Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Woman 'Cute-Meets' Guy at Gas Station, Wannabe CANNIBAL

Episode Date: April 10, 2023

A North Carolina man has been charged after telling police he wanted to mutilate a woman and leave her body in the street. The suspect and his victim met at a gas station. The two exchanged numbers, then Hunter Nance invited the woman to his home. At the home, the woman claims Nance attacked her with a knife. She managed to escape. People in the community called 911, reporting a woman with bloody hands was walking down the road. The victim was able to direct the deputies back to Nance's home. Nance told police he chose the woman at random and wanted to kill her for the thrill.   Nance also said that he planned to “cut her fingers off before killing her in order to eat them in front of her to scare her.” Joining Nancy Grace Today Irv Miller- Criminal Defense Attorney: The Miller Firm, Legal Analyst: CBS2 Chicago WBBM-TV and Legal Technical Advisor to “THE GOOD WIFE” and “THE GOOD FIGHT”: CBS productions Dr. Michelle Joy- Forensic, Clinical, and Academic Psychiatrist; Author: “An Illustrated History of the Insanity Defense;" Twitter:@Westphillymorbidart Chris McDonough -Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, and Host of the YouTube Channel- "The Interview Room" Dr. Priya Banerjee- Board Certified Forensic Pathologist: Anchor Forensic Pathology Consulting; Assistant Medical Examiner, State of Rhode Island Chandler Inions- Crime Reporter at the Salisbury Post See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Dead and aspiring cannibal killer seek to spot a victim at random to effect a thrill kill. That's a lot for one sentence. Cannibalistic killer, victim at random, thrill kill. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. How do all of those words fit into one sentence? Well, you can ask residents of a small city in North Carolina called China Grove. But let's start where every crime investigation starts with a 911 call. Listen. Marine County 911, what's the location of your emergency?

Peaceful Lane in China Grove. Okay, was there an address on Peaceful Lane or a block range? Well, the street, and she's bleeding. She flagged me down and said that her boyfriend had cut her, and her hands were all bloody, and she needed a ride back to the Circle K. I didn't do it, but I thought you guys might want to know what's going on. Okay, and what was your name? And your phone number, sir. back to the Circle K. I didn't do it, but I thought you guys might want to know what's going on. Okay. And what was your name?

And your phone number, sir? Ray, too. Is she still there with you now? No, I told her I needed to get home, and she kept walking. But she was crying, and her hands were bloody. She said her boyfriend stabbed her or cut her or something. That's not exactly what happened. Joining me, Chandler Inions, crime reporter, Salisbury Post, and you can find him at thesalisburypost.com.

Chandler, is the 911 caller's voice distorted in some way? Yes, it does appear that way. Was he afraid and using a voice distorter it sounds like i mean my son has one and you talk into it and you can't even tell it's him why would he just distort his voice well any indication of that remains unclear at this time um could just be that he was concerned for his identity's sake. Could have been, could have been, but you do agree with me. It does sound distorted. I certainly would, yes.

Okay, right there. I smell a rat, but I don't know that yet. Let's listen to more of the 911 call. Just as a woman is bleeding, gushing blood, walking down the side of the road, and she's afraid to get into a car. Wow, I wonder why. Listen to the 911. and trying to see if she's still going that way or if somebody gave her a ride. What was she wearing? She's flagging somebody else down. It looks like she's got on a black shirt.

I can see her from here, really, and I'm terrible with that kind of stuff. I should have looked at what she had on. I'm sorry. Did she say where she lived or where her boyfriend was? She did not. She just said she needed to go back to Circle K to get her car. That's all she said to me. Would you say the bleeding was serious?

That's all the reason I was calling. Huh? Would you say the bleeding was serious? It was, yeah, her old hand was bloody. It looked like she just got in somebody's car. She got in a white car and they're going towards the end of Goodman Road, towards where Brown Road is. And she just got in a white car and they're going where? Going up Goodman toward Brown Road. Okay, guys, again, that voice is totally distorted. Let me go to Chris McDonough joining me. Director of the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, handled nearly 500 homicides.

I found him on his YouTube channel, The Interview Room. He's at coldcasefoundation.org. Chris, have you heard the old phrase that Shakespeare wrote, Right here in the 911 call, you've got the guy who seems as if he's distorting his voice.

Also says, I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I just, it i just you know i see a woman that's gushing blood and i thought i'd call when somebody calls 911 says i didn't do it nobody asked that raves that waves another red flag at me totally agree nancy i mean tmi right too much information when not even asked and and he's also got, he's almost like distancing himself from this victim. You do have to question, you know,

there's more behind the curtain here. I think that 911 call is just kind of the tip of the iceberg I would think about just now. Listening to it, that's the first time I've heard it. Yeah, I mean, there's just so much, I mean, there's just so much wrong.

I mean, I don't want to discourage anyone from calling 911, but when you're distorting your voice or it sounds like he's distorting his voice and he, you know, let's go to Irv Miller. He's a high profile criminal defense attorney with the Miller firm and advisor to the good wife

and the good fight at CBS. Wow, you're busy, Irv. Irv, question. I mean, you've heard 911 calls played over and over and over in courtrooms. I would love to kick a case off with a 911 call. But we also analyze every word and maybe wrongfully. Well, if I could put my old prosecutor's hat on again and get away from what I'm currently doing. What struck me in that call that raised my red flag is that she said that her boyfriend did this to her.

And that does not fit with the narrative of the story. Interesting. See, I'm going to pick a bone. Got a bone to pick with you on that one. Boyfriend and hands gushing with blood. those two really don't fit together for me. But let's figure out where did this happen. Take a listen to WBT. Let's show you where these crimes allegedly took place.

Deputies say that a woman told them she was attacked at a home on Peaceful Lane in the town of China Grove. She said they had met earlier in the day and they had exchanged numbers. The woman claims that when they met up, he attacked her with a knife. The woman told deputies she was able to escape, and folks in the community called 911 when they saw her down the road after she had been hurt. Deputies say he chose the woman randomly and wanted to kill her for the thrill. Okay, Chandler Innes joining me from the Salisbury Post. Chandler, wait, maybe I've got everything wrong. Tell me about China Grove, North Carolina.

So China Grove is a quiet, quaint little town in Piedmont region of North Carolina. Its proximity to Charlotte and the Triad region make it an appealing place for people to live, reside, raise a family. It's not very far. I mean, you can be in either of those big cities within about 45 minutes. It's close to the interstate, but it's got several families that have lived there a long time, some more than established names that are there, a couple of middle schools, a couple of elementary schools, a couple of high schools, and it's certainly on the up and up because of that proximity to the interstate there's been significant injection of well light industrial manufacturing distribution centers that are coming and more and more housing to come and those workers got to live somewhere and so

what had largely been a bedroom community is emerging a little bit more on the scene. It's got a brewery that opened up recently. There's a little bit of a downtown area that's kind of reemerging. But it is still a pretty quiet town. I do cover China Grove. It's on one of my beats. And oftentimes when I'm driving back after, let's say, a town council meeting, the only store that's still open after nine o'clock is a 24 hour laundromat. So it is a it is a quiet town.

It reminds me of where I grew up outside the city limits of Macon, a good ways outside an unincorporated Bibb County. The only thing near us and it was was a height, was the corner store. And my mom put a boycott on that when they started selling beer. So we really had nowhere to go. But long story short is I understand the last census was about in 2020, and there were less than 5,000 people living there? That's correct. About 4,500, something in that ballpark. And a lot of that is not very densely populated or concentrated in any one area.

It's kind of spread out. People have their own homes that are kind of, it's a pretty rural area. It's North Carolina. Is there a big lake there? There certainly is. It's Lake Courier. And there's a wilderness park that surrounds that. Great hiking trails it's become a little bit of a destination for hobbyists that like like to eat a fish canoe or or just spend time outside the reason i'm getting to all of this um chris mcdonough is

because when you have a woman running down the side of the road, and I say road, not street, because it seems very rural, not like a tree-lined street with houses in a subdivision, bleeding profusely from her hands, out really in the middle of nowhere, that is very, very odd as it relates to statistics. Yes, 100%. In fact, it's right out of the scene of a horror movie, right? Where you envision this poor victim running down the street, holding her hand, and you now tie in the 911 call, Nancy, call nancy to the red flag that you know we're both thinking about here and and others on this panel it's like what's going on here there's there's much more to this story right now where even the 9-1-1 caller is just kind of abandoning her uh in the middle of the road to continue on this journey down this dark street, bleeding.

But, you know, I got the sense she would not get into the car with him. That's the feel that I got. But, hey, Jack, let's hear WBT one more time. Let's show you where these crimes allegedly took place. Deputies say that a woman told them she was attacked at a home on Peaceful Lane in the town of China Grove. She said they had met earlier in the town of China Grove. She said they had met earlier in the day and they had exchanged numbers.

The woman claims that when they met up, he attacked her with a knife. The woman told deputies she was able to escape, and folks in the community called 911 when they saw her down the road after she had been hurt. Deputies say he chose the woman randomly and wanted to kill her for the thrill. Little did she know that police now believe she was intended to be a victim of cannibalism. Take a listen to more from Nikki Houser. This is where they met and it's just about five minutes that way. That's the neighborhood police say this knife attack allegedly happened. But it's what this man didn't do that might be the most disturbing part it could give you chills down your spine it's unbelievable to hear the gruesome plans i think everybody's shocked the roman county sheriff's office says after meeting a woman and exchanging phone numbers at a nearby circle k Wednesday, he invited her here to his home on Peaceful Lane in China Grove.

Back to Chandler Inions, crime reporter for the Salisbury Post. Again, thank you, Chandler, for joining us. So, they met originally at a Circle K? Yes, they met at a gas station earlier in the day. Okay, now wait a minute, Chandler. I know you're the expert when it comes to China Grove, but to call a Circle K a gas station is like calling Tiffany's a department store.

Okay, now wait a minute. When you go on a Circle K, I don't know if your Circle K is like this, but every Circle K I've ever been in, I want to go there if I'm on a long trip. They have coffee. They have food. I mean food that you would eat, not weird food, plastic wrap that's been there like a month. They have real food. It smells good in there.

You shop for things in there. What kind of Circle K are we talking about? I mean, it's certainly not a particularly lavish gas station, but yes, you can get something that I would probably eat in there myself, you know. They have a little grill.

But yeah, I think, I do believe that it's still appropriate to refer to it as a gas station. It's not like a travel stop. I would never have thought of eating the food at a truck stop like a gas station. It's not like a travel stop. I would never have thought of eating the food at a

truck stop like a gas station until my son, I was taking him to see something. Oh, we were going to Okefenokee, the swamp. Good times. And I got gas and I went in. John Dave was already eating something. He had taken it out of the container. I said, don't

eat that! Turned out to be pretty good. We all ate it. But long story short, they met at a Circle K, exchanged numbers. Chandler Indians, do I have that part right? Yes. Now, the reason why they exchanged those numbers was unclear other than just perhaps to potentially meet back up again later. So they meet at a Circle K. They exchange numbers, obviously, to get together for a date. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace You know, Dr. Michelle Joy is with me, forensic clinical and academic psychiatrist,

author of An Illustrated History of the Insanity Defense, and you can find her at West Philly Morbid Art. Dr. Joy, thank you for being with us. So many questions to you, but first of all, many people believe, just assume, that cannibalism means insanity. That's not true. Not at all, not at all. I wonder if that's what the disalleged perpetrator thinks as well, but you know, depending uh where the crime has taken place and where it's being tried there's different definitions of you know what would meet the standard for a not guilty by reason of insanity defense um we're talking in the legal

sense but basically it's not just bizarre behavior it's not behavior that we wouldn't understand it's not behavior that we don't do it would be something related to a mental illness, not just being weird or a criminal or, you know, wanting to eat people, I suppose, but also that they didn't know that it was wrong in most jurisdictions. You know, there's kind of nuances to that. But something so striking might be shocking to, you know, our sensibilities, but it definitely doesn't mean uh insane um on its face guys uh we'll never forget hannibal lecter in silence of the lambs but the reality is that hannibal lecter was based on a real person um actually that is where the inspiration came from to create the character that ended up being the movie, the hit movie with Jodie Foster. And, of course, with Hopkins playing Hannibal Lecter. That is the only familiarity many people have with even the suggestion of cannibalism.

But as you see, even in the movie, Lecter is the smartest one in the room. He's not insane. He knew exactly what he was doing as he would select his victims, murder them, and eat them. It's like a spider with a fly. So to say that it is an outright insanity is absolutely not true. Dr. Priya Banninger joining us, board certified forensic pathologist at Anchor Forensic Pathology Consultant and she's assistant medical examiner. Dr. Priya, thank you for being with us. Dr. Priya, the danger of slicing someone's hands is it's incredibly close to the veins on your wrist, which that's how you bleed out if you cut those veins. So, you know, the big thing that I think about is she's trying to protect herself, right? So oftentimes injuries to the hands are defensive.

So I hate to say it. Luckily, it was only her hands that were injured. Yeah, you know, you're right. But she's gushing blood. She's bleeding intensely, Dr. Priya Banerjee. How would that have happened? I mean, when I cut my hand, you know, in the kitchen, I don't bleed intensely. She is. No, I mean, depending on where on her hand she's hit, you could hit a major blood vessel or vessels, artery vein. And, you know, during the stress, her heart's pumping fast and, you know, you're losing tons of blood. Obviously, she's freaking out, running down the road, you know, in total distress. Guys with me, Chandler Indians, crime reporter, Salisbury Post. So what we learn immediately is the woman describing gruesome plans that the attacker had for her. Guys, take a listen to WSOC.

Tonight, we are hearing the 911 calls that were made after a Rowan County deputy says a woman escaped from a man who was trying to kill her. She bled and she flagged me down and said who was trying to kill her. She's bleeding. She flagged me down and said that her boyfriend had cut her and her hands were all bloody and she needed a ride. I told her I needed to get home and she kept walking, but she was crying and her hands were bloody. The woman had just escaped from China Grove. A man wanted to, quote, kill her for the thrill of it.

Details in this case are very disturbing. It happened right along this roadway which is actually called Peaceful Lane but it was anything but peaceful on Wednesday. I looked her out of my rearview mirror and I was she doesn't look good. This woman was driving down Peaceful Lane on Wednesday when she says she saw a young woman walking quickly with bloody hands. I said, are you okay? And she was shaking and crying. And she was like, the guy in the house down there just stabbed me. I want to go back to Dr. Michelle Joy,

clinical forensic academic psychiatrist and author. Dr. Joy, just meeting someone at a Circle K or anywhere in the grocery store. You need to know a little bit more about them before you meet them in person, Dr. Joy. To make a safe recommendation to friends or family, that's definitely what I would be saying for sure. I mean, there's just something so, like when I hear and read about this case, you know, the peaceful lane, this quaint little place that the other expert, the crime reporter was describing, meeting at a Circle K. And then that juxtaposed with the intensity of what this person is claiming to want to do or allegedly had said. I mean, this whole thing is just, oh, a little quaint meeting at a Circle K

turns into this bombardment of blood and thrill kill and cannibalism. And it's just striking the juxtaposition between those two things. I know. In the movies, they call it the meet cute. You know, if you look back at all the rom-coms, there's always this cute meeting set up, like they meet over the gas pump at the circle k or over the donuts or the coffee machine that chandler unions was describing and then somehow the word cannibal gets into it guys take a listen to hannah gets wsoc very clear to them what would have happened had she not escaped he wanted to kill her for thrill and described gory details of wanting to mutilate her body

and leave it for passing cars to see. He also mentioned cannibalism and a desire to kill other people. I was in shock. You know, I see him on the road, driving down the road here and stuff, but, you know, you'll just wave and he'll wave back at you.

People who have lived by his parents for 20 years tell me this is not something you expect from a quiet neighborhood filled with young kids okay to chandler indians joining us from the salisbury post who's intimately familiar with china grove and in fact this very street so wait a minute she the victim who we are not naming what leads the police back to the home where she was attacked yes that's correct she told them where they where they could find them and they go to that home and do they find the perp they do they found the man and they took him into custody who is this guy guy? Well, he's local. He went to school right around the corner and, you know, wasn't too old. 24-year-old Hunter Chase Nance. You're making him sound like, I don't know, Goober and Mayberry.

It just works at the gas station right around the corner. He's an aspiring cannibal. What more can you tell me? What happened that night? So the details that surfaced during the interview with detectives are where things really took the sinister turn. It was then when he started to, as if they weren't already nefarious enough, his intentions revealed themselves in his interactions with the victim.

But it was when he actually got downtown, so to speak, that he started unveiling his larger plan. That's why we have the Fifth Amendment. Irv Miller, wouldn't you agree with that? Right to remain silent? Oh, absolutely. I mean, because Irv, you as a veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, could have bent this case and twisted it and molded it into whatever you wanted it to be. If he, Nance, had not started talking, it could have been a domestic. They got out of control and blah, blah, blah, spin it out. But he opened his mouth and he stepped in. Let me just say poop. I'll just put it like that. If I may actually add something.

Do. Yes. Originally, he was only charged with false imprisonment and assault with a deadly weapon. The attempted murder charges did not come until a little bit later whenever this new information that he volunteered was revealed. Until he opened his pie hole. Wow. Yeah. You're right.

I wanted to jump in, Nancy. This is Dr. Banerjee. You know, I've dealt with so many domestic cases that end up horribly, and I'm glad this isn't one of them. But really, I've practiced in large metropolitan areas, Philly, Baltimore, now in Rhode Island. And I also practice in Vegas. What the heck? Like, this is some quaint little town, you know, it's totally opposite of what you think in terms of just horrible crimes, right? Like, I would never talk to someone in a large city at a gas station,

but it seems like so normal in a small town. And look what it leads to. It's horrifying. And you hear what Chandandler inions is telling us with the salisbury post yeah he was a young man went to school right around the corner what yeah he wants to chop people up and eat them inions he's not just some guy that go to school around the corner h-e-l-l-n-o let's listen to more WSOC Listen. Investigators say that guy was 24-year-old Hunter Nance, who lives nearby. While trying to help the young woman, she says a car pulled up behind them from the direction of Nance's house on the dead-end street. We saw a vehicle pulling up, and it stopped.

And we saw the headlights, and she said, I think that's him. So I said to her, get in the car. Just get in the car. She says she drove the young woman to a Circle K where they saw police in the parking lot. And that's when disturbing details started to emerge. Okay, I was dragging Inyan along. All right, Chandler Inyan, what does she say happened to her that night? Tell me that first. You know it better than anybody. And then tell me what this guy, 24-year-old Nance, had to say when he got, as you said, down, down.

First, tell me her story. Well, yes. Her story was that the seemingly innocuous meet-up. It's called a meet-cute. Yes, precisely. It only turned so sinister when they got to his, per her account, when they got to his home. Wait, does he live at home with his parents?

Yes. And they had no idea he was planning to butcher a woman, what, downstairs in the basement or his bedroom? Well, and as he would reveal a little bit later, that he had some plans for them too what what what what what his parents were also on on on a list of folks that he allegedly intended to to kill after after he was done with with his first one you know i knew you were smart the first time i heard your voice chandler unions i didn't know that i thought he

just wanted to chop this woman up and eat her for dinner. I had no idea. He had plans for his mother and father. He also had plans for some, in kind of the typical fashion, those folks that had bullied him and given him a hard time in high school. So it wasn't just the parents either. He had a little bit of a list. I wouldn't want to call it a manifesto like we hear sometimes,

lobbed out there. But there was a series of people sounds more like a buffet you got the girl you got i'll call her girlfriend but she was not they just met at random then his parents then everybody that bullied him i'm looking at him right now pale white guy let me guess loner that lives with his parents okay you know what uh i'm looking this looks can be so deceiving, Chandler Indians. If you look, wait a minute, does the street, is it actually on Tranquil or is it on Peaceful Lane? It is on Peaceful Lane. Because there's another street named Tranquil. What is this place? Okay, I'm looking at the photo of the parents' home. It's a really nice place.

I mean, looks are so deceiving, Dr. Michelle Joy. Certainly, certainly. I mean, you know, it's when you least expect and what you don't expect that we see in these kind of cases. I also wonder just kind of with what Chandler was saying and this whole narrative, one of the things that comes to mind for me, even though it isn't a manifesto or it's not, you know, the typical narrative that we see with some of the shootings and everything with being bullied in that sense. But this seemed to be related to not just payback and revenge, but there was like an

attention-seeking element to this in the sense not only of what his plans, he says, were, but how he literally spilled the beans on himself, right? It's like he really wanted people to know about this. And you kind of put that in the context of this person that was probably, you know, quiet with the list, bullied, unassuming. And it's just this whole counterreaction that wants this huge, dramatic, you know, cannibalistic, multiple killings. And not just does he apparently desire this

so much so that he can't keep it to himself with the interviews with law enforcement. Chandler Indians, back to you. And hey guys, the rest of you on the panel, remember this isn't high tea at Windsor Castle with King Charles and Camilla. Jump in people. Chandler Indians.

So let me understand. Nance approaches the woman at a local gas station. And they exchange phone numbers. He obviously calls her. They get together. He invites her over to his home, aka his parents' place where I guess he lives in the basement. Right there, she should have run screaming for the hills as if she had seen a monster. But that said, they get together.

He offers to pick the woman up. He brings her back to his home. And then, you were right in the middle, Chandler, before I so rudely interrupted you. She got a bad feeling when he locked the door. Pick it up right there, Chandler. I want to hear every detail. Sure. It's at that time that he's accused of going for a steak knife from the

kitchen that he uses or allegedly uses as the instrument in this harrowing episode. This young woman, she is able to defend herself in such a way that she's able to get the knife away from him. And then she's able to get out of the house we have a uncertain timetable for exactly how long this happened or how long this took but you can imagine it must have been pretty quick because i cannot for the life of me imagine that she stuck around too long the moment she saw an opportunity to get out if i heard that door lock that's when he had seen nothing but elbow and tail hole of me running. That's what he'd see. But the door was locked. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

So apparently Chandler Indian, I'm understanding she fights back. He locks the door and attacks her with a knife. She fights back. She cuts her own hands in the process and she manages to get out and run. And that's where she runs into the guy who distorts his voice or so it sounds. Do I have that right? Yeah, so all indications point to the wounds that she sustained having been inflicted upon her while she was trying to wrangle the knife away. Aha, got it. So they were fighting to get the knife away.

Then you tell me, Chandler Indians, that's when we learn about his desire to murder people and eat them. Take a listen to WBT. Deputies say that Nance told them he wanted to mutilate her and leave her body out for cars to see. Deputies also claim that Nance expressed an interest in killing others as well as cannibalism. Nance has been charged with false imprisonment, assault with a deadly weapon, and first-degree kidnapping. He's currently in jail under a $600,000 bond. And more.

It's what Nance told deputies after the fact that's even more bone-chilling. Deputies say in the interviews with Nance, he said he chose the woman randomly and wanted to kill her, quote, for the thrill of it. He also told deputies he wanted to mutilate her and kill other people. They said Nance also expressed an interest in cannibalism. Honestly, I've had thoughts go across my mind.

What if he had tried to break in my house and get one of my daughters? And that's terrible that I even have that thought. I wish I hadn't. But that is the reality of it right now. This is hearkening us all back to the case of Brian Koberger. Koberger charged in the, we now believe, thrill kills of four young University of Idaho students. I want to go back to Dr. Joy. Dr. Michelle Joy joining us.

What is a thrill kill, number one? I guess I'm not sure if there's any precise definition that's used in a legal context or anything like that, but the way he's making it sound and the way I would tend to think of it is something for the pure, quote, pleasure of it, the excitement that there's something hedonistic about it, which, you know, is even amping it up a level with the cannibalism aspect of how many different kinds of pleasure is this person expecting to weirdly and sickly get from, you know, the pain and

suffering of another person or people. So we'll just start there, that it's somehow exciting and pleasurable for him to think about and perhaps undertake these actions. And Dr. Jory, what about cannibalism? What leads someone to become a cannibal? I don't know that we have great research on that or, you know, many controlled studies or anything of that nature. But in a sense, I think of it like a like an odd um you know we think of fetishes or paraphilias like some kind of obsession um in that sense that i mean in that last case with the co-worker you know he he spoke about um or other people said that he basically wouldn't even eat uh uh pots uh pans dishes that had touched other kinds of meat because he was so afraid that he would

become addicted to the taste of flesh and become a cannibal. And so he avoided it in that sense. It just seems in that case and in some others that we've looked at over in the news and everything, as well as movies, it seems like it's an obsession. I don't know if it comes from watching movies, gets this idea in the head or something, but it's definitely not something that we know of enough people to study and have a good sense of really where this is coming. You know, I'm thinking this through. Chris McDonough, who has been working on the Brian Koberger case, the aspect of a thrill kill.

Guys, take a listen to our cut 17 from our friend Phil. I don't think this investigation is going to continue. Definitely. I think Jonathan's right. We're going to presumably find the knife. The FBI is involved. They are the strong, I think the most aggressive investigators,

bar none. If he's the guy, you think this was his first murder? Murder? Possibly. Bad act? No. I think he's killed before, most likely. In the same fashion?

Probably so. Not four people, but I think he's probably stalked and potentially killed females before. If he's the killer, this viciousness, the brutality, and the butchering of these four individuals, I can't imagine this is the first time. And we have the case of Aiden Fucci. Take a listen to our cut 19 from our friend Les Trent. As you will recall, this young killer picked out someone at random,

a gorgeous young teen girl, because he wanted to see what it was, quote, like to kill. Listen. During his police interrogation, Fucci's parents scolded him for posting on social media. Tristan's body was discovered in a secluded wooded area. She had been stabbed 114 times. Fucci pleaded guilty to first-degree murder. Fucci presented this handwritten apology.

I'm sorry for all the pain I caused the Bailey family. I know my apology will not fix anything or bring her back. That didn't sway the judge, who sentenced Fucci to the maximum penalty allowable under Florida law. There is only one appropriate sentence in this case. I sentence you to life in prison. Back to Chris McDonough, guys, a homicide detective and star of the interview room on YouTube. Chris McDonough, a thrill kill.

And your experience having handled so many homicides what is it and how would you describe someone who is interested in cannibalism one name comes to mind almost immediately as jeffrey dahmer he had hedonistic as the doctor mentioned tendencies towards you know cannibalism and that type of stuff and the majority of these guys for the thrill kill, if we use Brian, you know, BK, Brian Corburger, for an example, Nancy, and when we talk about this guy's development here, it sounds like this was a, at first it starts out with an organized, you know, attempt to get this victim back to this, you know, place of control.

And then from there, it kind of goes sideways for the suspect in this particular case that we're talking about. And because that is the main point this individual is trying to get to is typically their mission or driven, they have a purpose right off the bat to control these victims rather quickly. And that can be driven from a deep seated problem. And the doctor can elaborate on this 10,000 times better than I of seeking revenge, you know, potentially eliminating a specific type of personality that they feel, you know know that they need to get rid of

and korbach brian korberger falls into that category uh and i think as we get closer to his trial nancy you and i both sense and you've dealt with these guys for years that a lot is going to come out about their dysfunctionality in relationship to their ability to relate on a general level just to the general public and people around him. This guy is going to be a weirdo. People are going to call him a weirdo. To Chandler Indians, I agree with everything Chris McDonough just said. So he claims that he was the perp, the alleged perp in this case, claims he was bullied in high school. He lives with his parents.

Does he have a job? Did he go to college? What more do we know about him? And is it true he said he wanted to mutilate the victim and leave her on display for people to pass by on the road? found out after we ran the story the facebook comments started pouring in from from co-workers that had said that they always knew something was wrong or he had given them very uh off-putting vibes you know when they when they would work together at a at a business not not not far from china grove so he would creep everybody out sounds just like coberger and is it true he told detectives he wanted to physically mutilate her and put her on display for people to see?

So that was one element of it. The other element as it pertains to the cannibalism, it almost seems as though it was as much perhaps a fetish of his as it was a scare attack. That would play back into the control element of it. He specifically said, or is alleged to have said, that he wanted to cut her fingers off and eat them in front of her while she was still alive. Which to me would indicate trying to scare the heck out of her. Okay. I hardly know where to go with that. Dr. Joy, cut her fingers off and eat them in front of her while she's still alive? I mean, there's a saying that comes to mind, you know, throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.

In a sense, he's like spouting all these things out. I want to be a cannibal. I want to mutilate. I want to, you know, leave her out for people to see. I want her to see me eating her fingers. There's just so much going on. It's a little bit hard to wade through. But what, what comes to mind for me, similarly to the last speaker, is there something, you know, this is intended to be intense, whether that was truly something that he desired to do in front of her, or that's what the narrative that he's, you know, displaying now,

he, that's, I think, harkens back to that idea of, like, revenge and fear. There's, he wants to send a message, right, even saying, leave the body out for people to see in the road. Like, there is a message that he's trying to send, and, you know, the corollary to that message is that he's a very weird and twisted individual, but I think, you know, that's just so extreme and so bizarre that I have to agree. It either has to be about scaring the bejesus out of her herself or just all of us and our, you know, perception of him. And now, you know, is there a fame-seeking element, a kind of, you know, a notoriety element to this as well?

So I wanted to comment. Jump in, please in please yeah so this is dr banner g so i wanted to say i've done quite a few dismemberment cases and you have to look at this as obviously very deranged in the sense that normally dismemberment is done to like hide the body after the person's killed but actually actually cutting off fingers and eating them. And it's attention seeking. It's not a hiding phenomenon. And the other thing is any sharp force, like sharp injury, like a stabbing, slashing, that's

very personal. So he wants to not only be involved, but also look at me. You know, it's not subtle at all. Irv Miller, I guess there's only one place to go now that the client has said all of this, and that's the insanity defense. Well, let me jump in to follow up on what your detective said. He brought up the name of Jeffrey Dahmer,

who basically lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in a nice, quiet neighborhood, a loner. And he was eventually convicted of killing 15 boys, not just killing them, but dismembering them, saving body parts, including organs, hearts, genitals, cutting their heads off. And what he did with them when he was done eating parts of them, he would save those parts in the refrigerator so he could eat them on a future occasion. And talk about the insanity defense.

Well, he took a shot at the act, but he unfortunately made a statement that's reported after his arrest that said, officers, thank you for arresting me because that's the only way I was going to stop doing this. Bad insanity defense went nowhere. Chandler Inion's joining me, investigative crime reporter at the Salisbury Post. Where does the case stand now?

Well, it's in the court process. With the upgraded charges to attempted murder, he's now looking at significantly more time. The last hearing that they had was a for-cause hearing, and that certainly got all that evidence of that information that came out there. But as these things do, they're expected to take some time. I guess so. I expect that Hunter Chase Nance is going to have a nice long stay at a mental diagnostic facility for the state before he's declared sane and competent to stand trial. So no more meet-cutes at the gas station and going to someone's home, someone you don't even know. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.