Crime Stories with Nancy Grace - Young Yale grad student gunned down just after marriage proposal. HAS PERP FLED U.S.?

Episode Date: April 13, 2021

The U.S. Marshals Service has issued an international warrant for a suspect in the murder of a young Yale graduate student who was gunned down shortly after he became engaged. MIT researcher Qinxuan Pan is a suspect in the shooting death of Yale graduate student Kevin Jiang, who was found fatally shot on a New Haven street on February 6. Pan has been at large since police initially named him a person of interest in the homicide investigation. On February 27, New Haven police obtained a warrant for Pan’s arrest on suspicion of murder. Also in February, authorities said they believed Pan, who lives in Massachusetts, had traveled to Georgia, but a new report indicates investigators now believe he may have left the country.Joining Nancy Grace today: Wendy Patrick - California prosecutor, author “Red Flags” www.wendypatrickphd.com 'Today with Dr. Wendy' on KCBQ in San Diego Dr. Jorey Krawczyn- Police Psychologist, Adjunct Faculty with Saint Leo University; Research Consultant with Blue Wall Institute, Author: Operation S.O.S. - Practical Recommendations to Help “Stop Officer Suicide” (July 2021) bw-institute.com Irv Brandt - (Retired) US Marshals Service International Investigations Branch, Author: "GOING SOLO: The Gospel of Luke" and "SOLO JOURNEY: Buddha Knights." Both are available on Amazon. www.irvbrandt.com @JackSoloAuthor  Dr. Tim Gallagher - Medical Examiner State of Florida www.pathcaremed.com Alexis Tereszcuk - CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories dot Com, Twitter: @swimmie2009  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. So many of us spend our lives sinking all of our love, all of our energy, all of our emotions, all of our money for sure into raising our children, sacrificing, trying to do what we think is best, agonizing over the best thing. Well, what if you save and you scrape your whole life to get your son or daughter into an Ivy League school and they finally make it, not just for the undergrad, for a graduate degree. I mean, where I came from on a red dirt road in middle Georgia, a graduate degree from an Ivy League school. I mean, that's the golden ticket, right? Not in this case. This young grad student shot dead in the shadows of Yale University. And guess what else?

Newsflash. His killer has fled and still has not been apprehended. And I want to know why. How did this guy slip through our fingers? I heard a gunshot, a woman scream, several shots after that. A neighbor recalls the harrowing details of what occurred at the corner of Lawrence and Nicole Street at 8.30 Saturday night. Waited about a minute, came out and saw the body laying there. The deceased has been identified as 26-year-old Kevin Jiang of West Haven. Yale University confirms he was a graduate student in their School of Environment.

He was a member of the Class of 2022. Multiple witnesses confirm hearing between three to six shots. I'm still shaking up about it. All night, we were all in disbelief. The entire Yale community and many groups and organizations Jung was a part of are carrying that disbelief as well. You know, you're hearing our friend Dave Puglisi at Fox 61, and I'm just trying to imagine what that ear witness, as we call them in court, has gone through since. Hearing the shot, not really knowing what it was exactly, but now

putting two and two together to realize he heard the shot that claimed the life of a young grad student. It just, when you hear the whole story about how this guy had sacrificed to go to Yale, he had just gotten engaged to his sweetheart, The wedding was set. And now this. Let me introduce you an all-star panel to make sense of it and why the purported shooter has slipped through our fingers with me. Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags. You can find her at WendyPatrickPhD.com. She's a host of Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ San Diego, Dr. Jory Krause, a police psychologist, faculty, St. Leo University, consultant with the Blue Wall Institute,

author of Operation SOS, Practical Recommendations to Help Stop Officer Suicide. Irv Brandt, former U.S. Marshal Service in International Investigations. Wow, do we need him today? Author of Going Solo, The Gospel of Luke and Solo Journey, Buddha Nights on Amazon. You can find him

at Irv Brandt, B-R-A-N-D-T dot com. Dr. Tim Gallagher, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida. You know, you hear of medical examiners in this county or that county. He has been named the medical examiner for Florida and no lack of business there. You can find him at PathCareMed.com, but first to Alexis Tereschuk, CrimeOnline.com investigative reporter, also with LeadStories.com.

Alexis, I remember exactly when this happened, and I couldn't believe on that snowy day, this guy, a grad student, just scrubbed in sunshine, never done anything wrong, helping the environment, had been in the military, never complained, even, I think, moved his mom to his location when they couldn't support two households to economize, to save money so he could go to Yale, just gets engaged, and then, bam, he's dead. And it was the dead of winter. So it was a super snowy night. So if you can imagine, you know, when it has snowed and it's so quiet outside.

It is a Saturday night. It's not late, 830 at night. All of a sudden, shots ring out in the same part. Shots. You know, you think the first one, you think, oh, no, you know, a car backfired or something. Maybe teenagers are sitting on fireworks. But then there were rapid shots very quickly after that. And the neighbors rushed, scared, of course.

You don't want to run outside of your house and be shot by bullets. But then you hear something and you worry about somebody. So the neighbors ran out and see this man's body lying there in the street. And he, you were right, he was everything. He took care of his mom. He had her move all the way across the country in with him.

He was a graduate student at Yale. He was about, he's going to graduate next year. He had just gotten engaged the week before. Proposed to his girlfriend, puts the pictures on Facebook. He's down on one knee. She says yes. He was a member of his church, very in his church the minister said that he was always there always involved and with the fiancee too and everybody was stunned by this how could

this crime have happened in yeah hey alexis at the beginning because he was so involved i believe was trinity baptist church and he was shot just not too far at all from the church. He had actually worked in the soup kitchen and gone out into neighborhoods to feed the homeless. And at first, of course, the homeless were blamed, and people thought somehow it's connected to that. But that's not what I think at all. I want to go to Irv Brandt, former U.S. Marshal Service. Irv, when I hear a gunshot, I know it's a gunshot because I've heard so many. There's a certain crack to it that's different from a firework or a car backfiring. But I think a lot of people hear it and they want to believe it's a firework or a car backfiring. They don't really,

their mind doesn't, can't wrap around the fact that it's a gunshot. That's correct. I mean, most people will try to make something up in their mind because gunshots are scary. They'll say it's a car backfire, it's a firework, it's trash cans banging down. That's not uncommon at all. And you know what I think about that too, Dr. Jory Crawson, a psychologist, faculty at St. Leo, I think that it's not really in most people's realm of normality, of normalcy. You don't expect to hear gunshots firing out,

ringing out on a snowy evening right outside your door. So your mind goes to what is normal for you. You quickly will try to associate that sound, but once the reality sets in that that's a gunshot, then the survival mode starts to kick in. And you notice there was a time delay. This guy waited before he investigated it further. And then he saw the body.

You know, what a nightmare. I remember one of the first things. I moved Dr. Jory Cross into L.A., took my whole family with me. My husband went along with it to compete in Dancing with the Stars. We went into this little bitty apartment. I mean really small. The first thing I did, I walked through it to find out where the twins, my children, were going to sleep. I looked out the window, and there was a dead body.

Right out the window. And in L.A. At a red light. But it was on the grass. And they were putting up yellow crime scene tape. And the children were like, hey, let's go look at the other bedroom. You don't expect to see that. These people did not expect to hear gunshots fired ringing out right outside their door. And they go out and there is a dead body.

Now, I was used to dead bodies from being in the DA's office, but it's a shock to most people to look out and see a dead body. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We were talking about the death of a 26-year-old grad student at Yale. His mom and he had scraped for years to get him into Yale grad school and afford it. I mean, it's over 50, 60, between 50 and 60 grand a year to what? Get shot down out in the street. Take a listen to this. Our friends at Fox 61. Police say they received multiple 911 calls reporting gunfire and a person shot in the area of Nash Street and Lawrence Street. The victim, 26-year-old Kevin Jiang. He was shot multiple times and died on scene, according to police.

Shot multiple times and died on scene, according to police. Shot multiple times. Now, right there to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags on Amazon, host of Today with Dr. Wendy, KCBQ, San Diego. Right there, Wendy. Right there. You got intent. You know intent, premeditation, intent to do the crime can be formed in the blink of an eye. The time it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger. But multiple gunshots tells me a lot, Wendy Patrick. That's right, Nancy. Multiple gunshots, especially close together, almost speaks to some sort of rage. Not necessarily road rage. It doesn't really seem like you can put those two things together just yet. gunshots, especially close together, almost speaks to some sort of rage, not necessarily

road rage. It doesn't really seem like you can put those two things together just yet. But guns are loud and somebody willing to actually shoot somebody multiple times, or obviously there's going to be people hearing it. And just by the nature of the fact that so many people called 911, you know, that in and of itself is a sign of the times that so many people are actually these earwitnesses thought, I think I did hear a gunshot and make this call, really speaks to the emotion that was likely involved, which might make you believe these two people knew each other. And now the bitter pill, the sour icing on top of the poisonous cake? Has the shooter escaped the country, sneaking out right under our noses? Guys, how did the victim, Kevin Zhang, get lured out of his car?

Take a listen to our friend Tony Aiello, CBS2. A sense of shock and sadness has settled on the Yale University community after the Saturday night shooting death of grad student Kevin Gian. I don't have a memory of him where he wasn't smiling and happy. And even if you didn't agree with all of his views, he was more than happy to be your best friend. 8.30 Saturday night, residents in the East Rock neighborhood heard the distinct sound of gunfire. One man spoke to me off camera. I heard like around seven rapid gunshots. Like I turned the lights off because I was scared. Police say someone shot Jiang multiple times. He was found

near his car, which had rear end damage. One possible motive police are exploring, violent escalation after a road rage incident. We're exploring every possibility, including whether or not there was an accident that precipitated this incident, whether or not it was a road rage. We do have very specific leads that we're exploring, but we're not ruling anything out at this time. Well, there's a lead right there. The paint from the victim's car has got to be on the front of somebody else's car because there was a rear ender. And according to what we know, the victim's car had not been damaged before this incident. Was it an accident or was it an intentional rear ending to get Kevin out of his car and then shoot him dead, leaving him there to bleed out. Let me go to Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida.

You can find him at PathCareMed.com. Dr. Gallagher shot multiple times. How long would it take him to lie there in the snow on the street and bleed out? Oh, good question. It would depend on where he was shot. Should he have been shot in the heart, it would probably take less than 30 seconds for him to bleed out. If he was shot in the lungs, probably about a minute, minute and a half, more than likely. Or if he was shot in the brain, if it was a headshot, he would have died instantly.

So it would depend on where those bullets struck him, what part of the body was bleeding, and then the caliber of the weapon. So, but for the most part, you know, probably not more than a minute or so. You know, it may be a minute, but lying there in the snow, knowing you're bleeding out dead? One week after you proposed marriage, he had to think about his mother back in their apartment, all she had sacrificed to help him, his future bride, his dreams.

What flashed through his mind as he lay there dying? Take a listen to this. I'll always remember him as being a very just welcoming and wholesome individual. And he was very proud to be a part of the Yale community. Jiang was a grad student at the Yale School of Environment, the school holding a virtual vigil for Jiang Monday night. His parents both in attendance.

He gave me a lot of joy. He's a very thoughtful, warm boy, taking care of me, and I miss him. Like you all said, he's a very, very charming, very friendly, very open. Zhang served in the U.S. Army National Guard. During the vigil, those who served beside him sharing memories. Everyone who met him said that he was so, so they called him Jiggity Zhang because he was so energetic all the time. Zhang was a few days away from celebrating his 27th birthday, and he proposed to his fiancee, Zion Perry, just last week. Perry sharing a statement reading in part, Kevin was and is a gift from God. Life is so

precious and short and I am so thankful that God brought us together. You're hearing our friends at Fox 61 there. You know, Alexis Teresha, you have a little boy, and I bet you already have a college fund, right? Yes. You know it, day one. I remember us talking to the twins. You know, when I was pregnant, I tried to set up a college fund for them. I mean, you spend your whole life trying to just advance them a little bit further, help them through their life. And, Alexis, I remember when I got into Mercer Law School, my father cried.

And then when I got into NYU, it was like we couldn't believe it. And I'm just thinking about what this mom went through to help her son, and of course he was helping her live. And then this. There's so many forensic issues to Irv Brandt, U.S. Marshal Service. I want to talk to you about the fact that the paint from the back of his car had to be on another vehicle somewhere. The bullets that were fired with a multiple gunshot wound homicide, there has to be, in a quick getaway,

there has to be bullets, cartridge cases from which we can get tool mark data, which will tell us everything we need to know about the gun. Then the bullets and the cartridges need to be run through NISI, the National Integrated Ballistics Tool Marking. I mean, there's so much evidence to gain from the scene, Irv. Oh, that's correct, Nancy. Bullet casings, the bullets themselves, the rifling on the bullets, the paint from the cars, all these things factor in. And that's where law enforcement develops their leads. That will eventually lead to his capture and of course absolutely in the court case at the beginning we're thinking that this was a road rage incident but take a listen to our cut number four tony

jersey with fox kevin's young's facebook page biography was poignant life is a gift i am so thankful for so the l community is grieving right now this is a gift. I am so thankful for. So the L community is grieving right now. This is a loss of an extraordinary young man at approximately 8 30 PM on Saturday. Officers responded after receiving numerous 911 calls of gunshots which occurred here in the area of Lawrence and nickel streets in New Haven. Kevin's young pronounced dead on scene. His identity was confirmed to be a resident of West Haven, 26 years old, and he was a graduate student attending the Yale School of Environment.

Police won't say much about the case, including why Jiang, who had just proposed to his fiancée a week before he was killed, was in the East Rock neighborhood. We have developed information suggesting that this incident may not have been an actual random act, that he in fact was targeted. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. You know, I always say to you, Alexis Torres-Chuck, CrimeOnline.com, that there is no coincidence in criminal law. I was immediately struck with the fact that he gets engaged and it gets posted on Facebook. Then within days, he's gunned down dead in a seemingly random attack that turns out to be not so random. Exactly.

It was not just a coincidence. This wasn't, well, it doesn't seem right now like it was just road rage. It seems like there was another man. The man who shot him allegedly knew his fiance. This is a man named Kim Shun Pan. He attended MIT. Jang Pan. He attended MIT. Jang's fiance also attended MIT. There were pictures of them that surfaced up together just a few years ago at a dance.

So he knew his fiance. He is the man who has been identified as a suspect. The thing was, there was almost like a cat and mouse game in New Haven. Police had heard that this man was at the Arby's, which is a fast food restaurant. So they go to the Arby's. They're searching all around the Arby's. They had metal detectors. I think they were looking for the gun there.

Then Pan had checked into a hotel. So they went to the hotel. The hotel manager said, you know, we don't even think that he spent the night here. He checked in. They traced it through his credit card. Also, then they realized that he had been going to car dealerships trying to buy cars, but was very suspect. He wanted, you know, to take the cars and have his mechanic check that, which is fine, but the police just thought it was strange. And then they announced that he was suspected in stealing several cars. So he had this whole time in New Haven where the police were just about to get him and missed him.

They were just really one step behind him in this investigation. But he has a solid connection to the victim and the victim's fiance, which is so scary and so sad to think that perhaps somebody killed this guy. And let me make it very clear. There was no suggestion that the victim's fiance was having any secret romance with the shooter. If anything, I think the shooter was obsessed with her and angered by the engagement. Take a listen to our new cut 13, our friends at WFSB 3. The crime has shocked the Yale community and the East Rock neighborhood where the shooting happened. This is 29-year-old Ching-Chuan Pan, an MIT graduate who is wanted for questioning in the killing of a Yale grad student, Kevin Jong.

New Haven police say Saturday night, the 26-year-old student was shot multiple times near the corner of Lawrence and Nash following a car crash. Police say Pan, who still lives in the Boston area, has a warrant out for his arrest for allegedly stealing a car in Massachusetts. Why he came to Connecticut is still being investigated, but New Haven police say Pond was found by North Haven police after the homicide Saturday night. They are not saying why they were called, but did say police were not aware of Pond's possible connection to the shooting. We're piecing all of those things together. We're exploring, you know, every aspect of his travel to and from and since.

So this guy, Pond, comes from Boston in what we think may be a stolen car, finds the victim, 26-year-old Kevin Zhang, just got engaged, grad student, and guns him down. Now, let me understand something, Alexis Tereshchuk. Police actually had Pond in their hands and let him go? They did. They had not connected him to the murder yet. He was, they had, I believe because of one of the cars, maybe it was broken down or something. They were talking with him, but they didn't know that he was the suspect.

You know, Irv Brandt, former U.S. Marshal Service International Investigations, does that just break your heart and make you angry at the same time without a doubt uh to have the suspect to be talking to the suspect then to later learn that was your suspect uh is crushing and you know that's how so many perps are caught i mean uh think about the oklahoma city bombing timothy mcveigh he got pulled over because i think it was a turn signal on the back of his car. And he had just bombed the Murrah building. So here this guy gets pulled over for something to do with his car and they let him go. What do we know about Pond? Take a listen to our cut 14.

This is Will Reed at ABC. Listen. This morning, an urgent manhunt for a person of interest in the fatal shooting of Yale graduate student Kevin Jung. U.S. Marshals now joining the search for this man, 29 year old King Swan Pond, offering a five thousand dollar reward for information leading to his location and arrest. Police say Pond was last seen yesterday driving family members near Atlanta. According to family, Pond was carrying a black backpack and acting strange. Mr. Pond should be considered armed and dangerous. Extreme caution should be used if you come in contact with this individual. Jung was shot multiple times and found lying outside of his car Saturday night in New Haven, Connecticut. Investigators say Pond was in the

area at the time of the shooting. Jung, a 26-year-old Army veteran, was recently engaged to be married. His fiance graduated from MIT just last year. Pon is currently enrolled at MIT as a grad student. Authorities have not yet confirmed if Pon knows the victim or his fiance. We are exploring every angle related to this investigation and related to every person involved, the victim, his fiance, his extended family,

and to include the suspect or the person of interest that we've identified here before you. Guys, it's as clear as a nose on your face. This guy's in a stolen car, comes all the way from Boston, and now we know exactly how cops came in contact with Pond, but let him go. Take a listen to Tony Terzi, Fox 61. Sources have told Fox 61 over the past few days that North Haven police, when they encountered Pond within an hour after that murder last Saturday night, because he was stuck on some train tracks at the Sims metal business, the sources have told me that North Haven police could have had him in custody. They said it was clear that the man was under the influence of alcohol and that North Haven police didn't run the plates on the car.

Well, Chief Kevin Glenn told me today he's the North Haven chief. That's not true. There was no reason to run a breathalyzer, a field sobriety test, and we did check his license. We did run the plates on the car, and it wasn't until several hours later that the car came back stolen. You know what? I find that really hard to believe that the car had not been reported stolen. You know, that's what those devices are in police cars. They are constantly running tags and APB all points bulletins, BOLOs be on the lookouts, and it comes over their radio. Constantly, their police being radio.

All you have to do, correct me if I'm wrong, help me out, Wendy Patchett, California prosecutor. You enter the plates in, and then it pops back, stolen, not stolen. Yeah, that's one of the questions that is outstanding with cases like this, where you do have somebody in your clutches, in your grasp. There would have been a reason to detain this person, which probably would have led to an arrest, but that wasn't done. Now, was there a problem with the equipment? You know, Nancy, you and I have seen that in so many cases where there's a malfunction. I'm trying to give everybody the benefit of the doubt because you would expect that would come back. Wendy, I know you're a big radio star now, but if you'll recall, a reasonable doubt is a doubt founded in reason, not a possible doubt, such as little green men from Mars beamed down and did the shooting. Yeah, that's possible the police band radio didn't work and malfunction on that particular

moment when the guy's straddling some train tracks yeah i'm not buying that hard to find out it's hard to think of another reason why they wouldn't have had those results right away because normally that's exactly what happens you're behind somebody and you run a plate and you get a result and that's why many people are pulled over to begin with. Bottom line, he slips away, not only from the North Haven police who are trying to play a game of CYA, but this guy's fled the country, according on information we have received. crime stories with nancy grace how in the hay did the shooter of this 26 year old grad student just engaged worked his whole life to get into g grad school. How has the shooter slipped away? That's the big question. Take a listen to Hour Cut 22.

This is Erica Arias, Fox 61. U.S. Marshals have now secured an international warrant for the man wanted for the death of a Yale grad student. Kevin Jang was killed two months ago back on February 6th. And now that we know, U.S. Marshals have secured an Interpol red notice for this man here, 29-year-old Qin Xuan Pan. Now, he initially was just a person of interest in the case, but he is now a suspect and we're told he will be charged with murder once he's tracked down. It's unclear if investigators are sure he's out of the country or where he may be heading. He is from China. Pond was last seen less than a week after Jung's death in Georgia.

So he makes it out of the Yale University campus area. He makes it all the way to Atlanta without being detected. And now God only knows where. So Irv Brandt, former u.s marshal service international investigations how the hay did he get out of the area and make it all the way to atlanta the marshal service uh was obviously tracking him and they had him information that he was in brookhaven which is metro Metro Atlanta, the Cobb County. I know this because I began my law enforcement career as an Atlanta police officer,

so I'm familiar with that area. Brookhaven, Fulton County, near the swanky shopping area of Lenox and Phipps Plaza, where a lot of rich people live. There, it's about a 30 30 minute drive to the airport. You can get there by a MARTA train. All he had to do was get to Atlanta with a fake ID and hop on a train to Hartsfield international. And he's gone.

Doesn't even need a fake ID. I mean, he can have the passport in his, in his own name. They don't check you outbound. They only run you when you come into the country, not when you're leaving the country. That's a good point. So he could have left for anywhere in the world.

That's why the Marshal Service issued a red notice through Interpol. It'll go out to all 194 member countries. Well, why wasn't it flagged at the airport? I mean, he didn't walk to China. He had to get out on a plane. Well, I mean, why do I get

checked? Everything but a cavity search. And with my 89-year-old mother, they check her out like she's an international terrorist in a wheelchair. But this guy, wanted by Interpol, gets through and gets on a plane? That's because when they check you, they don't run you through NCIC for warrants when you're leaving the country they only do that, they run the manifest

when a plane is coming from outside of the country into our country and that's when they run everyone on the manifest through CECS and NCIC to see if they're legally entering the country,

if they're wanted for any crimes in this country or outside of this country. But when you leave this country, they don't do that. You could have multiple murder warrants from multiple states, and if you go to the Delta counter, Delta does not run you NCIC. They would not know that you were wanted for murder when you got on that plane. You know, when I'm talking to our guests, particularly Irv Brandt, former U.S. Marshal Service, International Investigations, it sounds, I think of Jason Bourne, I think of Mission Impossible, all the spy movies. Yeah, it's not like that at all.

It's pretty, his getaway was pretty amateur. I don't know how this guy pulled it off. Take a listen to our Cut 18, Tony Terzi, Fox 61. Georgia State Police and U.Ss marshals stopped to interview family members that were traveling north back to massachusetts he says one family member was cooperative but the other wasn't and neither would say where pon was we have numerous boots on the ground and you know we're looking forward to apprehending this j Pan. Sources tell Fox 61, Pan returned to his Malden, Massachusetts home

after leaving Connecticut late Saturday and picked up his mother and father with all three hightailing it. That's not a sophisticated getaway. You go back home, you leave one state, go to the other, and pick up your mother and father and, quote, hightail it. How can a grown man with his elderly mother and father hightail it anywhere?

It takes me 20 minutes to get my mom in the car to go to the grocery store. So how does that happen? I don't get it, Irv Brandt. I'm not coming down on you. You're just the messenger. U.S. Marshal Service International Investigations. We got a guy, a killer, with his elderly mother and father

who, quote, hightail it and drive, I guess, down to Atlanta to hop a plane. How did, I mean, this is not Jason Bourne. How did he do it no big big country lots of cars atlanta hartsfield international is a huge airport lots of counters uh thousands of international

flights uh needle in a haystack unless you have specific information unless you have specific information, unless you develop specific information that this person is going to get on American Airlines flight 707 for a destination or something like that. But to be working on just vague information, you know, this direction, you know, maybe heading, you know know down i-75 or i-85 in the direction of atlanta could have stopped anywhere in between could have used any airports in between uh doesn't have to be atlanta hartsfield could have kept going to jacksonville yeah maybe he took the flight out of Jacksonville. No way to know unless you had some kind of information from a witness or maybe a family member or an associate telling you, you know, this is what he plans to do. Well, you know what, Dr. Jory Cross, a police psychologist, I'm giving law enforcement a hard time, but

Irv Brandt with U.S. Marshal Service, former International Investigations, is right. How do you, how does a U.S. Marshal or a cop go out on the interstate and figure out where this guy is? He's not in his own vehicle. We know that. We don't know what vehicles he is in.

And if you see him acting all mild-mannered with his elderly mother and father in the car, it sounds more like the Apple Dumpling Gang than anything else. So Irv Brand is actually right. Yeah, and I see him really being highly organized. I mean, it looks like there were maybe a lot of lucky opportunities that he took advantage of. But, you know, the simple fact that he maintained composure when being, you know, interviewed with a car accident on a railroad tracks, you know, and then his ability to, you know, dump that phone. I don't think he's got his phone because they're going to be doing a geo fencing of that whole area.

So, you know, they're not going to track them electronically. And he's basically hiding in plain sight. Just like, you know, Brandon was saying that, you know, there's thousands of people that go through there. And if they were to start checking everyone, you could imagine the delay that would cause. Yeah you're right. Plus those people don't have the ability, they're not authorized under law to access the NCIC system. You know what you're absolutely right I am agreeing that you Dr. Jory Crawson and Irv Brandt are correct. So

Tim Gallagher, Dr. Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the state of Florida, if by chance this guy, Quinjan Pahn, had been injured in the altercation, I wonder if that would have stopped anyone along the way, for instance, at the airport. I guess not. It'd have to be a severe injury. Well, certainly it would raise suspicion. You know, if he was pulled over and a officer noticed that he was bleeding or he was leaving or there was another trail of blood leaving the incident, that would certainly be able to be collected, his DNA processed, and that used to help support the argument in the court if he is ever brought to justice. We now believe Alexis Teresha at CrimeOnline.com that he has fled the country. Why?

Because the U.S. Marshals have asked Interpol, which is an international police organization, to issue a warrant for his arrest. They want, as Mr. Brandt said, they want to put an alert out to all 194 member countries to let them know to look for this man. If they see him, if he is in an airport, if he is somewhere, if he is arrested for a minor infraction somewhere, to know that he is wanted by the United States, by the U.S. Marshals, and that they should arrest him on the spot. They will work out extradition or anything else afterwards. But to know that he is a dangerous criminal, he's suspected of murder,

and that they should be careful but arrest him immediately if they find him anywhere. And he's from China, correct? He is. Oh, hold it right there. Wendy Patchett, you really think china's going to help us that's not going to happen well you know one of the one of the things about this bulletin is that people are warned not to try to apprehend them themselves because he's considered armed and dangerous so we really hope for the cooperation of the respective law enforcement agencies and

doing what they need to do and that people keep their eyes and ears open for this man it's true we don't know that we don't know where he is but we do know that people keep their eyes and ears open for this man. It's true. We don't know that we don't know where he is, but we do know that people live with a heightened state of awareness. Sadly, we all do nowadays. Did I hear Irv or Dr. Jory jumping in? Yeah, one thing I would, I'll go out on a limb here, but I would be highly suspicious that he would suicide when getting confronted. If he does get confronted at some point in time, I would imagine that his culture, his background, everything,

I would highly be suspicious that he would take his own life. If you have information, please call 203-946-6296 or better yet, U.S. Marshals, 877-926-8332. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace, Crime Story, signing off. Goodbye, friend. This is an iHeart Podcast.