Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Why actor Robert Wagner is now a 'person of interest" in Natalie Wood's death

Episode Date: February 5, 2018

For the first time since Natalie Wood's body was pulled from the cool Pacific waters off Catalina Island in 1981, investigators have publicly identified a "person of interest" in the superstar actress's death. A Los Angeles Sheriff's detective says her husband, actor Robert Wagner, is a person of interest in the wake of new evidence from witnesses who recently came forward. Nancy Grace discusses what's new in this infamous cold case with Marti Rulli, author of "Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendour, Cold Case Research Institute director Sheryl McCollum, and RadarOnline.com reporter Alexis Tereszcuk. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. Actress Natalie Wood is dead at 43, the apparent victim of a drowning accident on Santa Catalina Island in California. Bombshell now. After years of investigation, in the last hours, movie and TV star Robert Wagner named a person of interest

in the horrific drowning death of his wife, movie icon Natalie Wood. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What led them to finally announce a person of interest? Many people arguing that's legal cop talk jargon for a suspect. Mystery swirling around the night that Natalie Wood seemingly falls from her boat, her yacht, the Splendor, or from its dinghy and dies in the dark waters around Catalina Island, which is really LA, Los Angeles County. What really happened? The autopsy report didn't jive with the theory it was an accidental drowning, according to many.

Right now, breaking news that may have led police to name her husband, Robert Wagner, TV star, a person of interest. Joining me in all-star lineup, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute, who has personally investigated the case. Alexis Tereszczuk, investigative reporter with RadarOnline.com and special guest, the author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor, Natalie's yacht's name, Marty Rooley. First to you, Alexis Tereschuk. The L.A. County authorities now naming TV star Robert Wagner as a person of interest in a potential homicide. What happened, Alexis? So the police have said they recently have received hundreds of new tips and they have two new witnesses that have come forward and that have given them enough information that they are saying that they are now determining this to be Natalie's death to be a suspicious death. They say that these witnesses have provided a

completely different account of what happened that night and that they are so credible that they've reopened this case and they're going to investigate it as a death, a suspicious death. Guys, this is a major bombshell, a major bombshell. In the last hours, we learned new witnesses reportedly tell detectives they saw TV star Robert Wagner arguing with his then wife, Natalie Wood, on his boat, their yacht, the Splendor, just moments before she drowned in a horrific incident. He is now named a person of interest by the LAPD. The drowning death long deemed, quote, suspicious by police, but they never did anything about it. But six years ago, they suddenly reopened the investigation. Was it from pressure from the press?

I know last year at CrimeCon that we had in Indianapolis, we focused an entire evening along with Cheryl McCollum's Wine and Crime. She did the wine. I did the crime. Cheryl McCollum, we focused completely that entire night with the help of about 150 amateur sleuths to dissect the case. And joining us was her sister, Lana. I think this is the right call, Nancy. I think it's overdue. Back to Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com. Any idea who the new witnesses are? The police have been very, very tight with this information. But one thing that they said, some more information that one of the witnesses heard crashing and yelling from

Robert and Natalie's stateroom. So that is somebody who was probably on a boat right next to them because they could hear this. So this is a huge, huge change. They've never said this before, but they heard this yelling, crashing in their room, showing that there was a fight going on between the two of them, even though Robert has said there wasn't one. Here's the thing, Alexis Tereschuk. If they are saying that this is a homicide, there are only a few legitimate suspects, and they would be the people on the boat. The people on the boat were the boat captain, who I interviewed extensively,

Christopher Walken, her co-star, Natalie's co-star in Brainstorm, and Robert Wagner. And Natalie herself. I really do not believe it's the boat captain that leaves two people walking and her husband, Robert Wagner. Now, at first, the boat captain, Davern, didn't come clean, but I got a hold of him. And this is what Natalie Wood's boat captain, the yacht master, tells me on HLN. Dennis, what happened that night? Was there an argument on the yacht? Yes, that night there was an argument that actually started the day before.

But that particular night in the afternoon, Christopher Walken and Natalie, they had gone ashore to a restaurant, which was the only restaurant on that part of the island, and the tension was building throughout the whole weekend of Robert Wagner being jealous of Christopher Walken. And that afternoon, Robert Wagner and myself, we joined Christopher and Natalie at the restaurant for dinner. And we had dinner, we had drinks. Robert Wagner said it was time to return to the boat. Natalie, we all kind of wanted to stay a little longer, but RJ said, no, we're going to go back to the boat. So we all went back to the boat.

You know, I want to go to Marty Rooley, special guest joining me in addition to Cheryl McCollum and Alexis Tereshka. Guys, for those of you just joining us, bombshell now. TV star Robert Wagner named a person of interest in the death of his wife, Natalie Wood. Marnie Rooley, author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor. You can find it on Amazon.com. It just struck me. Guys, you're hearing me speaking with Natalie's boat captain, Dennis Davern. Marnie, why is it that everybody wanted to stay at the restaurant and have a good time,

but Robert Wagner says, no, we're going back, so everybody just packs up and leaves? Why is that? He wanted to get back to the boat because what he told Dennis that night was he didn't like partying in public, which didn't correspond with the many years before that he partied in public at the restaurant. He was jealous of Natalie and Christopher Walken, and it carried over into every activity they had that weekend. But what I would like to address are these two witnesses in question here that the L.A. detectives are talking about now. These two witnesses came forward very early after the case was reopened, and they substantiated Dennis DeVern's claims of the arguing on the boat, not only for Saturday

night, but also for Friday night. One of the things that happened with me, because it was in the media huge at the time when the case was reopened, about the book, Goodbye Natalie, and about the case being reopened and the testimonial packages and the petition. of people who wanted to let the LA County Sheriff's Department know their claims or accounts and stories about Natalie and RJ called me first to see if I thought they should turn in their account to the detectives. I would just listen and I always advised everyone to turn their story into the detectives. And one time I received a call from a man who said he witnessed Natalie's murder. I did not even talk with him. I highly recommend that he call the detectives. I gave him the number. I pleaded with him to do that. These two witnesses in question have their accounts that are very credible, correspond exactly with Dennis DeVern's story. courtroom, any good high-powered attorney, defense attorney, could ride them about why they waited 30 years, but there's reasons why they waited 30 years, good reason why they waited. They always felt uncomfortable about Natalie's death, but the case was closed. The case was labeled accidental. They thought, okay, so they probably investigated, knew the argument had nothing to do with the death.

When the case was reopened, they thought their story was important, and they are credible witnesses. And now Robert Wagner is named the person of interest in Natalie's death, as he was for several years. Not named, but thought of as the person of interest. But now he's publicly named. So what I think I'm hearing, Alexis Tereszczuk, RadarOnline.com, is that witnesses came forward to Marty Ruling after she published her book and after the case was reopened several years ago. She advised these witnesses to go to police. It is her belief that these are the two new witnesses that police are relying on to name Robert Wagner a person of interest. Is that correct, Alexis? Yes. And that's the thing is the police had closed the case and

they hadn't done anything for decades. And then all of a sudden they opened it back up and people finally came forward. They thought this is something that I had witnessed all these years ago. These are witnesses. There's also been so much media pressure, Alexis. I mean, we've highlighted it here. We have highlighted it at Crime Come with thousands of people attended. Take a listen to what else the boat captain tells me happened the night Natalie drowns dead.

Listen. We all went back to the boat. I tied the dinghy up on the swim platform with a bow line and a stern line. And we all went inside the boat and opened a bottle of wine, put the kettle on for some tea, because Natalie liked to have tea before she went to bed,

and the jealousy was just getting so, so tense that Robert Wagner had picked up the bottle of wine and smashed it right in front of Natalie and Christopher on the coffee table. And at that moment, Christopher stood up, and he went directly to his stateroom, and that was the last I've seen of him for that whole night. At that point, Natalie was devastated, and she went into her stateroom, and Robert Wagner had followed. And they were arguing in the stateroom.

That night, Robert Wagner and Natalie Wood, ferocious fight going on. You turned up your music so they would not think in your mind that you were eavesdropping or trying to hear them, but you did hear them. Yeah, yes, I did. And I kept the music going, but I could still hear the arguing. And then the arguing went on to the deck and moments later later everything became silent. So I thought that maybe they were making up and maybe they were going to go to bed and that was going to be the end of it. So I waited for a little while and I still had the music on and I decided well I'm going to go down below and just I'm going to go to the F deck and just see if everything's okay.

Robert Wagner was standing there, leaning his back against the back of the boat, facing the boat. And he said that Natalie was missing and would I go search the boat. So I immediately went to my stateroom, thinking that maybe she went to my stateroom because she felt maybe that she was safe there. Because the night before, Natalie and I had gone ashore and we stayed at a hotel because there was arguing the day before as well. So I came back and I told Robert Wagner that Natalie was nowhere on the boat. I looked in Christopher's stateroom. I looked in the other empty stateroom, and she wasn't there. So I said to Robert Wagner, he said to me, he said,

well, he said the dinghy is gone too. Well, I just knew that Natalie was so deathly afraid of water and not really capable of taking that boat by herself. But he said the boat was gone and she was gone. And I said, let's turn on the searchlight. We had a very big searchlight. And I said, let's turn on the searchlight to see if we cannot, if we could see her. And he says, we're not going to do that. He said, no. That's from HLN. You know what's very odd, Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Institute, that Robert Wagner, according to what the yachtsman Dennis Davern says to me,

he wanted to move the yacht the night before in a dark, very windy, high tide condition. And Natalie said, no. Why did he want to move the yacht under those conditions the night before? And she felt so strongly about it, Cheryl. She left. She left. She did not want to stay on the yacht the night before her death. And she slept in a hotel. Nancy, there's a couple of things that stick out. Again, people have got to remember, they divorced once. So people need to focus on why that happened. They had major issues before. You and I both know you go back 24 hours and look at this thing. 24 hours before, she's at a hotel because she does not want to be on that yacht with Robert Wagner. That's powerful to me. That means this fight, this argument, this situation has gone on and on for hours. The thing that resonates for me after talking to Marty and talking to Dennis and talking to Lana, I know good and and no underwear and wool socks with no money and nobody with her. She would have gone and got Dennis if she was trying to leave on

her own. Well, what strikes me to Marty Rooley, author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor, is that I've never really thought of it this way. She did not want to stay aboard her own yacht that she commissioned in intricate detail about how it was decorated and fitted. She did not want to stay on her yacht the night before. She got off the yacht and chose to go stay alone in a hotel room on land, then stay on the yacht with her husband, Robert Wagner. She comes back the next day, hoping things have calmed down, and she's dead that night under cover of darkness. And that's a good point Cheryl made. On Friday night, she asked Dennis to take her ashore in the dinghy. It would stand to reason on Saturday night, if she was leaving the boat in the dinghy,

she would get Dennis to assist her. The dinghy had the headlight was broken. It wasn't, she didn't even know how to start the dinghy. It takes a lot to start that type of dinghy. So it's that she was leaving to go stargazing as the first report that ever came out suggested. Stargazing? Yes, it's crazy.

Wait, I've never heard. Oh, you never heard that, Nancy? Who said she wanted to go stargazing? The first report in the media in 1981 was Natalie took the dinghy to go stargazing. It's just her deathly fear of water that would never, ever have happened. Dennis, she would have gotten Dennis. Now, Natalie may have been, okay, afraid of, you know, everyday intruders or the possibility she's a mega star, but maybe she was also afraid her husband might show up. He did fly to North

Carolina when she was filming on location to try to catch her in some devious act. It did not happen. She was there working, as she always did. So that Friday night, Natalie was very uneasy, at some points crying and trembling. She was mad. She was angry. She was hurt. She was scared. And there was a reason for that. witnesses being talked about now saw the argument on Friday night as well. So now there's corroboration for Friday night argument and Saturday night death argument. You know, in my experience, Cheryl McCollum, when victims say things like, I'm afraid, I'm afraid he's going to kill me. They're right. So many homicides that I personally prosecuted. The victims were afraid, like Stacey Peterson. She told people, Drew Peterson is going to kill me. I'm a dead woman. I'm dead.

She knew it was going to happen. But there's so many things that just don't make sense. You've told us many times about when you lost John David at the toy store and what mode you went into. If Robert Wagner wanted me to honestly believe that he searched that yacht for Natalie, believing she was missing, then why didn't he go to Christopher Walken's stateroom? He never once went there. He never once woke him up. He never once said, will you help me find her? That by itself concerns him.

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Police have now stated that TV star Robert Wagner is a person of interest in the death of his movie star wife, Natalie Wood, who died in a horrible drowning incident in the choppy, dark waters off Catalina Island. As a matter of fact, Natalie's sister, Lana, a star in her own right, confronts Robert Wagner. And it's caught on tape by RadarOnline.com. Listen. RJ, I just wanted to ask you one thing. I'm really sorry.

I know the pain that you're going through and that I'm going through. You know, I know this has not been any easier for you. I know this has not been any easier for you. I know that. But everybody is going to drive me absolutely insane. Until everybody knows, you know. Why won't you speak to the detectives? They're super guys. Clear yourself if you can. Why would you even bring up anything like that? Because I'm hounded with it every single day. Do you realize what you've done?

No. What have I done? Do you know we have a family? Yes. Yes, I know. I'm not a part of it, thank you. But yes, we have a family. I'm amazed that you'd even talk to me. Why wouldn't I talk to you?

I've known you since I was a child. No? I've known you since I was a child. No, I've known you since you were a child. Yes. Yes. Can they go away? I don't know. Young man. Anyway.

I have talked to everybody. I don't know. Kevin and Ralph, I don't accuse you of anything. You accuse me of murdering her, of taking all these positions. It's incredible. I can't believe that you'd do something like that. I just can't believe it. But RJ, you've changed your story. I haven't changed anything. You've never said anything to me. I have never changed anything. You never for one minute stopped and said, this is what happened. I know it's going to hurt me. Of course I did. Not to me. Of course I have stopped and said what happened. No, RJ, you really didn't. Everybody was on top of that. Look at all these people around. Oh, Jesus Christ, no. Alexis Terescheck joining me from RadarOnline.com, investigative reporter. Alexis, what happened when Lana Turner confronted Robert Wagner face-to-face about the death of her sister? She finally was able to do that.

She was able to see him in person and say, Robert, why are you not talking to detectives? They had reopened the case. This is after 2011. They'd reopened the case. And she says, why are you not talking to detectives they had reopened the case this is after 2011 they'd reopen the case and and she says why are you not talking to them what is wrong you are changing your story so many times and instead of addressing her which is what he's done for over 30 years stonewall her he just said why are you doing this we're family and she's so upset she's crying she's like we're changing your story this This isn't fair. You have to talk to the detectives. And he just basically stonewalls her again and again. Alexis, when you analyze what she said when she confronted him,

what do you think is the most significant portion? Robert actually says to Lana, he says, you've accused me of murdering her. And that's why he doesn't want to talk to her or talk to police, which is the only time he's probably ever said the word murder about this situation. It's a shocking admission on his part, even though he doesn't say, I murdered her. He says, you've accused me of murdering her. So he knows that people feel this way about him and his, her own sister. Take a listen to what Natalie's sister, Lana Wood, tells us. Why have you said that Robert Wagner has not cooperated with police? Why do I say it? Because he's never spoken to them.

I don't know why he keeps saying he did. It boggles my mind. That day he didn't speak to them? When it happened, whoever arrived, it was somebody from the coroner's office, and there was that Detective Rasher. They arrived on the boat. They did not question anybody. They took an accounting from everybody.

When did you see your last one of this happen? I'm terribly sorry for your loss, Mr. Wagner. He was then, he and Christopher were flown back to the mainland, and it was Dennis DeVern who had to identify Natalie's body, which horrified me. I mean, I can't, I know it's wrong for me to want someone to react how I would. That's just flat out wrong.

But it boggles my mind that you wouldn't, as a husband, as a lover, as a friend, as a dog owner, that you wouldn't rush to the side of someone that's passed away and want to hold them and want to be there. So I don't understand it. So since that time, he has not spoken to police? No. The only time he has spoken to police was that the day he has never spoken to them. Let me ask you this, Lana. Is it true that detectives told you they were very close to making an arrest in the case?

Absolutely. They came to my home and said that they had everything they needed for an arrest and that the district attorney would not move forward. And I said, I don't understand. And he said, please get that word out because they feel that there's something going on. And I said, fine, if somebody asks me, I will tell them. So they came to your house and said they have enough for an arrest, but the DA is sitting on it. Yes.

Did you believe that they were referring to Robert Wagner? Did they tell you it was Robert Wagner? Oh, of course. Yes.? Did they tell you it was Robert Wagner? Oh, of course. Yes. Yes. They told you it was Robert Wagner. That's what they said. For those of you just joining us, Robert Wagner now named a person of interest in Natalie Wood's death. To Marty Rooley, author of Goodbye Natalie, Goodbye Splendor,

you know, their relationship was so tumultuous. I remember Lana telling me that very often Wagner would say things like, oh, ask Natalie, she's the star. Yes. Robert Wagner was not only jealous of other men that Natalie starred with, but he was also jealous of her celebrity, her iconic stardom, something that he always wanted. He always attached himself when speaking and later in writing to the Hollywood greats. Little anecdotes here and there about Betty Davis or David Niven, even beyond that, Cary Grant. He liked associating himself with old Hollywood, Spencer Tracy and the Hollywood greats. And he never achieved that level, but Natalie had. So there was this deep jealousy for many different reasons within his persona when it came to Natalie.

And sometimes it would come forward when he would say things like that. Where do you want to go to dinner tonight? Well, ask Natalie. She's the star. She chooses first. It was just a little sarcastic way of demeaning her and all of her accomplishments. He wanted her to be a stay-at-home wife. Natalie was Hollywood. She was all about, she worked from childhood and then became a successful adult star. So it just wasn't fair to do that to her. He called her aspirations career demons.

It wasn't. She was a star. Since the time of her death, Marty, what is the trajectory of Robert Wagner's career? Since Natalie's death, he had, you know, he toured doing Love Letters play with Stephanie Powers and then with his now wife, Jill St. John. He had a short-lived show, Lime Street, which was cut short when Samantha Smith was killed in the plane crash. And not much else than that. He has guest roles on a few sitcoms and NCIS, which ironically, he played the father of who played him in the Mystery of Natalie Wood movie. So he who plays Bull now. So it's kind of amazing, Cheryl McCollum, that Robert Wagner's career went on. I don't know.

But Nancy, here's the thing. I think it's important that people break this down and forget Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner for a minute. And when you hear that somebody's truly not searching the yacht, and they're not turning on searchlights, and they're not calling the Coast Guard for help, and they're not themselves screaming their name and almost throwing themselves in the water looking for her. That should be very telling to people. It's very telling to me, and also, Cheryl, if this had been anybody other than so-called Hollywood royalty, they would have been picked up immediately. You're the last person with the

victim. The autopsy doesn't match up to the story. I mean, according to Lana, her own sister, she was deathly afraid of the water. She would do some water scenes, but she hated it and insisted the water be below her chin at all times. And for somebody like Natalie, who put on hair and makeup just to go to the grocery store, she's often pictured with one of the, like a silk scarf tied around her head, very glamorous, because she would not go out unless she was totally in hair and makeup, because she wanted to maintain that image. She always stayed very petite, well-dressed, perfectly groomed. No way would this woman have gone out on a rubber dinghy in the middle of the night

in the ocean water wearing a flannel gown, a puffy jacket, socks, wool socks, and no underwear. I'm just telling you, she would not do that. What else stands out to you Cheryl McCollum with the autopsy versus the story that was spun at the time? The amount of injuries to her body number one. She has injuries to the front and back of her legs. She doesn't have head trauma which means she didn't hit her head and fall into the water. She does have injury to her face. One, she has injuries to her wrist and her ankles and her knees. Again, front and back, which is something you're trained to look for in domestic violence cases, injuries in the front and back of legs. There were, you know, like 300 cc's of urine in her body,

which forensically they need to be able to explain. Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop right there. Regarding the amount of urine in her body, that's very significant. Why? Most of the time, when someone drowns, their body voids naturally at death. So it may be indicative that she was not conscious when she went in the water.

So again, that's something they need to look at very carefully. They need to look at her injury and her height. And this is something I talked with Hernandez about. It was great. They went to the Splenda, but every one of them were like 6'1", 6'2", 6'3". Natalie was tiny. She was a little petite lady. So where she would line up on that yacht is not where they would have lined up. And where she would have lined up on that dinghy is not where they would have lined up, especially if that dinghy were in water. So it's imperative that you look at it from the standpoint of what would it have been for her.

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into the tragic drowning of Hollywood star Natalie Wood. New witnesses now emerging according to police. This has led investigators to deem her death a suspicious death and name her former husband a person of interest, TV star Robert Wagner.

For years, mystery has surrounded Natalie Wood's death. Natalie Wood nominated for three Academy Awards. She starred in West Side Story, Rebel Without a Cause, so many more. Her death went down on the weekend after Thanksgiving. She was on board a yacht with her husband, Robert Wagner, another Hollywood star, Christopher Walken, and the boat captain, who you've just heard from speaking to me, Dennis Davern. After a night of heavy drinking, Natalie found floating dead in the cold water around Catalina Island. This is right off the Southern California coast.

At first, it was ruled an accident. The case was then reopened just six years ago to see whether Wagner or anyone else played a role in her death. That's right, Nancy. As you said, the reopened investigation now has been going on for six years. And just recently, Los Angeles County Sheriff's Detective Corona talked to CBS 48 hours about what has been uncovered and what the result is. Do you believe Natalie Wood was murdered? I think it's suspicious enough to make us think that something happened. Do you believe that Robert Wagner knows a lot more about what happened to his wife than he's ever said? Well, I think he absolutely does because he's the last one to see her. At the time of the incident, her death was ruled an accident.

This new information is substantial enough for us to want to take another look at the case. So over the last six years, have you been able to get even more evidence that makes you question that this was an accident? We have. There are witnesses who were nearby the Splendor that evening. She got in the water somehow, and I don't think she got in the water by herself. Now, one of the witnesses that has come forward describes hearing yelling and crashing coming from the couple's stateroom. After that, separate witnesses hear a man and a woman arguing on the back of the boat. And believe that was Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner.

Now, I'm not just pulling this out of thin air. I'm getting this from a Sheriff's Department spokesperson, Nicole Nishida. She is telling us what the witnesses are saying. The statements differed from the original version of events. Why? Why was a different story told at the time? And if there is a person of interest, is that just a nice way, Cheryl McCollum, of saying suspect? To me, Nancy, it is a definite, we are putting a spotlight on this man. They've never said that before, so it is definitely a step in the right direction.

Now, Natalie's sister, Lana, keeps telling me Robert Wagner has not cooperated. Wagner says he has. But investigators say Robert Wagner has not been interviewed since the investigation was reopened. That's six years ago. They tried ten times, at least, they say, to interview him in 2013. He refused. Why? He denies all involvement in Natalie Wood's death.

No charges have been filed against him. His publicist declines to comment at this hour, but with conflicting versions of what happened. It's not that much of a conflict because Wagner writes in a 2000 memoir that he and Walken argued that night so severely, Alexis Tereschuk, RadarOnline.com, that Wagner smashed a bottle, a glass, in front of Natalie. And Natalie mortified at this display in front of her guest, Christopher Walken, her co-star. She gets up and goes to her room and shuts the door. So he admits there was a violent argument that night. That's not in conflict anymore, Alexis. But it's his version of it. And so far, it seems like what these new witnesses coming forward are completely contradicting what he is saying. He's saying that it was a fight with

Walken and that Natalie was mad. But what the witnesses are saying is it was a fight with Natalie. They're not saying that he was fighting with Walken. Yeah. You know what? Subtle, but very important distinction, Alexis. You're so right. Now, Marty Rooley, we have heard rumors of people in the boat next to them hearing a woman's voice saying, help out in the water. And a man's voice saying, sure, honey, we're coming. Kind of sarcastically. We've heard a lot of rumors, but this seems to confirm those rumors, Marty. Yes, the rumors of an argument, which are not rumors anymore.

There was an argument that Saturday night, but I'm not so sure that Natalie was crying for help, save me from drowning, as was once reported, because the person who reported that did not stand behind that claim when push came to shove and the case was reopened. It's possible they heard the arguing like these other two witnesses heard the arguing and misconstrued it or thought that they heard Natalie in the water. But as Cheryl explained, that 300 cc's of urine in Natalie's bladder that was overlooked in the 1981 autopsy report makes it highly unlikely that Natalie was heard screaming from the water. They may have heard the argument on the back of the boat. You know, another thing, Cheryl McCollum, her body was covered in bruises.

The boat was found with the oars still attached. It had never been put in, I guess, in common parlance, drive or even reverse. It was in neutral. I don't even think it had ever been turned on. It looked like it had just been untied and let loose. Yeah, but she didn't get in that boat. No way. And there's a lot, I think, that would show that

if they would try to recreate it again with somebody of her stature. Here's the bottom line for me, Nancy. Dennis DeVern has come forward. He's talking. He has taken two polygraphs. He has passed. Christopher Walken has come forward and cooperated. Marty's talking.

You're talking. Everybody's trying to talk. Robert Wagner is the only person not talking and not coming forward. So the cloud of suspicion is tremendous. At this juncture, we all know, Cheryl, that just being a person of interest is not enough to allow police to force him to talk. You can't force anybody to give a statement. Now, if it's a witness, if it's a witness, you can hold them in contempt if they refuse to testify because a witness doesn't have a right to the Fifth Amendment to invoke the Fifth. But right now, there's no way they can force him to talk. And he's not talking. If he's's innocent why not talk but here's the great thing Nancy they've got his original statement they've got interviews that he gave where he said yes you must have hit her head and got knocked out and fell in the water they've got his new book where he says he smashed the wine

bottle so they know his story has changed by his own hand. What Cheryl was just saying is so important because the reason Robert Wagner won't cooperate in the new investigation is because if he does, he knows he will incriminate himself. He's already incriminated himself enough. And it's the strongest circumstantial case a crime investigation could have and I hope that celebrity won't interfere with how they move forward and I don't think that his age should have anything to do with holding back or the years and decades between the actual death and the new investigation, because a crime is a crime, and he should be held accountable as any average Joe would be in this type of death.

What is telling is Dennis Davern, the yacht captain, who tells me we didn't take any steps to see if we could locate Natalie. Wagner didn't want me to call the Coast Guard. He instructed me not to turn on the searchlight. He says it was a matter of we're not going to look too hard and we're not going to turn on the searchlight. We're not going to notify anybody right now. The cover-up started immediately. Robert Wagner knew what happened and his fear was for himself, not for his wife, who was in the dark ocean she feared her entire life. Cheryl McCollum, weigh in. To prove what we're saying about Natalie's frame of mind and how she would have never gone out in bedclothes, we told those folks at Wine and Crime,

go online right now. Try to find a bad picture of that woman. It doesn't exist. She was flawless all the time. She would have never, never left left like that would not have happened and they can also go there's a um there's an interview with um robert uh sundance sexy man uh robert played boots and sundance john tom yeah yeah yeah redford redford Where Robert Redford, they're at a party, and he scoops Natalie up playfully and just runs and leaks in the pool with her.

He said he always felt horrible about that because he did not know how debilitating water was for her. Even a swimming pool she was afraid of. She didn't even like getting her own pool in Beverly Hills. She was that afraid of. She didn't even like getting her own pool in Beverly Hills. She was that afraid of water. So these are all things you can hear them say. Pull up Robert Wagner. Watch him talk about her and really listen to what he says. You're going to come to your own conclusion that, okay, this is kind of creeping me out because what he's saying and what we know he did that night are bizarre and

here's the only other thing nancy he did not go and identify natalie at the morgue as next of kin he said dennis devern well in my mind that that's just incredible that's incredible behavioral evidence he has not been shunned by Hollywood. But, you know, Hollywood doesn't write the criminal code. And Hollywood is not going to be sitting in that jury box if it ever comes to that. As of now, through his publicist, Robert Wagner, insists he is innocent and had nothing to do with Natalie Wood's death. He is not a suspect.

He is a person of interest. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.