Crime Weekly - S1 Ep39: Mystery on Highway 18: Asha Degree (Part 3)

Episode Date: September 3, 2021

Check out Vodacast for this episode! -- http://feed.vodacast.com/56618488/Crime%20Weekly/38:%20Mystery%20on%20Highway%2018:%20Asha%20Degree%20(Part%202) “She’s my baby, we just want her back”, a statement that seems so simple to most of us, but to the mother of nine year old Asha Degree, it was a simple plea made from a desperate heart. When you wake up and find that your small daughter has vanished into thin air, there isn’t much you can say, because there isn’t much that you know. In the United States, more than 99 percent of children reported usually make it home safe, so it wasn’t illogical to have hope that Asha would have been one of those children, but as the years passed, and no new evidence came to light, it became clear that Asha Degree was in that much smaller percentage of missing children, the ones that never do come home. Today on Crime Weekly, we are revisiting this case, and hoping that someone out there knows something that can bring peace to the family of Asha Degree, who to this day still searches for their daughter, and have not given up hope that she might still be alive. Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

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Call 800-333-4KIA for details. Always drive safely. Limited inventory available. hello everybody welcome back to crime weekly i'm stephanie harlow and i'm derek lavasseur today we are completing the asia decree case i just want to mention that if we have been saying her name wrong, if we've been saying Asha instead of Asha, we apologize. However, we did listen to some news broadcasts and some podcasts, and they kind of said it both ways, depending on what you were listening to. So we kind of just went with what we thought was right. If we were wrong, we're very sorry. We were in no way trying to be disrespectful. We're going to talk about theories today. There's a lot of them. I also grabbed some theories from the comment section

because you guys had some great ideas. So we are going to talk about that today. Derek, do you have anything you want to say before we jump in? after all the research we've done. So I have a theory. I definitely have some opinions on the things that were found in her book bag. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. We'll talk about it. I think some of what we're going to say tonight, we'll cover some of the things that you guys said to us. I know there was one message we had on Instagram where someone laid out basically their theory and they said, are you going to talk about this? And I just said, make sure you check out the next episode. So yeah, we should get right into it.

So the theories are wide ranging. They're multifaceted, and sometimes they sort of overlap. Most of them center around Aisha either running away or being lured away. But they all seem to function on the belief that Asha left the house herself, that she was not abducted from the home by someone because the door was locked behind her when she left. There was no signs of forced entry. There was no signs of a struggle, and none of her family members heard anything, including her brother, O'Brien, who slept in the same room as Asha. Now, the police have said that they

believe Asha left the home of her own free will, and her parents have also confirmed that. So that's kind of the main theory that we are functioning on. Do you agree with that? Couldn't agree more. Yeah. I do not feel, and again, there were some people who said, you know, how do we know? How do we know that she wasn't abducted from the home? We don't. We don't. But I think we can say with a reasonable degree of certainty, based on this fact that there was no sign of struggle, that the family, which was a smaller duplex style house, didn't hear a single thing or any sign of struggle while they were sleeping,

leads us to believe that she left under her own free will, especially when you consider the fact that she had a backpack with her belongings, all when you consider the fact that she had a backpack with her belongings, all that stuff. So not 100%, but I would say pretty damn near close to 100% certain. So the first theory we're going to talk about is an interesting one. It's the whipping boy theory. When she went missing, Aisha and her class had just finished reading a book called The Whipping Boy by Sid Fleshman. So it's a story about adventure, courage, and friendship focused around two main characters, Prince Horace and his whipping boy, Jemmy.

Now, for those who don't know, a whipping boy was a boy that was educated alongside like a young monarch or a prince in early modern Europe. And basically the relationship was super toxic and dysfunctional. But if the prince acted up or did something wrong, the whipping boy was the one to get punished. And Prince Horace, he had a tendency to act up in order to get attention from his father, the king. And he misbehaved so much that he was given the nickname Prince Brat. So due to this, although

Jemmy has been given a great education, he's beaten several times a day, and he wants to leave the castle and be free, even if it means living on the streets, where he spent his early childhood as an orphan. One day, Prince Horace decides to run away, and Jemmy goes with him, and together they encounter dangerous, notorious outlaws. They meet interesting characters, some friends, some foes. And in the end, it is Jemmy, the whipping boy, who single-handedly comes up with a plan to get the prince safely back to the palace. Many people have looked at this book and wondered if Aisha had wanted to escape from the palace, aka her home, and go on a little adventure of her own like the

prince and Jemmy did. Maybe she had planned to do this with another classmate or a friend from school, but the other young boy or girl had gotten scared when faced with going outside in the middle of the night in the rain when it was dark. In The Whipping Boy, Prince Horace decides to run away on a whim because he was bored and he wanted new experiences. And we know that Aisha herself was pretty sheltered, protected, kept away from the outside world. So she may have been curious about what was out there. You know, she may have been inspired by the adventures

that Prince Horus and Jemmy experienced. And when Prince Horus returns to the palace and his normal life, he's changed for the better. Due to all the adversity that he faced on the outside, he becomes a better person, a more responsible person, a kinder person, I suppose. It's an interesting theory. It's often brought up. Before we even talk about why it is or isn't valid, what do you think about it? I think it's really interesting. And I don't know how deep I should go right now because I know we're going to go through these different theories. And I do think some of what my theory where it's going to go is somewhat in line with this, although I'm not basing it off the story.

But I do think there's some truth to it. I do think kids learn from movies and books and magazines. And they do take things from that. And they try to apply them to their own lives. So is it possible? Absolutely. I think it's a very good theory to base your foundation off of as far as what happened to Aisha throughout that evening. Like a jumping off point. Yeah. I mean, there has to be a motive, right? There has to be a reason. If we're to believe that Aisha left under her own free will, again, I'm trying not to get

into my point yet. I want to save it, but there has to be a reason. She didn't just come out of nowhere and decide in the middle of the night, I'm going to leave or run away, however you want to look at it. There was something that was kind of the jumping off point for that. I have a little bit different of an opinion on it. That may be a little bit of a controversial take, but I know it's not too controversial because a lot of you feel the same way. So I'll leave it at that, but that's where I'm going with it. Well, as we know, Aisha was afraid of thunderstorms. She was afraid of dogs. She had many fears that you would think would logically prevent her from heading out alone in the middle of the night. And in The Whipping Boy, the adventures that Prince Horace and Jemmy have, they're not necessarily like fun adventures,

okay? They get kidnapped by thieves who want to like, you know, do something bad to them. They have to rely on their wits to get out of very dangerous situations. And Aisha was known to become scared by movies and dark music videos like Thriller. You know, sometimes she would wake up at night with nightmares and she would crawl into bed with her brother or sleep on the floor next to his bed. And at Aisha's age, psychologically, logic hasn't really set in yet about irrational fears, you know, such as something lurking in the darkness or monsters hiding under the bed. A child's imagination is far too vibrant at this age to be able to separate what they create in their minds and what's actually real. According to healthychildren.org, 43% of children between the ages of 6 and 12 have many fears and concerns, such as being left alone in the dark and fear of animals like large barking dogs. These are

actually two of the most common fears amongst this age group. I also personally feel that Aisha was a lot like myself as a child. She loved to read, but I think at this time in her life, she would have been content to explore the worlds that she was reading about and experience adventure like vicariously through these stories rather than be bold enough to slip away from the safety of her home and her family in the middle of the night to experience them firsthand, especially alone. If she hadn't planned to go with a friend or a classmate, I don't see her doing it alone. It

doesn't make a lot of sense that this would be her main motivation to leave. And I'm not saying that she didn't leave of her own free will, but I don't think reading a book in class would have really been the catalyst for a middle of the night runaway adventure. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that it could have been a factor. It could have been something that maybe was the tipping point. Maybe she was having these thoughts. And after reading this book and hearing this story, it finally gave her enough of a motivation to try to do the same thing. But I do think there's a deeper meaning. I do think there's something more to this story that none of us really know for sure, but there has to be something deeper than just a book that would lead her to leave in the middle of the night when we

know that she has these fears. Yeah. And I've said it myself, as a 37-year-old woman, I'm not going out at two o'clock in the morning when it's dark. I'm not walking anywhere. I'm still afraid of the dark. Not inside my own home, but I'm afraid of the unknown in the dark out there. Night is just different, man. The night is just different. I love the nighttime.

I'm a night owl, as you know very well. But the other day, I was emptying out some grass clippings. I didn't get a chance to do it during the day. And I usually dump them down in the woods near my house. And I've done it a million times. But I had to do it after dark. And it wasn't even like late. It was like 8 p.m., but it was dark out.

And I'll tell you what, you just, your senses are heightened. You hear certain things that you never heard before. Like, I remember, I usually go deep in the woods to dump it because I'm trying to be respectful. And I was about 15 feet in. Now, I'm going to be honest. I didn't go all the way this time. I stopped about halfway. And I said, you know what?

I think right here is good enough because I started hearing things moving in the leaves. And I'm like, you know what? I can't see. So to your point, I know I say that all the time. It's going to be a shirt. That's a don't come for me. I say to your point all the time. I'm realizing as you guys are pointing out.

Thank you. I do think as a 37 year old man, if I feel that way, as I can imagine how a 10 year old would feel and how their senses would be heightened, especially if they already have this underlying fear. Yeah, same. Sometimes I would take the garbage out at night. I run, run to the garbage, open it up, throw it in. And before that lids even close, I'm back in the garage because it's scary.

Like you just don't know what's out there. And considering what we do all the time, like, you know that these cases sometimes happen. Like, oh, Sarah was just going out to throw the garbage out and she got like grabbed from behind. I swear I bring like my pepper spray out with me. I don't even want to step foot outside at night and I just don't see why she would have unless she knew there was like another safe place waiting for her. Unless she knew she was going somewhere and somebody was going to bring her there and she wouldn't be outside wandering alone and lost. Another theory is that Asha just got up and ran away. She wanted to run

away. She planned it. She packed her bag to prepare for it. It's even possible, and I was thinking about this, you know, remember Asha told her family that she was taking a nap that night when they got home from church and lunch at her aunt's. Maybe she wasn't sleeping at all. Maybe she just told them that so she would be left alone, and she went and she packed her book bag and stashed it away somewhere so she could grab it later that evening. Or maybe her book bag was still packed from the sleepover at her cousin's house the night before. Maybe she did lay down and take a little nap because she knew that she would be up late that night. Because many people have pointed out that it would be very tough for

Asha to wake up at a certain time in the middle of the night without setting like an alarm of some kind, which O'Brien would have obviously heard. So if Asha was able to get up so easily at around like 2 a.m., maybe she just never actually went to sleep that night. Maybe she only pretended to be asleep when her father checked in on her after getting home from work. However, Asha doesn't really match that runaway profile. According to FamilyJRank.org, studies have shown that runaways are less adjusted than their non-runaway peers. They have lower achievement levels, they're more frequently depressed, they have poor family relations, and they engage in more delinquent activities. From what we know of Asha, she doesn't really check any of these boxes. From what we know, right? There could be a lot going on behind the scenes, a lot going on under

the surface that we don't know about. But from what we know, she seemed to be a happy, healthy, well-adjusted child. The adults at her school described Asha as very well-adjusted, with a kindness and compassion for others. She was smart. She was very achievement-oriented. As far as we know, you know, she had good family relations and she wasn't a depressed child. Runaway children have also been described as impulsive loners who are prone to excessive aggression when frustrated because the act of running away, it frequently involves feelings of intense alienation between children and their families. Current studies have shown that the primary cause of youth homelessness is family dysfunction in the form of parental neglect, physical or sexual abuse, family substance abuse, and family violence. When children run away from

home, it's usually because they no longer feel safe there in their home. So it's not so much that they're looking for an adventure. Typically, children like to stay home where they feel safe because they do have these irrational fears, which Derek and I have both agreed, the fear of the dark is not irrational, okay, when you're outside at night. But once again, as far as we know, Asha's home life was good, even if she was a bit overprotected. But there have been people who wonder if Asha was being abused by someone in her life, either a family member or a trusted adult. Now, I definitely want to elaborate on that, but let's go to a quick break first. Did you know that many products for pregnant women do not have their own clinical trials for safety or efficacy?

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to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. So we're back from the break. And again, it's not just a few of you that think something more was going on in her home life. A lot of you. We got a lot of speak pipes, got a lot of comments and a lot of DMs. One of these speak pipes that we received was actually recorded with like auto-tuned. Like an anonymous voice app sort of thing. Yes. So they actually, this individual was someone who was molested as a child around the same age as Aisha. She said she shared a lot of the similar personality traits that Aisha had as far as a do-gooder, wanting to always be perfect, all these things. And she said that she was being molested and she stole a couple dollars from her parents and ran away from home. Very similar to some of the things we're hearing about Asia.

Doesn't mean they're the same, but I don't think, I think we can talk about it and not disrespect the family because we're not going to go any further than what I'm saying right now, because we just don't know. And the people that do know are law enforcement officers, the federal agents, people like that. I'm sure that the parents have been interviewed multiple times, family members, relatives, the brother O'Brien. But I don't think it's a far reach to say it's not normal behavior for a child that's happy at home, loving their life, doing well in school, playing sports to just up and run away from home for no reason at all. If there wasn't a fight that night before where maybe something was said that she wanted to kind of prove a point, then there has to be something deeper than that.

And I think for a young girl to pack a bag and be willing to leave in the dark of night to walk along a highway when cars are going 60, 70 miles per hour past her, there's something there. There's something deeper there that would give her the courage to do that. What that is, I truly don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if we were a fly on the wall at home, um, that there's more to the story in no way, shape or form. Am I accusing Asia's parents, brothers, aunts, anyone of anything?

It might not even be an immediate relative living in the house. It could be someone like a teacher, someone from their, from their, their church, someone, a coach. But in that case, you would think that if Asha felt comfortable, she would maybe tell her parents. I don't know. Sometimes kids wouldn't, they'd feel like they're like ashamed and maybe it's something they're embarrassed to tell them. I don't know. We will truly, um, never completely understand because Asha is not here to tell us her side of the story. I hope one day she can. Um, but to me, there's something more. And I've had so many cases

as a detective where on the surface, everything seems perfect. The kid's doing well in school. One of the most talkative students, friends with everyone. And the teachers don't know this, but I'm responding to that house that that child lives in once or twice a week because it's a domestic violence situation between the parents every time dad gets drunk. But you wouldn't know that just by seeing the kid at school. So I just think there's more. There's something more. There's a piece of this puzzle, a major piece of this puzzle that we just don't have. Well, we touched on this in part one of Asha's case. Even though law enforcement and the FBI officially ruled out Asha's parents

as suspects very early on, some people online obviously still suspect that maybe things at home were not as rosy as the degrees made it seem. These people point out that although there is no evidence pointing to the parents, which is absolutely true, there is no evidence, no tangible evidence that says that Aquila and Harold did anything. Even though there's not that evidence, they cannot ignore that it is statistically probable that one or both parents were involved in Asha's disappearance. Now, it is possible that Asha was being groomed by someone in her life that she knew, such as a family member or an adult from school. And grooming is when someone tries to build a trusting relationship with a child. And they do this with the goal of sexually abusing that child once they have gained their

trust. It is the most despicable practice. So many people just in the YouTube comments from part one brought up Asha's basketball coach, Chad Wilson. A lot of people, I don't know if you saw this, but. I did. Yeah, a lot of people were like, what about Chad Wilson? What about Chad Wilson? You know, for the record, I looked everywhere.

I couldn't find any specific statement from law enforcement that Chad Wilson had been cleared or ruled out as a suspect. But they really don't mention anybody specifically getting ruled out besides her mother and her father and O'Brien. So it could mean nothing. I mean, they're not over here telling us, hey, Asha's next door neighbor isn't a suspect. You know, so why would they say anything about Chad Wilson? Now, I do also understand that Chad Wilson did seem very fond of Asha.

He talks about sitting behind her while she watched O'Brien play his game. And he was like putting a towel over her head and making her laugh. Personally, for me, having small children who've played on, you know, team sports, I think this is normal behavior for a coach, especially one who really likes kids and who takes their role in that child's life very seriously. Without any proof or evidence at all, such as like someone saying that maybe Chad Wilson had a tendency to be too familiar with Aisha or the other girls. I don't see how we really could explore this theory fairly. But it's, I just, I don't know, like people are saying he's too familiar with her in the comments. People are like, oh, why was he sitting behind her? Why was he doing this? I really don't want to get to a place where we make really good-hearted, good-intentioned adults feel strange about being a positive presence in a child's life because they're afraid they're going to get accused of being like child molesters or being creepy. You know, we see this a lot lately and I

understand why we see it because obviously we know that there are horrible adults out there who do horrible things to children. But we can't take every little act of kindness and say, oh, this is an example of him being too familiar. This is an example of him being too close. Because some people just really like kids. I really like kids. And whenever I'm with my nephews or a friend's kids or any kids, I'm always playing with them, chasing them around. I love kids. I like playing with kids because it makes me feel like the world is good again. So I don't want to take something that could be very innocent and well-intentioned and turn it into something evil and gross without having any evidence to do that. But what do you think about that?

Well, first off, as I mentioned in last episode, I am a coach and I coach a girl's basketball team, my daughter's basketball team, and I coach a girl's softball team. And the girls are around Asha's age. So I can tell you firsthand, the girls become very comfortable with you. And, you know, in their happy moments, they want to hug you. In their sad moments, they want to hug you, especially when your team is close. My softball team was very close. And, you know, I was always very cognizant of optics because of that reason. I'm a, I'm a, I'm a grown man, um, hanging around with these little girls. They're touchy feely, you know, they all, they want to grab you and all these things. So you, you know, parents are watching and, you know, parents are very vigilant as they should be. So there are certain things that can be taken out of context. So it is something to be careful of. And I'm not going to sit here and say that you as a parent shouldn't be watching for anything that does look like it's going a little too far. But I think there is a happy medium there. And who are we to say what that is? But I do agree with everything you said. It is a tough thing to balance, especially when you're a male coaching females.

Yeah. And secondly, as far as Chad's concerned, again, I say it all the time. This is the investigator in me. But Stephanie and I don't have the case file. There may be other things, tangible things, exculpatory evidence that completely rules out Chad Wilson. It could be something as simple as an alibi, Asha's disappearance. He was with a woman that they were able to go and corroborate a story. I mean, we don't know

because we're not privy to that information. But even more on just a surface level, this is kind of diving into my theory a little bit, but I'm realizing I'm not going to be able to avoid it completely. If it was somebody grooming her, I don't think that person, whether it was a church member, whether it was a pastor, whether it was a coach, whether it was a teacher, whether it was a relative, I don't think that this would be pre-meditatively set up. And then this person would tell them, this adult would tell Asha, hey, but I want you to walk 20 minutes on the highway to meet up with me they would meet him somewhere near her home yeah and and the highway is only minutes away from her house so

to me if she was being groomed or this was pre-set up to have her come meet this person they would have picked her up almost immediately far enough away where it would have been closed off nobody would have saw it but i i don't think this person would have said, hey, I want you to take that highway and walk all the way down it towards the school, and I'll grab you at some point. It doesn't seem like it would make a lot of sense. Yeah. And I said something very similar when I was making my notes for this. But before we move on, I also want to say that I think it's important that children have other trusted adults outside of their family who they feel comfortable with, because if something's going on in the household, they need to have somebody to go to that they

trust and they feel safe with so that they can tell that this is happening. So I know there's going to be people in the comments that say I'm naive. I am not naive. From all the things I have read and seen, I am not naive, but I do still want to try and see the good in people. I not suspect that everybody is a dirtbag. So as far as that goes, it's not hard to imagine that Asha may have been communicating with some trusted adult in her life who instructed her of what to do that evening and where to go, as well as possibly what to pack. As you said, and I'm thinking the same thing, if that's the case, though, why would this person ever walk so far down a highway that's still going to be traveled by truckers and early

morning commuters at this time? You know, so there's still going to be like eyewitnesses. There's still going to be people who are seeing her and can report back to the police, which is exactly what happened. Why wouldn't they have told her to go someplace closer, more private where she could be picked up? Exactly. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. And just to double back, because I really want to make sure we drive this point home. A lot of you have said that there's something more going on in the home, was it abusive relationship? And the reason why I'm doubling back to this, cause I know how sensitive it is. And I couldn't imagine even having this conversation be heard by Asha's parents, but we're trying to be objective here. Um, I don't think it has to be even as deep as molestation. It could be as surface level as because the parents were so controlling because Asia was

going to school and hearing about the level of freedom that her teammates and her friends had and how she couldn't even do certain normal things that she felt were like common things for girls her age to do. That could be something in totality where she says, I'm out of here. I don't feel like I can do anything. It could be that superficial. It doesn't have to be to the point of someone she cares about was molesting her and therefore she felt like she couldn't stay there anymore. It could be, but I'm just saying there's a whole gamut of things that it could be. And with a child this young, I don't think it has to be that severe for them to decide based on after reading the story, after hearing, talking to their friends that they're going to, you know what, I'm going to prove a point and I'm going to go stay at a

friend's house for a couple of days. Yeah. Well, we don't really know what she could or couldn't do at home. We know she didn't have access to like a computer, but she was nine. In my opinion, that's good parenting. I'm a horrible parent then no i mean it's 2021 it's completely different back then i actually think i need to cut back to be honest i i'm very aware of it 100 my kids are on the kindle way too much but i'm sorry i cut you off it's okay i forgive you thank you anyways um that's good parenting to not let your nine-year-old just be on the computer at this time in this year when the internet was the wild west i mean even when i was like 14 i was on the computer finding myself in some chat rooms that if my kids were in those chat rooms i would lose my shit today finding myself in these chat

rooms and being like what's going on with my innocent little 13 year old brain because i was very sheltered and naive at that age but i what I'm saying is we don't know what she could or couldn't do, right? They didn't seem to prevent her from doing things like hanging out with friends or going to sleepovers or playing basketball. They just seemed to be very protective of what she was doing with the outside world. So it doesn't seem like she wasn't allowed to do a lot of things, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, the only thing that throws me off a little bit, again, no knock on them at all. The fact that Aisha wasn't even allowed to open the door when she recognized her aunt,

she had to go get permission to do so. It makes me wonder how protective were they of Aisha hanging out with friends? Was she allowed to have friends over the house? Was she allowed to go to friends homes on her own? If they were that protective of Asha, as far as her being able to open the door for her, her aunt, my gut tells me that she might not have had the opportunity to go and sleep over at friends homes on a regular. I'm sure if we were able to look deeper into it, look at the files, maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe she was, but just based on that statement, which always stuck with me since episode one about this case is that that was, that's a very intense and a very defensive way of living. And if their parents are treating their own sister like that from

mother's junior, own sister like that, could that, could they be even more strict about hanging out with friends? I don't know. But even if that's appropriate, which they're allowed to raise their children when they want to raise them, the child may look at it as too much and they could still leave on their own. I mean, what's your take on that? You're smiling. You're going to judge me, but I don't let my kids answer the door, even if it's someone I know. They are not allowed to open the door, even if they're like, oh, it's Tuta Sammy. And I'm like, I don't give a shit if it's Tuta Sammy. There could be a guy behind her with a gun. Okay?

We don't know what's on the other side of that door. You will not be opening that door. I am an adult. I'm five steps away. When I get to the door, I'll open it. So, yes, it is a very defensive way. Do you let your kids sleep out? Like at sleepovers and stuff yeah yeah yeah uh with family members or people i know like if i know their parents i don't let my kids go to people's

houses if i don't know their parents no yeah not yet they're young though you know they're young i would love to know i would love to know what the policy in the degree home was as far as having friends over going to hang out at friends homes you know that might shed some light on some things because it might be a simple answer like yeah she slept out all the time we had friends over and then it's what i'm saying right now is irrelevant we don't know but either way we also don't know what she was allowed to do or not allowed to do. But and, you know, she's nine. So what is she seeing that her friends are doing that she's really not allowed to do? You know, that's where I'm coming from. When I was 15, I was upset because I wasn't allowed to go to the mall.

My mom didn't want me to go to the mall with my friends at 15 because she didn't want me to get like abducted. So all my friends are going to the mall and I was mad about it. But you know, at the same time, I didn't want to run away. Never know. Everyone looks at things differently. And again, and as you said earlier about this book, this story, she might've been feeling that and then reading this book might've just gave her an idea. So it could be a collaboration of different theories that we're going to discuss tonight. Well, let's take a quick break and come back. Did you know that many products for pregnant women do not have their own clinical trials for safety or efficacy?

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Ritual doesn't just have your back. They have the receipts. Get 25% off at ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Okay, we're back. So I want to keep going down this grooming path because it does seem to be one of the major theories, and I completely understand why. And let's examine the red flags of grooming and whether any of them are present in Asha's case. So a child who's being groomed might have unexplained gifts, right? Just have

like clothing or jewelry or something that their parents are like, where did you get that? Asha was in possession of a Dr. Seuss book that allegedly did not belong to her. She had a New Kids on the Block concert t-shirt that allegedly did not belong to her. She had a new kids on the block concert t-shirt that allegedly did not belong to her. And she also had a picture of a little girl, which also did not belong to her. So if Asha was being groomed, she would not have wanted to talk about where she got these items with her parents, even if they had asked. Children who are being groomed will stop telling their parents about their day or asking for advice. They'll become a lot more withdrawn. They'll start spending a lot more time in their rooms alone. They'll often talk about a particular adult that they're getting close to and they want to spend

time with, but they'll want to meet with this adult alone. And then they refuse to talk about who they were with or what they were doing. Some other red flags is maybe a child will start skipping school or sporting activities. They'll spend less time with their friends or change friend groups suddenly, and they're no longer talking to their family members about what's going on with their life. And anyone can be involved in grooming, a man, a woman. They can even have child helpers sometimes, which is just a whole other level of horrible. It could be a friend, a stranger, a sporting coach, a social worker, a teacher, or someone from the child's place of worship. And on a side note,

I found out today that Asha had attended the same church since birth. So many of these people would have known her since she was a baby, and this would give them plenty of time to get close to her and earn her trust. Now, once again, we are not saying that anyone from Aisha's church groomed her. What we're saying is it's possible. And if you're going to go down the path of the grooming theory, you would obviously then have to go down the path and look at all the potential people in her life who could have been doing this. But from what we know, Aisha's behavior hadn't changed much in the weeks and the months before she went missing. She'd been acting completely normal. She was still going to school, still doing well. She was still going to basketball, still doing well there. She was still interacting with her friends at school and her family at home. Yeah, I mean, I'm glad that we keep saying

it. And I know you guys get on us for repeating ourselves and qualifying, but we're not in this particular case, we're not doing it for litigious reasons. We're doing it out of respect for the people close to Asha, because frankly, they take top priority to us. We love you guys, but we have to operate under the assumption that someone that knows Asha personally or her family personally may listen or watch this so that we're going to do that regardless of whether you guys like it or not. So we're putting out different theories there. There are also some there are also theories out there. I discussed this with you before recording.

You emphatically disagree. And I tend to agree with you, but there have been some people in our comments and our DMs and our speak pipes who think maybe O'Brien had something to do with her leaving. You had a boy and a girl living in the same room together, sleeping in the same room together. Could there be something there? Why are we not going to address that? Because we have nothing to go off of. And I think it's disrespectful to even go deeper than that for the sake of O'Brien and his mother and his father. So if there happens to come out to be truth to that, that's not going to be something we're going to discuss on Crime Weekly. But just to give you a chance to respond, I did mention it to you and you were almost frustrated by it. So tell us why, because we didn't get into it too much on the phone.

I mean, of course it's possible. I wouldn't have even brought it up now because I just think it's awful. I love that kid, okay? Hearing him talk about his sister, he was 10, first of all. She was 9, he was 10. That's right, yep. He's going to be playing the long game here where 10 years after, he's still talking about how it kills him to think that he could see his sister on the street and not recognize her. He could hear her laugh and not

recognize her laugh. He loved her. He walked her to school every day holding her hand in the school even though I'm sure his friends gave him shit for it. They were close. Yes, it did frustrate me. I'm not saying it's not possible. It is something I have a hard time not only believing, but considering. I know that there's going to be people out there who call me biased, but I love that kid. He's a sweetheart. He seemed like a really good kid, a really great brother. And I would just say, I hope to God not. That's all. I think that's a good way to end it right there is we just hope that there's no truth to it. And if it comes out that there is down the road, you guys can call us out and say we didn't cover it. But again, ultimately, we want to take

something from these cases that can benefit you or the people you care about. We're not going to sit here and speculate about someone who life, his life has been changed forever. And to kind of add salt to the wound just doesn't make sense to us. So I think we mentioned it. That's really where we're going to leave it. Right. I mean, is that fair? Yeah. And I mean, just like the Chad Wilson thing, there's nothing to even cover. It's a theory that you have when these kids go missing and you're just trying to grasp at every available straw and you're looking at every available possibility. But every available possibility doesn't mean every available probability or plausibility. Like some theories are just obviously more plausible than others. Yeah. But we touched on it and I just, I, I, I refuse, I refuse to believe it. Don't talk about my boy O'Brien. I love that kid, man.

I think we can leave it at this and this is a good way to leave it. We all agree that something transpired in Asha's life that resulted in her wanting to leave home. What that is, we don't know. And I would go as far as saying the only people that do know are Asha and the person that was involved or people that were involved. And that's why we don't know, none of us, and probably including law enforcement, know to this day because Asha is currently missing. And the person who did this, clearly, if something happened that shouldn't have happened, has a guilty conscience and knows they could be held responsible for this. And

they're clearly not going to say anything. So unless Aisha comes back to us, we might never know what transpired before she decided to get on the highway that day, which is unfortunate. But that's the reality of the situation. And many people point out that when Aisha left her house that day, she took the exact same route as her bus would take to school. And there are some reports that claim she had packed her basketball uniform. So was she so upset about losing the game the day before that she just really couldn't get it out of her head? You know, she is a perfectionist. If she is somebody who's always trying to aspire to be better, maybe she decided to walk to school and practice in the gym. So Falston Elementary School, it's about four and a half miles away from Asha's home, which was located

at 3404 O'Crest Drive in Shelby, North Carolina. On a map, you can see that the school is a straight shot up Highway 18 from her house. There's one other way to get from Asha's home that the school is a straight shot up Highway 18 from her house. There's one other way to get from Asha's home to the school. That's via Royster Road. But that brings the distance further to almost six miles. So if Asha had decided to walk from her house to the school using Highway 18, it would take her about an hour and a half. And if she decided to go that Royster Road route,

it would take another half an hour. So it would take two hours for her to get there. Now, school would have been in session that morning. So maybe Asha thought that she would just get to school early, walking herself there instead of waiting for the bus so she could spend some time before classes working on her basketball game. Maybe that's why she packed extra clothes, right? Clothes that did have a Valentine's Day theme since the day that she was, you know, maybe walking to school to play extra basketball would have been February 14th, Valentine's Day. She packed her favorite pants with a red stripe. She packed a red vest. She seemed to have been prepared to dress for that Valentine's Day holiday. And she brought her house keys so she could get into the house after school like she did every day. So did she go there dressed in one set of clothing with her basketball uniform to change into her basketball uniform and then an extra set of clothes to change into for school that day?

And she just didn't want anyone to know that she was doing that. She kind of wanted to take it upon herself. Maybe she thought her parents would be proud if she took the initiative to like, you know, polish up her basketball game. We don't even know. Her parents could have said something to her after the game. Like, you know, you just have to practice more. You have to practice more and you'll be better. And then there won't be an issue. And she might have taken that to mean, well, I have to get on that right away. Yeah. You know, I appreciate the theory. But to go back to what we've just spent like 15 minutes talking about how, um, cognizant her parents were about who she was frequenting with, who she was talking to, who she was hanging out with, where she was. Um, I believe it's fair to say Asia would have known that her, her parents would have been extremely upset with her if she decided to leave the house in the middle of the night to go work on her game at the gym, which wouldn't even have been open at that time in the morning.

So I appreciate that. So I agree. But if she leaves at what time was she seen walking on the highway? 3.15, 3.30? Yeah, something around there. So if it takes her an hour and a half to get to school, she might show up right around 5.30. That's when the administrators get there. That nine-year-old girl. Yeah. It's crazy. She might've just like knocked on the door and been like, hey, can I come in and practice? What are they going to say? Like, no, you have to stay outside,

little girl, and we'll lock you out. Even if you take that at face value and say, yeah, that's possible. She timed it out because she'd never made that walk before, but she knew how long it was going to take her to walk there. Even if you believe all that, if you operate under that assumption, she still knew that the risk worth reward is going to be really bad. Like her leaving her home, not telling her parents to just simply go work on her shot. Her parents are going to probably kick her, you know, take her off the team after that. So is it really going to be worth it to go work on your shot when you're not going to be on the team in a week because you're going to be punished for the rest of the season. Cause that's what would happen to my daughter for sure. So, uh, you know, I think that she knew when she left that house, what she was

doing was wrong and, and didn't really care. The reason she was leaving was more than her being, um, in trouble by her parents. But there are items in that backpack that lead me to believe certain things. the keys were definitely something i thought about there were also some other items that i want to dive into when we get done going through what we're going through but um i think this theory as far as i'm concerned doesn't hold a lot of weight based on the structure that was placed around asia so to think that she innocently walked all the way to the high school the school um and without telling her parents i just doesn't seem like the way um the high school, the school without telling her parents.

It just doesn't seem like the way Aisha or her family conducted themselves. Yeah. But I mean, the way she just walked out of her house in the middle of the night without telling her parents, it doesn't really add up and kind of coincide with her previous behavior either. And I know some type A personalities who don't think that far ahead. They're like, well, I don't care. This is on my main priority list. Get better at this because I don't think that far ahead. They're like, well, I don't care. This is on my main priority list. Get better at this because I don't ever want to lose again because I hate the way losing feels. So I'm going to do what it takes. And then not thinking like, oh, but I'm going to get in trouble. And it's possible. I don't know why else she would pack her basketball uniform, really.

No, listen, there's definitely, if that happened, I could tell you right now, she would 100% be off the team. So she'd be working on her shot from her bedroom for the rest of the season. But I say that with love, Tenley, if you ever hear this episode, which you won't. But before we keep going with the theories, let's take a quick break. So there's also the theory that we sort of touched on last episode that after Asha left her home that morning for still unknown reasons, we don't know why she left. She was struck by a car on the highway accidentally. This makes a lot of sense because it was still dark when Asha would have been making her way down Highway 18. There's no street lights on that highway. The only light you would see on the

highway would be coming from headlights. And at this time, there really wouldn't have been many headlights. However, if a motorist had hit ASIA going at 55 miles per hour, which is the speed limit on Highway 18, you would think there might have been something left behind. There definitely would have been something left behind. So there's a blog called the Finding Asia Degree blog, and it states that they believe there would have been a lot of items scattered, such as books, tiny hair clips, pencils, etc. And everything would have had to have been found in the dark by the person who hit Asia and collected so that nothing was left behind to find. And nothing was found on the highway. Even though law enforcement combed it thoroughly, they combed the side of the highway.

There was also no sign of a motor vehicle accident, no broken glass, car parts, no skid marks, no blood. The blog says, quote, go ahead and envision the torrential downpour, the fogged windshield, and the dark night with no streetlights. All of a sudden you hear and feel you've hit something. You're not sure, but you think you've hit a person. You can't afford for

people to see you on the road, so you must work quickly. Imagine trying to find things. You have no idea what or how much of what you're looking for, so you're trying to madly pick up everything in the downpour of rain while moving in near complete darkness. And because this was an accident, you are not equipped for the task ahead. Just visualize cleaning up after messy children. You'll need all sorts of stuff. Soap, plastic bags, scrubber, broom, bucket, sponge, rags, etc. You cannot afford to let even a food stain settle on the pavement. You don't know what you are cleaning there in the darkness. You keep turning your headlights, assuming they still work, on and off to see. This theory seems more and more kind of a stretch, don't you think? So let's consider you, the driver, succeeded in cleaning the highway, nearby woods, grassy yards, gullies, gutters, and dormant cornfields of the tiniest hair,

bow, and stain that penetrated those crap remnants. Now you are left to pick up the injured person cleanly without any trace of yourself efficiently, time-wise and effectively. No trace of the injured to keep from being found out. It's going to be daylight any minute. Did you get everything? Everything? End quote. What do you think about that? I think it's very well said. I talked about it last week where you would expect to see yaw marks and you were like, oh, what's that? You know, just for anyone who doesn't know, because I just assumed it was like a common term, but it really isn't. Yaw marks, you'll see in a lot of accidents where we're trying to do what's called accident reconstruction. You can use the yaw marks. It's basically a skid mark to determine how fast the vehicle was going at the time when the Blake, the brakes were applied. And this is usually when the car spins out of control and it leaves, you know, that big skid mark that you're used to seeing. So you would expect to see that, but that could be countered by this person didn't see Asia and therefore never hit their brakes. You would also, you know,

just to counter some of the points made in this, I'm trying to be respectful again here, but there have been situations where a small child or a small adult is struck by a large vehicle and they literally are thrown like hundreds of feet. They don't even touch the pavement. So it would limit the amount of trace evidence left behind. And then the final factor, which again has to be considered because we're only human beings, 18 highway 18, it's a long stretch of road and every single square inch of that road would have to be searched and analyzed because it could be something very minor that was left behind that would have indicated that there was an accident that occurred there within the last 24 hours. And it could be easily missed because I don't think

they conducted some type of chain where they just walked along highway 18, looking at every single, every single piece of this pavement to ensure nothing was there unless it was like very obvious. I don't know if they would see it. Finally, they haven't came out and said this publicly, but I would think even if Asia was struck by a vehicle and never touched the pavement, but was thrown into like the wooded area, that there would be damage to the backpack that has been found. Um, she would have slid on it. She would have rolled on it. There would have been some type of damage that would suggest, um, she may be landed on it, something like that. Could that be the case? And we just don't know. Yeah, it could be. But I almost think that at this point, if the FBI or the local PD had found the backpack and it was severely damaged or it had road rash on it, that they would have come out

and said, it is our belief at this point that there was a hit and run that occurred involving ASHA and that there could be a vehicle that we're looking for at this point. So the fact that they didn't say that, I'm under the assumption that the backpack was still in very good condition, which you wouldn't expect to see if it was on her back when she was struck by a vehicle. So wait, it felt like the first couple of points you made were saying, no, I don't agree with this. It's very possible that it could have been a hit and run, but then it felt like that last point you said was almost like, no, I don't think it was a hit and run. Well, that's just it because I want to make sure that I remain in the middle. There are

things that would suggest it is possible. What do you think though, if you're not remaining in the middle? How possible, how probable is it? Based on everything we know, I think that she was picked up. And we're going to get to that in more detail. I do not believe she was struck by a vehicle because not only would she have to be struck by a vehicle, but all these things that they mentioned, yes, there are a lot of things that they would have to dispose of the body, all these different things and do it without being seen by anyone because you'd have to assume again, that time of the morning, maybe

not. But if they got out of their vehicle at any point, a passerby would have seen them picking up things, pulled over to the side of the road with hazards on. There's a lot that can go, quote unquote, wrong for them in trying to get away with this crime. So either they were really lucky or it didn't happen. But I always am cautious about ruling it out completely. At the end of the day, what I take away from it is if it was whatever it was, whether she was abducted or she was hit by a car, if she was hit by a car, the person committed a crime, essentially a murder at this point, because they struck this woman, this young girl, and they proceeded to take her

body and move her somewhere else to avoid being apprehended or to avoid even answering what happened to her that night. And so therefore at this point, they're going to be criminally liable. And so it doesn't really matter to me whether it was an accident or not, or whether it was a car that hit her or she was picked up because either way in both situations, we're looking for it. There's a murderer out there. Yeah. I think it's a possible theory. I just don't think that that's what happened here. Yeah. But given the conditions that morning, rainy, dark, very dark, you know, because there's no lights on the highway. Yeah, it's definitely possible.

Of course. She was wearing all white, though, so you'd think that somebody might have seen her. Multiple people saw her. Just like the truckers did. Exactly. But if somebody wasn't paying attention while driving or they were drinking or something. Yeah, it's possible. But then again, this person's drinking and driving and they were able to, you know, get rid of everything that would link them to it. Um, and nobody, you know, nobody's reported a vehicle that had damage or anything down the road that would have been driving that morning. Um, it's less and less likely, especially I think the backpack is the key factor likely, especially I think the

backpack is the key factor here, because I really do believe if there was any type of road rash on that bag, I would like to think at this point law enforcement would be... It wouldn't really matter for the case. So I would hope that they would come out with that information and say, based on the condition of the backpack, we now believe that it was a hit and run. Well, they may know. There may have been damage to the blue bay. Maybe we'll find out about it in like 2030. I would hope they would have put that out there. I think that would help because maybe it jogs someone's memory about an individual that they were close with at the time that came home with unexplained damage to their vehicle and was really concerned about getting it fixed

immediately, even more than they should be, you know, because maybe the car was kind of a beat up car, didn't really matter, had other dings and dents on it. But for some reason, this damage to the front of their vehicle, they went and got it fixed like a week later. And before doing so, they put a tarp over it until it got fixed. You know, something again, that's like really, that'd be like a smoking gun. But, you know, you don't know until you put it out there and may jog someone's memory if they do. And I think you're right. The book bag for me is the ransom letter in the John Bonnet case.

Right. Like if it didn't exist, so many of these other theories would be so much more plausible. But it does exist. And it really does take the wind out of a lot of these theories where, oh, she just innocently left and got lost. No, she didn't leave and get lost because if she had, why would she have buried her book bag? Did she bury her own book bag? I don't think so. With the items that she took? Yes. The book bag is the ransom letter for me in the Ramsey case, because if that ransom letter wasn't there, there's a thousand theories that I would believe, but it is there.

So it makes- It's a very good example. Yeah. I also want to touch on the picture, the picture that was found in the Turner's barn. And many of you had your own theories about what it was and why it was found in that barn. And these theories had crossed my mind when I was trying to figure out where that picture fit in. And I spent way too much time looking at this picture and thinking about it and trying to figure out how it fit. So some wondered if Asha could have had a pen pal in school and maybe that picture came from her pen pal. There's a program called Pen Pal Schools

where students can connect with other kids in different countries and they communicate through letters and sometimes they would even send photos of each other to the other person. The problem with this theory is the police did try to track down who the photo belonged to. They went to the school to ask questions about it. So I have to believe that this angle was investigated thoroughly because if Asha had been communicating with another little girl, that would have been one of the first places they looked. They would have gone to the school and

said, hey, we found this picture. And the school would have said, nobody here is the person in this picture. However, Asha's class had pen pales. So we should look at that and see if it's her pen pale. We don't know if she had a pen pal or not. It was just a theory. There's also theories that the person who took Asha could have possibly chosen her as a replacement for a child they had who either also went missing or who had died. Maybe they saw Asha in the grocery store or or at a basketball game and they were like, oh, that looks like my daughter who I no longer have. And they kind of had a break with reality and wanted to steal her and raise her as their own. Maybe they left the picture of their child behind once they finally had Asha because Asha was their child now. I don't really, I mean, that's out of all of them,

that's the best theory because at least she'd be alive and she'd be being raised by somebody who really wanted a child. I just feel like by now, she probably would have come forward because she was nine. She wasn't a baby. She would have remembered. She would have had some memories, right, of like, this isn't my real mom and this isn't where I live. She would have said something to someone. So as happy of a theory as that is, I don't think it's the one that we should focus on. Yeah, you see Hoppsons with younger children. Younger children, yeah. Kids that haven't really completely grasped the idea of that's mom, that's dad.

Usually taken at birth, you know, or very close to it. Babies, yeah. Yep. Another theory wonders if the picture of the little girl found in the Turner's barn was another victim of the same person who took Asia. It was either left behind on accident or on purpose, or the picture could have been sent to Asia by someone pretending to be the little girl saying she was in trouble. You know, maybe she's like in a bad spot. She needed Asia's help. And the picture came with

instructions on where to find her and what to bring. Maybe Asha had brought those instructions with her. They hadn't been left in the barn, and whoever took her book bag made sure that they took those instructions out and got rid of them before they buried the book bag. There was another interesting theory that I read in the comments of our YouTube video, and it revolved around the picture and Asha's Tweety Bird purse. So if you remember, she just gotten that purse from the school treasure chest because she was, you know, acting above and beyond. She did a good job. They let them pick out a little treat from the treasure chest. That is what she picked. So it's possible that this purse was secondhand. Maybe the school had gotten it from like a garage

sale or a lost and found or whatever. And maybe that picture was already in the purse when Asha got the purse and she found it there while she was hiding out in the barn, eating candy and taking a rest. She might have realized that this picture didn't belong to her, didn't have any significance to her. So she tossed it to the side or she dropped it accidentally because it would have been dark inside the barn and she wouldn't have seen that she dropped it along with the pencil and the marker, I believe. I'm sure she didn't know that she had dropped those items unless she felt she was in danger and she left those items to let someone know where she'd been. But once again, this is all speculation. She was

nine. Would she have been cognizant enough to do that? I'm not sure. I don't care to admit how many hours I've spent looking at this photo because the photo itself is perplexing because it looks like a Photoshop photo where the face of the female has been enhanced. And to take a quote from the great Stephanie Harlow, it could be everything. Or it could be nothing. You know it really could. It could be as complex as. This serial killer. Or this person who did this. Deliberately left this photo behind.

As a breadcrumb. As a hint. Even though it would be so far fetched. Because again. The offender would have to assume. That someone would have seen her. Walk off the highway. Walk to Turner's shed. would have seen her walk off the highway, walk to Turner's shed, know that it was her in the shed based on the candy she was eating,

and then leave the photo there for them to find it. I just think that's a little far-fetched. It could also be as simple as this girl who kind of resembled Aisha, had a similar hairstyle to Aisha, and Aisha saw this photo somewhere, whether it was in her wallet or at the, you know, she found it in the track, whoever, wherever, and said, I kind of like the way she did her hair in that picture. I'm going to keep this. She's a pretty girl. Could be as simple as that. So I try not to spend too much time on things like that, that could just completely bog down my time. And I unfortunately did it in this case because I was researching it. There was a lot of stuff on Reddit, a lot of stuff on different sites. There was some stuff on the FBI Gov website. It's kind of this point, it's a question mark. It's a big question mark.

I don't think anybody really knows, including law enforcement. What do you think about the Tweety Bird Purse theory? A lot of people said that in the comments, that it could have been in that purse. Maybe the school got it secondhand. It's possible. It's what we said for episode one, where you were like, really? I was like, I truly believe. Did I say really like that, Derek? Yeah. Really? Really, Derek? If you said, Derek, you got to make a decision right now. You have to tell me what you think. This is it. Lock it in. I think it's a nothing burger. I think it's something that was left behind. always smile when i say nothing burger but i i i personally think it was something based on my own experience take the fact that forget that i was a cop i see it with my daughter i see all

the things that she brings home that aren't hers and they make no sense it's like the most random stuff ever and to me when when this girl is deciding to leave her house, she might've had that in the bag already. It might've been the Tweety Bird wallet. She might've pulled it out of the Tweety Bird wallet and said, what the hell is this? And threw it on the ground. So I personally would lean towards that. If you locked me in, you forced me into a corner, I would say, I don't think the photo has any significance whatsoever. But that's purely just based on my gut. It's kind of creepy to have no significance at all, though, right? Like, I think I think because of the way the photo looks is why it's like there's no way

that photo almost looks doctored. It looks created right for this purpose. Right. And I think if it was just a magazine or something like that, we probably wouldn't be looking like a magazine clipping. We wouldn't be looking that much into it. But because this photo looks like it was created for a specific purpose, it almost looks like the girl in the photo doesn't belong to the body. Exactly. It looks like it's like transposed, like two images. And somebody in our comments

said, you know, I do this kind of graphic design and photo editing and stuff. And yes, I do believe that this picture has been like doctored together, sort of Frankensteined together. Yeah. Her face, if you guys haven't seen, it's popping up in the YouTube version. If you're on audio, we strongly recommend you go check it out. You have to go check it out. The image of her face is super sharp, super clear, almost looks a little bigger than her body from what I'm seeing. And then the body itself is like kind of old and dated and blurry. Yes. It just doesn't fit. The two definitely do not fit. It's really creepy. Okay. While we're being creeped out by that, let's take our last

ad break of the night and we'll be right back. Okay. So I want to explore my theory in this because I have a specific theory that I really haven't heard mentioned anywhere else. So there's the possibility that Aisha decided to run away, but she didn't plan to be gone for long, right? She only packed a couple change of clothes, clothing, changes of clothes. You know what I mean. She only packed a couple of those. I don't believe she packed like a toothbrush, toiletries, stuff like that. So when I was researching this case, I found out that the day that Asha went missing, February 14th, her parents had planned to speak to a real estate agent because they wanted to sell their house and move. So they were going to be looking at some different houses that day. This is one

sentence in one article. And I believe that the article came out in 2021. So the degrees may have been planning to move to a different town or even a different state. And Aisha may have been terrified by this prospect. You know, we know kids don't like change, even if it's, you know, something positive, even if they're moving to a better house. I've gone through this with my own kids. I'm like, hey, guys, we're moving to a better house. This place has a pool. And my son's like, I don't care. My friends are here. You know, like, why would I want to move? So we know that Asha has has friends there. She's got many of her family members that lived within walking distance. This was the house she grew up in. She seemed to be happy with their living circumstances. And she may have said this to her parents and their response would have been basically

like, you know, we're moving. You don't have a choice about this. Yeah, too bad. Yeah, too bad. Yeah, you'll make more friends. You'll be fine. The same thing that I told my son, like, you'll be fine. You'll make more friends.

Just get over it. Asha may have been trying to teach her parents a lesson. You know, if you're going to wake up and talk to a real estate agent today, you're going to wake up and find me not in my bed and I won't be home. Her plan may have been to run away, hide out somewhere, give her parents like a good scare before returning home. But something went wrong along the way. Either Aisha was picked up by someone who had bad intentions, who took advantage of her being alone and scared, or she got lost, possibly after veering off the highway, wandered off into some remote area, and died from exposure. And between the elements and the animals, it's very possible her remains would never have been found. But

that's not really a possibility either, because her book bag was found buried. So we know that there's some third-party influence here. We know that at least one or more persons, people, they ran into Asha that night and whatever they did to her, they chose to hide the evidence. They chose to hide her her backpack because I don't see why she would do that herself. Unless she got really lost. But it was pretty far where her backpack was found. Right. That's a driving distance. 30 miles.

30 miles. So if we're to believe that Asha hid her own book bag, maybe thinking, oh, let me hide it here. I'll come back. I just don't want it to get lost. It's too heavy for me to carry because I am lost. And she buried it to come back to it. How did she get 30 miles away from where she was last seen? So I don't think that's even a possibility. It's interesting. And you know, what you just said about moving, it goes back to what we were saying in the beginning. We believe there's something that happened in the household

that led her to come to this decision that she had to leave the house. And that's why we're being very cautious about the different theories, because it could be as simple as this. It could be something as simple as she was not happy about the fact that they were going to be moving and she was trying to get a point across to them through her actions. It doesn't have to be as deep as she was being molested or anything like that. It could be just as simple because we know kids are capable of this. Kids do dumb things. And this, it could have been as simple as, I don't want to move. You don't have a choice. Tough luck. She decides, you know what? I'm going to scare them. Which is really interesting that we go there because although, should I go into my theory

to a certain degree right now? Do you want to just, should I go into it right now? Because it's not too far off of what you're saying. Yeah. I do believe something happened in the household. And I am on board with you that it could be something as simple as her not wanting to move and leave her friends. Or it could be something more severe. Nevertheless, I believe she left on her own, under her own free will. She did pack a bag And I do although I don't know if she was going to the school to practice her shot I do think there is something to be said about the fact that that is the route

She would have taken to get to school and as a 10 year old girl You're not too familiar with the topography of where you live So you're going to go with something that's very familiar to you, something you do every single day, which we would be going to school. So this could be a scare tactic where she decided to leave in the middle of the night to scare her parents. But in reality, she was just going to go to school early. So if they really wanted to find her, they could, which would explain why she had some extra clothes, why she had her uniform. But there's something I really want to dive into as far as the bag. The New Kids on the Block t-shirt, it's confirmed. It's on the FBI website that that shirt was found. They have a picture of the shirt hanging on a hanger. Well,

we don't know if that's the actual shirt or a shirt very similar to the one that was found in the bag. But here's what I found that was interesting about the shirt. We keep referring to it as a t-shirt, but in reality, it's not. I was looking up the shirt. I actually typed in new kids on the block concerts and t-shirts and tour shirts from around the 90s. And what I found from one of the researchers out there, I didn't do this on my own. What the shirt actually is, is it's a shirt that's a rock night's sleep shirt from 1990. And there's actually a listing for it that I was able to click on. It's a 90s new kids on the block, rock night's sleep long t-shirt. And the reason I bring this up is because essentially it's like a nightgown. Yes. They're long. They're long. They're meant to

be baggy and long. Yes. It's down to probably mid-thigh maybe your knees depending on how how big it is so this was something yeah this is something that she was gonna wear to bed to sleep um so could she have gotten this from a friend uh could she had had this for a while from a friend and her parents just never noticed there's a lot of similarities but it seems like maybe the plan was to go to the school, have her regular day of school, find a friend that she could sleep over at, spend the night there and then go home the next day and maybe, you know, teach her parents a lesson. And I'm using air quotes here, guys. But as far as what happened that she wasn't planning for everything you just said, she's making this, she's making this walk and she realizes very quickly that her idea,

how quick she thought the walk would be based on her driving there every day, it's a lot longer when you're on foot. And it's dark, it's scary, it's wet. And now she doesn't even realize, she doesn't even know where she is. Yeah, she's disoriented at this point, right? Is she five minutes away from the school or five hours? She's completely lost. And at some point, instead of veering off the highway like she did in that first scare with the trucker where she goes to turn a shed, she's a little bit off her game. She has a quick candy, decides to keep going. She realizes she bit off more than she can chew. And at some point, someone pulls over with bad intentions and they get her in a moment of weakness. Yeah. Let me give you a ride. Yeah. Can I help you?

And she's like, please. I'm scared out of my mind. Where are you trying to go? Oh, you want to go to the school? Let me take you. And she gets in the car voluntarily. This could be the green car that we described last episode. John, if you can throw that up.

Also, John, if you can throw up another photo of the new kids on the black shirt, you threw it up in the episode that should be coming out this Wednesday. You guys will see that. I've already seen the preview for the YouTube video. It's in there, but we'll throw it up again. And you can clearly see that it's a night shirt. So this green vehicle that you discussed last week, Stephanie, as far as being a possible suspect vehicle, this could be the car. And they pick her up and whatever happens, happens. Is she still alive to this day? I hope so. Could something worse have happened? Yes. But either way, Asha's book bag was taken from her and I believe it was buried by the offender 30 miles away. She could have already been unfortunately disposed of by that time,

or she could still be alive right now. They may have taken her and not the bag. Or it could be what we discussed last week as far as it being a keepsake. But to dive in on the bag, because there's a lot of theories about it. Some people have said that the New Kids on the Block sleep shirt in the book could be from a previous victim. I do not believe in like this could be his their stash for their keepsakes. I don't believe it. I believe that the shirt belonged to Asia, whether it was her friends before hers. I believe the book was taken out by a friend or someone she was close with. Maybe they were trading books that they all had taken out. Why that wasn't reported by one of their students or her friends. I don't know. They're

nine and 10 year old kids. Maybe they didn't her friends, I don't know. They're nine and 10-year-old kids. Maybe they didn't remember whatever. I think it's probably innocent. Well, they wouldn't remember that many years later when the police finally told us about it, right? Yeah, it came out. They might have known from the start that it was their New Kids on the Block t-shirt or book. And like you said, years later, they don't even... I don't remember what book I took out when I was nine or 10 years old.

So they might not even remember giving it to Asha. So that's where I stand on it. It's very similar to what you're saying. It's not much of a difference, but I think that maybe she was trying to teach them a lesson and things went south, or it could be more than that. But the reason why I kind of got away from that is if it was more than that, I feel like she would have had a plan with one of her friends or something to go somewhere close by. The only thing in the direction that she was heading was her school. And you take that in consideration with the fact that it's believed her uniform was in her bag and that she also took her keys.

It does appear that she was planning on going on with her day. And I've done this before where I'm like, I want to like when I was a kid, I wanted to like show my parents up. But I also wanted to make it so it was like not too bad. So it's like, I'm going to run away, but I'm going to run away to my school. So if they really get mad and they want to find me, they're going to know I'm safe. Yeah. It's a cry for attention. And so many of us were sitting here thinking about it like adults. And we're thinking, oh, that's not a reason to run away, but you got to think about it like a nine-year-old. And to them, little things are big things. The amount of things that I was mad at my parents for and the stupid things that they were like, oh, I can't go to Seabreeze with my friends. Like,

I'm so mad. I'm going to slam my door and I'm not going to talk to you for three days. When there was a valid reason why I couldn't go to see. It's an amusement park, by the way. Sorry, I know that's a local amusement park, but it's an amusement park. But there was things that were so monumental to me that I felt like, oh, my parents hate me. They're the worst parents ever. Why won't they let me do this? When in reality, you don't have adult experiences yet to understand that there's legitimate things to be upset about and legitimate things to throw fits about. When you're a kid, everything feels important and large and pressing. So you got to think about it like a kid. Imagine the things that you got mad at your parents about

when you were a kid. Imagine the things that caused you to run away from home. Once again, air quotes, because we've all run away from home, but we don't go far because we're scared and home is usually our safe place. So I don't think it was something huge that chased Asha out of the house. I think it was something that to her felt huge, which makes it even sadder, really, if you think about it. Because if it was because she was moving or because she was upset because she didn't have a computer like our friends or regardless something so little um a molehill getting turned into a mountain ended up being what caused her to wander into you know very unsafe territory well kind of dives into what we said earlier it ties in really nicely with what we were talking about back and forth where you brought up the theory

about maybe she went to the school to practice her shot. And I responded with, I don't see a scenario where she would purposely go to shoot extra hoops without telling her parents because she knows how much trouble she would get in. Well, with this theory tied into it, the sentence would end this way. I don't think she would go to the school without telling her parents unless she wanted to upset them. And that's how this theory ties into that. She might have left knowing this was going to upset them. And in her mind, if they confronted her on it, technically she didn't run away.

She just went to school early. And then she can say, well, this is why I did it. So now the conversation gets opened up. Whereas before, let's say they said, we're moving. You don't have a choice about it. She gets shut down. She doesn't feel like she can vocalize why she doesn't want to move. She doesn't feel like they're even listening or caring. So she's like, let me do something huge. And that way, when they get mad at me, now the conversation's opened up because the normal reaction for a child when they're told you don't have control over something is to exert their control over what they can control. And that's actually how adults are sometimes too. So it's very possible. Yeah. But I think we both agree that before you finish this up, I mean, it's fair to say that we both believe she was a victim of opportunity and this wasn't necessarily something where this was pre-orchestrated by an adult who told her to go to this predetermined location where they could meet. I don't know. I'm 50-50. Okay. Okay. All right. I still think that there's a

chance. Where are you leaning? I know you're 50-50 doesn't give you away leaning, but if I say Stephanie. I'm leaning more. I'm leaning more towards this theory that we just talked about that she left her own free will. She was a victim of opportunity. But there are a couple things that make it seem a little bit more like she had and into the rain unless she knew there was like a warm car or a warm house waiting where she knew she was going to be going to. Well, can we play it out real quick? Yeah. Let's play it out. I want you to play it out because there are people who think that. So let's go that route. So this was something that was pre-orchestrated.

It's through an adult, whether it's someone at the church, someone at the school, even a neighbor, whoever, someone who has some position of authority over her that she trusts. Yeah. What happened that night? What went wrong or did it go right is what you're saying, where they intentionally wanted her to start walking down the highway and they said, you just keep walking and I will find you. Is that how you think this is the plan that he would have come out with originally? Maybe.

And if that's the case, maybe her veering off the highway was what went wrong. And it took a little bit longer for her to get back on the highway and to reconnect with this person. Because we don't know how long she's off the highway when she's in the Turner's barn. So they could have been driving up and down the highway like, dude, where's this girl? I told her to be here. She's not here. And then she finally gets back on the highway when she's seen by that second trucker and and then he or she or they whatever the whoever told her leave spots her

and grabs her and he's like what the heck man i told you to be on the highway and she explained what happened and then you know who knows um that could have gone wrong i don't think that was part of her plan i don't think leaving the highway was ever part of her plan or no no no right or the person's plan i don't think it was part of anybody's plan i think she got spooked and turned off uh which does let you know that she's aware that there's danger out there she's aware of it and she may become more aware of it as you're saying her school bus is gonna get from her house to the school i think it was like a 10 minute drive 18 minutes wasn't wasn't it? Maybe. It wasn't long, right? So she's thinking as a kid, like, oh, I get to school quick. How much slower could I walk?

She's never been out on her own. So now she's walking and she's like, oh, this is taking forever. And I really don't even know where I am. This wasn't a time where you had Google Maps and you could see, oh, it's a straight shot. She's probably just walking, looking for landmarks, but everything looks different at night. She's never been out there at night. Everything looks different. A barn looks like a mountain in the dark. You don't know where you are. I'll tell you this. If that is the case, if that is what happened, then this green vehicle was misidentified or not involved because if this vehicle is the vehicle that picked her up, we would assume this person was someone in her life. And that vehicle has been plastered all

over the news, all over the internet. They put out vehicles that look similar to it. If that vehicle was similar to anybody in her life, they would have been dragged down to the station and they would have been put out on blast by Asha's family and everyone else. So either that vehicle is not the suspect vehicle or the person who picked her up, if that is the vehicle, did not know her previously, because if they did, we would know. The FBI would know. Obviously leaning more towards she left, she encountered somebody bad, but that's scary. Super scary. That's a very scary thought.

She was that desperate. She was that desperate at that point where the first trucker she sees, she gets away from it, but at that point, she had given up on the hope that she was going to be able to get to the school on her own. I mean, it's not even that she was that desperate. It's scary that she leaves her house and it's already terrifying for her. She doesn't know where she is. It's dark. It's much longer than she thought. It's raining. She's cold. She doesn't know what's going on. She doesn't feel safe anymore. And now on top of that, you have somebody who who offers her this like light in the darkness that you would hope somebody would help your kid if they were out wandering around. And it turns out to be somebody who just wants to put her in a worse place. That's scary to me that it may not have been planned. It may not have been premeditated. It may have just been wrong place, wrong time,

and she ends up being a victim. And to be completely honest, I don't think she's alive anymore. And I don't want to say that, but just statistics, past cases, just looking at the obvious, I don't believe Aisha's alive out there anymore. Statistically speaking, it's not likely because at this point you would think that something would have given at this point. But I'm still holding out hope. I'm holding out hope for Aisha, but more, even more importantly for Iquilla and O'Brien and the rest of the family. I know that she still believes she's alive. Yeah. So for that, for that, if Iquilla, if you're listening to this, we're hoping she is as well.

And we hope that you're one of the few that gets the happy ending where you do get your daughter back. We would love nothing more than that. But look at it. Somebody took her and hurt her. Okay. That person is still walking around. Oh, yeah. No doubt.

And do you think this was the last time? Do you think that they were like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to do this once and get away with it and not do it again. If you're somebody who's going to do it once and then you're going to get away with it, that's just going to embolden you more to do it again. So I really, I really have a feeling that this was somebody who wasn't from the area. This was somebody who was passing through. And if you look at other cases, maybe around of little girls who just disappear, this person could also be responsible for any one of these disappearances. And we would never know. And that's terrifying that there's evil demons out there preying on your children, walking around in the light of day. And you could see this dude at the grocery store or you could be his bank teller and you would have

no idea. That is terrifying to me. People in our comments hit on that. I know that again, it keeps coming back to this person, but Israel keys, some people were saying in the comments, I think it was only a couple, but they're like, could she have been a victim of Israel keys? You know, or it could have been a serial killer that was never identified. You know, someone absolutely plausible, absolutely plausible. And with Israel keys, his MO was having murder kits nearby and the wooded areas where he could bring the victim to that area. And he already had these things pre planted for convenience purposes. Yeah, possible.

We could sit here for seven hours or theories. Someone who's already in prison for snatching and killing another girl. And it's just going to take that to his grave. Right. Unless we find Asia and we're able to compare some trace evidence, DNA, something like that. You're right. Which is unlikely at this juncture. Yeah.

Well, in February of 2021, Asha would have been 30 years old. I quill a degree told WBTV, quote, we have done everything in our power to find our child and bring her home. Even though she is 30 now, she is still our child. Still the nine year old little girl who left. This is worse than death, because at least with death, you have closure. You can go to a grave site, or if you have the urn at home,

but for us, we can't mourn. We can't give up. The only thing we got is hope, end quote. Shelly Lynch, she's the spokesperson for the Charlotte branch of the FBI. She said that they're still actively investigating Asha's case. They have regular meetings with the Cleveland County Sheriff's Department and the State Bureau of Investigation. Lynch said, quote, we are actively investigating, following leads, generating new ones, conducting interviews, utilizing new advancements in technology that didn't exist before, end quote. A February 2021 article from WSOC-TV says that the morning Aisha

vanished, her parents had an appointment with a realtor to look for a new home. After Aisha vanished, they stayed in that same house for two decades, holding on to hope that they would be there if Aisha found her way back. They have since moved into a different home, which was not an easy decision, obviously. And Iquilla said, quote, No matter where we live, we are always going to be her parents, and we're always going to be looking for her. End quote. On the 21st anniversary of Aisha's disappearance,

Iquilla begged the public for help and spoke directly to the person out there who she believes knows something, saying, quote, All I can do is ask, beg, plead. I don't know, short of killing myself, how to get you to come forward, end quote. Aisha's family wants anyone with information to call 704-484-4788. Yeah, and also on top of the phone number, there's also the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, or NECMEC for short. That's the age progression photo that we showed you guys regarding Asha. You can go check that out. It's also going to be popped up right

here in the YouTube video to see what Asha may look like today. And listen, guys, it is possible. We talked about stats, but listen, there are outliers and we're hoping she's one of them. So if you're out there, be cognizant of your surroundings. If you see someone that resembles her, don't be afraid to say hello and ask, you know, if it's the appropriate situation. Neck mech for anyone who doesn't know was established in 1984 by John Walsh after his son Adam was killed. They've helped solve many missing persons cases. And it's one of the best organizations out there. So I follow them on Twitter. They're always putting out missing children, runaways, things like that. This is their sole purpose. So also, if you have a little extra money and you want to donate to a great cause, that would be one of them. Agreed. And do you have any final thoughts?

I don't. It's a sad case. The kid cases, they suck. There's just no other way to slice it. I wish I had a more poetic way of saying it. But as a father myself, you always want to be there for your kids. And to think that there's even a moment that goes by where there's an opportunity for someone to take them from you, I think it's my worst nightmare. And I'm thinking about Iquilla, I'm thinking about her husband,

I'm thinking about O'Brien, and I'm hoping that they get some answers sooner than later because they deserve it as well as any other family that's going through it. It's just a terrible situation. What we can take away from it, this is one of those ones where I don't know if there's a lot you can take away from it. You try to do everything right. You're a good parent. You try to live a structured life for your kids. And unfortunately, sometimes kids make decisions without your knowing that could ultimately be a life or death decision. And it seems like that's the case here. I don't think they did anything wrong. She was in their home when they went to sleep. You would expect her to be there when you wake up. She wasn't. So it's just one of those things where it's just a very, very unfortunate situation

for everyone involved. Yeah. I'm personally going to have a conversation with my kids, at least my son, who's 10 and just say, listen, you might get mad at me. You might want to run away sometimes, but when that happens, sometimes kids don't come home and they don't mean to not come home. They just get taken by some evil person. So if you're mad at me, then like, I don't know, slam your door or run away

to the garage, but don't leave this property. Like that's it. You got to have a conversation with your kids. You got to warn them that, you know, you want to keep them innocent and naive, but you also want to let them know that the world out there, it's not sunshine and lollipops. But we don't have to, I can make a little bit of a light joke here. I hope you don't, I don't think you'll mind. We don't have to worry about your son running away from home in the middle of the night. As you said last week, he won't go to sleep with you. He's still up now. Like I guarantee you.

I love it. Aiden, love you, buddy. And I bust Stephanie's chops all the time about this because he's 10 now, right? Yeah. He will literally, if we record late, it's already 1115. He waits for her. He will not go if we record late, it's already 1115. He waits for her because he will not go to sleep with other. So my point is, you're not going to worry about Aiden running

away because you're with him. Yeah. I mean, he's a mama's boy. Derek will call me sometimes like 1130 and I'll be like, hello. And he'll be like, are you in bed with Aiden again? I'm like, yeah, obviously every night. Shout out Aiden. Shout out Aiden. We love you, buddy. I love that kid, man. I'd rather have him safe and sound with me than running away. Hey, no shame. No shame. I'm about to put one of those little can rope things in his room. So if he gets up and walks, it just jangles.

Yeah, put a collar on him. Just put a collar on him. No, I don't think there's anything else. I know we had our conversations again today. Did we want it? Is it too early to mention T-shirts? I mean, it might be since you're so hard to please. We're going to have to revamp everything. They'll appreciate it. So we'll fill you in. I

don't care. We're working with a new company. International shipping is going to be amazing, but they're redoing the logo for their material, for their shirts. And I actually drew the logo for Crime Weekly. So I want it perfect. And it's not perfect in my opinion so i'd rather not i'd rather get it perfect before we release it it's honestly a minor thing it's just as simple as like an outline or no outline but stephanie was busting my chops earlier today but i'm doing it for you guys so she can she can i think it's gonna get done what can i do derek i i think it's gonna get i think it's gonna get done quickly you know what he's gonna say she can what you know what she can do? She can agree that you can have whatever you want because that's exactly what I did.

I said, Derek, I disagree with you. I think it looks great. But you know what? You are my partner. You're going to get what you want, man. Just like you're going to get that sushi when we're in Nashville. You're going to get this. And so we sent everything back and we said, make this better. And then they said, OK, but it probably won't be until next week till we get everything else to approve. It might not be. If by chance it

comes out earlier, I'll make sure it's posted on all our social media. Keep an eye out though. Yeah. So spoil it. It's going to be two different shirts, right? We'll give them a little something. It's going to be the undercover pineapple shirt, which came out awesome. And it's also going to be the crime weekly shirt without day one-ers in a multitude of colors, which Stephanie out awesome. So cute. And it's also going to be the Crime Weekly shirt without day oners in a multitude of colors, which Stephanie is handling. She's picking out all the colors for you guys and she's got some good ones. They're so cute. And the fabrics are so nice. The materials are great. We're using the same company that we use for My Merch Online and I love them. I love their shipping. I love their customer service. They're great. The t-shirts are going to be so cool. So just keep a lookout for the drop on our social media. And then obviously,

as soon as it happens, whatever podcast we record next, we'll announce, let you know where to find it. And it's going to be awesome. So thank you guys so much for being here. Next week, we start a brand new case, which Derek called me a couple of days ago and he was like, I know exactly what we're doing next. And I was like, okay, let's do it. Thundercats ago. All right, we will see you next week. Thank you so much for being here. Bye.

Later.