Crime Weekly - S1 Ep35: Disappearance at Indiana University: Lauren Spierer (Part 2)

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Check out Vodacast for this episode! -- http://feed.vodacast.com/55650070/Crime%20Weekly/35:%20Disappearance%20at%20Indiana%20University:%20Lauren%20Spierer%20(Part%202) “It is shocking that someone so loved could vanish without a trace, but entirely possible. It did happen and ten years later I still struggle. The space that once held hopes and dreams for Lauren will never heal. It is replaced by an ache fueled by the not knowing”. Those were the words Charlene Spierer wrote on the ten year anniversary of the disappearance of her daughter Lauren. When Lauren’s parents dropped their daughter off at Indiana University in the Fall 2009 for the start of her freshman semester, they had felt she would be safe to learn and grow and then she would come back home, ready for the next chapter in her life. But Lauren never came back home, and to this day, ten years later, no one has any idea where Lauren Spierer is, but her parents and many others believe that there is someone, or more than one someone, who does know more than they’re saying, and who could help bring the Spierer family some closure. Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So we are picking up with part two of the Lauren Spear case. Unless you have something you want to talk about, I think we should dive right in. Yeah, let's dive right into it. If you just listened to part one or you listened to it last week, then you know we've just taken about a 10-minute break and we're going right at it. So this is fresh in our heads. Let's not waste any time. We'll get right into it. So Lauren's missing and her parents, they go to IU and they're staying in the city so they can search for her. And the initial search for Lauren went on for several weeks. And there was tons and tons of local volunteers,

including notable local figures such as the IU basketball coach, Tom Crean, and Eric Berman. And Eric Berman's the father of another IU student who'd gone missing only to turn up dead. Her name was Jill Berman. Now, apparently, Lauren's boyfriend, Jesse Wolf, he did help search for her. It was the first two days he was with everyone searching for her, talking to her parents. But then his parents flew in from New York, and they basically, like, spirited him away. Like, they took him back with them. On June 7th, the police gave their first press conference where Lieutenant Bill Parker said, quote,

when somebody at 4.30 in the morning, no shoes and has earlier been drinking, goes out and then just disappears off a street corner, we feel there certainly has to be foul play involved, end quote. So at this point, the police are not saying that they have any suspects or persons of interest. They're just saying, we suspect foul play. But of course, it's a small town.

It's a college town. Everybody knows everybody. Everybody's in everyone's business. And it wasn't very long before everyone was talking about the men that Lauren was with that night, including Jay Rosenbaum, her friend, and Corey Rossman, the man she was with for most of the evening. So, of course, they start talking about it amongst themselves and online. And, you know, it started a fire. But the police never said anything that they were suspects or persons of interest. And many, right? Because they can't, right? No, listen. Yeah, exactly. They don't want to paint an unnecessary target on anybody.

But as they said, Lieutenant Bill Parker said, no shoes, 4.30 in the morning had been drinking, just disappears out of nowhere. And the absence of her, right? Can't forget that either. The fact that if this was a situation where she had something go wrong with her heart or she fell and severely injured herself, it's a small, short walk from where she was to where she was going. So you would think they would have found her relatively quickly. This isn't like a, you know, a five to six mile square area where they're just searching a grid for her. It's a very small area where she could have quote unquote disappeared. So for those reasons, what he's saying is, listen, we've searched the area, we've scoured the area, she's not here. And so that

leads us to believe that something happened to her and then someone made the effort to remove her body or hide her body so that it would not be found. And I think that's pretty easy to get that he's implying that from what he said. He's saying, hey, right out, we think she's either been kidnapped or she's been killed. And obviously, we're looking at this 10 years later. So the presumption at this point is that she's no longer with us, although I hope that's not the case. The more time that passed after this initial statement, the less likely that she was to be found alive. What do you think about Jesse's parents coming and bringing him back to New York when she's missing his girlfriend? So she hasn't been murdered at this point as far as they know, as far as we know. She's just missing. It's only been two days. What do you make

of them coming out to Indiana and then taking him back with them to New York? I have no problem with it. And that's coming from a cop. I have no problem with it as a parent, because as a parent reading between the lines, you have to know that your son is going to be a person of interest. And if you're not there to protect him, he could be intimidated by law enforcement or make a decision that's not in the best interest of him or the family. He might say something that could get him in trouble unintentionally. And as I said in the first, you know, part of this, you know, story, based on what we

know, it sounds to me, and maybe if I was, you know, I might get some comments on this. It sounds to me like Lauren was out without the knowledge of Jesse being aware that she was out. And it sounds to me like, I don't, I'm getting, we're not victim shaming here, but it sounds to me like she had an intention to go out that night and meet new people without her boyfriend knowing. That's just my opinion. Don't come for me. I'm still on Stephanie's line there. And so I'm sure he was heartbroken in that sense, where his girlfriend of three years told him she was going to sleep and she was out with another man. So that's part of it. And so from a law enforcement perspective, he's got a motive out

of everybody. He's got a motive because he could have ran into her afterwards and been extremely upset with her because although it was four 30 in the morning, it was only an hour or two after his friend saw her with another man. So it would be just enough time for him to get his stuff together and go look for her and find her. So I'm sure in law enforcement's head, he's probably someone they're seriously considering as a potential suspect, even though they're not saying it. And I'm sure his lawyers relayed that to him and his parents. So if I were the parents and he's telling me he had nothing to do with it, I'm making sure that he's with us so that any questioning that's done is in the presence of one of his parents or his lawyer.

So I have no issue with it whatsoever. So speaking of lawyers, most of the young men that Lauren had been with that night, they decided to retain lawyers pretty early on. But it was reported that Jay Rosenbaum, he's the guy she was friends with for a couple of years. She met him at summer camp. They went to the same school together, IU, and then she's at his house, his townhouse, for a party that night. And he was allegedly the last person to see her alive. So it was reported that he gave two statements to the police and rode with them to the place that he claimed he had last seen Lauren before he lawyered up. He also gave them his phone to look through. However, in the months after the

disappearance, someone online claimed to have seen a tweet that suggested Jay may have had out-of-town visitors staying with him that weekend from Michigan, and they were at his townhome the night Lauren disappeared. And I read something today, I think on Reddit, where somebody from the area was saying that the morning after, like very early in the morning, there were some guys at Jay Rosenbaum's apartment, and they were kind of like packing up their car to leave. So like before she was even reported missing, they would have been getting ready to leave. So some people thought that was suspicious that he would have sort of out of town visitors. And if you remember, Jay Rosenbaum was from Michigan and he may have had, you know, people. It kind of reminds me of that one case we did.

Remember, I forget which one, the girl who was at college and she was murdered and we think it might have been a roommate. Karina Rosario. Karina Rosario was the roommate. But with Faith Hedgepath. Faith Hedgepath. Yeah. So remember, we were talking like one of the guys who we it might have been a roommate. Karina Rosario. Karina Rosario was the roommate. But with Faith Hedgepath. Faith Hedgepath. Yeah. So remember we were talking like one of the guys who we think might have been involved or was a suspect had like, may have had friends over that night.

And it's kind of very hush-hush about who they were. Yeah. Eric DeCoy Jones. Yeah. There's a lot of guys. Yeah. So. No, this is compelling information.

This is a girl who was drunk, maybe being a little flirtatious. She wanted to hang out with guys she was asking mike to hang out with her earlier you know and one of these guys you know let's just guys let's call what is we're mostly adults listening to this or watching this these guys are up visiting their buddy at college in one of the biggest party schools in the country they're looking to get drunk and they're looking to get laid and you're sitting in your buddy's apartment you know what time is it 3 30 4 30 in the it? 3.30, 4.30 in the morning? 3.30 when she got there, yeah. 3.30 in the morning and this girl who's drunk falls on your lap.

Could one of them wanted to have taken advantage of that situation knowing that they're going to be leaving the next day? I don't think that's crazy to think that. Were they even planning to leave the next day? Well, that's the question. But if it's the weekend and you're like, hey, I'm only here. But you're right. That could be interpreted other ways. Why were they in such a rush to leave? Was that pre-planned or was that something that came up because they wanted

to get out of there as fast as possible? What do you, what do you think? I mean, I thought this information was very interesting because now this brings other people into the fold. Well, it's never been like confirmed by law enforcement. Right. And Jay did hire two lawyers, actually, Jennifer Lukemeyer and Jim Voiles. And Jim Voiles is a high profile defense attorney. He's most well known for representing big name clients in high profile cases like Mike Tyson during his 1992 trial for rape. And according to Jay Rosenbaum's attorney, there were other people around that night, but the lawyer said,

we believe the police have all their names and information. So it's never really been confirmed by law enforcement whether or not there were people there. But I think that this statement from Jay's lawyer would suggest that there were and that the police have the information and the names of these people. But who are the police going to get? Where are they going to get the names and information

of these people from? They're going to get it from from the people who were like Jay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So does he have to be honest when he tells them everybody that was there? These are strangers. They're not going to be known to the other students, even if people saw them at a party. They're not going to know, oh, this students even if people saw them at a party they're not going to know oh this was jay's friend from michigan they might just be like oh it's somebody i don't know so jay could have given them the names and information of some people who were there and not others like we just don't know it's very up in the air it'd be a ball it'd be a bold move to lie you know in case somebody else saw them that night but yeah you're right he absolutely could he's the only source but you But not to go too far down the road. Again, this is touching on theory territory,

but something happened that night with one of these guys and it got sexual. And let's even say it was an accident where they didn't know she had a heart condition and the mixture of cocaine and they're having sex and something happens. And now they're like, oh my God, we killed her. Well, the only way it's going to link back to them is if she's there because they can run DNA and all these different things, fingernail, all that stuff. It's going to link back to them is if she's there because they can run DNA and all these different things, fingernail, all that stuff. It's going to come back to one of those guys. So it'd be advantageous for her body not to be found because of the evidence that would be found on her.

So it would explain why she's never been found. Because if the person who was involved with this, whether it was intentional or accidental, they don't want you to find her body because it would link back to them. So it is an interesting scenario. And there also is the other side of the token, which you guys hate when I do it, but I will, that they're completely innocent and they just happen to be there and they were having a good time with their buddy and they sent her on her way. But that's why we're here to explore.

That's why we're here to talk about it. We're going to give you the information. You can come to your own conclusions. I mean, that theory might also explain why Lauren wasn't seen on any surveillance cameras leaving Jay's house too yeah yeah oh yeah but again i don't want to go too far off the beaten path here but it's like you know to get rid of a body if that were the case without anybody seeing it they're either very smart or very lucky because this is a townhome you know this is like there's other apartments there right

i mean do you know the layout of it i I don't. I mean, this was multiple living quarters, right? Yeah. It looks like they're townhomes and then there's like a door that goes out to the parking lot. But I mean, I'm also thinking about it like she's 4'11". She's 95 pounds. You could literally put a little girl like that in like a garbage bag and carry her out to your car. And it's 4.30 in the morning, 5 o'clock in the morning. Nobody's sitting outside watching you. The security cameras weren't working at the town homes. So yeah, I think it's very possible to at least get her out of there. What they did with her after, and we're not saying this is what happened. It's just a theory, but what they would do with her after to make sure she never resurfaces, that's another question. But I think

it'd be pretty easy to get away from there without anyone seeing. Yeah, especially if you're right. We talk about the cameras at that immediate location not working. So it's not like they would have footage of them leaving the building with a large bag or a suitcase or even a trash. Anything. Nope. That's abnormal for that time of the morning, right? Because anything being brought out at that time in the morning would be suspicious. It's going to raise eyebrows, yeah. But there's nothing to be seen. So by the time the June 7th press conference happened, social media was already lit up with posters asking for information about Lauren, spreading her story as far and as wide as

possible. Some celebrities got into this, started sharing her story. It wasn't to me, I don't care about celebrities and what they do, but Stephen Colbert shared it. I think there was a couple other like big names out there who kind of like got on board and shared her story. It was on America's Most Wanted, things like that. You know, it got some exposure and, you know, it didn't really bring in anything reliable, though. And Lauren's boyfriend, Jesse Wolf, told a reporter from the Washington Post, quote, everyone should know how much I love her and I'd give anything to have her back with me, end quote. So Jesse's clearly upset. And, you know, he's, like you said, probably heartbroken

because maybe Lauren wasn't doing what she said she would be doing that night. And now he doesn't even have a chance to, like, talk it out with her, right? He doesn't even have a chance to ask her, why did you lie? Or what were your plans? Because she's gone. So it's very traumatic for him. Well, Tuesday night, police entered Lauren's apartment to search it and it was reported that they found a small amount of cocaine, like a really small amount. As far as I know, Lauren's parents have never confirmed that they were aware that she used drugs. They seem to kind of be open to it. Like, you know, she was a college kid. She may have dabbled in that, but like from what we know of her for her whole entire life, like that's not the person

she was. But Lauren had also left her medication for her heart condition at her apartment, which caused her parents even more stress and worry because without that medication, her condition, her heart condition could be very fatal. Police also, they took the security footage from the apartment building, her apartment building. And it's kind of funny because they were like really serious about getting this information as soon as possible. When they initially went to the security office in the apartment complex, no one was there. It was locked. I guess like they didn't have anyone on duty. So the police took a battering ram and like knocked down the door to the security office and got that footage that they needed. And law enforcement also took three hard drives from Lauren's apartment. And according to a man named Roman Yampolosky, he's apparently the director of

cybersecurity for the University of Louisville. He said police would probably use the hard drives and whatever information they found on Lauren's computer to create a list of persons of interest or possible suspects who may have messaged Lauren before her disappearance or who were like corresponding with her or maybe someone had emailed her a location to meet them at. Yeah, I got some thoughts on it. Want to take a quick break and then we'll dive into it? Yeah. I got some thoughts on it. You want to take a quick break and then we'll dive into it? Yeah. All right. We're back from break and a couple of things. Some people might be saying, why chain of custody, ramming in the door for the hard drives. At that point, they're doing it because, and we've talked about this in previous episodes, preservation of life. You have a young

woman who's missing. At that point, we're not worried about the case afterwards. We're worried about finding her. And if there's something on those tapes that could assist us in doing so, we'll deal with the consequences later as far as being able to prosecute someone if something happened to her. We just want to have the most up-to-date information we can have when trying to locate this woman. And yeah, like Roman Yampolski. How do you say it? Roman Yampolski? up-to-date information we can have when trying to locate this woman um and yeah like uh roman yampalasky how do you say it roman yampalisky you've got me man i said it once i can't repeat it yampalisky guys don't judge me he's russian i think he's yeah i would he's definitely not irish

yeah you know so of course they're gonna they're gonna establish that list to see if there's someone who she was having i don't necessarily think it would be someone she was meeting that night because clearly she wasn't even coherent enough to be having a conversation. She didn't even have her phone with her and she didn't go back to the room at any point where she could have been exchanging emails or social media messages. So it's unlikely that's that going to lead to somewhere unless it was a previous relationship that maybe Jesse wasn't aware of. But as far as that night's concerned, I don't know if it's going to tell them too much. That all being said,

it's an absolute necessity because if you don't do it, people will ask why you didn't. So again, it's part of the process. You want to explore all digital evidence that you have, regardless of how unlikely it is to reveal something that could be useful in the investigation. But it's one of those boxes that you have to check off as you're going through your process. And it's a smart thing to do, of course, with someone who has a cell phone, has a computer. Maybe the person you're looking for isn't one of the obvious people of interest that you already have. Maybe it's someone that hasn't been identified yet, and maybe the digital data will reveal that. Yeah. And I also think they went so hard to get that security footage because

i've done cases before where certain apartment buildings or whatever they have their security footage on like a loop so it'll like record for 24 hours or 48 hours and then it'll start recording right so they probably wanted to get it as soon as possible in the event that something like that would happen because when like you said lauren's missing she's 20 years old at this point you're going to want to make sure you get that asap so you can see like did she come home was she with anybody that we don't know about was she with anybody that we haven't talked to yet you're going to want that information as soon as possible agreed on a wednesday so the day after they go into her apartment uh bloomington police sent a dive team to search Lake Monroe near the Four Winds Resort and Marina.

They claimed that they searched this area due to a very specific, anonymous tip that claimed Lauren might be there, but the divers found nothing. Lauren's father, Robert Spearer, made a plea to the public to keep a lookout for his daughter, and he asked the people of Bloomington to search through fields and woods and barns, sheds and garages to see if they could find anything, any sign of her. And Lieutenant Parker notified the public that the search for Lauren was ongoing and had stretched beyond the city limits of Bloomington, but they still did not have any persons of interest, and they were still working on conducting interviews and giving polygraph exams. Your favorite.

Yeah. Well, this is interesting because the polygraph exam comes up a lot in this case. It looks like to me that none of these guys, Jesse, Jesse Wolf, Jay Rosenbaum, Corey, none of them took like police polygraphs. According to like their lawyers and their families and stuff, they took private polygraphs and then they passed those, but they

never took any police polygraphs. And Jesse's mother, Jesse's mother specifically is going to explain her reasoning for this and we'll get into that. But one of the articles I was reading was from like a defense attorney and he said, is this is pretty common actually like a defense attorney will often give their client a polygraph test like a private polygraph test because a they want to see like is this person lying it's not going to matter if they're lying because you know you're their defense attorney but you have to you have to understand how you need to approach their defense and so you're going to approach it differently if they're lying than if they're not. And he said, so if the client fails the polygraph test, nobody ever finds out about it.

But if they pass, then they use it to like release to the public and show that their client is innocent. Yeah, makes sense. I mean, I don't mind it. I don't hate the move. You know, obviously, from a detector's perspective, I'd rather them interview with me. But I still think it holds some weight that they're willing to take a polygraph exam and yeah you could put you could you have to skew your your judgment of that polygraph result a little bit but i will say this that most certified polygraphers are going to stick with whatever result it is because it's their careers on the line and they

could be called on to testify under oath in court. So if a polygrapher is willing to go out on a limb and say he passed this test, that's their career on the line. And most guys aren't going to throw that away for one case, although I'm sure they got paid pretty well. So I think it holds weight. So here's my question though. Do you think that a lawyer would be less likely to lie about their client taking a polygraph test to begin with? So what I'm wondering is, did some of these lawyers just say they took polygraphs and didn't? Or would the lawyer be less likely to lie about that because there might be a chance that this might come up in a court of law and they'd have to prove that they took a polygraph? That's my opinion. I mean, you'd be a pretty shitty lawyer to lie about that publicly because yeah, the prosecutor could put you, you know, could ask you under oath as well.

You made the statement is that, you know, did you lie? And if you did your credibility shot with the jury. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you'd better, you're better off just saying nothing at all than putting something out there that can be proven as not factual. So I believe't, I wouldn't, you'd better, you're better off just saying nothing at all than putting something out there that can be proven as not factual. So I believe them. I believe that they took it and, you know, they probably went with someone who was reputable, but that they felt was maybe a little bit more friendly and easier to deal with. And I actually don't have an issue with it. We talked about polygraph.

I have no issue with it. I think it shows something that they were willing to take it. And, and, and, you know, if they were completely guilty, I think they probably would have told their lawyer behind the scenes, like, I really don't want to take this test. No, no, no, no. You don't understand. I really, really don't want to take this test. You don't want me to take this test. You don't want me to take the, exactly. So I think for me, as much as polygraphs don't really hold a lot of weight in the court of law, I do think it says something that these guys, without being forced to do so, voluntarily agreed to take polygraphs to prove their innocence to some degree. And I think that should be considered.

I'll consider it. Okay. You consider it. So locals began comparing Lauren's disappearance to the disappearance of another young IU student, Jill Berman. And we touched on this very quickly in the first part. We talked about how Jill Berman's father was helping with the search for Lauren. But Jill was a 19-year-old business major who was an avid biker. She rode her bike every single day.

I think she owned like a $1,300 bike. Like she was legit into it. And on May 31st, 2000, Jill logged off her computer at around 9.30 a.m. and she went on a bike ride. Half an hour later, she was seen riding her bike near the intersection of Harrell Road and Moffett Lane in Bloomington. But when she didn't show up for her noon shift at the student's recreational sports center or for lunch with her grandparents, her father reported her missing. Two days later, the police received a call that Jill's bike had been found by a jogger

and it was found the same day she went missing, but this jogger hadn't put two and two together until he'd heard about her disappearance on the news. He said that he found the bike on the side of the road near a cornfield 10 miles northwest of Bloomington. There was no damage to it at all. Jill's body would not be found until three years later, discarded in some remote woods. She'd been shot in the back of the head, and it would be another three years before anyone was arrested for her murder. However, this man, John Myers, he always claimed he was innocent of the murder.

And although there's definitely compelling circumstantial evidence, there were no eyewitnesses or physical evidence to really tie him to it. So there were some rumors going around speculating on whether Jill's killer was still out there and if he had struck again. You know, listen, anything's possible. You know, you can't rule anything out unless you definitively have information that would rule someone out or this being connected to any other case. And I'm sure a lot of these scenarios were explored. Although, again, you know, she's out biking. There's numerous opportunities to, you know, take advantage of that situation with Jill.

Lauren, there was a very short distance. This person would have had to have had these intentions and been at the exact right place in time at that very moment, because again, it was only a one block, two block walk. So it's either a case of being extremely unfortunate and unlucky in Lauren's case, or this person who had these intentions just happened to be lurking in the area, waiting for her to come back out because he saw Lauren walk into the building. Yeah, I guess it's possible. But if you're watching this, my face tells you that it's highly unlikely. It's highly unlikely. Well, there was another thing with Jill, though, because where her bike was found,

her father was like she never would have been there. So he didn't believe that her bike had gotten there like with her riding it. Yeah, that it had been it had been left there because she didn't like to ride on roads she usually just stuck to like bloomington she don't she wouldn't go like out on highways and stuff so i mean technically if she was abducted which clearly she was it was probably within the city limits don't you think yeah i would think so in her and the body was again for the same reasons that it could be with Lauren. We just don't know where whoever the perpetrator was, they didn't anticipate Jill's body being found. That wasn't like they were like, oh, we hope it's found, but not till years later. They don't want it to ever be found. They're hoping it decomposes and animals and all these things where even if someone comes in that area, they're not going to find anything. And that wasn't the case with Jill. And so, yeah, I agree with you. They discarded the bike because again, even if they're not in possession of Jill's body, if they're in possession of the bike or even seen with the bike, they're going to be suspect number one. So the bike is almost as dangerous as the body itself, because at that point, if you're found with that bike, you got major explaining

to do. So yeah, they wanted to dump it. The fact that it was on the side of the road, you said, I mean, that's a little odd. That's the place you would pick. But sense of urgency, they don't want to be seen with it. They don't want to be seen dumping it. Probably don't want to get fingerprints on it and be handling it a lot. Right. So you dump it where you can and that's it. But I do agree. I think she was found more close to home and these things were discarded at a further distance to try to disassociate the suspect from being connected with the crime. to that place where her bike was found and was like toss it out you know because they didn't find fingerprints on that bike so either they came prepared with gloves and stuff or they had her do it herself before they killed her but uh yes with jill but let's cut to a quick commercial or a quick sponsored break and then we will come back and talk more about the investigation into lauren into Lauren Spears' disappearance.

All right, so we're back, and I want to talk about a report from a Bloomington homeless man. Apparently, he was really well-known around the area, and they even had a nickname for him. They called him Franklin Road Dog Crawford. So apparently, he, I don't know if he told police this, but he told somebody that he'd heard a woman scream at 4.35 a.m. on the night Lauren Spear went missing, and he heard the scream just west of where she was last seen. Unfortunately, Road Dog passed away just a few days after Lauren

went missing, and although a reporter from the Bloomington Herald Times did look into his claim, it's unclear whether or not law enforcement ever did. The only thing I could find about this man, Road Dog, was a 2016 article about breaking ground on a new apartment building for people who experienced chronic homelessness, and they called it Crawford Homes. This is a homage to him. The article claims the city is carrying on Road Dogg's name by helping the homeless people of the city. And then it says that Road Dogg died next to a dumpster in 2011. So I'm not sure what the circumstances of his death were. he's dead but I think if he died from anything like suspicious or shady like he had killed himself maybe that would be more notable it doesn't appear that that's what happened it looks like he was kind of an older guy maybe he just died of like a heart attack or natural causes or something I don't know but either way at the end of the day I don't I don't really know whether or not

law enforcement checked out this claim like looked at security cameras around that time where Road Dogg claimed to hear the scream. I'm not sure. I do think they combed all the security cameras in that area that could even be inside of an establishment, whatever it is. I mean, you're creating a grid. You're identifying every business in that area that could potentially have security cameras. And you're going there and asking for consent to search or getting a because maybe you see someone fleeing the area you know that's not in the immediate you know surrounding of where she was taken you know maybe just happen to see an individual running for two set you know off camera and you're like wait what was that so i'm sure they did that i would if they didn't it'd be terrible police work i'd be willing to bet money on it that they did that but this whole road dog thing if we really just take him at his word for a second, because I mean, I guess he could be looking for attention or money or whatever, but you know, if we're to

take what he said at face value, it would make perfect sense because I don't know how he would know the exact time. Um, this isn't to be funny or anything, but did he have a watch or a phone? You know, again, I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, but how would he know exactly at 4 35 all right so here's the thing too apparently there's this big ass clock in bloomington like a high clock and it's like got a lit up face that's something else i found out but apparently there's this big clock tower i guess and it's got like a big clock and it's a lit up face so no matter where you are like you if you're in there, you know what time it is. And he would know that obviously being someone who's in the area. That's interesting. So, okay. So let's say he's telling the truth for a second. And that is what he heard at that specific time. Well, you have a guy who's objective, who's unbiased, who really has no

incentive to lie. And it would line up perfectly with the fact that she left Jay around 4.30. It's a very short walk. And in that time frame, someone sees her, sees how vulnerable she is, and decides maybe not even to try to persuade her. Maybe they do for a second. And she's like, leave me alone. I don't know you. And then before you know it, they're picking her up and throwing her in a car because they happen to be driving by.

And she's screaming as they're throwing her in the car is that possible absolutely it's possible and it would explain why there's such a lack of evidence as far as her disappearance and her whereabouts because it could be an unknown individual completely so really interesting stuff it's unfortunate it always seems like that happens you get a witness that is literally possibly a key to the case and something happens like this it just if it i was shaking my head when you were saying because it seems like it happens way too often but it's the way it's the world of investigations and i mean he could have heard a scream but it doesn't necessarily mean it was lauren you know you're a college in a college town um yeah it was

late it was 4 30 but once again from what i could tell like the bars in this area they really didn't pick up and start like going until like 11 30 midnight so people are gonna still be around walking around at 4 30 these these kids are drunk shrieking you know acting like damn fools in the streets it could have just been like some girl getting chased by her boyfriend and shrieking and and you know it's been attributed to lauren so we don't really know. Definitely. Yeah. Absolutely correct. Yep. Definitely. But still, it would have been nice to have him around to get a more specific location

of where it was. But bad timing, man. Yeah. You ain't kidding, huh? Well, let's talk about how Corey acted after Lauren disappeared. Corey Rossman's attorneys told the press that Corey may have sustained a concussion from being punched that night by Zach Oates. And he could not remember why the fight had happened. And he couldn't remember much of anything that happened after that.

So this was like the narrative that was coming out from his lawyers for a while. And Corey would later tell the media that Lauren's parents were harassing him even though he had cooperated with law enforcement. He said, quote, it's inappropriate the way they're harassing people who are also victims in this case. We've done nothing wrong. If we'd done something wrong, we would have been arrested already, end quote. He also claimed that he'd never said he couldn't remember what happened that night. Those statements had been made by his lawyer, Carl Salzman. He said, quote, you're taking statements that were said by my lawyer. I never said I did or I didn't, end quote. Once again, this statement bugs me because, okay, that was what his lawyer said. His lawyer said, listen, he got punched in the head. He got punched in the

face. He was drunk. So he's got some memory loss. He doesn't really exactly remember a lot about that night. But then Corey's like, well, I never said I did or I didn't. So which is it? Like, did you or didn't you? Why can't you clear that up now? Do you have memory loss from that night or don't you? Like, why do you have to be so cryptic? I never said I did or I didn't. He can't just say, actually, I don't. That's just what my lawyer said. He's being so vague about it. And that's not like instilling confidence. I'm sure he has people in his ears, parents, his lawyer, and maybe he wants to speak because he's being thrown into this whole... Obviously, he's a big part of this whole thing. He was with her for most of the night. And I think anybody reading this or hearing about it would assume he had some intentions that were not necessarily in the best light,

but he's an interesting character. And, you know, the whole, I have a concussion. I don't remember. I do remember. Maybe I did. Maybe I didn't. You know, my thing about, about him is that, you know, I know he was drunk. The last time we hear about him, he was drunk to the point where he was throwing up on the stairs. So you would think, oh, you know, he went upstairs and he was, he's definitely not involved anyway, because he was passed out. That's not necessarily true. I've seen people where after they throw up, they actually feel a lot better. And again, this is just speculation, but there's a possibility he wakes up and goes, hey. Where's Lauren? Where's Lauren? I'm going to go find her. I feel better now. And maybe he crossed paths with her.

So I think that's why people haven't ruled him out. Or he's mad because he's been working this girl all night and he goes upstairs to puke only to find that his roommate has sent her over to Jay Rosenbaum. And then he's like, well, I'm going to find her. Like I've been, you know, working up for this all night. I bought her a bunch of drinks. Like, you know, she probably is still down for it. And maybe he goes out to look for her, but I completely agree. There's nothing to prove he went to bed and stayed asleep. And the only person that would be able to do that would be the roommate. The roommate went back there and said, you know, listen, gave an official statement to police saying, when I got back to my apartment, he never came down. He was up there the whole night. I will

testify to that, that I was up. I was coherent. I had a drink or two or whatever. He seemed somewhat sober, this guy. It didn't seem like he was off his- No, it didn't seem like he really drank that much at all that night. If they say, hey, and I'm sure again, they ask this, did Corey ever leave after you brought Lauren to Jay's? No, he did not. I can affirm.

I was there. I was in the room where he would have to walk by to get out. He never did. Or Michael Beth would say, well, I don't know. It was 3.30 in the morning where he would have to walk by to get out he never did or michael beth would say well i don't know it was 3 30 in the morning i went to bed i fell asleep yeah yeah yep so i think that's why he's someone who's still in the realm because it's because he was drunk when they last saw him doesn't mean he couldn't have still been out and about again short distances it doesn't take much to walk around you know and maybe run into her again yeah well lauren's parents heard that this dude, Corey Rossman, was like saying that they were harassing him and they clapped back and they said that it was ridiculous to claim that they were harassing

Corey since they'd never even spoken to him. He'd refused to sit down and talk with them. And they'd actually made plans to meet his lawyer in October of 2011, but the lawyer was a no-show to this meeting. Charlene Spears said, quote, Rob and I have never spoken to Corey Rossman. The Pride of Investigators have never spoken to Corey. So I don't know how it is we're harassing him other than asking him to talk to the Bloomington Police Department, all of them, end quote. When she says all of of them she means like all the people that were with lauren that night and um they they did want to sit down and talk to cory like of course they're going to want to get his side that he was with their daughter he refused to talk to them so it made them suspicious like if you have nothing to hide why won't you talk to us can you blame them no no not not as her parents you guys should be trying to help us as much as

we're trying, you know, as much as anyone. Yes. And, you know, even if they may not have spoken to Corey directly, Rob and Charlene Spear did not make it a secret that they believed some of the individuals who had been with Lauren that night knew more than they were saying. They've accused Corey Rossman and others of withholding information from the police and forming a pact of silence. Rob Spear also told the Westchester New York Journal News, quote, I feel if she had never met Corey Rossman, she'd be alive today. We still believe that Lauren may not have left Corey or Mike or Jay's apartment, end quote. So her parents are coming out and they're saying like they're not being

around the bush, really. They're like, we think they may not be being honest. We think she may not have even left that night. And yeah, of course, like maybe Corey wasn't talking about harassment from them. Maybe he was talking about being harassed by people due to their words or their allegations. I will say this, that quote is interesting because it's two different apartments and, you know. Yes, but the same townhome complex the same townhome but they're still kind of hedging their bets a little bit like hey listen we don't think she left cory and mike's but if she did then she definitely didn't leave jay's it's like you know so to me that says that they don't really have any information that we're unaware of that points them to a specific

person they didn't come out and say listen, regardless of what you're hearing, we don't believe our daughter left Jay's apartment. Or regardless of what you're hearing, we don't know if she even got to Jay's apartment. So it sounds like they might be kind of- They think that these guys made a pact of silence. Yeah. Yeah. They all colluded. Maybe they called Jay and he comes over and so they- Or vice versa. They put their story together. Yeah. And there and there's no no but there is surveillance not specifically at the townhome but surveillance leading up to getting there that would suggest lauren did in fact go over to jay's while being

escorted by mike though right i mean that's no there's surveillance that shows lauren and cory on the way from her apartment to the townhomes. Jay lives two doors down from Mike and Corey. So we know that she went to five North townhome, but we don't know what happened. We don't know what happened inside, how long she was in Corey's apartment, how long she was in Jay's apartment for. We know that Jay used his phone to call two people for Lauren. So we assume she was with him at that point, but we don't. And he said it. He's actually said it, right? I mean, he's confirmed it. But to the parent's point and to what you're getting across here is that's what Jay's saying.

That's what they're all saying, yeah. That's what Mike's saying. But is there a potential that none of that is true and that these individuals are working together? Yeah. I mean, that's possible. And it was maybe a fabricated story, right. Because I think the the devils in the details or the lack of details, their stories are all very similar. Like they follow the same path. But it's it's super, you know, general and vague. Like, oh, she was here. She was drunk.

So I brought her over to Jay's because he knew her. And then Jay was like, oh, do you want to crash? She said no. She wanted to go home. So I watched her walk away. Like it's's the same story but there's not a lot of details like well what did you guys talk about when she was there Jay or Mike after Corey threw up what did Lauren say was she worried about him was she did she want to go check on him like there's very there's a lot of details missing and if you think it, she was there for about an hour-ish probably. Yeah. And what's

happening in that hour that you're not saying? Because all of the stuff you told us would take about four minutes. I always say, and I've said it in other cases, it's not a secret if more than one person knows, right? And so with a situation like this, where there's a potential that Corey and Mike or Corey, Mike and Jay or Jay and Mike, however you want to slice it. Not Mike. I don't think Mike. Well, Mike was the intermediary, right? Like Mike was the one that allegedly brought her to Jay's.

No. Well, Corey got drunk. No, it was her friend David Rohn who brought her to Jay's. Mike is Corey's roommate. So Mike stayed in the apartment. Yeah. Got it. Got it.

So that being said, someone is more culpable. They're not all equally culpable in the eyes of the law. They would be, but someone was immediately involved in this or maybe multiple people. But you would think that just a hypothetical scenario, I'll just even give fake names. John and Joe have a woman in their apartment. They engage in sex with her or whatever. She dies due to her underlining condition that they're unaware of, but now they're panicking. They decide to go over to Steve and say, Steve, will you help us cover up this murder? Well, Steve did nothing wrong up to that point. So as soon as he agrees to help cover it up, he's now an accessory to murder. So it's a far fetch. It's possible, but then you'd have to look into how close these

individuals were. Were these the type of individuals where they were so close with each other going into this, that they'd be willing to jeopardize their freedom for, for these other people. And I mean, maybe, maybe, but I don't, there wasn't a, I played on a college baseball team. I was, they were my brothers. I can tell you right now, there's not a single person that if they came to me and said, Derek, I need help you know something happened i need you to help me get rid of this girl get rid of the body i'd be like get the f away from me dude you didn't see me that only happens in movies i feel like i feel like real people who commit crimes i'm ratting you out right they don't ask people who aren't like involved like you said culpability it bonds you

together because you're both screwed if you get found out but like they're not going to bring someone who had nothing to do with it like mike for instance and be like mike man we we accidentally killed lauren like help us hide our body no they're not going to do that because this dude has nothing to lose and you do so i i think whoever is part of this pact of silence allegedly they were all responsible or were present and had enough knowledge to be held culpable. Yeah. And again, I always say, like I said, I mean, you would think at this point someone would break. The person who has the least to lose, someone who may have just out of fear said something they shouldn't have, they're like,

listen, I'm not going down for murder and said whatever they got to say to police. And maybe that's what police are waiting for. You know, maybe they know more than they've told us. And they have a feeling that someone's responsible in this immediate circle and they're waiting for the, the, um, the weak link to have enough pressure on them to come out. But, you know, we also are speculating here where the police might think something completely different. They might, they might be under the assumption that this was a situation where she did in fact leave the apartment and there's an unknown individual out there or individuals who are responsible for the disappearance and or death of Lauren. I think that's why so many people are, you know, gravity. I think this is why you like

this case so much. Not even like, it's the wrong words, but you were fascinated by this case so much because it does seem like it'd be an easy one to solve because such a small proximity. And yet here we are 10 years later, not any closer to the truth, really. All right, let's take a quick commercial break and then I'll tell you what we do know. Okay, we're back. We know that police did take a DNA sample from Corey Rossman. They searched his car a few days after Lauren vanished, and he's denied any involvement in her disappearance. They searched his house, too. But he is the one friend of Lauren's who was with her that night that has refused to talk to her parents. So even Jay sat down with her parents and Jesse.

Corey has never agreed to do that. So even Jay sat down with her parents and Jesse. Corey has never agreed to do that. And Rob Spear, Lauren's father, he feels that the story of Corey losing his memory is probably not true. And he said, quote, I think it's a case of self-preservation, understandable human condition. I'm not sure of anything. But what I do know is that there has been a complete lack of cooperation. And he was the person who spent the most time with Lauren in the last hours of her being seen, end quote. And it's funny because Corey does have like

some pretty strong lawyers and he claims that Lauren's parents are harassing him and they are making very bold statements in the media. But Corey's never sued them for like defamation or libel or anything, which I think is interesting because he's been pretty volatile with some like reporters and media who have tried to like talk to him about it. And he's been like, you know, don't come here. Don't come here again. Like I'm calling my lawyer, stuff like that. He's got his lawyers there. So you'd think if if what was happening was truly harassment and they were saying things that were just completely off the wall and not true. Do you think that Corey may have brought a suit up against them to make them stop doing it? Is he

just a nice guy and he doesn't want to do that to Lauren's parents after they've lost their daughter? What do you think? Am I off base? I don't know. I mean, the lawyers, I mean, optics, I'm sure a part of it where they're like, listen, they're just speculating in the public eye. We were not going to pay much weight to it. And we we're just we want this to go away for you father literally said if she'd never met cory she would still be alive today like this these are bold statements right i mean but that could be taken as if she didn't meet cory she wouldn't have been drinking she would have been using drugs and she would have been more conscious of her surroundings and therefore she wouldn't have been in a condition that she could have been taken advantage of i don't if they had came out and said cory we believe

cory killed our daughter that's a different story i think they probably have brought suit against them if they felt like but again then again cory would have to testify under oath and they'd have to prove that what was said is untrue well on june 15th bloomington police department released another grainy surveillance photo now this is the second of the two photos, the still shots taken from the surveillance video, which we have a lot of surveillance video allegedly of Lauren walking around, but these are the only two pictures that we see. And it's a photo of a white pickup truck. They said this truck appeared to have been seen on surveillance twice the night Lauren went missing. And in one picture, the truck appears to have something in the bed just behind the extended cab, something that many people believe could

be the body of a young woman. And when I read this in the article, I was like, nobody thinks that. And then I went on Reddit. Yes, they do. They do. Like they've said like, oh, she's laying on her side. Her knees are curled up. You can see her blonde hair. I personally can't see that in the picture, but some people claim that they do. Now, this vehicle was a white four-door Chevy Silverado or Colorado that was seen heading west on 10th Street towards Morton Street at around 4.14 a.m. And then it's seen again at 4.24 a.m. heading west on 10th Street again. Now, six days later, Bloomington Police Captain Joe Quolters revealed that the truck was not connected to Lauren's disappearance, and there was like a discrepancy on the cameras that recorded the footage that showed it had

driven by twice, but it had only driven by once. So they identified the driver, they identified the business that the truck belonged to, they interviewed the driver, and they combed the truck for evidence, but they didn't find anything. Qualters also revealed that they were exploring the possibility that Lauren had overdosed on cocaine after receiving a tip pointing them in that direction. On June 19th, police investigated a tip about a foul odor that brought them north of Bloomington to State Road 37. Here, they found a patch of newly disturbed earth, but upon further investigation, they determined the earth had been disturbed due to recent utility work. As June and July passed, police continued to question the men Lauren had been with that night and the apartments of both Jesse Wolf, Lauren's boyfriend, and Jay Rosenbaum, Lauren's friend and

the last person to see her alive, those were searched. So this kind of becomes a pattern. These tips come in, they follow them, and then it turns out to be nothing. And on August 16th, 2011, the Bloomington police and the FBI descended on the Sycamore Ridge landfill near Terre Haute, Indiana. They were searching this landfill because it was the location that garbage from the Bloomington area would end up. So apparently they got like this grid and they talked to the waste company and they were like, okay, if the garbage came from this area of Bloomington, like where would it end up in the landfill? And then they went to that area of the landfill and approximately 20 to 30 law enforcement personnel combed through 4,100 tons of garbage over the course of nine

days. Once again, they found nothing. Now online I read this may have been prompted by the fact that apparently some eyewitnesses saw a couple guys like throwing a bunch of trash away in the days after Lauren went missing at the townhomes where Jay Rosenbaum and Corey Rossman lived. So this could have been the reason they went there or it could have just been a completely different tip. But once again, these things come from like people who live in Bloomington and, you know, kind of had their ear to the ground to the local gossip, but we don't really know if they're true. Either way, kudos to them for doing what their job is, obviously, but that's a tough job. Awful. And that's a tough job. And I think we can all take away from this that regardless of what you

think, they're doing everything they can. There's no doubt about it that they're exploring all options and all possibilities, big and small, when tips come in. So, I mean, it's not for lack of effort that this case hasn't been solved, at least from the outside perspective. That's how it works. I agree on this one. It looks like they really did everything they could in this investigation. It's just they haven't found it yet. 4,100 tons. Oh, my God. 4,100 tons. And just 20 to 30 people too. Yeah, that's a lot of trash. Nine days of being like up to your waist in garbage. Yeah, and I'm sure they had like skids.

I don't care if they had stuff to protect. I don't care. I'm saying machinery. They definitely didn't go through that with like a shovel. Oh, you don't think they went through it with their hands? No. That's the way I envisioned it. Yeah, they're swimming through it like that guy Duckworth when he jumps into the coins yeah no yeah stephanie they weren't doing that so no

they weren't doing that no i'm sure once they pulled out piles they were kind of like going through with some but they're looking for a body or bags or certain things i mean they're they're dividing it with heavy machinery 4100 tons they wouldn't have done it in nine days with 30 people. 4,100 tons. That's what I was thinking, but man, I was like... Yeah, no, they're not swimming through the trash, Stephanie. That's good. I'm happy for them.

While this was happening, ground searches with volunteers continued in Bloomington, and shortly after this, Lauren's parents posted their thoughts on their blog, stating, There is no reason to think the people Lauren was last with wouldn't do everything in their power to help us find her. Alas, there is deafening silence. The silence compounds our frustration, our desperation, and our grief in not having found Lauren. It threatens to be our undoing, but make no mistake, we will never give up. It is impossible to explain, as we continue to search for Lauren what the experience of having a missing child is like. There is no explanation for why this

happened. Imagine learning one of the most important people in your world has disappeared and there's not enough information available from friends and acquaintances to find them." So I think they're kind of saying the same thing that I'm saying. Even if these guys were cooperating and giving their statements to the police and taking all these private polygraphs, there's just so many things not said, like so many other details that probably happened that night that they just didn't reveal for fear of getting in trouble, for fear of, you know, maybe ruining their reputation, whatever, what have you. There's things they're not saying. I agree with that. I think there's definitely things that occurred that night that would not paint them in a good light. Drug usage, drinking, things that were said, things that maybe transpired between Corey

and Lauren. I mean, again, we're not getting the privilege of hearing from Lauren. How many times did Corey come on to her that night? You know, this is kind of the PG version. You know, how many times was he pressuring her, you know, trying to get her to do certain things? How many times did he come on to her at the bar? We don't know.

Did Mike come on to her? Did Jay come on to her? You know, we're only getting their side of the story, which obviously is going to be advantageous for them. They're not going to hurt themselves. And again, without Lauren or her body, it's kind of hard to discredit them. For example, if Jay said, oh, you know, she came in, we talked and she wanted to go home, so I sent her on her way. Well, if we ended up finding Lauren and there was his DNA under her fingernails, well,

Jay's got problems, right? I mean, or Corey's got problems. So not having that, absent of that, it's hard to discredit them at this point when it comes to the specifics of what occurred between them and Lauren without any type of evidence to compare to what their statements have been. Yeah. And there's some rumors, once again, local rumors that a couple of those kids may have been, you know, doing some selling of drugs. So and that's not like, oh, this is like a like high volume drug dealer. It's so common, so common for kids in college to sell drugs. It's not something they're doing for a career. It's just, you know, whatever, they do it. They supply the drugs to their friends and their friends tell other friends.

But it seems like one or more of these young men, and I'm not going to give their names, and you can find it online if you want to look, but I'm not making those allegations. But it seemed like one or more of them was kind of involved in selling drugs. So maybe they didn't want that to come out. They could be hiding something other than a murder. We could be sitting here and saying they're kind of suspicious. They're not being as open as they could. Corey's not even talking to Lauren's parents, and there's no reason why you shouldn't. And we think this looks suspicious, but it might just be that they're just covering or staying silent to protect something else that they don't want found out. And it's also, I think, something that's even more obvious than that,

which is as much as their world, Lauren's parents have been affected by this, losing their daughter. There are individuals who are involved with this story because their involvement with Lauren that night who may have absolutely nothing to do with Lauren's disappearance and or death. And it's no secret here that there have been people who have been convicted of crimes they did not commit based on circumstantial evidence, just based on the appearance of what it looks like. That is a fact. And it would be a fear of mine if my son or daughter was connected to the disappearance of this woman, this young woman. And if I knew my son or daughter was not involved, I would be very apprehensive about letting them speak to anyone because of the fear of them being connected to something that they didn't do. So you have to understand that these kids, these young people, some of them may be involved,

but there's also a possibility that none of them are connected with the actual incident that resulted in Lauren no longer being here with us. And if that's the case, as a parent, your number one responsibility is to your child. So I know that's hard for Lauren's parents to understand. And I, if I were them, I'd be in the same boat. I might be doing worse than them, but being removed from it, I think looking at it from an outside perspective, you can see how on the other side of it, those parents and their lawyers would want to protect their children out of fear of them saying something that could implicate them in a crime they didn't commit.

That's a reality. And I'm not giving them an excuse, but I do think that could be a major reason why they're fearful to say anything because they know it's going to be recorded and held against them, even if they make a mistake in what they say. You want to take our last break really quick? Yeah, we probably should. Let's do that. Then we can finish up part two for sure. All right. So in September of 2011, the head of the private investigation firm that the Spearers had hired to find their daughter went on a good day in New York. So this guy's name

is Richard Bo Deedle. We talked about him very briefly in part one. went on good day New York. So this guy's name is Richard Bo Dietl. We talked about him very briefly in part one. He's a former New York City police detective who founded his own investigation firm after retiring. Now, he wasn't like on this case directly. He had guys who were, but he did go to Bloomington and he tried to like talk to the local police there. And when he was asked if there'd been any friction between his guys and local law enforcement, Bo Dietl said, quote, friction? I thought I was talking to Gomer Pyle out there, end quote. And he was talking about Bloomington Police Chief Mike Dykoff. So the comparison to Gomer Pyle, it's not a flattering one. It refers to a character from the Andy Griffith TV show. I'm probably dating myself, but it's kind of just like a goofy kind of figure that nobody really

took seriously. But Bo Dietl said that the Bloomington PD would not let the private investigators in on the investigation at all. Bo later had to make a public apology saying that he felt bad that he had said that, and he sometimes opens his mouth without thinking first. That's the New Yorker in him, because I do the same thing. And the Bloomington police chief also made a statement that he and his team had sat down with the private investigators, but a police partnership with a private agency is unethical and contrary to standard police practice. Standard policy is to not reveal pertinent information to anybody outside of law enforcement. And Chief Dykoff said, quote, as he did not get the information he came seeking, I can only surmise that is the reason he described me as Gomer Pyle.

I don't agree with the characterization, but to use a time-honored phrase, maybe that's how they do things in New York. End quote. So much shade, but so correct. We are savages. And listen, I've personally dealt with this on many cases. And unfortunately, it is policy, but it's also an ego thing. You know, let's just call it what it is, whether it's law enforcement or something else. The crime occurred in my jurisdiction. We all want to believe that I'm capable of solving it because all cops are created equal no they're not they're not and you have some new york detective come down

arrogant probably right well yeah i mean i don't even know who bo deedle is but maybe he's like a super you know i might google him after he's all over like he's always on he's always giving interviews and stuff like he's okay so i'm assuming he's got a shit i'm assuming he's like he's got some he's got a resume and so i'm sure there's a small portion and stuff like he's. Okay. So I'm assuming he's got a shit. I'm assuming he's like, he's got some, he's got a resume. And so I'm sure there's a small portion of them where it's like, even if we could give you the information, we're not going to, because we'd be basically be acknowledging that we can't do it without you. And again, Bo probably came in and you're like, what do you guys got?

You know, he came in probably out like arrogant, like, well, come on, I'm this big city guy and you small town cops you know and here's here's the reason why i agree with law enforcement in this situation we're talking about september of 2011 hasn't even been a year yet i agree and we're not including anyone at this point and now if it was september of 2021 my argument to them would be, well, I gave you 10 years. Do you have an announcement coming soon that I'm unaware of? Did you solve it? Oh, okay. So that means you're kind of at a standstill, right? It's active, but is it really active? Still, it's still at a standstill. I've heard people have made multiple FOIA requests

and have been shut down even 10 years later. And they will be because it's open. So that's how you can avoid the Freedom of Information Act. But again, Bo coming in there immediately after, and let's be honest, that's because the parents are wanting to question their work. They're obviously going to fall back on their policies and procedures, which protect them and being forced to give that information. And that's what happened here. And they basically in a nice way said, hey, we'll sit down with you, but for a cup of coffee, you're not getting anything out of us. We got this. They didn't, but they said they did. Well, Lauren's father, Robert Spear,

he told the press that they were able to talk to both Jay Rosenbaum and Jesse Wolf, but Corey Rossman had refused to meet with them. Jay Rosenbaum's lawyers, Luke Meyer and Boyles, told the press that their client had allowed authorities to search his home and car. He provided a DNA sample, he'd taken a polygraph test, which he'd passed, and he'd been upfront and honest with Lauren's parents when he talked with them. Jay's lawyer said, quote, some of it they admitted they may not want to hear, but they've been pretty realistic, I think. End quote. So maybe Jay was telling them stuff about Lauren.

You know, maybe like she was a big drinker. Maybe she was on drugs. Maybe that's what he was telling them. And apparently they were open to it. I don't know. I don't know. I think I think at that point you want to hear the truth, you know. And again, we don't know. But listen, that point you want to hear the truth. And again, we don't know,

but listen, kids are in college. They're experimenting. They're doing things that they may not do for the rest of their life, but this is the time if you're going to do it, it's going to happen. And she could have been experimenting with drugs. She could have been experimenting sexually. We don't know. So these are things that I'm sure are tough for any parent to hear. But if you really are concerned about solving the case, you got to hear it all, the good and the bad. Yeah. But Lauren's parents, I think that they kind of were happy that Jay had sat down with them. But in December of 2012, they told ABC's Katie Couric that Lauren's friends were stonewalling

them. Robert Spear said, quote, I'm angry. We've been stonewalled to some extent by the last people to see Lauren. Despite their claims of doing whatever they could, the fact of the matter is they refused to meet with us except for one of the boys. They refused to take a polygraph, a police polygraph, which we feel is important for a number of reasons, one of which is to help narrow down the field of people who really know what happened to her that night, end quote. Robert Spear said it was possible that Lauren could have been drugged at Kilroy's sports bar, and this then incapacitated her, although I feel like she probably had enough alcohol to do that all on her own.

But it is possible, right? Someone was buying her drinks for her. Someone was supplying her drinks. She's already drunk it's possible somebody not saying who could have slipped something into her drink hoping to kind of speed up the process absolutely i mean there's nothing more to say i mean it's really that simple and um you know considering how drunk she was um was she that drunk she'd been drugged though because she really starts right she really starts looking bad when she leaves Kilroy's after Kilroy. Yeah.

We don't. And that, again, that's why for whoever is involved, if this was something that happened earlier in the evening, well, you definitely don't want them finding Lauren's body at that point. Right.

Because you're going to, the autopsy is going to reveal that she had something in her system, like a ketamine or something like that. That's not something she took. This is not cocaine. This is not Klonopin. This is something that nobody knew her to, you know, take voluntarily. And so some people who were with her that night would have some serious questions to answer. And so, yeah, it could be a reason why Corey's not speaking with them. Absolutely. It could also be that he knows the parents think he did something wrong and he's not going to do anything voluntarily that could hurt him in the long run.

And that could be, he might want to for all we know. I don't think he does, but he could want to. And his high powered attorneys are saying there is 0% chance of you doing that because it's only going to end bad for you. I mean, he could really think like, you know, they already suspect me. They already think I'm guilty of something. I personally want to keep my distance. I don't want to make it worse or give them something that they can twist or turn on me. Like I just rather kind of cut it off. Exactly. And again, he's a young adult. He's got parents. He's got lawyers. They're all probably

telling him the same thing. That's what I would tell my son or daughter. A hundred percent. These parents are looking for blood. They want to find out who did this. And if they got their sights set on you, it's not going to be a good experience for you. They're trying to nail you to the wall. They're not trying to prove your innocence. They're trying to prove you're guilty. Yeah. And at the end of the day, Corey had just met Lauren a couple days prior. He didn't know her. He didn't know her family. He doesn't care about them. Like, I'm sure he's not over here like, oh, I hope you suffer. But at the same time, he's thinking self-preservation. Like Lauren's father said, I have to worry about myself first. And on January 17th, 2012, Lauren's family celebrated what would have been her 21st birthday.

And the Spears said something similar. They told the media that they didn't believe the rumors that Lauren was doing drugs. They believed that she had just surrounded herself with people who did not have her best interests at heart. Robert Spears said, quote, I think that's what's so unfortunate, that she found herself with people who did not place her safety as any kind of priority, and those circumstances led us to where we are today, end quote. Charlene and Robert said they wish that each young man would sit down in front of them and explain why they had been so silent about Lauren's disappearance, and although they heard that a few of them had taken private polygraph tests, they questioned the legitimacy

of the results. Jesse Wolf, Lauren's boyfriend, had talked to the Spears, but after graduating in December, he went back to New York and completely cut off and ended any communication with Lauren's family, which was a shock because they'd kind of all been close. He was in their lives for like three years. He'd been at their family gatherings. Lauren had been welcomed by his family. And the person that the Spears seemed most frustrated with, however, was Corey Rossman. And they wondered out loud why he didn't just leave Lauren at her apartment after the altercation in the hallway. And I think we kind of know why he didn't leave her there, but- It's our opinion, but yeah.

Yeah. We, I meant we, you and me know why, or think we know why. We think we know why. Yeah. And we don't know cory but i know i was a young college kid at one point men yeah i was there i was there i was there and you know if you're if you're already that much committed you're trying to you know if it's under voluntary terms you know not if i drugged her beforehand but yeah there's a reason why you would want to be persistent in your, I'm trying to do this the right way. Not just give up. Yeah. You're not going to take the first no, right? We can be very hard to motivate, but in certain areas, guys, they find it. They find it within themselves to not take no for an answer, literally.

Well, I think that's definitely what happened. I think that's definitely why he didn't leave our apartment. There's no other reason why you would want to be responsible for a drunk girl other than you're trying to have sex with her. thousand dollars and the tips kept coming in but none of them led to Lauren and then Jesse Wolfe's parents finally spoke up and they had a lot to say which apparently they waited to unleash until the two-year anniversary of Lauren's disappearance. Jesse's mother Nadine Wolfe she called the Spear family liars and she claimed that her son had passed a private polygraph but he would not be taking one with the Bloomington PD because they could not be trusted. Nadine Wolfe said, quote, I don't think they're very adept at anything except giving kids driving tickets.

I don't trust them, period. End quote. This came in the wake of the Spears publicly calling for Jesse and the others to take a polygraph exam and questioning whether or not Jesse was actually at home sleeping when Lauren went missing. Jesse's father, Alan Wolfe, claimed his son had been texting both himself and Lauren that night. And after Lauren disappeared, Alan Wolfe flew to Bloomington to check on Jesse. And while he was there, Alan apparently asked Jesse to drive him over to Corey Rossman's townhouse. And Alan said he knocked on the door and asked for Corey.

And when he was face to face with Corey, Alan Wol Wolf claimed he confronted him and then saw fear in his eyes. I don't know what the point of this whole story was. I don't know why Alan Wolf would be wanting to go to Corey Rossman's house and be confronting him unless he thought that he was responsible for what happened to Lauren. I'm not sure. It's a weird story. Or, or, or Jesse, when he got to his son's apartment, Jesse said, dad, Lauren was out with another man that night, this guy, Corey. And actually my buddy punched him in the mouth because they were heading into her room. And it just so happens that they ran into him. That guy was with her all night and he was all over her.

They were drunk. And this guy may have looked at Alan Wolf might have looked at lauren like a daughter i mean they had been together three years he might have been like well i'm gonna go confront this kid right now then right about about that like about him being with lauren and she's drunk and maybe trying to get her into a apartment yeah what happened what happened i want to know and this kid might have been like oh shit you know because again he might have had i'm sure he did i'm sure alan loved lauren you know like again his son loved her and, you know, therefore he loved her.

And I would probably do the same if I was, my son was in a similar situation. I go out there and go, what happened? Talk to me. It's dad, dad and son. Talk to me. Tell me what happened. Dad, listen, I was watching the game. Lauren told me she was going to sleep.

I text her and tell her, Hey, listen, if you wake up, call me. And then all of a sudden I'm getting a call from, what was the kid's name? Zach. Zach Oates, I think. Yeah. All of a sudden I'm getting a call from what was the kid's name? Zach. Zach Oates, I think. Yeah. All of a sudden I'm getting a text from Zach. He's telling me that he sees Lauren with some dude two hours later and they're drunk going up to her apartment. He actually fought the kid. Who was the guy? This kid, Corey. I don't know him that well, but he was with her and they were, they were clearly going into her room. That's the last. Yeah. And he's like, well, we're going to go see him right now.

Then we're going to go see him right now then we're gonna go see him right now i'm gonna i'm gonna find out what happened and so that that's that's a plausible reason why he had incentive to go over there like i'm gonna you know maybe we figured he was gonna beat the shit out of the kid not the right thing to do but you know temper is you know sometimes emotions get the best of you well both alan and nadine wolf jesse's parents they say that the spear family are lying about jesse not being cooperative and that he took that private polygraph just two weeks after Lauren went missing and it had been given to him by a retired FBI polygrapher with irrefutable credentials. Nadine, yeah, that's what you said. Like nobody like that's who's got like actual fake that.

So I definitely think Jesse passed his polygraph. And there's, by the think Jesse passed his polygraph. And there's, by the way, guys, pull out a polygraph exams. We know that they're subjective and you know, you've got to take them with a grain of salt, but there's no polygraph examiner who, I mean, they're all different. They're all different levels of experience and probably their ability to read it, but it is a subject. It's not a science, right? There is some subjectivity to it. And you know, whether it's an active FBI agent or a retired one, they're all the same just because that person's giving it on behalf of the police department doesn't make them any better. So having a retired FBI polygrapher

administer this test, and I'm sure wrote a statement afterwards stating, I gave this test and he passed it. That's because that person is willing to testify under oath. So for me, this is as good as the police department doing it. Yeah, I agree. And then obviously, I forget, it was a reporter, but he asked Nadine Wolfe, why did you give Jesse a polygraph if you think he's innocent? And she was like, well, you always want to be 100% sure. You can't be 100% sure. So we gave it to him because we wanted to be sure that he wasn't with Lauren that night, he had nothing to do with it so that we could move on and like defending him and keeping him safe. And Nadine said that Jesse was devastated because he lost the love of his life.

But then she said, quote, this poor little girl is not with us today because of her drug abuse, end quote. So apparently the summer camp that Jesse and Lauren had met at had asked Lauren to leave because of drug use. This is Nadine Wolf's version of events. This is what she claims. I can't really find the statement supported anywhere else. I don't know. I'm sure the police looked into it. But what can be proven is that nine months before Lauren went missing, she was arrested for public intoxication.

So this seems to be something that she did often kind of went out it's a pattern and she'd done it before without you know like obviously got arrested but she'd never been like hurt or you know went missing or anything so she probably felt very safe and uh nadine went on to say quote if jesse was guilty of anything he was guilty of taking care of la, who had some serious drug issues. She would abuse to the point where she would black out. Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents, and she said, if you do, I'll break up with you. My son took care of her for two years while she was in college. The one night she went out without him and did what

she did, unfortunately, cost her her life. End quote. That's rough's rough man it's a slippery slope it's a slippery slope for us too because you have a young lady here who um potentially is no longer with us right she hasn't been found in 10 years presumably she's she's dead and you don't want to get into the business of shaming someone who's not here to defend themselves. But I will say this, these are allegations by Nadine. However, it would be very easy for investigators to confirm or discredit this behavior by talking to people in her inner circle. Maybe not people directly connected with this case, but individuals who have been her friends for the last two years. It would take maybe a day to figure out who Lauren was as far as drug use. Is this something she was known for? And there

would be multiple unbiased witnesses who would be like, yeah, no, she was a party or she was constantly into these things or that it wouldn't take long and they're not going to put that out publicly because regardless of what happened regardless if she had an issue um it doesn't give anyone the right to take advantage of her of her if her alleged substance abuse um to the point where she's killed or or kidnapped we don't even know if she had a substance abuse problem like we don't exactly but it's it's irrelevant it's irrelevant in the sense it might have contributed to her being unable to defend herself um but i i can see how nadine again she she has a son a child too protecting her son she thinks she's protecting her son yeah i don't i don't think it's necessary to put these things out there publicly. It's not going to make it any better for her son. We have to be very careful because it's out of respect for

Lauren and her family and that's why we're doing it. So it's one of those things where it's all hearsay, but I'd be willing to tell you guys who are watching and listening to this, that these allegations about substance abuse and her history at summer camp and this public intoxication, all these things have been confirmed or discredited by investigators to determine what, who Lauren was at that point. Part of your job as an investigator is to learn your victim. And I can tell you that they know who Lauren is at this point. And they know if she was dabbling in substances on a regular occasion or is Nadine just talking completely out

of her, you know, you know what? I just can't see how somebody with a serious heart condition like that could be doing drugs regularly without some like negative side effects or some sort of hospitalization or some sort of scare. Like it just it's very tough. Like maybe she was drinking. Maybe that's what she's referring to. But she does talk about I mean, she says substance abuse, but she does say like drug drug use at some point. So I mean, I mean, this is also like what, 2011, 2012. They could be talking about weed. You know, they used to call weed a drug back then. It's not, but that's what they used to call it. So they could be saying she's smoking weed and that's why we're saying she's into drugs. I don't know, but it makes me uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, it's a slippery slope

because it is something that's important for investigators, not necessarily important for public consumption. Well, of course, Charlene and Robert Spear had a response. They said they were appalled that the Wolves had defamed their daughter on the two-year anniversary of her disappearance, calling it shameful and hurtful. I agree. The timing was not super good. They also responded to Corey Rossman's further allegations of harassment that he made to Indianapolis Monthly, the Spears said they weren't sure how they could be harassing him unless he considered them asking him to talk to the police as harassment. So Corey's continually saying that they're harassing him. And it's not going to be long after this until the Spears family files a civil lawsuit against Jason Rosenbaum,

Corey Rossman, and Michael Beth. And we're going to talk about that as well as the many theories that have come out about Lauren's disappearance in the final part of this series, case, the final part of this case. We have a tendency to do these multiple part as I think people expect it by now, but I think it is a good spot to stop because our next part is the civil civil lawsuit. You know, as we sit here and we kind of ended on a bad note with these allegations about Lauren, what's interesting, again, doesn't mean anything relative to the case, but Charlene and Robert didn't necessarily deny the allegations being made by Nadine. They just said that they were appalled that she would choose to do this on an anniversary,

her two-year anniversary, right? Is that fair to say? I agree. I thought that too. They didn't deny it then, but previously they had. They said, to our knowledge, she wasn't. I'm sure they know a lot more by now though. That's what I was going to say. Maybe after they made that

initial statement they found out some more things maybe from talking to jate rosenbaum or or whatever and that's why they kind of like sort of skirted the direct issue of whether or not she was using drugs but i mean that it sucks it's your daughter the two-year disappearance of your daughter or two-year anniversary of your daughter's disappearance you got to open up the newspaper and see that shit like that's awful it was really bad timing like and it should have been like i hate to see families and stuff like torn apart and fighting like this in the media like y'all should sit down and talk to each other but everybody's so afraid and wants to save their own ass and they're not going to do that and they completely lose like human kindness which is like these people whether you think they're not going to do that. And they completely lose like human kindness, which is like these people, whether you think they're unfairly painting your son in a bad light,

they may be whatever, but their daughter is missing. So while you have the luxury of defending your son, your son who is with you, their daughter is gone. And they're going to do anything to try to bring something out of the woodwork to find out where she is. So to like make those accusations against Lauren, who's not around to defend herself, who's not around to refute or confirm. It was low. It was low. It's not like, what's her name? Jesse's mother. I forget. Nadine was like, oh, Charlene Spears, a bitch, you know, like now Charlene can be like, no, I'm not. And I'm here to defend myself. It's like she's going after Lauren and making these claims that even if they were true, Lauren's parents probably didn't want that out there because there are a lot of people who are going to look at that and say, well, she was she was stupid. She was using drugs. She was getting drunk. She deserved what happened to her. There's people out there who will say that. I will say this, and then I want to go back to Nadine because I had a comment about her, but I will say this. For two years, Jesse's family has been hearing about how people have been uncooperative and the family's been inferring things that this case could be solved if people were more willing to cooperate. And they knew this information about Lauren for the last three years as their son dated her. Maybe. You don't know if the information is true.

Maybe. But if this information is true and they've been experiencing it through their son that his girlfriend had a substance abuse issue, they've been quiet about it and they finally got sick of it. Not saying it's justified. emphatically disagree with Nadine on. And I'll reread the quote, the last part of the quote, um, the one night she went out without him, Jesse, and did what she did, unfortunately cost her, her life completely disagree with you, Nadine. And I'll tell you why, even if she goes out every single night and gets high and drunk every single night, taking out the situation, the scenario where she was with someone OD'd and they just chose not to call for medical assistance or whatever that resulted in her death. If she was taken advantage of by someone because of her substance abuse, alleged substance abuse or alcoholism, that is not her fault. Um, and so she, it,, it did not cause someone out there. If they took advantage of it, they cost her her life, not her.

She should be able to do that every night in a perfect utopian world and be perfectly safe, but that's not the world we live in. So I definitely disagree with her there. I think it was uncalled for. It was not tasteful. It was set out of frustration. But once you say it, as it goes with anything, you can't take it back. It's out there.

I have a lot of takeaways from this, but I mean, should we wait for the next part? What are you thinking? I mean, we, you know, there's so many things running through my head. What do you think? Do we say it? Do we just not, not to get into theories, but just as far as like what, what you take away from this, where we sit now? Yeah, I think you should share.

I mean, I'm a dad with two daughters and you can only do so much to protect your kids as they get older. And I know one day that Tenley and Peyton are going to go off to college. And all you can really do is just be there for them, allow them to be open with you. And if they're going through something, be there for them to support them and try to be involved with them as much as they'll allow you to be. Not saying that Lauren's parents did anything wrong. And also, if you're someone who has children in school

or will be going to school, reinstill in them that regardless of what you're doing, whether we approve of it as parents or not, do it with someone you trust. Buddy system. Unequivocally, do it with someone that you, I would tell Tenley, and I hope she never hears this podcast because I'm going to deny I said it. I would tell Tenley, listen, Tenley, you know, I don't want you using drugs, but I will not

sit here and tell you that I've never experimented. And I only ask that if you're going to try something, you don't do it with someone you just met. You don't do it with someone who you have a crush on and you want to impress them. You do it with a friend that you've been with on multiple occasions. And you trust that if something goes wrong or you have a bad reaction or something, that this person's going to take care of you. And I'm not, again, not saying that's what she did because there could be a real situation here where Lauren was drugged without her knowledge. But I just, I always think about these cases and what we can do to protect people in the future. And that are some

of the, that are some of the things that I take away from it. The buddy system sounds like a old cliche, but it never goes out of style. And it's something where when you're hanging out with individuals that you've just met, you don't know what they're capable of. And the more you drink or hang out with them, your perception of what their intentions are is skewed. And so I don't know if anything could have been done to prevent this from happening, but I would like to think that regardless of the outcome of this case, we as a community, as a Crime Weekly family can take some things away from this. So we decrease the possibility of it happening again to someone we care about or someone that we know

could potentially be in a similar situation. And that's my takeaway. I know we're going to get into it a lot more, but it's just a terrible situation because relationships are ruined and we're sitting here with a family. You talked about this before. We're sitting here with a family that I don't know what's worse, knowing what happened

and knowing that they're deceased or not knowing at all. Is better than not knowing, I think. I agree. I agree. I agree with you. I don't know if everyone agrees with us, but I definitely agree with you there.

Well, that's our question for this week. Man, 10 years. Let us know. What do you think? It's such a morbid question. It's a morbid question, but I think it's something that most true crime fans, most true crime listeners have thought of. It's better to know than to not know, because every day you're wondering, is my child being tortured today?

Is my child crying for me today? That's awful i can't even it's just freaking me out thinking about it and i do have a daughter who was in college you know and i i she's graduated right just recently but like for the past for the past three years man she was in college and i was like every freaking night i'm like texting her like what are you doing tonight you know and i always just told her, buddy system. And buddy system does not mean, I'm sorry to all the men out there. I'm not trying to be a jerk. But as a young girl who's a teenager in college, buddy system does not mean buddying up with

the dude from your chemistry class that you see every Wednesday and you think you're tight. Buddy system means a a girl, okay, who's not going to take advantage of you or try to roofie you. A girl who's going to be like, hey, get away from her, buddy. If things get too rough, someone you can trust, like your down-ass chick over there. It's not like just some random. As a male, I concur.

Yeah, and that's not saying like, I'm not saying that all men are rapists or all men are like sex abusers, but I do know that like when you look at the stats, some of them are. There's very few women rapists running around out there. All right. Raping is something that men happen to do. And I would just like it to not happen to my daughter.

So that's the way it goes. And, you know, like Derek said, have that conversation. Be open about drug and alcohol use, especially as your child becomes more independent, hits the age of 18 where they're technically an adult and they're technically allowed to live by themselves. Let them know that that's acceptable, that you'll talk to them about that. You might even experiment with them a little bit yourself. That's the kind of mom I am. Oh, Jesus. Yeah. And again, this holds true even if Corey and Jesse and every name you mentioned, Jay, I'm

not going to run down the list, have nothing to do with this. Yeah. But her being in a situation where she was highly intoxicated or under the influence of narcotics, if you have that friend that you can rely on who's, let's just call it the DD, the designated driver, the designated walker that night. You're not walking home alone. Yes. Bingo.

Bingo. So things didn't work out the way you planned. We're going to head home now. Even if you don't want me with you because you're belligerent and you're acting crazy, I'm going to walk 15 feet behind you. I've done it. We've all done it. I'm going to walk 15 feet behind you. So you have that person where if you're going to be doing things that you don't normally do, even if they're just a wingman or a wing girl, stay together with people that you know you can trust on and will make sure you get home safe.

Because if Lauren got grabbed by some random person driving by, which is possible, completely possible, that's less likely to happen if she's not alone. So these like prowling predators, they're not looking for people in pairs

or groups. They're looking for single women who seem to be intoxicated on their own. Nobody sees a bing, bang, boom. It's done. Stumbling. Now you don't have to grab two people.

You know, they don't want to grab two people and you don't have any eyewitnesses. It's just a fact. Stay together. Buddy system, strength in numbers. Please, please. Couldn't agree more.

I think that's a great, a great spot to end and take it away from this. Our parents, our college, we have a lot of college kids that will listen to these podcasts too. I see it on social media all the time. Guys learn from this. Don't just watch, listen to these podcasts because that's like your guilty pleasure. Listen to them because you can remember these stories and, and, and don't let Lauren's tragedy be something that's just a story you listen to. Let it be something that resonates with you and that you remember the next time you go out i think that's really important i think

lauren's family would advise you to do that as well yep and we we are off to nashville so we'll see you guys next week with the conclusion of this case thank you so much for being here take care bye