Crime Weekly - S2 Ep65: DeOrr Kunz Jr.: Camping Trip Gone Wrong (Part 1)

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

It is every parent’s worst nightmare. You take your eyes off your child for a moment, maybe two, and when you turn around, they have vanished. Fortunately, thanks to technological advances and improved search methods, most of these children come home. But when two year old DeOrr Kunz Jr went missing in the Summer of 2015 from a campground in Idaho, he vanished without a trace, literally. A thorough search using police dogs, divers, helicopters, and hundreds of people on foot could not retrieve one trace of little DeOrr, it was as if he had never been there at all. Some wonder if he could have fallen victim to one of the hungry wild animals that prowl the remote wilderness, others believe he could have been abducted by a stranger with dark intentions, but many wonder if what actually happened is much more dark and nefarious than an animal attack, or even a targeted kidnapping. Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy Alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking, and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy Alliance today. It is every parent's worst nightmare. You take your eyes off your child for a moment, maybe two, and when you turn around, they have vanished. Fortunately, thanks to technological advances and improved search methods, most of these

children come home. But when two-year-old Dior Coons Jr. went missing in the summer of 2015 from a campground in Utah, he vanished without a trace, literally. A thorough search using police dogs, divers, helicopters, and hundreds of people on foot could not retrieve one trace of little Dior. It was as if he had never been there at all. Some wonder if he could have fallen victim to one of the hungry wild animals that prowl the remote wilderness. Others believe he could have been abducted by a stranger with dark intentions. But many wonder if what actually happened is much

more dark and nefarious than an animal attack or even a targeted kidnapping. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. All right. So today we are covering the Dior Coons Jr. case. And I'm so excited. The disappearance of Dior Coons Jr. has become a puzzle that everyone wants to solve. There have been multiple law enforcement agencies on this case, and the case has garnered national attention across legacy media and social media.

Like I've personally been asked to talk about Dior on my own YouTube channel several times for years. And I remember when I first started looking into it a few years back, it actually hurt my head because it's a puzzle, but it's like one of those knockoff puzzles that you buy from Amazon and it shows up with like three or four pieces missing and you don't figure that out until you've already spent hours carefully putting it together. But if I'm being honest,

this case is more like getting a puzzle with all the pieces, but the pieces change as time goes on. They change in color and shape. They change in size and design. And I think we can all admit it would be very difficult to complete this puzzle, to get the full picture of the puzzle when the pieces don't stay the same and they no longer fit together. So I finally decided that I did want to talk about this case. You know, I do. And I would like to talk about it with you because you not only have the law enforcement experience, but I can personally say that I think your instincts about people are very good. And you've allowed me to see various scenarios and situations from other cases that we've talked

about in a way that I would really never have thought to view them before. And in a case like this, that's very important because it's easy to get caught up in like all the mystery and sort of lose the forest through the trees. No, I'm looking forward to it. Thank you for the compliment. And full disclosure for you guys, we know you like this format where Stephanie's kind of going over the case and I'm weighing in with natural reactions as the information is being delivered. On this particular case, I have zero clue. He knows absolutely nothing. And I'm so pumped because I think that as we go through it, you're going to have questions and they're going to be the exact questions, the exact right questions to ask.

Yeah. I have zero clue. I made sure I got the pronunciation of the yours name right before we did this because this is my first time hearing about it. So it will be different. I can't believe you've never heard about it. Never heard about it. I have my own cases I'm working and obviously you're in this realm where you're constantly diving into these cases.

So there's a lot of people that need help out there. There's a lot of mysteries out there. And this name, when you said it, to be honest, it didn't even ring a bell. So I have truly never heard of this individual. Well, I'm excited to dive in. And I told you earlier today when we were talking, I was like, I can't wait to talk about it with you because obviously obviously I'm a human being. So I have my own opinions and my own thoughts. And I'll admit my own biases about this case. And I'm looking forward to sort of

not necessarily having you level me off because I do truly believe that at the end of it, when we go over everything, you might end up feeling the same way that I do. And to me, that's going to be validation. It's going to be the validation that I need and I desperately want. But we may end up even after going through this, I may end up feeling differently after talking to you. So who knows? You may talk me off a ledge like you do sometimes. Hey, listen, we agreed on Kaylee, but I guess that's not much of a surprise, right? That's really not a good example. It's like saying everybody loves ice cream. Yeah, that's fair. Although I am lactose intolerant, I still love a good ice cream. Are you lactose intolerant? Yep. Learn something new every day. It doesn't stop me. Really?

I'll crush a milkshake. I'm saying, you're always eating ice cream, man. Yeah. You know, that's not good. Yeah. No, it's not. Stephanie, you're right. Do you have medication that you take to keep it like in check?

I'm sure. I'm sure I do. But you don't take it. No, no, no, no, no. So maybe the ice cream comparison wasn't the best for you. Listen, like I said, I love ice cream just like the guy next to me. I'll crush an ice cream. I'm not one to turn it away.

I do love a chocolate milkshake. I don't discriminate. Strawberry, chocolate, vanilla, Oreo. Oreo. The peanut butter ones. Damn. Never met a milkshake I didn't like. All right.

All right. Let's dive in. I'm excited. Guys, if you're listening on audio, remember we do have a YouTube channel as well. We're going to be going over a lot of clips from the case and from news articles and from interviews and things. So they are going to be, you know, you're going to be able to hear them. But I think a lot of times it's also important to like see the people as they're talking. So after you listen to this, if you want to head over to YouTube, the episode will be up, you know, what, probably five days from now. The episode on YouTube will be out next Wednesday for once we get approved by YouTube for patrons.

It'll be out on Sunday. Yeah. So if you go over after you've listened to this and you want to see these interviews in person and you want to kind of get a better understanding. Also, there's going to be footage of the campsite and things. You can check that out. Or if you just want to go over to YouTube and subscribe and give us a shout out and also let us know what you think about this case in the comments because that's not, you know, easy to do on podcast listening platforms.

So go ahead and do that and let's dive in. Dior Coons Jr. was an adorable two-year-old boy with sandy blonde hair, blue eyes, and one of those cute little baby smiles that makes you wonder how like anyone could ever be mad at him or tell him no. He just had the adorable, like most adorable little squishy face. He was born on December 30th, 2012 in Idaho Falls, Idaho. And despite his young age, Dior seemed to be a child that was filled with personality. He was always happy, always trying to make other people happy by dancing around and making silly faces. His mother, Jessica Mitchell, would say that he was just starting to get to that fun age where he was becoming more engaged with the world around him

and she and Dior's father, Vernal, had started teaching their son how to ride his little tricycle. Dior was also very close to his parents, especially his mother. Jessica said that she was with him every single day and he was her best friend and others described Dior as being very attached to Jessica, with his grandmother Tina saying, quote, you could sit him in his room and he would be content as long as his mommy was nearby. Even at my house, if his mom had to go to the store, it was tough for him. End quote. According to Jessica Mitchell, Dior also loved being outside, going on adventures, and he especially loved camping. So when his family planned a camping trip to the Salmon Chalice National Forest, about 120 miles away from Idaho Falls, little Dior was very excited to be included.

Besides Dior Jr., four other people would be going along on the camping trip. His mother, Jessica Mitchell, who was 26 years old in 2015. His father, Vernal Dior Koons, who was also 26 years old. Jessica and Vernal were not married at the time. They were engaged to be married, but they weren't married at that moment. Also on the trip was Jessica's 76-year-old grandfather. His name was Robert Walton, and Jessica had been his primary caregiver for the last six months as his health was not doing well, and Bob was on oxygen at the time. Bob had also invited along a friend of his, 35-year-old Isaac Rainwand. Although Bob and Isaac had known each other for five years, this would be the first time that Isaac had ever met Jessica,

Vernal, or little Dior. As I said, this is a tough case to cover, and the reason for that is because the stories of those involved do a lot of changing and evolving. When I say stories, I don't just mean what was told to law enforcement, but what was told to the media in the days, weeks, months, and years following Dior's disappearance, as well as what was told to two separate private investigators who were brought onto this case by the family. The two media outlets that covered this case the most extensively were KTVB out of Boise, Idaho and East Idaho News, specifically Nate Eaton, who is best known for his extensive coverage during the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell saga that occurred a few years ago. And I actually saw Nate Eaton discuss Dior's

case at CrimeCon last year. Was it like last summer already? It's been a whole year. Yeah. Yeah. It's coming up quick. CrimeCon 22 coming up in a couple months. Yeah. And Nate even talked about Dior's case on stage. I made sure that I was there because, like I said, this case is fascinating to me. And Nate's been on it pretty much since the beginning. And he was actually the first person to interview Dior's parents, Jessica and Vernal, just a few days after their son went missing. So I know it's a little early

to take a break, but we are launching into the timeline next and it's not going to give us an opportunity to really break through that. So we're going to take our first break now. Don't be mad at us because I promise there's a lot of interesting stuff coming. All right, so we're back. The first time we go through the timeline, I'm going to be telling you the official narrative that is the most often reported, that was initially reported. So the family decided at the last minute to go on a camping trip to the Timber Creek Campground, which is located about 10 miles from Lador, Idaho in Leimhi County. There's a few things you need to understand about this area. First of all, it's incredibly remote. Leimhi County in general is very mountainous and rugged.

There aren't a lot of paved roads. And the town of Ledor looks as if it's been frozen in time for the last 100 years. There's no shopping malls, no trendy restaurants, not even a Walmart. Now from Ledor, you would drive like an additional, you know, 30 to 45 minutes to reach the Timber Creek campground. And most of that would be on an unpaved, very rocky road. Now those who have traveled this road claim that a normal vehicle, you know, like a car, a sedan, it wouldn't make it. You'd have to be driving a sports utility vehicle or a four-wheel truck,

and there's only one road that leads into or out of the campground. A quick question for you here, because you're kind of given all the context, right? For everybody who doesn't know this case, people like me, and whenever you start these cases, I try to write down as fast as I can all the names, all the players in the case, because I'm sure many of them are going to come up later. And so we have the obvious players, mom, dad, grandma, grandpa. You said something about Bob. He's grandpa, right? Bob Walton. Isn't that funny? Like the Waltons. But you said his health was declining. He was in rough shape at this point, right? Yes. Yes. Very.

So why the need for a friend, Isaac? Because I feel like Isaac's going to come into the equation later because it's weird that he's there. Maybe not. But why did he come? So we'll get deeper into it later, but I'm going to set a little stage for you. It seemed like Isaac used to do, they used to live in the same neighborhood, Bob and Isaac. So Isaac would come over because there's a big age difference, right? Like Bob's in his 70s, Isaac's in his 30s. Right. Which is I'm like, why? Why is he there? How does he fit in? So there is some speculation that Isaac may have some mental issues going on. And you can see in certain interviews, he seems very innocent. He seems very naive. He seems very easily pliable, sort of, you know, like like he has a young mind.

And it looks like they lived in the same neighborhood for a while, Bob and Isaac. Isaac would come over and do some like weeding for Bob and like help him out, odd jobs, things like that. And the two kind of just, I guess, became friends and they'd go like fishing together. And, you know, like I said, we'll get into it more. But Bob said at one point, like he would bring Isaac with him on these things because at his age, it's nice to have someone there if you like keel over, you know. So I guess somebody there to help out if he needs it. He's an older guy, but he still wants to be active. He still wants to be on the move. And Isaac was there just as like a helper slash friend, I guess. A caregiver a little bit like an unpaid caregiver. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, an unpaid caregiver. Basically, but someone who could help him if there's a tough terrain. I get it. I just wanted to see if there was anything else that we weren't hitting that would explain why this gentleman was

there, but it sounds pretty innocent at this point. So that was all I had. So we're going to play a quick clip, and this is of Nate Eaton actually driving that very rocky, very rough road that I was talking about. We're getting bounced all over the place. You can see that it is not paved. There's rocks everywhere. And you would really need to be in an all-terrain vehicle or an SUV to even get to where the family was camping. So the camping site itself is very basic. I'm not a camper to begin with. I don't like camping. No. No, I don't. Didn't see that one. I've only been once and I didn't like it. I don't understand. And listen, I'm not judging anybody, but I don't understand why anybody would choose to sleep on the ground. To become one with nature, Stephanie.

Yeah, I guess. I mean, I don't really have any desire to do that either. It's just not my thing. I like to go hotel camping, you know, to like get away from real life and just hang out in a hotel room in a robe, you know, with a face mask on. Would you do glamping? Glamping? No, probably not. Do you know what glamping is?

Yeah, like you're outside fancy camping, but you're still outside where like bugs are. You're outside, but there are bathrooms, there's showers. There's like a cabin. Yeah, I mean, bugs are everywhere. So that would be a thing in the woods. Okay, so it's a no. We'll just, guys, it's a no. I'm going to pass.

She's not coming camping on the crime weekly trip that we do where we go away, talk about podcasts around a campfire, talk about cases. And then someone gets murdered because that's what happens when people go into the woods where they don't belong and crazy things happen, like bears just swat them with their big paws or some crazy series. I mean, have you never heard of Missing 411? Come on. Nope. Nope. Haven't heard of it. It's like thousands of people go missing in national parks every year and they disappear in the national parks because they don't follow the same rules of man. They don't even report these people missing. They have no record of how many

people go missing. It's insane. You got to look it up. I'll have to look that up. And then you won't want to go camping. She won't be on the retreat, guys. Stephanie's out. I suggest you guys do not go either. That'd not be kind of cool if it was like a mystery retreat, like with tents and stuff. Come on. I know you wouldn't do it, but that would be kind of cool. This just came to me. I mean, I might, I might do it. That would be cool. I'd be so, I'd be so miserable. Campfire, marsh s'mores. All right. I don't want to get too off the, but you know, it would be cool. Ghost stories. Yeah. I mean, but real story. I mean, it would be good. I think that'd be cool. Ghost stories are real stories, Derek. Well, I'm not talking about fictional stories. We can talk about mysteries,

kind of like crowd solve while we're around the fire. Okay. Okay. I just hear you just said ghosts aren't real. All right. So I'm not a camper, but I definitely would not go to this campsite because it is like the most basic of basic campsites. There's no bathrooms, no showers, no trailer hookups, no electricity hookups. There isn't even a parking lot. It's just like a small plot of land with like one or two picnic tables, a couple fire pits, and it's just surrounded by mountains on all sides. And then it's kind of bordered by this small creek. So it's like I said, surrounded by the mountains, there's one road going in, one road going out. That's it. And I mean, it's the kind of place you go if you really want to

be off the grid. You know, there's really no people around. The cell phone service is spotty at best. You got to really like, you're really roughing it. You can't even go out there in like a normal car. So it's pretty much they're saying like, we don't want you here if you don't have four wheel drive. And that's odd because Vernal told People magazine, like, several years later that he hated camping. So for someone who hates camping, that was a strange spot to choose. Now, there were two different reasons given for this last-minute camping trip. Initially, Vernal had claimed that the trip was planned to celebrate his fiancée Jessica holding a steady job.

And in an interview with a private investigator, he said, quote, Jessica is not known to keep a job long. And the fact that she even had this one for six months was because of Bob and she enjoyed taking care of him. End quote. But Jessica's mother and Bob's daughter, Tina, she claimed that the trip had been a way for Bob to relive his days of camping when he was younger. Tina said that Bob had always talked about his good memories of Timber Creek and he'd brought her there when she was a kid. And now that he was getting older and sicker, he wanted to bring his granddaughter, Jessica, there. Tina said that the plans moved forward so quickly because that was Bob's personality. That was how he was.

When he decided he wanted to do something, he wanted to do it right away. So the trip had to be put together very quickly and everyone sort of had to go along with it. Makes sense. I can see that happening. You know, he kind of sees he's on the back nine and wants to, you know, experience that with his granddaughter before, you know, he gets too unable to do that. Yeah. And to be fair, you know, this is often pointed out as one of the changing stories or like different people in the party having different stories, but they could have been there for both reasons, right? Like true. Good point. Bob says, I want to take a camping trip.

I want to bring you to a place. I had a lot of fun when I was a kid, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, Jessica worked for him. The reason she had that job for six months was because of him. So it could have been a thing where they were like, yeah, and we'll celebrate, you know, the fact that Jessica's held on to a job for half a year. This is going to be great. Like, we'll kill two birds with one stone kind of thing, right? It could have been both reasons. Yeah, seems innocent.

So the group left Idaho Falls in two vehicles. They were following each other. Little Dior drove with his mother and father, and Bob drove with his friend, Isaac Rainwand. They left around 6 p.m., and about an hour later, they stopped to fill a tire on Bob's camper with air. By 8.30 p.m., the group had arrived in Lidor, and they claimed they tried to eat at the Silver Dollar restaurant, but it was closed. So instead, they headed over to the Stage Stop convenience store to get some snacks and supplies before making the rough and rugged trip out to the campsite. They arrived at Timber Creek as it was getting dark, most likely just after 9 p.m., and according to Isaac Rainwand, he helped start a fire and then everyone went to bed because it was so late. Now, this is another thing. This is something that I just kind of noticed over the

last couple of days as I was listening to interviews. The normal time that they give, like when Isaac Rainwand was asked, what time did you guys get there? He said, you know, it was dark. And sometimes he would say like it was getting dark. But when Nate Eaton talked about it at CrimeCon, he said they didn't get there till midnight, which is confusing because the normal narrative, like the initial story was that they got there around like nine, nine thirty as it was getting dark. It was late and they went to bed. So I'm not sure if he just misspoke or, you know, what, because he has been in close contact with the family and he was the first person to interview them and he interviewed like everybody on this case. So I wonder what that was about. That's a big discrepancy.

That's a big discrepancy, right? That's a big window. And my initial thought without doing any research into it myself would be that Nate might be wrong. I would like to think they wouldn't be off by three or four hours. Three hours. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, also on the other hand, it could be that their time changed as they spoke to other people because they were trying to still figure it out. There's a lot that can be taken from it, but whenever you have someone who is there give a time, if they're believed to be innocent and not guilty of anything, they would

have no reason to lie. But that is a big window. Three hours is a big time window where you have to wonder why is it so far off? Yeah. And they left Idaho Falls at six, right? So it's not going to take six hours. Would you say 45 minutes? No, 45 minutes from Lidor to the campsite, about an hour and a half from Idaho Falls to Lidor. They had to stop for the tire. But that's not six hours. No. No. No. So it does seem like it would be more in line with nine. Yes. So they started a fire and then they went to bed, which I also don't get. Why would you start a fire right before you go to bed? Is that a camping thing? Do you just leave the fire burning all night for warmth or something? No, you should never leave a fire unattended. That's from my old days as a Boy Scout. No, I'm kidding. I don't know. No, is it really? Do you not leave

the fire? It feels dangerous, right? I would never leave a fire unattended because what if it, you know, usually I'm in like the tire iron where you have like the fire inside the metal ring, but I always get concerned like a piece of wood could fall out, catch the grass. And so, you know, you don't want to be, you know. Waking up a burning tent or be responsible for a wildfire, a forest fire, like Smokey the bear always warned us about. When you think about it, a lot of these fires that take out entire communities are because of some idiot in the woods who causes a small fire and it's so dry and hot out there, it spreads quickly. So I think that is a little odd. Maybe could it be a little bit of confusion on that farm? Maybe they had a fire

for a little bit and then they put it out before bed. Am I jumping ahead here? So the way they made it seem is that they didn't even have time to set up the campsite. They didn't have time to set the tents up or anything like that. So I don't understand if you don't have time to set the tents up, why are you making a fire? Maybe for light so they could get around and move around, I guess. That's possible. So from my experience on one of my favorite shows, I would tell you that on Naked and Afraid, they always have a fire, but someone's watching it all night. But the reason you do it is to create some smoke, which sometimes causes mosquitoes to stay away. And then also you would put that in an area where it would scare away larger animals because obviously they're afraid of fire. So it kind

of protects you. But in a campground setting, I don't know how advantageous that would be. That's a very open, very wild campground area. Yeah. I don't know if one little fire in the middle is going to protect you. So I don't have an answer for it. But naked and afraid never lies. So they do keep fires going all night. But again, someone's monitoring. Naked and afraid. They can't lie.

They have nothing to hide. They have no way to hide it. One of the best shows on TV. But that's a side note. Can you imagine? I don't want to go camping and I certainly do not want to go camping completely naked.

Too many things can crawl and spaces. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I don't know. These people are brave. Which is why I love the show, which is why I love it, because they are- They're hardcore too. Yeah. Different level. So Isaac slept in a tent. I guess he was able to put one tent up so he could sleep in it. Bob slept in his camper and Dior Jr. and his parents slept in the back of Bob's blue blazer. The next morning when they all woke up, they shared a breakfast of eggs, sausage and hash browns.

Oh, it sounds so good right now. So good. Right? And Isaac remembered Dior being there as they ate. Dior was wearing his favorite shoes, a pair of cowboy boots that were at least two sizes

too big for him, and Isaac said he was clumping around the campsite. Isaac said, quote, he was playing and trying to throw stuff in the fire. His dad got after him for it, but he was just like a normal two-year-old, end quote. At some point that morning, around 10.30 a.m. or 11 a.m., Jessica claims that she unexpectedly got her period, and she told Vernal that they needed to go into town so that she could get feminine products. I don't, this is like suspicious to me because, listen, as a woman, you do not unexpectedly get your period, okay? Now, there could have been a medical issue there. There could have been something going on. But if there is, she hasn't said. I like to think that adult women typically keep track of these things because so much can go wrong. You don't want to be out in

the middle of nowhere like Jessica is and have that happen. It will attract the bears. It will. I mean, I'm in no position to debate you on this or talk, but is it possible that she might have thought it was going to be a day or two later, which I don't know how long they were planning on spending out at that campsite. It was just a long weekend. So a couple of days. Yeah. I mean, maybe she thought I could probably, it might not be till Sunday. I could be okay. And we'll be back heading to town. Is that possible? Or am I speaking out of turn here? Everyone's different. Okay. Everyone's different. But I will tell you, if I think that it's coming in like a seven day period and I'm leaving the house, I'm going to be prepared.

Because I don't want to be caught unawares. Okay. Yeah. And like I said, it could be a medical thing. It could be something going on. If there is, she's never said, which, you know, she's entitled to not say. That's her private stuff. But something to note.

And, you know, what I take from this is 830. They're having breakfast and Dior is walking around in boots that are two sizes too big for him. And then around 10.30, 11, so it's only a two, two and a half hour window, Jessica comes up with the situation. She needs to go into town with Vernal. Yes. So Vernal, Jessica, and little Dior, they all got into Vernal's truck and they drove into Lador where Vernal stopped to get gas, at which point he claims he spoke with an employee there. The family then went to the Stage Shop convenience store to pick up the things that Jessica needed, and there is a receipt to support this purchase, which shows the time of checkout was 1230 p.m.,

and there was like sanitary pads bought, there was some candy, snacks, things like that. Question, do we know what type of candy was bought? I do, but I don't have it on me. Why? That's okay. I'm just wondering if, you know, would it, was it more, could it have been candy specific that we find out later that Dior liked? I believe it was candy for Dior. And, you know, apparently Jessica bought him French fries when she was at the stage shop convenience store too. Cause you know, you've seen these like small town sort of like convenience stores. They have, you know, regular stuff like aspirinin snacks but they also sometimes have a little counter we can get hot dogs fries things like that especially out in the middle of nowhere like

that super convenient to get something in your stomach especially if you're hungry um but i'm just wondering like you know is there something there to represent that at that point dior was still with them and that he they might have been purchasing something for him. Also, any, I think I know the answer to this, but cameras, cameras at either of these locations? No cameras. Okay. Figured. Okay. So at 12.38 PM, Jessica texted her mother, Tina, and told her they were headed back to camp. And according to Jessica and Vernal, they got back to Timber Creek at about 1 PM. And that is when the stories of the individuals, they begin to branch off. It's worth noting, even though Jessica and Vernal. They got back to Timber Creek at about 1 p.m. and that is when the stories of the individuals, they begin to branch off. It's worth noting, even though Jessica and Vernal

claimed that Dior was with them on the evening of July 9th and the morning of July 10th, no one in Lidor remembers seeing the couple with a young child. And there's one interview that Jessica gives, or it might have been on Facebook because she was like very active on Facebook after her son's disappearance, you know, arguing with people, answering them, things like that, where she said that Dior was sort of like running up and down the aisles and, you know, the women who worked there thought he was cute, things like that. All of these people have been spoken to and nobody remembers seeing him there. I can see where this is going already. And so you're telling me all these people that were interviewed in town, even though there weren't cameras,

July 9th was the day they drove down to the campground. And July 10th is the day that you're referring to when Jessica has the incident and she needs feminine products and they go back into town. Yeah. So they were in Ledoer on the 9th, right before they went to the campsite and they apparently stopped at the convenience know, the convenience store. And no one remembers seeing Dior then. And they don't remember seeing him on July 10th either. And I mean, this is a small town. I think there's like 500 people that live there.

This is literally a town that looks like it just stopped, like changing in the 1920s. So it seems like maybe someone would remember like a cute little boy running around but who knows and that's what you're saying right they're not even saying dior stayed in the vehicle jessica and vernal are saying he know not only was he with us but he was outside the car in the convenience store where other people would have seen him is that on both days both the 9th and the 10th i'm not sure about the 9th but definitely the 10th The tenth. For sure. Yeah. Which would be more important, right? Because if he's there on the tenth, he was there on the ninth. Right. Any idea how many people gave these statements saying, listen, we didn't see any child, but we did see them? I don't know. This is very strange. The way the police have these like police

reports and things like that haven't been released and they are keeping it close to the chest because it's still fairly new yeah and i think that there's eventually going to be you know or they want there to be possibly charges brought against someone so they're they're probably keeping all the details but they did confirm you know that nobody that they had talked to had seen dior that day so no it's good it's good to know because if nobody's seen him on the 9th then there's a potential that every person you've mentioned so far is lying. Like this could be some big conspiracy where the grandparents, the parents, the friend, they're all in on it. If he wasn't with them on the night, because they've all, they've all given testimony. Yeah. Right. Yeah. He definitely wasn't with them on the 10th,

but you have Isaac and all these people saying, hey, this is all the things that happened that night. Dior was in the blue blazer where he slept, the campground, all these little details that may not be true. But that's interesting. That's interesting that, like you said, nobody would remember this child in an area where they probably don't get a ton of visitors. They don't get a ton of people, right? You would think. Yeah. Outside of locals, you know? Yeah. So you see a different face, you're going to remember it. Especially a kid like running around the store. Yep. So back at the campsite, Isaac Rainwand claims that after breakfast that morning, he'd gone back into his tent and fallen asleep. And when he woke up around noon, Bob took him to see like different fishing

holes and fishing areas near the campsite where Bob himself had been lucky with catching fish in the past. When Dior and his parents got back to camp, Bob suggested that Isaac show them where the fishing areas were, and they all began walking up a nearby hill into the woods. Isaac claims that he was walking with Jessica, and Vernal and Dior were right behind them. Vernal claimed that the adults had wanted to explore, and Dior had begun following them on foot. So Vernal turned and asked Dior, you know, do you want to come with us or do you want to stay with Grandpa Bob, who was still at the campsite sitting next to the fire? And Dior had been playing near him before they'd started walking away. Now, according to his parents, Dior didn't say anything. He just turned and began walking back towards Bob.

In a later interview, Jessica would say, quote, I remember asking my grandpa, are you sure you're okay with it? And he said, yeah, it's fine. He wants candy. And I said, okay. When my grandpa said he would watch him, I was all for it. I was excited. And that kills me because it was my idea.

Like, yeah, I want to go fishing. End quote. Vernal, Jessica,, yeah, I want to go fishing. End quote. Vernal, Jessica, and Isaac, they didn't go far. The area that they ended up at was only about 50 yards away from the campsite. And although Vernal and Jessica gave different answers when asked how long they were gone, there really shouldn't have been a huge concern since this campsite was so insular. Vernal said that he thought it was going to be the perfect place to camp because it was completely enclosed by mountains and there weren't many places for Dior to wander off to

besides that main road leading in and there was no other way to get out. And there was a small creek very near the campsite which was down a steep embankment but the creek wasn't very deep at all, just about like knee level and it would have been very difficult for two-year-old Dior to navigate his way down to it. This is the campsite where Dior and his

family were camping. It looks like your average campsite. You've got a fire pit, a picnic table, very close to the creek that we have heard so much about. In fact, the creek is just here a few yards away. Notice the terrain down to the water. It's very steep. It would be difficult for a young child to make their way down that hill. It is possible, but again, it is a steep hill. So let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and talk a little bit more about this. Okay, so we're back from break. That video was really helpful. Definitely gives you a better perspective of what we're dealing with.

The videos and photos always help. You have your own visualizations of like what you're talking about, what it looks like to you. It's always going to be different than what it really is. This is going deep, but any clue based on witness testimony, if Dior was still wearing these boots that were two sizes too big for him at this point. He was, yeah. Okay. So that would line up with that video we just saw where, let's say for a second, he had sneakers that fit properly. That would still be a very difficult hill for a small child to go down and not fall and then also get back up. Yeah. Two-year-old, a two-year-old. A two-year-old now adding the fact that they had boots on

that clearly didn't fit them. And they, as you described earlier, clunking around in them, just walking on flat ground. So a recipe for disaster right there in and of itself. Well, Jessica claimed they'd only been gone about five minutes. Vernal said it was more like 15 to 20. But either way, Vernal said that during this exploring adventure, he had spotted some minnows that he thought Dior would like to 20. But either way, Vernal said that during this exploring adventure, he had spotted some

minnows that he thought Dior would like to see, so he went back to camp to get the boy and bring him back to see the minnows. When Vernal was approaching the camp, he saw Grandpa Bob sitting by the fire, but he did not see little Dior anywhere. Vernal claims he shouted to Bob, asking him where Dior was, and Bob responded that he thought Dior was with him. In a later interview, Jessica said that Bob told them Dior had been sitting by a tree, and he hadn't been able to tell if Dior was playing in the dirt or looking at his shoe. And allegedly, Bob had told her that he couldn't remember if he had dozed off or lost track of time. So obviously, once again, these are vastly different stories, right? Vernal claims that Bob said he thought Dior was with his parents, but Jessica claims that

Bob told her he'd seen Dior playing by a tree and then he might have dozed off or lost track of time. And Jessica said that she specifically talked to Bob and said, like, are you sure you're OK with this? And Bob was like, yeah, absolutely. And now Bob's like, oh, I thought he was with you. And we're going to we're going to talk about Bob's claims later on specifically. Does Bob dispute that? Does Bob dispute the first part as far as, hey, listen, Jessica did ask me if it was okay. And I said, yeah,

he can stay. He just wants candy. I got it. Is he disputing that that conversation even happened? So when asked about it, Bob kind of laughed and said, well, if that's what they said. I mean, how I haven't saw any interviews with Bob yet. I mean, is he really out of it at this point? Is he like, you know, mentally out of it? Yes. Like, does he seem like someone who wouldn't have a very good memory at this point? To me, he's, you know, definitely physically struggling. He seems sharp as a tack mentally, but that's just my opinion. All right. I haven't seen any, obviously, video of him, but I would think at this point, he would remember the first part of the conversation. And if that did happen,

well, then Dior would be with you then, right? At some point, it sounds to me, just at this point, more realistic to believe Jessica said, hey, is it cool if he stays with you, which I've done with my parents, you know, and they say, yeah, no problem. He just wants to stay here or she just wants to stay here. And then based on his physical condition, which you said was deteriorating, could he have passed out while sitting in a chair, listening to the, to the Creek? Absolutely. I'm 38 years old and I could do that, you know, just listening to the water. So that to me, just initial impressions seems more realistic at this point. Okay. So here's my question for you. Does it seem kind of like a cop-out answer when Bob's asked, like, did this happen? Did they ask you to watch him? And he responds, well, if that's what they said. Yeah. That seems weird. I don't know the guy. I don't know why he would respond like that when he knows why he's being asked that. It could also be that maybe he's not as sharp as

you think he is. And he's just really confused and struggling to remember what really happened. And just at this point, trying to give the same story because he knows that people are assuming something nefarious took place here. Okay. Also, let me ask you another question. Remember, Bob is not Jessica's father. He's her grandfather. He's pushing 80. He's on oxygen. Do you leave your two-year-old with him?

What if Dior did fall in the creek? How would Bob save him? How would Bob do anything to prevent anything bad from happening? Is this a person, not that he would hurt the kid on purpose, but is this a person that you feel safe leaving your kid with in a new place in the wilderness where there are sort of like hazards that could come into his path? Yeah. In hindsight, considering what we're talking about, no, probably not. But I could see how someone innocent could figure we're only going to be gone very quickly. I can see where he is. He's sitting in the chair. Dior is going to be right next to him. It's going to be fast.

A lot of parents do things that are victims of cases like this where in hindsight, they wish they didn't. So no, I get it. I get it. But I think they figured there's going to be a short time. What could happen? That's what they all say. What could happen? Yeah, that's absolutely true. I mean, not everybody is as paranoid as I am. As you. And I think you would, if you were in the moment, it's literally five minutes away. No, I would not. No. Okay. Well, fair enough. Now with my 76-year-old or 78-year-old grandpa who's on oxygen, because I'd be like,

exactly that. I'd say, what if, because it's a two-year-old, okay? Right. Yeah, we're not talking about a teenager. It's a baby or even like an eight or nine or ten-year-old we're not talking about. It's a two-year-old, you know? So I would be like, absolutely not because if my kid falls down this ravine into the creek, what the hell is Bob going to do? Like lug his oxygen tank, roll himself down the ravine into the creek and what? Like pull him out of the water?

No, Bob's going to be screwed if that happens. Those are the things that are coming through my head just on an everyday basis. I can affirm that is the case with you. So yeah, I think you are someone who is more cautious, which isn't a bad thing, by the way. It's stressful. It's who you are. Yeah, it does make life difficult sometimes because I'm a warrior too in a lot of ways. So I get it. You know, I mean, I walk into a room and I'm like, oh, where can my kid hurt themselves here? Or where can they escape? Or where can somebody come in and kidnap them?

So that it's stressful. If that is what happened, what a burden to carry, right? If he got, if you got kidnapped, you mean? Not even that he got kidnapped, but what if he fell in the creek? And, you know, Jessica said, like, I wanted to go fishing. She feels guilty about it because if she would have just said, no, you're coming with me. If that if everything's on the up and up, we're not you and I aren't sitting here talking about this case right now. Yeah.

So I'm sure what a burden for her to carry if everything's on the up and up. Oh, yeah, that would that would be something she'd carry forever. But you didn't end up in the creek. Oh, OK. All right. So when Jessica and Vernal sat down with Nate Eaton for their first interview, Vernal claimed that they immediately started looking for Dior, running around the campsite, checking vehicles, screaming his name, and they did this for about 20 minutes before they decided they needed to call the police. Vernal said that they knew it was not like Dior to wander off by himself. He did love to explore, but he was also

very attached to his parents, and he did not typically leave their side, especially in a strange place that he didn't know well. And that checks out because kids too, you know, kids still have that insecure attachment when they're two. They're still afraid of letting their parents out of their sight. They still have like this issue with object permanence. So that's very normal for a child at that age to not want to be away from his parents. When Dior went missing, he left behind three items that his parents claimed he never went anywhere without. The blanket that he had been brought home from the hospital in, his sippy cup, and his stuffed monkey. Dior's father Vernal told Nate Eaton, quote, all three have to be with him. He will trip over them if he has to, but they are going

with him. And this is the first time since he's been born pretty much that he has been without these things. End quote. I'm just sitting here thinking about my own personal experiences and I and and maybe many people out there that are watching or listening can relate to this. I've had that moment. It's usually only for like 20 seconds, but you lose your kid for like 10 or 20 seconds and your life literally leaves your body.

Yeah. And it's the worst feeling in the world. I've had it happen at like, you know, the Walmart or Target where you turn around and all of a sudden they took off to the next aisle and you didn't catch it. And I can't imagine what it's like to have that feeling. And then that sense of relief only tends to... I still want to cry as soon as I find them, but to have that feeling stick with you and get worse and get worse. And 20 minutes later, you're calling the police who are not right around the corner because you genuinely can't find your child. Unimaginable to be in that situation. It happened to me at an indoor water park in Canada with Aiden once. I'm

in a different country at an indoor water park. And he was gone. It was exactly as I described it. He was there. I turned around. He was gone. And I, I was a crazy person. Like the people. How long, how long would you, did you not know where he was for? Four minutes. But oh my God, even four minutes. The worst four minutes of my life because I was like freaking out. I was screaming. I was grabbing random strange kids and like turning them around because they had maybe the same color bathing suit that he had on. freaking out people were looking at me like i was nuts and i wanted to be like what are you looking at me like this for like if this was your kid you would hopefully be acting this way you know and it was so stressful like the the feeling like there's a balloon inflating in your stomach and and you're just gonna like throw up and die all at once so it was awful no that's that's an absolute literal nightmare yes um so So when Dior went missing, there were two calls placed to 911 on the afternoon of July 10th, 2015. According to Vernal and Jessica, they both called 911 that day. But Vernal, he was worried that he wouldn't get service on his cell phone and he didn't want to be cut off in the middle

of trying to get help for his son, so he got in his truck and he began driving down the road. Per his written statement, Vernal said that he started driving down the road looking at his phone until he saw that he had two bars of 3G service. At that point, he was about 1.5 miles from the camp and he slammed on his brakes so he could call 911. He said that he told them his son was missing, but he couldn't remember the name of the place they were camping at. But the 911 dispatcher told him not to worry because they were already talking to Jessica. They had their location and help was on the way. Now, Jessica had placed her 911 call from the campsite. So apparently she got service and we are going to play that 911 call for you right now.

Okay. What's the address of your emergency? I'm actually camping in Red Ore. Just outside of Red Ore. Uh-huh. My two-year-old son. We can't find him. What's your name?

Jessica. Jessica who? Mitchell. How long has he been missing? About an hour. An hour? Yeah. Are you by water?

Yes. Okay, stay on the phone with me, okay? Okay. I'm going to put you on hold. John? I need... Do you know which campground you're in? What?

Pardon me? It's Stone Reservoir, Timber Creek. Stone Reservoir? Yeah, for Timber Creek. Hold on. We need search and rescue. Jessica? Jessica? Yeah? What's your son's name? Borg. What is it?

B-O-R-R. What's his first name? That's his first name, B-O-R-R. B-O-R-R? B-O-R-R. B-O-R-R? O-R. Just O-R-R? Yeah, it's going to be a cat. We're working on it. It's an emergency, right? Okay. What is he wearing?

He was wearing cowboy boots, a blue, um, hair, like, pajamaama pants and a camel jacket. And he's got shaggy blonde hair. How tall is he? Hello? He is. I... I'm not exactly sure how... Are you there? I'm not exactly sure how to give it up. Colonel? Are you there?

Yeah. Okay. Is your husband calling too? Like, all down where we were camping at, and we can't find him at all. Okay. Hang on. Do you know how far outside of Leadore you are? What? It's the turnoff right after like the general store in the post office in Leadore and it's at Timber Creek. As you're going up over the pass? If you're in Leadore and you're at the gas station,

you take the street on the left-hand side right across the street from the gas station and go straight out that street. Is it a paved road? No. Okay. Is it a paved road? Um, no. Okay, if you're headed towards Leder, you take a right on the street across the street from the gas station. It would be a left. A left. Yeah.

And there's a sign that says like Timber Creek and something like that. Okay, and you're coming coming like from Idle Falls? Yeah. Okay. Hang on just a second. She said you take a left on the street just past the gas station as you're coming in from Idle Falls. And it says Timber Creek.

Yeah. I know where it is going. Okay. Okay. I'll make sure the kind of cell stands up. Okay, we need you to stay within cell service. We've got people going on the way. Thank you. Wait a minute.

Yeah, I'm thinking of creating a house. They're calling us to buy a bed and they're asking to buy a reservoir. Can you keep us updated with anything that's going on, okay? Okay. All right. Don't go away from cell service. Okay. Okay.

Thanks, Jessica. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. So I know that was, you know, a couple minutes and it was a little long, but it was important because a couple things happened during the call that I want to address. Because to be fair, it did seem like Jessica kind of had spotty service, especially at the beginning of the call. Right. She was cutting out when she was saying his name, like the whole thing wasn't coming through.

So, you know, it's definitely a known fact that the cell phone service in that area is bad. But pretty early on in her call, you hear someone else in that room talking to Vernal and saying, yeah, don't worry, Vernal, we have someone on the way. That's pretty early on in her call. So that's important. I feel like you're saying it's important for a different reason than I'm thinking. So I don't want to, why are you thinking that? So in Jessica's written statement, there seems to be a discrepancy. She claims that when she hung up with a 911 dispatcher, she removed all the items from her pockets and threw them into the passenger seat of Vernal's truck. And if you're watching on YouTube, we're going to put up a screenshot of this written statement.

Now, many people have wondered how she was able to do that when at the time of her call, Vernal was allegedly over a mile away, and according to a time distance study, it would have taken him over 16 minutes to get back to camp from the area he claimed he'd been when he called the police. Jessica's 911 call has been released to the public. Vernal's never has been. However, according to a later investigation from a private investigation firm, it seems that Jessica's call was made at 2.28 p.m., but Vernal's call was made at 2.22 p.m., six minutes before Jessica's call went through. So if we believe his statement, as soon as he got on the phone with 911, he told them his son was missing and he didn't know where they were. And the dispatcher reassured him that they were already talking to Jessica and Jessica had given them the location. So that's strange, right? It sounded like to me that Jessica had been on the

phone first though, because it was about two minutes into that call when that person in the background, the dispatcher saying, oh, we have your girlfriend on the phone right now. Okay. So that's the thing, right? It was about two minutes in, I would agree. So what I want to mention is, like I said, his 911 call has never been released, even though they have it. Why hasn't it been released? Because I think that they probably don't want people to start comparing and lining it up because, you know, you've called 911. You've been on the other end of 911 sometimes. You don't just call and say, like, my son's missing. And then they're like, don't worry, Vernal, we're on the way. Like, you have to give them information. You have to tell

them what your name is, what your son's name is. It takes a little while to get to that point. So there's people that believe that Vernal actually never left the campsite, that he made his call from the campsite because I guess that they enhanced some of the audio and people believe that Vernal can be heard in the background of Jessica's call saying, quote, I made the call. Now, I don't hear it in the clip, but people swear that they do. We got some crazy good headphones. Not that we're, I mean, we're listening to a YouTube clip, but we got some crazy good headphones in. I hear like a man talking in the background, but that could be Bob. That could be. It sounded like, and I, you know, I've never heard Vernal, but it sounded like an older man.

And also, I think it would be a lot more apparent that he's in the background talking if you could hear it. Because I felt like I could hear others in the background, like you just said. So I don't know about that. Well, there should only have been two people there. It should have only been Jessica and Bob. Because allegedly, at this point, Isaac, he wasn't even there when he and Jessica and Bernal had walked down to the fishing area. They went back to camp and he continued on to like go fishing. So that hasn't been released that would give you the coordinates of Vernal at the time when he made the call specifically, because now that phone's being used, it's bouncing off cell towers. So although you and I and everyone else doesn't know, there would be a distance between them if they were in two different locations. Only the police know that. And remember that you said that.

Okay. All right. And what do you make of Jessica and her statement saying that when she hung up with the 911 dispatcher, she took all the items out of her pocket and threw them into the passenger seat of Vernal's truck? You and I have talked about this before about witness statements, like people who are genuinely like real witnesses who have nothing to do with the crime and want to help. They make mistakes all the time. I think I've even said this before. I was involved in a bad situation where it was very traumatic for me. And I had said, the lights were on in the situation. Come to find out they weren't. It was just a flashlight that was on behind me from one of

the other officers. These are things that happen when you're in a traumatic moment. And I can't imagine a situation more traumatic than losing your child. And so I give her a little bit of a pass there. Again, we're very early in this case. I may feel completely different, but you're asking my feeling right now. And I think it's reasonable for her to mix up the order in which she did things because of what was taking place. Okay. So what do you make of both Vernal and Jessica during their 911 calls, their separate 911 calls saying that little Dior had been missing for an hour, but later during their interview with Nate Eaton and to the police, Jessica and Vernal would claim that they had searched for their son frantically for only 20 minutes before calling the police. I remember you saying 20 minutes and I remember

her saying an hour on the phone and that raised the eyebrow. It could be something. It could be nothing. And when you and I were just talking about this, it was four minutes when you lost Aiden. How long did it feel? There wasn't even a sense of time, honestly. My point is I know when it happened with me, I've lost my child for 30 seconds and it felt like 30 minutes. Actually thinking about it, it almost felt sped up. It felt like it was like this manic state where like everything was like moving in like a blur around me. You know, I couldn't focus. So I wouldn't even be able to tell you. But I do know it was only about four minutes because only four minutes. Yeah. Because later my husband was like, yo, it was only like under five minutes. point might have escaped her and it might have felt longer. So they both had this misunderstanding of time to the exact same time of an hour? Well, you're telling me that Vernal's time was 9-1-1

was never released him saying an hour, right? Yes, correct. But they did say that he said an hour and you can see it in his written statement as well. Okay. Yeah. I mean, initially I could see how that would be the case, but I also hear what you're saying. Was the hour wrong or was what they said when they said they looked for about 20 minutes and couldn't find him wrong? I, you know, I'm going off what you're telling me. Something's wrong, right? It can't, the math doesn't line up that they were only gone. You know, Jessica said five minutes. Vernal said how long? 15 to 20. 15 to 20. And then they were looking for him for about 20 minutes. That at max is only 45 minutes. Yeah. If you go by his timeline. And I'm thinking that if they were doing this, they might've been going off the fact that like, listen, we said, Hey Bob, he's staying with you. We were gone about 15, 20 minutes. Let's assume the worst

that he never got to Bob. So that's already 20 minutes he's been missing. Now we've been searching for 20, 25 minutes. We're at 45 right there. So, you know, you round up and say it's an hour. To also put a sense of urgency on law enforcement that he's been missing for over an hour now, get here as fast as you can. This is serious. And it could have been something where he actually was missing for an hour, but then they're like, that kind of looks bad.

That's a long time. Yeah. Let's say 20 minutes when we interview with Nate Eaton. And I feel like you're going to hit me with some curve balls here. It can't be this straightforward. So I know you're asking me these questions and going to have some stuff that you hit me with later that's going to contradict it like crazy. But I'm going down that road with you because as someone of an outsider, those are the obvious answers for me, which I think is why you're asking me because you know what I'm going down that road with you because as someone of an outsider, those are the obvious answers for me, which I think is why you're asking me because you know what I'm going to say. So we're going to take a quick break and then we'll be right back.

So when Dior vanished, he was wearing his cowboy boots, blue pajama pants, and a camo jacket. And his parents didn't necessarily say that he had gone missing with one of his Hot Wheel cars, but they did say that this toy was missing from the campsite, so it was kind of inferred. Authorities were at the Timber Creek campsite by 3.45 p.m. and a massive search began. The obvious area of concern was the shallow creek down the embankment from the campsite. It wasn't that deep, but Dior was only two years old and young children can drown in only two inches of water. The Leam High County Sheriff's Office and search and rescue teams pulled out all the stops, and initially

they were hopeful because according to the parents, they'd only taken their eyes off of Dior for such a short window of time, so if the child had wandered off, he wouldn't have been able to get far. They brought in both scent dogs and cadaver dogs. They had helicopters with infrared and boats with side-scan sonar attached. They had volunteers on foot, on ATVs, and on horseback, and they performed grid searches through a 2.5-mile radius around the campsite, and they even had divers come in to search the creek and the reservoir that it led to, but there was absolutely no sign of Dior. Not an article of his clothing, not one of his cowboy boots, which were so big on him that he had trouble walking in

them, no little toys, no blood, nothing. They even had search and rescue members doing grid searches in the creek on their hands and knees, and they still came up with nothing. And this was very unusual given that Dior was so young and he'd been missing for such a short amount of time. And there really wasn't any place that he could have gone. You'd think with such a massive search, if he'd wandered off, he would have been found. If he'd tumbled down the embankment leading to the creek, he would have been found. As far as this area, and you may be getting to this later, but what's animal activity like up there? Bears? What are we looking at? We will get to it later. There is animal activity. There's

wild animals, but- Large animals though? Are we talking bears and stuff? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Just to throw that out there, it's not like a local park where it's pretty much contained. As you saw from that first video, they're out in the wilderness. Yeah. Okay. All right. So the search for Dior continued through the weekend, but on July 12th, the search was suspended for an undetermined amount of time.

Speaking to East Idaho News, Jessica Mitchell's mother, Tina Clegg, said, quote, The sheriff told us in all his history he's never seen anything like this. Right now they have ruled out that he had slipped and fallen into the creek. The creek has been cleared and the sheriff is 100% confident that Dior is not in the creek, end quote. Even though the official search had been halted, the sheriff's department promised that they would still have a police presence on site and trained professionals would still be actively searching for the missing child. On Monday, July 13th, Jessica Mitchell and Vernal Coons sat down with Nate Eaton from East Idaho News for their first public interview. Now, obviously, you know, we've been down this road before. We know how the parents of missing children are often perceived by the public.

We've got a lot of people out there on the internet who will watch these interviews over and over and pick them apart, the body language, the words they say, do they seem distressed enough, etc. And I want to emphasize that we cannot judge the way that others act in a time of crisis. There's no template for grief and there's no code for how one should act when they're going through something traumatic or when they're grieving. And there's a variety of factors that can dictate this. It's completely normal to react in ways that you can't control and none of them are right or wrong. A person might be in total shock and not show any emotions, or they might react in what can be perceived by others as a strange way, you know, such as laughing when there's nothing funny about the situation.

But we are here to talk about the disappearance of a two-year-old boy, so it is worth mentioning certain moments in the interview that some people have found to be odd considering the situation. I'm so glad you said all that because I know that people get very passionate about these cases. And as humans, we want to know the truth. We want to know what happened, especially when it involves a child. But I ask all of you, I know I do, you can look at a situation and be critical of it as you're trying to dissect mannerisms, both verbal and physical, but also consider the idea that regardless of how it looks, this case may look as we continue to go, you're potentially looking at two parents who had absolutely nothing to do with the disappearance of their son and are completely innocent.

And I always think it's better to proceed through that lens than the opposite, because imagine being accused. Absolutely. Or being considered responsible for the death of your child when you had absolutely nothing to do with it. I mean, it couldn't be much worse. So if you're looking at it that way and still being inquisitive, there's nothing wrong with it. But don't start on the other angle because we truly don't know. And Stephanie has said multiple times, this is a mystery right now. We don't know what happened to Dior. So treat it that way. While the full unedited interview is just over 15 minutes long, Vernal Coons does most of the talking while a very distraught-looking Jessica sits next to him

clutching Dior's favorite blanket. Now, people have brought up that for a good seven minutes of this interview, Vernal basically acted as like a hype man for the Lehigh County Sheriff's Office and the Salmon Search and Rescue, which I personally think is nice. You know, it's nice to recognize the people who have put their lives on hold to help you through a crisis. But I do have to admit, I find it a bit strange that he spent so much time giving them their flowers because you would think that like the main goal with this first interview would to be like to get the word out and have the general public be on the lookout for your missing son. So it feels like raising awareness for the disappearance, talking about Dior, talking about what he liked, what he didn't like, you know, was he shy around people? What's his vocabulary like? Does he know his name? Does he know his parents' phone numbers? Things like that. That would be, you know, the main goal of the conversation. So I'm going to play a clip of a couple points from this interview, and then we'll discuss.

So we decided to call search and rescue. And that's when I drove down. She tried getting a signal out. As soon as I got a hold of them, they told me that she was on the other line with them. They had our location and they were on our way. They were amazing. They are amazing and they still continue to be. Lima High County Sheriff and Sam in search and rescue. You could not ask for a better group of people,

volunteers in search and rescue, and just everybody. You couldn't ask for better people. So sincere, so concerned. And they were, everybody was so emotionally attached to this as anybody would be of a two-year-old he's pretty small for his age but he moves pretty good and that was our concern he he was right with

us i've where it's at is i mean i thought it would be perfect to go camping there because it's enclosed by walls of mountains and there's not much space around there that he could go. And our biggest concern was the creek, which was knee deep, few feet wide, but he's a little guy. They finally, yesterday, we were able to put that to rest and Lima High County Sheriff, Sheriff Dave, and the rest of the sheriffs have put out that there is, they assured me there is 100% chance that he is not anywhere in that water, around that water. They have torn that creek upside down and in and out.

Divers have gone through wetsuits along with the helicopter. That was the world's most advanced search and rescue helicopter volunteered out of Montana. And those guys were just amazing the accuracy they had with the night vision ability it has and the heat range you can see they were what the one guy I can't remember his name I've met so many people so many good people but he was he did his own safety, he was more or less, he was strapped in and he was on the side of that helicopter looking. And he was looking down. I remember them telling me that they asked the search and rescue to go look over

because there was an orange insect repellent can, they think, by the bank, and they were dead on. That's what it was. That's how accurate these guys are. They thought it might have been like a part of a shoe or something, but they said, go check that out. These guys searched miles. So the mile radius they have is a very rocky terrain.

It is very open, but it's not. The helicopter that's used is used to back very deep Montana. It is designed for a lot worse situations than this. And there was not a trace of my son found. There still isn't, but the search is on. The hearsay of things has kind of gotten way out of hand. The search is so far has been put on that has been suspended. And that is not entirely sure or true sheriff dave of lemahe county i just spoke with him on the phone this morning he has got horseback riders and trackers up there right now and very very advanced professional um i'll be i'll be going up um with

and i've just come down to get any resource i can get to go back right up back up today. What questions did you guys have? Tell us a little bit about first of all, how are you guys holding up? I know everybody's a lot of people are praying for you. They're concerned. Friends and family and open to be strong for him. I know keeping me together because if we didn't have all of our family, the minute I called my mom and she was up there in a matter of hours and same with have all of our family, the minute I called my mom and she was up there in a matter of hours

and same with the rest of our family, they were just up there around us. Luckily, a few phone calls is all it took at first. And we had, just as Sheriff Davis said in the news, there was 175 plus people up there in the grid searches, volunteers, professionals and anybody i called there's the service up there is very here sit here there it's camping you know um we're trying to hold up the best we can but with we have hope is the thing hope is what keeps

it going hope is because the search is not over search is not done we will find him no matter what you were in the truck so was it you that first realized oh no no we both did i just said we after 20 minutes of up and down the creek and up and around the camp and he wasn't there that's what i got in my pickup truck and drove down the road to try and get some service especially after screaming his name we have nicknames for him. No sound of him. He's a goer and a mover, but he's not, he does not go away from his parents. He does not. Yeah. He's very attached to us. Very, very unusual, sir. So what did you think about the parents and their demeanor and what they said? I just think it was great that you gave that disclaimer. because I think that's what I take out of it. I mean, I wish I could have like more.

The only thing I'll say, because someone might out there might call me on it. There have been some studies that suggest that when you're looking down to the right, you're creating a memory as opposed to remembering it. And when you're looking to your left, that's a logical side of your brain. However, what do I always say?

Baseline. This person, Vernal, might talk like this all the time where he's looking off, thinking about what he's going to say before he says it. He's definitely a talker. That's one thing we can get out of this. I guarantee you this guy is someone who doesn't shut up whenever he's excited about a conversation or passionate about something. He couldn't he couldn't even breathe before. He's like, what questions do you have for me? He just like wanted to keep going. That could be anxiety.

That could be nerves. He's not someone who's in front of a camera a lot. I got a sense of hope where they felt like it was almost a sense of relief that he wasn't found in the creek and that maybe he could still be scared, hiding behind something and still a well you know alive and well and they were almost like happy to not find his body along

that creek so that was kind of my takeaway from it but what what do you think and you are you feeling differently did you think at certain points when he was going on and on about like the equipment the events technology yeah she kind of looked over at him at points and she was like what the fuck are she was like what the fuck are you doing like what are you talking about yeah i mean i definitely see where you and where everyone could come from from that oh i don't know if anybody else said that but i just noticed when i was watching again for like the fifth time she was kind of like glancing over him and her her foot was kind of like bobbing you know and it was it would be a way i would look at my husband if i

was like shut up you know you can tell a lot was running through her head someone came in the room while she was while she would they were sitting here you could see her pointing like off like off her hips yeah there's people in and out of the room the whole time yeah she seemed very very out of it as far as like you know like she's her head was everywhere she's probably got a million thoughts running through her mind he just seemed very nervous. And as far as him talking about the helicopter and how advanced it was. You think it's just babbling out of nervousness? Maybe. And that, I don't know, he feels like he might be a really pro-military, pro-law enforcement person. I don't know. Maybe he's trying to give them credit and kudos because he knows they're going to see it and he wants them to keep looking really hard for their son. Maybe he feels like that's going to incentivize them to look even

harder because he's their biggest cheerleader. I don't know. I don't know. So some people think he was like building them up and like complimenting them so heavily because I mean, it is a little extra there. You know, some of the nicest people I've ever met in the world is a little extra. Some people think he may be doing that to sort of like take attention off of himself. So if there's anybody on search and rescue that encounters something that might make them suspect the parents, they would be like, ah, but they're nice. They're nice people, you know? Which I guess is possible, but really dumb, right? Like if you think for a second, like, man, if I'm out here rooting for these guys who are risking their life to find this little boy,

if they find something that implicates me because I had a five minute conversation with them and gave them a couple props on some news channel, they're going to get rid of evidence that implicates me. I mean, if you think that's possible that these guys are going to do that for you, you're a moron. I'm sorry. I don't know what to say. You're a moron. I hate to say it, but he kind of reminded me a little bit of Chris Watts in the interview. You know how Chris was sort of nervous, like rocking back and forth, talked a lot, like super like active talking, kept saying like, I've got no recollection. I've got no recollection. And it kind of bugged me that Jessica didn't talk a lot. And it felt like whenever she did

open up her mouth to talk, he cut her off and interrupted her, almost like he was afraid of what she might say. I could see that. She definitely tried to talk near the end, and he jumped right over her. I saw that as well. But that could be their dynamic. Like you said, he could be that guy. And I've talked to people like this, where it's like, you can't get a word in that choice. Did you see when he was talking and Nate's just sitting there being a good interviewer, letting him talk, and then he's like, yeah. So what questions you got? You know, like, you know, and Nate's like, well, I, you know, he's like, oh, thanks. Appreciate it. You know? who worked at a store in Lador had mentioned seeing a scruffy looking man and a small boy matching Dior's description in the store. Apparently this boy was crying and the man was buying him candy and then they got into a black truck together. Somebody at the store in Lador said it was one of the ladies that had worked at the store said that they saw um a gentleman and a

younger blonde boy matching our description of our son really filthy buying candy for him and he was just bawling in a black truck that is the only here's the problem other my pickup truck as a family we went down to get some get a few things. It was earlier that day. But they claim it was at six o'clock that evening. And we were searching rescue until, what, a quarter to four? Yeah. We haven't left the camp since one o'clock that afternoon. So it's just a lot of hearsay. Now that's interesting. That's interesting because it's really possible, and I always say this about witnesses, right, that they could have got the time wrong. They definitely could have.

That's one angle. So here's what I'll say. I've searched everywhere. This alleged sighting has never been confirmed that this actually was seen that it was like i mean i searched everywhere now could be buried in police reports and they haven't released it that's very possible i cannot confirm that anybody actually said that and you know i'm gonna go off so let's just go good disclaimer let's go off the fact that they got this from police that they're they shouldn't have been saying this but they did you know because vernal

is he likes to talk. And this is something where it's not necessarily hearsay. If someone is saying, I saw a young boy down here crying and a man in a black truck buying him candy, it does kind of line up with the fact that they bought him candy that day, as you said earlier. So could this person be wrong on the time? Maybe. Again, I feel like you're going to hit me with stuff later that would contradict that. Check this out said earlier. So could this person be wrong on the time? Maybe. Again, I feel like you're going to hit me with stuff later that would contradict that. Check this out, though. Check this out. Your kid goes missing, right?

Okay. At what? You call the police around 2.30, he's missing. Right around, yep. Right around 2.30, yep. You hear this alleged eyewitness say that she saw someone who matches the description of your child in led or at 6 p.m. with a scruffy looking man buying candy. They get into a black truck and your immediate reaction is to say, I drive a black truck. They probably just saw us earlier and got the time wrong. Why wouldn't you think the timeline works? This could have been somebody who had abducted Dior. And that's when they were seen after the abduction.

Like that's not even a possibility to you. No, you're not wrong. I'll tell you what I'm doing. What are you doing? I know what I'm doing. What are you doing? I'm going down there from Vernal, finding this person and saying, hey, I just want to, I'm the father. Was it me? I'm here. If you, you obviously remember what this guy looked like. was it me that you saw? Because I'm the dad. If she comes out or he comes out and says, no, it wasn't you. It was a different guy. We got a problem. We got a real problem. But that's the first thing I'm doing. I'm not discrediting that their time is off. I'm going down there and probably impeding an investigation, but I don't care, to go ask this

witness, was it me you saw? Was it that truck? Because we can put this to bed right now. That's the thing though. He doesn't even entertain it as a possible actual sight. He's like, there's a lot of hearsay. I drive a black truck. They probably just saw us and then they were at the wrong time. Don't want to do that. That's definitely not what you don't want to discredit it. And that's why police probably didn't love that. He said this, you know, in this interview, you know, and this is also three days after, which is interesting that the police wouldn't try to deter them from doing it because this isn't like a city area.

Yes, you want to get it out there, but I don't know if I'm going to put parents on camera three days after when you could have the police doing these interviews, giving information that's pertinent to the case that could assist them in solving it because they're out in the middle of nowhere. So I don't know if Dior is going to be able to make it back to town where somebody would see him. But I understand that if he was abducted- He would if he was abducted, yeah. Exactly. If he was abducted, I could see that. But I don't know if I would have these people, understandably, be the spokesperson for the case because they're personally connected to it and they're traumatized if they're victims. Listen, it's Leimhi County Sheriff's Office.

This isn't like LAPD. The FBI hadn't gotten involved yet. They probably didn't really deal with things like this all the time, right? I mean, the sheriff told Jessica's mother, like, never in his, you know, history of law enforcement had he encountered something like this. So they probably didn't even know what protocol was. Okay, we're going to take our last break and Dior's parents also introduced the theory that Dior may have been abducted from the campsite. Vernal said that the area where they had set up camp was very open, but he'd never been there before, so he wasn't familiar with that area. But when he was driving around looking for his son, he had come across a dirt

road that led up to a higher area over the reservoir. And he found out that from that vantage point, you could see everything underneath, including the place where they were camping. I come to find, I didn't know the area and I didn't know, it's very open, but you can't see much. There's a road that goes up and along the top. We're camped underneath the reservoir, basically right below it. And you can go up above the reservoir. I didn't even know the road was up there. And as I traveled up there myself, I come to find out, I can see everything going on in that campsite, but you can't see out. You can't see up. You can't see around. And if anybody comes to the bottom of your campground, you can't even see they are.

So they could have come of your campground, you can't even see where they are. So they could have come to your campground? They could have came in and you could never know it. And the water was not a fast-running, it's a creek, but it is quite loud moving through the logs and things like that. So hearing range is not all that far either, so you couldn't hear anybody coming up either. So he was just kind of playing and you guys were doing your thing and then he noticed. He was playing with Grandpa. He's getting ready for a nap i say it was almost by that time it was almost two and he usually takes his nap um we we was just yeah we decided we're going to go a little exploring he was going to be good with grandpa by the campfire

we weren't more than probably 50 50 yards away in 10 minutes uh but the time we i seen him to the point i figured out he was gone and i come back up in the creek and i've actually seen there were some things down by the little minnows and i thought he would just love so when i come back up to get him and i yelled over to grandpa of where is you know where's little dior he immediately, he immediately shocked. He says, I thought he came up to you because it's such a small area. That's what a lot of people, they don't understand is they just assume, how could you let your kid out of your sight? This area is pretty well blocked in and you can see you could, there's no way you couldn't not see him in what we thought. So I want to go back to what I said earlier, this and this part of the interview, he's

looking off to the left. He's looking down and off to the left. So just to kind of be both sides of it, I'm going to go on a limb here and, you know, I don't have anything to substantiate this, but I'm just going to say it. It might come back to bite me by the end of this. I find him believable. I'm just going to say that right now. I find him believable.

What that means to you, maybe not much, you not much as far as everyone out there, but I find him looking in the eye of the investigator. I don't find him thinking about what he's going to say calculated. It sounds like he's just shooting from the hip. So either he's just a really good liar or this guy is just telling it how it is. And that's my initial gut instinct right now, listening to him. He sounds believable to me. Okay. Well, both Jessica and Vernal, they said they didn't know if there were any other people around camping nearby, but they personally never saw anyone else. Vernal mentioned, like he said, someone could have snuck down into their camping area. The sound of the nearby Russian

Creek would have disguised the sound of their approach. But then I also have to, he kind of went right after and he was like, you know, it's such an open area, like it's impossible for him not to be seen, like talking about Dior. So if it's impossible for Dior not to be seen, wouldn't like an intruder be spotted? Like an intruder couldn't have driven up, right? One road going in and out, you would have heard the car come up. Even later, I believe Vernal's dad was there and he said like, no, there's no way anybody came up here. You would have seen them because it's all kind of like flat when the road's coming up and you would have heard a car. So a person couldn't have approached in a vehicle. They would have had to have approached on a foot and then it is an open area. So it's possible that

Grandpa Bob was just straight passed out by the fire. But where did this person come from? Did they follow Dior and his family there? Were they waiting for everyone else to go off except Grandpa Bob and then waiting for Grandpa Bob to fall asleep? What's the motive here? Well, I think you just said something that's really important. And that's the fact that like, how would this person even know that? How would he know or she know that the parents were going to leave the child away with, you know, alone with this 80 year old man for any amount of time. And from that vantage point, would you be able to know with a hundred percent certainty that there's a little boy running around with grandpa Bob and the parents aren't just right out of eyesight where the minute you get down there,

they're already walking back into camp and you're exposed. How would you know all those things that window of opportunity that you could see from this vantage point was going to be accessible five minutes from now when you got down the hill? I don't see how that would be. I mean, this person, unless they were really scouting them out, which I mean, again, always anything's possible, just seems very unlikely. Yeah. Well, Vernal went on to say, quote, vanished. There's not a trace found. This child loses stuff. He's two, almost three. Anyone who has a child in that age range knows they leave trails. They lose stuff. Nothing. There's just nothing. There's a possibility that he might be with somebody, and that's what's giving us hope.

It's a bad thing that he would not be with us right now, but that means there's a good chance he's alive and with somebody." Vernal said that in his gut, he knew that Dior was not on that mountain anymore, since there was a thorough and advanced search which had left no stone unturned, and Vernal felt that if Dior had still been out there, they would have found him. And he had mentioned it in his interview. You got to think about the grid search and knowing how fast this child can move in that time frame. In those boots. Yeah. These guys are experts at it. Even if he had lost the boots, there's only a certain distance that this child could go in that time window and they have it all kind of mapped out. So when they're using things like night vision and thermal imaging, even if they can't see him, if he's hiding next to a tree or. And I'm sure based on what Verna was saying

about this, you know, the spray can, even them finding that, which wouldn't give off heat, they spotted that. So they were not only using this technology, but also the visuals that they were seeing while they're hanging out of the helicopter. So it does make a lot of sense to say, Hey, if he was still alive and on that mountain, we would know that all being said, if he was deceased, if for example, an animal had gotten him, um, he would not be admitting he anymore. And he may be in an area that's inside a cave under some type of area where he's not seen from using visuals. You know, you're talking a large area. So there are other options to explain how he could still be on the mountain, but not found. But I get where Vernal's saying, they couldn't find him with all the technology.

He's not in the creek. Somebody has him. Somebody took him from us. Yeah. So the problem with the whole animal theory, and we're going to go more in depth on the theories in the next video, but remember that Dior's boots were two sizes too big for him. He could barely keep them on when he's walking. So some bear comes lunging out of the trees, grabs Dior up when his paws or his mouth and, you know, runs away with them. Those boots are not staying on. Boots are probably coming off the blanket you referred to. What was the third?

Well, she has the blanket. So he left that behind. What I'm saying is he had his boots. He had his camo jacket. You would expect to see his boots fall off and then maybe a trail of blood. The bear's not going to gingerly pick Dior up in his jaws and say, let's get you to the cave where I can kill you right. He's a bear or she, I don't know. I don't want to assume. But the point is that's the thing that freaks everybody out. An animal attack leaves behind some trace of that animal attack, especially when the

kid's wearing boots that he can barely walk in because he can't keep his feet in them. And the sheriff's office does not believe this was an animal attack. All right. Yeah. And I don't know enough about animals. We didn't have that where I work. So I'm definitely no means an expert at like, you know, what what you would see evidence of an animal attack.

I agree with you about the boots this is common sense i would love to know more about like bear attacks and things of that nature where is it possible because the boy didn't pose a threat he was able the bear was able to pick him up and carry him i don't i don't i don't know i don't know it sounds silly but i don't know i mean they could jungle book no but not kill him instantly but like i you know what i go back to what goldilocks and the three little bears no no i think about the uh what was the name harambe that was a gorilla gorilla gorillas and bears are completely different yeah i i i that's why i'm just putting the qualifier and i'm not saying by any means am i a guy who had to deal with, I'm not DEM.

Harambe was like a zoo animal. So he's used to being around people like, you know, stuff like that. Like a wild bear is not going to be like, Hey, little boy, hold my paw. Let's go off together. Yeah. I remember, I remember Harambe. Yeah. And that's what you're referring to.

The dragging. I'm just trying to think outside the box, but I'm with you. I mean, I don't know anything about what type of evidence would be left behind from a bear attack or enemy. And I would expect to see something as well. But could he have, could Dior have walked away from the campsite? And this occurred where in a location where it was very little evidence left behind and they didn't, they never found it. How far is a two-year-old going to walk in a 20-minute period? They searched within 3.5 miles of the camp. Grid searches hand in hand. They found nothing. Yeah. How far could he get? He's two in huge boots. I don't know the answer. Well, I don't know. The following week on July 14th and 15th, search teams thoroughly searched Stone Reservoir. So that was located about a quarter of a mile away from the family had set up camp. The creek, it actually like went into Stone Reservoir.

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah. But, you know, still like a quarter of a mile away is still like a long way for a two-year-old kid to walk. The entire time that this search was going on, Jessica and Vernal remained at the camp, refusing to leave without their son. The Leimhigh County Sheriff's Office released information that scent tracking dogs had led searchers to the reservoir. KTBV7

reported that this was the second time divers had searched the reservoir, which is a small, shallow, clear reservoir, but they still found no sign of the missing boy. On July 16th, a representative from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children arrived in Lador to assist with the search. Jessica and Vernal gave samples of their DNA to this representative as well as to the sheriff's office. And this was not because they were considered suspects at this moment. It was because if Dior was kidnapped and, you know, let's say he popped up in a different state, they would have to DNA test him to see if he was actually

Jessica and Vernal's son, and that would prove that he was Dior. And this is crazy because there's cases where this is exactly what happens. And it's like 10, 17 years later, the kid's found. He's been raised by a different family, and it turns out he was actually kidnapped. So that's actually very interesting. We should cover a case like that. That's crazy. Can you imagine being raised for like a decade or more by parents only to find out they kidnapped you? No, I can't. Initially, law enforcement reported that Dior's parents were being very cooperative, and the Leimhai County Sheriff's deputy, Steve Penner, asked the public to stop accusing them of having something to do with their son's disappearance, saying, quote, We've interviewed the family and the information they provided to us. We're good with that. And I know there's a lot of innuendo out on social media and a lot

of stuff going on out there, and it would be nice if it would stop and let them have a little peace. They're solid. End quote. Leimhai County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman announced that they did not suspect foul play in this case, and he had also mentioned that both Jessica and Vernal had been given polygraphs, but he wouldn't comment on whether they had passed or failed. A month later, on August 12, 2015, a private investigator named Frank Vilt volunteered to help with the search. Frank was an experienced investigator with a lengthy law enforcement background. He'd spent 10 years with the Elliott County Sheriff's Office and almost 20 years with the U.S. Marshals. After retiring, he started his own private investigation firm where he specialized in locating abducted and missing children. And in his career, he was able to successfully find 19 missing children and return them to their parents. I don't know if that sounds like a good record, right? 19 missing children is good. to their parents. I don't know if that sounds like a good record, right? 19 missing children is good.

I mean, that's impressive. 19 children that may have never been reunited with their parents. I think one is impressive, but 19, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like his record speaks for itself. And Frank wasn't a stranger to the family. He apparently knew them from his hometown of Montpelier. He was a regular at this automotive shop where Vernal used to work,

and Frank remembered seeing little Dior and his mother come into the shop every now and then to visit Vernal. So he offered to forego his usual hourly rate and work for only out-of-pocket expenses. Now, according to Frank Vilt, he thought it was very likely that Dior had been abducted since he was only two years old, wearing boots that were too big for him in this very rough terrain, and he couldn't have gotten far on his own. Frank Vilt told Nate Eaton from East Idaho News that he'd been interviewing people involved in the case, and he'd found a solid lead. Now, apparently, Jessica Mitchell claimed that while she and Dior had been at the stage shop in Lador on the morning of July 10th, there'd been a man sitting at the corner table and he'd been staring at Dior with no expression

on his face. The man was described as being in his 50s with whitish gray hair that curled up at the bottom and he was driving a new looking black Jeep Rubicon. According to Frank Vilt, another couple reported seeing a man who matched this description on July 18th while she and her husband were hiking with their four children in Swan Lake, Idaho. This woman, who did not want to be identified, she claimed the older man was staring at her family and watching them, especially her youngest child, who was of the opinion that Dior's parents had done nothing wrong in the situation. And he was even critical of the sheriff's office for having what he called tunnel vision because they had claimed that they didn't believe an abduction had occurred. But within a month, Frank Filt would change his tune considerably. that Jessica said she was in the stage shop and she saw this guy looking at Dior, that's evidence that she claims he was with her inside the store on July 10th. Yet nobody who works there remembers that. Yeah, you had said that, that he was actually running up and down the aisles, right?

Yeah, that's what she said in one interview or on Facebook or something. Okay. So also this guy was later found and tracked down and it ended up not, it ended up being like a local guy, you know, who, who couldn't remember seeing Dior either that day, but he was also not tracked down until like several years later when they put two and two together and figured out who he was. Cause Frank Vilt had like a composite sketch made up of him and things like that. So they finally tracked this guy down. He's like, yeah, I go to the stage shop, you know, usually most mornings to get coffee and stuff. So

like I was there, but I don't remember. It's been too long to remember if I saw a kid that day. In a letter to Jessica and Vernal dated September 8th, 2015, Frank Vilt wrote, quote, Dear Dior and Jessica. So Dior Sr. is Vern my text to your cellular telephone at 8.31am, I am withdrawing from the investigation because of circumstances beyond my control, including, but not limited to, a breach of trust on your part concerning your refusal to allow me to make this case national. I am perplexed as to why you didn't want me to advertise the $20,000 reward. I was willing to put up personal funds in the hopes that the public could provide information leading to the whereabouts of your son. When I agreed to assist you, I informed you that I would work for my out-of-pocket expenses. I was willing to forego my normal hourly fee.

My stipulation was that both of you would be absolutely truthful. I told both of you that if I felt that you were not telling the truth, stalling me, or otherwise misleading me, that I would withdraw from the investigation. In my professional opinion, both of you lied and misrepresented the true facts that could solve the mystery of your missing son. There are other aspects of this case that I cannot go into at this time, but simply put, I believe that the searches will all be nonproductive. The searches are only used by you to cover a possible crime that one or both of you may have committed. Emphasis added.

My suggestion is that you fully cooperate with the Leam High County Sheriff and tell the truth. I do not appreciate the fact that one or both of you are spreading rumors that you have paid me. I have not received reimbursement to cover my expenses. I also feel that you are exploiting the public for financial gain. How can you live with yourselves? Sooner or later, the truth will come out. End quote. How did we gain access to this letter? He posted it because all these rumors were coming out and people were like coming at him and being like, oh, you're just here for the money. Like they've paid you and you haven't done anything. And he's like, no, they didn't pay me. And then, you know, they were like attacking oh, you're just here for the money. Like they've paid you and you haven't done anything. And he's like, no, they didn't pay me.

And then, you know, they were like attacking him, people. And so he said, you know, I need to set the record straight. I need to tell people what happened and what I think happened. I don't like it. Okay. I don't like the letter going public. I don't mind the letter at all.

I was actually 100% with it until the last part where it's like, how do you live with yourselves? And the fact that- Dude, he's emotionally attached. He knew these people. Yeah. Well, that's the thing, right? As an investigator, you don't want to be emotionally attached. You know what I mean? It's like for him, it is personal. He knew them, he offered to do them a favor and then he felt they were lying to him. And then he felt that, and he'll explain why. We can move on and get there before you. Yeah.

No, I'll just say this for me. I wish you would have stopped at that. You fully cooperate with me. My county sheriff and tell the truth. Stop because you're so perfect there that you paid me. Completely two different things. Because he's getting attacked. I mean, it's also like his I'm quitting letter.

That's fine. That's fine. But then he posted it. So this is a public statement. Well, he's not like law enforcement. He's a private investigator. Which, you know, coincidentally, I am too. And I'm just telling you from my experience. And you're like a citizen. If you worked for a family. I would never do it. If you worked for a family who had you take like your time to search for their son, and then you

found something that you thought meant that they had been responsible for their son's death, and you were like emotionally attached to this kid because you've been searching for him. You wouldn't feel like, how do you sleep at night? You would, but you wouldn't write it. I agree with what you just said. But he said all of those things and then wrote two or three sentences regarding finances. And after that was when he said, how can you live with yourselves? So I just think it was maybe poorly worded, but I would have left out the section about being compensated or not. I really liked what he had to say, especially the part

where he wouldn't go in to why he thought that. I thought that was very professional. I really liked the letter, but I did not like that section. I guess it's personal preference. I happen to own a firm. I have investigators that work for me. no public statement or any court document that we submit based on our reports, whether I thought the claimant or the client that we're working for, which has happened before, was telling the truth or not. If we're working for a client and I find information that suggests they're lying to me, I would absolutely put into that letter and obviously our termination of agreement that the reason I'm doing it is because I feel like they're being untruthful. But regardless of whether they paid me or not, that would be in a

separate document. That wouldn't be in that document, especially if I'm accusing them of being dishonest. Well, listen, I think emotions were running high and I don't think we can judge people on how they react when they're in a- You saying you can't judge someone? Guys. But I'm saying I don't think we can judge people when they're in a place of grief when they're in a you saying you can't judge someone guys but i'm saying i don't think we can judge people when they're like in a place of you know grief or they're they're upset or he's not feeling grief he knew them like the he felt personal about this i think because they he they thought they were like friends you know well my opinion on this one not the most professional way to end i agree with you but i also i don't i don't want to judge him for that because I feel like I would do something like that. I get personally attached to the cases that I cover and stuff. And if I felt like a family member was lying to me and leading

me down the wrong path to stop me from actually getting to the truth purposely, I'd be like, how dare you? What's wrong with you? I don't disagree. You're not going to get an argument from me there. It's just to couple that with the financial elements of the investigation, you know, doesn't change what he said. But I thought it lost a little bit of its oomph for me at that point where I felt it was a really powerful letter. And then it goes into stop spreading rumors about me. If I had a dollar for every time a rumor was spread about me, whether it was on breaking

homicide, not so much private cases that haven't been publicized or on television. I mean, if it was a rumor about you and your investigative service, that's libel, that's slander. You kind of want to clear the air. That's your professional reputation. You want to let people know, no, they have not paid me. I'm not just taking their money and not helping. Stop saying that. You're making me look bad and people aren't going to want to hire me.

Yeah. So Frank claimed that he'd grown suspicious when Jessica and Vernal had not wanted him to take the case of their missing son to a national level and get Dior's parents interviews with public figures like Nancy Grace so that they could get the word out to a larger audience along with that $20,000 reward. So Frank was like, you know, let's put this reward up. And this reward came from like money being raised, you know, by like the public. Let's put this reward up. Let's get you on Nancy Grace. Let's get you on Dr. Phil. Like, let's get you on the CNNs, the Foxes, all of that stuff. And the parents were like, no, we don't want to do probably be that good. But I would still love to hear it just for the sake of knowing their rationale on it. If there's more to the stories, is it exactly what he's saying? It's a he said, she said type thing. But yeah, just on the surface from his allegations, yeah, that's a huge red flag. Well, I mean, this really didn't go national as far as the parents,

right? Nate Eden did talk to Nancy Grace, I believe, like a year or two after, but the parents never took any of these interviews and they were asked. Do you think it could be maybe the recommend that the police ever come out and say we recommended that they don't do them nationally because Vernal was already talking about things that he shouldn't have been talking about publicly or do you or we don't have any clue as to you know advise not to speak based on what i know i do not think the police told them not to do that okay and that would make sense because they did an interview on the 13th and they weren't stopped right so you know i yeah it makes sense well frank said that dior's parents had told them they didn't even want him offering the reward and they blamed blamed the Leimhai County Sheriff for this, claiming it was the sheriff who had not wanted the case to get national attention. Sheriff Lynn Bowerman has refuted this, claiming that this conversation never happened. And then Frank Vilt began to run into inconsistencies in the stories of the people who were at the campsite that day concerning the timeline. Now, we obviously can't

go into all the inconsistencies. They're pretty much things that we've already discussed and went over, but he kind of ran into the same things. The stories didn't match up. The timelines didn't match up. None of the witnesses that he re-interviewed remembered seeing Dior. Vernal had mentioned talking like a red-headed woman, an employee at the gas station where he filled up. Nobody who worked there could remember ever talking to him, things like that. And Frank felt that they were being dishonest. And so I started finding little little things that they were inconsistent. Their stories didn't jive.

One was the timeline and there was an overemphasis of Jessica stating that she knew the boy was in the campground because she kept looking back. I kept looking back. I kept looking back. And it seemed like this was like an overkill. Why would she keep saying this over and over and over again? She wanted to establish that the boy was in the campground. And this was after they came back from town and they saw some fish that Isaac and Bob, the grandfather, caught. And so, Lior said, well, show me where those fish are. Where did you catch those fish? And so, they went off with Jessica, Lior, and Isaac went off to the creek where they caught the fish, supposedly,

and Jessica kept saying, I kept looking back to make sure the little man was there. Kept looking back, kept looking back. And why did she overemphasize that? And that was kind of one of the things. And she couldn't answer my question as to why she kept saying that, but she wanted to establish like an alibi that the boy was there. And some other things that were just inconsistent and they didn't want to, they just were hiding things like they weren't coming forth with the truth.

They didn't make line. The timeline didn't make sense. Okay. So that's another story. I completely forgot after, you know, when I heard him say it, the initial story was that Bob had told Isaac to show them these fishing holes. And then the later story came out was that when they got back to the campsite, Dior and his parents, Bob and Isaac had already been fishing and they had fish. And Dior was like, oh, I want those fish. I want to get fish. Where'd you get them from? And then they all started walking down towards where they got the fish from. And Jessica kept looking back and she saw him. So she knew he was still at the campground because that doesn't make sense. If he said to show me where those fish are, then you'd think that she would be like, hey, why aren't you coming with us? You know, because you wanted to see where the fish were. So yeah, the inconsistencies in the stories, the stories are changing, the stories are evolving, and they can't really get it together.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I could see how that would definitely be troublesome where this whole time I've been thinking they were going to go fish. Dior stayed behind with Bob. Now there's a version where they actually got back from fishing. No, where Bob and Isaac got back from fishing. Okay, they got back from fishing. No, where Bob and Isaac got back from fishing. Okay, they got back from fishing. And then Dior and his parents got back to the campsite and Bob and Isaac were like, oh, look at these fish we got. And Dior was like, show me where you got those fish.

That's completely, yeah, it's a completely different story. Something's not right there. Yeah. So when Frank Vilt resigned from the case, he was asked what his theory was as to what had happened to Dior. And he brought up the fact that Jessica had two other children from a former marriage that she did not have custody of, which is true, but Jessica claims she didn't lose custody of her children. It had been a mutual decision between herself and her ex-husband because he was more financially well off, and he'd be able to provide for the children better.

Jessica claimed that she still saw her children regularly, and she had not given them up because she didn't want them, but Ville wondered maybe Jessica had made arrangements to have Dior adopted by someone else, either with the knowledge of her fiancé Vernal or without him knowing about the arrangement. And that's why he seems genuinely shocked and she's not talking that much. Who knows? Jessica says this is absolutely not what happened and she would never give up Dior in a million years. And if this is true, because let's just entertain it, that means pretty said maybe she had arranged this and nobody else knew about it besides her. And she had arranged for these people to meet her at this campsite.

She quickly goes off really quick. And then she's like, ah, where's Dior? That was kind of his version of events and the other people. What's your thought on that? I don't think it's likely. Okay. Why? I don't know. I

just don't... I don't know. How many of these weird secret adoptions happen? Is this a common thing? First off, wasn't this campsite that they went to kind of a last minute thing? Very. And it wasn't Jessica's idea? Well, it depends whose story you're going by. Because it was more Bob's, right? Allegedly, yeah. But then, you know, Vernal's telling a story that they're there to celebrate. So in that way. Yeah. I mean, not having all the information, it's tough to say one way or the other. I think it's an elaborate story.

Wouldn't be the most craziest thing to ever happen. It happens. We know what happens. People sell their kids all the time. Just seems like you could probably do it a little. I mean, I guess you need a reason for why he's going to go missing. It seemed like they were also like very not in a great place financially. You know, like she couldn't hold a job.

You know, she admits like, yeah, I gave my my children up and let my ex-husband have a custody because I thought he could provide for them better because he's financially more well off than I am. They'll be evicted from their apartment shortly after this, things like that, you know, for not paying rent. So it did seem that there was some financial struggles happening. Frank Vilt was not the only person who began to question whether Dior's parents were telling the full story about what had happened to their son. At the end of January 2016, Leimhai County Sheriff Lynn Bowerman officially named Jessica Mitchell and Vernon Kunz as suspects in Dior's disappearance. Bowerman told CBS affiliate KBOI that Dior's parents were being less than truthful, saying, quote, they are the top persons of interest. Does that mean they're suspects? Yeah, I think so. They know something. I just don't know what they know. It causes me alarm. I believe they know where he is. Absolutely. End quote. Sheriff Bowerman claimed that officials had become suspicious after behavior analysts returned to them with their findings, which included inconsistent stories and failed lie detector tests.

Bowerman told NBC Dateline, quote, We first became real suspicious of mom and dad after their initial polygraph tests taken several weeks after Dior went missing. Then this past weekend, when the FBI handed over their reports and interviews, that's when we made the decision to inform the public, end quote. They initially became suspicious after only a couple of weeks, but then the FBI comes in and they do their own investigation. They go back over everything. They go back over the initial stories, the timelines, interview the witnesses. And when they hand in their report, that's when Lehigh County and the sheriff are like, OK, we can we can finally like kind of put it.

We feel good about it. So they know the significance of naming the parents like that. I mean, they know the pressure that's going to be put on them by the public. So they have to be really certain about it, which is always sucks for us, right? Because we only have a piece of the puzzle. There's probably an abundance. So much. That we're not seeing that really is over the top.

That's really like implicating them, right? Yeah. Yeah. For them to do this to them, that's significant. And it definitely means they have something that's compelling enough for them all to feel confident, including the FBI, to feel confident enough naming them as the main persons of interest, including not even short of suspect. So yeah, that's not good. Us not having everything is a bummer because I'm sure we'd probably feel

the same way if we knew everything. I knew I would get you. How'd you get me? Finally. Well, as soon as the police say like, yeah, it's legit. Frankvilt, screw that guy. No, no, no, no. If you go back and rewind to what I said, I said I loved what he said. I loved what he said in the first two thirds of that statement.

I just feel like it lost a little bit of power with me because money is never, when you're discussing a kid, it's not, regardless of the rumors out there about me or anything like that. My main point that I want to get across in that letter is I don't believe you. You guys are lying. I think you know what happened to your son. And for that reason, I'm out to have any mention of clearing my own name. I can do that in a separate thing, a separate public statement. We're talking semantics here. It doesn't take away from his findings. It doesn't take away from his investigation, which I never even hit on. I just felt like at the end there,

I got a little bit as a PI myself. I didn't love that being in there. I think it could have been handled differently and made his statement even more powerful. But as far as what he said, I had gave him credit about the 19 located children. It's impressive. So for him to come to that conclusion with his resume, you have to take what he's saying seriously. I just felt like he lost me a little bit at the end there. It's just like a prong of it. It's one prong of it. The whole theory, the whole investigation, the whole case, it can't balance on that one prong, but then you start adding other ones. I agree. And I bet you, I don't know the guy, but I bet you if he had to do it over again, he might've taken that section out and maybe put a whole separate thing out about it. Because at the end of the day, not being reimbursed or whether you got paid or you didn't, we're looking for Dior.

That's all we care about right now. Yeah, I think it was more like his reputation. He didn't want anybody out there to think that he was that kind of like. Because I do think PI firms can sometimes get this bad reputation for being seedy and sort of like scams. And for the money. Yeah. sometimes get like this bad reputation for being like seedy and you know sort of like for the mums yeah so you know it probably for him was like a blow to like his professional persona yeah you know to each his i listen he might disagree with me teach it to each their own so apparently sheriff bowerman claimed that the parents could not pass the section of the polygraph where they were asked

if they knew where dior was or if they knew what had happened to him. He said, quote, we have given them too many opportunities to tell us what happened, if it was an accident, and there's been no interest in going in that direction. So that tells me there's only one other possibility. It has to be homicide, end quote. I don't put much weight into polygraphs, first of all. We've talked about this in other cases before. So like for me, this is another prong. I guess the polygraph is like another prong holding the case up but it's like a thin it's a thin prong you know it's not the strongest prong of all the prongs so i just i

don't know like i hate and you know this isn't he's not saying this just because of the polygraphs because that happened just a couple of weeks after dior went missing. No, there's more. There's a lot more. Yeah, there's a lot more we don't know about. So that's, I mean, for to say it has to be a homicide, like you've got to know something, right? Those are strong words. Yeah, those are very, that's a very strong statement. And I don't know how he gets to that point with what we know, but that's why we have to keep reminding ourselves what we know is a fraction of what we know, but that's why we have to keep reminding ourselves what we know is a fraction

of what they know. And if we had access to everything, we might also feel that way. But they're not going to put all their, they're not going to put all the information they have out there because if they believe these parents did kill Dior, they want to prosecute them one day. So, you know, they got to be careful with what they share. Exactly. And that's what he basically said when he was asked that same question. Like, well, are you going to make arrests? Are we going to put some charges down? And he was like, not yet, because I don't want to run into an issue of double jeopardy.

Like, when we go to prosecute this case, we're going to come correct. And it hasn't even really been that long. I mean, six, seven years, about seven years. Since it happened, that was 2015, seven years. Yeah, no. And also, it's always hard. And we've talked about it before. It's hard to charge someone with a homicide when you don't have a body.

You don't have a cause of death, manner of death. There's an assumption there. But you have to have a lot of evidence if you're going to charge someone and hope that it sticks in court without even a body to determine that this person is definitively no longer with us. I agree. I think that no body thing is really a big, what do they call it? I forget. A hold up? That's a problem? Yeah. It's just like it's a- It's a hurdle? It's not good. you imagine you find someone guilty so the prosecutors charge this person they're found guilty by a jury and then all of a sudden the child is located because they

were abducted 10 15 years later no i think they'd be more worried about like trying to bring them to trial without the body having them be found not guilty oh that yeah that too of course and then dior's body is found oh that's an, as far as double jeopardy, I guess, usually with double jeopardy, this is me, I'm not the guy for this, but if you found the body afterwards, I thought there was an exception with double jeopardy that would allow you to charge them when something of this magnitude of evidence comes forward. I don't believe so. I don't, maybe not, maybe not.

But it's unfortunate because I think we've talked about cases before and with double jeopardy, it's probably unlikely that, right, if they find his body afterwards too late now, you just took your shot, you missed, they're walking free. Yeah, like if tomorrow,

the Florida or Orlando Police Department gets a video of Casey Anthony committing the murder of her daughter. They still can't do anything about it. How stupid is that, by the way? It's in the Constitution, man. You know? Yeah, that thing's pretty strong.

But that's there, though, so that like they don't just go to trial with like no evidence because then you got to count on the jury who I mean, if we're going by like Casey Anthony's jury, we're not super strong in like the intelligence department. So then maybe you have people who are going to prison because there was not a lot of evidence against them, but maybe the jury just didn't like them or the jury was like along for the ride or the prosecutor was super like charismatic, you know, and then they want them to be able to go to trial with like enough evidence to actually convict. So they do the double jeopardy so that when the lawyers go, they're like, okay, we've got everything we need and we couldn't do any better. They don't want them to just half-ass it, I think. No, and that's a good reason to do it. I'm not opposed to it.

There should be some sort of like exception if evidence is found that proves their guilt though. Right. If the person comes forward and says- But that's a slippery slope if I'm thinking about it. Yeah. It's no perfect system. We always say it about the judicial system. It's flawed. We talked about this at CrimeCon. It's not anywhere near perfect. And there are some things where people are so smart, lawyers and prosecutors, where if you give them an inch, they take a mile, both sides. And so it's a game. We've talked about this. It's a game in there. And the chess pieces are human beings. So it's tough. It's tough. And I'm definitely not statement, the family of Dior had brought on a new private investigator to help them find out what had happened to the two-year-old boy. But as it turned out, this new P.I. would not be any more friendly to them than their previous one had been.

And he would discover more information and inconsistencies that did not look good for Jessica Mitchell, Vernal Coons, or Jessica's grandfather, Bob Walton. And that is where we will pick up in the next episode. Very interesting case. It's unfortunate that we kind of only have one side of the story, because the people telling or narrating the story where you're kind of going over their information are the people who could also be responsible for Dior's- Yeah, unreliable narrators. Right. So going over their information, if you're to take it at face value, it sounds like they're completely innocent. And I still doesn't mean anything. I stand behind the

fact that in that interview with Vernal, nothing stands out to me. Nothing stands out to me, you know, nothing stands out to me and that's okay. But having two independent investigators who at least the first one, you know, he seems like he knows what he's doing and then having the police more so and the FBI all be on board with naming them persons of interest in this case, that's pretty substantial. Not a good look, as you just said, for those individuals. And to come right out and say like, they're lying and we think this is a homicide, you know, usually the police don't give that much information. And I remember I saw an interview with one reporter who was covering this and she said she was stunned when she got on the phone with Sheriff Lynn Bowerman, because usually as a reporter, she feels like she has to pull every tidbit of

information and they they hold so much back. And he just like went all in. He was like, yeah, they're lying, man. I don't trust them. And I don't think that their story is true. And there's too many inconsistencies. And he was just volunteering all this information and it surprised her. You know what happens in a case like this? So if it's a collaborative effort where they're all equally involved, you might not have much luck. But the reality is there's usually someone who's the leader or somebody who committed the offense. And the others are just individuals who are now going along for the ride for whatever unjustified reason they might have.

You got to break them. You got to separate all them. And that's why police will usually wait for there to be dissension among the ranks, right? So if, if Vernal and Jessica are involved and maybe it's Vernal who did it or Jessica, whatever the case may be, it looks like if this is true,

it would be Vernal, right? He's doing all the talking. If they ever separate and there's a problem between those two. Oh, they've separated. They're separate already. They separated and they both got married to new people. I feel like Jessica got married within like six months after her son going to slip up. Is Bob still alive? Nope. Damn it. Okay. So 2015, they figured that was going to happen.

So it could go to their graves. But I always like to say, if more than one person knows, it's no longer a secret. If two can keep a secret, one of them is dead. Or that. That's a good one, too. That's a good one, too. Yeah. And I want to mention about Isaac, though, because he's the only non-family member on this trip.

And so right off the bat. Yeah, just bringing him into the equation. Well, it could be him. He's the only non-family member. I want to mention that Isaac's story has stayed consistent. He is the only person who has had their story stay consistent. And I don't take him as somebody who would lie. And you're going to understand what I mean when you see interviews with him next time. He he's very childlike. He doesn't seem like he would even have, I guess, the capability. Yeah. Like not even the inclination to to to lie he you know my so for instance my brother-in-law has asperger's he's older than me but he to me he's like a 14 year old boy because that's how he acts he's not he wouldn't ever be

somebody who would lie because it's just not something that would ever occur to him to do you know he's not um he's not like that he's not sort of like manipulative like an adult would be. He's not devious like an adult might be. He doesn't even understand why there would ever be a reason to lie. And so when you have people like that, and I do think that Isaac has some like, um, mental issues that may be, you know, stunted like his brain growth. And he does seem very childlike in a lot of ways innocent naive and he's the only person who's told the same story consistently to everybody he's talked to throughout this so that adds a whole new wrinkle doesn't it no it does and i and again impartial

party maybe not directly involved but he was brought there probably because of Bob, right? Like that could all be true. And he might've been brought into something that maybe Jessica and Vernal didn't want, you know, but they couldn't make it too obvious that they didn't want someone there. And so they kind of rode with it because of maybe his mental capacity, right? Figuring he's not going to be hard to kind of, you know, do this around. And maybe they led him away to the creek from the campsite that afternoon purposely to like get him out of the area. I'm going to tell you what, out of all the cases we've done, this is the one where I almost want to say, okay, I know we're stopping here, but we're going to record part two right

now because I got to know. I'm being dead serious. Like I really want to know because there's not a lot here. And I feel like you have a lot more to say. So there's a great six part series and they're not long parts. They're like seven minutes each. If you want to just pop them on while you're working and go through them. It's called Little Little Man Lost and a news network did it.

If you want to just watch those while you're going through it and you'll see interviews with Grandpa Bob and things like that. And maybe Grandpa Bob Walton. So we'll see. This case is all over the place. But it's unfortunate because you're doing a great job covering it, but it's like limited information. We're going over everything they're saying. You have the 911 calls, all those things, which are, you know, that's something to go off of. But a lot of what we're hearing is from people who are now persons of interest. So that really puts an asterisk next to all, everything they've told us. Yeah. And I'm really excited to come back

because like it gets real down and dirty in the next part. Like fingers are pointed at each other. Like you said, you can keep a secret if one of them's dead. Every single one of them pointed their finger at Isaac. Not like he did it, but like, you know, I don't trust him. You know, stuff like that. Even Grandpa Bob. So we're going to talk about that next time, guys. Yeah.

We'll see you then, guys. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye.