Crime Weekly - S1 Ep13: The Murder of Faith Hedgepeth (Part II)

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

Faith Hedgepeth was born on  September 26th 1992 in Warren County North Carolina. She was part of the Haliwa Saponi Native American tribe and her parents Roland and Connie Hegepeth whose parents divorced only a few months after she was born. Her father Roland moved to Hickory North Carolina, a four hour drive away, and Faith remained with her mother and sister Roland who was eighteen years older than Faith and who felt as if she was a second mother to her baby sister. In high school Faith was very active, actively participating in many clubs and organizations as well as cheerleading, and she was also an honor student which earned her the Gates Millenium Scholarship, a program meant to promote academic excellence and provide the opportunity for outstanding minority students with significant financial need to reach their highest potential. Faith was accepted at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and she and her family had high hopes for her future. Faith knew she wanted to help people, especially children, by becoming a pediatrician or a teacher, and once she completed college she would become the first member of her family to hold a college degree. Faith had her whole life in front of her, and with her intelligence, excellent people skills and big heart, she would make a positive impact on the world. But on September 6th 2012, Faith’s bright light was extinguished. She was found beaten to death in the off campus apartment she shared with her friend, Karina Rosario. Faith was naked from the waist down, her shirt had been pulled over her head, and next to her a hastily scrawled note on a fast food bag was found. The note said quote, “I’m not stupid bitch. Jealous”. Since that day, Chapel Hill police have been tirelessly trying to find the person or persons who brutally murdered Faith Hedgepeth, who was just weeks away from her twentieth birthday. To her family Faith  symbolized love and hope, to her friends she was a constant source of positive energy and fun, and the question still lingers today. Who killed Faith Hedgepeth, and why? Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Hello, and welcome to Crime Weekly presented by i-D. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. On this podcast, we do talk about difficult subjects. We're talking about real crimes and real people. And due to the graphic nature of some of this content, listener discretion is advised. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. Thanks for joining us this week. So today, Derek and I were diving into part two of the Faith Hedgepath case.

So last week, we did cover basically the timeline. We covered the crime itself, what happened, what the police found, their initial reaction to it. Where are we today, Derek? We're talking about the suspects in the case, correct? Yeah, I definitely want to start with the phenotype. That's kind of what we, I thought we talked about it, but there's probably more we can even say about it. I did post a picture on our Instagram. People were really interested in talking about it, so it was good to hear their feedback. But yeah, like you said, Faith Hedgepeth, she was found in the morning by her roommate, Karina Rosario, and her friend, Marisol Rangel. We talked about the potential murder weapon in the rum bottle.

We talked about some of the factors behind the force that would be needed to have it do the damage that it did to Facehead. And we also kind of touched upon a couple individuals that could be involved, may be involved, may have been interviewed, may not have been interviewed. But I think today we should spend some more time really diving into that and breaking down some of the theories that are out there because there are a lot of them. And I can also shed some more light on some of the things that have happened since I left North Carolina, some of the calls that I've made and some of the calls I've received about this case without hurting the integrity of the investigation, of course. So I do want to mention that although we're going to be talking about potential suspects,

I'm using air quotes, none of these people have ever been named suspects or people of interest or persons of interest by the Chapel Hill Police Department. Am I correct? That's absolutely correct. And again, these are just theories based on the people that have been personally connected to this case. But that's very well said, Stephanie. But before we get into this week's episode, there is something I wanted to share with you. I actually received a call after our last episode, and it was from Faith's father, Roland. Roland and I stayed in touch after I left North Carolina. We kept in contact here and there, but it's been almost three years. So we haven't talked much as of late, but I was sitting in my office the other night.

I see my caller ID and it's Roland. So I pick up and I had a feeling I knew why he was calling. And I said, Hey, Roland. And he said, Oh, you still got my number on your phone. I said, of course I do. How are you? He's like, Oh, that's good to hear that. You, you still remember me. I'm like, of course I do. What's up. And it was really a nice conversation. We talked for a while and I'm not going to say a lot of what we said, but he, he wanted to tell us that, um, he thought we did a great job at covering faith's case. Um, he thought that we were very factual about what we presented. And he said that that's not always the case.

He hears a lot of different podcasts and documentaries where the facts aren't right. And it's really frustrating for him. But he was really grateful with the way we covered the first half. And he also just wanted to say to our viewers, thank you for listening. And also, if you guys, if you know anything, he'd be greatly appreciative if you contact the police department or even contact us. Because again, he wanted to reiterate, this isn't just a story to him. This is his life.

And it's something that's with him every single day. And he really appreciates all of our listeners taking the time to listen to Faith's story. And he really hopes that just one of you out there knows something and comes forward with new information that can hopefully crack this case wide open. Yeah, this is a man who, even though this happened in 2012, this is still his everyday life, right? And Derek and I are fortunate enough that this isn't our everyday life. We talk about these cases.

They bother us. They emotionally trouble us, and then we get to move on. He does not get to move on. So if anybody out there knows something, and I feel like there are people out there that know something, I think it's time that you ease your own conscience and help solve this case. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. And I'll even say this, you know, there are a lot of cases we'll cover on the show that I may, I, you know, we may not have a personal connection to this one. It is personal to me, you know, and I told Roland that, that, you know, his daughter, I think about her all the time. You know, I have to stop when I, there's nothing more I can contribute, which was the case here, but I still want to keep her, her name in the headlines. I want to keep people talking about her because that's how something's going to break. So, Roland, I know

you're listening. Connie, if you're listening as well, we're thinking of you guys and we're hoping that we're not just covering information that everyone already knows. We're hoping that this kind of gets someone motivated enough or inspires them to come forward if they know something because you two are out there and the rest of your family, you're hoping that someone comes forward that may actually change the course of this case right now. Because unfortunately, as we're going to get into, there's really no news right now. And that's the problem. And that's what we're trying to change. So Roland, Connie, we're thinking about you and our thoughts are with you guys. Speaking of cases that still drive me crazy, the Jodi Arias case has always bugged me.

I covered it. It was one of the first videos I ever covered on YouTube. And there's been a lot of things said about Jodi Arias. But what if there was more to the dark story? And I have no doubt with this woman, there is. So the Jodi Arias case, that crime was shocking when she killed her boyfriend Travis. But the tragedy actually began well before the murder. With access to Jodi's private diary, exclusive interviews, and never-before-seen conversation, Discovery Plus' new documentary, If I Can't Have You, The Jodi Arias Story, explores Jodi's relationship with Travis Alexander and the circumstances that led to his murder.

He was the one who almost got away, but Jodi Arias has never been able to let go. Find out what it takes to turn a lover into a cold-blooded killer. Streaming now exclusively on Discovery+. Okay, so let's talk a little bit more about the phenotype. We sort of touched on it at the end of part one, but I feel like there's still a little bit more to say because it's such a big, not break in the case necessarily. I mean, I don't know. Would you consider it a break in the case? I mean, I think it's important. I will say since our last recording, I did reach out to some people who will remain nameless, but some people on the ground in North Carolina. And I did confirm a couple of things. First off, I'm not going to say the person's name, although I have it. The young man who met up with Faith while, you know, when she was at the Davis

Library, she left for a little bit. Remember we talked about him not knowing who he was? Well, we didn't even know if she'd met up with anybody. We just knew she'd left. Right. She definitely met up with a gentleman. I don't know what their interaction consisted of, but she definitely met up with this man. I have his name and I can confirm that he was interviewed and tested and came back up. Obviously he didn't match. So I know that was one of the things I was concerned about. But, and I believe the source that I heard it from that, yeah, they did speak to this person. They identified him, spoke to him and also tested him against this, this phenotype. So we can at least rule him out

as being the, the owner of this DNA. And you also got some confirmation on the DNA that was found on her body. It was, in fact, semen. We kind of went back and forth on whether it was because it had never really been confirmed. Right. And again, you just said it best. It's never really been confirmed by police. It's been in the specials. And my source is not law enforcement.

So again, they haven't said publicly, although I think it's been leaked. It's probably been in some of the redacted documents. But it does appear that it was in fact semen that was where this phenotype was derived from. But I think it's important. And I want to be very respectful how I frame this. And by all means, Stephanie, help me with this. But we have to talk about it because we're all adults here.

And this is the reality of an investigation. So we can't beat around the bush. So I'm just going to say it, okay? For the most part, I think everyone listening to this, I know our demographics, maybe not everyone, but for most people, we've had sexual experiences in our life. And the reality is that whether you're a male or a female, semen is, you know, probably had some, I'm trying to, again, frame this the right way, some interaction with it. Right. And, and you know, that just like most liquids after a certain period of time, it'll become dry and it'll become flaky. You know, it'd be, it'd be, if changes, it's, it's form, right? I'm trying to be- Composition. It's composition. Yeah. However you want to frame it. This is a touchy subject,

but we got to address it because it's important to this case. And what I would be interested in knowing what we know now about it being semen is when it was found on Faith's body, was it still wet or was it dry? And- I don't think there's any possible way it still could have been wet because once you said we're all adults, well, I hope nobody under the age of 18 is listening to these podcasts. But if you are and you have children around, maybe put the earmuffs on. This is not the part for them. Yeah. So we have had sexual experiences before. We know what semen does. It doesn't stay wet on the body for an extended period of time, right?

Not long at all. Very short. Yeah. So even if she'd been murdered early in the morning, I believe it was the 7th, by the time she's found around like, what, 10, even if it had been just two hours before that she'd been killed, the semen wouldn't have been wet. It's not something that retains its moisture for very long. Agreed. And that retains its moisture for very long. Agreed. And that brings up the biggest question for me. Okay, we know it's semen, but I didn't find anything that, any science that supports the idea that when you find semen, you can determine how long it's been there, right? I've never had that come up in any

investigation I've done. And I did a quick search. I didn't see any signs that would support like the time of death. There's no way to tell when the ejaculate, you know, occurred, right? Like how it got there, when it got there. So my theory is this, or just the question I pose to all of you listening is this. Okay. It's semen. Okay. It's dry. How do we know that hasn't been there even before her murder occurred? Like way before, like I'm talking earlier in the day or even a day before. I don't know. She could have had a sexual encounter where that semen had been there or a remnants of semen had been there for a decent amount of time. I mean, is that possible? That's what's always bugged me about this too. And it really is reminiscent of the Ramsey case that the DNA, that unknown DNA found at the scene,

it either has everything to do with the case or nothing to do with it. And I think that's a similar situation because like we said, over 700 people were tested against this unknown male's DNA. People like at the school, the entire apartment building, all the males in the apartment building, the basketball team, members of sports teams at the college, people she knew, people in her environment, her ex-boyfriend, I assume, who lived at home even, all of these people who were in her orbit were tested and it all came back negative. Yes. And again, I'm not trying to diminish the phenotype. In fact, I still think it's extremely important. And the reason being is because although the main source

of DNA for this phenotype may be from semen found on her body, it is believed that that same DNA from that same individual was also found on at least the pen that was used to write that note that we discussed last episode. So this person, for one, had sexual intercourse with Faith, and two, was involved in the note writing at some point, or at minimum held that pen in their hand at some point. So it's extremely important for the case that we identify this person because, you know, I know that the police department thinks that this individual could be the suspect. But at minimum, this person knows a lot about what happened, you know, that night or at least can explain how the semen got there. it's talking to Karina again or talking to Eric DeCoy Jones or Ty Michael McNeil. They got to identify this person because just imagine this. I'm not putting anything out there that people that are involved with this case don't already know. If they went forward with anyone other than

the person that this DNA belongs to in a trial, right? And they tried to get this person found guilty of murder. The first thing that the defense attorney is going to bring up is there was DNA found on her body and on the pen. Have you identified that person? No, we haven't. Okay. Well, then how do you know that person didn't do it? You need to have that person interviewed and have them explain their involvement before you can do anything. Because if you go after someone other than the person that that DNA belongs to, And they get acquitted in a court of law because of this DNA. Even if you find out who that person is at a later date, you can never try that person again, double jeopardy. So the Chapel Hill Police Department is not going to go forward with anything

until they identify this individual. And that's why it's so critical to the case. And I think we share that opinion. I think we shared the opinion and that's just all it is. It's our opinion. It's not officially said by the police department. But I think that the Chapel Hill Police Department have somebody in mind that they think was involved or at least knows about what happened to Faith. found on Faith's body at the crime scene, they can't prosecute anybody. Because like you said, a defense lawyer is going to eat them alive in court with that just one little bit of unknown evidence. Agreed. And listen, I've already gotten some DMs. Some of them were on the Crime Weekly

messages and some were on my personal Instagram. And a couple of you guys were like, hey, I want to share something with you. I went to UNC, but please don't say my name. Understand, guys, you can reach out to Stephanie or myself. Everything you say with us will remain between us. However, if we turn it over to the police, we have to obviously say your name. But understand that we'll never put out anything publicly unless you tell us to. And we feel it's right for the case. But we want to see these cases solved. And that's really our ultimate goal.

So we're never going to do anything that's going to hinder the investigation. So I appreciate you guys reaching out. Someone reached out and I was able to actually, they had mentioned a name. It was a name that I had found out too well when I was in North Carolina. So we discussed that for a little bit, but I do appreciate it and understand if you have anything, if you see the phenotype and you were around North Carolina at that time, or you went to UNC and it looks like someone that's recognizable to you, it's better to say something and then not say nothing at all. Yeah, it's fine to say something and be wrong. It's not like you're starting a witch hunt online.

You're just giving the information to the police or to us and we'll pass it on to the police and then the police will do their investigation, eliminate the person or not. It's not a bad thing. It's one of those, if you see something, say something kind of things. But we did post the picture, the phenotype picture on the Crime Weekly Instagram page. So if you haven't seen it yet, head over there, make sure you follow and look at that picture, especially if you were in the North Carolina area at that time. Absolutely. And I think what we're going to get into some different people that were involved with this case that could be persons of interest and then also some theories, right? Yeah. So we've covered the basics of the case. Let's dive into theories, potential suspects, once again, just

suspects in the case, not official suspects of the police department. Now, of course, going into this, having spent time with the case and the details, both Derek and I have our own opinion about what might have happened, but it's important that we discuss all of the possibilities because as obvious as one theory might seem over the other, we still don't have all the information that the police have. And we are, as you told me the other day, we're trying to put a puzzle together with only a percentage of the pieces, which can be incredibly frustrating, especially for people like us who really want to have a complete understanding before drawing conclusions. It's very frustrating, but it's

also important that we don't just jump on the train of the most popular theory because everyone in this case is obviously considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That's right. And something real quick that I love that you just said, which is it's frustrating that we're trying to put together a puzzle with only half the pieces, but it's better than making your own pieces. And there's a lot of people out there that do that. And it frustrates the hell out of me because then they start putting these things out there and our listeners or their listeners or their viewers take it as fact because it's coming from them. Don't do that. Don't do that. I'd rather

come in and say, I don't know. If you ask me a question, hey, Derek, you were down there. What about this? I don't know. I'd rather say that than guess. And that's what I think. It's frustrating, but I'm really happy that that's the way we approach it because that's the right way to do it. Don't fill in the blanks based on assumption. Just go with what you know to be fact. But it's okay, you know, to go through what could have happened. Maybe this scenario happened. Maybe this scenario happened. You know, spitballing like that and kind of going over the possibilities, that's fine. And we're going to do our share of that in this episode. So since the police are certain that Faith's killer was someone she knew, We will start with the three main suspects who are

directly connected to Faith and how or if these pieces of evidence might fit in with each specific suspect. So we've got her roommate and friend, Karina Rosario. We also have Karina's ex-boyfriend, Eric Takoi Jones, and Faith's on-again, off-again boyfriend, Ty Michael McNeil. So let's start with Eric Taquoy Jones. Yeah, Eric Taquoy Jones, Karina's ex-boyfriend, and from some friends, he had some mean streaks in him. He had some mean streaks in him, and at minimum, based on Karina's restraining order, he had the tendency to be violent, you know, and that was proven by him

kicking in the door, the actual door to the apartment she was living in at the time of Faith's death. Yes, which is absolutely bananas to me. I can't imagine, I can't even imagine the strength one would need to do that. It's kind of crazy. And he would obviously be one of the first individuals that the police looked into and wanted to question, you know, based on his past history with both Karina and Faith. He'd allegedly been physically abusive to Karina. He had allegedly left visible marks on her. He had that restraining order placed on him by Karina, and Faith was afraid of him because he said that he'd like to kill her or he would kill her if she didn't stop interfering with his relationship.

Now, additionally, the Chapel Hill police had brought the FBI in to help on the case. And the FBI created a profile of what kind of person Faith's killer might be. And this kind of drives me crazy. I feel like every time the FBI comes in, they're creating this like personality profile, like so mind-huntery, you know, it feels like they should be doing something a bit I had a lot of great experiences working with the ATF and working with Haida, which is another more for drug interdiction. But those guys are great. And the thing is, there's, yes, there is, there are cases like, you know, when we did the marathon, Boston Marathon bombing, you have, you know, hundreds of agents down there.

But, you know, they might, when they say the FBI was involved, it may be one agent who, who's at a local office who comes in just to kind of review the evidence. And again, it's, it's so that, cause here's the reality, public perception is like FBI agents. And I say this with a lot of friends being FBI agents that they're just like better investigators than the local police. And the reality is in many situations, that may not be true because FBI agents aren't doing the local homicide usually, right? If it's like, they're not handling that, they're handling a lot of paperwork at the FBI, to be honest with you. And this is part of the reason I never went to the FBI. I took the test to go to the FBI, I passed it, did all the requirements. And then I didn't get on the first list to go because of veterans preference.

And then I decided not to afterwards because I learned a little bit more about it. But agents are top of the notch guys, but the reality is some local cops may actually have more information than them or more experience than them. And that's why they have these FBI task force that combine agents with local police because local police have ears on the streets and the agents usually don't have that. But yeah, they do come in and usually kind of take a quick look and, you know, another eyes, another set of ears to kind of evaluate the case and maybe give some ideas on what they could do moving forward. Yeah. But it feels like they're always just like, oh, this person probably lived in his mother's basement.

As far as the profiling? Yeah. You know, it's always this like behavioral, like the profiling? and your fortune cookie. And it's kind of like, yeah, these are things that it just seems like normal, like violent or like antisocial people would do. So for instance, in this case, among other things, the FBI believed that Faith's attacker most likely knew her. They believed that he lived close by, that his behavior would be noticeably different in the days and weeks following the murder. And he might be very interested in the case and the investigation, almost too interested in it, right? Like he might try to insert himself into it or, you know, be around when he had no reason to be. But do you see how vague that is? It just seems like that's what you would expect somebody who committed a crime to kind of be like, you know,

like, oh, sort of acting different after and be really interested in the crime. It's just typical. There's nothing eye-opening there. And I think it kind of goes with to what you just said. They're coming in, they're giving their perspective on it, they're contributing with what their expertise is, and it may be criminal profiling. But again, they're not magicians, right? So the main reason for the FBI coming in in the first place is because, let's be honest, the local police haven't solved it yet. So they're looking for help. And the FBI doesn't want to come in and just put their hands up and go, hey, sorry, can't help you. So they give him a little bit of something, but I do agree with you. It's not always the key to the case, right? It could just be something that maybe some of the detectives

have already kind of assumed. And to your point with this one, that does appear to be the situation where, again, if you were a cop and you got an FBI profile like this, would you almost say like, oh, well, I won't look too much into this person then because he doesn't fit that profile. Like that's what I worry about that people kind of ruled out or not investigated as thoroughly because they don't fit that profile. That's not the case. No, no. I mean, I guess it could be, there's a human element to it. I guess there's some investigators out there could say, oh, well, FBI said this, they must be right. But most local detectives, their perception of the FBI is very similar to what I just said, which is like, we don't think we're better than them. They don't usually think they're better than us. At least from my experience, it's always been a

very good working relationship. And we understand that people, not agents or local detectives, some people are very good at certain aspects of an investigation. So whenever you can have someone come in who may be able to use their expertise or their specific skillset to help, we welcome it. But I wouldn't ever, if I was the lead investigator in this case, have an FBI agent come in, give me a profile, and only focus on that profile. I might compare it to my list of people of interest that I have already to see if there's any matches, but I'm not going to get tunnel vision either. Well, that is good. Right.

So let's talk about the FBI profile in regards to Eric Takoi Jones. So Eric actually did show up at Faith's apartment building while the police and the forensics teams were still there processing it. And he actually tried to get into the building. Now, keep in mind, Eric did live in the same apartment complex, but a completely different building. So he would have no real reason to enter Faith's apartment building. One, he doesn't live there. Two, he's not friends with Faith. Three, he's not dating Karina any longer and she has a restraining order on him. So he shouldn't even really be there at all. Additionally, like I said, the restraining order was still active. He shouldn't have been anywhere near the building. And when he was told he couldn't go in,

he stayed and hung out around the building anyways. and he began talking to reporters. He was giving actual interviews. So you can actually see this dude on the news, and he says, quote, Faith was the sweetest person in the world. I can't believe anything like that. I'm still in shock, end quote. Which is weird, right? Because as we know, Eric and Faith certainly were not the best of friends. So Eric and Faith aren't close. He doesn't like that she interfered with him and Karina. Faith actually drove Karina to the police station to have, you know, filed the restraining order. But now Eric's trying to get into the building after Faith's murdered.

And he's telling reporters, you know, she's the sweetest person he's ever met. What do you make of that? You know, again, this is just, you know, I think our listeners are going to feel differently about it. But, you know, if you're going off the profile, you could take that as this is someone who wants to try to embed themselves in the investigation or in the narrative that's being put out there. And what better way to make yourself look innocent than to go on a local television outlet and say how much, you know, how shocked

you are by this, aka I wasn't involved because, you know, I'm so shocked. And then also how Faith was the sweetest person in the world, suggesting that you guys were close. It could also be, right? Like he could be completely innocent. He could have nothing to do with her murder, just looking at the other side of the coin. and he's just wants attention and he sees his opportunity. You know, he didn't think faith was the sweetest person in the world, even without talking to him. We know that. Yeah. So, so that's a lie. He lied to the reporters. Could he have just been trying to get on the news? Could he have been like, oh, you know, I want to get in front of a camera, five minutes of fame. I'm going to take advantage of this. That's possible. Absolutely. It's definitely possible. And again, that's why he's on a short list for us tonight.

But also I think probably someone who was a main person of interest when this case initially jumped off. I could tell you for me, when I was down in North Carolina, he was one of the main people I wanted to speak with. We reached out to relatives, family members. Actually, in the episode, you see us go to, we went to a few houses, but you see one specific house that was probably the best address we had for him. And when we got there, it was Chris and I, the names on the mailbox didn't match. So I might even have said this in the last episode, but we didn't push it any further because I was only down there a week and a half. And to be frankly honest, when we roll into town, anybody who really wants to talk to us, they get in touch with us really quick,

because they know we're in town. Everyone knows we're in town. So the people who don't, it's usually because they don't want to be spoken to. So out of curiosity, what year did you go to North Carolina? You would ask me this. I want to say it was 2018. It might've been the end of 2017. I retired in 2017. And then we started doing cases. It was like the second one on a third one I did with Chris. So it was the end of 17, early 2018. So do you have any idea of when Eric Takoi Jones moved out of that apartment complex? I don't, I don't. And to that point with the complex, as you alluded to, it's a huge complex.

They're all like smaller buildings with like five, maybe, I don't know. I don't know how many, five to eight apartments in each one. And we actually drove by the one building he was supposedly staying in at the time of the murder. And it was like, not even like a five minute. It was super close. It was super close. And the apartment building that Faith and Karina lived in, it was all the way at the back, right? So you'd have to drive all the way through the complex. It's at the very back and behind the apartment complex, there's like woods, right? Yeah. Pretty isolated compared to the other buildings. Yeah. And I hate to keep saying it because it sounds like a plug, but trust me, I'm not

making any money off it, guys. I promise you. If you really want a visual, just go look at the episode Breaking Homicide because we do all this and you're trying to picture what we're talking about. Just go watch the episode and you'll see you'll literally see me drive through the lot and everything that Stephanie's saying right now, we pointed out in the episode. So we've got Eric who shows up at the crime scene the day after while they're still processing. But more strange than that were some of the things that he was writing in the time surrounding Faith's murder. So on September 6th, he sent a message to a friend on Twitter. And this message said something like, forgive me for what I'm about to do. And then three days after the murder, he actually changed his Facebook profile picture to this sort of like text picture.

You know, I don't know if like what they call a meme or something, but it was just a text picture. And it said, dear Lord, forgive me for all my sins and the sins I may commit today. Protect me from the girls who don't deserve me and the ones who wish me dead. Yeah. Yeah. That was something that every person I spoke to when I asked them, like, who do you think could be involved? When they mentioned Eric DeCoy Jones, they always followed up that answer with this Facebook post. Everyone thought it was really weird. It could have been just poor timing, but man, what a time to

write something like that, you know? No. Either he had something to do with it or he specifically and purposely did that knowing it would be speculated that he was involved and he just didn't care because he knew that he hadn't done it and he just liked the attention and he kind of liked being at the center of that because it doesn't just take a person who actually committed the crime to want to force themselves into a crime right we see it all the time people confess to crimes they didn't even commit why it's just i don't know personality thing uh the need for the spotlight i don't know what it is but he could very well have been like oh if i do this like people are gonna think that i had something to do with it and they're gonna speculate but they don't have anything on me. So it doesn't matter.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I get what you're saying. And sometimes it's just stupidity. Like there are people out there that are just stupid and, you know, he may not have been thinking at the time and he could have been having a fight with a girl or I have no clue. I'm not going to try to rationalize why someone would do this because it's stupid at minimum. But yeah, there's some of the things that go out there, especially people

who know that their name's being mentioned as a possible person that should be spoken to. I would probably stay off Facebook at that point, but that's just me. Yeah. But you wouldn't want that kind of attention and some people do. Like the whole protect me from the girls who don't deserve me and the ones who wish me dead like what an what an odd prayer It's a very narcissistic sort of sort of prayer, isn't it? Yeah Yeah, and again, they might have asked him about that. I actually would bet money on it They did and he might have said oh I was fighting with my girl So and so over this at the time and oh you has nothing to do with faith or career

You know what? I mean like that could have been his answer. I'm sure it was I mean he would have had to have some answer. Yeah, of course. Okay. So if you look at the FBI profile, it claimed Faith's attacker would most likely be someone she knew. Check. Eric knew her. He might also live close by. Check. Same apartment complex. What? Like a very short walk. He might seem too interested in the investigation. Check. The dude was trying to get into the building of the crime scene and he gave interviews where he talked about how sweet Faith was, but they were not friends. They did not like each other. But Eric was eventually cleared due to the fact that he was

not a match to the unknown male DNA. And this becomes quite a pattern, right? You see these suspects, you're like, oh yes, this could have been him, this could have been her, et cetera, et cetera. But they're always ruled out by this unknown DNA. It's the linchpin that just keeps everything from falling into place. I do believe the police also said Eric cooperated with them. He willingly gave them his phone, which is how they found those messages to begin with. They got a search warrant for his vehicle. I remember you saying something the other day that he had an alibi. He wasn't even home at the time. Yep. That's what I heard. Again, this is from people that were talking to me on the ground, not police. But I will say this, you make a great point about the DNA. And the reality is, yeah, Eric was cleared. Eric was cleared as far as his DNA belonging there, but it doesn't mean,

and I'm not suggesting this, but I'm just saying it doesn't mean that he couldn't have been with someone who hasn't been cleared, right? I'm sure he had friends and family members from other parts of the country or whatever. You have someone come into town for the weekend to visit you. You're talking about Karina. You're talking about faith. You guys decide to stop by because you're close. You know, maybe those are the same people who gave him his alibi. Again, I'm not insinuating this. I'm just saying it's a possibility. So the DNA for me, and as far as Eric is concerned, whenever I was trying to reach out to him, yes, it was about speaking to him and getting a read on his behavior when I mentioned friends or associates, because I think if Eric's involved, well, clearly there's someone else. There's another guy. If this DNA belongs to, let's just assume for this theory that this DNA belongs to someone who had sex with Faith immediately before she was killed. Right? Like, I know we gave a theory that it could be from earlier in the day, but we've already acknowledged that that's fine.

But let's just say for a second, this DNA belongs to someone who was involved. So you mean someone who was involved with her murder left that DNA? Correct. Involved with her murder, or at least at the apartment when it occurred. You know what I mean? A very small apartment. I don't know how you couldn't be involved, but someone who was there. Okay. Eric came back. It doesn't belong to him. That's fine. But who was he with that night? How credible are they? What's their criminal records look like? Could they have been involved? We know from talking to Yuna Chavez, she told me right to my face that Eric did not like Faith, as we alluded to earlier. She made the comment that he could kill her, right? And then you have

the door, the locks, and we're going to talk about this later with Karina, but the locks on Karina's door were changed because of this individual. That is not speculation. That is fact. He kicked the door in and Karina had to change the locks to her apartment door because of this man. So he clearly has some streak of violence in him. His record is not crazy from what I remember. And I apologize for not having it. I could technically get it, but I remember at the time it wasn't anything egregious that stood out to me where it was like, oh, he had cases of domestic violence or sexual assault or even just a physical assault. I think the only thing I saw on there was the possession of marijuana charge. There may be more now,

but I believe that's all it stood out to me at the time. Because if there was more, I would have said it in the show. I can promise you that. So for me with Eric, if Eric's involved, if Eric's the guy, he had someone else with him. And I think that would explain when we're talking about the puzzle pieces, right? That would explain why we haven't identified this unknown DNA yet, because the person that it belongs to wasn't in fact close to Faith, but the person that individual was with was. And this theory would be Eric. And if Eric was with somebody who, let's say, was not from Chapel Hill, was from out of town, and they committed this crime, that person's not going to hang around in town to be there

the next day. They're going to go back to wherever they came from, and they're not even going to be considered when the testing goes down. Exactly. And that's where it gets into the area of like, I would love to be a fly on the wall and ask police. Yeah, I know you spoke to Eric. Who are his alibis?

Did you talk to friends, family members, students, friends of faith to talk about any known? So when I was in college, I'll say this. When I was in college, my buddies from home always came up and visited me for the weekend. A lot of them were in college. I didn't hang around with the best kids growing up and they were living vicariously through me. So they would come up and party with me on the weekends. And then after a while, they kind of got known. They were hooking up with girls on campus, hanging out, partying with us. So some of my friends were known to other students on campus. And I'm sure Eric and other individuals had their friends from home come up and hang out with them. And those are the people I'd be interested in. I know we've examined over 700

individuals to this DNA. I hope that some of those individuals are known associates of Eric's that may have visited the campus at one point or another. That's what I'm really hoping. And I would love to know that for certain. But again, we don't have access to that information. But that would be the question I would ask Eric. Eric, were your friends tested against this DNA? Any friends that have been to this campus ever, were they tested as well? I would love to know that. That would be one of my first questions for him. Yeah. I wonder if the police did talk to him about that. I would hope so. Means motive opportunity. We can apply it to any situation. Did he have the means? Yes.

He was living in the same lot as her. Yes. Motive? Yeah. Listen, it could have been a jealousy thing. Let's say hypothetically, Karina leaves the apartment complex that night to go hang out with Jordan. Eric stumbles over there with his friend expecting to find Karina and maybe the friends was going to, you know, he was going to introduce the friend to faith. He walks in cause the door was left unlocked faith there. And she goes, Hey, what are you doing here? You're not supposed to be here. Probably gives him an attitude because she doesn't like him. And he's like, where's Karina? And he, she says, I'm not telling you anything one, because at that point, I don't think faith would have known she would have been sleeping. Right. And according to Karina, Karina left after she was sleeping. But even if she did, she's not going to tell Eric. So Eric says, where's Karina? Who's she with right now? Faith says a cigarette or something. Saw her leave. With somebody else. So he goes over knowing Faith is alone. It's like four o'clock in the morning, you know, goes over and he demands to know where Karina is. And, you know,

then one thing leads to another. Right. So there's your motive. That's a possible motive. And then you have opportunity. And, you know, there's plenty of opportunity. The door is unlocked. He lives in the lot. As you just said, you know, he could have seen her leaving in a car he could have because he wasn't in direct sight of her apartment it wasn't that close no but she would have to pass him right to go out she would have had to drive all the way back because it looked their their apartment building faith and karina's is it all the way back of the complex there's not a yes to the right right it's to the right i to be fair i'm remembering where his apartment building was. It's possible. He could have been outside smoking a cigarette. Yes, it's possible. I don't want to rule it out definitively, but I will say so. Our listeners are having the view. It's not like a single street where she would have to pass him to leave. That's not true. But it could be as simple as he was driving into the lot.

There's only one way out, one way in. And she was driving out and saw her in the car with some guy and he drove right to the, you know what I mean? He could have drove right to their apartment right after that. That's possible as well. And check this out, right? So the police are going to have the, you know, they're going to do the GPS thing where they see like, okay, well, you said you were at home. So let's check your GPS. Well, his phone is going to look like it was at the complex. They don't, they're not able to narrow it down. They can just see what cell phone tower it pinged off of. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they can triangulate it to get a general vicinity. It wouldn't be like, it's not, you know, exact

location, but yeah. Whether he was at his apartment or Faith's apartment, his phone's pinging off the same tower. Correct. That is correct. Yep. That is correct. And I'll say this, it is very interesting. You wouldn't be able, yeah, it's not far enough away and you're right. If he's in that lot, he could be anywhere in that lot. It's not an exact science. And just to add on to Eric, how does he go in there? How does he do this? How does he leave? You would think that Karina wouldn't have known he would have been there. I'm not saying this is true, but there's a possibility that if Karina wasn't in the apartment, you know, she's not going to say anything out of fear going forward.

You know, she may know something and think something and have an idea who could have entered after her, but you know, she might not have proof or she might be too fearful of it. There's also another scenario and we're going to again, talk about Kar after her, but she might not have proof or she might be too fearful of it. There's also another scenario. And we're going to again, talk about Karina later, but this is in relation to Eric being our main suspect, right? Him being the one who carried out this act. Let's say hypothetically that this occurs at 3.30 when Karina was still there and something happens. I don't even know, but there's Eric. He brings a buddy over. Karina's there.

We know that sometimes even though guys are bad for you or girls are bad for you, it's late night. You end up hanging out, right? Does something go down while Karina's still there? And it takes place in her presence. And now she's like, oh my God, look what just happened. And he looks at her or this person looks at her and says, you say anything, you're going to end up just like her. Yeah. Well, yeah. You'd be terrified. You just saw somebody die in front of you. You're not going to put it past this person to do the same to you. Of course,

you're going to do whatever he says. Right. So they, you know, they leave the apartment. She does what she has to do and she gets out of there to give herself an alibi, something to say that she wasn't involved either, you know? And so that's, there's so many variables to this, right? See, we're only talking about one guy and we've already mentioned like five different scenarios. So imagine the police with 700 suspects or 700 people of interest and growing. Yep. I see your head spinning right now, right? We're on guy number one, we're on person number one right now. I mean, it's spinning in a good way because I love it. You know, I love to go through systematically person by person, check their cell phone, you know, triangulation. Where was your GPS at the time? Okay. You weren't anywhere near there at that time. You're eliminated. Okay. Let's look at, you know, this, like you said,

Meads mode of opportunity, go through each suspect. Do they have these three things? Okay. Next, you know, That would be incredibly stimulating for me. Yeah. Yeah. I think I would probably never sleep or get anything else done, though. That's the problem. We're going to have to do something down the road where we don't cover a case from, like I like to say, 35,000 feet, but you come out and actually do a case with me.

Yeah. Where we do it. I think we should do it. And I think our listeners would like it, but we work at where you work under my license, my PI license, and you come out and you help me on one of these cases and we see how far we can get with it. We have to plan it all out. I probably have to be after COVID because there's no way to properly investigate a case from our recording booths. We got to go out there. We got to be on the ground. We got to be out there talking

to people and actually seeing everything, smelling everything and touching everything with our, you know, with our own sensory cells and not just hearing about it or reading about it. So maybe that's something down the line. I would like to do it with you because I think you would, it would be a lot of, I hate to use the word fun for you, but stimulating is a better word. Yeah. I feel like that's like my next 10 birthday presents. Those presents are wrapped into one. So I'm going to hold you to it. No, 100%. I'm game for it. And before we get off, Eric, because I know you're about to move on to the next one.

I just want to summarize it by saying this. Are we saying Eric carried out this crime? No. But what I'm saying is just because he's been cleared from a DNA perspective, don't rule him out completely because there is a potential that there's someone he's acquaintances with, friends with, whatever it may be, who could be the person that we haven't identified yet because they don't have that direct connection to faith. And maybe that's where the barrier to entry is for Chapel Hill PD. So yes, Eric has been cleared DNA wise, but he's by no means, in my opinion, off the radar. Yeah. A lot of people look at this case and they automatically assume someone killed her. Well,

we know someone killed her. We just don't know how many people were involved with it. There could have been more than one person, two, three, four. We don't know that. And if only one of those people left behind their DNA footprint, so to speak, we have other people who know exactly what happened, who may have been present and who are just going with this code of silence. Very well said. Oh, well, another person that was under the microscope was Faith's college boyfriend, Ty Michael McNeil. Now, you actually had a chance to sit down with Ty and you talked to him for breaking homicide. What was your initial impression of him? Now, you actually had a chance to sit down with Ty and you talked to him for Breaking Homicide.

What was your initial impression of him? I found him to, he was very reserved. You know, I always appreciate when someone agrees to come on a national TV show and put their, you know what, on the table. And kind of, you know, they're willing to, because it's a big risk. And so you always get a little bit of some points from that perspective. But I found him to be cautious, calculated, and methodical in his answers. He would always take a couple seconds to answer. You might not see that in the show because it's cut down. But he was a very smart guy. I know what he does for a living, and I can tell you he's a

very intelligent guy. But I also found him, for the most part, to be believable. I know what he does for a living, and I can tell you he's a very intelligent guy. But I also found him, for the most part, to be believable. I know we did find out some things that he had told us about his relationship with Faith that weren't completely truthful. And that was regarding his obsession with Faith, the level of jealousy he had, and even some signs of violence. Well, first of all, I thought he was adorable. I thought he was really cute. I thought, I think he's a very handsome man. Like you said, smart. He seems to put a lot of thought into his answers. Even if I don't see the seconds that he's giving into his answers, I can tell that he is putting

thought into it. And I don't, I don't judge him for that because I think, you know, that was like her boyfriend technically, right? So, of course, he's one of the main people that everybody thinks might be involved. So, yeah, you want to put thought into your answers. You know, you don't want to catch yourself up. Well, during his talk with you, he was pretty straightforward. And he actually showed you the text exchange that he had with Faith around the time of her death. And there was a lot of questions on whether or not it had been Faith sending the text that evening, right? Most people believe that the thumping sounds that the downstairs neighbors

heard at around 2.40 a.m. was actually the sounds of Faith being attacked and killed. You are one of the people who falls into that camp. You believe that those noises were her being attacked at that time, right? You know, I do lean that way. And the only reason I do, and I said it last episode, I know I did, because you made a great point that it could be just women kicking off their shoes. But I feel like if I had the chance to speak to the neighbor, I would have said that and she would have said, no, no, no.

This was something different. I hear the noises of them kicking off their shoes and jumping around and dancing every day. This was a bang. This was like furniture turning over, which is allegedly exactly what she said. Furniture turning over is different than shoes coming off. So I do feel there's some significance to the 240 timeline. I, however, do question 240 because the only person saying that is this neighbor who is

elderly. And could it have been three o'clock? Could it have been a little bit later where there was a little bit more time in between that I'm not certain about, but I do feel like the bangs are significant. Yes. Yeah. In my opinion, the entire timeline could be off, right? Correct.

By an hour. Because when I'm watching TV at night, I never know what time it is. Usually I'll be like, oh my God, I've been watching TV for hours. Like what time is it? And I'll say, oh, it's way too late. I need to go to sleep. Right. I have no idea what time it is until I look.

Yep. I agree. And additionally, right. I think we mentioned this in the last episode. Maybe there were no noises at all. Maybe noises she heard or somebody else's door closing or any number of things. And then when she found out what had happened to Faith the day after, she attributed what noises she heard, maybe in a

different part of the apartment complex, to what happened to Faith. What do they call it? Confirmation bias, sort of? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Confirmation bias, yep. So those could be either of those things. But if something happened that the neighbor could have heard, it would have happened at the time she heard those noises because for the time her Facebook was accessed, or the time she texted a long and loving message to Ty, who claimed that although Faith had never texted him anything like that before, she'd expressed similar emotions in person, and he believed that it was her sending the message that night. However, Faith's father, Roland, isn't completely sure that this message did come from Faith. He specifically references the first sentence, you're probably sleeping, and you're is spelled Y-O-U-R-E.

In this case, it's spelled without the apostrophe, you know, after the U. Roland said that whenever Faith would text him, which was often, she never left that apostrophe out because proper grammar and punctuation was very important to her, even in text messages. Yuna Chavez, who we've talked about before, this is a very close friend of Faith's, she also has doubts that the message was sent by Faith, but for different reasons. So what Ty had failed to discuss with you during your talk was the fact that his relationship with Faith wasn't as casual as he made it out to be, at least not for him, right? There were several reports from various people who knew Faith of Ty being controlling, possessive, and jealous. It was very common that if Ty reached out to Faith and she didn't respond

right away, he would come looking for her. One girl, and you knew her name last time, it was the girl that used to live with Faith and Karina. Kiara Dixon. So Kiara said that one night Ty texted Faith and apparently she didn't get right back to him. And so Ty actually went to their dorm building and was looking for Faith. And the way Kiara told the story, it didn't even seem like she was even in her own dorm room. It was like she was in someone else's dorm room in the same dorm. And Ty busted in and pulled the blankets off of her while she was in bed. And he was like,

where's faith? Right. So this is a, it's kind of crazy behavior. Yeah. And what was troubling about it for me was, as I said earlier, we spoke to him, you know, we asked him questions like this, you know, how is his relationship with faith and all, and he didn't say anything. Now, could it be that he was hiding it from us? Well, he was hiding it from us. Absolutely. He clearly remembers these times, but there could be a different reason behind it, right? Like one, it could be I'm on national TV. I'm not going to come out here and say that, you know, I was jealous and possessiveive and even allegedly i'd put my hands on her at one point and bruised her arm we haven't gotten there yet we haven't gotten there yet and we'll get there

you can get go over but like there's things that he should have mentioned to us which he didn't and it may be because of just you know perception maybe he said those things to police and not to us and then you know there's also the fact that like, he knows what's happened to Faith. He knows, you know, she was killed by someone who clearly, it was very, it was a violent death. And the last thing he wants to do is implicate himself for something he didn't do. So, you know, you kind of omit those facts because you're like, hey, I'm not an idiot. I know if I start saying these things, I'm basically making myself even more of a potential suspect just by saying it. So, you know, I didn't kill her. I'm just not I'm just going to leave it out. That could be an option. Or it's because he did have some involvement and doesn't want to, you know,

create this, you know, trail of bread is even a little bit more scary. Apparently, Faith used to do her laundry pretty late at night. So it was like 1 a.m. She was doing laundry in the dorms and she'd left her phone in her room. So she didn't answer when Ty called and texted her. So he went to the dorm once again to find her. And he was pounding on the door of the laundry room saying, you know, let me in, let me in. And Faith had also told Yuna, her friend,

that Ty had been physically abusive to her. And just two days before her death, Faith had told Yuna that she was going to try and make it work with her high school sweetheart, Alex. Now, when you talk to Ty, did he give you an indication of where he thought Faith and him had kind of left it off? Like if they were going to make it work, if he thought she was leaning more towards Alex rather than him, what was your impression? He made a point to stress this was he had, according to him, backed off because he knew Alex was still in the picture.

And that's kind of what caused them to separate. However, they were sexually intimate a week prior to her death and that they had made plans to hang out again that night. That was it. It seems like it was more of a hookup a week, you know, a week prior. There wasn't an actual ongoing relationship because according to him, when she didn't call him back or text him back, he met up with another woman. So it wasn't that serious. But when she sends him this message, and I'm going to read it again because, you know, it's been a week since we read it. He sent her the text message earlier in the day. They hooked up a week prior.

They had made plans to hang out that weekend, the next weekend. He texted her earlier in the day and said, hey, are we still hanging out tonight? She doesn't respond until this text message that you're about to read. All right. So she sent this text at 3.52 a.m. And she says, I know you're probably sleeping, but I just wanted to let you know that I love you. Not a day goes by that you don't cross my mind. I know that it will be like this for the rest of my life because of what we've been through

together. Besides that, I still feel the same and love you the same. Sorry for being in my feelings, but hey, without feelings, we wouldn't have life. Sometimes I feel like you are my life. So for two people who are sort of just hooking up, as you kind of explained it, this is pretty, it's pretty deep, right? For a girl who just two days prior had told Yuna Chavez that she was going to make things work with Alex, her home boyfriend, it's kind of deep. And I believe that Ty responded

with, oh, wow, thank you, Faith. I didn't know you felt like that or something along those lines. Yeah, I didn't know you felt that way. Yeah. So when we talked earlier about the message, we had kind of gone back and forth. What did this message mean? Now, outside the timeline, I could believe the message had come from Faith because it doesn't necessarily seem like a message that suggests she's chosen Ty over Alex. It almost seemed almost like a goodbye, like it's not me, it's you kind of thing. I'll always love you, but this isn't working out. She mentions that he crosses her mind every day and it will always be like this because of what they've been through. She could be referring to the fact that he'd been physically abusive to her and she couldn't get over that. Because right after she says, besides that, I still feel the same and still love you the same. Besides that, what we've been through. Kind of like we can't be together, but that doesn't mean I don't love you. I can't get over

what happened between us, but that doesn't mean I don't love you and I don't think about you every day. So, I mean, I understand that, especially when you're young, even if somebody's been physically abusive to you, you think you love them because you're young and it's this big traumatic thing. Like it's very dramatic. I can't be with this person, but I love him still. And I think about him, it's a really cyclical sort of toxic cycle. But in my opinion, Ty might've had a motive. What do you think about the text itself? Do you think it came from Faith? Do you think it meant that she loved him and wanted to be with him if she did send it? Is that what she meant? Or was it sort of like, I can't do this anymore? What do you think about it? Well, I have to stress this

because you just said a little while ago about the quote unquote, I'm doing air quotes here, 240 thumping, right? From the neighbor. And I really want to emphasize this again, because I just said it. I'm saying, I believe that the thumps represent the assault, but I'm not saying that I believe the time in which the neighbor says that she heard it. And that's important because there's a world where, you know, a lot of people that I've heard talk about this case, believe all, well, if those thumbs happened at 240, and I even said this in the show, if those thumbs happened at 240, if we take what the neighbor said at face value and those thumbs represent the assault, well, then clearly faith

didn't write any of those messages afterwards, right? Either to Brandon or Ty, right? It's common sense. However, as I have had time to process it and think about it, you know, after I said it in the show and even that, you know, weeks after the episode, even now, there's a real potential where we're putting all this weight on this neighbor's recollection of when she heard the thumps. And the reality is, what's to say she didn't hear that at 4.40, right? Or 4.30 or somewhere around there or even 3.30, right? What's to say she didn't hear it later in the night after these texts were sent? Because what's the timeframe on that text message again? I believe it was what, 3.52? 3.52. It was almost 4 a.m. It was pretty late. Right. So let's say something happened.

Again, I'm just throwing it out there for everyone to kind of digest, but let's say these text messages were sent. Let's say she sent a text message to Brandon on Karina's behalf. You gave a great explanation of why that would be. Friends saying, hey, hit him up. He's not answering my calls. And then as she's seeing this dissension between Karina and Brandon, where Karina can't even get her ex-boyfriend to pick up, she in that moment appreciates Ty a little bit more, even though they had this toxic, tumultuous relationship. She knows that if she called Ty, he'd pick up right then and there. So she texts him back in her feelings and texts him and says, hey, maybe she's had a couple of drinks. Text him with that lovey, yeah, I've done it. You know what I mean? You said something late night and that could be the case. And then maybe the thumps

happen after that. Maybe the neighbor's time's off. So what I take away from the text is that Ty believes it's from her and you could make the argument that it was used as an alibi. Whoever wrote that text message, if it wasn't Faith, was very close with her and knew the relationship between her and Ty. This wasn't some random person who picked up her phone and decided to text back Ty McNeil. Correct. You know what I mean? This is someone who, if it's not Faith, it's someone extremely close to her. But if you made me choose, I would probably go with, and I have nothing to support this, but I would lean slightly towards it was Faith that wrote the text message. Well, we have to keep in mind that her father doesn't believe it was her,

and neither did Yuna Chavez, and these are two people who are close to her. Simply, but with Roland, and he's going to be listening to this, and he'll agree with me, his simple explanation behind that is the yore. And I can tell you that I have a way of texting, but I've made mistakes many times, you know, especially after a couple drinks So I don't even think it would be hard to convince roland that it was from faith, you know But he's he was trying to help and he was putting out any little detail that he could think of that would be an indicator So I appreciate it But again slightly leaning in the direction of it might have been from faith

So what we got here is and and for the record, I don't believe that the neighbor downstairs was hours off of her estimation of the thumbs, right? So, and I also, I don't see somebody, I think she was in her seventies at this point. Like I don't see a 70 year old woman up watching TV at like four o'clock in the morning. You know, she would have done passed out by then. I would have. Yeah, it'd be an hour and 10 minutes off exactly. Could she have gotten the hour wrong? Could she have gotten the hour wrong? But still, that's late. To me, there's a difference between 2.40 and 3.40. 3.40 is a time where you're almost at morning now. That's the cutoff. But either the timeline is accurate and this woman heard the thumb said 240 and those thumbs signify Faith getting murdered or the timeline's not accurate and she was killed later.

But would she have been killed at almost four o'clock in the morning or after that? Because that would have been after four o'clock in the morning. She wrote that message at 352. What time did Karina leave? 420? 425 or something like that yeah so it's a real small window right do you think that the film it's a real small do you think the thumbs could have been heard after 4 30 i don't know i don't know i don't i don't i think

at most as you said maybe an hour off because again i'm a i don't know if this woman it sucks that i couldn't speak to her but i don't know if this woman was in like a sound sleep because here's the thing she was up watching tv okay so she was watching tv right and she hears these thumps did she were they significant enough where she looked at the clock and said oh my god it's 2 40 in the morning what are they doing possible yes or did she not think much of it continue watching her reruns of the golden girls whatever she was watching and then the next day when she has she's put on the spot by police she's trying to remember and that's her best guesstimate of when when it when it occurred it could have been the former i've been in that position before when i used to live in like apartment buildings and i've heard

noises and i'm like what the hell and i look at the clock and i'm like what's wrong with these people like can i call the police is it late enough where I can call? Because I hate, I'm a terrible person with noise and my neighbors. I'm not good with noisy neighbors. So yeah, I would look at the clock. So that sound could be happening at 240. But in that situation, we have to think Karina didn't leave till almost 430. So she would have still been there when this happened.

Of course. And again, you know, not to be too graphic here, but we know the crime scene. We know that Faith was struck while she was on a bed. And so you wouldn't really hear the thumping while she's on the bed. What you would have heard would be Faith falling off the bed, which is how she was found. That's what that thumping would represent. But why three? Why three what?

She said it was a trio of thumps. Why three thumpings? It could have been her and the offender rolling off. It could have been her andumps. Why three thumpings? It could have been her and the offender rolling off. It could have been her and something. You know what I mean? It could have been- The bottle being dropped? The bottle, you know, exactly.

You know, what were the sounds? But that would be what the thumps would represent because there wasn't like an altercation throughout the apartment. There's no sign that the fight started, you know, in one room. The assault started in one room and then carried over the bedroom. All the cast off is in the bedroom. And it's a very small bedroom. You guys can see the photos. There's not much place for it to happen. And based on how much blood was found on the pillows and the comforter, it's believed that the assault itself happened while Faith was in the bed. Was she horizontal? Was she vertical? That's open for debate. I would suggest she was horizontal.

I don't know if she expected this. I don't know if she expected this. I don't know if this was a moment where she was completely coherent when this happened, or did she get struck and then fall onto the bed and the rest of the assault happened because she was struck on the side of the head. Did we really dive into the autopsy the first time through? No, I felt, I don't know. I felt like it was just so graphic. And, you know, especially now that I know her father heard it, I'm glad we didn't, to be honest.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the father, Roland is very open about it. And he, we were, you know, I don't want to get into everything we discussed out of respect for him, but I don't think he'd have an issue with me saying there were multiple blows to the head. Her nose was broken. She had a strike right in the middle of her forehead and then multiple strikes near the head. Her nose was broken. She had a, uh, a strike right in the middle of her forehead and then, um, multiple strikes near her ear and it actually fractured her skull. And, uh, as described by Roland, it was almost like a cracked egg. And so that's, that's what

we're looking at here. And I say that because I know Roland wouldn't mind me saying it. Um, but that's, we won't go into all the specifics, but that to me on the side of the ear where it was behind the ear would suggest that her head was sideways and maybe she was horizontal. But you said she had one to the front of her head too. So which one was the first one? Because I assume one's going to hit and then she's going to sort of spin and then the attacks are going to continue. You know, you're going to, you're going to. Yeah, like maybe protecting herself. Or just swiveling from the blow. You know, she's a tiny girl. Yeah.

Yeah. And her nose was broken as well. And so that, that, you know, that could have been the first blow. Yes. And that when you hit her to the front of the face, she sort of turns her head from the blow. And then, and then the side blow. It's just vicious. It's completely vicious and unnecessary. It was a lot of rage.

It doesn't take a criminal profile to realize whoever did this, this was a lot of anger, a lot of rage. A lot. And, and, you know, bear with me with the Ty Michael McNeil theory. We may not be able to pin down or prove the means and the opportunity, but as far as the motive goes, I kind of feel like he might have the strongest motive. He definitely has a motive. And I don't want to, I don't feel like he might have the strongest motive. He definitely has a motive and I don't want to jump ahead because I think you still have a section you want to cover with him, but maybe we'll go there first and then I'll say what I want to say as far as what I think Ty's involvement is with this case. Well, so he texted her earlier in the night, right, to see if she wanted to hang out. They had just had sex the previous week. He texts her, you still want to hang out tonight. That means they've already discussed hanging out.

She doesn't respond. Now, if we take into account his previous behavior, this would not have been something that he would be okay with, right? He had in the past texted her. She hadn't responded. He went looking for her. So in this situation, what's different? What's different from the past that he now is just like, oh, okay, she didn't respond and he's fine and he doesn't go out looking for her. Now, apparently, according to you, he had an alibi that night. He was with a different girl and she told the police that he was with her all night. But I still think it could be possible that if he was responsible for what happened, it could have happened. Maybe after

Faith didn't respond to his text, he went looking for Faith before he was even with this other girl, but he couldn't find her because she was at the library. And as the hours went by, he became more and more agitated, more and more paranoid. Maybe he did hook up with another girl that night, but he still couldn't stop thinking about Faith, where she was, what was she doing? And then, you know, this girl that he's with, they have sex, she falls asleep, and he gets this almost Dear John text from Faith, right? And he's like, what the heck is this? What does it mean? Maybe he goes over to her apartment to be like, oh, I'm, you know, I got this message and I'm so glad, like, you love me. And then she's like, no, that's not what it was.

I'm actually going to make things work out with Alex. And he just snaps, right? It's worth noting that Ty's DNA was also compared to the unknown profile found at the scene. He was not a match. He has been cleared by Chapel Hill Police because of the DNA. But it's always nagged at the back of my mind a little since I believe love and jealousy are really strong motives for murder. You know, we see that love, jealousy, money. These are the main reasons that people usually kill other people. Take, for instance, right, the note found on the paper bag near Faith's body. I'm not stupid, bitch. Jealous. The note was analyzed

and it was thought that whoever wrote it was obviously filled with rage. The letters are large, all capitals, almost like this person is yelling. You know, like when someone texts you in all caps, you know they're mad. So whoever wrote this note did so after Faith was dead, right? We know that because there's not a drop of blood on it, which indicates that they were so angry, so full of hatred and aggression that even the murder itself didn't drain that anger away. So the person who analyzed the note also pointed to the sentence, I'm not stupid. And it's thought that this word stupid was almost a pressure point for the attacker, as if they'd been called stupid before. Maybe even they'd been called stupid by Faith herself. This might be someone who had

recently argued with Faith, someone who had a lot of unresolved feelings and issues. And as casual as Ty wanted to appear about the whole situation when he spoke to you, I feel like it still had to have hurt him. You know, if he loved her as much as he claimed he did. And in Breaking Homicide, he pretty much said, like, from the moment I met her, you know, I loved this girl. He met this girl. She's perfect. He wanted to be with her.

But he still knew that whenever she's going home, she's hooking up with her ex-boyfriend. And then after two years of this, two years of hoping in the end that she chooses you, you find out that she's not choosing you. It's never going to be you. That could really make someone angry, right? Additionally, the autopsy report states that although the apartment was cluttered, like normal college girls lived there, there was no sign of a struggle. And that further supports the belief that whoever killed Faith was someone she knew. And when the first blow came, like you said, I don't think she was expecting it. Now, I'm certainly not asserting that Ty had anything to do with Faith's death, but we are here to speculate on, you know, the what ifs and motive is very important. It's a very important component of murder, maybe the most important. And I do think that Ty had motive. If he didn't

have a history of being controlling, of being violent, if there weren't these stories of him getting very jealous and tracking Faith down, if she didn't respond to his text right away, I probably wouldn't feel this way, to be honest. And sometimes even the smallest detail changes your perspective. What if Faith's friends who claimed Ty was controlling were exaggerating or lying? You know, what's their motive to do that? What if Faith choosing Alex instead of Ty had nothing to do with Ty being aggressive and jealous? These things matter. But as the case stands, I've always kind of thought Ty had one of the most viable motives. Yeah. And we could keep going back and forth with them. I'll say this,

as far as my takeaway from Ty, when we were leaving North Carolina, I do not think Ty is involved. That is my honest opinion. I don't think he's involved. And the main things, and there's a lot that went into it, but I'll just give you a couple highlights. If Ty went out to look for her because he was enraged or enraged or jealous, you know, wanted to find her because, you know, everything you just said in order for him to be the person and have it match up with the DNA that was found on the pen and the DNA found on her, there, there more than likely would have had to been someone else with him and his MO from his past experiences that, you know, face friends laid out to him would

suggest that he probably would have done this alone. And so then who's this other person? The second thing would have been GPS. We talked about Eric DeCoy Jones. You have GPS where, again, if he would have done this, it would have been premeditated where he knew what he was going out to do and he would have intentionally left his phone at home where it wouldn't have allowed him to even call Faith again if he wanted to. I also think he would have blew up her phone before going over there after the text. And then finally, for me, what I consider exculpatory evidence would be the woman. He told me on record in the interview, I was with another woman all night. It's specifically what he said. And yes, could he be lying? Of course. But I can promise you Chapel Hill PD was watching our show and he wouldn't say that if they didn't already know it to be true.

Because if he, even though it's just a TV interview, if he lied to them or lied to us and they were able to compare that, he would have got called back in. So I do believe he was with a woman that night and probably with her the whole night. And maybe she gave a compelling statement to say, hey, listen, he never left the apartment. I would have known. I would have heard it. We live, you know, whatever the case may be. But, you know, you can't be in two places at once. And I'm under the impression that police were able to verify he was with another individual who wouldn't have any motive for lying for him. It's probably just a hookup that ruled him out as a possible suspect. So why the behavior change then? Why before is he so jealous, so possessive

to the point where she doesn't respond to his texts, he seeks her out, but this time he doesn't. Again, I was down there for a little bit and I think the stories that were taught, I'm not justifying his actions, by the way, for anybody listening, I think ridiculous what he was doing, but I think that was when they were in the heat of their relationship where he was trying to win her over and take her from Alex. And it was kind of a fight for who was going to be with her. And it was a short period of time where he and Faith were actually dating. I think with any relationship, and who am I to say this, but like a relationship expert, but after a while you get over that person and you move on. Although you guys still may have some

random hookups here and there, it's not as passionate as it once was. And I think that's the stage they were at in this situation. It may have been heating up again because they did have sex the week before, but I don't think it was at the point where he was as invested in the relationship. Hence the reason why she didn't hit him back up. So he's like, oh, onto the next one. And he went through the phone and onto the next girl's number. But don't you think the fact that they had hooked up the week before may have been a sign to him that like it was back on? I just, I've never been so, and I'm not saying I've never been gung ho about somebody where I haven't been obsessive like that. You know, I think we all have, right? But I've never been obsessive like that about

somebody. And then it fades. You know, if I genuinely cared about that person to the point where I'm like, I haven't gotten down to that extent, actually. But here's the thing. I'm not, there's three components. Means, motive, opportunity. I'm with you on the motive. Yep. Agree.

He has motive based on past behavior. You know, best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, right? I'm with you there. Motive based on past behavior. You know, best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, right? I'm with you there. Motive. But as far as means and opportunity based on what he's come out publicly and said, and the police not discrediting what he said, I believe that they have a solid alibi for him with a corroborating witness who confirms he wasn't physically capable of carrying out the act that evening.

First of all, the girl he's with and having sex with, to me, is not a reliable alibi. I'm so sorry. A girl's got to sleep, all right? Especially after a night of sex, you're tired, you're dehydrated, you go to sleep. She could have slept at any time. He could have snuck out. I'm not saying this is what happened, but let's not act like this random girl that he was hooking up with is the most concrete alibi in the whole history of the world. Secondly- I'm not saying it's concrete. I'm not saying it's concrete, but if I was in an apartment with someone and they left for an hour, he wouldn't have left for five minutes and he left for an extended period of time. I personally would have noticed, but I

get what you're saying. Like I would have heard the, because I would have heard the person get out of bed. You just said earlier, like all these college kids are out here drinking and having sex. If this girl had a couple of drinks, she's not going to wake up for nothing, man. How do you know she was drinking? How do you know any of these people were drinking? I don't. What I'm saying is, what I'm saying is I'm not giving her, I'm not saying she's credible or not. I'm saying the police found her credible because they, for him to come out and say what he said to us, it's clearly what he told police. And then again, we talk about GPS. There's too many variables that have to fall into place here for him to basically carry out the perfect murder. And it would have had to have also

been premeditated, which this doesn't sound like whoever killed her this was. So I agree there. I agree there. So It's two things. He either went over there happy about the text and had his little hopes crushed and then grabbed the bottle and killed her. In that case, he would have brought a cell phone because he doesn't think he's going to kill somebody and he would have been tracked on GPS. Or this is premeditated, right? And he goes over there before that text is sent and he's the one that sends the text to himself to give himself the alibi. But then if it's premeditated, you are going to have some other issues. If it's premeditated, he's leaving

his phone at home. But then I feel like he also wouldn't just hope that there was a handy murder weapon there. He probably would have brought something with him, which he could have. He could have brought something with him and then just saw the bottle and said, this is going to be easier because it's already here and it's not going to tie me to anything. This is all possible. And you're assuming that the DNA found on the pen and on her is associated with the murderer. And we've already established that it might very well not be. I can tell you that if his DNA was found on that pen, Ty McNeil would be in a hell of a situation. Yeah, but his DNA wasn't found on the pen. The DNA on the pen matched the DNA that was found on her body. But we're once again assuming that these two

things are integral to the murder and we don't know that they are. This could be from somebody she had at her apartment a couple of days ago, a guy she was with, and then he grabbed a pen, wrote down his number or wrote a goodbye letter or whatever that she since got rid of. We don't know if that DNA is actually tied to this case. And that's why we said it means everything or it means nothing. No, and I'm looking at it in a vacuum. I think outside of everything I just said and nothing to contradict what he said, I have to assume that they considered this exculpatory evidence. Again, I didn't interview the girl. I don't even know who she is, but I'm assuming the police did and they found her story credible

and they probably asked her questions like, could there have been a time where he snuck out? Could there have been? And she might've said no. And this is the reason why. Or she could be at an apartment building that has cameras. I mean, I'm not going this deep because there's so many what ifs, but if he went to a woman's apartment and her complex had security cameras and you see him going in and then never coming back out until the next day, well, then guess

what? That's exculpatory. And that's why I haven't gone down that road so much because it could be something as simple as that that would discredit it. And I know you and I could keep going back and forth. We definitely want to hear what you guys think. But before we continue, let's take a quick break. So we're going to end here this week because we've been recording for about an hour and 15 minutes, so it's going to be a long one. But next week, we're going to talk about the person who's arguably the most relevant and important person in this case, aside from Faith herself, and that's Karina Rosario, Faith's roommate, her best friend. And we have a 911 call to go over that Karina Rosario made on the morning she found Faith Hedgepeth's body. We have a voicemail, a very chilling voicemail that many people have talked

about and tried to figure out what's happening in this voicemail. We do have a lot of things to discuss as far as Karina goes, right? Yeah. And there's even more than that. We have to dive into Marisol Rangel, who is another key witness in this case, because she was the individual who picked up Karina the next morning. We have to talk about the note again and how it relates to Karina if she in fact wrote it. And then you have to talk about motive, because I did speak to numerous people who are character witnesses and spoke to the relationship between Faith and Karina at the time of Faith's death.

Again, motive's huge here. What would be Karina's motive if it was in fact her? And that also relates back to Brandon Edwards. So there is a lot to cover and it's not just Karina specifically. It's all these pieces of evidence that we know to be true and how they would relate to her. And we're going to discuss them in a lot more detail. Yeah. When it comes to means, motive and opportunity, they're there. Yeah, they are there for her, for sure. All right, guys. So thank you for joining us this week. Remember to follow

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