Crime Weekly - S1 Ep41: The Murder of Laci Peterson: A Double Life (Part 2)

Episode Date: September 17, 2021

Check out a sample of Vodacast! --https://vodacast.com Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop It was December 24th, 2002, Christmas Eve morning, and in Modesto California, where Laci Peterson lived with her husband Scott, it was a cool, foggy, northern California morning. The young, attractive couple woke up that morning, each with their own plans in mind. Laci had some last minute items to pick up for Christmas dinner at her parents home later, and she also wanted to take her golden retriever McKenzie for a walk. Her husband Scott had plans to go fishing at Berkeley Marina, about an hour and a half away from the couples home. Scott left the house around 9:30 in the morning, and did not return until 4:30 that evening. When he got home, his wife was not there, and she wasn’t answering his calls. He normally would not have been so concerned, but Laci was eight months pregnant with their first child, a son who they had named Connor. Over the course of the next few months, a massive search and investigation took place for Laci, and as Connor’s due date came and went, the need to find mother and child became more urgent, until April 13th, 2003, when the bodies of Laci and her son were found washed up on the shore of San Francisco Bay.  Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

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Get 25% off when you visit ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So today we are continuing with the Lacey Peterson case. This is going to be part two. So if you have not heard or seen part one yet, you should go watch or listen to that first because it's very important. And a lot of this won't make sense if you don't watch or listen to that first because it's very important and a lot of this won't make sense if you don't watch or listen to that first. Today we're going to actually be going over the Scott

Peterson Amber Fry timeline. We're going to talk about how they met and in Amber's own words how she believed she had found in Scott someone that she could be happy with forever and settle down. We're also going to talk about how Amber found out that her new boyfriend was, in fact, already married. And this timeline is important because, you know, we both think that it speaks to the kind of person Scott was. And we're going to really dive into that. But first, we have a couple announcements. Yeah, absolutely. You want me to hit it off?

Yeah. Well, just based on what you just said i agree with all of it uh my takeaway as far as the arrangement of these episodes how we're doing it first episode was kind of the foundation for me this second episode i've said it to you guys numerous times means motive opportunity this whole affair really ties into the motive aspect of this. So for me, this is extremely important and it should be for you too. If you're listening to this for the first time and you're trying to get all the details because we really want to understand their relationship in order to develop our own opinions as to whether or not this is a strong enough motive to commit murder.

So for me, I think that this particular relationship between Amber and Scott is pivotal to truly making a real educated decision about where you fall from an investigatory perspective. So that's one. Now on a lighter note, before we get into it, we want to talk about merchandise real quick, because we kind of hit it last week. If you've listened to the audio, you've already heard it. If you already watched part one on YouTube, you've already seen some of it, but now it's official. We have the links locked in. Crime Weekly merch, both for Undercover Pineapple and the regular Crime Weekly merch is now available. We're going to say this a couple times in this little spot here, but it's crimeweeklypodcast.com slash shop. Same link it's always been. If you go there,

you're going to see a few different images of what we offer. We'll throw those up right now. You can kind of see it here. John's throwing them up there for you, but understand those are just a couple of examples. I'm sure Stephanie's going to dive into it, but we have a ton of different products, ton of different color concepts that Stephanie kind of picked out herself. So there's a lot of options there. You go on that link, you click the shop now button, it's going to take you to the bonfire page and you can go there and go nuts. Get whatever you want. Yeah, we have our basic Crime Weekly design. We have them on different colors now, different styles. We got tanks, we got tees, we got hoodies. We also have the undercover pineapple design, which we love.

These two little cute undercover pineapples that are representative of Derek and myself. So cute. I love it. It's one of my favorite designs of all time. And that even includes merch on my shop because I just think it's adorable. And it's unique. You know, I think it really represents us. So go check those out.

We love them. We're really pumped. and we can't wait to see pictures of you guys wearing everything. Yeah, we're looking forward to it. And I think if I did it correctly, Crime Weekly mugs just got added. A couple of you guys had asked for it. We just added those. Something we want to be transparent with you about, the big reason we switched over to Bonfire is Bunker Branding was great, but Bunker Branding has a bigger deal for international shipping. We have a big international audience, so it just didn't work for us. And you guys told us that, so we were listening to you. So you will notice that

these prices might be slightly higher. That's only because the international shipping is a lot cheaper. And so they incorporate those costs in the product itself, but it's not anything crazy. Bonfire has been great. So I'm sure we'll hear back from you guys as far as what you think, what you like, what you don't like. But that's just to be completely upfront with you. That's why you might see a slight dollar change here or there. It's because they're saving you $5 or $10 on shipping for an extra 50 cents to $1 on

the product. Yeah, I think regular, not just international shipping, regular shipping is a little bit cheaper too. And I've been using Bonfire on YouTube for years and their shipping is fast too. So that's super important. I love them. The quality of the clothes are great. And I don't even think that the clothes changed much in pricing.

I think it was the mug. Yeah, the mug changed slightly. The clothes went up like I think a dollar or two. Maybe not the prices. We tried to absorb a lot of the costs too as well on our end. So most of it, you won't know. You probably wouldn't have noticed the difference if I didn't even say anything, but we just want to be honest because there will be a couple of you guys who really do pay attention to detail who will notice it. And instead of having to ask us, now you know why, but where you'll also see a difference is in the shipping. So when you check out and you're not paying more than you're paying for the shirt for

shipping, you'll notice that as well. You can thank Bonfire for that one. You can thank Stephanie too, because we were really on top of it. We've been working with someone over at Bonfire to make sure that you guys are getting the best prices. And we're looking forward to you guys seeing it. We think the designs are great. We think the material is really good.

Stephanie has said nothing but great things about their material. And I'm personally excited about getting my red Cardinal hoodie. That's that color with the Crime Weekly logo. As soon as you were like, what do you think of this? When I was like, that's, I'm getting it. And there's already been people from the last video who have started purchasing stuff. And I have to say a bunch of people without, without me saying anything, already bought the red cardinal hoodie.

So clearly, I was right. Clearly, you were. Yeah. So go check that out, guys. We also have a couple shout outs. We are going to play a speak pipe from a nice young woman named Ashley. She's actually from Modesto. So she has some interesting things to say

about the Peterson case. But I also want to give a shout out to Maddie. Maddie says we can make 20 parts of this series and she will be just fine with that, which is great because today I called Derek and I was like, do you trust me? Do you trust me? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, I don't think this is going to be just four parts. There's way too much. I'm going so deep. I think all of this is important. It's so hard for me to leave out certain details or certain even time periods. So it may be more than four parts. And he was like, well, that's what it is then. So he trusts me. I hope you guys do as well. And you're on this ride with us. But I wanted to give one more shout out to Kelly. Kelly's from Massachusetts. She's a psychologist. She gave us a really nice speak pipe. Oh, and also

Joe Spencer. Joe Spencer gave us a nice speak pipe too. Great accent, Joe. She listens to us on her commute to work. So we really appreciate you guys. Thank you so much. We love listening to the speak pipes. It's honestly one of my favorite parts about this podcast. So keep them coming and hopefully you'll hear your name on a future episode. Absolutely. Let's get into Ashley's Speak Pipe. She's from the area. So we thought that would be the one we play this week. I'm not sure how helpful this would be.

But as someone who was born and raised in Modesto, I have lots of strong feelings about this case. I can remember when I was, because I was very young when this happened, but I can remember waking up in the morning before school and my mom watching the news coverage of Scott Peterson's case and hearing her and other family members talk about the trial and what might have happened. And my uncle and his girlfriend actually lived, I'm not sure if they still do, but at the time Lacey went missing. And for quite a few years after, they lived on the same street as the Petersons did. And so I kind of just wanted to share what my experience at

least has been with, as being part of the community and talking with other people in the community um in the years since um the you know lacy's murder and scotch trial um and my you know my general experience uh with talking with other people from modesto has been you know everyone seems to have a very strong sense that this man is guilty. He murdered his wife. He's exactly where he needs to be. And it's been quite a few, yeah, it's been a few years since I've talked to anyone really in depth about the case. But my experience has always been, he's guilty, a very strong sense of resentment from the community for what he did. Okay. So thanks, Ashley, from Modesto. This is their hometown. So for us, it's a story. For them, it's their reality. And I think she laid it out pretty good. The general consensus within that community, they all believe that

Scott's guilty. Yeah. I thought it was cool that she said her aunt and uncle lived on the same street as the Petersons. And I think it was also really cool that she said, you know, she remembers because she was young getting up in the morning and like getting ready for school and hearing her mother listen to the news about Lacey's disappearance and then hearing her family talk about like Scott's trial and stuff. Yeah, it's a general consensus in Modesto that he is guilty. And she said there's a lot of resentment in the community for what he did or what he allegedly did at this point. So thank you so much, Ashley. We really enjoyed that. It was so cool hearing from somebody that lived or lives

in Modesto and we appreciate you reaching out. Yeah. And Ashley didn't really say this. There are some other speak pipes that suggested this a little bit more, but just to put the disclaimer out there, some people have said, you know, I think he's guilty. You know, I don't think there's any way that you're going to be able to convince me that he's not. And for anyone who this isn't blatantly obvious for, Stephanie and I are not trying to convince you of anything. We're just laying out the facts and circumstances, and we want everyone to come to their own conclusion. So by no means based on titles or how we say things, we are going to play devil's advocate. Sometimes there will be points where I defend Scott, where you probably defend Scott,

Stephanie, and we play other angles. She's giving the face like maybe not, but you know, there's going to be some alternate theories where people believe that Scott is innocent. And so when we tell those stories, when we, we investigate those theories, we're not going to go in there with this skewed judgment where we're like, I don't even know why we're covering this because it's not true. I'm going to approach it and you're going to approach it as if maybe this is what happened. So it may sound like we're trying to convince you of something. It's not.

We're just being as objective as we can be. Stephanie already covered this case. She was transparent with you guys. She told you right up front. She believed he did it. And she's still, am I fair in saying that? You still believe he did it, but you're open. You're open to looking at it. I do have a strong feeling that he did it. However, I also know for a fact that he didn't get a fair trial. And those things are conflicting inside of me because I want our justice system

to be something we can depend on, something we can trust, but I also don't want guilty people walking free. So at the end of the day, I would like him to get a fair trial, but yes, in my heart, I believe he did this. But maybe I will change my own mind as we go through this. Who knows?

That's the point, right? We're not just doing it just to do it. We're doing it because he's currently appealing. There's a lot of people who have some information about it, maybe not all of it. So we thought it'd be a great opportunity to dive into the thing the way Crime Weekly does, which is all the way, all the way. It's not going to be a 45 minute, you know, overview. If you want that, we apologize ahead of time. You came to

the wrong place. There's plenty of people that did that. But this episode, I wouldn't even want to say this episode in particular because there's so many more episodes to come about this that I don't know. But this episode is jam packed full of information. I find it very interesting. Trust me, there's a lot here. So let's just dive right in because it's going to be a long one, right? Let's do it. All right. So in the years after his arrest, many experts have claimed that Scott Peterson may have some indicators of psychopathy. Others say his behavior is closer to that of a sociopath. Some friends and family members who were close to Scott before his wife, Lacey, went missing, they've said that they believe he may be a sex addict. There was a forensic psychiatrist, Keith Abloh.

He's actually been on, I think he's like a TV guy, like he goes on news channels and talks about stuff. So he is pretty well known. There's a little controversy around him, but either way, he wrote a book called Inside the Mind of Scott Peterson. And his theory is that Scott was doomed from the moment his grandfather was murdered in the 1940s. And we talked about that in part one. Keith Abloh feels that Scott's mother, Jackie, had a very hard start in her life. He said she grew up in an orphanage that has since been called a cesspool of pedophilia. She went on to give two babies up for adoption, and when she gave birth to Scott, he was objectified, and his humanity didn't matter. He, quote, needed to suffocate himself and drown himself essentially to death, spiritually, to be in this family. After all, his mother had given away kids. It's a very clear message. I can

do that. End quote. Keith Abloh also theorizes that Scott was threatened by the idea of becoming a father, saying, quote, there's a psychological threat to him even being a person. So he becomes a person imitating a person. He needs to be perfect in that family, so perfect that he strangles the reality of himself. And so when he meets Lacey, by the time he meets her, he's already well on his way to being a mask of sanity. He's perfect. She can find nothing wrong with him because he's already exercised all the loose ends. But he's very, very angry at having been destroyed as a child, end quote. So I'm obviously not a mental health professional.

I don't claim to be. But I do find this theory very interesting, especially after examining Scott's relationship with Amber and the things he says to her. It's like a fantasy that he built. He is literally living a double life. So I think a lot of what Keith Abloh says is very true. He wants to be perfect. He wants to be perfect in the eyes of everybody. Maybe Scott was becoming less than perfect in the eyes of Lacey. So he needed to find another woman who would look at him as this hero and this white knight and this like shining example of a man in order to keep his own sanity, in order to keep his own perception of himself.

Yeah. I found the part about kind of emulating his mother in some ways where she gave up children and he could do the same because he saw how his mother was willing to do so at a very young age. And maybe that's how he viewed Connor as well. I mean, I'll say this because I am a police officer. I've dealt with or a former police officer, I should say. And I've dealt with a lot of forensic psychologists. And I had one on Dr. Chris Mohani. He's a good friend of mine. There is some level of subjectivity to it.

It's open to interpretation. And so there's really you can't be wrong because he's this person is trying to get inside the mind of another person. And to my knowledge, that's not a science yet. It's, you know, you can interpret certain things and mannerisms and verbal and verbal and physical cues. But I do think that it's dependent on the, the person doing that interpretation. So I always love hearing these different insights because you talk to two people who read the same case, they'll come to a different conclusion. I think it's important to hear all angles. And that's why I find this very fascinating.

And there are some points in it where I go, hmm, that does make a lot of sense. I found a lot of what Keith Abloh said to ring true, especially when you look at Scott, the way he acted with Amber, the things he said to her. I find this theory very interesting. As we go through Scott's activities when he's not around his wife, it's pretty spot on. The question is, does this make Scott a murderer or is he just a misguided man who has a lot of childhood trauma that he never worked through? So he sort of created this different reality where he's not an expectant father because in his opinion, parents are imperfect. He's seen it with his own parents and he never wanted to be viewed as anything but perfect. It was the only way he could get through life. All right, we're going to take

a quick break and then we'll be right back. You can't rely on blind faith to get the pregnancy support you deserve. Ritual's Essential Prenatal Multivitamin is the only leading prenatal backed by its own human clinical trial. Essential Prenatal is proven to deliver key nutrients, including folate, biotin, and vitamin D during pregnancy. Get 25% off when you visit ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Did you know that many products for pregnant women do not have their own clinical trials for safety or efficacy? That's because pregnant women are often excluded from clinical studies. Ritual is aiming to set a new standard

with their essential prenatal multivitamin. It's the number one best-selling prenatal and the only leading prenatal backed by its own human clinical trial. Essential prenatal is proven to deliver key nutrients, including folate, biotin, and vitamin D during pregnancy. Moms taking essential prenatal had a lower overall cortisol level during pregnancy than those taking a leading prenatal. Plus, it's designed to be gentle on the stomach. Ritual doesn't just have your back. They have the receipts. Get 25% off at ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Okay, so our timeline with Amber and Scott, it starts on October 23rd, 2002,

when Scott and one of his employees, a man named Eric Olson, traveled from Modesto to Anaheim, California to the Disneyland Hotel for a CAPCA conference and trade show. So it's like a fertilizer conference. Scott and Eric were going to set up a booth and spend their time networking with others from their industry. While at the trade show, Eric ran into a man he had worked with previously. This man's name was David Fernandez. David introduced Scott and Eric to a woman named Shawn Sibley. So after this conference was over for the day, the four of them decided to all grab dinner together because apparently Scott and Shawn Sibley, they were like hitting it off from the first moment that they met.

At this point, Eric knew that Scott was married and that his wife was expecting a baby. So he was a bit taken aback when throughout the dinner, he said they were behaving in a way that was inappropriate for an engaged woman and a married man. Sean had made it clear to all three men that she was engaged to be married. But during dinner, Scott made a point of asking Sean some sexual questions.

He asked her which positions she preferred during sex, and then he told her which were his favorites. Eric Olson believed that Scott was testing Sean to see how loyal to her fiancé she was. But the conversation made Eric and David Fernandez quite uncomfortable. So they got up and left the table as soon as dinner was over, and they left Scott and Sean alone. Sean would later say that Scott talked about sex a lot, saying, quote, it was like a constant thing with him. We'd be talking about something else, and he'd bring up sex, end quote. However, according to Sean, Scott also got a little deep with her, a little vulnerable, or at least that's what she thought at the time. He told her that he had lost the woman he believed was his soulmate.

And Scott asked Sean if she thought this meant that he was destined to be alone for the rest of his life. Once Scott realized that he wasn't going to get anywhere with Sean, you know, he wasn't going to get her in bed. He asked if she had any single friends, and Sean said she did know of someone. A friend of hers named Amber, who lived in Fresno, but Amber had been through a spell of bad luck with men, and so she was only looking for someone if they were serious about settling down. During this conversation, Scott also joked about wanting to add something to his business card that would make him more appealing to women. He suggested maybe he should have the letters HB printed on his cards. And in his situation, HB would stand for horny bastard. Sean told him he should put the words I'm rich on his cards, and that would probably be more effective in attracting women.

Yikes. Yeah. No, I mean, the whole thing is cringe, really cringe. It's really bad. Yikes. That's my first reaction. I mean, it gets worse. Yeah. No, I mean, I think this can be a reoccurring theme as we continue. And, you know, again, just looking at it from a surface level, it does appear that Scott

is obsessed with sex. And, you know, the fact that he's willing to have this conversation with this woman in front of other people. That he just met her. He just met her, uh,

you know, knows he's married, you know, everyone knows he's married. No, she doesn't know he's married. But I'm saying the two buddies did. Eric,

Eric did because he was like from modesto and he works for him but nobody else is overtly putting it out there yeah and he's expecting him to be one of the boys and just kind of go along with it and so um you know i have a feeling that this isn't the only time this happened and this is something that was probably very familiar to them and and again we talk about the first episode that we did and family members saying that they believed Scott was a sex addict, well, whether you believe those family members or not, if you take what they said at face value and you start to compare it to the stories we're hearing from unbiased witnesses, it does appear to be some truth to it. And again, we're just scratching the surface.

So very interesting when you think about what was it. And again, we're just scratching the surface. So very interesting. When you think about what was said first episode and what we're already hearing about now about Scott, you can develop your own opinions. But I know where I'm already starting to go just based on this initial story that we're hearing about. Yeah, and after last episode, I did do some more research on whether Scott had previous affairs.

The short answer is, yes, he did. I'm going to get into specifics, but not in this episode. I'll get into specifics when we go through the trial, but yes, he did. Yes, he did. And what do you think about him wanting to put horny bastard on his business card? That was what I was really referring to as far as cringe. I mean, a lot of married men do things like this where they're out with their buddies, they're traveling. Hearing that story is not too unfamiliar. We see it in movies all the time. We hear about it from friends and family, other people that we realize that were individuals who traveled a lot for work and they live this double life when they're on the road.

So that's not surprising to me, but the HB comment, it's like, man, that's odd. It's like he doesn't even know women at all right why would that attract a woman if he put that on his card yeah so when they ask him hey what does hb stand for it means a horny bastard that's gonna make him want to roll right up into the sheets with you huh yeah hey you know where's your room bring me upstairs that's i mean that's that's probably not gonna do it for you scott super weird and the the funny story i mean i don't know if it's funny. It was funny to me because I went through all the court testimony and Sean Sibley had to testify at Scott's trial. And Eric Olson testified and he said, I didn't think they were behaving in a way that an engaged woman should and a married man should with each other. And she's got to testify.

And there was emails that she sent him where she's like, oh, are you getting any help? How was skiing? Did you find some bunnies to keep you warm? It's so great to be in a long-term relationship and not have to worry about my needs being met and stuff. It felt like she was flirting with him a little bit in the emails she sent him after this. So I wonder if she ever did get engaged because all of that came out of the trial. And I'm sure her fiance or her husband was too happy about it. How would he be? Right? Yeah, no. Yeah, no. Oh, well, that's a tough one. Yeah. Well, the next day, October 24th, Sean Sibley called Amber and Sean was like, listen, I met a cute guy. He's looking to settle down. You know, are you OK if I give, um, him your number?

And Amber was like, well, is he serious? And Sean's like, yeah, I think he is serious. And Amber was like, is he cute? And Sean's like, he's really cute. So at the beginning of November, Sean Sibley's son Scott an email and she was like, when are you going to call Amber? When are you going to go out with her? And then she said, quote, you told me before that you'd come to Fresno anytime.

Are you chickening out? End quote. Amber Frey was a 27-year-old massage therapist. So at this point, Scott's 30, Amber's 27. Amber and her 18-month-old daughter, Ayana, lived in a one-bedroom apartment in Rolling Hills in Fresno, California. When Sean had called, she told Amber that Scott couldn't have been nicer. She genuinely believed that he was looking for something serious, but Scott did not call Amber right away. He didn't call her until November 18th, and he left a voicemail for her. She called him back the next day, and they agreed to meet for their first date the next night. On the phone, Amber asked Scott

how she would know it was him, you know, because this would be a blind date. And Scott joked with Amber saying, quote, well, I'm not very tall and I have long greasy hair and a big loose belly, end quote. Amber played along telling Scott that she was very tall and she weighed 160 pounds. They both laughed and they planned to meet at the Elephant Bar, which is a chain restaurant in Fresno. Remembering the night she first met Scott, Amber said, quote, I got there before he did and took a seat in the glass-walled foyer within view of the walkway, and every time someone approached, I looked up. I had butterflies in my stomach. I had a feeling my life was about to change. Scott Peterson sounded absolutely perfect, end quote. And this is what he wants her to think,

right? This is what he wants everybody to think, that he's flawless, that he's absolutely perfect. When Scott arrived, Amber was pleasantly surprised. She said he was handsome, tall, and well-dressed. When they met and exchanged pleasantries, Scott asked Amber if she would mind accompanying him to his hotel room so he could check in and change. He was like, listen, I've been wearing this suit all day. I've been on the road. You know, do you mind coming with me to the hotel? And she was like, sure. So they left Amber's car in the parking lot of the Elephant Bar and they rode to the Radisson Hotel in Scott's truck. Amber noticed that he had a lot of suitcases in his truck and he saw her looking and he was like, oh, you know, I basically live out of my truck because I'm on the road so much. So he's building this narrative. He's building this narrative with Sean like, oh,

I lost the person I thought I was supposed to be with forever. Do you think I'm going to be alone forever because I really want to settle down? And he's building this narrative with Amber of like, yeah, you know, I'm just a wandering man. I don't have a home. I don't have a family, really. I'm on the road so much. I'm super important. So Scott and Amber go to the hotel. And then he and Amber went up to the room where he presented her with a bottle of champagne he had taken out of a brown duffel bag. Scott's brown duffel bag comes up a couple more times. And he's always got stuff in there. It's like when you see a magician, he's pulling rabbits out of his hat. Scott's just pulling all this random stuff out of this duffel bag all the time so he he pulls the bag yeah it's like a it's like a false bottom bag it's his infidelity bag he keeps it around it's his go bag so he poured each of them

a glass of champagne and then he turned on the radio and he went into the bathroom to take a shower while amber is like still in his hotel room. So when he came out, he was dressed in slacks and a blue button up. And Amber, who was also wearing blue, she was like, oh, you know, we match now. To which he replied, so we do. Scott then pulled a box of strawberries out of his duffel bag and he popped one strawberry into each of their glasses. After they'd finished their champagne, Scott brought Amber to a fancy sushi restaurant where they were seated. But as soon as they sat down in like the public dining area, Scott excused himself. He was like, I'll be right back. And he returned a moment later to tell Amber that he had arranged for them to have a private room so they could be alone.

They were led to a secluded room with a long low table. They sat on the ground next to each other. They were eating. They were talking. It was super intimate. Scott told Amber he was a fertilizer salesman, and his work took him all over the world from Cairo to Paris. He said he lived alone in a big house in Sacramento, and he loved animals and he wanted a pet, but he didn't think it would be fair because he was never home. He said he also had a fully furnished condo in San Diego with a fully loaded Land Rover in the garage, and he was just thinking of selling it all because he just didn't have time to visit it often and he didn't have anyone to share it with. Scott regaled Amber with stories of his world travels. He told her he loved wine and he was a member of several wine clubs. He also mentioned that he really wanted to settle down. He just hadn't found the right person yet. Amber said, quote, the way he looked at me when he said that made me feel he might be wondering whether I was that person, end quote. Amber talked as well, and when she told Scott about her job and her family, he listened actively. He showed genuine interest. She let

him know she'd been unlucky in love. She dated a lot of men who made a lot of promises that were never kept. He nodded sympathetically. Amber said that as she was sitting next to him, she looked at him and she was like, this is a hardworking guy. You know, he makes a good living. He's got a lot of potential. Amber and Scott talked and drank long after they finished dinner. And at one point, the waitress came in and she was like, hey, you know, we're closing down, but, you know, I can see you guys are still talking. So if you want to keep the night going, there's a karaoke bar next door and you guys can, you know, go over there, grab some drinks and keep chatting. At the karaoke bar, Scott ordered two gin and tonics, even though Amber was already feeling a bit tipsy. So she

actually says this. She's like, he ordered two gin and tonics even though we really didn't need it. Then Scott was like, we should get up on stage and sing something together. But Amber was embarrassed. And Scott was like, don't be silly. You know, I heard you singing along with the radio in my hotel room while I was in the shower and you've got a great voice, which is creepy.

But she got like emboldened by his praise. You know, she's like, okay, he thinks I'm good. So Amber joined Scott on the stage and they performed their rendition of the Notorious Couple's karaoke hit, Islands in the Stream. Remembering this, Amber said, quote, we were terrible. I was laughing so hard I could barely catch my breath, but Scott kept singing, so I played along, end quote. When the song was over, a Frank Sinatra song came on and Amber said she wanted to dance. And Scott told her, you know, I'm not very good at dancing. But she was like, don't worry, I'll lead.

They didn't really dance as much as they just stood there and swayed. But Amber said it felt good just to be close to him. At one point, Scott asked Amber if she smoked cigarettes. And when she said no, he bent down and kissed her and said, oh, yeah, you are definitely not a smoker. That's a pickup line, right? That's definitely a pickup line. That was an opening line for him to kiss her. He was not actually asking her if she smoked cigarettes. Am I right? I need the man's point of view. Correct. That's all I can say. Correct. I mean, yeah, you nailed it. What the heck? And he was leading up to this. I mean, everything you're saying up to this point is leading up to this moment where,

you know, he's trying to create this perfect night for her. He's subtly, passively letting her know that he's very well off financially with his condo and his Land Rover. So these are all like subtle flexes that he's trying to pass throughout the night to build this image to her that he's this perfect guy. And he's trying to, which it seems like he accomplished, he's trying to make her feel like she's the one who's lucky to be with him at that moment. And that quote that you read, as far as him looking at her and thinking, he's looking at me as if I could be that one.

She felt privileged at that point. This is a great moment for me. I've been having a lot of bad times with different men and this could be my final Prince Charming. And he was creating this perfect night for her that involved good food, good conversation, a lot of drinks, which that wasn't by accident. And, you know, she said she was already tipsy. He figures, you know what, let me give her a few more, make it even easier for me to do whatever he wants to do. So yeah, it's all leading up to this moment and that's a cheesy pickup line. Oh yeah, you're definitely not a smoker. That's just to get that affirmation that he can kiss her. I mean, I've never heard it before. It's never been used on me, thank God. Hopefully it'll never be used again. No okay here's my question they go to the

sushi place they get seated in public dining and then he leaves and he's like i got a private room do you think he had arranged the private room previously or he wanted to make sure she was like attractive and as soon as he saw that you know he was attracted to her that's when he's like i want a private room because i'm trying to get this girl in bed tonight i mean listen if he thought that much where it was like i'm willing i took it as he felt like this restaurant was going to be more secluded, more dark in there. Maybe that it was a restaurant he had previously picked because he was hoping he was going to be kind of positioned in an area where he wouldn't, they wouldn't be seen. And when, wherever they were, they were sat, he probably felt like incoming and outgoing traffic

from the restaurant, everyone was going to see them. And so I think it was a matter of, you know what, we need to be in a more secluded spot. So God forbid someone who knows Lacey or knows myself happens to be over here, they won't see us. I think he was very uncomfortable with the positioning of where they were seated. Well, let us know in the comments if you guys think that he waited to see if she was attracted before asking for the private room or if, you know's what derek said he was afraid of being noticed and you know it was more public than he expected because you don't think they probably shared uh pictures and stuff like that they did not they did not share pictures no so it was a it was a real like this is 2002 conversations it was a blind date yeah it was a blind date is that a blind date is it if you talk

to someone beforehand it's a blind date because it's not a deaf date? If you talk to someone beforehand, is it still a blind date? It's a blind date, yeah. Because it's not a deaf date. You know what I mean? Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, it's true. Yeah. It's true. Well said.

And whatever he was doing, it was making her fall hard, right? So he's almost like going, and remember, he did this with Lacey. Like when she brought her mother into the restaurant that he worked at, he had a dozen red roses and a dozen white roses. He's charming. He knows he's charming and he knows exactly what he has to do to be charming. And he's almost simulating this love at first sight feeling so that she feels what he wants her to feel. It's scary. It's manipulative. Yeah, no, he's, he's good. He's really good. And listen, regardless of what you think of the guy, he's an attractive man. He's an attractive guy. I can, I mean, he's not a bad looking guy. Couple that with the ability to speak and be charismatic. And then, you know, I'm sure this isn't the first woman that he's played this kind of role with. So he's prepared. He's got his little brown duffel bag that makes him, you know, his little bag of Barney tricks. You know, they ever seen Barney bag, you know, that old school. He's got his little brown duffel bag that makes him, you know, his little bag of Barney tricks.

You know, they ever see Barney bag? You know that? Well, yeah, that's old school. He's always like, it seems like the never ending bag where he can reach down with his shoulder and he pulls out a bouquet of flowers. Yeah, no, it's, um, so he's really in his element and he's good at what he does. And he has a, he has a mission, right? He has a goal. He wants to sleep with this woman and he wants to do it that night, preferably.

He doesn't want to wait. He does. And I think he enjoys this, Derek. Like, I think he enjoys this like, oh, start of relationship thing. And if he is a sex addict, sex addicts are often love addicts. So they enjoy that like rush that you get when you meet someone, like the rush of adrenaline and serotonin and stuff. The new relationship like high. Thrill of the chase, right?

Yeah. Well, I don't even know if it's a thrill of a chase. It's more like he just wants to feel desired and valued and special, you know, and he wants to feel that somebody's like head over heels for him. And as you know, when you're married and then your wife's pregnant and stuff, you lose that magic and you lose that beginning of the relationship feeling. And now all of a sudden your wife's worried about the kids and she's having a baby. And is the baby going to take your place? And is she going to have enough time for you? So he really just wanted to feel like number one. Again, that's my opinion. No, I think you're definitely onto something there. It's new.

It's fresh and makes you feel alive, quote unquote. I'm going to air quotes here. You know what I mean? It's the same thing with any new relationship. Before you keep going, let's take a quick break and we'll dive right back into it. You can't rely on blind faith to get the pregnancy support you deserve. Ritual's Essential Prenatal Multivitamin is the only leading prenatal backed by its own human clinical trial. Essential Prenatal is proven to deliver key nutrients, including folate, biotin, and vitamin D during pregnancy. Get 25% off when you visit ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended

to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. All right, so after the karaoke bar, Amber and Scott, they get back in his truck, and then they went to Food Max for a bottle of gin, and the party moved back to Scott's hotel room at the Radisson. As soon as they stepped into the room, Scott pressed his lips to Amber's and kissed her again, this time more passionately. Obviously, Amber spent the night with Scott. They made love. Later, Amber would say that they had protected sex that night, but many times when they had sex again in the future, they would not use protection. And this would raise a question about children and starting a family.

And did Scott want to have kids, et cetera, et cetera. And I'll talk about that in a second. Amber looked back at that evening and remembered that Scott had told her he felt it was appropriate to have sex their first meeting because their date had gone so well. So he basically was like, yes, I think it is completely appropriate to make love tonight because of the events of the evening. Like he said it in some really weird, formal way. And it just happened so organically. Yes. I mean, after tons and tons of gin and champagne. Right. And his brown duffel bag. The brown duffel bag. What else has he gotten there? He's got some like, I'm not even going to say it. So the next morning, Scott drove Amber back to her

car. It was still in the parking lot. And there was like a parking ticket on the windshield. And so she grabbed the parking ticket off and she gave it to him as a joke. She was like, this is a memento for you to remember me by. Scott looked at her very seriously. And he was like, listen, I don't consider our evening together a one night stand. I really like you. I want to see you again. But of course, he told her he was going to be very busy over the holiday season. Because remember, this is I want to see you again. But of course, he told her he was going to be very busy over the holiday season. Because remember, this is like mid-November. He said for Thanksgiving, he was going to Alaska with his father, his brother, and his uncle for fishing. He would be

in Kennebunkport, which is a coastal town in southern Maine for Christmas. He claimed this was- Kennebunk. Kennebunk? Yeah, you're probably saying- There's a port. Kennebunkport, yeah. I'll just say the first part, but Kennebunk Port, man, I've been there. Kennebunk Port. Okay. Yeah. So I'm glad you're correcting my pronunciation and not everybody in the comments. You know what? I usually don't because to me, it's like, you know,

it's okay. We're not from these places. And sometimes unless you're from there, you're not going to pronounce it exactly how it is. But you know what? I haven't pronounced, and the spelling police and the grammar police and the pronunciation police are killing us in the comments. Well, I spelled it right. Okay. I got that. You definitely did. You definitely did.

Absolutely. Scott claimed that going to Kennebunk. Kennebunk? Can I say it right? Kennebunk. He said this was something that he and his family did every year for Christmas. And then he said for the new year, he was going to be in Paris with some friends. And then he would spend a few weeks traveling to other European cities for work. He even gave her a European phone number where she could reach him. But this European number,

it ended up forwarding calls directly to his cell phone. Now, keep in mind, Scott only ever gave Amber his cell phone number. He never gave her his phone number because she had no idea he lived in Modesto. She thought he lived in Sacramento. So the same day that he dropped her off at the car, Scott called Amber later that afternoon. And he was like, I'm still in Fresno and I want to see you. But Amber, she was at work. She still had clients that day. And she was tired from the night before.

The next day, Scott called her again. He was like, I'm kicking myself because I really wanted to see you at least one more time before I left town. And then he told her he was reading a book about hiking in California. And he asked her if she would like to go on a hike with him when he came back. In reality, Scott was not fishing in Alaska on Thanksgiving. He was having dinner with his family, his parents, and his pregnant wife at Lee and Jackie's Solana Beach home. But Amber would have no way of knowing that. And Lacey would have no way of knowing about Amber because there's a picture of Scott at this Thanksgiving dinner.

And he looks completely fine. He looks happy. He's dressed in a red shirt. He's smiling. He's at ease. It's as if, you know, he was able to completely compartmentalize these two different women in his life. The relationship between Scott and Amber moved very quickly and it grew in intensity. On Monday, December 2nd, Scott called Amber and told her he was back in town and he wanted to know if she was ready for that hike. He showed up at her front door with flowers and a few bags of groceries. And he was like, I hope it's not too presumptuous. I got some items to make dinner for you tonight. Scott went into Amber's apartment and he was like, oh, I love it in here. It's so nice in here. It's so airy and

light. And then he asked where her daughter was. Remember, Amber has an 18-month-old daughter. And Amber said Ayana was at preschool, but she had to go and pick her up. And she wanted to know if maybe Scott would like to accompany her to the preschool and pick up her daughter. And he was like, yes, I would love to. So while they drove to the school, Amber asked Scott how Alaska had been. He said it was beautiful. And, you know, I'd love to take you there someday. And then he showed her a picture of himself standing by a stream holding a fish. Now this could be a picture of anywhere. Amber was like, I mean, there was like trees in the background, you know, like water could have been anywhere. Like I didn't see. She could have probably been

more disinterested either. She's like, great, you're holding a fish. Yeah, it could have been. He probably took it in California, to be honest, you know, and just told her it was Alaska, but he definitely didn't go to Alaska. When they got to the preschool, Amber introduced Scott to the director of the school, who apparently was also a friend of hers. And then they went and got Amber's daughter, who was very excited to be riding in Scott's truck. I guess she like ran up to the truck and she was, you know, she's 18 months old, so she doesn't have like a grasp on language yet, but she's like, truck, truck, truck, all excited. And Scott laughed and he was like, oh my God, Amber, your daughter is so adorable. She's so cute. And then all three,

they went to Squaw's Leap, which is a hiking trail. On the way up the trail, Ayana walked between her mother and Scott, holding firmly to both of their hands. They stopped after walking for a while and Scott laid out a blanket and some food he had brought for a picnic. Scott was very attentive with the little girl, Amber's daughter. He seemed happy playing with her. He even told her at one point, quote, look at me. I've got a rigor mortis smile, end quote, which I guess it's supposed to mean he had a smile that just like wouldn't go away. But it's like a weird thing to say regardless, right? Especially to like a child. Am am i am i reading into this i don't know if an 18 month old would know what a rigor mortis smile was but yeah i have once again scott's got some tricks up his sleeve i have never heard

before the whole like do you smoke pickup line and then the rigor mortis smile i i don't get it but it's funny because if he is somebody who may be like a sociopath or something, he's not really going to have like a real charm. It's going to be superficial charm. He's going to pick up these things and he's going to just watch other people and say, oh, this is what people think is charming. Let me mimic it. Right. So that could be where some of these awkward one liners come from. Yeah. Well, it's clearly it worked on someone because worked on a lot of people again i i highly doubt and as you've already said at the beginning this is a thing that he he was religiously cheating on on lacy you know i don't know if i'd say religiously but more than one more than one yeah yeah and so he's had some practice like he didn't go every

sunday and cheat on her you know what i right, right. On the way back to the truck, it was getting cooler and the sun was going down. Ayanna was tired from the walk. So Scott carried her most of the way back. And when they got to the truck, they all sat in the cab and watched the sun set together and then watched the stars come up. Scott made it a competition. He was like, let's see who can see the first star first. And then that person wins. Of course, Scott won. And by the time all the stars were high in the sky, the little 18-month-old girl had fallen asleep. Scott and Amber snuggled. They looked at the stars with the little girl

slumbering between them, and they talked about Thanksgiving. Scott told Amber that there were some relatives he didn't like, but he had to get along with them because they were family. Now, I wonder if he was talking about actual relatives, like in his family or was he talking about his wife, Lacey? And so it makes them more believable as liars. Big Brother reference for the people who are Big Brother fans. But when I was on Big Brother, I created a different character when I was on the show. Yes, you did. But I worked in parks and recreation for almost 10 years. So I was able to pull on past experiences that made my lie more believable to the other people I was playing against. And I think that holds true for any line of work, whether when I was a detective, when I was undercover, my last name was different, but my first name was always Derek. And it was because for me, I wanted to make sure that it was something that I always responded to if they called me by that name. So unless the case called for a different name, I always used my real name. So again, it was mixing my reality with this fake life I was creating for this particular investigation or in Big Brother's case for the game and i think that that's what scott was doing so i do believe that the relatives were either lacy or in-laws you know somebody who he didn't like i don't think he spent thanksgiving with his in-laws though it was his family his parents you know like his siblings and lacy okay so there so her in-laws were not there no

i mean her parents her parents weren't there herlaws were not there. No. I mean, her parents, I should say, were not there. Her parents weren't there. Her parents were not there. Okay. So yeah, I mean, either he's lying just to be relatable or yeah, he could be talking about Lacey for sure. Yeah. It's like when you're a writer, they say, write what you know. You're writing fiction, but you still want to write what you know so that it rings true. And I think that's what he's doing here. Quick thing about Amber, because I'm hearing this story and I'm hearing it for the first time. First off, how did you get all this? I mean, I'm sure it's from multiple sources, but how did, did she come out and tell this in a book or something? Yeah. So she wrote a book.

Because it's so detailed. She wrote a book. She wrote a book. Okay. It's a great book. So we got the book. It's, I mean, very good. I mean, I'm sure she had a ghostwriter or something help her out with it. Obviously I'm sure it sold a lot of copies. But I want to say up to this point, at least for Amber, you know, for anybody who's looking at Amber with a side eye, what a great start to a relationship under the stars with her daughter.

Exactly. I mean, it's like a dream star. Yeah. So I really feel for her up to this point. I don't know if that'll change as you continue. I'm still open to it from your expressions. I'm not thinking it's going to, but sucks to be her. I feel terrible for this girl, yeah. Yeah, he was pulling out all the cards, so nothing against her at all.

And thank God she told her story because it gives you some insight into him. But man, he was really pulling out all the stops. And these stories you're talking about sound like they're out of a movie. So he really was rolling out the red carpet, so to speak. That's the thing, man. Scott, he creates these fantasies. You know, I think he takes cues from movies and stuff because it's too freaking perfect. It really is.

And yes, Amber wrote a book. I read it three times. It's very good. She also, obviously, I've gone through court testimony, all the transcripts of her testimony. So she repeats a lot of the same stuff in the testimony that she does in the book. But obviously in the book, it's a lot more detailed. So I do suggest that everybody read the book that Amber wrote, if you're interested. Or you can just listen to Crime Weekly because Stephanie Harlow's got you got you covered i mean there's some stuff in there that she tells that

i couldn't put in because it's just like it would be so long but we might as well just do a whole dude podcast i'm saying man i could just do a whole podcast on this case like yeah 35 40 episodes well we're gonna probably do four or five maybe six parts maybe 20 i don't know okay but uh after all of this right they go back to Amber's home. And Scott pulled her aside. He was like, listen, you know, I got a gift for your daughter. But, you know, it's the first time I'm meeting her. So I want to make sure if you think it's appropriate.

Like I wanted to run it by you first. And Amber was like, of course. That's so sweet. Like, yes, you absolutely should. Ayanna loves you. She's really taken to you. Now, the gift that he got, that Scott got for Amber's daughter, was a beautifully illustrated Christmas pop-up book. And Ayanna sat in Scott's lap as he read it to her. After that, Scott began preparing dinner, an elaborate seafood casserole. And he opened a bottle of wine and poured himself and Amber a glass. Amber asked if she could have the cork. She said, you know, a friend of hers like would keep corks from different wine bottles. And then the friend would like write, you know, the date on the cork and who they were with when they when they had the bottle of wine. So she

wanted to start doing that. And Scott was like, well, did you save the cork from the first bottle of champagne that we shared together? And Amber was like, no, unfortunately, you know, I didn't think about it at the time. And Scott said, don't worry, there'll be plenty of corks to come. No, you know, that's a corny line. But I will say the affirmation that he received from her that whatever illusion he was creating was working was affirmed right there. He was like, I got you. I got you. Because if you're saving corks from our time together, I got you right where I want you.

Well, looking back on what seemed to be a perfect day that had transitioned into a perfect evening, Amber said, quote, I felt unusually comfortable around Scott as if I'd known him for a long time. I didn't feel I had to try to be someone other than who I was. And it seemed he felt very much the same way. In a word, being with Scott was effortless." Let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back and it gets worse. You can't rely on blind faith to get the pregnancy support you deserve. Ritual's Essential Prenatal Multivitamin is the only leading prenatal backed by its own human clinical trial. Essential Prenatal is proven to deliver key nutrients, including folate, biotin, and vitamin D during pregnancy. Get 25% off when you visit ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Okay, so we're back. Before we dive in, do you have any thoughts about everything that's happening? Or do you want to just hear more? No, I mean, it's kind of what I said about the cork, right? That quote that before the break that we took, you know, in a word, being with scott was effortless he was trying to make her dreams come true he i don't think it was just for sex at this point i think he like really loved the idea of new relationships yep like you had said earlier because if it was just for sex right he wouldn't have put this much effort in no he already

had it he already got what he wanted if that's all it was. I don't think you spend as much time as you do trying to win over the 18-month-old as a mission, then he's already accomplished it. He doesn't need to do all that. This is all extra. So as you're telling more of the story, it really does feel like Scott was someone who also loved love in a way. I don't know how to explain it, but he loved the idea of a new woman and a new know a new relationship and how how you know fresh and you're learning something new every day like i think he was in i think he was in love with that yes and so as you said earlier about lacy once he's had already gone through that phase with her he was looking to experience what he had felt with her with someone else yeah and lacy was pregnant like that's her most important the most important man in her life as soon as she became pregnant was her son, Connor. Yep. That's it. Exactly. So he has this new. Yeah. I think he sensed that, right? Yep. He's got this new woman and he's getting to experience the feelings that we all experience with a new relationship. They're awesome. Absolutely awesome. And some of us just go,

well, you know, that time has passed for me and it's time to grow up. And for Scott, it was like, no, I'm just going to keep, I'm going to keep redoing it. You know, I can hell up. Like just deal with it. Your time will come again. Like the baby will be born. Things will settle down and you can reconnect with your wife, but he doesn't want to do that. It's too much work. All right. I'm getting judgmental. Let's move on. Do you also think though that it's like the excitement of the newness, like the unknown? Yeah. Like getting to know this person, their likes, their dislikes, how sometimes you're not as comfortable. You're not as sure of what they like and what they don't like. And you're learning new things about them. Every time they speak, you don't have that when you've been with someone for multiple years, some days it's a little monotonous where it's like, listen, I know this person and it's not as exciting, you know? And I think that's, that's part of, part of what he yearned for was having this unknown with these new women and learning about them and trying to impress them

where when you've been with someone for a while, a good meal and early bedtime is a win. It's all you can really ask for. It's like, I'm good. But I also think he really loved being loved, right? He liked being adored and he liked being idolized. That's what Amber gave him. It's interesting though, because initially I would have thought this was just for sex. No. And I'm already starting to develop a different opinion as far as what really, what really

motivated him. It's so much more twisted. So their time together did not end there. Scott spent the night at Amber's and the next day he called her and he was like, listen, I'm going to be back in Fresno this evening. Amber was working late that night. So she asked Scott if he wouldn't mind picking her daughter up from preschool because she was working late and she wouldn't be out at the time that Ayanna needed to be picked up. This is the one place that I'll say like, Amber, not great judgment. I love Amber. I feel really

bad for her. Not great judgment here, Amber. You just met this dude a couple of days ago. I know he told you he has a house in Sacramento. You got no receipts for any of this stuff he's telling you. You got no receipts that he actually even has a home. Dude could literally be living out of his truck and you don't know and you're having him pick up your daughter from preschool. All right, I'm going to stop again. So she gave Scott Ayanna's car seat and a copy of the key to their apartment. When Amber got home that evening, she saw her daughter sitting happily in her high chair and Scott was in the kitchen chopping up tomatoes for bruschetta. When she walked in, he greeted her with a big smile and a glass of wine. Amber said Scott welcomed her home like it was the most natural

thing in the world for him. She said, quote, I looked over at Ayanna. She was happy and smiling. Then I looked back at Scott. This handsome man was beaming at me and the place was filled with all sorts of wonderful homey cooking smells. I felt like I had a family, a real family, end quote. So did you ever see that movie, that Ted Bundy movie with Zac Efron? Yeah. On one hand, it was good. On the other hand, I hate that they made Ted Bundy so cool by having him played by the super good looking Zac Efron. But that's a side note. Yes, I have seen it. So this is exactly what it reminded me of. Remember that scene where Ted Bundy moves in with his girlfriend and she's got a little daughter and then they do this whole montage of

him playing ball with the little girl and blowing out her birthday candles with her. This is exactly what it reminded me of. Amber was a single mother. She'd been doing all of this stuff on her own. No one took care of her, but suddenly she's got this guy here, and he's helping her with parental duties,

and he's having dinner on the table when she gets home after a long day. He's turning her house into a home home and she really so badly wanted that. And it makes me feel so bad for her. So bad for her. Because I've been in that. I've been in that situation. I was a single mother for many, many years and I didn't trust anybody and I wasn't opening up my home to anyone. But like if somebody like Scott had come along and he's pouring me wine when I walk in, I mean, all you got to do is really pour me a glass of wine when I walk inside. And I'm yours forever.

But like that would have been so great, you know. So I really I feel for her here. Yeah, no. And I think Scott being a salesman, someone who, you know, his job was reading people, you know, finding ways to incentivize them. I think he realized very early on through initial conversation, what Amber was looking for. She was looking for a husband and a father to her daughter. And he was going to give her that. He was going to give her exactly what she wanted because he knew how to do that. He was already kind of doing it with another woman, you know, other than Connor not being born yet. And,

you know, so I did take a lot from that. I also took from that, that Bruschetta, as I know, is actually pronounced Bruschetta. And I'm not going to dispute the Italian over here. So that's something new I learned tonight as well. Yeah. Don't ever say it like that again. Okay. Now I feel like my whole life is a lie.

I'm going to actually go into the comment section of this video and yell at you in caps that you pronounced bruschetta wrong. Yeah. No, me and Amber have something in common. I was definitely wrong. Well, after they ate dinner, Scott, Amber, and her daughter, they went to go get a Christmas tree. So while they're at the tree farm, Amber said she had to go pay for the tree. And Scott and Ayanna hung out by the bonfire and they checked out the petting zoo. So anybody who's been to like a tree farm, this is very common.

They usually have like a little bonfire going. They got like goats and sheep and stuff and, you know, hot cocoa. It's super fun. I love it. So Scott and Amber's daughter were hanging out by the bonfire. And the owner of the farm approached them as soon as Amber got back and basically assumed that Scott was Ayanna's father. And he was like, oh, your parents bundled you up so nicely. You know, he thought they were like this happy little family. And this really, it started planting something in Amber's head, obviously. When they brought the tree back to

Amber's place, they decorated it. And Scott asked Amber to tell him all the stories behind why each ornament was special. And Amber said, quote, even that impressed me. The fact that he knew that Christmas ornaments are often connected to stories. End quote. I hate to admit it. Like, if this dude had walked into my life and done this, I would have fallen for it, too. I absolutely would have.

I'm falling for it. I'm like, damn, he was on his A game. Right. I mean, he really was. he was on his a-game right i mean he really was he was on his a-game even the you know like you said the christmas i mean i always have to go back to he's doing all this and then i gotta keep in perspective that while he's doing this his pregnant wife that's what i'm saying that's what i was just thinking derrick same mind same mind i was like is anybody else wondering what Lacey's doing when all this is happening? Where's he telling her he is?

Is she wondering? Is she calling him? Is she trying to contact him at any point during this day? And he's just not answering? Well, I'm sure he had a backstory where he was on a business trip, maybe out of range. No service. No service, whatever the case may be. But yeah, I'm glad that you're going to such depths with this because you can see the amount of work and effort that Scott put into this. And, you know, it's, it's compelling because when we go back to again, why we're here,

you know, trying to understand what happened to Lacey Peterson and who was responsible for what happened to her. We're looking at a guy who is very charismatic, very easy to root for in a certain way. If you take away what we're here for, as far as how he's treating this woman and her child, but we have to remember that he's a husband to our victim. And while he's doing this, she's still at home. And this is only what we're talking about less than a month before her, her disappearance. This is the beginning of December. It's the same month. So there we go. So there we go. So when you put that in context and you put that in perspective as to why you and I are here talking about this, it becomes extremely relevant. This isn't just a, a story of infidelity. This, like I said at the very beginning, allows us to understand a possible motive. And we still got a lot more to go. But again, just to bring it back to that, we're not sitting here talking about how romantic this was. There's a deeper purpose to doing this. And this is the same thing we would be doing if you and I worked for the FBI or a local police department, all these stories, although they would be in the form of a witness statement or an interview from Amber, we would be going

through this because every single piece of it is important. Yeah. And like it is it is he's being romantic. Like, I'm not going to deny that he's being romantic and he's being purposely romantic. Every single one of my Christmas ornaments has a special story behind it. The second he asked me, what's the story behind the Christmas ornaments? I would have been like, when are we getting married, man? Like no man would ever ask that.

No man would ever even realize that. Like he has done work to make sure that he's perceived as the perfect guy. You know why else this is important? Why? Again, as a detective, if you're looking at this and this is pre-interview with Scott

or even post-interview with Scott, where you're going to have a follow-up with him. If I'm hearing these stories about how good he is at reading people and giving them the information they're looking for without them saying they're looking for it, I'm going to be very aware of him in an interrogation or an interview because I realize I'm not dealing with a rookie. You're not dealing with an average Joe, right? Nope. This guy is reading me as much as I'm reading him. And it's something you have to be cognizant of when you're in there because these guys can trip you up. They really can.

And they can make you believe what they're selling. So it's something where reading this or hearing this from Amber as the investigator, I'd be very wary of my interrogation with him understanding that this guy is not your average Joe who is not prepared for this. Although he's not a detective, he is someone who makes a living on finding commonalities with these clients so that they end up buying bags of shit basically. So clearly he's good. I hate to say that.

I'm not trying to be vulgar but you know hopefully i don't get demonetized for that but that's the truth so you know it's really fascinating stuff from a mental perspective from a psychological perspective understanding what scott is capable of when it comes to communicating with others it's it's funny it's strange to me because when amber's talking about him, he seems to be this like super like emotionally attuned guy. Like he's very good at relating to other people. But the thing that the jury would later hate about him the most was he showed zero emotion. Like he just sat there through the testimony with the same look on his face the whole time.

He showed emotion maybe twice, maybe three times during the entire trial. But the rest of the time, he was just very stoic. And the jury was like, you know, what are you doing? Like, you have no emotion. Your wife and your son are dead. And you're sitting here like, you know, this is a morning meeting at your job. What's happening? So I don't know why he couldn't turn that on for the jury. but he was so able to do it with Amber. I'm not sure what's up with that. I mean, maybe we could speak to the real way to describe him, which is an emotional, but more calculated. Calculated, yes. So they decorate the Christmas tree.

Afterwards, Scott's tired, you know, all the cooking and wine pouring. So he relaxed on the love seat, and Amber snuggled with him, and they talked. Amber said she had a hard time believing that a man like Scott had never been married. So she asked him, are you sure you've never been married? And he was like, no, no, I've never been married. I've never even been close to getting married. They also talked about children because, you know, at this point, like they're having unprotected sex. And Scott told Amber he did not want biological children of his own. In court, Amber testified saying, quote, he suggested having a vasectomy versus me having the burden of taking birth control pills. I felt that was a very permanent birth control method for him to be that young and to make a decision like that was disturbing to me, end quote. So she tries to talk him out of it at some point. She's like, you know, maybe I want kids with you. And he's like, no, you know, your daughter's enough. Like, I'm just happy to

raise your daughter. Like, I don't want to have kids. And she's like, well, will you think about it? Will you change your mind? He's like, probably not. You know, so that's interesting. They also discussed the terms of their relationship. Scott was like, yeah, I'm going to definitely be monogamous with you. And when we introduce each other to other people, we should introduce ourselves as lovers. He said he wanted her to tell people he was her lover. Amber said she preferred to say that he was her boyfriend. And Scott was like, yeah, that works too. That's fine. Amber said, quote, I didn't know what I had done to deserve this wonderful man. He was smart, charming and sexy. He treated me with respect and kindness and he was absolutely great with Ayana. I knew it was still early in the relationship, but I began to see us making a life together. Maybe I was rushing things in my mind anyway, but I was almost certain I was rushing to a beautiful place. End quote. Poor girl. I don't want to keep interjecting because I know, but we'll be here for seven hours, but I have to, because it's just running through

my mind. You know, the angle he's playing here, I'm trying to understand his angle. I'm trying to read the chessboard and I'm looking at this chessboard and I'm seeing his end game is to be with her and have her never find out about Lacey or Connor. I think that's right. I mean, it's like what I'm trying to, I'm trying to read him as much as he's, you know, reading others, you know, it sounds like if I were in an, if he was looking at it, like, I really want to be with this woman, Amber, and there's going to be a point where I'm going to have to tell her the truth and divorce Lacey. And, you know, that could be an angle too, where he's like, I'm going to start to get into the idea that maybe there's something else. And

maybe his end game was, Hey, listen, I want to tell you, I was technically still married, but we were already kind of on the outs and I want to be with you. I'm getting in a divorce. I do have a son that I'm going to take care of, but I'd want to be with you and your daughter. But it sounds like from this conversation, he wants to completely just remove himself from the idea that he has a son on the way or would ever want a son or daughter in the future. And so I'm asking myself, how are you going to pull that off? If you're really into this woman, how do you pull that off where you start this life with her

while ending the life with lacy and connor i think i think he wanted to keep both of them at the same time and we've heard stories like that where men have like multiple families in like different states right so i think he he figured lacy knows he works a lot and he travels a lot for work amber knows knows that too, because he's already set that narrative. I basically live out of my vehicle. He's talking about how he's going to sell his townhouse or whatever in San Diego. So maybe one day he's like, you know what? I'm just going to sell my place in Sacramento too, because I love your apartment. It's so airy. It's so light. And this is enough for us since I'm always on the road anyways. I think he really

initially was planning to just keep them separate and go to Amber's on the weekends and spend the week with Lacey. And I don't know what happened when Amber wanted to get married. I don't know what he was going to do, like make a fake wedding ceremony. I don't know. No, I love that you're thinking that way. That's great because I'm looking at it like, well, one motive is he's or one intention is he's going to end up taking Lacey and Connor out of the equation. Right. But you're also bringing up another possibility, which is very viable, which he was going to try to live a double life.

Yes. And, you know, so I think that's good that we're like, all right, I get where people would read that and go, oh, he's planning on killing Lacey and Connor. He's going to make them irrelevant as far as the situation's concerned. Or- You may think that shortly. Yeah. Like I said, that's why I'm going there. But I also love that you're bringing up the idea that at this point, maybe he's thinking, I'm going to have two different lives, two different women, and that I'm so good, they're never going to find out. So fascinating stuff. I'll let you keep going. But yeah, we're going to be here for six hours.

Well, as it got later that night, Scott was like, you know, I'm tired. I should get going so I can check into a hotel. Yeah, right, dude. Like he ever thought Amber was going to let him stay in a hotel. And of course, he was like, don't be silly. You know, you're staying here tonight. And Scott was like, it's so peaceful. Like, I love your home.

It's so peaceful. I just enjoy sitting on the couch watching you and your daughter play and interact. Like, I love your home. It's so peaceful. I just enjoy sitting on the couch, watching you and your daughter play and interact. Like, I love it here. So he spent the night. And the next morning, Amber is like, done. You know, she's sold. And she kissed him. And she told him, you know, I really like you.

And I am going to an art show tonight. I'd like for you to come with me. Scott was like, unfortunately, I have to be in San Francisco this afternoon. And then after I'm going boating with some friends. So I probably won't make it back to Fresno until the weekend, the following weekend. Amber said to Scott, well, listen, I have a Christmas party to go to on December 11th. You know, a Christmas party that their mutual friend, their now mutual friend Sean Sibley was throwing.

And Amber said she had another party to attend on the 14th. This was like fancier. It was a fundraising event. And Scott told her he would love to accompany her to both of these events. And then he drove her to her new office because she was just switching offices. She got a new office and he helped her like set everything up. And she said, oh, you know, he was like so handy. He was good with tools like that really impressed me.

So once everything was set up, like the massage table and everything, Amber gave Scott a massage. She said it was super professional. She treated him like she'd treat any of her other clients. And then after this, he drove her to an ATM and he withdrew money to pay for the massage and even gave her a 20% tip, even though she said, no, I don't want money. It's not a house. He insisted. And so he gave her this cash. I would have felt a little bit like an escort, but okay. So afterwards, they went to Whole Foods for lunch. And Scott told Amber that he had this big kitchen in his Sacramento house, and he would love to cook for her in that kitchen someday. Fascinating stuff. Fascinating stuff. I mean, like you said, she was sold was sold he knew he had her and he's just continuing to lay it on he's just laying it on there like you said buying her you know

trying to support her financially keeps talking about this home and sack i don't know how he planned on pulling all this off but you know maybe he's gonna buy a house in sacramento or rent a place and i don't know he was gonna pivot maybe he's gonna pivot who knew you know writing a lot of checks i don't know if his wallet could cash i don't know but um before you keep going we got to keep it we got to keep keep the lights on here let's take one final break and then i promise for the rest of this episode which is still a lot to go there's no more so one final break we'll get right back into it okay we are back uh uninterrupted for the next pretty much half of this video but um now on to december 2nd so when scott was laying out picnic lunches for his new girlfriend and her baby

daughter so we're kind of going back right to december 2nd sean sibley was calling around i remember sean sibley is amber's friend and she was doing what a good friend does. She's checking into the new man that her bestie was dating. She called Eric Olson, Scott's employee who'd been with him at the trade show. Sean asked Eric, you know, is Scott married? Is he hiding some big secret? Like, is he what he says he is? And Eric, he didn't want to get involved. Like Scott's technically his boss. So he's not going to tell Sean like, yeah, dude's married, has a baby on the way. So Eric was like, you really need to talk to Scott about that. Four days later, on December 6th, Sean found out from a man named Mike Elmarcy, who worked at our company, that he had interviewed with a Scott Peterson at Trade Corps the previous summer.

Mike said that this Scott Peterson was married and he didn't live in Sacramento. He lived in Modesto with his wife. Sean said immediately she freaked out and she said, quote, I figured there's not two Scott Petersons at Trade Corps. The world is too small a place for that, end quote. So she like rushed outside her office building

and she called Scott to confront him, but she got his voicemail. So she left a message saying, I hear she called Scott to confront him, but she got his voicemail. So she left a message saying, I hear you're married. What's up with that? He called her back like lickety right within the hour. And when Sean answered the phone, she said Scott began sobbing and he begged Sean to let him tell Amber himself and in person. Scott told Sean that he was so sorry he lied, but he'd lost his wife and he didn't know how to tell Amber. At this point, Sean felt kind of embarrassed, right? She was like, you know,

I don't care if you're divorced or you're widowed. I only care if you're like currently married at this point, to which Scott responded, oh, no, of course not. Sean ended up like apologizing. And she told Scott that, you know, yeah, she would let him tell Amber in his own way and on his own time. So some reports claim that Sean told Scott he had until Monday to tell Amber or she would do it. And it does make sense with the timeline. There's different variations of this story. Sean said that she like got some software that she paid $30 for online so she could look up marriage records and see if Scott was married. But she was looking in like Sacramento because that's where he said he lived and she didn't find anything.

But in Amber's book, Amber said that Sean did find out Scott was married. So I'm not sure which to believe. However, Sean either way told Scott like, yes, you can tell Amber yourself. This conversation between Scott and Sean happened on December 6th. And the next day, which was Saturday, December 7th, Scott was on his computer browsing through ads that had boats for sale. Now, later, the prosecution would allege that Scott wanted to buy a boat because he already knew what he was going to do. As soon as Sean confronted him, he was like, okay, I have to kill Lacey and I need a boat to do this. But his lawyers argued that Scott had owned many boats throughout his life.

I think this would be like the fourth boat he had ever owned. And he'd grown up going out on boats. His family always had one. The police also talked to three of Scott's friends who confirmed that Scott had been planning to buy a boat for some time. This guy named Guy Maligi, he was a family friend, and he testified that Scott was one of the nicest guys he'd ever met. He said that in the weeks leading up to Lacey's disappearance, she and Scott had several get-togethers at their home for the holidays, and Guy was surprised to see how different their house looked from when they had purchased it and he'd been there last.

Guy said, quote, Scott remodeled the entire house, doing woodwork, tile, plumbing, a little bit of everything. I know he put a lot of hours into making that baby room just right. He was real excited about having his first child. He talked about that all the time, end quote. Guy would tell the police that he and Scott had discussed buying a ski boat together far before December of 2002, End quote. a boat one to three weeks before Thanksgiving, and another friend of Scott's, Brian Ulrich, told detectives that Scott had been talking about buying a boat for three months. So on December 7th, around 4.40 in the evening, Scott looked through three classified ads for boats, and he would settle on the third one, which was a 14-foot aluminum game fisher. He bought it for $1,400,

and it was owned by a man named Bruce Peterson, no relation to Scott, just the same last name. The boat was equipped with two fishing chairs, two rod holders, a trolling motor, and a fish finder. And Bruce Peterson would later testify that when Scott came to pick up the boat, he showed him like how the fish finder worked and he showed him how to turn the motor on, but he never actually turned on the motor. And he told Scott that the boat had not been in the water since September. Bruce also said that he told Scott he himself, Bruce, had never used this boat in saltwater, and he wasn't sure if the motor would even work in saltwater.

Bruce also told the court that he did not include the mushroom anchor that he had been using with the boat when he sold the boat to Scott. Supporters of Scott Peterson argue that if Scott's main concern was to buy a secret boat to dump a body out of, he could have gotten a much cheaper one, you know, for less money. And he wouldn't have needed all the bells and whistles. He wouldn't need, like, the fishing accessories and the fishing seats and stuff like that, The fish finder, which I know ups the price of the boat. Additionally, supporters of Scott say that he knew the boat had never been used in salt water. So this would have been a great risk for him to take. If the whole reason for getting the boat was to like go out in the bay and dump Lacey's

body out, he would want to make sure that it worked in salt water before doing it. And he had never put the boat in the water himself until December 24th. They also point out that the boat did have a fish finder on it, which will indicate how deep the water is. So if Scott had access to this tool, why would he have left Lacey's body in an area that would get as shallow as three feet at low tide? And we will talk more about the boat in future episodes, but what do you think about this boat thing? Because I know you fish. You tell me that you fish sometimes, so you're probably familiar with the stuff I'm talking

about. Fish all the time. Fish all the time. I actually, two summers ago, I bought a, what are you laughing about? You're like, fish all the time. Fish all the time. I do. Love fishing. Why are you going to? You're like fish all the time. Fish all the time. I do love fishing.

Why are you going to make fun of me? But I actually, for first off, I think in here, as I'm reading along with you, I think it was actually, you said 1400. I think you meant 1400 foot boat. It was $1,500 for the boat, right? No, well, so I corrected myself because some sources say 1500,,500, but Amber said $1,400. And during the trial, they said $1,400. I don't think it really matters, but either way.

The reason I even bring it up, it doesn't matter. But the reason I bring it up, whether it's $1,400, $1,500, that's super cheap for a boat. That's nothing. My boat, I bought a new boat, but it had a fish finder and a trolling motor and an anchor and all that stuff. It was $21,000. Well, this is 2002, man. Inflation. Inflation. Not that much. I can tell you right now, not that much. $1,500. Again, it's not cheap. I'm not saying everyone just has $1,500 to throw around, especially in 2002, but it's not like you went and bought a yacht to go up. So it was a used boat. And as far as the saltwater claim, I think I know what the seller meant by that.

It wasn't that it wouldn't work. So boats have motors on the back of them, and they basically don't have radiators, most of them. So the engines are cooled or the motors are cooled by the water that they're in. So it sucks up the water. It goes through the motor, and it cools the motor down so it doesn't overheat. So when you have a boat that's not saltwater cooled or made to take saltwater, when you have salt mixed with metal, it's going to corrode the motor. So it wouldn't work over the longterm, but it wouldn't go into the water. And the minute he started it up and started driving around, it's going to go, Oh, I can't work in saltwater. It's still going to use the saltwater to cool the engine, but down

the road, it would probably cause the engine to cease. So I could make the argument that he didn't care about the fact that it was going to ruin the motor because he was only planning on using the boat once or twice. So depending on where you're coming from, you can make this story about the sale of this boat fit your narrative. So for me, I go back before the boat and the fact that he said my wife was dead to a woman again. No, he didn't say she was dead. What did he say? Give me the exact words. He never said she was dead.

He said he had lost his wife. Okay. So that's important. He said I had lost my wife. Yeah. He had lost his wife. Okay. So that's important. He said, I had lost my wife. So for me, if he's saying that, is he just a pathological liar trying to buy an extra day or two, or is he setting up a narrative for something he's going to elaborate on further once he checks off a couple more boxes? You guys come to your own conclusion what those boxes are.

But, you know, it seemed like he really liked Amber and he's a smart enough guy to know that buying an extra day or two by saying he lost his wife is not going to help him. So you could make a very strong argument that he had something in motion. He just hadn't executed it yet. And so therefore he was just trying to buy a little bit more time with Sean so that when he finally, quote unquote, revealed his true story to Amber, he would actually have a story to back that up where he could say, yes, see, my wife's gone. She's missing or whatever it is, where he could kind of blend the two together.

I guess. But the time, the time wouldn't match up, right? It wouldn't. But maybe he felt like he was such a good speaker. He could kind of explain it a way where he could also sean a good liar a good liar yeah yeah he was a good liar and he could say to sean no sean you misunderstood me you know he could put it on her because it's her word against his right amber she misunderstood what i said i told her you know this is what i actually said to her. So, you know, the boat is an interesting time.

I do believe that there's probably a lot of truth to the fact that Scott had been mentioning to friends that he had been looking to buy a boat for a while. I sold the boat that I just mentioned to you the next summer. Cause I want to buy a saltwater boat. I had a freshwater boat. Um, and I mentioned to my friends on a weekly basis that I'm all, I'm always looking for a good deal on a boat. Cause you know, the best thing they say about buying a boat is the day you buy it and the day you sell it. So I'm always looking at, I'm always looking at buying a new boat. So for me, him saying that he was planning on buying a boat over those few months, doesn't give any, doesn't give anything to me where I go, Oh, then clearly he couldn't have been buying this boat for nefarious purposes.

No way. So, you know, we understand why his lawyers are bringing it up. They're just trying to plant reasonable doubt. Of course. Yeah. But like I said, and that's why I'm saying the opposite, where it's like the guy said it wouldn't work probably long term in the salt water. Not for once or twice if you just had a specific thing that you wanted to do and you only needed the boat to work for.

The other thing too was the fish finder. Um, I don't know what to take of that. I don't know what to take to make it that. Yeah. You can see the depth of the water. I don't know what his rationale would have been behind that. Sometimes the depth finders don't work that great.

It depends on the transponder that's located on the bottom of the boat. So I don't know. I don't look too much into it. And let's say he is dumping his wife into the bay. Is he going to turn that fish finder on? Like, I don't know i don't look too much into it and let's say he is dumping his wife into the bay is he gonna turn that fish finder on like and have proof i don't know have proof that like where he was wouldn't it like send some sort of signal or have some sort of like log to show where he was exactly maybe not a signal unless they had like the gpns like navionics uh hooked up to it which i'm assuming on a 1500 boat they didn't yeah but after she goes missing they're gonna look at it right yeah they would have they would have a log they

would definitely have a log in the the brain of the of the fish finder and i was even thinking like maybe he didn't buy a cheaper boat because that would look even more suspicious like oh yeah i just bought a boat for a one-time use you know it's gonna look less suspicious if he buys a boat and then his wife goes missing and then he keeps using this boat after she goes missing because then it doesn't look like he just bought it to dump her body in the bay. I would like to know what he's paid for past boats. You know what I mean? What has he paid? Is that a normal price that he would pay for his boats? He's had so many. Apparently, he bought and sold boats all the time. That's what his father said. So hear me out. If all the boats that he had bought in the past were boats that he intended on

keeping for a while and they were all three to $7,000, why do you suddenly buy this cheaper boat for 1500? Right. And conversely, if all the other boats that he bought were around the same price, then I do think there's some validity to the argument that, you know, this was a common thing for him, but I would really like to know what the sale prices of those previous boats

were because if he actually intended on using it for the purpose of fishing and the average cost was between three and five or three or four and seven this is an outlier this is an outlier for this purchase for him and then it starts to bring up questions for me as an investigator as to why he settled on this cheaper boat unless he intended on not having it for very long. Well, what's the most telling for me is that he speaks to Sean on December 6th and she's like, you got to tell Amber, you've got till Monday, right? And the next day he's buying a boat. Right. Yeah. And I think that's on top of him saying I lost my wife. So when you start to take it in totality, I think it's painting a picture of what his intentions really were. And I think that's why, just like our speed pipe earlier,

this episode where the people from, of Modesto know everything that we're talking about right now, because obviously it was their backyard. So I'm sure they were very involved with the books and all the things that came out. And that's why they feel so strongly about the fact that Scott killed his wife. And you start hearing these little things and it does start to paint a picture. Again, not jumping to any conclusions, but very telling information. Well, the prosecution would also show the jury evidence that the next day on Sunday, December 8th, 2002, Scott spent about 30 minutes looking on the Internet for places where boats could be launched that were within a few hours drive of his home in Modesto. So he looked up, you know, three or four different places that were like on San Francisco Bay.

And it happened to be that Berkeley Marina was one of those places. Scott also researched water currents in the bay, according to Modesto police officer Kirk Stockham. Later, this evidence would apparently come into question. And Scott's lawyer, Mark Garagos, claimed that Scott had been looking up information about currents on December 5th, the day before he was confronted by Sean Sibley. And we're going to get into these specifics when we go into the trial, but it's not as simple as either side

makes it seem. Because if Scott had been looking up currents on December 5th, Mark Garakos has, you know, that reasonable doubt, like, well, he was looking up currents before Sean Sibley gave him that ultimatum. So why would, what would that have to do with, you know, Lacey? And I don't even think that argument can be made because he was still having an affair with Amber. He was still basically telling her they were going to be together. They were talking about having kids or not having kids. So there would still be a motive to get rid of his wife, correct? Oh, yeah. I mean, the point, simply put, he could have been planning this before being confronted by Sean. Exactly. It might not have been a turning point. I think he probably knew at some point it was going to get back to Amber. So he might have

already had a plan in motion. Sean just expedited that process because he realized, you know what, I got figured out sooner than I thought. But I mean, yeah, him looking up currents the day before, looking at boats means absolutely nothing because if he was planning on killing his wife, if he did kill Lacey, the plan may have been kind of something that he'd been thinking about for weeks leading up to the conversation with Sean. So that doesn't mean anything to me. But Gagarios, for those of you who don't know, he's a very – he's a good lawyer. He's a very good lawyer. I mean, that's open to interpretation, but I will say this. He's like a Jose Baez.

He's like a Jose Baez. He's like a Jose Baez. You know, he's a showman. He's a showman. He gives a good show in the courtroom. I guess the jury likes him because he's, you know, waving his arms around and being all dramatic and shit. But yeah, Gary goes is a high price lawyer. I will say that he's someone that a lot of the celebrities use. And, you know, because he knows the system.

He knows the system he knows the system so um i thought that was very interesting because the garrigos isn't just doing the normal everyday joe case but it's weird because in his appeal scott basically said like i need a new lawyer because my my lawyer mark garrigos didn't like do a good job in the trial but you see mark garrigos because we were just talking about i was looking on twitter and scott's uh sister-in-law is you know posting updates about the trial and stuff and garagos is in the comments being like yeah you know i i hope it goes well like i see that this happened like he's still keeping up with it basically scott threw him under the bus and was like you didn't do a good job in my trial so it's weird it's interesting yeah i remember you sent me

that screenshot of garagos um either way really telling he must have had some money in the bank somewhere because i'm sure he um garagos wasn't cheap i'm pretty sure his parents paid for that well there you go uh scott spent all his money on massages and 20 tips zing on december 9th so this is the day after he's looking up currents allegedly scott goes to see amber so she said he showed up at her apartment looking very serious and he told her that he really needed to talk to her. Amber said he was very upset and distraught and he said he had done something that could possibly destroy their beautiful, blossoming relationship. Scott told Amber it would be so much easier if she just hated him and didn't want to see him ever again. And then he started crying. Amber said he was crying so hard

that he was having a hard time swallowing and tears were like pouring out of his eyes. Scott confessed that he had lied. He had been married before, but he had lost his wife. So, of course, Amber assumed that Scott's wife had died. You know, she says in the book, like, I wanted to ask him, like, how did it happen? But I didn't think that was my place. It was none of my business. So Amber ends up apologizing to Scott. She's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry that happened. It must have been very hard for you. I understand.

And Scott looks surprised. And he was like, you're not mad? And Amber said, how could I possibly be mad? You experienced this great loss. And it's like your private business. And Scott responded that this would be his first Christmas without his wife. Scott told Amber it was very hard and he never talked about it with anyone. And when he met new people, he just acted like his marriage never happened.

It was easier for him that way. Yeah. I mean, what am I supposed to say here? What am I really supposed to say? I mean, I did not know this line before you just said it. And I'm writing as you're talking. And I literally just wrote first Christmas without his wife. And it was, wasn't it? Yeah. And the only person that would have known it would have been his first Christmas without his wife, would be someone who had intended on getting rid of Lacey. Before Christmas.

Before Christmas. And so I don't think that we don't, I don't have to pound this into the pavement. It's a self-explanatory statement. I don't know if there's any other way you can really look at it. I'm sure someone, if you can, please comment down below, let us know. But this guy saying that this was going to be the first Christmas without his wife while she's still alive, which we know that before that Christmas, she would disappear and later be found dead. Not a good look. I mean, is there a small inkling of a possibility at this point where it could just be a real poor choice of words if he wasn't involved. Yeah, sure. But up to this point, as we're here only on episode two of the series, that right there is definitely something I'm sure, as you're going to tell us, the prosecution drove into the jury's minds quite often because that's a very damning statement

to make, especially when you consider the timing of it. Yeah. To play devil's advocate. Please. Because I don't got nothing. So he's lying, right? He's specifically choosing his words. He never tells Sean or Amber, my wife died. I am a widow. He never says that. He keeps saying she's dead. Nope. He keeps saying I lost my wife. Okay. So it's the first week. It's the end of the first week in December. He's now got to tell the story to Amber. She's very understanding, which I don't think he expected. So now he's trying to play up the sympathy. And Christmas, it's three weeks away. It's the next holiday. It's the next big holiday. So he says,

it's going to be my first Christmas without my wife, without her like this is the first time. So it's possible that unknowingly he like predicted the future just because he was lying and he was trying to make it this sympathetic thing. It's like maybe a less than a 1% chance that that's the case, though. But to play devil's advocate, it's possible. You know, he'd be very unlucky for that to happen. Like if he's innocent and he said that and then she ends up going missing and dying before Christmas or at least she goes missing before Christmas. We don't know when she died, allegedly. Then he's super unlucky and it makes him look really bad. So what's the play here then now? So if he says, I lost my wife and he's specifically choosing those words so he can use a different excuse, Because again, smart guy has to know that he can

go with this excuse for a short period of time where I quote unquote lost my wife. And then if he's not planning on killing her and he's not, he's not planning on doing anything to her. Is he, is he, cause usually these people have a, they have a backup plan or they're already ready for the next level. Like they have a plan A, B, and C. So when she comes to him two weeks later after this and says, you told me you lost your wife she's right there in modesto he could say oh you misunderstood me i lost my wife meaning i was going to divorce her like yeah so this actually happens derek like it actually happens right and we're going to get to this next episode i'm getting ahead of it yeah when when amber figures out that lacy was not dead, and Lacey's actually this woman that everybody in the area is looking for, she asks him, she's like, why would you say you lost your wife?

And he's like, Amber, I did lose her. I lost her a long time ago. He's trying to say that he lost her. There we go. Yes. He lost her as in, oh, yeah, we've been drifting apart. I lost my wife. He's so dumb.

So that's the point right there. You know, I want to swear right now, but I'm not going to. So that's a really poor excuse. But again, that was exactly what I was talking about. Like, it's not me, Amber. It's not me, Sean. You guys misunderstood me when all along he's smart enough to know that based on their reaction to him saying, I lost my wife, he damn well knew what they, how they took it or they wouldn't have been as receptive to it. So what a dumb ass thing to say. But anyway, I don't want to get ahead of it. He's, he's, he's gonna, he's gaslighting them. Like, what are you talking about? I never said she died. I said, I lost her. What are you guys

thinking? You know, what's wrong with you for thinking that? Yeah. That would be a pathological liar's move though, right? Like puts it back on you. You're the one that missed. It's your fault. Now I feel like a victim. Man, terrible. But anyways, I mean, at minimum he's a scumbag for that, but you know, at most he's a murderer and he was, he was setting up his murder by putting it in the minds of these other people who he wanted to continue with after said murder. So there's a, there's a murderer and he was setting up his murder by putting it in the minds of these other people who he wanted to continue with after said murder. So there's a wide gradient there, but I digress. I'll let you get back to it. So Scott breaks this to Amber.

She's like super understanding. And then he leaves. And after Scott left, Amber began to wonder, when had he lost his wife? Had it been recently? If it was recently, had he grieved for her properly? Because if this is his first Christmas without his wife, it had to have been at some point in the past year. She wanted to know, you know, did Scott give himself enough time to get over it? Was he ready to be in another relationship?

She was also feeling a bit hurt that he had lied to her. You know, he said straight out, no, I've never been married, never even close to being married. And she'd actually stressed to him how important honesty was to her in a relationship because she'd been with other people who had lied to her and misled her. But at the end of the day, Amber decided she had no place to judge

how someone handled the tragedy in their lives. And all she wanted to do was put the whole thing behind them. Amber didn't see Scott again until December 11th. That was the night of Sean Sibley's Christmas party. And three days later, they would attend a more formal party. So while her daughter was at school on December 11th, Amber and Scott, they went to the shop and they rented Scott a tux for him to wear at the fancier party. Before they left for Sean's party, Amber called her friend, Sean, and was like, hey, can you help me prepare a surprise for Scott?

Amber wanted Sean to get a picture of Scott and Amber and Amber's daughter all together. But she wanted Sean to be discreet about it because Amber was planning to put the picture into a Christmas ornament that she was making for Scott. Apparently, Amber never got the picture that she wanted because Sean's camera died halfway through the party, but she did get one of Scott and herself like sitting in a chair, and we'll put that picture up. Amber said that night Scott was the perfect man to have on her arm. He was outgoing, he was charming, he got along with everyone, everyone loved him, and then they went home and they fell asleep in each other's arms. On December 14th, Scott put on his rented tux and Amber slipped into a form-fitting strapless red dress. Scott presented Amber with a dozen red roses and she was like, oh, thank you. And then he began pulling a bunch of stuff out of

his brown duffel bag. He pulled another two dozen red roses out of that duffel bag and a bottle of champagne. and a small person to play music i swear he pulled a violinist out i can't take this guy so as amber's like arranging the flowers in a vase scott plucked one of the flowers out a single red rose and he presented it to her and she was like what'd you do that for and he was like listen i i've been in san franc Francisco and this single red rose was all I could think about. And then he proceeded to like rub the petals on her skin and like kiss her. And Amber said, you know, she was like, it was hot. She was enjoying the affection, but something was like still bothering her. So she stopped him and

she asked him, you know, Scott, can I trust you with my heart? And Scott said, quote, you know the answer to that already. And Amber was like, no, I don't, which is why I asked you. And Scott responded, but he didn't really answer. He said, listen, Amber, you know, I live this certain lifestyle and I can see you living this lifestyle as well. So when I get back from Europe, I'm going to need to make some decisions. And I need to know that, you know, you're going to say yes to me without question. Okay. So after this, once again, Amber was like, Scott, can I trust you with my heart? And once again, he replied that she already knew the answer to that question. And it bothered her that he wouldn't answer the question directly, obviously. But there's something else here that bothers me. First of all, what decisions is he going to have to make when he gets back from Europe, even though he's not going to Europe? What decisions is he going to have to make? What question is he going to ask her that he wants her to answer without, you know,

even thinking about it? And why does he have such a hard time lying to her that, yes, she can trust him with her heart when he pretty much lies about everything else. Like, why is this so hard for him to say, yes, you can trust me with your heart? Because he knew that's what she wanted to hear. Why does he have such a problem lying about it? I don't know. It's a great question. I don't know. As you were saying it, I'm like, just say yes. Like you said, you've already lied about a ton of other things. Just say yes and who cares. But for some reason, maybe he was starting to sense that she was onto him and he was maybe looking for outs.

I don't know. I don't even know why it was so hard for him at that point. I almost feel like later he knew that eventually she was going to find out about Lacey, right? One way or the other. Whether she found out Lacey was missing or she found out he was married. And at that point, he could at least say, well, I didn't lie to you. You know, you told me trust was really important. You told me you didn't want me to lie to you. At least I didn't lie to you about that. I think he really thinks ahead. We've talked about this before, how Scott, he takes a lot of things in. He observes. He listens. He doesn't always talk about everything he observes, but he files everything away. So he realizes at this point, especially after breaking the news about actually being married, Amber is really like big on trust. So at least he could look back and say later, well, Amber, yeah, I know you're upset that I actually do have a wife who's still alive and not lost, but at least I didn't lie to you when I told you that when you asked if I could trust you with my heart or trust me with your heart. Yeah. I mean, could that be an angle where at this point, if you're in the camp that Scott did not kill Lacey, he was trying to hedge his

bets where he was like, I don't want to lie to her because I don't want this scorned woman going to Lacey and ruining what I have with her. So I'm going to, like he did earlier about the phrasing of lost his wife, he could easily say, yeah, I thought I lost my wife. So I'm going to, like he did earlier about the phrasing of lost his wife, he could easily say, yeah, I thought I lost my wife. I had lost her for months, but we found each other again. And I never told you to trust my heart. You took it that way by basically saying, I said you already knew and you took it however you wanted to. So don't come to me and my wife, Lacey, saying that I lied to you because I didn't. You just took it the way, you interpreted the way you wanted to interpret it, the way you were hoping I was saying it.

It's on you, not me. Yep. Well, at this point, Amber is having, you know, this little nagging feeling, but she wants to ignore it because she wants to believe that this is perfect. She wants to believe that that's why she was so understanding. And, you know, she just wants to move forward. So she put her concerns to the side and Amber and Scott headed to Casanova's, a local high-end restaurant where they were going to have dinner before the event. Now, back in Modesto, Lacey Peterson was getting ready for her own Christmas party, a party that was being held at the home of her friend, Stacey Boyers. She had been planning to attend this party with her husband, but at the last minute,

Scott was like, oh, snap, I can't go tonight. You know, my boss is in town. He's called an emergency meeting. Like, I have to go to that. So he left. Lacey put on a silk burgundy maternity dress, and she spent way too much time trying to fasten the straps of her shoes, something that Scott had been helping her do as she like expanded from her pregnancy because anybody who's been pregnant knows not only do you have this like huge stomach, which it makes it really hard to like reach your feet, but your feet are swollen. It's just a mess and you're trying to put like nice fancy shoes on because you're wearing a dress and you do need help. So she would usually have him there to help her with that, but he was with his girlfriend.

Lacey arrived at the party around 7 p.m. and she seemed to be in good spirits. She talked about how excited she was because Connor's due date was getting closer, but she also mentioned that Scott had been traveling a lot for work and spending more and more nights away from home. When Lacey left the party around 9 30, she told her friends that she'd had a great time, but she did joke that she'd been a bit agitated that Scott had not been home to help her put on her shoes. Back at Casanova's, Scott was joking with Amber and one of her friends that the mail server had been hitting on him while they were in the bathroom, and he was like, he kind of liked it. You know, Amber was taken aback. He was like, oh, it's

complete. It's completely flattering when another man hits on you. And in her book, Amber was like, I found that kind of odd. But after dinner, they drove to the World Sports Cafe where the fundraiser was being held. Scott and Amber drank and danced. But she did notice that at one point he went outside to make a phone call during the night. And I'm sure we can assume that this call was to his wife because she was probably like, are you coming home tonight?

What's happening, right? So two pictures emerged from this night. Two pictures that, when placed side by side, tell a really sad story of two women. The first picture is of Lacey. She's heavily pregnant. She's sitting alone at her Christmas party, smiling widely, even though her eyes showed her true exhaustion. The other picture is of Scott and Amber, dressed to the nines, holding each other, looking like they're in love, beaming happily. Poor Lacey, left on her own to put on her own shoes and explain to her friends why her husband was not there with her.

And poor Amber, who was clutching onto a man that she thought was her future, not realizing she didn't even really know him, much less know what kind of secrets were hidden behind his big smile and pretty words. The next morning, Scott left early, claiming he had a business trip in New Mexico to get ready for. In reality, Scott had promised Lacey that he would cook dinner for her, her mother Sharon, and her stepfather Ron that night. On December 16th, Scott left a voicemail for Amber telling her he was driving to the gym for his weekly five-minute workout, and he would try to call her the next day. He called her sweetheart in this message. He was like, hey, sweetheart, you know, going to the gym. And Amber played this message over and over. She was thrilled by the sound of his voice. That night, Amber wrote out her Christmas cards, and when she did Scots, she put a picture of the two of them inside. The message she wrote said,

To my love, I will keep you close to my heart. Amber had also made an ornament for Scott with their picture inside. She'd wrapped it in blue foil and finished it with a written message. To my love, from your love. She'd also crocheted him a black Chanel scarf. Later, when Amber asked where she should send these things, she didn't tell him she had gifts for him. She was like, if I want to contact you, can I send you something? Scott was like, hey, I'm working on getting a P.O. box in Modesto. And when she asked why he would have a

P.O. box in Modesto when he lived in Sacramento, Scott told her that it was some kind of like overnight courier service and they would make sure that he got his mail wherever he was in the world so listen this almost makes me feel like he may not have been planning to kill lacy because this is uh december what like it's close to the end it's like december 19th it was after the 16th. He left a voicemail on the 16th, you said. Yeah. So why would he tell Amber he was getting a peel box in Modesto if he knew that within like a couple of days his wife wasn't going to be an issue and she wasn't going to be at his house like getting the mail and seeing, you know, Christmas cards from his girlfriend? He probably wouldn't. If he if he was planning on killing her, he probably wouldn't want his mistress sending mail to the house because obviously detectives would be at least,

regardless of whether they felt he was involved or not, be involved with that and maybe intercept something that could incriminate him and maybe, I don't know, give them a possible motive for why he would kill his wife. Yeah, but the cops would know he had a peel box. Don't you guys look into that stuff? Yeah, we'd look into everything, But, you know, it might have been a situation, too, where when she asked him about where can I ship it, he might have had other things on his mind and she caught him off guard and he just gave the quickest answer. Because I want to ask you, and it kind of goes in line with what you're talking about right now. This is nothing against Amber, by the way. But and I've never been in a situation like this. But clearly a lot of this you know got a little

bit more weird for her near the end and the red flags were going up but even though the red flags were going up and he had said he lost his wife and all these little things these indicators that something wasn't right she was still writing christmas cards and creating these christmas ornaments how how doesn't she how does she she's been with this man for a while now they spent numerous nights i mean not really that long i mean a month to never go to his house you know it's in sacramento derrick or san diego i guess i mean you know a little bit of blame i think goes on amber for not maybe seeing between the lines no what do you know man absolutely not okay no listen this guy was i'm really on the fence no this guy was a smooth operator okay so he was all the right moves saying

all the right things and this is a single mother she's had shitty luck with guys every guy she's ever met has lied to her left her her high and dry. She wanted to believe the fantasy. And even though the reality was staring at her in the face, she was like, the reality sucks. The fantasy is better. The picnics, the cuddling in the truck and looking at stars and him carrying my daughter while she's sleeping and picking out Christmas trees and cuddling on the love seat and just living in our love cocoon. I would rather stay in this love cocoon than admit there's a flaw here. Because if I admit there's a flaw here, I'm starting from square one and I'll never find something like this again. So she's hoping against hope that she's wrong. She's ignoring

her better instincts because she's saying you could be wrong. And if you are wrong, you're throwing away something that's probably the best thing that's ever happened to you. So don't think about it too much. Don't look into it too much. You can trust him. He's sweet. He's kind.

He respects you. He's good with your child. And he's probably thinking the same exact thing that you were saying earlier. If it was just about sex or if he was cheating on his wife, why would he be coming here and cooking for me and taking care of my daughter and picking her up from preschool? A guy that's just trying to get laid isn't going to do all that. A guy who's married isn't going to be doing this because why would he want like two monogamous relationships? She's probably talking herself out of being suspicious because honestly,

she wants it to be as good as it seems. Yeah. But nothing ever is. It makes sense. It makes sense. Blinded by love and in denial. It's not love. There's no way this was love on either part. You don't think she was in love with him? You can't fall in love with somebody in a month.

Absolutely not. You don't believe in love at first sight? No, I believe in lust at first sight. I believe in your brain playing tricks on you. Love takes a long time. A long time. So Stephanie does not believe in love at first sight no i believe in like connection at first sight i believe in like you know you guys are hitting

it off but and your brain tricks you into thinking that it's love because fucking serotonin man okay so then let me rephrase that is it possible she believed she believed she was in love and she says in her by the perceived love that she had yeah i mean we've all been there i you know when i was young in my 20s have you stephanie i don't know you seem pretty cold-hearted i'm a little jaded but cutthroat but i mean there was one or two times when i was in college where i met somebody and i was like oh my god i love him but it didn't last listen i'm glad i'm glad two hours we're at two hours right now and obviously we go straight through so it'll probably be um right around that mark but some of the stuff we took a couple breaks i was dying in here i had

to turn on the air conditioning and stuff but um right around two hours and essentially it was entirely about amber and scott and i think it's completely warranted because the whole motive for Scott allegedly killing his wife is based on this relationship. So if you're to believe that Scott did kill his wife for this woman, then you sure as hell better know this side of the story as far as what their relationship consisted of. So I'm glad we went over it. I took a lot away from it. I think there's a lot of stuff in there that he said where, and you said it numerous times, he was either very unlucky or he knew where he was going with it and he was preemptively planting those seeds so that when he carried out whatever he wanted to do, he could more seamlessly make that transition to go. I did lose her.

Oh, no, I didn't tell you I lost her. Then I told you I lost her a week later. You were wrong about the dates. She's been missing for, you know, since December, you know, Christmas Eve. I don't know what you're talking about. Or maybe he planned on carrying this out sooner and he had to push it back for whatever reason. I don't know. But there's definitely points to this story tonight where it's extremely incriminating when we talk about the three things that you base your investigation on, which again, means motive, opportunity. I think if anything, you can take

away from tonight's episode that Scott Peterson clearly had a motive. There's no doubt about it. Yeah. I think personally, I don't think it was too premeditated. I honestly believe if he did it, if he killed Lacey, that he was really just planning to keep these two women separate for as long as he could. And that would give him time to decide.

Did he want to stay with his family or did he want to start a new family with Amber? I think when Sean was like, okay, I've got you pegged. That's when he made the decision. Well, you know, one of them's got to go. Got to choose. Yeah. Got to choose.

And then it was unfortunately Lacey. Yeah. We will see as we keep going. I'm ready. I'm ready to go into the next part already because there are questions that I have. I'm sure there are questions that our listeners, our viewers have. But I would like, you know, and I might do some research on it to see if we can find former bill of sales for his previous boat purchases.

Because if he's bought so many boats, I would love to see what the average price of those boats were, because you make a good point as far as it being 2002. Boats cost a little less. And if his common practice was to buy used boats in the range of $1,000 to $3,000, then this falls in that margin. And it doesn't really stand out to me as much. But if in the past he's bought five $10,000 boats, which to me, even in 2002, that would be the average price for a good fishing boat. Well, if that's the average price that he spent, this outlier would definitely raise more red flags to me because if his average price was five to 10 grand, this boat right here,

this price would suggest that it was expendable. It was something that he really didn't care what happened to it. It was something he was going to use for a short period of time. And then if it sunk to the bottom of the ocean, he couldn't, he couldn't care less. So I'm going to look into that. And if anybody out there, by the way, you know, if we find any previous purchases for boats for Scott Peterson and we can establish a pattern as far as what his average price per boat was, I think that'd be very revealing. I would check the writ of habeas corpus and the appeal. It's in the court documents? Yeah, I would check it because the boat is a huge linchinchpin and as it should be. Yeah. But the the the prosecution, they kind of made it they made they made it seem like, OK, Scott had this secret boat that Lacey

didn't know about. Nobody knew about this boat. But then later, Scott and his lawyers are like, no, Lacey did know about the boat. Like she absolutely knew about it. Later, the prosecution would say, hey, the motive for killing your wife was because you had a girlfriend. And Scott would be like, no, no, no. Lacey knew about my girlfriend. She was cool with it. She knew about Amber. So, yeah, it seems to be.

Well, it's hard for her to contradict this story if she's already gone, right? Exactly. Right. Right. Yeah. She knew about the boat and she knew about the girlfriend. Can we ask her? No.

They do have some supporting evidence to show that she knew about the boat and the girlfriend. Okay. Really? Uh-huh. It's not anything like concrete, but. The girlfriend surprises me. The boat doesn't. I mean, how do you get rid of.

There's no way Lisa knew about Amber. There's no way in hell. Like I'll sit here right now and bet my life on that, that she did not know about Amber. There's no way. Completely agree. She doesn't seem like the type of woman would have stuck around for something like that either. So, um, but the boat, yeah, of course she knew about the boat. He's probably buying it out of their account. She saw the money come out. Um, he probably didn't hide it from her. He doesn't have to tell her what the boat's purpose is. Just,

Hey, I wanted to buy a boat to fish. That's it. However, there is a theory that maybe he did just buy this boat, right? Just to fish. And then obviously Scott's now in December juggling a lot, right? It's hard enough to have one wife, much less, you know, basically two, like two separate little families. So he's juggling a lot. He's out of town a lot. Lacey mentions this to her friends that he's been out of town a lot more. He's spending a lot of nights away from home. Maybe Lacey's suspicious. Maybe Lacey starts doing her own research and starts digging a little bit. And maybe she figures out about Amber by looking at his credit card bills. He's buying private rooms at sushi restaurants and this, this, and that, and hotel

rooms in Fresno. Maybe she put two and two together. And on that Christmas Eve, she confronted him. And that's when he killed her. Yeah. No, there's a lot there. I can't wait to dive into it. We're just scratching the surface. And when we pick up next time, we are going to talk about the days leading up to Lacey's disappearance. And we're going to talk about the timeline of that Christmas Eve. And it gets very, very specific here because the official timeline is kind of different than Scott's timeline. And there's all these witnesses.

Some people claim to have seen Lacey after Scott left to go to the marina. There's a bunch of stuff we need to talk about. It's going to get real heated, so stay tuned. Do you have any closing thoughts before we sign off? Nope. Ready to go. We appreciate you guys joining us. This was a long one, but I think it was very,

very important going forward. Yeah. And don't forget to check out our merch store, right? Crimeweeklypodcast.com, hit shop, or crimeweeklypodcast.com slash shop, either way. Check out the merchandise. Get yourself some undercover pineapple t-shirts. Send us pictures we want to see. And we will see you next week. Thank you so much for being here. Bye.