Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Will OJ Simpson go free? Nancy takes your calls!

Episode Date: July 19, 2017

OJ Simpson's parole hearing could result in freedom from a Nevada prison for the infamous actor/athlete. Nancy Grace's guest to discuss Simpson's chances are reporter Art Harris, psychologist Caryn Stark and YOU! This episode features calls from listeners commenting and asking questions about OJ. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. It is the hearing that everyone will be watching. OJ Simpson will get his shot at freedom. He's scheduled to have a parole hearing on Thursday in Nevada. The former football star is sitting right now in a state prison for robbery in Las Vegas. You know, I wasn't there to hurt anybody. I just wanted my personal things and I realized I was stupid.

Count one, conspiracy to commit a crime, guilty. Count two, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, guilty. Count three, conspiracy to commit robbery, guilty. I am sorry. I didn't mean to steal anything from anybody. And I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. The countdown has started. Notorious football star, Orenthal James Simpson, known as OJ, OJ Simpson, the juice, is set to walk free out of a correctional institute where he was placed after being found guilty of being part of an armed robbery.

He then stood straight up to the judge, looked the judge in the eye, and lied, saying he was simply trying to reclaim family heirlooms and had no idea that all of his flunkies had guns. I'm surprised he didn't get more time. The reality is Simpson is set to walk free. The parole hearing going down in less than 72 hours. That clock ticking at CrimeOnline.com. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. What a travesty. I will never forget the day that OJ Simpson walked free on a double murder. His wife found in a pool of blood, her head nearly chopped off. A young man, no connection to either of them, a waiter at a restaurant she had been at that night, returned with some glasses to her home, dead in the prime of his life. How a jury set him free, nobody really knows. But the reality is, we knew he'd do something again. And he did.

An armed robbery. Once again, believing he was above the law. But now he's set to walk free as you know Simpson found guilty in 2008 of armed robbery kidnapping and other charges stemming from an angry and armed confrontation at a sports memorabilia dealer in Vegas it was in a casino hotel room you know with me right now is Art Harris, veteran investigative journalist. He's been on TV, started, I believe, at the Washington Post, and more important for right now, covered the O.J. Simpson murder trial. Also with me, a famed psychologist out of New York, Karen Stark, and we are taking your calls here on Sirius XM.

You know, what's amazing, Art Harris, is that his stint behind bars has been compared to basically a cruise ship with barbed wire. He's Club Med, Nancy. He's Club Med in the Nevada desert. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. A cruise ship with barbed wire, a Club Med in the Nevada desert, is how one correctional officer described the prison where Simpson has been now for several years. But he's heading to the Nevada Board of Parole and could be released. Inmates in Nevada have a saying that love lock is easy time.

Why do you say it's a club med in the middle of the desert? Let's start with that, Art Harris. Well, Nancy, you know, the reports say he's had access to a gym, softball field, volleyball courts, got ping pong. And, you know, he has access to movie night, cable TV, and he's treated like a god. Movie night? Oh, movie night. Movie night. you know my children you know my children art they asked me if they could have a ping pong table and I said no that it costs too much but little did I know OJ Simpson has the ping pong table and from what I've heard what I've been told he even has a butler somebody that does his prison

chores well he can pay them too you know he know, he's been building up all that NFL pension money. It's been going into a savings account, and nobody can touch it, not even the Goldmans. Oh, rub it in, rub it in. What, Art Harris, is your most vivid memory of the debacle trial of O.J. Simpson? You know, when I was, you know, at the scene, you know, we had the Tower of Babel, the 50-foot tall skyscraper of reporters. And when he got acquitted, Nancy, we had to fight our way through the crowds to climb up those ladders and go on TV and talk about it. I was sitting next to Dominic Dunn, our mutual friend, and he was so appalled that someone called him an anarchist

because, you know, his daughter was murdered. So he ripped off his microphone and stalked off the set. And while the crowd below were screaming, OJ, OJ. And it was it was truly a jubilant day for OJ fans. And people were in shock across the country. So I guess my sense of sitting up there and watching the sea of injustice celebrated is a pretty amazing thing to think about. And here's a guy who got off by reaching out to those he left long ago to save him. But that trial was pretty much determined when Gil Garcetti picked downtown Los Angeles as the venue because then he could be tried not by a jury of his peers, but by those he'd left behind who had felt abused by the LAPD. And this was, you know, many thought a get even verdict. Well, I mean, another thing about it with me, famed psychologist out of New York, in addition to veteran investigative reporter Art Harris. Karen Stark, another thing is this.

When you think you know somebody, like legions of fans thought they knew O.J. Simpson. Remember the commercial? I guess it was for Avis Rent-A-Car. I can't really remember exactly what it was. It was Hertz.

Oh, sorry, sorry. Hertz. At least I knew it was a rental car. So he's running through the airport. I think he's got like something in his hands, maybe a bag or a suit or something. He's trying to, I guess, make a flight. Then he did the movies, and he was beyond football. He wasn't just a football star. I mean, many people thought Kieran Stark, that he was attractive.

I didn't. Of course, I never think a defendant is attractive physically because I know about them. Okay. But attractive to many people, athletic, the world at his fingertips, rich, successful, well-known, charismatic. And people, you know, thought they knew him because he had been in their homes on the TV set. It's hard to get past that when you think, oh, I just don't think Simpson would do it. You know what I mean, Karen? Okay. When people see people on television, through the media, they make immediate impressions

about how they feel about these. They sort of feel they are their personal friends. So they have extreme caring, like in the case of Jennifer Aniston, or they have tremendous hatred with Angelina Jolie for being a homebreaker. And in the case of OJ, he was seen as an all American hero. Everybody looked up to him. He was one of the first black men to be seen as someone that had made it and was terrific. And so they were very happy to know that he got off. Karen, you just hit on something I think is critically important, and that is your phraseology of all-American. All-American Art Harris, that really describes it. Now, you know, Art, I went

on from the district attorney's office to co-anchor a show with his lead defense attorney, Johnny Cochran, as you well know. And I was furious, Art, as I told you at the time. I blamed Cochran for getting Simpson off, right or wrong. And I would sit on that set. I would sit there and just seethe. And it took me a long time to accept that Cochran was doing his job as a defense lawyer. He didn't do the double murder. But I would always say, Cochran, you know he did it. This would be off camera, of course. And he never once, God rest his soul, say he was innocent.

I'll tell you he really did it. Or he was innocent. I'll tell you why. Every time, Art, he would say, jury acquitted him. That's all he would say. They were brilliant at throwing spaghetti against the wall to see what would stick, Nancy, and they created a reasonable doubt. So much smokescreen in the mind of jurors who may not have believed that he was innocent, but they had something to seize on. They had some excuse. They had something to wave and say, well, this could be true or that could be true. But you know what? He might not have made it through those lights near

his house I mean there were so many things you know the blood the contamination that were red herring thrown out there that a jury that was not that astute you know they ruled out anyone with high school math or science so they could confuse them with the DNA put him to sleep I. I was there, you know, through the whole trial, and the jurors were falling asleep listening to the experts drone on about the odds of the DNA. Well, see, that is when the lawyer has to jump in and stop the expert and say, bottom line, you and I were in court together a couple of times,

and it's your duty to break in and say, hey, whoa, wait. You know, we're just regular people. You got to break it down for us. Don't talk like a scientist. What are you saying? And I recall distinctly that I would go to the medical examiner's office repeatedly and work with the medical examiner who were brilliant and get them to talk and regular people talk.

You know what I mean? Hold on. I'm going to go to the lines art. Susan in New York. Hi, Susan. What's your question? Hi, Nancy Grace. I love you and your kids.

How are you? Susan, I'm great. And can I tell you why I'm great? Why? Because I think there's a very good chance that Simpson may stay behind bars, and P.S., my twins are now nine years old. My son,

Susan, is... I know. I followed them on... When you send pictures, I always love them. You're such a good mother. Oh, I wish I was a better mom. And you know what, Susan? John David, my son... Okay, they're in a phase, and Art, you're going to love this. Karen Stark, you're going to love this, because And you know what, Susan? John David, my son, okay, they're in a phase. And Art, you're going to love this.

Karen Stark, you're going to love this because you guys know them too. John David is in a phase where he's wearing all of his clothes inside out and backwards. And Lucy, Lucy's trying to play a ukulele, a ukulele. She saw some girl on YouTube with one, and that was just it. So that's what's happening with me. And another thing, speaking of the twins, Susan in New York, think about Simpson's children, how they grew up without a mother. Right.

So sad, you know, tragic. And with their father winding up in jail. What's your question, Susan in New York? Well, how can we prevent him from getting out? And I hope O.J. stays behind bars. He's a threat to society. Well, I can tell you this much. He's a threat to whoever he shacks up with next.

You know what? I don't know if anything can be done. People have written. People have emailed. People have left messages with the parole board. But the reality is, does any of that work? I mean, come on. Art Harris, let's address Susan's question.

The reality is, with, for instance, Charles Manson and all of his followers, they haven't gotten out. Many of them have not gotten out because of pressure. And do you think that's true in this case, Art Harris? Nancy, what's funny is if you notice all the documentaries, the 10-part series that won an Emmy about O about OJ and the trial and all the players, America seems to be starved for this celebrity. They have gone, had OJ withdrawal for nine years and suddenly the chance that he's getting out. I didn't. You didn't, Nancy, but I'm saying that just the, it's like there's this

cry in the Coliseum, you know, we've got to have OJ. It is quite surreal. It has nothing to do with justice. Are you talking about like when the throng called for Barabbas? Is that what you say? I guess so. And they let Barabbas go instead of Christ? Are you dragging Christ into this for Pete's sake? That is a great comparison, Nancy.

Don't even get off with me about dragging him into this. I don't want him in this pot so how do you stop that you know it's got to be somebody pulling out something he did and we've read that a guard actually got him off well there was something he was written up for taking a cookie that was stolen you knew that and there was a guard who wrote him up. Yes, he stole a cookie. He stole a cookie. He had a stolen cookie. He can buy whatever he wants. Do I still have Susan in New York? Yes. Susan, listen to this. I was reading about this and it sounds like a little thing. I know it sounds like a little thing, but it is indicative of what he's all about.

This guy has basically unlimited funds. Yes. Unlimited. Yes, yes. He's behind bars. He can buy whatever he wants to buy in the canteen, in the commissary. And what did he do? He stole. He stole cookies, and they caught him.

Who I feel bad for the most, besides his children, is the Goldman family, because they're never going to bring back his fat boy, their son. And I don't think that he should ever come out of jail again for what he did to all of those people. He ruined so many lives. He's a snake in the grass. He shouldn't come out. I agree with you, Susan, and I can only hope the parole board hears us today

because there will be a hue and cry like no other if this guy walks so what i'm saying aren't here is you brought up the cookie thing it's not about the cookie i don't give a flying fig about a cookie the point is with all the money he has at his fingertips he could buy whatever they have in the commissary but said he stole he stole the rules mean nothing to him art and he was written up by the guard nancy and the guard was persuaded by another guard to tear up her her piece of paper that cited him for this infraction that could have cost him parole so it's not in the record now nancy so there's no record of this little item and he's getting credit for helping inmates for teaching people for coaching, you know, the softball team, whatever he

did behind bars, he had a whole, he was, you know, he was an idol behind bars. So as a result, you know, in fact, he said to the parole board last time, you know, I feel respected by most of the inmates here. That's his whole thing. He wants respect. Oh, Susan, I'm with you. It just his whole thing. He wants respect. He demands, and he got it. Oh, Susan, I'm with you. It just turns my stomach. Because let me tell you, go to our website, Susan, because if you've got the stomach for it,

because the crime scene photos are there. And do I like them? No, I don't. But are they true? Yes, they are. And I've tried many a case where I don't like the evidence. The evidence made me sick. It made me cry.

I'd have horrible nightmares. Horrible. But it is the truth, and we cannot turn away from it. And hopefully the parole board will see. Hold on. Hold on. Susan in New York, thank you for calling us. Straight out to Dana in Vegas.

Hi, Dana. Hi, Nancy. How are you. Straight out to Dana in Vegas. Hi, Dana. Hi, Nancy. How are you? I am fit to be tied. I could chew a nail in half over Simpson about to be paroled. And right there in your backyard, what do you think? I know. I know.

I hope he doesn't get out. He is a horrible, horrible evil man, and I hope he stays in for what he did. None of us in Vegas want him out. You know, the thing is this. This is my fear. Oh, P.S. I just took the twins to Las Vegas. Not to gamble, of course.

You did. Yes, I did. But we went to the Hoover Dam. We had an awesome time. We got in one of those helicopters, and I took my mom and the twins down into the Grand Canyon. We had the best time and of course I had to take John David to see David Copperfield which was awesome by the way we had fun the best time I'm so glad it so I've got great great memories of Vegas I'm so glad this is what I'm worried about and I'm gonna go to you on this,

Art Harris. The parole board, I guess, under the law has to look at the armed robbery, not the double murder, Art. Right, exactly. And? And so did he pay for his crime? Did he do his time? And did he do it without a blemish? And the record will show that he was pretty black mark free behind bars. And, of course, he had a few friends looking out for him, including a guard who got another guard to tear up an infraction. But he had the inmates, as you said, fetching and doing things for him. And he was respected. He was like a hero behind bars, Nancy.

So he's been living in this bubble while people on the outside like you are seething. And his fans, I wonder, maybe they're expecting him to still be looking for the killer. But if you look at the pictures you have on your website of the crime scene, I wonder if you look really close, you'll see his imprints, his shoe prints in the blood. Remember the Bruno Maglis that were proved to be his and that were tracked to the shoes he bought? I mean, so everywhere you look, Nancy, it was a reminder that the evidence makes him guilty. How can you avoid the fact that DNA points to OJ? It's his blood at the crime scene. It's in the Bronco. It's everywhere. And they were able to somehow using the jury and using the prejudice and the anger at the LAPD to get between OJ's freedom and justice. And they were able to show the jury with enough reasonable doubt, hey, this is – you got enough here to let him walk.

And that's what happened. And now then he goes and he messes up and he holds up some guy with his goons with guns to get his, quote, autographed balls back that he says are his. And he gets nine years. And some say, well, that was payback. And lied about it. And lied about it. Stood up in front of the judge and said he was trying to get family heirlooms. That's a lie.

And he also said he didn't know the other people were armed. So Dana in Vegas, I just wonder if we can count on this parole board to do the right thing and keep him behind bars. Another thing, his girlfriend of 13 years, Christy Prody, was very explicit. Even as her family members questioned why would she even date him, she has come forward and stated she feared for her life while she was dating him and that she firmly believes O.J. Simpson murdered Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman. And it's based on comments he made to her during their relationship. July 22nd on Oxygen, the new network for crime. My name is Kelly Sigler. I was a prosecutor for over 20 years. their relationship. You will always see how cold justice is real. To get the guilty person put away, there's not a better feeling in the whole world if you're in law enforcement. Cold Justice returns July 22nd at 8, 7 central on Oxygen, the new network for crime.

Karen Stark, he moves from his fancy community that most people can only dream of where the double murder went down. Then he moves in with the Christine, Christy Brody, who says that Simpson subjected her to constant physical and emotional abuse. He threatened to kill her. Of course, he has denied it. And things he told her, things he told her made her convinced he murdered Nicole and Ron. What about that, Karen Stark? Well, Nancy, the court of public opinion, which certainly has decided at this point, for the most part, that he's guilty of the crime. I'm not the least bit surprised people do believe that he committed those crimes. Once you're an abuser, you're always an abuser. I actually interviewed women in LA wondering if they would go out with him once he got out. And they were blinded by the celebrity. And one

who looked a little bit like Nicole, who's blonde, told me, well, I don't think he'd kill me. This is the stardust in the eyes of someone like a Simpson who is so much, as you know, celebrity halo around him, which is so tarnished, but it's still enough pixie dust to fool a lot of people a lot of the time, and they don't have to look at it. Now here, a great question that Karen brought up, and that is, why didn't the murders matter to the parole board? He's not in jail for that, you know. That was, he got a pass for that in the eyes of the law, as you know, and so they've got to only look at how he has been in prison, and he's got a, you know, he got all

A's, and he was bragging to the parole board, you know, I helped a lot of inmates here. So has Leslie Van Houten, So have Charles Manson's followers. They have behaved behind bars, and they're still behind bars. So why can't Simpsons stay behind bars? Karen, stay with me. Back to the lines. Karen in Kansas City. Karen, thank you for calling into SiriusXM. What is your question, dear?

Hi, sweetie. I've just loved you to death for years. I can just say that to begin with. I've just loved you to death for years. I can just say that to begin with. I've just loved you for years. Thank you. Yes, no problem. My husband and I used to watch you, like, religiously because we're totally for justice. My question is, why is the justice system so unbalanced?

I have two sons. They've been murdered. One guy gets 120 days for shooting him in the head because he says it's an accident. September, another one was euthanized in his sleep. And the Springfield, Missouri police investigators won't even work it. It's like they're keeping it so like isolated because it's a college so I've dealt with all this and I just don't like criminals and I think he needs to stay in there for the rest of his life and I just hope they find who killed my son Karen and I want to tell you something I got to tell you something Karen in Kansas City I hear you I hear you. I hear you. And people think that after you become a crime victim,

which you are, that after time passes, it goes away. That is not true. I know from the murder of my fiance. Of course, now I have a husband and two wonderful children that have changed my life. I've been so blessed. But I've never forgotten Keith or his murder, and it has changed my whole life. It was devastating. And when I think in this case, I'm going to throw this to Art Harris, the children of O.J. Simpson, how it must have devastated them. I wonder if they ever actually accepted that their dad murdered their mom. What do you think, Art?

How do you accept that? Oh, you know, how can they possibly accept that? Because if they do, then that means they have no one to look up to, no one to look forward to seeing. But deep down, Nancy, you have to know they do know because of how their lives maybe have turned out and how they've turned that, you know, that I guess loss into sort of a self hatred. And, uh, Karen, a psychologist would know better than me, but I remember speaking of loss, you were the first one you, I think I was the first reporter you ever told about, about Keith, about your fiance.

None of the Atlanta criminal bar understood why you resisted them and fought them so hard for the victims. And they, until I guess they realized, they saw that story of mine where you, for the first time many years ago, talked about your loss, that you had been a victim too. And so that was a reason that was a very good one that they just, I mean, they were trashing you for all sorts of other reasons But you felt it like this this this mother on the line who has felt the fallout from? Personal tragedy and the Goldman still feel and unless the question was how do you get the parole board to change it? you've got to have enough of these people who still suffer go before them and give a litany of if not proof, but of human sorrow that this

guy getting out would rub salt in the wounds. And if that overshadows his, quote, stellar behavior behind bars, maybe, just maybe, they would keep him in for the full sentence. I don't know. Nancy, you know the parole board better than I. Well, I know this. That is the one thing. I know this that is the one thing and i know this what karen in kansas city just said really i don't i want to say hurt me

in the sense that i thought i had really suffered when keith was murdered but the thought that you would lose your children your child and she lost two of them. This is what happened to Ron Goldman's parents. They lost their boy, their baby boy, all grown up, handsome, wonderful, slaughtered, slaughtered. And I just want to add when it comes to the children that they're in a bind because it's their father they have a natural love for their father and it's very hard to accept that someone that you love that way would actually kill your mother very very hard as a matter of fact every time i've tried a case of homicide where it's domestic homicide the children were never wanted to accept that the remaining parent committed murder. We are taking calls.

I want to go out to Dara in Redding, Pennsylvania. Hi, Dara. Thank you for calling. I just wanted to say that I've seen an interview. It was a short, probably less than a minute interview. O.J. was sitting there, and they said he's 70 years old now, and he was talking into the camera, and he said, I've missed my children's graduation

i've missed my you know all these things that he's missed and he says not anybody's going to contest my getting out and he just had that smirk on his face that just when they mentioned the cookie incident just like he had that smirk on his face when he was trying the glove on where he said if it doesn't fit you must acquit that smirk that he has on his face and i think what he's doing like like i don't know if it's a psychologist that you had on that said that he's so narcissistic that and i think that's what he's doing he even though he can buy it he's doing it just to see if he can get away with it and i think that's exactly why he did it that's exactly why he did it and i just and the thing with the parole is just watching him,

just putting my personal feelings aside and just looking at him, how somebody that I wouldn't know, like the parole board doesn't know him personally, and how he would say about his children and being a parent saying, well, and you think of your children, and I think it's going to depend on how sincere he comes across is what they're going to rule on. I mean, granted his crimes that he committed and got away with, but I think that they just have to stay open-minded to this one case. And that's what they have to base their decision on. And they're going to look, even though they may have heard about this cookie, they can't use that because he was never wrote up for it. So I think that's what he's going to play to. And with them puppy dog eyes, and it'll feel bad for me.

And that's just my personal opinion. But I hope he doesn't get out, but I have a strong feeling he probably will. I hope the parole board will see through that charade, that mask he's been wearing. And I think you're absolutely right that he will play that game, Dara. Thanks. Joe in Miami. Hi, Joe. What's your question?

I don't have a question. I have a comment because I met him. When he came back to Florida, he had a home here. And one day I left my call of his service to Lincoln Mercury and Coral Gables, went to the golf course, came back late afternoon carrying my golf bag. And I heard a voice say, those are pretty good clubs. I said, yeah, they are. And it was OJ about 15 feet away waddling toward me.

And I decided not to call him what I wanted to if I ever ran into him a a effing murderer I decided I couldn't do that he came up to me he tried to tell me that he had an investigator looking for the murderer and of course all of that and he gave me a lot of crap and I simply said I never shook hands, never said goodbye. His car was ready, and he left. And my impression was he didn't need me to call him names because he'd have to think about what he did every day for the rest of his life. You know, Joe, it's amazing to me that you would stand up and say that when he could have punched you with one hand and knocked you flat. You did what a lot of people wouldn't have the guts to do.

With me is Art Harris, who was at the trial every day. We covered the trial together at the time. I was still a felony prosecutor at the time. The legal reasoning for parole, as we all all know is did the person do their time is there a reason to keep them behind bars have they committed any prison violations but here's the deal it's bigger than that and i really believe art that we are on the brink and what I mean by that is, yes, they could let him go, but also aren't. They can keep him. It is solely within their discretion.

A parole board, there is no appeal from a parole board. Their ins can be taken to the Nevada Supreme Court. But if you look at the arrogance that has gone into his life of denial, thinking he's above the law, going back to Nicole, him blaming her for she got what she deserved. My investigation of him and their lifestyle, he did a lot of cocaine and he was the one who introduced it into their relationship. And he had a real problem. But his ability as a narcissistic personality is to compartmentalize his responsibility and what he saw provoked him to do what, quote, he had to do that, you know, she deserved it. So this is a total injustice to allow someone who can justify themselves, you know, into taking a life, two lives like he did.

Another thing, Art, it was predicted that once he was acquitted the first time, somebody would take a shot at him. That never happened. As a matter of fact, he became a celebrity post-acquittal. Made fortune signing autographs. Yeah, people loved taking pictures of him. And that's how he taking pictures and paid him and the other thing is this he's been signing photographs and autographs behind bars like

a machine i've been told reportedly making tons of money behind bars right now i want the right thing to happen i want justice and justice is that he not get out. The parole board can keep him in if they want to. Out to the lines, Julie in Jacksonville. Hi, Julie. Hi, so nice to talk to you. It's nice to talk to you, too. I have a real quick question. Okay, hit me. I think you've always done a wonderful job, by the way. I've followed you for years. Thank you. My question is, if he does get paroled, doesn't he have civil judgments against him? What is the possibility that if he does get paroled, that he's going to have to pay financially for the rest of his life? Yes, he does have a $30 million civil judgment against him. Go ahead, Art. Nancy, you see, the thing about that is that his

NFL pension, the way it's defined, that is actually protected from any possible judgment. He is, you know, he's got this money has been building up every year since he's been behind bars, his annual income from the pension. And so he's coming out a much richer man than he went in because he hadn't been able to spend it and throw it away on various pursuits. But you can't, the Goldman's can't touch touch it nor can they touch all the money you just mentioned he got from signing footballs and autographs and and sign and and photographs behind bars or at these shows and that's how he made a fortune in cash and never why is that because he did it in cash and kept it under the table yeah sure and that's and that's why these well you know even this though art from all all the years since he was acquitted back to Julian Jacksonville, he never paid them one red penny.

Never. I don't know how he was making all his money. Never. And I guarantee you, when you don't know a horse, look at his track record. He's not going to pay a penny, and he's going to walk scot-free on it. The clock is ticking down it is now less than 72 hours till a parole board will hear evidence to determine whether notorious football great orenthal james simpson who many believe is responsible for the brutal murders

of two people nicole brown and ron goldman then convicted at trial on an armed robbery, once again believing he's above the law, will walk free. With me, famed psychologist out of New York, Karen Stark, and ace investigative journalist, reporter Art Harris. And we are taking your calls out to James in Auburn, Maine. James, thank you for calling. What is your question? Well, my question is this, Nancy. If OJ does walk, does it mean that he's going to end up having bodyguards protect him?

Because, I mean, there's lots of people out there that don't like him. I mean, I don't have nothing against the guy himself, but I'm just afraid that if he gets out and he does walk, his life may be in danger because there are people out there that want to wring his neck for all the crimes that he's done. You know, interesting question, James. All the years that I've been in the criminal justice business, since my fiancé was murdered many, many years ago,

I've always heard about, quote, jailhouse justice. Oh, this guy did this on the outside then the guys in jail are going to get him for that very rarely happens and when you don't know what's going to happen in the future look what's happened in the past all those years after Simpson was acquitted nobody did anything nobody and another thing people actually loved him, James, in Auburn, Maine. They wanted their pictures with him. They wanted his autograph, his autographed photo, selfies, running up to him at restaurants and events. I mean, he couldn't beat the people off.

And this is after all that evidence came to light so i doubt pretty seriously that anything is going to happen to oj simpson when he walks other than he'll shack up with another nicole brown look-alike and he'll keep that football pension coming in and rolling in money from signing memorabilia and getting paid cash under the table that's what i I think is going to happen, James, except we'll probably commit another crime. What do you think is going to happen, James? I don't know. It's just I hope he stays out of trouble and he doesn't cause any more than what he's already, you know, and I'm kind of hoping that they don't release him.

I'm praying. I've been praying every night that they keep him in jail, but, you know, it's up to them what they want to do, you know. So I just pray that whatever happens, that, you know, that it's going to be a good thing, that he, you know, will hopefully learn a lesson from all this if he does at all. I agree with you on that. I mean, all we can do is watch, hope, and pray. What do you think about the parole board members, Art Harris? Do you think they're feeling any pressure as it relates to this? Well, they've got to be feeling, you know, being in the crossfire,

but they're not very public figures, so it's not like their photos are out there on Facebook and people can single them out and you can lobby them like you would your congressman. They're pretty much above. Well, I know who they are. Tony Korda, Susan L. Jackson, Adam Endel, and the chairman, Connie S. Bisbee. What I don't understand is why the folks who are feeling the pain from, or would be feeling it if he is let go, there has not been a concerted effort to somehow quantify the torment that they have felt all the years,

and they would feel the salt being rubbed in their wounds by him walking around free. Why that hasn't been put in front of them, or has it been, we haven't really felt the weight of it. We don't know what they have felt from that. Well, I have a few specifics. It's my understanding the parole board is appointed by the governor. I know exactly who the parole board members are who are going to determine Simpson's fate. They are Tony Korda, C-O-R-D-A, Susan L. Jackson, Adam Endel, E-N-D-E-L, and the chairman, Connie S. Bisbee, B-brother, I-S-B-E-E. There's a chance they could split two to two. There are normally seven commissioners in total, three of them normally stationed in the board's Vegas office. If the four commissioners

split, the other three are typically called in to continue the voting with a minimum four votes for one side needed to determine an outcome. But Commissioner Marie Silva retired June 30. Now outcome but commissioner marie silva retired june 30 now there are only six board members the new commissioner won't officially assume position until after the hearing so if they're deadlocked in that rare case simpson will be denied parole for another six months, then there will be a follow-up hearing. This is going down this Thursday. This goes down Nevada time, 10 a.m. Now, we anticipate the decision to be announced on Thursday. Deliberations usually don't take a lot of time, and we anticipate no more than 20 to 30 minutes for the parole board to come back onto the record.

Sometimes hearings are not conducted with a full majority, but we believe we will have a decision Thursday. The hearing itself will take place in Carson City, Nevada, where the Nevada Board of Parole Commissioners will meet. That is what I know right now. If he's denied parole, he will continue behind bars with an anticipated date of 9-29-22. How many votes does it require for him to be paroled? Four. And what is next for him if he is paroled? The board will review the parole plan. Halfway houses are usually requested as a plan

if there's no other residents available. We're going to know most likely on Thursday. That's what I know. Let's go straight out to the lines. Elizabeth, Pasco County, Florida. Hi, Elizabeth. What's your question? So excited to be on.

Well, what do you think? Will he be paroled? You know, a lot of people are saying the parole board should let him go because he has not had any infractions behind bars. I say no, absolutely not. And hopefully the parole board will have some degree of decency and keep this guy behind bars. I mean, it goes all the way from a double murder

to allegations he beat his girlfriend when he got acquitted to armed robbery all the way to stealing a cookie behind bars as if he didn't have the money to buy whatever he wanted. Elizabeth, yes, I think you should stay behind bars. If you disagree with me, tell me why. No, I'm afraid this guy's going to get loose in Florida, and I personally don't want him in the state of Florida. Oh, yeah, he's coming to Florida, Elizabeth, because he'll want to get another house there,

and under the law of Florida, those civil judgments can't take away his house. I don't blame you. Who wants O.J. Simpson in their backyard? You want to run into him at Publix? Uh-uh. Or the golf course, Nancy. He's right out there, too. What, Elizabeth?

He's right out there, too, because I know people in Miami that said they see him on the golf courses. I heard another caller said they ran right into him on the golf course. So he's like a big, immediately he goes into I'm a celebrity. The whole thing starts again. I hear you, Elizabeth in Pasco County. You know, I hope the parole board thinks about Floridians as well. Kay in San Diego. Hello.

Hi, Kay. What's your question? Hi. I just wondered, you know, how much his popularity influences the parole board and overrides justice. Now, if you put a woman in his shoes and she did all of that, there are two standards, one for men and one for women. It wouldn't be carried on and be as considerate against the woman as the man has. He has more privileges. Oh, there's definitely a double standard, Kay, in San Diego.

Nobody likes to talk about it, but there is a double standard. You're right. He would have been behind bars at the get-go. I agree with you, and your question is, how much does celebrity play into it? A lot. Now, it didn't bother that Nevada jury. They convicted him,

and I only hope the parole board, who you cannot appeal a parole board decision. I hope they have the backbone to keep him behind bars. Kay in San Diego, fingers crossed. thank you for calling joe ann in ohio hi joe and thank you for calling what is your question hi it's great love

you thank you i don't know i'm a little confused about all this with oj um yeah i've been watching you since court tv yeah i'm sure you remember when i was on with johnny cochran now that was something yeah that was a good show. What's your question, dear? Well, I don't know. I'm a little confused with OJ over here. First of all, I don't know why everyone's putting the double murder in with this case. He got acquitted of it.

He did. I don't know why. And I think he got overkilled on this case because of the murders, you know, that he got acquitted of. And I don't think that's fair. You know, and I'm not sure if he killed him or not. Well, I hear what you're saying. And you know what, Art Harris? A lot of people think that.

They do, as they are entitled to think what they want. What about it, Art Harris? Well, what is justice for O.J. Simpson, Nancy? You know, he's someone who loves the adulation and love the acceptance at the country club. Now, the worst thing that's happened to him is that he's been banned from private clubs. He has to play golf on a public course. Are you kidding me? You know what? I wish I could just reach through this microphone and grab you by your ears and shake you. did you actually just tell me his punishment he's got to play the public course are you kidding me i'm that's right and you know in

his mind he has been accepted in spite of all that if you see i mean celebrity trumped justice in this case as it often does but in his case especially and so he went back out and he was playing golf but he couldn't get back into his private clubs because he was a pariah. I think I've got Charlotte in Florida. Hi, Charlotte. What's your question, dear? Yes. My question is when OJ said he would spend all his time and money finding the murderer of his ex-wife, why didn't he just look in the mirror? Because he did it. You just made me laugh the first time. So many believe that he did it. Charlotte, what is your take on whether he should walk? Oh, I think he should stay right where he is, behind bars. He should have been there all this time. I agree. And this is what's bugging me, Charlotte. A lot of people are saying, well, this is not about the double murder,

and they're right about that. But you know what? It's about justice. And right now, those parole board members have the power at their fingertips to seek justice and do the right thing. It is within their discretion whether he stays in or walks. It is not appealable. They have the power at their fingertips to make this decision.

And yes, this is not about the double murders, but this is about seeking justice. So, Art Harris, give me your best guess. Are they going to let him go, Art? Nancy, sadly, sadly, I think they might. And I think that the reason would be they don't want to discourage other inmates. But what is the bigger message here? That they will condone a certain level of evil in the world? I don't know. What matters to me is justice. Justice was not served originally, and this is a chance to get justice. Nancy Grace, Crime Stories, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.