Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Widow Erika Kirk Breaks Silence @ Charlie Kirk Death Penalty Hearing

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

Tyler Robinson will stand trial for shooting Charlie Kirk to death on a college campus. Robinson is  accusing of firing the lone bullet which tore through Kirk's neck. Three other bullets were found in magazine of the alleged murder weapon, a rifle belonging to Robinson's grandfather.  Robinson faces seven total criminal charges. Aggravated murder is the primary charge. Robinson has pleaded not guilty, but prosecutors are actively seeking the death penalty.   Key evidence in the case: DNA tied Robinson to the recovered rifle. Tool markings matched a Dremel device. Robinson's roommate testified about a direct confession. Text messages written by Tyler Robinson.  A status conference is set for October 23, 2026. Joining Nancy Grace today:Skye Lazaro  -  criminal defense attorney Ray, Quinney & Nebeker, website: www.rqn.com, Facebook: SkyeBeth, Instagram: SkyeBeth1  Dr. John Delatorre  - Licensed psychologist and mediator, specializing in forensic psychology, psychological consultant to Project Absentis: a non-profit organization that searches for missing persons, resolutionfcs.com, Twitter, IG, and TikTok: @drjohndelatorre  Chris McDonough  - Director at the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective,   Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room”,  www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough  Joseph Scott Morgan -  Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, "Blood Beneath My Feet", YouTube Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan", @JoScottForensic Nate Eaton - News Director, East Idaho News, Emmy-nominated journalist.  Host of 'Courtroom Insider' on Youtube Dave Mack (AL) Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Bell, connection is everything. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace Tonight, wife now widow, Erica Kirk, breaks her silence at the Charlie Kirk death penalty hearing. This as conspiracy theories ignite online, and this is after evidence was previewed at the hearing. What is wrong with these people? Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. I want to hear you. Thank you for being with us. Charlie Kirk, he was shot dead.

He was assassinated in plain view. And it appeared that that's where a sniper had laid down with a direct shot of where Charlie Kirk was standing. There is a second gun defense. So it was pretty easy access. Really, anybody could have gotten up on that roof. If convicted, do you think your husband's killer should get the death penalty? I do not want this man's blood on my ledger when I stand before the Lord. I want the government to decide.

There were cameras all over my husband when he was murdered. There have been cameras all over my friends and family, mourning. There have been cameras all over me, analyzing my every move. We deserve to have cameras in there. Why not be transparent? There's nothing to hide. I know there's not, because I've seen. what the case is built on.

Let everyone see what true evil is. I never saw the video. I never will see it. I never want to see it. There's certain things you see in your life that you can never unsee. There's certain things you see in your life that mark your soul forever.

I don't want my husband's public assassination to be something I ever see. I don't want my kids to ever see that. Erica Kirk, wife now widow, speaking to Jesse Waters at Fox. Tonight, as we go to air, we learn that a bombshell lawsuit has been filed by the Kirk family against UVU, claiming that the university knew of the rooftop security risk before the assassination. Look at that. It is SOP standard operating procedure before a major speaker at an event that safety precautions are taken.

The Kirk family is now alleging in written documents the university knew of the rooftop security risk before the assassination and did nothing. They also alleged campus police had no written security plan and only had six officers. for 3,000 spectators? Six officers for 3,000 spectators. How can you even attempt to guarantee the speaker's safety with 3,000 people? Now, granted, Nate Eaton joining me, News, news director, East Idaho News, Emmy-nominated journalist, star of courtroom insider on YouTube,

Nate, they're largely college students who have a low, statistically, low crime rate amongst them. But someone like Kirk attracts all sorts of people, not just the students that attend that college. And in these bombshell legal filings that have just gone down, the Kirk family is claiming, and I haven't even gotten to what happened in the hearing. I'm going to get to that, but this filing has just happened. and six officers for 3,000 people and that they knew about that rooftop security risk and did nothing? Tyler Robinson wasn't a college student at the university. He was able to go onto the campus. I've been on that campus, Nancy.

You can walk without having to do climbing, without having to jump over really anything and get on that rooftop. They're saying that there was no drone flown over the crowd, that there was no security. checkpoints like bag checks where they check your bags as you walk in. There were no metal detectors, that there was no security parameter, that it was basically kind of a free-for-all. Whoever wanted to come onto the campus, walk onto the campus and attend that event, they were welcome to do so. Kirk's family has filed a notice of claim. That's a precursor to a lawsuit against Utah Valley University, claiming that there was a huge deficit.

in campus leadership and security decisions, and those failures led to the assassination of Charlie Kirk. And they go on to state, and I quote, the risk of a rooftop shooter should have been top of mind given the attempted assassination of the president by a rooftop shooter just one year before they also state that the students inform them of of the rooftop access to the Sorenson Center, pretty close to where Kurt was speaking. They had to learn that from the students for Pete's sake. Tonight, conspiracy theories blowing up online even after the preliminary hearing in which the evidence is laid out. Now, I want to go specifically to Tyler Robinson's roommate, his alleged lover and furry

don't care about that. Lance Twiggs. There's Twigs. His testimony. A video. The family had to fight, fight to make it public. I want you to see a tiny bit of that. My name is Lance Twiggs.

And do you know Tyler Robinson? Yes, I do. Or, yeah, I do. And this is the same Tyler Robinson that's been charged with the shooting of Charlie Kirk. Yes. All right, so you said when you first met, you were roommates? Yeah.

Okay. And then at some point, your relationship progressed to something more than its roommates that ring. Mm-hmm. When was that? I think we started dating two or three months after he moved down. Okay. And where did you live at that time?

St. George, an apartment complex. And is that apartment the same place you lived when, on September 10th? on September 10th. Yes. Do you recognize that on this screen there? Yeah, yeah. What do you recognize it as? That was the note under his keyboard that he was referring to in the first text of that chain. So where did you find this? On his desk underneath his computer keyboard. And I assume you read it. Yeah. And then what did you do with it after you read it? I believe I just put it back down on the desk after I took a picture of it. Straight out to Nate Eaton, that from East Idaho News.

What did the lover, the roommate, find under the keyboard? It was a note that Robinson had left him, and it said, if you're reading this per my text, I'm so sorry. And then he goes on to say, I had the opportunity to take Charlie Kirk out and I took it. I wish we could have lived in a world where this was not necessarily. He told Twiggs allegedly to burn the note. You saw some remnants of it there. And then Lance Twiggs, before he burned it, actually took a photo of it. That's why we know what's on the note. And it was basically his final note to his lover should he end up dead or in prison, which he said might be a possibility. And that this was part of his mission that he needed to take Charlie Kirk out. You know, I'm curious to veteran defense attorney, Sky Lazaro, joining us out of this jurisdiction, Sky. So the lover, the loyal lover, burns a note, but takes a picture of it on his phone.

Why? Not so loyal. I don't know that we can answer the question of why as to that. there's a lot of weird intricacies between these two that weaves throughout all of the evidence that Lance Twiggs DNA was found on a lot of things that were recovered from the scene as well. Put her up. So are you trying to insinuate that Lance Twigs did this or he was part of it? Lance Twigs has not been charged. I'm not insinuating anything, but there's some discrepancies in what Lance Twigrant. Well, you just said, well, his DNA was all over the evidence. I believe

I heard that. Did I hear that, Jackie? Yes, I did hear that. You said it. I did. And his DNA was found on the evidence that was testified to at the preliminary hearing. So wherever that evidence came from or wherever that DNA came from, Lance Twiggs was able to give a recorded statement under the preliminary hearing rules in Utah. He wasn't subject to cross-examination. So I think things could change in this case because of that. Okay. Yeah. I don't even know what you're saying. Have you ever heard the phrase word salad? Because I think that's what that just was. I'm going to put some ranch on it.

I'm going to chew it up and spit it out. Okay. So I ask you, why did Lance Twigs burn the note, yet take a picture of it, that anybody can get from the cloud? So he, in effect, saved the note. I guess that's for a shrink. But then you go on to say, well, his DNA was all over everything. In our world, every piece of evidence is or is not probative. So you bring up that the roommate, the lover's DNA, is on some of the murder artifacts, the towel that was wrapping the murder weapon.

What is your point to saying that? Are you suggesting twigs would or could have been named as a co-defendant? I think there's a possibility and why else would you keep a picture of a note other than if you needed it for something in the future? Exactly. Okay, you just hit the nail on the head. Dr. John Deletori joining us in addition to Sky Lazzaro and Nate Eaton, psychologist, mediator, specialty, forensic psychology. You can find them at ResolutionFCS.com. Dr. Deletory, why do people keep murder artifacts? Why ostensibly destroy the evidence? Let's see that again, please, control room. destroy the evidence by burning it, drama, drama, but then take a picture of it so it is preserved forever. Is it like the serial killers that keep mementos, like their victims' driver's licenses or jewelry or underwear? Why keep something so damning?

Yeah, I think when you're talking about someone keeping an item to remember, I think that's one element. Unfortunately, most people aren't real like criminogenic in their thinking, right? They're not really criminals. I think he may have thought he was doing the right thing by burning it, but he wanted to keep something to help him remember what exactly it was that was on that note. That, yes, it's some kind of memorial, but it's more about whatever their lived experience was together. He wanted, when you read that, you think you're never going to see that person who wrote that letter again. You want to keep a momentous.

This ain't a love letter to tell a Tory. It's not like a love letter. It's not like a World War II widow that kept her husband's letters from Europe. Decided to keep these kinds of things not knowing because they didn't watch the wire, right? They didn't see. You don't keep notes on a criminal conspiracy. So this is just something that he decided to keep because he wanted to remember his love. Okay.

I don't agree with you. I don't know why he kept it. I tend to agree more with Sky Lazzaro that maybe he would need it in the future. But Chris McDonough joining us, veteran homicide detective. He is the star of the interview room on YouTube. He's director of the Cold Case Foundation with over 300 homicide investigations under his belt. I don't know why he did it. And the state never has to prove the motive, although a jury likes to hear it.

I don't have to go bungling around in his head to figure out what this lover, roommate, whatever. was thinking, all I know is he preserved it and I'm going to use it. But aren't we happy he did? Because if he didn't, can you imagine the problems we would have a trial trying to get those burned up tattered bits into evidence, much less trying to decipher what they said. And the defense would argue like He-E-Double L. No, that's not what it said. But here we see what it says. If it's you are reading this, he talks about his mission, that he had a chance to take out Charlie Kirk. I wish we lived in a world where this wasn't necessary. If we did not have this photographic evidence, technical Latin term, the state would be screwed. Hey. Yeah, no, 100%. This is critical

evidence that the state needs to get into, you know, into the chain of custody here for the jury. Because there's a couple of things going on here. Obviously, there's a thought process of, is this guy involved, i.e. twigs. And then the state needs to also say, okay, well, if Tyler wrote this, who's going to testify about that? So you have potentially an accessory after the fact lining up, you know, under the law. And that's why immunity came into the conversation here with twigs. They had to put that on the table to get that into evidence as a whole. I wonder if they're going to end up putting twigs on the stand to identify Tidal Robinson as being that person that we just saw it coming down off the roof. We're talking about the

preliminary hearing that has just gone down, yet conspiracy theorists are still going mad, igniting social media with all their zany ideas about, quote, the real, there's the real killer right there. And it's Tyler Robinson, according to what he wrote and said

to Lance Twiggs. We've got a lot more about what went down in that courtroom, but I want you to hear more of what Lance Twig says under oath. And remember, the Kirk family had to fight tooth and nail to get this video,

broadcast to have it admitted in court, played in court. Why? Why was that so difficult? You'd think that this video would settle all the conspiracy theories once and for all, but sadly

it hasn't. You decide. Watch Lance Twigs. Did you see however on September 11th? Yes. When did you first see him on September 11th? So this is the day after this year? Yeah, I saw him

when I woke up. Like I said, he was up and around doing a lot of stuff around the house. Did he talk about what he had done? Didn't go into detail. He just, I just asked him in person if what he said was true the night before, and he said it was. I started crying a little bit and said he wishes he hadn't done it. and then kept going around and just doing stuff, I think, to keep himself busy or distracted or something. Do you talk about what he was going to do next? Eventually said that he would talk to his parents or turn himself over.

There again, you have the lover, the roommate, Lance Twiggs, describing what Tyler Robinson said to him. Did you hear that Dave Mack? He, Tyler Robinson, quote, cried a little and wished he hadn't done it. I mean, what more does a jury need? And yet people online are, and not just online everywhere, are claiming that the wrong person was arrested and is being prosecuted. What is wrong with them? Nancy, it boggles my mind how people have too much time on their hands and access.

to information that they just twist in terms because you pointed it out you have the person admitting why he did it and how he did it and that he is sharing regret also he shares regret with involving his significant other partner in this by doing it so i don't know where people get the idea that well he didn't do it he's a stooge is that what we're going with that he's a lee harvey Oswald Patsy? I don't know. But we have evidence from, you know, Robinson, two twigs that puts him in the moment with the shot. I don't know how much more direct evidence you need. The long loading times. The glitchy video calls. That's your house asking for better internet. Switch to Bell Pure Fiber, Canada's most reliable internet awarded by Open Signal from 75

dollars a month. Price guaranteed for two years on a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for more details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. In addition to what we have learned in this preliminary hearing, it was full of probative evidence. And what's interesting is you see not only a peek at what the state's going to bring on, in their case in chief when this assassination goes to trial, but you also see where the defense is headed.

And you can tell that by how they cross-examine the witnesses. You get their theory, their thinking as to how they're going to proceed. That said, from Lance Twiggs, we move to ballistics, hard evidence. because Lance Twiggs is going to be attacked at trial on credibility issues. You just heard a veteran defense attorney and a homicide detective state that Twigs could easily be pegged as a co-defendant or a conspirator after the fact, maybe even more. Now, we all know he has not been charged in connection in any way to Charlie Kirk's murder, but it's a line of cross-examination. In other words, you're saying all this because you thought you'd be charged and you're saying whatever the state wants you to say, isn't that true? That's how I would start it off.

There's nothing to suggest Twigs was part of the murder, but it is a line of questioning on cross-examination that is low-hanging fruit. It's there for the grabbing. You don't even have to reach for it. So what does that mean? That means the state needs more than just Lance Twiggs, the lover. What? Ballistics. And Tyler says,

I'm still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orm for a little while longer yet. Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but got to grab my rifle still. To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret until I died of old age. I am sorry to involve you.

And then Lance replies, you weren't the one who did it right. And Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry. Lance says, I thought they caught the person. And then Tyler says, no, they grabbed some crazy old dude, then interrogated someone in similar clothing.

I had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town got locked down. It's quiet almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering. His grandpa's double ought, the murder weapon. So am I supposed to believe that somebody else stole Tyler Robinson's? grandpa's weapon, his long gun, and affected a murder. And then coincidentally, Robinson is sending his lover texts about that. Another interesting thing, and what you just heard in this all came out in the preliminary hearing is that, quote,

Lance Twig says, I thought they caught the person. And Tyler responds, no, they grabbed some crazy old dude and interrogated. someone in similar clothing. Okay, there you go, Sky Lazzaro. That will be an avenue of cross for the defense. That's going to be one of their defenses. It's a defense attorney's dream come true. Police actually arrested somebody else at one juncture.

That's correct. And they arrested him right on the scene. It wasn't days later where they found Tyler Robinson and he finally came forward. This was someone that they arrested on the scene who actually admitted to doing it at the time. So when you're talking about a bungled investigation or not having enough police there or them being able to do their job correctly, you know, they also arrested somebody else. Now he was never charged and later released. But certainly something you want to explore when you're talking about whether or not this investigation conducted correctly.

And there goes Tyler Robinson. Why is he limping out? Because he's got a gun down his pants. Guys, this is a defense attorney's dream come true. Another person was arrested and actually confessed. Of course, they're a nut. But that said, if you can just get one juror to buy your argument, hey, they want us to convict Tyler Robinson, why should we believe he did it? And not the other guy they arrested. So that's where the defense will head with that. All that said, That is all witness cross-examination. It's really hard to cross-examine hard scientific evidence like ballistics. Lance says why, and Tyler says, why did I do it?

And Lance says, yeah. Tyler says, I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence. Going to attempt to retrieve it again. hopefully they have moved on. I haven't seen anything in the news about them finding it. We'll update you shortly or Charlie will update you by midnight. And then Lance says, all right, stay safe. How long have you been planning this? And Tyler replies a bit over a week, I believe.

So Lance says, do you need it for hunting? And Tyler says, no, my dad wanted to use it to use a high caliber for the rifle hunt. Judging from today, I say Graham's gun does just fine. IDK. I think that was a two, a two case scope. Lance says, geez. And then Tyler says, OMW home 3.5 hours. Lance says, drive safe. And then Tyler says, delete this exchange. We got them from our friends at East Idaho News, translation Nate Eaton, straight out to forensics expert, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of beneath my feet. Now, Star of a YouTube hit program Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan. Okay, Joe Scott, ballistics. It's hard to argue ballistics. What do we know? Other than there were no spent shell

casings at the scene of the sniper's lair, the nest. That hurts, but all is not lost. No, it's not. And keep in mind, Nancy, this Mouser rifle. that he allegedly used is a bolt action rifle. So that means that this weapon has to be cycled. That means the little handle on the top has to be moved up, pulled back, and it ejects around. This is not a semi-automatic weapon.

So what apparently happened is that when they actually got this weapon and retrieved it, you still had that round that is spent. You can see there's not a projectile any longer seated in there. open hole there you have a live round that's a spent round I actually have one right here Nancy if you want to see it in real time that's the size of it and just so people at home understand the size of this ammunition this is a 5.56 which our warriors have used for years and years

think back to m4 m16 this is a 30 a 6 it's been around since aught 6 1906 it was used in world one four or two and in Korea very powerful round. It was not cycled out, Nancy. So that round was still in the chamber at that point in time when they recovered this weapon. And so if you look, I love this image. If you guys could please keep it up, the one on the bottom right, okay, you can actually pick up on the diameter of the round itself there. That's how they measure this as 30 caliber. Okay, so they do the diameter based upon that. Now, if as you can see, this thing is mushroomed out, it is blown out, there are the fragments up there in the top image. This thing is fragmented, we call this a lead storm at autopsy. You cannot read the

markings on the side of the projectile because it's so deformed. That's why there's been this big question about, well, you can't tie this round back to that weapon. Okay, yeah, I'll go there with you, and they actually said at one point in time they were trying other avenues. So I don't know if that's going to occur. But this round was in fact mangled. There's been a bit of conspiracy floating around relative to this where so many people have said, there's no way that 30 a 0.30 out six would stay in the body. Really? You think after millions and millions of rounds have been fired of this particular caliber over all of these years, not a single projectile has never exited a body. wrong answer, okay, because they do fragment. Every shot is different. In this particular case,

this round actually did fragment, and it creates its hugely devastating wound. When truth be told about the injury that Kirk sustained is brought forward, and we hear about this gaping injury that is going to be involving multiple, and I mean multiple vertebral bodies in his neck, all of the surrounding vessels, spinal cord, all of this. People will see how vicious this round is. But no, there's no indication at this point in time that this round exited. It fragmented upon impact. One other thing, Nancy, that needs to be brought up here is this idea of the engraving on the side of this round and the other rounds that were recovered from what's referred to as an indwelling magazine. That means that this is not an external magazine. You have to thumb load these things.

things in, press them down, put them in. Now, we turn to our friends. If you think about handwriting analysis, question documents, they recovered a Dremel tool allegedly that was used. They think, they're saying at least, as an engraving tool. That could very well be matched up to his handwriting style. Joe Scott. Joe Scott. Yes, ma'am. I was just going to that. I was waiting for you to finish about the ballistics. You have to hear what, no, no, I'm coming right back to it. You're talking about a germinal tool. And listen to this, Joe Scott. And then most clearly we have the etchings on the rounds found in the gun.

Right. Exhibit 19. Twigs explained what this means. Notices bulge O-W-O, surprise face. What's this, right? This is a furry meme. At the surprise someone has in discovering that another individual unexpectedly has mailed genitalia. Exhibit 20 is probably the most clear political statement here.

Hey, fascist, catch. And then Exhibit 2022, if you read this, you are gay LMAO. So these etchings show a clear political and sexual motivation connected with a political stance that Charlie Kirk took. I want to make sure we all understand what prosecutor Ryan McBride just said to, that's from East Idaho News. they were in the courtroom from the get-go. Look at that.

L-M-A-O, laughing my ass off. Nate Eaton, explain the etchings on the bullets. There was multiple etchings on multiple bullets, Nancy. Police went to the apartment where Lance and Tyler lived, and they found a Dremel tool. This is a tool that you can use. It's pretty small, very simple to use. you can etch. There you go. You can etch on metal or other types of wood, whatever substance you want,

messages. And that's allegedly what Tyler Robinson did. He took that tool that they found in the apartment. Lance Twiggs testified that he had the tool and that Tyler wrote these messages on these bullets that were found in the gun after the fact. They also found packages of unused ammunition in the apartment that matched the ammunition that was used in the gun. Specifically, somebody, and I would submit it's Tyler Robinson, takes time to Dremel, engrave on a bullet. This guy writes, notices bulge. O-W-O- Surprise Face.

What's this? Let me understand. Where is Nate Eaton? Where is Nate? There he is. Nate. You may think it's funny. I don't.

Because here, I am seeing motive. I am seeing motive. Now, again, as we said earlier, State doesn't have to prove motive. But here you go. You know how Kurt felt, right? About same-sex marriage and more. Irrelevant about how he felt. This is motive for murder.

He literally engraves it on a bullet. talking about male genitalia, and it's a furry meme, of course, and then he writes on the bullet, he engraves it. Hey, fascist, catch. That was a bullet intended for Charlie Kirk. So I guess Kirk catching it would be catching it with his head. And the defense, Nancy, has argued that Tyler Robinson didn't have anything personal against Charlie Kirk as far as his views on same-sex marriage or his views on sexuality or politics. They've argued to have that part thrown out of this case, whereas the prosecutors are saying what more clear evidence do you need than what's written on this ammunition? It's written right there. Let me be clear, Nate.

I really do not care who sleeps with who or who wears a furry outfit. I do not care. I care about violent crime like this. And the fact, I mean, who dremels with an ingrate, let me see that dremel again, who hunches over a workbench into the night, dribbling onto bullets? And it all tracks right back to Tyler Robinson,

Joe Scott Morgan, explain. Yeah, let me. Let me break this down for you even further because when we begin to talk about this casing itself and the casings similar to it that are found in in this weapon. Those etchings keep in mind, Lecard stated many, many years ago, Nancy, that every contact leaves a trace. Let me tell you what this trace is going to be. When they went in and they went to this particular workbench where this was facilitated, guess what was left behind by this tremble? Well, it's going to be any flex of metal that came off of the long axis of this casing and the other casings. You'll find those spread about.

In addition to that, you're going to find it perhaps on the tool itself. Now, why is this important? Well, it's connectivity, right? It's just like a ballistic fingerprint or anything else that we do DNA. So you're trying to put this Dremel tool into his hand. Was it his? Did he have possession of it? Where was this facilitated these engravings?

So this is strong evidence, I think. When they go in, they're going to be looking for trace evidence on that bench. And metallically, from a chemical standpoint, does, or molecular standpoint, does, does the do the flex that have been left behind by this Dremel? Do they marry up with these casings? And that is a specific identifier. Again, I think that this goes to strengthening the evidence as far as physical evidence goes, it's one more piece to this.

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To Dr. John Deloey, joining us, psychologist, mediator, expert in forensic psychology, one of the many, many conspiracy theories that have emerged has to do with the fact that the battery on the body cam goes dead at one point. That, it sounds innocent, right? But it's going to be a huge gaping hole because, If one person on that jury believes that was intentional that the body cam video went dead because the cop wanted to hide or destroy evidence, that is a hook. It's a hook. Is it real?

No, but it's a hook. It's not even a reasonable doubt, but it's something that could be argued to a jury. Your body cam footage that I reviewed appears to end while you're still on the roof. Do you know why that is? I think the battery went dead. It was just right at that moment. Okay. And do you know, did you ever turn it back on that day or go get it? I don't know what, do you have to do, charge it or stick a new battery in it? I don't even know. Usually dock it, but no, I didn't go back. I was too, it was too chaotic running around.

From our friend Nate Eaton at East Idaho News. So Dr. Deloery, the questioner, was Catherine Nestor, the defense attorney. So we see through her cross-examination, one of the defense theories is going to be that the body cam went dead so evidence could be destroyed. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the end result for people who want to believe these conspiracy theories is the confirmation bias, right? When there's an opening, when there's some kind of gap, whether it's a gap in technology or a gap in knowledge, people need to fill that in. and they fill it in with a thing that they believe is the most appropriate. Now, therein lies the problem because a lot of people think that they are more intelligent than what they are. People think that they're more skilled than what they actually are. And people have a tendency of thinking that there are no such things as coincidences in murder investigations.

So when all of that couples together, nefarious thinking, people believing in their own skills more than other people. that it can coalesce into this confirmation bias that is then exacerbated by whatever they see on social media. Social media has an algorithm that is feeding you content based on what you believe. And so the more that you're seeing, hey, wait a minute, there's a conspiracy theory here. The more you're going to start believing that there's a conspiracy theory here, the more likely you are to fall victim to conspiracy theories. these situations, it is very likely that someone just did not, you know, power up their body cam and that there's no nefarious purpose associated with it. But it's so hard to break, right? Logic is so

hard to break when emotions and anger and mistrust and distrust all coalesce into someone believing that they're actually smarter or better or more talented than what they actually are. Speaking of conspiracy theories, here's another. Wasn't there also? a bullet found on another building? I believe an unfired bullet had been found on another building at some point during my time there on September 10th, yes.

Which building was that, sir? I don't recall. Was that considered a scene that was worth preserving? It was not. My recollection is that that was accounted for as an ejected cartridge from an officer who had cycled his rifle.

Okay, I thought you said it was a unfired bullet. Now you're saying it was a cartridge. Joe Scott Morgan, that is a whole heap of trouble right there. Another bullet not matching up to the murder weapon on the top of another building. And again, that's the defense attorney, Catherine Nestor, who was trying to understand what it means to cycle a bullet through and not actually fire the bullet. Irrelevant. The point is there's another bullet that nobody can explain.

And that's going to be fodder for conspiracy theorists. Of course it is. And I didn't like his response on the stand when he's testifying to this. This is something I hope that they documented, they identified, documented, photographed, collected. Because listen, Nancy, forensics is not merely about finding positive findings. It's also negative findings. You have to include that.

You don't know what's going on at this particular time. Everything out there has value. and I mean everything, okay? Because at this point in time, when you're working the scene, you have to completely lock it down. I still have questions about how the scene was handled and secured afterwards. And again, all of this is going to go to fodder.

Any time an authority, like the police or any investigative agencies, deviate from standard operating procedure, and I'm not just talking about what their SOP is, OP is what is broadly recognized as good practice in the industry. Anytime you deviate from this, this is the price you're going to pay, just so that everybody understands this when you go to court eventually. These lines of cross-examination are, of course, valid,

but it's giving us a view into the window of where the defense is headed and people are latching on to not the obvious evidence, but these conspiracy theories. Here's one. I think she works for the oppressing class and that she was hired to be Charlie Kirk's handler because Charlie Kirk was such an influential part of the Christian movement through Turning Point USA.

I think that the oppressors that Erica was working for really wanted to use Turning Point USA to try to sway the younger generation and manipulate them and control a narrative around Christianity because that's what they do. The oppressors, that's what they do. Okay, so you get one nut on the jury. It's over.

Now, that is from not an official news source on TikTok. True or words were never spoken. We wait as justice unfolds. The judge has ruled. The state presented overwhelming evidence that there is a case. conflict of fact for a jury to determine. If you know or think you know anything regarding this case as a state and the defense

build their cases, dial 800-225-5-3-24. We remember American hero, officer Nicholas Armstrong, Rapid City PD, South Dakota, just 27. shot in the line of duty after four years, leaving behind grieving parents, Kim and Bill Armstrong, and brothers Chris and McKenzie. I noticed on his online guest book at the funeral home, he quotes John Muir and states, the mountains are calling and I must go. American hero police officer Nicholas Armstrong. Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us tonight.

Nancy Gray signing off, but I'll see you tomorrow night and I until then. Good night, friends. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.