Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Young College Student Disappears After Night Out With Friends. What Happened to Lauren Spierer?

Episode Date: December 27, 2021

It's been 20 years since Lauren Spierer disappears after an evening with friends. Just after midnight, Spierer leaves her Smallwood Plaza apartment with a male friend, headed to a party thrown by fellow student Jason Rosenbaum. About two hours later, Lauren and another friend Corey Rossman walk down the street to Kilroy Sports Bar, then head back to her apartment and then to Rossman's place again. Police later find cops later find Spierer shoes and cell phone back at the bar and her ID and keys in an alley. Back at Corry Rossman's apartment, he passes out and his roommate calls Jason Rossman to come get Spierer. Rossman says Lauren wants to go home. He says the last time he saw Lauren was at 4:15 as he watches her walk the few blocks to her home. Rossman says he saw a shadowy figure approach Lauren as she turns the corner toward her apartment. Lauren never makes it home.Joining Nancy Grace today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego, Twitter: @WendyPatrickPHD Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, www.drbethanymarshall.com, New Netflix show: 'Bling Empire' (Beverly Hills) Michael N. Ciravolo - Spierer Family Private Investigator, Beau Dietl & Associates, Former Commander, New York City Police Department, Paul Szych [ZIKE] - Former Police Commander, Author: "StopHimFromKillingThem" on Amazon Kindle, StopHimFromKillingThem.com, Twitter: @WorkplaceThreat, Screen Actors Guild-Eligible Actor, Experience using firearms with blanks during live action movie scenes (Terminator: Salvation) Nicole Partin - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Twitter: @nicolepartin (Naples, FL) Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A 20-year-old girl goes missing in a popular college town, Bloomington, Indiana. Where is Lauren Spearer? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation and Sirius XM 111. Take a listen to our cut to this is our friend Pat LaLama, Crime Watch Daily.

June 3rd, just after midnight, Lauren leaves her small Wood Plaza apartment and heads to fellow student Jason Rosenbaum's party at Five North Townhomes. It's the beginning of a night of heavy drinking. At 1.46 a.m., Lauren and another friend, Corey Rossman, leave the party and walk down the street to Kilroy's Sports Bar. Witnesses say Lauren is already drunk and barely able to stand. Cops later find her shoes and cell phone at the bar. At 2.27 a.m., Lauren and Corey head back to her apartment. They never get to her room. Once inside the complex, investigators say Corey argues with another student and gets punched in the face. At 2.48, Corey and Lauren head back to Corey's place.

Through this dark alley, witnesses say Lauren is so out of it now, she falls and hits her head. Bloomington police find Lauren's ID and keys in the alley. Keys, ID, in the alley. But no, Lauren, take a listen to our cut three. At around 3 a.m., the two get back to Corey's apartment. Corey says he passes out, then claims he suffered amnesia from getting punched in the face earlier and now tells police he remembers nothing about that night. Corey's roommate tells police he calls Jason Rosenbaum, the guy Lauren was partying with earlier, to come get his friend. Corey's roommate claims that's the last time he ever saw Lauren. At 4.14, this grainy surveillance video captures a white pickup cruising nearby. 4.15 a.m., Jason walks Lauren back to his apartment.

He tells police she wanted to go home, so he watched her walk to this intersection from his balcony. Jason claims a shadowy figure approached Lauren when she turned toward her apartment. Lauren never made it home. What happened to Lauren, just 20 years old? From Scarsdale, New York, she graduated Edgemont High School and enrolled at Indiana University. She moved to Bloomington to study fashion and fashion merchandise. Still no clues as the months and years pass. With me, an all-star panel trying to make sense of what we

know about the disappearance of Lauren Spearer. Wendy Patrick joining us, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon, and host of Today with Dr. Wendy on KCBQ San Diego, Dr. Angela Arnold. We're now psychiatrists joining us from the Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at AngelaArnoldMD.com. Michael Cervolo, the Spear family, private investigator with Bo Dietl and Associates, former commander, NYPD. But first to Nicole Parton, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter joining us. Nicole, what happened? It sounds like everybody was partying around a game, a college game. Right. So this is one of the common things, I think, that her and her group of friends would do.

But this particular time, they were celebrating the NBA playoffs. So they started this pregame celebration at one friend's home. They left that friend. They went down to Kilray Sports Bar. She left with one of her friends, Corey. They walked back to his apartment. They went to another friend's apartment. It was a night long party from one place to the other, back and forth. And there are moments that we capture surveillance. There are moments we have witnesses. And then there are moments when we don't know what happened.

Joining me is a very special guest, Michael Cerevolo, the Spear Family Private Investigator with Bo Dillon Associates. Michael, thank you for being join us. Thank you for being with us. Michael, what is your understanding about what happened that night? Well, I've always maintained during the course of this investigation that one of three things may have befallen Lauren in the early morning hours of June 3rd. Number one being she never left the house of Jay Rosenbaum. She had a heart condition. She had some alcohol that evening,

and perhaps she just passed them natural causes, and the boys up there not wanting to mess up their careers after college, they all come from affluent families, may have disposed of her body in some way, shape, or form. The second scenario, which is very much still in play, is that her boyfriend, Jesse Wolf, who was known to be very jealous and protective of Lauren, may have gotten wind that she was out with Corey Rossman and fraternizing with these other boys out of his circle of friends and may have been lying in wait for her when she left that apartment

and things might have gotten out of hand if there was a confrontation. And maybe her boyfriend, Jesse Wolf, did something to her and disposed of the body. And the third scenario, which is, as I say, very much in play, is that an opportunist on the street, a stranger, a random opportunist on the street a stranger a random opportunist may have seen a 95 pound barefoot girl walking down the street intoxicated and taking advantage of her and put her in his his car and made made off with. So those are the three scenarios that any one of them are possible. There's no one that is stronger than the other. And at this point in time, 10 years into the investigation, one of the reasons I do these types of shows is in hopes someone who knows something will come forward and say something, give us a substantive tip so we can bring some closure to the Spira family and bring Lauren home. Take a listen to our cut for this is what's happening. And after the immediate disappearance of Lauren Spearer, this is our friend Angeline Hartman on AMW. Right now,

a massive search is underway in Bloomington, Indiana, for Lauren Spearer, a 20 year old sophomore at Indiana University. Lauren disappeared on Friday, June 3rd. Police say Lauren left a Bloomington sports bar around 2.30 a.m. with a male acquaintance. She briefly stopped by her apartment building before going out once more. Around 4.30 a.m., Lauren supposedly told friends she was calling it a night and was headed home. But no one has seen her since But no one has seen her since. No one has seen her since. Let's walk through her steps that night. To you, Nicole Parton, what can you tell us?

So they started out partying with friends, a group of about 10 of these college students, early in the evening, midnight, something like that. They finished kind of partying there. She goes back to her apartment for a moment. She leaves her apartment. She goes to the apartment of a friend, Corey Rossman. Her and Corey Rossman make their way down to Kill Ray's Sports Bar, where they, again, meet up with friends. There's drinking.

They're partying there that's where we believe that um lauren loses her cell phone and her shoes kill ray sports bar has an outside wait wait wait wait wait right there right there wendy patrick uh if you're hearing what nicole parton is saying she lee loses her cell phone her shoes. How do you lose your cell phone and your shoes? Yeah, that's a huge red flag. Most people probably wouldn't lose those items. Those are pretty important. So right away, you start to sort of take the story apart and figure out, wait a minute, who was there? Who possibly could have seen that? And you begin to form a timeline when you start hearing facts like that. Very, very important. And you begin to form a timeline when you start hearing

facts like that. Very, very important. What about to you, Dr. Angela Arnold, what does that tell you? Well, Nancy, it tells me that from what you said at the very beginning, they were out for a night of partying. And it tells me it sounds like she was a little bit too drunk for her own good. Stop right there. So you're blaming her because she was drinking? No, no, no, no. I'm not. Yeah, well, it sounds like when you say she was a little too drunk for her own good.

Well, I mean, Nancy. Why is that somehow her fault? You know, Nancy, I'm not blaming her. But I'm saying if you are very intoxicated, you lose the ability to make good decisions for yourself. And you also can lose your things. And it sounds like that's what happened to her. But I'm not saying, I mean, poor thing, I've got kids this age, Nancy. And, you know, you talk to them and you teach them and you ask them not to drink too much and things like that.

But sometimes kids go out and they have a really good time. And every last one of us has done that in our lives, I believe. And it's very unfortunate what happened. Speak for yourself. Nancy! crime stories with nancy grace what transpired that night we know the family immediately goes to the location take a listen to our friend jackie how CrimeOnline.com. This is Cut 5. Lauren Spearer's family traveled from New York to Indiana as Bloomington Police launched an all-out search effort, along with hundreds of volunteers.

Lauren's father, Robert. In this area, there's a lot of open space and wooded areas. We're asking that you check your own properties, look through the fields, look through the woods, look in the barns to see if you can find anything. After a week, there is still no sign of Lauren, her mother, Charlene. Somebody knows where Lauren is. Somebody knows. Lauren is four feet, 11 inches tall with long blonde hair and blue eyes. The police point out, however, if she was kidnapped, her appearance may have been altered. Were there any signs, straight out to you, private investigator for the Spiro family, Michael Cirovola, were there any signs or

any evidence that pointed to a kidnap? No. When you say kidnap, that would bring in scenario number three, an opportunist on the street. I spend many, many weeks in Bloomington and late at night in the early morning hours, there are some homeless types that roam the street at night and, you know, coming across a petite, little attractive barefoot girl, she could have been easy prey for someone, you know, who's a rapist or something along those lines to snap her up off the street. I mean, it is in the realm of possibility. And that's why the three scenarios that I pointed out earlier remain in play. Here we are 10 years later and they remain in play.

Take a listen to Our Cut 6. This is Catherine Schiaffi, WCBS. 20-year-old Lauren Spear vanished two weeks ago today. While Bloomington police have received more than 500 tips on the white truck that was circling where she was last seen, her dad, Robert Spear, is still begging anyone with information to come forward. Get the courage and tell us anything that you know. As he gets choked up, his wife explains that's all he wants for Father's Day. And then Spear continues.

Let your parents know how much you love them. And the parents out there on Sunday, make sure that you let your children know how much you love them. 500 tips on a white truck circling the area where Lauren was last seen. A truck circling, I mean, Wendy, Patrick, that brings up all sorts of horrible connotations. Oh, it sure does. That's our worst nightmare. You know, when I was growing up, it was the white van with no windows. Now it's almost anybody that's casing a scene.

And, you know, Neighborhood Watch is only as good as people that are watching. And so when you do see this type of activity in a certain area, it definitely means something. The clue now is to figure out whether or not it's connected to the disappearance. Take a listen now to our friends at WCBS 880 Radio, our Cut 7 listen. Police are expanding who they're speaking to. Friends and associates of Lauren Spear are now being questioned. While they don't have a suspect, cops say they do have a number of persons of interest. Police are now also exploring the possibility that Spear overdosed on cocaine,

a tip that Bloomington Police Captain Joe Qualters says they have received. We've also heard a lot of other types of information. We are not going to focus on one aspect of information that we get in until that information can be corroborated. Meanwhile, Spears' father, Robert Spears, says they're not giving up on their search. And we are very much focused on finding Lauren. And he's urging anyone with information to come forward. I don't know how

the suggestion that she OD'd on cocaine when there was not any evidence that she had used it before wormed its way into the investigation. Is that to denigrate her, to somehow drag her through the mud? And also, who would have known she OD'd on cocaine? And if she did OD on cocaine, why didn't somebody just call 911? That doesn't make sense to me, Wendy Patrick, that somebody OD's, passes out, and you stand by and let them die. You don't call 911. And then what? Dispose of the body? That's just like the argument that George Anthony stood by and saw Kelly drowning in the pool.

Then instead of calling 911 when he finds her body or trying to resuscitate her, he puts her in a trash bag and throws her in the woods. No, that did not happen. In court, we would say that's not a reasonable interpretation of the evidence. It's not the way somebody would act if those facts happened. Somebody would definitely call 911. You would find the evidence you needed to be able to explain what happened and that would exonerate you. It's beyond the pale to suggest unreasonable actions in response to what most people would see as an emergency that paramedics would probably be able to help you through. So no, that's probably not going to fly for exactly the reason. And who are those people that are calling in claiming she OD'd?

How do they know that? Were they there? Are they the ones that hit her body? It also doesn't fit to me with the facts because we know that around 2.48 a.m., everybody's out celebrating the NBA playoffs. They're all going from bar to bar, a group of people. Spear entered an alley that runs between College Avenue and Morton Street. Security cameras mounted there actually show her at 2.51 a.m. walking toward an empty lot. We don't know where she was going. Now, her keys and her purse were found along this route through the alley. Spear

and Rossman arrive at the apartment shortly after. A roommate at the apartment says she had been drinking. She stumbled. So we know she was there. He claims she left to go to her own apartment. What happens after that, Nicole Parton? So she goes back

to the apartment of Corey Rossman. Corey begins to vomit. He's passing out. His roommate, Mike Best, helps Corey upstairs to his bedroom, comes back downstairs, realizes that Lauren is really in bad shape. She's had way too much to drink. His story is that he tries to get her to spend the night there, knowing that she's in no shape whatsoever to try to get home. But she's insisting that she go home. She's wanting to find her cell phone.

She's very adamant about leaving. So Mike Beth claims that he walks her next door to the apartment of Jay Rosenbaum because Jay was a very close friend of Lauren's. Who is the boyfriend? He's not even here. He's not in the picture at this point. But what's his name? He's not there partying with her. His name is Jesse Wolf.

Right. Okay. Go ahead, Nicole. Jesse Wolf. He's not with her at this point. He's not in the partying mix. So Jay Rosenbaum tries to convince her to stay there next door with him at his apartment because she is in no condition to walk home. Again, she insists.

His story is that, you know, he wasn't going to hold her against her will. And so she leaves and she's going to walk the two and a half blocks home. There's a claim that they that they saw her walk to the end of the block. They could see her from their balcony, that she made it to the block to turn the corner. And then at that point, they don't see her. There's also a surveillance image of her around 4.30 a.m. right there at the corner, making her two and a half blocks home. crime stories with nancy grace so michael cerevolo the spear family private investigator. We have images of her alive at 430 at the intersection, the cross street, where Jay Rosenbaum says he sees her walk to.

I don't believe that to be factual. I've never seen any images of Lauren after she leaves Jay Rosenbaum's house. The building across the street, which was under construction at that time, directly across the street, was not yet completed. There were no surveillance cameras mounted outside. Now, today, on this date, if you walk onto 11th Street, you'll be under surveillance cameras. There's got to be more than a dozen of them. But on June 3rd of 2011, there was not any surveillance cameras on the college at 11th. The only thing that we have is Jay Rosenbaum claiming that he stood out on his second floor balcony, which is a very narrow balcony, and yelled to her, Lauren, text me when you find your phone.

And then he said he thinks, because it is a distance away, he sees a second person intersect, come close to Lauren when she gets to the corner. As far as video surveillance footage of that occurrence, to my knowledge, it does not exist. So Michael Cervolo, the surveillance video was earlier when she was in the alley where we think she lost her cell phone and she's not up on the corner when she left the apartment. Right. That is correct. All right. So we have one surveillance video, but not when she had left the apartment. Take a listen to our friend Patty Ann Brown at Fox News. The friend of a missing Indiana college student tells police he

has memory loss from the night she disappeared. Lauren Spearer was last seen June 3rd after a night out with friends. Now a new report reveals two hours before she vanished, Spearer helped a male friend get home after he'd been in a scuffle. And that friend now claims he was punched in the face and has no memory of how the night ended. Corey Rossman, this person who she was walking back and forth with has hired a lawyer immediately. And the lawyer says that when Corey and Lauren arrived at that building, that there was that fight, Corey was punched in the face. And the lawyer claims that now Corey has no memory of anything else that happened that night. Fishy, you know, we call that convenient amnesia in law enforcement. You know, why is it? Here's my question. Why does this guy run out so quickly and lawyer up?

Typically, as a homicide investigator or any investigator, when a person runs out quickly right after somebody is missing or harmed and get an attorney, we always look at that person with some air of suspicion because that's a little bit unusual. And then why is it that he cannot remember something that just happened days ago? You know, he's got a point to Unico Parton. What allegedly happened when he got punched in the face? He was with Lauren. He was with Lauren. They were, again, going to some friend's apartment to continue their party before guys approached Corey and Lauren. And one of the gentlemen said to Lauren, hey, are you OK? You appear to be really drunk. And Corey says, look, dude, I've got this. I'm taking care of her. And they kind of got into a verbal altercation. Corey began to curse the guy out. And the guy punched Corey in the face. They stumbled out of the apartment

building, Corey and Lauren. And it's after that incident that Corey says he suffered from memory loss. Okay. So you, Michael Cervolo, this is very confusing fact scenario because they're going from place to place partying that night during the NBA playoffs. And they're with a group of people. What happens when she leaves the bar with Corey? So when she leaves the bar with Corey, they go back into Smallwood, the high rise residential building that she lived in. Right.

And they entered. They were up on the floor that Lauren lived on, waiting for the elevator to go back down. When the elevator door opens, Zach Oakes, accompanied by three other friends, were getting off the elevator. And one of the boys lived on the same floor, knew Lauren from school, and said, hey, are you okay? Because she was kind of leaning up against the wall and she wasn't intoxicated. And Corey Rossman answered for her and said, no, no, she's fine. She's leaving with me. It's okay. And the boys also said, face, and Corey went down. And the four boys ran out of the building through a stairway because they didn't want to get arrested for assault. With that, Corey left Smallwood with Lauren.

They were seen on surveillance camera on 10th Street, sitting on some steps, some concrete steps of another apartment complex right across the street from Smallwood. That's captured on camera. And then they proceed to walk up the alley where Lauren fell. They attempted, and Corey carried her up some steps in that building, and they knocked on the door of four girls that were at the pregame party with them a few hours earlier, and all of those girls were asleep and didn't answer the door. So we see on surveillance video Corey carrying her down the stairway back into the back alley to the area where she loses her her wallet and I.D. and her keys. And he carries her across a vacant lot, which is strewn with broken bricks and debris and she's barefoot. So he carries her,

you know, he drapes her arms across his shoulders and he carries her up to the apartment on 11th Street, which he shares with Mike Beth. Mike Beth was home after the pregame. He did not go out to Kilroy Sports. His claim is he had a paper due the next day, and he needed to work all night long on the paper. So Corey walks in with Lauren. She sits on the couch, and Corey is very very, very drunk and he starts to get sick. And Mike helps him up the stairway. It's a duplex up to his room.

Corey vomits on the stairway and then Mike helps him into his bed. He goes back downstairs and he wants to get rid of Lauren because he has to do his schoolwork. So he then brings Lauren next door to Jay Rosenbaum's house. And Jay Rosenbaum had attended a camp some time earlier with Lauren and knew her a lot better than the other boys. And Rosenbaum did claims. I've interviewed him on two separate occasions, claims he tried to have Lauren sleep on the couch, but she preferred to go home. So he let her go home and he went upstairs to the second floor balcony where he then claims he let he yells out to her. She's walking down the street towards College Avenue. Call me when you find your phone or text me when you find your phone.

And then he claims he sees in the shadows a second figure intersect with Lauren, but he's not quite certain if his mind is just, he wants to help so much that he sees this, or maybe it really didn't happen. And that's as much substance as we have to this. And that's the last we see of Lauren Spear. Michael, standing from that balcony, would he have been able to see her at that spot? He claims he saw her. Yes. Well, we do know what happened to her cell phone and keys. Take a listen to our cut 10 Fox News. Lauren Spear's cell phone and keys were recovered shortly after she was reported missing in the same neighborhood she was last seen. So that image from earlier in this story of her on that security camera, that's the last known image. And family members at a news conference today say when they take a look at it, they see much more.

I think if you look closely at the content in this picture, you will see who Lauren is. She's a happy, smiling, beautiful young lady on her way out for the evening to meet with friends. And Spirer's father believes that she is being held by a person or persons. Lauren Spirer has been missing now for 12 and a half days. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Michael Cervolo, where did Lauren's father get the idea that she was being held captive? Well, that was very, very early on. Before we, you know, that was 12 days into the investigation. And here we sit, you know, some almost 10 and a half years later.

We've learned a great deal through interviews and investigation that, yes, it is a possibility. That is one of the scenarios that some random person snatched her off the street. But the other severe scenarios still are very much in play. Jesse, Jesse Wolf is still not properly alibied as to his exact whereabouts. The boyfriend. Yes, at 4.15 in the morning. I've interviewed a number of his fraternity brothers and roommates. He was in a fraternity that was so rowdy they got thrown off campus.

So they lived in a number of small off-campus rental properties. Jesse lived with three other fellows, and he claims he was at another house down the block or a block or two away from his house, which was at 9th and Fess in in Bloomington watching the NBA playoffs and then when he went home he talked about it and they had a couple of beers with a roommate and the roommate puts it at about 2 15 the latest 2 30 in the morning and Lauren goes missing at 4.15.

So where was Jesse with 100% degree of certainty between 2.30 in the morning and 4.15? Still a huge question mark. And Jesse, you know, he's lawyered up. His father, Alan Wolf, runs interference for him. When we attempted to further interview Jesse Wolf. So that scenario, the jealous boyfriend finding out that Lauren is out with the Rosenbaum, Beth, and Corey Rossman crew, he may have either walked up there or taken his vehicle up there, knowing where they live.

It was only about four blocks from where he lived, and he might have been staking it out. When Lauren turned the corner, he might have said, get in the car. We have to talk. You know, that scenario is still very much in play who reported her missing michael uh jesse wolf reported later that afternoon yes friday afternoon jesse wolf went to the uh bloomington uh police station and reported her missing has jay rosenbaum the one who was with her, who last saw her,

he says, walking toward her apartment, he yells out, texting when you find your cell phone, has he taken a polygraph? Yes. Did he pass? I think he has. You know what? Law enforcement doesn't tell us everything. I interviewed him in the presence of his lawyer. His lawyer, a female

lawyer from Indianapolis, was on the line when I interviewed him. About a year and a half to two years later, I traveled to Michigan after he graduated, and I re-interviewed him in the presence of his mother. I asked him during that second interview, would you be willing at our expense to take a polygraph? We'll travel back to Michigan to conduct with our polygraphists to conduct the polygraph examination? Yes. Or if you would like to come to New York, we'll pay all the expenses, put you and your mom or your dad in a hotel in New York, we'll pay for everything. And would you do that? He responded affirmatively. Yes, I'll take another, I'll take a polygraph. What about Jesse Wolf, the boyfriend? Has he taken a polygraph?

Nancy, just let me finish on Rosenbaum. I flew back to New York and the next day I got a call from Rosenbaum's father saying that they had a family discussion and they now declined to take a polygraph. Okay. With respect to Jesse Wolf, I did not conduct a polygraph. I'm not certain. I know that he was questioned by the authorities at length, the authorities being the Bloomington Police Department. Right. I'm not sure if he was questioned by the FBI as well. They are reluctant to share. We don't know if either of them have ever taken a poly.

Guys, take a listen to the Bloomington police chief, Mike Dishoff. This is our cut 12. Over the course of the last 10 years, the Bloomington Police Department has received thousands of tips, interviewed hundreds of people, obtained a multitude of court orders and executed innumerable search warrants in Bloomington and elsewhere. BPD has been assisted from the very beginning by multiple law enforcement agencies, and to this day continue to work most closely with the FBI. Many times we are asked if Lauren's case is listed as a cold case. The answer to that is an unequivocal no. A cold case is one where no leads or information has come in and the case file sits dormant. That has never been the case

regarding Lauren and there has always been something to follow up on. In the last three to four years, for example, investigators have executed at least 10 search warrants and received approximately 800 tips. Of those tips, over 100 have been required additional follow-up once they were vetted and it-up once they were vetted and it was determined that they were not reports for information that had already been reported previously. Overall, since 2011, BPD has received nearly 3,600 tips with approximately 1,100 of those determined to be actionable and assigned to additional follow-up. You're hearing Bloomington Police Chief Mike Dykoff speaking. The tip line, 812-339-4477.

812-339-4477. And with every day that passes, the facts surrounding the disappearance of Lauren Spear become more murky. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.