, WRBL News Columbus. What can you tell me about the pings that have surfaced on the phone. Well, what we saw was the last ping that they saw was, of course, the text message and off the towers. But, you know, with social media, you can pretty much find a personal location within 15 minutes. You can go through tag Facebook pictures on Facebook to see a person's last moment. You mean geotagging? Yes. So when you guys, if you don't know it, if you have geotagging on your phone or you haven't turned it off, when you post, it will show exactly where you are. Now you may want that, but in this case, it would be very helpful. Take a listen to Shanee Hur, AWXIA-TV 11 Alive. No one has seen Natalie Jones since July 5th. Jessica Bishop says her sister, a mother of two, just disappeared without a trace. It's been excruciating. We have no idea. It's literally

like she was just picked up out of nowhere and vanished. The Heard County Sheriff's Office says Jones was last seen in Jackson's Gap, Alabama in her hot pink Chevy Cavalier. Her family says they were told her cell phone pinged off a tower in Franklin, Georgia that day. Bishop says shortly after Jones was reported missing, investigators searched from the air and on the ground, but found nothing. We don't know what to do anymore because we, like I said, we go and search, but we don't even know what we're, where we're searching for. I mean, you know, where we're searching at anymore. Guys, I'm trying to figure out if her car had any type of tracking device. Trace Sargent. Okay, Trace, her vehicle, I know that's a hot pink Chevy, but did it have any geo device in it, you know, that could help track her? From my understanding, she did not. It was an older vehicle. So she didn't have any electronics

actually installed in the vehicle for the manufacturers. Like a navigation tool. Correct. No, to my knowledge, there was no navigational tools or tracking tools on her vehicle. You know, earlier I said North Star. I meant OnStar. And I think that she's right to you, Lee Egan, that newer cars have OnStar in there or some other type of navigational tool. The significance of that is that it can then be pulled up, the data can be pulled up, and you can see where the car has been through the manufacturer. If it's an older car, unless you've put it in the car, the car doesn't have it. Jessica Bishop, sister of Natalie Jones, did Natalie have anything like that in her car?

No, there was nothing like that in her car. She use Waze or Google Map? She, I don't, I think she used just the, she had an iPhone, so there's just a map, you know, on your iPhone. But she knew the code. Hey, I got a question. I got a question. We have something called Life 360. My husband found it, and I love it.

And I can see, I made the decision for better or worse to give the children cell phones. And you can see where they are, even if for instance, they went and sang with their school last year at Disney. A lot of schools had their, they played their instruments, their band played. And we could see them like where they were walking around within Disney because they had their phones with them on the live 360. Did she have anything like that on her phone? No, she didn't. She didn't even have her location turned on for her Snapchat or anything like that. Um, Kirk Nermy with me, a renowned defense attorney and author, Kirk Nurmi. Do you have to have Find My iPhone turned on?

Oh, I think you do. She had an iPhone, I understand. I think you have to have, Jackie, will you look that up real quick? You do. You do have to have Find My iPhone turned on. But that is an excellent way to find you have to have find my iphone turned on but that is an excellent way to find find your phone when you find your phone you find the person would you agree with that what do we do right now Kirk Nermy well I would start with even though she didn't have some of those apps working we have this ping at 12 52 that is in her county but not in not in the area of her home so what we need to start doing

is begin there that is the last known place where there's anything to do with natalie to be found we have this hot pink car i find it hard to believe and i don't know how big a circumference it would be for this cell phone tower where the pings would be to start looking at every single bit of security footage that is around the area, start canvassing the area to see if anybody saw a hot pink car that evening or early morning. Start right there and start working backwards. Did she know anybody in this area? Did she know? Was there a new suitor?

We've talked about the ex. Was there somebody who was interested, who maybe was jealous she spent time with the ex? That it was in the area of where this ping went. We need to start at the last known point of contact. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a missing young mom, 27-year-old Natalie Jones. You can find out more at CrimeOnline.com or FindNataliejones.com. There is a $10,000 reward. Take a listen to this. The family is desperate to find Jones, someone they say wouldn't just go silent. She's always on social media, posting pictures. Either she will take her children or

she always lets her children know where she's going. She lets one of us know where she's going. Being a mother, Bishop says Jones especially wouldn't disappear knowing her kids need her. Her youngest son keeps asking where his mom is. He called Natalie's mom and you know said I don't want to talk. I want to talk to mama. Where's mama at? Where's my mama at? That remains the question. Where is Natalie Jones? Bishop says Heard County investigators tell the family there still aren't any great leads right now. But the search continues. It's a waiting game. It is a waiting game.

Guys, you're hearing our friends at WXIA-TV 11. We know that Natalie Jones' phone pinged in the county of her home. This is what happened. Straight out to Lee Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, Lee, Natalie had driven about an hour and a half to go to a July 4th party. It was a party thrown by an ex-boyfriend and his parents. She leaves the party about 10.30. By all accounts, the ex-boyfriend stays at the party.

And I'd like you to confirm that for me, Lee. That evening, she sends a text saying, I made it. Thanks. I guess thanks for inviting me. I need to find out who she sent the text to. Okay? First of all, can we confirm, Lee Egan, the boyfriend remained at the party? Yes, we can.

Everybody there remained there. Including the ex? Yes. Okay. Two, who did she text? I made it. Thanks. Okay, that's where the issue is because according to the sheriff,

I believe Jessica confirmed this, she used texting apps on her phone. And we don't know, that might have been one regular text she had been texting back and forth with, you know, surrounding the days before, during, and after the party. To Trey Sargent with the PI firm, the family contacted for help. What can you tell me about this texting app? Can't police get a warrant to get into it? Yes, Lieutenant Boswell and I discussed that, and they cannot without further justification in doing that. It's not just a simple matter of,

yes, you can see perhaps an outgoing or ingoing activity, but reading the text is a different legal standard. And that standard is not met in this case at this time. Because the mom is just missing. That's correct. You know what? I hate it when, for instance, children are classified as runaways or women are classified as, so she wanted alone time. That's all BS.

Jessica Bishop, sister of Natalie, there was no indication she wanted to go off on her own and leave her two little boys behind. Can you tell me, Jessica, was she in a relationship on July the 4th? No, not to my knowledge. She was not in a relationship with anyone. There is a $10,000 reward for information leading to Natalie's whereabouts. Tip line 706-675-3329. Repeat, 706-675-3329. Take a listen to this. Another thing that is puzzling and concerning to family members and investigators is that her car, a bright pink 2002 Chevy Cavalier, hasn't been spotted.

The car has Georgia license plate RVE6177. She painted it herself. And that vehicle is not anywhere to be found. Jones is 5' 53 and 130 pounds she has blue eyes brown hair with blonde highlights she has tattoos on each of her wrists one says Isaac the other says Trent a star diagram from shoulder to shoulder and the name Trent with a baby foot on her right foot we are pursuing this because we love her so much. And we're going to continue to do this until we find her.

The family is asking anyone with information or anyone who has seen her bright pink car to please contact law enforcement immediately. Guys, let me tell you some more about the car. The license plate is Georgia R. Robert V. Victory E. Evelyn 6177. Repeat RVE 6177. All of you truckers listening right now, please be on the lookout for a hot pink 2002 Chevy Cavalier with blue stripes on the side, the car was originally red. Anyone that sees the car needs to call 911 immediately. We are also learning that she was not in a relationship at the time. That is significant.

Why, Dr. Bethany Marshall? When you're dating and out in the world, you meet new people. And in this case, meeting new people may equal meeting and encountering more dangerous situations. You know, I'm also analyzing the fact that the phone was pinged in her home county, but still several miles away from her actual home. We all remember the recent case of Kelsey Barrett, the young Colorado mom of a little baby girl whose fiance murdered her. Then he talked to his new lover, the rodeo queen, talked her into taking Kelsey's phone and abandoning it where he wanted the police to believe she would have traveled.

She didn't travel anywhere. He killed her not too far away from her home and burned her body. But the cell phone was taken and thrown off the side of the interstate as if she were en route to see family in another state. So back to you, Trey Sargent, joining us in the PI firm, the family contacted for help. The fact that her phone pinged there is not absolute evidence that she was there. Most likely it is, but it's not absolute. That's correct, Nancy. In any investigation, we always start

at the high probable areas first and work out. We have to assume that where her phone pinged is where she was or presumed to be. So we start at that location, but there's no guarantee where her phone pinged is in fact where she was even in the area. But we have to start somewhere and be logical about it and be smart and efficient. I do want to say it's been really strange since assisting the family in the search for Natalie. We haven't received one tip or lead since her disappearance, which is extremely unusual and out of character, especially when you're talking about a hot pink car. So we're really at a standstill right now in areas to search. So we're hoping that this show will give us some new tips and leads in areas to search.

God willing. Trace, let me ask you this. The terrain where she was last pinged, what kind of terrain is it? It's primarily rural. There are, you know, homes and farms and things like that, but it's not a heavily suburban city area. So that I think you're saying it's rural and not heavily populated. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A young 27-year-old mom of two little boys is missing. She left a July 4th party around 10.30 to 11.30 to drive an hour and 15 minutes home. She texted, we think, saying, I made it, thanks, but she didn't make it.

Where is Natalie? Her phone pinged off a cell tower in the county where she lives. That suggests that she made it that far, but she never made it home. Lives with her mother and her two little boys. Very quickly to Jessica Bishop. This is Natalie's sister joining us. They had separate fathers, and both of them have their both of them have the children and they were involved. Yes, they got them every weekend, if not every other weekend.

So they have been excluded. Is that what you're telling me? I believe one has been excluded. I haven't been informed about the other. What do we know about that, Trey Sargent? Well, in in that situation that is correct what Jessica said um there is some um discussions about the younger son because there was a custody battle going on between the father and Natalie um so they're doing further investigation on that until it's completely cleared of where he was at the time and the relationship between Natalie and him. Pinpointing a cell phone in a rural county such as Heard County can be very difficult. There are only three cell towers covering that entire county.

So long story short, you may get a ping, but that doesn't indicate exactly where you are. While cell phone pings can be traced as close as like three or four blocks, WRBL News Columbus, that is a stretch of road that cops should be focusing on between that cell tower ping and her home. I definitely agree. And I also think it's important to know if she had any friends in that area and to see if they had seen her or heard from her that night when that message went off. I think that's another important factor to know if there was anyone in that area that may have talked to her or was she talking to anyone on her way there. I think those are important factors to know.

And also, if there was any surveillance videos in any of those areas, have those been checked? Have those been watched? Have those been searched? So I think that's another factor as well. Yeah, because we saw in a recent case, Kirk Nurmey, a renowned lawyer who defended Jodi Arias at trial in the missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, her husband's car and his whereabouts were pieced together almost entirely around the hours of her disappearance early, early in the morning after school drop-off based on home and business surveillance video, even surveillance video cams that are in school buses and public buses. When some of the doors open on the bus, you can see Fotis Dulo's car drive-by. It's amazing the way surveillance video, CCTV, can catch a vehicle. So that's an avenue to be exhausted.

Agree or disagree? Oh, I completely agree whatever that whatever that scope is that particular tower every effort should be made to see what security camera what somebody saw because also think about it remember we're talking about this hot pink car that is not only unique but it could be a memorable event especially in an an area like that. What was this hot pink car doing? This is out of the ordinary to have this hot pink car in our neighborhood. People might remember that. So every single camera, every single door should be knocked on

for any kind of trace or recognition of this car related to the area in this tower. You're right, Kirk. I hear somebody jumping in. Who is it? Nancy, Bethany, it's just a quick observation. I was wondering if they had asked the people at the party, was she on her phone a lot on all these social media apps as if she was preoccupied and planning on meeting up with somebody? Or was she more engaged with the people at the party? I think that's important because it really determines, did somebody start to groom

her while she was at the party and then predated upon her after she left? Or was she the victim of some random stranger on the way home? That's a really good point, her demeanor at the party. To Jessica Bishop, this is Natalie's sister. Was there any suggestions she had odd behavior at the party? Yes, her ex, and I had just found out i want to correct myself it's been like seven years it's been a long time since they've been together but yes he did say that she was on her phone a lot during that evening during that time that she was there so she did seem preoccupied by whatever was going on with her phone whatever she was talking about that tells me there better be a warrant and pronto to get all of the text that she was using, that she was sending on an app.

I mean, anybody would know this, especially if you have children. You can text outright on your phone where we can read all the text. Or you can use an app like WhatsApp or House Party or Just Talk. There's a million ways or Kik. There's a million ways to talk and text on your phone without leaving a text trail. And it's not nefarious. People use those sorts of apps for all different reasons. Even my children get on House Party and WhatsApp and they're all talking to each other about homework assignments for Pete different reasons. Even my children get on House Party and WhatsApp,

and they're all talking to each other about homework assignments, for Pete's sake. But those require more evidence to get the search warrant. You're not just getting the warrant from the phone company. You're getting a warrant from an app as well. I don't know what the holdup is. Guys, take a listen to Lieutenant Dan Boswell, Heard County Sheriff's Department. The Verizon tower in Heard County

showed her phone pinged on one of their towers, correct? Well, ping is a term that we use when we have used for locating. So a ping is when we ask the cell phone company to send a signal to that specific device, and then they read the distance that device measures from its location to a tower. So that's what a ping is. But what we did do is we did get a message that shows the towers that her phone was located in certain sectors of certain towers,

and those were in Heard County. That's correct. that her phone was located in certain sectors of certain towers, and those were in Heard County. That's correct. There was a 4.2-mile range from the tower to her phone, and it was on the opposite end of the county from where her home is, correct? It is true. Talia Egan, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. What was she wearing when she was at the party? Hey, Nancy. So she was wearing a pink blouse, white shorts, black sandals with bows. And I want to add that she does have a

few tattoos. She has a star diagram on her shoulder that goes from across her shoulder to her back. Isaac and Trent on each wrist. What else? Yes. And a baby footprint on her right foot. And can I jump in really quick with something that Dr. Marshall was saying? She was talking about she may have been dating other people. Well, she was dating someone much more recently than the man at the lake. And they had just broken off their relationship, I believe, within a couple of months. And he lives in Hoganville, which is pretty cool. I'm not saying he hasn't been named a suspect. I'm just throwing this out there. He lives nearby, like within seven miles of where she does, close to where the phone pinged. He's incarcerated right now for allegedly trying to put a hit out on a deputy, so we haven't been able to actually speak to him.

Whoa, wait a minute. Trying to put a hit out on a deputy? Okay. Yes, ma'am. Question. When was he put in jail for that? That was recent. That was probably a couple weeks ago.

So he was out and about on July 4th was recent. That was probably a couple weeks ago. So he was out and about on July 4th? Yes. He was arrested last week in the Troop County Jail. Yeah, he's in the Troop County Jail. Is this Donna Williams speaking? Yes. Yes. Again, he's not a suspect or a POI, person of interest, but to Dr. Bethany Marshall, why is it so critical that all boyfriends or exes or current lovers or ex-lovers have to be identified and questioned? Nancy, it's important because one of the biggest breakdowns in the dating relationship that will turn homicidal is if a boyfriend feels the relationship is more valuable than it really is, if the girlfriend is not as available as she should be, and then he wants to punish her for rejecting him. That's a very toxic dynamic. And if it happens with a man,

a supposed quote unquote, air quotes, boyfriend, who's actually homicidal, and she's not completely available to him, and there's a breakdown in the relationship. It really says that something could have happened that caused his homicidal instincts to kind of override any effect. And you know what else, Dr. Bethany, her going to the party thrown by an ex-boyfriend and his parents, even though they're no longer involved for the past seven years,

could make those feelings of rejection boil over. We wait as justice unfolds. Tip line 706-675-3329. Findnataliejones.com. Nancy Gray's Crime Story signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart podcast