Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Young mom doused with gas, set on fire by jealous ex.

Episode Date: November 11, 2019

A man douses his ex-girlfriend with gasoline, then sets her on fire in a restaurant parking lot. He then claims he meant to set himself on fire.Jessica Cameron lives to tell about the gruesome attack. Her testimony against Jonathan White helps the prosecution seal a guilty verdict.Joining Nancy Grace to discuss the case: Ashley Wilcott - Judge and trial attorney, www.ashleywilcott.com Steven Lampley- Former Detective, & Author of "Outside Your Door" Dr. Bethany Marshall- Psychoanalyst  Dr. Michelle Dupree- Medical Examiner & Author of “Homicide Investigation Field Guide” Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. You know, I've often tallied up in my mind there are seven ways to die. And when you ask people what would be the worst way to die, many people say drowning, many people say burning. I have personally dealt with victims of crime that were burned, and it is one of the most painful you could ever have. And to think that someone, a perpetrator, would do that to a victim, it's the worst pain, the worst death imaginable. I've spoken to, believe it or not, many women whose boyfriend, husband, lover, ex have set them on fire. I've noticed that so many

of them were set on fire or doused with accelerant in their face. I'm just a trial lawyer, but I find that to be extremely probative and extremely psychologically significant. Now I tell you such a story. This is Crime Stories. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The 28-year-old is charged with attempted murder, assault, arson, criminal possession of a weapon, among other charges. Both Cameron and White work at the Tim Hortons off Niagara Street in the city of Tonawanda, where the attack happened Monday afternoon. Police say White threw a flammable fluid on Cameron, then set her on fire and injured himself in the process. The maintenance worker outside did not see the incident occur, but saw

a fireball and heard screams. He rushed to extinguish Cameron. White, meanwhile, extinguished himself and then also tried to help his ex-girlfriend. Both He rushed to extinguish Cameron. White, meanwhile, extinguished himself and then also tried to help his ex-girlfriend. Both were rushed to ECMC with serious burns. You're hearing our friends at WKBW Buffalo. That was Nikki Dimitri. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Did a man pour gas on his ex-girlfriend, then set her on fire. It's almost too horrendous to even imagine. An all-star panel with me, Stephen Lampley, detective and author of Outside Your Door,

psychoanalyst joining me from L.A., Dr. Bethany Marshall, medical examiner out of South Carolina, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. With me, Dr. Michelle Dupree, judge, lawyer, Court TV anchor, Ashley Wilcott. But right now to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl McCollum, this is a particularly awful, awful way to kill or torture someone. Nancy, it is beyond just the imagination what this woman went through in the 78 seconds she was on fire.

So again, it's engulfed 30% of her body. Her skin is literally melting. Her hair is on fire. Her eyelashes are on fire. At the time of the incident, White, Jonathan White, age 28, asked to meet Jessica, Jessica Cameron, age 25, asked to meet her there at a Tim Hortons in Tawanda to discuss their relationship. They had been together seven and a half years. They have three children together and they grew apart for many reasons, including his jealousy, domestic abuse, and alcoholism. The two were in the middle of a very contentious custody battle over the children. She asked, are you going to hurt me, reports are that Cameron said at the time. You know, it's so intentional in my mind to Ashley Wilcott because to set someone on fire, you typically douse them with

an accelerant like gasoline, lighter fluid, any type of accelerant. And then you have to take the time to light a match and throw it on them. This is not the spur of a moment thing. He had to show up to that Tom Hortons. He had to show up with these things with him. That's right. So you do have to have the supplies, which means what in our legal system, premeditated. You have to have those items. You do actually, and it's my understanding, he did douse her with the accelerant and then light it. So I completely agree with you, Nancy. And to me, the horrificness of this crime, that means premeditated and it means more severe charges against this man. You are so right, Ashley Wolcott. Take a listen to

Spectrum News reporter Fadia Patterson. Family members of Jessica Cameron were in court facing her estranged boyfriend and father to their three children, 29-year-old Jonathan White. White is accused of setting 25-year-old Cameron on fire outside of the Niagara Street Tim Hortons in the city of Tonawanda, where they both worked. The first witness to the stand was Jessica's co-worker, Peter Thompson, who recalls hearing her screams at the dumpster pen, where prosecutors say White lured Jessica, poured gasoline over her head, and lit her on fire. I heard a blood-curdling scream and saw a ball of fire, Thompson told prosecutors.

During opening statements, state prosecutors said the estranged couple were together for seven years before they split. According to prosecutors, Jessica moving on to a new relationship was the possible motive for the attack on December 17th, 2018. Assistant District Attorney Rebecca Schnurrell said, for 78 seconds, her entire body was engulfed in flames. Jessica suffered third-degree burns all over her body. White was also injured in the attack, with burns still visible on his neck. You know, to Stephen Lampley, detective and author of Outside Your Door, I've actually seen this on several occasions and they're all horrific with life-changing scarring. Many of the women die because they just can't

survive that degree of burning across their body. And Steve Lampley, I've noticed it's always a man on a woman and it's always over some perceived jealousy or a breakup. Steve Lampley, I've noticed it's always a man on a woman, and it's always over some perceived jealousy or a breakup. Steve Lampley, have you ever seen this before? Nancy, it happens a lot, a lot more than people do realize. All I can say to this is, and I want to address your listeners, if you're in a relationship like this, get the H out of it. Don't become a statistic. Don't become a victim. But yes, Nancy, this happens quite often. Joining me right now, Dr. Michelle Dupree, medical examiner out of

South Carolina and author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Dr. Dupree, describe what this sort of attack with accelerant and fire does to a person's body and why people typically die after this type of attack this is really a horrendous attack a fire it is it's scary for one thing and it does so much damage it does tissue damage and of course um with clothing on the body and if there is an accelerant which usually there is um it just sits there and soaks in. And so the fire stays longer and longer and burns different layers of our skin. And the more layers of skin that are burned, of course, the more significant the damage and the harder it is to overcome that. We lose a lot of moisture, a lot of fluid from burn injuries. And that is one of the reasons that patients often do not recover

when so much of their body is attacked by fire. Well, that doesn't make sense to me, Dr. Dupree. You lose moisture, so you die? Yes, you do, because you are not able to keep your cells and your body functions hydrated. And so the body then begins to just simply shut down. Again, the more surface area that is injured will lead to that. Dr. Dupree, could you explain the difference between first, second, and third degree burns? Sure, Nancy. First degree burns are what we might see if we have a little bit of redness on our skin.

Maybe we touch something that's hot, but only for a moment. Second degree burns are when they actually begin to blister, and a little water blister will appear. Third-degree burns are much more significant. Third-degree burns are certainly rare. They go through more layers of the skin. And then there's actually something that we call fourth-degree burns, which is charring down to the bone. At third-degree burns, the nerve endings are actually nonexistent. And so third-degree burns are not painful because it has destroyed so much of that tissue. To Cheryl McCollum,

director of the Cold Case Research Institute, joining us. Cheryl, I'm sitting here racking my brain and every time there has been a fire or accelerant attack on a person, it's always domestic relations. Nancy, this is clearly a domestic violence situation. They had past violence in their relationship. There was self-harming in this relationship. I think the jealousy, the anger. Wait a minute. What do you mean by self-harming in this relationship?

Well, one report said that because of his anger and jealousy that he would self-harm as well. So, again, he had displayed to her more than one time that he would be violent toward her and himself. In this scene, though, it was a Monday, so he had all weekend to plan. He lured her over to a dumpster so that it could you know he could conceal what he was fixing to do that's the reason nobody witnessed it they just saw the flash of flames and I think it's very significant that he's burned on his back because he was running away and what he did first is extinguished himself you know what that is very probative burn on his back because he's running away explain

Cheryl McCollum well they said he had burns on his hands which a lot of times an arsonist will have because when they have the accelerant that they're about to toss somebody their hands get you know as well they're saturated with it so when he likes the match or the lighter or whatever he's using to throw on her he gets burned as well well then he's burned on his back so again that tells me this hero of course was running away to save himself he wasn't doing anything for her in those first most critical moments so it's not like he did it and then realized what he did

and tried to help her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, this is a whole other can of worms. It's a type of domestic abuse and violence that is actually rare, but we're hearing more and more and more about it every day. It's happening more and more often. And the women are dying. And I'm sitting here ruminating every time I've heard of an accelerant attack on someone, almost every time.

It's over a, quote, love relationship. It is always over a love relationship. Because remember, as we've been talking about, there is always pathological jealousy in these situations. And, you know, Nancy, shaming and humiliating is a core and central aspect of domestic abuse. Shaming one for their parenting, for how they look, for how they dress. Defacing a woman or making her unattractive is a heightened version of that. Where did he pour the accelerant?

Where did he light her on fire? Over her face and head. So if you think about the pathological jealousy, he's now made her unattractive to every other man. We don't like to think of it this way because it seems like such an outlier. Why would you burn somebody to make them unattractive to every other man. We don't like to think of it this way because it seems like such an outlier. Why would you burn somebody to make them unattractive? But think about it. When people pour acid or they've set somebody on fire, it is almost always from the neck up. That is where it starts. And I would imagine you use the word ruminating. I imagine he has

been ruminating on who's looking at her, who's she texting? Is there somebody else who thinks she's beautiful? Because this is another thing I see in my practice and domestic violence situations. The man always says, well, what if somebody thinks my wife is attractive? And I feel like saying, well, then that means you're a lucky man. But of course, that's not the issue. But the idea that the woman is even being admired by another individual is intolerable to them. What do you make of men or women who threaten to kill themselves or self-harm in order to get what they want in the relationship? Oh, that's a great question. So what happens is these people have what they call like a paranoid preoccupation that that other person's very presence on this world, in this world, on this

planet is doing them harm in some way, is negatively affecting their wellbeing. So they have this oscillation of hate between the other person and between themselves. And they start to say to themselves at an unconscious level, well, will I be less miserable if you're gone? Or will I be less miserable if I'm gone? I'll take your life. No, I'll take my life. But the hatred oscillates back and forth and the homicidal instinct oscillates back and forth between self and other. That's something that's a very important concept in my field. But of course, the desire to harm and hurt the other person almost always wins out. Let's start at the beginning with me, Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter.

Start at the beginning, Dave Mack, because I find it very interesting, and I'm trying to figure out on my own, what does it mean that he would do this in a public setting? It's kind of like a Starbucks. It's a coffee shop. Tim Hortons. Explain, Dave Mack. Well, you know, Nancy, this couple had a long relationship that dated back to her being in high school, okay? They had four children together. The first one, they gave up for adoption, and they had the other three, but over the years, his abuse, his alcohol use and abuse had taken its toll, and when she finally had her fill, she was putting distance between the two of them and had actually moved out and moved in with her mother out of fear for the way

this man was. She felt like she was safe that night at work because he said he was hungry and he just wanted to talk. She thought she was safe because it was in a public place. It was in a parking lot. It was where they worked. I mean, she thought everything was on her side. And a lot has been said about it. She said, are you going to hurt me and he said yes but she still she said she still thought she was safe until everything happened what does that mean you know uh i first met cheryl mccollum um i recall it was a regarding a domestic abuse initiative that we were both working on to help battered women. But to you, Cheryl McCollum, how often is it that when domestic violence erupts and someone is killed or there's an attempted murder, all the friends say, well, she was always afraid of him.

She told us this was going to happen one day. I always hear that. Nancy, on some level, her gut told her this was different because she asked him, are you going to hurt me? So she knew something about it was different. Maybe he already had something in his hand. Maybe it's because he wanted to get her over behind the dumpsters. But she knew in her gut. Now, here's the thing. She still probably believes he surely is not going to do this in public. We both work here.

Everybody knows him. I just walked out the meeting. He can't be that stupid. So she's probably playing that in her head where she's talking herself out of what she probably instinctively knows. This man's already hurt her. She's already done it multiple times. So she's trying to get away from him. She's already in a new relationship, but still on some level she knew. You know what? I think you're right too. Ashley Wilcott, judge and trial lawyer. You can find her at ashleywilcott.com or on Court TV where she is an anchor. Ashley Wilcott, she knew something was wrong. She noticed an apple juice container sitting by the dumpster.

And if he went to that extent to put the accelerant, which is gasoline or kerosene, it could be lighter fluid. It could be nail polish remover, any type of an accelerant. For him to bring it there in an apple juice container, how much planning and premeditation is that? Yeah, I agree with you completely. So she survived, but look at the amount of premeditation. I have to add this, Nancy. Here's the problem with individuals like this and the threats he made and the violence and the stalking her, my words, because he has completely obsessed himself with this person. The problem I have is that it doesn't matter if it's a public place,

right? It doesn't, he went behind a dumpster. He was going to do this regardless of where it was, how visible it was, whether it was behind the dumpster, in front of the dumpster, at the workplace or not. He made up his mind. This is what he was going to do. He doesn't care how public the place is or not, which is why victims of violence of this type, unfortunately, in domestic violence, we're at such risk of this type of criminal. Two special guests with me, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst out of LA. He had about one to two inches of gasoline in an apple juice container and set her on fire. What does this attack, this type of attack, tell us about the mindset of Jonathan White. Well, you've heard the phrase burn, baby, burn.

I mean, this speaks to me of rage that is so severe that he is really completely unable to self-regulate. I think he is living in a constant state of rejection. He probably was in a state of rejection even when she was sleeping in his bed every night because some people get stuck in the feelings of rejection and then they can never take in anything good or positive about the other person. But of course, his rejection was at a very pathological level. It tells me that he was fixated on her in a paranoid way, that he did not want to think about anybody else as a potential love partner. I'm sure he was probably cheating on her too, because that's a form of domestic abuse. I think you're cheating on me, so I'm going to cheat on you. He did it at work. So he did it

in a place where she gained satisfaction and autonomy. Remember, another aspect of domestic abuse is either withholding money or preventing the victim from working. So you have a constellation of all of these things that are building up. And I think the final thing is that even in so-called crimes of passion, homicide is contemplated at an unconscious level, if not a conscious. It never just, nobody ever snaps, Nancy. But this was contemplated at a conscious level. He, he really wanted her disfigured and or worse gone. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

This is what else we know. We are learning that they apparently struggled with the bottle. She tried to take it out of his hand. He pulls out a lighter and then sets her on fire. It's just overwhelming, the pain, the pain that he inflicted on her. I don't even know if she had a chance to even fight back, to try to get out of her clothes. I mean, to Dave Mack, what more do we know? What we know, Nancy, is that the surveillance video at Tim Hortons actually shows her ripping off her clothing. It also shows something else. It shows that Jonathan White put out his own flames because he caught on fire as well.

He used snow and other stuff to try to put the flames out on himself. And then she was fully engulfed, you know, 30% of her body. And she's ripping off clothes and everything else. Her own testimony, she said that she couldn't see anything but flames and the intense pain. She said the only thing she could hear was what sounded like the crackling of wood burning on a fire. Oh, my stars. Take a listen to this. Now, DA John Flynn wouldn't comment on a motive. While I always make it a point to say that Mr. White is innocent until proven guilty,

I obviously believe he's guilty right now or I wouldn't have arraigned him and I will do whatever I can to get this poor girl justice. Cameron's family tells us she's been put into a medically induced coma to help her heal. She did undergo surgery today. Now there will be a vigil for her tomorrow night at 6 30 p.m. at Clinton Park. What do we know about why someone will be put into a medically induced coma? To Dr. Michelle Dupree, South Carolina medical examiner, author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide, why a medically induced coma, Michelle? So that that person's body will take the time to heal and rest. In doing that, your body doesn't have to work as hard and it's

able to actually heal. I want to go to Stephen Lampley, detective, author of Outside Your Door on Amazon. Stephen Lampley, you heard the part about surveillance video. What more do you think will be used to prove the case? Well, actually, I don't know that they really need any more. You've got video is the ultimate, usually. If you've got a good video, which're switched, they do. I have not seen it myself. I don't know that you read a whole lot more, Nancy, on this case. You were just hearing WKBW Buffalo reporter Nikki Dimitri. Now take a listen to WIVB4 Marissa Perlman.

Meanwhile, Cameron is alive, but every day is a battle. Family members and the community have been rallying behind her, posting updates on Facebook. The district attorney calls this an unfortunate incident. She fortunately survived, but like I said, she's going to have a significant disfigurement. I don't want to get into specifics about what her medical condition is, but she's going to be in bad shape, and she's going to live with this for the rest of her life. But we've learned Cameron's injuries are severe. Her mother says she's in a medically induced coma to help control her pain. She has no skin on much of her upper body, including her face and her hands.

Cameron has already undergone four surgeries in just the past two weeks. Doctors put in a trach on Christmas Eve. This gives her a stable airway during recovery. THE MOTHER OF THE CHILD IS IN THE CUSTOMER UNIT. THE MOTHER HAS ALREADY UNDERGONE FOUR SURGERIES IN JUST THE PAST TWO WEEKS. DOCTORS PUT IN A TRAKE ON CHRISTMAS EVE. THIS GIVES HER A STABLE AIRWAY

DURING RECOVERY AND THE UPCOMING SURGERIES SHE WILL HAVE TO FACE. THIS POOR VICTIM IS ALSO STILL AT ECMC. SHE IS IN THE BURN UNIT STILL AND SHE HAS HAD MULTIPLE SURGERIES SO FAR AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE SURGERIES. so far and will continue to have surgeries. She's going to survive, but she's going to be in bad shape. Her mother tells us Cameron could be in the burn unit for at least nine months. You're

hearing the district attorney John Flynn speaking to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, forensics expert. Cheryl McCollum described the injuries that she sustained. Nancy, she is burned about her face and her neck and her chest and her hands. Her hands were so severely burned that her fingers had to be amputated. She had to learn to walk again, to talk again, to open her mouth and her eyes again because her skin was so just destroyed around those areas. I mean, she's had 12 surgeries to date, and what she has had to go through over the course of 10 months has been just medieval. Let me ask you this to Dr. Michelle Dupree. Why would her fingers have to be amputated?

Well, typically, they're obviously at the periphery or the ends of our body, and they'll be the ones last in line to get the nutrients and the hydration that's needed. And so they're also very small. And so because they are, fire consumes them a lot easier than it would consume larger parts of our body. You know, we heard the district attorney talking about motive. Remember, motive is not necessary in any case. The state isn't required to go into the defendant's mind and figure out their thinking. Take a listen to WKBW Jeff Rusak. This dumpster behind a Tonawanda Tim Hortons is where police believe a custody dispute turned into attempted murder. At 3.30 Monday afternoon, a 28-year-old man texted his 25-year-old girlfriend, who works at this Tim Hortons off of Niagara Street. He asked her to come to the dumpsters to talk.

She went into the corral area where the two dumpsters were and he doused her with some type of a flammable liquid. Police say he sparked a lighter. Both caught on fire. Police and someone with Tim Hortons were able to put the fire out with fire extinguishers. The pair have two children, a four and two-year-old. Police were called to resolve a custody dispute between the two this past week. Evidently, the boyfriend was agitated enough to take it to this extreme. Both are at the ECMC burn unit. The city of Tonawanda police say they haven't seen anything quite like this before. We've all gone on domestics multiple times, repeat calls, repeat domestics, you know, where both parties can get really agitated and a

lot of times there's an arrest but whatever stemmed from this one this person really took it to the extreme as for the two children involved in this custody dispute according to police they're spending the night at a relative's house right now she's in a medically induced coma because they want her to heal and because of the pain and I guess we're talking years. I mean, I don't know how long in the hospital. It's going to be months, maybe a year. Susan Holler-Harslack is a friend of the Cameron family. She says the 25-year-old burn victim, Jessica, is fighting for her life and her recovery is going to be a long

road. Once encouragement coming to Jessica, you know, she's a joyous person. She was always smiling, always there for her three boys. Jessica's been at ECMC since Monday where she is in critical condition. It was around 3 30 Monday afternoon when police say she was doused in flammable liquid by her boyfriend and set on fire. Police say the crime, which they're calling domestic, took place during Jessica's shift at Tim Hortons on Niagara Street. I'm thankful that those children, it didn't happen in a home where the children were. You know, they were spared. You're hearing WKBW, Hannah Buehler. Yes, it didn't happen where the children were.

They were spared. But they know what happened to mommy. Take a listen again to Hannah Buehler. It's exactly the violent situation family friends say Jessica was trying to escape from last week when she packed up her three young children and left the home they shared with the suspect. But because she left in a hurry, family friends say her three children are without much. The family needs clothing, diapers, and gift cards. They had to leave everything behind, and Jessica's mom now has custody.

Right now there's, you know, no income. You know, Jessica works full time, mom of three boys. Donations from the community have been coming in in droves, and the family is very grateful for the support, they tell me. As for the suspect, police say he accidentally set himself on fire in the process, and he is recovering tonight. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, Cheryl McCollum, director of Cold Case Research Institute,

you and I did a lot of work with battered women in inner city Atlanta. Have you noticed that so many violent attacks and murders occur when the woman's trying to finally leave? You hear here that Jessica left him just one week before this attack. She left in a hurry in order to try to avoid violence and she packed hardly anything just trying to get away. Nancy, that's one of the saddest things about when a woman tries to leave a battered relationship. She's in the most danger once she leaves. Once she leaves that home, once she formally leaves him, once she gets the protective order, that's when she's in the most danger. There's no question. Well, yeah, and Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, anchor at Court TV. What about it, Ashley? Listen, I don't know if I can say this on air and you can believe me,

but what a P-O-you-know-what-S. Because I can't even imagine someone choosing to do this, to disfigure, yes, attempted murder, but also to disfigure her. Think about her children, the mother they knew. They will no longer have the mother they knew. She looks different. She's lost her fingers. She had to relearn how to do all these things. Thank goodness she's recovered.

But Nancy, he has taken away from her so much of herself. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, she's trying to leave the week before she hastily grabbed stuff and left. She didn't even take much trying to, quote, avoid violence. Well, and then this. Why is it? Why is this the danger time when you're finally trying to leave and you're doing it? You're getting away. Because as the woman is about to leave, she has independence in the world. It sparks all kinds of negative fantasies in the man. As I was saying earlier, what if she meets somebody? What if somebody thinks she's beautiful? What if she has an affair? What if she has sexual interest in somebody? And these feelings are intolerable. And usually the man is tightly controlling the woman because he home, he becomes dysregulated. He cannot control himself on multiple levels. We know he was an alcoholic.

Perhaps he was drinking. We know he was a cutter of some sort because when they went to their high school prom, he cut himself and rubbed the blood all over her. But I want to say something about children. Whoa, whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa. What? At the high school, the prom? He cuts himself and rubs blood on her?

Yes. Oh. Yeah. So he was doing that even when they were in high school? What a manipulator. You know, she should have left him right then. Your BF boyfriend cuts himself and rubs the blood on you? Man, all he'd see of me is elbows and tail hole I'd be way gone

so why would she stay Dr. Bethany and I'm not putting blame on her that's the age-old question Cheryl isn't it true Ashley people say why did she stay they always what about it Bethany okay well go ahead Cheryl jump in Cheryl I'm gonna say to say, people always say, why did she say, why did she say? Women often confuse, when I talk to domestic violence victims, they love him. They really, truly are in love with this man. She's had seven years with him. She's grown up with him. They have four children together.

She, on some level, again, believes she can love him through whatever these demons are. She's wrong, of course, but that's what she believes. And this person, the best predictor of future, you know, crimes is going to be his past behavior. She should have known. Her mama should have known. Family violence abuse, domestic abuse hotline, toll free 877-890-7788. Ashley Wilcott, judge, trial lawyer, Court TV anchor. You and I have children. We've been ingrained, it's ingrained in us to believe love conquers all. Love conquers all. You know what? What about the other love? The love of your children? If you love your children, you don't want them growing up in this. You've got to break away. And she did break away.

She left. She did everything right. She packed hardly anything. She beat a hasty retreat. She got out of there, Ash. And that's the worst part. That's the tragedy of it all. She was protecting her children. She picked her children finally over him doing all of the right things, taking all of the right steps. And yet this happened and never blame the victim in domestic violence. We all know that. But I am going to say this, and that is something one of the other panelists said, trust your gut. So if you have been a victim of domestic violence and that person who committed that violence against you wants to meet with you, wants to see you, wants to make it right. And I'll meet you in a public place and it'll be OK. And we have kids together. Resist. Do whatever you have to to resist, because these individuals will continue to commit offenses of violence. You know, that's a whole other catamaran. Circling back to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst joining us out of LA, it's one thing for an adult to say, okay, yeah, I can take your crap, but my children, I'm out of here. I'm not going to let them witness this. And she did it. She left. Jessica Cameron, just 25

years old, summoned the strength to finally leave. And that is when he doused her with gasoline, hidden in an apple juice container, and set her on fire. She goes up in front of that jury and testifies with no fingers. Dr. Bethany, explain. And oh, Bethany, listen to this. This all reportedly happened at Tim Horton's on Niagara Street where Cameron works. Her co-workers, who also know this suspect, are shocked. He actually does like our truck. So, you know, a short shift or whatever. But when you have a conversation with him, you would have never thought anything of this. But when you have a conversation with him, you would have never thought anything of this. We had no idea. We knew that they were having a little problems or whatever, but we had no idea the severity of it. To you, Dr. Bethany Marshall, in so many cases, you know that there are red flags.

Well, here's the deal, Nancy. Women are as confused often when they first leave as they are when they are in the domestic violence situation. And when they have children, they feel that they have to maintain contact with the abuser for the sake of the children. I see this all the time. And I will say to the woman, you left, you had the courage, you have children, you never, ever, ever have to talk to him again. And they'll say, well, what about the kids? And I'm talk to him again. And they'll say, well, what about the kids? And I'm being a bad mother. And I will say, no, you never have to talk to or see them again. There is an app and it's called Family Wizard. I don't know if you've heard about it, but it is an app through which you can communicate about your children with an ex-partner or abuser. The Family Wizard

has a tone meter, and it's very sensitive. So if the abuser starts to become terse, angry, abusive, it will alert you, but it will also document all of that. It also puts the abuser on the alert that everything he's putting or saying into that app could be turned over to the police. So women, if you have left, pretend this person is gone and dead and that they are no longer on the face of the planet or they are dead to you. Never, ever talk with them. Never meet with them. Your children need you to themselves. To our friend Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute. Cheryl, this woman, just 25, gets up somehow, medical miracle, after being in a medically induced coma,

12 surgeries, and she testifies in front of the jury with no fingers. All her fingers now amputated. Tell me how powerful her testimony is. It was everything. Not only did she take the stand with all the courage in the world, she articulated that day beautifully. She talked about exactly what happened. And she, again, painted this picture for the jury. There was no way they could miss the gasoline in. He chose apple juice. He did that because from a distance, it would look like apple juice and not gasoline. Everything he did was to con her, mislead her in order to kill her. That's what his intent was. He failed by the grace of God. But this woman, Nancy, again, has a two-year-old that she's not going to be able to teach to tie their shoes. She's not going to be able to mother them the same way that she could

have. Every time she goes out in public, every time she meets someone new, her disfigurement is going to be what leads everything in her life now. So what he has taken from her, she has a life sentence. To Dave Mack, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, where does the case stand now? Well, actually, we'll get sentencing just after the first of the year. I think January 4th, 2020 is the schedule. And he's looking at possibly 25 years in prison. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

Goodbye, friend. You're listening to an iHeart Podcast.