Crime Weekly - S2 Ep72: Blaze Bernstein: A Diary of Hate (Part 2)

Episode Date: April 8, 2022

The experience of going away to college is a memorable milestone in each person's life. It is usually the time when we transition away from childhood and start down the path of adulthood. We often meet new friends whom we would not have encountered in our hometowns, and we are exposed to different cultures and ideas that can be explored and enjoyed. This was what Blaze Bernstein was looking forward to when he began attending the University of Pennsylvania in the Fall of 2016, and for a young man who was already exceptional, a wider array of personalities and experiences served to bring to light the man he would surely become. Blaze always faced each new chapter in his life with curiosity and bravery, because his hunger for learning and growing was endless. But when he flew back home to California for winter break, he encountered a challenge that he could not defeat with his light and love. On the evening of January 2nd, 2018, Blaze left the home of his parents to meet up with an old friend, and he never came home. He was not on the plane that was supposed to fly him back to Pennsylvania for the start of the new semester on January 7th, and on January 10th, Blaze’s brutalized body was found in a shallow grave, his bright and promising life snuffed out by ignorance and hate. Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

With McValue at McDonald's, you don't just get deals on the drinks. You get deals on McDonald's drinks. So when you're breaking a sweat, embrace the chill without breaking the bank. And when your crew is running on empty, keep your wallet full while refreshing the squad. Ace the vibe check with drinks like lemonade, frozen Fanta Blue Raspberry, or any size drink for just $1.49. Limited time only, price and participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

And I'm Derek Levasseur. So today we are continuing on with part two of the Blaze Bernstein case. But let's let's talk a little bit. Once again, this is an upsetting case. I like to, you know, have a little lightness before we dive in because it just pisses me off. So let's talk about something fun. And what is more fun than what's about to come up at the end of this month, which is CrimeCon in Las Vegas. Derek and I will be there. We're so pumped about it. Are you excited? I'm super excited. I'm excited to see everybody. We have a few things going on from what I'm hearing. It's going to be over 5,000 people attending an event that we all are all there for the same thing. You know, we're all there because we're invested in true crime. And listen, if you're hearing this or watching this, we're hoping that you stop by the booth and come see us. If you purchased your ticket using our code, make sure you come to the meet

and greet. We're currently setting that up. We do have a couple updates in the works. Should be pretty fun. Maybe some dinners and some food, some drinks. We're working out all the logistics. You will definitely know. Definitely some drinks. Definitely some drinks. Definitely some drinks. It's Vegas. And if you emailed us with the image, by the way, with the image of the ticket, some of you haven't done that. Make sure you're sending the image of the ticket. If you're doing that, even though we're not responding to you, we have you on a list and we can always go back to it. And so, you know, we're looking forward to seeing you guys at the meet and greet, but if you're just going to crime con, we will have a booth

on podcast row. Make sure you stop by to check it out. Stephanie and I invested in the booth itself. We got a pretty cool, like backdrop. We got the front panel. Um, we're going to have a TV set up with our YouTube videos playing. So we put some work into it. We'll be building the set the day before. So please stop by the booth. Say hello. We'd love to meet you guys in person.

And I think it's going to be a really good time. It's going to be awesome. And you probably know because we've sort of been teasing it for a while. Derek and I have been working on a big project for several months. We have been working so hard because we wanted it to be ready for when we go to CrimeCon because we want to announce it while we're at CrimeCon. We want to be able to talk to those of you who are there about it. We want to be able to show it to you, have you be able to hold it, touch it, see it. And we can't tell you exactly what it is yet. I know

it's killing me. It's killing me. And I know it's killing Derek too, because we put so much hard work into it. Blood, sweat, and tears, all of that, you know, late nights, early mornings. And we want to tell you now. It's kind of like when you get a present for somebody and you know they're going to like it, but then you can't wait to give it to them. But you still have to wait. That's what I feel like. Yeah. And it will be cool for the guys who are there in person, because as Stephanie just said, the girls,

you're going to be one of the first people to, to interact with it. But we are going to do a YouTube live almost simultaneously. So don't think if you're watching at home, if you're listening on audio and you, and you want to check it out, the announcement is going to be, you know, make sure you're following us on YouTube because we'll be doing a YouTube

live. We'll do something on our Patreon as well. And, yeah, really excited about it. It's something we're super, you know, passionate about. We think you guys are going to get a lot out of it. But also we've been talking about how we can give back, how we can do more to help the people that have been affected by tragedy and also try to do something to prevent tragedy from happening in the future. And this was something we came up with where we feel like we're all going to collectively be able to combat the issues that we face every day,

the dangers that are out there. And so we're really excited about everything that this project represents. And we are hoping that you guys share that excitement with us they will you guys are gonna love they will yeah i think they will too i think they will too we're really we had something come up today where we just signed off on the final stage of something and it was really surreal to get to that moment because in the beginning it felt like we never would so to have it come to fruition after we've kind of thought about it in our brains for so long, to see it was

really exciting. So I won't say anything else. We're like teasing the shit out of it and it's like it sucks we can't just say it now, but sure enough, less than a month, I promise you, we're having a harder time not telling you about it than you are going to have to wait for it. Derek was like super excited this afternoon. He was like I was super pumped. He was like a little

boy on Christmas morning. And I was like, cause I don't get excited about things until they happen. You know, it's my curse. Well, the thing was it was, it's not only the project, it was the idea of having it in person for you guys to interact with. Like that's something out of our control. And we were pushing the timeframe to try and get to that point. And I got confirmation today that more than likely, knock on wood, barring any setbacks, we will have it in time for when we fly out to Las Vegas, which it was a big undertaking when we started. It wasn't a guarantee that it was going to happen, but we worked hard. We kept our noses to the ground and it a guarantee that it was going to happen, but we worked hard.

We kept our noses to the ground and it does look like it's going to happen. I can't wait to see your reactions in person to it. I'm just going to sit there and just kind of watch you guys and see what you think. And if you don't love it, let us know, but just tell us when we can't hear you. No, you'll love it. It's our baby. You have to love it. So we'll be offended. If you see a little bit of me die inside, if you point out something. Personally offended. Yeah. It's like, oh, something about this isn't it? It's like, you just see us walk away.

We're like, nope, can't handle it. No, it'll be good. Excited about it. But hope to see you guys there. Check it out. We did say we're going to put a deadline on it. It'll probably be sometime mid-april on crime con he means on like signing up for for crime kind of the meet and greet you just transition you did give them no no roadmap that's why you're my partner yeah

there you guys that's why you're my partner you got my back you know so we're transitioning to that we're gonna cut it off probably mid-april because we have to give a head count for any of these establish it's nfl weekend so they all kind of want an idea of how many people are going to cut it off probably mid-April because we have to give a head count for any of these establishments. It's NFL weekend, so they all kind of want an idea of how many people are going to be there. So it's not because of us, but it's just like we have to give them somewhat of a number and we don't want to add more people after we've locked something in. So we'll probably cut it off mid-April.

If you haven't already done so and you're going to come buy a ticket, use the code. And if you haven't sent it to us yet, please do that as soon as possible. We want an accurate head count so that we plan for enough food or whatever else is there. So nobody's sitting there eating their napkin. We won't let that happen. No, I'll just take Stephanie's food from her and give it to you. No, I'll have eaten it already. Trust me. And then I'll drink the rest of my dinner. We're going to have fun, guys. That's what I'm having. I'm having a liquid lunch for sure. Yeah, a liquid lunch.

Wait, are you having lunch and I'm having dinner? No, a liquid lunch. You never heard that phrase before? Yeah, but that's like if you're at lunch. You can't say liquid lunch if it's like five o'clock at night. Then you're drinking your dinner. No, no. During lunchtime, have an alcohol instead of, I don't know when we're going to do it time-wise.

We're looking at some different windows where we can do it. It's going to be like the evening. Yeah. It will be more closer to dinner than lunch. So you're not having a liquid lunch. You're drinking your dinner. There we go. I'm drinking my dinner. I stand corrected. Okay, cool. The details matter. All right. So let's dive stuff. And I believe I saw this on Instagram, but I believe I suggested in the first episode that the high school Blaze Bernstein had attended, the Orange County School of the Arts. It was like this expensive private

school because that's the way they made it seem. Like, to be honest, every single article I read was like this prestigious, like hard to get into school, et cetera, et cetera. But a listener did correct me and let me know that it's actually a tuition free donation dependent charter school, which considering the level of education that these students receive, that's actually really impressive. So I wish, you know, other states would catch up because that's that's a good education to get from a public

charter school. No. And thank you to the listener for weighing in on that. We're doing these cases every single week. And Stephanie does 99.9% of the research, if not 100%, unless it's something that a case I'm familiar with. And when you think about that and how involved these cases are that we cover, you're bound to get things wrong, to put it simply,

because you're going off information that's out there. Again, the turnaround time is very short. Our episodes are very detailed. So if you guys figure out something that needs to be corrected, by all means, weigh down in the comments, let us know, send us an email. When we first started the show, there was an episode where the photo photo was wrong and one of the episodes where we had put up a photo of someone crystal baslanovich crystal baslanovich which exactly and so someone pointed it out we were made aware of it i found a way to edit it through youtube editing software

we corrected it and that was the end of you know that was the end of it so it it happened before i can promise you as we continue this it'll happen again and as long as you're respectful We corrected it. And that was the end of it. You know, that was the end of it. So it happened before. I can promise you as we continue this, it'll happen again. And as long as you're respectful about it, we're going to be respectful right back. And we want to make sure that our information is as accurate as possible. And in some cases, we will need your help to do that. I mean, I did go to the website because I want to check it out, you know, and it did. There was no like tuition, but also like usually private schools, they ain't just posting their tuition on the front homepage. You know what I mean? Like you've

got to request that. It's in the fine print. Yeah. It's like you can't even really find it on the website. Like you've got to search for it or call the school. So I was like, oh, it must be really expensive because they are not posting it. But that's awesome. I hope I hope that, you know, they continue offering that kind of education, tuition-free. That's amazing. Before we dive back into the timeline, I want to talk about the mindset of Sam Woodward in the weeks and months leading up to Blaze's murder. Now, for those of you who need a quick catch-up, because I know it's been a week, Sam Woodward is the person who was arrested for killing Blaze. In the last episode, we discussed how Sam had been kind of an angsty kid in school,

and he turned into an angry teenager. And he sought refuge on the internet, where he found like-minded individuals on forums like iFunny, and this led him to becoming a part of this violent extremist group called Adam Waffen. And this is a group that basically defines themselves with hate. Hate towards people who are different than them. People like Blaze, who was Jewish and gay. I mentioned also that Sam Woodward kept a journal, which he wrote in often. And this was a journal in electronic form. So he's not keeping an actual notebook and writing in it. He's actually sending an email to himself. And this email was titled Sam's Diary of Hate.

And then it looked like he would just sort of add on to the email thread as he updated the journal. But keep in mind, this journal was legitimately titled Sam's Diary of Hate. And later his attorneys are going to argue this isn't a hate crime, things like that. But he titled it Sam's Diary of Hate. And obviously that doesn't say this is a hate crime, but it shows you he was filled with hate. What an incredible piece of evidence, though, from an investigator's perspective to have when you're trying to decide whether it's a hate crime or not, if it was premeditated or not, to have this running digital entry of some of the feelings that this individual had towards another or a particular group of people. Because it's, you know, it's black and white and it's something that, you know, can be altered down the road, but with forensics, the way they are, you can basically tell when these journal entries were made, you know, dates, times, you know, how far in advance they were to, you know, incidents that occurred, were they edited later? Were they, were they changed or deleted before, you know, before or after the incident in question?

Um, it's almost better than having it in handwriting in a journal or a notebook, right? Because it's something where we talked about Lacey Peterson, where this is journal entries and the speculation as to when it was actually written because there's dates on it. But those dates can be altered and there's really no way to tell when they were altered. But with this type of entry, with this email chain or whatever it is, with the computer forensics the way they are, that is something that can be dissected very quickly and verified or discredited. So

what a valuable piece of evidence to have as a detective when you're trying to develop a case and even more so for the prosecution. That was Casey Anthony, right? Remember whether she had that journal and she said, whatever is supposed to happen is going to happen. And then they couldn't distinguish whether it had been written like far before her daughter Kaylee died. And that's kind of exactly with this diary of hate on an email thread. Everything is time stamped and date stamped. Thank you for correcting me. You're absolutely right. And I should never confuse those two names. So I do apologize. But yes, you're right. Casey, Anthony, Lacey, Peterson, obviously a different person. We covered them so close together though, remember

the cases and we were so entwined with them for so long. We were. And when you're constantly juggling through these names, it happens from time to time. But I do apologize. There is no connection or similarity between those two women. That's for damn sure. You are forgiven. Thank you. So in this journal, he wrote some terrible stuff, terrible stuff that you're almost surprised a kid like a 19, 20-year-old kid would write.

I can't believe how much hate he had in him. And he wrote basically, you know, he was looking for gay men on Grindr and he would find these gay men on Grindr and he would sort of like have a conversation with them, build a rapport with them, and then he would send them pictures of other gay men being killed.

He would literally find these pictures and I don't know if he got them from the internet. Probably he got them from his Adam Woffin group, you know, but he would send these pictures to these men. They'd be terrified, and he was amused by their terrified reactions. And two weeks before Blaise Bernstein's murder, Sam posted a picture of a bloody knife on Snapchat with the caption, quote, texting is boring, but murder isn't, end quote. Now, obviously, these things don't make a murder. These things aren't going to be used as concrete proof in a court of law, but they do speak to a pattern, a pattern of behavior, a pattern of his mindset at this time. This is two weeks before Blaze is killed and he's posting a picture of a bloody knife. And it wasn't like a picture. It was like an illustration, you know, a drawing. But it's a bloody knife. Texting is boring. Murder isn't. So we have we have an escalation here, I think. Yeah, it's definitely escalating towards something where maybe he wants to experience it for himself. It seems like he's kind of fantasizing about the idea of murder, maybe idolizing people who have committed murder. And so that's something definitely to consider when you're talking about premeditation, right? Like if they're absent of all of this, when we're talking about blaze, an argument could be made that this was self-defense,

you know, a crime of passion, maybe, you know, temporary insanity for whatever reason. But when you have all of these factors, um, they can't be ignored. And I'm sure the prosecution, you're going to get to that. There's still a trial to be had for this, but I'm sure that's going to be a big part of their case to lay out the idea that this was something that was weeks, if not months, if not years in the making. Yeah, they definitely believed that it was premeditated. And I mean, I don't know how it works with premeditation. Like, let's say somebody's planning a murder, but they don't know who they're going to murder, right? They haven't picked their victim yet. But for two months, they're like, I'm going to kill somebody. Does that still count as premeditation, even if they didn't plan on or plan to kill this specific person?

I would say yes, right? A hundred percent. Yeah, it's just like a mass shooting. You know, you could go into a situation where you know what you're going to do. It's good. You want to cause as much damage as possible. You may not care who the victims are. But this was obviously something that was orchestrated prior to it occurring. Same thing happened with the Boston bombing, right? They went there with the intent

on causing as much damage as they could and taking as much life as they could. They didn't really care who it was, men, women, children, young, old. They just wanted to make sure they killed a lot of people. So when they placed those backpacks down, they didn't really give a crap about who it would affect just as long as it affected as many people in the surrounding area as possible. Monsters, by the way. Glad one of them's gone. Wish the other one was as well. We'll have to cover that case at some point because I have some personal connection to that. That was Watertown, Massachusetts, where they had the shooting after that bombing. I was working that night. There were bulletin boards. I was hearing the radio, really crazy stuff. But

that's another example of premeditation where there's not a specific victim in mind, and yet it's still premeditated. And I would almost say that's even worse, because that shows you really don't even have a motive besides to kill. It doesn't matter who you kill. They haven't wronged you. There isn't some financial motive, some relationship there. It's just like, I want to take a life, and I just haven't picked it yet. And I think that's where he was at. I mean, he's sending pictures of dead men to other gay men in an attempt to terrify them and to possibly make them think that they were next, that he was going to find them and track them down. And that's terrible. You know, it's obviously sending pictures of dead people isn't the same as killing somebody, but it is a sign of an escalation and it's a sign of somebody who's an asshole because you're

terrifying people. You're making them scared. Now they're in their house thinking like, does this guy know where I live? Who is this person? Is he after me? Why would somebody random just do this to me? And now you're paranoid and you're living in fear and that's messed up. All right, we are going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. Blaze Bernstein was lured out of his home late on the evening of January 2nd, 2018. Just about 24 hours prior to that, Sam Woodward was trying to locate Cruz. If you remember, Cruz is a man that Sam had met online. They developed a close friendship based on common ideologies. They were both into this Atomwaffen group. Just after

midnight on January 2nd, Sam went online and began asking around to see if anyone had heard from Cruz. And he was told by a few people, you know, don't worry because Cruz is known to sort of like drop off the map and then be MIA for a period of time, but he would always return eventually. Later on, Sam logged onto Tinder and matched with a former Orange County School of the Arts classmate who we are going to call John. So Sam reached out to John with a message that said, quote, well, that's a face I haven't seen in a while, end quote. But at this point, John didn't really know what to think because he remembered Sam from high school and he remembered that like there had been rumors that maybe Sam was gay. But he didn't remember Sam being overly friendly or outgoing.

And he said, quote, Sam was choosing to be isolated. If you went to talk to him, it wasn't like he wanted to talk back, end quote. And this goes along with pretty much everything we've heard. And I understand why both of these young men who went to school with Sam and who were contacted by Sam, because there was somebody from the first episode too that Sam had been trying to sort of talk to in high school about being gay and the experience and coming out. And then he tried to get together with this kid. And the kid was like, no, both of these people are going to be taken aback because Sam's not a friendly person. He keeps to himself. He's not, you know, sharing the interests of the other kids. He's like drawing, you know, horrible words on his play and stuff like that. So all of

a sudden he's like connecting with you and he's trying to like find out about you and he's being all like, hey, that's a face I haven't seen in a while. You know, it's going to come off as insincere and a little suspicious, I think. Yeah. I want to double back because, you know, I want to make sure I have the dates right. We know that Blaze, as you just said a couple of minutes ago, left his home late evening, January 2nd. OK. And then you just were saying how on midnight on January 2nd, Sam went online and began asking around. So Blaze left his home at like 1130 PM on January 2nd. Got it. Okay. So this is like 24 hours before this. Yeah. So basically the first into the second. No, the second into the third. So that's what I'm saying. So Blaze left his home late on January 2nd and within a few hours, just after midnight.

So technically January 3rd, Sam went online and began asking around about Cruz. This is January 2nd at midnight. So it's like just turned January 2nd. So it's like the morning of January 2nd. And then on the evening of January 2nd, Blaze meets up with Sam. These behaviors that you're describing was before Blaze ever left his home. Yeah. That day before. Got it. Yeah. Asking about Cruz, connecting on Tinder, this all happened before the interaction between Blaze and Sam. And I almost wonder because it seemed like Cruz was the closest friend to Sam Woodward.

Like, remember, he'd gone and spent some time with him in Texas, and they'd gone and, like, visited Denver to see their profit together. I wonder if Sam was looking for Cruz because he was feeling a little bit like he was about to do something, and maybe Cruz would be the person

who would talk him down sometimes, because later, Cruz was like, I can't believe he did this. Well, maybe Cruz was balancing him and Sam's looking for him and he doesn't find him. Is this a factor? They never really say, but I wonder if that was it because Cruz wasn't around and Sam was worried about him and he was like, I'm kind of worried about him. Does anybody know if he's okay? Where's he at? He could have been feeling stressed. He could have been feeling abandoned or rejected. And this is a guy, Sam Woodward, who I don't think handles negative feelings well. He doesn't seem like somebody who's action-packed with coping mechanisms. No, I would agree with that. And just to think about the person we're referring to as John, now that you've laid it out for me, to think that this individual had the intuition to kind of see between it and know something was off

and not go to meet Sam, who knows what would have happened if he did? I'm sure this person thinks about it every day. Could he have been in Blaze's situation? Yeah, because that's what it looks like, right? It looks like Sam was fishing for a target. And this was his first option, right? This was someone he reached out to when that didn't work, moved on to Blaze. But man, talk about dodging a really bad situation. This person, John, might be the person we're referring to right now, if not for his intuition not to go. Because he's contacting local guys too. He's contacting guys he went to high school with. So he knows they're local. He knows they're in the area. He knows there's an opportunity and a chance to meet up that night. He's not finding some random guy on Twitter or Tinder. I mean, that's 25 miles away. He's he's

looking for someone close by that he can meet up with that night. So I definitely think and that once again, that's even more screwed up and it shows more proof of a hate crime because this was a young man who was gay. You were trolling for gay men that night to find someone to meet you. And John, you know, took a look at Sam's profile and I guess he saw like Sam had posted pictures of like shooting with his father and stuff and doing target practice. And John was like, nah, I'm good. Yeah, I'm going to decide not to even respond back. He didn't respond back.

And then what happens then? Then Sam goes on to the next one, and that's Blaze. And Blaze is like, yeah, let's meet up. Because he doesn't think anything nefarious is happening. Why would he? Why should he? Well, think about the mindset of Sam, right? Why is he reaching out to people that he knows from the past? He's trying to get someone with their guard down. He's trying to come from a place of

familiarity. Hey, you remember me from high school. Clearly, I'm not a bad guy because that's always a situation with these dating apps, right? If you're meeting someone for the first time, people joke about it, but you could be meeting up with someone who's a murderer. You don't know that, you know, if you're meeting them out of the blue, like and you're meeting them in an area where there's not other people around. People have there's tons of cases of that. They do it every day. They do it every day. You know, we had the Craigslist killer pick up on the fact that this is completely odd. They'll look at me as a, you know, someone they knew from the past, never had any bad experiences with, and maybe they'll let their guard down and come out and find themselves in a vulnerable situation. So I think he was intentionally trying to find people that maybe he recognized for this purpose. So they came out, maybe not thinking like most people think when they're going on a blind date, they would think, oh, this is an old friend from high school. This

is a safe one. When in reality, it's the exact opposite. And he wasn't just looking for people. He was looking for gay men because he wanted to- Specific target. Yeah. He wanted to hurt someone and he wanted it to be somebody who was gay. And that's why he was specifically looking for those that he wasn't messaging girls and saying, hey, what's up, you up? You know, you want to meet up? He was messaging gay men. And, you know, I think a hate crime can sometimes be hard to prove. But I think in this case, he's proving it. No, it's a great point. It's not just random people, both men and women. There's a specific person that he's looking for, which I do think will tie in at court to the idea that this was a hate crime because he was looking for someone

with a specific sexual orientation. And that was men looking for other men. So at 11.36 that evening, Blaise Bernstein texted a friend of his, Lily Williams. And she was a friend of his, Lily Williams. And she was a friend from high school as well.

She knew both him. She knew Sam. And he basically told her, like, listen, you're not going to believe what's happening. Like, I've been chatting with Sam Woodward. And now we're together in the parking lot of the Foothill Ranch Hobby Lobby at this exact moment that I'm texting you. Like, this is crazy, right? And this is about 20 minutes before Blaze's phone shuts off. It was around midnight when Sam and Blaze headed across

the street to Borrego Park, at which point Sam claimed that Blaze walked off and he didn't return. We've heard this story. Now, from phone records, we know that around 4 a.m., Sam began sending Blaze messages on Snapchat asking where he was, what had happened, if he was okay. This would have been after Sam claimed that he waited a while for Blaze to come back before going to his girlfriend's house, a girlfriend whose last name and address he didn't remember. And then he returned to Borrego Park later to see if Sam had come back. Now, obviously, we believe that these Snapchat messages were simply Sam trying to like lay a false narrative because check it out. I mean, Borrego Park, it was within walking distance of Blaze's house. Like you could walk

there in 10 minutes. And if Blaze had wandered off and then he came back and he found that Sam had left, his ride had left, he most likely would have just like walked home. You know, he wouldn't just sit in like a dark public park in the middle of the night at like 2, 3, 4 a.m. and hope that Sam comes back to get him. You know, it doesn't make any sense. No, not at all. I couldn't agree with you more.

He's laying the foundation. We've talked about this in other cases as well, where you're trying to create that window of opportunity, that window of opportunity where you were not with the victim and someone else could have caused this act. Someone else could be responsible for what you think people will eventually find out. And so he's basically creating a gap, a window where he can say, hey, listen, I wasn't there. So whatever happened to him, I wasn't involved. But you said about 4 a.m., right? Yeah. That's a long time between midnight and... Because you said it was about 20 minutes later when Blaze's phone went off or whatever it was. So you're talking about four hours.

His phone went off right when they entered the park. So in my opinion, I personally think Sam attacked Blaze as soon as they walked into the park, you know, because Blaze's body was sort of located on the perimeter of the park by like the elementary school. They weren't deep into the park. I think that they walked into the park and as soon as they kind of got into like maybe like a little shaded area, that's when he attacked. I think he was this is just my opinion okay this hasn't been proven but based on the fact that they would have entered the park right around midnight and blaze's phone just shut off right around midnight i mean blaze wouldn't have shut his phone off

sam would have probably done that after he killed him right right so make sure nobody's tracking him or can see where his phone location is and i I think you're on to something there. I know we touched on it briefly, but just for anyone who doesn't recall there was, you know, it's believed that the cause of death, you know, blades were stabbed 19 times in the neck. We'll just get right to it. And so with something like that, there's a lot of blood. There would be a lot of blood. And from what I understand, from what you've explained to us, there was, there was blood found in Sam's vehicle, but not the amount you would expect to see if the attack had occurred inside the vehicle. So I would agree with you in that sense, where if you're going to do something like this, you don't want to be responsible for the moving of the body. Cause again, creating more trace evidence, opportunity connected to you uh so you would wait until you were in a spot where hopefully no one would see what you're doing so i think you're i think you know this is a good speculative but i think it's

pretty sound yeah and i forgot to mention last episode i was listening back and i was mad at myself my bad but there was blood found under sam's watch too. So I think when they mean under his watch, I mean like on the back of it, you know, because there's all those like grooves and stuff. So what I think happened is he killed Blaze in the park. He hastily buried him. He's got blood on him. He gets in his car, probably pushes the visor to get it out of the way of his face. He leaves blood on that, you know, that doesn't come off. He tried cleaning his car and he may have gotten the visible blood off,

but there's still going to be traces of blood there. And he's got it on his watch and he's washing his hands and he probably even washed his watch, but that blood got so deep into those little grooves and things that they were able to pull it with a swab. And I do think that's something we should bring up because I feel like there's sometimes a misconception when even on TV shows or on podcasts, when you bring up the fact that there was blood on his watch. When we're saying that, that's not necessarily saying that, like, if you were to take off the watch, you would see this big red splotch on the back.

It could be microscopic. But when you're wiping these things down, it could be just with a little pad. There might be just a little black dot on the back of the watch. So when she's referring to, oh, there was blood on the back of the watch, it could be as big of a, as a quarter, or it could be something you can barely see with the human eye. Um, but they were able to, there was enough there to analyze it and match it to blaze. So that's important.

Cause I do see that sometimes, even when I was working the OJ case where, you know, they're talking about all this blood that was on OJ socks and all these things like there were, it was visible to some extent, but it was a small amount. Um, it wasn't like his socks were like, you know, basically saturated with blood. So what are you saying? He's innocent. Oh God, let's not even go there. If anyone wants to check, I mean, pretty obvious what I think. But, you know, it's something to point out because I do think when we talk about these cases, sometimes, you know, criminals do make an attempt to hide what they did. So they do try to clean themselves off as well as they can. But I think it's a great thing what you said.

There's all these nooks and these crevices in certain things where even though you're cleaning on the surface, you might not have the tool or the capability to clean out those areas. You don't even see it. You don't know it's there. Yeah. So when you start swabbing these items and your used tools to get into those crevices, that's what they're looking for. CSI detect, they're not specifically looking for the obvious spot. They're looking for the spots where even if you cleaned, you might've missed. We saw it on some of the rocks when we had the, again, was that the Crystal Bislon, in which case? Yes.

With the rock? Yep, with the rocks. Right? So they weren't cleaning the surface of the rocks. They were looking at the crevices, the parts, the cracks, the parts that even if you had cleaned those rocks, you wouldn't be able to remove that evidence. And it might even be protected by those crevices. So again, good, good police work so far. All right, let's take a quick break.

We'll be right back. So obviously, we know that Blaze was not waiting for Sam when Sam claimed to have returned to Borrego Park. Blaze had not walked home to the safety of his parents' house. By the time Sam sent those messages, Blaze was dead and hastily buried, as Derek said, stabbed 19 times in the neck. He was even stabbed once in his left knee. So there was clearly some sort of struggle that was going on. We know there probably was because Sam himself was wounded on his hands. What he told the police, he had, you know, he had gotten these injuries during his fight club. But I don't believe that's what happened, even though Sam does appear to have been in some sort of fight club. Now, according to the authorities, while Sam Woodward was under surveillance, he did return to the scene of the crime several days after the murder.

And they never say why. We don't know exactly why Sam would have returned. I can't imagine why. Maybe to see if, you know, Blaze was still buried, still hidden, because he knew that the authorities were searching Brago Park and the surrounding area, the nature park, right next to it. So maybe he wanted to make sure the body was still covered. Maybe he wanted to make sure they hadn't found Blaze and just not announced it yet. I'm not sure why he would do that, why he would return to the scene of the crime. Yeah, your guess is as good as mine. We can speculate. I think some would say for the reasons you just said, he was trying to get an inside scoop as to whether or not they had found him and just not announced yet, because if he is responsible for this, he knows where Blaze is buried. And I'm sure his defense will be, listen, he was my friend.

I was the last person to see him. I feel responsible. I was going down there to see if I could help in any way. Will we ever know the truth of what his intent was when he went down there? Probably not. Only Sam knows. But I think depending on what school you're in, you're going to be on either one side of the fence or the other. I wonder if that's how they found Blaze's body by following Sam to the area, because I can't imagine Sam just goes to Borrego Park and he's just like walking around the park and that's giving him some sort of like satisfaction or some sort of goal achieved i feel like if he's going back to the scene of the crime

he's going back to the scene of the crime and remember they had searched for so long and they didn't find blaze and then all of a sudden they did and they said it was because it rained you know it had rained heavily and that like moved around some of the soil and made it possible for them to find him. But I wonder if it was more that they followed Sam while he was under surveillance. Well, if you remember the press conference, that's kind of what the, you know, the speaker for the police department stated. It was something where they said this involved, you know, good police work, good surveillance.

And I'm sure when it goes to trial, that may be part of it where we find out, as you just mentioned, Sam himself was hovering around the area. This is a big area to cover. And they're trying to focus their search and they have a person of interest who keeps hovering around a specific area. Do you think they would focus their efforts on that area to look for disturbed dirt or grass? Of course. So it might be something where he didn't go stand over the exact spot, but they were maybe able to make a grid search based on where he was kind of looking and the direction he was facing and where he kept going back to. And from there, they were able to locate the disturbed area where Blaze was ultimately buried. I have to think that the only reason he would go back is to make sure that Blaze hadn't been

discovered yet, because like you said, if maybe they'd found Blaze's body and they were just trying to figure out who had done this to him, he would have ran. He would have taken off. Maybe that's why he had the camping gear in his car, you know, in case he had to leave at a moment's notice. And if he found that Blaze had been found and had been uncovered, or maybe he was just hanging at the park to see if the police were looking in that area. And as soon as they got close, he could be like, all right, I'm taking off because the only criminals that I know who like return to the scene of the crime, they're usually like serial killers, you know, people like that who take trophies. I don't know of any kind of like one off murderer to just return to the scene of the crime unless he's worried about getting caught,

which it's a stupid thing to return then if you're worried about getting caught but yeah yeah i think but we have to remember he's not aware that he's being surveilled so you know i don't think he would have gone back there if he knew that the police were following him and so we're giving the benefit of the doubt but it could have been as overt as him literally like you know for people who watch it on youtube where he's specifically looking at it in a certain direction for an extended period of time when he's not doing that anywhere else. And so we might be making seem like it was more passive. He might've been more blatantly obvious than we even know, but I can promise you this. If they're surveilling him, they're taking good notes. They might even be recording video. I would hope that in notes. They might even be recording video.

I would hope that in a murder investigation that they are recording video to document the behaviors they're seeing. And if we find out at court that that's the case, what a compelling thing to show a jury eventually that this individual out of this whole park, even though he dropped them off at a specific location or he lost contact with him at a specific location when they surveilled him, he was looking directly in the direction where Blaze was ultimately found and it was not in the immediate vicinity of where he had dropped him off. They can paint that picture themselves. They can put two and two together as jury members. To be honest, I don't even think based on, I mean, cause this kid, as far as I know, Sam, he's been through three lawyers now and we'll get to that. But I don't even think they're going to try to like, actually, no, they're probably going to try to say he's innocent. But there's really no denying

that he did this. Blaze's blood was in his car on the murder weapon. You know, the murder weapon is this knife that has Blaze's blood on it. And Sam's dad's name was etched into the handle. So you can't even say that's not your knife. You can't even say somebody planted the knife now. This is your knife, Blaze's blood. You were the last person to see him. You don't even remember the name of the girl who you were supposed to be visiting. You don't remember her address. You've got his blood under your watch. You know, your hands were dirty because you dug a hole with your hands. Your hands were all scratched up because you were in an altercation. You basically, you know, have this history of feeling very negatively towards people like Blaze. Where's the I'm innocent here? Like where where's there's there's

not even anybody who can say, oh, here's reasonable doubt. I don't even know what the reasonable doubt would be. No. Yeah, you're right. And we're qualifying some things. I think I've said it a few times now, but this case is yet to go to trial. And so, you know, for legal purposes, we have to qualify things. But I think you and I are both under the same opinion. It's just our opinions that we do believe Sam is responsible for Blaze's murder. But we're not the police department. Obviously, the police do too, because they arrested him for it. They arrested him. They charged him, right? You know, so yeah, I agree. And so when you hear these things, we're qualifying some. I know you guys love that. I'm not qualifying. Derek is. I it's it's my nature and you will appreciate it when you

know we're protected because of it yes yes okay okay so on january 5th three days after blaze was murdered sam woodward took to the adam waffen chats to post a message saying quote i just wanted to let you know i love you so much end quote so he's saying i just wanted to let you know I love you so much, end quote. So he's saying, I just wanted to let you all know that I love you so much. He's talking to all his Nazi buddies. Sam mentioned that he was thinking about the passing of life and that he had been truly grateful for their time together. He did not admit to having murdered anyone, but obviously when he was arrested, his online community, they found out because it was in the news and their reactions were mixed. Some of Sam's friends were shocked with a guy who was

going by the name of Snow claiming that no one knew Sam was going to do it. It wasn't like he was in these chats like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm planning it. What do you guys think? Getting pumped up by these guys. Allegedly, according to Snow, no one knew, not even Sam's closest friend, Cruz. Many of the They also were pleased with the fact that Sam's actions might further their cause. One user wrote, quote, we're only going to inspire more copycat crimes in the name of AWD. That's Adam Woffin Division. All we have to do is spread our image and our propaganda. The growing fear is what we set out to do and it's working exactly how I wanted it to The same user went on to say, quote, And another member responded,

quote, to be honest, we need to stay out of the news for a bit after all this bullshit because having too much exposure can fuck us over. End quote. Another member wrote that Sam had done something stupid, adding that it wasn't that he felt Blaze hadn't deserved to die, but his life was simply not worth going to prison for. The Atomwaffen members also discussed if there was someone in their ranks who was talking to the media because ProPublica, they actually ended up publishing an expose on Atomwaffen and they released the real names of many members who had been posting on these message boards. So ProPublica, I'll link it and I'll have Derek link it in the description box, but it's basically this expose and it shows what they said, what their real names are, what handles they posted on, on these Atomwaffen message boards. And it really pissed Atomwaffen off. And one member wrote, quote, we really owe those Jews at ProPublica, end quote. Yeah, you'll have to give me that link and I can post it in the description area.

You guys can check that out if you want. There's really not much to add to that. It's pretty self-explanatory what we're seeing, what we're hearing here. Really bad group of individuals. And they really only have one purpose and it's to get rid of a specific group. They're labeling Jewish community, people who are different sexual orientation than themselves. So it's something where there are many groups like this out there. It's a sad part of our society. And unfortunately, there's only so much you can do initially when they're just, you know, people are online, but having groups

put their information out there, you hope it serves as a deterrent. But it's tough to hear. It's tough to hear that there are people like that. I know in my field of work and obviously you covering these cases, it's a sad reality that we're all aware of, but it never makes it easier to accept. No, I mean, there is something for me. There's something to add because this is Sam Woodward guilty of sin, in my opinion, allegedly. But did he act alone? Did he act alone? Now, I'm not going to blame everyone else around him for egging him on because allegedly he wasn't planning it on these message boards. group mind mentality where no one is being the sane adult in the room and standing up and saying, like, guys, this is wrong. This is messed up. They get out of control. They spiral out of control. There's no checks and balances. And what these people are literally saying is, as a parent, it kills me to think you could lose your son and then know that people were celebrating his murder and wanting to use it as propaganda to further the movement, to further get more people into your ranks of Atomwaffen,

and your son's death is being used to do that as what they called propaganda. This is going to help us get more assholes like us to join up with us because they know we're like men of action and we're doing something about it. We're not just talking about it like those other groups, like one of us went out and did something about it. That's a problem. That's scary. Yeah, no, I agree. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. So even though, for us, the motive is pretty clear, the authorities needed to prove that this was a hate crime in order to charge Sam Woodward effectively. They had proof that Sam had traveled to Texas in order to attend Atomwaffen meetings as well as a three-day training camp, which involved instruction in firearms, hand-to-hand combat, as well as camping and survival skills. ProPublica obtained photos of Woodward at this camp,

and one of the photos showed Sam and other members wearing skull masks and making straight-armed Nazi salutes. Social media posts and chat logs showed that Sam had described himself as a Nazi, and an unnamed acquaintance from the group claimed that Sam was as anti-Semitic as a person could be. On January 17, 2018, the Orange County District Attorney, Tony Rakakis, announced that there would be a bail hearing for Woodward, claiming that bail would likely be set because, quote, it's a murder case, but it's not a special circumstances case, end quote. So to understand what that means, we have to look at California law. In 1972,

the United States Supreme Court ruled that it was unconstitutional for juries to impose the death penalty on a random handful of defendants, but not others. So basically based on the jury's whim, you know, like, oh, we don't like how this defendant looks or we think his crime is worse than others. So we're going to just arbitrarily hand down the death penalty. So California's law on special circumstance murders exists partly to address this concern. Because of this law, juries cannot impose the death penalty on someone found guilty of murder just because they feel like it. Instead, a murder defendant can only be sentenced to death if they are convicted of first-degree murder and if the murder involved so-called special circumstances. And there are several special circumstances that can exist, but for our purposes today, the one that matters the most is if the murder happened because of the victim's race, religion, or nationality. In other words, a hate crime. After making this announcement to the public, it was reported that prosecutors had convinced a judge to remove the option of bail

and add a sentencing enhancement for using a knife in the murder. Orange County DA Tony Rakaukas also announced that the investigators had not ruled out the possibility of a hate crime, and they would continue to search for evidence that might support any special circumstance allegation, which would make Sam Woodward eligible for life in prison without parole or the death penalty. Instead of, I believe it was 26 years, he would have gotten without those special circumstances, which is bananas to me that you can murder somebody and get sentenced to 26 years. But here we are. Rakalkas said, quote, we need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt before we can even talk about why this happened,

end quote. Later, the DA would amend the charges against Woodward to upgrade it to a hate crime. Today, I'm here to announce that immediately following this press conference, the Orange County District Attorney's Office will file an amended complaint, which I have a copy of here. This complaint is going to add a hate crime enhancement accusing Woodward of intentionally committing first-degree murder due in whole or in part to Blaze's sexual orientation. We will prove that Woodward killed Blaze because Blaze is gay.

This increases the maximum penalty to life without the possibility of parole. The evidence was developed by examining Woodward's cell phone, laptop, social media, and other digital evidence revealing the dark side of Woodward's thoughts and intentions. The investigation is continuing and we're looking for information that would help prove that Woodward, who is accused of being in possession of a large number of texts and images, that he intended to murder Blaze based on factors of hate in addition to sexual orientation. These images are graphic and chilling, can be described as spewing hate towards almost every protected group. They may be described as racist, homophobic, anti-Semitic,

misogynistic, and anti-government. Anyone with information that shows that Woodward's membership in any organization that promotes hate is encouraged to contact District Attorney Investigator Corey DeGraffenried. Sam Woodward was initially represented by attorney Edward Munoz and together they entered a plea of not guilty. Munoz claimed that his client had some issues that had made him more susceptible to being manipulated by online propaganda, saying, quote, he has Asperger's disorder. He has a lot of issues, I think, around sexual orientation, end quote. Now, I realize you guys don't have to correct me that today we don't call it Asperger's

any longer due to its namesake, Hans Asperger's, who has recently been identified to have been a Nazi sympathizer, ironically enough. But I was quoting directly, so don't come for me. I can't make the quotes more politically correct because I'm not being accurate. Knoss was asked also to explain the racist and violent content that Woodward had posted online, and he responded that it was important to understand the social difficulties that his client faced due to his autism spectrum disorder, saying, quote, they don't formulate lasting personal relationships in their life. They're very isolated people. That leads them to go where they're accepted. He is a blonde, blue-eyed young man. There's only going to be certain clubs he's going to be allowed into, end quote. Dude, I'm

agitated about this. I call bullshit on almost all of this. I personally know several people who are on the spectrum, including my own brother-in-law. And I mean, he's not the most outgoing person, but he does have relationships that he's maintained over the years, you know. So to say like, oh, because he has this autism spectrum disorder, like he doesn't have good relationships. He doesn't have strong relationships. It's just a generalization that's not true. And I'm sure it's true for some people, but that's also true for some people who don't have an autism spectrum disorder. So it's just a ridiculous thing. And additionally, what pissed me off the most to say that Sam, because he has blonde hair and blue eyes, so he's only going to be allowed into any club that he wants to be allowed into. You know, if he'd been friendly in high school, if he'd stopped, you know, drawing Confederate flags and writing slurs all over his homework and stuff, he could have been in any club.

He could have been friends with anybody. Because he has blonde hair and blue eyes, nobody's walking around like, you can't sit with us. That's ludicrous. I mean, Derek, you have blonde hair and blue eyes. Nobody's walking around like you can't sit with us. That's ludicrous. I mean, Derek, you have blonde hair and blue eyes. Do you feel that you've been unable to find your place in this world because of your blonde hair and blue eyes? Do I have blonde hair? Yeah, you have blonde hair. GlassesUSA.com needs to upgrade your subscription. I'm looking at it right now, man. It's like dirty blonde. It's darker because you have gel in it, but when you don't have gel in it, it's way lighter. It's blonde. What would you call it?

Stephanie, I have brown hair. Okay. So Derek, you have brown hair and blue eyes. Yes. Stephanie was about to tell me what color hair I have, guys. If you're watching on YouTube, weigh in. Tell me that his hair is dirty blonde because I'm looking at it right now. It is. You definitely need your prescription updated. GlassesUSA.com, hook her up. Subjective, man. Subjective? No, it's factual. It's brown. You have dirty blonde hair, but anyways. That's not blonde. You have allegedly brown hair and blue eyes. Have you found that you have been barred entrance to groups of people or certain

clubs or certain cliques because of your hair color and your eye color. No, I haven't. And I would even go as far as saying I don't believe Munoz believes this either. We've talked about it in the past. We're not going to beat a dead horse here. But, you know, attorneys not saying they're bad or good, just saying that they will look at a case. They will review the facts and circumstances of that case. They will review the person. They will interview the person that they're defending and they will try to find something that would explain away whatever they're fighting, whatever they're defending. And in this case, this is the route that he chose to go. It's an argument he's putting forward to try to present

some form of reasonable doubt and or to try to maybe give some sympathy for his client. But just because they put it out there doesn't mean they necessarily believe it and doesn't mean that anyone else in the world will either. But A for effort, I guess. This is stupid. At this point, the victim's blood's all over you. All of this terrible damning stuff is coming out about you. If you're a good defense attorney at this time, you tell your client like, dude, try to cut a deal. Everything is pointing at you. You are the most unsympathetic person I have ever met in my life. And if I go out here and say this stupid shit I'm never gonna get a job again no one's

gonna take me seriously because I mean this guy's gotta stand behind his words now that he said this because he can't go and be like no I don't actually believe this I just said it to defend him it's like you said this this is next to your name forever which is which is upsetting I have one more question for you because of your brown hair and blue eyes, have you ever felt the urge to run off and become a Nazi and join some Nazi group? I just want to see. Not lately, no. Yeah, no. It hasn't crossed my mind. You were like, my hair and my eyes, no one wants me. I have to find like-minded and like- I tried to get into those groups, but yet because my hair is not blonde, I wasn't accepted. You could just frost it, like frost the tips, you know?

Well, I wouldn't have to because my hair is blonde, according to you, right? I mean, I think you could be more blonde. You know, you could be like more blonde. Okay. I didn't say you were blonde enough, Derek. I just said you were blonde. You're like the blondest person. You're like a Viking over here, but you know, you're blonde.

Oh man, I can't wait to read these comments. It's like me saying, it's like me saying, no, Stephanie, you get it. Oh man, I can't wait to read these comments. It's like me saying, no, Stephanie, you get it. You're a brunette. You understand. Yeah. You could say, listen, I guarantee you half the people who are watching on YouTube will say that you have dirty blonde hair. What's the bet? Because you're a man. So you see things in like, oh, you either have a black hair, brown hair, blonde hair, or red hair there's no like in between you know it's the it's like a crayon box there's all different variations there's all different shades i i wouldn't say you have brown hair it's like dirty blonde okay dishwater blonde i would be surprised that there's one person that agrees with you in the comments well now they're gonna do it just despite you well yeah i mean you shouldn't have said obviously so sam's lawyer

edward munos also claimed that there was going to be evidence that would come out during the trial that showed Sam Woodward was very confused about his sexuality. And this is what you had brought up in the first episode when we talked about this. It was one of the first things you said where you were like, this seems very much like a self-hating person who's going after the thing that he hates about himself. And that could be part of it. It could be true. Sam could have joined this group specifically because he maybe did have feelings towards men and he was trying to suppress it. Either way, to me, it doesn't matter why you did it. I don't care if you're confused about your sexuality that's that's fine deal with it but you don't make that anyone else's problem and that's what he's done so i don't know i'm surprised is is uh is muñoz still representing sam no okay well i was gonna say after that comment i'm sure sam was like wait what that's what i'm saying though

right yeah yeah muñoz is gone yeah even if Sam is confused about his sexuality, he can never admit that, right? Because- His buddies are going to be seeing these transcripts. His buddies are going to be seeing these transcripts. They're going to be reading these articles. And not only that, imagine how many Adam Waffen or like neo-Nazis are on the inside in prison where Sam's about to be going. He's going to get torn apart in there because he was one of them. And then now he's using this as his defense. You know, that's like a thing you don't do. You you can't be one of them and then come in and be something that they hate. They'll they'll kill him. Yeah. Yeah. No, it would not be good for him. And I would speculate that Sam would

rather go to prison than get off using this defense. Yes, he would rather go to prison as long as this was not used as his defense. Right. Yeah. Right. So Munoz also argued that there was no evidence of a hate crime because most of the writings on Sam's phone were emails he sent to himself in his diary of hate. And Munoz said, quote, I think in a hate crime instance, you have to have an outward manifestation of your loathing to the world, end quote.

Like, did this guy go to law school? I think. He's like saying, like, in my opinion, you know, I don't. It's ridiculous. Once again, it's just ludicrous. I think it's pretty obvious that Sam shared his hate with others. You know, he did write horrible things in his online journal, but he also did so in the groups. And a hate crime doesn't have to be announced to the world to be considered a hate crime. In this context, hate simply means a bias against people or groups with specific characteristics like the color of their skin, who they love, who they identify as, what they believe in, et cetera. Have you ever heard that before? It's not a hate crime unless you speak it out loud. You can hate someone as much as you want in your head and then go and

kill them, but it's not a hate crime unless you tell someone else that you hate that person because they belong to a certain group. Yeah, no, I think there's something more, less than direct information saying that, and you could take the totality of circumstances surrounding his behavior, what he wrote in his digital journal, what exchanges he's had on these blog sites, these different forums to kind of build that case. and we'll learn more as the trial starts, that it's not so much going to be a question. It might be for Sam and his legal team, but it's not really so much of a question as to whether he committed the crime or not. It's more so about the fact of if it's going to be labeled a hate crime. That seems like what's really going to be the topic at hand here, because that does, as you've explained to everyone, make a huge difference. You know, it could be different from 25 years and he's back on the streets and he's still very young.

So he would, you know, if his health stays in order, he would be a free man at some point, or could he be given the death penalty? Big difference. So I really do think that's going to be the pivotal aspect of this trial as it goes forward, because as you mentioned earlier, there's not a lot here that creates a level of reasonable doubt as far as his involvement with Blaze's murder. There's multiple pieces of evidence that connect him to it. So it's really going to be more about this, this element of special circumstance. Yeah.

I mean, like, listen, this is probably a blanket statement and I don't typically like to make them. And that's why I'm prefacing it with this, but Nazis, when they go into prison, they usually don't are like them, people who look like them. If Sam goes to prison, he's going to hook up with a bunch of guys who have the same beliefs as him, and they're just going to, once again, reinforce that in him. He'll probably come out worse. So I would not like to see somebody go into prison as somebody who believes in these Nazi ideals and have them come back out in 25 years, because he's going to be a 45-year-old man, even more dangerous than he was when he went in. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back. After promising to show all this evidence that Sam Woodward was sexually confused and a socially awkward victim, Edward Munoz stepped down from

the case. Nobody ever said why, never made a statement. And he was replaced with public defender Robert Kohler. And this pushed the trial back so that the new attorney could get acquainted with the details of the case. In November of 2018, with his new lawyer by his side, Sam Woodward listened as Orange County Superior Court Judge Kimberly Menninger revoked his bail, which had previously been set at $5 million. Robert Kohler argued that for bail to be revoked, there needed to be clear evidence that Woodward's release would result in great bodily injury to someone on the outside. And according to Kohler, there was no evidence of this. Kohler initially had tried to get his bail reduced to $1 million, and when that didn't work, he argued that it should stay at $5 million, saying, quote,

Mr. Woodward can't make $5 million bail. Therefore, raising bail to no bail only negatively impacted my ability to interact with my client, end quote. I don't know. I'm going to have to look into that. If you're a prisoner because you're in county jail until you go to trial and you are on a $5 million bail or a $1 million bail, do you have a better chance of seeing your lawyer than if you had no bail? I don't think so. saying it because obviously the lawyer can visit him at court. Maybe he meant it a different way, or maybe he felt like it would be more of an opportunity to interact with him and not have to come to prison and see him at his office or at his home or at Sam's home. He can't make the $5 million bail. So why would you argue to put it back to $5 million if he can't pay that? Sam can't pay that. So why would you rather have it $5 million rather than no bail? How does that make it easier for you to interact with your client? Yeah, I don't get it. I don't get it. Maybe I'm misreading it as well. For me, bail is intended to ensure that the individual on bail shows up

to court. It's such a large amount that it would incentivize them to return without fleeing the country or whatever. And clearly, this judge felt that if any bail amount was set that was somewhat reasonable, there would be no incentive for Sam to return and he would be a flight risk in addition to being a danger to others. Yeah, the judge did. She said based on the preliminary hearing transcripts, because they did for the preliminary hearing, they brought in witnesses and stuff who testified. They went over the evidence and she said based on those transcripts because they did for the preliminary hearing. They brought in like witnesses and stuff who testified. They went over the evidence. And she said, like, based on those transcripts. Yeah, I do think that releasing Sam Woodward would pose a danger to the community. And I think that's a good call.

Yeah. I mean, think of what we're talking about here. If you had a situation where Sam had, you know, been drunk and accidentally struck a vehicle and killed someone, a reasonable person can say, listen, this wasn't what this person's intention was. But when you're talking about an individual who's being charged with a crime where the victim was stabbed 19 times in the neck, that's an individual you have to be concerned about and what they're capable of. So yes, the bail would be higher because that person with the allegations being held over the head, the charges pending, they would be more likely to flee the area. And then if you take into consideration that this individual may have a group of individuals who are not family members or friends, but a network of individuals with the same ideology that could help this person flee the area, that would also be a consideration for setting bail. I agree. And I think Sam proved he had a very strong community behind him that were crazy and nuts enough to do anything, you know, to further their cause.

The trial of Sam Woodward was expected to begin in the summer of 2021, but it was delayed after his third attorney, public defender Allison Worthington, requested a delay due to her caseload from another murder trial she was assigned to. Yo, can you imagine you're a public defender and you don't really have a choice in the cases you take? And they were just like, here, here's a Nazi on your docket. Like, you've got to defend this guy. I bet you his lawyer was just like, I need every excuse in the book to pretend I'm so busy and I have so much going on that I cannot possibly defend him. Because if I do, like I'm that person, I'm that lawyer who tried to get the Nazi released from prison forever. Yeah. And I can't imagine, you know, as a defense attorney, some of the people that you have to represent, especially as a public defender, they take an oath too, right? Everyone deserves a defense and they're going to try to represent that person with the highest level of ethics that they can to give them a fair and justified defense to try to,

you know, because we don't know necessarily if these individuals did what they are being accused of. So I completely agree with it, but I see where you're coming from and I agree with you. It must be tough when, you know, for the most part, attorneys are somewhat intelligent people. They can read. So when they look at the transcripts, they look at the evidence and say, oh, this is going to be fine. That's what I'm saying. Obviously, everybody is entitled to a defense, but like case by case basis here, this one. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough to defend and knowing you kind of like have to you have to do it so uh in recent court filings allison worthington noted that this other

case that she was working on this other murder trial it involved a large amount of pre-trial litigation and she also mentioned that once she was done with that trial she had five other criminal cases scheduled for september of 2021 when the then-District Attorney Todd Spitzer heard about this request, he stated that it was unacceptable for Blaze's parents to have to wait four years for the man who was accused of killing their son to go to trial. The trial was tentatively scheduled for November of 2021, but at that time, it was pushed again to March of 2022. Judge Kimberly Menninger said that she did have empathy for Blaze's parents, but she didn't want to risk a retrial due to an ineffective defense. So basically, yeah, I understand we want to get this done in a timely

manner, but we don't want Sam to come back and be like, oh, my attorney Allison was so wrapped up with other cases that she didn't have enough time for me. He could use that to his benefit to declare a mistrial at a later date or to get a new trial. You know, and they always try to do that. Scott Peterson tried to do it. It's saying they had ineffective counsel. It's kind of a go to for an appeal. Yeah.

I mean, attorneys before, you mean, attorneys eventually become judges. So this judge at one point was an attorney herself and knows the tricks of the trade and knows what could be used. And she's trying to prevent that. She wants to, she's definitely considering the parents in the situation. And that's why she's making this decision. She doesn't want them to have to relive this again. So although they may not see it that way at first, which we don't even know if they agree

with this or not, they may be completely on board with it. I believe Blaze's mother was an attorney, correct? Yeah, she went to law school. Yeah. So there you go. So she understands the process. She knows the game. And she probably agreed with the judge on this because you want to try to limit the amount of excuses that the defendant could come up with if a guilty verdict is found. Yeah. I mean, you cannot like something and understand why it has to happen at the same time. Right. I bet Allison Worthington was like, yeah, you're right. He should get a trial right away. You're

going to have to put someone else on it. That's what I would be doing. Sorry, can't be there. I'm so busy. So a spokesperson for the Bernstein family, William Weinberg, he told the OC Register that Blaze's family had become emotionally exhausted from all the delays. And he said, quote, they lost their son, but they want to see justice done and for this part of their lives to be over with and see Woodward brought to justice. It's frustrating. It's four years in January. It's just aggravating to see delay after delay, end quote. And I mean, that's probably, yeah, that's probably what they're feeling. It's aggravating. They want to see justice. But at the same time, they understand why it has to happen. And they're trusting the process.

Because so far, I think the police, law enforcement, district attorney, they did a good job with this case. They were right on it. They suspected Sam, I believe from the get-go, probably from the moment they interviewed him. And they started following him, put him under surveillance. And because of that, we have a lot of evidence that we might not have otherwise. And that's where we are now.

So it appears, you know, because March, that was last month. March, it should have been happening. And it appears that there still has not been a date scheduled for this trial. The last time I checked, which was this morning. I do want to talk about the possibility that the defense will be used, that Sam Woodward was sexually confused, although I don't see how that's possibly a defense because that's just a motive, you know, as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't mean that you're not culpable because you were confused about your sexuality.

Former Orange County District Attorney Tony Rakalkas doesn't think that Sam was confused. At least he said, quote, he doesn't claim to be sexually conflicted. He claims to be somebody who hates gays and wants to cause harm to them. Sam Woodward is a hater. He hates homosexuals. He hates people who are Jewish. He hates people of all different kinds of categories who are not white, end quote. So basically what I'm getting from that, and they don't come right out and say it. What I'm getting from that is they were probably, they probably asked him, like, were you sexually confused? Because he's going to use this for his defense, according to his initial attorney. And Sam was like, absolutely not.

No, that's not what's happening here. So clearly he's not personally saying that or else he wouldn't he wouldn't claim otherwise. Right. That's right. There is some movement on other crimes involving Atomwaffen members. In September of 2021, Caleb Cole, the leader of a Washington Atomwaffen chapter, was convicted on five federal felonies for conspiracy to threaten journalists and Anti-Defamation League employees. According to records and testimony, Cole and three other Atomwaffen members participated in a plot to intimidate journalists and others by mailing threatening posters or attaching the posters to the victims' homes, and they focused primarily on those who were Jewish or journalists of color. The posters,

created by Cole, claimed that the recipients had been visited by their local Nazis, and they contained threatening images like a hooded figure preparing to throw a Molotov cocktail at a house. According to Justice.gov, another poster contained the words quote, death to pigs, which was the same message that Charles Manson had his followers write in blood during a home invasion murder in the 1960s. Caleb Cole was sentenced to seven years in prison, and one of his co-conspirators, Cameron Shea, was sentenced to three years. I have both his cell and office number, and now we have his address. New video tonight shows the moment a neo-Nazi group plotted to threaten a King 5 investigator who was reporting on them.

And it comes as a jury found that man guilty of threats to journalists and the Anti-Defamation League. So the video was played during the trial of Caleb Cole, a leader in the white supremacist group. It only took 90 minutes for a jury to decide that Caleb Cole is guilty. I wasn't surprised because I thought the evidence was overwhelming. And they came back so quickly that I was pretty confident when I heard the verdict was coming in that it was going to be guilty verdicts. Cole was found guilty on five federal counts, including conspiracy, mailing threatening communications, and interfering with federally protected activities. Those charges came from his plot to send these posters to journalists and members of the Anti-Defamation League, a plot that was caught on video by an undercover FBI agent.

Yeah, we're having a bunch of the guys around the country, well, find the home addresses of some of the journalists all over the place. That's Cole seen talking about his plan to obtain the home addresses of his targets in order to send them these ominous posters. It's just like a hey, we know where you live. That's a reminder. Just just a little friendly reminder. During opening statements, the defense stated that this plan came after King 5's Chris Ingalls visited Cole's Arlington home in October of 2019. But I want to be clear that I went to his house in my function as a reporter to get his side of the story. That's why I went there. I didn't go there to harass him, intimidate him. I went there to hear his story. The Guardian reported that Cole

had visited Eastern Europe in 2018 and made pilgrimages to sites associated with Nazism, posing for photos with the Atomwaffen flag at Auschwitz. In 2019, he was detained for 42 days under Canada's anti-terrorism laws and banned from the country. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. In May of 2021, John Cameron Denton, a former Atomwaffen leader who goes by the handle Rape inside the group, charming username, he was sentenced to 41 months in prison for his role in a swatting conspiracy, during which he and other members reported false claims of pipe bombs, hostage-taking, and other violent activities to the authorities in the hopes of bringing a forceful police presence to the home of an unwitting third party. According to the New York Times, their efforts

led to attacks at 134 locations across the country from October of 2018 to February of 2019. Authorities have detailed multiple swatting attacks on locations such as the predominantly black Alfred Street Baptist Church, ProPublica's New York office, and the office of Kirsten Nelson, who apparently at that time was a secretary of Homeland Security during the Trump administration. In January of 2020, Denton unknowingly met with an undercover FBI agent at his home, and he admitted to using a voice changer when making swatting calls, as well as targeting journalists who had reported on himself and his group, Atomwaffen. Now, there may be some people out there who are like, oh, he just made some prank calls. No, swatting is serious.

Swatting kills people because, for those of you who don't know, swatting is a term that's used when me, if I'm trying to like, if I'm trying to get you killed, I will call the police and I'll say, hey, at this address, there's a man and he's holding his family hostage at gunpoint. He's crazy and he says he's going to kill them. Now the SWAT team is going to show up and they're not going to knock. They're not going to ring the doorbell. They're going to kick in the door with their SWAT team like Ninja Turtle outfits on, their shields, their guns, and smoke bombs, stuff like that. In these situations, things get confusing and people accidentally get killed. They're just sitting there in their house minding their own business. They don't know what's happening. So swatting is very serious. It happens a lot. I think by now at this point, the police and law enforcement are aware enough of the fact that it happens to where they're a little bit more careful now. But it's just, it's crazy. Yeah. On the other end of the spectrum too, you have situations where if there's multiple calls to a house, a specific house or a specific

person's place of business or where they live and multiple calls come in after two or three of those swatting calls, the police response might be slower. And it could be a situation where that slow response leads to someone getting hurt or killed because they thought it was a false quote unquote false alarm. Also, just something to point out, because we've seen a couple of videos now, we had a quick discussion about these organizations, not just Atomwaffen, but also these other groups, you know, about federal agencies being aware of them. What are they doing?

Well, we're seeing here that clearly, although they might not be overtly putting it out there, what they're doing to combat it or what they're doing to monitor it, we have clear evidence that FBI agents have infiltrated some of these groups and are probably, as you and I are speaking right now, still part of these groups and documenting and recording and gathering intelligence so that they can maybe prevent things that these groups may be trying to carry out. Yeah. Okay. So I know I got you scared last time by saying these individuals could be part of every single facet of your life, whether it's politics or business, whatever it may be. That's still true. But just to counter that, there are federal agencies who have integrated themselves within these groups as well and so you know maybe we know more about what's going on than they know they think we know who

knows i don't know because if i did then it wouldn't be a secret more is going on than we know is going on because they're like on it you know they're they're really like working hard at this yeah we don't know what what they prevented. We don't know what they're aware of because that's the point, right? If they expose their undercover agents in all cases, that's a person who may have taken years to get in. And now by, for example, that video that just got put out that you're seeing, right? That agent that was there that recorded that video, although you may not see that person's face, they know who he is or she is, and that person's done. So anything that they could give in the

future, they obviously weighed out the pros and cons and decided to expose that agent for this cause, but that person's done now. They're burnt. And so they are completely removed and that tentacle is cut off where you're not going to get any more intelligence from that individual. So it's a constant battle of how much do you expose because by putting videos like that out, that agent is no longer useful in that capacity. Sure. I respect that. I feel like there's more that they could be doing. In the videos we saw last time, it looked like they had identified five or six of these bases where they do these like tactical trainings and they're posing with like swastikas and guns and shit. Why aren't they raiding these places like every month? Why aren't you keeping these guys off their toes constantly? Because

I guarantee you every time they go in those places, they're going to find illegal guns. They're going to find people making bombs or stuff to make bombs. They're going to find some shit that's incriminating and can put these guys behind bars. But not only that, leave them thinking like, wow, there's no safe place for us to go. That's what you have to do with terrorists. You have to make them feel like there is no safe place in your country that they can go. There's no place they can hide, because even if they're organizing, you will be there raiding their shit, taking their guns, messing with their infrastructure. And then you regroup and you move someplace else. And then they find you there, they smoke you out there and they

raid you and they take your guns and they screw with your infrastructure over and over again until they're just tired of running. And maybe they give up or maybe they go somewhere else. But you can't just let them function until they do something wrong because they're already doing something wrong. You just don't have proof of it, but you would if you went in. Yeah. Definitely a big conversation that we could do a live on. We could talk about it because it's a big conversation. It's something that I'm pretty familiar with because as a member of the Special Investigations Unit for many years, there were many cases where I was 100% or I should say 99% certain that individuals were conducting illegal activities or selling drugs or had illegal weapons in their home.

But the way the system works, and I agree with this, is that you have to have probable cause to get a search warrant for their house. So even though, you know, as the great Denzel once said, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. And even just for a search warrant, you need a judge to sign off on that and give you permission to go in and find what you believe you have. I had so many cases where, you know, I knew a specific house was pushing a certain narcotic and I tried like hell to get one of my confidential informants, you know, or confidential witnesses to make a buy. But these individuals were super selective about who

they allowed around their premise. So it wasn't always the case. It was a waiting game. And that may be the case here. I'm not making excuses for them in any means. I agree with your sentiment. I wish we could just go in there and like you described, just flush out the bad guys. But unfortunately, don't kill the messenger here. They have rights as well. And we have to respect those because if you go in there illegally and you do find something incriminating and you don't have a legal justification for being there, it's fruits of a poisonous tree. And then you have that whole issue come in that that evidence gets excluded.

And now they're walking the streets and the element of surprise is gone. Yeah, I know. Just let me live my SWAT dream. OK, let me live my SWAT team dream. I'll let you, I'll let you live it. But I think, but your sentiment and like the questions you're asking, you're not, a lot of people have those questions. And I think it's something that you and I can really break down one day because that is something that I lived for, you know, 13 years. I started when I was 20 years old and it was an element of my job that was really

frustrating at times. So not for today. We're obviously here to talk about Blaze, but it's definitely a conversation I think we can have at a later date. If you guys want to hear more about that, please wait out in the comments below and let us know your thoughts and we can maybe set something up in the future to talk about it. And just as a clarification, okay, Denzel Washington did not say that his character in training day said it. Do you know the name of the character? No, I can't off the top of my head. What is it? Who is it? Oh my God.

You can't either. It's like my favorite movie. It's one of my favorite Denzel movies, but no, I can't off the top of my head. I can see him. I'm ashamed that I don't know it, too. I'm drawing a blank. We're older now. You know, things come and they go out of our heads. Yeah. But yeah, it wasn't Denzel Washington himself. It was this character, although he probably would say something like that. He's a boss. Twenty one year old Johnny Roman Garza was also sentenced to 16 months in prison after conspiring with other Adam Woffin members to threaten and intimidate journalists who were working to expose his group. So remember in that clip we watched or listened to if you're on audio, the one dude was like, oh, we got guys all around the country. Johnny Garza was one of these guys around the country that was like sort of following these directions from the internet.

In a plea agreement, Garza admitted that he had conspired with Atomwaffen members using encrypted online chat groups to identify these people, and Garza himself authored a message claiming the plot was designed to, quote, have them all wake up one morning and find themselves terrorized by targeted propaganda, end quote. On the evening of January 25, 2020, Garza placed a poster on the bedroom window of a Jewish journalist that depicted a figure in a skull mask holding a Molotov cocktail in front of a burning home. The poster also contained the name and address of the journalist and the message, quote, your actions have consequences, our patience has limits, you have been visited by your local Nazis, end quote.

Garza pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to mail threatening communications, to commit cyber-stalking, and to interfere with a federally protected activity. But, allegedly, he did express remorse before his sentencing, a sentencing which was about half the length recommended by prosecutors.

What did you do exactly that is going to get you sent to federal prison? I was given the task to simply find someone who fit the category of being non-white and a journalist, simply to make the headline. You were to go out that night and put those posters up and take pictures of it as proof that you did it. That was my mindset at the time. It's like, yeah, it's meant to terrorize. You put posters on the home of a Jewish newspaper editor and an African-American journalist.

You really want to just see radical change because you see something. You see something wrong. You see some news stories or something, and you say, I really wish I could do something about that. I thought I could just simply do something of like a minor petty crime thrill and get away with it and just kind of see where it goes. Adam Waffen, the German term for nuclear weapon, is the name of a small but violent extremist group that is armed and training for what they say is a coming race war. Johnny Roman Garza joined as a teenager to escape what court records say was a chaotic and lonely home life in Arizona. I was completely cut off. My heart

was darkened. I really just wasn't even thinking that far ahead. I was kind of concerned with me, myself, and I. My mental illness compounded with my drug use at the time didn't help any of that. Garza, who lives near Phoenix, says he never took part in any of Atomwaffen's so-called hate camp training sessions, never even owned a gun. But he did plead guilty to conspiring with three other Atomwaffen members to deliver those threatening posters to journalists and persons of color. Adam Woffin certainly wants to act more tough than they are. It's just ridiculous. It's almost laughable what they were trying to do. I want to take any notion that it's laughable out of it because my family, my three kids, my wife, we all had to leave our house and go into hiding because of what you and your group did. I started reporting in 2019 about Adam Woffin's heavily armed 25-year-old leader, Caleb Cole of Snohomish County, and that put me on their target

list. I have just noticed something in my mailbox that doesn't look quite right. I didn't open the letter. I brought it to the FBI office and agents opened it and they showed it to me. I did take that letter as a threat. You know, it's covered in swastikas. So there's nothing laughable about that. Certainly not. I just want to apologize from with the bottom of my heart, full heart completely. It's something I should have never have taken part in. You say that and yet you were a member of a group that sought to destroy certain races and religions. I just don't think I was looking that far ahead. When you saw a black person, when you saw a Jewish person, what did you feel toward them? You're looking at someone as the group they belong to.

You're almost looking at them like a number. You're not really looking at them like a person. Adam Woffin members have been charged or convicted with five murders across the country. That's as serious as it gets. We were just putting on posters this time, but who could have known what they would have asked me to do afterward if I was still content with that? Garza said he never knew the true identity of Caleb Cole or Cameron Shea of Redmond, who the FBI says were the leaders of the criminal conspiracy. I didn't know anything about them. I mean, I knew them by screen names.

Garza says his arrest in February finally started him on a road to recovery and understanding. I didn't realize how dark it was that I was willing to do things I otherwise thought that I wouldn't do. I can imagine there's African Americans or Jewish people out there that are not going to accept an apology from you. What would you say to them? I see now how wrong that I was. And it's really hard to really explain yourself after the fact. But I guess I just want people to know that there's like what was brought up to the judge on the day that I was sentenced, there's a genuine change there, but I'm serving my just sentence. So that's all I can say. I'm glad that a journalist checked him real

quick when he said laughable. I was waiting for that. It's good. Good for him. Do you believe him? Do you think he's genuinely remorseful? I don't know. I mean, watching that small piece, he brought up some things about his mental health, about his drug usage. Is it possible? Absolutely. Could it also be an excuse?

Yeah, that's possible too, that maybe he only came to this conclusion now that he's been apprehended. I don't know. I'd have to do more research into it. We'd have to learn more about him. But just taking what he said at face value, it is possible. But from that small little interview that we showed, I don't have enough info on him to be certain about whether he's being authentic or not. The journalist doesn't sound like he believes him. And he was affected by this personally. So, you know, I'll lean I'll lean towards his insight because he clearly knew a lot about this individual and the other individuals involved.

I don't even think it's a matter of believing him for the journalist. It's like I was your victim. This was horrible for me and my family. We were terrified. So at this point, like an apology isn't going to cut it. And, you know, it's kind of like irreparable. I tend to believe that he probably did come out of it and realize like this is messed up because I don't think he would feel safe if he was still a part of this group to say that publicly, like to

go on TV, because now he's going to be considered somebody who turned against them. And that may put him in danger on the outside or the inside, even though he thinks that they are laughable and they're not a threat, which has clearly been proven to not be the case. They are a threat. Sam Woodward was a threat and he got his start there in Adam Woffin. So yeah, I mean, I don't think it matters whether he is or isn't remorseful. He's going to do a family. So it does happen. It does happen where there are individuals who are just in a really bad place and these groups sweep in at the right time. But it's not always the case. And we do find situations where it's now used as an excuse. So yeah, hopefully he did learn from this and he does the right thing with the knowledge that he obtained during his time involved and use it to help federal authorities and other groups combat these types of situations. I agree. It's all pretty dark. It looks kind of like the hydra, like you cut off one head and a bunch more grow in its place. But in the darkness, there is light and a push forward

by those who do have love in their hearts, including the family of Blaise Bernstein, who have started the movement Blaze It Forward. The movement's goal is to make the world a better place with one intentional act of kindness at a time. Every time we do something good, we think of him and we know that we are carrying on his legacy. Blaze Bernstein's parents chose to spend this Martin Luther King Day doing good for the community. The last MLK Day was their son's memorial service. 150 people joined Jeannie and Gideon Bernstein at the Second Harvest Food Bank in Irvine bagging apples.

I'm the executive tie-in. And what is your secret? Tie fast. A movement was formed after the 19-year-old's death. It's known as Blaze It Forward. There was a roomful giving back here today. Because our son was buried last year on Martin Luther King Day, and we wanted to make this a tradition that we do something positive

we get smiles on other people's faces and help to make the world a better place. Knowing today would be painful the Bernsteins organized this day of service and put out the call. Every single slot was filled. It's so incredible because so many people together creates so much more than just one person doing it and THE FAMILY WAS SO HAPPY TO SEE THEIR FAMILY HERE. IT'S SO COOL TO SEE THE FAMILY HERE. IT'S SO COOL TO SEE THE FAMILY HERE. IT'S SO INCREDIBLE BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE TOGETHER CREATES

SO MUCH MORE THAN JUST ONE PERSON DOING IT AND IT'S SO COOL THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO DO THAT. THE WHITES FAMILY FROM NEW YORK DEDICATED PART OF THEIR VACATION IN ORANGE COUNTY TO HONORING BLAISE BERNSTEIN.

INSTEAD OF DOING SOMETHING LIKE GOING TO DISNEYLAND OR SPENDING A DAY AT THE MALL OR going to Disneyland or spending a day at the mall or going shopping in LA, we decided it was so important to just come here and come together as a family and as a community to just help out. This blaze it forward day of service is going to directly help federal workers who are impacted by the shutdown. The apples and a lot of other food is being delivered to pantries throughout Orange County, where federal workers can go and get what they need. That's a really great clip and it's good to see. I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't know how these parents, these families do this so quickly. Obviously,

they're still hurting inside and I can see how they're using this to not only continue Blaze's name, but also for themselves, as it kind of said in the segment where he was buried on Martin Luther King Day. I'm sure it's a difficult time to be alone in your home with your significant other and nobody around with nothing but your thoughts. So to be in an environment like this, where you're constantly staying busy for a cause, it kind of helps to use the feelings that you're feeling to do well for others. So they seem like great individuals. I know they still have a long journey to go with the trial up ahead, but I'm glad to see that they're out and they're about and they're trying

to take the situation and help others. I don't know if I could do the same. So a lot of respect for them, their family, and obviously my thoughts and prayers are with them. And I'm hoping for the best outcome at the trial. Me too. So Blaze's mother, Jeannie said, quote, we feel like it's our moral obligation to try and make positive change in the world. Our son lived in a world where the LGBTQ plus community did not feel safe and can't be who they are. We can't live in that world anymore. We've suffered enough. End quote. Blaze's father, Gideon, said, quote,

We look at this as an opportunity to inspire people to basically make sexuality normative, regardless of what your gender preference is or sexual preference. Our goal is that someday you don't need a pride parade because it's like having a hetero parade. You don't need it, end quote. And yeah, obviously we both fully endorse that statement, like we want to live in a world without hate, even though neither Derek or I occupy any of these protected groups. We're not people of color. We're not in the LGBTQ community. We still want everybody to live in a world where there is no hate, where they're not scared to be who they are, where they're not threatened because of who they are.

We have friends, family members who do, um, hold membership in these groups. We love them. We don't want to see them hurt. We don't want to see them attacked simply because of how they were born. It's awful. So we obviously share that sentiment. And I do as well have a lot of respect for the strength that Blaze's parents have shown. And I mean, it kind of shows you that Blaze was a good kid. He was raised by good parents. They loved each other. They loved him. They loved their kids. They were all close. They did things together. And, you know, it's nice to see that even if it's not a happy ending. Yeah. And we'll keep you guys updated. I know I'll be watching just for my own curiosity to see how this trial plays out. It's not often we cover a case where it has yet to go to trial. We have someone in custody. There's going to be a trial,

obviously. And it's going to be interesting to see how it all plays out because we have some of the facts, right? There's a lot of information that's come out, but I'm sure a lot more will be revealed as the trial is underway. So really interested in that. And we'll keep you guys updated. If something comes out that we were unaware of or something that maybe changes the narrative slightly, we'll definitely let you guys know whether it's on here, whether it's on a live, whether it's on our social media.

So stay tuned for that because we will follow it all the way to the end and try to support Blaze's family any way we can. Thank you guys so much for being here. We start a new case next week. So don't forget to join us for that. Whether you're listening on podcast platforms or watching us on YouTube, we appreciate you guys so much. Derek, tell them where they can follow us on social media. Very easy. At Crime Weekly Pod on all social media platforms, or you can go to crimeweeklypodcast.com. Make sure if you're going to email us, it's contact at crimeweeklypodcast.com.

If you have those CrimeCon ticket purchases that you want to show proof of, that's where you got to email us and we will make sure that you are added to the list. Thank you guys. We'll see you next week. Bye. Night.