Crime Weekly - Mackenzie Shirilla | New Netflix Doc ‘The Crash’ Reignites Debate

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

On July 31, 2022, Dominic Russo and Davion Flanagan were killed in Strongsville, Ohio, when Mackenzie Shirilla intentionally drove her car into a brick wall at over 100 mph. Both men were pronounced dead at the scene. Judge Nancy Margaret Russo found Shirilla guilty of 12 felony counts and sentenced her to two concurrent life sentences with the possibility of parole after 15 years. Try our coffee! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: https://www.BollandBranch.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for 20% off your first order PLUS free shipping! https://www.SKIMS.com/CrimeWeekly - Shop Everyday Cotton, and all of my favorite bras and underwear! #skimspartner After you place your order, let them know we sent you! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derek Labasser. And I'm Stephanie Harlow. And we're going to be talking about a case today that is all over the internet. I'll give you a quick summary here. On a summer morning in July of 2022 in the quiet suburb of Strongsville, Ohio, a black Toyota Camry made a slow, deliberate turn down an industrial road and then accelerated. In less than half a mile, it hit 100 miles per hour. Seconds later, it slammed into the brick wall of a warehouse with such force that two young men inside were killed instantly. The driver, a 17-year-old, walked away with her life, and eventually a murder conviction. Her name was McKenzie Shrilla, and the boys in the car were her boyfriend, Dominic Russo, and his best friend Davian

Flanagan. And the question that prosecutors, investigators, and now Netflix have spent the last four years trying to answer is a simple one, but with a chilling answer. Was this a tragic accident, or was it murder? And before we start talking about it, shout out to my brother Matt, who was watching our last, our Brandy Hall series. Like I said, he was a firefighter. I told him he was mentioned in it. So, you know, he had to go watch it. And he agrees with everything we said, by the way, what Randall did that day.

And as far as the communications and turning on his portable radio, absolutely. He's like, yeah, dude, I have no investment. That guy was not in the building. But that's a side note. And then he switched it up and said, hey, man, have you watched this documentary on Netflix yet? And I'm like, oh, I'm not really into the, you know, true crime documentaries. And he's like, you have to watch this. You have to watch it.

It just came out. It's great. So I'm like, okay, I'll watch it. I'll let you know what I think. I watched it. It was really well done. The story itself is crazy. So then I, when Stephanie got home from her vacation, I'm like, hey, you have to watch this Netflix, Doc.

And we have to talk about it this week because everybody is going to be talking about it. And here we are. And I did. I watched it. You did. And you were about to start talking. talking about it on the phone. And I was like, wait, let's wait until we're recording. Well, that's what I, because it's in my head and I'm like, I got to talk this out.

So basically the documentary released May 15th, 26. It's directed by Gareth Johnson. And it revisits this July 2020 incident in Strongsville, Ohio, where 17-year-old McKenzie Shrilla drove her car at over 100 miles per hour into a brick building. It killed her boyfriend, Dominic, Rousseau, and his friend, Davian Flanagan. So McKenzie, actually survived. Surprisingly, yeah. Yeah, which we're going to talk about that. But she was convicted of murder in a 23 bench trial. She actually chose a bench trial. And then she was sentenced to life with parole eligibility after 15 years. That's right. So here's the backstory. All three of them, Dom and McKenzie and Davion, they were at a party. So some people say it's a graduation party,

McKenzie refers to it as a sleepover. Yeah, that's what our friend Rosie did as well. Yeah, that's what they would do. They would kind of do these parties or get-togethers, chill hangouts, whatever, and they'd get together. And then it was around, I guess, 5.30 in the morning that Dom McKenzie and Davian got into McKenzie's car to, I guess, head back home. So McKenzie was driving. Dom was in the passenger seat.

Davian was in the back. and McKenzie turned from Pearl Road onto Progress Drive. And this was a pretty normal sort of driving. It was controlled. It was deliberate. Yeah, she used her banker. Mm-hmm. Yep.

And then she somehow wore the car accelerated to 100 miles per hour, which is crazy. Yeah. And this isn't the longest road ever. It was she pedal to the floor. Yeah. Pedal to the metal. So now we have this car accident. I watched the documentary, and it opens up basically with body cam footage from the cops.

Having to let the parents of these kids know that their children, their two sons are dead. And that broke me. So right away, I'm like, freaking Derek, man. Like, I didn't. I just got home from vacation. I'm in an okay mindset. And now you got me real messed up because the one mother was like, you're lying, right? Like, this is, like, she couldn't wrap her head around it.

That was McKenzie's mom. That was at the hospital. That was McKenzie's mom and dad. And basically they were at the hospital because McKenzie was there. Yes. And they were asking who else was she alone in the car? Were there other people? And they were very close with Dom.

So obviously that's why they had that reaction. And yeah, you know, you could just, you couldn't, I don't know. It was really, it was upsetting to see. So McKenzie's in the hospital and she's the only one that survived. I read through the report and everything, the police report. And when they got to the car at the initial crime scene or accident scene, the police and the paramedics, they were like, this is one of the worst things we've ever seen ever. Davian was in the back seat, but from the force of the car, it looks like he kind of had flown upwards. So he was laying on top of Dom, who was sitting in the front seat and the passenger seat was reclined all the way back.

So Dom was in the passenger seat. And I think Davian was still alive when they extracted them from the car. And then they called in ambulances. But by the time the helicopter came, Davian had passed away. And McKenzie gets brought to the hospital. And then the police question her. And she says she doesn't remember anything that happened. Yeah, she asked for a lawyer too pretty quickly as well.

Well, the parents, they were like, you know. Yeah, maybe we should have a lawyer. But then they gave her phone over to the police right away. Right, which, you know, not great. No, this incident is very similar to an incident that I experienced as a police officer. Three students, high school students, actually attended the same high school that I attended, speeding at night and came around a turn too fast, had a telephone pole. And when we got there, driver, they were all crushed in the car. Two people in the car died. Driver survived. They hit on the passenger side of the pole. and the back passenger was alive when we got there.

And they didn't even know how bad it was. But before, same exact thing, within seconds, he was gone. And it shook up the community, especially our high school. So this is the unfortunate thing as a patrolman that you could run into potentially. And you can see the reaction from the patrolman when he got there. He thinks he's responding to an accident. And then he gets there and realizes what he just walked into. And he said the car looked like it was.

almost cut in half. Yeah. Yeah. Split in two. Yeah. And there's a lot. We're going to talk about it all. There's a lot, even from that body cam footage that you can dissect and then other body cam footage where you can start to put together a picture of what transpired, even though we also have a lot of footage from the entire night, including the accident itself, which I think is why this, this documentary is so compelling because you don't have to, you don't have to think about what it was or what happened. You don't have to envision it in your head. It's, yeah. It's bad. And I mean, initially when something like this happens, right, you've got McKenzie was 17 and Dom was 20 and I think that Davian was 19.

So you've got some young kids and they just came from a, you know, a hangout or graduation party and you're thinking, well, alcohol, drugs. Like something had to have been involved at play here. But pretty shortly after McKenzie gets to the hospital and then the responding police officer goes to the hospital and he's told, okay, her blood alcohol level, She was not, yeah, no alcohol is involved here. But then they found in her, in the car, and on McKenzie's person, they found marijuana. And they found mushrooms. Yeah, magic mushrooms, right? So then we're thinking, well, maybe drugs are involved.

Right. But then that comes back negative as well. She had THC in her system, but she was a habitual smoker. She smoked every single day. So that wouldn't have, that wouldn't have messed up her driving. So they said she smoked every day and also, um, drove while. They played a frigging montage in the Netflix doc of just her just smoking out of a bomb.

Yeah, they sure did. Yeah, which is crazy to me to be that young. And that her parents were like, I, we understand. We know she smoked. It's also weird, okay, because she really, yeah. I know, Jared was like, I hate the parents. I'm not going to tell you anything. I hate the parents.

And I'm like, I am going in with an open mind. And at first I was like, oh, they're not that bad. And then I was like, oh, these are Casey Anthony's parents. is why they're enablers. Yeah. There were enablers for sure. And then there's like this contradictory element to basically McKenzie where she's so concerned about her health and eating right and all these things.

And, you know, you can say what you want about weed. You know, some people believe in it. Some people don't, whatever. But what we do know, because it was said in the dock, is that she was smoking so much that she had like black or blood coming up. And so she was actually on a break from smoking because of it. So it's like you're eating all this healthy food, but you're doing something that's making you sick, whatever.

It just kind of felt like they let her do whatever she wanted. So she's 17 years old. They let her move in with her boyfriend, who's 20. Can we talk about that, though? Because I mentioned it in Instagram. That's fine, 17, 20. I still don't love it, but. I don't think she should be living with him, though.

But no, but Stephanie, they started dating when she was 13. That's fine. But when you're 18, you can move out and live with your boyfriend, but you're 17. What do you think about the fact that she was 13 and he was 17? I mean, I don't like it. I don't like it. Okay, because Tenley's 13. Yeah.

I mean, I have a 14-year-old son. If she came home and told me she had a boyfriend and he's 17 years old, that's a big difference developmentally. Yeah. So even allow that. And they said things like, oh, well, he had money. He had money. Because we knew, you know, she likes money.

She likes things. She likes designer things. Like, we knew that that boy had money. Yeah. Mm-mm. Don't like it. I was like, these guys are morons. And then you'd go to the school.

Did you do it? Oh, I know in my daughter's line. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's it. I was just about, I was just about, like, she's getting in trouble for bullying. There's all these people like, she bullied me and my friends for no reason. And then they're like, yeah, we had to go to the school. And I said, McKenzie, did you do it?

And she was like, no, daddy. Of course not. And he was like, and I know my daughter. She would never. I mean, and then her mother's like, she was a good kid, no problems, except for her mouth. You know, it's like, well, yeah. So they're clearly enablers. Like I said, these are Casey Anthony's parents.

the same kind of situation. And I get not wanting to be, you know, these authoritarian parents, but there is a point where you're like, all right, like, do, am I trying to put a good person out into the world or am I trying to put a monster into the world? Now, here's the thing. She says she doesn't remember what happens, okay? Right. Well, she remembers turning on to the street.

She remembers turning on the street and then it faded to black. That's it. Okay. So they start getting suspicious, though, because they had her phone now. And they're kind of like looking at it. stuff on the phone and they're kind of getting an idea of who she is and what she's all about. And then it comes to light that, hey, her and Dom, her boyfriend were having some issues. And just that same month, she had been driving him in a car and a family friend had to go pick him up

because they were fighting in the car. And the family friend could hear Dom on the phone because he was in the car with McKenzie still. And McKenzie was like, I'm going to crash this car. Yeah, Hensch. Okay. So the family friend, this was just a few weeks before this happened. So, but then you talk to people who were at the party.

They were talked to and they said, yeah, McKenzie and Dom weren't fighting. There was no issue. Well, Rosie's another one. It was Rosie, basically. Rosie didn't want to talk to the police, man. Rosie's never talked to the prosecutor. Doesn't want, you know, nothing to hide but not willing to speak to anybody. Except for Netflix.

Okay, except for Netflix, yeah, which the prosecutor was great on that too. He's like, oh, she spoke to you. Can't wait to hear what she has to say. That's amazing. He's like, we've been trying to talk to Rosie forever. Yeah. So here's the thing that really kind of ties everything in. Because you could look at it and you could say, all right, well, she was a kid.

You know, she talks on her phone. They're fighting. They're young. Whatever. That's not going to be this thing that's going to kind of put the nail in her coffin. But then you've got the event data recorder. Basically the black box of the car. And this captures the final five seconds before the impact.

And this is the prosecution's centerpiece during the trial. So the accelerator was pressed at 100% capacity, like Derek said, pedals of the metal, and it was held there for an extended period of time. Yep, the entire time. The brakes were never tapped, not once. Not once, yep. Steering wheel turned slightly, left, then right, before being straightened out for the final stretch into the building. And so investigators interpreted this back and forth steering as possible evidence that Dom and Davian tried to grab the wheel and force a hard. hard right turn more than once to avoid the crash. As in like possibly McKenzie was stepping on the

accelerator like, I'm going to crash this car and the two other passengers in the car were trying to prevent this from happening. And surveillance footage from the surrounding businesses, because this is an industrial area, it backed that up. So the car made a controlled, deliberate turn and then accelerated for nearly half a mile before impact. So now we have this data, right? But still, okay, and I want to talk about this data with you, Derek, because I know you've, you've, You've looked at it and you've kind of analyzed it. But still, I'm not 100% sold on what happened here. And I'm going to tell you why.

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slash crime weekly with code crime weekly. That's bol and branch, B-O-L-L-L-A-N-D-B-B-Ranch.com slash Crime Weekly, Code Crime Weekly to get 20% off. Bowlingbranch.com slash crime weekly, code crime weekly. Exclusions apply. All right. So we're back. So McKenzie, once again, she has no memory of this. And when we have her trial was only four days, I believe.

So her mother testified that she had been diagnosed with pots. So this is a nervous system disorder. It can cause sudden dizziness, blackouts. She had been diagnosed with pots in 2017. And her mother was like, well, maybe this caused a medical emergency and she lost consciousness. But the judge of the bench trial didn't really buy it. And a lot of people have said, like, listen, if you're losing consciousness, how are you pushing your foot down on the gas, right? Contradictory.

The two don't go hand in hand. Yeah. You're passing out and you're not in control of the vehicle or you are. Make up your mind. Yeah, because this isn't, once again, this isn't even like, oh, I passed out in my foot. Maybe I slumped forward and my foot slightly pushed down. It's like, no, all the way down. And at trial, McKenzie's lawyer did raise this issue of the 2017 Potts diagnosis.

This is something to do with like your autonomic nervous system, blood pressure. It can, I looked into it and I've heard about it before. It can cause sudden lightheadedness or brief blackouts. But here's the problem. McKenzie did not testify. Her mother testified about it. but McKenzie didn't testify. And the defense never put an actual expert medical testimony like forward during that trial

showing that she had blacked out at the time of the crash. So here's another thing, though, because more stuff has happened after the trial. So I want to talk about this potential, this potential that she had, you know, in medical emergency before we kind of get into it. So there is real medical evidence now pointing towards a possible. blackout or maybe even a seizure. But it is contested and it came after McKenzie's conviction. And so it's never been weighed against the prosecution's case in court. In April, the defense filed a supplemental post-conviction relief petition built around this doctor, Dr. Kamal. And Dr.

Kamal had said that he looked at the medical evidence and he's a neurologist at University Hospital in Cleveland, in his conclusion was that the evidence was consistent with loss of consciousness at the time of impact, and he pointed to three specific findings. Elevated lactate levels, abnormally low blood oxygen. I think if I remember correctly, her blood oxygen level was 82, and a normal blood oxygen level is 95. And then complete amnesia following the incident, which for me, that's not a specific finding because she could just say she has complete amnesia after the incident.

That would be the smart thing to do. Yeah, but Dr. Kamali is saying she's got elevated lactate levels and abnormally low blood oxygen. And then this to him says that these are classic markers of a seizure or a similar autonomic event. And the defense says, you know, this is actually the kind of expert evidence that McKenzie's original attorney should have presented, but they didn't. And so I could see an area where it's like, you got a bad lawyer.

And they didn't prepare for trial. And they should have put more evidence, like from experts and medical experts forward. And that may have changed the tide. Maybe. But here's. Yeah. I mean, this was dismissed. So this post-conviction relief petition was built around the doctor's findings.

And the judge, Nancy Russo, rejected it. But not because it was not without merit. it's because the filing was submitted one day past the statutory deadline. So the court ruled it time barred as a matter of law, meaning like it couldn't go through. So there's so much to unpack here. And I mean, we could talk about this. It's borderline of crime weekly episode. So I'm going to try to be concise.

I may miss some things. But here's the problem with that whole theory. First, let's go back to the EDR. One other thing you didn't mention was the fact that the shifter went from drive to neutral back to drive. in addition to this left, right, left movement. And you can also see from the body cam footage that at the last moment, the vehicle veered to the right, even before the intersection, it went over the grass,

then went on the road, and then went into the building. So there was movement at that last moment to try to do something, whatever it was, a fight over the wheel, whatever you have, there was something going on there. And I did a TikTok, I did an Instagram, even if we're looking at the EDR, in my Instagram and TikTok, I had said that I believed, and the prosecutor laid this out, that the movements of that steering wheel could indicate a struggle over the wheel.

I'm going to amend that a little bit. And I'm going to tell you why. And this was something that I kind of came to this morning. If you look at progress drive, it's not that long of a road. And we kind of, we're doing surface level here, but there's camera footage of this whole thing, guys. If you haven't seen it, there's cameras all along this road up to the point where they hit the building. surrounded by businesses. Yep.

And so it's like an industrial area. And so this road's not that long. And what you'll notice is that progress drive, as they take a right off of Pearl onto progress, the road is mostly straight until about the last maybe 300 feet before this intersection. And what you will notice, if you're watching on YouTube right now, is the progress drive when it comes to this Almeida drive, the intersection there.

at the last moment, if you're traveling down this road, it kind of has a bend to it. And if you're driving the vehicle, you would have to go left and then turn the wheel right to straighten it back out and then write a little bit more based on the angle they went. So when we think about five seconds at the rate of speed they were going, I think that five seconds is actually showing you that last little bend before going directly into the building. And what does that tell us? it contradicts the idea that there was someone behind the wheel who wasn't conscious. They consciously made that turn to go around that bend so they would make it to the wall. Otherwise, they would have went up on the grass right at that bend and they didn't.

So I've amended my theory on what I think happened slightly to, I definitely think Davian and Dom were awake in the car. If you look at that footage when they're making the turn, there appears to be a light illuminating from the vehicle. it looks to me like it's the passenger side, which would suggest a phone that maybe Dom was on his phone. Well, Davy and all his friends said that he was talking to him on Snapchat, like pretty much, yeah. And he could have had his phone out too. But what you're seeing in the camera footage, and obviously infrared's a little weird, but it looks to me like it's coming from the passenger seat. And so I think they're up. And by the way, they didn't have their seatbelts on, I don't believe.

However, McKenzie did, which I guess she didn't normally wear her seatbelt. We're going to talk about that as well. but I think they're driving down that road and as soon as she makes that turn she steps on the gas and for the first like 15 seconds they're rationalizing with her what are you doing stop slow down don't be stupid this isn't that serious

and it's not until the last second when they realize she's not going to stop and I do think that's when someone grabs the steering wheel snaps it to the right and it hits the building at that angle but I think that first left right is actually McKenzie adjusting the wheel adjusting the vehicle to go around that bend on progress drive, which to me is even more damning

to the idea that this was a medical emergency. Couple that with the fact that she had her foot to the floor, 100% acceleration the entire time is highly suggestive that she was doing that intentionally. If she had passed out, you would expect her to go limp. Even if she had a seizure would be intermittent. There'd be moments where it might be 95% pressure, 84% pressure, back to 100. It's consistent the entire five seconds, 100% foot to the floor. And I think there's a lot there that says this was deliberate. The motive is a little gray. That's why it's so fascinating because it doesn't make a lot of sense. And what I said in my TikTok was, and this is speculative, and I want your opinion on this, Stephanie. And you guys weigh in in the comments as well, because everybody's different.

I'm a night owl. Stephanie knows that. I sleep in. For me, they got to Rosie's house late or the friend's house late. I don't know if it was Rosie's house, but Rosie was there. Yeah, they got there. It wasn't Rosie's house, but it was like 1130. 1130. And originally they had asked her to bring shrooms and maybe some weed. But then they said it, then they said by the time they thought about taking them, it was too late. Yes. So they came there. That's why they still had the shrooms in the car, right? Because they didn't, they didn't eat them. And so to me, they get there late. They don't do the shrooms. They smoke a little weed. They watch TV, whatever they do. I find it odd that at five o'clock in the morning,

they abruptly decide to leave and Davian says, I'm going to go with him, I'm going to go shower. I find that odd. You just got to bed a couple hours prior. You don't have anywhere to be in the morning. Why are you guys rushing to get out of there? It's completely just a guess on my part. But I do wonder if something happened or something was discovered or a conversation was had where there was an argument. And they were like, F it, we're getting out of here.

Now, maybe that's why Rosie doesn't want to speak. But if there was an argument, you know, it doesn't seem like that was kind of building up. Everybody said they were fine. So like when did the argument start? Who started it? Who was it between? Right. But it could have been right at 5 in the morning where they're like, we're getting out of here.

The one friend whose house it was, he said he went to bed and then he woke up around like three or four and McKenzie was sleeping. And Davian was watching something on TV with another person. And then he didn't see Dom anywhere. And then he went back to bed. And when he woke up later that morning, everybody was gone. So where was Dom at that point when Davian's watching TV and McKenzie sleeping? Yeah, what happened? Did McKinsey wake up and see something?

Did Dom sneak off with someone maybe? Because there was some allegations that he had cheated on McKenzie. In the past. In the past when they first started. Yeah. And then Dom's mother had testified and said, hey, that McKenzie was getting very, like, jealous and possessive of Dom in the weeks leading up to this car crash. Oh, look at some of the videos.

She just was very manipulative, took advantage of the situation, a different person behind closed doors when she didn't know she was being recorded. Very like materialistic, yeah. But to me, when we're trying to pinpoint when things went south, I do point to that five o'clock window. Also, unfortunately, we don't know what was being said in the car because everyone other than McKenzie is dead. One of the thing I wanted to point out that was, you know, the time constraints, you know, in these documentaries, but it was, it was something that was brought up during court.

And that's the fact that this progress drive, it is on the way home. And normally it can be a shortcut. Yes. If there's traffic. The cops said that some people use it as a shortcut. Yeah. And they usually don't go to the speed limit. Yeah.

But here's the problem, right? The speed limit, I think, was 25, 35. But here's the issue with this. If there's no traffic, it's not a shortcut. it actually would take longer to get to where they're going. So why take that road that night, that night? And I bring that up because maybe if you want to avoid main roads in the police, you know, if you hadn't been smoking weed, I don't know.

That's possible. Or another, this is what the prosecutor said. They said that she had visited that street in the days prior to this incident. And to them, that could be an indication of premeditation. But at minimum, what I have said is there's a familiarity with that road. she would have known the T intersection was coming up. So you couldn't even go towards like reckless driving where she was just driving fast,

not paying attention, didn't realize. If you could prove premeditation, yeah. But I'm saying if there's no premeditation, I'm just saying she would know the road. Let's take a break. And then I want to talk about this because I have issues with it. You know, once again, she was convicted.

She is in prison. She talked to Netflix for in prison. Yes. We thought we might get some, you know, monumental. No, she's like, I don't remember. Nope. We'll take a break. We'll come back.

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Let me go check it out. So you can shop the everyday cotton and all of my favorite bras and underwear at skims.com. So after you place your order, be sure to let them know that we sent you, select podcast in the survey, and then be sure to select our show Crime Weekly in the drop-down menu that follows. Once again, that is skims.com and then select podcast in the survey. and be sure to tell them Crime Weekly sent you. We're back. So while I am with you, every step of the way as far as the data goes, and it appears that this was intentional and that she hit on the gas, and you said the motive, it's kind of like, yeah, blurry.

I agree. The motive is blurry. It's like, okay, you've been fighting, you've had some, but you've been together four years. You live together. It probably is not the first rough patch you've had. And here's the thing, a hundred miles per hour into a brick wall, there was zero ability for McKenzie to intentionally do that and know for a fact that she would survive. Oh, no, I think she intentionally tried to kill herself. You think she wanted to kill herself too.

I do. Really? I do. I think it was like, if I can't have you, nobody can will die together, a Romeo and Juliet type thing. Not exactly, but you can't, you can't think you can't think you're. going to hit a wall at that speed and think you're going to survive. And she's going to kill the friend too, like Davian. That is odd to me. And that is something else that his parents had talked about. Like if that was her plan, or even if it was just in that moment, why not let him out? Why, why not,

why would you take him with you? Yeah. And so here's my thing. Like, when she first got out of the car when they extracted her and the paramedic was taking her vitals and he said she was confused, I guess the first thing she said was, how is Davian? that's the first thing she said. So it sounded like she was checking on him. So maybe her intention was, and that's why she had her seatbelt on, hoping to maybe survive it and just kill Dom. But she was worried about Davian.

I don't know. Like, see to me, that's it. I'm not saying, like, I know this girl and she had a lot to live for. She's 17, right? And she does technically have a lot to live for. So could this possibly have been a thing where, and I, listen, I've been in a car with someone like this before. It's abusive. It's manipulating.

It's controlling. They use reckless driving to scare you. And it works because they're in complete control of your life at that point. And it works because they're in complete control. Exactly. Could it have been a thing where like a few weeks prior where she was like, I'm going to wreck this car just to kind of show her boyfriend, Dom, like, I'm mad. you're bringing me to this place again, not intending to actually hit a wall. And I know you said that the prosecution has evidence that she was possibly there before,

which suggests premeditation. I just can't wrap my head around like, oh, I'm so mad at my boyfriend. I'm going to kill everyone in this car, including myself. That's very hard. In that case, you would expect that in that last moment that there would be some attempt to not hit the wall, a.k.a. hit the break. No. All they did was I think the veer of the steering wheel.

Let's talk about reconstruction too, right? Because it goes into what I'm going to say here. The slight veering off the road, that's not her attempting to miss the wall. That's Davian or Don grabbing the wheel. Grabbing the wheel. Because what we know from the way they were found, and you hit on this earlier, and I think this is fascinating. You have Dom in the front seat. You have Davian on top of him in the front seat.

And then what's also interesting is that you have McKenzie in the driver's side, but she's under the dashboard. In Dom's lap, basically, like under the passenger side dashboard. Oh, is it the passenger side? I thought she was still on the driver's side. But either way, that even makes it more compelling because if you know what you're about to do and your natural reaction is to brace for it as you're pushing your foot on the gas, you're going to duck down. And which way are you going to duck? Okay, so I'm going to read from the police report. The responding officer ran to the driver's side, saw the legs in lower torso of what appeared to be the female driver.

The upper half of the driver's body was on the passenger side underneath the passenger dashboard, which was caved in on top of her. So hear me out. Now we're getting somewhere. A second before you hit that wall, you know you're about to. You keep your foot on the gas. And you get down. You lean over. And when you lean over, that's why the shifter goes into neutral for a second and then back to

drive. It's your body crossing over the shifter. And then you hit the wall. But at no point do you hit the brake. And so she's bracing for it. Dom and Davian are fighting with her to try to get the steering wheel. That's why it veers to the right. Well, the passenger front seat was also lowered, reclined all the way back. So was Dom sleeping? He might have been sitting like that. A lot of the times, even me back in the day, I'd have my seat all the way reclined back. But it seems to me like Davian being where he was, maybe he lunged forward to try to grab the steering wheel. Because he was found in the front. passenger seat, right? Basically on top of Dom.

And you guys got to remember this. Like she's, you know, what? I don't even know, 100 pounds soaking wet. She's tiny. And you got a running back for the high school. Dom's a good size kid. But yet, they can't do much to her because she's got her foot on the gas. She's in control.

Yeah. She's got your life in her hands. And so there's not much you can do. You can't punch her in the face. It's going to cause you guys to crash. So at that moment, you're still hoping you can get out of it okay. And I think for me, When I look at it and I said this, you know, it's not 100% certainty what happened here.

But I think with the totality of what we have, it leans in the direction of this was deliberate. And that's why I think she got 15 years for Dom and 15 years for Davian. But what was important is that the judge made it concurrent, not consecutive. And that's important because it goes from a minimum sentence of 15 to 30 if she had went consecutive. And I think she's looking at it where she sees. a young girl without any remorse, her bonehead parents sitting behind her, trying to make excuses for her. Yeah, blindly believing everything she says.

And knowing that this girl, if it wasn't for her, if she doesn't believe this was a medical issue, whether it was reckless driving, an argument, deliberate, whatever it was, she is the reason that those two boys are dead. And there's no way she could let her walk away from this without any consequences. So at minimum, she's got 15 years to think about what she's. did and hopefully mature, but I will say, based on the interview, she's not there yet. So what do you think about the prosecution basically saying that they think she did it for attention? They kind of tried to make it, or at least the documentary, kind of made it seem like

definitely showed no remorse, right? And I think that's where a lot of the hatred towards McKenzie comes in. I mean, she was doing selfies like of dead people or like Halloween three months after this happened. And trying to get like partnerships online. Like I'm excited. It It reminded me of, it reminded me a lot of Michelle Carter. I'm not sure if you are familiar with that. It's actually a New England case with Conrad Roy, the text messages. He was in the truck. She's like, kill yourself.

And then she tried to use his death to be like, my boyfriend. And I'm devastating to get attention. No doubt that is McKenzie for sure. And that's why she's so unlikable. Does that mean that she intentionally did it? Or is she capitalizing? I don't think if, I don't think you hit that wall thinking you're going to survive. It's really difficult for me, and this could just be me and where I'm at, to look at this girl and be like,

she knowingly drove into a brick wall at 100 miles per hour, not knowing that you're going to walk out of there alive, right? Because, you know, the documentary kind of made it seem like she knew she was going to walk out alive and she wanted to get the attention and this, this and that. She wanted to be a star, she wanted to be a model, she wanted to be a social media influencer. You'd have to know you were going to survive. How would you know that? How would you know that? There's no way you could. Or that you wouldn't be like disabled.

You know, good luck with your modeling career now when you're disfigured or the car caught on fire. You know, you don't know what's going to happen. Do they have information from her phone where she's like looking up? Oh, how can I survive a car crash? If they had that kind of stuff, which I would, you know, I watched the trial and I kind of went through each day that doesn't look like they have that kind of stuff. it's so hard for me to look at this girl and say, this is what she intended to either, A, kill all three of them, or B, kill the two boys in the car with her and survive. To kind of summarize this, what do you think happened then? Because if it's not that, then you're leaning towards a medical episode and there's no evidence to support it. I'm not leaning towards a medical episode.

So what is it? You saw that camera footage. You see that car driving down that road. You see a her slipper stuck to the floor pedal. I'm wondering if she was just trying to scare them and once again be manipulative, have like their lives in her hands feel powerful. She just misread the how much road she had left? And she misread how, yeah, like maybe she, maybe it was dark, maybe she didn't see, maybe she wasn't familiar with the area. Like, I don't know.

Well, they pushed back on that because she had driven that road before. I would say there is a possibility that she was trying to scare Dom because they were arguing. Like she had done before, yeah. And she didn't anticipate how quickly that ending was coming at the end of the road. I mean, even if she's used to driving high, right, it's still dulls and slows down your reaction time. Exactly. So, I mean, yeah, you get high and smoke and drive all the time, but you don't get high and smoke and drive 100 miles per hour towards a brick wall all the time. No, no. So that could have been something that she misread. Yeah. Whatever the case, her actions, her conscious actions led to the death of these two young men.

And when you look at that video, there's no other way to interpret this vehicle traveling at that rate of speed, but staying perfectly in the line on her side of the road and making those minor inputs to the steering wheel to stay on the road, even at that bend. That to me is what really did her in. It's clear cut that she was conscious and in control of her vehicle. It's very messed up. Like you just, I don't like it. I don't like it.

I got a question for you. It was posed to me online. I'm going to pose it to you and I'm posing it to everybody listening or watching right now. They made the decision to go with a bench trial over a jury trial. Knowing what you know now, do you think that was the right decision? No, because I think there would have been somebody like me on the jury. Like there was somebody on Casey Anthony's jury, you know, who looks at this young girl and is like, I need to make sure 100% beyond a reasonable doubt that you sped. I mean, even it's still. It's still. reckless endangerment one way or the other, right? But murder, you know, like I need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that this girl intended to kill these two people in the car with her. Yeah, and you are right. Manslaughter would have been different than murder. My thing is this. Well, that's the same thing with Casey Anthony, right? Didn't they, they kind of overshot their coverage with what they were trying to charge her with and they didn't really had, they only really had the circumstantial evidence. And that's why the jury had a hard time looking at Casey Anthony, how young she was and

with the evidence that they had and saying, yeah, let's throw this girl in prison for the rest of her life for murder. Yeah. So, yeah, she definitely would have fared better with a jury trial, I think. I go back and forth on it. I think that her lawyers knew how unlikable she was and how unlikable her parents were. And a jury is more likely to go off emotion. And you may have someone who sides with you, but you could also have a jury go, this kid just doesn't get it and find her guilty as well. I mean, we'll never truly know.

The judge is still going to be the one that decides the sentencing, though, right? Decides the sentencing. But I think they were hoping that the judge who's going to more than likely be more pragmatic and objective than a jury, I would think that they thought, hey, if we just can present enough reasonable doubt, we're going to get this whole thing thrown out. That was the hope. There was no way that that was going to get thrown out. The judge was not having it.

She was not having it. And, you know, the judge did say that she could spend the rest of the of her life in prison. I don't think she will. I think you'll get a lenient parole board. Michelle Carter didn't. Well, although I will say parole in Ohio apparently is very difficult, but because of the gray area, the same reason we're covering it, the same reason Netflix did, there's

some, there's some questions there. And I do think that'll be presented in 15 years to say, hey, I did not kill these people intentionally. I'm in here for a crime. I did not commit. I've done 15 years. I've learned my lesson. I'm 30-something years old now.

Well, then she'll have to come forward at some point and be like, yeah, I was trying to say, like, say you do it. Stop pretending you don't remember. I mean, I think that's the safest bet for her. Take some accountability here. I don't remember. She won't do it. She won't do it. She's going to go to her grave saying she doesn't remember.

I did see some things online that says that she may have said she saw orange lights right before hitting the wall. I don't know. She's definitely a liar. There's no doubt about it. Okay, Derek. I think when you look at her, there's something about her eyes to me, sitting across from her at that table in that prison like you just look at her and you could tell she's lying to her teeth that's my opinion okay okay yeah usually i'm the one that's going this hard i mean listen

the netflix did her dirty by leaving in there where she's got like this emotional kind of you know presentation to her and then she looks over at the lawyer like hey anything else i got to say real quick it's almost like an actor dude Netflix does everyone dirty and that's why it's so hard for me to like take it because i know what that is fair i know what they do that is fair but it's fair they They had a narrative that they wanted to put across. You're not wrong. But from people online and people from that community, apparently there was even more. Oh, I believe it.

Even the incident that you referred to earlier in this episode's getting long. But she, there was at the end of the episode, McKenzie's parents were like, oh, we have text messages saying that it was actually Dom putting her in danger. No, Dom opened the door because she was driving and was refusing to stop. Oh, in the earlier July incident. Yes. Yeah, yeah. And then she tried to turn it back on him.

Yeah, the friend said he said he saw. a scuffle inside the car and that McKenzie was like raising her hands at Don. And he heard her say, I'll crash this car. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what he says. That's what he says. That's what he says. And I mean, yeah, he could be, he could be.

He is Dom's mother's friend. So, okay. So that's what he says he heard. And so, yeah, it's just hard for me. Very young girl. I know teenage girls. To me, they're all kind of psychopaths. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Not all of them are driving into walls at 100 miles per hour. Their brains haven't. They're very selfish. And I don't mean just teenage girls. Teenagers in general. Like their brains haven't developed. They're geared towards being selfish.

So I don't like to say that girl's a psychopath. With Michelle Carter, I had no problem saying it because there were so many text messages. And to see her telling him to get back in the car when he said he was scared and wanted to get out. Like honestly, Michelle Carter, who's already out of prison, by the way, she can, she can F right off. But it's hard. Well, I'm glad you kind of took the other side on this one. I think you're going to be in the minority. I know, I know I am and I'm probably going to get destroyed.

And somebody's going to be like, Ms. Stephanie. Well, you're not saying she's not guilty of a crime. I'm just saying it's hard. You're saying that you didn't see intent proven here, which is a valid argument. Yeah. It's a valid argument. I think they just built up a case and painted a picture and showed that there's no other way around it. Unless you're absolutely an insane person who has no self-preservation.

You're like, I'm going to kill us all. That's crazy. 30 seconds, man. It could have been a crime, you know, just a heat of the moment thing. But I also think it's possible she just was scaring them and, and, uh. I hope that's what it was. I mean, for me, just so it's very clear, I think she deliberately hit the wall. I would expect if, hypothetically, I know we keep going back and forth here, if she was

driving at a high rate of speed to scare them and then unfortunately misread how much real estate she had left in the road, what would you expect to see when she realized that? a jolt of the steering wheel right at the last. How about pressing the brake, Stephanie? What's your natural reaction when you're about to hit something? You hit the brake. Her foot was down to the floor on that gas pedal as it hit the wall. There was no attempt to stop.

I mean, it's hard sometimes. I think when you look at like what people do and you could never imagine doing that yourself, it's hard to wrap your hat around it. So, well, I don't know. I'm going to look more into it. Actually, I'm going to look more into it. I've been reading more into it. That's what I was doing today before we sat down.

So I definitely want to look more into it and figure that out. We want to hear your thoughts on this one, guys. It's a polarizing case, hence the reason that Netflix covered it, and it's going to get a lot of attention now. We wanted to cover it because we got CrimeCon coming up in a week or so, and we know it's not, by the time we would be able to cover it, it'd be too long for a crime weekly. So we covered it here.

Let us know your thoughts on it. We'll be back later this week with Part 2 of Carrie Farver. And so we're going to keep diving into it, This is a tangled web. What a tangled web we leave. Yep. Everyone stay safe. We'll see you later this week.

Bye, guys.