Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Will Mississippi man go free in horrible burning murder of Jessica Chambers?

Episode Date: October 1, 2018

Will a name firefighters thought they heard Jessica Chambers speak just before she died from severe burns cause a jury to acquit the man investigators believe set the Mississippi teen on fire? Nancy Grace looks at the evidence against Quinton Tellis with medical examiner Dr. Jan Gorniak, lawyer Ashley Willcott, death scene investigator Joseph Scott Morgan, private investigator Vincent Hill, and Clarion-Ledger reporter Therese Apel. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Get action information that you can apply to your everyday life with a focus on preparation, not panic. Go to nancygrace.com now. Use promo code NANCY to get 15% off for your sake, for the sake of your children, your family, and the people you love. Know what to do, know when to do it, and how to do it. Class begins Tuesday, October 16. Go to nancygrace.com and register using promo code NANCY. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You told the jury that this was like a puzzle. Yes, sir. And it took you basically four yearsLE TOGETHER. YES SIR. INTELLIGENCE ANALYST JAMES PAUL ROWLAND SAYS HIS PROCESS FOR THE

INVESTIGATION IS SIMILAR TO MAKING A THOUSAND PIECE PUZZLE. SOMETIMES YOU MUST PUT PIECES OFF TO THE SIDE AND THEN BRING THEM BACK IN. HE SAYS THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID WITH QUINTON TELUS. HE WOULD EITHER GIVE US A

DIFFERENT TIME FRAME OR SAY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL WE PRESENTED HIM WITH DATA THAT CONFLICTED WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND THEN HE WOULD CHANGE HIS STORY. ROWLAND PRESENTED A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH CELL PHONE DATA.

HE SAID HE WAS A LITTLE DISTRACTED FROM THE POSSIBLE CONFIDENCE OF THE POSSIBLE CONFIDENCE OF THE POSSIBLE CONFIDENCE OF THE POSSIBLE CONFIDENCE OF THE POSSIBLE CONFIDENCE OF THE POSSIBLE TIME FRAME OR SAY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL WE PRESENTED HIM WITH DATA THAT CONFLICTED WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND THEN HE WOULD CHANGE HIS STORY. ROWLAND PRESENTED A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH CELL PHONE DATA AND SURVEILLANCE VIDEO SHOWING ALMOST EVERY MOVE

CHAMBERS AND TELUS MADE. THIS IS THE LAST TIME WE WILL EVER SEE JESSICA CHAMBERS. WHEN ALL THIS EVIDENCE WAS SHOWN TO TELUS, HE STARTED REMEMBERING THE DETAILS OF THAT FATAL NIGHT. UNTIL THEN INVESTIGATORS SAY THEY BELIEVE

HE WAS WITHHOLDING INFORMATION. DO PEOPLE HAVE A REASON TO LIE? OR BE DECEPTIVE? remembering the details of that fatal night. Until then, investigators say they believe he was withholding information. Do people have a reason to lie or be deceptive? They do. And what would that reason be? Because they're guilty. You are hearing the very latest out of the courtroom. That is our friend, reporter Alexa Lorenzo at Fox 13 in Memphis describing what's going down in a court of law. We have all been watching and waiting as a trial regarding the murder, death by lighter fluid. It was first called of a teen girl cheerleader in Mississippi. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

We are bringing you the very latest out of that courtroom. With me is Terese April from the Clarion Ledger, Ashley Wilcott, judge, lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, cop turned PI, Vincent Hill, renowned medical examiner, Dr. Jan Gorniak, and Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator, and author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Straight out to Terese Apel with the Clarion Ledger. You know, this guy has changed his story so many times. I've tried to keep a flow chart of it, Terese, and his latest story,

and I'm going to start at the facts from the beginning in just a moment, but I've got to react to what's happening in the courtroom. One of his latest story is he was burned. Now, we know the victim was burned head to toe, basically the bottom of her feet were one of the only parts of her body that were unburned. She's wandering on the side of the road, completely charred. Witnesses said she looked like a 60-year-old woman. Her hair was a fuzzball. Her skin was falling off her face. She was burned alive. This guy, according to cell phone records, was with her all the way through that afternoon and into the evening, actually tells police that he got burn marks on his arms from

jumping over a bonfire. Did I get that correctly, Terese? Yes, and it was interesting. A lot of people were freaking out that the prosecution didn't bring that out more. But in the trial last year, they didn't even play that clip. This year they allowed it to play, but the problem was that TELUS had this story about jumping over the bonfire, and they couldn't disprove that that was where the burns came from. However, I've talked to a few that say that they believe that he jumped over the bonfire and fell into it in order to cover the burns from that night. That doesn't even make sense that you jump over a bonfire and then you fall part of the way back in.

Straight out to Joe Scott Morgan, author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Joe Scott, when you are looking at a person's body or when you are calculating a story like this, what type of evidence would you be looking for to confirm or refute that he got burned from jumping over a bonfire the very same night that this woman who he had been pestering for sex happened to burn to death? I think probably the key thing that you would want to look for is the severity of the burns. Are they consistent with someone that would have been present?

Say, for instance, if you're talking about the use of an accelerant like lighter fluid, if it flashed over, you know how it suddenly explodes like this when it comes in contact with fire, these gases. And is that consistent? Or he falls, you know, like our reporter was referring to, he falls into the bonfire and places his arms there for a protracted period of time. Those types of injuries are going to have a different appearance to them. Joining me fulton county medical examiner dr jean gorniak dr gorniak i've prosecuted a lot of arson cases but all my victims were dead they didn't get to say anything or speak the way jessica chambers did my point is quentin tellis is very much alive, the guy charged with her murder.

What would you expect to see on his body if he had actually jumped over a bonfire? Well, there's so many variables that are going to have to come into play. One, how big was this fire? You know what I mean? So you're thinking of, I mean, his whole body's going through it. When you think of those fall bonfires, you know, in the backyard, they can get pretty big. One down on the beach can get pretty big. So, one, why would you jump through a fire? That would be one. But what is he wearing?

I would more expect maybe lower. I mean, if you're jumping over, you would expect injuries to the lower half of the body before you something to the arms. But not knowing where the burns are on his arms, I'm not sure. Is it the palms of his hands? Because that would be consistent with falling in. Because instinctively, we're going to put our hands out. So does he have burns to his palms or does he have burns to his forearms? So it just depends on where the burns are.

There's so many variables. Like I said, Nancy, how big is the fire? What type of clothes was he wearing? And, you know, was he in shorts? Was he in long pants? Same thing. So just like the investigator says, it's you'll see different patterns of burns depending on what he did. You know, Ashley Wilcott, you're a judge, a lawyer. Can we just get real for a moment? I mean, I can get bogged down and the experts because they know about burn marks so intricately. But Ashley, really, seriously, he's with this girl the whole day. He's on the phone he's pestering her for sex it goes on and on and on she's saying no and then the night that she is burned alive to her death this teen girl okay

my daughter's about to turn 11 as is my son so is yours ashley yours just turned 11 and you want to tell me that within a couple of hours he gets burned in a bonfire really I don't believe in that coincidence and often when I hear cases there is no such thing as a coincidence right it is a bunch of crap and the other piece of that is don't forget he changed his story so many times that that is after they finally got him from, no, I didn't see her. I wasn't with her, too. Oh, yeah, I was with her for the day. So, no, it is a bunch of crap. I mean, Vincent Hill caught turn, P.I.

Can we all just get real just for a moment? he wants me to believe that this girl that i would say i think they should have added a rape charge myself because she said no no no no no and oh by the way he deleted all the texts as to sex and then suddenly she's in a car with a seat pushed back and she's been set on fire and he says within the, he's jumping over a bonfire and got burned. What about the rest of his body? How come his arms, which is what would have gotten on fire if he had set a gasoline fire? That mean it would have been burned. I mean, Vincent, the voice of reason, help me out here for Pete's sake. Yeah, Nancy, I don't believe anyone's buying this bonfire story. But more importantly than that, not only did he change his story, he changed his clothes from

earlier in that day. Now, he claims he went to go take a shower. But I guess if you had gasoline all over you, you'd want to take a shower. Here's the thing, Nancy, the cell phone data does not lie. It shows he was with Jessica up until a certain point. His phone went silent for several minutes, almost an hour, and then his phone is active again. That would leave very little time for someone to do this crime of opportunity with Jessica unless it was the last person known to be with her. You know, the whole cell phone data issue is just a whole other can of worms. So before I jump into that can of worms, that barrel of snakes, which I think nails him, totally nails him,

because to disbelieve the phone records, which I'm going to get into, you have to believe that he was in touch with her and around her all day and then there at the end, right when she gets set on fire and dies, somebody else soups in and kills her. Listen, they look like a zombie walking toward us because I mean the way she was walking, she wasn't walking fast. Her hands were out front over one first responder. After the other testified Jessica Chambers looked awful, horrific with burns over 90% of her body.

Back out to to rest April with the Clarion Ledger just tell me to rest. What happened over the weekend? I mean they went through trial the whole weekend while we were out at soccer games in the grocery store and grilling out. They were hard at work in the courthouse going forward with this case. Now, I respect that I've tried a lot of cases over the weekend, and it hurts even more when, you know, your family is at home, you know, grilling out, and you're in the courtroom, but they

didn't give up. Tell me what happened. You know what? Start at the beginning, Torres, for people just joining us. Tell me the story of Jessica Chambers. Well, she was a 19 year old girl in, in Panola County, Mississippi. She had recently been getting her life back together. She'd been in a rehab for a little while and she'd gotten a job and everything like that. And at some point, she comes across Quentin Tellis. Prosecutors believed that they had only known each other a week when this happened. One night, the fire department gets a call of a burning car.

They go out there thinking they're going to a routine car fire and they find her there. Oh, wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You probably left this out because you don't consider it important, but wasn't she caught on surveillance video at a gas station? And is, tell us in that video before the fire breaks out. Well, it depends on which video you're talking about. There are multiple videos from the gas station, but the last one where you can see her, he is not in that video. And that was part of one of the things that the defense is trying to capitalize on. But throughout the day, you see the two of them, and throughout that week,

that was where everybody hung out. So, yes, she was on the video from the gas station and Tellis himself had been on that video multiple times that day as well. At the same time she was? In one situation, yes. Well, there's a place where you can tell that she is off camera. She pulls in after he has walked off camera. So, it's a little convoluted, but yes, they can put them there at the same time. Okay. So remind me to circle back, Terese, April, Clary, and Ledger to those cell phone records. But anyway, long story short, they have been texting and hanging around throughout the day. We know he's been pestering her for sex. She's saying no, no, no, no, no. Okay. Lead me up to

that evening. Okay. That evening, they have gone to Batesville together. Now, Quentin's first story was that he wasn't with her at all. His next story was that, yeah, they both went to Taco Bell, but he rode in a different truck, and they followed her to Taco Bell, at which point he got out in an adjacent parking lot and got in the car and went through the drive-thru with her and then got back lot and got in the car and went through the drive-through with her and then got back Out and got in the other car. All right, sorry to break in got a question Yeah, he went through the drive-through with the the burn victim the teen girl Jessica chambers

What time was that and is there video of that? There is no video in the drive-through Oh this goes down on the burning goes down around 730 correct No video in the drive-thru. Oh, this goes down. The burning goes down around 7.30, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So if he's with her in the late afternoon, I've never heard Vincent Hill. What the hay? A Taco Bell with no surveillance video? I've never heard of it.

Well, I think the problem, Nancy, is police didn't find out about the Taco Bell incident until much later. Well, somebody had to use their credit card or their ATM, I'm guessing. But, okay, you know what? I can't get bogged down in the cops not getting the surveillance video because I would really have liked to see the surveillance video, Ashley Wilcott. I mean, in this day and age, people think they're in a CSI TV program. They are expecting video. They're expecting scent dogs and DNA and touch DNA and an MVAC. I mean, if there's video and you don't produce it, that makes a very bad impression, Ashley.

Yeah, it does, because the assumption is going to be, and I think it's a fair one, there is no video. There is no proof that they were on video together. But remember, in this case, Nancy, this is all, as we all know, circumstantial evidence. And so the prosecution's job is to put together every little piece of circumstantial evidence to say there's no clear conclusion other than the fact he did it. That's the only conclusion you can reach based on the evidence. So if you look, even without the video, if you look at all the evidence together, I think the prosecution has presented a very strong case to say the only conclusion you can make, jury, is that he did this. You know, we are going through with a fine-tooth comb the evidence

as it is pouring from the witness stand in the case of Quentin Tellis in the murder of a teen girl cheerleader in Mississippi, Jessica Chambers. What a horrific death. A passerby describes her staggering down the side of the road. I'll tell you what I think happened, and so do police, that after the, what I believe to have been a rape, in the car, he strangled her, thought she was dead, came back, and doused the car to hide the evidence and burned her alive. She gets out, tries to get away, and the rest is history. As we get bogged down in all of these facts, which you have to do to try a case, I want you to remember who we're talking about.

Listen to Jessica's mother. Would you tell the jury about Jessica growing up? She was just a bubbly child. She liked to play softball. She liked to cheer. Just a loving child. Did she attend a local school here? Yes, she did.

Was she a cheerleader? Yes, she was. Did she graduate from South Panola High School? Yes, she did. Can you tell the juryo Paulo High School? Yes, she did. Can you tell the jury what her age was at the time of her death? 19. Take a listen to Jessica's dad, Ben Chambers, telling me at HLN what happened at the hospital. What do you remember about that drive to try to get to your daughter?

It was just, you know, I was just steady praying to the Lord that she'd be okay, you know. And, you know, just begging her, you know, to not take her, you know, because I just lost my son a year before she got killed, you know, in a car wreck. And I just, you know, my whole world just shut down, you know. I mean, just hearing you talk, I remember that, that crazy attempt to get there before he passed away.

When you got there, when you got to the hospital, what happened? Well, when I got to the hospital, I didn't even park my vehicle. You have to, you know, pay to get in and park. I just parked in the middle of the street, took off running in the hospital or whatever. And, of course, when I got in there, nobody knew nothing about it or anything. You got to get a badge. And then finally I asked them, I said, where's the burn center or whatever? Where is the part of the burn center? And they said, well, it's upstairs down the hall or whatever. I just took off

running. As a matter of fact, I went in places I wasn't even supposed to be trying to find her. And did you find her? They didn't even know nothing about it. And of course, then they started calling around, and they said, well, wait a minute. The helicopter's landing right now, you know. And then we had to wait, wait, wait, you know, wait on the doctor. It seemed like it was eternity, you know.

And that's when the doctor come out When you finally run in the hospital, you're running up and down the halls, you're trying to find her, you get there before the airlift brings her there, and you finally see her. What did you see? Well, I didn't get to see her right then, you know. It was about two hours before we got to go back there, you know, and the doctor come out, and he told me, he said, Mr. Chambers, she don't want to see your daughter out to you. So I said, no, she's unrecognizable, you know.

You know, she's unrecognizable. And, you know, he said he'd never seen somebody that bad could live as long as she did. He said she had a strong heart. I mean, she had no veins or nothing where they could even put IVs in or nothing, you know. Mr. Chambers, did you get to speak to her before she went to heaven? No, no, no, ma'am, I did not. Did you get to see her? No, no.

If we got ready to go into the room or whatever, my sister and her mother, Lisa, walked in the rooms to see. They was in there maybe about 30 seconds, and she passed away. I can tell you this, Mr. Chambers. I believe with all of my heart that she knew that you were there. Every time I hear Ben Chambers speaking with me, it just breaks my heart all over again. To Ashley Wilcott joining me, judge, lawyer, founder of ChildCrimeWatch.com, and mother I mean can you imagine flying as fast as you can in the car to try to he actually beat the helicopter there Ashley he beat the helicopter to the big hospital burn unit and was that that horrible it sounds like a nightmare running around the hospital and getting your badge, trying to find your daughter, only to be told there's nothing that they can do to save her life.

I just can hardly stand hearing Ben Chambers recount that to me. No, no. And so you and I would walk on water for our kids, right, and get to our kids. So that's what he did, basically. And he gets there. And here's the thing to remember, you know, burns are so not only dangerous and fatal, and especially in this case, fatal, but they are so visible. And so, I don't know how to say this other than the smell. So if you've ever been in a burn unit, it smells. I've been in them. They smell differently than a hospital. It's a whole different sensory experience. And the other piece of this is, as you're flying to the hospital,

it's natural to think, I've got to get to my child. But you're never going to think, because the burns are so bad, she's going to die. Instead, you think, I've got to get there. She's been burned. We've got to get her treated. We've got to get to the hospital. You never would think. I would never think I've got to get there because my child's going to die because of his burns. I would think I've got to get there so we can get her help. You know, to Dr. Jan Gorniak, Fulton County Medical Examiner, renowned doctor, Dr. Gorniak, I remember my fiance was murdered. I mean, I kind of already knew he had passed away, but yet I didn't. And I kept thinking, if I can just get to him, I can fix it. I can just fix it. And I couldn't fix it. And I'm trying to figure out when your skin is burned to that extent,

like almost your entire body, except for the soles of your feet, essentially, why does that make your heart and your internal organs shut down? Why do you die? Because your skin is all burned. The thing is, depending on the severity of the burn, we talk about partial thickness and full thickness, or most people know about first degree, second degree, third degree. Well, when you have severe enough burns, it's not just the severity of the burns, it's the percentage of your body. So some people can get a third degree burn on their leg

and it's like 10% of their body. But when you have 80, 90, 95% of your body burned, your body is going to shut down, try to one, send oxygen and blood to your heart, your brain, but you die from dehydration because the fluid is leaking out from the consequence of the burn. You can die from infection. In this case, I truly believe it was really the burn. The burns were secondary, but we know her airway was compromised. We know that

whether there was the gases from the fire. And so that's what's really causing her death. Unfortunately, I hate to be so graphic or, you know, distinct, but it's her airway. And so when you can't breathe, then obviously then oxygen isn't getting to the vital parts of your body. And that's what causes people to die. So either airway compromise or infection. Joining me from the Clarion Ledger, he's been covering the trial from the beginning. Terese Apel. Terese, what is the jury's reaction as this testimony is coming in? Have you been watching them? Yes, and one thing you notice about the jury, especially compared to last year's jury, they are hanging on every word in most cases. There have been a couple of cross-examinations that have gone long that they've kind of phoned

out, and there were some videos of the interrogations where they, you know, were a little restless, but for the most part, they've been right there through the entire trial. It's been one of these things that you're actually kind of, it's actually interesting to see this jury be so engaged. And you see them, you know, taking notes in a couple of cases and that kind of thing. I believe they're going to be very, as much as you can take in this information in a week, I believe they're going to be very informed when they go back to consider the verdict. You know, the last jury hung, it was a mistrial. So I pray that this jury is alert and paying attention and can reach a verdict. I remember distinctly trying cases and my investigator, Ernest and I would stay late into the evening and stand in front of that empty jury box and we would recount what we recall of each juror. This one was nodding yes at this witness, this one looked sleepy, this one and we

would count up and make notes and charts of which jurors we thought we had with us already and then if there were some that we didn't think were with us I would get right in front of that juror and look at that juror specifically in the eyes as I question the witness off to my right I be looking at that juror as I would try to make particular points to hone it in with the few jurors I would think were not with me with the state. I want to start with the evidence on the cell phone records. We searched those databases for every single person in Panola County named Eric, Derek, Jarek, any form of that. And we not only download their names, we downloaded information associated with those

individuals, their address history, those sorts of things, their car registrations. And so we downloaded all of that information and it again goes into my database. So as we get leads later, I can bounce it off that information. I remember, and I can't remember the exact date, but once we had kind of, you know, gone through a lot of leads and a lot of that information, I decided to actually do the same thing for all of the counties that connect to Panola County and downloaded that. And the other day, just because I wanted to do it, I actually went into my database and I searched to see how many were ultimately in there, and we had, and this was from what I've described to you plus any other information we collected, there were actually 468 people in my database that had some variation of that name that we could constantly bounce information off of as it came into the task force. Based on your analysis, did any of those 468 people have any communication or contact with Jessica Chambers?

They did not. I want to start with the evidence on the cell phones. Listen. Did any of those 468 people have any communication or contact with Jessica Chambers? They did not. I want to start with the evidence on the cell phones. Listen. What woke her up from her nap? She either got a text message or a phone call. I don't know which one. And how did she respond to that text or phone call? She jumped up, went to the bathroom, and then when she come out of the bathroom, she was on the phone talking and then come out and said she was going to get her something to eat,

clean out her car, and she'd be back in a little bit. So she responded to the phone call and left? Mm-hmm. And was she gone for a little while? Yes, sir. At some point in that evening at approximately 6.48 p.m., did you speak to her by phone? Yes, sir. And why did you speak to her by phone?

I don't know if I called her she called I don't really know that part but I asked her what she was doing and she said getting something to eat and that's no relief. I'm gonna ask you when you talk Jessica was a 19 year old kid correct? Yes sir. When you normally talk to her on the phone, what was the standard atmosphere around her phone calls? Loud music, noises, just the normal teenage. On this particular night, did you tell investigators something struck you odd about this phone call? It was very quiet. It was like no music, no noises in the background, just quiet. Maybe the windows down, possibly nothing.

You couldn't, it was like just silence. Just her. What did that mean to you? To me, it would mean the way Noah and Jessica, it would be like somebody was with her, you know. I couldn't tell you yes or no, but that would be how I took her call. We're just after the noon hour on Friday, and this is actually going to be the text interchange, and I'm going to show you the video where she's trying to get Quentin to give her some money for some food. I'm not going to read all of this one for you, but I'll let you interpret it for yourself.

It's kind of difficult. But basically here she's trying to say, my interpretation of it is, will you give me some money so I can go get something to eat? His answer to that here is, can I f*** you? And then he also texts her, how much you need, bae? And she said, just like $6. She says, where are you at? He says, I'm at home.

She says, I can come by. And he says, come now. And she says, okay. And she says, I'm fixing to leave. And then he texts her, I'm waiting on you. Terese, April, Clary, and Ledger, I know it's hard to do, but could you boil down the cell phone records that in my mind clinched the case? Well, probably what clinched the case was what they're calling the aha moment when they had gotten the location data back on Quentin Tellis' phone,

and they realized that his locations did not show what he had told them, that he had told them a whole different story. So Paul Rowlett starts to look closely at this information and finds that Tellis' signal is right on top of where Jessica's is. Jessica's was much stronger. They had more tower information, but they were able to put Quentin Tellis in the same places that Jessica was, at which point he called the other members of the prosecution team and said, guys, you've got to come see this. That is really the thing that clinched the whole thing. But when you look at the preponderance of that cell phone data on top of the other evidence they have, as a whole, it is very convincing.

Well, let me understand something. Terese Apel with Clarion Ledger. To do that, you triangulate. In other words, take information from multiple cell phone towers, if you've got them, and you figure out where that particular cell phone is, but the time, the timing. What time was his cell phone at the same spot as hers? Well, it started when they went to Taco Bell. So all the way to Batesville, their phones are together. They're together in Batesville and they're together coming back. Then they're together in a field next to Tellis' home for about 30 minutes, at which

they're both silent. And then Jessica's never gets used again. Tellis' doesn't wake up until after the time that authorities believe Jessica was rendered unconscious. They say about, I think it was about 7.42. Hold on,te's. You're saying that his cell phone is basically on top of hers in the triangulation, up until they are in the field where she's burned? Well, until they were in the field where they, prosecutors are saying that's where they ended up. As they said, attempting sex. There was a sex attempt, and I believe they're using that to say that Jessica didn't want it. And potentially they believe Quentin did. They went from that field, their cell phones went to, or Jessica's cell phone went to the area where she was burned. Tellus's did too, but Jessica's,

Jessica's, what's the word? Her triangulation showed up there drastically so that's where they were able to you know figure out that's when she was moved so joe scott morgan with me death investigator that leads me to think of this scenario that in that field is where he raped or attempted to rape her and they were there for about 30 minutes and then her cell phone and his cell phone from what I'm understanding from teres April went to the field where she was burned yeah and and it's compelling evidence Nancy it's very compelling well so Scott that he rapes her, moves her, what he thinks is a dead body, to this field. And then we see the sister's car, which he is in, I believe, going to his house where he keeps a can of gas in the shed by his own admission.

About two minutes after it pulls in, it pulls back out. I guess that's neighbor surveillance video. And then the next thing you know, she's up in flames. I mean, what do you need? A video of him pouring gas on the car, for Pete's sake, Joe Scott? No, but I think that a lot of people would want to see that, would want to see that relative to, you know, shoring this up in their mind,

and they have to be able to dig through this technical data, and it's layered. You know, this case has contained everything from high-end science, where we're talking about electronic data, all the way out to DNA evidence, and I think that they've done an adequate job here of portraying and putting down the story, linking him and her piece by piece, step by step. For me, in this particular case, the electronic cell phone data is much more compelling, even, say, for instance, in the DNA evidence in this case. Take a listen to this. That brings us back to one of the first people that was talked to four days after her death.

It does. And one of the last people she was in contact with. Yes. And who was that? It was Quentin Tellis. And earlier you had looked at some tolls from Quentin Tellis' phone. I had. Had you looked at a dump that was retrieved from Quentin Tellis' phone?

I did. When you originally analyzed Quentin Tellis, did you have that information? I didn't. And so, you know, again, we had taken that piece of the puzzle, moved it toward the edge of the table, and moved on to other things. But between the dates he was interviewed and that October 2015 meeting, at some point in there, we had received that location data back. So when you started going back through all the original contacts. Yes. Did you have another piece of information on Quentin Tellis?

I did. I had his location data on his phone. And did you analyze the location data on Quentin Telles' phone? I did. And this leads you to contact investigators? It did. You know, I don't know if you heard it at trial. We always refer this back to the aha moment in the case, but it did. And when I saw what I saw on his location data, it led me to, and I think I was doing that very a very late at night. I contacted the five members of the team and told you all that I needed you immediately in my office the next morning.

That brings us back to one of the first people that was talked to four days after her death. It does. And one of the last people she was in contact with. Yes. And who was that? It was Quentin Tells. And earlier you had looked at some tolls from Quentin Tellis' phone. I had.

Had you looked at a dump that was retrieved from Quentin Tellis' phone? I did. When you originally analyzed Quentin Tellis, did you have that information? I didn't. And so, you know, again, we had taken that piece of the puzzle, moved it toward the edge of the table, and moved on to other things. But between the dates he was interviewed and that October 2015 meeting, at some point in there, we had received that location data back. So when you

started going back through all the original contacts, did you have another piece of information on Quentin Tellis? I did. I had his location data on his phone. And did you analyze the location data on Quentin Tells' phone? I did. And did this lead you to contact investigators? It did. You know, I don't know if you heard at the trial, we always refer this back to the aha moment in the case, but it did.

And when I saw what I saw on his location data, it led me to, and I think I was doing that at very late at night. I contacted the five members of the team and told you all that I needed you immediately in my office the next morning. You are hearing intelligence analyst Paul Rowlett, who worked full time on this case for a year as he testified in court. I want to go to Dr. Jan Gorniak, renowned medical examiner out of Fulton County. Dr. Gorniak, listen. I still sit there and held her hand. That's all I could do.

I just said, sweetheart, it's going to be okay. And she kept telling me, you know, I'm going to die. And I said, listen, no, you're not. It's going to be okay. Help's coming. Help's coming. Help's coming. And Daniel got there, and he knelt down with me on the other side of her. I was on one side. He was on the other side.

And previous to Daniel arriving, I had asked her name, and I had gotten Jessica Tangers. Could you clearly understand what she was saying? Not clearly. I could just understand Jessica. I could make Jessica out. That's not, you know, the syllables and everything. You can make Jessica out. Did you in fact hear her response to Daniel in regards to who did this?

I did not personally hear her say. Did Daniel advise you what he thought he had heard? He did, he said, she said Eric. That would have come from Daniel Cole? That would have come from Daniel Cole. That would have came from Daniel Cole. When she told me her name was Jessica Tammers and said, what happened? And she said, somebody had set me on fire. You have to have the breath pressure first. So if the lungs are damaged, they're not going to be elastic enough to take in the amount, the air to allow that to push on through the vocal folds.

And then the pharyngeal area you said a minute ago, exactly what is that? The laryngeal area is what we call our voice box. It's where our vocal folds are, our larynx. And if those are damaged by inhalation of smoke or fire, would that affect the ability to make an articulate sound? Yes, it would. The vocal folds are very thin and they're very pliable and if there's anything that attaches to those cords it's going to keep them from moving the way they should. I use my hands like this but I tell students all the time you the cords are to look like this but if there's anything impinging like a growth or something hanging on the cord they're not going to close and open the way they're supposed to. And that affects sound.

It does. That was speech pathologist Dr. Carol Hidgen who testified in court. She says there was no way Jessica could possibly have produced an articulate sound. Dr. Jan Gorniak, renowned medical examiner out of Fulton County. Dr. Gorniak, when this case first happened, it was called death by lighter fluid because it was first believed that someone had poured lighter fluid or some accelerant, forced it down her mouth and throat and set it on fire because the inside of her mouth and throat and air passages looked completely black and charred. Is it any surprise to you when they asked her who did this to you,

she said, and I'm quoting from the courtroom, and that was interpreted to be Eric. I believe she's trying to say, tell us. But are you surprised she could not enunciate dr gorniak and why could she not enunciate well without actually seeing her airway for myself but the way you're describing it was like it sounds like there was soot and inflammation from secondary to the the heat and the flames of the fire. Does it surprise me? My medical sense says yes, because you have all that inflammation,

and it would be very difficult to make any sound. But I have witnessed people's will to live, not only when I was an intern in the hospital years ago, but also in a couple of cases I've had. So people fight to the end, to their death, literally, to tell their story. And like you said, what did she say? We will really never know. But she was trying to tell her story and bring justice for herself.

So does it surprise me on one end? Absolutely. But the personal side of me really believes in will to live and people find that strength to tell their story. Nancy, this is Ashley. Can I add something to that? Yeah, definitely. The law provides for that.

There's the exception to hearsay, which is the dying declaration excited utterance. And the whole reason they have that exception is because people do exactly what was just described. They find every ounce of their being to actually say what happened to them before they died. You know what? You're right, Ashley. Listen. From what I viewed in my expert opinion, the severity of what I saw would have prohibited this person from producing any kind of an articulate sound. For what time period? From very soon after the trauma, like within minutes after the trauma.

Within minutes after the trauma, like within minutes after the trauma. Within minutes after the trauma. Okay. So that would be based upon what? The severity of the burns and the pictures I saw of the vocal folds and the Dr. Hickerson's report of what was apparent when she did arrive at the med, as well as relating back to what went on during transportation to the med. Again, I've been at this a long time. There's no way this person produced an articulate sound from very soon after this inflammation started or this burn started. Can you tell this jury as you sit here today when that inflammation that you just referred to would have started? This person would not have sustained severe burns for more

than a couple of minutes without losing their ability to communicate. Prosecutors say Jessica Chambers was too badly burned to say much of anything, but in this retrial surprise from prosecution witnesses who testified, Jessica Chambers said a lot more than Eric did it. I just said, sweetheart, it's going to be okay. And she kept telling me, you know, I'm going to die. Former Cortland Fire Chief Cole Haley said Chambers appeared alert. She was breathing and she asked me for water. Prosecutors tried to bring out that the 19-year-old could not speak well. I could tell it was hard for her to talk. First responders testified Jessica was hard to understand, but they knew she said her name, Jessica Chambers, and they knew she said Eric set her on fire. Quentin Tellus is on trial for the murder of Jessica Chambers and that name Eric is a hurdle prosecutors will have to get over. That was WMC Action News reporter Jessica Chambers. And that name, Eric, is a hurdle prosecutors will have to get over.

That was WMC Action News reporter Janice Abroach. To Tress Apel with a clarion ledger, that's the big problem. That's the O.J. Simpson glove moment in the courtroom. Will the defense be able to make the jury believe somebody named Eric did the deed, just like because the glove didn't fit, none of the other evidence counted? Or will the jury understand she couldn't speak? What's your gauge of it, Terese? My gauge is that last year the prosecution did not do a clear job of showing that she didn't clearly say Eric.

They put the first responders on the stand, and they all said she said Eric, and it was kind of like, okay. This year, they said, but what did it sound like? How close did you have to get for her to hear this? Can you tell us the, you know, the way she said it? And what you had was a bunch of people, instead of saying, she said Eric, I heard it, They're saying, well, it kind of sounded like Ella or it kind of sounded like Eric. And so by the end of it, you had, then you had two experts who said she would not be able to clearly enunciate. And then you had one of the experts saying those could even have been pain sounds. She may not have been trying to say anything. So I think this year,

it's very much clearer that we're dealing with a situation where she was trying to speak, but there was no clear word that she was saying. Vincent Hill? To me, I mean, the timeline, it says it all. The cell phone data couldn't have been anyone else but the last person that was with Jessica. There's no way that anyone else could have snuck in, done this, and gotten away and not leave a trace, Nancy. Joe Scott Morgan. Yeah, I'm glad to see that the prosecution has righted the ship here relative to, and I think a lot of this goes to, you think about the expert testimony. They actually brought in a speech pathologist in this in this case and this individual was able to better describe because this is this is a critical turning point in this case everybody wants to you know talk about what had been said and and you there's a deeper explanation here

you combine this with the physical findings and in its was impactful, I think, from my perspective. I think it will be impactful for the jury as well. Take a listen to this. You told the jury that this was like a puzzle. Yes, sir. And it took you basically four years to put this puzzle together. Yes, sir. Intelligence analyst James Paul Rowlett says his process for the investigation is similar to making a thousand-piece puzzle. PUT THIS PUZZLE TOGETHER. YES SIR. INTELLIGENCE ANALYST JAMES PAUL ROWLAND SAYS HIS PROCESS FOR THE

INVESTIGATION IS SIMILAR TO MAKING A THOUSAND PIECE PUZZLE. SOMETIMES YOU MUST PUT PIECES OFF TO THE SIDE AND THEN BRING THEM BACK IN. HE SAYS THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID WITH QUINTON TELUS. HE WOULD EITHER GIVE US A DIFFERENT TIME FRAME OR SAY IT

DIDN'T HAPPEN UNTIL WE PRESENTED HIM WITH DATA THAT CONFLICTED WHAT HE WAS SAYING AND THEN HE WOULD CHANGE HIS STORY. ROWLE HAD PRESENTED A POWERPOINT PRESENTATION WITH CELL PHONE DATA AND SURVEILLANCE VIDEO SHOWING ALMOST EVERY MOVE

CHAMBERS AND TELUS MADE. THIS IS THE LAST TIME WE WILL EVER SEE JUST CHAMBERS. WHEN ALL THIS EVIDENCE WAS SHOWN TO TELUS, HE STARTED REMEMBERING THE DETAILS OF THAT FATAL NIGHT. UNTIL THEN, INVESTIGATORS SAY

THEY BELIEVE HE WAS WITHHOLDING INFORMATION. WHY DID YOU GO TO NASHVILLE? TO A GAME. WHAT GAME? THE GAME THAT YOU WERE IN THE GAME. WHAT GAME? THE GAME THAT YOU WERE IN THE GAME. of that fatal night. Until then, investigators say they believe he was withholding information. Why did you go to Nashville?

To a game. What game? Giants and Tennessee. The New York Giants and Tennessee Titans? Yes. Do you have a friend that plays for the New York Giants? John Jerry. And is John Jerry from Batesville?

Or this area? Yes. Yes. And how long have you known John? I've been knowing him a long time. Okay. And did John have anything for you as far as where you're staying? Who paid for that?

He did. Okay. And who provided you with tickets to the game? He did. And did you, in fact, go to Nashville? Yes. Okay, and when was the game? Sunday.

That's Big Mike Sanford, Tellus' purported alibi witness. He's testified in retrial that he drove to Nashville to see his friend play for the New York Giants and was not with Tellis. Well, that was the big fat lie on Tellis' part. To Ashley Wilcott. You know, Ash, I know that you founded ChildCrimeWatch.com. You're a judge. You're a lawyer. But I want to talk to you as a mom. You know,

when somebody on the playground says something mean or does something mean to John David or Lucy gets a little feelings hurt when somebody doesn't play with her. I think about it all night long. I know that sounds crazy, but I think about, you know, I don't want them to get their feelings hurt. I don't want them to live through this. I don't want them to live through that. And I just don't know how the parents can stand knowing what Jessica went through, that awful death she had at so young. I mean, a teen girl for Pete's sake, Ashley. So what they say, Nancy, is that the loss of a child is absolutely the worst loss you can ever suffer.

So compound that with the loss of a child by such gruesome, horrible means that are so visual in your mind, you're never going to forget. These parents will never recover, never get over this. Will there be closure if there's a conviction in some sense? Absolutely. They will never forget it.

I've always said, put me in a straitjacket. God forbid something happen to one of my children. Put me in a straitjacket. I cannot. They must be the strongest people in the world to survive this. Take a listen to Jessica's dad, Ben Chambers, telling me at HLN what happened at the hospital. He couldn't see her or speak to her before she went to heaven. When you finally run in the hospital, you're running up and down the halls, you're trying to find her,

you get there before the airlift brings her there, and you finally see her. What did you see? Well, I didn't get to see her right then, you know. It was about two hours before we got to go back there, you know, and the doctor come out and he told me, he said, Mr. Chambers, she don't want to see your daughter out to you. He said, no, she's unrecognizable, you know. You know, she's unrecognizable. You know, he said he'd never seen somebody that bad could live as long as she did.

She had a strong heart I mean she had no veins or nothing where they can even put IVs in or nothing you know mr. chambers did you get to speak to her before she went to heaven? No, no, no. No, ma'am, I did not. Did you get to see her? No, no. If we got ready to go into the room or whatever, my sister and her mother, Lisa, walked in the rooms to see. They was in there maybe about 30 seconds, and she passed away. I can tell you this, Mr. Chambers. I believe with all of my heart that she knew that you were there.

Right now, that jury deliberating the fate of Quentin Tellis as Jessica Chambers' family watches in the wings. Go to crimeonline.com for the very latest. We are in a verdict watch. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.