Crime Weekly - S2 Ep60: Caylee Anthony: Worst Fears Confirmed (Part 6)

Episode Date: January 14, 2022

Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Agatha Christie once said that a mothers love for her child is like nothing else in the world. It knows no law, no pity, it dares all things and crushes down remorselessly all that stands in its path. Most parents feel that their main job is to protect their children from the terrors of the world, and they take this job very seriously, so when we hear of a child that seemingly was tossed to the side and forgotten, we have a very negative and visceral reaction. After all, children are the future, and they deserve a fighting chance. Two year old Caylee Marie Anthony had this chance stolen from her, she had her life stolen from her, and to this day we still don’t understand why. Caylee disappeared on June 16th, 2008, and it would take six months for the world to find out what had happened to her. Her skeletal remains were found inside a laundry bag, discarded in a wooded area. There was evidence that little Caylee’s mouth had been duct taped at the time of her death, and all eyes were on her young mother, Casey Anthony, who had failed to report the toddler missing for over a month, and during this time, Casey was seen at nightclubs and bars, having the time of her life.  Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

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Get an early start and plan now to invest in electric leaf blowers or grab a rake. Local retailers have resources in battery leaf blowers. Visit montgomerycountymd.gov slash leaf blowers for more information. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. All right. So today we are diving into part six of the Kaylee Anthony series. And there is some evidence in this episode that I'm excited to talk to you about, to get your take on it, the detective perspective. Is there anything you want to say to these lovely people before we dive in? No, I think we always say at the end, so I'll start at the beginning.

Appreciate all the love and support. If you're not already, we see a lot of unique viewers. Like, comment, subscribe on the video if you're watching on audio take two seconds to leave a rating and a comment we'd really appreciate it if you're listening on audio yeah there you go that too leave a rating if you're listening on audio and if you're listening on audio and you haven't been to our youtube channel yet go to youtube just type in crime weekly subscribe to us that way if you miss us on audio you'll see us on crime weekly the following wednesday on our youtube channel and uh some people even like to listen to the audio and then

when the video comes out they like to watch the video because it's a much different experience there's pictures maps things like that you can see you know me and derek going back and forth you can see my i guess infamous facial expressions which do, we do have a lot of visuals to support what we're talking about. Like a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about the cell towers. And if you're listening to me talk about it, you're probably, maybe you're following it, but the, the visuals, I saw a couple of comments where people like, okay, as soon as the, it came up, I got it. I seen the overlap. I seen how you triangulate a person's location in between those towers. So it definitely helps people. And, um, you know, speaking of visual, uh, shout out, I will give them a shout

out today. Squadcast. If you're noticing, there's probably no flickering today. I was going back and forth with them as of late last week. And apparently, apparently they fixed it. You guys will ultimately let us know from my testing. It does look like they fixed it. You guys will ultimately let us know. From my testing, it does look like they fixed it. And we're super pumped about it because you guys are spending sometimes two hours with us, maybe even more. We want it to be an enjoyable experience. If you're watching on YouTube, we put a lot of time and effort into this so that, as we explained last week, to have something out of our control affect that.

It was tough. But they fixed it fairly quickly. So give credit where credit's due. Hopefully it stays that way. Knock on wood. Yeah. If you did that in my house, my dogs would have just gone crazy. Like knocking on a desk, accidentally hitting your knee on the desk, the dogs start barking like we're getting robbed. Well, everybody who's watching this on their TV right now or listening to it on their speakers, their dogs are probably going crazy. I know. Look what you did.

Yeah. Appreciate it all. Thank you, Squadcast. Thank you, patrons. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Ready for the episode. All right. So when we left off last time, we kind of went through Casey Anthony's infamous tour of Universal Studios, and they get her back to the police station, right? And they shut her in a room and they're like, what the hell are we going to do with this girl? They're all out there talking and then they decide, let's arrest her.

We don't have evidence that she hurt her daughter. We don't have evidence that she was responsible for her daughter Kaylee's disappearance, but we do have evidence of neglect. So let's kind of use that to hold her here, make sure she doesn't run away, make sure she doesn't hurt herself and make sure that we have her here in case we do have that evidence or encounter that evidence

that allows us to upgrade her charges, right? And they do that a lot, I think, police sometimes. They'll arrest you on a lesser charge because they don't have the evidence yet to get you for the charge they really want to get you for. And they're just kind of hoping that while you're sitting in prison or jail, they'll come across that evidence where they can now bring the real charges against you. Yeah. Something to hold you. It obviously has to be a supported charge. You know what I mean? Nothing nefarious there, but yeah. Nothing trumped up, right? Yeah. Yeah. They have something where it's a legitimate thing where it's like, hey, listen, we're trying to just hold them for another 24 hours. If they get arrested

and it's something where they need to be arraigned, it may give them time overnight to gather whatever statements or process whatever evidence to bring additional charges before that arraignment the next day. Yeah. And I think that having Casey in jail also made the police feel better that maybe she's not going to go home and start getting rid of evidence. You know, they had already gotten her laptop and figured out it had been wiped. And now they have her in prison.

So now she can't do that. And they are recording her calls, right, and her visits with people. So they'll know if she instructs somebody to do something like that. So it's also a preservation of whatever evidence out there does exist. It's a good point. They might have been getting additional search warrants, things like that. And those do take time, you know, in some situations. So you're right. Not having her out there, being able to kind of cover up her tracks before they're able to get those search warrants could definitely be an

aspect to it. All right. So the thing that finally needed to happen, it had happened. Casey Anthony was behind bars and there were dozens of people out looking for her young daughter, who by this time had been missing for over a month. Casey was arrested on July 16, 2008, around 4.30 in the afternoon. She was charged with child neglect and obstructing a criminal investigation. On July 17, Florida attorney Jose Baez received a message from his secretary that a potential client wanted to meet with him at the Orange County Jail. Let's take a minute and talk about who Jose Baez is. He grew up in the Bronx, New York, where he and his three sisters were raised by a single mother.

I think his father kind of walked out on the family when he was about four, so he didn't really grow up with a father. And then the family moved to Florida, where Baez attended the Homestead School before dropping out in the ninth grade and enlisting in the Navy. So Jose Baez ended up getting his GED and attending community college before transferring to to be a very zealous young attorney who, quote, was receptive to feedback about how to become a better trial lawyer, end quote. Jose Baez was known to be aggressive and always ready for a fight. At that time, many public defenders would default to cutting deals, but Baez wanted to be in the courtroom. He worked on 34 cases as a legal intern, and friends said that he would often cut out of classes early during the O.J. Simpson trial because he was completely taken in by the charismatic and cunning attorneys like Johnny Cochran and Robert Shapiro. But even though Baez completed law school in 1997,

he was not accepted into the Florida Bar until 2005. So what had happened is Jose Baez met a girl in a Miami club, and he got her pregnant when he was just 17. So he married her, but they got divorced when he was 23. And when Baez applied to the Florida Bar, he found out his ex-wife had notified them that he had not been paying child support to her and his teenage daughter, and so he was denied entry. The board also noted that Jose Baez had attended a diversion program to avoid a criminal charge of writing a bad check, something that he had failed to disclose when he'd initially applied, but he also failed to disclose the fact that he had an to disclose when he'd initially applied, but he also failed to

disclose the fact that he had an assault charge on his record. The Florida Supreme Court later backed this decision on appeal, and they stated that Baez had shown a total lack of respect for the rights of others and a total lack of respect for the legal system. He was also strapped at this time with over $100,000 in student loans, so finding a way to bring in some money was essential. Baez began working as an investigator. He was also associated with two bikini selling companies, Bon Bon Bikinis and BrazilianBikinis.com, and he worked for Lexis Nexus. So Lexis Nexus is a legal website software thing where if you're a lawyer or a paralegal or something, you can search through different court cases and get all the details and things. So he worked for them. LexisNexis is a go-to for me. Use it every day almost. It's called Accurant. It's something that law enforcement uses every single day. So if you have the proper credentials and you're in a position of authority, you can search individuals for their bank records, for their social security numbers, previous addresses, previous workplaces that they might be associated with, relatives, neighbors.

It's actually – I've talked to you about this off camera. Because I'm jealous of your LexisNexis abilities. Yeah, talking about what type of access you have to individuals. And it has to be in a legal capacity. It has to be for investigative purposes. It's monitored by multiple agencies to make sure it's not being abused. I know there are even, not to get off the beaten path, there are times where someone who has access to LexisNexis uses it to find like the address

of like a celebrity or something. I've heard stories where they've literally searched this person and within hours, like LexisNexis is reaching out to them and wanting to come to a physical visit to see like their setup and all that stuff and make sure, you know, cause they'll take away your privileges like that. So very powerful tool. And like you said, you're right. Lawyers, everyone has access to this to a certain degrees.

But at the law enforcement level, the the abilities to search people and identify someone or find out their background. Really powerful tool. Yeah, I'm jealous. I wish I had it. I mean, you can pay for it like as a, just a civilian, but you're not, you're not getting access to the things that I would like to have access to for the purposes of research and things like that. You could see how you would be great with it, but you could definitely see how someone would abuse the

power. A hundred percent. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it's definitely a process. They, they check on your, your ability to encrypt things and how to store personal data in your home office or at your business so that, God forbid, you're hacked or anything, the people that you're looking for legitimately, their data, their personal information isn't exposed. Damn. It kind of makes me uncomfortable that Jose Baez worked for them. I wonder what he... I didn't know that. It was interesting that you said it because as soon as I saw the name and I heard it, I'm like, oh, man, that's a company that's a good company. Yeah. My husband went to law school and he used to use it in school for,

you know, they would have to do mock trials and things. Oh, yeah. I want it so bad. So we got to get you a PI license. I know. Or, you know, I'll just go and become a lawyer and not practice law just for LexisNexis. I'll tell you what, PI license, three years of law school, you choose whatever you want. Maybe a little easier. So Baez was finally admitted to the Florida board in 2005. And then he opened a small private practice in Kissimmee, Florida out of a strip mall. And he worked as a defense attorney. And he began to take on cases that many considered

to be unwinnable. I mean, to be fair and honest, he didn't win a lot of them. For instance, he defended a man named Milton Diaz, who had murdered his girlfriend's two-year-old daughter. During the trial, Jose Baez made a strange choice when he told the Orlando Sentinel that he was not going to defend Diaz. He was going to prosecute Diaz's girlfriend, the child's mother, whom Baez claimed had treated her daughter like an animal. But during the trial, jurors saw Diaz's police interrogation tape where Diaz had told the authorities that he'd never seen the woman mistreat her child. In fact, he said she was a good mother who spoiled the little girl. And then he was sentenced to 15 years for manslaughter. Diaz tried to appeal because he said he had bad counsel,

and that was denied, and he went to prison. So after representing Casey Anthony, Baez would go on to defend many unsavory clients like Aaron Hernandez on a double murder charge and Harvey Weinstein. I mean, there's no more that needs to be said about Harvey Weinstein. What a scumbag. When Casey Anthony was asked how she came to hire Jose Baez, she said, quote, it kind of happened at random in booking. I heard a couple of people talking about an attorney. His name came up and I said, if he's good, can you do me a favor and pass my name along? It was an inmate and there was three other people that confirmed it, end quote. In his book, Presumed Guilty, Jose Baez wrote about the first time he met Casey Anthony. He said, quote, I saw this tiny, attractive, hip-looking girl with short, dark hair and greenish eyes in her

early 20s. She was no more than five feet tall, weighed 105 pounds soaking wet, and looked totally out of place in jail. She wasn't your typical inmate. She was dressed in jail blues, but very well kept. Most of my clients, both male and female, are a little rougher around the edges, more streetwise. That was not Casey. In this business, you mostly run across people who have been through the system. They're much more hardened. I could see Casey was a first timer, end quote. I mean, everyone's a first timer at one point, right? So at one point, yeah. Just give her some time. I'm sure she'll harden right up. But anyways, Jose Baez said that he was surprised that a judge had determined that Casey

should be held without bond at that point because he felt that they didn't have enough evidence to do that, to hold her there. But, you. But we've already gone over the reasons they probably decided to do that. And she hadn't even had her bond hearing yet. So just because I wasn't very familiar with Jose Baez until Casey Anthony, and I wasn't sure if he was maybe like a high profile attorney who knew this case was going to be high profile. So he wanted to latch onto it. Or from what it sounds like from what you just laid out, it seems as if cases like Aaron Hernandez and Harvey Weinstein and some of the other cases that you've heard him being associated with, what kind of put him on the map was the acquittal of Casey Anthony. And I hate to say this, but that's why this case is so fascinating for a lot of

people because to the normal person watching this trial and hearing the facts and circumstances of this case, most people are like, oh, she's guilty. And yet you and I are sitting here and she's a free woman and will never be charged for the murder of Kaylee Anthony. And so I think there are individuals who may have committed crimes who are drawn to that because they're like, hey, if he can get her off, he can surely get me off. So it does seem like, although there was a lot of ups and downs with this trial, Baez really benefited from this acquittal monetarily since then. A hundred percent he did. He was virtually unknown. Like I said, he worked out of a strip mall at that time. He was Hispanic, obviously, or he is Hispanic. He was virtually unknown. Like I said, he worked out of a strip mall at that time. You know, he was Hispanic, obviously, or he is Hispanic. He's not gone. He's still here.

He's Hispanic. He is Hispanic. His parents are from Puerto Rico. You know, so many of his clients, most of his clients at that time were also Hispanic. He kind of stayed in his community. And then he steps outside with Casey because he knew it was going to be a big case. That's why he took it. Right. And he said when he got there, there was already a public defender there who had been called in for Casey. And Jose Baez was like, well, I'm meeting with her. And the public defender was like, all right, I just want to make sure she didn't say anything without a lawyer present. I'm going to take off now. But the way Casey came to hire Jose Baez,

I've always found it to be a little sketchy. I think there's something there that we're not hearing, something there we don't know about, but I can't prove it, so it doesn't matter. But just for like what, some prisoners were like, you should hire Jose Baez. And she was like, yeah, let me call him. I mean, the dude was expensive still. I think there was a $5,000 retainer and she didn't have two cents to rub together. Who paid the retainer? She paid the retainer allegedly. Okay. All right. Yeah. And I've heard the rumors too. I mean, we don't have to beat around it. There's been, and you're probably going to get into it tonight, I'm assuming. Are you or not? Because it's more rumors. I'm not going to get into it tonight.

It's going to be sort of a side note. But yeah, there was an investigator who was working for Jose Baez on Casey's behalf who said that he saw, well, I guess Jose Baez had gotten Casey out of a speaking engagement she didn't want to be a part of. And he heard Jose Baez hang up the phone and then tell Casey basically, like, I got you out of this. Like, now you have to give me a blowjob. And, you know, she was like, haha, okay. And then one day, one time this guy comes in the office and Casey like runs out of Jose Baez's office like naked and the investigator said he talked to her and he was like listen you know like you don't have to have sex with him or be sexual with him to pay for for your money that you owe him like he's been selling pictures of you and Kaylee to like the media and he's making a lot of money off of

that and she was like oh okay it won't happen again. But once again, this is alleged. Yeah, it's all, of course. Yeah, and then this guy went on to write a book about Casey Anthony. So it could have been financially motivated. It could have been a money grab. He just made it up. I mean, although I would say

I wouldn't put it past Casey or Jose Baez. I think that they are a match made in heaven. Honestly, they should have gotten married and been together forever and then took each other off the market for other normal people, in my opinion. And I don't think that's a far fetch what you're saying. I don't think it's any Casey hate or whatever, although there's plenty of that to go around.

But I think based on what we've laid out over these last six parts. This is her currency. This is that's her currency. And she's used it in many occasions, some of which we know about, some we don't. Some are some failed attempts, like, you know, with the detectives and things like that, where if she had shown some interest in Jose, could he had maybe reciprocated? We don't know. It's all alleged, but I think it's I think that's enough there to, you know, for the

people out there who are like, yeah, they were having sex. That's why it went the way it did. You know, we brought it up. There's really not much to investigate. It's all it's all rumors and speculation. But I do remember, we will touch on it. Casey's parents said, we didn't hire him. And they didn't really want her to hire him because they would meet with her in jail. And at one point they were like, if you want to, even Lee Anthony, they were like, if you want to get a new lawyer, if you want to pick another horse,

just inform the court. Nobody's going to blame you for that. So they clearly felt a little weird about him as well, for whatever reason. Maybe maybe because they knew he was going to try to throw them under the bus later. Who knows? Yeah. Maybe they felt like the little bit of distance between him where he was. He didn't want to get close to them because he's like, I might have to use you guys. He's like, I can't be friends because I'm probably going to accuse you falsely of something later.

So might need you might need an out. Exactly. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Imagine a single cream that addresses all your skin care needs. Wrinkles, dark circles, age spots and more. Introducing Caviargon Skin Cream, the only argon, caviar, and retinol formula on the market. Packed with pure Moroccan argon oil, collagen-boosting caviar extract, and retinol, Caviargon deeply hydrates, firms, and rejuvenates without the irritation of traditional retinol. Trusted by women over 45, Caviargon delivers visible results in just weeks.

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calling around to see if there was news about her missing daughter, you know, now that the police, the experts were on the case. But in fact, that was not her main priority or a concern to her at all, in my opinion. She was trying to find someone who would give her Tony Lazaro's phone number, Tony Lazaro, her boyfriend. Now, the first call she made and the only call she made was to Cindy Anthony. But before she asked Cindy for Tony's number, Casey decided to rip into her. Now, Cindy had talked to some news reporters. And during one of these interviews, she had mentioned that she didn't know what her daughter Casey's involvement was in Kaylee's disappearance. Casey? Mom.

Hey, sweetie. I just saw your nice little cameo on TV. Which one? What do you mean, which one? Which one? I did four different ones, and I don't know. I haven't seen them all. I've only seen one or two so far.

You don't know what my involvement is and stuff? Casey. Mom. What? No. I don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You're not telling me where she's at. Because I don't f***ing know where she's at.

Are you kidding me? Casey, don't waste your call. No. Don't waste my call sitting in, oh, the jail. Whose fault is... Whose fault is sitting in the jail? You're blaming me that you're sitting in the jail? Blame yourself for telling lies.

You mean it's not your fault. What do you mean it's not your fault, sweetheart? If you'd have told them the truth and not lied about everything, they wouldn't... Do me a favor. Just tell me what Tony's number is. I don't want to talk to you right now. Forget it. Okay, so then Casey gets on the phone with Lee, who's also there.

And he kind of gives it to her a bit, right? And he's not really going easy on her. And then Lee passes the phone to Casey's friend, Christina Chester, who Casey feels will give her a better chance of getting Tony's number, I guess. But when Christina begins to get emotional about Kaylee, Casey gets very annoyed. And she says, you know, this was a waste. This was a waste to call you guys. Hi, I'm glad everybody's at my house. I'll have to call you later. I'll have to call somebody to get your number. Do me a favor, get my brother back because I need Tony's number. Okay, is there anything I can do for you?

I'm sitting in jail. There's nothing anybody can do right now. Well, I'm just trying to be... Oh, I know you are, honey. I absolutely know that you are, and I appreciate everything that you're trying to do, but I'd like to call Tony. He's not at my house, is he? No, it's just me and your parents and me. Okay. Well, can you do me a favor and get my brother back

or get the number from him, please? Um, does Tony have anything to do with Kaylee? No, nothing. Okay, so why do you want to talk to Tony? I... You probably don't want to tell me, do you? Huh?

You probably don't want to tell me, do you? What are you... I didn't hear what you said. I said, does Tony have anything to do with Kaylee? No, Tony has nothing to do with Kaylee. Oh, so why do you want to talk to him? You probably don't want to tell me. Because he's my boyfriend, and I want to actually try to sit and talk to him,

because I didn't get a chance to talk to him earlier, because I got arrested on a f***ing whim today, because they're blaming me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn't do. Well, I'm on nobody's, I'm on your side, you know that. Oh, honey, I know that. I just want to talk to Tony and get a little bit of... Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Kaylee. If anything happens with Kaylee, Casey, I'll die.

You understand? I'll die. If anything happens to that baby, Casey, I'll die. You understand? I'll die. If anything happens to that baby. Oh my god. Calling you guys? Waste. Huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn't be going on. Alright, so that was

her conversation with her friend Christina Chester and excuse my language, but Casey is a miserable bitch. Like her friend's so upset. She's like, if anything happens to Kaylee, I would die. Like that's how that's how Casey should be sounding. That's what Casey should be saying. And Casey's response is to be just annoyed by that.

Like, oh, my God, I should never have called you on a waste. How awful. Just the whole, again, you're in jail and you're more concerned about communicating with her. She sounds like a high school girl. A freaking spoiled child. Absolute kid. And even her condescending tone the whole time. Oh, honey, honey, I know.

Honey, I know. But when Christina got upset, which was super genuine. Yeah. Instead of also getting upset, which I would do. Like when anyone talks about something that I'm also feeling, you know, if somebody starts to cry, you start to cry. Not Casey. She got annoyed by it. Yeah.

Oh dude, I don't want to hear you cry. I can't do this anymore. I can't do this right now. I don't want to talk about Kaylee. Like, come on, man.

Yeah. Unbelievable to hear that. And this is the same day she's arrested. This is the same day as the universal studios thing. Like the same day she's arrested and she just has no concern for Kaylee at all. I'm so blown. I'm so blown away by that. I mean,

for this, there's so many different things that are running through my head as far as like her lack of emotion, what her concern is, which is Tony, not Kaylee, not the fact that she's basically being arrested for child neglect. None of that. It's all like, I just want to talk to Tony and let's talk, you know, be honest here. It's not like Tony's been her boyfriend for 20 years. No. I mean, this is a relatively new relationship and, be honest here. It's not like Tony's been her boyfriend for 20 years. No. I mean, this is a relatively new relationship and that's your concern. It's like she doesn't know how she sounds, you know, she doesn't.

She doesn't realize how bad she sounds. And does Casey honestly think that Tony Lazaro is just going to like stand by her side while she's going on trial for foring her two-year-old daughter? What does she think? Where does she think this relationship is going that she puts her daughter and her disappearance on the back burner because she's just got to talk to her freaking boyfriend so bad? No, that's the problem, right? Her concern is totally in an area where it shouldn't be. She's not calling them saying, hey, Christina, is there any updates on the media?

Are you hearing like- The police are in on it now. Did they tell you anything? Are they tracking down Zanny? Like, do they have any leads? Yes. I thought of something else that could help, like tell them nothing, nothing. It's like, I just need Tony's number. Her concern is about losing Tony because of the allegations against her. There's no mention, no question about, hey, I know what I'm seeing, but are you hearing anything as far as, you know, what they're currently doing in the investigation? And you can hear it in Christina's voice, too.

They know without knowing it, and they know it because they know Casey. They know who she is. They can tell by her mannerisms. Lee, Cindy, they know that she's lying. I don't know, man. I don't know. They keep defending her. I'm telling you, Cindy and George, although they didn't make the best parental decisions,

my opinion is a lot of it was things they saw and ignored or were blinded by their love for her. And there was always something that was probably off and they said, this girl just doesn't get it. And when they're asking her questions about Kaylee, they're probably seeing similar mannerisms and responses that they saw back when she was younger and lied about certain things that they caught her on. So I think deep down, although they may be hoping for a different outcome, I think deep down, I don't think they believe that she killed Kaylee, but they know she's not telling the truth. They know there's more to the story, which is why Christine is trying to get through to her because Cindy's probably saying she's not going to talk to me. They don't know what happened, but they know

there's more to the story that Casey's not sharing. And that's why you hear Christina throwing stuff at the wall and trying to see what sticks. Is Tony involved? Is there more about Tony? You can tell me. And then even when Casey tries to get off of it, Christina goes back to it. Listen, Casey, you can tell me, you can tell me what happened to Kaylee. They, they know deep down there's, there's something that Casey's not telling him at this point. It might be a tough pill to swallow. They're probably hoping that it's not the worst case scenario. And you can tell they still have hope. That's why Christine is crying like that. Um, and so I think deep down, they know Kaylee's in trouble.

Well, Cindy and George Anthony have a weird way of showing that, but let's continue. While Casey was busy being the person who cared the least about where her daughter was, the police were still trying to locate Zineda Fernandez Gonzalez,

the nanny that Casey had claimed was in possession of Kaylee. So while investigating at the Sawgrass Apartments, that was where Casey claimed she had dropped Kaylee off, Detective Yuri Malek had been told that no one by that name had ever lived there, but someone with that name had looked at an apartment there the previous April. So Yuri Malek thought it was worth following up on, and he called this woman who ended up living about 30 minutes away from Orlando in Kissimmee, Florida. This Zenaida was 42 years old with six children, so she didn't really fit the description of Kaylee's nanny who was childless and in her 20s, but detectives paid her a visit at her house anyways. She was shown pictures of Kaylee

and Casey, but she said she had never met them in her life. This Zenaida's picture was also included in a lineup of pictures that would be shown to Casey in jail, and Casey couldn't identify her daughter's nanny in that selection of photos. Now, as far as we can tell, the police did look into this woman pretty deeply. She had nothing to do with what had happened to little Kaylee. She had previously been in trouble with the law for some credit card fraud and for selling Four Loko to minors. Remember Four Loko? It was like an energy drink slash alcoholic drink that they had like outlaw because it

was making people go crazy, making people go loco. But besides that, you know, there was no evidence that this Zineda had ever met anyone in the Anthony family. And she would later file a defamation lawsuit against Casey Anthony, claiming that her name will now and forever be tied to what happened to poor Kaylee, which I mean, it is right. Like, I do see her point there. Yeah. And I don't know. I know there are people out there that do believe maybe there's some truth to this, but I think for all of you who believe, you know, Casey's telling the truth. I, you know, there is Zaneta. This is the woman. She just pretend as Stephanie just said, don't overlook it. Casey was shown a photo pack where there was six or

eight people. She was shown a lineup that contained this specific Zanetta and Casey couldn't identify her. She didn't point her out as Zanny the Nanny. So don't take our word for it. Don't take anybody else's word out there for it. Take Casey's word for it, because if this was in fact Zanny the Nanny, it would have taken her 0.2 seconds to say, yeah, that's her right there. How this name came up, it was probably through the investigator's due diligence, maybe a little bit of luck. Maybe Casey had seen this name on something before and that, who knows? But clearly there is no connection to this woman, not because I'm coming to that conclusion. Again, it's Casey telling us that this Zanita, the nanny that we're looking for

is not the Zanita Gonzalez. It's not her. Yeah. And Casey had said that Zanata was in her 20s. And when Jose Baez had initially asked Casey about Zanata, he said, you know, tell me about her. What does she look like? And Casey said, oh, she's a perfect 10. And Jose Baez was like, well, you know, usually women who are perfect 10s stand out. You know, people notice them. So like, are you sure? And I have a hard time believing that a woman who had kidnapped and murdered a two year old child would then file a civil lawsuit against Casey Anthony because now you're exposing yourself more like during a civil lawsuit, you're going to have to prove that this isn't you. So it's going to go deeper and there's going to be more, you know, looking into it. If this Zanata had anything to do with what happened to Kaylee, she would have caught and run.

She wouldn't be like filing lawsuits, you know, putting herself in court and under a microscope. Yeah. And for the purpose of what we're talking about here, Casey was diming Zanata out. She was saying Zanita Nanny has my kid. And yet she did not point her out in that photo lineup, which some might say, oh, she was nervous. She had already, she already exposed her. She already snitched on her, however you want to put it. So why wouldn't she just say, yeah, that's her right there. Did you guys find her yet? That's her. Right. She didn't know that was her because there is

no Xanny the nanny. I mean, we're at the point in the series now where we can start coming to some conclusions. And just to go a little bit ahead, this is why at trial, they changed the narrative. They changed the reasonable doubt aspect of it because Jose Baez was reading and seeing exactly what you guys are hearing and seeing and realize, just like you're probably realizing, this is not a viable option. This is not going to work for any reasonable person on a jury for everything that we're laying out right now. So obviously keep that in mind as we go forward, because it doesn't take a genius to figure out very quickly that Casey's full of shit. And that's why I don't

blame Zany at all as an ADA at all for filing a lawsuit. Because although there was nothing to connect her, there are people out there, I've seen it as I'm researching this as we're talking about it, who do believe she is involved somehow, which is crazy to me. It's crazy. She's going to file a civil lawsuit against you for calling her Zanny, man. All right. I mean, sorry. My bad. Sorry, ma'am. Sorry. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. and retinol formula on the market. Packed with pure Moroccan argan oil, collagen-boosting caviar extract, and retinol, Caviargon deeply hydrates, firms, and rejuvenates

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All right, so as all of this is happening, a forensic investigation was also underway. Crime scene investigator Gerardo Bloise had received Casey's Pontiac Sunfire, along with a black plastic bag of items that Cindy Anthony had removed from the vehicle. The garbage bag that had been in Casey's trunk and had been thrown into the dumpster at Johnson's Wreckers Lot had also been retrieved and turned over to Bloise. So we did have some comments about that in the last video. People wondering, did the police ever retrieve that bag,

that garbage bag that was thrown out? Yes, they did. And they looked through it and they had it forensically tested. So let's start with the car, which had been sealed until it had arrived at the forensics garage and opened by CSI. Bloise would later testify that when he opened the passenger side door, he was hit with a smell that he described as the odor of decomposition. On the front passenger seat, he found a brown belt, sunglasses, and a black case containing CDs. Kaylee's car seat was in the right rear passenger seat, and next to it were two pairs of women's shoes, both in the color black. Moving on to the trunk, where Bloise found the smell was much worse, even though someone had apparently placed a dryer sheet in the trunk, possibly in an effort to mask the smell. It was also clear that the trunk had been vacuumed recently, but Bloise found some dirt,

some sort of dirt residue throughout the fabric, and there was a stain on the right side of the trunk. So Bloise cut two pieces from the D-shaped particle board spare tire cover. He also collected a hair from that area, as well as from the middle area of the trunk liner and four hairs from the left side of the trunk area, as well as another that was found on the directional light wire of the Pontiac. Once that was done and the evidence had been collected and sealed, Detective Jason Forgy and his cadaver dog, Jiras, were brought in. Jiras circled the car once before sniffing aggressively at it and trying to get into it. When the door to the car was opened, Jairus jumped in and then tried to get into the trunk from the back seat. Jairus then jumped out of the car, circled it

once more, and then alerted on the trunk again. The trunk was opened and Jairus attempted to jump inside of the trunk. Next, the CSI team and Jarris went to the Anthony home on Hope Spring Drive. George Anthony had told the police that he had located some fresh earth covering a newly dug hole that was about 12 inches long and 5 inches deep near the shed. Jarris was not evidently interested in this hole, but he did alert near Kaylee's playhouse. Officials decided to double check Jairus' work by bringing in another cadaver dog from a neighboring county, and this dog also alerted to the playhouse and playground, the same places that Jairus had been interested in, as well as in an area near the patio. Law enforcement checked all of those areas but found no evidence of human remains.

Now, in the black bag of items that had been found in Casey's car, there was a doll, Kaylee's favorite doll, there was a backpack, a child's toothbrush, some papers, and a dinner knife. There had also been a blue plastic crate and plastic clothes hangers in the car. The white garbage bag that had been retrieved from the tow yard held a tin of Copenhagen chewing tobacco, an empty bottle of Arm & Hammer liquid detergent, aluminum foil, part of a broken plastic hanger, a ton of papers, documents, empty soda cans and beer cans, one hairpin, three plastic tie wraps, an empty Oscar Mayer plastic container, several dryer sheets,

empty containers of Crystal Light, a cut-up pizza box filled with maggots, a receipt from Fusion Ultra Lounge, a document from Full Sail University, remember that's where Anthony Lazaro attended college, and a Crystal Light plastic bottle containing brown liquid, that was not Crystal Light, and a cardboard valvita container. The hair and the carpet samples from the Pontiac were sent to the FBI lab in Quantico for testing, along with DNA samples from Casey, Kaylee, Cindy, George, and Lee Anthony. First impression, based on the layout of what you're telling about what was in the garbage bag, what I was looking for was to see if maybe there was going to be some type of food in there, some rotting food that would possibly

give off the same type of smell you would have with a decomposing body. There's nothing. So that can't be used as the reason why the car smelt the way it smelt. As far as the dogs, I hit on this before with Lacey Peterson. It's not a guarantee. I like the fact that they brought in two different dogs to kind of affirm what the first dog had come up with. So that's good because, again, there is a margin of error with dogs, how they're feeling that day, how well they're trained, their accuracy, all that good stuff. But this is things that are very well known throughout the true crime community as far as the cadaver dogs hitting on certain areas of the vehicle that would be suggestive that Kaylee at some point was placed into that trunk and transported to the location where she was ultimately found. And as far as we know, no one else had possession of that Pontiac Sunfire other than Casey. I will say one thing that just kind of caught my attention is the chewing tobacco. I would like to know, and you're nodding your head, so maybe you already have an answer to this, but I would like to know who the chewing tobacco belonged to because I don't know if we're going

to find that. Casey was a tobacco chewer. I don't think, she doesn't come off as one, but that would be something I'd want to look into that may be relevant, may not be. But as you're doing your due diligence, it would be something I would want to investigate. I think the chewing tobacco ended up being Tony's or like one of his friends. She did not chew tobacco. Right. And it could be as simple as that. There may be nothing to it, but you wouldn't be doing your job if there was something in there that would be, you know, you might be able to get a DNA profile off of it or something.

But again, there's nothing that suggests that garbage bag is tied to what happened to Kaylee other than the fact that it's in the trunk. And so I stand behind what I said when you initially brought it up as far as the trash being something to try to explain the smell that everyone was pointing out to Casey? Well, there actually were some paper towels found in that garbage bag that do have some evidence on them. And we're going to talk about that in a little bit. OK, good. So on July 22nd, Casey appeared in court next to her attorney for her bond hearing.

Yuri Malik and his team told Judge Stan Strickland all about Casey's lies and the findings of the canines, Cindy, George, and Lee also appeared in front of the judge, telling him what a good mother Casey had been to Kaylee, and that they would be more than happy to post bond for her if she was financially unable to do so. In a stunningly stupid show of solidarity, Cindy Anthony said, I know Casey as a person. I know what she is as a mother. I know there's only one or two reasons why Casey would be withholding something about Kaylee. And I believe it's something someone is holding over her and threatening her in some way, end quote. Now, this is all available on YouTube. So you can see

Cindy, George and Lee testifying at Casey's bond hearing and what they say. And they're all basically raving about her. She's great. She's a great mother. We don't think she had anything to do with this, et cetera, et cetera. And I do have to admit, because I'm not like a cold person. I'm not an empty hearted person. I felt pretty bad for Cindy when watching her on the stand. She's clearly uncomfortable. She's clearly distraught. She's crying uncontrollably. She looks like she's been crying nonstop for days. And overall, she's obviously just having a very hard time with the situation. So I do have compassion for her there. I do not have compassion with her for telling the judge that Casey was a great mother

when she'd been going around town telling everyone and their mother that Casey was an unfit parent. But here we are. It's just like she picks the narrative that fits when she's mad at Casey and she's trying to get her attention on MySpace. And, you know, she's talking to her mom and her therapist about taking custody of Kaylee because Casey's such a bad mother. That was great for her then. But now that she, for some reason, wants to get Casey out of jail, Casey's the best mother ever. And she knows her as a person and she knows her as a mother and she knows that she, for some reason, wants to get Casey out of jail, Casey's the best mother ever. And she knows her as a person and she knows her as a mother. And she knows that she would never be doing this unless Kaylee was in danger.

I have a question for you. So now seeing what you're saying here, as far as what Cindy was kind of saying without saying it, and also going back to the clip that we played earlier, my impression, and I don't know what yours was and everyone watching out there listening out there. It sounds to me like Cindy and George knew Casey was driven by affection from men. And she probably had times in the past where she would choose her boyfriends over her family and things like that. And it sounds to me, at least just from hearing the recording from Christina and Cindy and the questions they were asking, and also the timeline that maybe they know about at this point that, you know, shortly after Kaylee's disappearance, Casey was seen on camera.

I don't know if they know that at this point was seen on camera with Tony at Blockbuster without Kaylee, that they may be thinking Tony hurt Kaylee and Casey's covering for him. It's that's what it sounds like to me. And that's just like surface level. But you heard Christina say it right out of her own mouth. Did Tony do something to Kaylee? They're already thinking it.

So if she's having that conversation with Casey, Christina probably already had that conversation with Cindy and George. Oh, for sure. Cindy and George both asked Casey at different points. Like, you know, I think Cindy asked Casey, like, did Kaylee ever spend the night at Tony's? And Casey was like, no. You know, Casey keeps saying he's got nothing to do with this. He's got nothing to do with this. And it's one of those things like, you know, I think she protests too much where they may have been thinking, yeah, like, you you're right. Like maybe something happened. Maybe it was an accident.

Maybe Tony accidentally hurt Kaylee. And Casey right now is thinking, well, my daughter's gone. I have my boyfriend. I've got to protect the one I still have. And even that when she's in jail, the first day she's arrested, who's she trying to call? Tony. Got to call Tony. She called him when the police were there at her house.

And she remember she was texting him like, oh, guess who's going to go to prison forever for this? They're probably thinking because they're trying to figure it out. Why is she so concerned about talk? What do they know? What do they what do they have on each other that they're not talking? And it all goes back to what we were saying earlier in this whole series. This is in line with the way that Cindy and George operate and view their daughter. It's never her.

It's always an influence. It's always someone else. They've made excuses for this girl her entire life. And maybe some of them were vocalized publicly and maybe some of them were just internalized through themselves as far as how they justified always having her back all the way back to when she was lying about graduating high school. They've always found a justification for them personally to explain why they're doing the things they do. And here we are,

all signs are pointing to one specific person, and yet they're looking for an out. They're looking for a justification as to why Casey is not responsible. The only reason she would do this is if she was being threatened, right? doing this to protect it's like it's it's nonsense it really is nonsense right it's annoying it's like it's it's it's almost to the point where it's like i'm just sick of these people at this point like i can't trust anything they say and no judge should listen to anything they say either and it could be a thing where they're just so used to talking shit about each other amongst themselves but then putting like a united front out to the world because they don't want the outside world

to think that there's anything wrong. You know, and that's why they lied about Casey graduating and stuff like that. You know, probably behind the scenes, they were like, this is messed up, man. We got to lie for you now. We got to like, people are sending gifts and money. Like, what are we going to do?

But maybe they're so used to sort of showing a united front. Like I can talk shit about my family, but no one else can. But still, I don't know why they would want her out of jail so bad. You know, like she's better off there. It's par for the course,

you know, and multiple, you can say something or feel a certain way about individuals and all of it can be true. You can say in one breath, I don't think George and Cindy were involved in any way with the, what happened to Kaylee, but I also do believe that there is an underlying theme here of enabling Casey throughout her life to act the way with the, what happened to Kaylee. But I also do believe that there is an

underlying theme here of enabling Casey throughout her life to act the way she did that kind of evolved into this. I'm not saying the death of Kaylee, whether it was accidental or intentional, but the lengths that Casey went to afterwards to try to cover up whatever happened. And the fact that she would believe detectives are going to buy this story without validating what she's saying. That's all based on her upbringing. That's all based on what she's been able to get away with her entire life. And there's no way to kind of skate around it. Cindy and George are directly responsible for that. They were in charge of raising her. So you can say in one breath, you don't think they were responsible for what happened to Kaylee,

but you can also say they're really shitty parents. And they're not someone you want to look up to as far as your own parenting skills and how you raise your own kids because they're definitely missing the mark on multiple levels. So, you know, do I think they're genuinely concerned about what happened to Kaylee? Absolutely. But I think that the fact that they're still blinded, even at this point, when they're being smacked in the face with facts is pretty embarrassing. That's what I'm saying. Like, if you're looking for a wake up call, here it is. And if this still doesn't like get you to see the truth, nothing will. It's over. Nothing will ever change that

behavior, that pattern, that cycle that they have become so accustomed to, I think. I'm starting to see the frustration that you've had since episode one and that a lot of our viewers and listeners have too, because I didn't know the case that well. And so I'm getting emotionally involved now and I'm frustrated hearing it because it's like, okay, I've given you the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things and you've pushed back on it, right? You've been kind of like, Derek, you know what I mean? And I'm like, oh, you know, we got to, now it's starting to get ridiculous. Yeah. It really, now it's starting to get ridiculous all the way down to the phone calls we just played a little while ago. It's like, come on, what else do you really need here?

Because once again, who's Kaylee's advocate now? You know, they're all there fighting for Casey, crying in court, saying all these nice things, offering to put money up to get her out of the place she belongs. Who's fighting for Kaylee? No one. And if Kaylee's really who you care about, you should want Casey there because if you believe deep down she knows what happened, getting her out ain't going to help you find Kaylee. No, that's what I'm saying.

There's never been any consequences. And here she is facing a real life consequence for the first time probably in her entire life. And they're trying to get her out of that. It's disgusting. I'm with you. So Judge Strickland, he ended up setting Bond at half a million dollars with the conditions that Casey would have to wear an ankle monitor, surrender her passport and be evaluated by

two psychiatrists in order to determine her competency to stand trial. And we're going to discuss the findings of those mental health professionals in a little bit. And it turns out that no one in the Anthony family had that kind of money. I think it was $50,000 they'd have to put up. So they couldn't get her out of the Orange County Jail and she remained there for the time being. But while the Anthonys, who were not behind bars,

tried to make heads or tails of what was happening, they did so with a 24-7 media circus outside their front door. Everyone was talking about this case, not just in Florida, not just in the United States, but all over the world. And with Internet and social media entering its heyday, you could not find a person who did not know the name Casey Anthony. The media coverage was nonstop, especially on HLN, where our favorite sassy and scandal-hungry lawyer turned media darling Nancy Grace spent hours, hours yelling into the camera, demanding justice for Kaylee and demanding consequences for her mother, Casey, who Grace began referring to as Tot Mom.

And that nickname, as we all know, stuck. Still what people call Casey Anthony. So pictures of Casey dancing in a tight blue dress were flashed across the screen of every news network with the somber, outraged voice of the news anchors making sure that we, the public, knew these photos had been taken after Casey's daughter had vanished without a trace. Cindy Anthony earnestly told the reporters that she believed Kaylee was alive, and she claimed that she truly believed that whatever Casey was doing was for Kaylee's own good because she was afraid that something would happen to her child if she told the truth. George Anthony, on the other hand, was not as convinced, and he requested to meet with the detectives on the case on July 24th without his wife present,

and this conversation was recorded. During their talk, George Anthony told the detectives, quote, where this is leading, I don't want to think about it. I don't want to think about that. But I had bad vibes the very first day when I got that car. I can be straight with you guys, and I hope it stays within the confines of us three. I don't want to believe that I have raised someone, brought someone into this world that could do something to another person. I don't want to believe that. And if where your head should be at. This is a lot better. I didn't know this was coming. It's a lot better. George is in there without me seeing the video myself. It does seem like maybe it's his former police experience, whatever it may be.

Oh, I don't know why he was thinking it was going to stay between the three of them if that's his former police training. No, that's a stupid thing. But I mean, he's not really saying anything incriminating there. He's not giving them anything of substance that's going to be used to convict her. But he's basically saying, hey, guys, cop to cop, brother to brother, I know where this is going. I'm not liking it. All I can ask, that is if you find something that's going to lead where I think this is going, you give me a courtesy, maybe even a professional courtesy so that I can prepare my wife, not only for the death of our granddaughter, but also for the charges that are going to come against our daughter. I mean, he's saying it right out. You don't want to believe you raised someone like this, but it's starting, it's starting to look

that way. And I'm sure the detectives are going, we're not going to tell you anything because we don't know if you're involved, but I do like hearing this because it sounds like he's a little bit more rational than than what we have been hearing which i'm not giving him props here but you know about time no for sure he's he's a little more rational behind closed doors when his wife's not around because he's a pussy right okay so so to her to cindy he's like yeah we're gonna get casey out she could never do this to the public both he and cindy are like yes casey is only doing what's best but behind closed doors when no one can hear he's like i kind of think she did this guy's like can you just let me know so that my wife doesn't have like a heart attack you guys don't deserve to have a freaking

heads up at this point man you let us here and you can't just be out there talking to the reporters and talking to the judge and acting like Casey's an angel. And then behind scenes with the detective kept it all between us three. You're like, I think she did this and I'm going to need, you know, some sort of heads up so that we don't get blindsided by this. Like you don't deserve that. Right. And that could also be an aspect to it where it's like he could be just wanting to know for his own benefit or for the family's benefit so that he can tip people. So, yeah, they're definitely not going to tell him. I mean, that's as a former cop, you should know they're not going to tell him anything. Stand up to your wife, man. Stand up to your wife and say, wake up, Cindy. Wake up. This is

not looking good for anyone. OK, like you're going to have to start accepting it. Yeah. Interesting. All right. Yeah. I was just wondering. George also told the police that he did not like Casey's lawyer, Jose Baez. He said he knew Baez had a $5,000 retainer, but he had no idea how Casey would be paying him because she didn't have any money besides what she had stolen from them and her friends. George also mentioned something interesting to the detectives. He said that around the last time Kaylee had been seen, Cindy had found the side gate open and the pool ladder set up against the pool. If they were not using the pool, the gate would be kept shut and the ladder would be stored away from the pool. Right. So then nobody can accidentally drown in the pool.

Yuri Malik had also gotten a call from Cindy on July 16th, the day that Casey got arrested. She had told him that when she'd gotten home from work on June 16th, the last day that Kaylee had been seen by anyone besides Casey, she had noticed that the side gate was open and the pool ladder was up, and she thought that this was strange, so she called George at work to ask him if he had used the pool and left the ladder up. Now, keep in mind, this is far before Jose Baez ever drops a bomb

on anybody in court, saying that Kaylee accidentally drowned. So we're going to go ahead and say that this is probably a true fact that Cindy did come home on the 16th of June and see the pool ladder up and wondered why it was up. Yeah, I think that goes back to the whole that this was an accident and that it was an accident in the sense that it wasn't intentional, but it was preventable if, it could have been, it was preventable if you're watching your kid. Right. So there are, there are, there are things about it where if they came home and saw that, I do agree with you, there's probably some legitimacy to it. So you have to ask yourself, what does that mean? And I almost wonder if, because, you know, when, when the

defense goes to trial, they, they ask for discovery from the prosecution. Right. And this was probably in the discovery because this conversation with George was recorded. The conversation that Yuri Malik had with Cindy on the 16th of July, that's also going to be in his notes. And I wonder if if Jose Baez saw this and said, here we go, this is this is our answer. This is how it happened. So the whole pool drowning thing could also be a complete red herring, a complete- Could just be derived from what he was reading. It could be derived from what he was reading. Yeah, it's a great point. We only have one more part left after this, so I guess we can kind of dabble in it. I know we're

going to take a break in a couple of seconds, but it's one of those things too where when we're starting to talk about the jury near the end and why they came to the conclusion, we talk about other cases where if there's reasonable doubt, you have to acquit the person. And so as we're going into this with factors like this, where you have individuals bringing up the fact that there was some things out of the ordinary as far as the pool's concerned with the side gate, would that raise some doubt in your head as a jury member? Possibly. So just something to keep in mind as we're going and we start to get into the trial. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Imagine a single cream that addresses all your skincare needs. Wrinkles, dark circles, age spots, and more. Introducing Caviargon Skin Cream, the only argon, caviar, and retinol formula on the

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Experience the luxury your skin deserves. For a limited time, we're giving away a free Gua Sha system, a $70 value with all triple bundle orders. On July 25th, 2008, George and Cindy visited Casey in jail. And I have to say, I think that their dynamic is very strange. For the first time, it made me feel like we might have an inside look into how the Anthonys communicate and relate to each other behind closed doors. So during this conversation, it seemed like George and Cindy were the children and Casey was the parent. You know, the couple is walking on eggshells. They're trying very hard not to say anything that might set Casey off.

And at first, you can see we're going to play a clip. And if you're watching on YouTube, you'll actually see the interview or the, I guess, the visit. It feels like an interview at points because they're grilling her. It's like an hour long, over an hour long. We're not going to play the whole thing, but you can see them talking to each other and you'll be able to hear it. But at first, Casey comes in. She seems completely happy and relaxed. She's smiling. And Casey asked what T-shirt her father was wearing. And her parents informed her that it was a design they had made to raise awareness for the search of Kaylee. Hi. Hi, sweetie. We've been watching you for so long. You have been? I love you. I love you too.

Hi. We've been seeing you sitting down okay I was talking with one of the doctors we forgive anything that you've said hold on can we turn the volume down you can probably hear it

my head's gonna explode I haven't said anything don't worry you see that I haven't said anything. Don't worry. You see that? I haven't said anything. Don't worry. You see how Cindy Anthony says, we forgive you for anything you said.

And then Casey says, I haven't said anything. Don't worry. What are they talking about? I don't know. I don't know. I know what you're, I can think I know where you're going with this.

Are you like scared? She's like snitching them out as far as their involvement with this whole thing? I don't know. I know what you're I can think I know where you're going with this. Are you like scared? She's like snitching them out as far as their involvement with this whole thing. I don't know because I think we agree that George and Cindy were not a part of this this murder or this cover up. What are they talking about? I bet you if we had to go back there and I had all the archival footage. She might have like maybe maybe Casey had been already telling things to detectives and then detectives were relaying it to them to use them against each other. You know what I mean? And that's a tactic I've used where I'll have, cause at this point, let's assume that detectives are assuming

Casey's involved, but so aren't George and Cindy. We just don't have enough for George and Cindy. That's how I would approach it. Parents are definitely in on this. That's what I'm thinking. So as I'm interviewing Casey, the parents don't know what she's saying or what I'm saying. Then when I interview them, I'm trying to pin them against each other to get them to say, oh, she said that, well, this is what actually happened. So there could be an element. I'm guessing here, total guess that they're getting information from law enforcement or from media that Casey's inside those four walls. And she's telling people that these, this is her parents fault. They're somehow involved, you know, whatever it may be. And it sounds like Casey's just like, don't worry about it. I'm not talking bad about you. I, it would be pretty crazy to think that this would be referring to some type of criminal element when they clearly both know they're being recorded.

They know that law enforcement is going to be monitoring this, I would think. This is something that's really always stuck with me because to me it was like one of two things. Like either they are talking about what happened to Kaylee or they're talking about sexual abuse, worried that Casey might be spilling the beans to her psychiatrists behind the scenes. Very possible. I have no clue. I think it's really an interesting segment there where we forgive you for everything you said. A weird thing to start off with, we forgive you for anything you may have said. I haven't said anything. Don't worry. That's why I kind of feel like it might be something that they're coming into the conversation with that may have been put out publicly or may have been put out something that Casey would have

known that because at this point, like you said earlier, Nancy, great. Everyone's involved in this. They're all talking about it. So they're watching the news and there's probably some things that have been, I know there are things that were said about the parents and their past and maybe some of the rumors and speculation out there. And it sounds like maybe Cindy's trying to break the ice by saying, listen, we love you because that's the first thing she says. We love you. We forgive anything that you've said to them. So to the fact that she said, we forgive you sounds like it might be something more of

a personal attack as opposed to a criminal element where have you said anything about us being involved in this? That's my initial impression, but purely a guess on my my part i don't even know you can forgive someone for something you don't even know that they said like what if she said some horrendous things and cindy's over here just like blanket forgiveness for everything you've said you know do you think at this point some of the stuff could have come out about you know george maybe in the news you know i i mean i don't remember it that well at this point but i do want you guys if you're watching on YouTube, let us know in the comments what you possibly think that this could be about because it's so bizarre. And I want to play one more clip from this jailhouse visit

and we'll discuss it after. What's that t-shirt? I didn't get a chance to ask him, you know, other things. Kaylee's picture's on the back. Is it? Can Dad show me the shirt? Turn around so she can see. It's the Never Lose Hope Foundation. Do you see it? I can see part of it, yeah. Have you seen me? And then it has the information on how to contact. Okay.

Casey, you don't realize the whole United States is looking for Kaylee. I know that one. Her cover's going to be on People Magazine in a few days. Okay. Everybody is looking for her. Oh, good. Everybody is looking for her. Are we going to be able to find her, do you think?

I hope we can, Mom. All right, can I weigh in first here? Yeah. I know I'm like the cheerleader for them, but you have to do. They think that she did it. They definitely do that. The way she's taught the way Cindy's even talking to her right there. Are we going to find her Casey? That's what she's saying. She's inferring like, you know what happened to her. Tell us like, I know they may not say it publicly, but they know they know that she's involved. I can see it with my own eyes. They definitely know, one, whatever happened to Kaylee, Casey knows what happened. And two, there is a very high likelihood that Kaylee is no longer alive. I truly believe that's what that says. I mean, you guys all judge for yourself. That's where I'm at. It's so annoying to me that they're like, oh yeah, look at this, and she's going to be on People magazine.

And later on in this, I keep wanting to call it an interview, but visit, Casey's like, mom, I've been hearing about you. They say you're a spitfire like me, and nobody should mess with you. You're famous. People are talking about you. It's just so odd. And you can see that when Cindy's like, everyone's looking for her, Casey's like, good. That's it. Oh, yeah. No emotion whatsoever. You see this dynamic, right? Her parents are being very careful. They don't want to say anything to set her off. They don't want to say anything to upset her. They want to keep her in a good and

happy mood. I don't know what they're hoping to do. Get information from her. They're not going to get information from her if she's grumpy. They're not going to get information from her if she's happy. They're not ever going to get information from her. So at what point do you look your daughter in the eye and say, we know you did this. We know you're irresponsible. You're going to fry, sweetheart. So you better start talking. Scare the shit out of her. This is not working. This little pussy footing around. Oh, sweetheart, we miss you so much. Look at this shirt. Tell her that she's going to get the electric chair and scare the crap out of her until she tells you what you want to know. Because if there's one thing we know

motivates Casey Anthony, it's self-preservation. It's one of those. I truly believe that they're like tiptoeing like they probably have their whole lives around, you know, not wanting to set her off, not wanting her to have a temper tantrum. They're trying to keep her on the phone. But my gut, my heart, my eyes, everything is telling me right here as I'm looking at Cindy. And by the way, if you're listening on audio, even if you're not a visual like YouTube watcher, just go to this part in the episode and you have to watch it for yourself because the audio, we're going to have it in the audio, but it's not going to do it justice. You got to see it with your own eyes. Like I'm seeing this for the first time. And regardless of everything I've said about Cindy and George, that to me is a conversation that I've had with my daughters over something trivial where it's like, I know the answer to

this question already. Just tell me, just tell me, you know, it's okay. You can trust me. Yeah. Peyton, I'm going to go upstairs right now and I'm not going to find all the lip gloss poured all over the floor, right? When I already have been up there, I already know deep down. It's a, this just happened like a day ago. That's why I'm bringing up a really sore subject because my carpet's ruined. Anyways, she's asking a question that deep down she already knows the answer to. And she's just looking for a visual. You can see how close she is. Look at the body language. She's leaning forward. She's looking at the camera. She knows her daughter. As crazy as it is, she knows her daughter better than anyone.

And she knows when she's lying to her. And she's trying to get a read on her right now. That's my takeaway on it. She's definitely trying to get a read, not for Casey, but to try to find Kaylee. She just wants to find Kaylee. What does she need to get a read for? She's read this book a million times for over 20 years. What are you trying to get a read for she's read this book a million times for over 20 years true what are you trying to get a read on and i tell you what if it's my kid i'm gonna be like dude you're gonna get the death penalty and if you don't i'll kill you myself so either way you're dead you better tell us what the hell's going on man yeah but then casey's gonna go click and hang up and now you lost her click and hang up then she's on her own don't give her money to get her

out don't be a support system for her you do your job and help the police and look for Kaylee because this is a lost cause. Set her out like a Viking funeral. You know, push her out to sea and then throw a lighted bow and arrow at her and freaking let her let her fry. Honestly, at this point. And I just I don't know any freaking George Anthony sitting there like a freaking mute Barbie doll just to be posed like show show her the back of your shirt, George. And he's like, OK, well, Casey, Casey back of your shirt George and he's like okay well Casey

asked to see it he's freaking not even saying anything he's just sitting there like I can't believe I'm part of the charade but he can't hear her no but he's just sitting there he's literally I think he's thinking like I can't believe I'm part of the charade like I can't believe

that we have to sit here and freaking kiss this girl's ass, hoping she'll tell us something about where our precious grandchild is. Did information ever come out that this setup was actually maybe police were involved where they were cooperating? We're cooperating witnesses at this point, Cindy and George. Yeah. Maybe they sent them in. I was just wondering if there's ever something that came out since. No, man, they didn't send them in.

No, I think the police were pretty suspicious of them. They thought they could be involved as well. Understandably so. Maybe not even thinking you could be involved, but thinking to spawn something like Casey Anthony, you got to have some skeletons in your closet. So we're not going to trust you. Yeah, there's more to the story. Fair enough. Strongly recommend, even if you don't go watch the video yourself. Yes. The whole thing should you should listen to it it's insane yeah that that uh this little part that we've played so far it's definitely it tells me something way in the comments below what do you think in seeing this little section do you think it's more a self-preservation thing for cindy where she's kind of like trying to cover her own tracks by

asking are we going to find kaylee when in reality she already knows because she's involved? Or is it something where she knows Casey's lying and she's genuinely trying to get a read on her daughter as to whether Kaylee's still alive or not? A little tough love never hurt anybody. Okay. That's what Cindy needs to start doing. Give me tough love every episode. Yeah.

Stop it. But you know I'm right and it's what's best for you doing. Give me tough love every episode. Yeah. Stop it. But you know, I'm right. And it's what's best for you. Oh, here we go. So during this, this interview, Casey puts on a good show. She sheds a few tears. She's being nice to her parents until they start to question her about Zanny. And then she gets like kind of aggravated and short.

And she keeps trying to take the topic and the subject like off of Zanny. And she's like, do you know what's going on with my bail? Am I going to get bail? What's happening? And it's pretty clear to me that Casey's making things up as she goes along. They're saying, tell us more about Zannie. Anything you can remember about her, anything, even the smallest detail is important. She's like, well, I think Zannie's mother's name is Gloria. And I think that her father's name is Victor, but he's not a real father. He might have been her stepfather, but he adopted her. And Zannie has a sister, a sister named Samantha. Samantha has the whitest name possible. And

Samantha and Zannie, they've got different dads. And like I said, she keeps trying to change the subject off of Zannie. And she tells her mother, like I said, you're getting all this praise in the media, just like I am. Everybody says we're not to be messed with, the Anthony women. And it's so clear that every time they're prying or trying to get information about Zanny from her, she changes the subject

and tries to like blow smoke up her parents' ass and things like that. She doesn't want to talk about Zanny because everything she's saying, she's making up on the spot. Yeah, I agree. I have no more comment on the whole Zanny stuff because I think at this point, for me at least, it's debunked. There is no Zanny the nanny and

the one person who could be Casey herself couldn't identify her as the person. So it's a dead issue for me. Anybody out there who still believes there is some validity to this theory, I love you, but I can't help you. They're in the Cindy Anthony school of denial. I can't help you at this point. So on July 29th, Linda Burdick from the prosecutor's office offered Jose Baez a deal of limited use immunity for his client. The sheriff's department had previously made a statement that, quote, FBI lab tests, along with additional evidence that had not been made public, leads investigators to believe that there is a strong probability that Kaylee Anthony is deceased, end quote. So limited use immunity, it's a legal term.

It's used to describe a deal in which limited immunity is offered to the defendant. But it is a slippery slope, especially with Casey. So it means Casey's own statements, they couldn't be used against her in a court of law. But those statements could be used to find evidence that then could be used against Casey in a court of law. And if Casey were to lie in court, her statements could then be used against her during cross examination. So if you lie in court, then that that immunity deal is like off the table and it's no holds barred. And I mean, I'm sure Jose Baez was like, Casey, we probably shouldn't take this deal because I mean, you can't open up your mouth without lying. So we'll be 30 seconds in court and the deal's done. So they did not take it. They didn't even really inform the prosecution's office that they weren't taking it. The deadline came for Casey to accept the deal. And then there was no word from Baez. So the deal went away. On the outside, everyone was looking for Kaylee. Some people were just

good Samaritans hoping to rescue the little girl whose face had been all over their television sets. Others were simply interested in the large reward being offered for information about her disappearance. Cindy Anthony called in Texas Equal Searcharch. Texas EquiSearch, if you're a true crime fan or follower, you have probably heard about this company before. They're in all the big searches. They basically just train people to be like professional searchers in search parties. They train them how to search in grids. They train them how to like flag things and not touch them. And, you know, they're very good. And Cindy thought that the police in Orlando were not doing enough to find Kaylee. So she called in Texas EquiSearch.

The circus outside the Anthony home continued and it got worse by the day due to something called the Sunshine Law in Florida. So the Sunshine Law basically guarantees that the general public can have access to public and governmental records in the state of Florida. It's meant to provide transparency. I think it's awesome. I think every state should have a law like this. I really do love the Sunshine law. I would be I mean, I filed a million FOIA requests and barely any of them ever get approved or looked at. And then if they do get approved, they try to screw you over. And they're like, yeah, you can have these records at $400 a page, you know,

and then you're like, oh, shit, I can't do that. So you're kind of always as somebody who's trying to investigate something, you're always sort of cut off at the knees with this thing where you can't get the records. But in Florida, they're pretty much wide open. In this case with Kaylee, it meant that anyone who knew how to file a request for information would get an inside look into the police investigation. And then you've obviously got media companies doing these FOIA requests. So they're getting the information and then they're publishing it for the people who don't know how to file a request. So basically everybody knew and they were kind of knowing what was happening in the case as it was happening.

And as I'm sure you can tell from the several hours we've spent going over what Casey was doing during the month that her daughter was missing, there was plenty there in those records to send outrage through every single person. Normal, concerned citizens turned into an angry lynch mob sitting outside the Anthony home, yelling baby killer at their tightly closed and locked doors, holding up posters with Kaylee's face on them and chanting, where's Kaylee? Where's Kaylee? Now, at random times, both Cindy and George Anthony would exit their homes to confront these people, providing plenty of unflattering footage for the surrounding media cameras

who were just waiting for someone to get punched or knocked out. So you've got tons of footage of Cindy and George Anthony just like screaming in these protesters face and just it's messy. It's very reminiscent of the laundry home that we saw play out just a couple months ago. Yeah, no, I saw some of the videos, you see them screaming each other's faces, all that stuff. I mean, I personally don't think it's productive. I think it's not going to bring them to come, you know, to their knees where they're going to eventually, you know, I think some people go there, like if we pressure them enough, they'll just confess. It's not going

to work. It'll do the opposite if anything. So I personally don't feel it works. I don't think it doesn't help the case at all. And I do think there's an element of people that go there just because, you know, even just like OJ, they just want to be on the news. Right. So I'm not for it, but, you know, it isn't it isn't part of it now, I guess, especially as social media continues to take over the world. It's going to become more and more prevalent. Yeah. And I mean, you see this in a lot of ways. You know, this happened in Scott Peterson. And then did you ever see the movie Gone Girl? Yeah, I've seen Gone Girl, of course. And I mean, listen, even more recent, Gabby Petito.

Yeah. I mean, what do you need more than that? We didn't even have a lot of the facts and people were filling in the blanks and sitting on their front. Now we have our feelings on the parents, right? But we're not standing in front of their house. Never heard. So, so that's.

Because there's always a slim chance, even if you feel so strongly, there's a slim chance you're wrong and you're just screaming and harassing innocent people. And that slim chance prevents me from ever acting like a fool. Well, not ever. I act like a fool sometimes, but not in this capacity. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I think it's a good train of thought to be on.

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a $70 value with all triple bundle orders. On August 11th, a meter reader named Roy Kronk stumbled upon something in the woods not far from the Anthony home. I'm talking half a mile away from the Anthony home. Roy was a meter reader for Orange County, and he had just done the Anthony Street suburban drive. He was reading all the meters, but he had to pee, so he pulled over and he went into the woods, which was kind of like a swampy area, to relieve himself. When he left the woods and got back into his vehicle, Roy called 911 and claimed that while he'd been peeing, he'd been sort of looking around. You know, people do that, I guess. I don't know. I'm not a man. But if you go out and pee in the woods, you're probably looking around,

not just staring at the ground. And he spotted what he thought was a gray bag, partially submerged in water. And near that gray bag, he saw a small whitish object that he believed resembled a human skull. And I'm going to play that 911 call for you now. Hi, I don't have it. I called a non-emergency line. How can I help you, sir? I'm a meter reader with Orange County, and I had the route today that included the Anthony's home. Okay, and I went down to the school and came back, and when I was coming back, I stopped between the two swamp areas there. I don't know if you know what I'm talking about or not. No, but go ahead. There's a stretch of road there that goes from where the start of their road is down to a school, and in between it, on the other side, there's a swamp. And if you're heading back out towards the main road on the left-hand side in an area,

I noticed something that looked white, and there was a gray bag down in there. I don't know what it is. I'm not telling you it's Kaley or anything of that nature. And there's a big swamp area there, there we found a dead four-foot uh eastern diamond rattleback there but that's not really the thing there's like two in areas you can go and there's a big long tree laying down and there's a lot of swamp back in there well back behind one of the trees down there was a gray bag and then a little bit further up than that i saw something white but after i saw that four-foot eastern diamond rattlesnake i'm not

going in that crop okay I'll let him know. I appreciate you, and once again, I had no idea what it was, so I don't want to waste any more of the county's money, but I'm just telling you I saw something. Not a problem. Thank you, ma'am. Thanks, bye-bye. Bye-bye.

The 911 operator thanked him for the information, and she said she would pass it on to the relevant authorities. Roy Kronk called again the next day on August 12th, and he repeated what he had seen the day before. Sheriff's Office? Yeah, hi, my name is Roy Kronk called again the next day on August 12th and he repeated what he had seen the day before. Yeah, hi, my name is Roy Kronk. I'm a meter reader with Orange County. Yesterday, I read the Anthony's Well. We got done and I got done and I went down here where the school is down there at the bottom of Suburban. I called this thing yesterday. I don't know if it's what y'all looked at today or not, but on the way back up, I stopped in the middle of it. There's a swamp.

If you're coming out, there would be a fence on the right-hand side and just open, you know, swamp area on the left-hand side. I went down, and, well, I haven't taken it. I went down, and behind one of the trees was a gray vinyl-like bag, like a pool cover or something like that. And it looked rather suspicious. I didn't touch anything. And then a little bit further up, you can tell there was someone

running across with a mirror, but the weeds were still real high in that area. There was a fallen tree that looked like someone had tried to cut on it at one point, but there was a white board hanging across the tree, and there was something round and white underneath of it. And I don't know what it is, but it just didn't look like something that should be there. Okay, sir. I want to send this call up. I'm going to take a look for the bag.

I also have another phone number that I need you to dial. Is the phone number set up for anything doing with the Kaylee investigation? What, the TIF sign? Yes, sir. I really rather would not be an accounting employee and all that. That's why I'm talking to you, Ryan. You can still do it. Regardless if you're an accounting employee, you can remain anonymous. Not if they find a freaking

body. Yes, sir. You can still remain anonymous if they do find a corpse. Please do that. Do you have the phone number? Uh, what is it? Go ahead. 1-800-423- Hold on a second. 423. Tips.

Tips. All right, boss. Thank you, Juwan. I really appreciate it. Not a problem. Bye. Once again, he was thanked, and the operator also suggested that he should call the tip line, the Kaylee Anthony tip line. A deputy was sent to the area that Kronk had indicated. He looked around for a bit, but he claimed he didn't see anything, so he left. Roy called 911 again on August 13th, and this time the police sent two officers to meet Roy at the area near Suburban Drive where he'd seen these suspicious items. I'm a meterer with Orange County. Called in a tip the other day and they said they would dispatch an officer out to me when I got there. And I'm here.

All right. I'll have somebody out there as soon as I can. All right. Thank you. You have a good day, sir. You too. Bye bye. The first deputy who arrived walked toward the water line. Like I said, this is a forested area, but it's Florida. It's very swampy. And we're also talking August. There had been a lot of rainfall the previous couple of months. Kronk said that the deputy walked back towards him after going to that area, and he was like slipping on the uneven wet ground. And Kronk claimed that the police officer got within six feet of the object but never touched it. Now, when the police officer returned to the road where Kronk was waiting, they argued about whether or not a dead child's remains would have been skeletal by that point. The deputy told Kronk that he was wasting the police's time

and Kronk felt belittled by this accusation. A second deputy arrived just then, but he didn't even go into the woods because the Orange County Sheriff's Department was under the impression that this area had already been searched and cleared by crime scene investigators. Due to the way he had been treated after calling three times and taking his own personal time to drive out there to show the police exactly where and what he had seen, Roy claims he gave up trying to make them listen, at least for a little while. Yeah, terrible. Really quick doesn't have to mean it's exactly how it sounds, right? I think that the police were inundated with tips coming in again everyone wants to be involved everyone knows where

kaylee is there's probably multiple sightings they're going into the situation with this preconceived notion that the area has already been searched and therefore nobody could have missed anything and they're not doing their job they're not doing their job it's that simple and pretty embarrassing for both of them that they were within feet, especially the one officer was within feet of Kaylee's body. And you didn't spot it. Probably not a good sign that you're going to be a good detective one day. So yeah, I'm embarrassed by that. Embarrassed by that whole chain of events. Yeah, it's really, really uncomfortable. And then we're going to talk about this in the next part, but Jose Baez, like, just skewers Roy Kronk on the stand and basically tries to accuse him of planting Kaylee's body there to try to get the reward. Like, super uncomfortable. So on August

14th, Cindy and George Anthony visited Casey in jail again. And Casey came into the visiting room with a cheerful composure, excited to see her parents. But when she noticed that her mother, Cindy, was crying, she immediately got annoyed and asked her father, George, quote, why is she crying already? End quote. Her parents asked her again if she had any information for them. And, you know, had she found out anything new? And she snapped at them. She was like, I've been behind bars for a month. How could I possibly have any new information? And Casey then rudely tells her mother, Cindy, like, listen, I don't want to talk to you. Give the phone to dad.

George is actually the person I want to talk to. And so Cindy gives him the phone. The following conversation is so weird because George Anthony clearly and easily defers to his daughter. So we're going to play that clip. Good morning. Good morning, beautiful. I love you. Hi, I love you too.

Why is she crying already? Because we haven't seen you. I know. Hey, hold on one second. Miss Baker. Hey, sweetheart. Hey. Hey, listen, I want you to know. Hey, hold on one second. Miss Baker. Hey, sweetheart. Hey. Hey, listen, I want you to know, you are the boss through this whole thing, okay?

Well, no, I'm not anymore, Dad. I haven't been since I got here. Oh, yes. Oh, yes, you are. You are the... Think of this for a second. Dad, I've been... Listen, okay. Listen, no, no, just listen to me just for one moment. Okay, just listen to me for one second. Dad, I've been thinking about this. Okay, just listen to me for one second, okay? Listen, think of you owning this

conglomerate, this huge business. Jose is one of your employees, so is the sheriff's department, so is the FBI, so am I, so is Lee, so is Mom. You know, we're all working with you. And if for some reason something's not being said or being done, you can make a change.

You're the one who can say, listen. Dad, I've told Jose. No, I've given him the information to give you guys. We've given the information. You guys have given everything to the police. They're not helping us. It's obvious. We know their intentions.

So I'm sorry. I've helped in every way that I possibly can since the day I got here. They didn't even give me 24 hours to help them, the police, without putting me here. So it's obvious where everybody's intentions lie. I know you guys want Kaylee. I want Kaylee more than anybody can understand, but I can't do anything. I can't do anything from where I'm at. Okay, let me ask you this. If I can make some arrangements just to meet with you just one-on-one,

just you and I or Lee or Mom, would you be open to that? Because I can do it within a matter of just a few hours. Dad, this was already discussed, and I already said yes. Okay. This was something that we had already discussed. Supposedly, it was supposed to have already happened. Well, there's been some... I understand.

There's nothing been on my part to change that, or Mom's part, or your brother's part. No, I understand that. It's not you guys. I told these guys within an hour, I can be ready. I want to hug you. I want to talk to you. Just you and I. Jose is making sure that I'm well aware of everything that's going on.

I don't understand what's happening. He's like, hey beautiful. Once again, just blowing smoke up her ass. They're coddling her like they've probably done their entire life. But he says, like, you're the boss, you know? And she says, I'm not anymore.

So it kind of gives me an indication that she has been the boss before, that they have deferred to her, that it is that dynamic that they have. And she's frustrated. He's trying to help her. He's being very calm and nice. Like I said, way more calm and nice than I would be at this point. We're talking August, August 14th. So she's been in jail for about a month. And as far as they know, Kaylee's been missing for, what is this at this point? Two months? Two months Kaylee's been missing. And she has the balls to ask, why is mom crying already? Why is mom crying? Cindy's been crying every single day because her granddaughter's missing. Why aren't you crying is the better question, I think.

Right. It's a lot of the same stuff. I think we've all established at this point the dynamic of the family and it's not a good one. And I think they're tired at this point. It's been, like you said, almost two months. And a reasonable person at this point may think, yeah, there's still a possibility,

but more than likely Kaylee's dead. And I think that's part of what's coming over Cindy as well, where she's looking at her daughter and she's knowing she's not telling them the truth and they just want to find Kaylee at this point dead or alive. And they're exhausted, I'm sure, every day, 24 hours a day. People outside their house not letting them sleep. They're out there trying to search. They're on the news everywhere. Doing interviews

left and right. Yeah. So during the time she was in jail, Casey told everyone who called or visited her that she wished so badly, so badly to get bail so that she could get out and help search for Kaylee. So hotshot Sacramento bounty hunter Leonard Padilla offered to put up her bond with the hopes that once she was out, he could get information from her, which would lead to the location of Kaylee. On August 20th, Padilla had a secret meeting at an IHOP with Casey's legal team, and he gave them a check for $50,000 to get Casey out of jail. When Casey was released, she was sent to the Anthony home where Leonard Padilla was waiting to extract information from her. Padilla claims that while he was talking to Casey, a pizza was

delivered to the house and then another pizza was delivered. So the family began to eat the pizza. Leonard asked Lee Anthony, you know, did you guys order the pizzas? And he claims that Lee said yes. So he started eating too. But when a third and fourth and fifth pizza were delivered, the Anthonys finally confessed that they had not ordered the pizzas. And Leonard blew up at them. He asked them, like, do you guys think this is a game? You know, at this point, Casey Anthony was the most hated woman in America. Somebody just sent five pizzas to your house on the night she gets released from prison. Someone could have poisoned those pizzas and you guys are just eating them with smiles on your

faces, not even knowing where they came from. Like what's wrong with these people, right? So Leonard's pissed. Poison's the worst case scenario. I could think of a series of other things that could be in that pizza. There probably was a series of other things in that pizza. Yeah, there probably was. That's disgusting. Okay. So Leonard tried to get Casey to tell him something new, which she did. Right. She told him an entirely new story, a different story than she had told the police. And this story consisted of Zanata physically like holding Casey down in a park while she was kidnapping Kaylee and then presenting Casey with a list of things she wanted her to tell the police. According to Padilla, he became angry. Kaylee and then presenting Casey with a list of things she wanted her to tell the police.

According to Padilla, he became angry. He realized that Casey probably just couldn't tell the truth, and he told her, quote, I didn't come 3,000 miles and leave my chihuahua to listen to this shit, end quote. Now, if you see, you probably see if you're watching on YouTube a picture of Leonard Padilla. He's a big guy. He always wears a cowboy hat. He's the kind of guy that would put spurs on his sneakers. And he's mad that he had to leave his chihuahua to come and listen to Casey lying. So Casey informed him. She was like, if you're going to talk to me like a cop, you can leave, which he did. And she never saw Leonard Padilla again. But for the short time he was in her home, Casey had talked to Padilla's head of security, a man named Robert Dick, and he claims that she told him she hadn't known she was going to become a celebrity and she wondered if she should start selling autographed pictures of herself. Now,

within a week of being released, Casey's friend Amy Huizenga pressed charges against her for check fraud, and so Casey was back behind bars. During the several days she was out of jail, Casey made no effort to look for Kaylee or add anything productive to help anyone else find her. In October, the prosecution decided to take the physical evidence they had to the grand jury. In his book, Imperfect Justice, prosecutor Jeff Ashton said, quote, From the evidence we had collected thus far, our conclusion was that the child had decomposed in the back of her car and Casey had attempted to bury the body in her backyard with a shovel she borrowed from a neighbor. The story she told was clearly false and, in my opinion,

showed an unmistakable consciousness of guilt. Whether it was because of this guilt or something else, she had been that hole that George Anthony found with the neighbor's shovel, right? But the dogs didn't sense any like human decomposition or anything in that hole so they were the prosecution was thinking she must not have ended up going through with it i think that's a reasonable scenario right because what's the random hole in the backyard from exactly i think you only said it was about how deep was it five inches you said 12 inches wide five inches deep i think yeah so that's not very big she probably was like this is too much work to freaking dig a hole honestly Honestly, when you were saying it,

that's what I was thinking. I'm thinking she's going to bury her in the backyard because there's a private area that no one can search without their consent. Right. So that's your first thought. Bury her in the backyard. I won't be seen transporting the, I won't be, you know, seen, you know, dumping the body in any public area. There's no chance for witnesses, right? It's on my own property. However, as you just said, she's trying to dig it herself. And for anyone who's tried to dig up ground, especially any deeper than like five or six inches, it starts to get really compacted, really difficult. And when you think about the size of even a small child, that's a lot of growth you have to dig up. And it would be very obvious to anybody who comes there to look for Kaylee that that area

was recently dug up and then refilled in, right? You wouldn't be able to cover it quickly enough for no one to notice it, especially if her parents weren't involved, right? So that's a non-starter. So I do agree with you. She starts to dig it, realizes this isn't going to work. Not only is it difficult to dig, but even if I'm able to pull it off, you're clearly going to see this spot in the yard that was dug up and then refilled in. So that's when she makes the decision to dispose of Kaylee's

body at a different location, hidden from eyes that may not ever be found. Where she can just toss her to the side like a bag of garbage and she doesn't have to dig a hole because God forbid she should break a sweat. And that's something we had talked about when we talked about the shovel and her asking for it. That makes more sense to me. Because she brought it back within an hour, remember? And he said she wasn't dirty. She wasn't sweaty. Exactly.

And Kaylee doesn't appear to have been buried. You had said that there was a lot of flooding and that could have like washed away some of the dirt on her. If it was, I personally, whether you believe it's Casey or not, I do. I don't think, like you just said, I think she was dumped there. She wasn't really covered much and there was no use for the shovel. Well, because she was in a bag, right? So she's in a bag. You can just throw her. Just put her there and hopefully nobody finds her. Anybody passing by, if they see it, they'll think somebody threw their garbage out the door. The shovel theory, as far as it being used in the, I mean, I challenge anybody out there to kind of bring up a different theory for why Casey was looking for a shovel, returned it an hour later, and it just so happens to be a small area that was dug up in the backyard. That would take, you know, a little, probably less than an hour, but she probably contemplated it for a little bit

and then brought it back when she realized, no, this isn't going to work. And maybe she was actually digging up a bamboo root. Maybe. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. While your daughter's missing. Reasonable doubt.

Yeah, reasonable doubt. The bamboo root. So one of the hairs that had been found in Casey's trunk, it ended up being consistent with a hair from Kaylee Anthony. Now, unfortunately, the root of the hair was not present, so it couldn't be tested for DNA. So, you know, where the root goes into your skull, if it gets pulled out, there will be like not enough for us to see with the human eye, but skin present that you can test for DNA. But this was not the case here. But under a microscope, this hair compared to one taken from Kaylee's hairbrush, it looked similar.

Further mitochondrial testing on the hair showed that it had come from a female member of the Anthony family, but the hair was untreated hair. So it was assumed to be Kaylee's. And when I say untreated, I mean this hair hadn't been colored or permed. And both Casey and Cindy Anthony had in the past treated their hair. So this is basically the hair of a child, that nothing has happened to it yet. Additionally, Karen Korsborg Lowe, a forensic specialist with the FBI, she claimed she had found what was called death banding on the hair. This darkened band found at the root of the hair, according to Karen and other specialists,

it shows that the hair came from a decomposing body. The experts had also done something that was considered cutting edge at that time. They took an odor analysis of the air from Casey Anthony's trunk, a technique developed by Dr. Arpad Voss. Dr. Voss had compiled 424 compounds that were associated with the process of decomposition, and according to him, he found 41 of these compounds in the air of Casey's trunk, and he claimed that nearly all of these compounds would normally be found in the early stages of decomposition. Additionally, FBI laboratory results also found levels of these compounds in the air of the trunk using a gas chromatography mass spectrometer. According to the FBI technician, 67% of these compounds in the air of the trunk using a gas chromatography mass spectrometer. According to the FBI technician, 67% of these compounds were associated with human decomposition.

These FBI lab tests also showed there were high levels of chloroform in the trunk of the Pontiac. Additionally, Dr. Neil Haskell, a professor of forensic science, he examined samples from the trash bag found in Casey's trunk, as well as the car itself. He claimed he found the presence of microscopic flies, which he called coffin flies, in the garbage bag as well as in the trunk. Haskell said he found about 15 to 20 adults and an abundance of larvae, especially on paper towels found in the garbage bag, leading him to theorize that the paper towels had been used to wipe away decompositional fluids. Haskell said that blowflies are usually the first insects to arrive at a decomposing body,

and he did find a blowfly leg in the garbage bag attached to one of those paper towels. He also said that as the body goes through different levels of decomposition, the blowflies lose interest and other types of insects move in. Haskell said that the entomological evidence found in the trunk indicated that the body of a child had been in that trunk, but it was removed after a few days. I won't rehash everything you just said. This was when we first opened up this case. This was what I mainly focused on, on Dr. Oz. And we were talking about it, this specific thing. And for me, I am former law enforcement, but this was the smoking

gun to, as far as whether or not Kaylee was transported in Casey Anthony's vehicle at any point. There are some people that still dispute it. Maybe you're going to get into that, but I think there's a couple of things you can take away from it. And for me, it's that Kaylee was definitely in that trunk after she was deceased. You have multiple different things, whatever you want to go with, whether it's the gases, whether it's the banding on the hair, whether it's the coffin flies. The coffin wax, they called it on the paper towels, which- Whatever you, pick your poison, pick your poison, what you want to choose. And then we can get it. So that's the, was she transported in that vehicle? I think it's an overwhelming yes. Then you get into the means of which she was killed right now. That's something

that we're all still trying to figure out. But as you alluded to this high amounts of chloroform found in the air, in the car, in the trunk. That's not something that's normally found there. So that gets into the idea that she was intentionally killed, right? She was suffocated, she was killed. And so you can start to go down that path as well. But I think one thing, if we're just to compartmentalize here, I think it's with a reasonable scientific degree of certainty that Kaylee Anthony, after dying, was placed in that trunk for an extended period of time, maybe a day, maybe two days, maybe three days, but she was there. And it goes back to what I said earlier. There's no evidence that someone else had possession

of that Pontiac Sunfire for that duration that would have been able to kill Kaylee or take Kaylee and do that. Because as we know, Casey had her vehicle that night. She had it at Tony Lazaro. She had it in her possession. So again, reasonable person here. If she's the only one in possession of the vehicle and you have scientific evidence to support Kaylee was in there. And we also have evidence to suggest Kaylee wasn't heard from or seen by anyone after that particular time. Do the math guys. You know, that's, that's where it comes down to. And I'm not saying it to you. I'm saying jury members, things like that. So that's the big takeaway here. That's kind of what we laid out on the show. Nancy Grace was on it as

well. And it's like, this is for her, as you've pointed out, very emotional. She was crushing this right here. This was her, you know, like this is common sense at this point where you have to believe that these people doing this, these experts know what they're talking about. And they're not looking specifically for Kaylee in some senses. They're just saying, hey, listen, we deal with a lot of dead bodies. This is not something we would find in a trunk unless there had been a dead body in it. Exactly. Exactly. And let's talk about some of what transpired between Casey and the mental health professionals who had been tasked with figuring out if she was of sound mind and body. Now, when I first went into this like years ago, I was like, they're definitely going to find out something's wrong with her, right?

We've been saying it like you would think that she has she has to have some sort of mental issue that causes her to be the way she is. right? So let's talk about what they found. When psychiatrist Jeff Danziger first met with Casey in jail, he made notes stating, quote, mood good, reading books, keeping self-distracted, calm, bright affect, no feelings of guilt, not hopeless, sleeping fine, appetite okay, weight stable, energy okay, concentration normal,

able to read, surprisingly cheerful, not manic, end quote. Danziger noted that Casey's cheerful and upbeat attitude was a surprise to him, considering she was sitting in jail as a suspect in her daughter's murder. Dr. Danziger gave Casey an MMPI test. This is a psychological test that assesses personality traits and psychopathology, and it's primarily intended to test individuals who are suspected of having some kind of mental health disorder. Dr. Danziger said, quote, there are two reasons I did the MMPI. First, it's a high-profile case, and I thought it's worth taking the extra hour and a half to have her do it. Second, I wondered about her defensive profile. I wondered, could she be deliberately minimizing, consciously saying, I'm fine, nothing is wrong with me, when that is not so, end quote. So basically, Casey, he wanted to see if this was a defense

mechanism, right? If Casey acting like she had this bright affect and she was cheerful and her mood was good and she was sleeping fine and eating fine, he wanted to see, was this some sort of defense mechanism where she was really like torn up inside, but she was putting and her mood was good and she was sleeping fine and eating fine. He wanted to see was this some sort of defense mechanism where she was really like torn up inside, but she was putting on this fake facade to trick people and something she had probably gotten used to doing all through her life. Casey's MMPI test came back completely normal with elevation found in only one area, the male-female scale. This indicated to Danziger that Casey might be a bit of a tomboy. She might be more interested in traditionally masculine things like cars. And that was pretty much it.

Like, that's the only thing that stuck out to him. Danziger said, quote, I don't see anything that meets the criteria for a mood disorder, anxiety disorder, an eating disorder, or a substance abuse disorder, end quote. Another psychiatrist, Dr. William Weitz, who would later be hired by Casey's defense team, he had Casey take the TSI test, which stands for trauma symptom inventory. Dr. Weitz also reported that Casey was not suffering from a personality disorder, saying, quote, there are lots of behaviors that are

required in an antisocial personality. There has to be a number of them in order to even meet the first criteria. In order to diagnose antisocial personality disorder, there must be a history of evidence and diagnosis of a conduct disorder before the age of 16. Not only does it not exist, but Ms. Anthony's behavior is completely opposite to that. Ms. Anthony shows no history of any juvenile problems. There's no indication of problems with peers or teachers or authority figures in school. There's no evidence of acting out, misbehaving, disturbance whatsoever. In fact, she wins awards for helpfulness.

She's liked by her school teacher, principals, and peers. She wins the Citizenship peers. She wins the citizenship award. She wins the junior achievement award. She's on the sports teams in soccer, volleyball, and in track and gets accolades. I've read them. Basically, there's no history of violence, aggression, any commitment of any behavior that would be antithetical to rules and regulations of school, of churches, of the legal system. Her behavior is conformity. I acknowledge that she has told lies. She has told distortions. She had misrepresented things, and unfortunately, that's not the only criteria for antisocial personality disorder. There's

nothing in any of the psychometric subscales that I looked at that indicates any evidence of psychopathy, end quote. Dr. Weitz was asked if there was evidence of a narcissistic personality disorder, to which he replied, quote, she likes to be liked. She wants approval. She really likes to focus certain things on herself. Having narcissistic qualities is not the same as having a narcissistic personality disorder, end quote. He said that for Casey to have killed her child, she would have had to have gone through some sort of psychotic break, some psychotic episode. Both mental health professionals believed that while Kaylee had been with her mother, Casey was a devoted and good

mother to her, and they could see no motive for why she would have wanted to kill Kaylee. So I could summarize my thought on this whole thing. That was a lot there. Very congrat- you nailed that whole thing. It's a long quote there. But for me, what that says is, okay, there's not an underlying psychological disorder, then she's a product of her environment. Then she's a product of the way she was raised and what she was allowed to get away with. So to what you've been saying this entire time and to what a lot of people say, the reason we're looking at Casey Anthony through this lens and who she is today, all these videos and audio and the stories, there's no justification for it where she should have been on medication for it.

She's just a shitty person. And a lot of that was from the parental skills that were, or lack thereof throughout her childhood that allowed her to get away with these things. And she wasn't taught right from wrong. So that's my takeaway. Blame the parents for a lot of this. You know, there are some things you can't control, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. I thought there would be a mental illness associated with it. And if you're to believe this one doctor, which we will say, you know, very subjective,

you could have two other doctors examine her as well and both diagnose her with some type of disorder. But if you're going to take this one at face value. But it's two, two doctors who said the same thing. All right. So two doctors saying the same thing. Well, then what is it? Well, it's what she was taught. It's how she was raised. I mean, either way you slice it, it's not good. No, that means there's no fixing it. No, there's no fixing it. Exactly. and as far as she would have to have a a breakdown to have killed kate i don't know about they both said that they both were like she was a good mother there's no reason we can see why she would have done this like they kind of lost me that she was a she was a good mother but

i mean you know from all the reports from everybody who knew her, she was a good mother. Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Never even raised her voice to Kaylee. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, I guess. I mean, yeah. We don't know. So we can't have the opinion. But from everything, there's not one person.

And you think by now, right? Somebody had seen her even raise her hand to Kaylee or yell at her or use like derogatory language with her. That person would have come out by now. Yeah, I think that's fair. So on October 14th, 2008, a grand jury heard the evidence against Casey Anthony, and within two hours, they came back with the decision. First-degree murder, aggravated child abuse,

aggravated manslaughter of a child, and four counts of providing false information to law enforcement. Now remember, this is the grand jury, so this isn't the jury that would later find her not guilty. This is a grand jury. And we talked about it in the John Benet Ramsey case. Sometimes the police and the DA, they will bring a case to a grand jury just to sort of see what will happen. And this is all kept very secret. When this is happening, Casey wouldn't have known about it. Cindy and George wouldn't have known about it. Nobody would know about it besides those people involved. Her pre-trial date was scheduled for the following

December, but before her actual trial would even begin, meter reader Roy Kronk was back in that swampy area on Suburban Drive. And when he saw that the suspicious gray bag and whitish object that looked like a skull was still there, he moved into action. Within hours, everyone watching their television would see the breaking news. The remains of Kaylee Anthony had been found less than half a mile from the home of the Anthony family. And that's where we're going to end today. When we come back next time for what I believe to be our final episode, we're going to go over the trial and we're going to talk about how Jose Baez, Casey Anthony and her defense team basically tried to shut down all the physical evidence.

And hopefully by doing that, we'll have a better understanding of how the jury could come back with a not guilty verdict. Yeah, I have nothing to add. I mean, it's a good spot to end it. We'll end it next week. We'll end it next week. It's a good spot to end it now. We'll end it next week. Hopefully. It might be a long episode. No, not us. Yeah. Longer than usual, maybe, because there's going to be a lot to fit in, you know, and we're also going to have our final opinions and stuff.

I wish we could just do 10 parts of this because there's enough for 10 parts. But I think Derek's running out of energy. No, I mean, listen, it's one of those things where you got to go through it the right way. You want to be thorough. And we're building our own catalog so that people can say, you should cover Casey. Well, we did. We covered that case. In 55 parts, yeah. Yeah. I do think there's a point where anybody who's in the podcast space, we've been covering it for almost two months now. And if you think about it right now, and I'm not complaining here, but we're at six parts and we're over 12 hours of recording, of recording that you've seen,

not the recording that we do, the edited version. We're over 12 hours. That's not including any research that you've done, Stephanie, research I've done. It's just a lot of Casey, Anthony, more than I care to remember. So you do, I think, get a little fatigued by it, but we're in the home stretch. We're good. We're going to finish strong. Yeah. I mean, I could just talk about this case for 100 hours. It's so just riveting to me. You're constantly going through it and trying to find some logic, trying to find the place where it all falls together. And you're like, that's why she did that. Or that's why they did that. And it just never, never pops up. So it's very riveting. And there's so much to look into. And because we have so much, I mean, we have all the police

reports, all the evidence and everything that was collected during this case is available to anyone who knows how to find it. And that's why it's, you know, somebody made a comment on our last YouTube video and they were like, Stephanie doesn't have access to it. Yes, I do. I have access to all the police reports. Everyone does. Anyone does. The Sunshine Law, man.

As soon as that stuff was released, media outlets were posting it. There's PDFs of everything, all over Scribd. I mean, the stuff's all there if you know how to find it. So yes, I do. I have access to all that stuff. You guys do, too. So just keep that in mind as we go through this.

That's that's all. Oh, I think it was that the police hadn't checked the Anthony's cell phone, like George and Cindy's cell phone records. I don't think that they did because it's not anywhere in any of the police records. They do say, and we say in law enforcement, if it's not in the report, it didn't happen. Now, when we brought that part up, I'm not going to dispute it. If it's not in there, it's not in there. Based on the detectives and how you've described them, I think it would be damn near impossible for them not to get their phone records. It was so long after though. They don't keep that stuff for that long is what I'm trying to say. So they might have tried to get it and only to be told by Verizon or Sprint, like we don't have this stuff anymore. It's been

over a month or it's been two months. They don't keep your phone records for longer than a month? They can't. I mean, you're the Verizon. I'm not going to. I mean, I know for Verizon and that because I worked there and I had many angry customers come in and, you know, wanting to know what was my who was my daughter talking to on this day because of this, this and this. And I'd call Verizon and they well, they can't they can't keep all this stuff. They don't have unlimited space and they have a lot of people who have phone service with them. So they keep it for a short amount of time and then and then they they have to get rid of it. I'm not going to argue with you because I never but I and then they they have to get rid of it i'm not going to argue with you because i never but i i would think they would have it longer than that but

damn if that's that's a very short period of time i would think you'd be able to hold hold on at least six months six months to a year you would you would be able to see like for instance who they had talked to you know and and especially now with technology and stuff you have like the my verizon app where you can go in and look at like your cell phone records, but they wouldn't be able to pull like GPS and stuff, which is what we were concerned about. We wanted to know if George was home at a certain time, when he left, when he got to work, things like that. Yeah, I would think that the longitude and latitude would be tied to the calls. But, you know, I'm not again, I'm not no expert and I'm not going to sit here and speculate. But, you know but it's possible. But if it's possible it wasn't there, but if it was there, I would like to think these

investigators would have at least did it. But to everything you're researching, it's not in the report. How are you going to speak on it if it's not there? And it's not in any of the books that, you know, I've read four different books written by four different people on this case and it's not anywhere in those books. So if it was there, it wasn't relevant, I guess, enough to bring up ever anywhere. So let's end it here because it is almost one o'clock in the morning. We've been recording since 830, and that's how it is every week. And we will see you guys next week. So until then, Derek, why don't you take us out?

All right. Until then, you know you guys can find us, right? Crime Weekly Pod for all our social media, crimeweeklypodcast.com for, you know, if you want to check out information about us. There's not a ton on there. You can leave a speak pipe if you want. Also Patreon, if you want to sign up for Patreon, it's patreon.com slash crimeweekly. Appreciate you guys checking us out. Bye. See you next week.