Crime Weekly - S1 Ep23: Tragic Accident or Police Cover-Up?: Kendrick Johnson (Part 2)

Episode Date: May 14, 2021

It is a case that has stumped and enraged millions of people around the world. Since 17 year old Kendrick Johnson was found dead, in a rolled up gym mat, the question has remained; was this a tragic accident, or a well orchestrated and quickly hidden murder. Law enforcement has ruled Kendrick’s death an accident, his family have never wavered from their opinion that Kendrick was the victim of foul play. And now, almost a decade after the case was closed, authorities are reopening the case and examining possible new evidence.  Today, we will discuss the case, go over the evidence, old and new, and hopefully find ourselves one step closer to the answer. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

History's masterpieces wouldn't be the same without their most notable accents. Neither would the Kia Sportage without its multiple drive modes. The Kia Sorento without its expansive 12.3-inch panoramic display. Or the Kia Telluride without its three rows of spacious seating. The 2025 Kia SUVs. Kia. Movement that inspires. Call 800-333-4KIA for details. Always drive safely. Limited inventory available. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

And I'm Derek Levasseur. Today, we're diving into part two of the Kendrick Johnson case. Derek, how are you feeling tonight? How are you feeling after part one? How are you feeling going into part two? I'm good. I'm ready to get into it. I know we had a lot of engagement, a lot of comments about this case. It seems like everyone's really into it, wants to hear more. We want to hear more. And just so you guys know, so you're aware, if you haven't already listened to part one or watched it, go watch that or listen to it. And this is going to be part two, but there is going to be

a part three. So understand that tonight is not going to be the last time you hear about this case. Yes. One more part after this part three, it's going to tie everything up with a nice little bow. And then we definitely want to hear from you. What do you think? Was this a tragic accident or was it more nefarious? We're very interested to hear what you have to say. And you know what? You can also let us know at any point during any of these parts. It's okay to start off with a theory and change your mind as you hear more information. But I do want to know what you thought even going into this, from whatever you'd heard out in the media or from what you knew of the case. do want to know what you thought even going into this, from whatever you'd heard out in the media or from what you knew of the case. I want to know what your initial

thoughts were and if your initial thoughts changed as we went through the case, please let us know. Absolutely. And I know I did an IG live a few weeks ago and I said, someone said, hey, you should give away a book. I'm going to do that. Here's my book. Comment down in the comment section, comment the word undercover. You comment the word undercover, i'm going to do that here's my book comment down in the comment section uh comment the word undercover you comment the word undercover and i'm going to randomly pick someone i'll sign it and i'll send it to you so um i would like a book you didn't ever i don't have a book i will be seeing you at crime con and i will have a hardcover version for you is it going to be signed if you'd like it signed i'll put to my biggest fan fan, Stephanie Harlow. No, don't do that. Yes. Yes. That's what I'm doing.

That's what I'm doing. Okay. It'll be our little joke. It'll be our little joke. I'm going to take pictures of it. I'm going to post it online and be like, oh, love my fans, love their support. And it's going to, yeah. And I also want you to comment undercover pineapple. I was like, hey, what should I make the word for this when I say it in the thing? She's like, pineapple. Okay. And I don't know why he didn't go with that.

So, I mean, hybrid. No, that's what it is now. Undercover pineapple. Undercover pineapple. If you only put undercover, you will be disqualified from the list. So undercover pineapple. All right. Well, before we dive back into the case, I do want to go over the cast of characters

because we're going to talk about a lot of organizations, a lot of people in today's podcast. So this will give you kind of a little key of sorts so that it's easier to keep track and it probably won't help. It's still hard. It's still hard for me to keep track of the people in here sometimes, but we'll do our best. Well, we have Jackie and Kenneth Johnson, who we mentioned in part one. Those are Kendrick's parents. And then we also we hear a little bit from Eddie Tooley and Eddie Tooley is Kendrick's grandfather. There's also two lawyers that we're

going to talk about, C.B. King. And this seems to be the Johnson's family's main attorney. And we also have Benjamin Crump, and Benjamin Crump's a well-known civil rights attorney. You probably know him best as the head of the legal team for the family of George Floyd. That's the most relevant thing I can think of, but he's done a lot of other stuff and he's worked with a lot of other people. He's very well-known. And it seems like Benjamin Crump sort of just helped the Johnson family out when he needed them. He was kind of there at press conferences and protests and things. And he was a big part of this case early on.

But I do believe he stopped working with them in 2015. But we'll get into that. We also have Reverend Floyd Rose, and he was part of the Valdosta Southern Christian Leadership Conference, known from now on in this podcast as the SCLC, because that is much easier to say. And we have Lee Tuchton, and Lee Tuchton was the interim security for the local chapter of the NAACP. And we're not going to talk too much about Lee and Reverend Rose today, but they will become more prevalent in the final part. So let's go back to the day after Kendrick was found in the rolled up gym Matt at his high school. And this is when the Johnson family actually enlisted Reverend Floyd Rose from the SCLC

and asked if he could conduct an independent investigation. And he obviously agreed. And then the Valdosta chapter of the NAACP also got involved. And that's when Lee touched in, who was not only the interim secretary at that time, but also a member of the NAACP legal redress team, she was chosen to lead their investigation into KJ's death. So you've got the SCLC and the NAACP local chapters, both kind of working their independent sort of investigations into what happened to KJ, but also working together because these two organizations do

work closely together often. Yeah. So a lot of different entities now looking at this case, a lot of eyes on this case, which is going to be important because if they come to similar conclusions, there may be something there and then you may have some contradicting statements as well. So it's going to be good for you guys as you're watching, as you're listening, to kind of keep all these different organizations in mind, because some of them have different opinions on certain areas of this case. And you're going to have to use your own judgment to see and hear what they're saying and what you choose to believe. Yes. And in the aftermath of what happened to KJ, the Johnson family did make a lot of allegations. Many of these allegations we are going to cover in the

final part, but we're going to talk about a couple of them today. And if there's any place where they've been debunked or where there's been sort of a controversy around the allegation, we're going to address it. We're just trying to put everything out there so that you guys can make your own decision. But some of the first allegations, they started coming out almost immediately. So there's multiple articles that I read that claimed the Johnson family were not allowed to see or identify KJ's body. And there was also a lawsuit that the Johnson family filed. And in it, the lawyer, their lawyer said that they had asked to see his body and they weren't allowed to. But it does seem as if a request that was made by Kenneth Johnson, KJ's father, to see his son and personally identify him was granted on Sunday, January 13th.

So that's just two days after KJ was found dead in the old gym at his high school. And this was when the body was still at the Valdosta Lounge Crime Lab on Ashley Street. So it's still local. It hasn't gone to the GBI yet. But the next day, it's going to be transferred to the GBI. So January 13th was a Sunday. KJ's body was scheduled to be taken to the GBI for autopsy the following day. Kenneth said that his handsome son looked nothing like himself,

and he also made somewhat of a shocking claim. Kenneth was shown the body by James Thornton, and James Thornton is the same man who had taken the pictures and the videos at the crime scene and who had stored the evidence from the crime scene in his locked vehicle. So he kind of brought him in and, you know, showed him around and showed him KJ's body. In a later lawsuit filed by the family, the claim is made that Kenneth felt the temperature in the room where KJ was being stored had been much warmer than he had anticipated. So this gets kind of sketchy because that's definitely in the lawsuit paperwork, but there were other claims made by the family afterwards where they said the cooler that Kendrick was being of seeing this stuff or thinking that they're seeing this stuff was that they believe there was a conspiracy to sort of speed up decomposition of KJ's body so that any evidence that was on the body would be destroyed. Yeah. And again, it's an allegation,

so there's nowhere to substantiate that. I will say from my limited experience in the, you know, these types of rooms, cause again, I've, I've been present for a lot of autopsies, but you know, I'm usually not present where they're storing the bodies. Um, they're not independently controlled as far as I know. So it's all, it's all or nothing, either all of the, um, units that the bodies are stored in or on or they're not. And it's not a cooling. It's not an HVAC system where it's heating or cooled. It's a cooler. So, you know, my personal opinion is it's probably it probably wasn't the case. It probably wasn't turned off.

But again, I'm not disputing what he was saying because I wasn't there. But I don't know how they would do that without doing it to all the bodies at that time. And maybe they did. It just seems really, it seems like it would be something that would be noticed by others if it had taken place. And later, Lee Touchton, I hope I'm saying her name right. It's spelled that way, Touchton. But Lee Touchton, actually had she toured this facility and she did dispute this claim. And I'm also not sure that the coolers even have the ability to be made hotter, you know, because they're coolers. So I don't think that they can be heated up. They're not ovens and they're not really meant for that.

So I don't think that there would be an option to do that. I suppose there would be an option to to not have the coolers be cool. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. But there's actually no evidence that this was the case. But again, I understand where he's coming from. He believes that this is a conspiracy. If he's right, if he believes that they're all colluding together, it would make sense that you would want to have the body decompose faster because it would destroy any evidence that Kendrick was assaulted, right? It would be harder to find any injuries that would contradict the cause of death being asphyxia. Not only that, but I feel like if he had been attacked, the DNA from his attacker would be on his body and maybe having the decomposition sped up would

eliminate that, right? Yep. Throw off time of death as well. There's a lot of variables where if you were to believe what he's saying, it would make a lot of sense to do this. There would be a lot of reasons why you would want to do this. The question is, and again, I'm not even saying he's lying. His interpretation of the temperature might have been, oh, I expected it to be cooler because it was a refrigerator or a freezer and it was warmer than I thought. So he absolutely could be right where it's like, hey, it wasn't as cold as I expected it to be, but he's also not someone who's in the morgue on a regular basis. Well, there's also discrepancies between the official statements from law enforcement and a report from first responders, including two EMTs who examined KJ's body while he was still in the gym. So evidently and allegedly, the EMTs noticed that there is a bruise on the right side of KJ's jaw. And this bruise that the EMTs said

they saw on his jaw, this was not mentioned in the initial autopsy done by GBI. That was something that I did see as well. And again, I saw the photos. We spoke about the photos last episode. We don't recommend going and looking at them. But if you're curious and you think you have the stomach for it, go ahead. Most people listening here are adults. I think you can handle it. But his face was severely disfigured. And I can tell you that the bruising to me on the face, the changing in color that I saw was consistent with lividity. It's when the blood settles in certain areas of the body. If Kendrick's body was upside down at the time of his death and stayed in that position for an extended period

of time, you would expect to see lividity in the face. If you didn't, that would be more odd to me. So I can explain the bruising to the face, why it wasn't mentioned. It might not have been mentioned as a bruise, but it might have been mentioned as signs of lividity. Well, on this same day, January 13th, Sunday, Jackie and Kenneth, KJ's parents, they also met with Sheriff Chris Prine and some other members of law enforcement. According to the lawsuit document, Chris Prine, the sheriff, told the Johnsons that KJ had entered the mat feet first. And when he bent over to pick up his shoe, he got stuck and couldn't get out. Two days after this, the family received a call from an employee at the sheriff's office, and this employee told Johnson's that they must have misunderstood and that Sheriff Chris Prine had meant to say KJ had entered the gym mat head first, not feet first.

And I think that this is fair to say that it could have been a miscommunication or a misunderstanding because there's absolutely no way that Kendra could have gone in their feet first and bent over to pick up his shoe. There was not even enough space for him to go in to begin with. His shoulders were much broader than the mat to begin with, you know, a couple of inches. And I don't think that there's anybody who would have thought that that was possible. So I hope that the sheriff didn't say that. Once again, him saying that is just, it's coming from the Johnsons. They say that this is what he said. So this is one of those, he said, she said situations. You don't really know who's telling

the truth. You'd have to have been there. Yeah. but i think you make a good point it's like is it going to change the the the facts of the case too no it's really not i mean and he i think he i think he misspoke i definitely think he misspoke i get what you're saying as far as well if he went in feet first it's a lot different than if he went in head first but i think from all the photos and everyone there i i would i would venture to say it was probably a miscommunication. Yeah. But if you're a family who thinks that your son's death is being covered up by these people, then you might look at that and say, oh, you lied or you weren't honest about how his body was found. And there's been a lot of other things too. This is just one of many things. We said this last

episode, if it were just this conversation, probably wouldn't be covering the case right now, right? Because it would probably be a lot clearer of what happened, but it's all these things that add up to why there's a lot of people, you know, not to get off subject, we covered, this is a set part two, social media, you know, there's some people listening to us right now saying, oh yeah, this was definitely an accident. We, I knew this years ago. There was a lot of people on our social media go, of course, this wasn't an accident. This was a murder. So don't discredit any side of it yet because there are people on both sides of the aisle. This isn't just limited to Kendrick's family by any means. So there's a lot of people out there that believe there's something more to this story. And that's why Stephanie and I felt the need to cover it.

It's not even that there's a lot of people who feel like there's something more to this story. And that's why Stephanie and I felt the need to cover it. It's not even that there's a lot of people who feel like there's something more to the story. It's hard to not feel like there is something more to the story, even though your logical brain is like, yeah, this definitely seems like it was an accident, but all the inconsistencies and the changing stories and we're gonna get into it,

things going missing, stuff like that. And it does make you think, and I'm not even the parent of KJ, it does make you think like something happened here. Now, it may not have been a murder being covered up, but I think we can definitely say that there was a little bit of shoddy police work happening here. And that's on top of all the foundational mistrust that existed prior to this incident, just because of societal issues and things like that in that specific community, that there's an underlying... Hey, I said underlying right that time. Everyone out there,

shout out. I said underlining right. But to your point, you can clearly see where this is coming from and justifiably so. So the next day, Monday, January 14th, KJ's body was transferred from the Valdosta Regional Crime Lab to the GBI's Crime Lab. And that's located in Macon, Georgia. Now, the body was transported by a man named Steve Owens, who owned a company called Owens Transport Services. And this is the same person who moved KJ's body from the high school to the Valdosta Regional Crime Lab. And then he's also going to be the person that takes him from the crime lab to the GBI's crime lab in Macon. The autopsy was done the same day, and it was determined that there had been no foul play and there was no visible injuries on the body that could have caused KJ's death. Positional asphyxia was given as the cause of

death, and there were some marks found on the body that were noted in the autopsy report, mainly two tiny abrasions on KJ's right wrist and left forefinger, both no bigger than an eighth of an inch. However, the bruising that the EMTs had noted on KJ's jaw was not mentioned in the report. It was believed that asphyxiation had happened very quickly due to KJ's abdominal organs compressing his diaphragm and the tightness of the mat constricting his chest and or impeding his ability to breathe through his mouth. The blood that had been found at the bottom of the mat, it was identified as post-mortem purge. And this would be from all the blood that had gathered in his head as he hung upside down for as long as he did. So obviously when KJ's parents saw his body that Sunday before he had the autopsy, they thought he looked horrible.

You know, they thought it looked as if he had been beaten. His face was bloated. It looks bruised because of the blue sort of like mottled discoloration that happens. It was misshapen. It was swollen. And as I said, and you know, both Derek and I have said, he really did. He looked, it was gruesome. Some of the worst autopsy photos I've ever seen, some of the worst post-mortem photos I've ever seen. And they're just horrifying. So I can certainly understand, right, as a parent, you're seeing your child like this. You've never seen your child look like this before. He doesn't look anything like himself. It looks like he's been through some sort of violent ordeal. And I think that

in anybody, it would cause a great deal of not only trauma, but possibly suspicion. Yeah. And to your point, again, if you're KJ's family and you're not used to seeing dead bodies, especially your own child, you don't understand what happens to a body once you expire. It happens very quickly. And depending on your position, there is that bloating and the bruising and the discoloring. And it's not pleasant. I'm not going to lie to you guys. It's not pleasant. I've seen a lot of dead bodies over the years, some of them due to homicide, some of them due to natural causes. And in many cases, it's not as peaceful as you would hope it would be. And there's a lot of that purging and things like that and bodily fluids and noises and things that happen after

you're dead that are not pleasant. So I've seen, again, we've seen the photos. They're very disturbing. Even for us who see the autopsy photos all the time, it's very disturbing, especially in the short amount of time that had transpired between him going missing and him being located and then them seeing his body. I'm sure they did not expect to see that. So I can imagine as the parents seeing your son in that position, I really feel for him because that must have been very difficult. And I mean, the average person you would hope isn't seeing dead bodies at all, right? Before I went into true crime, the only dead body I'd ever seen was at a funeral and it's been dressed and it's got makeup on it and the eyes are closed.

So when I started doing true crime, and it's not even what you find online, but I would contact the family members and ask for case files and things like that. And they would send me the postmortem pictures. And you are not prepared for that. To me, the most upsetting and startling thing is the eyes, right? Because when you see someone at a funeral, their eyes are closed. The most upsetting thing to me about seeing a dead body is their eyes. They lose pigment.

They're flat. There's no life in them, you know, and that's so startling. So I hope that the average person isn't out there like, oh, I've seen 15 dead bodies in my time and this dead body looks different than other dead bodies I've seen. So there's something going on. I hope that most people are not seeing these sorts of pictures and don't have these images in their head because I know I do and they don't leave you. But I do understand not having that kind of experience and not only that, but already feeling like this is a crazy thing to happen, right? Like you're telling me he went into a gym mat and died and nobody heard him

and he couldn't get out and nobody could save him. That's crazy already. And now I see him and he looks like, you know, he's been beat up. He looks like he's been violently assaulted. And you're trying to tell me that everything's normal and this is a complete like accident. So and they wouldn't be good parents if they weren't feeling that way. They wouldn't be good parents if they weren't fighting for their child and trying to get to the truth. Yeah. And you hit on the mats again,

and it was something I wanted to bring up real quick because we had talked about, and again, this is from our amazing listeners and viewers, everyone who's following along with us. We want to make sure we always get it right. We had talked about the idea of conducting an experiment to see if you would be able to hear KJ if he was in that mat and calling for help. And I apologize for not knowing, but apparently there was already another podcast or a YouTube channel that discussed that they did in fact do that. They actually had a child go into the mat. It might even have been a football player. And the results were that you could barely hear the boy. You could barely hear him. They had him inside the thing. They bounced

the ball. They did the whole thing that we had suggested they do. And it was evident very quickly that even if KJ were screaming at the top of his lungs inside that mat, being in that position with those mats around him, even in a room that even if the gym was completely quiet, you wouldn't have been able to hear him that well. That's crazy. I mean, it's kind of what I expected, but. So it does answer some of our questions, right? As far as like kids are bouncing balls and nobody heard this guy screaming for his life. No, the answer is no, you would, they wouldn't have heard him because of these crazy set of circumstances that were just heavily not in Kendrick's favor.

You know, like all these things had to take place for it to create this situation. If in fact, this is what happened. But if it was in fact a tragic accident and he fell in there and he was unable to pull himself out, no, people in that gym more than likely would not have hurt him at all. Not to mention that another class was starting. So they weren't in the gym for a very long time either. And like you said, there was probably a part of KJ, if this was an accident, who was like, I can get myself out of this.

I'm not trying to call for help and be the butt of a joke for the rest of the year. He had no idea. But thank you to everybody who I saw a couple comments. We do read the comments and you guys were quick to let me know about that and let Stephanie know. So just wanted to acknowledge that that test has been done and those were the results. Yeah. Crime Weekly is really a hype mind, right? So we're going to research the case, but we have a week usually to research the case. When we do multi-parties, we obviously have longer, but it's very impossible to know everything. So it's so helpful that you guys reach out to us and you're like, actually, this experiment was done. It's a hive mind. We're all working at this

together. We all want to find the truth and find the answers together. And we really appreciate that about you guys. So when the autopsy was done, KJ's body was transferred again, and again this time by Steve Owens, who's been the only one pretty much to be transferring his body. And he brought it to Harrington's funeral home so that KJ's body could be prepared for burial. Now apparently the owner, Antonio Harrington, he'd offered to provide his services to the Johnson family free of charge. But it was said in some of these court documents that after he saw KJ's body, he also sort of provided some advice to the Johnson family. And he said, you know, I think that there's something going on here and maybe you should have an independent autopsy done. And this part is a little confusing to me because the timeline doesn't really match up. At this

point, the results from the first autopsy hadn't even come back yet, you know, because it's basically he's bringing him to the funeral home right after the autopsy. So these results aren't even in yet. Nobody really knows them yet. And he's already kind of having a conversation about having a second one done. But once again, it could have just been a conversation. Like if the results from the first autopsy come back and they're not what you expect, I suggest you get a second opinion kind of thing. Now, this is something I do find to be a little suspicious. So KJ's clothes were not delivered to the funeral home with his body. And Antonio Harrington told the Johnsons that he'd never received any clothes. So the family obviously

contacted the CBI crime lab in Macon and they were like, where's Kendrick's clothes? And they were told by the CBI crime lab that all of KJ's personal effects, including his clothes, had been placed in the body bag with him. And there's like an inventory report. OK, so there's an actual inventory report that shows what's with KJ's body. And Steve Owens, the transport guy, he signed off on this this inventory report. And yet no clothes arrived with KJ when he got to Harrington's funeral home. He was accompanied only by a broken pair of

headphones, the same one that was found wrapped around his finger when he was taken out of the mat. Now, these clothes have never been located. Nobody knows where they went, what happened to them. But KJ's parents believe they were destroyed to cover up his murder. Once again, to get rid of any evidence there might be on these clothes. That would point to his attacker. Or attackers. This was something when I read it. Even more so than like the.

The belief that the cooler was not. As cool as it should be. This is something that is. It's fact or it's fiction. Were the clothes in there or were they not. And I don't think they would make this up. Clearly the clothes weren't in there. So you might be saying to yourself, well, Derek, explain that one, right? If it's not a coverup, if it's not a murder, why aren't the clothes in

there? It's a mistake and it's not a good one. And it's a bad one to make, especially in a case like this, where there's so much skepticism around the case itself anyways. There's a chain of custody. And I'm sure a lot of you guys that are true crime buffs have heard that phrase before. And in this particular case, when you have evidence or you have a body, everything is inventoried, as Stephanie said. And those clothes at some point should have been in there. And if they were, and this wasn't some conspiracy, then someone removed those clothes. Some agent of the state, some investigator removed the clothes and never documented that they removed the clothes and why

they did it. So therefore, you're left with this, where we are now. And we're left with a lot of questions. And rightfully so. So again, if you're in the school that believes this was a cover-up, the explanation that Stephanie just gave makes a lot of sense. It really does. That would be a reason to destroy the clothes. But just keep in mind, there is a possibility that this is just a screw-up and that it wasn't documented properly. That is also a possibility. But where do they go? And don't you think at some point somebody from the GBI would have come forward and been like, no, this isn't a coverup. The clothes were really dirty. So we got rid of them to make it seem less like a coverup. Don't worry, it's not a coverup. I did this and nobody has and nobody knows where the clothes are. And this is one of the things, there's just about three or four things in this case that really hold me back from going and being like, I think it was an accident. Three or four things, but that's enough to really give me a great long pause. Yeah. And there's a possibility that this was explained to the family. We don't know if it was. And if it was, they didn't relay that to the public. We don't know if it was. And if it was,

they didn't relay that to the public. I don't know if the police would come out and say publicly, hey, heads up guys, this is where the clothes were. But let's just take it for what we know, which is the police have never informed the family where his clothes are or what happened to them. If that's true, then that's a big problem. That's a big problem. But I wish we were a fly on the wall or had access to everything because it's also a possibility that one of the attorneys that work for Kendrick's family or Kendrick's family themselves were informed what happened to the clothes. They might've said to them, hey, we accidentally destroyed the clothes. They were taken in, they were incinerated because we felt like they were

no longer valuable. We're sorry. You know, but if that, if that did happen, we don't know that. So we're left with what we have and what we have doesn't look good. History's masterpieces wouldn't be the same without their most notable accents. Neither would the Kia Sportage without its multiple drive modes. The Kia Sorento without its expansive 12.3-inch panoramic display. Or the Kia Telluride without its three rows of spacious seating. The 2025 Kia SUVs. Kia. Movement that inspires.

Call 800-333-4KIA for details. Always drive safely. Limited inventory available. So as soon as the autopsy had been completed, obviously KJ's parents want to see it. You know, I don't blame them, but apparently every time they asked, they were told that they could not have access to it yet, which prompted a protest at the Lowndes County Courthouse. And during this protest, the family members and supporters, they locked hands and they sort of formed like a human chain and they were blocking people from entering or exiting the courthouse. I believe there was like a side entrance and a front entrance because both Jackie and Kenneth Johnson were arrested during this protest, but they were with separate groups.

So I think Jackie was at like the side door and Kenneth was at the front door. But they were basically just blocking people from coming in or out. And the reason of this protest was, you know, we want answers. But Kendrick's parents, Kenneth and Jackie, they were both arrested as well as five other people. What do you think about that? Because I can't figure it out. It's just not a lot of information. What were they doing that was wrong? I obviously understand. I think they gave them an obstruction of justice card or charge, not card. There's no trading cards for federal charges, okay? But I think they said they were

obstructing justice because they weren't letting court cases proceed and things like that. But this is a peaceful protest. I don't like people getting arrested during peaceful protests. Yeah. No, I agree. Peaceful protest is your first amendment, right? And they should be allowed to do so. And it's in a government building, but it is a public government building. Without knowing the specifics, it's tough to disagree with you that, listen, I don't understand why they were arrested. Now, if I learned that they were literally and physically impeding the ability for the courts to conduct their business, they were stopping people from leaving or entering.

If that's the case, then that is a justifiable arrest. I don't love it, but if they're stopping the government agency from the courts from doing their jobs, then yes, by the way the law is written, that would be covered. And I'll come right out and say it. I agree with it. You guys can sit there and you have a first amendment right. Say what you want to say about the courts. Say what you want to say about the investigators, but do it in a manner where people can hear you, but you're not physically impeding the ability for them to carry out their functions because that at that point does become a criminal act. It does become an offense. It's a misdemeanor. Investigators treated the officers that arrested them, understood where they were coming from and treated them with that respect where it's like, hey, listen, we understand you lost your son, but if you're refusing to move, if you're refusing to allow them to conduct their business, you're leaving us no other choice.

Again, I wasn't there, but yes, that would be what would occur. Yeah, it makes me feel super uncomfortable. I don't like it. Well, what do you do? What do you do in that case? That's I'm not being rhetorical. What do you do? This sounds, this sounds really dumb. And I know like a lot of people think I live in this perfect utopian world, but I probably would have just canceled all the cases that were happening that day. Like kind of rescheduled everyone and been like, you know, just let these people, they lost a kid. You know, they think something's going on,

whether something's going on or not. They genuinely seem to believe that something's going on. They want answers. So let's reschedule all these cases, you know, book them for another day. It's going to be inconvenient, but at the same time, you know, let them do what they have to do today, I guess. I hear you. And you know what? In theory, if that worked where it was just one day and they canceled it for that one day and once they had their day, they moved on or they went to another means of protesting, I don't disagree with you actually. The problem is precedent. You allow that to happen where they cancel court because of it. Who's to say they

won't come back the next day or the day after that, or the next time it happens. If they had, every time there was a protest, they allowed them to control when court was in session, we would never have court. And so I can tell you for me, there were times where you have to do things because the way the law is written, that you don't necessarily morally love, but it is your job and it is what the law is designed to do. And so you have to enforce the laws the way they're written. So in a perfect world, a utopian world, like you said, you said it great. I agree with you. But the reality of the situation is if you allow that to happen, then it's going to happen consistently. And that's going to be an even bigger problem. Because now if you allow that to happen, then it's going to happen consistently. And that's

going to be an even bigger problem. Because now if you let one family do it and not another, you're walking into a bad situation optically. I just feel like if both sides, and there shouldn't be sides, but I feel like if both sides want the same outcome, as long as both sides are being genuine about wanting the same outcome, they should talk and work it out. You mean the court? Yeah, the law and then the protesters. Yeah, we both want the same outcome. We both want justice. We want you to be able to practice your rights that are written in the Constitution. So we're going to make sure that today you can do whatever you want. We're going to cancel everything for

you, but we got to make sure that today you can do whatever you want we're going to cancel everything for you but we got to make sure that like obviously things can proceed because there's other people involved and they need their court cases to go through and they need also their justice so you know can we work together here like i don't know if that happened you know it's very weird they don't really go into specifics about and that's that's the hair that's the situation we're in right we don't know the exact specifics. I would like to believe, guys, I'm not saying this is what happened. If they gave them an option to step back and protest and scream and yell while not impeding the flow of traffic in and out of the court, and if they gave them that option and they said, hey, say what you got to say, yell, signs, do your whole thing.

Just don't stop lawyers and everyone from coming in and out or people who have cases from, we're going to let you stay. If they said, no, we're not doing that. Well, then there's no compromise, right? It's their way or no way. And that's where they have to say, okay, well, if you're not willing to express your first amendment right, but in a way that it's not obstructing others, you're leaving us no choice. So I totally hear you. If that didn't happen and it was just like, nope, you're under arrest. I agree.

They should have given that opportunity first, that option. But again, we weren't there. We don't know. It could be. We don't know what happened. Yeah. And I feel like at this point, you're not going to get a straight story from anybody because everybody has their narrative and everybody has their side you know it's a tale as old as time you're

not gonna say something or admit to something yeah you're not gonna admit to something that makes you look wrong on the other side and look right of course of course well so that's on both sides that's on both sides we're saying absolutely because it's human it's human nature right yeah it's human nature you wanna it's it's a confirmation bias you don't wanna you don't wanna be wrong but to summarize summarize shitty situation really because it's a it's a lose-lose it's a lose-lose yeah so i yeah tough so jackie and kenneth they both get arrested they They go to jail. And Reverend Lloyd Rose from the SCLC, he actually put up his own home as collateral for Jackie's bond to get her out. So you can see at this point, this is really the beginning.

He's 100% fully behind the Johnson family. But this isn't necessarily where he would end up. During this protest, KJ's parents announced, quote, we don't think he was murdered. We know that he was murdered, end quote. And this is a I think it's a problematic statement simply because they didn't know that they didn't I mean they could feel it and they could know it like in their hearts but to make a public statement like that is just going to sort of um cause problems because then obviously people are going to say okay you know it where's your evidence and this did happen in court at a later date where they were asked you know how do you know this give us the evidence and um they didn't they didn't really have that evidence they They had this gut feeling, this gut instinct, which I completely respect, but they didn't have any facts or evidence to back that up. And so obviously this is, it's causing a great unrest. It's causing a lot of people, okay, the parents know he was murdered.

So they're obviously right. They know their kid better than anybody. Let's get behind this. And this is when the media gets on board. And a lot of misinformation was put out there. And I won't even say misinformation all the time, but half information. Right. So they would say, this looks suspicious. This looks sketchy. But then they wouldn't follow it up with, but this is the reason or the alleged reason of why it looks sketchy. And I don't like that only because even if the reason's not legitimate, like let me be the decider of whether or not I believe it's legitimate or not. So you should give me the whole story. And if I think that the excuse or the justification given is bullshit, then I'll say, oh, I think that's bullshit. But if I think that there's some validity to it, then I can kind of go down that path myself. But this is not really what happened in the media. I'll especially highlight CNN because they did take a big part in Kendrick's

case, which I appreciate because because of CNN, KJ's case really did get pushed out there quite a bit. And it became really mainstream. And a lot of people came to know about it because of the work CNN did. But at the same time, it did kind of lead to the divisiveness where there was kind of one side being told and not everything else. And I think it left it to a lot of local media outlets to sort of clear that up. But once again, more people are watching CNN than are reading the Valdosta Times, right? Yeah, and we're not coming for CNN or anything. In fact, if you watch- Oh, I'll come for CNN all the time.

Well, I'm just saying we're not like- I come for any mainstream media news outlet because they're all the same. CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, they're all the same cnn fox news abc nbc that they're equal opportunity abusers yeah they all have an agenda and they all want clicks and they all want views and putting forward a fair and balanced story i think sometimes isn't what gets you that it's the no it's deliciousness right yep but i what i was saying is we're not like we're not in we're not coming just after cnn in fact we used if you saw in our last video we used a lot of screenshots from cnn and and some of the stuff they put out

there because we thought it was great in our in our youtube video so again we're just we're talking we're going to call it how we see it yeah nobody covered it more thoroughly than cnn but when i say thoroughly i don't mean they mean they're telling everything that's out there to be told. But that's normal, I think. Yeah. No, I think it's normal. I think it's the nature of the business, right? It's like, what's going to be clickable? What's going to get the most views? They're probably tracking on certain headlines and what gets the most engagement. And then they write it. It's a business, right? They're in it for profit. So, you know, and I love how you said it's for all of them because it is. It's for all of them. For all of them. And I won't even say that it's malicious even sometimes because I've done this

with cases where I get really invested in the victim and I will find myself as I'm going through being like, oh, that doesn't make the victim look super good. Like, I don't really want to put that in. And I have to like struggle with myself sometimes to include it in my video because I didn't even realize that I had a narrative I was pushing, but it's human, right? So they got invested. KJ's case was not hard to get invested in. He was a nice kid. He was a sweet kid. He was talented. He had a lot, a lot of potential. He had a family that loved him.

And it's hard not to get invested in that. So I think a lot of people at CNN really did get invested the way that I have myself gotten invested in cases. And you develop blinders sometimes. But the trick is to realizing when you've developed those blinders. And I don't think that they do all the time. And we've only scratched the surface and there's already a few different things that really make you raise an eyebrow as far as how this case. So imagine they're hearing and seeing this too, and that probably influenced their decision to

cover it the way they did. So the reason for the protest, it was kind of explained to ABC Channel 7 by a lawyer from Atlanta named Kwame Thompson. So Kwame Thompson was not the Thompson's lawyer, but because he was familiar with the law, I think that CNN would bring him on sometimes to, you know, as a, what do they call them, like experts, you know, law experts to discuss. Yeah, legal expert. Yeah, certain analysts, legal analyst. Perfect. And Kwame said that the family of KJ should have answers by now. He said that they were relying on public officials to work on their behalf and that KJ's death should have been investigated as a homicide from day one. But the sheriff had already announced very shortly after,

you know, everything happened like very shortly after KJ was found. I believe it was the 11th that Sheriff Chris Prine basically said, you know, this was an accident. And I get that. And you and I have had arguments about this before where I feel like as the family member, you should have more access to these cases. But you always tell me like, no, that's not it's not going to work. And we just talked to Kelsey German. They don't even. And by the way, you're breaking this because I saw where your head was going. I mean, you could say it right now if you want. But yeah, we're covering we're covering Delphi and we've been talking to Kelsey German. And this is a thing that's always bugged me because I

feel like if this was my family member, I would want to know everything that was going on. So I could almost like checks and balances them. Like if they were missing something or they were forgetting something, I could fill that in for them. But Kelsey even said, you know, there's so much that she just doesn't know about the investigation. So that can be incredibly frustrating for a family member. I know my personality, who I am. That would drive me crazy. I would be calling them 25 times a day. They would hate me. So I completely get that they want all this information right away. And you are trusting these law enforcement officials to do right by you and your son. And there's already

this sense of distrust for law enforcement that's embedded into a lot of these people from that area. So you're not starting off on a clean slate to begin with. And so obviously you do want to know and be updated. And that's just not what happens in these cases. And it would drive me absolutely crazy. But apparently, according to Kwame Thompson, Sheriff Chris Pine had backpedaled after this public announcement saying it was an accident, and he claimed that

they were now investigating the death as a homicide. Now, I cannot find any evidence that Chris Pine said this publicly, at least. He could have said it to the family. He could have said it to the lawyers. I can't see anywhere that he did say that. But if you guys have found it or if you can track it down for me, please let me know. But this is what Kwame Thompson is saying. KJ's family really wanted to know what the results of the autopsy were. They hadn't been able to get the answers they wanted, so they were protesting to make their voices heard and hopefully get these results. And these protests and rallies, they would continue on for months, I think 10 months regularly. And something that could often be seen at these protests and these rallies

was the picture, the picture of KJ. So they put this picture on t-shirts and posters and it's really bad. So I feel like a lot of people have seen some of these gruesome pictures already because this picture is infamous at this point, probably one of the most infamous post-mortem pictures. Let's just call it what it is too. We're telling people not to go look at it and 90% of you guys stopped the video or paused the podcast and you went and looked at it. And 90% of you guys stopped the video or paused the podcast and you went and looked at it. But we still put it out there as a disclaimer. But we know the majority of you people out there have probably already seen the photo, whether it was because you're following along with us or for the reasons that Stephanie's laying out right now.

So some people will say that the Johnson family purposely misled everyone into thinking that this picture was taken when KJ was found in the gym. I don't know whether that's true or not, whether they purposely misled people. But that was the general consensus, that this was the picture of KJ after he'd been found in the gym. But in fact, that actually wasn't true. And it only came out later in 2015 in court that the picture had actually been taken by the Johnson family at the funeral home. And this was after the autopsy had been completed. And obviously, autopsies aren't kind to a human body. It's bad. You's bad. You're getting cut open. You're just it's bad. You're getting dissected essentially. So in the autopsy, they're going to peel back

the skin on the face so that they can examine the underlying muscles. So this was a picture taken after the skin on his face had been pulled back. And obviously it's just horrific. But it was the general consensus that this picture was taken after he was found. So obviously you can understand that people were like, holy shit, this is what he looked like when he's found. This is horrible. There's no way this kid didn't get like physically assaulted, violently beat. Right?

Yeah. I mean, it's you would have to assume that the photo being, you know, printed on T-shirts was approved by the family. Yes, it was. I don't think anybody would do that without their consent. No, it was, yeah. And what their intention was, we'll never know. It's another one of those things where we'll never know. And I'm sure if we had the chance to ask them, they would say that wasn't

the intent. And maybe they're telling the truth. But you could definitely see how, if you're a layman person who's not up to date on the case, like the family, and you see this photo, your assumption is going to be, even if it's not inferred, your assumption is going to be that they're showing you a photo of the victim immediately after the, the incident, not, uh, you know, after the, you know, cause it's, there's no disclaimer at the bottom of the t-shirt saying that. Um, so I know that's what I would assume. And it is a really bad photo and it doesn't look good. And it does look like he was assaulted

viciously. And the reality, as you just laid out, is in a way he was assaulted by the pathologist who's conducting that autopsy. And as you said, it's very aggressive. Again, it's a lot to be in that room. And they kind of have to manipulate the body. I'm trying to be cautious how I say this, but they're aggressive. They're aggressive to say the least. And it can cause some further damage to the skin as they're doing that. Yeah. So that was actually a rough little portion here because I'm seeing this picture in my head and it's disturbing. So let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. So on May 1st, 2013, the Johnson family was granted permission by a judge to exhume KJ's body so they could have a second autopsy done. And the following day, KJ's death was officially ruled an accident. So this

is May 2nd that they come out publicly and say, we believe due to the autopsy that this was an accident. And an hour after the announcement came, friends, family, and activists gathered outside of Lowndes High School to protest. So let's actually talk about the second autopsy. It was conducted by a man named Dr. William Anderson. This is apparently a well-known forensic pathologist located out of Florida. He used to work for, I think, the Ocala coroner's office, and he was actually dismissed. There's a little controversy there, but we're going to talk about that more in depth in the

third video. KJ's body was exhumed on June 15th, and when William Anderson completed his autopsy, he revealed some shocking details. First, he claimed that when he opened KJ up, he had discovered that the teenager's body and skull had been stuffed with newspaper and there were no internal organs to be found anywhere. Now, this obviously prompted the family to speak out about this odd and unexpected discovery publicly and express outrage at the GBI and Harrington's funeral home. So once again, KJ's organs have never been located. And there's a lot of confusion about what actually happened to them. And the confusion comes from the fact that nobody seems to have the same story. Nobody seems to be on the same page with this at all. So Sherry Lang, she's a spokesperson for the GBI,

she claimed that the organs had been removed during autopsy like normal. You know, they got to take the organs out, they take samples from them, they take slides from them, they examine them. And then what normally would happen is they'd be put into a bag and then returned to the body cavity. And Sherry Lang said, you know, there's no reason why this wouldn't have happened. This is what happened in KJ's case. She said, quote, when the body left the GBI, it had the organs with it, end quote. Once again, I find this to be a problematic statement because I can guarantee you Sherry Lang was not there when the autopsy was done. So to make such a very, you know, I'm so sure of myself statement, just like the statement from the Johnson family, like, we don't think he was murdered. We know he

was murdered. These sorts of statements, these black and white statements, they can be very problematic because not only are they, you know, really just not possible to be even said unless you were present every moment, it causes a little bit of, I guess it makes it easy for you to be proven wrong, right? Yeah. I mean, you would think Sherry Lang spoke to the original pathologist and confirmed, hey, did you in fact do this before coming out and making this statement? That's an assumption on my part. But yeah, she's making a definitive remark and she wasn't in the room when it happened. So she doesn't know for certain they were in there. She's going off the word of others.

And again, this is what happens. Telephone game, guys. You know what I mean? Story slowly gets changed as it goes through different people. And what really happened? Were the organs put back in the body or was there a misstep and they were thrown out? They were disposed of thinking they were no longer, you know, what really happened? And then the other part of this is, was it malicious, right? If we're

going back to the, the idea that this was a murder, again, this just builds on that narrative. You have the clothes going miraculously disappearing and now you have his organs are gone, right? Yeah. I mean, listen, I mean, can anybody listen, whether you're a former law enforcement, whether you're completely convinced already, no matter what we say, that this was an accident, if you're convinced of that, you can't sit there reasonably as you're watching this right now or listening to this and say, oh, no, that seems totally normal to me. Especially if you put yourself in Kendrick's parents' shoes. Right, right.

But even just as you and I sit here, right? Like, I mean, we have our preconceived notions about things and this is not good. This does not look good. It doesn't sound good. And I think, again, the family is totally justified in saying, hey, listen, we want answers. Where's our son's organs? Oh, they were in the body. And then you're going to say something next coming up that is contradictory to that. So what are they to do? What are they to do when the people that they're relying on? Right, right. Exactly. Well, an attorney for Harrington's funeral home claimed that when KJ's body arrived there, no organs had been with it and that it was also standard procedure to fill empty space in body cavities with materials such as sawdust or cotton. But Kendrick's body wasn't filled with sawdust or cotton. It was filled with old newspapers, which is just gross. I find it to be really distasteful at the very least. Really distasteful. Yeah. And so here we go. That was what I was alluding to. You have the GBI spokesperson

saying one thing, and you have the next entity that would have received the body immediately after GBI saying, hey, listen, there were no organs in there. So one of the two are wrong. And well, we have another, we have a third person who chimes in on this, right? Lounds County Coroner Bill Watson had a completely different version of events. He claimed that KJ's organs had been too badly decomposed to be preserved and they'd been disposed of before the body was sent to the funeral home. But the way he says it, it's not like I did this. He said it would have been during

the autopsy that I disposed of them. So it's like he can't even remember doing it, but he assumes like, yes, if the organs were too badly decomposed, I wouldn't have saved them, which I don't even think makes sense because if the body's getting buried, what's it to you what the organs are like? And especially with a sensitive case like this, maybe just keep everything together so that you can be above reproach and just send the organs with the body so that you don't add fuel to the fire, which is exactly what happened. Well, make no mistake about it. This is a mistake, right? There's a screw up here somewhere along the line. And if I'm a betting man, I believe the Harrington Funeral Home that the organs were never in the body when KJ arrived.

And if you're going with the theory that this case was an accident and that the GBI and everyone were acting in good faith, again, it's still a screw up, right? Because it wasn't clearly documented what happened. And you had a spokesperson come out and say, oh, no, nope, nope. Organs were with the body. And then you have them backpedaling where the pathologist is now saying, no, based on the decomposition, we would have thrown him out. Now, maybe that is what happened. Maybe that truly is what happened and it was purely innocent, but having all this back and forth doesn't create trust. It does not create trust. The thing, the autopsy wasn't done by Lowndes County coroner.

Correct. Right? It was done by the Ges County coroner. Correct. Right. It was done by the GBI. So what's Bill Watson even got to say about this? Unless he went to the GBI and did it. I'm going to have to look into that. And he could be just speaking as far as practices. That doesn't matter.

You had nothing to do with it then. Shush. Right. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. The pathologist who actually conducted the autopsy, if it in fact wasn't him, should be the one speaking saying, this is what I did. I can tell you that I physically disposed of the organs because

of bad decomposition. If that's the case, hey, listen, and that's your practice? Well, that should have been the initial spokesperson should have said that. And clearly, if this individual was the one who conducted the autopsy, he didn't speak to Sherry Lang, because Sherry Lang was out there saying the organs were with the body. So she clearly didn't do the research to confirm whether or not they were with them. And I highly doubt that the organs were removed by some individual party from the transportation from the GBI to the funeral home. That's just... Well, I mean, who knows? Because Steve Owens was actually named in one of the lawsuits that the Johnson family would later file. I mean, amongst others,

like almost 40 other people besides Steve were named in it. But obviously, you know, at this point, they're like, okay, these are all the people who dealt with my son's body. So we're going to name them all in there. We're going to throw them all in there. So it obviously looks really bad because you don't know which version is true, right? You get three different people or three different entities saying three different things. And

who's to say what's true? Because like you said, obviously this wasn't properly documented, but the fact of the matter is we don't know where those organs are to this day, like for sure. You're right. We don't. I mean, you want to believe that they were disposed of properly, but there's no proof of that. Well, what we do know, though, is that the organs were examined by the GBI, slides and samples were taken and put into storage where they remain to this day. The Johnson family, it seemed for a time, they believed that the funeral home

had disposed of their son's organs to once again cover up his murder. And in 2014, they filed a civil lawsuit against the funeral home, claiming that they were negligent in the handling of KJ's body and deliberately withheld information about the condition of his body. The suit also claimed that Harrington's purposely disposed of KJ's organs, brain, and clothes in an attempt to interfere with the investigation. They also claimed Harrington did not inform the Johnsons of the true condition of KJ's body before burial, which caused the family a great deal of emotional distress when they received the results of the second autopsy and they found out that KJ's body had been stuffed with newspaper. So, Verney Fountain. Verney Fountain runs an embalming school in Missouri. I think it's Springfield. And Fountain actually admitted

that when organs are missing, space inside the body is usually filled with some sort of absorbent preservative powder, and sometimes cotton is used with the powder. However, Fountain also said, quote, I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who told me they used old newspapers. There may not be any law that prohibits it, I don't know, but it's just not something that's within what I would call acceptable standards, end quote. And I agree, that's unacceptable. We should not be stuffing bodies with old newspaper like it's some kind of weird paper mache project, kind of messed up. But it does make sense, right? I mean, a funeral home is a business, right? I hate to say that, they're a business.

And a lot of businesses cut corners when they don't think people are going to see their shoddy work. So it's completely possible that this funeral home did in fact, although I don't think they took the organs, it's definitely possible that not only with KJ's body, but many bodies that they've worked on, they've done this type of thing because it's not something that prohibit, you know, they're not prohibited in doing so, but it's not the standard. But again, they're looking, thinking, I'm just going to be honest here. They're looking at it like, hey, we're going to put them in the ground and nobody's ever going to see them again. So who cares? Well, if you remember, the funeral home did provide these services free of charge, right? So I almost wondered, was the newspaper used to save a

little money because they weren't charging the family, but then at the same time- Which is still terrible. That's still terrible because it was your choice. It was your choice to not charging the family but then at the same time it's still terrible because it was your choice it was your choice to not charge the family you know yeah so you shouldn't take it upon yourself now to cut corners and not give him the burial that he deserves because i just hold the image of him being stuffed with newspapers it just makes me sick i don't like it i find it weird i find it gross disrespectful completely but just to show a different side, this may have been less of a nefarious decision and more of like a financial one. Yeah.

Like I said, cutting corners, man, saving money. Because again, their intentions are pure. They want to save the family money. They want to do things. So they're trying to cut the expense on their end. Don't agree with it. Don't agree. By the way, we're not justifying the expense on their end. Don't agree with it. Don't agree. By the way, we're not justifying this.

It's wrong. I don't like it. But you know what I'm sitting here thinking about real quick? It's like how much stuff goes on behind the scenes, right? I know. Right? Especially at a funeral home. Imagine.

Because, again, you have the wake and, you know, and it's only there. The body's in a, you know, usually dressed up. And then it's. And so what do you what you don't even know what's going on behind the scenes. I don't even want to. And I always think, you know, because I'm like, well, I don't want to be buried because of this specific reason. And it's gross. You don't want to be stuffed with newspapers.

So I'm thinking, you know, maybe I'll be cremated. But then at the same time, you're like, am I even like, is my family even going to be getting my ashes? Or are they just going to be some random other body ashes that are getting scooped into an urn and handed to my family? And now maybe a little of me and some of Ed from down the street and some of Mary who died a week before me is sitting on my family's mantle. Like, I think about this stuff way more than I should, but it just makes me incredibly uncomfortable. I don't like it. Like, we should be treating people with respect, just as much respect as they would get in life, as they would have in death. Like, that's how I feel.

So, you know, Antonio Harrington, I'm not coming for you. I don't know what happened, but ew. Like, don't do that anymore, please. Because there was an investigation done because you know this is like the Johnson family they're not going quiet into that good night they're fighting every inch and in late 2013 the Georgia Secretary of State and I guess the Secretary of State actually regulates funeral homes which I never knew before, but I find that incredibly interesting. But they conducted their own investigation into Harrington's and they found

out that Harrington's did not violate any rules and using the newspaper was in conformity with burial protocol. Not so much like now, but in past years, you know, like in the past, but it's not really commonplace now. But still, there's no laws or rules that were broken. So Jared Thomas, a spokesperson for the Secretary of State's office, said, quote, It's not something very pleasant to talk about, but it's not illegal. End quote. Thanks, Jared. Thank you so much for that helpful statement.

So an attorney for the funeral home said that when Harrington's got the body, there were no organs with it. And Antonio Harrington was told by a GBI death investigator, this is what he was allegedly told, that the organs were disposed of during the autopsy due to decomposition. So I tend to believe that that's probably what actually happened because now we're getting that from Coroner Bill, right? Lowndes County Coroner Bill, also from the GBI. So that's probably what happened. I don't know where Sherry Lang's at. You know, she probably needs to do her homework a little bit more before she's making public statements, because if the GBI, a death investigator with the GBI, told Antonio Harrington that the organs were disposed of because of decomposition is probably what happened. But, you know, also, once again, telephone game, lack of communication. Everybody's pointing a finger at everybody else. We don't have the organs.

We don't have the organs. We don't have we don't give a shit who has the organs. We just want to know where they are and what happened to them. Yeah, it sounds like Sherry jumped the gun. Sounds like she jumped the gun and put her foot in her mouth. Sherry, you need to relax, okay? So Benjamin Crump, a lawyer working with the Johnson family, he said that they were obviously disappointed that the funeral home could not be held responsible for the newspaper thing, which I think is a little petty. But he said it was less important than the critical issue of KJ's organs being discarded or destroyed, which I agree with, because this prevents the family from now retesting and re-examining the organs during their second autopsy. Before we dive in

to what Dr. William Anderson claimed after his autopsy, let's take a quick break. All right, so let's talk about what Dr. William Anderson claimed that he found in his autopsy, the second autopsy. And just for the record, there's going to be another autopsy. So there's three autopsies all day. There's another one that happens, I believe, in 2018. So Anderson said that he found blunt force trauma on the right side of KJ's upper neck. He said the cause of death was blunt force trauma to the right neck involving right mandible and soft tissues, including the area of the carotid body, consistent with inflicted injury. He said there was unexplained apparent non-accidental blunt force trauma and his findings were not consistent with KJ dying from positional asphyxia. The report says,

quote, examination of the previously undissected area and sectioning of the skin reveals evidence of full thickness cutaneous hemorrhage extending into the subcutaneous fat, end quote. William William Anderson told USA Today that he believed KJ had suffered a single blow or pressure to the head or neck and that he did not find the typical signs of positional asphyxia during his autopsy, which would include fluid in the lungs. Anderson also said, quote, there is no evidence he was beaten. It was probably just a single pressure application, end quote. So here's my question. If KJ's organs weren't there, how did William Anderson see that there was no fluid in the lungs? That's a great question. Do the lungs not count as organs? I don't think the lungs are removed in an autopsy. I don't believe they are. The lungs are examined during an autopsy. They take like, yeah, because I mean in the- But I think they use, again, guys, this isn't my area,

so don't crush me for this one, but I believe that they use some, from my past being in the room, I believe they sometimes take like a syringe and withdraw the fluids from the, but I don't believe they remove the lungs because they, I want to be respectful to families. I know they remove the rib cage. That's the worst part for me watching. I hated the noise. I know they remove the rib cage. I don't believe they remove the lungs. Actually, I'm fairly confident they do now that I'm thinking about it, but they do believe some remove some of the smaller organs that can be removed. So you believe they don't remove the lungs, right? Okay. No, I don't believe they do. I believe they take a biopsy of the lungs and they also remove the fluid, if anything,

from inside the lungs to have that analyzed. They use, like I said, like a plunger or whatever, a syringe. But no, I don't believe they removed the lungs from the body. And if I'm wrong, I apologize. That's just my recollection from my observations of watching the autopsies I've been present for. I mean, I feel like you'd have to be right because for him to make a claim about no fluid in the lungs, that's a bold claim when you're also making a claim that there was no organs present, right? So the lungs would have had to have been there. But he's saying that there was no fluid in the lungs, which I also find to be suspicious because if you're hanging upside down for that long, you would think

that there would be fluid in the lungs unless it was removed during the first autopsy i don't know if it dissipated because he he was buried for so june 15th he's the second autopsy happens he dies in january so we're about what six months after i don't know if if fluid could dissipate by that point or what would happen. But this is what he said. And also you have an absorbent in the newspaper inside the body. So, I mean, I think a lot of it is going to be tough to go into that much detail when the body has been manipulated by so many different people. Like I just said, including the funeral home,

which is using products for that exact purpose to absorb any type of liquid that could leak out of the body. I didn't even think about the newspaper thing because yeah, that would do quite a number on any fluids in the body. Secondly, there have been questions about Anderson's claim in the autopsy report where he says something about examining a previously undissected area of KJ's neck. And this is basically Anderson saying that during the first autopsy, the one that was done by the GBI, the injured portion or the portion he considered injured on KJ's neck, it had not been examined. It had not been dissected. But according to the GBI and autopsy photos, that portion of KJ's neck had been examined.

A portion of the first autopsy report states, quote, A layered dissection of the anterior neck is performed. Examination of the soft tissues of the neck, including the strap muscles and large vessels, reveals no abnormalities. The hyoid bone and laryngeal cartilages are intact. The larynx is clear. The lingual mucosa is intact. The underlying musculature is devoid of hemorrhage, end quote. And unfortunately, I was able to locate a picture of KJ's autopsy.

Oh, it was so bad. I don't like it. I don't like it. And it does appear that his neck area was dissected. It's very hard to look at. So it's a picture of him from behind. So you can't see him from the front, but you can clearly see that the side portions of his neck have been peeled back from his body. So, you know, I didn't want to look at it, but I did have to see myself. I couldn't just come on here and say, well, the GBI said it was dissected,

because obviously the GBI is part of this whole alleged coverup and conspiracy. So I couldn't just tell you that they said it was, so it was. I had to see it for myself. You're saying that it does look like they examined that portion of the neck. So this point I'm about to make becomes somewhat moot, but I'm a big mixed martial arts fan. I watch a lot of UFC fighting, and I know there's multiple choke holds where the one guy will use the other guy's arm in addition to the next to compress their arm up against their neck, and they can actually choke him out just like that. And we know that Kendrick had one arm kind of above him. And I wonder if there was some type of compression in that area that caused that damage from his own arm. Now, reading back at what you said, as far

as him indicating it was a blunt force trauma, but then he said he wasn't beaten and it was one impact. So, is it possible that the damage to that area, because I had an autopsy report, an autopsy done or an observation of the autopsy done where there was some compression of the neck and there is damage to the muscles, but it wasn't a blow. It was just, it was a strangulation. So could that be the case with Kendrick where the technically we talked about this last episode, both doctors are coming up with a different interpretation, but they're both not wrong. Maybe what he's saying he sees as far as the contusions or whatever the scientific way to describe it is, maybe he is in fact seeing that,

but the interpretation of how that got there is different between the two doctors. One's saying it's blunt force trauma. One is probably ruling that as some type of damage that was the result of the compression that Kendrick suffered while being stuck in the mat. You see what I'm saying? Yes. But what do you make of the fact that he said previously undissected and then there is picture evidence that that area of both sides of KJ's neck had been dissected? Yeah. And's, and that's why I started, I mean, based on, and again, you're not even directly involved with the case and you're saying I seen that his neck was clearly dissected that we can leave it at. It was clearly,

there was, there were things done to it to see under the skin and to see if there was damage to that muscle. So I don't know how he came to that conclusion. It'd be interesting to see what he saw that suggested that it hadn't been looked at before. I don't know. Again, I think this is all really hard. And I hear about this where these pathologists come back and do, they exhume these bodies and they do these autopsies. It's just like evidence in a case when you have to always document how many people have touched that evidence because even if it's documented, it still hurts the integrity of the evidence, right? Well, it's no different than a body. You have entities who are working at a funeral home. Not all of them are the main guys. Sometimes it's assistants. It's all these who are manipulating these bodies. They're embalming them. They're filling them with other materials.

They're moving things around to make the body look more presentable to the family. So how do you conduct that autopsy after the fact and know that some of these things you're seeing or not seeing are because of the people who are the middlemen, who are involved in the middle process of presenting this body to the family in a way that they would be able to view their son for the last time. Well, if you're a pathologist, like that's your job, that's your expertise. I would hope that you could tell the difference. You'd know the difference. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. It seems like it would make the job a lot harder to be accurate. I think it would be a lot harder than having a fresh body to autopsy that hasn't been touched by a dozen people plus funeral home

and plus buried in the ground for six months. I think it would be a million times easier, but you would hope that they could- They would know the difference. I hope. Yeah. I don't know. But there are-

I don't know if this pathologist is deliberately lying or this is an interpretation, but I would hope that it's what I initially said, which is he's genuinely seeing these things and he's interpreting the body as it is when he analyzed it, when he dissected it himself. And those facts are truly the way he believes they are. And it's not some outside agenda. We don't know. We're not in his mind. But you can only hope that he's coming from a place where, hey, listen, regardless of outside influences, this is what I'm seeing.

And it doesn't appear that that was documented, even though, according to what you're saying as far as the photo, it was. It was, in fact, documented. And we do have to keep in mind, these pathologists, they're not trained at the same school. They're not trained by the same person. They don't have the same teachers. So each one of them is going to have a different way of getting from point A to point B, right?

And they're going to have different training and they're going to be trained to notice different things. So this is often why you see disparities between different pathologists, like completely glaringly different to the point where you're like, who's lying here? Not necessarily anybody's lying. They're seeing different things. They're interpreting it in a different way. Now, I do know that I believe it's Dr. Anderson, he does at this point make his living off of doing these independent autopsies and then testifying at trial.

So you could say that that either means he has a lot more experience in doing these independent autopsies, or you could say this is how he makes his living. So he might want to deliver the results that the person who's paying him expects to see, right? Yeah. And that's not the only field that happens. And we've seen numerous cases, highly publicized cases where I'll bring up Derek Chauvin for an example. It's a perfect case. You have use of force experts and there's multiple use of force

experts and one guy is testifying that chauvin was in the right and two are testing that he was testifying that he was in the wrong but they're because it's subjective it's right it's open to like there's different types of money in your pocket if derrick i'm trying i'm trying to assume they're good people here Stephanie and that they're not their their opinions aren't for for sale but they are they are they are for sale this is this is not all not all not all we're not gonna we're not gonna make blanket statements here and say that all of these professional trial experts are for sale, but this is how they make their living. This is what they do every day, all day, right?

And listen, lawyers will shop. So they'll shop around for experts who- Say what they want them to say. They believe that, oh, this expert believes it was this. We're going to hire them. We're going to put them on the stand, even though they talked to three other experts that said the opposite. So, and again, we're not saying it specifically for Kendrick's family or anything. We're saying in general, this is a thing. And I said it last episode, again, I know multiple world-renowned pathologists that make a living just serving as expert witnesses in cases throughout the country. That's what they do.

And I'm not saying they're doing it for the money or whatever. I'm just saying that's what they do for a living. And their job is to Monday morning quarterback, whether it's in favor or against the original pathologist that conducted the autopsies. That's what they do. That's how they feed their family. So is there incentive for them to come up with the opinion that's in favor of what the person that hired them is looking for? Yeah. Yeah, it is. I mean, let's let's just be real here, right? How many times have you ever seen an expert witness go up for like the defense and say

something that causes a problem for the defendant? How many times? Like, I mean, I've seen it one seen it less than 1% of the time. Well, the lawyer ain't putting them on the stand because, again, they have a pre-conference, a pre-interview. And so, yeah, they're interviewing multiple experts and they may interview three pathologists. If two of them don't give them the answers that they're looking for, they don't make the stand. Right.

They don't they don't get up there. So and you see this all the time with psychiatrists in trial, too. Right. You'll have the the person who's sitting there, the defendant, and you'll have two psychiatrists who have examined them. And one psychiatrist who's with the state is like, this person's completely sane. They know exactly what they're doing. They're manipulative.

And then the other psychiatrist is like, they've got PTSD. They're schizophrenic. They've got this. They have operational or oppositional defiant disorder, all sorts of things. And you're sitting there thinking, how could two medical professionals be so far apart on their opinion? And it's usually because they're being paid to have that opinion. And if they didn't have the right opinion, they wouldn't be sitting in that courtroom. And that's just my opinion. Don't come for me. But it is what it is. It's an unfortunate part of our system, but it is a reality in the justice system. Make no mistakes about it. It's a reality. Well, there's just as many people who

are out there that believe 1 million percent this was a murder. There are people out there who believe 1 million percent it was an accident. And those people, when they talk about this autopsy, the second autopsy, they bring up the fact that there was no broken bones in the throat. And this really does seem to be one of the only cases where somebody would die from an injury like this, because you don't usually die from just one single blow to the neck, I guess, unless a person was very, very strong and they hit the right thing. But as far as I can tell, not many people die from being hit in the throat. And he does say in the autopsy, like one blow to the throat or the head, which also confuses me a little bit because it's like, is it a blow to the throat or is it a blow to the head? Because these are different parts of your body. Do you see anything on his head that would suggest he'd been hit in the head because you didn't bring that up in your report? So which one is it? I wonder if he's insinuating that the blow to the throat or head rendered him unconscious and then

Kendrick was moved into the mat. Maybe that's what he's suggesting, that the blow didn't actually result in death, but that was what rendered him unable to defend himself. That makes sense, but that's not what he's saying. He's saying the cause of death was the blow to the throat, right? And he's saying that he doesn't see signs of positional asphyxia, like fluid in the lungs. So he's literally, and I would be behind that.

This blow rendered him unconscious. He was placed upside down in the mat and then died from positional asphyxia. While in there. This makes a million times more sense. But to say that he was. They should have hired me. Right. But to say that he got hit either in his head or his neck and died as a result of that single blow.

Because he did say that KJ was not beaten. He didn't see signs that this young man was beaten. So for him to die from this one blow to his head or his neck, um, and not from the positional asphyxia, it's a, it's a little harder to swallow. So I think he would have been better off saying knocked him unconscious.

And then he died from positional asphyxia. Yeah. that it killed them, you would expect to see some significant injury to the exterior of the neck, right? And the head that would suggest, you know. As well as the interior, like a broken bone, you know, you have bones all here. And if you're hit that hard, you're going to see some sort of, if not a break, a fracture of some kind. And there was none of that. So that is's it's strange. But this autopsy did obviously provoke the Johnson family to believe that what their initial thought was was correct. And I think we should probably cut this short. I do want to get into the surveillance video because that's another very interesting conversation. But that's a little bit of a longer conversation. And I know that we're already at about over an hour. What do you think? We're way over an hour and we were expecting to get through this portion and just want to, but it's again, we don't want to rush it. We also don't want to make this episode three hours long, not necessarily for you guys. We know you like it, but we do have an editor. Hey, John. Yeah, John.

Shout out to John. We want to get it out on time. And so there's a lot of work that goes into it. So yeah, I agree with you. And the next topic that we're going into the footage, I don't want to rush through that either. I don't either because I have a lot of questions for you because I know you're a tech savvy kind of person and I'm not at all.

So I would really hope for some clarification from you because I know you're a tech savvy kind of person and I'm not at all. So I would really hope for some clarification from you because I know you're smart with that stuff and I'm not, I'm dumb. I do like that. I am a nerd in that way. In a lot of ways you're a nerd. But fair, it's fair. You're not wearing your CrossFit shirt this week though.

No, I'm not wearing my CrossFit shirt, Stephanie. I'm not wearing my CrossFit shirt. Again, guys'm not wearing my crossfit shirt again guys i hope you're all documenting this just screenshot it she's continuously abusive to me all the time and i just take it and i just hope that someone out there is is uh documenting all of this um because this is an unsafe work environment it is unhealthy yeah toxic and uh toxic and i'm considering pursuing legal ramifications when he goes out of the recording room and his wife's like hey he's like what you say and he like cringes you know he's like this woman is so mean to me but i do want to tell you guys a funny story before we go so before we hopped on we're supposed to start recording at

eight and derrick facetimed me and he's like, I need some more time. Right. And you should have seen the shirt he was wearing. Right. It was like a bit navy blue, all holes all over. And he's like, this is my workout shirt. Okay. And I did work out today.

He said to me. And he said, now I need 12 minutes to do my gel. Well, you know why? Because if I'm longer than, because Stephanie won't talk to me all day. And then when it's time to record at eight, if I'm on at like eight Oh five, she's like, where are you? Let's go now. And so I had to put an exact time on it. And I was two minutes early because I was in fear that she would scold me and yell at me and call me names if I wasn't here on time. So I quickly threw gel on my hair and do this, you know, got down before she called me. It took a lot of restraint on my part to not look

at him and be like, dude, you, you need 12, 12 minutes to, to put your gel on your hair. Well, it was also changing my gym shirt. Cause you know, I had just worked out so hard and I had to change my shirt, you know, throw some, I mean, do we really got to get into this deodorant? You know, the whole process. Yeah. I want to smell good. I'm sitting here. Technology. I don't want to be smelling myself for an hour and a half. I mean, really?

We're going here. This is brutal. I apologize to everyone listening that you guys are having to witness this abuse. 12 minutes. Because it's really bad. Okay. I need 12 minutes to put gel in my hair. I will be posting a YouTube tutorial on my 12 minute regimen for my gel.

And don't act like I don't talk to you all day. Okay. That's rude. She completely ignores me all day. I'm working and I answer his call all the time. And he's like, do you have a minute? And I'm like, not really, but for you, anything. She does do that.

Yeah, she does. She does do that. Yep. Yep. So guys, I'm constantly battling here guys just just pray pray for me pray for me hey and by the way real quick we're working on the merch stuff i reached out to a couple people we're gonna try to do the t-shirt in the mug we heard you guys on the um on social media thank you for that um really good response and bear with us but

we're gonna we're gonna make it happen i think think that's it, right? We covered a case. I berated you. Basically insulted you again. Check, check. Made fun of me. Check. And then we finished off with, yeah, so I think we covered it. Yeah, I feel like we got everything done that we need to do.

Yep. Shout outs to all the speak pipes too. I've been listening to them all. I've been sending every single one to Stephanie. They've been really, really good. We're getting a every single one to Stephanie. They've been really, really good. We're getting a lot of them now, but they've been really good and we appreciate

all the compliments and the support and all the case suggestions. We really do. We love you guys and we will talk to you next week. Thank you so much for being here. We'll see you soon.

Don't forget to follow us on social media and give us a five-star rating. I know some people think it's offensive that I ask for a five-star rating, but, you know, give us a five-star rating. I know some people think it's offensive that I ask for a five-star rating, but give us a five-star rating. It helps. It helps us. If you want us to keep doing this, we need those ratings. We need those stars. Right, Derek? Tell them. Tell them we need them. Absolutely. We need them. I'll say whatever you want, Steph. You just don't hit me.

You're like my best paid for witness in court. You're like, best like paid for witness in court. You're like right Derek? Right? Right? I don't even have to pay him guys. I just have to shoot him that look. Comment down below. Let us know comment undercover pineapple. Undercover pineapple. We'll see you next time. Bye. Later.