Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - WISCONSIN DAD OF 3 DEAD IN LAKE, MISSING, OR SNUGGLED UP WITH UZBEKISTAN LOVER?

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

On the morning of August 12, Ryan Borgwardt’s wife contacted authorities, reporting that her husband hadn’t returned from a kayaking trip on Green Lake the previous night and wasn’t answering his phone. The Green Lake County Sheriff’s Office began a search around 5:32 p.m., focusing on Borgwardt’s last known location at Green Lake. Deputies soon located his vehicle and trailer parked near Dodge Memorial Park. About an hour later, authorities found a capsized kayak in the western part of the lake, where the water is approximately 220 feet deep. They discovered the life jacket still attached to the kayak, and volunteers joined deputies in the search for Borgwardt. Twenty-four hours into the search, crews deployed a drone and boats to perform a grid search of the lake. As efforts continued, Sheriff Mark Podoll announced that they were focusing on the lake’s deepest areas, covering hundreds of acres with the assistance of Bruce’s Legacy, a nonprofit specializing in search and recovery. The sheriff indicated they were now searching for a body, believing Borgwardt drowned in the lake. Three cadaver dogs and a dive team were brought in to assist with recovery efforts. Sheriff Podoll and his team then shifted their focus to reexamine the investigation from the beginning. They soon discovered that Canadian law enforcement had run Borgwardt’s name on August 13. Although Borgwardt’s passport was initially found at his home, investigators learned he had been issued a new passport on May 22 after reporting the original one lost. Borgwardt’s wife, Emily, provided his laptop for investigation. A digital forensic analysis revealed that Borgwardt had replaced the hard drive and cleared all browser history the day he disappeared. Investigators believe he is now in Europe. Further findings showed Borgwardt transferred funds to a foreign bank, changed his email address, and had been communicating with a woman from Uzbekistan before his disappearance. The investigation also revealed that he had taken out a $375,000 life insurance policy seven months before vanishing and had purchased airline cards. Sheriff Podoll stated, after all they had uncovered, that Borgwardt is “not in our lake.”   Note: After our Crime Stories broadcast, the Green Lake County Sheriff's Office posted this message on its Facebook page, "We do not believe the Tick Tock video is Ryan. We are in contact with the interviewer. Thank you to all for alerting us of his existence. We have verified this is not Ryan by contacting people who know Ryan."    Joining Nancy Grace today:  Gregory Morse - Partner at the law firm of King Morse, PLLC. Current CJA counsel (Southern District of Florida), Former West Palm Beach Public Defender's Office. Author: "The Untested," website: kingmorselaw.com Keith Cormican - Underwater Search and Recovery Expert. Director, Bruce's Legacy. Searched for 23 days for Ryan in Green Lake. Dr. John Delatorre –  Licensed Psychologist and Mediator (specializing in forensic psychology); Psychological Consultant to Project Absentis: a nonprofit organization that searches for missing persons; Twitter, IG, and TikTok – @drjohndelatorre Barry Golden – Former Senior Inspector for the U.S. Marshals Service, Owner of Golden Consulting and Investigations Baylee Boomhower  - Mental Health Content Creator; TikTok: @authenticalpha/Instagram:@authenticalphaco/ Instagram: bayleeboomhower/; YouTube: @authenticalpha   Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline Investigative Reporter  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A Wisconsin husband and father of three. Is he dead, drowned in a massive lake? Is he missing? Or is he snugged up with his Uzbekistan lover? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

Thank you for being with us. A Wisconsin husband and father of three reported missing after he never comes home from a kayaking day trip. On August 12, 2024, at 5.32 p.m., our office received a call from the Dodge County Sheriff's Office in reference to a subject that did not return home that evening. And the last known location was Green Lake. Deputies headed that way and checked areas around the lake and found Ryan's vehicle along with his trailer parked in the area of Dodge Memorial Park. We immediately deployed our boat and at 631 two of our deputies found a capsized kayak in the western part of the lake in the area of 220 foot depth of water. Where is the missing

father of three and we thought dutiful and loving husband. His wife is refusing to comment until she knows the truth about Ryan Borgwart. But this is not about her. This is about him. She is left with paying the house payment, taking care of the children, and trying to move forward while they ask, where's daddy? But my question is, where is Ryan Borgwart? Joining me in All-Star Panel to make sense of what we know right now. But listen to this. The last contact with the phone and with Brian was around 1045 and when we first got it it was around 6 o'clock

the next morning. I immediately called my partners through the DNR and requested votes. My second call was to Bruce's Legacy. Bruce's Legacy has helped us in the past with drownings that we've had on our lake. And the reason why is because of the depth of our lake.

Our lake is 238 feet, the largest inland lake in Wisconsin. What a massive search. Before I go to Keith Cormackan, the underwater search recovery expert and director of Bruce's Legacy, who searched for 23 days. Divers put in danger to find the missing dad. Hold tight, Keith Cormackan. First to Alexis Tereschuk joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Alexis, I want to start with dad kayaking alone on the river. Tell me about that. So he goes off on a boy's trip, a solo trip, while his wife stays home and takes care of the three children. Am I understanding that correctly? It's exactly right.

Fork work goes off. he goes to this lake it is it's a pretty big lake and and it is the actual deepest lake inland in wisconsin and so he goes off alexis alexis i looked it up i researched the lake i'm glad you said that is 7 340 acres and 27 miles of shore and goes nearly 240 feet deep. You're right. Go ahead. And it's summer. It's August. So it's Wisconsin for folks.

Wisconsin is pretty far north. It stays light much later there. So he goes for an evening kayak. Wife is not suspicious at all. This is something he does. He's outdoorsy. He likes kayaking. They live near this lake. It's part of their family life. So he goes kayaking and at 10 o'clock, about 1045 at night, he sends his wife a text and he says, hey, I'm about to head home now. And that is the last thing that anyone heard from him. Wow. So he goes kayaking and he's never heard from again. Take a listen to what the Green Lake County Sheriff Mark Padel says. We assembled around around 8 30 that Monday morning to get our plan in place as to what we were going to do. As you can see in the screen behind me, it shows the location of data guides that guided our search. There was a number of pings that we got from the phone that Ryan had contact with his wife.

And the last one where it shows you on there, it says last ping. That was one where he told her that he was going to be turning around and heading towards shore soon. We then got another ping around 1150-ish. And that was just the last ping that we got on the phone. 1150-ish at night, I take it, Alexis Tereshchuk? Yes, it was at night. It was that evening. So he sent the text message to his wife.

He says, I'm heading back to shore, meaning I'm on the lake. I'm going to head back to shore. Then I'll drive home. And then they get one more ping right on the area of the lake where he had been kayaking, where the first text message was sent from. And that is it. Nothing else from this phone. And when is daddy reported missing? That night. She panics. His wife panics that night. But so let's talk with midnight. The next day, she calls the police. They immediately, first thing in the morning, they send somebody, they send a team out to the lake to look for him. This isn't, at the time, they just thought

perhaps he's drowned. Lots of accidents can happen on the water. So the police immediately go out to search. He is a dad of three. He is missing. The wife calls. She has no idea of anything that would be wrong with him and is panicked about it. Okay, so the last ping is at 11.50 at night, p.m. She reports him missing. You said two different things, that night and the following morning. When did she report him missing, simply put? That night.

So mom immediately reports him missing and the search is on. Straight out to Keith Cormackin joining us, underwater search recovery expert, director Bruce's legacy, searched for 23 days in dangerous water for Borgwort. Explain to me, Keith, how side scan sonar or sonar actually works. Well, our sonar is a very sophisticated four foot long torpedo. I have extra weight on it. So it weighs a total of 100 pounds that needs to be towed on a cable and it needs to be towed approximately 10 feet off the bottom. That generates sonar images of absolutely everything on the bottom.

We can see, you know, rock formations. We can see tree branches and just very great detail. So we cover an area of about 100 feet on each side of the boat, and we can't see directly underneath the tow fish, so we have to overlap. So it does take some time um and the yeah we are able to watch it on a screen and in the boat and uh mark targets and it gives us exact waypoints of the location of targets and such once we locate any targets avengers and we put their underwater robot down it has lights cameras capabilities, and its own sonar

to drive up to these targets and take a look at them, see if it's what we're looking for or not. Another question, Keith Cormican, when you are out on this dark water, could you explain how, when you're looking at sonar, and everybody thinks of fish sonar, a lot of people use it when they're out fishing, and you see something, you can't really tell exactly what it is. Keith Cormacan, how do you tell a person from debris such as, you know, a tree branch or some other form of debris? Well, that's, that's the part that takes a lot of practice. Um, you know, there's a lot of images we get of bodies that are what I call no brainers, you know, they they're easy to Easy to identify, but the ones that make me

You know, pretty popular is the ones that those those tougher images. They may be lit lions, you know, in a unit in and around the log weeds debris uh so they kind of blend in with the surrounding areas so you know i've had i don't know i've done this a lot i spent a lot of time every year doing it so i've kind of gained a i don't know a knack you might say to be able to identify bodies uh even in the hardest way to identify them. So I've been very fortunate. Question. What is your response? How do you feel about a 23-day search when now we think this guy may be snugged up with a lover in Uzbekistan? Well, my first initial response when I first heard about it is,

you know, honestly, my first response was I was relieved because I had been second-guessing my capabilities for several days. Couldn't figure out why I could not find this guy. We covered this lake more thorough than I've ever covered a lake. The second reaction was, you know, I was there when the sheriff hit the family with a bombshell of the new information. And I seen the response of the family. And it was pretty horrifying news for them to see, you know, the reaction is, you know, was very tough. So, you know, I felt a lot of remorse for them and what they're going to be faced with.

So that's very tough. You know, yeah, I'm not happy with what he did. And we encountered a lot of expenses, which damaged our equipment. So, yeah, I'm not happy with what he did, the choices he made. You know, people don't realize all the expenses and the anguish that we require. How much expenses? How much do you think you're out? Well, I know for sure the first two weeks I spent about $10,000, some in repairs,

and then I had to replace one of my uh piece of the equipment up forty five hundred dollars so so yeah i i had a tough first two weeks um and you know and then i i damaged a couple props because of the shallow water in some areas so the sheriff's department was was very good about uh you, taking care of that, in which, in turn, one of the local businesses actually donated a couple props. So the local community, it was just amazing down there. An interesting piece of evidence is found on the lake. Listen. There were some boaters out there in one boat with two fishermen on. We're casting along the bottom of the lake, and they come up with

a fishing rod. That fishing rod was taken as evidence, photographed, and was identified by the wife of the victim. So we continued to search, figuring that could have been a point of interest. And at 3.30, 3.45 that same day, Tuesday, we found, someone called and said that they found a tackle box. The stuff inside that tackle box had a wallet and keys and a license belonging to ryan search and rescue organizations the sheriff's office and volunteers scour Wisconsin's Green Lake, but there's no sign of the missing father. Where is Ryan Borgwart? Is he dead?

Did he drown? Is he missing somehow? Or is he snugged up with his lover in Uzbekistan? Those are the questions right now. And joining me, an all-star panel to make sense of what we know. Now we understand cadaver dogs are brought out on the water. A massive body of water, 7,340 acres, 27 miles ashore, 237 feet deep. Look at that.

The dangers to the divers immense. Now, dangers to the cadaver dogs. And isn't it true to Barry Golden, former U.S. Marshal, now P.I., Barry, cadaver dogs are specially trained to pick up a scent in water. And it's very difficult for the dog in that type of water, 237 feet deep, but dogs can pick up a scent in water. Yes. And it's very taxing on these dogs. And, you know, if it's a quick investigation or a quick search, these dogs may pick up something or a body or a scent of a body or something like that really quick. But when this goes on and on and on, these dogs get stressed out and they get tiring and they're exhausted after a while. So sometimes they have to use two

and three dogs and work them in shifts to keep on going because this is a huge lake. So it's a big undergoing to get these dogs out there. Sometimes every department doesn't have a cadaver dog and they have to go to other departments to borrow those dogs. Other canine dogs always come in and help out because these dogs get very exhausted searching and searching and searching and walking through these woods. And then a surprise. Keith from Bruce's Legacy.

And he said to me, he said, Sheriff, he said, I've done a lot of searching and I can't find him. He also told me that, Sheriff, don't worry. I'm not giving up. He called the company and was asking for another piece of equipment, a top-notch sonar, and it was a new one, but it was going to be a couple weeks old. And he said, we've got to go a different direction. And they did. The direction we went was offline,

and we found out that his name was run on August 13th. Wow, yeah. That was something we didn't expect. That's the Green Lake County Sheriff Mark Podell speaking to us. You know, I've got to clarify, Alexis Tereschuk, joining us, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter. Sheriff says his name was run August 13. Now, remember, he has his water mishap on August 11. What did the sheriff mean by that?

His name was run. Ryan Borgwart's name was run. What happened was that his passport was used in Canada. So at the border crossing, it was discovered. They put his name, I suppose, into a national database with his passport information, and it showed up as him going into Canada the next two days later. So it went missing on August 11th. People started searching.

After a 23-day search, putting lives at risk, dogs at risk. Dogs at risk. I can't tell you. And I've been on a lot of deep dives, literally deep dives in dark water all across the world. It can be very dangerous. Think about it. But aside from that, what about his wife and his children at home? To Bailey, excuse me, sorry, Billy, to Dr. John Delatore, licensed psychologist specializing in forensic psychology. You can find him at resolutionfcs.com. Dr. Delatore, how can you allow your wife, your spouse, and your children to think you're dead while your passport lets you enter Canada. Yeah, listen, we're going to talk about this guy and we're going to I think we're going to come up with some ideas that this is not really someone who is capable of having a difficult conversation. This is a guy who's easily manipulated. Right. He's constantly wanting

attention, but he's not getting the attention that he wants. You know, let me use a legal phrase on you, Delatory. What the hell are you talking about? He is easily manipulated? Jackie, have I gone insane? Is this just a bad dream? No, this is real. Delatory, what are you saying?

He's easily manipulated? I asked you about his wife and his children and all of those people, the divers, the men and women out there risking their lives at 240 feet below the surface trying to find this POC. He doesn't care about them. And you tell me he's manipulated? He cares about something other than them. He cares about things other than his family. He doesn't care that he put an entire community at risk. He doesn't care about any of that stuff.

Like his son-to-be lover in Uzbekistan. Yes. Then why are you telling me he's easily manipulated? My rear end. Because, I mean, could he be talking to someone in Uzbekistan? I mean, sure, but he's most likely talking to some man in Southeast Asia who's convinced him to start donating all kinds of money. Okay, so control yourself. Okay. Delatory. You're worried that he could be

talking to a guy in his underwear in New Jersey and not a hottie from Uzbekistan? That's what you're focused on? I'm not worried about that. Why are you even talking about that? That's not what I asked you. But I'm not worried about what he's doing. I asked you, how could you let your wife and children think you're dead? I've lived through my fiance's murder. I know what it feels like to think he's dead. And every time my husband is late or he doesn't land on time, I think, is he dead? That's what happens. He doesn't love them anymore. That's what this woman is probably still going through.

He doesn't love his wife or his children anymore. He doesn't love them anymore at all. He doesn't care about what they're feeling. Did he ever? Did he ever? Probably at some point, but certainly not now. You know, just Dr. Delatore, I know you have a lot of degrees and you are a renowned psychologist and mediator, but I don't know what to think about you right now. I ask you about how could you let your wife and children think you're dead all this time when you're shacked up with a hottie in Uzbekistan, or so we think. And you talk to me about how he's manipulated by some naked guy online and whatever.

I don't care. I care about what he's done to his wife and family, if in fact this is true. You know what? Control won't put him in the corner. I'm going to give him a few minutes to think about what he has said. Gregory Morse joining me, high profile lawyer with King and Morse. Current CGA Council, Southern District of Florida, former public defender and author of The Untested on Amazon. You can find him at KingMorseLaw.com. Gregory,

what about it? Is this a crime if it's true? Well, no, it's not a crime if it's true. People lie to their spouses all the time. People tell their spouses or their children they're going to the corner store and they never come home. And even if it is a crime, Nancy, it doesn't really matter because we don't have an extradition treaty with Uzbekistan if that's in fact where he is. Maybe there could be a crime with this passport application. But how do you prove he didn't lose his passport? That's not an easy thing to prove. And that's a low-grade felony anyway. So even if we had an extradition treaty with Uzbekistan, the government probably wouldn't spend their time to get him back.

Maybe the moral police should be looking for him, but the police police should stop wasting their time. And he didn't do anything illegal as far as I could tell, except maybe the passport thing. And even that. I don't know who you're referring to as the moral police. I guess me. I'm not the church lady. But haven't you heard about prosecutions of people that fake their disappearance while the government racks up thousands and thousands of dollars while they're all out searching for the missing person. Well, he faked his disappearance to his wife and then he left. She called the police and said he was missing.

She called the police and did these things. So you're transferring that conduct to him. Not her fault, but she took the acts that could lead down the path of criminal culpability. Joining me right now is a very special guest, Bailey Boomhauer, mental health content creator. You can find her on TikTok, Authentic Alpha, on Insta, Authentic Alpha CO. Bailey Boomhauer, before I ask you any questions, I've just got to show this. Why? Do you need advice on anything?

Do I go to Uzbekistan or stay here? Say that one more time. Do I go to Uzbekistan or stay here? Do you have family there? No. Why do you want to go? To meet a woman. To meet a woman.

And it was Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan. You don't like American women? No, they're familiar. They're familiar. Is that a bad thing? I guess he wants some strange, as some of my defendants have said. Okay, that's Bailey Boomhauer, who's with us right now, talking to a guy that looks a lot like Bogwart. Okay, I didn't take his fingerprint or get his DNA buckle swab, but that looks like Bogwart to me. Is it? Wait, excuse me. But that looks like Borgwart to me. Is it, wait, excuse me, but that looks like Borgwort to me. Joining me, Bailey Boomhauer. Bailey, what prompted you to ask advice from the Borgwort lookalike? I was just doing my advice series and then this man came up on his bike and then started asking all those questions.

And he, after like looking into more, it looks like it could be Ryan. Take a listen to more of Billy Boomhauer's interview with a man we believe to be missing dad, Ryan Borgwart. So you've given up on meeting someone here? No, I'm married. Oh. Yeah.

But you want to find someone else? Empty nest. I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking you. Wait, empty nest? What do you mean? Empty nest. My kids are out of the house now. Wait. So you want to find... like adopt a child? No, no. I want to find a companion that I'm content with. And more! I think that requires you to divorce someone first. Well, maybe.

Or is she okay with that? That's a good question. Remains to be seen. Have you guys had a conversation about that? So would it be like a throuple or something? No. Okay. Oh, you guys would get a divorce, possibly?

Possibly, yeah. Bailey, did you ever imagine that that, I guess, beachside video you took would be part of a missing persons case? I had no clue. And then it wasn't until recently that people started tagging me and, like, tagging all these news channels and commenting that they think it was Ryan. Wow. Let's see a picture of Borgwort and compare. Okay.

Yeah. I think we've got some more. You be the judge. Is she talking to this guy? That's an older picture. He has less hair than he did in that most recent picture. Okie dokie. All right.

Let's take a listen to more of Billy Boomhauer's interview with who we believe to be Ryan Borgward. Do you just feel like there's no love left between you guys? Diminished. Diminished? Well, I think you guys should definitely have that discussion and see where things are going between you two before you leave the country. Yeah. But, yeah, I think you guys should sort out where your marriage is right now.

I think that's the first thing to do. I'm going to just go out on a limb and go back to Dr. John Delatore, licensed psychologist. Dr. Delatore, you earlier, you were talking about how he, Borgwart, was manipulated online. You do hear what he is saying to Bailey Boomhauer, right? He has, quote, diminished love for his wife after she's given birth to three of his children and taking care of them and him. And now he's like, it's diminished. Did you hear that? I did hear that. Yeah. And he's still think he's being manipulated. Yeah. Again, I do still think he's being manipulated. I do think he's being told that whatever love he feels isn't there anymore. And I'm sure that he's being exploited. And I'm sure I mean, gift cards. Right. We saw the list of things that the police had had said that were part of this investigation. Airline gift cards. I mean, the only thing missing is cryptocurrency. I mean, come on. Three hundred fifty dollar three hundred fifty thousand dollar life insurance policy. This guy is soft. This guy doesn't want to have a difficult conversation about where his marriage is. He just wants to leave his family.

He doesn't want to have any consequences associated with that. That's not how life works, but that's what he wants. I don't know why you keep trying to take up for him, claiming that he's the one being manipulated. You know what? The only place I'm getting any straight answers right now is from Bailey Boomhauer, who on a lark was offering advice out along the water. Where were you exactly, Bailey? I was in Pacific Beach, San Diego. Okay. Listen to more of Bailey Boomhauer speaking to who we we believe to be, Borgward.

And I think you'll feel less loss and like things are up in the air. Yeah. Six months later. Yeah. You guys should sort that out. That's the advice? Yes. You need to figure out where you figure out what's going on.

Why is it not possible? Indecision. Okay. Indecision. So because of his indecision, he's led not only his wife and his children, but an entire sheriff's force, divers and dogs on a wild goose chase because he can't decide to stay with his wife and family or leave for some woman he thinks he's going to meet in Uzbekistan. OK, more. I feel like indecision is a decision in itself, because if you're even questioning. Yeah. What was your name?

Twa. Twa? Bailey, nice to meet you. Yeah. Talk to your name? Twa. Twa? Bailey, nice to meet you. Yeah, talk to your wife, sort it out. I think you guys need to know, be on the same page with what's happening. Ladies, when you run into Mr. Indecision, run for the hills as if you had seen a monster. That's my advice. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

You know, Billy Boomhauer, this is amazing that you got this video. Billy Boomhauer, mental health content creator on TikTok, Authentic Alpha on Insta, Authentic Alpha CO. What was your impression of this guy? It was just such a bizarre encounter. Just the whole time he kind of was like I thought maybe he was on something or I really couldn't tell if he was just like joking or if it was real. But then the longer it went on, it just seemed like it was a legitimate, like legitimate thing he was asking. But as you could see, I was kind of confused the whole time because it was just such a bizarre encounter.

I'm at the, I don't know where I am. I'm right here beside Solana Street at the 7-Eleven. Hey, what's going on? I've got my family in the police on the phone. I was sent out earlier this week, and I'm here now. Where are you sending them? Jennifer. I was sent out from Atlanta, Georgia.

I don't know. My parents said it's down the knees. I don't know. And who did this to you? I don't know. My parents said it's been on the knees. I don't know. I don't know. Woman, you were not kidnapped. You faked your own disappearance on the eve of your wedding. Jennifer Wilbanks, known as the runaway bride, Hey, I can't wait to get a hold of Gregory Moore's high-profile lawyer on this.

Do you hear her going, It's just she's really sucking up snot. Let's listen to some more. No. He had on a maroon jacket and I don't know what color shirt under it. Blue jeans. It was a blue van. Like a work van. It wasn't a minivan. It was like a painter work van. What direction did they leave in?

I have no idea. I don't even know where I am. You know, I could just listen to her 911 call all day long. But to Gregory Morse, she goes so far beyond faking her own kidnap, her own fake kidnap. She actually describes the suspects. They're Hispanic, according to her. It was all a hoax, Morse, and she was forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars to reimburse the government for her search. Now, you can't order reimbursement. A judge can't do that unless you're convicted

of something. Now, you were earlier saying this isn't a crime. Well, Nancy, it's not exactly. The big difference here is a person that fakes their own death can't make a false police report and call 911. They're supposed to be dead. And that's what we have here. The example you showed or even the Jesse Smollett case, those people called the police. They committed the crime of filing a false police report. That was able to be charges. But again, here we don't have that. We have a guy who lied to his family, not a nice guy, but not a criminal with regard to that aspect. Maybe a civil lawsuit by the local police,

they can have at it. They'd probably waste more money and legal fees than they would in collecting. But Borgenwort didn't commit a crime here for doing this search. He didn't call the police and create a false report. So you're wrong. There is nothing wrong here. He's no crime for this guy. And probably the joke's on him. What do you mean the joke's on him, Morse? Well, I agree with your doctor. I've been a criminal defense lawyer a long, long time and telltale signs of the victim of a scam. So when he shows up to that beautiful woman, he believes he's going to see in Uzbekistan,

he's going to see an empty place and he's going to have lost all his money. So while it's horrible for the family, this guy is going to probably suffer for his ridiculous decision to leave his family and be, you know. OK, hold on, Greg Remorse. While faking one's death in itself may not be illegal, what if it is part of a fraudulent plan like insurance fraud? Remember the $375,000 policy he took out? I do.

What about that? Well, there's nothing wrong with providing for your family, which sounds good. However, if he caused or knew that someone was going to make the insurance claim, then we start getting into the crime area. It's not a crime to provide for your family, even if you leave them a week later and lie to them about it. There's no crime there unless someone tries to get the insurance money and claims he's deceased. And if the wife tried to do that now, I would venture she's probably criminally liable because there's enough evidence to know this guy's probably alive somewhere. A shocking update in a missing kayaker case. Months after his kayak is found overturned,

authorities suspect Ryan Borgwart may be alive and far from home. Barry Golden joining me, former senior inspector, U.S. Marshal Service, translation they go all over the world, finding fug. Now, owner of Golden Consulting and Investigations at golden-ci.com. Barry, I think Gregory Morse, while I don't like what he's saying, I think a lot of what he is saying is correct. I also agree with him that unlike many other cases where we hear about the U.S. Marshals tracking down killers all around the world, you know, like Caitlin Armstrong, who murdered a pro biker over jealousy, like McLeod, who murdered his girlfriend.

There's so many that are brought back to the U.S. for justice. I don't see the U.S. Marshals spending the money to go halfway around the world with Uzbekistan, with whom we don't have any type of treaty, spending all that money to bring home basically a deadbeat dad who lies to his wife and family and costs probably over $100,000 search efforts. Do you think they'll really look for him? Let me throw this at you, Nancy, okay? You don't think the sheriff's office in Watertown wants to get this guy back on U.S. soil if he is over in Europe? Absolutely, they do. If you look to the right of the sheriff that was standing there at that press conference,

that looks like an FBI agent. So how about this? And I disagree with Greg because you can make this what you want to get this guy back on U.S. soil. If this guy said that his passport was lost and stolen, then he signed a DS-64, which is a passport form that says I lost or my passport was stolen. At the bottom of that form, it says all the information on this form is true and accurate under the penalty of perjury. So he may have committed a federal crime by committing a false statement on a government document. So if that is true, the FBI can get a warrant for his arrest. Now you can get

a provisional arrest warrant and you can get him back from Uzbekistan or wherever he may be in Europe. I think absolutely. Why would the FBI be involved if they don't get this guy back and try to get back some restitution because he cost the sheriff's office thousands and thousands, probably north of $100,000, like you just said. The other thing I- Barry Golden. Oh, wait, go ahead. There's more? Well, I mean, Watertown is 220 miles from the Canadian border, okay? You know they ran his name in Canada. Okay, fake your death 101.

You don't use your real name, all right? You got to be smarter than a fifth grader, okay? So let's start with that. Then he gets to Canada. How did he get to Canada? He didn't take an Uber. It's a $220 train ride to Canada. Did he have help? Does somebody know his dirty little secret that's going to keep it a secret? Who knows? But the fact of the matter, he's in Europe.

He might be in a stand. So I think the sheriff's office working with the FBI, the Office of International Affairs, can get an arrest warrant for making false statements on a government document and get his tail back here to the U.S. I'm sure his wife wants to slap him upside the head and say, what the hell were you thinking? His kids probably went from being sad to being disgusted at this guy. So I think they do whatever they have. They've already spent enough money, thousands and thousands of dollars trying to recover his body that was obviously not there. They're going to get this guy back. You think the sheriff's office is just going to say, ah, he's in Europe.

He's gone. You know, another case. No. Barry Golden, everything you said is amazing and correct. who just happened to talk to this guy on the waterfront and get basically a confession from him. Billy Boomhauer, you can find her on Insta at Authentic Alpha CO. Billy, the last thing any woman needs is Mr. Indecisive. I just want to ask you one more time, what was your sense of this guy? And what do you think about being state's witness number one? I would say the whole interaction seemed very strange. And it seemed like he already kind of had his mind made up about things.

So when he was asking me questions, I feel like he he like visibly did not want to hear what I was saying. He just wanted me to pretty much tell him, like, yes, just go to Uzbekistan and leave your family. And it just seemed also like he just kept smiling to himself. So I feel like he was almost like smug in a way. But I feel like it could have just been like a confession right before he decided to disappear. If you know or think you know anything about the disappearance of husband and father of 920-294-4134. Repeat, 920-294-4134. And when he is dragged back to the U.S., I'm sure his first call is going to be to Gregory Morse, high-profile lawyer joining us today from King Morse. Nancy Grace signing off. Goodbye, friend.

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