Crime Weekly - S1 Ep20: The Murder of Cynthia Hoffman (Part 2)

Episode Date: April 23, 2021

On June 4th 2019, the body of 19 year old Cynthia Hoffman was found in a creek in Thunderbird Falls park located in Anchorage Alaska. Her feet had been duct taped together, and she had been shot in the back of the head. Cynthia had been reported missing by her father, Timothy Hoffman the day before, and he had told the Anchorage Police Department that his daughter had gone out with her best friend on June 2nd and not returned. He also told him that Cynthia had a learning disability and her brain only functioned at the level of a 12 year old. When you think of the kind of person who would do this to a young and trusting girl like Cynthia, you think of someone evil, a stranger most likely, since no one who knew Cynthia could have ever done this to her, but this wasn’t a stranger who had done this, it was a person that Cynthia considered to be her best friend. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_NhRiyowalHnbKjveNQxxA Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Hello everybody, welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. Today we are going into part two of the murder of Cynthia Hoffman. But before we dive in, I just want to chat with you for a second, Derek, and catch up. It's been a week since we've recorded, and we talk every day. But what's been going on for you? What have you noticed out there? Well, I'm a big Twitter person.

I don't tweet a ton, but I obviously am following the news, and I'm watching it, and I'm hearing about the FedEx shooting today where I believe it's up to eight people have been killed. I don't know if there's any more. I think there's some others that are injured. Um, and apparently the suspect after killing these eight individuals, he also killed himself and initial reports and take this with a grain of salt. Cause the media is always trying to be first, right? The initial report is that, um, he was a former employee and he went back, you know, it was a retaliation thing, kills these individuals and then kills himself.

So it's unfortunate. And as, as someone, as a father, you know, as someone who is out there every day with my family, it's a FedEx store, you know, today, um, we had the, was it the Walmart incident not too long ago where, you know, you just never know. And it's scary because it can happen anywhere in the country at any moment. But did you see this kid though, the suspect? I think his name, he's 19 years old. He looks like a little boy in his picture.

Brandon Hole, 19-year-old Brandon Hole was last employed by FedEx in 2020. Yeah, I haven't seen a picture of him, but, you know, it's an interesting situation because the reason why I like what we do is, yes, we're covering cases. But I also feel from, you know, what people tell us in the comments and the emails we get that, you know, people sometimes look to us for advice, too, because we're covering these cases. But our goal is to give these victims the voice they deserve, you know, to make sure everyone knows who they were. And they're not just a victim, but also what we can take away from it. Right. So that we can be more prepared for situations in our own lives. So when these hot topic issues like mass shootings and gun reform and all these different things come up, I do feel like an obligation to talk about it. And I do have my opinions on it it and this might be a little bit of

a controversial take but it's the only it's the answer that i'm taking the advice that i'm taking for myself so i can only pass along what i'm doing and and you decide whether it's right for you or not and for me um i'm in a state where i'm allowed to uh carry concealed so i had to go and get a license um i have i have a ton of firearms, but it's mainly because I enjoy, I don't hunt, but I enjoy the building of them. I enjoy collecting them. I think there are in a way for me, you don't have to agree with me there, but for, from a safety perspective, when I go out with my family and we're not doing a lot of going on out right now because of COVID, but even before I've always carried a firearm me in a movie theater or

something like that, because you just never know. And I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but I know there's some gun reform stuff coming in. I assume it'll get, it'll go through. But at the end of the day, from my experience, the guns that are on the streets are on the streets. And just take this, this one example, and I'm not generalizing because every case is different. But in this one situation, this kid, right, he's going into the was on for Newtown the Newtown shooting this individual is not going to care about your loss this individual is not going to care about gun reform if they already have the gun in their grandfather than there's over 500,000 guns in our country already which you may think that's a problem you may be right but that's a that's the reality those individuals already have the guns so regardless of

what happens from this point forward, if they banned all guns in this country, they're already out there. So when you're out at a movie theater or you're at a shopping center and you're with your family, there's no law, there's no gun reform change. There's no police officer, unless they're right there, that's going to save you or your family. It's only going to be you. And for me, it's not a guarantee, but I'd rather be in a position where I can at least try. And you know that saying, you don't take a knife to a gunfight. So if someone has a gun, I want to have one too.

So I at least have the opportunity to protect myself. So, you know, depending on what you believe in, that would be my advice to you or anybody that I care about, because that's what I'm doing. But you got to decide what's right for you and your family. Yeah, I'm not super worried about the people out there who have guns that they acquired legally. And I think that's where the debate kind of loses traction is there's so many guns out there that aren't obtained illegally. And typically, and I know not in every scenario, obviously, and I'm not making a generalization here, but typically when these crimes are committed, they're not committed with guns that are obtained legally. And if I was in a position like that and somebody was going to kill themselves

and they're thinking in their heads, well, I want to take out everybody I can in the process, I would want somebody like you there with a gun, to be completely honest, people who are responsible. And I think the majority or at least a good percentage of people, gun owners in this country are responsible gun owners. And if you're raised in a family that has guns, you're taught from a very young age to be a responsible gun owner and a responsible gun user. But that's the difference. It does need to be something that's taught and trained just like anything else. You know, a car can be incredibly dangerous.

Anything, a knife can be incredibly dangerous. That's why you teach kids from a young age, like, be careful with this knife. You know, if you're cutting carrots, don't cut yourself. When you're in a car, you have to wear a belt don't drunk don't drink and drive things like that you know we have to train people from a very young age but I personally am a gun owner for my protection not because I'm trying to hurt anybody not because I like hunting because I would never kill an animal nothing could ever make me take an animal's life or another human being's life. I don't want to take anyone's life, but I do want to protect myself. And I think you and I are both in the same position where we do have an immersion in these true crime cases that we cover

and we know how dangerous the world can be and we know how scary it is out there. And we know that the bad guys are usually armed better than we are. So I do encourage people to be responsible gun owners. Just recently in my area where I live, Rochester, New York, last week or a couple weeks ago, there was an enormous amount of carjackings. And in a few of them, the person got shot. And it sort of bothers me because the police tell you, like, if you're in this situation and somebody comes up to you and says, oh, you know, give me your car or give me your purse or give me your jewelry, you're supposed to just say, okay, and hand it all over. But I think if these criminals were aware that there's a responsibly armed population out there,

there would be less of them who would just go up to you and try to take your car or try to mug you and and i think that's where we have a we have a very big disconnect that guns are considered really really bad but if you if you put gun regulations on on this country it's going to take the guns out of the hands of responsible people but they're going to keep them in the hands of the people who aren't getting them through responsible and legal means so you're going to be you know not not protected and the person who might want to take something from you like your car or your life they will be armed so I know there's countries who have very strict gun laws and over time they've managed to

get the guns off the streets. Therefore, you know, you're not worried about maybe the criminals having them. But in some countries, this really hasn't been as successful because I hear a lot of people who live in those countries say, well, we're not allowed to have guns, but the criminals still do. So it's definitely a slippery slope and it's a very, very tough conversation. But I do encourage you that if you own a gun or you want to own a gun, just be very responsible with it.

There is a responsible way to handle this, but I don't think that there's anything wrong with being armed and being able to protect yourself and your family. And if you're in a public place, those around you. Yeah, it's, again, we know we're touching, we're just literally scratching the surface of a deeper issue.

And I'm sure there's people listening and they have a million comments they're making right now. And I'm sure we'll hear them. And it's a bigger conversation for a bigger day. But I'll just, we can just end it on. Our thoughts are with the families, for everyone involved with the FedEx, you know, shooting and every other shooting. Because, you know, it's not going to bring them back regardless of what happens. And we're thinking of them.

And, you know, I don't know what the answer is. I don't think anybody does. And the reality is there might not be a perfect answer. So we just got to keep rolling with it. And hopefully something changes where we do start to see some progress. I think that's absolutely the reality that there is no perfect answer, unfortunately, as scary, but that's the reality with a lot of things, right? Yes. We have to do our best yep absolutely but again thoughts are with everyone and uh just stay safe out there be vigilant be aware of your surroundings and if you if you feel that you can get the training and you feel like you can be safe enough that would be my advice but anyone who who doesn't agree with that i completely respect it

it's your choice absolutely yes i mean i will be i will be armed in my house. I don't I don't take the gun out because I don't thank God for that. Yeah. No, no. I don't have a concealed carry permit. I live in New York. So it's very tough to get one. But I promise you that I am a person. And I think there's a lot of them out there like me who if I did have a concealed carry permit, if I did bring my gun out into, you know, real world the public nobody would be in danger from that um no but nobody nobody would mess with me okay I won't mess with you now um but yeah I just wanted to bring it up because it's something where we're recording these episodes and we're talking about cases that have been adjudicated in some cases or or cases are older. And these are issues that are going on around us.

And we're not oblivious to them. We know there's a lot of things we could talk about. Police-involved shootings. There's a lot. That's not really what this is. Maybe in the future we have something else, like another forum on this platform or a different platform where we discuss things like that more often. But again, it was just something that I was thinking about and I wanted to touch upon it.

But I know we're here for CeCe today. We are here for CeCe. And when we left off in part one, I sort of alluded to the fact that there was text messages that were exchanged between Denali Bremer and Darren Schillmiller. And these are the two, I would say, you know, there's roughly five people who are involved in what happened to Cece. But these two, I would say, are the main actors. They're the main people. And I have text messages from, I believe it's like a warrant or an affidavit of some kind. Yeah. And before you get into it, just for anybody, again, this is part two of Cynthia Hoffman. So if you haven't watched part one yet or listened to part one, you should go

do that. But if you haven't and you're just picking up from here, we're talking about 19 year old Cynthia Hoffman. She was killed on June 2nd, 2019. And the two main individuals, there was three main individuals, in my opinion, but the two main individuals there was three main individuals in my opinion but the two main individuals that were there when this occurred were denali bremer and caden mcintosh but also the person that you're talking about who who wasn't there darren schillmiller so um they brutally murdered this girl and and on top of doing that um denali was sending snapchat videos to uh darren because he was in another state. But he was he was basically directing them as to what to do with her before and after before, during and after the murder. So it's a really horrific case because he was pretending to be a millionaire from Kansas.

I believe. Right. He was pretending to be Tyler from Kansas, a millionaire. And he was going to pay Denali. I believe it was $9 million to rape and murder somebody. She and her merry band of psychopaths chose Cynthia Hoffman. They are the ones who chose her. They are the ones who, you know, actually carried this out. But he was the one who basically, I guess, swung the carrot in front of them. Yeah. And as you were just alluding to the text messages. So the good news is these knuckleheads were caught, all of them, including Darren, who was in another state. And they're now they're in

prison right now. They're awaiting trial. And what Stephanie was just speaking about was they're currently in the discovery process. And the discovery process is basically the exchanging of evidence. So the prosecution has evidence that they have to hand over to the defense team. And in this case, I learned that it's actually public defenders. But they have to hand it over to them to give them an opportunity to prepare a defense. And so that's the stage we're in right now. But Stephanie had some access to some documents where they actually have a transcription of some of the text messages that were exchanged between Darren and Denali. And I haven't heard them yet. So I'm going to be hearing them for

the first time with you guys. Not really looking forward to it, but Stephanie wanted to get my genuine reaction to them. And so I've refrained from from reading them but either way I'm not looking forward to it yeah and you know I really want everybody and I said this at the end of part one but I want everybody to to understand that at this time it seemed like Denali Bremer was being painted almost as a another victim um they were reporting it in the news that she had been catfished uh air quotes for those of you who are not watching on YouTube that she had been catfished, air quotes for those of you who are not watching on YouTube, that she had been catfished. And so she had been almost tricked into doing this. And I just find that completely abhorrent.

Like, I can't, I can't understand why any newspaper would write that. It doesn't matter if you thought you were talking to somebody else. So it doesn't matter if you knew the person's real name. He asked you to commit murder. You murdered your friend or a person who considered you her best friend. And it doesn't matter if you knew his real name or the real state he lived in or his real motives. It doesn't really matter to me.

So she wasn't catfished. But I want you to. And it's misleading, right? It's very misleading. catfished but i want you to and it's misleading right it's very misleading because you look at it and it does like you said it looks like she was a victim in any way shape or form this is what i'll say you can compartmentalize it she was a victim of being catfished in the sense she thought she was talking to someone different nobody tricked her into killing her supposed best friend thank you she was there she was there with caden and made the decision to kill cc for the gratification of this person she thought she

was speaking to but nobody forced her hand nobody made her bring the gun nobody coerced her into or basically threatened her into doing it that was physically present and could actually carry out any type of threat to her she made she made the decision herself yeah she was bamboozled by this guy into thinking he was somebody different and he had money but that's just because there was an incentive for her money monetarily and as you said as far as as you said in part one she didn't even get a down payment so no there's got to be a part of her that's wondering, like, is this dude for real? Like, how many millionaires are out there trolling the Internet trying to get somebody to kill somebody else? Like, there had to have been a pretty big part of her that said, hmm, this probably is not real.

But it didn't matter, and she went through it anyways. And what I want you to do when you're listening to the text messages that I'm reading, ask yourself how much of a victim does Denali sound like? How does she sound? Does she sound like she's enjoying it? Does she sound like she's into it? Does she sound like she's just completely in fear for her life? Does she sound like she's being blackmailed? Does she sound upset? What does she sound like? And then let us know in the comments on YouTube or let us know on our website or let us know, you know, on social media. What do you think she sounded like? And we're obviously going to tell you what we think she sounded like.

So what I have here is it's an affidavit in support of criminal complaint. And this is actually an FBI agent, a special agent with the FBI. And she says that she's investigated on a number of violations of United States code she's assigned to the violent crime squad in the FBI Anchorage field office and she's specifically assigned to work violent crimes against children including but not limited to internet crimes against children online enticement of children child pornography possession and distribution and commercial sexual exploitation of children and I pornography possession and distribution, and commercial sexual exploitation of children. And I would say that this case definitely falls into her purview. So I'm going

to the text message conversation. I just want to give a heads up if you guys have children in the car, if you have children around you, if there's young ears around, either pause this and listen at a different time or put some headphones on because this is not appropriate for them. I also want to remind you that in this text message conversation, there's going to be mention of minor victim one and minor victim two. Minor victim one was eight or nine years old. Minor victim two was 15 years old. Now, that means that what Denali did on Darren Schillmiller's instruction was sexually assault two underage girls who were you know eight or nine years old and 15 years old and there's a lot of discussion about specifically minor victim two, who is the 15-year-old in this specific text exchange.

So Denali says to Darren, quote, so I do stuff to minor victim two, then we rape her later tonight too, question mark, end quote. And Darren responds, yeah. And then he goes on to say, quote, so are you going to the 14-year-old? Denali responds, he, he, he, yeah, I'm going to her right now. Okay, found a place to do it. Gonna go buy weed first. I want to get her high for it so she doesn't fight me. I love you. And then Tyler responds, or Darren, he responds, I love you too. Have lots of coming to do. I I mean with her I want to come till I bleed to her and you and then he he goes on to say quote when we start just send pics understand and Denali Brummer goes on to respond to him quote yes I love you and soon we can rape minor victim two together. She's gonna be asleep for it. Her choice. Is that okay? And Darren

Schillmiller responds, okay, she's passed the fuck out. And Denali Bremer responds, quote, I can fuck her when she's asleep. Tyler responds, you do what I say. And Tyler is Darren Schillmiller, but in this affidavit, he's referred to as Tyler because that is how apparently Denali referred to him. Denali responds, yes. So Tyler says, you do what I say? Denali responds, yes. Tyler then says, quote, show me her belly and pants laying flat lay, her flat on video. Hurry.

She's only 14. Denali responds, yeah, she's 14. Tyler says, force her, tie her up if you have to Denali responds okay Tyler aka Darren Schillmiller responds quote do the video Denali responds okay it says in here the next text is a video sent from Denali Bremer to Tyler Darren Schillmiller in which Bremer puts her hand down Minor Victim 2's jeans. It's not clear from the video if the hand reached under Minor Victim 2's underwear. Tyler says, quote, Fight her. Impress me. Spam me 20 pictures. Surprise me. Pics of her in underwear. We need to fuck her butthole later. Find some toys. Ha ha. End quote. At this point in the conversation,

it appears as if minor victim two takes Denali's phone and begins texting with Tyler, aka Darren Schillmiller. A picture of Denali Bremer shows her to be asleep on the bed while minor victim two texts with Tyler, aka Darren Schillmiller. The conversation continued between Tyler and Minor Victim 2. Tyler says, quote, So Angel is Denali Bremer. It seems to be her nickname. It's what Darren Schillmiller referred to her as.

It's what Caden McIntosh referred to her as. And Tyler's saying that he's going to have Angel actually rape this 15-year-old girl full force today. And he wants to see a dick in her. And this minor victim, number two, the 15-year-old girl, she responds, okay. okay and Tyler says but who can dick you and this minor victim too she responds maybe you can and Tyler says tell you want I think he means tell you what I don't know if I told Angel but I also have 50 million I'm willing to give you 15 mil and minor victim responds I have to leave before two and Tyler responds guess what you can't leave I told you angel to tie you up if I have to you're gonna play the fuck out of her pussy understand and ass and minor victim responds yes I understand so Tyler says make it wet do a

nice video send a lot of videos and the next text is a video of minor two removing bremer's underwear and digitally penetrating bremer and that means with her fingers for those of you who do not know at this point it appears as if bremer takes control of the text messages again and tyler says to her quote take her socks off i need child porn fully rape her i will make sure you see me today make it look like role play you know what what I mean. Like a porn movie. Remove panties on video and soared her legs. I think he means spread her legs. Bremer sends Tyler two videos. In the first video, Bremer removes minor victim 2's underwear and minor victim 2's vagina is visible. In the second video sent immediately after the first, minor victim 2's legs are spread and her vagina is again visible and then Tyler says quote I wish I never made a deal with you

in the first place we can meet but once I see a cop I'm telling him or her that I made you rape people and killed Cece I don't even deserve you I still want kids but I can't because I have a child porn fetish I'm trying to get over I have a rape fetish I want to get over so I can never get help or be in a holly relationship. End quote. I believe he means healthy relationship. So, okay. That's a lot to unpack. Yeah. And I think I want a second to process it. I have some initial thoughts. Take a second to collect myself because that's tough to hear. Let's take a quick break and we'll get right into it. Thrive Market is your new one-stop shop. It's an online membership-based market on a mission to make healthy living easy and affordable for everyone. Shopping with Thrive Market is

healthy without the hassle. You can easily shop by 70 plus diets and values like keto, paleo, gluten-free, vegan, non-GMO, fair trade certified, BPA free, and more. Skip the store and the lines. I have been loving Thrive Market. I found that they had the best selection of high quality, healthy, and sustainable products online. You can buy really everything. It's not just food. You can buy wholesome food, home and beauty products that are curated just for members. It's got organic and essential groceries, clean beauty, safe supplements, and non-toxic home, plus ethical meat, sustainable seafood, clean wine, and more. And their products are all ethically sourced, which is really important. So anytime you're shopping on Thrive Market, you know that whatever you're buying is going to be good for you. Thrive Market is also good for the planet. Orders of $49 or more are shipped for free and

delivered with carbon neutral shipping from their zero waste warehouses. Yeah, I'm enjoying Thrive and not only is the food good, but also there's some money savings there. So on my first order, I saved approximately $60, $70. So the actual subscription for Thrive Market is only $59. So you're already paying for the membership itself. And as far as the average savings is, Thrive Market members save an average of $32 on every order. So there is some money saving there. And last but not least, when you join, you give back. Through Thrive Gives, there's a one-for-one membership matching program. So for every membership that's paid for, Thrive sponsors a free one for a low-income family. So if you want to join Thrive Market today to get 25% off your first order and an exclusive free gift,

the only way to get it is by this offer and going through thrivemarket.com slash crimeweekly. That's T-H-R-I-V-E market.com slash crimeweekly to get the exclusive offer. I just want to say that when I got my free gift, it was actually a really good, it's a really good beauty product, a cure. And it's this like rejuvenating facial thing that I got. It is so good. And, you know, I like that they're just going to throw in a free gift right off the bat. They also have an option to get the Nutiva Organic Liquid Coconut Oil, which is my favorite coconut oil. So we definitely suggest giving Thrive Market a try.

Healthy eating and living a healthy lifestyle can be incredibly expensive. Thrive's making it less so. She said it best, right? So again, thrivemarket.com slash crimeweekly. Check it out. All right. So we're back and Stephanie just got done reading some really horrific text messages. And I have a few takeaways and by no means am I a psychologist, but to start off with some of the questions that you posed before you read them, as far as you wanting us to kind of think about, do I feel like Denali was doing this against her will? No, I don't. I feel like she was enjoying the whole situation.

I definitely think she was falling for this person that she thought she was speaking to. And you can maybe make an argument that she was doing it because she wanted to please him but the reality is she was the one doing it and based on those text messages it seemed like she was really enjoying it there was like it seemed like it was something that was gratifying her as well sexually she may have been just saying that to gratify him but regardless the way you read it right there that's not what it sounds like and as far as as far as darren's concerned might as well say he's a scumbag i don't have any other way to say it he really is like the worst of the worst and he's not only for what he gets off on but just the way he talks and the way he's

manipulating these young girls including denali you know what i mean including den but just the way he talks and the way he's manipulating these young girls including denali you know what i mean including denali um the way he phrases things you know it's it's like a lot of these serial killers and people you hear about where they're able to coerce younger minds people who are underdeveloped minds and the way he's the way he phrases things and then how graphic he is with these young girls especially the the 15 year old, 14 year old or 15. Right. That's that's what I heard. Yeah, so let's just say 14 or 15 doesn't make a difference. He's on the phone the way he's talking to her i mean we talked about this a little bit last week

you know there's no there's no there's no coming back from this from this guy he's he's going to be a waste of space in prison there's only one outcome i think should come from this i don't know if that will be the case but um i think that his life should be ended it's that simple he's he's there's no rehabilitating that man i know that he says at the end of the text message, you know, oh, I don't I'm never going to be in a healthy relationship. He wants to try to play the victim. But the reality is he all his text messages prior to that completely contradicted. And the only reason he was doing that is because he didn't feel like he was getting what he wanted. That's all. He was pouting. He was he was he was pulling. He had a tantrum. and that's when he was blackmailing her saying he was going to tell the police he's all over the

place he's a he's a psychopath and there's no reason anyone like that should be on this earth well i'm sorry this is the way i feel like you said you said you think you know you from the text and i agree with you it seems like denali has fallen for this person um what does that say about denali that she would fall for somebody like this that this would be something that was not only attractive to you but that you would say to this man in this short amount of time in this text exchange that she loved him twice um yes yeah and uh he knew that he knew what he was he knew what he had he knew what he had in her and he was playing it up. But did she know what she had in him, which was nothing? OK, you haven't you haven't met this person. You don't know who he is.

You don't. All you do know about him is that, as he said in his own words, he has a child porn fetish and a rape fetish. And this is what you know of this person and this is who you say oh I love this person so to me yes he's a scumbag no question I mean that's not up for debate but there is you know some um there's some debate out there as to whether or not Denali was a victim or a perpetrator and I think that without a, she's a perpetrator. She knew what he wanted. She knew he made her kill somebody or he told her to kill somebody. He was going to pay her money to kill somebody. And now he wants her to sexually assault children. And she seems to be going along with it just fine. He, he, he, yeah, I'm going to find weeds so I can get her high so she

doesn't fight me. And then, you know, we're going to rape her and she's going to be asleep for it, her choice. And that brings me right into the, the minor victim two scenario. And there may be people out there who say, well, this minor victim to this 14 or 15 year old child seems to be down for it no no no this child is not down for it this child has been manipulated by this asshole Denali Bremer and this other asshole Tyler aka Darren Schillmiller aka the creepiest pervert on the face of the earth and he's offering her money. Now we're talking about a 14 or 15 year old child that may be not financially well off. They may be in a bad money situation at home. They may be living-

She might be under the influence at that point as well. They also may be living in poverty. And when you offer somebody who isn't, and this is, if you think about Jeffrey Epstein, you think about Jeffrey Epstein and how he preyed on his victims. He went from his fancy mansion in Palm Beach to, I think it was West Palm Beach, where there's definitely an economic disparity. And he recruited his victims from there because he knew they were in a bad economic situation and that if he offered

them money they would do what he wanted that's manipulation that's awful not only that but this is a child she says at some point I have to be home by two because she's a child because her parents said she's got to be home by two and he's like oh no you're not going to be home by two I told Denali to tie you up if she had to. So this child has been roped into this by Denali and by Darren. But she's also got, you know, her boundaries where she's like, I got to be home by two or my parents are going to be upset. And he's like, no, you know what, I'm going to give you $15 million. And she's like, okay, you know, she's not down for this. And like you said, Denali says she's going to buy her weed so that she's, you know, her inhibitions are down so she doesn't fight her.

And that looks like it's exactly what happened. And again, what we're talking about here is a 14 or 15 year old having a conversation with a 21 year old. Yeah, he's not like an old man, but the brain development at that point is significant between 14 and 21. So this guy knows what he's doing, knows what he's saying, and he's taking advantage of the situation because he knows he has a young teenager who really just wants to be liked, right? Just wants to be part of the crew, the older crew. Wants money.

Wants money, for sure, and she's got this, she might be looking up to Denali as this cool teenage girl who she wants to be like, and then she has this older man on the phone, and she wants to Denali as like this cool, you know, teenage girl who she wants to be like. And then she has this older man on the phone and, you know, and she wants to have him to like her too. She wants to be part of the crowd. And yeah, they're 100% manipulating her. And the saddest part about all of it is as much as we hate the guy, Darren knows exactly what he's doing. He's got this tool, this instrument in basically their um denali who's who's basically carrying out

his thoughts right he can't physically do it but he's manipulated this girl to the point where she will do whatever he pleases just i don't like that manipulate i don't think he's manipulated it's a tough he's manipulative but i i hear you because i even when i said it it's like it's tough but at the end of the day she's carrying out the actions and it does feel like she likes it. But you do think it's fair to say at this point, based on her saying she loves him and him not saying it back like he knows that she's partially maybe if it's small doing this because she thinks she's in love with the guy.

Right. Is that fair to say? I don't care. I don't care. I don't care either. I don't care if she thinks she's in love with him. I don't care if he thinks that she's in love with him. right is that fair to say i don't care i don't care i don't care either i don't care if she thinks she's in love with him i don't care if he thinks that she's in love with him why would she be why would she be in love with him and and besides that the worst part for me

is this darren offers this child 15 million dollars and denali's over here just killed somebody for him she hasn't seen a cent she knows darren don't have no money and darren's not going to give this child 15 million dollars and she allows this to go on anyways so no i don't feel no i don't think she was manipulated i think she saw darkness and evil in another human being and the darkness and an evil that matched the darkness and evil inside of her and she said this is my man this is my man that's what i think but you don't have to you know i'm sure you agree but i mean out there if you guys think she's a victim you can think she's a victim but i do i don't i don't think she's a victim this is what i'll say and then we can because we can debate it all day what i will say just trying to be objective about it from my perspective and again we don't agree on everything that's why people like this right

they like seen us not agree on it but if i'm looking at this from an outside perspective i'm looking at darren he sees this what appears to be uh someone who doesn't have a lot of money someone who clearly has you know likes him we don't know what other conversations they've had leading up to this what he's told her what he's promised her other than money like hey we're gonna be together at some point you know i love you. And I think he probably was playing up the relationship card with her in order to get her to do certain things for him. And technically, technically that is manipulation. If you're using something to convince someone to do something, you're manipulating them. That's the definition of it. Yes. I agree with your definition. I don't

agree that that's what happened here. In the last text, this dude literally says, I can't ever be in a healthy relationship. And I'm sure this wasn't the first time he said this to her. But that was after she had already killed Cece. Yeah, but I'm sure he said that to her before. It's not like this is the first time he's confessed he has a problem and he can't be in a healthy relationship. And he's just got this horrible illness and this sickness where he just wants to rape children and and he just can't help himself she knew that shit he's been telling her what did she think they were going to get married have a couple of dogs three

kids a nice little town home in san francisco what did she think was going to happen did she think that she was ever going to have a normal life no she did not think she was going to have a normal life with this man she thought she was going to have a life of debauchery where they would just go around victimizing other people and get off on it. And you know what I think of when I see these two individuals? I think of Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka. And if nobody knows what I'm talking about, I have a multi-part series on these two evil individuals on YouTube. They're from Canada. Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka went on together as a couple to rape, torture, and murder several young women, including Carla's own little sister. Okay. So some people are just evil and this this bitch Carla okay she acted like a victim too

that woman is out walking around now that woman is out walking around after she drugged her sister to the point where she died and then watched her boyfriend rape her sister this woman is out there taking her kids to school right now. All right. Unacceptable. So we know, so we know the question we have, right? For this week. So that's our, that's our question for this week. For sure. We had the one a couple of weeks ago was Herb was a customer, right? And I mean, people went off on that, right? So that's the question to you guys. Are you with me or are you with Stephanie? and you can correct me if i'm wrong on this what i'm saying is i think denali is the scum of the earth and at the end of the day nobody

nobody forced her hand to do what she did but i do think darren used some powers of manipulation to get her on that track stephanie disagrees and so we want to hear from you guys what do you think do you think that and it stopped me from wrong if i'm understanding you correctly stephanie darren is pure evil and essentially what you're saying is denali is pure evil as well and they just happen to find each other yep right is that fair okay so that's that's where stephanie's at and it's a it's a compelling argument i I'm saying that I think- It's not an argument. It's a fact, okay? This woman is vile. No, she's pure evil. I'm saying that I think Darren found her- So you admit I'm right.

You just said she's pure evil. She is. Oh, yes. No, I agree with you. She's pure evil. No doubt about it. And I've said it in the first one. I'll say it in this one.

Nobody made her do what she did. And I think there was part of her that really enjoyed it. So to your point, pure evil, all I'm saying is it sounds like, again, it sounds like Darren started this where he basically might've proposed this idea to her and she clearly was in for it. And I'm just saying that I think based on her saying, I love you twice. And it's probably saying it, you know, previous occasions before CC, whatever. It doesn't appear that Tyler, uh, I'm sorry, I'm even calling it Tyler now too. Darren was in love with her. So if he knew he had no feelings for her, wasn't in love with her, was never planning on giving her the 9 million was never probably even planning on meeting up with her. Right. Cause even the points where the 14 or 15 year old said like, well, maybe you can, maybe you can, you know,

be there. He didn't acknowledge and say, yeah, maybe I will be. Cause he knew he was never going anywhere near them. And so I'm just saying from that point perspective, he knew what he, what they believed was going to happen, money, possible sex down the road, a possible relationship with Denali. I think in his mind, he knew that was never going to be the case. And therefore, he used that to convince Denali that there may be a future between them, even though that was clearly not the case. How did he convince her? You don't hear him say, I love you back to her. Wait, wait, did he? No, he says I love you too. Okay, there you go.

And I didn't even know that. But then he follows that by saying I have lots of coming to do. I mean with her. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. Your boyfriend tells you he loves you and then tells you he has lots of coming to do with a 15-year-old girl. Oh, I mean, well, yeah. That's true love.

That's everything I've always wanted. When I was nine, I was sitting here thinking, oh, you know, screw the wedding and the dress and the cake. I just want a Darren Schillmiller. That's who I want to ride away with me into the distance. No, no. This, you know, I'm going to say, I'm going to say it. Like attracts like, okay?

You attract people to you that are like you. Because if it was a normal person who didn't have this darkness in their soul the the conversation would have been cut off from the get-go the second he was like I have a you know thing for children or I have rape fantasies listen I'm not going to judge people's sex lives I don't think having rape fantasies is necessarily a terrible thing if it's done with healthy and you know consensual adults but when you mix the i have a child porn fetish with i've raped fantasies this is an issue the second he said that the second he said i need you to go kill someone a normal person who had a moral compass

who knew the difference between right and wrong would have been like whoa no way this is out no this is way out of you know what i what i expected and cut it off okay i'm out there's plenty of fish in the sea you don't need to be talking with this creep on the internet period she was into it good i agree so that's that's the question guys again for my from my perspective not saying at all that Denali is a victim at all. She's not. I, our question to you is, do you think Darren manipulated Denali in any, any way, shape or form? Or do you think that these were two like-minded individuals who just happened to find each other and decided to carry out something that they both wanted? That's the question, right? Am I, did I phrase that right?

Yeah. While you're contemplating that question think about Carla Homolka and Paul Bernardo think about Ian Brady and Myra Hindley you know these are couples who live of Fred and Rosemary West okay it's not like it doesn't happen it happens all right so I'm gonna go on don't be stacking the deck don't be stacking the deck Stephanie think about them think about them she's stuck in let's take a quick break and we'll come right back so let's talk about getting sick for a minute because it has been something that's been prevalent for me this past week and a half i have been really sick i have an ear infection i have a sinus infection and i have to take antibiotics and then i also

have to take probiotics because you know that's just a smart thing to do and you know there's other medications that I take on a daily basis and it's just started to get to become a lot Amazon pharmacy is awesome it makes everything so much easier because when you're sick you don't feel like going out to a bunch of different pharmacies you don't feel like doing much of anything so Amazon pharmacy actually saves you time it delivers your medication directly to your door you don't have to wait in line at the pharmacy, which you don't even want to do when you're not sick, but you definitely don't want to do when you are sick. It's also really easy. You just have your doctor's office send your next prescription straight to Amazon Pharmacy instead of whatever pharmacy you normally use, and you can use your insurance. So it works with most

insurance plans nationwide. Also, as an additional benefit, Amazon Prime members get free two-day delivery and they save on prescription medication when paying without insurance. Yeah, Amazon Pharmacy, I gave it a shot. I wanted to check it out, obviously, before putting it out to you guys. It is pretty intuitive. Anybody who has Amazon Prime, which I think a lot of people do, it's no different than buying anything else you would buy on Amazon. But again, it's one of those things where for most people where we're used to having to go to your local pharmacy to pick up your medications. And it's not the end of the world, but that's that time-saving opportunity where instead of having to get the kids dressed and run out just to get one or two prescriptions for you or your children, you can just click a button online and it's going to be to you in two days.

Yeah, I really, everyone knows, if you know me, I don't like leaving the house for anything. And I do get a lot of regular prescriptions. So it would be so easy, just like I have everything else auto-shipped to me from Amazon, it would be so easy to just have my prescriptions come too and not have to think like, oh, I have to pick them up or I have to send my husband to pick them up or, you know, I got to call my doctor and see if they sent the prescription. It just all happens so easily. So if you are

interested in checking Amazon Pharmacy out, Amazon Prime members can save on prescription medications when not using insurance and get free two-day delivery learn more at amazon.com slash crime weekly that's amazon.com slash crime weekly i'll tell you two one more time amazon.com slash crime weekly and i'm going to talk about darren schillmiller now okay because this guy's got he's got some he's got a past all right let me get my notes here darren do we really i'm so sick of this guy already but yes we do have to talk about him because there is a lot, there's a lot more about him. Sure is. So Darren Schillmiller is a 2017 graduate from North Harrison High School. He lived in a single-story brick home with an older relative on nearly two acres of land in Salisbury, Indiana, which is a small,

rural farming community. Some former classmates of Darren's describe him as a shy young man who struggled in school but treated others well. He was more likely to be bullied than to be a bully, but one woman who attended middle school and high school with Darren said that although no one ever thought he would kill anybody, he did have a problem with child pornography. She said that he would bug her relentlessly for bikini photos and he once tried to friend her on Facebook using a fake profile.

It apparently was also well known around this town of just 600 people that Darren would ask like the local mothers for pictures of their children and several people told KTUU in Alaska that Darren's affinity for images of young children was well known. An open secret that they just didn't recognize as a bigger problem. Because it's not a big problem as it is, right? It's not a bigger problem or an enormous problem already that he likes to, you know, look at child pornography. Is that a big problem that he's soliciting the local women to send him pictures of their children? That's not a big problem. You know, it's going to be fine.

It's just something small we don't have to worry about. And apparently a bunch of women have now come out saying that Darren messaged them using fake names like Austin and Dylan, and he asked them to send pictures of their children or pictures of them changing their baby's diapers. He allegedly asked one of these women, her name's Brittany Meeks, she dated Darren on and off during high school. I'm so sorry Brittany Meeks by the way that must have been horrendous and Brittany claims that Darren allegedly asked her to sexually assault her four-month-old son and send him videos of this act and apparently Brittany did not think that this was worth reporting Brittany actually claims that she had experienced sexual violence from

Darren in the past and she said the reason she broke up with him is because he was trying to force her to do sexual things that she didn't want to do. Now even though Darren has pretty much confessed to all of this and there's plenty of evidence to prove his involvement he's decided to plead not guilty to both the murder charges and the federal pornography charges but let's talk for a moment about uh about the the community of Salisbury, Indiana and uh why they thought that this well-known secret of Darren Schillmiller being interested in child pornography was just not something to be concerned about. What's your take? Well, I mean, hindsight is 20-20, so I'm not condemning any of them, although this goes

back to what you and I say all the time, which is if you see something, say something. If you hear something, you should say something. This is a situation where it's better to err on the side of caution. And if you have someone asking for pictures of you changing your child, that needs to be reported. That simple. Not even that. He asked Brittany to sexually assault her four month old child and then send videos of it. I mean, well, that to me is like a no brainer. That to me is a no brainer. But I'm saying even something more subtle. Right. It's something that if it's not a normal thing, Everyone knows everyone. And if you're going to accuse someone of something, you got to make sure that you're you're 100 percent accurate because then you'll get, you know, blackballed by the rest of the town. I'm not trying to justify. Exactly. I'm not trying to justify. I don't think there's any justification for it. And I don't think either one of us are sitting here like, you know, really, you know, pegging down on the on the people who didn't say anything. Although if they would have, maybe this doesn't happen, what we're talking about tonight, right?

Exactly. If they report it and they're diligent about it, maybe you and I aren't sitting here discussing the death of CeCe. And so from that lens, it really does frustrate me. I can see that it frustrates you. And that's why we keep telling you guys in the world we live in today, when something like this happens, even if it's not as severe as the second situation where he asked her to molest her daughter, there's nothing wrong with calling the police

and making them aware of a situation and asking to remain anonymous. And the police may not even reach out to this person right away. They may just start doing some research, maybe look into some, you know, maybe they have another file or another complaint that came in from someone different about the same person. But if you don't report it, they won't know. So yes, I'm a hundred percent on board with you, Stephanie. There's a real possibility that if they had done something or said something, we could have avoided everything that we're talking about, you know, tonight and last week. I spend a lot of my time trying to be fair because my initial reaction, like anybody else's, is to look for somebody to blame. This is a natural human reaction, I think, right? Something goes wrong. Somebody loses their life. Let's look for somebody to blame. And I try to avoid that because I don't think it's always productive.

I'm out of patience with being fair and unbiased because I am so sick of this stuff happening. And then a big majority of the conversation is spent on trying to figure out like, well, you know, how much of a victim was the perpetrator? Now, there are some clear-cut cases where I believe that the perpetrator of certain crimes may be a victim in their own right. And I will admit that when it comes to light. When it crosses my desk, I'll admit it. But I am just out of patience with the depravity and the evilness that is existing in this world. And then people, they try to get out of it by, you know, I was not in my right mind. I have an illness. I'm a mental insanity.

It's disrespectful to all of those people out there who have legitimate mental illnesses. When these people kill others, commit these horrible acts of violence against others when they just hurt people and then they try to just get off by acting as if they were the victim. I'm out of patience for it and I don't think anybody in this story is a victim besides Cece and we need to start really handling these cases more in that way because if we spend all this time thinking about why, why did they do this? What was going through their heads? I mean, I enjoy that as much as the next, but Darren's telling us what's going through his head, right? We don't have to even question it. We don't have to even

have a conversation about it, where in some cases we do, because the motive's not clear. The motive's clear here. There is no excuse. There's no mercy for these people. And I'm out of patience. I'm fed up. And my job here is to be a voice for those who don't have a voice any longer. You know what? Denali and Darren and the rest of these psychopaths, sociopaths, evil people, they still have a voice. They can defend themselves until the cows come home. But Cece doesn't get that voice anymore. Okay. Her father doesn't have his daughter. Her siblings don't have their sister.

She doesn't get a life and they do. So I don't care. I don't want to be their voice in this specific situation. And on that note, let's get back to Denali for a moment because she's not. You didn't answer the question. Oh, what was your question? No, let's get back to Denali for a moment because she's not. Wait, you didn't answer the question. Oh, what was your question? No, it's your question. I honestly, I agree with everything you just said.

I don't know how that relates to what. I'm just saying, like, I'm out of patience. Like, I'm sitting here and I'm thinking, you know, am I being unfair? Because this is my natural reaction to be like, are you being too severe? Are you being too extreme? Like, are you not being fair? But I don't even have the mental capacity at this point, especially from the last couple of cases that I've personally covered myself on YouTube these past couple of weeks. Like, I do not any longer have the mental capacity, at least this month, to sit here and be like, oh, I got to worry about everyone and I have to be fair and I have to be unbiased.

Like, I'm worried about the victims. I'm here for the victims, right? Yes. We both are for sure. And I agree with you. I guess the question originally was as far as, you know, Darren Schillmiller's hometown and these individuals not coming forward to what, what's your take on that? Why do you, why do you think that they didn't? It's unacceptable. It's complacency. It's, it's the status quo. And it really makes me wonder, what other individuals are running around Salisbury, Indiana, that you thought Darren Schillmiller wasn't a threat? Okay, what other kind of people do you have running around there that this guy seemed benign to you? This is my question to all of the community in Salisbury, Indiana. And I understand, okay?

I'm going to try to pull it back. I'm going to try to be fair. You are going off. I'm so over it. All right. I understand. Brittany Meek said she had experienced sexual violence at his hands before. And so she's, she's afraid, but you know what? You're not a teenager in high school anymore. Okay. You are a grown woman who has a child that this, this man just asked you to sexually assault and send pictures of this sexual assault to him. And you're going to let him continue to run around the neighborhood in the presence of other children, because you're afraid at some point you have to step up. You have to take responsibility. You have to think about somebody else besides you, because you can have protection. Okay. You have to think about somebody else besides you because you can have protection.

Okay, you can have protection. You can go to the police and you can say, listen, this guy, he said this to me. I'm worried about the kids of Salisbury, Indiana, but I'm also afraid of him. So can you please, you know, make sure that I'm safe? And, you know, once again, it's Salisbury, Indiana. This goes back to our initial opening conversation. Brittany, get yourself a gun. And if Darren Schillmiller steps foot inside your house,

then you take care of this problem for the world. Period. Don't do that. I don't want you to go to jail, Brittany. Why? She wouldn't go to jail if he came to her house to hurt her. Oh, no, he didn't. But he was basically saying he wanted her to sexually assault her child.

She says she didn't shine a light on this because she had experienced what she called sexual violence at his hands before. Therefore, a.k.a. she's afraid that she might be hurt by him. Right.

So get your gun, Brittany. And if Darren Schillmiller darks on your doorstep with the intent to harm you, then end him. Okay? Make it very easy. Take care of this problem for the rest of the people out there that he's going to potentially victimize in the future. But you are not a victim. You don't need to be a victim. Okay? You need to stand up for others who cannot stand up for themselves like children. And this is the one place, and I think that this is a very hot button issue for me. I'm going to admit it when it comes to crimes against children.

I don't have tolerance. I don't have tolerance for people who look the other way. As an adult, it's your job to stand up and say, no, this is wrong. I will not tolerate it and I will do anything I can to stop it. If nobody's going to speak for these children, if nobody's going to protect them, they cannot do it for themselves. But you can do it for yourself. So that's my opinion. I think it's absolutely disgusting. Like when I was when I was doing the research and I was looking into this, I was like, oh, I can see that. I can see how she'd be afraid. But then I, you know, I'm sitting here now and I'm like, no, no, like I'm done. I'm out of patience. There's always something you can do besides do nothing, period. So let's talk about hair for a second because I'm actually a really big believer in using hair products that are tailored specifically for your

hair type. Everybody has different hair type. Even if my hair looks exactly the same as somebody else's, it's so much different. So I really, really am so happy to be using Proz because they create customized hair products for people, not hair types. You'll never have to compromise on healthy hair goals because every product's formula is made with you in mind. Their freshly made-to-order products are designed to transform you through seasonal and lifestyle changes. I have very, very curly, coarse hair generally, and people usually don't see my hair like that because I straighten it. So I have all sorts of different hair types. I have different needs when I'm wearing it straight and different needs when I'm wearing it curly, which is why I

really enjoy pros because I can have different shampoos and conditioners and hair products made up depending on how I want to wear my hair and exactly how my hair is. Pros knows that there's more to you than just your hair type and they've given over 1 million consultations with their in-depth hair quiz which is exactly how I got started. It's so easy. You just have to answer a couple questions about your hair. It also asks you about your zip code, which at first I was a little like, what? What do they want to know this? Like, stop watching me, big brother. But it wasn't that.

They just want to know what kind of environment. Like, is it very humid? Is it very dry? And they're going to tailor your products based on not only your hair type, but the environment that your hair is in, which is very, very smart. And with their algorithm and over 50 billion formula combinations, pros determined a unique blend of ingredients to treat my exact concerns. So I have shampoo and conditioner, and that's specifically tailored for when I wear my hair curly. I also got the curl cream, which is awesome. These products smell so good. You can choose between some scents,

but they're very light. They're not like overpowering because I know some people are sensitive to to strong scents and I've just been loving the the hair products I found that they've made my hair very soft very shiny not not really fuller because I already had full hair to begin with but full to the point where it's not frizzy and just you know all over the place But if you're not 100% positive that Proz is the best hair care you've had, they will take the products back, no questions asked. And I know that your wife's been using them too, Derek. So I think you should give it a try as well. I have. Like you said, my wife's name's on the bottle. She had taken the hair quiz. I thought she would get more use out of

it. But listen, you're in the shower, you see it. I'm curious. I'm going to try it. It smells great. And I am a big proponent of, you know, taking care of your hair. You know, I have longer hair as a for a guy. And I really do take pride in making sure that you want to keep it healthy. And part of doing that is making sure you're using good shampoos and conditioners, because as we all know, if you use the stuff that's not that great, it could affect your hair growth over the long term. So listen, PROSE is a healthy hair regimen with your name all over it. Take your free in-depth hair quiz and get 15% off your first order today. Go to PROSE.com slash Crime Weekly. That's P-R-O-S-E dot com slash Crime Weekly for your free in-depth hair quiz and 15% off. I also want to mention they sent me this awesome brush and the brush it's like a wooden handle and it's so good for my hair because it doesn't disturb my curls when I want to wear it curly but besides that which is something I just noticed after using it three times they put my initials on the brush sh it's awesome.

You did you did mention that. I feel feel so fancy so guys listen trust stephanie right she knows what she's talking about again that's pros.com slash crime weekly so i want to talk about darren i want to talk about now i want to talk about because she's she's not off the hook no matter how much she wants to cry victim or claim that she was catfished um both caden mcintosh and Denali were arrested early on in the investigation. Kayden was arrested on June 5th and Denali on June 7th. But apparently they let her out on bail after she was arrested because she missed her first court appearance. And that was on June 8th. And she'd also posted some stories to her friends

on Snapchat. Now in these stories, this must have been, I don't know if it was before the arrest or And that was on June 8th. And she'd also posted some stories to her friends on Snapchats. Now, in these stories, this must have been, I don't know if it was before the arrest or after, because I believe both Caden and Denali got out on bail at some point. Because in these Snapchat stories, you can see Caden McIntosh, like, walking around in the background. And Denali says, quote, I just want to thank everyone who's been there for me my whole life and these past few years and everything. I effed up. I know I did. If I could take back what I've done, I can't. I'm sorry, everybody, my family, my friends. I guess you will hear from me when you hear from me, but I won't be back for a long time. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do it. I didn't mean to do it. End quote. You didn't mean

to do it, but you did. And now you're sorry because you got caught because if you didn't get caught you wouldn't be saying you were sorry you wouldn't be apologizing to everybody and you wouldn't be you know saying i didn't mean to do it you only are saying this because you got caught that's just my opinion well and now to your point from what i was reading if i was reading it correctly they let them out on bail right you know because obviously they have, they do this due process. But because of the Snapchat video, the investigators took it as a confession. They took it as a confession. I believe they started, they re-engaged her after this from what I was reading.

I believe so. Yes. Yeah. They re-engaged her after this because this was something that I don't think they had before they arrested her. You know, when they when she goes on Snapchat and says this and even the way you just read it, it sounds like a confession. Right. So I think they reengaged her and she might have been brought back in after that, where she was. Her bail was revoked at that point because of this new

information. Don't hold me to that. But that was the way I interpreted it. I mean, it's possible. But why let her out on bail to begin with begin with well that's that's a whole different conversation for a different day right you know but because it basically bail is not a bail is not a form of punishment it's supposed to be to guarantee that the person shows back up for the next court date don't kill the messenger exactly but that's what i'm saying don't kill the messenger but that's what bail is basically designed to do to set something where as long as the person is not a flight risk whatever they set will most likely guarantee that they'll appear in court when they're due clearly it didn't work here but that's the way it's that's the way it's designed so but then when she made this this the statement on snapchat

it got back to investigators and i think anybody listening to you speak right now would interpret that the same way it sounds like she's basically admitting to what she's being accused of and that she's going to be going away for it. So I think they brought her back in after that. At minimum, I don't know if they rearrested her, but they at minimum brought her back in to question her about that. And here's the thing. I appreciate that she's willing to say that she's sorry.

You know, that's hard. That's hard for some people to say that she's sorry. You know, that's hard. That's hard for some people to say that they're sorry. But she's not saying, I'm sorry to Cynthia's family. I'm sorry to my family, to my friends, to everybody who's been there for me. Not, I'm sorry to Cynthia's family because I've stolen somebody from your life forever. You'll never get the chance to say that you love her again. You'll never get the chance to say that you love her again.

You'll never get the chance to celebrate another birthday. You'll never get a chance to hold her. You'll never get a chance to say goodbye. You had your last moments with Cece and you didn't even know it because of me. And I'm sorry for that. I would have respected that a hell of a lot more. Yeah. And also, you know, again, it goes back to, is she saying she's sorry because of what she did or sorry she got caught? And for me, I think facts are the deciding factor there. And when you think about the fact that after killing Cece, she wasn't sitting in her house somewhere contemplating what she had just done. She was out sexually assaulting two other children you know try and

also by the way they you know and i don't want to steal the thunder here but you know there were thoughts of having of killing someone else that was eventually you know derailed but that doesn't sound like a person that's feeling remorseful about what they did those thoughts were derailed by her arrest correct okay. Okay. Correct. So is she really sorry about anything or sorry that she got caught? And I think it's the latter. I think most of the time people are mainly sorry that they got caught. I would agree with that.

Yeah, I would agree with that. The fact that she didn't show up to her court date shows me that. If this woman felt remorseful for what she did, she would have shown up to court and taken her just desserts and sat there and gotten her justice but she didn't so did you say just desserts just desserts is that a thing it is is it really a thing or did you yes is that the thing you guys say just desserts like justice i don't know what it means but it means something just desserts didn't show up and get her just desserts i'm gonna look it up now get one's just desserts receive the appropriate reward or more usually punishment

for one's actions ah yeah don't even put me on Jeopardy, okay? All right, so Denali, Caden, and Caleb, and we haven't really talked about Caleb in this part, so he was the one who actually gave them his truck so that they could go and lure Cece out into the woods and kill her. They've actually been charged with murder, but the discovery hearing has been postponed twice, and evidently there's a lot more that we don't know about, because as we spoke about at the end of the last part, part one, on Tuesday, January 29th, 2020, prosecutors handed 56 gigabytes of material to the defense team and the assistant DA, his name's Patrick McKay he told the judge that if it was all printed out it would be over 100,000 pages and there were 60,000 pages of information from just one cell phone extraction alone both Darren

Schillmiller and Denali Bremer have been indicted on federal child pornography and child exploitation charges as you had mentioned you know after Cece's death Denali and Darren were planning another murder and the only thing that put a stop to that was the fact that she was arrested and then he was arrested so these two individuals would have gone on I truly 100 million percent believe they would have gone on to do this to somebody else especially if they hadn't got it caught for what happened to Cece yeah we said that in the last episode. Remember that? And I 100% agree with you that if they hadn't been caught, this would have been something that Darren would have had her carrying out on a consistent basis. And based on her responses, she was completely okay with that. She would have done it. Yeah. Yes, I agree. I agree wholeheartedly.

And there's some video footage on YouTube of Denali in court. And when you see Denali in court, she appears to be completely emotionless. You know, she made a statement that she knew what she had done was wrong. And she knows she could have probably done something different. This statement really pisses me off, by the way. Because it's such a cop out. Not, I did something wrong. And given the opportunity, I would never do that again. I probably, I probably would.

She can't even say 100% that she would not do it again. Probably would have done something different. Like maybe 75%, but there's still a 25% chance that I would have done the exact same thing. I mean, at least she can be honest with herself and with us, right? She also makes reference to her own child. And before this week, when I was looking back into this case, because I talked about it a year ago, I'd never even heard that she had a child. So I don't know what's going on with that. It's very hush hush. I can't really find anything about it. But Denali's two older sisters spoke to the local media and they shed

some light on Denali's childhood. So apparently she's the third child out of five girls. And at one point or another, all five of these children had been removed from their mother's care. But the abuse came to a tipping point when the man living with their mother at the time killed their two-month-old baby sister, Gabriella, according to alaskannewsource.com. So Denali was adopted by her family that she's currently with. She was adopted at a very young age, but her sisters believe that she was affected by this trauma from her early years. Brenna Martinez, Denali's middle sister, said, quote, We all had really hard lives, and I feel like she took the wrong road with the wrong people who didn't care about her and now she's paying the ultimate cost

end quote you know and as empathetic as I am because if we're talking about child Denali I have empathy I don't want to ever see any child in a home where they're being abused or neglected or made to feel like crap about themselves. This is literally how horrible people are made. It starts with parenting. It starts with your childhood. Are you treated with love, with respect, with kindness? Are your basic needs fulfilled? You're going to turn into a decent person. Maybe not all the time, but normally, 98% of the time, you're going to probably turn out to be a decent person. But if you're abused, if you're neglected, if you're told, you know, you can't do anything right, you suck. Yeah, you're going to, you're going to grow up with some problems.

But as, you know, as empathetic as I am of that, I do have to disagree with Denali's sister Brenna on this one. Because it was actually Cece. Cece paid the ultimate cost. Cece paid with her life for something that she didn't even do. You know, Denali's childhood had nothing to do with Cece. Cece didn't do these things to Denali. Cece had no part of it. So Denali did not pay the ultimate price. Cece did. Overall overall you know I I think we we're here we've been we've been here I've told you I just cannot find it in me to feel sympathy for Denali I mean even her sisters agreed that Denali's adopted family or her adoptive family they gave her the opportunity to break this cycle but she still chose to do this to someone who trusted her someone who considered

Denali to be her best friend it's not as if Tyler or Darren or baby or whoever he was or whatever she called him it's not as if he was standing next to her with a gun to her head right she had every opportunity to put down her phone walk away from his bananas requests but from what I've read in her text messages to him right Denali was actually enjoying the activities that he was making her do and before she took part in Cece's murder she could have gone to the police she could have explained that things started out innocently enough you know and then they escalated and she just didn't want to have anything to do with it at this point she's like oh I talked to this guy and then he started making crazy requests.

You could have turned him in, but she didn't, right? And I don't care. I don't care if someone offers you $9 or $90 million. If you make a deal to murder someone else for any amount of money, you just are not a good person. Some things are very black and white in life. There's a lot of gray areas in life, but some person some things are very black and white in life there's a lot of gray areas in life but some things are very very black and white you're not a good person if you make a deal to take another life for money or for any other reason yeah and

we have to keep in mind that uh darren as bad as he is and he's the bottom of the barrel and we've said it numerous times, Denali was in a different state with no one around her physically forcing her to do any of this. These were conscious decisions that she made on her own for someone she had never met. So she had an excuse for doing it, but at the end of the day, she was the one who carried out the murder, right? And again, and you know, we haven't talked a ton about Caleb or Caden. And we know that Caden is the one who shot Cece. There's so little known about him out there. There's just not anything out there about him. Right. But again, he shot her.

But Denali brought the gun. And so, you know, I'm not saying Caden's a good person. I'm not saying Caden is like, oh, right. Innocent of this. Right. No, exactly. a sort of symbiotic relationship like none of these people I don't know if any of these people would have gone gone on to do anything wrong if they hadn't been telling each other to do all these horrible things it's sort of a you know you feel safe in the crowd like oh these other people are along for the ride so I'm almost safe I'm shrouded in this obscurity I'm just part of a crowd I'm part of this hive mind this This isn't me doing this. It's me doing this with a group of people. Therefore, I'm not as culpable. I'm only, you know, 20% culpable. I think that there's this diffusion of responsibility that happens when you get into a crowd mentality. Yeah. And they're all, they're all, spoiler alert, they're all equally guilty

and culpable. You know, there is no, so it's one of those things where, you know, we're talking about specifically Denali here just because of, you know, what her sister said. And as far as her background, and I know some out there, Mike, oh, my God, that's terrible that she grew up like that. But I know I know people and I'm sure you do where, you know, I know I know individuals who have been involved in horrific upbringings worse than Denali's and turned out to be incredible individuals, if anything, better individuals than most because of what they've experienced and what they and how and they realize how precious life is and how important it is to be a good contributing member of society. And some people go the opposite route. Clearly, Denali chose the other way.

I absolutely agree with you. And I always use this sort of comparison. You know, if you are a kid and you have like a parent, right? And it's a bad parent, a bad parent, not necessarily abusive, but just, you know, maybe authoritarian, maybe, maybe abusive. You at one point are going to go on to either be exactly like that and continue the cycle of abuse or you're going to go on to be the opposite because you know how terrible it was growing up with a parent like that and you don't want to subject anybody else to that. But in the end, which path you choose, I 100% believe is your choice. It's not ingrained in your DNA. It's not

like, well, I had a shitty parent, so I'm going to grow up to be a shitty parent. If you have that sort of defeatist attitude, then don't have kids. But in the end, the choice was made for Denali by Denali, right? She could have said, oh, yes, I can follow my impulse and I can, you know, do this, but I recognize that there's a darkness in me and I don't want to embrace that she chose to embrace that darkness she took she saw the fork in the road and she went I don't know left right I don't know which way she took the bad path Derek you know and the worst part not the worst part but one of one of the worst parts after Denali had stolen Cece from her family and from the world

Denali proceeded to rub salt in the wound and she was texting Cece's father you know Timothy Hoffman about how much she loved Cece and how worried she was and oh I know she's gonna come home soon and you know I love her I hope I hope she comes home soon like this is awful you have to be a truly soulless person to do that. This tells me specifically that she did not feel bad. You know, she was more concerned about being caught. So she's going to do everything she can to cover her ass and, you know, portray and demonstrate this, oh, worried friend as if she wasn't standing right there when Timothy Hoffman's daughter, who was so precious to him, so cherished by him, was shot in the head. Denali stood there and videotaped it. And then she has the balls to text this man and say, oh, I love her so much and I'm so worried. Oh, it just

makes me sick. It makes me sick. And it did bother me because the articles about this case kept saying she was catfished as if this somehow makes it better or makes it less bad at least you know i i we've talked about this but i don't know what are your what are your final thoughts well before i get into my final thoughts what i would like to do is i i was able to find a video from timothy hoffman online and it it's from, I believe it's, it's from the court after Darren, Darren's first appearance. It's the first time that Timothy got to see Darren in court. And,

uh, this reporter interviewed him and I just have a lot of respect for him after, after watching the interview. And for people who are listening in on audio, you'll only hear the audio, but if you're watching on YouTube, you'll get to see the video so we can play it now and then we can talk about that because i think he actually he rounds it out very nicely as far as what has to take place from

this point forward where he's at right now and and how he's going to let the court system ultimately decide uh what happens to the individuals responsible for his daughter's death. Even though you can tell by listening to him, he's having some thoughts that I'm sure have crossed all of our minds at one point or another while listening or watching this. So we'll play it now and you guys can check it out and we'll weigh in on it. What was it like seeing him in court today? I've been waiting for a long time. And I'm ready. What's it like?

It's going to be a bunch of rounds from now until it's over. But I won't miss one. When he walked in, he was emotional. He was wiping tears away. What did you think about that? and one thing only, and that's justice, and that's to make them rot in jail where all them people could send them to hell. I was going to ask for you, not just with him, but with all the suspects, what does justice look like for you? I've gone for the full 99 years,

and I ain't going to stop coming to everybody. Here's my cry. It won't be emotional one. It will be one that the court. The good Lord will be on my side and it's already nationwide. I'm sure there's a lot of people on my side in that case. the judge has to hear it. He's one of six individuals accused of having some role in your daughter's death. Do you feel any differently about any of the six?

No. I think they all ought to cry, even the teenagers. To make a decision they made, to make the plot they plotted, to plan out my daughter's death, that's not being a teenager. That's being an adult. They all ought to be tried as one. They all ought to stay in these courts, put the age aside, and give them what they rightly deserve.

I hear one of them wants to play a victim, but they're not victims. They planned all this. A few of them even came to my house to come into my house as friends for my daughter and to do what they did to her. I am backing off of this. Yes, I feel that he's just as responsible of everybody else. They may have plotted it up here, but he offered the $9 million. He offered the means to have it done. Even though he didn't have the money to back it all up, he still was the one that coached all them people to do what they did.

To them, it was about money. Some about jealousy. But to Sheila Miller, it was about being a pervert. How's your family doing? My wife don't come out of the house much. It's hard to get a smile on her face. My daughter stays up late at night all the time. I have to tell her when it's time to go to bed, even though she's an adult. I've told everybody together, and then myself, I work 12 hours a day to keep it out of my mind, but it never leaves it. You very much kept your composure in the courtroom today.

How did you prepare yourself for that? When they made the statement about the first-degree murders and all them other ones, I wanted to stand up and tell the judge that was my daughter. But this case is about child pornography, and so until I have the right to stand up and say something, I'll keep my calm. Do you plan to speak Friday at his hearing in state court? I will be there Friday. On Friday, I'm going to bring something where he can see on firsthand what he did to my family.

But everybody will know that on Friday. He could see on first hand what he did to my family. But everybody will know that on Friday. Well, like I said, when they came up with the murder on the state to keep them in detention. I wanted to stand up in front of all them people and tell them that was my daughter that got murdered. This guy changed my entire life. He destroyed a lot, and now I've got to fix it and mend it and sew it together. I have to keep my family strong and make things go right.

Do you have any sort of indication from the attorneys where they're at in the process with figuring out if the other defendants will be moved to adult court? Not yet. I read on Channel 11 that the audit let Mr. Hoff Hoffman be put in a room 30 minutes with him. And that'd been nice. But I'll still go with my faith, not revenge. I'll let justice do his job. How hard is that, though? Very.

The process is slow. It's very hard for me. Back in the day, I would have probably flew down there and brought them up myself, willingly or unwillingly. Nowadays, I'm a parent. I'm responsible. I'm all about my children, and it's all about family. And that's the only thing I stand up for. Okay.

So I'll start. I'm a big fan of Timothy Hoffman and, you know, not because of what he's gone through, but just how calm and collected and composed. And I mean, this is just my take on it. You can tell Timothy was a badass or is a badass. And he probably had some things he wanted to say but the way he spoke he's a great speaker and he was very the way he looked him in the eye and what he had to say it was just really well it's really well said and he said a lot of things that i'd want to repeat but the

first thing he said was you know i've been waiting for this a long uh a long time and and i'm ready you know i'm ready so you know, he was prepared for this day and a lot of respect for him because some of the things he said near the end, as far as, you know, I wish I had 30 minutes in a room with him. That'd be nice. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna let my faith,

I'm gonna rely on my faith and let justice do its job. Credit to him because I can honestly sit here with you and tell you that if it were my daughter, I don't know, I don't know if I would have that in me. I guess you'd have to be in that situation to know, but I don't think I'd have the courage to, to, to handle it like he is. Even with everything I've been through in my life. I don't, if it was my daughter, I don't know if I'd be able to do what he's doing or speak the way he's so eloquently

spoke, spoke about it. Yeah. Timothy Hoffman. Um, I give him a lot of respect. I don't like you. I don't think I could have kept my composure and they they mentioned that that he was very cool and collected during court I don't I don't think I could be but I guess we we probably would be in that situation because we we would have to be right you want to be taken seriously you want the the trial and and the the whole situation to be about Cynthia so you don't want to be making a scene, but every cell in his body was probably screaming out to make a scene, was probably screaming out to just stand up and, you know, just lose it on these people. And, you know, some of the things he said,

they're not victims, 100% agree. He said a few of them came to his house. Oh my God. cent degree he said a few of them came to his house oh my god can you imagine that you opened your home to these people who went on to plan your daughter's murder this family is destroyed his wife doesn't want to leave the house his daughter can't sleep he this family's destroyed and as any family would be. And, you know, he says, I don't care about Darren's motion because the report is like, you know, he was really emotional. Tears were streaming down his face.

Who the hell cares? I don't care about Darren and his, his demonstrative performative tears coming down his eyes. He's probably just really sad that he's going to be in prison and he won't have access to his child pornography anymore. That's what he's crying about. And then, you know, he says something that's very moving to me. He says, I ain't going to stop coming until everybody hears my cry. And then he says, I'm sure there's a lot of people on my side. There are a lot of people on your side. I'm on your side. Derek's on your side. I hope everybody watching is on your side because as much as we can admit that there was factors that caused these people to do what they did, we can also admit that those factors at this point are irrelevant because there's tons of people who go through the same

exact thing and do not go on to victimize others. And you know, you should not stop coming until everybody hears your cry and everybody knows the name cc hoffman because she lost her life she didn't do anything wrong except just want to have friends and i don't i don't think that's a crime yeah and so we'll be watching i know i'll be watching i know you'll be watching i think i think everyone listening or watching this will be paying attention. April 28th. April 28th. It's right around the corner.

We're about 12 days away, 10 days away from this. So it's coming up quickly, and hopefully after this discovery hearing the trial will get underway and we'll start to get some answers as far as what the punishment will be. He said he's looking for the 99 years. I think that's not enough, but that's the max. So that's what he's going for. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's going for the max. Um, I mean, takeaways from this case, you know, as you just said perfectly, you know, CC did nothing wrong. Um, but I will, I will read a quote that I found interesting

and it's from a U S attorney, the U S attorney in Alaska, uh, Brian Schroeder. And he said, for all the good the internet can do, it can be a very dark place. And, you know, as we sit here looking back at this case and trying to take something away from it, you know, I'm in, I'm putting on the helmet of like, you know, I'm a parent now. Right. And, and, and people out there may be looking at it differently depending on their life situation. But Cece was 19 at the time. And so she was technically an adult, but she was still living with her dad. And, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with taking an interest in what your kids are doing and having an open relationship where you keep an eye on who they're talking to online and who they're talking to on the phone and who they're around. And it's

easy to see the best in people because you think they're young kids like, you know, this girl, I'm sure Denali and Caleb and Caden were coming around. I'm assuming that's who Timothy was alluding to, by the way, as far as a few of them came by my house, you know, came to my home. And so, you know, really take a vested interest in who your kids are hanging around with. And you may not always get it right. In fact, you may get it wrong a lot of the time. But I even do it now with Tenley, my older daughter, because it's like, you just never know. And I'd rather be a little overbearing than complacent.

And there is a fine line between it. I'm learning every day, but I really think all of us as parents have to take a vested interest into who our kids are communicating with online because i'm talking about cc right now but i'm also talking about denali again let me re-emphasize denali is not a victim at all but she was communicating with this man in another state i'm assuming over the phone but also probably on a computer and who was monitoring this who was keeping an eye on her

i know she was an adult yeah but i'm just saying if she's i'm assuming she wasn't living on her own and again i'm not trying to take anything away from denalia and her culpability i'm just trying to find something that we can all look at and say you can have a little bit more you know involvement and it even goes more towards the the 14 or 15 year old that we were discussing who was at the you know at this residence do we even know what where they were at when this was occurring when Denali was having the conversations with Darren and the 14 year old 15 year was there we know she wasn't at her home yeah she had to go home by two so by two exactly but she probably told her parents like she's you know she's I don't know

if she told her parents she was hanging out with Denali. I doubt it because I'm not going to let my 14, 15 year old daughter hang out with, you know, somebody who's that much older than her. But yeah, I agree with you. I mean, even when my daughter was 14, 15, she'd bring friends over and I would have no problem saying, listen, I think this girl's bad news. Okay. I don't, I don't mind snap judgments when it comes to my children. You know, I'd say this girl, she seems really mean. She seems like a real caddy.

She talks shit about everybody. If she's talking shit about everybody, she's probably talking shit about you behind your back. This is what I would say, okay? I'm not going to tell you don't hang out with this person, but I am going to shine a light on the negative qualities that this person has so that hopefully you will see them, right? But yes, I think denali at this point i believe she

was obviously living with her mother still but she's over the age of 18 right yeah yeah so what are you gonna do with her on phone but i know and again you would know better than me because your daughter how old's your oldest daughter 19 she'll be 20 in october right so you see right there and i mean you guys have a very good relationship so it's it's different you know what i mean but again it's kind of what we talked about the beginning of the episode right there's no perfect answer there really isn't you know and we're talking about gun control and stuff that earlier but in some situations there's no perfect answer all you can do is do the best you can and pert for me, I would rather be a little bit more on the overbearing side and just try to be involved. So that way, God forbid something did happen. I could say, listen, I did

the best I could without pushing her away or pushing Peyton away. You know, I don't want to lose them as a, you know, that relationship, but I also want to protect them. And it's easy for them at their young age, not to know that they need to be protected in some situations, even when they don't realize it. So that's where I'm coming from on it. That's the little bit of a takeaway. But at the end of the day, these were people who were allowed into the, it was the Trojan horse. They were allowed into their homes. They, they trusted them. They, you know, the father clearly had a relationship where he could talk to, you know, Denali, you know, he trusted her to ask her where she was. she's just a she's a horrible human being and she took advantage of a young girl who just

wanted to have friends and that's that's the bottom line to it yeah yeah I'm sorry I went all Nancy Grace on you I feel like it's not a super positive thing okay because I know Nancy Grace she does this or she just rants and rants and she seems like there's no wiggle room and it's just like, you're a bad person. I know Nancy Grace seems like that and I try to avoid that because there's a Nancy Grace inside of me. She's always trying to come out. But I try to keep her inside. So I'm sorry, but once again, once you see these every day and you dive deep into these cases and these affidavits and this just disgusting behavior you start to just lose faith you start to lose faith in the world and the people in the world and it's sad but it also it makes me realize like I think at this point I can

tell the difference between somebody who's truly doing something because they're misguided and somebody who's doing something because they're just not a good person that's just my opinion you may disagree with me but i think at this point i i can tell and and there's just something screaming in me in every cell of my body that denali bremer along with every single other person involved in that case they're not good people because you could have approached a you know a teenager who who knew the difference between right and wrong, who didn't want to hurt anybody, and that person would have been like, nah, I'm out. And hopefully that kid would have told somebody, you know.

But you do have a personal responsibility, whether you're 15, whether you're 50, you have a personal responsibility when somebody else's life is at stake. And don't forget it. Yeah, well, thinking of the Hoffmans as they go through this process, because now they're going to be going to trial. And I'm also thinking about the families of the victims, the names we don't know of the young teenagers that were sexually assaulted.

As you mentioned, Darren and Denali are also facing child pornography charges as well. So there's, in addition to the murder charges, so I'm hoping that they get hammered for that as well. And I know that those two young juveniles who were the victims in those situations, they're still here, but they're going to, that's something that their family is going to have to deal with as well. So here's my question. Do you think that, that one of these, these like, especially victim, minor victim B, the 14 or 15 year old, do you think it's the same one who is

involved with what happened to do not what happened to cc so the first time i watched timothy because i was obvious i had watched timothy's video before and i was trying to piece when he said something quick about one of them pretending they were a victim yeah again i'm right where you are where i was like if this girl was being manipulated my experience would tell me that more than likely this this girl that they were referring to in this this this situation is also the girl that is involved with Cece's death absolutely I think it was a crew of people and it probably is the same person that he's referring to that's my guess you i i feel like you agree i i i kind of do and i just it just i'm i'm defeated

at this point like i i don't even know who to feel sorry for anymore and that's when you know it could be another juvenile it could be another juvenile that we haven't talked about yet but yes no keep in mind minor minor victim one was eight or nine years old. Eight or nine years old. Denali Bremer, eight or nine years old. Is she a good person? Nope. Nope. Nope. year old who was you know having a sexual relationship with with denali but also communicating directly with darren makes me think that that's probably the person he's referring to yes yeah it's a tough one this is this is a hard one it's uh i'm glad we covered it again i know you said you covered it before and and again i'm going to be following it to see what happens you know now i'm invested in it so we'll we'll be thinking of the family and thoughts are with them. And we'll be back next week, right?

Yeah, back next week. Thank you guys so much for being here. Don't forget to follow us on social media. Leave us a message on SpeakPipe. All you have to do is go to CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com and check out our website. We'll see you next week. Bye. Have a good night