Crime Weekly - S1 Ep48: Gabby Petitio: Narrowing Down Time of Death (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 29, 2021

Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop 22 year old Gabrielle Venora Petito grew up in Blue Point, NY and it was during her time at Bayport-Blue Point High School that she encountered two factors that would change her life forever. She caught the travel bug, and began going on adventures and seeing new places, and she met Brian Laundrie, a classmate who would become her boyfriend, then her fiance before becoming the last person to see her alive. In 2019, Gabby and Brian began traveling together, and Gabbi documented their adventures on her social media platforms. The young couple went to California, North Carolina, Texas, and they did this all in a little Nissan Sentra. But Gabby and Brian enjoyed their travels so much, they wanted to do more, and so they converted a 2012 Ford Transit van into a camper, and with their excitement at new beginnings and a simpler lifestyle, the pair threw themselves into the van life community wholeheartedly. But something went wrong in the Summer of 2021, and Gabby Petito never came back home after a cross country trip with her fiance Brian. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

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trymeow. That's try M-E-O-W. You you discover the shipping you don't have to change your cat's food to improve your cat's health just add a packet of meow greens hello everybody welcome Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So today we are going into part two of the Gabby Petito case. And some things have happened since we last recorded about this case. In fact, I would say one of the most major breaks in this case happened after we recorded last Monday, right? Right. Literally the next day. Yeah. The next morning, I think it was that you had called me. But what happened is Brian Laundrie, at this point, we believe that he was found dead,

that his remains were found and he was identified using what? His dental records? That's right. They found the skull and they used his dental records. So he was identified using his dental records? That's right. They found the skull and they used his dental records. So he was identified using his dental records by the FBI. So at this point, as far as we know today, what is it, October 25th? Yep. October 25th, we're recording this. As far as we know, Brian Laundrie is dead. And we don't really have any more answers than that. But we're going to get into that in the final part when we wrap everything up. Did you have something you want

to talk about really quickly? Yeah. you and I have spoken about it. Just to clarify, we always say we implore you guys to sound off in the comments, send us messages or whatever. And although it wasn't abundant, we did receive a few messages about my phrasing of the van. A few times I said his van. There were a couple other times where I said the van. And you guys were quick to point out that the van was registered to Gabby. So I did respond to a few of you in the DMs and even in the public

forums. But just to clarify, registration, first off, I was wrong. I should have been saying their van. Never should I have said his van. And although the van is registered to Gabby, proof of ownership isn't solely determined on that. And in this particular case, you have cohabitants. So they're both living in the van. From my understanding, Stephanie, correct me if I'm wrong, they had a Nissan beforehand. They sold that to convert this van into something that they could travel in, but also live in. Both of their belongings were in the van. They were both driving the van. I'm assuming they were both paying to put gas in the van. So in the legal sense, the van would be both of their property, even though it's

registered to Gabby. However, I'm glad we had the opportunity to clarify this because I had made a comment. I think it was along the lines of Gabby was left with his van. That's inaccurate. It's their van and even more so her van, because in the moment when you're trying to make a decision pretty quickly, the police usually run the registration as soon as they stopped the vehicle. When they did that, they would have seen that the vehicle was registered to Gabby. And therefore, it makes more sense to me why they chose to leave Gabby with her van and take Brian to the hotel. So I wanted to clarify, there were surprisingly a few comments on it, more than I expected. But to be fair, I should have been saying there the whole time and not his.

So I've seen this in a lot of comments on YouTube videos about this case. People saying that Brian should have been arrested for theft of Gabby's van. And we did talk about this a few weeks ago. Is that the case or not necessarily because it was sort of considered to be their home and a vehicle that they shared? Yeah. And you and I talked about this as well. And that's when the questions were coming in or the comments were coming in about me saying his instead of hers, I was trying to figure out how it was relative to the case because those are the questions that I'm willing to engage with. Sometimes, as you guys know, and it's not anybody in this particular incident, but you'll get trolls who will go through an entire two-hour documentary is essentially what we do and try to find that one moment where you made a mistake. And so I can usually see those.

I think you called it the gotcha moment, right? The gotcha moment. Oh, he misspoke. He misspoke in two hours. They got him once. So those I don't usually respond to because frankly, that doesn't bother me. But in this case, I decided to address it here and respond to a couple of the messages because I don't know if this was the intent, but I did see how it was relative in the sense where there is some witness testimony that says he got into the van, locked her out and was trying to leave without her. And to the question you just asked, would that be considered a theft? No, I mean, no, it wouldn't be considered a theft. I talked about domestic violence and how there's very little discretion, but with motor vehicle theft, especially when you have a cohabiting property, like a vehicle or a house, it's a lot harder to

charge someone, nevermind, get them prosecuted for it and have them ultimately be found guilty of it. So in this particular case, you can sometimes have taken a vehicle without consent, which would be a crime. But the fact that one, he didn't leave, therefore there was no crime committed. But there was also someone, I believe in your Twitter page, who said something like he was trying to strip her of the last thing she had, you know, by taking the vehicle. There may be some truth to that. I've, I'm always quick to qualify and say, I'm not a psychologist. I don't pretend to be one. I'm trying to base it off facts and circumstances so that you guys have a better understanding from a law enforcement perspective. We're supposed to be impartial. We're supposed to stick to the facts. So in this particular case, I do not believe there would have been enough there, enough probable cause, if you will, to arrest him for taking a vehicle without consent or motor

vehicle theft. So the way you had sort of explained it to me that cleared things up for me was, let's say there's a husband and a wife. They live together. They have two vehicles. They get into a fight. He takes off in one of the cars that happens to be registered. To her, she calls the police and she says, my husband stole my car. Arrest him. Now, what you're

going to do is you're going to look into this. Does the husband typically drive this car? Does the husband put gas into this car? Is he paying the payment just because it's registered to her? It doesn't mean that it's not his. Personally, in my household, all the cars are registered under my name, but that doesn't mean that I can just call the police if my husband decides to go to the grocery store. So it is a very, I guess, gray area, but it would come down to, once again, discretion, correct? Right. And in this case, what we would more than likely do, if that was the sole charge that we were considering charging, then more than likely you as an officer would take an initial report. Investigators would follow up on it. They would look into the bill of sale. They would conduct interviews. And if Gabby had still wanted to pursue charges at that point, if they were able to clearly show how he did not have a right to that vehicle, then they could charge him later.

There's a statute of limitations on it. It's plenty of time to discern if there was a clear line between when he was at one point allowed to take the vehicle and at one point no longer allowed. Let's say there was a clear breakup where he just showed up randomly and took the car without her consent. Well, that's a theft of a vehicle. It's a different story. It's a different story. So I hope that clarifies it for everyone. I'm already ready for it. As we're recording this, the new YouTube video hasn't came out yet.

So we've already released the audio version. The YouTube version of that audio hasn't came out yet. So you're waiting for those comments? I'm just waiting for it. So if anybody's listening to the audio on this, feel free to go over to the YouTube channel and respond for me. I'd greatly appreciate it. fine because it's engagement regardless. So we kind of left off the first part last episode. What was the last part we left off when they'd been pulled over by the Moab police? We went through the body count footage, correct? Yeah. We actually ended on the Officer Pratt's quote, which you were surprised about.

I was stunned. We ended recording. And just because you were so surprised and I value your level of research so much, I'm like, let's go back and look and make sure I got that quote right. And unfortunately, I did. It was right. And you found it yourself as well.

And we were like, wow. Yeah, he really said that. It's very prophetic, right? Yeah, it is. It is. Some people were saying as well that like, you know, Derek was able to basically lay out exactly how wrong the police were and how they made a decision that they shouldn't have. But yet he wasn't there to condemn them. I said with keeping emotion out of it, I would have done it differently. I said that very clearly. But that's what discretion is, right? Discretion is up to the person there.

Right. And there were some people who did comment that, because I didn't watch every second of the video, the body cam footage, that the officer went back to his vehicle, called the witness, one of the witnesses. And on the phone with that witness, the witness said, I saw Gabby hit him. Yeah, well, that was probably the second one. Well, it would be the first one. But you're right, the second call. The second one on the scene.

Correct. Yeah. Correct. So you called the wrong witness, buddy. Yeah. So I could see how in that moment where he's trying to discern what happened from impartial witnesses that you can't just take the one witness at their word and not the other. So it's kind of a conflicting

story. It looks like they were fighting with each other. So I'm not going to sit here and say, this is the most egregious thing I've ever seen by a police officer. It's not. Um, but I think I clearly spelt out that if it were me on scene, I would have done it differently. That's as much as I can go to sit here and say, uh, that be, you know, prosecuted immediately for negligence and dereliction of duty, I think is an overstatement by me. And that's not referred to an incident that I was involved in. I'm sure they're humans and I'm sure that they have some regret. Yeah, I will say I don't think that they handled it properly, but I'm also not going to say that they went into it with malicious intent. I think that they thought they were doing the right thing. And intent matters at the end of the day, still. I agree. Well said. Still in 2021, intent still matters to some degree, right? Yep.

No, I agree. I think there were the two things that I saw. There might be more. I apologize if I'm missing it, but those were the two things. But considering we talked about identifying primary aggressor, domestic violence statutes, Utah law, if that's the only thing that we had to correct. Pretty damn good. I'll take it.

Yeah. So, I mean, when we last left off, they had just kind of separated them and they left Gabby in her van and they brought Brian to a hotel and they said separate for the night. Now, do we know if they separated for the night? No, we have no evidence of whether they did or they didn't.

But the next day, neither one of them mentions this on social media. No one is posting like, hey, just got into a huge incident with the police yesterday in Moab, Utah. And it kind of shows you how social media is. They talk about all these great things and they talk about the really beautiful parts of life and traveling and all this beautiful nature, but they're not going to post a picture of them getting interrogated by the police on the side of the road. But Brian, he posted like a bunch of self-righteous stuff on his Instagram. There's a picture of him. He's holding half a cantaloupe and the caption says,

not a lot of biodegradable packaging for on-the-go food these days. That's why I stick with my melon rinds, apple cores, peach pits, and banana peels. Also, most melons contain around 90% of water. Talk about hydration. Let's keep plastic water bottles off the trail, or better yet, off the planet. Now, the same day, Brian also posted a long rant saying, quote, humans are primates, great apes in fact, but I don't know all how great we are as a species. Chimpanzees share 98.8% of their DNA with humans, our closest

living relative. But as I see it, every living creature is in some way our relative, even trees. Only 800 million years ago, animal cells started appearing on Earth, comprised of mainly the same parts and following the same functions as plant cells, requiring oxygen, solar energy, minerals, nutrients, and water. This tree was surviving in only inches of soil in an area of extreme heat and drought. I think our culture, our society, has put itself above all living creatures, creating needs purely to support destructive economic practices. This tree doesn't require an Apple Watch, it doesn't stream its favorite shows, or have a microwave oven, pay health insurance, or drink grande iced caramel macchiatos. It is just a tree. But you rarely see end quote.

What did he say? Only 800 million years ago? Yeah. What do you think about this? Only 800 million years ago. You know, do you think about this? Only 800 million years ago. You know, he's very critical of everyone. He's very critical of everyone in the way we're living. And listen, I actually don't have a problem just in, if I'm compartmentalizing this, I don't have a problem with him wanting to have us be more clean with what we do and how we take

care of the earth. We only have one earth. I am a firm believer in, you know, we're not doing the best job and we could all do more to try to sustain the environment. So I don't have an issue with that. He is a little preachy here, but I guess if I can't believe it makes me my stomach turn, I'm defending him here. He is kind of practicing what he preaches other than the fact that he's driving a combustible engine vehicle around the country. He's not practicing what he preaches, other than the fact that he's driving a combustible engine vehicle around the country. He's not practicing what he preaches. I mean, he's not. Dude's living in a van for a month.

Okay. Before that, he was living in a house in Florida driving his mother's Mustang. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I guess I can't give him that then either. I don't know. And might I add, I understand we should get plastic.

Plastic water bottles are horrible. But leave the caramel macchiatos alone, man. Leave them alone. give him that then either i don't know and might i add i understand we should get plastic plastic water bottles are horrible but leave the caramel macchiatos alone man leave them alone paper straws now though exactly if i'm drinking a caramel macchiato with a paper straw it's fine but he is preachy right what does apple watches and caramel macchiatos have to do with the environment he's kind of going back and forth between like capitalism's bad, hurting the environment's bad. And he's sort of going through this whole angsty thing. And you're right. It does seem like he has just a very low opinion of everybody besides himself. And I think that that included Gabby. Oh, I agree with you 100%. Yeah, I think. But, you know, I wonder and we'll never know now,

this is what he's saying, but a lot of people will say something even though underlying there's a self-consciousness about it and you're just kind of saying what you want people to believe, but in reality, that's not how you feel. It's called virtue signaling. Yeah. He's basically sitting here trying to pretend as if he feels like he's better than, but in reality, there may be some insecurity there. I definitely think that was the case with Gabby. She was so ambitious and she had all these goals. And anytime she brought something up to him, it was right from her mouth. Although it was very quick, she told the police officers right out, he's always putting

down everything I'm doing. Well, why are you doing that? You're in a relationship. You're supposed to lift each other up. And here you are just kind of like discrediting everything that she wants to accomplish. So clearly there's some insecurity there. And I think he felt like, and I tweeted this out. If she continued to realize that he wasn't good for her and that she was destined for better things, she may leave him. And I still wonder to this day, as we're sitting here, did that play into what happened or what we believe happened? Because she started to pull away like, listen, dude, you're not everything you think you are. Yeah. I mean, in his Instagram post when he proposed to her, right, he said, every day with you feels like a dream. That's what it feels like. It feels like a dream because he felt that he had sort of lucked out with her. And then one day she was going to realize that he was kind of just a basic guy with nothing going for him and move on. And so I really think also he was kind of forcing her into this nature thing. You should hike with bare feet, this, this and that. The whole conservation of nature thing, not that she wasn't into that, but I think he really

was like almost brainwashing her into it because he wanted her to be more like him. It was almost like it was the cult of Brian Laundrie. You know, follow me, travel with me, let me isolate you from everybody. And when you come back, you'll be, you know, a pure naturalist like myself. We are going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. You can't rely on blind faith to get the pregnancy support you deserve. Ritual's Essential Prenatal Multivitamin is the only leading prenatal backed by its own human clinical trial. Essential Prenatal is proven to deliver key nutrients, including folate, biotin, and vitamin D during pregnancy. Get 25% off when you visit ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Ever notice your dog slowing down

and having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add Rough Greens to your dog's food for 90 days, and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings, naturopathy doctor Dennis Black, inventor of Rough Greens here, and I invite you to give your pup the Rough Greens 90-Day Challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet.

And at 90 days, better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch your dog a free Jumpstart trial bag today. Go to TryRuffgreens.com. Use promo code TRYROUGH. That's T-R-Y-R-U-F-F. Go to tryroughgreens.com. Use promo code TRYROUGH. You discover the shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of Rough Greens. Okay, so after this self-righteous, long, ranty post, Brian Laundrie does not post on Instagram again. And then on August 17th, he flew back to Florida and he left Gabby and the van in Utah.

So allegedly he went back to Florida to help his father basically clear out a storage unit that he and Gabby had been renting. So Brian and Gabby had some items of theirs in a storage unit. They were paying for it every month. And Brian's father claimed that he told Brian he'd be willing to store these things at his home so that the couple didn't have to keep paying the monthly rent on the storage unit. CBS News reported that Brian flew cross-country in order to clean out the unit and get some supplies, claiming he and Gabby were considering extending their road trip. Now, I've really always found this side trip of Brian's, you know, back to Florida from Utah. This is a journey of almost 2,500 miles. And it's very curious, very odd.

Why would he do that at that moment? He flew out of Salt Lake City. He flew into Tampa. And apparently his sister Cassie saw him briefly while he was in Florida. And she claimed that at that point she wondered, you know, why was Gabby not with him? Cassie said that Brian was talking to her about where and Gabby were going next. And Cassie and her children actually FaceTimed with Gabby while Brian was in Florida. So what do you make of this?

Because his lawyer or the Laundrie family lawyer, Steve Bertolino, he claims that Brian flew home to get some items and close the storage unit out for good since he and Gabby were going to extend their road trip. Of course, there's a ton of speculation about this online. They wonder if Gabby and Brian had fought and that's why Brian left. And then they sort of like reconciled over the phone and he returned to Utah. But what's your take on it? where they're paying for the storage unit. Their funds are limited. You know, they're living out of a van. We know they weren't rich. And it may have been something that now that they had tried this trip, they really did decide like, we love this

and we want to continue it. And we're paying for a storage unit that we technically can't afford. So I'm going to go down there and close it. I'm not saying it makes sense. I see your face. You're kind of like giving me- After the traffic stop, Brian's like, I love this.

This is the best time of my life. I want to make this last longer. I mean, it could have been a mutual thing. It sounds like they had a very tumultuous relationship from the time they started. So it feels to me, and if I'm wrong, I'll apologize later, that them arguing and fighting with each other was a common occurrence since the day they met. Yeah. And so I feel like there are a couple that, you know, couples we all know where one day they're fighting like literally they're never going to be together again. And the next day they're posting on social media how much they love each other and how lucky they are.

We've all seen it. It's not it's a very toxic relationship. It's very seesawing. So could that be their relationship where they they're passionate in the sense where they fight really hard? Listen, I mean, they didn't call the police. Somebody called on him. So do I think that they would have called the police for that traffic stop if the witnesses hadn't seen it? No, I don't think Gabby would have called the police and we wouldn't have that footage and we might not even know about that disagreement.

So I'm just saying, is it possible he went there to close it out? It does seem kind of like the saying going around your ass to get to your elbow because your 2,500 mile trip, probably very expensive to close out a storage unit that you could probably do over the phone. Or just have like your dad and like a couple neighborhood guys do it, right? Yeah. Yeah. It seems like a lot to leave your girlfriend and your vehicle and

to go out there and do all that. But not everything Brian has done in his life, even up to the point that we're getting to, makes a lot of sense to me personally. But he lives a different style of life. I don't know. Maybe he didn't trust people with the unit. But again, not trying to speak out both sides of my mouth. It's absolutely plausible that there was a fight and this was an opportunity for him to get away and maybe try to see if she would like, you know, he leaves her out there by herself. They reconcile. He flies back out.

Is that possible? Of course. Of course it is. Yeah. The weird thing is, though, Gabby's mother said she didn't understand why Gabby and Brian had even gotten the storage units begin with. Because remember, Gabby's father, Joe, he lives in Florida, too. That's right, yeah.

Yeah, and I guess Joe, before they had gotten the storage unit, had offered for Gabby and Brian to store their things at his place. And they had instead decided to get the storage unit, which is odd because they're pinching pennies, right? They're not working. They're going to be going on the road and driving for four months. Not many people can just stop working for four months and be flush with cash, which also is confusing as to why he would buy a plane ticket to fly back to Florida in the middle of this trip instead of just going back or saying, hey, dad, can you grab a couple of guys and help them move this stuff out of the storage area, right? Yeah. I mean, a storage unit per month, depending on the size, is anywhere from $150 to $250, maybe even a little bit more. I can only assume it costs more to fly back home than that. So it doesn't make a lot of sense economically. And as far as the offering of Gabby's dad to keep their property there, it might speak

to the controlling aspect of this again. It always seemed like Brian was trying to create a buffer between Gabby and her friends and family. Because again, if he was the only voice in her ear, then his word was gospel, right? But if he allowed other people to be involved in her life, maybe they would see something he didn't want them to see and have her pull away from him, Brian, that is. So I think he was always cognizant of who was in her life, who she was confiding in, who she was speaking with. He always wanted to control the narrative. And I think that's why he was okay with Gabby speaking to his family because they were obviously

team Brian. So that's okay. But I think when other people offered to help or be part of her life, he was always kind of dismissive of that. Yeah. And it's also a bit strange because, you know, while Brian was in Florida, Gabby posted a picture on Instagram on August 19th. And this is a picture. Basically, it looks like she's sitting in the van. Her legs are outstretched. So it's just a picture of her legs. And then, you know, the great outdoors in the background, it looks like tumbleweed, kind of deserty scenario. And in this post, she's outdoors in the background, it looks like tumbleweed, kind of desert-y scenario. And in this post, she's complaining about food packages being left behind by tourists.

And to me, I have to ask myself, like, who does this sound like? Considering that Gabby had never said anything like this on Instagram before, and Brian was known to complain about the infestation of the human race, cluttering the planet and littering the planet, it does sound more like something Brian would say. So there's two scenarios, two theories that have been sort of posited online where people say either A, this is Brian making this post. And personally, I don't believe that because by this point, Gabby was still alive because she's seen multiple times after this. So I don't believe that. The second theory is that he was literally rubbing off on her so much that

he was insidious to her, that he had started to sort of grow into her brain to the point where he's not even around because he's in Florida at this point. She's technically alone and she's making these sorts of claims. Yeah, I think there's truth to that. I think, again, whenever we talk about these cases, I always think for me, it's good to pull from past experience. And again, we've seen individuals, whether they're in a romantic relationship or it's just a friendship where you'll have this friend for years. And as soon as they start hanging around with a particular person, they start to talk like them, act like them. And it's completely out of character for who they are.

So when you magnify that by sticking that friend in a vehicle with this individual where there's nobody else to basically talk to, that process is probably, it's probably, it's sped up. And it could be that, it could be that, you know, she was started, you know, he was rubbing off on her, his ideologies, his philosophies on life and the environment. It could also have been something where you said he was still in Florida at this point, right? Right. Could it have been a post where they maybe did have that argument that you were referring to earlier? And this was kind of her way of reaching out and trying to connect with him through something that he would find attractive and good and positive and maybe cause him to reach out to her. Because even though she's not with him currently, she's living her life the way he would want her to live. That's crazy.

I can't even believe it. I never considered that before. But yes, this isn't her texting him an outright like, I'm sorry, or I don't want to fight. This is sort of like this behind the scenes olive branch. Like, see, I'm listening to you. I am following your tutelage. I am following in your footsteps. We're on the same page. Aren't you proud of me? Right? Yeah. Don't you proud of me? Aren't you proud of me? Right? Yeah. Don't you want? I could be wrong, but it felt like that. Maybe it was her way of reaching out indirectly. Yeah. That's crazy. Sign up for my psychology course at Derekpsychology.com. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Well, the first and only video that was posted to the couple's YouTube page, which was called Nomadic Static, that was also put up on the 19th.

This was an eight-minute video titled Beginning Our Van Life Journey, and it's a mashup of videos from trips that the two had taken together. So it looks like some footage from previous trips they had taken before they got the van and also some footage of the trips they had taken with the van. And a lot of this footage is taken with a drone because you can see the van driving through the desert, the van driving on the road. So it appears that they had a drone of some kind that they would send up there and take pictures and videos of the van. At some point, Gabby ended up at the Fairfield Inn and Suites in Salt Lake City, Utah. And we don't really know how long she stayed there, even though the hotel did confirm that she'd booked a room for more than one night. Some sources say she was there for two nights.

But the question does arise that if Brian flew out of Salt Lake City and Gabby was staying at a hotel in Salt Lake City, wouldn't it make sense that she'd probably been at the hotel the whole time that Brian was gone, or at least in Salt Lake City the whole time Brian was gone? Because I feel like that would be safer for her to be in a hotel and sort of stay in the same area at night instead of sleeping alone in a van somewhere like in the wilderness or some sketchy RV park. At least when you're there with Brian or another person, there's strength in numbers. You have like a partner. But to just be a young 20-something girl alone sleeping in a van, it can get kind of dangerous. And I've heard stories of these van lifers who, you know, especially the women who do this van life journey alone, they have sketchy stuff

happening to them all the time, like people trying to break into the van at night, people trying to rob them, like really scary kind of stuff. I completely agree with everything you said. I mean, she's brave to be out there by herself. But was she out there by herself is what I'm asking. Was she at the hotel the whole time or was she literally camping out in this van by herself while Brian was gone? I mean, there was nothing confirmed through the hotel that would suggest when she checked in, when she checked out? It says when she checked out, but they don't say when she checked in.

They just confirmed that she stayed for more than one night. Okay. And they said she checked out on what date? On the 24th? The 24th. Yeah. August 24th, she was seen checking out. Yeah.

So she wouldn't have been alone too much by herself because Brian got back into Utah on the 23rd. Right. So, technically, he comes. So, more than likely, if she was there multiple nights, he left on the 17th. The 17th. But then again, you have the picture on the 19th. Again, she could have taken that picture with her legs out the window previously. Right.

It doesn't necessarily suggest that she was. That she took it at that moment, right? Yeah, I was taking it at that moment. I mean, yeah, it would make sense that he said, hey, listen, you stay in the hotel until I get back. Don't go nowhere. I'll be back on the 23rd. He arrives back at the hotel on the 23rd. They spend the night in the hotel together. And then she checks out on the 24th and they continue on their trip. That would make reasonable sense. That's six days though, Derek, 17th to the 23rd. He's gone six days. I mean, it's not even the price because you're going to pay the same for the ticket to go there and the ticket to come back regardless of when you go in there and

come back. But why to clear out a storage unit? Did he have to be gone for six days? He could have flown in on the 17th, cleared out the storage unit, flown back the next day. Yeah. Six days. That's almost a week. And that's why I think there's some truth to the idea that maybe it was more than him just flying home for the storage unit.

And maybe now that the Instagram post on the 19th makes more sense because there was some disagreements going on between them. Maybe this was still the residual effect of what happened on the 12th, right? The traffic stop and the embarrassment. I'm saying air quotes here, guys. Embarrassment that Gabby caused for Brian because I'm sure that was the narrative afterwards, by the way. I guarantee it. Yes. He made her feel like she was the reason the police were called because she was acting crazy. Guarantee it.

No doubt in my mind. So you know guys like this, right? Oh, 1000%. So I do think that this might have just been some lingering effects from the traffic stop and maybe he got away and he was teaching her a lesson and that might be why she put up the post, all these things. So it does make sense. It does make sense when you really start to dive into it. It's not a science, but it is a lot of just kind of common sense when you think about it. Yeah, I think that's very true. He probably stormed off, you know, like, I need some time to clear my head through a baby bitch fit and then, you know, like, I need some time to clear my head. Threw a baby bitch fit and then, you know, wanted to basically make her squirm while he was gone. Yeah, I agree.

So she must have been at the hotel for more than two nights because she checked out on the 24th. And on August 21st, Gabby called her father, Joe Petito, and she asked him to order her food from Uber Eats and have it sent to the hotel. So she must have been there at least on the night of the 21st. And on August 24th, like I said, Gabby was seen checking out of the hotel. Employees from the hotel and the Perkins restaurant, which was attached to the hotel and next door, they remembered seeing Gabby, but not Brian, even though he'd flown back the day before. And get this, the hotel where Gabby stayed was only 700 feet away from the FBI's Salt Lake City office. Ah, wow.

Yeah, so close yet so far away. Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. You can't rely on blind faith to get the pregnancy support you deserve. Ritual's Essential Prenatal Multivitamin is the only leading prenatal backed by its own human clinical trial. Essential Prenatal is proven to deliver key nutrients, including folate, biotin, and vitamin D during pregnancy. Get 25% off when you visit ritual.com slash clinical. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Okay, so Brian returned to Utah on

August 23rd. That's four days before Gabby Petito was last seen alive. Now, Gabby last spoke to her mother on the phone on August 25th, And from then on, she would communicate only via text. So it's actually very confusing, the timeline of when Gabby last spoke to this person or that person. But what we kind of have an understanding of is there's two texts that were sent from Gabby to her mother that we know of, at least, that're sort of sending up red flags for Gabby's mother. I'm sure there's other texts. There have been multiple times where reporters have asked Nicole, that's Gabby's mother, you know, what did this text say? What did that text say? And Nicole will basically tell them, like, I can't speak on that right now. So clearly she was instructed by the

police to not talk about these things. But we sort of have a general understanding that the last time Gabby spoke to her mother on the phone or via FaceTime was August 25th. Now, on either August 25th or the 26th, we have that woman, Sunny Mason, who spotted Brian and Gabby at a shop in Idaho. This was a souvenir shop about 30 miles away from Grand Teton National Park. And we did briefly talk about Sunny Mason in part one. She'd bonded with Gabby over Gabby's flower tattoo. And she was the one who had noticed that Brian was acting kind of pushy about Gabby telling people that they were engaged. So he wanted her to refer to him as her fiance instead of her partner. So on August 27th, a text from Gabby's phone to her mother, Nicole, said, can you help Stan? I just keep getting his voicemails and missed calls.

All right. So from what we know from Gabby's mother, Gabby did have a grandfather named Stan. But according to Nicole, Gabby's mother, Gabby would never call her grandfather Stan. She would never call him by his first name. And this raised red flags for Nicole. So Nicole's thinking, is Gabby actually the one sending these text messages? Because this isn't how she talks. And this isn't what she calls her grandfather. Now, during the trip, Gabby had stayed in contact with her family consistently.

Sometimes she wouldn't be able to reach out to them for like a day or so, but that was only during times where they were traveling and she was in a bad service area. But Nicole claimed that as the trip progressed, she could tell from conversations with Gabby that there was building tension between her daughter and Brian. So many people online have theorized that this text, the Stan text, it may have been Gabby sending a message to her mother. Maybe Gabby was being watched. Maybe she felt her texts or calls were being monitored and she wanted to send a secret message. But they're saying that Gabby used the name Stan as an acronym for send the authorities now.

And especially with the word help coming directly before the name Stan, because that's how it goes in the text message. She says, can you help Stan? And if you kind of spread that out, it's help send authorities now. So what do you think about about that? We did talk about this on the phone a little bit. Yeah, I'd love for, you know, it wouldn't make a difference now. So what do you think about that? We did talk about this on the phone a little bit. Yeah. I'd love for, you know, it wouldn't make a difference now. I don't know. I don't know. I recommend to all families have code words with their children, even not in a situation where we have these kidnappings by phone where these basically these scam artists will say they have

your child even though they don't. And they'll have a kid crying in the background. It's a pre-recording. And one of the things you can do is ask them to ask your child what their code word is. You know what I mean? To see if you confirm that they do actually have your child or not. Or you could put it in a text message or something like that. Or if they make you call your family. Right.

A way of getting a message to them without having to spell it out. Yeah. If this wasn't preset up, although it would be something that is possible. I don't think why, I don't know why Gabby would send that message thinking, because I didn't, I didn't know that was a thing and,

or I wouldn't be able to discern that from that text message. And I'm, I'm a cop. So either I'm a really crappy cop or it's something that you would, again, the people online, all we have to do now is dissect what you have. And it's almost like you can almost make something out of anything if you contort it enough. It's kind of like the Zodiac anagram coding. Now people are pulling messages out of it to fit whatever narrative they want to push. They said they've identified the Zodiac and all this stuff. So I personally don't think that's

what she was doing. But I do think, and I don't want to get ahead of us here, that that could be an indication that it wasn't Gabby texting at all. I don't think it's as deep as her sending a secret message. I think it might not have been her texting her mother. Yeah, if she didn't have a grandfather named Stan, I might consider that something bizarre was going on, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, if she didn't have a grandfather named Stan. But how would she expect her mother to know what that meant? I mean, it's so discreet.

Yeah. It's almost too discreet, you know? Yeah, like very discreet to the point where a person who worked in law enforcement has never heard of it before. No. Did she feel like she was in that much danger where she couldn't get away for a second to just- Say, hey, help me or call 911 or something. I completely agree. I think it is more of an indication that she probably didn't send that text. Right. And just to kind of catch up again, we have the traffic stop on the 12th. We have Brian arriving back on the 23rd.

Them check, you know, at least Gabby checking out of the hotel on the 24th. And then this odd text message being sent on the 27th. And why those dates are important is because everything we've talked about so far, we know they were fighting on the 12th. We, I think it's reasonable to assume that this traffic stop did not help their relationship. It probably caused more problems, right? I'm sure Brian was blaming her the entire time since that traffic stop for the traffic stop. He goes home, maybe to quote unquote, teach her a lesson. He finally comes back out there. He might still be

giving her the cold shoulder and kind of like talking down to her and again, still blaming her for everything that's transpired up to that point. So could something had taken place in between the 24th and the 27th that resulted in her death? Absolutely. He's sending this text message in order to not raise any flags back home. Yeah, and what we're going to get into in the next section is all these eyewitnesses who saw Gabby and Brian and all these eyewitnesses who saw Brian alone. So it's going to help us sort of piece together, hopefully it's going to help us piece together a timeline of when was Gabby last seen? What day was she last seen? And was it around the 27th?

And I'm going to go ahead and say it definitely was probably around that time because Gabby stops calling her family and she wouldn't do that if she had service. And I wanted to ask you that question because I saw a lot of this online, but I defer to you on these things. I mean, was she known to always call home?

Was that a common occurrence? Okay. Yeah. So it wasn't like she was checking. Yeah. Okay. The entire trip, she checked in every day if she could. Almost every day, really? Almost every day. Yes. Okay. So there's your pattern. Talk to her brother on Snapchat, talk to her mother and father on FaceTime or calls. She was constantly in contact with her family. And in previous trips that she had taken, it was the same. So yes, obviously when she completely stops calling people, texting them,

FaceTiming them, responding to their messages, asking where she is. Yes, this is a red flag. Yeah. Pattern, right? What do we always say? What am I going to say right here? Best predictor of future behavior. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. It's the same thing. And so you're right. And it's like, you know, when she changed, what caused her to change her behavior? Or in this case, what caused her to stop to be able to carry out her behavior? What made her unable to do what she's normally done?

So I'm glad we're getting into that because I do think we can probably narrow down a time of death, the time when this incident occurred, and really focus on that to try to kind of figure out because there's a lot of speculation out there. A lot. About when she was killed. And so as you're talking, there's a lot you're saying that's all important, but I'm really focusing on dates and times and past behavior and maybe a motive, what might have led up to the strangulation, to this killing. So yeah, fascinating stuff so far. Well, apparently Gabby had sent another text to her mother. Some sources say that this text was sent on August 30th. I think that these sources were probably very early on sources because if I look at the dates on them, they all say like September 2021.

So this was right when this was all unfolding. I think they're incorrect about that text being sent on August 30th because I believe, and we'll get to it further on in the case, but I believe Gabby's phone was turned off on the evening of August 27th. So this text was probably sent to Nicole on that same day. But of course, this being the case that it is with just little bits of information being released little by little, we don't really know. But this text said that there was no service in Yosemite, which is completely weird because Gabby and Brian had not been planning to go to Yosemite. They'd told their parents and friends

and just random people they met that their next stop was Yellowstone National Park. And these two parks are not even anywhere close to each other. And actually, Gabby was supposed to be meeting with a friend at Yellowstone National Park, but Gabby never made it there, nor did she call or text to let her friend know that she wasn't going to make it.

And this friend, who prefers to remain anonymous, she claims that she knows if Gabby had been in an area where she had cell phone service and reception, she would have reached out. She would have touched base. And this friend said, you know, my birthday was on August 28th. When Gabby didn't call or text me to wish me a happy birthday, I was like, well, you know, no big deal because she's she's traveling like cross country. So there may be something going on or, you know, maybe she doesn't have service. But as the days passed, the friend realized, you know, she didn't meet me at Yellowstone

like she said she would. She didn't call me on my birthday. These are all things that are out of the norm for Gabby's behavior. Yeah. Again, narrowing down the idea that she didn't just stop calling everybody for no reason. Something transpired. And we know because of the information we have now that she was murdered. And so I think it's reasonable to assume based on what you're saying and the lack of any type of activity to friends, family members. I mean, you could make the argument maybe she was just mad at her mom or something, but to not reach out to the person she was supposed to meet in a few days,

I don't think anybody listening to this or watching this would say, yeah, that makes a lot of rational sense. That's something someone would do. Yeah, and why would Gabby tell her mom that she was in Yosemite, like no service in Yosemite? Now, we definitely believe, and as does Gabby's mother, Nicole, and everyone in Gabbyemite, like no service in Yosemite. Now we definitely believe, and as, as does Gabby's mother, Nicole and everyone in Gabby's family, they believe that this Yosemite text was not

sent by Gabby, um, which, which would lead us to believe that it was sent by Brian, right? But why would he say that they were in Yosemite? He might've, he might've won. He had other things on his mind at that point, Yellowstone, Yosemite. And also have won. He had other things on his mind at that point. Yellowstone, Yosemite. And also, if you just murdered your girlfriend and her mom's reaching out, wanting to speak to you, clearly you have other things on your mind. He might have mixed them up. I don't know why. I mean, it seems like a pretty big screw up when you're trying to make sure it's a believable text. When you're this cross-country traveler who's just so in tune with the earth, you think you'd know the difference between Yellowstone and Yosemite, right?

Right. But if she's already dead at that point, he's scrambling. I don't think she was dead at that point, but- You don't think she was dead by the 27th? No. You don't? No, because we have people seeing her on the 27th. We're going to get to that.

We have people seeing her on the 27th. So we could get down to hours then, right? I mean, are you going to get into- I think it her on the 27th. People seeing her on the 27th. So we could get down to hours then, right? I think it happened on the 27th and the evening of the 27th. But I don't know. We're going to have to go through it. And I want to know what you think. I'm pushing you here. But do we know what time the text message for the grandfather, the stand text message,

what time it was sent at? They haven't revealed that. Yeah. Believe me. That'll be interesting. I wish I knew what time those text messages had been sent. But due to the sort of timeline that we get from these eyewitnesses, I think we can sort of piece it together. Okay.

All right. All right. So these eyewitnesses, we'll start with that. The first one is August 25th at around 5 p.m. This was a couple, Shannon and Russell Baker. And this is actually a really sad story because I get all into these people's personal lives. But Shannon and Russell, they're married. And Russell was diagnosed with cancer, like really bad cancer. So they said, you know, we better live our lives while we can. We're going to do this thing that we've always wanted to do, which is to basically go out on the road and travel the country. So this nice couple did that because he had gotten cancer. And it's so, so sad. But they actually spotted Gabby's distinctive Ford Transit van in a parking area near Jenny Lake in Grand Teton National Park.

So the Russells said that the park was crowded that day because it was National Park Services Day, so there was no fee for entry. But despite this, Shannon is sure that the van was Gabby's, saying, quote, it had the black ladder on the back and the two black rooftops on top, the two bars, and we made the comment that it would be

the perfect little camper van to go around in, end quote. So that's the 25th. They're in Grand Teton National Park. We also have another eyewitness sighting from August 26th, but the witness, a woman named Jessica Schultz, claims to have seen Brian alone, and she said he was acting weird. Jessica was camping in Spread Creek, so this is very close to the area where Gabby's remains would be found. And this is in Wyoming, by the way, so she's driving behind a white Ford Transit van with Florida plates. She said the van was driving really slowly down a narrow road, and it didn't seem like the driver knew where he was going. At one point, this van pulled partially off the road, which caused Jessica to have to sort of like pull around it.

And as she was pulling around the van, she said she looked in to the driver's side and the driver looked like a generic white guy, which is the perfect, perfect description of Brian Laundrie. But she paid attention to him and what he looked like because she said, quote, you know, when you're out in the middle of nowhere, your heckles go up when you see something out of the ordinary, end quote. So Jessica saw this same van parked in the same place on August 27th and 28th. And she felt that this was strange because it was just kind of like off to the side of the road. It wasn't a designated parking or camping area. She didn't see anyone in or around the van. And there was no signs that a camp was being set up. And you might say, well, what kind of camp is going to be set up?

They're sleeping inside the van. Well, they still have to cook and stuff. So they bring out their little camp stove and, you know, like chairs and stuff. And there would be signs that somebody was like camping out in this van. And there was nothing like that. So like I said, where Jessica believes she saw Brian Laundrie, whom she recognized after being sent a video of the Moab, Utah body cam footage, this was very, very, very close to where Gabby Petito's remains would later be found. On August 27th, a woman named Nia Angelo and her boyfriend, Matthew England, this was a couple from New Orleans,

they claim to have seen Gabby and Brian at the Mary Piglet's Tex-Mex restaurant in Jackson, Wyoming. This restaurant is a 40-minute drive from where Gabby's body would be found. So this is August 27th. This is the same day that Gabby's mother, Nicole, gets the strange text about Stan. So Nina Angelo claimed that the couple, a.k.a. Brian and Gabby, they were having a heated argument and making a scene in the restaurant. She said, quote, they left like abruptly and Petito was standing on the sidewalk crying and Laundrie walked back in and was like screaming at the hostess and then walked back out. And they walked back in like four more times to talk to the manager and to like tell the hostess off. She seemed really upset. So when she's talking about she in this quote, she's talking about Gabby.

So Nina goes on to say she seemed really upset. She was emotional. She was crying. She seemed kind of embarrassed. At one point, she walked back into the restaurant on one of his attempts to walk back. And I think she followed him and was trying to, I think, get him to leave and like drop the situation. Like she just kind of wanted to diffuse the situation. She was like, I'm sorry, come on, let's just go. But she was visibly upset. End quote. What do you think about this? To me, it says motive, right? It says as far as what led up to the death of Gabby Petito. We're talking about a series of events all the way leading up to this, starting on the 12th, which again, I keep going back to it, but I'm assuming the arguments between them had started even before that.

That was just the first argument that was reported to the police. So this relationship at this point, although it's been tumultuous since they've met, there's an escalation there. It's becoming more frequent. It's becoming more violent. It probably started behind closed doors when people weren't around. They kept it to themselves. Now it's escalated to the point where people are noticing it in parking lots and calling the police because it looks bad enough to warrant the police.

And they're having outright arguments and fights in public places like a restaurant where they really don't care that people are seeing what's going on. So it's escalating to the point where it's a pattern that's only getting worse as we continue. And it ultimately leads to her death, which we know that, right? We know that's a fact. And again, I think this is really important because one, now that you're saying it, I think there were multiple people in that restaurant that have confirmed that it was Gabby and Brian. So I think it's fair to say she was still alive on the 27th. And we go back to the times, right?

Was this the argument that led to her death? I think so. Was this the beginning of the end for Gabby Petito? Well, I mean, you know how they say, like, when you see a couple fighting in public, what's the one thing you usually say? Like, oh, they're acting like this in front of everyone. What's happening when they're alone? Exactly. Right.

So I think what happened here, because it says that apparently Brian was having a what's what they called a stand up fight with the waitress. to mean that he was so upset, so aggravated, so angry that he literally got up out of his chair, stood up and was yelling at their waitress. And Gabby was crying and repeatedly apologizing for her boyfriend's behavior. So what do we have here as options? In my opinion, two things. They leave the restaurant and Brian's like, how dare you? How dare you embarrass me like that? Apologizing for my behavior. I had every right to be upset. She forgot my water. She forgot my leave the restaurant and brian's like how dare you how dare you embarrass me like that apologizing for my behavior i had every right to be upset she forgot my water she forgot my lemon in my water like she completely sucks at her job how dare you my lemon she forgot the lemon in my water you would go there she because that's brian man he's such a lemon in my. He's such a baby bitch boy, but, or he was anyways. So he's upset because he feels justified in his behavior.

And she was apologizing for him, which most likely was incredibly embarrassing for him, even though in reality, he was the one who was embarrassing her. So he's either upset because she apologized or Gabby seeing the way Brian treats. The waitress says to him, I can't be with someone like you because I know I've been on dates before.

Well, when I was in my 20s and I'd go out with a guy and he would be so rude to the server and I'd be like, oh, I can never I can never see myself being with you because if you treat a server like this, like, how are you going to treat me? So she may have seen his true self at that point and said, maybe it's not just me. Maybe it's not just me he berates. Maybe it's not just me he finds fault with. Maybe it's everybody in his life. And therefore, it's not me. It's him. I think that's very possible. There's something that happened that day that was different than the other fights, right? Because this has been happening all along and it never led to this.

It could have just been a natural escalation, but there might've been something there, a trigger, a phrase, something that Gabby said that put him over the edge. And I, I, I'm one of those people, just like everybody else. We're all wondering what that thing was. And I think what you've said could be it, where it almost seems like Gabby is standing up for herself a little bit more. She's been with him a while. She's getting sick of his bull. You know what? I think what you've said could be it, where it almost seems like Gabby is standing up for herself a little bit more. She's been with him a while.

She's getting sick of his bull. You know what? And she might be calling him out a little bit more and maybe not just kind of like cowering to whatever he says, which for someone who's a control freak like Brian, that's a problem because if you lose control, then they start thinking for themselves and that completely takes away your power. So could she had said something in that moment enraged him and caused him to strangle her? Absolutely. Anything's on the table. But I do think it's enlightening that there was a fight right before this text message came in from Gabby's phone to her mother, which was so odd and didn't make any real sense at all. whether it was this fight that directly led to Gabby's murder. And it still could be that this fight led directly to Gabby's murder. But you have to understand that if Brian's in a rage, it's probably going to happen right after this fight. So if she had sent her mother these messages earlier in the day and then or or this happened earlier in the day

and then Brian was sending these texts from Gabby's phone later on the day of August 27th. Yeah, I think what we're going to find, if our speculation is right,'s phone to her mother is much later in the day, which could be a. No, I actually think it's the opposite. I think it was earlier in the day and I'm going to tell you why. But let's take a quick break. All right. So I'm looking at our notes. I'm looking at the sort of timeline that we're, you know, sort of throwing together from eyewitness testimony and text messages and things. So Jessica Schultz, she was the one who was camping near Spread Creek. She claims that she saw Brian driving alone and acting weird on August 26th. But then she saw the van again in that same place on August 27th and the 28th. And she felt

that was weird because this wasn't an area where you would park or camp. So what I'm thinking happened, and this is just speculation, Gabby wakes up on the morning of the 27th. Her and Brian go to get some food, maybe breakfast or lunch. They get into this fight at the restaurant. Then they leave. He murders her. Now remember, Spread Creek is right around the corner from where Gabby's remains were found. The van was seen in the Spread Creek area on the 26th, the 27th, and Brian could have been in that area, possibly by himself, or maybe Gabby was in the back of the van sleeping or working on her computer on the 26th when Jessica passed them. But Jessica did say it seemed like Brian didn't know where he was going. So maybe he was scouting out areas ahead of time. Now, there's going to be a big question that's constantly going through my mind. I don't know about yours, but was this premeditated when Brian killed Gabby? Because let's be honest here at this point, I know there's

people out there who are still saying like, you don't know if it was Brian. That's crazy, guys. That's crazy. Yeah. That's crazy. If you believe that, you know, we love you here, but we're probably not going to be saying the things you want us to say. This is like you're just defying logic at this point. All the signs are there. Let's just ignore that because that's not a possibility. Brian Laundrie killed Gabby Petito. It's just a matter of what happened. Allegedly.

Allegedly. I got you, guys. Look at me throwing out your calling cards there. Saving me. Yeah. But it's just a matter to us at this point of when it happened and really why. We'd like to know why. So before the break, you said that you think it was, I think we're saying the same thing, actually. Maybe I was explaining myself wrong because I'm saying he goes to the spot, you know, Jessica sees him on the 26th, 27th, sees the VN. They go get breakfast or an early him on the 26th, 27th, sees the VN. They go get breakfast

or an early lunch on the 27th, right? They go back to that location. Something goes down. Maybe it's just a residual effect of what happened at the restaurant. He kills her. I'm guessing, my guess is that when it comes out, we're going to find that the text message sent from Gabby's phone to her mother about Stan is going to be much later in the day on the 27th. That's what I'm saying. Sent by Brian. Sent by Brian. Because now he realizes I just killed her. I have to try to create a bigger window of when this could have happened.

I got to keep these people. Yeah, I got to keep these people thinking she's fine. So they're not asking questions. Right. So I think on August 26th, they are driving, Gabby and Brian both, driving where Jessica Schultz sees them. Gabby's probably in the back. They're looking for a place to camp. Clearly, Brian doesn't know where the hell he is or where he's going. They're looking for a place to camp. This is the first time they've been through this area. They pull over on the side of the road for some reason where it's not a designated camping or parking area, but whatever. The next morning they go to breakfast and then they go back to their same site where they had been the day before.

Still arguing. Still arguing. Of course, still arguing. Yes. Yeah. Carry over from the restaurant. It escalates. He kills her.

Now he realizes I because this is what I'm thinking. And if I'm getting. And I don't, and if I'm getting ahead, tell me to shut up, but he's thinking, Oh my God, I just killed her. So how am I going to get out of this? I have to get out of this area so I can create a reasonable amount of time where someone else could have killed her. So I got to make it look like she's still alive right now, because if she stops responding or talking to her mom, which she does every day, they're going to start to pinpoint this day as the day when she was killed, which only leaves me as a suspect.

So he sends out this random text message later that evening, and it's kind of not well-prepared, stupid. He makes a mistake. Because he probably doesn't know what Gabby calls Stan, her grandfather. Does she call him grandfather? Does she call him grandpa? Does she call him papi? Does she call him grandfather? Does she call him grandpa? Does she call him poppy? Does she call him papa?

He doesn't know. So he thinks Stan is the safest thing to call Gabby's grandfather. And you know what he did there? This is something else that you got to look into. He sent a message that wouldn't require a deeper conversation or a response. It's a request.

Can you call Stan? see what's going on? He's leaving me voicemails or whatever. It's not engaging with them to keep a conversation going. No, he said, I'm getting all his voicemails. Right, I'm getting all his voicemails. So I guarantee you, Gabby's dead, Brian's got her phone, and he's looking for something on her phone that justifies a reason

to reach out and say something like, oh, it doesn't elicit, but doesn't cause, doesn't create a reason for mom to call. Doesn't create a reason for a back and forth. Exactly. Hey, can you take care of this? Yeah, that's it. He doesn't want mom to FaceTime her at that moment. Because here's the thing.

If he writes anything that might cause Nicole, is her mom's name correct? Yes. Nicole to call her back or FaceTime, which we've all done. You and I do it all the time. You'll text me and I'll call. I prefer on the phone. If you don't pick up right then and there, later on, that's your pinpoint. That's your time of death. That's when you know something went down. She texted me. I tried calling her back. It was literally seconds after she texted me, no answer. Well, now you know. And so if we operate under that understanding that that was the pinpoint, right? Like that could have been the time of death. Back to what you said earlier, you were talking about the alleged Yosemite text that happened days later. Could

this line up with that, that maybe it wasn't what, you know, some people reported on the 30th and it was earlier like you suggested? Yeah. So like I said, those initial reports were coming out right around, you know, the September 12th, September 13th area. And as we know, or we haven't really gotten there yet, but most people who are familiar with this case know that September 11th was when Gabby was reported missing. So these were very early reports and they said that August 30th was the last text. However, we know that couldn't have been possible because Gabby's phone was turned off before August 30th, and it wasn't used after it was turned off. So what I'm thinking is that Yosemite text probably came in on the 27th or went to Gabby's mother on the 27th. So what I think is Gabby's mother probably tried to FaceTime Gabby. But at this point on the evening of the 27th, Gabby was already dead.

So Brian is not going to answer this FaceTime, but he's also got to give an explanation for why Gabby, Gabby is not answering the FaceTime. So he sends this text, no service in Yosemite. So sometimes with cell phones, you'll, no service in Yosemite. So sometimes with cell phones, you'll have enough service to get a text out, but especially in an iPhone, or if it just goes through SMS instead of iMessage, you'll have enough service to get the text out, but you won't be able to answer a FaceTime call. And I think that's what he was trying to do. I'd be very interested to see where that Yosemite text came from, because I'm sure the police have already gone through Gabby's phone to see what the location was when that text was sent.

Yeah. I bet you it comes back that it was not near Yosemite. Exactly. But that does make sense, because we're saying earlier the Stan message might have been sent in order to kind of show proof of life. She's still alive, but without eliciting a response where she would want to call. Unfortunately for Brian, allegedly, that didn't work. And so what you're saying is that would make sense with this Yosemite message now. I think so. Yeah. Even though he tried to avoid it, she still tried to FaceTime her and then made up a lie on the spot, which in reality didn't even make sense based on where he was. Correct. But I mean, obviously it didn't raise enough of a red flag at that point to prompt anybody to do anything. So I mean, in a way he was successful.

Successful. But I mean, again, maybe this is just the way mine would work. If he kills Gabby, he's not only thinking about the moment, he's thinking about how, as far as everyone knows, he's the only person with her. So he has to know he has an uphill battle to begin with as far as everyone knows, he's the only person with her. So he has to know he has an uphill battle to begin with as far as when it comes to being considered a suspect, he's going to be the prime guy. So he has to create a window where something could have happened to her that wouldn't involve him. And so he's trying to maybe create that narrative now. Maybe that was even his reasoning for going back to Florida later, which I'm sure you're going to get into, but trying to show a window of opportunity where even though he was with her, there was a certain period of time, maybe later on the 27th, where he was not

with her. He was probably trying to create that narrative. So maybe down the road, he would have a justification as to why he was not the person who killed Gabby Petito, even though he knew based on other people seeing him, it was going to be, that was gonna be a tough one to pull off. Yeah. It's very interesting because the timeline as,

as we're sort of going through it together is becoming a little bit more clear to me. And personally, I don't believe that, that Gabby Petito lived past the 27th. If she had, she probably would have texted her friend the next day, the 28th. Remember, that was her friend's birthday. This was something Gabby would have done.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. I definitely think we're zeroing in on the 27th. Yeah. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and dissect this further. Okay. So a couple other people believed that they at least saw Gabby and Brian's van on August 27th. So this is a family of van lifers. They have a YouTube channel. It's called Red, White, and Bethune. The parents are Jen and Kyle Bethune. They're a married couple who travel around the country in a van with their dogs and their kids.

And they actually captured footage of what is believed to be Gabby's van on the GoPro that was affixed to the front of their vehicle. So, like I said, they do this van life content. So they've got this video camera there on their car at all times so they can record footage of the roads and scenery. So Jen Bethune says they were driving by the Spread Creek camping area at about 6 p.m. This is on the night of the 27th. They saw a white van, so they slowed down to say hello because, you know, I guess that's van life culture. When you see another V-Lifer, you stop and you say hello. So at this point, they noticed the van had Florida license plates. There was no one inside of it, as far as they could tell. Kyle Bethune said, quote,

the van looked pretty much abandoned. We figured maybe they were out hiking. They were just chilling inside. There were no doors open, end quote. So there's people online who have really like gone through this video, slowed it down frame by frame. And you can actually see in this video, if it's slowed down, a part of this video that shows the van's rear door closing as the Bethune's van approached. So this is August 27th. This is the same day that Gabby sent her mother the Stan text. And this is also the same day that Gabby's phone was turned off and all activity stopped, which is a reason why I believe

that Yosemite text was sent on that day. Now, of course, the internet went crazy with this video. They analyzed it, they picked it apart. Some people claim to be able to see things in this video that suggest that maybe someone was in the van. Some people say they can see a notebook lying on the dirt was in the van. Some people say they can see a notebook lying on the dirt next to the van and a flip-flop that they assume belonged to Gabby next to the van on the

outside by like the rear of the van. So I definitely see the flip-flop. I will say that. I've watched this video today alone probably 120 times. I kept rewinding it, rewinding it. I took a screenshot of it and zoomed in on it. It definitely looks like a sort of brown beige flip-flop. You've seen the video too, right? Yeah. So for me, the enhanced video, no doubt in my mind, and I'm not one to kind of like read between the lines. If I see it, I see it. If I don't, I don't. I am 1000% confident that Van Doren is shutting as that YouTube video, as that YouTuber is pulling up. There's no doubt.

I actually saw some photos. And again, sometimes when you enhance things, you see things that aren't there. I actually see two sandals and they're both positioned with the toes facing the back bumper of the car. They're kind of positioned like you would leave them before entering the van. There is something else that you're, I think you're referring to, which is the van. Yeah. There is something else that I think you're referring to, which is the notebook. Some people have said it's a notebook or even a cell phone,

but I don't think it looks like a cell phone unless you had like an older style phone, but you definitely see like a second object there. Some people said that if it was one sandal, it would be a sign of struggle, which I agree with. Like, why would you have one sandal sitting outside the van? But to me, and I could be wrong, we'll throw it up here. It looks like it's two sandals as if you

were about to get in the van and you didn't want to have your feet inside the area where you sleep, like your shoes on where you sleep. So check this out. I remember a portion from the body cam footage where they were in Moab. Gabby said something like, you know, it's me. I'm a little crazy. I had just cleaned the van. And then Brian got in with the dirty feet. Now, remember, Brian likes to hike barefoot, right? Or in barefoot, whatever, whatever it's called. He likes to hike barefoot. So he's got these dirty Fred Flintstone feet and he's climbing into a van that she just cleaned. And they get into an argument, which maybe prompted them to run up and down the sidewalk, hitting each other and struggling over Gabby's cell phone. So now what we see is this this van.

Like you said, I do see the van door closing as well. Oh, yeah. You see flip flop. Yeah. You see flip flops sitting outside. And like you said, you see the flip flops positioned in a way that you would leave them if you were getting inside the van in your sleeping area because the mattress is basically on the floor of the van, right? And you would want to leave your flip flops outside. So I believe that whatever happened to Gabby happened inside that van. And then he removed her body. I think you're right. I definitely think it's something went

down in the van. The question I have is like some people were saying, oh, that was a sign of struggle. They might have that the YouTuber family might have been driving by right when the incident was happening. I don't know about that. I, you know, it's 6 p.m. at night. You know, it probably already happened by then. For all we know, the shoes could have been left there because whatever happened to the van. Yes.

Yeah. Got into the van. Was she still inside the van when they drove by? Maybe. Or maybe that door shutting was him coming back from disposing of her body. Either scenario is very possible. But again, go look for yourselves because I think it can play tricks on you. I see two sandals and they look like they were taken off without a struggle.

They weren't like thrown all over the place. But then again, you guys may look at it and see something different. Yeah. And I mean, if people, you said you think you see a secondary object. You don't know if it's a notebook or what it is, but you see some sort of secondary object. And if it's a notebook, then we have to now pull back from this most recent news of Brian being found and what was found near his remains, a book bag and a notebook. Yeah. And from what I was seeing online, I don't know if it was substantiated. Actually, I think it was by the main reporter who's covering all this, that the notebook was salvageable.

What that means, we don't know. That's interesting. Yeah. It was salvageable. So what their definition of salvageable is, I don't know. But I actually want to say, I think it was, shout out true crime YouTuber Kendall Ray. I think she was the one who retweeted it that I saw where it said that there was a couple key points taken from their interview with North north port police and one of those things were was that the notebook was salvageable which is is very you know exciting because i think that brian being found dead left a lot of people with this sort of hole and there's so many people out there who are sort of saying well he's not really dead you know he must not really be dead because they almost want him to still be alive so they can have some sort of closure and they can understand why he did this and how. And that notebook might tell

us that. He may have written something in there. He may have written a suicide note. He may have written in a journal form what he was feeling, what happened, what he did. He might have wanted to tell his story before he left the world. And that wouldn't be crazy. We've seen that many times. I hope he did. I don't have a lot of hope for it. I remember working the OJ Simpson case when we were doing it on Discovery and he had wrote a note. He was planning on killing himself, the whole Bronco thing. Yeah. And he had wrote a note.

And even in that note, he was kind of just, he gave some indications that he could be involved, but he never admitted to it. Of course, but you could see through it, right? You could see through it, but he was still trying to like justify you know i loved her all these things and like i hope it's not one of those because i remember reading the note and i was just like he's just again trying to go out with his narrative right he's going to kill himself before this chase is over and he's going to go out with that note being his final words which is fine but brian's narrative is still better than no narrative and i think people are smart enough to read between the lines and they can tell when he's

being self-serving. They can tell when he's building his own narrative. And also, I mean, especially these like Internet sleuths, you know, they're insane, like in a good way, in the best possible way where they will pick apart every word he said, fact check it, you know, check it against the timeline, check it against evidence that they have and they know. And they'll be able to tell what's what's genuine and what's not. Yeah, we'll see. We will see. We'll see what he does. You know, I have a hard time believing it'll be a confession,

but I'm hopeful for Gabby's family it is because I do think they would rather have him alive and in court, but I think that would be a consolation to at least have him in his own words explain what happened that day because I really think that's the real tragedy here is that Gabby's family doesn't get those answers, right? Why did you do this? What happened out there? And to just kind of be left with nothing for the rest of your life, I don't know how, I mean, first losing your daughter, but then on top of it, not getting any answers regarding what happened. That's tough. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before, but I definitely don't think that Brian Laundrie would give a full confession. Nope. No. Nope.

No. The guy who goes out in the woods, and I think we're going to find, took his own life. That's my opinion. Yeah. If he was going to give a full confession, he would have turned himself in. Yeah. And then took his own life. Yeah. I don't see it happen. full confession, he would have turned himself in. Yeah. And then took his own life. Yeah, I don't see it happen. But again, yeah, hope we're wrong. Well, so we don't really know what happened between the evening of the 27th and August 30th. But on August 30th, Gabby Petito's bank card was used.

And obviously, we're going to go ahead and assume that it was Brian Laundrie that used it because an arrest warrant later accused Brian of spending $1,000 on an unauthorized Capital One debit card that was in Gabby's name. So we don't really know where it was used or what was purchased. And that's very frustrating because they said that the card was used, but they didn't say like where and you know, what was bought. Like, was he at a gas station was he at a convenience store what was he buying but according to richard stafford the petito family attorney quote he ran he stole her credit card he used her credit card to get home and then ran from the police end quote so let me ask you a question would the petito family attorney richard stafford would he have information from the police that we don't have?

So for him to say that he that Brian had run and he stole her credit card and used her credit card to get home, it makes it sound like Brian used this credit card to basically like put gas in the van so that he could drive from Wyoming back to Florida. Would would Richard Stafford know things that we don't as the Petito family attorney? I think the family would. And I think through them, I think they probably had access to her card information. They could probably call using her social security number. And based on the situation, the bank was probably willing to cooperate with the family. They were able to identify themselves as her parents.

Because depending on when this statement was made, it would take a little while for the FBI to get a subpoena signed and then executed by the bank, Gabby's bank. So they may have been able, we've done this before where instead of getting a search warrant for something, there are times where it's quicker to go directly to the victim's family than get the subpoena, right? You can get the search warrant. So if you get their consent, you can get access to that information immediately. And I'm sure they pitched it to Gabby's family as, hey, listen, we want to try to locate Brian. He may be in possession of her credit cards. Would you mind giving us access to the account? Which they can do. So yeah, per the family, Richard would have that information. And I do agree with you, it's probably used for travel expenses, gas, whatever it may be.

During the path that he took to get home, he funded that trip through Gabby's credit card. Yeah, because from Jackson, Wyoming to North Port, Florida, it's about 2,400 miles. So I guess we can assume that this card was used to basically put gas in the van from Wyoming to Florida. Yeah, about $1,000? Yeah, it makes sense. That makes sense. Yep. A van, 1,000 of 2,400 miles?

Yep. Probably, and the price is for gas right now, probably about $1,000. That and a couple snacks at the rest stop. A couple Gatorades, you know, vitamin waters. That's exactly. Well, he wouldn't probably do. No, plastic bottles, yeah. Yep, wouldn't do it.

I was just about to say it. He wouldn't do it. He's probably like boiling his own urine and straining it to create drinking water. No, but it makes sense. And that's how he knows. He had access to the debit. He could probably see the purchases that were made with the Capital One card. So this does make a lot of sense, right?

What we're theorizing here, because two days later, Brian Laundrie and the van were back in North Port, Florida. But Gabby was not with them. And Brian didn't call anyone to let them know that he was back in Florida, you know, besides his family, obviously, like his parents knew he was back because he was living with them. But he didn't call Gabby's parents and say, hey, I'm back. And you know what? Gabby's not with me. It's me and the van. But there's no Gabby. Because then what would he have to do? He'd have to answer questions about, well, where the hell is Gabby? If you have her van and you're here in Florida, where is she? Why isn't she with you?

And then to add insult to injury, this dude actively ignored calls and texts from members of Gabby's family who, as the days went on with no word from Gabby, had started to get concerned. And not only did Brian ignore these calls and texts, but Brian's mother and father did as well. And that's where we're going to pick up next time. We're going to pick up with Brian back in Florida, Gabby missing, everyone having questions, Brian and his parents not talking to anybody, and then Brian just vanishing. Yeah.

I mean, I really think we're starting to hone in on definitely the day, but also a time in which she was killed. You have it from the YouTube video. You have it from the chain of events that led up to it. And so when you look at the 27th, the witness said that she saw the van also possibly on the 28th, correct? Right. So he probably was there the 28th, you know, whatever happened the 27th, he disposes of the body. I'm assuming that if he were to dispose of the body, when we see the YouTube video, it's probably not then. If I had to. If you said, Derek, you got to make a

decision right now, what do you think? I would assume he would wait until late at night when it's under the cover of dark to take her body out wherever you're going to take it. You're not going to do that in the middle of the day. So do I think that door closing represents him coming back to the van after disposing of her body. I don't. I think a reasonable person would say, I'm going to wait till everybody's sleeping until this park is completely dark, and then I'll bring her out there. So he's there until the morning of the 28th. Yes. I know the charge.

I think he was probably there most of the day on the 28th because he doesn't start driving back to Florida until the 30th, right? Because you're talking, you get back in Florida on the 1st. It's about a 20-hour drive from Jackson, Wyoming to North Port, Florida. So you're not driving nonstop for 20 hours. So he probably stayed there the 28th, set out on the 29th, camped somewhere the night of the 29th, got some rest, and continued driving the next day, showing up in Florida on the 1st. Right. Uses the car on the 30th, got some rest and continue driving the next day, showing up in Florida on the first. Right. Uses the car on the 30th because he's getting low on gas or whatever.

He's filling up, yeah. Fills up there to get the rest of the way home. It makes sense. And all that after the 27th also gives more credence to the idea that it was, in fact, the 27th and not the 25th. I mean, listen, you can pinpoint it, too. We know she was alive on the 27th midday, at least whenever they were at the restaurant. So that's not up for debate. There are multiple accounts confirming that. So anytime before that, you know, people saying that she might've been dead almost immediately after the traffic stopped,

because I've seen that too. It's not the case. There's no way. She was alive until at least the morning of the 27th. We'll, you know, We'll learn the time in which she was seen at the restaurant. And then based on what happened afterwards and based on that weird text, you probably only have like an eight to 10 hour window where she was killed. If that text message represents her being dead. But we don't know what time the text message was sent. Right. That's what we got to find out. And we will, by the way.

It'll come out. I mean, all this will come out. Eventually, yeah. Eventually, it'll come out, whether it's by legitimate sources or leaked through the family or whatever. It's going to come out. It's too polarizing of a case for it not to come out. But I am really interested to find out what time that text message was sent at, because I do think it's going to line up with what we're saying, what we've been saying this whole time as far as that was his first attempt to try to create a narrative that although you hadn't heard from Gabby, mom and dad, she's still alive. Here's a little taste of her being alive still. And it's it's weird because I would almost go as far as to say that when the Bethunes drove by, Gabby may have still been alive. It's six o'clock. Right. This is August. So the sun's going to be up until like nine in August at around this time and in this area.

So I think that they could have been in the back of the van arguing. And that's why the van door closed, because they know that van lifers like to stop and say hello to each other. They may have seen this van approaching and they were like, we don't want to be interrupted right now. We're in the middle of an argument. And then maybe this argument went on for an hour, two hours. I'm sure you've been there. You know, when you have the same argument

over and over again, it seems to get longer each time, even though you're arguing about the same thing. And eventually he may have snapped. Now I'm still on the fence as to whether this was premeditated or not. Oh yeah. I just don't.

I can't tell you because I can't get into this. This guy's head. Right. I almost wonder I'm going to lean towards saying it wasn't that he sort of snapped and lashed out. But knowing, you know, Brian and knowing sort of how manipulative he was and how much of a control freak he was, he could have had this kind of in his mind as a plan B. Not like something I'm going to do, but as a last resort, I might have to kill this girl. Yeah.

I'm with you. I do think it was a crime of passion. I do, based on their relationship leading up to it and how there were hints of it getting there. There was the start of violence that was physical in nature. And this is what you usually see in domestic violence relationships where it starts off where he's just throwing something at the wall. They always say, right, if he's willing to throw something at you, he's willing to hit you. And so it's one of those things where it might've started with just words and then escalated to maybe the damage of property and then escalated to a slap or a scratch or a choke. And so it's one of those things where it might have started with just words and then escalated to maybe the damage of property and then escalated to a slap or a scratch or a choke.

And then it got to this point. So I do lean towards crime of passion also for the sense of if this was premeditated, it wasn't well thought out. Because from the start, he starts making really, really rookie mistakes, to put it lightly, as far as the text message and what he's saying, referring to the wrong place. There was no plan to kind of set this up where he could have made it look like we were out hiking and there was a tragic accident. But he seems to be self-aware of that, right? Because when he gets back to Florida, he doesn't want to talk to anybody. So he probably knows. He knows he's screwed. He knows he doesn't have his ducks in a row, so why is he going to talk to anybody? And that's why I think, yeah, I think you're right. I think it definitely is a crime of passion.

And I do agree with you, by the way, back to what you were saying earlier. You know, if he had strangled her in the back of the van and, you know, it does seem like that van was shut abruptly because they heard a vehicle coming. I don't think if you had a dead woman in the back of your van, you would have the door open at any point. No, no. So I don't think it's like, oh, somebody's coming. I got to shut the van before they see what just happened in here. I mean, I guess it's possible, but man, what are the chances? I think it's more likely to what you're saying, where they're arguing in the back of the van.

They don't want to be disturbed. They shut the van to appear that, you know, so it appears that no one's there. And so I think you're right. I think you're right. But that's why I think to go, you know, to kind of round this out, we were asking the question why this case is so polarizing and why so many people are enamored by it. Things like that, like that YouTube video where they basically had no idea what happened. And then this, this family comes along with a video probably showing Brian and Gabby, if she was still alive within hours of her death. I mean, that's crazy. That's this whole case.

That's this whole case. Not only were they so present on social media, basically chronicling every step of their journey, but then you've got the Moab, Utah stop. And we can see these two people interacting as a couple, interacting with other people, being their own individuals. And then we see this footage from these YouTubers, the red, white, and Bethune. And it's like being in a dark room with a flashlight. And everywhere you shine the flashlight, you see one little piece, but you need to know what else is happening. Because we feel

like we've already had a glimpse inside of their lives and what they were about and what they were doing. And so we want to obviously know from start to finish what happened. What happened to Gabby? And it's important that people understand we probably never will know exactly what happened, but it's going to be frustrating for everybody who's been so invested in this case regardless. I'm fairly new to the true crime community, but I do think that is a main premise of everyone that's involved in this and that's fascinated by, which is the unknown. We're human beings, we want answers. And we work hard, we research, we investigate to try to get those answers for not only the families, but for ourselves. And with cases like this, because there are a lot of them, in some situations,

the victim and the actual offender take those answers to their graves. It's a hard pill to swallow. And I don't think anybody's ever going to accept it. But it's a reality. It's an unfortunate reality, but it is a reality. I can't imagine being Gabby's parents, Nicole and Joe, and never knowing the answers. That would be, I mean, obviously for us, the everyday person who's been following and invested in this case, it's tough. But for them, it's got to be an impossible mountain to climb. Agreed. No, it's a tough one. But I do think there's something, again, we can take out of this. We're learning from it. It goes back to the first episode. We talked about you were brave enough to share your story. And we had a lot of comments about that as well and how that helps some people who listen and watch our podcast. So I think that was good. And I do think that is the

theme of this whole thing. This case, I don't want to say it's solved, but as far as the case is concerned, Gabby is deceased. Brian's deceased. We may get something from his notebook, but based on how this investigation has been going, I don't know if we're ever going to have the whole picture, but there is a story to be told here because there are women and men for that matter in lesser amounts, but there are people right now that are in situations similar to this. And if you're in it or you know somebody who's in it, understand that although it might just be a slap or an argument or the throwing of an item, this started off that way too. And here we are talking about it. So if you take anything from this,

take the signs that we're kind of laying out here that we're seeing now in hindsight with Gabby's situation and apply them to your own and try to get that person or yourself out of the situation before it's too late. Yeah. Yeah. And like Derek said, we won't ever know the whole story. But I have noticed since Brian's death or the realization of Brian's death, more people have been talking, and I do think we're going to hear from the police departments involved. Little by little, more information, stuff about cell phone records, things like that. It will help us to flesh out the timeline. But as we know, law enforcement, even the FBI, does know everything that has to do with this case at this point. So it's really interesting to know what's in Brian's notebook, if it is salvageable.

But I think we're on our own on this case. We sort of have to figure out what we can figure out and leave the rest as a mystery, which is fine, even though it's hard. Yeah. Hopefully we have more about the notebook before we finish the series. Yeah, probably by the time we're finished with the series, more will be out. We'll see. Yep.

Well, we will talk to you guys next week. Until then uh keep watching us on youtube remember that our audio episodes come out every friday and then our youtube episodes come out on our channel crime weekly every wednesday so the following wednesday the youtube episode will be out you can follow us on instagram and twitter crime weekly pod you can also go to our website crime weekly podcast.com where you can leave us a speak pipe so we can actually hear your voice and hear what you have to say. You might hear yourself in an episode sometime. You can also go to our merch store through our website, which is crimewweeklypodcast.com slash shop. We will see you guys next week. Until then,

have a great week and goodbye. Later. Thank you.