Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Young mom of 3 girls found dead on Princess Cruise

Episode Date: May 29, 2018

Lawyers for a man accused of killing his wife during a cruise ship vacation argue in new court papers that it was not premeditated murder. Kenneth Manzanares is accused of killing his wife, Kristy, aboard the “Emerald Princess" last year. Nancy Grace looks at the case with prosecutor Wendy Patrick, defense lawyer Troy Slaten, private investigator Vincent Hill, and Chuck Roberts. Next, Nancy is joined by psychologist Dr. Pat Saunders, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, and  reporter John Lemley to dig into the murder charges against a man who allegedly drive his car into a restaurant to kill his daughter and daughter in law. Finally, Grace discusses the drug K2 that can turn users into zombies and worse. She consults addiction expert Dr. William Morrone. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're listening to an iHeart Podcast. Did you know a recent law can leave your personal data exposed online for anybody to find? If you've turned on the news lately, you know the internet has created a dangerous new world. It's time you take back the power by using a new website called Truthfinder. Have you been issued a speeding ticket? Received a lien from the IRS? Did you forget about an embarrassing social media profile? That info may already be online. Truthfinder can help you find it. Truthfinder searches millions of public records,

assembling the data together in one report. Members get unlimited searches, so you can also look up those close to you and make sure they're not hiding something. Visit truthfinder.com slash Nancy. Enter your own name. Get started. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph, Channel 132. The whole family gets together, including extended family members and relatives, to go on an awesome cruise. A cruise that sets out to Alaska. And the theme is a murder mystery cruise, and the whole family is getting into it when suddenly it turns all too real. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is Crime Stories. I'm talking about a cruise line, a luxury cruise line, and a happy family celebrating an anniversary. It's the Princess Cruise Line, known for its luxurious staterooms and over-the-top meals. But this Alaskan cruise turns deadly when a mom of three is found brutally bludgeoned dead. What happened? Joining me, Chuck Roberts,

Crime Stories investigative reporter. Chuck, let's start at the beginning. Tell me about it. Well, they leave Seattle, bound for the coast of Alaska. And two days later, around nine o'clock, a loud fight is heard from room D-726. In fact, so loud that people showering two decks above could hear the argument. Finally, somebody intervenes, knocks on the door, and stumbles across a murder. And apparently,

Christy Manzanares has been bludgeoned several times. There's blood everywhere in the room. And her husband, Kenneth, according to the witness, is trying to drag her out to the bathroom. Whoa, wait a minute. Hold on. Joining me in addition to Chuck Roberts is Vincent Hill, private investigator, Troy Slayton, high profile L.A. defense lawyer, Dr. Carol Lieberman, L.A. forensic psychiatrist and author of Lions, Tigers, and Terrorists, Oh My! on Amazon. Jackie Howard here in the studio and Alan Duke joining me from L.A. Troy Slayton, did you hear that? The husband is seen dragging the wife, Christy Manzanares, by her ankles. They're both covered in blood. She's dead. Dragging her to try and throw her off the balcony. I think that's a bit of a stretch.

We don't know why he was trying to move the body to say that he was trying to toss her overboard. We have no information relating to that. In fact, by all accounts, they had no history of domestic violence at all. There was no history. Okay, that's a thought. That is a thought. Alan Duke, you speak for every man today. Can you think of another reason he's dragging his wife's bloody body toward the balcony? Out of their stateroom and toward a balcony?

No, it's not a good look, especially when she ends up dead. Witnesses say the husband grabbed Christy's body by the ankles and, quote, drags her toward the balcony. And then the witness intervenes, grabbing another part of her body to pull her back into the cabin. And when asked by witnesses, what happened? He responds, and I quote, wait for it. she wouldn't stop laughing at me. Dr. Carol Lieberman, I'd be dead 500 times over if I was slaughtered every time I laughed at my husband. That's the one thing that's kept us together all these years is we laugh all the time. Yes, laughter does help a relationship very much.

You know, he apparently was, the husband was apparently very belligerent at dinner, and he may well have been drinking, you know, that probably added to it. But it does when a wife, especially there were high school sweethearts, when a wife, when a woman, well, a wife says, I want to get a divorce, if that was like a surprise, or we don't know, maybe there was domestic violence going on before this, and this was just sort of the culmination of it. But when a man hears that a woman is going to abandon him, you know, especially if it's his wife or a relationship that's been a long time, that can trigger a violent reactions. I don't really think, in my world,

claiming that what the wife said causes a murder. I mean, that was pounded into me when I volunteered at the Battered Women's Center for so many years on the hotline. Because you say something or laugh or whatever, serve tacos versus enchiladas, is not a reason for a beating, a battery, much less a murder. Troy Slayton is looking bad for him right now.

Take a listen to what passengers say there on the Princess Cruise. Whoever was talking was pretty scared because their voice was shaking. Ruby Plata was with her husband when she heard an announcement over the intercom. They said it was a domestic altercation. It became apparent last night that something serious had happened, but we didn't know how serious. One of the list from that room came running out calling for help, that her parents had been in a fight. She sounded pretty desperate, but the crew came up as quickly as they could. Well, at first, the crew

actually thought it was part of a staged murder mystery shenanigan because that evening, Vincent Hill, a private investigator, they were having a murder mystery motif. So when the crew and passengers saw a bloody body lying there, at first they thought it was a gag, Vincent. Yeah, Nancy, that begs the question, was this perfectly planned on his part to make it look like something so that he possibly could have gotten away with this? The cruise ship hosting a murder mystery themed dinner the night of the incident. And again, at first, they all thought that the fight and the murder was fake, a hoax of some sort. Everyone was confused about what had really happened. The cruise ship was immediately diverted to Juneau.

Federal investigators board the Emerald Princess, one of the three and the top of the line of the Princess cruise ships. This is what I've learned. I've researched it over and over. This occurred on the high seas, and there is a whole body of admiralty or maritime law. This occurred about seven miles away from Forrester Island, Alaska. But Alaska law does not apply that far out in the water.

Federal law is still in U.S. jurisdiction, so it falls under U.S. federal law. Now, Alaska has a death penalty, as does the federal government. Troy Slayton, this is going to be governed by U.S. federal law. they have already stated that they are not seeking the death penalty in this case, although that is in their toolbox. They don't think that it's appropriate in this case. And if the case was so cut and dry, as you and the others would like to make it seem, then why would the defense in this case be filing what's called a bill of particulars saying that the indictment doesn't give enough information that the government isn't turning over enough information for the defense to be able to know what it is that they have to defend against why because defense lawyers file every motion

known to man uh to delay the trial because every day of delay is a better shot at a not guilty that's why but i can tell you this their community back home shocked listen to nicole beckstrom for us it's a weekend for them it's the rest of their lives to find out that it was her was shocking. That is Nicole Beckstrom, a former neighbor, shocked. This was supposed to be a happy and festive trip to celebrate an anniversary with extended family. Instead, it went horribly sideways. A little girl comes running from the room, calling out for help that her parents had been in an argument. The little child desperate it was their little girl crying and sobbing they found her over her mom's body if you see a shot of christy

manzanera she's absolutely gorgeous long brunette hair big brown eyes she looks like she's a workout enthusiast a successful realtor at Sotheby's you can find videos of her that I looked at online where she's posting of her selling homes and describing homes a lot of photos with her family and she's out on a luxury cruise you'd never think of something like this. You know, Alan, you know, I've taken the children, David and I, on two Disney cruises. And they were so awesome. And you get into the spirit of the cruise. We did everything there was to do.

And it's like one big happy family. Everybody is on the ship together you're having fun you all have dinner together you see the same people at the pools and i remember there was this one thing it was called the um well the twins call it the octonaut or something like that it was the aqua duck get it disney daffy duck who's the other one daffy duck and um yeah right no no there's the there's a happy duck in the angry duck no alan who is it you mean the his uncle there's daffy duck and donald duck anyway this thing was called the Aqua Duck. Okay. Yes. And I, most people saw me totally soaking wet at all times because we rode the Aqua Duck around the top of that Disney cruise ship. I know 200 times over and over and over. It's like a flume ride. Okay. So you're with this group of people for four, seven, 10 days, and then to suddenly see a bloody body. Alan, I think that's why people were so shocked. It is a shocking thing.

Like I say, not a good look. Wait, that's your comment. It's a shocking thing. Chuck Roberts, Crime Stories investigative reporter, please help Alan. Yeah, it's more than shocking. It was unsettling in many respects. In fact, the entire 3,500 people had to stay on board for several days. The FBI interviewed more than 200 people. So it certainly ended the vibe on that ship. I'm not worried about the vibe. What is wrong with you guys? We're talking about a murdered mom, three children, three daughters, one daughter hovering over her mother's body. I don't give a flying fig if people had to sit on the boat for two days to get interviewed. All right.

I agree. That was directed at you. That anger was directed at you, Chuck Roberts, by the way. All right. I understood. Tell me what more do we know i'll try to vent at jackie for a few moments the discovery motion filed by kenneth montaneris's attorney is a little interesting rich curtner the attorney said that the attack involved only bare hands and that was not premeditated though he is charged with first degree murder which would imply there was the state or the government has premeditation evidence.

He demanded to know why the theory of the crime has not been revealed, and that request was denied. Apparently, the husband, 39 years old, Kenneth Manzanares, no criminal record, filed for bankruptcy in 2010. He was a bail bondsman, an assistant manager at a Walgreens, and an insurance company employee. Apparently, she was the breadwinner in the family. She was a very successful real estate agent. So that's the background of the couple. But there was no evidence no no record of domestic violence and he has no criminal record in the state of utah i didn't know the part about him being a

bell bondsman and that she was the breadwinner hold on i hear vincent hill chomping at the bit jump in vincent one of the things that's really important to remember everyone keeps saying this husband had no criminal history but i've worked enough domestic violence cases to know those go unreported. So just because it looked good on the outside to everyone doesn't mean it was good on the inside. And I just find it hard to believe that he went directly to murder and there wasn't some type of history there between that couple. You know, Dr. Carol Lieberman, forensic psychiatrist and author, Dr. Carol, and I agree with both my parents working, and that was the dynamic, and that was just the norm for me. But apparently, in some marriages or relationships, the role reversal, so to speak,

is really too much for them to take, specifically the man. When the wife ends up being the major breadwinner, I mean, we were so happy that my mom and dad were both working to make ends meet. We never even thought twice about it and my my grandmother's work my grandmother worked on a farm and stood up all day long in a factory making tile mosaics those black and white tile mosaics to make a living and her mother worked i mean it i i'm surprised in this day and age that that what hurts the man's feelings that his wife for for a minute is making more money than him? Really? Well, even though you would think that we're all so modern now and this kind of thing shouldn't matter,

it really does. It's sort of ingrained, and it's emasculating. It's, you know, humiliating, even though, you know, the man certainly doesn't show it like he may, you know, make jokes about, oh, I'm so lucky I have, you know, my wife is making a fortune or whatever. But really it's emasculating. And there are so many, of course, one big question is, was there life insurance? Was he hoping to continue to have her money after she died, after he killed her, and not have to have this feeling of her being the breadwinner.

You know what, Alan Duke, can I ask you on a personal note, do you find that emasculating when you're married? And let's just say this isn't your first time around the block. But, I mean, when your wife works and makes a good living, I mean, is that emasculating to you? Or do you just like, whoa, there's $100 in my checking on my checking account no no it doesn't emasculate me but just as long as she still cooks dinner for me i'm happy well you know what there's always such a thing as a can opener so power to her well you know what um i guess i'm just so blessed vincent hill troy slate and

chuck roberts i'm not going to even give you a chance to chime in on expecting your mate to cook dinner because Jack and I are laughing into our fists in here. I'm single. Hey, ladies, did you hear that? Vincent Hill, who is quite dashing, I might add, is single. Okay, you put that out there. Troy Slayton, married or single? I am married. married okay so you're

off the market let's keep it that way chuck roberts married single uh formerly married still single okay so all right just don't tell your prospective brides that you expect them to cook dinner that's not really going to go over very well. What I'm saying is I'm just blessed that David loved me when I didn't have two pennies to rub together and was working two night jobs. And he always acts happily surprised when I cook dinner. You know, it just never gets old. So I'm blessed. I just wish so much that these children in the Manzanera's case had not seen this, that it didn't happen because this has forever changed their lives. Right now, the perp, the husband, the dad is in custody as we await his trial.

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when you can do the job yourself? Everybody you know has something to hide. Now you can root out the most dangerous people before you become the next victim. It's not just used to bust bad people. Truthfinder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, even people who served with them in the military. It's never been so easy to find the truth. Go to truthfinder.com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started. Sitting down for a nice Sunday brunch, everything goes sideways when a former cop and father intentionally rams his car into a crowded restaurant, killing his 26-year-old daughter, who was also a sheriff's deputy, and his son's wife in the middle of a restaurant full of patrons enjoying brunch.

What happened? I'm talking about Roger Glenn Self in Bessemer City, North Carolina, who plows his vehicle into a restaurant, killing his own daughter and daughter-in-law. It's unfathomable why this happened, what occurred, but of course, why it happened is something we may never know. Joining me right now, John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter, along with renowned psychologist Dr. Patricia Saunders out of New York, and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University. intentionally rams his car into the surf and turf lounge in Bessemer City. That's just on the edge of Charlotte, killing his own daughter and his daughter-in-law, Amanda Self. What happened?

Well, Nancy, as you said, all of this takes place. It's actually just west of Charlotte in Gaston County, North Carolina. It's one of those southern places where suburbs sort of butt up against rural areas. For one moment, you're right in the middle of a bunch of houses. The next, you see farmland and cows. Now, many there in Gaston County know Roger Self as this faithful, church-going family man. He owned a successful private investigation and loss management company, Southeastern Loss Management. Hold on, hold on. John Lindley, take a listen to what this busboy working at the surfing turf has

to say. There was blood on the floor. The guy I helped call out, he was all over him. I ran back there and I saw the car. I collected myself, ran back there and tried to help in any way I could. John Lumi, let me understand the sequence of events. Witnesses, to my understanding, witnesses at the restaurant claim that Self brings his family into the restaurant around noon. Everybody's coming for brunch and he has them seated. Then he gets up to go to get something from his car or to go to his car for some reason. So he intentionally places them, gets them seated at a particular table, and then he goes out to his car. Correct. Family members were eating appetizers. He excuses himself, slips out of the restaurant at some point, a family member actually through a window can see

his white Jeep circling the parking lot. And in a flash, that Jeep is coming toward them, driving through the restaurant's front door at a high rate of speed into the area where he knew his family was seated. Okay. Wow. So Roger Self gets his family seated there at the surf and turf around noon for brunch. He gets up and goes out to his white SUV in the parking lot. Then, according to Limley, he goes around and around gaining speed and then at a very high rate of speed, crashes through the dining room, through the wall, where the family is sitting. Tables, chairs, cups, everything flying.

It was like a train had come in. Amanda Self, the daughter-in-law's husband, also harmed Josh Self. That would have been his son. Their 13-year-old daughter harmed. Roger Self's wife, Diane, also injured. Two dead. Now, what is at the heart of this? Was there some sort of domestic problem going on?

Was he trying to kill his wife and ends up killing his own daughter hold on guys let's go straight out and hear a news conference happening we're putting this puzzle together one step at a time information and evidence gathered from a preliminary standpoint at this point of the investigation indicates that it is abundantly clear that this was not an accident, that this is something that Mr. Self had intentionally done. Whoa. Now, this is what we know. Caitlin Self had arranged this after-church brunch and had invited her fiancé and his parents as well. She was hoping her dad would enjoy being with everyone with the soon-to-be extended family.

They had all ordered drinks and appetizers and were talking and laughing after being seated at a table beside the window. This is clearly, Dr. Patricia Saunders joining me, psychologist out of New York, clearly so premeditated. He goes in and has his family seated at a table by the window. Dr. Patricia Saunders joining me, psychologist out of New York, clearly so premeditated. He goes in and has his family seated at a table by the window he's about to plow through. Well, it certainly is planned. This is an intentional act. So, Jessica Morgan, why is it being speculated that this was intentional? What do you see in the facts that suggest intentional? I mean, to me, it's written all over it. He brings his family in.

He sits them by the window. After they order appetizers and drinks, they all just come from church. He goes out to the car so he can rev the engine. To me, that's very clearly intentional. Yeah, we know that the family had a clear line of sight of him because one of the family members reports seeing this guy at Warbit in the parking lot out there as he's kind of circling around. It almost reminds me of a shark. He's, you know, what he knows is this, is that there is just a very thin veil separating the leading edge

of that motor vehicle from the family that's on the other side. And you said a mouthful, Nancy, when you talked about the describe the scene. We've got essentially pieces of shrapnel in the form of cups and saucers and salt shakers, busted furniture, the glass, wood that's traveling through the air. This is a major blunt force related death that has just driven this family down in terror. And, you know, I would be really curious to find out what the hostess says that seated the family. Did he specifically, and this is what the police are going to ask, did he specifically request a seat by the window? Did he specifically, and this is what the police are going to ask, did he specifically

request a seat by the window? And this goes to this idea of premeditation possibly leading up to this fatal event. You know, if he was depressed, that's certainly no defense. As a matter of fact, it indicates he, many indications he may have been depressed because his daughter booked a table for her father to, quote, cheer him up before he plows into them in a car rampage, killing two. This guy, a former cop, drives his car through a restaurant, killing his own daughter and daughter-in-law. He has just, just made a court appearance. Listen. You're here today for a first appearance. And the first thing I need to advise you is that, of course, any statement that you make

may be used against you. There are three things that we need to do today. First of all, inform you of your charges. Mr. Bell has just informed you that you're charged with two counts of first-degree murder, the maximum penalty of which is death. The second thing we need to do is a counsel for you. Are you going to represent yourself? Are you going to hire a lawyer? Or would you like me to consider appointing counsel for you? I had before me a waiver of counsel, but did you complete an affidavit? Well, right before I, today I made the decision to waive counsel, and at this time I would choose to let the court appoint an attorney.

You would like to apply for a public attorney? is there an affidavit no there's an affidavit right there i don't think he was able to sign it uh before he came out here no i couldn't get to it that is self in a court appearance that has just happened and at that court appearance there were two full rows seated in the courtroom of self family and friends were they there to support him or to seek justice over the two dead family members now the family had all gotten seated by the window and began noticing self's car in the parking lot is limly reported circling. And the next thing you know, he crashes through the window. I'm looking at photos of the scene right now after Roger Self plows his white SUV through the wall of the restaurant at a high rate of speed, smashing through the dining room right where the family was sitting. To Dr. Patricia Saunders, psychologist, joining me out of New York.

You know, you and I have covered so many cases where mothers kill their children to, quote, let them have a better life so they don't suffer on earth. Sometimes they kill themselves and take their children with them. I don't get the feeling he was trying to give them a better life in this case, Dr. Saunders. Nor do I. This doesn't seem to fit the profile of a murder-suicide. It's a suicide because the pastor reported that 10 weeks ago he asked his son to take his gun to Roseland. He might kill himself.

There's something fishy about this. I don't think we know enough at this point if he was, in fact, suffering from a psychotic depression with delusions, or this is a Hail Mary insanity, because that's what credit to it. Well, he seemed to be of sound mind and body when he goes into the restaurant, although the family says they thought he just got up and was walking around because he was, quote, anxious. Now, what is the answer? Nancy, Roger Self's brother is speaking out for the family, speaking about forgiveness. He says Roger started showing

signs of mental illness about six months ago. Take a listen to this. What would you like for people to know about your brother Roger right now? That Roger is a man of integrity. He's a man of character. He's a godly man and he's a man of integrity. He's a man of character. He's a godly man. And he's a man that loved. He didn't meet a stranger, and he would give you the shirt off his back. Just this week, he was wanting to help a family that he knew was homeless. And worried about everything going on in his own life.

He wanted to help somebody who was homeless. And so that's the kind me and my brother was. What do you blame this for what happened here? I believe there's an evil in this world. I believe that evil somehow intervened here and got the temporary consequences that it wanted, but it's not gonna get the, it's not gonna win. And that's what we believe.

He understood what the charges was. I don't know that he really understood, but he knew that Kay didn't make it. He knew that Amanda didn't make it. He knew that Amanda didn't make it. And he understood there were going to be consequences for that. But the first thing that he said, he said, that was crazy. He said, but how's Diane? How's Josh? How's Caleb and Kendall and Taylor?

And he said, just please make sure they're taken care of and he said don't don't forget I'm here and so like I said he understood but just looking at him he was there wasn't nothing there if you know you both know Roger it was the charismatic person that roger was it was an empty blank and uh hard you spoke to me before um um about forgiveness and no need to forgive there are a lot of people out there who don't understand that concept it's foreign and they will ask the question how can you say that what do you say I think for a lot there are going to have to be forgiveness I mean they're gonna have to find it themselves

to forgive Roger but I think from the family standpoint and from the faith standpoint with Roger, happening to Roger. I've tried to let the calmness of God direct my thoughts, and I don't want to go down that road, so I don't need to forgive him because I know that it wasn't him. People might not understand. I might not understand that, Ken.

That's what Roger would want to convey to the world, to forgive him, that it was evil what he'd done, and just want him to get the proper help and be able to hopefully someday be restored back to a way that he could live. That's going to be difficult for Roger. But for the rest of us, we have to live together and eat together. And so the only way you can go through life is forgiving people and forgiving yourself for things that's gone wrong in your life or

you've done and uh because you you want to live and even more this weekend uh understand what it means to live every day in a way that your family appreciates who you are and you tell them you love them and uh you tell them how much it means to you, and you don't take that few moments you get with them for granted. Well, he had been a youth counselor for quite some time, owned his own business, and this seemed as if everything was fine. How is that going to equal a mental defect defense? Depression will not get you out of a double murder.

A lot of people are depressed. A lot of people. A lot of people have reason to be depressed. But that is not a mental defense. You have to be insane to the point where you do not know right from wrong at the time of the incident. It is called the Old McNaughton Test, and it's from our common law. What is common law? Common law is the law we brought over from Great Britain when this country began.

Statutory law is law that has been passed by the legislature since then, and case law is law that has developed over time from cases heard in the American justice system. Insanity is defined across our country as not knowing right from wrong at the time of the incident. There are other issues such as psychotic delusion, like in Son of Sam, where Berkowitz claimed a dog told him to kill. He was having delusions. Of course, that was a lie. But that's an example of delusions. There are many different types of mental defects that can be argued at trial. But this is what Roger Self's own pastor says.

Listen. What happened yesterday, not a testimony of Roger Self, but a testimony of mental illness that absolutely overtook him. When a person has legitimate mental illness, they can't just stop thinking that way. The computer doesn't process that way anymore. They've got to have treatment to get the brain functioning properly again. And so to those family that are going through this, you need to take it very serious. They may not do something as horrifying as Roger has done, but why would you want your family living in that situation? I don't know. What's happening now, John Lemley?

What do we know? Right now, he is being held. There is a fairly large bond in place, and his attorney team is trying their best to take the next step and put his case together. They're doing their prep at the moment. We wait as justice unfolds while this family attends to burying and mourning two of their own. A sudden outbreak of real-life zombies. This is not a movie script or a streaming video show that you may watch. This is for real. These people seemingly are walking dead, zombie-like.

But it's no voodoo curse. It's curse all right, and it's called K2. Listen. Look at these dudes. They can't even... Look at this. That man over here is twisted. And my other man over here is laid the f*** out.

Oh s***. Look over here. Look at this. Oh hell no. This is crazy. The cops got this one. Look, young dude too bro. Look at that. That's crazy. Tell your kids, please, tell your family. If they on that K2, stay off of that, man. This is, yo, please, y'all, this is not happening. Look at this. Look at this. Twisted. Twisted, twisted, twisted, twisted.

Murder on Broadway. We have another case. This is ongoing. This is ongoing all day. You are hearing local residents as they are looking at real-life zombies, or seemingly so. It's people that are strung out on K2. It's amazing. The K2 zombies back in force.

Over two dozen people overdosed on a dangerous synthetic marijuana in the very same Bedford neighborhood. 25 people with negative reactions to the substance we believe is K2, all the ODs happening apparently outside of one deli, the Big Boy Deli, also known as Zombieland Deli, and this is why. The sight of dozens of people stumbling, gasping, vomiting, falling down, collapsing. Had the neighbors calling 911 and describing scenes that looked like they were from The Walking Dead, the hit series. It happens over and over and over. What's going on? Listen.

In the last probably 72 hours, I had at least 40 cases of k2 overdose. Historically in Minnesota when we have seen spikes since this first appeared in about 2009 they usually last for days to weeks and tend to be concentrated in one local geographic area. There are untold number of effects that are very very different than typical marijuana intoxication or overdose with anything that's labeled as K2. We're talking about K2, a dangerous, dangerous synthetic marijuana. now renowned medical examiner out of Madison Heights, Dr. William Maroney, author of a brand new book on Amazon, American Narcan. Dr. Maroney, thanks for being with us. What does it mean when we hear K2 turns you into a zombie? If you want to say that a zombie is somebody who's not going to respond appropriately, it hijacks the brain. It changes their perception. So maybe they

can't talk. Maybe they stare off. And the zombie part is that they may sit still and look like they're dead. They may fall down and look like they're dead, but their eyes are still moving and they're still breathing. So yes, it can make people look like zombies. They may lose all the ability to stand or walk. And that puts them in that kind of state. It was a bizarre scene, Dr. Maroney. Dozens of people with blank stares stumbling around the same neighborhood. In fact, just a few moments ago, I was playing for you, someone live streaming it on Facebook. It seemed like a nightmare. It was a nightmare, but a nightmare of drug abuse, synthetic marijuana, turning people into zombies. Emergency workers sent 33 people to local hospitals, all of them under the influence of K2. What exactly is K2, Dr. Maroney? What's important is to understand that sometimes chemists

or illegal drug cartels think they can copy nature and they're trying to copy the active ingredient in marijuana known as tetrahydrocannabinol that doesn't make it safe and it also doesn't make it reliable or predictable. And whereas we think that most people who smoke or consume cannabis will relax, chill out, sit in a chair, get some munchies. The, the drugs that they've invented don't necessarily reflect those same kind of clinical actions. And they freak people out. People pass out. They have seizures.

And one of the dangerous things is, at least when you think about opioids or heroin, we have reversal agents. We don't have any such reversal agents for people that overdose on these synthetic marijuanas and K2s. None. We're at the hands of unknown chemistries of illegal drug lords. And what he's saying, I think, is that with opioids, there are certain reversal medications like naloxone and others, which he details in his book, American Narcan. But with this, it's designed to mimic marijuana. It's a man-made drug, but it's got far more powerful effects.

It puts you in a whole different world, a delusional world. Your head is spinning it's mind altering and the way it's made k2 it's made by spraying chemicals legal chemicals onto plants onto the marijuana plants then it's ground up and smoke users hallucinate their heart rate goes up they have seizures confusion and what we are finding now is that it's growing nationwide the cdc has reported over 3 500 now nearly 4 000 calls of synthetic marijuana use to poison centers in just five months. That's a 229% jump from the year before. But dopers are always one step ahead of law enforcement. As soon as cops outlaw one recipe for K2,

they come up with another recipe, making it virtually impossible for the ingredients to be outlawed. Again, what it is is you take marijuana plants and you spray chemicals onto the plants. Then people smoke it or ingest it, and it ruins your mind. Highly addictive, right, Dr. Maroney? Well, if it doesn't kill you you these people's brains are hijacked and guess what they want to do they want to go back and do it again um because there's this huge unnatural gap or spiritual deficit in a large number of our youth and we're looking to fill it with chemicals and they want to

go back and try it again and as matter of fact as crazy as this sounds if there's some information that somebody has has some k2 or some spice at a store or a dealer is selling k2 or spice at a street corner and people find out that people are overdosing on the stuff the dealer's selling, they'll skip buying it in the gas station and they'll go buy it at the dealer who's almost killing people. Doesn't make any sense, but those brains are hijacked. K2 zombie to zombie danger and it's not just in the neighborhood we were talking about it's fake weed k2 spice synthetic marijuana it's a new drug and a lot of people especially teens think fake weed is okay because it's cheap you can get it at gas stations. Baked weed is not safe or legal. And don't be fooled by its synthetic weed.

Right now we're talking about K2, which is totally illegal. Dr. Maroney, another question. Is it true K2 is especially dangerous because the dopers keep changing the formula. Chemically, we cannot predict how the illegal chemists change during the manufacturing process these molecules. So you cannot have a finite list and say, oh, this is illegal, this is illegal, this is illegal, because they keep changing the chemical molecule. And we're playing catch up. We're chasing the tail of the dog. The best advice you can give is to stay away from this stuff because we really don't have reversal agents.

We really don't have protocols. And these things can stop you from breathing and after that you die and if they don't stop you from breathing you can have seizures and that'll end up giving you permanent brain damage after you soil on yourself and poop in your pants and pee all over yourself and then somebody will say wow that was kind of strong i like that i want to do it again witnesses say they had no idea what was happening in the last days. One guy was standing outside a coffee shop on Broadway in Myrtle, and he noticed people started falling to the ground.

This guy, Mr. Rodriguez, a janitor, is describing how the people would take just a couple of puffs, and bam, they dropped to the ground right there, strewn on the sidewalk. Then another, then another. That the EMTs came out and were there late into the night trying to save people. We believe these people sick and OD'd on a synthetic drug known as K2. Unconscious, struggling to breathe, vomiting. They were all giving Naloxone, that's an opioid overdose reversal drug, and taking to the hospital. What will happen next, we don't know what long-term effect it's going to have on them. To Dr. Patricia Saunders joining us

out of New York. Dr. Saunders, Dr. Moroney was talking about the use of drugs to fill some void in your life. But I think there's more. I agree with that. But I also think that sometimes people try a drug just for the kick or because of peer pressure. Then they're suddenly addicted to it. Well, that's true.

There are lots of reasons why people try drugs, but those are the two biggest, just because their buddy, their peer group is trying it and it's supposed to be a it is not, as Dr. Moroney was explaining. In fact, drug companies have made synthetic marijuana and never put it into production because it was 85 times more powerful than marijuana. One of the things it does, it wipes out memory. So people forget that they had seizures or were in a psychotic state, so they do it again. Synthetic weed turning people into K2 zombies. Take a listen to this. You will not sell this garbage in our community.

You will not make another dime. We will be out here as much time as possible until you are closed down. I've been seeing the gentleman just tumbled over right across the street from the cops. So apparently they feel that this is the same situation that's going on with the drug family that's coming around. Three years ago when it was legal, we were selling it. But we stopped. After all that happened in 2016, we stopped selling it. They go get it. I don't know where they selling it. But we stopped. After all that happened in 2016, we stopped selling it. They go get it.

I don't know where they get it. They come here and sell it. That's not my business. It's the police department's business to get rid of them. And we call the police every day. It's becoming like an epidemic in the community, and we wanted to come to a stop. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off.

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