Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - WHO KNIFED 4 IDAHO STUDENTS DEAD?

Episode Date: November 21, 2022

Four University of Idaho friends are found murdered in an off-campus home. Their killer still walks free.  Madison Mogen, 21; Kaylee Goncalves, 21; Ethan Chapin. 20; and Xana Kernodle, 20, were found stabbed to death in the rented off-campus home the three women shared with two other women. They were killed sometime between 3 a.m. and 5 a.m. on November 13. The Moscow Police Department has received more than 646 tips, conducted over 90 interviews, and are now working with state police, state troopers, the FBI, and multiple behavior and forensics experts to track down the killer. Investigators have not located a murder weapon and continue to reiterate that the surviving roommates are not believed to have been involved in the murders. Moscow Police Captain Roger Lanier has not mentioned if their investigation has revealed any possible suspects. Joining Nancy Grace Today: Dale Carson - High Profile Attorney, Former FBI Agent, Former Police Officer, Author: Arrest-Proof Yourself, DaleCarsonLaw.com  Dr. Jorey Krawczyn - Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S., bw-institute.com  Joe Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, Blood Beneath My Feet, Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan" Audrey Conklin - Reporter, Fox News Digital, Twitter: @audpants   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Four beautiful young college students massacred, slaughtered, some sleeping in their beds. I'm talking about the slaughter of University of Idaho students. The case unsolved. The murder weapon not found. The killer on the loose. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111.

First of all, take a listen to our friends at the Today Show. The most pressing facts are still a mystery. No murder weapon. No motive. Not even a suspect description. Devastating for the families of Zanna Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, Maddie Mogan, and Kaylee Gonsalves. Praying for justice in their grief. Turn yourself in. You owe it to these mothers of these children, these fathers, these families. You're wrong. Turn yourself in. And so far, the police say that they've received about 500 tips,

and they're asking for even more tips from the public, from anybody that knows where these victims were the night before they were killed. But right now, the biggest lead seems to be that large fixed-blade weapon, possibly a combat knife. Let me introduce to you an all-star panel to make sense of what we know right now. But first, I want to go to Audrey Conklin, investigative reporter with Fox News Digital. Audrey, thank you for being with us. This, of course, went down on the edges of the University of Idaho along Greek Row at off-campus housing.

What do we know about the area? We know that everything is very close by. All of the places where each of the four student victims were the night before the murders and the early morning when it occurred are all very close together. You could even walk to each of the places. I don't think they did because at least two of them were driven home by a private party, but they're all very close together. You know, that's significant. That puts things in an entirely different light. Now, Joseph Scott Morgan with me, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

star of a hit series, Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. If most people walk to where they're going, Joe Scott, that tells me the killer probably walked there too. Yeah. And, you know,

when you look at this place, Nancy, it's got very specific points of access. There's a big bank of windows in the back of this house on essentially the second level. It's kind of built into the side of a hill. Looks like a split level. It does. And you can assess the place from a long ways away but still have cover.

I think that's significant. And you could only do that on foot. You know, that's significant and you could only do that on foot you know that's interesting that we're i just wonder sometimes joe scott if uh cops do the same thing i did as a prosecutor like we're doing right now sitting around and discussing and talking about possibilities again when you look at this house i'm looking at it right now it looks like a split level there um is um what would you say, huge timbers holding up what appears to be a wraparound patio or a little porch that goes around the back, which would be very easy to get on. When you look at it, I'm looking at the sliding glass doors. The father of one of the victims stated that, and it's very apparent,

that there are two points of entry. One is the front door, which is only entered with a code. Got to know the code to get in. A code like you would see on a rental unit. You know what I mean, Joe Scott, where you punch in one, two, three, four, and the door will open. The other point of access would be that sliding glass door, which for time immemorial has been a sweet spot for burglars. They're really easy to get into, and a lot of people leave them unlocked because they're a pain in the rear end to lock. Yeah, they are.

And sometimes, you know, particularly college kids, you'll forget to do stuff like that. But can I draw your attention back to that door that has the keypad? If folks can find a static picture of that, just that standalone static photo. And if you look to the left, there is a a road a tiny road that runs up the hill now yesterday they had the police out there taking a look at tire tracks or burn marks essentially on the road do you know there's a tree line right there you could park adjacent to that and walk through the tree line and get access to that top level so it would provide cover to get to that second floor that you're talking about that kind of has the balcony the decking area it's kind of built into the

ground it's real interesting the way the whole thing is constructed you said burn marks what do you mean by that well it looks like someone you can kind of see the skid marks in the road like somebody has burned rubber in that area scratched off yeah they have and i really wonder if they went out there and took rubber samples as well off of those tracks that were left behind but here here's the problem there there is absolutely no control of the crime scene when they got the call everybody was looking around and joe you would know this it's really hard to keep people particularly people of rank from going up and looking and seeing the bodies and those sorts of things.

And so the crime scene has been contaminated at the very beginning of this case. Guys, you're hearing Dale Carson, high profile lawyer, joining us out of Jacksonville. And not just lawyer. This is why he's critical today. He's former FBI, former police officer and author. You can find him at DaleCarsonLaw.com. Audrey, Joe Scott, Dale Carson, and also with us, someone we lean on a lot, Dr. Jory Cross, and psychologist joining us, faculty, St. Leo University, research consultant, and author

of Operation SOS. Guys, please jump in whenever you have a thought like Dale just did and like Joe Scott brought up those rubber marks where somebody scratched off near the home. Is it connected? Don't know. Half must investigate. What are they doing right now and what have we learned? I want you to take a listen to the county coroner, Kathy Mabbitt. Most of them had just like one that was the lethal stab wound, yes.

Can you describe what that one might have been? Fatal ones were to the chest area or the upper body area. Were there, and I only ask this because it sometimes determines what kind of a crime this was, a crime of passion, a random crime, a fight, a struggle. Were any of them slashed? Were any of their necks cut? Or were these all puncture wounds? Well, it was a pretty large knife, so it's really hard to call them puncture wounds.

And they were definitely stabbings and um i mean it has to be somebody that's pretty angry in order to stab four people to death hearing our friends uh over at news nation joseph morgan i got a problem okay i got a lot of problems but one of them is that kathy mabbitt who i'm sure is a fine person, is a registered nurse. Wait for it. Who has a degree, a BS in political science and a law degree from the University of Idaho that she got in, I believe, 2006. Could have been 2001.

Did you hear me? I did. A registered nurse with a law degree and a degree in political science. All those things, each in themselves, are spectacular feats. Okay? Really hard to do all that.

But we need a trained medical examiner to look at the wounds and also not to disseminate information until it has been determined by a medical doctor and possibly not even then do I have to say Delphi. Look, I want to know the information just like everybody else. But this is not the time to be releasing information about the wounds of the victims. Because if the killer is watching TV, what's he going to do right now? He's going to take that fixed blade knife and get rid of it. He's going to clean it and get rid of it. Because so much information is being leaked.

And information critical to the case. And there's no central point of control with it. This is what really struck me about her interview. And she'd given one prior to the one that we just listened to. Is that she made a statement before the police ever made a statement i mean an open statement where they gave an interview no offense but shut your piehole lady go ahead no yeah and so that's that's a bit different and i think that a lot of this goes and i'm not disparaging the jurisdiction up there i think a lot of this goes to a lack of experience that they might have with dealing with

mass fatalities like this. People don't think this can happen in your town, and it does. It truly does, evidenced here. Everything demonstrates that you have to be on the same sheet of music. You have to have a point of control for all information that's coming in. It's called sheet of music. You have to have a point of control for all information that's coming in. It's called a command center. You're right, Dale Carson. One of the noticeable things is when you do crime scenes like this,

you've got to cover everything to prevent the environment from despoiling it. I haven't seen one covered area, particularly in the back of the property, where it's likely this individual stood and surveilled the house for perhaps a protracted period of time. And that's why the assaults were on the upper floor. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The assaults were on two floors. We know that there were two bedrooms on each floor. We know that two of the victims were on the second floor,

two of the victims were on the third floor, and the other two roommates who survived were on the first floor, which could be considered, you know, look at it, Joe Scott, an above-ground basement. It's a split-level house. You've got the entry point there on the bottom with the key code. Then the back kind of is built into the side of a little hill. You've got to look at this place to get it. So at first I thought, wow, the two surviving roommates are on the bottom floor, so the perp had to walk up three floors.

He could have very well entered through that sliding glass door, which would have put him at an upper level. Yes, no, Joe Scott. Yes, you're absolutely right. I think he came in through the sliding glass door. The more I'm reasoning it through, look at the house. Guarantee you he came through that sliding glass door. Although a lot of people seemingly had the code to that front door.

Guys, take a listen now to our cut 40, our friends at KREM. New details emerging. New details are emerging in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students. Tonight, the Latah County coroner says the four students were likely asleep. Some had defensive wounds and each victim was stabbed multiple times. Authorities found no sign of sexual assault. Moscow police say at this point in the investigation, they do not believe the two surviving roommates or the man seen standing near a local food truck were involved in the murders. Police also addressed rumors swirling online claiming the victims were gagged and tied, saying those are not accurate and the identity of the 911 caller has not been released.

Okay, we do know Audrey Conklin joining us, an investigative reporter with Fox News Digital. Audrey, we are learning more about the person that called 911. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Audrey, but I think that one of the roommates that survived, a surviving roommate, tried to wake up one of the victims. The victim wouldn't wake up. The surviving roommate calls a friend, says, hey, I think she's passed out. He or she is passed out. They came over. They realized she's not passed out. She's dead. They call 911. Police get there and they find the other three victims. That's my understanding. What do you know, Audrey? I haven't heard about one of the roommates trying to wake up one of the victims, but what I can see happening, and this is speculative, but maybe the roommates who we now know lived on the first floor of the house saw or heard something that frightened them, you know, that morning. Maybe without seeing the victims themselves.

Maybe they saw blood. Maybe they saw or heard something that was, you know, not unusual in that household. So they called friends over to check out the situation. Those friends may have seen a victim in their bed not moving, which I think would make the unconscious person report make sense. And they called police from one of the roommate's phones. That's right, because one of the surviving roommate's cell phone was used to call 911, but apparently it was not their surviving roommate. Your construction of the facts makes perfect sense, Audrey.

Guys, take a listen to our friend Kyle Simchuk. Detectives say they've received nearly 500 tips which are being processed, investigated, and cleared. 38 people who may have information about the murders have been interviewed. The whereabouts of the killer and the knife used are still unknown. Detectives seized the contents of three dumpsters on King Road to look for evidence. Police have also gone to local businesses to see if anyone recently purchased a fixed blade knife. Anyone who saw something suspicious, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about the murders is asked to call the Moscow Police Department. Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor of Forensics, Jacksonville State University. A fixed blade knife as opposed to, for instance, a switch blade, it's not fixed, immovable in the hilt, or a pen knife that folds out.

A fixed blade knife is certainly going to be the weapon because it's more sturdy. And we know that these are very deep stab wounds. Explain. Yeah, they're very robust, i would imagine in in their appearance uh that means that the width of the knife and you know it had been mentioned earlier they used the term puncture wound that's not a puncture wound this is going to be a big open wound where the knife is introduced into the body specifically and i think one of the reasons they're drawing this conclusion remember they keep saying military style i think that perhaps what happened there is a hilt guard that's that little bar that goes across the handle that separates the blade from the handle horizontally

across the knife yeah and so i think in most military style knives have those we can see actually a bruise called a hilt bruise lots of times when this is driven into the body. That might be where they're drawing that conclusion from. They've used the term K-bar, which is generally associated with the Marine Corps. It's a combat knife. I don't know that for a fact, but that name has been thrown around. Our Marines have used that since World War II. I've heard that too.

To Dr. Jory Croson joining us, psychologist and faculty, St. Leo University, also author. Dr. Jory, question. Think about it. This is between 3 and 4 in the morning. And apparently, Jackie, I read that one of the victims was making calls up until 2.58. 2.58. Did you see that? Did you see that, Audrey?

That one of the victims is on the phone at 2.58? Yes. Police believe that she was on the phone right before the murders are estimated to have happened. And how was she asleep two minutes later? Very curious timing, but that's got to have been established by phone records or someone that spoke and could look at their phone and go, yeah, it was 2.58. Also, we know that one of the girls continually called an ex-boyfriend, Jack. They shared custody of a dog, I guess is one way to put it, and were maybe even reconciling.

That said, Jack has been ruled out by the family. There was a flurry of phone calls to the friend Jack right before the murders. So the last call is at 2.58 and they're placing the murders between 3 and 4 a.m. two minutes later, yet they say the victims were in bed and likely asleep. To Dr. Jory Croson joining us, the thinking of this perp to go from floor to floor. If the murders were targeted, why kill four? Wouldn't it likely be one of the victims was targeted? Yes, it could be, but then the others just become collateral like witnesses, but also, you know, with a personality, a frenzy attack, you know, once they start the killing, then it just, you know, the deviancy just produces that behavior to kill again.

I'd be real interested in knowing the sequence of who was killed first or how the bodies were found. And, you know, I think you could pretty well determine if we knew that, like who was killed, because Ethan, the boy, the male, seems like he would be one of the first to be eliminated. Except that he was likely in the same bedroom with a female, his girlfriend, Zina. So let's think this through. Dale Carson, Joe Scott Morgan, jump in. We're talking about this scenario, and it's really impossible to determine based specifically on the bodies which murder was first.

But other information could tell us that. But think about it. The lights are out. You enter a house. You're going to kill somebody. You have a specific target in mind. You go into one room. It's not the target,

but you kill them anyway. And you work your way progressively and you can determine when you find the target, the target's knife thing is going to be different. And one of the things that you mentioned that's really peculiar to me is that if someone calls and says somebody's unconscious here and they're dead, There's no way you can stab somebody in the chest and really eviscerate it without leaving a tremendous blood trail. So you don't call the police and say, look, there's somebody unconscious. You say there's blood everywhere. Somebody's dead. Something's wrong with that.

Killings were so instantaneous, which belies the argument that there are multiple sad ones. What about it, Joe Scott? Yeah, I'm thinking there is an outside possibility that science could have the answer here. And this is what I believe. If they are careful in collecting their evidence, the person who was the first to be attacked will have the least amount of others dna on them and what i mean by that is once that knife assuming of course that they're using only one instrument once that blade is introduced into that first person's body they withdraw that blade okay they

now move over to the next person and then reintroduce that blade into the next victim's body and so forth and so on there's your sequence you have what's yeah you have what's referred to as co-mingling of blood and certainly biological material dna so the person if they work their trace evidence right at the scene the person that has the least the least amount of dna from someone else there's a higher likelihood that person could be the first victim nancy guys take a listen to our cut 43 this is sarah robinson along with family members he says zanna was in constant communication with her family and nothing about that night seemed unusual. The door locks with the number code.

Uh-huh. Every time you open it, like I had to go back to the, I had to go around the house to get in the house because of the number code. So they either knew that or they just kind of went around and found the slider open. A father struggling to understand how this could have happened. Why Zanna? They were just hanging out at home. Yeah. Zanna was hanging out at home with her boyfriend.

The code on the front door, the sliding glass door on the side of the building affixed to a little patio, kind of a wraparound patio. What's the point of entry? Because there you will find fingerprints. And I say absolutely you will, because this type of frenzied attack is not conducive to the mind of a killer who would wear gloves and then conduct four frenzied attacks. That is inconsistent. What do we know investigators are doing right now? They are retracing the steps. Two of the victims were at a sports bar and then a food truck. Two of the victims had been to a fraternity party at the Sigma Chi house and then came back to the residence

on King Road. Why? Because they are looking for suspects. Take a listen to Amanda Rowley at CRIM. Investigators believe Madison and Kaylee were at the Corner Club on Saturday from 10 p.m. to 1.30 a.m. Sunday morning. Then they were at the Grub Truck on Main Street at 1.40 a.m. Five minutes later, the map says they returned to their home on King Road. Investigators also believe Ethan and Zanna were at a party at Sigma Chi from 8 to 9 p.m. Saturday night, then returned to the King Road home at 1.45 a.m. on Sunday. The hope is that someone might remember being at or near these locations around the same time and potentially saw something suspicious or relevant to the investigation. Police are asking those people to call the tip line number or email that information.

The tip line is 208-883-7054. Repeat, 208-883-7054. Dale, is that you jumping in? Go ahead. Yeah, that's just a dead end street. Look, the individual who murdered these folks was laying in wait, backed up on the hill, came in through that sliding glass door and perpetrated the crimes. He has no association with other people. And you're likely to find that the individuals either living in the woods, like individuals in prior cases that are not part of polite society. They're not part of our society.

And you can see them. They're living homeless. They're different than us. And they feel alienated from us. And that's one of the driving features that causes them to injure us, aside from any other psychological problem that they have. What do you make of that to you, Dr. George Cross? I agree with it. I think this person is going to be like a transient person with no real ties to that community. You know, in college towns, you know, they can blend in real easy with the students, you know, and the people

that go unnoticed, be anonymous, basically. And then just like Dale was saying, you know, if they get a fixation, stalking, or see a target, and then they're gone. They're in and out. Okay. Joe Scott Morgan, how does that jive with police theories that this was a targeted attack? Well, yeah, I think that there's a chance that this individual has been watching for a while. Again, I go back to this idea of the points of observation.

If they had been tracking these girls, listen, it would have been the perfect environment that night. If they had been watching them on any level, watching them go to parties, they're walking around. Remember when we saw that image at the food truck, they're kind of jovial, laughing, cutting up. They had been out partying that night and they were perfect targets at that moment in time for somebody that was looking to strike. And again, brutally cold at night, this person feels comfortable moving around in that environment.

You saw everybody was wearing hoodies, jackets, and all that sort of thing. They would have to be comfortable in that environment walking around. So that might go to the point that they are transient, that they're not part of polite society. We are learning more and more about the timeline. That's the first thing you do is try to establish a timeline. Take a listen to our friend Zerreen Shah. A sister of one of the four college students found murdered at an off-lee and Maddie the night of from about 10 15 until shortly before 3 a.m. Olivia Gonzalez says she discovered at least six calls from her sister

Kaylee's phone between 226 and 252 made to a boyfriend in the early morning of November 13th. Detectives now saying these phone calls are a part of their investigation. The phone calls are critical because we know that Gonsalves was up, Zanna was up at 2.52 a.m. Let me think that through. 2.52 a.m. it was Kelly, not Zanna Curnoodle. Kelly was up at 2.52 a.m. on the phone. Yet, Algie Conklin, they're starting the timeline of their murders at 3 a.m.

Right. So police have said that between 3 a.m. and 4 a.m. is when the murders occurred. So they could have been asleep. But, yeah, phone activity shows that they were up and trying to contact people right before the murders occurred. It's very creepy to Dr. Jory Crawson to know that one of the victims, Kelly, Kelly is on the phone at 2.52 a.m. and the timeline sets the murders at 3 a.m. Could someone have been watching and when the lights are turned off, they enter the home? They could have already been in the home.

Okay. And waiting, you know, for settling down, like hearing a conversation on the phone. Okay, let the phone get hung up. One thing you mentioned earlier about the weapon, and they were looking and checking at the stores to see if somebody bought. I would think this individual, this weapon is really important to them. I don't think they just went out and bought it. I think they've had it for a while.

This has been part of that identity. If you like, for a better psychological term. Well, it is actually an identity. Every time that we go camping, when we run into other campers, a lot, and it's usually men,

will have huge hunting knives and sheaths attached to their belts. The way people will attach like an iPhone or some other instrument or tool to their belts. These knives are attached to them. So that does speak to their identity. Yeah, and you know, here in the South, everybody carries a knife. They've got those clip-on ones. I don't know about that because I don't know a single soul that carries a knife

other than the scout troop leader, the man, not the woman. Okay, well, you guys go ahead and carry a knife. That's your business. Take a listen now to Captain Roger Lanier with the Moscow Police. On the morning of November 13th at 11.58 a.m., a 911 call was... On the evening of November 12th, Kaylee Gonsalves and Madison Wogan were at a local bar and were later at a food truck in downtown Moscow. They arrived home at approximately 1.45 a.m. on the morning of November 13th. Ethan Chapin and Zanna Kernodle were at the Sigma Chi house before also arriving home at approximately 1.45 a.m. Two surviving roommates were also out in the community and they returned home at approximately 1 a.m. and did not wake up until later that morning. crime stories with nancy grace okay right now cops are scouring the area for video surveillance

i'm talking about ring doorbell cameras stop light cameras um business surveillance video, such as at the corner bar where they were, two of them were that night, at the food trucks where we spot two of the victims at the food truck just before their murders. Was that you, Dale? Jump in. It was. Look, they're going to find a sniper's hide up on the hill behind that house. That's where their evidence is going to be. This person has waited for them to come home. He didn't follow them. He wasn't watching them and following behind them in a car or on a bike.

He was waiting. And that's where the first investigation should have been conducted candidly. Now, I taught serial killers for the Bureau for a number of years. Those people have the patience of Job. They will wait and wait and wait until the opportunity is perfect from their perspective. What we've got to worry about is there's another pet that was killed, and I handled a case or was involved in a case involving that sort of thing, where the pet started going missing first, and

then there was a homicide that was directly connected to the individual who was taking the pet. Hold on. Audrey Conklin joining us from Fox News Digital. Has a connection been made in any way from a pet to the quadruple murder? No connections have been made yet between any kind of animal violence and the murders, but I'm sure that's something police are looking at. What about this theory, Audrey? What about the theory that the perp came into the home while everyone was gone? Every single person

was out of that home. All six were gone. The five roommates and the boyfriend, Ethan, all gone. When they come home and he's already in there and everybody starts settling down to sleep, I wonder if it happened like that. Or Joe Scott, did he enter after they were asleep through that sliding glass door? What do you think? You know, first of all, when I heard about this,

I really had thought that this guy was possibly laying in wait inside the residence. I mean, he could be in there for any reason, looking for food, looking for money, looking for something to steal, and then everybody starts coming home. He may have thought they were away. Yeah, and you know, it's like dale was saying this is this is this individual's sole focus in life perhaps his target he can sit there and he can sit there and wait and wait because he's totally fixed on these individuals as targets or maybe one of them that he's wrote in on and it would not surprise me if they were to find evidence within the house that he had been hiding somewhere, sequestered somewhere in that house and waiting for them to come in.

But we just we don't know. And given given the fact that that there was, it seems at least that there may have been a lack of security at the scene when processing. And look, you have to say things are chaotic at the beginning with many times like this. But it's troubling to me. I hope they haven't missed something outside the house. The dog, Dale Carson, is talking about a high-profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, former fed with the FBI. A woman who lives near the quadruple murder there in Idaho,

about three miles, says her little mini Australian shepherd had literally been filleted a few weeks before the quadruple murder, making some people think that the two are connected. Back to this. Take a listen to Chief James Fry. Detectives are looking to develop any context content that would help us in this event. Anyone who has observed any notable behavior or has any video surveillance or can provide relevant information about these murders please call our tip line at 208-883-7180. Or you can email the tip line at, and that is at tipline at ci.moscow.id.us. And more from Captain Roger Lanier. Listen.

On the morning of November 13th at 1158 a.m., a 911 call was placed to the WICOM dispatch center reporting an unconscious person. The call originated from inside the residence and was made from the phone of one of the surviving roommates. Moscow Police Department officers responded and located four victims, two on the second floor and two on the third floor. We're getting a little clarification regarding who made the 911 call. Take a listen again to Chief James Fry. Gotti Schwartz, NBC News. Just following up on the 911 call, you said that you don't believe that's the killer. Can you conclusively rule out the person that called 911

from inside the home as a suspect in this case? Can you go ahead and just ask that one more time, please? Yeah, the person that was inside the home that called 911 that was not one of the roommates, can you conclusively rule that person out as a suspect at this point? I don't think I said that it wasn't one of the roommates. I said that it was used with the roommate's phone. I believe somebody asked if that was the killer and you said no. No, that's correct. There was other friends that had arrived

at the location. So that goes back to what Audrey Conklin from Fox News Digital was telling us, that one of the roommates apparently couldn't wake up a victim. Maybe she just called her through the door. I don't know. And then she, the surviving roommate, called friends over. The friends come over. One of them uses roommate's phone to call 911. There's a lot that's been made about who called 911. It's a friend of the surviving roommate and they have been ruled out as suspects along with

the surviving roommates. Here's more from Captain Roger Lanier. Investigators have determined the two areas of interest within the city and have provided maps which are on our Facebook page and on our website and these are areas that they have canvassed for additional surveillance video and tips and have contacted several residents in the areas. The areas are generally south of Taylor Avenue to Palouse River Drive and west of Highway 95. Detectives have also canvassed several other neighborhoods looking for evidence, looking for additional surveillance video, and contacting residents and speaking to them to see if they may have heard or seen something. To you, Jessica Morgan, I think that what the police need to be doing right now,

and I've got it narrowed down to four or five things. One, looking for the suspects and retracing. That would include Corner Club where Morgan and Gonsalves went, then the Grub Truck, and, of course, the Sigma Chi House, to look at all the ring cams, the doorbell cams, the surveillance video. The DNA, there's no way that this scene could have played out the way it did without fiber, fingerprints, DNA, hair, and they're going to have to use ancestral DNA. And I'll tell you why. Because I believe that the perp may not be in CODIS or APHIS. They may get a fingerprint or DNA at the scene, but they don't have anything to match it to.

Explain. Yeah. You know, I've got to tell you, I don't know that i agree relative to fingerprints i think that this person probably has been an offender at some point in time possible if they can recover a late if they can recover a latent print at that scene and trust me this is an evidence-rich environment this place would have been bathed in blood nancy he's going to transfer a lot of stuff and he can totally potentially have left bloody fingerprints behind if he's not wearing gloves and it's like you said at the

open i don't know that this guy is sophisticated enough to have shown up with gloves no no way he has a real real desire to run his hands over these surfaces i would imagine so he's gonna leave something of himself behind. Absolutely. Somewhere out there are bloody clothes, bloody shoes. Yeah. One more thing I have to emphasize, as feverish as this was, Nancy, there is a high probability that this monster cut himself in the midst of this.

He may have left his DNA behind, co-mingled with the victim's DNA as well. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.