Crime Weekly - S2 Ep79: Aaron Hernandez: A Tragic End (Part 5)

Episode Date: May 27, 2022

Fifteen year old Matthew Kent was out for a jog on the evening of June 17th, 2013 when he discovered something that would change the course of multiple lives. Kent had just finished working out at the gym, and he was training for his high school track team, so he decided to run the short distance back to his home in Westwood Estates in North Attleboro, Massachusetts. His route brought him through a secluded clearing in an industrial park around 5PM where he saw a man, lying on his back, not moving. Kent approached the man to ask if he was alright, and when he received no response, he called the police. The body was that of 27 year old Odin Lloyd, a semi professional football player and a linebacker for the Boston Bandits, a family man whose two loves in life were his family and football, but for some unexplainable reason he had been shot to death, execution style. Odin was not from North Attleboro, and it wasn’t the kind of place where random acts of violence occurred, but law enforcement quickly discovered that he only knew two people in the area. Shayanna Jenkins, the sister of Lloyd’s girlfriend, and Aaron Hernandez, Shayanna’s boyfriend and tight end for the New England Patriots. No one wanted to believe that a young and talented professional football player who had just signed a 40 million dollar contract could possibly be involved with this brutal murder, but as the investigation progressed, a pandoras box was opened, revealing that there was another, darker side to Aaron Hernandez.  Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCO.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Did you know using your browser in incognito mode doesn't actually protect your privacy? Take back your privacy with IPVanish VPN. Just one tap and all your data, passwords, communications, browsing history, and more will be instantly protected. IPVanish makes you virtually invisible online. Use IPVanish on all your devices, anytime you go online at home and especially on public Wi-Fi. Get IPVanish now for 70% off a yearly plan with this exclusive offer at IPVanish.com slash audio. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So today we are actually finishing up the Aaron Hernandez series. It's the last episode. I know Derek asked me last week how many episodes are left. I said, I don't know, but I never do know until I get into it. But today is the last episode. In the next week, we start a brand new case.

So I know that's probably exciting for some of you. It's exciting for us. But before we dive in today, I just wanted to remind everybody that in a couple weeks, Derek and I, as Crime Weekly, are going to be in London for CrimeCon UK. So if you're in the area, if you want to see us, if you're a follower or a listener or a watcher from over, what is it, over the pond in the UK, somewhere over there. If you're over there, you want to see us, use our code CRIMEWEEKLY when you purchase your CrimeCon UK tickets. And then we're going to have a little meetup for our UK fans. We're going to hang out with you guys in a smaller

group where it'll be more intimate. We'll have some drinks and have some fun, and then we'll go from there. That's right. And just like in Las Vegas, if you use our code and you haven't already, if you've already sent it, you're good to go. But if you use our code and you're going to be going to the event and you want to be invited to the little meet and greet we're going to do after hours somewhere, make sure you email us at contact. at crimeweeklypodcast.com so we can add your email to the list so that when we send out the newsletter to kind of say like, hey, here's the meetup spot, you'll be notified. We're looking forward to meeting everybody. There's already been a lot of people that have used our code. So we'll do

something close to the hotel where CrimeCon is occurring. So it's in walking distance for everyone. CrimeCon is actually helping us find a location. And as soon as we have something locked down, we'll let you guys know the date and time. Also quickly, just want to let you know, I'm currently drinking Criminal Coffee Rogue Roast. It's delicious. It's our medium roast.

At this point, we're recording this. When you guys are hearing this or seeing it, coffee should be on its way to you guys. If you've been following along with criminal coffee, we originally said the pre-orders, we would try to get the coffee in your hands within four to five weeks, which would put us around June 2nd. We had such a demand for it. We were forced to do a follow-up email where we said, hey, it might be closer to seven to eight weeks. And that was mainly because the materials for the bags were delayed. And obviously if we don't have a bag to put the coffee in, we can't roast it. Well,

we got the bags a little quicker. We paid more for shipping to get them here. We now have them. And it looks like you guys will be receiving your coffee within that four to five week window, if not maybe a day or two after, which is music to my ears. I was super paranoid about it. Like I said, we sent out an email to everyone who had purchased the coffee to let them know to be prepared for that. But surprise to us, it looks like we're going to be back on schedule and we're going to beat that. And just so you know, if you haven't ordered yet and you're planning on ordering, once we catch up on all the orders, which I think will happen fairly quickly, like I said, when you're listening to this or watching it, it's Friday if you're listening.

It's Sunday if you're watching. You may already have your criminal coffee. And if you don't and you ordered on one of the first couple of days, you should have it by this week. If you don't, you might want to reach out to us at contact at criminalcoffeeco.com. That's it. It'll be right here on the screen if you want. So again, thank you to everyone who ordered.

If you want to order going forward, understand it will not take that long. We're going to shoot for a week to two weeks max to get the coffee from the date you deliver to your house. Preferably, I'd like it to be within the week, but because we're a small business, because we're just starting, it might take a little longer, but I'm going to be optimistic and say, if you order early in the week, you'll probably have it by the end of the week. That's my goal, at least to get it out to you guys. Yeah, guys, it's so good. Like I know that it's our brand. So we have to say that, but we wouldn't have made it if it wasn't good. It's really,

really good coffee. We would never give you subpar coffee. You know, for sure I wouldn't because that would be embarrassing for me. It's so good. If you're looking for a new coffee or you want to try a new coffee out, give it a try. I think once you do, you're going to want to be ordering it on the regular because since I've been drinking it, it's hard for me to kind of go and drink anything else, especially now that I'm running low.

But I'm going to grab some this weekend because me and the family are heading up to Rhode Island and Derek and I are going to be packing up all your orders ourselves and sending lots of love with them. And I'm so excited. Yep. And something else I'll put on the screen right here. If you ordered the coffee, you'll get the little card from us in the box or in the envelope,

whatever, however many bags you ordered. But if you get the coffee and you like it and you want to throw it in a mug or a cup or whatever you're doing to drink criminal coffee, use the hashtag CC mugshot, criminal coffee mugshot, and let us know we're actually calling it your mugshot. Get it? Mugshot. That's pretty good. Right? Stephanie liked it. I did. I did like it. Anyways. So definitely. So we know that you're liking it. Let us know what you think. We want to hear your feedback. We're new to this industry. We're going to grow it as much as we can. So,

and the best way to do that is by getting feedback from the people that are drinking it, who aren't personally invested in it like ourselves. Because like Stephanie just said, we love it, but we want to make sure you love it. So reach out to us, tag us, let us know, and we'll keep doing

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Awesome. I cannot wait to get more coffee. I hope you guys your door. All right. Awesome. I cannot wait to get more coffee. I hope you guys love it. We really do want to hear. Let's dive into today's episode. So by the beginning of 2014, law enforcement was working on building a strong case against Aaron Hernandez, not only for the murder of Odin Lloyd, but for the double murder in Boston. And this investigation had ended up bringing them all over the United States, from Massachusetts to Connecticut to Rhode Island, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, New York, and California. Now, by this time, the police had tracked down 24-year-old Oscar Hernandez in Belle Glade, Florida. This was the man who had shipped

a Toyota Camry filled with guns to Aaron Hernandez's mansion. The Camry had been found in Aaron's garage during the early stages of the Odin-Lloyd investigation, and one of the rifles was still in the back seat. Oscar Hernandez led directly back to T.L. Singleton, cousin Tanya's late husband, who incidentally had been well-known among drug dealers in Connecticut because he was able to provide them with all sorts of things, including drugs and weapons, that he had acquired using a pipeline where these things would be brought over state lines without raising any red flags for law enforcement. Aaron's trial for the murder of Odin Lloyd began on January 29, 2015, and three days later, the New England Patriots won the Super Bowl. For Aaron, it would have been a peek through the curtain of what might have been if he had simply been grateful for all the opportunities he'd been given instead of spitting in the face of fate.

It was the state's belief that the murder of Odin Lloyd had been premeditated, and now it was their job to prove that. And it was the position of Aaron's defense attorneys that Aaron, a famous football player, had been targeted by the police. From the moment that they had discovered the murder victim had been his friend. One of Aaron's attorneys, Charles Rankin, would claim that the investigation had been sloppy and Aaron had been too friendly with Odin to have ever wanted him dead. He claimed that Aaron was a good kid who had risen above his tough upbringing in Bristol, but still felt loyal to his old friends, who he was very generous with, even after becoming rich and famous. Rankin told the jury, quote, you, ladies and gentlemen, will have to decide whether the friendly Aaron Hernandez

is the same Aaron Hernandez that is the subject of the story you just heard, end quote, referring to claims from the prosecution that Aaron was a cold-blooded murderer who had carefully planned the murder of Odin Lloyd and then made moves to cover up his crimes in the days that followed. The prosecution was going into the trial at a slight disadvantage, since the text messages between Odin and his sister had been ruled inadmissible with the judge claiming they were hearsay. So if you remember these texts, Odin had sent his sister when Aaron and Ernest Wallace and Carlos Ortiz had picked him up the night of his death. And he was texting her to basically say, hey, I'm with Aaron Hernandez. He didn't say it outright, but he said,

do you know who I'm with? And then he said, NFL. And this was him telling his sister, yeah, I'm with Aaron Hernandez. You know who I'm with? Because both Derek and I agreed that Odin felt like something was up, something wasn't right. And just in case he wanted his sister to know who he had been with. But the judge said that these texts were inadmissible. Yeah. I don't know how it would be hearsay if it's in black and white, literally, where you can go and look at it. But that's I guess that's for a judge. Clearly, the prosecution didn't feel it was hearsay. They presented it.

But, you know, it got thrown out. I wanted to ask you a question about that because. Odin's no longer here to talk about it, but I went back and forth on that text message because we know and it's really it's not really relevant to what we're talking about. But I just wonder about what Odin was thinking in those moments. And I wonder, it's basically two options, right? First option is Odin was saying to his sister, I'm with Aaron Hernandez. Like, I wanted you to know who I was with. Because even she wrote something like, you're annoying. I don't care that you're with Aaron. Is it possible

that he was like, hey, I want you to know I'm with the Aaron Hernandez. And I just wanted to make sure you know who I was hanging out with. Or do you think it was more so like, hey, I want you to know I'm with Aaron Hernandez because I feel like I may not be talking to you again. So it's possible that he was just like gloating, but I doubt it because he'd been over Aaron's house many times. You know, they'd hung out many times at the club. He's dating Aaron's fiance's sister. You know, at this point, it's like their family. And if he'd wanted to say, I'm with Aaron Hernandez, wouldn't he have just used his name instead of saying NFL? It seemed like he was kind of talking in code. Like, you know, he didn't want, you know, everybody who read it to understand what it meant.

And she said, like, you know, he was annoying her because he was being so cryptic in those messages. She said he was annoying her before he said NFL. So I think that was what was going on there. And probably that's why it was determined to be hearsay, right? Because those texts could have several different meanings. And the prosecution was saying these texts mean that Odin Lloyd's scared because he's with Aaron Hernandez. He wants somebody to know where he's at and where he's going. And the defense is like, nah, those texts could have meant anything. And Odin's sister doesn't even know exactly what those texts meant. So it's hearsay in that way, as far as the intention of

the text, as far as their meaning. Yeah. Exactly the question I'm posing, right? What was his feeling behind those texts? Was it a positive thing or a negative thing? So I agree with that. It's interesting that the defense is going to go with the angle of, do you believe that Aaron Hernandez, after we lay out his character, could be someone who would kill or attempt to kill a close friend of his? When we know, or we believe that Aaron Hernandez attempted to murder one of his closest friends, one of his confidants, Alexander Bradley. So it's going to be interesting as we dive into this, how that plays into it, because when you're considering Aaron's character and if he's capable of this, you would think that those things would become part of it. I do wonder

based on the power of Aaron's attorneys, if this information was admissible or not. The Alexander Bradley shooting? Yes. I don't believe it was admissible in the? The Alexander Bradley shooting? Yes. I don't believe it was admissible in the murder trial of Odin Lloyd. Alexander Bradley, all those times you saw him testifying, it was in the double murder trial of Daniel D'Abreu and Sofiro Furtado. And he did testify. Alexander Bradley did testify as well at the grand jury for, I believe, Odin Lloyd's murder trial. But there's so many trials, it gets a little confusing. But I don't believe that they did talk about that in that trial.

And just the same way as when they did the double murder trial, they weren't allowed to talk about Odin Lloyd's murder, even though Aaron had been convicted and was serving a life sentence for it by the time he went to trial for that double murder, which is crazy. And apparently the jury in the double murder trial didn't know about his previous conviction. I don't know. They said they didn't. They said they didn't. I don't know. I'll tell you, I'm one of those people that believe this, by the way. We have a lot of people out there that believe the juror, the judicial system, both ways, you know, innocent people going away for crimes. They didn't commit people going away for crimes like marijuana for 30, 40 years. That

shouldn't happen. Uh, and then on the other side of it, where you have people who are very dangerous, uh, being convicted of a serious crime and then being let out early or committing the crime, it being pretty obvious, but based on a technicality that they go free. It's screwed up either way you look at it. So when people bring that comment up, even someone who didn't, you know, I worked for the judicial system and I was more on the law enforcement side of it, but the courts, it's really just like, it's a game. It's literally a game and it's a crapshoot. You can, there's no consistency on either side of it, but the courts, it's really just like, it's a game. It's literally a game and it's a crapshoot. There's no consistency on either side of it. So when people make that claim about how screwed up our justice system is, I promise you, you won't get any pushback from me. No, for sure. And I mean, not allowing the jury to hear these texts, it gave Aaron's

attorneys the opportunity to use a mere presence defense, which according to Connecticut criminal defense attorney Norm Pattis, who was not involved with the trial, the mere presence defense is basically an argument that guilt cannot be established simply because the defendant happened to be at the scene of a crime. Now, luckily, the prosecution did not need to convince the jury that Aaron himself had pulled the trigger to charge him with murder, which is why they had charged his two buddies, Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Bo Wallace, alongside Aaron, not in the same trial. These two men were, you know, separately tried, but they charged them all. Basically, you all were there. You all had something to do with this. And Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Bo Wallace both turned on Aaron and said he was the one that pulled the trigger. He was the one that did it. So basically a two against one kind of thing here. And I think we can both agree Aaron was really the only one who had the motive to kill Odin Lloyd. Ernest know, just knew Odin through Aaron, but we'll get there.

No, I agree completely. You know, and they probably established that in the trial where it's like, listen, Ernest and Carlos had no agenda, no motive, no reasoning. They barely knew the guy. It was only through Aaron. And so the only one who would have a reason to do this would be Aaron. And I think it is compelling when you have two of the three co-conspirators saying, Hey, no, it was him that pulled the trigger. I'm sure the argument was made. Hey, listen, they're doing that because they know that's what the prosecution wants. And so they're just doing whatever they can to get a deal, to get out better. I'm sure that's the argument that was made, but, but in reality, there's really no incentive for them to do that because right now they're being charged with it as well.

And it's just like any crime, right? If you go into a situation, Stephanie and I decide to rob a bank and I go in there and I shoot the teller and I end up killing this person. Stephanie's going to be charged with murder as well. There's no doubt about it. And they do that because you're committing a felony that leads to a murder. You can be held accountable for it, even if it wasn't your intent at the time. And so that's something that goes into here where they charge all three

of them because essentially you're an accessory to murder. Your actions, whatever the crime might have been leading into it, resulted in death. And so all three can be tried. But as you just mentioned, when two of the three conspirators say, no, it was him that pulled the trigger, they could still be held accountable. But obviously the trigger man is going to be in a lot more trouble when it comes to whether they're found guilty or not, because now you have their own friends saying they did it under oath. You know, I was about to say, like, I hope if we go into a bank and you rob the bank and shoot someone, I'm only charged with accessory to murder, not murder, because that's messed up, man. You could put me in that situation. You can be charged with conspiracy and absolutely it will hold a conspiracy charge. This I know for certain. A conspiracy charge can hold the same because the conspiracy charge itself is in relation to whatever the main charge is. So

if it's, for example, if you're sitting in the car and you're just a getaway guy, you're just the driver, they go in, they rob the bank. Although you didn't rob the bank, you conspired with them to commit that crime and whatever actions happen inside that bank, you will be charged with conspiracy and any charges that are associated with that conspiracy charge. So if it's a murder, if it's a robbery, you can be charged and held under the same standard as far as sentencing as the people who actually did it. Crazy, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, in this case, Ernest Wallace and Carlos Ortiz didn't get anywhere near the sentence that Aaron Hernandez did. We'll talk about that. But I also answered a question that you had earlier.

The prosecution was not allowed to mention the murders of Daniel DiAbrillo and Zafiro Furtado or the attempted murder of Alexander Bradley during this trial. So they were not allowed to talk about that at all. And Judge Susan Garsh also ruled evidence collected from Aaron's home during one of the police searches as inadmissible. So it was just one of the searches. It was just a couple of things, but this was just the defense basically hammering away at what circumstantial evidence the prosecution did have. And you might be surprised by my take on this, but I try to stay as objective as I can. And I agree with the idea or the fact that the Alexander Bradley incident and the Diabreo incident, the Furtado incidents weren't allowed to be in. And here's my reasoning. As far as what we know now is different, but at that time, Aaron had not been convicted of a crime

in either situations. There was a lot of speculation that he was the one that carried out those incidents, but anybody can be accused of something. The fact that he was never convicted of anything I think is substantial and this information would absolutely influence a jury. So when we talk about being fair and impartial, as much as I believe in my heart that he was involved in both of these incidences, I can understand why a judge would decide to keep this out and rule it inadmissible because at the end of the day, it's not what you know, it's what you can prove. And at this point, he hadn't been proven to commit either crime. So I actually agree with it. And some might be surprised by that, but

I try to be fair and I think that is the right the right call. What do you think about it? So for me, it's a case by case basis with Aaron. I think that the fact that they didn't have to say he's convicted of this, they could say he's been accused of these things. It shows a pattern of behavior for Aaron, just like his fights in Florida, just like, you know, the trouble he was getting into when he first started with the Patriots, things like that. It shows a pattern of behavior. So if you're allowed to talk about other things he was alleged to do, like getting into bar fights and things, you should be allowed to talk about that as well. And then on the other hand, when you go into his double murder trial, they're not allowed to talk about Odin Lloyd's murder, but he was already convicted of that.

So at that point, why can't you talk about that well because jose baez was his attorney you know so once again it is a game who has the best attorney who can find the most loopholes who can kind of like get away with the most yeah i agree definitely weigh in the comments below on that one you know how do you feel about it you know where i feel on it you know where stephanie feels on it we want to hear your thoughts we had some good uh discussion going on in the comments last week about our question really quickly, by the way. It was basically what we thought as far as lawyers and their responsibility. It doesn't matter what the lawyer thinks, the defense attorney thinks as far as the guilt of their client. They can think that their client is guilty. They still have a job to do,

which is to make sure that even if they feel the client is guilty, that still have a job to do, which is to make sure that even if they feel the client is guilty, that they're given a fair and reasonable trial and that the checks and balances are in play as far as what the prosecution is doing and what the detectives or FBI agents, whoever's involved, that they're abiding by all the laws as well so that their client gets a fair trial. There was also something that one of you guys sent in a DM as far as mandatory reporting. If you are a lawyer, a defense attorney, and you contribute to the hiding of a crime where you go overboard, where you're helping them hide the gun or facilitating something that would help destroy certain pieces of evidence that may lead

to a guilty conviction. You do have a responsibility there to report certain things or remove yourself. So there is a gray area there. I think at the end of the day, if you're not reporting as a defense attorney, who's really going to know? So there is that gray area where it does come back to ethics and morality as far as what you want to do, how far you want to push the envelope to prove your case, how much, how far you're willing to go to get your client off. And there's no doubt in my mind,

attorneys have overstepped those boundaries, but just to counter that, because I know there'll be comments about it. There's definitely been prosecution, uh, prosecutors and detectives who have also overstepped their boundaries as well. So it goes on both ends. Neither one, in my opinion, is right. So we need to have more checks and balances as far as just getting the right decision for the victims. I know that we have someone who's on trial. We want to make sure they're not going to jail for a crime they didn't commit. But at the end of the day, there is a family that has been affected for this, and we should all be on the same page that we want to get it right. But also we want to make sure that the victims in the case who are no longer able to speak for themselves, that they get what they deserve as well. I mean, or two murders and one attempted murder should have been allowed in. The prosecutor, William McCauley, he thought that it was relevant. He argued that two people getting killed and a third being shot between the eyes all in the course of 11 months, all connected to Aaron.

That should absolutely be admissible. But the judge disagreed. And once again, it really does come down to the judge. Sometimes another judge may have let that in. This judge did not. And when it came down to it, despite the mountains of evidence that connected Aaron to Odin Lloyd's murder, which something that evening at Rumor Nightclub to set Aaron off the night that they got in like that little argument at the club. And, you know, Aaron was dancing with the girl and then he suddenly got all fixated on what Odin Lloyd was doing. Now, let's discuss the most important testimony that happened over the course of the trial.

Alexander Bradley himself took the stand, and although he was not allowed to talk about Aaron shooting him, Bradley still had plenty to say. He told the jury that he was Aaron's drug dealer, and he was selling Aaron as much as four ounces of weed a week. Bradley said that he would often spend the night at Aaron's North Attleboro home, and on those occasions, he would sleep in a room located in the basement. In November of 2012, he said he'd seen a small black lockbox that belonged to Aaron and was kept by the bar area in the basement. Now, a lot of people were talking about in the comments saying, no, it's not a box, it's a gun safe. Yes. We knew that we were just sort of leading up to

it because she said it was a box, right? So we were kind of just talking about what her testimony was, what she claimed it was. It was too heavy to be a cardboard box. That's the point we were making. Yeah. It was obviously too heavy to be a cardboard box. That's why we were making the joke about how heavy the weed was and things. You guys like that picture, by the way? I got a lot of comments I posted on Instagram as well. Everyone was very quick to point out how young I looked. And also, I guess from the angle, how small my hands looked. It looked like I had like mini hands. Oh, it was just the angle, huh? That made your hands look small? I mean, I have decent sized hands. I mean, do I have smaller hands? Am I my hands proportioned

for my body? I'm going to have to look now because I can't remember. But it does. In the picture, it looks like i have like from that like scary movie like grab my hand like take my hand it looks like i have like these little mini hands it's kind of funny like those fake hands that people put in their sleeves yeah yeah i'm like just barely holding on to the bags so alexander bradley saying this was a lock box that he saw and this was allegedly the same box that shayana had gotten rid of on Aaron's request. And that's why it looked like she was struggling under the weight of it because they're like metal. Sometimes they're, I don't know what they're made out of, but they're like

heavy, man. They're supposed to be. Usually double insulated, like two walls of fireproof, double walled. Yeah. Yeah. And the defense had told the jury that there was nothing in that box besides 40 pounds of marijuana. But Alexander Bradley told the jury that he was nothing in that box besides 40 pounds of marijuana, but Alexander Bradley told the jury that he'd been with Aaron once when the black box had been opened, and there had been some weed inside, but it was also used to hold money as well as a semi-automatic pistol, which when he saw it was gray-colored with a brown handle. And I mean, Aaron's got guns all over the place, you know, so this is not the Glock that was used to kill Odin Lloyd, but it's just another gun that Aaron has that he's getting from like people in Florida. Yeah.

But it is important here because the lawyer is saying that was 40 pounds of marijuana. And that's why we wanted to throw that picture up in the last episode. But throw it up again here just for like to use at your own scale. If you're not familiar with marijuana, I'm a decent sized guy. You can see in that photo, even though my hands are very small. Except for your small hands. Except for my small hands. I'm holding that. That's only five pounds of marijuana. So although it can be dense, 40 pounds of marijuana, and Stephanie can attest to this as well, would not fit into that small safe that she was holding, that size. I don't care how compacted it is.

It wouldn't be that small of an area for 40 pounds. That's a lot. That's a lot of weed. And so that's where it's hard for me to believe because yes, it could have been 40 pounds of marijuana, but I would think it would be a lot, a lot larger of a, of a, of a box or whatever that she would have to carry in order to fit 40 pounds of it. Because as I just said, the photo I posted is only five. There's a big difference. Yeah. And not only that, but you're not going to have 40 pounds of marijuana laying around unless you're growing it or selling it. And as far as we know, Aaron Hernandez was not doing either. And I feel like by now, if he had been, or if people were even saying he was, it would have come out because everybody was talking about Aaron after everything happened.

So it would have come out. Aaron Hernandez didn't need to sell pot because he was making millions of dollars playing football. So there's no way that was 40 pounds of marijuana. And if you're throwing out 40 pounds of marijuana, there's something wrong with you. That should be a crime. He should have been arrested for that. Yeah. So Alexander Bradley testified that when he and Aaron had been in Miami, he had seen Aaron holding a Glock pistol in the night of Odin's murder, after they had picked him up from his house, Ortiz had heard Aaron and Odin talking about that whole incident

at Rumor Nightclub. And Aaron had told Odin directly, you know, listen, Odin, you were hanging out with people that I have a problem with. And they were kind of discussing what had happened. But Ortiz said the two men squashed it and they shook hands and made up. Ortiz claimed that after this, he'd fallen asleep only to be woken up by the sons of gunshots before seeing Aaron run back to the car with a gun in his hand and get in without Odin. These drug dealers and like criminals, they always be falling asleep in the car. Alexander Bradley, he's like, I don't know what happened because I was sleeping in the car. I only woke up when I heard a gunshot or when there was a gun in my face. But they're always falling asleep conveniently in the car. It's kind of like Sherry Papini. She just can't tell you much about what happened because she just kept falling asleep in the car. When they had returned to Aaron's house, Ernest Wallace told Ortiz to retrieve a gun which had been hidden under the driver's seat. Ortiz got the gun and brought it

inside before giving it to Aaron, at which point we see Aaron standing by the basement door holding this gun as if he doesn't have cameras all over his house. And like we said, the footage, the camera footage to the basement had been cut that night, but we still have him on the first floor of the house walking around holding a gun. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Cognito mode doesn't actually protect your privacy? Take back your privacy with IPVanish VPN. Just one tap and all your data, passwords, communications, browsing history, and more will be instantly protected. IPVanish makes you virtually invisible online. Use IPVanish on all your devices, anytime you go online at home, and especially on public Wi-Fi. Get IPVanish now for 70% off a yearly plan with this exclusive offer at IPVanish.com slash audio. downstairs and then deciding at that point to cut the cameras because there were cameras downstairs

as well. And if those cameras had been rolling, you would have most likely seen Aaron taking that gun and probably putting it into this, the black safety deposit box, whatever you want to call it, safe, whatever you want to refer to it as. Because when we break this case out, as far as what we know happened afterwards, you would see Shayana carrying out a box and you ask yourself, well, why would she carry out that box? Well, probably to get rid of something that would connect Aaron to the crime in question, which would be what? A gun. So, you know, there's some speculation there and that's why this case was circumstantial, but it comes down to what you would reasonably believe based

on what you do have, which is the presence of Aaron Hernandez on the first floor, uh, appearing to hold what we all believe is a gun from. And if you look closer, if you're someone who's familiar with guns, it looks like a Glock. And as we know, the shell casing recovered or shell casings recovered from the crime scene appear to have been fired from McGlock. So just those little pieces of information, yet circumstantial, very compelling. Yeah. So you guys know how a trial goes. If you watch trials for fun and entertainment like I do, you know that usually the prosecution presents their case first and that's like, you know, the first week, week and a half, depending on how long. And then the defense will present their case.

So the whole time the prosecution's presenting their case, Aaron's defense team is like, you can't say he did this just because, you know, he may have been present. Like, he did not do anything. He wasn't even there. You can't even prove he was there, etc., etc. But when it was the defense's turn to argue their case, they shocked everyone by admitting outright that Aaron had been present at the scene of Oden Lloyd's murder, but he'd had nothing to do with it. In fact, he'd been afraid of the two men who he'd been with, Ortiz and Wallace, which is why he had kept quiet afterwards. The defense would claim that on the night of Oden Lloyd's murder, Ortiz and Wallace had been high on PCP, and this drug had driven them out of their minds and led to the murder of an innocent man. Jennifer Mercado, who's the sister of Tanya Singleton and the cousin of Aaron,

she testified that she'd seen Wallace and Ortiz walking their dog on the night of Odin's murder. She'd seen both men, and they appeared to be high on something. But her testimony was also confusing because she claimed she could recall smelling angel dust in a blunt that was being smoked by Wallace and Ortiz that night, saying that when a blunt had PCP in it, it smelled like burning plastic, whereas plain weed had an herbal smell. She said that Wallace was acting crazy, erratic, and argumentative, and he was periodically screaming in what she described as mumbo-jumbo and not actual English. Both Wallace and Ortiz were sweating profusely, wiping the sweat off of themselves often and

acting jittery. However, when Mercado had testified in front of the grand jury in 2013, she claimed that she thought the two men sometimes used PCP, but she didn't know for sure, and she didn't know if they had been using it that night. So once again, we're getting some changing stories, and this is Aaron's family. This is his cousin. This is Tanya's sister. This is a very loyal family. And also, Jennifer Mercado lived at Tanya Singleton's house as well. Carlos Ortiz was there all the time. Ernest Wallace was there all the time.

So at this point, she's got to decide who is she protecting. I agree. And then as soon as you started with it, when you talk about Mercado being the cousin of Aaron Hernandez, you have to take that into consideration as a jury member. This is someone, as you just said, a relative of Aaron Hernandez, maybe has a very minimal relationship with the co-conspirators. She's got nothing to lose. She's got nothing to lose. Is it really that hard of a decision for her to do? She only met through Aaron or Aaron, her cousin. So is she going to lean one way? I think

it's only reasonable to assume she would, but I want to backstep even a couple more because you said it was surprising that the defense decided to admit Aaron was at the scene. And I think this was a smart move. Although it was circumstantial, there was an overwhelming amount of evidence that put Aaron at the scene of the crime. You laid it out all in last episode from the car to the window, the time window in which he would have had to exit the vehicle and not be there. His shoe prints at the crime scene, his DNA at the crime scene, the bubble gum in the car, you name it, it's all there. So it would be very hard for them to convince anyone that Aaron was not present. So they said, hey, you know what? We're going to own that one. There's no way, Aaron. They probably said it behind closed doors. Aaron, there's no way

we're going to convince a jury that you weren't there. There's too much evidence. And yet it's circumstantial. It's overwhelming that you were there. We got to own that. However, there's not a lot of evidence because we don't have a gun or they don't have a gun stating that you pulled the trigger. And that's important.

So we're going to go with that argument because that's really what it comes down to is who was the trigger man. So this was a good decision by Aaron's defense team to just to own this and go with what they felt like was the best argument for them, which was not to prove that he wasn't there, but to prove that he wasn't the shooter. And not only was he not the shooter, but he had no motive to shoot Odin Lloyd and wasn't even part of the shooting itself. He was afraid he was in his eyes, a victim as yeah. And so it's a good move. And it's a good option here because to try to convince this jury that he wasn't even there, it weakens your credibility as an attorney because they're going to look at you and go, really, guy? Or really,

girl? That's what you think? That's how dumb you think we are? Not going to happen. So we're not going to believe anything else you have to say. So kudos to them on this to say, listen, let's not fight that battle. Let's be more focused. That's the better argument. Well, I don't even know what were Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Wallace on PCP the night of Odin Lloyd's murder? Probably. Probably. I mean, there was evidence that they had done it. They were acting a little crazy at the gas station. Remember, Aaron had to keep like shoving Ernest Wallace back into the car. And, you know, they were kind of like dancing all over the parking lot and seeming pretty aggressive. Maybe they were. But I don't really see how it's relevant, honestly, because you'd still think that you'd need some kind of motive to drive somebody out to an industrial park and shoot them. Like that's premeditation. That's saying like, I have a problem with this person. Like we were talking about last episode, that's what the mob does. They take them out to the shipyards and, you know, they already know what's happening.

And it just didn't seem very relevant to me. And then Jennifer Mercado was shown a video of Ortiz and Wallace, and this was taken while they were moving items in and out of a parked car in Aaron's driveway. And this video had been taken before Odin Lloyd's murder and just a few hours after Mercado testified to having seen the two men acting all crazy and high on PCP. But in this video, they appeared to be acting completely normal. They were acting in an intentional and methodical way. They weren't acting crazy. They weren't consistently wiping sweat off of themselves. So basically, the prosecution was just like, they weren't high on PCP. Once again, I don't really see the relevance. Just because you're on PCP doesn't mean you're a crazy murderer all of a sudden. I'll even say that even the footage that we showed from the gas station, I believe it was Ortiz.

He looked like he could barely stand on his own. Aaron literally shoved him back into the car. So he didn't really seem like he had much control over his bodily function, but he wasn't erratic. It looked like he was, to me, like someone who was severely drunk. Yes, they were drunk. They'd been drinking that night. They were all drunk. That's what it looked like he was, to me, like someone who was severely drunk. Yes, they were drunk. They'd been drinking that night. They were all drunk. That's what it looked like to me.

Aaron, on the other hand, although drunk, was dancing. He seemed like he still had function in his motor skills. He was able, like I said, to push Carlos Ortiz in the car and he was dancing. I mean, again, you could tell he was drunk, but not to the point where he couldn't stand on his own. I didn't really see Ernest too much in that video, so I can't speak to his behavior, but definitely Carlos Ortiz. I mean, he literally just like one hand just shoved him in the back seat, like you're shoving a kid into a locker. Like three separate times. Yeah. I thought it was Ernest Wallace. Whoever was in the back seat, the back seat driver side. But yeah, he kept trying to get out of the car and Aaron was just

like, get back in, get back in. So definitely somebody who's under the influence of something, but I feel like these guys were under the influence of something 24-7. So once again, it doesn't necessarily to say to me, oh, now they're murderers. That's right. And Aaron's lawyer, who at that point was James Sultan, he told the jury that it was Ernest Wallace and Carlos Ortiz who were the true killers of Odin Lloyd and that they'd taken his life due to a drug dispute. And although Aaron was there, he didn't go to the police because he was scared of the two men. But then the prosecution played video footage from Aaron's home of Aaron, Carlos, and Ernest enjoying themselves the day after Odin Lloyd's murder. Now, in the Netflix docuseries about this case, they did show some of the footage.

I couldn't find it anywhere. And like, it was very tough to find any footage from Odin Lloyd's murder. They just had like very, you know, clips and things. They had the entire double murder trial on YouTube on the Law and Order Network, but they do not have, or Law and Crime Network, I'm thinking of a television show, the Law and Crime Network, but they did not have the whole trial of Odin Lloyd's murder on YouTube. So it was hard to find a lot of things from that, but you'll just have to imagine this in your heads while I describe it to you. Okay, so imagine you just watched two violent and terribly scary men shoot one of your friends to death, execution style, in front of you, and you had no idea this was going to happen. And now you're incredibly afraid that they're going to continue being violent and terribly scary men and hurt you as well, especially if you say anything. So after this happens, you invite these men over to your

house and you hang out with them by the pool. You're chatting, you're laughing, you're drinking smoothies that are hand delivered by your loyal fiance, Cheyenne. And you hang out with them on your living room couch. You watch TV. You even let them hold your baby daughter because they are so violent and terribly scary that you feel if you don't let them hold your baby daughter, they're going to kill you. So this is the footage they're playing during the trial of Aaron, Carlos, and Ernest doing all these things in the days after Odin Lloyd was murdered. And they asked the question, like, how afraid were you, Aaron? Because you don't seem to be terribly afraid. You seem to be enjoying yourself very much. You know, you're smiling, you're laughing, you're laughing.

You're completely comfortable with these two men in your house and around your family. Yeah, I think that that video footage is pretty self-explanatory. And I would even I'm sure this was part of it. It could be an extreme coincidence. But if we're to believe that Ernest or Carlos were the shooters, it's interesting that when they come home immediately after the shooting, the only one we see holding a gun is Aaron Hernandez. You could make the argument that, oh, he held the gun for one of the two other people who pulled the trigger.

But then you have to use common sense. And if you're an NFL player, you're six, whatever tall he is, he's bigger than these guys. He's not the lackey of either individual. He's not going to be holding the gun for them as they're coming back to his house. They're going to hold their own gun. If anything, they would be holding the gun for him. And that's not only because of his size, but that's just the hierarchy, right? He is definitely the boss and these guys just want to be around him. So to see Aaron Hernandez as the only individual holding a gun that happens to look like the gun allegedly used in the shooting is very compelling because we didn't see Ernest holding

the gun and we didn't see Carlos holding a gun. So couple that with the evidence from the video seen the day after. You also have the of the night in question. Add those two things together and it doesn't look good for Aaron and the defense team. And why would you keep their gun, their murder weapon in your own house? Wouldn't you be like, all right, I'm not going to say shit, guys, but like, can you take this gun? Like, do something with it? You guys have better chance of disposing of it than I do. You know, when the police find Odin, I'm the only one connected to him. Y'all aren't connected to him.

They're not going to go to your house. They're going to come here. Is it a good idea to keep the murder weapon here? He was killed like half a mile from my house, not your house in Bristol, not Tanya Singleton's house in Bristol, from my house. They're going to come here. It's probably not a good idea for me to have your murder weapon here. But no, he's not going to do that for them. He kept the gun there because it was his gun, his murder, and his mess to clean up. And as you were saying, no, he wasn't their lackey. They were his lackeys. And even the district attorney, William McCauley, he told the jury that in all the video evidence they had, it was clear, just like you said, that Aaron was the one who was taking the lead, the one who was controlling every aspect of the evening that ended in the death of Odin Lloyd. He'd sent multiple texts to Ernest Wallace in the days leading up to that night, aggressively demanding that Wallace

be in North Attleboro on that day and on that time, right? Aaron was the one who was rich and famous. Aaron was the one that the other guys wanted to hang out with, hoping to reap some of the rewards of that fame and fortune. They were following his lead, and he was the one in charge. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Did you know using your browser in incognito mode doesn't actually protect your privacy? Take back your privacy with IPVanish VPN. Just one tap and all your data, passwords, communications, browsing history, and more will be instantly protected. IPVanish makes you virtually invisible online.

Use IPVanish on all your devices, anytime you go online at home, and especially on public Wi-Fi. Get IPVanish now for 70% off a yearly plan with this exclusive offer at IPVanish.com slash audio. So closing arguments were done on April 6th, 2015. And by April 15th, the jury had come back with a verdict. Aaron Hernandez was found guilty of the first degree murder of Odin Lloyd, and he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. My name is Ursula Ward, Odin Lloyd's mother. Odin was the firstborn of three children. Odin was my only son.

Odin was the backbone of the family. Odin was the man of the house. Odin was his sister's keeper. And after my daughter Olivia had her daughter Sanaya, Odin became Sanaya's keeper also. Odin attended every one of Sanaya's recital. Odin was Sanaya's biggest supporter in all aspects of her life. Olivia and Jekila had two sons, Amari and Chancellor, who would never know their Uncle Odin. Odin would have taught them to be like and manners to everyone, and to play his favorite sport, football.

Odin gave me a beautiful gift before he was murdered, and that was introduce me to his girlfriend, Shania. Odin was my first best gift I ever received. I thank God every second and every day of my son's life that I spent with him. The day I laid my son, Odin, life to rest, I felt my heart stop beating for a moment. I felt like I wanted to go into that hole with my son, Odin. I will never have a grandchild for my son or grandchildren. I will never get to dance at his wedding. He will never, ever get to dance at my wedding.

I will never hear my son saying, Mommy Dukes. Ma did you cook? Ma go to bed. Ma you're so beautiful. Where you going Ma? Did you get my permission to go out? I love you, Ma. I miss my baby boy, Odin, so much.

But I know I'm going to see him someday again. And that is giving me the strength to go on. We wear purple in this courtroom every day because it's my son's favorite color. I forgive the hands of the people that had a hand in my son's murder, either before or after. And I pray and hope that someday everyone out there will forgive them also. May God continue to bless us. Thank you. Thank you. Really powerful. So I have a question for you. Yeah. Who do you think she was referring to when she said, I handed my son's murder before or after? She's talking about Aaron. She's talking about Carlos. She's talking about

Ernest. And I think she might be talking about Shana. That's my gut. That's my gut. Like, you know, during, before, it's obviously Aaron, Ernest, Carlos, a combination there. But I think after contributing to the dispersal or disposal of certain items that may have unequivocally connected Aaron to said crime, those things were never recovered, which made the case a lot harder. Well, who disposed of those items allegedly? It's Cheyenne. So I think she's talking about all of those individuals. And I think she's sending a message not only to Aaron and his co-conspirators, but also Cheyenne saying, listen, I forgive all of you. And I hope everyone else, including Shania down the road, forgives you as well for

what you've done or what you've contributed in this particular situation. Yeah. And I wanted to play that statement from Ursula because she's obviously devastated. There was times, and I had to cut certain clips because there was times where 30 seconds would pass where she couldn't speak because she was crying. She lost somebody who was very important to her, her only son, her child. A lot of us are parents out there. I can't imagine. First of all, I would never forgive anybody who had a hand in taking the life of my son. And I always get shit for this, like, oh, you should forgive. No, I don't want to. And you don't make me forgive. And you can't tell me how to process these kinds of things. I will not ever.

But I give her a lot of credit for having the strength and the heart to do that. But it is very, it's moving. We have to remember that there's other people. There's people on the other side of these crimes. There's families, there's communities that are devastated by the death of one person. People who will forever be changed because of that. And we can't take it lightly. And I believe that Aaron took it lightly.

He didn't seem to value human life. To him, Odin Lloyd was something to get rid of to make his life easier. He wasn't a son. He wasn't an uncle. He wasn't going to one day be a husband and a father. For Aaron, he was completely dispensable. And that's sad. It's tragic. It's disrespectful. And Ursula was there to remind us that Odin was a full person who had a future and a past and who will be forever missed. And that's very important to keep in mind when we go over these cases. Yeah, well said. I always find it really fascinating how these parents, these loved ones, these siblings can speak about the person they've lost and sometimes speak about this person

in front of the individual responsible for their deaths, the way they're able to do it, and I guess it's just a human thing that we can do in death where you find a way to the strength that you didn't even know you had until it occurs to you. But every time I interview a family member that's lost someone in a tragic situation like this, it always impresses me their ability to stay composed and talk about these situations with such passion, but also clarity. I always say to myself, like you said, I don't know how they do it because I couldn't, but I guess it's something that you

don't really know what you're capable of until you go through it. I would talk about my loved one in front of the person who took their life, but I wouldn't be composed. I wouldn't be forgiving. No, no, no. So, yeah, I could talk all day in front of the people who did that. But it is stunning that people have it in them to forgive. And like you said, it might be going hell and back. And, you know, she she is a woman of faith.

So that has a lot to do with it, I'm sure. But I you said, it might be going hell and back. And she is a woman of faith. So that has a lot to do with it, I'm sure. But I could never, ever. Yeah. I really feel like it was a message. And I don't know Odin's mother, never spoken to her, but I feel like there was a message there. And it was to Erin, obviously, but I feel like it was more so to the people that are still going to be walking the streets and that she feels assisted in this case. I really feel like it was directed at Shayana because I'm assuming his mother, Odin's mother probably felt like she should be held responsible as well. And she, she wasn't, um, because again, there was nothing to prove that she did anything wrong just to be clear about that. But I feel like she was

sending a message to them because Shayana has claimed her innocence from the beginning. And I think Odin's mother knew how much this was having an impact on Shania and their relationship because it does appear they were pretty close before this. So there's a lot more at play here, not just the murder of Odin Lloyd, but also the family dynamic between Shania and Shana. And as far as a sister's love for each other and how Shayana basically chose her boyfriend and the father of her child over her sister. And so that's, I think Odin's mother saw that and saw how it was tearing them apart as well and was trying to send a message to her indirectly

without being too obvious. Yeah, for sure. Because Shania and Ursula were together all the time. They sat next to each other during the whole trial. Obviously, they're still close.. They sat next to each other during the whole trial. Obviously, you know, they're still close. They're still family to each other. So I'm sure behind the scenes, Shania was, you know, crying and saying, how could my sister do this?

I don't understand how this happened. And yeah, I think Ursula was maybe trying to, I don't know, maybe bring them back together or something, but I don't believe it happened. And many people wanted to know if these two sisters talk to this day. And as far as I can tell, they do not. They are still estranged. Well, think about this for a second, okay? Shania loses her boyfriend. She believes Aaron Hernandez and whoever was there killed Odin, okay? I have a feeling Shania, who knows Shayana better than we ever will

believes in her heart that Shayana, although not involved with it, contributed, you know, contributed in some way into disposal of evidence. So I think in Shania's mind, she's thinking Shayana, if you wanted to, you could tell the truth and it would be a slam dunk. If you got up there and said, I looked inside the safe and I saw a gun, a Glock in color, you know, bloody clothes, whatever it might be, this would be a slam dunk. It's over. There's no more speculation. There's no more anything.

Case is over. And yet you're choosing to claim ignorance, which to be fair, could be the truth. Maybe she didn't look inside the safe. Maybe she literally just grabbed whatever he told her to grab. She packed it up and decided to dispose of it in a garbage dumpster somewhere far away from the house. And she just did this because that's what she was told to do. I don't believe that Shania believes that. And that's why she was really having a hard time with this because she felt like Shayana was the key to this, where she could basically be the impartial witness that would say, yeah, I do love Aaron.

He is my boyfriend, but this is what I saw. And she never did. She never did. And I think that's what Shania is really holding on to, probably even to this day. Yeah. And I mean, maybe Shayana didn't look in the box, right? Because if it's a safe, maybe it was locked. Very possible.

Yeah. Maybe she couldn't even get in. But you still kind of know what someone's asking you to do because the box didn't just exist in a garbage bag. You had to put it in there. You had to take the gun safe or whatever safe it was and put it into a garbage bag. So at that point, there should be some questions being asked, but whatever. We won't beat a dead horse. Exactly. We don't know what happened. They do. I think there's more information that they know behind the scenes. And I hope for their sake that they do mend it at some point.

I don't think anyone, you or I, have said that we believe Shayana was involved in the murder of Odin Lloyd at any point. So I really do hope for them, because they are still here. They are both still alive and well, that they meant things because I do think they have a good conversation that may never see the light of day. They could hash these things out and could come to some closure as far as their relationship's concerned. So I don't think they're watching or listening to this, but if they are, I really do hope they meant things and maybe have an off the record conversation between sisters that Shania can listen to Shayana and say, okay, thank you. That's what I needed to know. And I love you and move on from it. No, forgiveness is overrated, man. Okay.

Well, you just literally stepped on my, okay, nevermind. Just my opinion, but toxic people are toxic people. I don't care if they're related to you by blood. Some people need to be cut off for your own mental wellbeing, just because they're related to you by blood or they were in your life for 30 plus years. It doesn't mean you have to forgive them and it doesn't mean you have to associate with them. That's all I'm saying. All right. If I cut you off, it's because you handed me the scissors. That's all I'm going to say. I literally was like this whole lovey-dovey thing. I know. It's so sweet.

Nah, F that. Nah, F that, Shania. We're different, man. I can hold a grudge for an eternity. Jesus. Writing down in my notes, don't cross Stephanie. You won't. Not to a point where I would hold a grudge.

That was a passive threat. Jesus. No, I'm saying like, I'm talking like serious things here, you know, serious transgressions. Like I can't imagine you ever doing anything that, you know, would cause me to cut you off for eternity. But I would if I had to. There we go. Another passive threat. There we go.

That's two. Oh, no. Keeping count. Got a little hash tally mark going on your notebook there? I'm just writing run over and over. All right, smart guy. Just go. I'm going to go.

Just go. It's demonic. Just go. I'm getting nervous. Ernest Bo Wallace was convicted on charges of being an accessory to murder after a jury deliberated for eight hours before finding him not guilty of a murder. His sentence was four and a half to seven years in prison. Now, Carlos Ortiz, who had previously pleaded not guilty, he changed his plea to guilty for being an accessory to murder. And he was given the same sentence.

So, like I said, four, four and a half to seven years is not life in prison without parole. They got off kind of easy, I think. I think they should have gotten more time. They got a deal, right? They were cooperating witnesses. There's no doubt about it. And it might even have been disclosed that there was some type of agreement that in exchange for their testimony, that they would get a lesser sentence. So I can see the behind closed doors. I'm the detective. Hey, listen, you guys have two options here. You can stay loyal to Aaron, who his, his having him as your friend, isn't going to mean much when he's behind bars for the rest of his life. So you have two options. You can be behind bars for the rest of your life as well with him, or you can tell us

the truth and maybe, just maybe, you get to live again one day. Not anytime soon. It's going to be a few years, but we will go easier on you as far as sentencing is concerned for your cooperation. Your call. Life in prison for a crime you didn't commit, or you tell the truth and you get to be a human again one day. Up to you. Well, prisoners are still humans. Okay. But. Oh, God.

You know what? I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that because I know you know that's not what I meant. I know. I meant a human in the sense where when you're behind closed, when you're in a cell, they do take away a lot of your human right as you know to walk the world freely to speak to whoever you want to eat whatever you want yes you are still a human you don't become something else when you're in there but to be able to function and operate like most human beings which is you can do whatever you want yeah you don't get a lot of those perks in

prison so uh it it's a pretty simple answer for most people, but I will tell you there are situations where family members, friends, or just co-conspirators decide to go down with the ship and stay quiet. And they end up getting the same sentence as the main offender. So in this case, Ernest and Carlos, who I'm assuming were interviewed separately, they should have been, both came to that conclusion separately. And that made the case a lot stronger against Aaron. Ernest Wallace, right? So then Carlos Ortiz's version of events also matches up with what Ernest Wallace is saying. They interviewed them separately. So they kind of know like these two guys were on the same page. Now, could they have gone on the same page previously? Of course. And the police did tell Carlos Ortiz, like, listen, you know, Aaron's not going to go to bat for you. So you shouldn't go to bat for him. Like he will turn on you before he

allows himself to go behind bars. And we know that's true because Aaron let his own cousin, Tanya, spend, you know, some of her precious time left on earth behind bars to protect him, which it didn't even end up working or even helping him. So, yeah. And, you know, Carlos Ortiz and Ernest Wallace were like, no, it wasn't us. So that's what happened. But we'll quickly touch on Aaron's trial for the double murders in Boston, which we already know he was found not guilty of because we've discussed it briefly here and there as we've gone through this series. And for this trial, he hired Jose Baez, which I guess turned out to be a smart move because Jose Baez did end up convincing a jury that Aaron had nothing to do with this double murder. Alexander Bradley had been given immunity for that crime in exchange for his testimony against Aaron, and Jose Baez latched onto that, painting Bradley as the actual killer and Aaron as the fall guy to a hardened criminal who had used the system to get away with murder. In this trial, Aaron's guilty conviction in the Odin-Lloyd case was not allowed to be admitted into the evidence,

with many in the jury claiming they had no knowledge of Aaron's previous troubles with the law, which I still have a hard time believing. And on brand with his usual courtroom antics, Baez gave sass to everyone in the courtroom, including the judge. This afternoon, though, Hernandez's defense attorney angrily told the judge he was frustrated with how he was being treated. You yell at me in front of the jury. You stand up, you look down at me, and you said, I know. And then you excuse the jury as if delaying this whole trial is my fault. You want to take me into your office and rip me a new one? By all means, do so. But not in front of this jury.

I'll be happy to tell this jury. I'll tell anyone that I have the highest respect for the job that you've done in this case. And for the professionalism that you have displayed throughout this case. He's such a drama queen. I can't get over it. I understand how people feel, and I feel very similar in the sense that Jose is definitely someone who, you know, I believe,

probably skirts the line a little bit, but I gotta say, just to be as fair as I can, the guy's good at what he does. I don't know how you take that from him. I'm not saying you have to like him, but it's hard to argue that he's not a good lawyer. I mean, his success rate says otherwise.

No comment. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no comment. My opinion that he sucks as a human being and a lawyer takes nothing away from him. He's still out there. He sucks as a human being and a lawyer or? He wasn't that good of a lawyer, man. He just has courtroom antics. He just is a good showman, you know, which I guess makes him a good lawyer in some ways. But like I've read

a lot of his books, unfortunately. OK, a lot of his books. I had to read this one about Aaron Hernandez. I had to read the one about Casey Anthony. And I've also read a lot of other stuff where he messes up a lot. He forgets stuff. He forgets to give evidence to the prosecution, stuff like that. He walks the line, in my opinion, which takes nothing away from him. Good job for his success. I'll give him his flowers. I'll say it right now. I don't have to like the guy, but if I were a criminal and I know I was in some trouble and I had unlimited resources, I'd hire Jose. Tom Brady, watch out, man. Jose Baez is angling in for Derek's favorite person. I mean, geez.

Oh, Jesus. Oh, my God. I didn't know where you were going with that. I was like, Tom Brady, what does Tom have to do with this? Keep him out of it. Do you have Jose Baez trading cards? No. Oh, Jesus. No, listen. I mean, I try, I could sit up here and be like, oh, he's this, he's that. I've given credit to a lot of people in law enforcement and prosecution as far as their jobs. There's been multiple cases where you feel like it's pretty commonsensical that this person committed the crime and yet they get out. They escape it unscathed. I really do wonder, as strong as the

case was for Odin Lloyd, what if Jose wasose was representing oh yeah yeah i mean that's what i think you wonder right they said that in the netflix documentary they were like i bet you aaron was wishing he'd hired jose bias for his first attorney for his first trial like who knows i mean yeah yeah he probably would have gotten off yeah uh jose bias i think he made a deal with the devil man at some point like jose he likes he like met the devil at the crossroads. He signed his soul away because I don't know how he pulls it off. You know, I don't know. And he's lost some cases.

Don't act like he hasn't lost some cases, some high-profile ones. But you got to be able to afford him, right? Like, that's another thing. Your average person who's, like, in a bad spot isn't going to be able to bring Jose Baez in. Jose Baez isn't over here like helping out the every man. He does it for the money. That may be true. I know you're going to get to it as far as the appeal was. Just tell me now because I can't wait. Was Baez the attorney on the appeal? Yeah. Okay. Makes all the sense of the world because obviously Aaron realized, damn, he's good. Let's have you. Okay. Well, I'll let us get there, but I want to just get, I couldn't wait for that one.

So there was more sass from Jose Baez reserved for Alexander Bradley himself. And I have to say in this scenario, I'm rooting for Alexander Bradley. Your name's Alexander Bradley. Alexander Sherrod Bradley. Okay. Sherrod is your middle name? Correct. You also go by the name Rock? No, I don't go by the name Rock. I heard the jail calls and your author refers to you as Rock. Was she speaking to someone else? I believe you might have heard her say Rocky. They call you Rocky? My family, yes. Okay, and you're also known as Sherrod?

That's my name, yes. Shooting Sherrod in the streets? Objection. That's what you said. I'm asking you, are you known as that? No, shh, overruled. Are you known as that? No, sir.

Okay, and they call you Rock because you rock people to sleep? Objection. Not correct. You talk about I'm a 100% gangster and nigger for real, stuff like that. Those are your words, right? If that's what you're reading. Those are your words, right?

You said those words? If that. You said those words? Do you recall those words, sir? Some of those words, yes. Okay, Mr. Bradley, with my question to you, Mr. Bradley, is that you didn't tell him, calm down, Aaron. And my answer to you, Mr. Baez, like I just said, was no.

Testy verbal sparring between Aaron Hernandez's lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, and the prosecution's star witness, Alexander Bradley. It may have been a discrepancy, a mistake. In fact, it was a discrepancy, right? STAGE. THE DEFENSE IS NOT SURE IF THE MURDER WAS A FAKE. THE DEFENSE IS NOT SURE IF THE MURDER WAS A FAKE. THE DEFENSE IS NOT SURE IF THE MURDER WAS A FAKE. THE CROSS-EXAMINATION AFTER BRADLEY SPENT DAYS TELLING

JURORS HE SAW HERNANDEZ MURDER, DANIEL DEABREU AND SAFIRO FURTADO IN BOSTON IN 2012. AND THAT HERNANDEZ THEN SHOT IN THE NIGHT OF THE MURDER IN 2012. AND THAT HERNANDEZ THEN SHOT HIM MONTHS LATER. BUT WITH THE DEFENSE NOW TRYING TO PIN THE MURDERS ON

BRADLEY, THE TENSION IS ANYTHING BUT SUBTLE. REMEMBER HE DIDN'T GET BETTER WITH TIME, DID IT, MR. BRADLEY? APPARENTLY NOT, MR. BAYES. WITH JURORS WELL

AWARE BRADLEY HAS BEEN GRANTED IMMUNITY. BAYES POKED HOLES IN HIS STORY. HE SAID HERNANDEZ SHOT HIM IN A VEHICLE. BUT WHY WAS THIS SHELL CASING in his story. He said Hernandez shot him in a vehicle, but why was this shell casing and blood outside? Why did he text his lawyer asking if he could be held for perjury for telling the truth about not recalling anything about who shot me? And why was he okay with driving the SUV the shots were fired from? I was okay because I never expected Mr. Hernandez to shoot those individuals. Yeah. It's like you say, right? Baez is a showman. He's sitting back on the computer, but he walks around, he works the

courtroom. He's constantly talking to the witness, but also kind of talking to the jury, right? Like I'm with you guys. I'm just trying to get the truth for you guys. So as he's asking questions, he's looking at the jury kind of with this face very subtle but like can't believe this guy come on what are we what are we talking about here and so he's matching bradley's energy throwing it right back at him you know poking holes in his credibility that's what he does that's why he's he he's he's effective a lot of the times he's also a little bit antagonistic right but you you look you see aaron's face during this when they're going back and forth. Like Aaron's face is cracking me up because he's kind of worried.

He's kind of stressed out. And there's another clip when Baez is like yelling at the judge and Aaron looks like scared shitless. He's like, oh, my God, what's happening? Why is my lawyer being so like aggro right now? But it ended up working. But obviously Aaron Hernandez was nervous that these antics were not going to help him. But yeah. So what's he trying to do? What's bias trying to do there? He's trying to provoke Alexander Bradley to get him to snap, to get him to yell, show a violent side, show that he has a short temper, a short fuse, et cetera, et cetera. Going back to what we talked about episode one and two, where I was kind of

joking around like Bradley's talking about, yes, sir, no, sir. Yes, I use my blinker, sir. All these things that may or may not be true, but it's hard for me to believe that Alexander Bradley was this upstanding citizen this entire, he was getting guns for Aaron, all these different things. So he's playing a character at court. He's trying to make himself look like the good guy. And like you just said, bias is trying to pull that other side of him out to show the jury another version of Alexander Bradley and why he may not be the most credible person to believe as he's laying out the facts that he recalls and saying, hey, listen, you see this guy, he's snapping at me in a courtroom. How do you think he acts out

in the outside world when nobody's watching? He wants to put that doubt in the jury member's mind. You know, it's a good tactic. Yeah, but I don't necessarily like, like we know, no one's saying Alexander Bradley's an upstanding citizen. Like we know he had a record, but I don't like to say, oh, just because Aaron Hernandez is this, you know, millionaire football player and Alexander Bradley has a record for getting into trouble. It must have been Bradley. And that's what Jose Baez is trying to paint here. And like I said, that's his job. I get it. But Bradley kept his cool, man.

He was a little testy. You know, Mr. Baez, like I liked it. Give it right back to that jackass but he he did not snap and he didn't you know like show that that dark side that violent side that that bias wanted him to note to self stephanie will not give any points to mr bias i will if i feel it's necessary but here's the deal right with spoiler alert she will not feel it's ever necessary i might i might i just don't like him man he had a nice suit on can we start there whatever i don't think so okay he needs to get it tailored so here's the deal with alexander bradley the circumstances that made it pretty easy for aaron's legal team to turn the tables on Bradley was like we just said, Bradley was a criminal.

He had a long record and his recollection of the incident may not have been as clear as he'd made it out to be. Jose Baez got Bradley to admit on the stand that the reason why he had not cooperated with the police after his shooting was because he had wanted to handle it himself. He'd wanted to kill Aaron, which allowed Jose Baez to demonstrate to the jury that Bradley was a man capable of killing. Baez claimed that being a drug dealer put Bradley in a dangerous line of work where he might have had many people who had an interest in seeing him dead. And the defense produced a text message that Alexander Bradley had sent his lawyer, which read, quote, Now you sure once I withdraw this lawsuit, I won't be held on perjury after I tell the truth about me not recalling anything about who shot me? End quote. Now, Bradley explained that this text was not in the context that Baez was making it

seem to be. He said that he did not want to tell the grand jury that it was Aaron who shot him because he had wanted to handle Aaron himself, either through the civil suit or straight vengeance. But Bradley also worried that not telling the grand jury the truth would get him in trouble because he had sworn under oath that Aaron was the one who shot him when he filed that civil suit. So Bradley said he was anti-police, he didn't believe in snitching, but once Aaron had been convicted for Odin Lloyd's murder, Bradley no longer had the option to seek his own justice through money or violence. So he'd agreed to testify during the double murder trial. So that's what Bradley was referring to.

And that does make sense. If taken out of context, it makes it look like he doesn't know who shot him. But I don't understand how you could get shot in the face and not not know who shot you, you know, unless they were wearing a mask or something. But he's basically saying, like, he had told the police he didn't know who shot him. Then he filed that civil suit against Aaron. And at that point, he swore under oath that it was Aaron Hernandez who shot him. Now he's going on the grand jury and he's going to say, oh, it wasn't Aaron who shot me because he's handling his own civil suit or he wants to kill Aaron. But once he realizes Aaron's going away to prison for life, he can't take out his vengeance the way he wants to. So now he's going to be honest in front of a jury. So that does

make sense to me. Did I explain it correctly? Did I explain it in a way that makes sense to you? Yeah, I'm following you. Jose Baez told the jury that Aaron hadn't shot Bradley. Bradley had been shot by some drug dealers that he knew in Florida, and he had just accused Aaron so that he could sue him and get some money out of it. And in Boston, it had been Bradley who had killed Daniel D'Abreu and Zafiro Furtado, not Aaron. But there were other witnesses like Bradley's cousin, Robert Lindsay, who testified that the day after the shooting in Florida, Bradley had called him and told him Aaron Hernandez had done it. And Sofiro Furtado and Daniel D'Abreu's friend, I forget his name right now, he was in the backseat and he identified Aaron Hernandez as the shooter. So, you know, it's just like there was a lot of witnesses who supported what Bradley

had said. Jose Baez, who claimed he believed Aaron was innocent of even Odin Lloyd's murder, told the jury, quote, there is absolutely no evidence that Aaron Hernandez committed this crime. What is scary is how easy it appears to be charged with such crimes, end quote. In closing statements, the prosecution laid out the evidence that they had. The vehicle was found in Aaron's cousin's garage. The murder weapon had been found in the possession of someone who was once again connected to Aaron's family. The tattoos Aaron had gotten in California shortly after the shooting.

The DA, Patrick Hagan, claimed that Aaron's tattoo had said, God forgives, meaning he was asking for forgiveness for what he had done. And Patrick Hagan said, quote, God forgives his statements, his words. That is a confession. But this is, his words. That is a confession. But this is not a church. This is a courtroom. What matters in this room is the truth. What matters in this room is accountability. What matters in this room is a fair and just verdict based on the evidence and not based on wild speculation, conjecture, and conspiracy theories. It has been five years since Zafiro Furtado and Daniel D'Abrail were gunned down in cold blood. Their lives matter in this room as well. The time for accountability

is right now. His time is right now. Speak the truth through your verdicts and find him guilty. End quote. But the jury did not find Aaron guilty. After deliberating for 37 hours, they returned with a verdict of not guilty. Afterwards, many jury members came forward and said that they had struggled with this decision, but they'd felt that the prosecution had not met their burden of proof for a first-degree murder conviction. The foreperson of the jury, Lindsay Stringer, she told the Boston Globe, quote, I want to be very clear that a verdict of not guilty does not mean that we declared Aaron Hernandez innocent. There were basically differences of opinion on the level of potential involvement that Hernandez had in the murders, end quote. Stringer also claimed that many jurors were unaware that Aaron was already serving a life sentence for shooting another man to death.

And, you know, it hadn't been allowed into evidence during the trial, but if it had, she believes it may have made a difference in the end verdict. At the end of the day, it really didn't make much of a difference in the life of Aaron Hernandez, as even after his not guilty verdict, he returned to the Sousa Baronski Correctional Center in Lancaster, Massachusetts. Aaron returned to his routine behind bars, getting into fights, visiting with his loved ones when he could, and long phone calls with Cheyanna Jenkins, where he would sometimes get to speak to his baby daughter and tell her that he loved her. But according to an internal prison report, Aaron didn't seem his normal happy-go-lucky self.

During the trial, he had been talking about what he would do if Baez was able to get him acquitted. He might get out of prison at a young enough age where he could enjoy a handful of years with his family. But now that Baez had worked his magic, Aaron seemed down and depressed. Aaron had been found not guilty on April 14, 2017. And on April 19th, just two days later, he was found dead in his jail cell after hanging himself with his own bedsheets. We're going to take our last break and we'll be right back. So when Aaron was found, he had written a Bible verse on his forehead in red ink, John 3.16. A nearby Bible was opened to the same passage, which was marked in blood from Aaron's own finger. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, the verse read. On the wall, Aaron had also written John 3.16 in his own blood, and he'd drawn a pyramid, like the one seen on the back of a dollar bill, with one word written underneath it, Illuminati. So I'm going to just cut in here because I did not know this. I had read it somewhere and I did not think it was real, but then I read it in James Patterson's book and I was like, okay, I got to figure out if this is real. And I fact-checked and found it in four other separate sources. He did make the Illuminati pyramid and write Illuminati. I think Aaron was trolling us because listen, no one wants to believe

in conspiracy theories more than me. And there's a big conspiracy theory that a bunch of celebrities are in the Illuminati, like Cardi B and all that. And I think he was trolling us at this point. He just wanted to kind of be dramatic and make a huge exit. So I want to weigh in on this because this was something that was really speculated about. I mean, there was a lot of people who had opinions on it and there was a couple of things. So at the time when, and correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, Stephanie, at the time when he was found not guilty on the double murder, there was already an appeal in for the Odin Lloyd homicide as well, which he was found guilty of.

So at that point, based on how the courts work, because there was an current appeal, technically he is still innocent because at that point, it is now under review again where he may get a new trial. We're going to get there because it's not that simple. Okay. It ended up not being that simple. Okay. So let me just focus on the Illuminati thing. Okay.

As far as the trolling, I'll have to disagree with you there. And I know we're going to get there, so I won't go into detail. But I think it was basically a red herring. I think Aaron was trying to suggest that he was murdered. And that'll become more clear as to why he would do something like that as we go forward. Yeah, I think I know where you're going with it. And I want to hear why you think that when we get there, because that's very interesting. I had not considered it. Okay.

Before he had taken his own life, Aaron made stigmata-like marks in blood on both of his feet. He took all of his clothes off and dumped several bottles of shampoo on the floor. According to James Patterson's book, All-American Murderer, quote, Hernandez tied one end of the twisted sheet to the top of one of the vertical slats on the window across from the door to his cell. quote, determination on Aaron's part. First, he rolled up some towels and stuck them through the crossbar so that the twisted sheet wouldn't slide down the vertical slat. Then he tied the other end of the sheet around his neck, end quote. After the jury read out the verdict in the double homicide, Hernandez mouthed the words, I love you, to his fiance. Hernandez's c is in pain tonight. He wa it and um from our side o

first one reaction to her in from around the countr dog tweeting. This is sad Dante Stallworth remindin Hernandez's four year old suffer from this loss. At the risk of sounding cold or callous, you know, honestly, I was somewhat indifferent to the news because at the end of the day, we're talking about someone with a very violent past who killed someone. Most of my condolences still go to the families that are missing loved ones.

Today, officials at the Massachusetts Department of Corrections said they had no prior concern that Hernandez was planning to take his own life. Lawyers for Hernandez say they were actually exploring an appeal to the murder conviction for which he was serving the life sentence. Those who knew Hernandez personally are expressing doubts as to whether he killed himself. We still think that there's no way that Aaron would take his own life. One of his agents, Brian Murphy, took to Twitter to say absolutely no chance he took his own life. The Massachusetts State Police and the Worcester County DA's office are now investigating the circumstances of Hernandez's death. An autopsy is being performed

in Boston. They're also looking at his recent time in prison, including prior fights and any gang-related disputes he may have had. Hernandez was found dead just hours before his former teammates from the Patriots paid a visit to the White House to celebrate their recent Super Bowl victory. A spokesperson for the Patriots said they would not be commenting today on Hernandez's death. The Patriots head coach, however, Bill Belichick, when asked during a recent CNBC interview what one word he would use to describe Hernandez, said the following. Tragedy. Heartbreaking. Yes, that would be another word. Not everyone believed that Aaron would do this to himself or his loved ones, and if he had done it, it might have been connected to a radio program that had aired two days before his suicide.

An investigative reporter in Boston named Michelle McPhee had appeared on a sports radio show, claiming that she had a juicy rumor. One of the hosts said, quote, this rumor, this Aaron Hernandez rumor, which is so juicy, I want to get into it. It is big, end quote. McPhee responded, quote, I mean, hey, let's tease away, end quote. The host announced, quote, Michelle knows the real motive for the murder of Odin Lloyd, and let's just say that Odin Lloyd caught Aaron Hernandez in a compromising position, end quote. McPhee responded, quote, you could say that Aaron Hernandez was a former tight end before he was kicked off the Patriots, end quote. Another host said, quote, tight end on and off the field, end quote, to which the first host responded, quote, and then he became a wide receiver, end quote.

The second host asked Michelle McPhee, quote, so you think he's comfortable in the prison lifestyle? He's probably doing well for himself romantically, perhaps, end quote. Michelle McPhee responded, quote, let's just say that Aaron Hernandez is known to kick with both feet, end quote. So although we've talked about Aaron's sexuality before, understand that none of this had come out before this. Like no one, you know, Dennis Sansousi hadn't said anything. No one had said anything about Aaron possibly being gay or bisexual. So the first radio host asked, quote, and Odin Lloyd knew it, end quote, with McPhee finishing his sentence saying, quote, he made the unfortunate move to say that out loud to somebody, end quote. Like I said, we have touched on Aaron Hernandez's sexuality briefly, and I don't want to spend too much time on it because if it's true, I think it was clearly something Aaron himself was not comfortable publicly talking about when he was alive, but many people do believe that it may have been connected to his motive for killing Odin.

In his book, The Truth About Aaron, DJ Hernandez mentions a time when he was nine and Aaron was six, when they were playing hide-and-seek at a babysitter's house. DJ claims that at this time, Aaron was forced into a tent by an older boy who sexually abused him. And during the Netflix docuseries, Aaron's high school friend, Dennis Sansusi, claimed that he and Aaron had engaged in an on-again, off-again sexual relationship throughout most of high school. Additionally, in 2020, a former inmate at the Sousa Baranowski Correctional Facility claimed that he had been Aaron's prison lover. Kyle Kennedy claimed that he and Aaron had started off as close friends who did everything together from getting high to listening to music in their cells, and when their relationship turned physical, they were intimate one to two times a week, and they would write letters to each other back and forth all day, with one alleged letter from Aaron to Kyle reading, quote, I miss you so much. You should be awake knowing you sleep all fucking day, lol. I just

wish we were cellmates so I could at least kiss you on the forehead and say I love you, then let you sleep while I make sure you have your coffee ready when you wake up. I just wanted to tell you this morning that I love you. You never have to question us. I will stop questioning you and us. I realized through our thing over the past few days how much I love you and how much I want you and us. Mainly how I want you to know what real love, real loyalty is, and to experience someone who is with you through all in life. We will have ups and downs, times of pain and suffering, but together we will make it right. I'm sorry for overreacting, but it's something I have to work on because I'm used to being done dirty my whole life. End quote.

Kyle Kennedy also claims that Aaron confessed to him that he had killed four people. Kyle Kennedy sat down with the author of a new book about Hernandez and wasn't shy, sharing intimate details about the former New England Patriot and claims that Aaron Hernandez told him about a fourth killing as well. HERNANDEZ. THE FAMILY SAYS HE WASN'T SHY ABOUT HERNANDEZ AND WASN'T SHY SHARING INTIMATE DETAILS ABOUT THE FORMER NEW ENGLAND PATRIOT AND CLAIMS THAT AARON HERNANDEZ TOLD HIM ABOUT A FOURTH KILLING AS WELL. WEARING PRISON SCRUBS AND COVERED IN TATTOOS, KYLE KENNEDY DROPPED A BOMBSHELL ABOUT AARON HERNANDEZ.

WE CALL HIM DOUBLE A, YOU KNOW, AND WE GOT TWO BARTY'S LIKE, AND I USED TO TELL HIM BABY WE SHOULD CALL YOU TRIPLE A. HE'S LIKE, NAH, HE'S LIKE FOUR. YOU KNOW, WE'RE SITTING IN SOMEWHERE, BUT YOU MEAN FOUR.

HE'S LIKE, YO, HE'S LIKE, YO, I GOT FOUR. HE'S LIKE, I GOT FOUR. HE'S LIKE, I GOT FOUR. HE'S LIKE, I GOT FOUR. HE'S LIKE, I GOT FOUR. HE'S LIKE, WHAT? I WAS LIKE, WHAT? HE WAS LIKE, YOU GOT TWO BODIES. I USED TO TELL HIM, WE SHOULD CALL YOU TRIPLE A. HE WAS LIKE, NO, FOUR. YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT YOU MEAN FOUR.

HE WAS LIKE, I GOT FOUR BODIES. DID YOU BELIEVE HIM? WHAT WE WERE ABLE TO ESTABLISH IS A CREDIBLE LEAD THAT SUGGESTS THAT AARON HERNANDEZ COULD HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN A FOURTH MURDER.

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1. 1. 1. HE WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT DISTRACTED. HE WAS JUST A LITTLE BIT DISTRACTED. HE WAS JUST DRIVING THE LIGHT AND HE WAS LIKE, THAT'S THE FIRST TIME. HOW MUCH OF A DARK SECRET WAS THIS FOR HIM TO CARRY

AROUND AS A BURDEN? I COULD TELL ONCE HE STARTED OPENING UP TO ME AND TALKING TO ME EVERY DAY, I COULD JUST SEE IT IN HIS EYES. HE WAS GETTING HAPPIER. HE WAS JUST BEING ABLE TO CONFIDE IN SOMEONE.

SOMETHING THAT HE COULDN'T TALK TO ANYBODY ABOUT. HOWARD SAYS KENNEDY WANTED TO TALK AND TELL HIS THEIR LIVES. HE WAS A VERY, VERY DANGEROUS PERSON. HE WAS A VERY, VERY DANGEROUS PERSON. HOWARD SAYS KENNEDY WANTED TO TALK AND TELL HIS STORY. HE WAS SOMEONE WHO HAD BEEN DENIED PUBLICLY AS AARON'S LOVER, WHO HE CLAIMS HAD

WRITTEN A FOURTH SUICIDE LETTER TO HIM, BUT THAT AARON'S LAWYER AND FAMILY PREVENTED HIM FROM GETTING IT. KENNEDY SAYS HERNANDEZ CONFESSED TO THE 2013 BOSTON DOUBLE MURDER THAT HE WAS LATER ACQUITTED OF. to the 2013 Boston double murder that he was later acquitted of. Basically, you know, he felt disrespected by him. He said they waited down the street in a parking garage for like three or four hours.

They knew what kind of car they were in. And, you know, he told me he'd seen him go by. He pulled up next to him. You know, he meant to kill the one kid in the passenger seat. He told you in explicit detail how he in cold blood murdered two people but he also told you he was prepared to lie before a jury of his peers. Who comes to prison and wants to admit what they did you know I've lied on the stand a hundred times. Kennedy also claims Hernandez told him why he killed Odin Lloyd. And he was just telling me that was my boy THE FAMILY IS STILL CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR FAMILY'S DEATH. BUT THE FAMILY CLAIMS HERNANDEZ TOLD HIM WHY HE

KILLED ODIN LLOYD. HE WAS JUST TELLING ME THAT WAS MY BOY. HE WASN'T LOYAL TO ME. HE DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, I COULDN'T TRUST HIM. BUT KENNEDY SAYS HERNANDEZ DID TRUST HIM.

THE MEDIA JUST MAKES HIM LOOK LIKE A MONSTER. YOU KNOW, HE'S THIS KID THAT HAD EVERYTHING GOING FOR HIM, YOU KNOW, AND HE JUST, WHY DID HE DO this? And that's not the only question that was left unanswered. No one can answer or explain why he decided to take his own life. Kennedy, who was put on suicide watch after learning Hernandez hung himself, says he was a tortured soul.

We were together for a while. He just wanted to be real with himself before anyone. He's like, you know, he's like, I feel like I'm hiding in my own skin. He wanted to come out and tell the world he just didn't know how his family would handle it and that kid had a big heart he worried about everyone else like first you know worried about what his daughter might think he had plans on going home i i'm going home soon you know or we could be together on the street what would people say would you be able to handle it? That was all new to me. So many thoughts on this.

First off, you got to start by saying that this guy admitted he lies all the time on the stand under oath. So that kind of shoots your credibility. But that being pointed out, there's probably some truth to this. Just from my opinion, there's probably some truth to this relationship.

Whether Aaron was gay growing up and this was something he thought about, or this was something that he decided to explore when he was in prison, which is the case with many men that go to prison. I shouldn't say many, but some men that go to prison. So there may be some truth to it, but I don't really care. And I'm not to be insensitive, but whatever his sexual preference was, I don't care. I mean, it doesn't matter to me. He's still a killer. And as far as the four people that he might be involved in, that could be a situation where he's trying to even increase his legacy, his prison legacy, or it wouldn't surprise me at all if there was some truth to that. We learned about the double homicide. We learned about Odin Lloyd. He may be counting

Alexander Bradley. I don't know. And there may be another one that we weren't aware of that nobody ever came out and admitted to that absolutely possible. We wouldn't even really know about the double homicide if it wasn't for Odin Lloyd. So there's a lot to take out of that. As far as this radio show that kind of brought this information out, it was very insensitive. It was completely unprofessional, disrespectful. And being someone from the New England area, it was a national story, but it was very prominent up here as well.

And a lot of people turned on them. I don't know if they're still in business or if they got fired. I can't recall. But they got a lot of backlash for it, as they should, because the way they were, not only did they come out with this information, but the way they were framing it, some of the quotes they were using that you put out there, what are you doing? What are you doing? It just makes no sense to me whatsoever. And I remember they really's so embarrassed by it. He kills himself. For me personally, I don't believe that. I don't believe that was the motive. So to kind of narrow it down to what we're really trying to get to the root of here, I don't believe that was the reason why Aaron killed himself. Because I do think Aaron being a proven liar, that he would have just said, nah, that's not true. They don't know what they're talking about. I believe there was something more going on here. We're going to

get there, but there was definitely something more going on here than him being embarrassed about these allegations of him possibly being gay. Yeah. I'm not sure how much I believe of this. Those letters that Aaron allegedly wrote Kyle Kennedy in prison, they were published in a book called Aaron Hernandez's Killing Fields, which I was not going to buy that book or read it with that inflammatory title. But I still don't know how much truth there is to it. And if Kyle Kennedy knew that Aaron was worried about his family, you know, what his family and his daughter were going to think. And Kyle loved Aaron as much as he claimed to. Like, why did he come out and publicly expose him after his death? I don't know how I feel about it. It seems very opportunistic, but whatever. Like you said, it doesn't matter. It

only matters in the sense where it might have been a motive to kill Odin Lloyd. But even Jose Baez in his own book about Aaron called Unnecessary Roughness, that was a title that also I felt was a little inappropriate. He claimed that Aaron had been struggling with his sexuality. Baez claims that during the final days of the double he was scared how Shayana would react to hearing this as he didn't know how she was going to feel about his relationship with a same-sex partner who also happened to be a mutual friend of the couple. Baez claims he told Shayana and he wrote, quote, this is the shit they don't teach in law school. While the news about the woman did not shake her, I could see the betrayal in her face when I mentioned the man. She knew him and had spent time with him and Aaron. She felt like a fool."

The prosecution did not end up asking Shayana about these affairs in court, which I guess, once again, I'm confused why Jose Baez included it in his book. It just all feels so exploitative to me, all of it. But everyone said Aaron was know, Aaron was uncomfortable with it, but then they're running their mouths after he's gone. And I know he did some terrible things, but like he's still entitled to his secrets if he wanted them kept. And Shanna Jenkins, you know, she kind of felt the same way. And she expressed her distaste for all of this when talking to ABC News. What was in the documentary that shouldn't have been, in your opinion? I would have to say Aaron's sexuality. You can't describe someone's sexuality without them being here.

Although I've had a child with Aaron I still can't tell you how he was feeling inside. No one can. Do you want to comment at all on that aspect of this documentary and the rumors that have been there that Aaron may have been bisexual or gay? If he did feel that way, or... if he felt the urge,

I wish that I was told. I wish that he, you know, he would have told me because I wouldn't. I would not have loved him any differently. I would have understood. It's not shameful. And I don't think anybody should feel shameful on who they are inside, regardless of who they love. I think it's a beautiful thing. I just, I wish I was able to tell him that. embarrassment from their peers, from their parents, whatever the reason may be. We know that's a fact. And so to think that someone like Aaron Hernandez, who we've established,

was trying to create this persona, this hardened street persona, it would most likely not be accepted by his peers, especially in that particular group if he was gay or even bisexual. So there were many reasons why he would hide that, not only from his fellow football players, but also his friends, his family, what have you. So it's unfortunate to think that he might've been in that situation and really felt like he couldn't be who he was inside because of his life, because of being a celebrity. But for me, although it doesn't matter, the only thing that's really important here, was it part of the motive for killing Odin Lloyd. And was it part of the reasoning why he killed himself or someone would kill him?

That's the only components for it for me. If it doesn't relate to those things, whatever was going on in his personal life, it's really none of our business. Yeah, I absolutely agree. Like, who cares? Who cares? I mean, unless you're his fiance. It's 2022. Yeah, but I mean, like, it's none of your business, anybody's business who he's sleeping with, unless you're like in a relationship with him.

And then I guess you have a right to have an opinion about it. But other than that, I don't see why it even matters. Like, he's still a bad guy for killing a bunch of people. And he could still be a broken and like, you know, tragic figure, too, who had to constantly hide who he was. He can be both of those things at once. And we can have sympathy for one part and not have sympathy for the other part. But when Aaron took his own life, he left behind three letters, one for his daughter,

Aviel, one for his lawyer, Jose Baez, and one for his fiance, Shana Jenkins. To his daughter, he wrote, quote, Daddy will never leave you. I'm entering the timeless realm in which I can enter any form at any time because everything that could happen or not happened, I see all at once. Life is eternal. Believe, love, repent, and see me slash yourself in everyone because that's what the truth is. I'll see you all in the heavens awaiting you all with the same love. Never fear me, but love me with all of you. Fear is the only separation between you and I. We are each other. I slash you, you slash me. There's no need to fear what you do onto another will come back around, end quote. To Shayana, Aaron wrote, quote, Shay,

you've always been my soulmate and I want you to love life and know I'm always with you. I told you what was coming indirectly. I love you so much and know you are an angel. We split into two to come change the world. Your characteristic is that of a true angel and the definition of God's love. Tell my story fully, but never think anything besides how much I love you. This was the supreme almighty's plan, not mine. I love you. Let Avi know how much I love her. You're rich, end quote. So the final words, you're rich, those are the ones that have been debated in the years since Aaron's passing. In the Netflix docuseries, they mentioned how Aaron had heard in prison that if you were an inmate and you died while you had an open appeal, you would be

acquitted of that charge and considered innocent. It's a principle known as abatement ab initio, meaning from the beginning, and the month after his death, Aaron's murder conviction was vacated, with Judge Susan Garsh saying, quote, in the interest of justice, the court has no choice but to vacate Hernandez's conviction and dismissing the charges against him, end quote. It was said that Aaron had made the decision to take his own life so that the New England Patriots would have to pay out the remainder of his guaranteed money from his contract, ensuring that Cheyenne and AVL would be set for life. Just before the 2012 season had kicked off, the Patriots gave Aaron a $40 million contract extension

with $16 million of that being guaranteed. After his arrest, the team refused to make a bonus payment of $3.25 million, leading the National Football Players Association, which is a union representing professional football players, to file a grievance on Aaron's behalf. This was while Aaron was still alive and in prison awaiting his murder trial. The Patriots fought back, filing their own grievance, which asked for Aaron to return all the money he had been paid under the contract extension. In response, the union filed another grievance on Aaron's behalf, asking for an $82,000 workout bonus. These grievances had all been put on hold until Aaron's legal battles were concluded. But when his conviction was vacated, they went into

motion again. According to Sports Illustrated, the Patriots had settled a grievance that Aaron had filed in 2014, which gave the team a salary cap credit of $1.184 million, which indicated that the Patriots had won in that situation. And according to Joel Corey, an attorney and a salary cap expert, quote, Typically, when there's a settlement, there's some sort of catch-all language. This will resolve all claims known or which could have been known in the future. I haven't seen too many settlements which don't have that type or form of that kind

of language, end quote. So meaning basically, no, the Patriots would not owe Aaron's estate any money. And if that was why Aaron had ended his life, he had done so in vain. Now, is this where you come back to the Illuminati thing where he was trying to make it seem like somebody had killed him? I think that's part of it. I think that there might have been some confusion on his part. I do think that he felt like if he died during the appeal, which did happen, the charge would be vacated. He's technically innocent now in the eyes of the law, right? And so by killing himself and he put it in his own words, you're rich. He felt like he wasn't going to get out and he wanted to make sure that his daughter and

Shayana were taken care of. So I feel like he was trying to do it during that time period to make sure that it happened and maybe throw a red herring in there that might suggest, hey, did he kill himself or did someone else do it and make it look like a suicide? There's also an element, which I know we're going to get into next, where I believe, I know you believe, that there was some severe issues going on inside Aaron's head. No doubt about it. And we're going to dive into it right now. But I also think that played into some of the decisions he was making, some of the things he might've been writing, because he

wasn't thinking with a clear brain, honestly, because of his involvement with football. So I think we need to dive into that before we can have it make sense as to why he was doing things that may seem odd to us, but may make more sense after you learn about the CTE element. So wait, would it have made a difference as far as getting that money if he had been murdered as opposed to committing suicide? Or do you think he just didn't want people to think he had taken his own life and he would rather have them think that he'd been killed? The frame of thought that I'm coming from is I think about life insurance, and I don't know if it would be different. if you if you kill yourself your life insurance policy is not

going to go to your family and friends right it has to be something that's outside of your control and i think maybe that might have been an element but i will go right on record and say nobody knows what aaron was thinking at that time and i know there are people who do believe that aaron did not kill himself many people actually. As far as the elements of that crime, of that situation, my thought on it is he did kill himself. And there are elements that would suggest that he did. He took some measures to make sure that once he started the suicide, he couldn't stop it. That being the soap on the floor, things of that nature. So it does suggest to me that he didn't. And also he wrote letters that I'm sure you were able to verify through handwriting analysis that they were

written by him. It would be very hard for me to believe that someone, anyone would be able to make Aaron Hernandez write a letter he didn't want to write. I think he would have fought to the death before doing something like that if he was told to do that by some other person. He doesn't seem like a guy that coward to anybody. I don't know if there's a person on this planet that could have convinced him to write those letters against his will. So I believe he wrote them and I believe that he meant what he wrote. And don't take my words for it. Take his words. You're rich. That's the last words he wrote. So when you're trying to put together what the motive would have been after he just beat a charge, right? He's only got one charge left to beat. He's a free man. But playing the odds, knowing how much of an uphill battle he had with that, he knew that this window of

opportunity was very small. And if he rolled the dice and took the risk, he could lose and his family would end up with nothing. So I think that's the option he chose. I just don't know or understand, I guess, how he went from being so optimistic about the appeal. He was saying like, oh, I think with this appeal, I'm going to get out in a couple of years. I'm going to be with my family. I'm going to be able to see my daughter grow up. Just in a couple of days to go from being so optimistic to completely despondent where there's no hope and you're taking your own life. Maybe him saying- What does that go back to for us?

I feel like with Aaron, he's always putting on- CTE, man. Yeah, or with Aaron, he's always putting on a front. Everything's great. Everything's good. Even when he was first arrested, he was like, don't worry, I'm going to be out of here in no time. There's no way this charge is going to stick.

So either he truly believed that, and then at some point, maybe the CTE kicked in, it's going to give his moods swinging all wild all over the place, and he just felt very down one day. I don't know. It's sad because now his daughter doesn't even get to talk to him on the phone or see him in prison. That's right. And I'm no doctor, but just based on what we know about CTE at this point, it makes a person very erratic up and down as far as their mood swings and they can become very violent against themselves and others. We know we can go into it. Junior Seau, he took his own life. He was a famous linebacker, played for the Patriots, played for the San Diego Chargers, got to a point where he was so depressed and so out of it from CTE that he shot himself in the chest just so they

could examine his brain while it was still intact. So CTE is a real thing. I absolutely, there's no doubt, as you're going to get into, Aaron suffered from it. So I do think that his cognitive behavior was based very heavily on this diagnosis, which let's just get right into it because it's really fascinating when you think about Aaron Hernandez. Everything we've learned about, now you're going to throw this in there and it's going to really start to explain why he may have done some of the things he did. We're not justifying those things, but we always want to know the why. And this might

give us some insight into that. So over the course of his short life, Aaron Hernandez had received quite a few head injuries. According to DJ Hernandez, as far as he can remember, Aaron's earliest concussions had happened in childhood, once when he was ice skating and he slammed headfirst into a wall. And then when Aaron was in the first grade, DJ accidentally hit him in the head with a hammer. During his football career in high school, college, and then for the Patriots, Aaron also suffered from multiple concussions. So CTE is brain degeneration caused by repeated head traumas, and it's been found in the brains of people who play contact sports, such as football and boxing. Some symptoms of CTE can be difficult with

cognition and emotions, memory loss, and problems with planning, organization, and carrying out tasks. It can also lead to behavioral changes like impulse behavior and aggression. According to research done at Boston University, researchers studied the donated brains of 202 football players, and they found CTE in 99% of these brains. Mike Webster was the first former NFL player to be diagnosed with CTE, and during his illustrious 17-year career, he was considered to be the greatest center to play in the league. After his retirement, he suffered from amnesia, dementia, and depression for many years. After his death, Webster was diagnosed with the degenerative disease by a forensic neuropathologist named Bennett Amalu. And this is the concussion movie that you told me and everyone to watch. It's about Bennett Amalu.

Got to watch it, guys. You should definitely watch it because I did watch it, by the way. It was really good. Incredible movie, right? Yeah. Sad. Sad and frustrating. Very good. Yeah. Sad. Sad and frustrating. Very sad. So when Amalu noticed that Webster's brain looked normal on the outside, but when he cut it open, inside he discovered tangled accumulations of a protein called tau, which is often seen in the brains of dementia patients. But it was not what Amalu would typically expect to see in the brain of a 50-year-old man.

Now, initially, the NFL was not happy to get this news, and they attacked Amalu and his findings, but in the years that followed, CTE was found in the brains of football player after football player. 32-year-old Phillip Adams, who played for many NFL teams, including the Patriots, he shot and killed six people in April of 2021 before taking his own life. When his brain was examined, he was found to have an unusually severe form of CTE, almost as severe as Aaron Hernandez's. Andre Waters was 44 years old when he shot himself in the head, and when his brain was examined by Dr. Bennett Amalu, the neuropathologist said the brain tissue had degenerated into that of an 85-year-old man with similar characteristics of early-stage Alzheimer's victims. Dr. Bennett Amalu claimed that the depression Waters was

showing in his final years was almost certainly exacerbated, if not caused by the state of his brain, and if he had lived for another 10 to 15 years, Waters would have been fully incapacitated. The brain of former Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher was also examined after he murdered his girlfriend and took his own life in 2012, and he also had CTE. So did Junior Seau, as you just mentioned, and David Dorsen, who both took their own lives. When Jose Baez addressed the media in the wake of Aaron's suicide, he told them that Boston University was going to be looking at Aaron's brain as well. brain injury had to do with the apparent suicide of Aaron Hernandez? We're not suggesting anything and here's one thing that you have to understand. When you conduct an investigation, you don't look for a specific result.

You go where the evidence takes you. Right now, this is part of our investigation where we need to examine every aspect of this case and this is an important one of course. We're very lucky that Boston University is right here in your backyard and we want to take full advantage of the resources and not only that, the good that can go to donating Aaron's brain to future boys who decide to play this game and girls

who decide to play this game and there may be significant risks involved. And if they can learn anything from Aaron Hernandez's brain, we certainly want to. Jose, are you suggesting or do you suspect that Aaron Hernandez was suffering from CTE? Again, you don't make a conclusion without looking. All right. Are you ready for this? Sure. I'm going to give Jose Baez some props here.

I know I hate him. I know. I know I hate him. Whoa. And that hasn't changed. Mark it. But I do like how, you know, these reporters were trying to be like, you know, to say he's got CTE, man, say it.

And Jose Baez is like, no, you don't make a conclusion and then find evidence to support it. You go where it takes you. Like, it's a possibility. It's potentially, you know, a factor, but we're going to wait and see. So I like that. That wasn't that hard for me, honestly, because, you know, it's a good job. Good job, Jose.

Okay, you don't need a break? What? Need a break or anything? No, I feel good, man. Yeah, Jose. Woo! Give me some of your trading cards, Derek. I'll send them your way.

Gotta catch them all. Hey, listen, you gotta, gotta, gotta appreciate, you know, what he does. I do think he's a, you know, a well-spoken guy. I think he's smart and I think he knows what he's doing. I think he knows what he's doing. And I may not like some of the, the, the angles he, he takes to, to get where he wants to go. But I do think that it's fair to say that as i said earlier there are cops out there who take shortcuts to get where they want to go and you need to have some counterbalance to that and i think jose baez does represent that counterbalance hold on you're saying that one side does bad things so the other side has to also do bad

things to make... Yeah, no. Is that what you said? No, I'm saying it happens. Oh. I'm saying it happens and it would be hypocritical of me to sit here and slam Jose and any other lawyer who may be doing this and not acknowledge that it does happen. This isn't one-sided.

And so I wish, which was the argument I was trying to make last episode, we would all just be in it for the same reason, both prosecution and defense, where ultimately we just want the truth. And if the truth smacks us in the face, even during the trial, we can all come together and say, okay, we know this is what happened. Let's do what's right by the family. But what we do know is the prosecution has their story. They're going to focus on things that prove their theory right.

And the defense is going to focus on things that prove their theory right, and the defense is going to do it as well. And both sides over the years have been guilty of omitting certain facts that may not support their theory or basically finding technicalities to rule out other people's theory. So it's the game, and that's why I hate the judicial system. It's not fair on either side. I just can't forgive him for Casey Anthony. I can't forgive him for that. I can't. That's a tough one. I know it's I know that's the source, the source of your resentment. I know it's hard to get past.

And I'm with you and I'm with you. But, you know, you could also say law enforcement prosecution that could have did a better job. And that's what I'm sure Baez would have said. I'm sure it is. What has he has said that? There you go. There you go. Well, as it turned out, the Boston researcher who examined Aaron's brain found that he had the most severe form of CTE that she had ever seen in someone his age. Dr. Ann McKee, who directs CTE research at the university, claimed her research team had found the 27-year-old had

stage 3 CTE, that's stage 3 out of 4, and they had never seen such severe damage in a brain younger than 46 years old. During a medical conference, Dr. McKee said, quote, we can't take the pathology and explain the behavior, but we can say collectively that individuals with CTE of this severity have difficulty with impulse control, decision-making, aggression, often emotional volatility, and rage behavior. End quote. It was also discovered that Aaron had been born with a genetic marker associated with neurodegenerative diseases, which could have contributed to the severity of his condition.

What was the most significant takeaway from your findings? The most significant that this, for an individual who was only 27 at the time that he died, he had a very advanced disease. And not only was it advanced microscopically, especially in the frontal lobes, which are very important for decision making, judgment, and cognition. But we could see damage to the inner chambers of the brain, the septum, and this would be the first case we've ever seen of that kind of damage in such a young individual. Dr. you've examined a lot of brains of athletes with CTE at this point. Could you put this in the context of that, from the continuum of most severe to the least severe?

Well, this is clearly on the most severe for his age. In fact, he is the most severe. One thing I was also going to mention, given the conversation that we had earlier at the conference, was that Aaron Hernandez was ApoE34. So we know that that's a risk factor for neurodegenerative disease, the inheritance of the E4 allele. Whether or not that contributed in this case is speculative, but it may explain some of his susceptibility to this disease. Yo, so you know what I was thinking when she was talking? What if Aaron Hernandez's father had CTE?

Because Aaron had this genetic marker that predisposed him to neurodegenerative diseases. Aaron Hernandez's father played football all through high school and into college, and his behavior, you know, towards his wife and his kids and just random people, because he was getting in fights with other coaches on the sidelines, might also suggest that he may have been suffering from some sort of CTE situation.

Yeah, I agree. I don't know, because I'm not a doctor, I don't know if environmental elements of his CTE would contribute to Aaron being born with it. But I think what you're saying is if he was born with this, you know. Well, it's a genetic condition. Yeah, whatever it was, then, you know, it could have been passed on genetically to his son.

I think it's definitely possible. And they said right out that most people whose brains were examined after playing football had some form of CTE. What level it was was dependent on the hits they took. But it's very rare to find someone who plays competitive football at a high level and doesn't have CTE. That's at least what I'm taking away from all this research that's come out over the last few years. It would actually be a surprise to not find some level of CTE in a football player. Exactly. And I mean, it's pretty compelling. We'll have John put up pictures of what a typical brain looks like at 27 and what Aaron's brain looked like. His brain was completely trashed. It's actually very sad. And I mean, we're going to talk about this in our final thoughts,

so I'm not going to go too deep into it now. But in the aftermath of this discovery, Shanna Jenkins, with the help of Jose Baez, filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the NFL and the New England Patriots. On the heels of that finding, the family has filed a $20 million lawsuit to compensate his four-year-old daughter for the loss of her father. The allegation is that both the NFL and the Patriots not only knew, but hid the dangers of the sport. Now his family is taking aim at the NFL and his former team, the New England Patriots, saying in a lawsuit, defendants were fully aware of the dangers of exposing NFL players, such as Mr. Hernandez, to repeated traumatic head impacts and blaming them for his death, claiming depression, uncontrollable aggression, and suicidal impulses are recognized to be symptoms of late-stage CTE.

Just last year, the NFL finalized a nearly $1 billion class action lawsuit by former players who claim they suffered traumatic brain injuries during their career. No comment just yet from the NFL or the Patriots. I will say for lawyers representing athletes of contact sports that this is something you should definitely consider having your clients take some of the presumptive tests that are available. It's something that we considered as a team but did not pursue simply because his defense was one of actual innocence and not one of mitigation it's something i deeply regret do you believe jose there so is jose saying now that like

he thinks aaron might not have been innocent of these murders but he didn't bring up the cte thing during the trial because he was going with the whole idea that Aaron was innocent and had nothing to do with it. But now he regrets not using the CTE thing because is he saying Aaron's not innocent of those things? Is he saying he accepts that he's not? Because Jose Baez said he didn't even think Aaron killed Odin Lloyd, which I find it hard to believe how you couldn't think that. So that's a strange twist of events. Yeah, I wasn't completely following there for the exact reasons you said. He was basically at court saying, listen, we went with the argument

that he was innocent. He didn't commit this crime. So therefore, we're going to let the truth set us free. And now there was another angle where he could have said, listen, he did carry out this situation. However, there's mitigating circumstances. There's a reason why he did it that was outside his control, but you would have had to admit that he was guilty of carrying out that crime. So I'm with you. I don't know. It's two different arguments. And I don't know if we're, you know, I'm speaking on his behalf and I'm with you. I don't know. It's two different arguments. And I don't know if we're, you know, I'm speaking on his behalf and I'm out of turn on this, but it's almost sound like, well, the trying to prove his innocence didn't, you know, well, I shouldn't say that because he was found innocent of it. So it did work, but maybe he felt like I should have thrown this

in there. I don't, I don't really know. I think Mr. Baez is the only one who could probably explain that to us. Cause I because I didn't really follow it. Yeah, I didn't. I think he was saying maybe he should have like raised awareness about it. Maybe they should have talked about it. Maybe it would have been, you know, part of the appeal for the Odin Lloyd case that that Jose was spearheading. I don't know. Right.

Maybe just make it more of a highlight it more in the case, you know, like, hey, listen, not only do I think he's innocent, but also understand that even any aggression that he's shown that you might be trying to use against him, there's a reason for that. Maybe. There's a reason why that aggression and those previous examples of aggression are there. It's from outside his control. It doesn't mean he's a murderer, but also these other circumstances that the prosecution's bringing up, they're not really relevant because there's a deeper issue going on here that's not related to the double homicide itself. I don't know.

Maybe. I don't know. But wouldn't bringing that up, the CTE, which makes you have a lack of impulse control, have made the jury think that Aaron did commit the murders? That's why I think it's confusing. Yeah, it is confusing. That's why I think it's confusing. And we will say there is a little of, as you said, and this is true, I've never denied this, there's a level of showmanship and theatrics that go with Baez.

And I feel like he turns it on a little bit for the courtroom and the camera. And that might be the case here. Sometimes I don't even think he knows where he's going with it. He's riding the wave, honestly. That's why he's so good. Yeah. I don't know what he was talking about, but what I do know is not everyone was overly sympathetic to Aaron's condition.

I can't understand for the life of me how we can all sit up here and pick up the issue of CTE as if that's the real issue here. It is not. My apologies to the family of Aaron Hernandez. But let me be very, very clear. Teddy Bruschi ain't going to say it. Max Kellerman, you might not feel that way. Damn it, I'm going to tell you how I feel. Let's get this straight right now. This man was convicted of murder. He was in jail for life without the possibility of parole. His behavior at the University of Florida preceded his behavior since he was in the NFL, after he arrived in the NFL.

It came before that. There have been questions. We have seen articles about how he was conducting himself since he had lost his father. We had seen articles and stories about how he was conducting himself since he had lost his father. We had seen articles and stories about how he was conducting himself at Florida. We had heard about transgressions as a college student before he arrived in the National Football League. And then obviously after Odin Lloyd was murdered, we heard stuff about what was transpiring since he had arrived in the NFL. Under no circumstances am I diminishing the impact of CTE, how legitimate of an issue that is, how there's somewhat of a dereliction of duty on a part of the

NFL from a moral perspective to address this issue. I'm not disputing it. I'm not questioning it. What I am saying is you don't get to be a lawyer for Aaron Hernandez family, show up to try to sue the Patriots and try to sue the NFL and all of a sudden get us all caught up in CTE to the point where we diminish the murder conviction that had you in jail for the rest of your life. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. Oh, the Lloyd family don't want to hear that. You think they want to hear CTE this morning? Stephen A. Smith, man. He doesn't.

He will never spare us of the theatrics. I don't know if you know Stephen A. Smith. Yeah, actually, I do. I mean, he always brings it. He always brings that next level of entertainment. That's why he's a multimillionaire. Yeah. Thanks to ESPN.

He was mad. That's him every day, though. No, exactly. You're right. It's that very aggressive energy, which I sometimes- Every day. I sometimes take on myself, so I relate to it. And I do want to discuss what he said in our in our final thoughts, because I think there are two sides to this coin and we should discuss that.

But in March of 2019, Aaron Hernandez's murder conviction was reinstated after the Supreme Judicial Court found that the legal rule which had erased his conviction was, quote, outdated and no longer consonant with the circumstances of contemporary life, end quote. The court also ordered that the practice be abolished for future cases. Odin Lloyd's mother settled a wrongful death lawsuit with the Hernandez estate in September of 2017, and an attorney for Lloyd's family said that they were pleased with the court's new ruling. Aaron's estate also settled wrongful death suits in the deaths of Daniel D'Abreu and Zafiro Furtado in 2019, which I think is somewhat of an admittance of guilt at that point. You know, he's dead and his family is sort of taking responsibility for these murders. That same year, a federal judge dismissed the lawsuit brought by Aaron's family, who were seeking $20 million from the NFL. The judge said,

quote, because Aaron Hernandez did not plead that he was taking active steps toward employment as an NFL football player as of July 7, 2014, and because it would have been impossible for Hernandez to do so while indefinitely incarcerated, Hernandez is a retired football player within the meaning of the settlement. Allowing the suit to proceed would be allowing relitigation of settled questions at the core of the NFL settlement, end quote. So apparently there was a 2014 deadline to opt out of a class action lawsuit that had been brought against the league and Aaron had not opted out. Therefore, his family was not allowed to sue the league or the Patriots separately because they'd been considered as part of that class action lawsuit. So when you're in a class action lawsuit, you can't bring like civil suits or personal suits once that lawsuit settled. And in August of 2019, the NFL reached a $765 million settlement over concussion-related brain injuries among its 18,000 retired players. So if Aaron was part of

that suit, which it makes it seem like he was, his family would have been paid out in that suit, which according to my math is less than $50,000 per person, which is kind of not great. Not great. No. So final thoughts, you want to go first? Yeah. So I don't have a ton to say. We covered this case over five episodes. So I mean, there's a lot that we covered. I'm not going to rehash all things. I will just say to go back to this last segment that you just said, as far as Odin Lloyd's wrongful death lawsuit, which was a civil lawsuit, and then also Daniel D'Abreu and Furtado, their civil lawsuits for anybody who's not familiar with it, with a criminal lawsuit, although the double homicide, Aaron was found not guilty, there's two

different thresholds. There's two different standards with criminal. It's proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is a higher standard with civil. It's the preponderance of evidence, which just essentially means more likely than not. And we went over the double homicide. And although it may not have met the standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, it was concluded in a civil court, which again, lesser threshold to me that it was more likely than not that Aaron Hernandez was involved in the double homicide. And so there were probably two big payments made out to both those families as they should. So that makes sense to me. And I think that's the right call at minimum. I mean,

the right call would have been being found guilty, but at least the family's getting something to move on with their loved one's loss and maybe do some good with it. As far as Aaron's concerned, I think you hit on it a lot earlier when you started talking about CTE. I do believe that Aaron, and even we were joking about it, but Stephen A. Smith, I think nailed it as well. Aaron Hernandez was a dangerous dude. He's been a dangerous dude since he lost his father and he was going down the wrong path by hanging out with the wrong people. We see it with a lot of individuals that don't have these underlying conditions. Do I think that CTE exacerbated his paranoia, his aggression, his tendency to violence?

Absolutely. It definitely inhibited his decision-making process, but I think having the foundation that he had, which was kind of predicated on violence and showing your strength through violence, I think it only just made a bad situation worse. So I don't think necessarily that it would have changed where we are today, but I could absolutely see the other side of the coin that people would make the argument that although he had this paranoia, although he had this tendency for violence, maybe it wouldn't have gotten to the level of murder if it wasn't for CTE. And I'm no expert on CTE. And we've seen numerous cases of people who are not historically violent, like a junior seo, who killed themselves. But yeah, he didn't kill anybody else. So that again goes back to my argument that there was an undertone of violent behavior based on his

upbringing, based on the people he hung around with and what he valued, which was the respect of his peers. And his peers were not necessarily people that you and I would associate with. They were bad people to begin with. So that's where I land on it. I think it's an unfortunate situation all the way around for Odin's family, for the families of the double homicide, for maybe some other cases that he wasn't connected to, but may have been involved in. And then it's obviously sad for Aaron's daughter and to a lesser degree, but still there, Shayana, because I do not believe this is what she wanted or this is what she felt was going on. And I genuinely believed her in that interview where she was crying about Aaron's sexuality. It almost felt to me without me knowing her, like this was information

that was new to her too, for the most part. And she was really sad about the idea that someone she loved was internally going through these things. And he never voiced this to her because she would have been there for him. She would have helped him. So the thought that he was going through this alone really bothers her. So I feel for her there as well. And it's an unfortunate situation all the way around. Nobody wins. Yeah. So as far as the CTE is concerned, I'm going to say that I don't think he would have murdered anybody if not for the CTE. And that may surprise a lot of people because I'm usually pretty hard on these things. And I don't like to make excuses. And I do agree with you, you know, thousands of people. I mean,

there was thousands of names when I was scrolling through this research of people who had CTE, who obviously didn't kill other people, many people who had CTE who didn't even kill themselves, you know, but did suffer with other things like depression and mood swings and things like that. Aaron's case was very severe. So I think you're right. I think that it exacerbated tendencies he already had. But if the CTE hadn't been present, I think he would have had the impulse control to keep himself in check. I do truly believe that. And I do think that the NFL should be held responsible for that. And they should be educating their players and letting their players know when they come in, this is potentially what can happen to you. But what's going to end up happening, and I'm not even sure if it's happening, is the NFL is just going to

have these people, these players sign like waivers when they come in? Like, oh, if you end up getting diagnosed with CTE down the road, like you can't sue us. If you end up killing yourself or someone else, like your family can't sue us. Because what you're doing is you're waiving millions of dollars in front of kids who are fresh out of college, who are talented, who want to be a part of this because they grew up watching it. So yeah, they're going to sign on the dotted line to be like, oh, I'm not going to get CTE. That's all good. And they're going to go and then the NFL is not going to be held liable. And I think that's disgusting because it is very dangerous. And look what it does to these men and their brains. And it's just horrendous. I think that DJ Hernandez was trying to kind of set the stage that Aaron had suffered

from concussions in his early childhood. So maybe that CTE could have started before he even went to college. So, you know, maybe his decision to hang out with the wrong crowd was kind of part of that, part of the impulse control, part of the bad decision making. I don't know. But what I will say is, yeah, there's tons of people who have CTE. Ernest Hemingway, for example, one of my favorite writers, that dude had like 11 concussions, 11 concussions in his life. He was falling on boats. He was hit in his head with all sorts of things. He had so many concussions. And in his later years, he suffered heavily from depression and he ended up taking his own life. So there's a difference between somebody who has this very progressive CTE. They hurt themselves, but they don't hurt others because have been brought out. I don't think it would have been allowed to come out if not for the CT. I think he would have used logically his brain and been like, hey, I'm like a famous football player. I got tons of money. I have the life that I've always

wanted, the life that my father raised me to have, the life that he wanted for me. Why would I ruin it? Why would I throw it away for something so stupid? I think it would have innately been in him to be like, oh, I want to take it out. I want vengeance. But the normal decision-making part of his brain would have stepped in and been like, chill out, dude. Sit down. You're not doing this. And because of the CT, I don't believe he had the capability to do that, which makes me very sad for him and for the victims that he ended up ruining their lives, taking their lives, because there may have been an aspect that was out of his control. But it doesn't mean that he's not guilty and it doesn't mean he's not a murderer. It just means that there was other factors at play and we'll never know for

sure if that factor was a driving force in what he ended up doing. But I suspect that it was. It's possible. I think we can all agree that at the end of the day, what we really have that we know of is three victims. Lloyd, Furtado, Diabre. Don't forget about my boy, Alexander Bradley. Okay. Alexander Bradley.

Don't forget him. I think that those three families lost their loved one, very likely at the hand of Aaron Hernandez. And although there may have been underlying issues going on with it, I think Stephen A nailed it. At the end of the day, he's a murderer. And there may be things that we can address in future situations and future cases in the NFL where we prevent that from happening. But to look at it pragmatically, black and white, regardless of the underlying reasons, Aaron Hernandez carried out these actions and he has to be held accountable for what he did. And to some degree he was. And again, he said it

perfectly. I don't think Odin Lloyd's family is sitting here saying, ah, you know what though, he had CTE, so it's okay. And that's where I'm with. I'm with the victims and they don't get another chance. Yeah, certainly. It doesn't matter to them why they no longer have their loved one. They know they no longer have their loved one and that's it. It doesn't really matter why. Doesn't mean we can't learn from it though, right? We absolutely should learn. Well, we don't need to learn from it. The people, the powers that be need to learn from it, right? The people who are bringing these kids out, putting them on a field and letting them get beat up day in and day out without really worrying about where these guys are going to be in 20 years. And it's not just the brain. I mean, their whole bodies are shot. It's like they suffer from a lot of things as they go forward. Arthritis, like 40, things like that. They really they have like 20 good years and they give it all. Not even that, probably like 10 good years. And they give all of those good years to the NFL. And yeah, some of them get paid big bucks in return. But at the end of the day, I think your health, your health, the one body you have is priceless and should not be exchanged for any sum of money.

I agree. And I'll even say this. I know that you mentioned the NFL. I also think as parents, we can change it. I know that you have a son and a daughter. I have two daughters. I'm very conscientious about my daughter's taking any type of blows to the head, even though they're playing softball, basketball. My brother was an unbelievable football player. I'll say that for him. He played in college, very undersized, and ultimately had to stop playing because of concussion protocol. He had too many concussions. And he'll tell you to this day that he has severe headaches and stuff all the time. And he'll tell you right now, I'm pretty sure he has CTE because of all the blows he took to the head. So I'm very aware of that with my daughters

and having them play any type of sport that has an impact to the head. So I'm very aware of that with my daughters and having them play any type of sport that has an impact to the head. They're always wearing masks on the field. It's something that as parents, we can look at and say, hey, although the higher organizations may be trying to circumvent it because of financial reasons, we as parents can take into our own hands the exposure that our own kids have. Yeah, absolutely. But once they hit 18 and someone's waving a paycheck in front of their face, we don't have much of a choice at that point. I love my daughters. Tenley, Peyton, if you ever see this, I love you more than anything. I love you more than life itself. I don't think you're going to be playing professional sports. You're going to be doctors

or lawyers. That's what I'm thinking. But I do love you. And if you get there, I'll delete this video and this audio. But I am the coach for both your teams. And, you know, we're going to probably go the educational route, but I love you guys. Same, man. None of my kids are playing professional sports, man. I can't even get them to go outside. You know what I mean? I don't think anybody's been throwing any money at these guys, at my guys to, uh, to play pro sports, but Hey, listen, you can do it, man. I'm rooting for you. You can be anything you want. I don't see Tenley Duncan anytime soon, but hey, we'll see.

Well, that wraps up the Aaron Hernandez case. We, as always, our thoughts are always with the victim's families. And, you know, our thoughts are with Aaron's family as well. He has a daughter who has to go on without a father. Who knows what their relationship might have been and how she could have benefited having him in her life if he had been whole and healthy and well. It's all very sad all around. Let us know what you think in the comments if you're watching on YouTube.

What do you think about the CTE issue? Was it a major contributing factor? Do you think it's not as big of a deal as it's been made out to be as far as Aaron Hernandez's case is concerned? Let us know what you think. And don't forget to follow us on social media, which is at Crime Weekly Pod on Instagram. And Twitter. And Twitter too. Yep. Don't forget to pre-order your criminal coffee if you haven't already.

Actually, you should be right in the ordering stages when you guys see and hear this. So you should be able to order normally. Thank you so much for being here. And we will start next week with a new case. See you guys later. Be safe. Bye.