Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - "Woman in the Wall" found dead after neighbors call cops about "horrendous smell"

Episode Date: October 22, 2019

Will the discovery of a body sealed inside the drywall in an apartment bring closure to the family of Raven Campbell? She has been missing for six years. The discovery is made inside the apartment she was living in at the time. Joining Nancy Grace to discuss: Darryl Cohen, Former Assistant District Attorney, Fulton County, Ga: James Shelnutt, 27 years Atlanta Metro Major Case detective, SWAT Officer, retired; Dr Katherine Maloney, Nickel City Forensics; Dr. Carla Marie Manly, Clinical Psychologist; and Jennifer Dzikowski, reporter for Heavy.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Today on Crime Stories, we head to Southern California. Rich Lopez received a phone call from an informant who said that she had information that there was a body hidden in the wall. Joining Nancy Grace, Daryl Cohen, former assistant district attorney, Fulton County, Georgia, now famed defense attorney. James Shelnut, 27 years Atlanta Metro major case detective, SWAT officer, now retired. Dr. Catherine Maloney, deputy chief medical examiner for Erie County, New York. Dr. Carla Manley, clinical psychologist and author of

Aging Joyfully and Joy from Fear. And from Heavy.com, reporter Jennifer Zukowski. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We're in Lomita. We're at Palos Verdes Drive and Western. This is an apartment complex with about 100 units by my count here. And just beyond that crime scene tape, in the second farthest unit on the first floor, we have seen homicide investigators come in and out. Neighbors tell us that the resident noticed a smell, reported it, and discovered a body within the wall. We also don't understand the nature of this. THE WALL. THE WALL WAS A POSSIBLE INCIDENT. THE WALL WAS JUST A SMELL.

REPORTED IT AND DISCOVERED A BODY WITHIN THE WALL. WE ALSO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THIS. THESE ARE TYPICAL APARTMENT WALLS. WE'RE TALKING MAYBE ABOUT FOUR TO FIVE INCHES THICK.

SO THERE IS A POSSIBILITY. IS THIS AN ADULT BODY? IS THIS AN INFANT OR A CHILD? AT THIS POINT WE DO NOT KNOW. an infant or a child. At this point, we do not know. We're just going by what neighbors are speaking about here this morning at this complex as they wake up and get this very shocking news that the Sheriff's Department is here investigating potentially a body found within the walls of this apartment complex. Neighbors alert police to a horrible smell. The next thing you know, they are on the scene with canines. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Take a listen to this. This really seems like the plot

out of a horror movie, The Woman in the Wall. L.A. County cadaver dogs have alerted to possible human remains found inside of an apartment here at Harbor Hills. L.A. County homicide detectives are conducting a joint investigation with the coroner's office. Coroner's officials have actually done some excavating inside the residence, and they have removed what appears to be human remains. In terms of identity, sex, race, possible cause of death, it's something that's going to have to be determined in the days that follow. Apparently, the Sheriff's Department received a tip from a confidential source. Detectives are not releasing many details, but according to rumblings among neighbors,

the body had been stuffed into an open space behind a staircase inside of a storage closet. Then, quite possibly, the culprit or perpetrator sealed it up with drywall. You were hearing our friends at KTLA 5. That was Chris Wolfe and Chris Burrus. How does that happen? A woman in a wall? Sounds like straight out of a horror film with me. An all-star panel, renowned defense attorney, prosecutor daryl cohen out of the atlanta jurisdiction atlanta metro major case detective swat officer retired now lawyer james shelnut dr katherine maloney forensics deputy chief medical examiner at erie county medical examiner's office nickel city City Forensics. And joining me, reporter with Heavy.com, Jennifer Cikowski. Straight to you, Jennifer.

What first alerted neighbors? How did they not know something was wrong for this period of time? Well, you know, this story, Nancy, it begins in June of 2009 when family members reported 31-year-old Raven Joy Campbell missing from LaMida, California that's located about 18 miles outside of Los Angeles and also the mother of a seven-year-old son lived with a roommate by the name of Randolph Garbutt who is now 47 years old. Raven who is described by family as innocent, loving, and kind, had moved into the complex in 2008 after having lived at a group home, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported. A friend from high school, Nicole Nelson, asked her if she wanted to move into the apartment along with her boyfriend and, as I said before, Randolph Garbutt, in order to save money.

An officer later said the roommates all became friends, even. From the get-go, Raven Campbell's family became suspicious of their loved one's disappearance, and one of her sisters said she would have never left home without her purse in tow. Not many women do. She never went anywhere without her purse strapped to her body. And also, phone calls to family and friends also ceased, which wasn't like her. So how that went on for so long, people are, you know, family members are sort of blaming authorities, saying why wasn't this location looked into further at the time when she went missing in 2009?

Well, I've got to agree. Straight out to James Shelnut, SWAT officer, now lawyer. James, I don't get it. This is where she lived. This was her new roommate, him and his girlfriend. That would be the first place you look. How can you miss a body in the wall unless it was moved? Yeah, that's certainly possible that it was.

You know, it's also possible that when they looked, the body had not gone into full composition. You know, bodies don't immediately start emitting an odor when they start breaking down and going through that process. If it was shortly afterwards, maybe they didn't. Of course, you're right. It could have been moved back there and put there. You know, obviously, you know, from the reports, it says that they tried to conceal it with some drywall. It's possible they could have put the drywall up and concealed it. It is not the normal place to find the body behind drywall.

And maybe they just didn't put enough effort into really searching it. Daryl Cohen, former prosecutor in the Fulton County District Attorney's Office, now defense attorney. You can find him at DarylCohen.tv. Daryl, I mean, you prosecuted and defended a lot of homicides. In fact, you and I would cross paths in the hallway in the district attorney's office. I never had a case where the body had a lot of concealed bodies, a lot. Never had one behind drywall, did you? Not ever in my career have I even heard of it before this.

It's interesting in many, many ways. Darn. Yeah, well, maybe now. It's interesting in many ways because it has to be a very thin body or very thick drywall. I mean, how do you do this? And why would you do it? Well, now, wait a minute. Jennifer Zukowski, heavy.com reporter. Now, didn't they say there was a space? It was like behind a closet. And then there was a space. And then they just covered it up with drywall. It's not like they, Daryl, at first, I thought the same thing. Because let's

just say you walk through a door. And on one side of the door, where your right hand is, is drywall. On the other side of the door, there's some more drywall. There's a little space in between. I think there is anyway. And yes, that's way too thin, but Jennifer Sikowsky, I don't quite understand the manner in which she was hidden behind drywall okay so there is a little bit more to that a detective in the case said okay so typically when you picture a hole in the wall what most of us picture would be a hole in a wall with a floor directly at the base of the wall

you can kind of paint a picture of that. He said that was not the case here. It was a configuration where the hole in the wall inside of the closet area actually dropped down several feet to a dirt floor. And on top of that, the one reason, you know, going back to how did they not, you know, smell this body even if it was initial stages of decomposition? Well, they are saying that it was concealed, the odor of the body was concealed with the use of laboratory air fresheners, several laboratory air fresheners. Can that really conceal the smell? That's what they said. I find that really hard to believe.

Take a listen to our friend Ted Chen at NBC4. Sheriff's investigators say it will have to be a coroner to determine exactly who this person was. The family came up to us and say they believe they are certain who this was. It was their sister who is missing, who has been missing since 2009, found behind the wall of her own apartment complex. Now, Raven Joy Campbell, she was 31 years old at the time. Her family says she has a 13-year-old son. L.A. County Sheriff's investigators say they got a tip yesterday about possible human remains.

They used cadaver dogs to discover the body. They say they found the body behind the wall of an apartment. The family of Raven Joy Campbell says people had been complaining about the smell and suspected it might be her, but they were told she could not be found. We've been knowing for six years that she's been missing. So finally today, they're going to say, oh, well, we'll get back to you. So we drove out here ourselves because you all put it on the news that a body had been found. This is where we told you she was and that the body has to be hers. There's no question. Again, Sheriff's investigators say it will take some time to confirm the identity of the human

remains, the body that was found. They say they will not be making any further statements today, but we will keep pressing and asking if they believe this could be possibly Raven Joy Campbell missing now for six years. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The police opened up a wall near the staircase in this unit and found the remains. My feeling is that this is Raven. Raven is her cousin, Raven Campbell, who mysteriously disappeared six years ago MY FEELING IS THAT THIS IS RAVEN. RAVEN IS HER COUSIN, RAVEN CAMPBELL, WHO MYSTERIOUSLY DISAPPEARED SIX YEARS AGO WHILE LIVING HERE AT HARBOR HILLS.

TODAY, HUMAN REMAINS WERE FOUND STUFFED IN A WALL INSIDE UNIT 507 AT HARBOR HILLS, SAME APARTMENT RAVEN HAD IN 2009. IN TERMS OF IDENTITY, SEX, RACE, POSSIBLE CAUSE OF DEATH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE DETERMINED IN THE DAYS THAT FOLLOW. I THINK IT'S A VERY IMPORTANT THING TO DO. In terms of identity, sex, race, possible cause of death,

it's something that's going to have to be determined in the days that follow. But Raven's family members say odds are it's their girl. She went missing from that location. That location was never thoroughly searched. And now we get a call and they find human remains. The chances that it would be in is pretty, pretty nil. You are hearing our friends at KTLA. That was Rick Chambers.

Oh, my stars. Can you imagine the anger of that family? Reporting with heavy.com, Jennifer Zukowski. No wonder they're angry. It was even the same apartment where she lived six years ago. Exactly. That's what's so disturbing about this all how did it take so long you know tenants they

apparently had complained of a foul odor emitting from the apartment previously and it got pretty pretty bad and that's when they called investigators up, and they got involved. Acting on that tip, detectives went to the home, and the next day, they received permission to enter the premises from a new tenant who lived there. Of course, you know, this was over six years later. Someone else lived there. They proceeded to enter the home along with canines, and those canines, bless their hearts, sensed something inside of a closet beneath a staircase in the apartment. Investigators were then given permission to knock it down after finding a hole that had been obviously patched up. And that's when they knew something was off. And the next week is when Raven Campbell's remains were removed from where officers had taken down that wall, which was an empty area beneath the steps, as we had previously stated.

And, you know, she had moved in in order to save money. But ultimately, saving money for this young mother would also ultimately you know cost her her life guys we are talking about a a lovely young woman that goes missing six years ago at the time with a seven year old child her pocketbook that she always carries strapped across her front wearing it you know across her shoulder and her cell phone still in the apartment everybody knew that didn't make sense joining me from nickel city forensics the deputy chief medical examiner at erie county in buffalo dr katherine maloney dr maloney again thank you for being with us and taking time out of your very busy schedule to be with us dr maloney hey

if any of you listening have a weak stomach, you know what, turn down the volume for just a moment. Dr. Maloney, I've got to figure this thing out. I would not have believed that a body would still have a stench, a decomposing body, six years later. I would have thought by that time it would have been more mummified. Well, it really depends on the conditions of the body. It sounds like he had wrapped the body in a blanket and a sheet of plastic. And so that probably would have made it difficult for things like flies and other animals

to sort of break the body down and kind of would have trapped all the smell inside. So I wonder if something started happening where maybe the plastic started to give way. And that's why the odor became much worse after six years of her being down there. Okay. You know what? I hear you talking, but it's still not making sense to me. Why after six years, her body was to the point that there was a stench because common sense dictates to me that it would have been mummified. Why again are you telling me neighbors could smell it? So with mummification what you really need is a very cool dry environment and so with the body being wrapped in plastic that probably prevented it from drying out and so if the body can't dry out, then it can't really mummify. And instead, it kind of gets sort of slimy and gooey. So that's probably what happened to her body.

And then at some point, maybe the plastic broke down or something happened and the smell became more apparent. Now, that makes sense to me. With the body being encased in plastic, it didn't have a chance to, quote, dry out. There was also a comforter just to add that in over the plastic just to make it even more concealed. And maybe that also added a layer to that concealing that smell. Oh, that's a good point. Jennifer Zekowski with me at heavy.com because apparently her body, I'm talking about the body of a 32-year-old mom, Raven Campbell, was found wrapped in a blanket, or as Jennifer is telling me, a comforter,

which is even more, I guess, fluffy and would hold in more heat, wrapped in a comforter and then a sheet of plastic. You know what's confusing to me? Daryl Cohen, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, if the neighbors were complaining of this stench, what about the people that lived there? Do you remember the other day we were speaking with a doctor? It was a medical examiner, a male medical examiner. His name is going to come to mind in a moment.

And I asked him, how do you perform one autopsy after the next and keep breathing? With a smell of decomp, he goes, oh, my kid brother punched me in the nose when I was little. I have no sense of smell. I'm like, okay, I guess that's a plus in your line of business. But, Daryl Cohen, how could the residents not know something was horribly wrong? Why did it take neighbors to call police? Nancy, I am baffled, but perhaps it goes back to the old days when women would have their hair permed and you could go to a department store. Those of us who didn't work there heard a smell, a terrible odor.

Those people who worked there just didn't smell it. They became oblivious to it. Perhaps the neighbors, the residents thought, well, this is normal. I don't understand how they would think it's normal, but there are some things that we just cannot explain. This is one I think that's not explainable. I just don't understand how six years passed and cops knew nothing. What do we know about the body? To you, Jennifer Skowski, what was the COD or could they even tell? Well, yes. So what they determined was that Raven Campbell was beaten to death with a hammer.A. County Sheriff's Department. Ultimately, the case went cold. And fortunately, in June of 2015, homicide detective Rich Lopez received a phone call from an informant who said that she had information that there was a body hidden in the wall of the residence in Lomita where Raven Campbell went missing from in 2009.

Detectives responded to that residence that day. There was no one at home. Ultimately, that weekend, detectives used a cadaver dog who showed interest in a certain portion of the residence. It was a portion of a closet, and there appeared to be a patchwork hole, a hole had been patched portion of the residence. It was a portion of a closet and there appeared to be a patchwork hole, a hole had been patched over in the closet. Detectives removed the actual piece of paneling that was used to patch it up and there appeared to be something suspicious behind this wall on the floor, a floor a good distance down in this closet area of the residence. Ultimately, the following week, the SORT team from the coroner's office and homicide detectives responded and human remains were exhumed and recovered from the residence in the hole, in the area behind the hole in the wall in the closet.

Coroner's office did their work and ultimately the human remains were verified to be that of Raven Campbell. crime stories with nancy grace jennifer tsikowsky uh i'm just still concerned that it took cops this long to find the body because as you pointed out when she goes missing her purse and her phone were still there. That was where she lived. And now we have a tipster, a CI, confidential informant, appear out of nowhere all these years later to not only say, hey, there's something that smells really foul coming out of this apartment but actually knew there was a body in the wall. Myesha Smith is the girlfriend of Garbutt and she was guaranteed immunity by officials in order to speak out against him. She shares a child with him and she testified that he revealed to her that he killed Raven by slamming her head with a hammer bludgeoned her to death and in fact her her quote is he hit her one time

and she kind of fought for her life and he hit her again end quote and then again said, he said God wanted her. That is why she is saying that Garba took her life. I mean, when you narrow down the suspects, as a matter of fact, take a listen to Lieutenant Steve Yock. A woman by the name of Raven Campbell, she's 37 years old. She went missing in July of 2009 from a residence on Western Avenue in Lomita. Homicide detectives, missing persons detail did some work early on as part of that missing person investigation. Interviews were conducted, bank records were checked, phone records were checked. Ultimately, the case went cold. At the time that Raven Campbell resided at that residence on Western Avenue, she was one of four

people living there. There was a friend of several years, and I'm going to identify her as Nicole. She resided there with her boyfriend, and our detectives wanted to speak with whoever the residents of record were. It was Nicole and her boyfriend, and they indicated to detectives that they were friends of hers, especially Nicole had been friends for years. They brought her to live at the residence so she could save some money, and ultimately they found out that during the six months that Nicole was out of there prior to her disappearance, Randolph Garbutt was also staying there as a friend. You were just hearing Lieutenant Steve Yacht with the L.A. County Sheriff's Department

Homicide Division. I mean, you know, common sense, Daryl Cohen. That's where she's living. It took him six years to figure that out. And they keep saying the case went cold. I don't think the case went cold. I don't think the case went cold. I think they didn't follow through with the search for Raven Campbell. I don't understand why they never executed a search warrant. I understand that it was an odor. You execute a search warrant,

you use your Godava dogs, and yeah, they did exactly the right thing many years later. So why did this go cold? What happened? Question I don't understand, but I do understand why there's immunity to a certain CI. Take a listen to our friend, reporter Rick Chambers at KTLA. Nicole Nathan was Raven's roommate at the time of the disappearance. She and her boyfriend, Raymond PardUE, MAY BE THE LAST TWO PEOPLE TO SEE RAVEN ALIVE.

THIS PAST MAY, NICOLE POSTED ON FACEBOOK THAT SHE MISSED RAVEN. BUT RAVEN'S FAMILY TONIGHT IS SUSPICIOUS. I ABSOLUTELY THINK THAT NICOLE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HER DISAPPEARANCE AND OR DEATH. DETECTIVES THOUGH TELL THE

FAMILY THAT MS. NATHAN IS COOPERATING WITH THEM. AS FOR POSITIONS, THE FAMILY SAYSPONSIBLE FOR HER DISAPPEARANCE AND OR DEATH. DETECTIVES TELL THE FAMILY THAT MS. NATHAN IS COOPERATING WITH THEM. AS FOR POSITIVE I-D ON THE REMAINS, DENTAL RECORDS SHOULD HELP. RAVEN HAD A GAP IN HER FRONT TEETH AND THAT COULD MAKE

IDENTIFICATION A BIT EASIER. AND RAVEN CAMPBELL'S FAMILY IS UPSET TONIGHT WITH THE L.A. COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT. THEY ASKED THAT UNIT 507 BE SEARCHED SIX YEARS AGO WHEN RAVEN DISAPPEARED. BUT DETECTIVES APPARENTLY NEVER

FOLLOWED UP ON IT. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE DETECTIVES ARE. THE DETECTIVES ARE TELLING US THAT THE FAMILY IS COOPERATING WITH THEM. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FIND OUT WHAT THE DETECTIVES ARE. is upset tonight with the LA County Sheriff's Department. They asked that unit 507 be searched six years ago when Raven disappeared, but detectives apparently never followed up on it. You are hearing our friends there at KTLA. That was reporter Rick Chambers. I guess they are upset. Even neighbors calling police. Now take a listen to Chris Wolfe at KTLA. This is the story

circulating among neighbors like Jose Luna. I don't know what's beyond this wall, you know, and I guess they found her dead down here in this closet, in a closet like this. Yeah, I'm really shocked. I think everybody's really shocked. You know, I've talked to my friends and, you know, shocked to hear that there's a, you know, a body behind the walls. Authorities had to relocate the family currently living in the apartment, now under investigation. Well, they're trying to figure out who lived there at the time. According to reports, 32-year-old Raven Joy Campbell lived at the apartment in 2009 when she disappeared. Family members now fear the worst and believe part of the mystery of their loved one's disappearance may have been solved. Yeah, the missing person case involving

Raven Joy Campbell went cold during the last six years until this recent tip that her body was behind a wall here at Harbor Hills Apartments. Again, nothing is confirmed other than the fact that the L.A. County Coroner's Office is examining possible human remains. So back to you, Jennifer Sikowski, joining me from heavy.com. You've got Raven. She has a seven-year-old child living with Randolph Garbutt, who is the boyfriend of Nicole, and I hear Raven's family blaming Nicole. And isn't it true when cops approach Randolph Garbutt, he actually blames Nicole as well. It's my understanding that he says Nicole is the one who murdered Raven, but then he took the fall for it. That sounds pretty hard to believe for me.

Yeah, and that's exactly what transpired and what he did place the blame on, on his ex-girlfriend. His attorney argued that it wasn't true, that his client did not kill Raven Campbell, and that Myesha was the one who killed her, saying he confessed only so that their child would still have a mother. Officials didn't buy that, and it really isn't clear why authorities didn't connect Smith with the crime, as she was receiving mail and government-issued checks in the victim's name. Uh-oh, uh-oh, hold on, hold on, right there. James

Shelnut, 27 years with Atlanta Metro, major case detective, SWAT officer, now lawyer, there you go, right there, getting her checks, getting her income. I wonder how long this woman, Nicole, allegedly cashed the victim's checks that were coming in the mail. Yeah, you know, that'd be really interesting to know. You know, a lot of homicides are solved after the fact by people being greedy, by people pushing it too far. You know, it's not enough that they killed this woman and stuffed her in a wall. Now she's going to maximize the crime even further by taking this woman's check, taking her money. She even had possession of this lady's ID card using her identity.

And I think that greed, I think that boldness, those are two of the things that got her caught in this situation, or at least led to an arrest in this situation. You know, I look at this and I think, why did this lady get immunity when I first started looking at this story? But, you know, there is a real chance, a real chance that this lady was the killer. And I think that prosecutors probably looked at that. I think that, you know, it's not necessarily what the prosecutor believes. It's what the prosecutor thinks a jury may believe. And I can understand how they grant immunity and I can understand how the situation unfolded the way that it did. When you say you understand how they

granted immunity to the girlfriend, what's there to understand? Why couldn't they both be tried and let them stew in the same pot together? Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. I think that they needed a witness in this case. I think that they needed someone to point the finger. And I think that they were possibly, and I'm trying to read the mind of somebody hindsight, but I think that they were possibly concerned that a jury may not be able to make a determination as to which one actually did it. Well, you know, he's got a point. Dr. Catherine Maloney, Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Erie County Medical Examiner's Office, Nickel City Forensics. Dr. Maloney, what forensic evidence do you believe could be gleaned from her body

six years later? And that's where the stench comes in as far as probative evidence. If the body is mummified versus a stench, what does that tell you about what evidence can be obtained? So if the body smells really bad, it's probably very decomposed. The skin has probably mostly come off. It's going to be really soft. It's going to be mushy. It's going to be very difficult to get any evidence off the body at all in terms of trying to connect this to someone else. I think in any case, or in this case, you'd definitely be better trying to get evidence off of maybe the blankets or the sheet, because the body itself probably isn't

going to give you very much. Dr. Catherine Maloney, with the body in that state of decomp, I think it would be very difficult to get even touch DNA, any DNA at all. Why? Well, the body itself, definitely not. not I mean the DNA probably would have decomposed itself by this point and then the bacteria that are breaking down the body would have also gone after that DNA I mean I think you would definitely not be getting any touch DNA off the body itself you'd really have to hope you'd be able to get something off those blankets or that plastic. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jennifer Zagowski, Heavy.com. When Garbutt, Randolph E. Garbutt, 43, was approached about the time that Raven Campbell lived in the apartment and her death. What did he say? About Raven Campbell returning home after a night of bingo with friends and said that she

had fallen down and hit her head. He then said he was afraid that he was going to be blamed for these injuries and subsequently suffocated her using a plastic bag so he wouldn't get the blame for her being hurt. Myesha Smith, the girlfriend, now she had a different story during testimony. She said that she had fallen asleep. She was actually the one who had been out playing bingo and she was startled awake after she heard a wall being drilled into and that's when she discovered garbutt inside the closet beneath the staircase and she said he was drilling a hole out and that's also when she witnessed a body being wrapped up and covered by the the floral comforter smith said garbutt simply pushed quotes pushed the body into the wall, unquote.

And she also testified to having moved the body herself about two inches and kept a lookout for anyone who might have witnessed what was going on, as instructed by Sedgarbut. Detectives at Sedgarbut tried to conceal the odor of the body, which we went through with the use of, you know, several laboratory air fresheners. Well, this is what I don't understand right there. To Daryl Cohen, renowned defense attorney out of Atlanta, how do you wake up and you

see your roommate stuffing a body into the wall and then you don't run out and call 911. You actually help and push it in about two more inches. How does that work, Darrell Cohen? Because that sounds an awful lot like a co-defendant to me. It sounds like an absolute co-defendant, and maybe they helped because they were fearful if they didn't that they would be a co-defendant, so better to help and hide it, even though you can't conceal it and

certainly can't hide the smell but it's a co-defendant from the moment it wakes up to the moment there's a conviction this is another thing jennifer zagowski heavy.com we've got the woman you refer to maisha smith you have randolphbutt, but you also have the Nicole person. Now, who are these three people in relation to each other? And Nicole lived with her boyfriend along with the other two. Garbutt was not romantically involved with anyone there, but all four of the people, including the victim, were roommates. Well, I mean, it seems to me, to Daryl Cohen, defense attorney, if he gave a statement that

she, the victim, Raven Campbell, came in with bruises and injuries from a night at bingo, yeah, I guess that gets pretty crazy at the bingo hall. And he was afraid he would be blamed for her bruises, so then he suffocated her. Daryl Cohen, why do we need a witness? Why do we need to give immunity to anybody? This is Belay's belief and Belay's logic. When he says that this is what happened. There is no immunity. There is nothing but a double prosecution. But there's something here that we don't know about, and there's something that we need to find out. I don't know what it is, but with all due respect, it doesn't smell right. And then an arrest. Raven Campbell, we've now known by police

that the suspect they've arrested in her murder was one of her former roommates, a 43-year-old man with narcotic convictions, now behind bars, charged with her murder. Take a look at some of the video from the scene. Back in July, Campbell's body was discovered there in July at the Harbor Hills Housing Project after she was reported missing for six years.

Tips led police to the apartment where they found her body stuffed in a wall of the apartment that she shared with those roommates. The cause of death, according to police, blunt force trauma. Her family had suspected all along some of her old roommates might be involved in her disappearance. Police say the suspect, 43-year-old Randolph Garbutt, definitely was involved. Our suspect, Mr. Garbutt, was also living there at the time that we verified that Raven was living there. And what we know right now is that all four were friends. Now, police do say the other two roommates have been cooperative with police, but so far have not been arrested. They stress the investigation is ongoing.

Police will not elaborate at this point the motive for the murder. That's NBC4 reporter Makishio Medina to Jennifer Zagowski. The victim's family is furious about a sweet sentence of just 11 years, plus credit for time served, which was four years. So he's basically going to do the amount of time that she was behind the wall dead. That's exactly how Raven Campbell's sister, Cynthia Campbell, what she stated in court, that the quote, it's chilling. It hit me. She said the irony is this man will probably only do about as much time as she was while she was in the wall. The punishment is not just, but we're just going to have to accept it.

How sad is that? How sad is it that she had this at the time when she went missing? She had a seven-year-old son who I believe is on the verge or just turned 18. And family members said that he was really holding on to the belief that she was still alive. So if you can imagine, infuriating. That is heartbreaking. I mean, Daryl Cohen, can you think of any reason why they would give such a light sentence? I cannot, Nancy.

I am just befuddled. I'm unable to. Well, I can think of one. Go ahead. Because maybe they thought, maybe prosecutors thought they couldn't prove the case, and so they would take whatever they could get. But they've got a confession. I agree.

But a confession alone does not a case make. As a matter of fact, the law is that a case cannot be prosecuted on a confession alone. Then you've got a confidential informant, but if they're going to stay confidential, that may mean you can't get them to testify. I just, I agree with you, Daryl. Of course it's a ridiculous sentence. I'm just trying to think of any justifications for the short sentence. Well, then you also have Myesha Smith who was cashing those checks.

Sorry, but that's just something I think is so important in this, a huge component. She was out cashing these checks. Why was she granted immunity right away? Why is why was that not looked into further? And is that part of why it was? Which one was cashing checks, Jennifer?

Myesha Smith, the Garbuck's girlfriend. Okay, in my mind, James Shelnut, between the Myest's girlfriend. Okay, in my mind, James Shelnut, between the Maisha Smith girlfriend still cashing checks, a statement from Randolph Garbutt that he strangled her, asphyxiated her, and then hid the body, and frankly, hiding the body alone. Why would you hide the body if there was not something nefarious involved?

I don't know why they pled it out so cheap. I mean, I don't know why they got such a light sentence. Yeah, it's bothersome. And I agree. Michael made some good points a minute ago. And I agree with a lot of the points that he said, as well as you made some good points that I think the prosecutors were concerned about this, you know, and again, it's always tough to get back and reread their mind. But you have to think that the thought process was, look, she could have very well been involved. The prosecutors could have believed, hey, this lady may be more involved in what she's telling us. And I think maybe they picked their poison in this case and said, look, if she is involved, we can't necessarily

prove it in the actual murder itself. We need a witness. We know that he's involved. You know, let's just pick our poison. Let's make sure we prove the case against at least one of them and go from there. And that's sad to think that it works that way, but sometimes you do pick your poison. And another point, another point following up on what you're saying, James Shelnut, is when the prosecution, they find the body six years later. When the prosecution gets the case, they didn't have anything to do with cops not finding the body first go around. They're stuck with the case six years old, and they've got to make silk out of a sow's ear. Absolutely.

They may have done just that, picked the lesser of two evils. I, however, think they should have tried them all together and let a jury come up with the verdict on all three of them together. Our prayers and sympathy to the family of Raven Campbell, especially her little boy growing up without mommy. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.