Crime Weekly - Cari Farver | Email Confessions From the Killer (Part 4)

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

On November 16, 2012, 37-year-old Cari Farver was reported missing by her mother, Nancy, after she suddenly stopped showing up for work and answering calls. No one had seen Cari since the morning of November 13, but her phone was active, sending messages and posting online, making it seem like she hadn’t disappeared at all. Still, Nancy was adamant something was wrong. The messages didn’t sound like Cari. As detectives began looking into Cari’s disappearance, they started receiving reports that she was stalking and threatening multiple people. For more than two years, the behavior continued, growing more intense and dangerous than anyone could have imagined. And by the time detectives finally uncovered what was really going on, they were left trying to untangle a case so complicated, and so bizarre, that prosecutors worried a jury wouldn’t believe it was true.  Try our coffee! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. IQBar - Text WEEKLY to 64000 for 20% off ALL IQBar products and FREE shipping! 2. Pocket Hose - Text CW to 64000 to get 2 FREE gifts with your purchase of any Pocket Hose Ballistic Hose! 3. https://www.HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 27% off sitewide! 4. https://www.TryFUM.com - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for a FREE gift with your Journey Pack! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Lavasser. So today we're diving into the fourth and final part of the Carrie Farver case. I'm excited. I'm excited to wrap this up because you know the twist and turns. You sure there's not going to be a sixth part where we're going to find out she's imitating someone else, pretending to be someone applying for their jobs, changing her name. We're going to find out it was Dave the whole time. Imagine you throw that twist at me and everyone else where you're like, oh, by the way, it was actually. Dave the entire time. That'd be actually pretty cool. It was Dave impersonating Carrie and Liz. Yeah, that would be insane. That would be insane. Real quick, before we start, we are just getting back from CrimeCon at this point. We got the chance to meet a lot of you. We are not technically getting back from CrimeCon. Yeah, we're recording before CrimeCon. Technically and literally, we're recording this a few

days before we leave for CrimeCon, but when you watch it, our physical bodies. Yes. This is Inception. We're just talking about this. It's inception. And happy to see everybody again. I'm sure. sure it was a good time. Had a couple people DM me, a couple people in the comments, mentioned Patreon. For anybody doesn't know. I thought you were going to be like, I had a couple people DM me about CrimeCon. We had been a great time. No, we're not that good. I'm like, oh man, you're really. You're really selling this. No, we're not that good. Yes, we had people, we've had a lot of people actually ask about Patreon lately, and I don't know why. What do you think triggered that? Well, I think it's because on, on our social media and on Apple Podcasts and

Spotify, they're now seeing the bonus episodes. So real quickly to kind of break it down, and if you don't want to listen to this, you can just skip over it. But for Patreon, there's different tiers, different options with each tier, but you get like general discussions, chat rooms that me and, uh, that me and Stephanie are in. There's also a monthly giveaway. We've given away some pretty cool stuff up to this point. There's going to be a yearly giveaway for, or a yearly present, I guess you would call it a gift for our top tier members. And then on top of that, we do a monthly live. We also do the bonus episode. That's probably the biggest value where you're getting an episode. We like to call it Crime Bite, where it's one entire story in one episode.

So you get the beginning, middle, and end by the end of the episode. But if the Patreon thing's not for you where you're not as sociable and you don't want to be in the Patreon chat rooms, that's fine. We also have Crime Weekly Plus, which is on Apple Podcasts. And if you're someone who's on YouTube and you're like, hey, man, I really don't want any of the other things. I just want to be able to interact and use the emojis and get the episodes early and ad free. We have that on YouTube memberships as well. So all of the episodes, whether you're on Patreon or Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, no matter what it is, whatever membership you sign up for, if you're someone who's like, I don't want to see the ads.

I don't want to see any of the ads. Those are your options. Some platforms come with more values, if you will, than others. But personal preference. we've been upgrading it. We've been really getting into it. And the bonus episodes have been something that people really like and we're enjoying doing them. And in fact, even though we're recording this early, we're actually going to be doing our live tonight.

You won't see this until afterwards, but we do our private little live. There's probably only less than 100 people in there, right? Yeah. Less than 100. So it's really personal. We're chatting with everyone. We're usually making jokes, having fun, talking about random stuff. Last month we were talking about actors and who we thought was attractive.

It was a really weird conversation. I got to tell you, tonight's live is probably going to be pretty chaotic because we have been working so hard this week to make sure we have everything done. I'm, as the kids say, cooked mentally. You've been banking episodes for your personal channel. I've been banking episodes for my channel. And now we also have some really cool. Well, I guess we can say it now, right? Because they're not going to see this till after.

Yeah. Is that okay? Why? We could. I don't know if it's going to be. out yet though. Are you cool with saying? No, it won't be out. We can tell them. Why don't you tell them? Because you were the one that kind of facilitated this.

I just made the meeting happen with CrimeCon. But the people who fast forwarded because they don't want to hear about Patreon. They just miss this. They're going to miss this. Okay. So when we go to CrimeCon, because I don't know if you don't, if you don't follow me personally on my channel, I've been really digging into the Epstein files. I've done several episodes on the Epstein files already. And it's just absolutely bananas. But when I noticed that there was going to be Jeffrey Epstein survivors at CrimeCon, I was like, we cannot pass this up. Derek and I have to talk to them. Like, I need to speak to them. So we're going to be interviewing Courtney Wilde, Haley, Robson, and Jenna, Lisa Jones at CrimeCon.

And basically, we are going to be putting that out for everybody on Crime Weekly, not just patrons. Everyone will have access to that one for sure. And most of the episodes you're going to have access to regardless. This is just in case you wanted them ad-free. So you'll have that. If you've been watching all week this week, week, Crime Weekly news should have already dropped. And that was our live episode that we recorded at CrimeCon with Nikki about her mom. And the whole thing is just an amazing time. We love doing it. And we're looking forward to next year.

So that was my little spiel to start the show. I think I took a total of five minutes, but some people will still be mad at us. It is what it is. We're sorry. We're sorry. Please don't hit me. Whenever I get mad at my son and I'm like, why did you do that? He's like, I'm sorry.

And then you're like, I'm like, I feel bad. I'm like, I can't be maddie, you friggin' adorable teenager. All right. So let's dive in to today's episode. I'm going to give a quick recap because it's been a week, technically, for everyone else, but for us, it's been like two days. So for years, detectives with the Potawatomi County Sheriff's Office in Iowa believed 37-year-old Carrie Farver had willingly disappeared and was responsible for a relentless

stalking campaign targeting the people closest to Dave Krupa, a guy she went out in a few dates with and kind of dated for a few weeks. Thousands of messages, fake accounts, threats, vandalism, and even arson all appeared to point back to Carrie if you were looking at it in a microchasm and you weren't looking at the bigger picture and you were a detective at that point. But for me and Derek, we were like, come on, what do you think is going on here? But after reopening the case in 2015, true detectives, Ryanavis and Jim Doty uncovered evidence that changed everything.

They no longer believed Carrie was alive. Instead, they believe she'd been murdered by Shana Liz Goiler, who had spent years impersonating Carrie while orchestrating the chaos herself. So as detectives quickly and quietly worked to untangle what happened to Carrie, Liz continued inserting herself into the investigation. Remember, now Liz is claiming Dave's ex-girlfriend, who he has kids with, Amy, that's the real person who's been stalking her. That was a curveball last week. That was a curveball. Then just one day after shifting the blame to Amy, everything took a sudden and violent turn because on December 5th, 2015, police responded to Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa, where Dave moved, okay?

And this is also where Liz had been shot in the thigh. And according to Liz, Dave's ex-girlfriend, Amy, was the one who had pulled the trigger. And that's where we ended it. And you left us on that cliffhanger where I'm like, okay, now Liz is in the driveway and she's got a hole in her thigh. she's saying Amy shot her. My gut tells me, my gut tells me Amy didn't shoot her. Nobody shot her. What is the twist is it has been Amy this whole time?

I mean, listen. Dave and Amy together. The story writing here would be incredible because you had me fooled. I think you had most people fooled. So we can dive into it because I have a feeling you're going to tell us or you're going to reveal that Liz shot herself.

Which is absolutely bananas. That's dedication. This is the same woman who killed her, who killed her animals in a fire. I know. I know. I don't know how the story ends, but the fact that she shot herself and she didn't kill more people other than Carrie, allegedly, from what I know so far. Yeah, we haven't finished. Yeah, we don't know. We haven't finished, but I think all the writings on the wall, I'm surprised more people aren't dead because of her.

She's willing to see it through. This is not a person who half asses things, I guess. No. So let's back up a bit and talk about this quote unquote shooting. So on December 5th, 2015, it was around 6.40 p.m., police were dispatched to Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa, because Liz had called and reported that she had been shot. So when an officer arrived, he found Liz next to her car. She had been shot in the left thigh. He asked her who shot her, and at first she said she didn't know. The officer then asked where she'd been shot, and Liz said she'd been near a bench that was about 100 yards away from where she was when the police got there. Then seemingly out of nowhere, she suddenly remembered who did it. She said, quote, it was Amy. Amy shot me. End quote. According to Liz, she'd been lying on the bench

thinking when Amy suddenly appeared and blurted out, quote, so you like fucking Dave, end quote. Then according to Liz, Amy shot her and fled. And Liz said she had no idea where Amy went. This doesn't really make sense. Like if someone's like, who shot you? And she's like, I don't know. And then all of a sudden, And you're like, no, I remember. It was Amy. And not only do I remember because it just suddenly remembered, I saw her face, she spoke to me and said these things. Yep, gave me her exact motive for shooting me. How convenient.

Do you ever notice that Liz makes all of these other people sound like the most crass individuals ever as well? You know? Yeah, she's projecting for sure. Yeah, like, Amy just walks up, like, you like, you like, Dave, huh? Huh, is what you like? You know, and it's like, come on, man. Yeah, because that's what's going on in her head. That's how Liz thinks.

Yeah. Absolutely. She's got like Carrie texting and being like, oh, your stupid ugly children all deserve to die. She clearly thinks her kids are ugly. Yeah, these are the most crass, like aggressive out of nowhere people that Liz is portraying in these other women. All right. So medics and another police officer soon arrived. Liz was rushed to the hospital.

Meanwhile, police cordoned off the crime scene. Officers searched the park for the shooter and helicopter was even brought in to assist. but no matter how hard they looked, there was no sign of a shooter. And at the same time, officers went to Amy's house to see if she was there. Amy is home, right? Because she quickly shot somebody and then rushed home and enacted as if everything was fine. She's at home making a lean cuisine or something. And she's like, what?

Yeah, she's at home, you know, in the middle of like Sunday cleaning or something. She answers the door holding her son. She finds police standing outside with guns pointed at her. I would have been pissed. officers questioned Amy. She was fully cooperative and probably completely confused. She denied having anything to do with Liz being shot, of course. And one officer touched the hood of Amy's car and immediately noticed it was cool to the touch,

which is really, you know, it's like a quick way because you can't get there on foot. What other car would you take? You're obviously back home, so you didn't walk. Unless there's some accomplice here who's giving you rides to and from the park to shoot someone in the thigh, you probably weren't there because your engine's cold. You would expect that engine bay to be warm and that hood to be hot, or at least warm. And so that is a quick way to be like, huh, well, if she got there, she did it on a magic carpet because she didn't take this car. A magic carpet ride.

So this told the detectives that Amy clearly had not driven anywhere recently. And based on that, police did not think Amy was involved so she wasn't arrested. And by the way, I'm sure, again, if these police officers have been on the job a little bit, you can tell. I don't even know how to explain it. Yeah, just an initial gut feeling of like, this person genuinely. Their reaction. Yeah. Either they're an Oscar winning actor.

Or like a sociopath, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty organic. And you can tell there's been multiple times where we show up on something or we've responded to a fight. And you can tell immediately who's involved and who isn't just by the reactions, right? Oh, what are you talking about officer? But you can see that they're looking around and they're sweating and you can tell they just went through something. And then there's the times when you walk up on someone and they're like, whoa, hold on.

Pause. What did I do? Like you can just tell they have no idea. It's a genuine authentic reaction. Yes. Yes. And immediately you're like, oh, shit, this isn't the person. Let me second.

I do this with my kids all the time. I'll tell them I know something and then just see how they react. And if they react in a way where it's like even slightly like, oh, I'm caught, then I know. But if they're genuinely confused, I can tell. I can tell the difference. So, yeah, they did not arrest her. That's great. But while officers were searching for Amy or the shooter and while they were making the trip to her house,

Liz was still at the hospital where doctors confirmed and determined that the bullet had gone straight through her thigh. So a detective soon arrived to interview her and Liz said she felt nervous earlier that evening after noticing a silver car parked near her house. It looked like Amy's car, but by the time Liz stepped outside to get a better look, it had vanished. She said she went to the park to think. And while laying on a bench, Amy suddenly showed up and shot her most likely with Dave stolen gun. Because remember, somebody broke into Dave's apartment and stole his gun. How convenient. Yeah.

So while the detective was interviewing Liz, he got a call from one of the officers who had gone to Amy's house. And this officer was like, listen, I don't think Amy's involved. So then the detective told Liz, hey, I just talked to one of the other police officers who went to Amy's house. She was there. Her engine's cool. Doesn't really feel like she was involved. And has her baby in her hands? Nobody else there to watch them.

Who was watching the baby? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then Liz was like, well, it sounded. like her. It sounded like Amy, you know, so now, now Liz is backpedaling. Yeah. I didn't get a clear look. Yeah, like I know I really said it with my chest. Like, it definitely was her, but now I'm just going to say it sounded like her. But remember, Liz is also the person who days before this is talking to one of the detectives that's looking into Carrie's

death. And now Liz is saying to this guy, hey, I know for years I've been saying Carrie's the one stalking me and Dave, but now I think it's Amy. So it's, it's really, it's really, really kind of obvious, like she's setting it up to appear that way that she's trying to weave a narrative for these detectives as if she's smarter than them. And I mean, maybe it's because she was smarter than the first few of the detectives that were on the case. But yeah, specifically a sergeant. Yeah, a certain mention. But I also think there's some desperation here where she's so deep into it at this point. She's trying to find a way out. And she's trying to have it be on one loose end that she can tie up.

and they go to prison and that's the end of it. But her stories aren't making sense. And she has people who have half a brain investigating it and they're able to quickly deduce that something's not adding up. I was almost wondering if Liz at some point was getting like an indication that things were about to come to a head. That's what I'm saying. Like she knew the police were talking to Butterbow, right? And she's kind of thinking like, hey, I've been telling all of these people lies, different lies. It's all going to come to a head.

They're going to find out Carrie's dead. And if I start to make Amy look like a crazy person, then when they find out Carrie's dead, I can see that Amy killed Carrie. And I'll have some reasonable doubt. Setting up some more safety nets. I also think we were kind of joking last week when we were talking about. I don't remember if it was Doty or Avis, but someone, one of the two was like, hey, yeah, no, I'm actually working this case. And they followed her out and they were able to get her phone. And he was playing nice.

And we were kidding around saying she probably thought he was flirting with her. but the reality is there may have been a part of her that's like, hmm, this detective's taking an awful big interest in this. And maybe he's doing this for other reasons. This is not good. Maybe she picked up on that. Well, she went in to report that she was worried about Amy stalking her. And so then he followed her out as in like, oh, I overheard you.

Like, this is really concerning. He wasn't saying like, I'm investigating Carrie Farver's disappearance. He was like, oh, I just heard you talking about this. Like, this is concerning. if there's any way I can help kind of thing. Right. And he took an interest in it. And I'm saying this, and this is kind of like a knock on law enforcement, what you

will find, if you've had experience with law enforcement, in some departments, they're not as willing to help. Like, if it's not their case, they don't care about it. So to have a detective go, oh, I was just, I had overheard your, you know, what you were saying there. And that's terrible. You know, what can we do? You know, how can I help?

You don't normally get that type of bedside manners. And I would like to think you should, but you don't. don't. And so maybe she's like, huh, this guy's awful willing to kind of like help me out right now. Like, why is that? What's the, what's the motive here? You know, and maybe she was like, I got to, I got to elevate this. You could be like, police usually aren't this attentive. Yeah, exactly. And maybe that's what led to or part of it was like, I got to, I got to raise the stakes here. I got to do something. I got to put Amy behind bars. I definitely think that she probably knew, like, hey, I've set a lot of dominoes up over these past few years. And there's absolutely no way that

that they're going to just, this is never going to be found out. No, eventually someone's going to put two and two together that Carrie isn't alive. And they're going to be able to figure out how long she's actually been gone. And it's going to leave the big question. Well, then if it's not Carrie, who? Who's sending these messages? I just think it's weird that Liz keeps giving her phone over to be downloaded. Even after she has Todd Butterbow, like when they download your phone, what do the police

give from it? He told her. Well, I think part of it is like hubris, right? But also maybe the feeling that if she doesn't give her, it over it makes her look guilty. So she's like, oh, yeah, of course, like almost calling their bluff. Like, I'll let them download it in the hopes that they don't actually do their job or that maybe Sergeant Phillips is still on the case. And then it'll just let do the cracks, you know? I also think she's thinking, I am, I'm able to explain my way out of everything and have been

for my entire life. So I'll just make something up. I'll, I'll be like, wait, how did that picture of Carrie's SUV get on my phone? She must have put it in. I'm being framed. She's in IT, you know, she must have put it on my phone somehow. Or she turns around and blames Butterbaugh. Yeah, it's Butterbaugh or Dave did it because, you know, I'm dating Dave. He must have taken my phone and taken that picture trying to frame me. Like, she thinks I can, if I continue making excuses and nobody can ever really pin me down and I'm all over the place, I might be able to get away with this.

Yeah, just scatter it so much. So it wasn't long before detectives working Carrie's case learned Liz had been shot and they were immediately suspicious. So they asked Amy and Dave to come in and speak with them. They didn't tell either of them that they believed Carrie was dead or that she had never been a stalker. Instead, they asked Dave and Amy if they could download their phones to review the messages that they'd been receiving. And they both agreed. So when Anthony Kava, who's the IT guy, he looked through the data from Dave and Amy's phones, he learned that Dave alone had received around 15,000 emails and more than 25,000 texts from Carrie, quote unquote,

Carrie, aka Liz. And many of the emails had been sent from Todd Butterbow's IP address, which meant they really came from Liz because she's living with Todd Butterbow. And remember, she was like, I'm going to live with you and move in with you, but I'm not going to sleep in the bed with you. I'm going to go in the basement. The basement was like Liz's troll cave. Her layer.

Yeah. Her troll layer, not the Batcave, the troll layer, where she's got probably more than one device set up. and she is working overtime to send all of these texts and emails. And she's doing it from, I feel bad for Todd because she's doing it from his house, you know. Do you feel bad for Todd, though? Kind of, yeah. I mean, wouldn't it raise a red flag for you if the person you're seeing is like, oh, I have to sleep down.

Yes, for sure. I mean, come on. As a reformed trusting person, I remember being that way where I was like, you know, they probably have a good reason. for being this way. They had a hard childhood. You just have a bigger heart than me because I don't have a lot of sympathy for him. I used to. I just feel like maybe there's a world where Todd just looked the other way because he was like,

I like the company. I like the attention. But he also said, remember, at some point he was like, I kind of didn't really push Liz because I was afraid of what she might do to me. Right. So, I mean, there's a lot going on there. And yeah, fine. We'll give Todd the pass.

Right. Currently as it stands. So let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack and hydration sponsor. IQ Bar protein bars, IQ Mix, hydration mixes, and IQ Joe mushroom coffees are the delicious, low sugar, brain and body fuel you need to win your day. Yeah, and I feel like that's one of the hardest parts of a busy day is avoiding that crash

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that Liz had been posing as carry, but they still needed more. So crime scene technicians processed Carrie's explorer again. Now previously, the vehicle had only been searched for fingerprints, remember. But this time, detectives were looking for blood. They didn't find any. That same day, detectives and counsel bluffs asked Liz to come with them to the lake and try to recreate what happened during the shooting. They also brought a metal detector because remember, the bullet went straight through Liz's

thighs. So now they're going to try to find projectiles, shell casings, maybe even the weapon itself, if it had been discarded somewhere in the park. When detectives asked Liz to show them where she'd been shot, she did not take them to the bench around 100 yards from the parking lot. This was the one she originally mentioned because she was outside of her house and she saw a silver car and she was like, that looks like Amy's car. And then she tried to get a closer look at the car was gone. So she was like, I better go and drive to a park and lay on a bench to think about this. Makes sense. On tracks.

She did not take them to that bench. Instead, she walked right past it and led them to the opposite side of the lake. And there was another bench there. But it definitely was not the same one she described before. And you'd have to wonder, how after getting shot in the thigh, would you be able to make it all the way from that bench across the lake back to your vehicle to where you were found? Like, that would probably be a little bit more difficult than stumbling 100 yards from a bench to your car to call the police. I can tell you this, there would be a blood trail. There would be blood all over, right?

There would be blood all over the grass or sand or whatever's around that lake. She might have passed out from blood loss at that point. Probably. And even though it was a through and through, I'm assuming at this point it didn't hit like a major artery or anything. But still, there's a lot of blood flow there. Unless you're wrapping it and tourniqueting it or whatever, which I don't believe she did. So detectives searched that area across the lake thoroughly, but they came up empty. There was no projectiles, no shell casings, no weapon.

At that point, Council Bluffs police believed Liz had likely shot herself, and the detectives working on Carrie's case, they agreed. They became deeply concerned for Amy's safety, so they quietly put a protection plan in place. They obtained a warrant to place a GPS tracker on Liz's car. They also created a geo fence around Amy's apartment complex, meaning if Liz's vehicle entered the area, detectives would receive text alerts. if she stayed too long.

Now, I think if you're entering the area at all, you're there too long because we already have, you know, we don't have, I guess, all the evidence that you need to arrest her, but the detectives are already like, yeah, we definitely think she killed Carrie Farver, right? And now she's doing the same kind of thing with Amy. This seems to be where she's headed to also kill Amy and then, you know, take over her identity and do the same thing over with Amy that she did with Carrie. So you shouldn't be anywhere near her house at this point. And you're right. At this point, the only way to make sure there's only one side of the story is to make sure that Amy's dead, right? Because Carrie can't speak for herself.

Yeah, because Amy's already thrown a wrench in your whole shooting you in the thigh story by denying it. That's right. So this is the wrench and the plan, right? This is a variable that you can't control. So anything you say or do that you try to pin on Amy, they can go ask. her about it. And that's not good for Liz. That's not what she wants. But here's another thing. You're bringing Amy and Dave in to talk to them. And you're like telling them, oh, things that, you know, what's going on here? But you're not telling Amy, hey, someone named Liz is kind of like after you and seems to be targeting you. And we have a strong suspicion that she already killed somebody. So Amy kind of really doesn't even know.

And I have a problem with this because at this point, I feel like the only way you can protect Amy or really anyone else is to arrest Liz. Do you feel like you have enough at this point to place her under arrest for something? The way you're telling the story, it sounds to me like at this point, they have enough to arrest Liz, especially unless the orders a little off. For impersonation or like a filing a false police report or something. No, but when they figure out that it's coming from Todd's IP address, you can reverse engineer it from there.

All the emails that were sent, the things that were said in those letters, the photo being found on her phone, totality of circumstances, you could build a pretty strong case against her at this point. With Amy, the only thing I would push back on is I do think you have an obligation to let her know that her life is in jeopardy. I would probably refrain from letting her know that we believe Liz is responsible for another murder because just for chain of custody issues. You don't want Amy to start talking to people and get it back to Liz that they're investigating her for murder. But you can, you still, your number one priority is to preserve life. And so without generally, jeopardizing the investigation, you can still let Amy know that we need to protect you. You need to be

cognizant of your surroundings. This person could hurt you. And so you can do that without letting her know that Liz is a suspect and another murder. You could still accomplish the goal. Yeah, but so at this point, they've got a GPS tracker on Liz's vehicle. They've got, you know, Amy's house geo-fenced, right? But Amy's pretty much still like not really knowing the depths of this. Yeah. Yeah. Which is concerning, especially having a small child at home. Yeah, I don't even know if they told her, like, we're going to geofence your house and we're going to, you know, put a tracker. They wouldn't have to. It wouldn't have to.

No. So, counsel bluff's police agreed they would immediately respond to protect Amy if Liz's vehicle, when did that geofenced area and stayed too long. But once again, Amy has absolutely no idea of any of this is happening. And so the tracker alerted police many times every single day to Liz's presence in the air. area. Once again, this is time to arrest her. Now, usually she would just drive through Amy's parking lot and leave, so officers never intervened, but detectives knew they needed to ramp up the investigation. So they invited Liz to Detective Doty's office under the guys that they had found Carrie deceased. And this was Doty's first time meeting her. She's already talked to Avis.

So he introduced himself to Liz and explained he was working a missing person's case, and the detectives had found remains they believed belonged to Carrie. But at this point, they don't know. They don't know where Carrie's remains really are. And Liz theoretically does, right? Because she's the one who killed Carrie. So they've got to be very careful with this conversation. Because if they say the wrong thing, she's going to know they're full of shit.

And they're smoked out. That's it. Yep. So Liz acted like she did not know much about Carrie. She claimed they had only met once in passing. Liz said she originally believed Carrie had been stalking her, but now she thought it was Amy. and Detective Doty played along and told Liz he hoped to build a case against Amy for Carrie's murder but did not yet have enough evidence.

If he had proof, Amy made threatening statements or implied she had done something to carry, that kind of evidence would be like gold. That's how he explained it to Liz. And wouldn't you know it? After that meeting, Liz found this gold evidence. She forwarded an email to Doty claiming Amy had sent it to her and the subject line read, I shot you. you and the email said, quote, I shot you, Liz, to make sure Dave stayed away from you. I got rid of the gun. Looks like the police haven't arrested me.

No one has proof. It was me. End quote. Except this email you just sent, Amy. Yeah. And where's that email sent from again? Let me guess. Probably Todd's IP.

Yeah. Or somewhere that's connected to Liz. Dating an IT person and not understanding what IP addresses do and how it's easy to, like, figure out where things came from. you know how to do it. It's a little of an oversight on Liz's part. She should have been maybe having more conversations with Tal. You should have been taking advantage of this boyfriend that you were using for a babysitter. You should have used him for what was in his hat, honestly, more. I agree. This is 2012, not 1912. At this point, IP tracking, metadata analysis, it's all a thing.

And you would think she would have done our research. So this was kind of what the detectives had hoped for, right? Liz impersonating Amy and essentially confessing to shooting herself. The problem was she confessed to the wrong crime. Detectives had needed Amy to talk about Carrie Farver. And so Doty told Liz the shooting at the park was not even his case, not his jurisdiction. And he's like, you know, unfortunately, I can't really do anything with this. There's another department handling that investigation. But I'm on Carrie's murder.

And I need information about that. Like, I really wish you had something that could help me with that. And Liz was like, don't worry. I'll work on it. I'm going to go home to Todd's tonight, sit in the basement and fabricate this evidence that you need. Well, here's the angle I'm looking at. And by the way, this is a genius move. It's risky, as you said.

It could really blow up in your face. However, you're telling this person that you believe killed Carrie that you found her body. You think you might have remains that might be hers, yes. Might be hers believing that this person knows exactly what happened to her. So if she's, if Kerry's in a location that Liz can't go back and confirm whether or not they found her, you could have a scenario now where he wants her to specifically talk about Carrie because if she provides an email from quote unquote Amy, providing information about Carrie's death or disappearance that only the person responsible would know. They bang. There you go. Guilt knowledge, right.

Now they all they have to do is show that the email wasn't sent from Amy and was sent from Liz. and you got her dead to rights. It's a really cool angle. And I'm impressed. I'm impressed by Doty and Avis this entire time. Also, they have Liz's car with the track run. And now so let's see if she's like, well, let me go to the place where I put Carrie's remains to see if they really did find Carrie's remains.

Yeah. It's brilliant. Right? It's a really good investigative work. So you've got two facets of this where you could potentially catch her up red-handed. Yep. It's a really good job. Makes me happy.

Within days of Doty telling her like, God, really Carrie's murder. I need evidence on. I need just some gold. Just, you know, could you find something? You've been so good. I mean, we might want to hire you after this. Yeah. I'm sure they did throw that line out there, too. So within days of this meeting, Liz forwarded another email to Doty. This one said, quote, When I met Crazy Carrie, she would not stop talking about Dave and him being her husband. She tried to attack me, but I attacked her with a knife. I stabbed her three to four times in the stomach area, end quote. Now, the email claimed that after being stabbed, Carrie was still alive and begging for her life, while Amy supposedly spent the, quote, whole time watching the life drain from her body, end quote.

Wow. Okay, Liz. So the email continued, quote, I then took her out and burned her. I stuffed her body in a garbage can with crap. She was carried out to the dumpster, probably when Dave took my garbage out for me. So be glad I did not do you that way, Liz. I will never admit to Dave or police. No one.

Maybe I'm drunk now and just telling lies to you. Dave will always take care of me and protect me, so I will never have to go to jail. When I followed you that night, I shot you. I left my baby home because he was sleeping. Made sure I called Dave and texted him for my alibi. So you can never prove it was me, end quote. Except for the email of you confess. Yeah.

Yeah, the email with your email header at the top. If Liz wants the police to believe that Amy sent this email, then it would be. mean that emails like this would be, you know, have some weight with the police. So if Amy's like, no one will ever figure out it was me as I confess everything to you like a super villain and in a bad movie and send this email to you. Like now at this point, I feel like Liz has just absolutely lost her mind because. No, but she feels like this is her way out. How though? Because it seems so obvious. No, I think, I think to her, well, she's not the sharpest tool in the shed, clearly. I mean, there's a lot of things she's done in this case.

She has like, like she's delusional about how things look. She's, she lacks self-awareness. She's definitely mentally disturbed. And in her mind, it all makes sense. But in reality, everyone else watching is going, what are you doing? But to kind of break down what she said there in this email or quote unquote, Amy said in this email, it's important because obviously what she's describing here is brutally murdering Kerry. but more importantly, burning her body, disposing of it in the garbage, and having it end up in a dumpster, which would mean it would end up in a landfill. So if that's true, then more than likely you're never going to find Carrie.

And that's important in this case because you're looking at a no-body homicide. Yeah. And then Liz went back to Doty with that email, right? And he was like, okay, now I need some really solid gold evidence about who Jack the Ripper was. And a few days later, she came back and she was like, here, I got an email from Jack the Ripper. And he's like, hey, it's Jack. Hi, Liz. How are you doing?

Writing you from the 1800s. Just want to tell you what my identity is. Like, is. Yeah, coincidentally, it just always comes her way. It just, they, she gets, she's manifesting, right? The detectives are like, I need exactly this in an email from exactly this person. She's like, hold on. Let me go home, manifest on this.

Meditate and really like bring this energy that you need towards me. at you. I help you. Maybe you're going to address this, but in my head right now, I'm thinking if there's any truth to what she's saying here, did she stab Carrie? You mean if she's describing what she did to carry? Right, right. If she killed her in the apartment or if she killed her at the entranceway, you would expect to find some remnants of this bloody crime scene, even if it was cleaned up, whether it's bleach or whatever. But I don't know, looking back at these four parts that we've done, if they did that. It sounds like she's trying to say that she did it at her house, right?

I took her out and burned her. I stuffed her body in a garbage. She was carried out to the dumpster, probably when Dave took my garbage out for me. So how did she get her back to the apartment? I don't know, but I don't know if that's exactly what happened. But I get what you're saying. I think that the whole stabbing thing and all of that, she's going to describe that accurately if she suspects that they might have access to.

remains or something like that because you can burn somebody but you still can't burn them to an extent where you know like what are we talking about here you don't have some high powered incinerator no but that that would make sense that would make sense because if what you're saying is true then it would also give her even more incentive to burn her house down or burn her place down because that's where forensically they would be able to tie the murder to Liz if that's where she was yeah but how would she get her there that's very that's interesting yeah i don't know but maybe it's just by force, if they're in the car, right? If she, if Carrie comes downstairs, Liz has a knife and says, we're going for a ride, get in the car, I'm going to kill you right here. Maybe, maybe Carrie

freezes and does what she says. So you're saying Carrie leaves Dave's apartment to go to work. She gets in her car. Maybe Liz is already in there, pops up from the back seat, holds a knife to her neck drive. Yep. And that would explain maybe while the fingerprints gets on the little mints or whatever in the car. So that could be what we're talking about here. But we shall see. Well, just 30 minutes after this first email where Amy is confessing everything to how she killed Carrie, Amy sent another email to Liz, and this one confessed to the arson at Liz's house. The subject line read fucking crazy bitch and began, quote, now that I got your attention, don't ever come back around my kids, Dave or me, just like your house getting burned was me. That's another thing

that Dave won't believe either. End quote, except you're putting it in writing. But here's the thing, right? She's at home writing these letters. Her wheels are turning. She's thinking about did they find remnants of Carrie? And it reminds her of something that she had also done to try to destroy evidence. Burn her house down. And if I can prove Amy was at my house, then that would, yeah. Hey, listen, there's a lot more to talk about. I'm into it. I really want to hear how this one's going to end. Let's take a break. We'll be right back. So as always, we are excited to tell you about the world's number one expanding garden hose and their brand new product, the pocket hose ballistic. And once again, Derek and I were talking about the pocket hose before we started filming ads. Yeah, I mean, they're amazing. Listen, I get everyone's like, oh, it's just a hose. But when you have a hose that doesn't work, it's a pain in the, you know what, when you're trying to walk around your yard.

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Okay, so obviously, now we have these emails, right? And they're confessing things. They're confessing the arson. They're confessing to Carrie Farver's murder. So Anthony Kava, the IT guy, he immediately got to work tracing the IP addresses from Amy's messages and learned, of course, that they were coming from Todd Butterbough's house. Now, at that point, it was very clear that Liz had been posing is Amy just as detective suspected.

So within a few days of those emails being forwarded to Detective Doty, Liz told him she would not be able to help him build the case against Amy for a while because she was too busy moving. So it's like, I'm too busy to send myself emails so I can't have anything else to give you. It's like, you're too busy moving. So what, you stop being harassed? Right. The person stops sending emails.

I'm too busy moving. So Amy's not bothering me right now because I'm moving. But when I'm settled, I'm sure something else will come in. So this wasn't a lie technically because after the shooting, Todd had finally convinced Liz that she had to go. She had to get the hell out of his house. He told her he could not be involved in whatever dangerous drama she'd been swept up in and she needed to go. So Liz then moved to Persia, Iowa, a town of around 300 people, about 35 miles northeast of Omaha. If I'm Liz, I'm heading for the border at this point.

I'm not staying in Omaha. Yeah. Okay. Like, I'm like, okay, things are getting hot here. Yeah, I'm sending crazy emails. Canada looks good, you know, at this point. I'm not staying in Omaha. She's out of her mind.

So over the next few weeks, Liz continued speaking with Detective Doty a handful of times and continued forwarding him more incriminating emails supposedly sent by Amy, who politely waited for Liz to finish moving before resuming her stalking and harassing activities. Mm-hmm. How nice of her. So Liz told Doty she was frustrated. it was taking so long for the police to arrest Amy. And at the same time, she kept telling Dave over and over again that Amy had been the one stalking them all along, not Carrie.

According to Liz, Amy was responsible for burning down her house in shooting at her. But this strategy ended up backfiring for Liz because Dave, this was not some new person he was dating for a few weeks. Dave had known Amy for more than 15 years, right? They had kids together. They had kids together. They weren't legally married, but it was like they were married, you know. They had gone through way more things, lived together, all of that. He was absolutely certain Amy would never hurt anyone.

There was simply no way she was capable of the things Liz was accusing her of. And at this point, Dave's probably like, man, maybe I should have just stayed with Amy. So she's a good person. She's the mother of my children. I went out here trying to find, you know, plenty of fish. I wanted more fish. But these fish have not been great. I don't know.

Dave doesn't seem like quite the logical thinker to me. But I could be wrong. I've been rough on Dave this whole series. I mean, at least when he was with Amy, he wasn't being stalked by multiple people as far as he's concerned. That is true. So in late January of 2016, Dave finally called detectives and he shared his concerns about Amy being blamed for all of this by Liz. Detectives decided to tell him part of the truth. They explained that they believed Liz had actually been the one stalking him and they made it clear that they thought she was extremely dangerous. They also told him they feared Amy and his children and then Amy's new baby they could be in danger.

So after that conversation, Dave called Amy. Now, Amy had suspected Liz all along and had raised concerns over the years because a woman's intuition cannot be beat. You know Amy was over there telling Dave like, how many red flags does Liz have to show you? Yeah. Before you're like, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Like, what are we doing here?

As a woman, I can tell you that this one you're dealing with, kind of a. out of her mind, I would step back. And Dave was like, but she jumped on me. So Amy's been trying to warn Dave for a while. Dave had not believed her until now because he's not too smart. And so Amy basically told Dave, I told you so, which, I mean, I don't blame her for that. Like I usually don't like and I told you so, but in this situation, it's warranted. So then Dave and Amy decided to move in together so they could protect the kids together and

keep an eye on things. But I'm confused because, didn't Amy have a baby of someone else? Where's that dude? And how's he feel about Dave and Amy moving it together? Obviously, he's not in the picture. But either way, this must have enraged. Oh, Liz is going to be pissed. This is the exact opposite of what she's been trying to.

They drove them together. Yeah. Well, now, because now Dave and Amy are bonding on the same thing. They're united by this common cause. Which is what Liz and Dave had been united on. but it was a fake orchestrated common cause, whereas this is an actual common cause. Right, right. Something that Liz could never genuinely replicate.

So detectives were glad that Dave moved in with Amy because they believed it would drive Liz mad and potentially push her to incriminate herself even further. Kind of escalate, right? Yep. And of course, as we all suspected and knew, that plan did work. Not long after, Liz called Doty again to complain that Amy still had not been arrested. And Detective Doty apologized, but told her, he needed more detailed information if he was going to build a case. He explained the emails simply did not contain enough specifics.

Liz was like, say no more. Say less. I got you, Doty. Coming your way. She's like, you need more specifics? All right. Hold on a second. And then, no, Liz actually was like, okay, I'm going to send you more proof.

But instead of forwarding more emails, she went directly to Doty's office and offered him access to her Google account, explaining it was just far too much. to keep forwarding Amy's messages. Liz handed over the password and detectives immediately began monitoring the account. What an idiot, man. Wow. Remember that old saying like if they were smart, we wouldn't catch them? She's the poster child for that.

She's like, do you want to set up surveillance cameras inside my house so you can watch me all the time? Yeah. She really didn't have a lot of high hopes or respect for this police department. She just think they weren't doing anything. I think she had a high opinion of her own intelligence. that was on a warrant. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So within hours, of course, within hours of her providing all of this information so the police can be in her account in real time. More confessions from Amy started appearing. One email described driving around with Carrie in Carrie's own vehicle before stabbing her multiple times in the stomach. There you go.

Mm-hmm. The email also claimed that Amy cleaned Carrie's vehicle afterward. There were additional details included that were incredibly specific. enough that detectives knew the killer was revealing pieces of the truth. The writer accurately described the inside of Carrie's home and referenced a yin-yang tattoo on Carrie's left hip to prove that she wasn't, quote, lying about offing that crazy bitch, end quote. This statement was notable because that tattoo had never been made public before. Guilt knowledge. Yeah, this is absolutely brilliant.

I mean, let's really recap what we're talking about here. they are getting the suspect to write a written confession about everything they did without the person knowing it. They didn't even have to Mirandize her because in her mind, she's Amy. So they're able to get this guilt knowledge confession, which after the fact they will prove to the court that in reality, it was Liz writing these emails and that's who they should be going after. So it's really brilliant work. And I have to say, we've been doing this for almost five years. I've never heard of this approach before. This is completely innovative.

Obviously, it's a rare circumstance to have a suspect this dumb and to think that this is going to work. But this is why I love crime weekly because here I am still being surprised by criminals and surprised by the tactics being implemented by law enforcement. But it's really, really great work. Yeah. And I mean, yeah, you have to assume that I really have to wonder if like Liz, was mentally ill to the point where she was fractured. And when she was impersonating these people, she actually believed that she was these people.

I don't doubt it. I don't doubt it. There's no way a rational person wouldn't know that this is bad. It reminds me of that movie split, remember? Yeah. Or like he would become someone else, but then not remember what he did when he was that someone else? I wouldn't be surprised if there were some underlying conditions

that she would be diagnosed with later. but I do want to go back to the actual confession itself. It confirms what we were speculating about earlier, right? That more than likely, Liz confronted Carrie as she left Dave's apartment. They got into the truck, probably at knife point, drove around, allegedly went to Carrie's house. Yeah, so that's what I wanted to pull back to. Yeah. She described the inside of Carrie's house.

So now I'm wondering, well, did she bring her to her house? How would Liz know that no one was home at Carrie's house? Well, I guess her son, Max, would be at school. Right. And Carrie's son, Max, was being cared for by her mother because Carrie was staying with Dave for that project? So was Carrie's house ever checked by the police forensically? And at this point, Carrie's been gone for so long. That house probably is no longer even viable.

Yeah. If somebody else has been living there, it's bad. However, you could still go back after the fact and find evidence of a cleanup. It would be harder to attach it to Liz and the crime itself. But hypothetically, if there's a carpet and carries apartment and we were to learn that she was stabbed and allowed to bleed out on that carpet, even though it was cleaned, we all know at this point you could still forensically put that under some type of alternate light source and be able to see whether it's through luminal or some other scientific process, you would be able to see what occurred in that location. And so, yeah, is it Carrie's apartment? Is it Liz's house? It has to be one of the two.

And I would think in hindsight they could go back and process that crime scene. So here's what I'm thinking. I think that where Carrie was staying was a rental. And obviously when she's gone and not paying rent, they're going to rent it to someone else, right? Now, do you have to get those people's permission to go in there or the landlord's permission to go in there? Or can you get a warrant either way? Well, you could definitely get a warrant, right? you could articulate that that particular apartment was used in a crime and you could definitely

do it. It would cause some issues because the tenants that currently live there do have an expectation of privacy. So you could go there and ask for verbal consent and more than likely they would give it to you. But if for some reason they said no, then yeah, you could still articulate any search warrant to a judge that you needed access to that apartment because it contained evidence that could be helpful to a homicide investigation. Yeah. Okay. So either way, they can get in there. But it's just interesting that you would take her to her place to do that. But I suppose. But it also sounded like she said she was stabbing her in the car. I don't think she was stabbing her in the car.

She's driving around in the vehicle before stabbing her multiple times in the stomach. Yeah. I think it was at a different location where she stabbed her. I don't think it would be in the car. If it were in the car, they would have found something in one of the crevices of that vehicle or in the carpet to suggest that Carrie had bled out in the vehicle. I think it was at either her apartment or Liz's place. But I think we can safely say not at Dave's apartment. Not at Dave's apartment, but I also don't know what was being done in the early stages of this investigation before Doty and Avis took it over. Not much. So nothing was being processed. Yeah. I don't even think they went into Dave's apartment and processed it. Yeah. That's the problem. Because I don't even think that

they figured out who Dave was until months and months after Carrie had been missing. because Carrie's mom didn't know who Dave was. Yeah. She just knew her daughter was with someone she had met and had been dating. They didn't really know each other. She didn't know his last name, remember? All right. So after receiving this email,

Detective searched Carrie's Explorer for a third time hoping to find something. And this time, Doty looked at the vehicle himself. And when he removed the cloth seat covers, he found a large reddish stain soaked into the foam of the passenger seat. This is kind of pissing me off. You found this on your third look? Does Doty and Avis have to do everything here? Yeah.

Your third look? So they process the Explorer the first time and they don't think it's like connected to a murder. So they just look for fingerprints. Okay. Understandable, you missed the blood. But then they literally go in a second time to look for blood. In the Explorer, you didn't remove the seat covers?

I got no excuse. What are we talking about here? The hell's going on in Omaha? And then, of course, Detective Doty has to come. And really, I keep calling them like the true detectives, but they remind me of the first season of true detective, which is hands down the best with Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, where it's like all the other police force.

They're just like, whatever, let this weird cult take all the kids. You know, we can't do anything about it. And Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson are like, we're going to actually do real police work. But they're just doing like what they should be doing and following the leads they should be following. I'm just surprised that they didn't even like spray the car down with like LCV, like something to basically enhance any type of blood that could have been there.

Like with the LCV, we're talking about the chemical agent that would react with blood and cause like a bluish, purplish stain. You would expect them to spray down that whole car with LCV to see if there's anything. Yeah, because if there's blood, so what they're saying, they're not like seat covers that you'd put on yourself. It's the actual seat cover that comes standard with the car. So when they pulled that seat cover up in the foam underneath, that's where they found the blood. But there must have been a good amount of blood on that seat cover for it to have soaked into the foam. underneath. Of course.

Damn, Liz did a great cleaning job. So maybe she should have started a cleaning company, honestly, at this point. That's where LCV would have been pretty good in this case. I think where sometimes with luminal, it can react with cleaning agents to give a false positive. But with LCV, you can spray it. And in the crevices, let's just say the pattern that's on that seat cover, if they can't get into that little crevice, what you're going to see after the fact is this clean seat cover,

but this purplish blue color in all of the seams. To the surface, yeah. It would all, just any blood that they weren't able to get out, it's all going to react with it, even if it's a microscopic amount. So, yeah, that was a missed opportunity there for sure. Well, get this, because we're talking about where did the crime happen? Where did the stabbing happen? Well, now it looks like it might have happened in Cary's Explorer because there was a- You kind of suggested that.

Yeah, there was enough blood in the foam of the passenger seat to suggest a violent crime had occurred, just like the emails described. But this is the passenger seat. So what's going on? Liz driving when she stabbed Carrie? So now I have to sort of, you know, review what we're talking about here. So Doty swabbed the stain and sent it off for testing. By that point, he and Davis were convinced that at least parts of the emails were based in truth. It seemed like the murder happened in Omaha. So they contacted the Omaha Police Department and cold case homicide detective Dave Schneider soon joined the investigation. So now we've got another detective.

We've got Doty, Avis, and Schneider. The triple threats. against Liz, hopefully. I like you. I like the names. They work. Yeah. Yeah. But in True Detective, there's only two that really know what they're doing.

So now it's really ruining my whole, my whole concept in my head. But anyways, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. I feel like people underestimate how much bad sleep affects literally everything. And I don't anymore, especially now that I'm older because you can really tell. No, I mean, when you sleep badly, your entire day feels harder. Exactly. Exactly.

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Yeah. Even so, detectives knew things were escalating and that Amy and Dave were in real danger. So they moved quickly to secure multiple search warrants, one for Liz's new home in Persia and another for Todd Butterbough's house. Todd was also placed on administrative leave. Now, he and Liz had already broken up and no one believed he was involved, but detectives wanted to make sure everything remained completely above board as the investigation moved closer to an arrest. On February 25th, detectives executed the search warrants while Liz was at work. Nothing significant was found at Todd's house, but at Liz's place, investigators recovered multiple LG cell phones, a Sony video camera,

a Nikon digital camera, and several memory cards. Everything was seized as evidence, and Anthony Kava immediately began going through it. While Liz was still at work, Detective Schneider arrested her, though not for murder. Instead, she was taken into custody over a traffic infraction. Once at the station, Schneider began questioning Liz about Carrie, and Liz repeated the same story she had told before. She barely knew Carrie. She'd only met her once in passing. Then Schneider turned the conversation around and made it clear how serious things had become. I'd be mad if I was Avis and Doty because I'd want to be the person, you know, to be like, ha-ha, Liz, we have you. So Schneider said, quote, you're in very serious position here. For almost four years now, this woman's son hasn't had his mom. A mom hasn't had her daughter. End quote. Liz immediately cut him off and said, quote, I know. That's why I'm concerned too, because I'm just like she's missing and for her family.

End quote. So Schneider stopped her, caught her off, and he began laying out the evidence detectives had against her. But no matter what he brought up, Liz denied everything. If he mentioned the photo of Carrie's vehicle found on her phone, Liz claimed she'd never seen Carrie's car. If he brought up evidence showing someone using Todd's IP address to impersonate both Carrie and Amy, Liz said it was impossible because she didn't even have internet access. Eventually, Liz said she was done talking and wanted an attorney. After resolving the unpaid traffic issue, she was released. So the investigation continued with Anthony Kava digging through the electronics recovered from Liz's apartment.

On one of the LG phones, he found evidence that it had been used to call Carrie's mom after Carrie disappeared. Then on one of the memory cards, Kava recovered a deleted video of Carrie taken before she vanished. Around the same time, detective searched a storage unit where Nancy, Carrie's mom had moved some of Carrie's belongings, and there they found owner's manuals for the exact Sony camcorder and Nikon camera recovered from Liz's apartment, along with store receipts showing that Carrie had purchased both items shortly before she disappeared. So when we say a video of Carrie taken before she vanished, we don't mean like, in a weird way, as in Liz took the video of Carrie. We mean like Carrie bought these, this video camera and this camera.

Like a family video or something. She was taking pictures and videos of herself and her family and stuff. Yes. So they're hers. So yes, Liz must have been at her house. So detectives kept digging and turned their attention to Carrie's financial records. They revisited the two debit card purchases made on November 16th after Carrie disappeared, one at Family Dollar and one at Walmart.

Now, Family Dollar no longer had records dating back to 2012, but Walmart did. So the purchases included winter clothes, cleaning supplies, and a black and white floral shower curtain. This immediately stood out because when detectives searched Liz's apartment in Persia, they found that exact shower curtain hanging inside her bathroom. So detectives theorized it may have been a trophy for Liz. They believed this because despite moving multiple times, including when she moved in with Todd, Liz had taken the curtain with her every single time. It was something innocuous that she could look at every day and remember what she did to carry.

Sick individual. Yeah. So, and I wonder what she did with the shower curtain, right? Was the shower curtain used to wrap Carrie's body in? And then you took it and you hung it so that you could, that would really make you remember it. We'll see. So after detectives linked the shower curtain to Liz, the DNA testing on the blood recovered from Carrie's vehicle came back as a match to Carrie. At that point, investigators felt they finally had

enough evidence to charge Liz with murder. They still were not entirely sure what happened to Carrie, but detectives strongly suspected she was intercepted at Dave's apartment by Liz. Liz had a key and could have entered while Carrie was in the shower, but they did not rule out other possibilities either. Liz had a key. Just let that sing in. Liz had a key to Dave's apartment, but Dave was telling her he didn't want to be serious and he didn't really see her like that, but she's got a key to his apartment. And you know this. Yeah, so she could have got the drop on her while she was inside the apartment or waited until she left.

Or like you suggested, she could have been sitting in the in the truck if the truck was unlocked. But you as Dave know that Liz has a key. Okay. Yeah. And you know that she's showing up when you have this other. And now you know you have this other girl staying at your apartment. And I'm not saying that Dave would have thought, oh, Liz is going to go in and kill Carrie. but you knew she showed up when you had Carrie there the first date.

Yeah. You knew she'd done things like that before. Is that maybe time to get the key back or change the locks? And on a personal, no, he doesn't want a relationship with Liz, but he's giving her the key to his apartment, which completely contradicts the whole this isn't going to be serious. Now, I'm not saying that Liz would not have, you know, interpreted things the way she wanted to regardless of what Dave said or did. Oh, yeah. But these are mixed signals. No doubt.

So maybe also Liz confronted Carrie as she was getting into her car. Maybe she pretended to be sick and asked Carrie for a ride home. They just weren't sure of how that all culminated. All they knew for certain was that Liz was responsible. So on December 22nd, 2016, Liz was taken into custody and charged with first-degree murder. At her arraignment, her attorney argued that Carrie was not dead, let alone murdered. He pointed to the fact that nobody had been found. there were no murder weapons and there was no witnesses.

Because of that, he argued the charges should be dropped. He also claimed Liz barely knew Carrie and had long since lost touch with Dave. Is that why you just threw a rock through his window? Yeah. The attorney said, quote, she only saw this lady one time just for a few seconds. There wasn't any argument, end quote. Liz entered a plea of not guilty and her bond was set at five million. So clearly the judge was like, yeah, I think there's something here to this, right?

Yeah, this lawyer's about to be in for a big surprise. Yeah. I wonder if the lawyer was even like, you know, familiar with the case before they took it on. Might have been like a public defender that was assigned it maybe a couple days before because when he gets the discovery packet, he's going to probably change his tune. Yeah, he's like, how do you know, Carrie? And Liz is like, I only saw her for a few minutes. And he goes, Judge, she only saw her for a few minutes.

He doesn't really know what's going on here. But there was later a second-degree arson charge that was added. and during both arraignments, Liz waived her right to a jury trial and instead requested a bench trial. And we just talked about that with McKenzie Shrilla, right? And it's kind of funny because this was obviously not planned, but it does almost come to this like delusional belief that you are, it's going to be easier for you to convince one person, aka a judge, than it is for you to convince like a jury of your peers. But I don't, I don't know if that was going to work out for either McKenzie or Liz. No, I also think there's this delusional optimism that they both display where they feel like maybe they have the ability to manipulate someone one-on-one. Yeah, just one person, maybe more people, like, you know you've already done it.

Do you also think it could be that they kind of understand, even though they lack complete self-awareness, that maybe they know they're unlikable and they don't want to risk it with a jury of their peers who are going to be like, wow, this person's delusional? I think that they are good with people one-on-one because on one-on-one you can say something, but then you can say it to a different person who you don't think is going to talk to that person, you can say something completely different. And you're like, the two shall never meet. So I don't really have to keep up with like much, you know, I don't have to really like do a lot of checks and balances. So you're just sitting in front of one judge, one person that you have to thoroughly manipulate

and convince that you're a victim here instead of a larger group of people who are going to then go and confer with each other and talk to each other about it. It's just one person. And you feel like you have a better chance with that when you're a manipulative person like McKenzie or Liz. Yeah, I agree. It's definitely this confidence that is not warranted, but they both have it. But listen, Liz's attorney later said, I wanted the case tried before Carrie's body could ever be found. So I wanted this to happen quick.

Yeah. So it's kind of like. Homicide is a lot harder to prove. It's kind of like the attorney maybe was like, I know my client's guilty. Yeah. Yeah. Wouldn't be the first time that a defense attorney knew their client was guilty. For the prosecution, the bench trial actually worked in their favor.

I think it often does. And I say that because now they would not have to present this incredibly bizarre case to a jury and hope people could follow it and believe something this unbelievable had really happened. The prosecutor later reflected on the case and said, quote, this was by far the most difficult case I've ever tried. Most homicides are dark. This one was bizarre to the point where it would take some convincing to make somebody believe that it had actually happened.

There's no way that someone would let their dog die in a fire that they started. There's no way that someone would shoot themselves in the femur, end quote. But there is. We have discovered that. I found the dog thing hard to. Have you met Liz yet? Yeah. Hello to Liz.

She calls her own children ugly to make a point. No, but it does make sense. on the surface, right? Like, it's going to be hard to convince an entire jury that this woman would do all these horrible things to herself. But that's looking at it from a rational perspective. And I've said this before, sometimes it's hard to rationalize the irrational. And that would be the case here. So you have to try to take that entire jury and put them in the mind of a person who is clearly not there. And that can be difficult. Yes, I agree. Yeah. I mean, it was difficult for us. Right? As we were going through, it, we were like, no, would she really, what she really let her dogs? Maybe that wasn't intentional.

Maybe she didn't. No, it was intentional. We project our own morality onto others. And that's the hard part when it comes to really understanding like what evil lives in somebody. So the investigation continued. And in February of 2017, Dave found a tablet with an SD memory card that Liz had access to while they were dating. So he turned it over to the police and Anthony Kava started looking into it. and Kava found no active files on the card, but he was able to recover more than 13,000 deleted photos and text messages. Now, the tablet itself did not have texting capabilities, which led Kava to realize the SD card must have been used in another device, and eventually he matched the card to Liz's cell phone, the same phone police downloaded data from back on January 8, 2013. So the files detectives could not access at that time were suddenly available and they included some incredibly damning evidence, which we are going to talk about when we come back from our last break.

You know what's weird about habits? Half the time you don't even realize you're doing them. It's unconscious. It's just become ingrained in you. Yeah, it's muscle memory. Exactly. Especially with smoking and vaping. It's not just the nicotine at some point.

It's the routine, that hand-to-mouth motion, the little pause, having something to reach for when you're stressed or bored even. And honestly, that is the thing that makes it really hard to break. Yeah, that's why fume is such an interesting idea when you really think about what it does for you and how it helps break that habit loop. Yeah, it's a flavored air device designed to help people quit smoking or vaping by interrupting that habit loop. There's no nicotine, no batteries, no vapor. it's just this really cool, like weighted, twisty, fidget-friendly device that gives your hands and brains something else to focus on when cravings hits. Yeah, and I have it right here. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see it.

If you're listening, you might be able to hear it. But real wood, real metal, it's got that weighted design like Stephanie was saying. It's got the magnets. Then you got the clicking motion. Oh, I love that sound. I try not to do it when we're recording. But if you really pay attention, sometimes you'll catch it in my hand. I just, it's something to keep me occupied while.

to Stephanie. And I love that the flavors are really light. It's not like sickeningly sweet or heavy or sticky. They're more like flavored water compared to soda. Crisp mint is the strongest flavor, especially if you're a heavier user, you have been in the past. But raspberry, that's kind of like my go-to. You know, I love the cream sickle one. I talk about that on the time. Orange vanilla. That's my personal favorite. But I call it cream sickle because it tastes exactly like a cream cycle. It does. It's exactly like a cream sickle. We love fume for so many reasons. Don't just try to quit. upgrade your habit loop, reach for Fume instead, and Fume has already helped over 700,000 people take steps toward better habits. Now it's your turn. Use our code Crime Weekly to get a free gift

with your journey pack. Head to tryfume.com. That's t-R-Y-F-U-M dot com and use code crime weekly to claim your free gift today. So we're back and we're talking about the SD card that Liz left in Dave's tablet. And like, yeah, she deleted the things, but once again, you were living with and dating an IT guy. You probably should have known that there's a possibility. Those things could be recovered. But like I said, damning evidence. So several of the recorded images appeared to show a blue and gray silver tarp, just like the one mentioned in the emails about what it happened to carry.

Another photo showed what looked like a flesh-colored object with a. yin yang symbol on it and kava compared the symbol in the image to a photo of the matching yin yang tattoo kerry had on her hip and they appeared highly consistent so another image showed a flesh colored object with a chinese symbol on it and kerry was known to also have the chinese symbol for mother tattooed on her left foot so kava compared the image to photos of kerry's tattoo and again they were consistent believing the image may show kerry's decomposing foot detectives consulted a forensic pathologist, and after reviewing the image, the pathologist agreed it was a decomposing foot, though from the photo, the pathologist couldn't determine how long the remains had been

decomposing. So understand what this means. Yeah. It doesn't look like, at least if Liz did any burning of the body, it doesn't look like it was a complete burn. And Liz put Carrie somewhere that she went back to. Yeah. And took photos. Yeah. It doesn't look like. she burned at least her entire body. And if there's decomposition, it can happen. It can happen relatively quickly depending on the conditions it's in, but it's not going to happen in a couple hours. No.

So either you put her somewhere and then moved her. Right. Or you put her somewhere and then went back. Yeah. This was after the fact. I have no doubt in my mind, she returned to wherever Carrie was. There's no doubt. She, in a way, kept Carrie as the trophy.

She wanted to go back. Yeah, she's taking pictures. So obviously she took a picture of a Ford Explorer. Yeah, this is a really, really sick individual. Obviously, we knew that from the jump. But this isn't just a crime of passion. There's a lot more going on here. So finding these images was a huge win for the prosecution, as it would now be easier

to prove at trial that Kerry was killed and that the person who wrote the emails about how the murder occurred, aka Liz, was to some extent at least telling the truth. So yes, it's a. No body crime, but still photographic evidence of a dead body. Yep, a dead body believed to be, at minimum, the foot of the person you're looking for. So in May of 2017, just a few months after detectives recovered those photos, Liz's bench trial began in Omaha, Nebraska. Over several days, prosecutors argued Liz was a, quote, diabolical and cruel woman, obsessed with Dave and unwilling to let him date other women. I would have described her a lot more in harsh terms.

diabolical and cruel is, is scratching the surface of what Liz is. She's a banana nut sundae with extranots. Like, she's crazy. So according to the prosecutors, Liz killed Carrie, then spent years pretending to be her while harassing multiple people and committing crimes, including arson, to cover up the murder. Prosecutors also argued that the emails Liz sent while posing as Amy were actually confessions, her own words describing the motive, manner, and mindset behind Carrie's murder. Yeah, we talked about this earlier, literally a written confession without the need to

Miranda is your subject because the subject is pretending to be someone else. It's a loophole. It's a loophole and it's brilliant. Yes. So the defense argued the prosecution's case was entirely circumstantial and maintained that Liz was innocent. There was no body, no murder weapon, no eyewitnesses. The defense did concede the blood inside Carrie's vehicle belonged to carry, but argued no one knew when it got there or how. So they did not dispute that Liz engaged in strange behavior. Instead, they argued, none of it proved murder. The defense also stressed that Liz was not on trial for stalking or burglarizing carries home. And beyond that, the defense presented no witnesses and no evidence and Liz chose to not testify. They relied solely on opening and closing statements centered on

the argument that the case was circumstantial, basically saying like you don't have enough. Like you got some stuff, but you don't have enough to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. They're playing it safe. I think the defense team is playing it a little safe. Now later, Liz's defense attorney explained why. He admitted he initially believed prosecutors had a weak case because Carrie's body had never been found, but his opinion changed as the trial unfolded. You said that. He was going to realize real fast that he's in trouble. His client's in trouble.

Yeah. He's like, listen, yes. Was she stalking? Was she sending crazy messages? Was she pretending to be other people? Sure. But that doesn't mean she. He's dangerous when in his head he's like, that is absolutely what it means.

That is absolutely what it means. Like if you brought up a forensic psychiatrist to testify on the mindset of somebody who was able to do all of the things that Liz did, that psychiatrist would say, yes, somebody who does all of these things definitely and absolutely has the potential to escalate to violence and murder. Yes. Liz's defense attorney said, quote, in my decades of practicing law, it's one of the most powerful presentations of circumstantial evidence that I've ever seen.

A.K. I got my ass handed to me. Yeah. He's like, it's circumstantial, but it's overwhelming. So it came as little surprise when the judge ultimately found Liz guilty of first-degree murder and second-degree arson. At sentencing, the judge said, quote, Carrie Farver did not voluntarily disappear and drop off the face of the earth. Very sadly, she was murdered. End quote. Now, Liz was sentenced to life in prison for first-degree murder and 18 to 20 years for arson.

to run concurrently, like at the same time. Right? Does that concurrently means at the same time? Yes. What's the other one? Consecatively is one after the other. So consecutive would be on top of each other. So if you got seven and seven, you'd get 14 years.

Concurrent means they're running at the same time. So when you start your prison sentence, they're running simultaneously. So it's like you got life in prison and then you get 18 to 20 years for the arson, but since you can't really add 18 to 20 years onto a life sentence, yeah. You'll be in prison and your 20 year sentence on the arson. run out. I don't know if there was like a chance that she would be able to get out, but basically, no, because even though the arson runs out, you're still in there for murder, because hence it's running concurrent. Yeah, but you can appeal and which she did, right? Liz later

appealed the conviction, once again arguing there was not enough evidence to find her guilty. The conviction was upheld. The court found there was more than enough evidence. Now, how do you think that, how do you think Liz is feeling today about this? You think Liz has come out and been like, I'm taking accountability. Absolutely not. No. No. To this day, Liz maintains her innocence and claims Carrie's real killer is still out there.

Author Leslie Rule later said that Liz sent her letters from prison, including one that said, quote, I will not stop fighting until I am set free and they find the right person, end quote. Thanks, Liz. We appreciate it. Don't use Todd's computer. Liz is something else because you'd think she'd want credit at this point. She's like, all right, I'm in prison for life. I kind of want people, like, it's going to be better for me if I somehow find a way to,

to, you know, capitalize this, like show how many puppet strings I was pulling and how long, I mean, two years that I had convinced Dave that this woman was stalking him and how I had, like, basically manufactured a bond in a relationship with him based on this. But once again, I wonder if there's some mental health issue here where she literally does something like she's fractured herself so that one part of her can do something and the other part of her can pretend to still be this good person. Like I would love to see a forensic psychiatrist or two or three analyze her and talk to her. I would love for that to happen. I vote for this to happen. So we don't want to end this series on Liz, though. Absolutely not. We want to bring it back to

our true victim, Carrie Farver. And to do that, I want to read part of the prosecutor's closing argument. She said, quote, for years, the defendant portrayed Carrie as a conniving, jealous, obsessed stalker. But all along it was her. She was all of those things, end quote, right? So Liz is portraying herself and trying to make it seem like Carrie. But what we know from Carrie, Carrie was nothing like that, right? Carrie was so chill, so laid back, so focused on herself and her child and her job and what, and the life that she wanted to build and her family and this bond that she had in this very special rich life that she had, even though things hadn't always gone the way she'd expected, this was nothing like Carrie. If Carrie and Dave had been dating and then one

day Dave got weird and was like, oh, I don't want a relationship. Carrie would have been like, peace. I value myself. I know what I'm worth. I know I'm smart. I know I'm beautiful. I know I'm an awesome caregiver to my son and I would be a great partner to any man. If you don't want that, then have fun with Liz, right? With women like Liz. So, Carrie, would never have done this. And it was Liz the whole time. So then the prosecutor showed a photo of Carrie. And then the prosecutor said, quote, this is the real Carrie Farver. She was a bright, beautiful, hardworking mother, sister, daughter, friend, co-worker. And her life was violently cut short by this defendant's twisted, obsessive, reprehensible acts of violence.

Carrie deserves justice. And so does Carrie's family. And quote. Once again, probably I would be describing Liz in a very different way. I consider this to be just evil. This is like demonic almost. Yeah, this is pure evil. Like what took you over? This is beyond obsessive. This is just there's something really, she needs to be studied. She needs to be studied. Yeah, I leave this series. It was a great series, by the way. He did an incredible job with it. My big takeaway is that on one hand, a lot of the series was about how crazy Liz was. Rightfully so. This is a case I've never come across, something like this.

This was deep. I think it's important to show that though. So if people see this kind of behavior in someone, they can kind of not look at it as innocent. But I also like how you highlighted how investigators solved it. There was a lot of different tactics used. There was some problems in the beginning that weren't the fault of the investigators that we talked about later.

And they got it right. But my big, big takeaway is Carrie's family, her mom. her son Max, and the fact that even though we're sitting here, what, 14 years later, right? 14 years later, 14 plus years later, and we still don't have Carrie. She still hasn't been reunited with their family. She hasn't been given a proper burial or cremation, whatever the family believes in, right? There's still that unknown of where is she? And there is a person who has the ability to fix that.

And unfortunately, it's the person you've talked about this whole series. I truly hope, and I don't have a lot of hope this is going to happen, but I'm wishful that at some point Liz will come forward and say, yeah, you know what? I'm going to show you exactly what I did for how long and how I got away with it like I did for so long and tells everyone where Kerry currently is. I agree. Because they can still go back there, they can still recover, whatever remains are there, and reunite. her with her family so that Max and the rest of her family know that she's now with them and they can they can remember her in that way not thinking that she's still out there somewhere waiting to be found yeah I mean that is weird like it's like Liz was so dumb in some ways but also

it's so good at covering her tracks in other ways yeah the body's never found you know what what happened like where did it take place they were never really able to because she wouldn't admit to it. They were never really able to state all of that. There's still so much about this. There's so much about this case we know almost like too much at some point. And then there's still so much that we don't know. And that's very unsettling.

And maybe that's why she refuses to come forward and say what happened because it still gives her this thrill of power that she's withholding carry from the people that love her. You know, I got to go back and I apologize. but the photos that were taken of the of Carrie's decomposing foot. Did you say that was on an SD card or was that a Polaroid? So that was an SD card found in a tablet of Dave's that Liz had used and had access to. I'm just surprised that there wasn't a way to extract the metadata from that photo to determine when it was taken. And the reason to me that would be so important was then you could compare it to the cell phone coordinates. of Liz's phone, potentially, if she revisited that location, you could go back, you could have

subpoenaed her records and determined what in that minimum. Maybe we should call up this police department and give them some tips. I mean, they could have triangulated at least the area where she, it can't be that far, right? It has to be in close proximity. But if you see her out of place in that time frame, that's an area you need to focus on. Now, there's a real strong possibility at some point. She did go back there and either burn her body or dispose of it. some capacity so that it wouldn't be found.

And maybe that's why she's not telling us. But there's still a chance that we could find her or at least something to suggest that she was there and give that back to her family. That's where my brain is right now. That's the only thread that needs to be pulled a little harder to try to bring Carrie home. And maybe there's a chance to do it. Maybe someone listening watching this episode who's involved in the cases.

Yeah. We have so many people who do this stuff just like for how. hobbies that are so good at it, you know, extracting metadata. I've seen it in true crime cases all the time. There's got to be a way that somebody could donate their time or help carries family out. They have people. They have people who can do it. I have people who can do it.

I mean, we can definitely do that. And the final angle would be just trying to go to Liz and appeal to something in her, to have her remove those self-serving perspectives that she basically operates on a daily basis with and say, hey, for one minute, think about Max. Think about Carrie's mom. Think about everyone who's still wondering where she is. You can end that suffering right now. I don't know.

I don't think it would work, but wishful thinking. Overall, it was a really good story. I'm glad you took the time to go over everything. You proved me wrong. I didn't see how this was going to be four episodes. But now I'm almost thinking there could be a fifth part if you really wanted to. This trial must have been something to see. Oh, yeah.

And I mean, it's a bench trial. So it's not even like they're putting out all this evidence, really. It's just, yeah, I mean, I would be curious as to what's happened since. And if Carrie's family has, like, enlisted the help of private detectives or other people to track down her body, I'm sure they have. And I feel like there would be ways to do it. Or, yeah, like you said, the metadata would be the obvious first place to start. The metadata in the photo compared to the locations of her phone at those times. There's got to be a way.

There's got to be a way to say, hey, you know what? she visited this like wooded area on multiple occasions around this date and time that that photo was taken. It doesn't metadata have geographical like coordinates? Some of it does. But we're talking 2012. It may not have a longitude and longitude. But overall, you're still going to have a date in time that the photo was taken as long as the iPad was set up. And I'm assuming it was or this tablet.

Maybe not an iPad. Well, it was a, so it was a tablet that she took the SD card out of her phone and put it in the tablet. So it looks like she downloaded all that stuff. off her phone onto the SD card and then put it in the tablet, which at that point, because she's giving her phone to the police, so at that point, you're giving her phone to the police so you don't want them to see the pictures of Carrie's decomposing body, so you put them on an SD card instead of just erasing them, and that shows you. She wanted these things. And then she puts them in a tablet of Dave's that she's using so she can look at them again. And you're going to tell me this is just

reprehensible and like obsessive. No, this woman is crazy. She's evil. And because it was on a phone, It's definitely the metadata is absolutely going to contain day in time. And maybe, like you said, the coordinates. But I would imagine, based on the thorough job that Doty and Avis did, if that were the case, they would have found her. I mean, I have to believe that there's something more to the story we don't know. However, it's not a problem to mention it. So we'll throw it out there. Maybe something resonates with someone or they think of a different angle to go here.

But overall, appreciate you covering the case. We appreciate you guys being here with us for this entire. series. If you like what we're doing over here and you haven't already, please like, comment, subscribe if you're watching on YouTube. Head on over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave a review. We really appreciate that as well. It helps people see what we're doing over here. It gives us more exposure to someone who hasn't discovered us yet. And also, if you're already subscribed, double check it because we've been getting a lot of comments again that people are like, hey, I had to go hunting for your episodes because they weren't popping up. So,

take a second, do that. We would greatly appreciate it. We're going to be back next week with a new series. Until then, everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you soon. Bye. Thank you.