Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Woman home alone stabbed, sex assaulted, left in bathtub of water. Who murdered Socialite Kay Thomasson?

Episode Date: August 23, 2019

Atlanta socialite Kay Thomasson is brutally stabbed in the neck in her own home. Her murder remains unsolved after nearly a year. With Nancy Grace today putting together the details is Former Assistant District Attorney Darryl Cohen. Medical examiner Dr. Tim Gallagher, Crime Scene Analyst Laura Pettler and Crime Online reporter John Lemley. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. We just found her. We just came. I don't know how long she's been in the back of the club. Is she awake? No, she's not awake. She's dead. Do you think someone murdered her? There is blood all over the place. There's sharp changes. There's broken hair, broken clothes. Someone broke into this house. What happened to Kay Thomason?

What happened to Kay Thomason? What happened to Kay Thomason? The question still lingers. Months have passed, and the case remains unsolved. Brutally murdered in her own home. I visited the crime scene, and from the outside looking in, it looks like a postcard. A beautiful two-storied home with a giant lighting fixture hanging down in the middle. A perfectly kept front and backyard. Beautiful furnishings in the home. In the back, you see a dish for the pet, the family pet. Everything's perfect, except for the dead body. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. With me, an all-star panel,

Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor, now renowned defense attorney in the Atlanta jurisdiction, well-known medical examiner for the state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher. Joining me, Laura Petler, crime scene analyst and PI, private investigator right now. To CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, John Limley, start at the beginning. Nancy, Kate Thomason had lived in the Derby Hills subdivision since before Sandy Springs was even a city up until 2005-2006. The community was just an unincorporated part of Atlanta's Fulton County. Kay's house sits up on a ridge overlooking a cul-de-sac. It's at the very end of a long wooded street named Old Woodbine Road. Derby Hills is in an upscale, older neighborhood, one that's highly sought after, especially by young families. It's a beautiful area,

but it's also surrounded by some really great schools. Kay lived alone, not just in the house, but in the city for the most part. She did have some family members, but her children and her ex-husband lived out of town. Living alone, though, was not something that seemed to bother Kay one bit. For one thing, she was constantly busy with lots of volunteer work. She worked in her garden. In fact, it was one of those family members in town that became concerned when they heard that Kay had not made it to an appointment that day. This is June 27th. Kay was one of those people, one of those dependable people that never missed an event, a meeting, an appointment, anything that was on her calendar. Take a listen to our friend Joe Hinckley at 11 Alive. A relative

came to check on Kay Thomason yesterday evening after she missed an appointment and that's when she was found dead inside of her home on the top of this hill. This afternoon, nearly 24 hours after the investigation began, Sandy Springs Police could be seen removing evidence from the scene of the homicide. 71-year-old Kay Thomason was killed inside her home. We're looking into phone records, we're talking to neighbors, and we're talking to family members as well. Sergeant Samuel Warsham with the Sandy Springs Police Department said a relative found Thomason around 7 Wednesday night, and the medical examiner is still determining how she died. Her family told police Thomason's black 2012 Kia Sorento with Georgia Tech PWU 1162 was missing when they found her. Is that the key to Kay's murder in her own home?

In a very, very quiet, upscale neighborhood, nobody heard a thing? Take a listen to Sergeant Sam Worsham, the PIO at Sandy Springs PD. Around 7 p.m. last night, we were notified of a homicide here on Old Woodbine Road. Our officers responded to the location. They were able to locate the victim, Ms. Kay Thomason, in her home. At this time, we are looking for her vehicle. It's missing from the location. It's a 2012 Kia Sorento. It's black in color. It has Georgia tag PWU1162. If anyone has any information about the location of this vehicle, please call Sandy Springs Police or you can call Crime Stoppers as well.

Right now, we are offering a $10,000 reward for the arrest and conviction of anyone involved in this crime. If anyone has information, please call Sandy Springs Police immediately. Who notified the police department? A family member. The victim missed an appointment. A family member came to check and located the victim at the home, and she called 911. How long had she been laying there? What effect will that have on her autopsy? Straight out to medical examiner for the state of Florida, Dr. Tim Gallagher. Dr. Gallagher, it's a real honor to have you with us. When hours tick by, how does that affect the accuracy of the autopsy and the ability to determine COD cause of death? The time that passes by does affect some of the evidence that you may be able to collect from the

body. For instance, DNA evidence will start to degrade. Trace evidence will start to disappear. Hair and fibers start to become lost. But actually finding the cause of death during the autopsy isn't really affected by time as much as people would like to think. Stab wounds will always be there. Bullet wounds will always be there. And they could be found within the bone and within the tissue that is left to decompose. You know, I'm thinking about this woman, Kay Thomason, and if you could just see how perfectly she kept her home. Now, one thing I noticed when I was looking at the crime scene was that you go up as John Lumley with Crime Online was reporting a very gradual slope up to her home. The driveway to the home is on the right. And between you've got the home to the right, the driveway, then an expanse of lawn.

Then you have a, not ramshackle, but an old wooden fence. It's about five to six feet tall, and it's overgrown with foliage. On the other side of that fence, woods, forest. Then after you go down through the forest, through the woods, you come out on a very, very busy street, Peachtree-Dunwoody Road. And the reason it's so busy is that on one end, you have the biggest shopping centers and the most expensive shopping malls in the state of Georgia, Lenox and Phipps and a lot of high-end restaurants. And then to the right, you go over a hill, and there are some of the most prestigious hospitals in the state of Georgia. You've got Scottish Rite Children's Hospital, Northside Hospital, St. Joseph's Hospital. So that particular run of street is highly traveled.

Anybody that knew to go through those woods and get to that fence could get straight in her home, and her home was the first house you get to. To Daryl Cohen, a former prosecutor turned defense attorney, Daryl, as a prosecutor, you and I worked in the same office. You know every inch of Fulton County like the back of your hand. Because when you are looking at crack, everywhere I go, the children now say it. They go, oh, I bet you prosecuted a murder in here. They go, I go, yes, I did. You know, it could be mansions. It could be a crack house. It could be a regular tree-lined neighborhood. It could be an apartment complex. If you're a prosecutor, you've been there because

you go to the crime scene, you look at it yourself to analyze it before trial. So I'm sure you know exactly where this is. It's a very expensive enclave going down Peachtree-Dunwoody toward the hospitals just around the Windsor Parkway intersection. You know what I'm talking about? That ain't shabby, Daryl. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a typical residential neighborhood that this sort of crime does not happen. But unfortunately, it did. And it's something very close to the hospitals you mentioned. We call them Pill Hill because of all the hospitals that are there and the very high rent neighborhood where people just don't see this sort of crime happen never happens but then it did crime stories with nancy grace Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This morning we have a brief update on the investigation into the homicide that occurred on Woodbine Road a little over a week ago here in Sandy Springs. We also have some information that the family would like to share this morning with the public. So this morning, the Sandy Springs Police Department would like to announce that the reward

in this case is now at $100,000. And we hope that that $100,000 reward will give us a little more interest in the case and provide someone with some more incentive to give more leads on this case for investigators to follow up. Good morning, my name is Keith Sagan. Still, the case remains unsolved. Let's take a listen to the 911 call, and earlier, Sandy Springs Deputy Chief of Police, Keith Sagan, the reward now raised to $100,000, but still no takers? To Laura Petler, crime scene analyst and private eye, Laura, that's very unusual for a reward to climb to $100,000 and no takers.

It is, Nancy. And the situation with this particular case is that the offender is going to be a person who could possibly brag about this type of an offense. But he also, if he's more on the anger side of the house of these kind of murders, he won't brag about it, and therefore he's keeping it secret, and he's not telling people what he did, and therefore, you know, it could be a smaller pool of people who would come forward. The other issue is that a lot of times these type of offenders have a tremendous amount of domestic violence and assault against women history in their past. And if that's the case, he could be scaring other

women with this horror story. And if that's what's happening, they're not going to come forward and tell what they know about him. To John Limley, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, tell me about the actual murder. What happened to Kay? A lot of what we have learned and investigators have learned begins with this eerie surveillance video. It was a few hours into the recording from the hours before her body was discovered by her family members, investigators had sat there and combed through the video and they were beginning to think they weren't going to see anything. Then with a timestamp in the early wee hours of the morning, they began to see a little flutter over to the left side of the driveway. There's a camera of Kay's surveillance system pointed down that long driveway. And over to the left, in the shadow of a tree, you can begin to see a little bit of a flutter. Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

John, let me understand this. Where is the surveillance camera on the home? I think I recall seeing it. It is actually right on the front of the house pointed down the driveway. So when you're on the street looking at the house, is it on the left or the right? It's really slightly to the right, but really right dead center in the home. Okay, so as it is looking, now we're, let's pretend, on the front steps of the home. Okay, we're no longer looking at the home. We're on the front steps looking out away from the home. The man comes from where? As you're looking down

that driveway, he comes from the left side of the driveway out of the woods. Straight out of those woods where that fence is. And I looked for a gate in the fence. But there is a break in the fence where you could step through if you wanted to. It's not easy, but you could do it. So that's where the perp comes from. Hmm. Interesting. Let me mull on that. Go ahead, John Lilly. Sure. As I said, you see that flutter over in the shadow of a tree, and probably on purpose, trying to find a shadow, and then slowly emerges and begins really, for lack of a better word, creeping up the driveway,

medium to a little bit on the tall side height, something, holding something in his hands. It's what appears to be a man. And the video catches him for just, I would say, maybe seven or eight seconds before he goes out of the camera range. And that's the end of any video that even shows him, even though there is a camera on the back of the house, it never picks him up. Darrell Cohen, former prosecutor, current defense attorney in the Atlanta area. Why is it that I can see a rock, a rock, a rock I can hold in my hand on the moon, but I can't make this guy's face out, much less what he's holding in his hand? I'm so irritated. I mean, Target, for Pete's

sake. Have you seen how clear their surveillance video is? I mean, it's awesome. I'll never forget watching top mom Casey Anthony as she was using a forged check to buy beer and push-up bras for Pete's sake while her daughter was missing. I mean, I can make out every tooth in her mouth, every bleached white tooth she's got. So I don't get it, Daryl. Not only is it surveillance, let me just say crap, but at least I've got something. I got something. I got a man coming from those woods up into her home. Can't make out his face. Can't make out what he's carrying. Why is that, Daryl? Well, it seems to me that the surveillance cameras that Kay had were of low quality. They were not commercial quality.

They were probably sold to her some time ago by a company that said, you will now have surveillance cameras. Well, that's great that she has a surveillance camera, but it has to show detail. It has to show more than what it showed. This is typical of sometimes we pay for something and we get less. All right, fine. Blame the victim. Back to you, John Limley. You know, I like what you told me because you told me about the surveillance video and the image and the man, where he came from. That's all relevant. But objection, unresponsive to the question, I ask you about the murder. How was she killed?

Was she strangled? Was she hit with a fire poker? Was she raped? Was anything stolen? Help me out, Lemley. Sure. She was actually stabbed in the back of the neck. She had been tied up. She had been beaten. Oh, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. I didn't know she was tied up. Yes. Oh, oh. So she struggled and he had to subdue her. She's tied up, you said, stabbed in the back of the neck. What else? She had been beaten and had been left in a tub filled with water. It was a horrific scene.

Was she clothed? She was. Clothed in a tub full of water, beaten, stabbed in the back of the neck, and left in a tub of water. Okay, I had to think that through. I have dedicated my life to crime victims, to giving a voice to those who can no longer speak for themselves. And that is why I work with Oxygen to create a new show, Injustice with Nancy Grace. We investigate cases that I believe never got it right, from wrongly accused, to botched investigations to unclear motives to unjust sentences. I don't just cover cases. I solve them. I put my heart and soul in it. Dig deep. Look at the background, at the crime scene, at the families, at the witnesses. I look at every tiny detail because what matters to me is justice. Join us in our search for the truth.

Injustice with Nancy Grace. Watch now on demand and every Saturday at 6, 5 central, only on Oxygen, the true network for crime. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Kay Thomason, brutally murdered in her own home. Months have passed and the case remains unsolved. What happened to Kay Thomason? Dr. Tim Gallagher is with me, thank goodness. The medical examiner for the state of Florida. I mean, he's got so many accolades behind his name.

We'd run out of time. Sorry, Gallagher, but I've got to talk about Kay Thomason right now and not all of your many, many accomplishments. Dr. Gallagher, wow. He killed her, tried to kill her three times over, killed her twice over, stabbed her in the back of the neck, beat her, and apparently was trying to drown her at the same time. Okay, what, what, I don't even know where to start. Dr. Gallagher, oh, how the medical examiners had to see me pull up in my beat-up Honda because I would have to go through every single line of the autopsy report. Mostly that's your fault because you speak in medical ease

that nobody understands except another doctor or maybe a scientist. But talk to me in regular people talk about what you're learning. What does this mean to you in your medical examiner's mind? Well, there's a couple of things that come out to mind. Number one, you're right. I mean, he did try to kill her in several different types of ways, which kind of tells me he may have been a disorganized mindset, meaning this crime may have been just a crime of opportunity. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a crime may have been just a crime of opportunity. Oh, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You're throwing a detective term on me.

There are organ, and I learned this from serial killers, there's organized killers, and there's disorganized killers. We're not just saying they're messy, okay? That is actually a term applied to killers. When you say he was a disorganized killer, that is very significant. Explain, Dr. Gallagher. You're right. There are two types of, or there are several types of killers. One is an organized killer. He's the type of person who plans every facet of the crime right up until the crime is committed, they often make long lists of things that they need to do before the crime and create a shopping list of things to buy before the crime and even after the crime, how to dispose of the body. So their mind goes from step one to step two to step three in a very organized fashion. A disorganized type killer does not have that faculty about them,

does not have that mindset, and will kind of do things ad hoc or as needed during the commission of the crime. Wow. I like the way you said that, Gallagher. So you're not just skin and bones. You are very well versed in the art of crime. In criminology, a disorganized offender is actually a classification. The distinction between organized and disorganized was first drawn by a renowned American criminologist, Roy Hazelwood. The disorganized offender has been stereotyped as low average or below low average intelligence. Now, I disagree with Hazelwood on that because I think anyone, even of high intellect, can kill without a real organized, anal, obsessive plan.

Laura Petler, you're the crime scene analyst. Weigh in on that. You're right, Nancy. From the standpoint of forensic criminology, there are dichotomies. There are different types of killers. However, as a forensic criminologist, what we like to stay away from is really categorizing a crime scene as one or the other because most of the time we see a mixed level of organization as we do here. This appears to be very targeted. It appears to be very purposeful and planned. It's possible that the weapon was brought to the scene by the offender and potentially

carried away by the offender in that, I mean, it looked to me like a sack that he was carrying. And the doorknob is missing from the crime scene. The body's also in water. He used the pummeling, which we often see in power-based offenders, just to subdue the victim. And, you know, the stab wound is the cause of death. And so for me, as a forensic criminologist, it's more about what was the purpose of this crime. The purpose of the crime was potentially sexual assault and robbery. And in order for him to do that, he planned to at least go over there, like you said,

and I think you're exactly right, you know, going through those woods was the perfect opportunity for cover. And then once he gets in there, he has to subdue her somehow. They reported that the crime scene was very violent, that she struggled, she fought back, she fought for her life, and that she was possibly sexually assaulted. But the scene is a reflection of his personality, and his personality is showing us that he's angry, he wants to be in control. He wants power over the victim. And then he knows something about CSI, you know, the greatest CSI effect and how this all plays a role in court. And he puts her in the bathtub to try to destroy any evidence.

I was just coming to you on that, Dr. Tim Gallagher. Dr. Gallagher was suspicious. Did he put her in the tub to try to drown her, make sure she was dead? Did he put her in the tub to try to drown her, make sure she was dead? Did he put her in the tub to try to get rid of trace evidence? There is evidence that she may have been sexually assaulted, but I don't get either she was or she wasn't Dr. Gallagher. I mean, how hard is it to figure out if there is sperm on the body or in the body or in her mouth or in her hair on her face, was she partially clothed? Had her clothes been in disarray or ripped or torn? I mean, how can you say may have been sex assaulted?

Well, that's always the question. If there was semen or sperm or biological material on the body after the body was taken from the female areas and even the rectum. Those would be preserved in water, actually, and then those would give results. Dr. Gallagher, we're not afraid to say vagina. It's not a dirty word. You know, put it out there. So you can look in the rectum area, the vagina, the vaginal area. Well, really, when you're looking at a sex attack, Dr. Gallagher, especially of this nature of a disorganized killer, you could find sperm anywhere on the body, on the stomach, on the back, on the face, on the mouth, just anywhere. I'm also very interested in her clothing, Dr. Gallagher.

Now, explain to me, Dr. Gallagher, when the body gets to the medical examiner's office, the morgue, how do you process those clothes? Now, I know these clothes are soaking wet, but tell me, what do you do if you're looking for sperm or DNA of any type, and you want to look at those clothes, how do you do if you're looking for sperm or DNA of any type and you want to look at those clothes? How do you do it if the clothes are wet or do they do it or they just say, oh, well, it's a lost cause? No, the clothing is a very important part of the process. And there are many techniques that we use. The first technique we would use would be to simply dry the clothing and then any DNA material would be then embedded into the clothing.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. What, do you just throw it in the dryer? How do you dry it? There's got to be a special way. There is. There is. There's a special drying room where the humidity is kept very low. There is no wind or breeze associated with that.

And then the clothes are dried in a very humid, free environment. But you don't actually blow them with like any kind of a vent or a dryer, do you? Because wouldn't that get rid of DNA potentially, like hair or fibers, clothing fibers? Right, yeah, there is no breeze. It's a closed room, and just the humidity is kept very low. So there's no air circulation or very little air circulation. Yeah, I was just trying to imagine that when you said we dry them. I'm like, throw it in the dryer? I guess you couldn't do that, because that could somehow damage evidence as well. So you just let it dry, and then what do you do? Just to reiterate, every aspect of the clothing process is with the intent that the evidence be preserved.

So there's not going to be any violent or ungentle handling of the clothing. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened to Kate Thomason? The question still lingers. I got a question for Laura Petler, crime scene, Alliston private investigator. You're an MVAC expert. What can you tell me about how that could be used? So I was thinking about that as Dr. Gallagher was talking about the clothing. So once the clothing is dried, the other thing that's very common in the drying process is to put the clothing over white sheets or trays.

So if you're laying them flat or you're hanging them up, any of the trace evidence would fall onto those sheets. Then once that process is done and any of that trace is collected, the MVAC is a wet vacuum. It's very similar to a rug doctor with an upholstery attachment. I know that sounds strange, but really it's a great way of understanding what it is. So it looks like a showerhead, and you take the dry clothing, and you turn on the MVAC and it shoots water just like a showerhead down through the handle of the MVAC. And then as you're pulling the handle across the clothing, it also has a suction like a vacuum cleaner. cleaner process where it's pulling all that debris that could be touch DNA, nuclear DNA, various types of biological material all out of the clothing. And what's wonderful about it, Nancy, is instead of just picking an area to swab for touch DNA, say like on the shoulders if someone grabs somebody by the shoulders or on the

wrist, the MVAC is wonderful because we can actually NVAC the entire garment and collect all the material on the entire item of clothing. We don't have to pick which would be most likely where the offender grabbed the victim. Okay, hold on. Wake up, Daryl Cohen. Daryl Cohen, aka, I remember when I first saw you in the courthouse, I found out, first of all, that your nickname was Cool Breeze. I tried not to, you know, judge you because of that. Then I heard the rumor that you left the DA's office because our elected DA, he was like a grandfather to me. Louis Slayton told you you could either be a prosecutor full time or you could be a male model. And you went with male model.

Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but wake up. Our tutorial on forensics is over. I'm going to get back down to the nitty-gritty, and then I want you to weigh in. I don't know how you could represent somebody like this, Daryl Cohen, but somehow you managed to cash the check. John Limley, question to you. What did we learn from the body? The body, in addition to what we've already mentioned, that she had been beaten, tied up, and stabbed in the back of the neck. Investigators and... Why does that just, like, trip off your tongue like you're a nursery rhyme? Hickory dickory dock, the mouse runs...

I mean, the way you say it, she was tied up, she was stabbed in the neck. I mean, do you hear what you're saying, Lamley? It does sound... Can you imagine being alone in a home and finding out this freak is in there? I'm wondering if he brought the knife or if he used a knife from her kitchen. S.O.B. I hate him and I don't even know who he is. Go ahead.

One of the things that investigators noticed that night when they first saw the body and then when the autopsy was taking place is that Kay had some defensive wounds on her. She had put up a fight. She hadn't just taken this sitting down or lying down. She was ready to fight back. Okay, so Daryl Cohen, if you go to the scene, let's pretend. No, no, no, I'll go as a defense lawyer. I was going to say pretend you were still in the DA's office. But if you go to the scene, let's pretend. No, no, no, I'll go as a defense lawyer. I was going to say pretend you were still in the DA's office. But if you go to the scene as a defense lawyer, what are you looking for? The thing I'm looking for is everything. I'm looking to see if there's a knife taken, as you mentioned, from the kitchen.

Normally people have knives all together. I'm looking to see if there's any other evidence that this perp may have made. And by the way, let me point out, I think you guys are giving this guy a lot more intelligence credit than he deserves. I don't see this as an intelligent guy. I don't know if this was a targeted murder and robbery or if it was random. But obviously her house was the easiest house to get to but i don't see him as a bright guy he is obviously disorganized i don't either didn't you hear me say i think he was a disorganized killer i don't think he's that bright i think

he picked the first house he got to but i don't see him as intelligence he may he may be disorganized and they're intelligent people are disorganized i there are intelligent people that are disorganized. I think that he was enraged. Maybe he was looking for a lot more money or jewelry than she may have had. And that's why he tied her up. That's why he stabbed her in the back. I don't think he put her in the tub to get rid of trace evidence or to get rid of any evidence. I think that was just another way of showing his rage. So I go to the house. I'm looking for everything. I'm looking for how he would have entered.

I'm looking for any possibility that there may have been something there that he was looking for that he might have. Maybe she had a yard man. Maybe she had a cleaning service that he may have been told by them. She's keeping this type of wonderful jewelry available. I'm looking for every possibility, and then I throw it out. I throw it in the mix, and then I say, no, this is not what's happened. This should be a treasure trove of information, Daryl Cohen, because not far away at all is her Kia Sorento.

Hello. Were there not any prints on that? I mean, that should be like a massive treasure of evidence, John. Tell me about the car. Where was it found? I assume that was her car. What can you tell me? Tell me everything.

Well, the night that the family member discovered Kay's body there, the first thing they noticed when they drove up to Kay's house was that, June 27th, and it was three days later on Saturday, June 30th, that police did find that SUV, and it was just four or five miles away in the city of Shambly, Georgia, in the parking lot of an apartment complex. They don't have surveillance. The apartment complex doesn't have surveillance in this day and age. I find that very hard to believe. That would be hard to believe, but if it does, police have not released that to the public and to the press. Kay did own some rental properties around Metro Atlanta. However, this was not one of them. This appeared just to be a convenient dump site for the murderer to leave the vehicle with what appears to be no other significance whatsoever. Wait a minute.

A lady living on her own that had rental property all over Atlanta? That means if she was personally involved in, let's just say, rent collection or people coming by her home to leave rent. I don't know if that is accurate or not, but that's a whole nother can of worms. Regarding who killed Kay Thomason with $100,000 reward on the table, video surveillance, a Kia Sorento that should be covered in prints? Potential DNA? Why hasn't this case been solved? Tip line 404-577-TIPS. Repeat, 404-577-8477.

Who murdered Kay Thomason? We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.