Crime Weekly - S2 Ep82: Brittanee Drexel: The Jailhouse Snitch (Part 2)

Episode Date: June 10, 2022

Brittanee Drexel was a seventeen year old girl who loved to have fun, and so when she was offered the opportunity to leave behind the wet and gray Spring weather of her Upstate New York hometown and escape to the sandy beaches and sunshine of South Carolina with her friends, it was no wonder that she took it. But she had done so without the permission of her parents, who were concerned that if Brittanee traveled to a different state without adult supervision, she might encounter danger, or get into trouble. But, the lively teenager had already made up her mind, and she was committed to spending Spring Break away from the stress and worries of her life, which is why she climbed into a car on the evening of April 22nd, 2009, leaving it all in the rearview mirror and driving towards the promise of fun and sun, not knowing that something far darker awaited her down south, because Brittanee Drexel was in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina for just sixty hours before she vanished off a busy road, never to be seen alive again. And what followed would be over a decade of fear, sadness, confusion and frustration from her family and community, before a recent break in the case revealed what had happened to the energetic teenager who had just been looking for a few days of fun.  Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCO.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Did you know using your browser in incognito mode doesn't actually protect your privacy? Take back your privacy with IPVanish VPN. Just one tap and all your data, passwords, communications, browsing history, and more will be instantly protected. IPVanish makes you virtually invisible online. Use IPVanish on all your devices, anytime you go online at home and especially on public Wi-Fi. Get IPVanish now for 70% off a yearly plan with this exclusive offer at IPVanish.com slash audio. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So we are just going to dive right into today's episode because we know you guys love when we have like small talk and chit chat.

We know you guys love that, but we're going to skip it today. But stay tuned till the end of the episode because I do have a couple of things I want to mention to you. But we left off in the last episode with a, you know, a brief discussion about Raymond Moody, who is a convicted level three sex offender who was reported to have been living in the Sunset Lodge, which was a roadside motel in Georgetown, South Carolina, during the time that 17-year-old Brittany Drexel vanished off a busy road in Myrtle Beach. The last time that Brittany's cell phone pinged, it was in the general area of Georgetown and McClellanville, and this area became the focus of several searches during the investigation. But initially, nothing came from this search or from the identification of Raymond Moody as a person of interest in Brittany's disappearance. In December of 2013, skeletal remains were found in Horry County, South Carolina, in a wooded area about 10 miles away from where Brittany was last

seen on Ocean Boulevard in Myrtle Beach. Horry County Police Lieutenant Robert Kegler announced that the remains had been found scattered through the area, leading law enforcement to believe that animals may have been responsible for moving them around, and they had been in that area for several years. The discovery became of interest to those involved with the Brittany Drexel case, especially after the Horry County coroner confirmed that the remains were human. However, media reports in the state suggested that several people had gone missing from that area since 2007, so the bones were sent to a lab for further testing. This past weekend, Brittany Drexel's mother Dawn got a call from law enforcement. A call she feared

could be coming for the past five years. She had said that they had found some skeletal remains and it does, it makes your heart, I mean, to me, it kind of puts a pit in your stomach. You know, could this be it? On Saturday, the remains were found in a wooded area off Tidewater Road in Horry County. According to Horry County Police, they may have been there for years. Now, Horry County Coroner Robert Edge says those remains that were found right near here, right in those woods over there, are going to be sent to Charleston to identify the sex. They've always told me I had to come to terms with her with the possibility that she may be deceased. But as a parent, how do you prepare yourself for that?

The search for Drexel never stopped. But Dawn is aware that another chapter of her daughter's case could be closed if the remains do come back as her daughter's. It's not closure, it's a resolution. I don't think you could ever get closure, especially when, you know, you have a loss of your child. Nearly five years later and a mother's pain doesn't go away. And Dawn says it never will. And for now, there's just one more thing this mom wants to hear. For her saying, mom, I love you. Yeah, that's a, that's a tough one. You know, we've talked about this before where some of these families go years, 10, 20, 30 years and never get closure. I know I've worked with parents personally. We have a few of them where they might, they might never get that resolution. So I always wonder how I would be if I was in that situation. Would I be relieved to know that my loved one has been found, maybe even though they're not still alive or would it or would I be more, would I'd rather think that they could still be out there somewhere? I don't know. I don't know how I would feel.

Yeah, I guess it's the difference between having hope still, but having no closure and no answers, which do you prefer? And I mean, most of the time you don't really get a choice in that, right? Right. And they're both terrible outcomes. And I like how she said it. And sometimes I have to correct myself. It's not closure. It is more of a resolution where you have some type of ending to what you've been going through. It's never going to make you feel complete or satisfied with the outcome. But just to have a little bit more knowledge. Question for you.

You may not know the answer to this. As we were watching that clip, there was a short video of Brittany, but it appeared that she was in some type of hotel or motel. Is that the video that that gentleman had taken and given to police? Because it looked like it could be. Yes, that's the video that was taken that Friday night when she was on the beach and people were harassing her and she kind of went off with that guy and she said, you know, take me back to my hotel room. He took that video. That was a little clip from that video. Yeah. Okay, good. Because I wanted to ask you about that because I thought I missed an opportunity when you brought it up last week. I was there, but I didn't jump right on it. And then by the time I started thinking about it, it was kind of too late in

the story to go back to. I felt like it would take us off track, but I wanted to ask you about this individual because you haven't said this person's name or anything, but thinking about it after we recorded and I was like, actually, that doesn't sit that right with me because, okay, she's out on the beach. She's being harassed by these individuals. I'm assuming it was more like cat calls, things like that, whatever it might be. And she was uncomfortable. So she sees this gentleman that she does not know and says, hey, will you pretend you're with me or whatever? So they think that I'm taken and spoken for and we'll stop. This person agrees. She brings him back to the hotel with her or was it a motel or hotel? I want to make sure I'm saying that right. Yeah, it was like a motel, you know, a touristy sort of motel.

Okay. Motel. So they go back together and Brittany does not know this gentleman before this incident. And yet she, um, I'm assuming it allows him to come back into the room with her, which to be fair, you know, that that's, that could be dangerous, right? That can be dangerous. You don't know this gentleman. He, he could have just been in the right place at the right time, but also not been a good guy. And I, I think about myself and, and, you know, if she just met the stranger, she's bringing him back to her room, but then he's not taking like a selfie with her or anything, but he's like recording her with his phone, like interviewing her almost like got the phone facing her and not him

while she's sitting on the bed, which it triggered it for me when I just saw that video. Am I looking too deep into this? I mean, no. Obviously, that wasn't safe. I think about when I was that age and even older, I did stuff like that all the time. It makes now me paranoid as I am. I think about the stuff I did. I mean, I remember I went to a college party once with a friend. It was alumni weekend. He was off. I kind of like went off with another guy. He didn't even know I just met him. He like brought me back to his apartment. He like gave me a shirt to change into. I fell asleep on his couch. What a bad decision. What a bad decision to make. But you're thinking like, oh, he's my age. You know, he goes

to school here. What's the worst that could happen? That's what you're thinking then. That is not what I'm thinking now. So when you're young like that, you don't really you don't see that danger. You don't see that danger. And I don't think she ever saw that danger while she was there that weekend with anybody. She just thought these are new friends to make and this is a fun time to have. And everybody's out here trying to have fun like I am. What's the worst that could happen? Yeah. And I mean, I'm not even like saying, oh, Brittany, what were you thinking? It's more so like if this guy's a good guy, why is he like recording a video of a woman he just met while they're sitting like, you know, he knows why she asked him to come back. They're obviously hanging

out for a few minutes. And his move when he gets back to the hotel is, let me pull out my cell phone and start recording this girl. Like not even with me in it where we're doing like a funny video or something. It's like, hey, so what are you doing? And he's like sitting behind the camera facing it at her. I don't know. I just for his behavior, it feels a little odd to me now.

I don't know if he's going to come back and be involved or whatever, but I remember you saying that he had a video of Brittany that he turned over to the police. So that's awesome that he did that. Obviously it helped narrow down the timeline, but I do ask myself, like, why were you taking a video of her in the first place? Like, how did that come about where you decided after meeting this girl, maybe an hour before you're going to start recording a video of her. Well, what it looks like from that clip, she's just sitting on her phone texting someone, presumably her mom or her boyfriend, and you're taking a video of her. It just felt a little off to me. Not saying this guy's a bad guy or anything, but it just felt a little weird to me. I don't think I'd be doing that. Well, to be fair, we don't know what was in the entire video,

and they never did release his identity. The audio or anything? Yeah. There was videos of the two of them together. He could have taken a selfie like video with them, but they wouldn't have released that because they didn't release his identity. And it was it was 2009. Right. Am I right on that? That date, 20 to 2009 when this happened. So the whole having the ability to take videos on your cell phone was like fairly new around this time like very new so it could have just been like you know like oh i can take a video on my cell phone purely could be innocent i just wanted to bring it up because when we got done i was

sitting there like editing like approving all our recordings i was like i kind of missed that one where she's like this guy just happened to have video of, of Brittany on his phone. And he had only met her like, and I was like, maybe I missed one there. So I was like, I'll bring it up next episode. And then that clip played and I'm like, there's another clip of this guy taking video of her. I don't know. It was just, just a little weird to me because the first episode, it looked like she was out on like a balcony. This looks like the interior sitting on the bed. So it was clearly a decent amount of video. She's in two different locations in that room. So just gets my wheels spinning. I just wanted to bring it up. Maybe, maybe it's a nothing burger, but you know, bring it up. Yeah. I think they were hanging out for a couple hours together that night. So,

and I'm sure you're not the only one who thought that. I mean, at this point now, especially people watching our videos, their brains aren't like tuned to true crime. They're looking for it. They're looking for that stuff. I mean, and it's good. It's good to look for that stuff to be able to explore those avenues, which I'm sure the police did explore. But yeah, I can see how that would be sketchy to you. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. And I wanted to thank everybody who corrected my pronunciation of that county, Horry County, which I was calling it Horry County because it's got an H, but it's a silent H. And like, yeah, to be honest, it didn't feel right calling it Horry

County, you know, but that's how it was spelled. So thank you guys so much. I will never make that mistake again. But, you know, what we're finding here is, you know, Dawn Drexel, we see her in that clip with these remains being found in South Carolina. By this time, Dawn Drexel had moved from Rochester, New York to Myrtle Beach so that she could be an active participant in the constant search for her daughter. And I believe Brittany's sister, Marissa, also moved there with her. And the remains that they found, they turned out to not be those of Brittany Drexel. They belonged to a man who was over the age of 20. I looked to see if they ever identified this person. I'm sure they did, but they never reported that they did. So it was kind of like as soon as they found out it wasn't Brittany, they just stopped talking about those remains, which kind of makes me sad because I kind of wanted to know, like, what was the story with that? Like, did this person get found? Did he get returned to his family? Did he have a name? But not that I could find. And, you know, although no one wanted to hear that Brittany was gone, obviously, this was a dead end still.

And this new dead end was discouraging. Myrtle Beach Police Captain David Nipes said, quote, in my 27 years here, we haven't had a case like this before or since. We don't typically have people who go missing unexplained. Someone knows exactly what happened to Brittany, and we need that person to step forward, end quote. The Drexel family praised the Myrtle Beach Police Department, who had continued to conduct searches as the years went by and who were contacting the family sometimes twice a week with updates. But Brittany's parents still felt that there were others who were not doing as much as they could, with Chad Drexel saying, quote, Why haven't the parents of the children who went down with Brittany ever contacted me or Dawn? point, it's almost five years later, there's really no leads. There's nothing to say what happened to Brittany.

The family would be suspicious of the people that Brittany had been with in Myrtle Beach that weekend. I would have been. I mean, hell, I was suspicious. Everyone around this area was feeling that things didn't exactly add up and that the kids that Brittany went down with, not really kids, a lot of them were adults, they had to know something. We all kind of felt like maybe they weren't directly involved, but they probably knew something that they were too scared to disclose. And with this new information that's recently come out, it kind of turns out that, no, they weren't involved at all. As far as we know, there's

always a possibility, but they weren't involved. They didn't know anything. And I really do wonder, you know, how it felt to sort of live under that shadow and that cloud of suspicion for so many years. Because even if there's no evidence, even if the police aren't calling you a person of interest, there were a lot of allegations being thrown around. There was stuff going on on the internet, and these young people did have a heavy amount of suspicion aimed at them. Yeah, I'm with you. It must be difficult, but to be fair, based on the circumstances, just as you read them to me in episode one, it makes a lot of sense to start with them. We basically broke it down for me, it was to two groups. We had the group that she went down to Myrtle Beach with, and then we had the group that she met up with while she was

there. And so you have a lot of people there that could potentially be involved. It could be very minimal where there was some theories that maybe they just set her up, or it could be as involved as one of these individuals did something directly to her that caused her death, whether it was malicious intent or an accident. They need to be vetted thoroughly because the best person that could maybe lead to what happened to her would be the last person to be seen with her. And that's also an opportunity to close that gap, that timeline of when something could have occurred. So it's only natural for investigators to focus their efforts on individuals that were with her literally 10 minutes before she goes off

the path. So they're going to start with her. They're going to start with those individuals. And then they're obviously going to revert back to the individual she came down with, because is it possible that as she walked down the street back to her hotel, the group that she was originally with intersected with her and they decided to hop in a car and go somewhere? Of course it is. That's commonsensical. So you start there. You want to vet all of those theories thoroughly, and then you can expand the scope of your search. So I understand both sides of it. It's a necessary evil for investigators. It's a natural reaction for parents and loved ones of the victim. But it's also very difficult for the individuals who are being labeled persons of interest. You hit on this last week with Peter, right? Peter was his name? Yeah, Peter. First name there, pop the collar guy. You know, he, like you said, and I think it was a great point. Like I say person of interest and it doesn't really bother me too much.

But for someone who is a young kid, not exposed to this, being labeled anything in a disappearance of a human being, very scary, very traumatic because you don't know where it's going to lead. And I'm sure they could see how it looked, especially with them checking out of their hotels at 1 a.m. in the morning, which is to me, not normal. So there must have been an explanation for that, that they gave police. So as you're saying, it may not lead down to them, but I can see both sides of it. Very, very scary, very traumatic for the people being labeled persons of interest, but also something that needs to be done from an investigative perspective.

Yeah, but I do feel, and this is hard because what we do obviously is we kind of do discuss these kinds of public theories sometimes, but I do think once the police have said like, okay, this person's been cleared, we're not looking at them, we're exploring other sorts of possibilities, the public really should kind of like back off a little bit, you know, and not. Yeah, good luck with that. I know it's like trying, it's trying to control like a natural disaster at that point. It's impossible. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. So in January of 2016, FBI special agent in Charge in South Carolina, David Thomas, held a press conference where he announced that although there had been no arrests made and although Brittany's body had not been located, the FBI and local law enforcement were now sure that Brittany Drexel was no longer alive. Thomas claimed that they had known for some time that she was dead and suggested that law enforcement had talked to one or more people who had confirmed

their worst fears. What we've come to discover through the course of the investigation now is that Brittany Drexel did leave the Myrtle Beach area. we believe she traveled to this area around McClellanville and the North Charleston, South Georgetown area. And we believe she was killed after that. We're here today seeking the help from the public, from you, the media, and helping us get the word out about that. We know this is a great community. We know there's great people here. We know there's people that saw something, heard something that has information that could lead us to closing out this investigation and bringing so far, but there's still information that we need. I've been authorized by the director of the FBI to offer a $25,000 reward leading to the arrest and the conviction of those responsible for killing Brittany Drexel. After seven long years of waiting and praying for the return of my daughter, We know she isn't coming home alive. Brittany's

life was stolen from her in a brutal and senseless fashion. I need your help in bringing the people responsible for her death to justice. They needed to be held accountable for taking the life of our precious young daughter. She had her whole life ahead of her. She had a lot of dreams and aspirations. They could have done this to anyone's child, but they did it to mine. So I am here now asking for your help.

I know there's a mother, father, sister, brother, son or daughter in the north Charleston County and south Georgetown County areas that has information that will help solve the murder of my daughter Brittany. Please help us to bring these killers to justice. Help us to put them in prison where they belong for the rest of their useless lives. They will never again take one of our children away in such a brutal fashion. We need your help so we can find Brittany's remains and bring her home to lay her to rest. And make sure that monsters like this can no longer victimize this community or kill anyone else's child. We need your help. We need everyone's help

to bring something from her home to us. We need your help. We need someone to help us seven years please help we just want britney to know that we love her so much and that we will get her justice so that was britney's mother dawn and her father chad at the end of that clip there obviously begging the public for information that would lead them to their daughter and allow them to bring her home to bury her. Yeah, that's a tough clip. I wonder, I know that they were very cryptic and they didn't say too much, understandably so, but they must have said something or given information to Brittany's parents to make them believe that she was in fact dead. I wonder what that information was. It had to be more than just, we believe she is because we haven't found her yet. But clearly they were very selective in what

they said and what they didn't say to the public. Because again, they're looking for this individual. They may have, as we refer to it in the past as guilt knowledge that may connect them to the crime. So they have to be careful what they put out there, but there had to be something substantive to suggest, okay, we have an indication, a clear indication that she's deceased. Not only the fact that there's no trace of her anywhere, it has to be more than that because she could be kidnapped and still be alive. So I wonder what that information or what that piece of evidence was where they were thoroughly convinced enough to tell the parents of this victim that they could stop

hoping that she was still alive. She was gone. That's a tough conversation to have. And as a law enforcement agent, you better be right. Okay. So I'm so glad that you said that because I was going to ask you, listening to that press conference, they obviously didn't give specifics, right? But they seem to definitely have something, right? And I remember watching that press conference and thinking like, the police have to have something. They're just not sharing yet because they seem very confident, not only about the fact that Brittany's no longer alive, but they seem to have some idea of what had happened to her. And if they didn't have a body,

they'd have to have something concrete, like you're saying, such as like an eyewitness or someone who had given them information that had checked out. And it's funny that you said that as a law enforcement official, if you are going to go with this, if you're going to make this announcement, if you're going to tell the parents who clearly you can see in this clip, they've been told something that makes them very certain of what happened to her. And they're almost specifically like these monsters. You know, it's almost as if they know who might have done it. And, you know, I don't want to say too much because it's all, an inmate at the McCormick Correctional Institution in South Carolina. At the time of this press conference, Brown was serving 25 years in prison for an unrelated manslaughter conviction. But he'd told the police that before he'd gone to prison, he had seen Brittany Drexel on four separate occasions over the course of one month in 2009, the year she went missing.

Taquan Brown was from Walterboro, South Carolina, and he told law enforcement that he'd gone to what he'd called a stash house in McClellanville on Monday, April 27th, just a few days after Brittany had gone missing. Brown claimed that he had entered the stash house and he saw 16-year-old Timothy Deshaun Taylor raping Brittany Drexel along with 8 to 12 other men who were taking turns sexually assaulting her. Brown said that he didn't immediately know who this girl was and it wasn't until a few days later when he saw a story about her disappearance on the news that he put two and two together. Now, a few days after this initial time of seeing her, Brown claimed he returned to the Stash House and he saw Brittany there again.

He was there to give Timothy Deshaun Taylor's father, who's also named Timothy Taylor, some money. Now, if you remember from part one of this series, 37-year-old Timothy Sean Taylor had been arrested in July of 2010 after being accused of taking part in the attempted kidnapping of a young woman in Myrtle Beach that same month. And Timothy Sean Taylor's brother, Randall Keith Taylor, had also been charged with the kidnapping and murder of another young woman from 1998, although those charges were dismissed later due to lack of evidence. And now we have a jailhouse informant claiming that another missing young woman had been seen in a house where both

Timothy Sean Taylor and his 16-year-old son, Timothy Deshaun Taylor, were seen, and the younger Taylor was being accused of kidnapping Brittany and taking part in the sexual assault of her. Now, Taquan Brown said when he returned to the stash house the second time, he witnessed Brittany Drexel attempting to escape from her captors. He was out in the yard conversing with the older Taylor man when Brittany ran outside, and she was pursued by four men who hit her on the head with a gun and dragged her back inside. At that point, Taquan Brown claimed he heard gunshots from inside the house and he assumed that Brittany had been shot and killed. He said he was getting

in his car to leave and he saw two men walk outside the house carrying a rolled up rug that they put in the back of a truck before driving away. The working theory was that Brittany had been held against her will for several days, she'd been murdered, and then her body had been dumped into an alligator pit, with FBI agent Jarek Munoz claiming that Taquan Brown had not been present for the disposal of the body, but, quote, several witnesses have told us Ms. Drexel's body was placed in a pit, a gator pit, to have her body disposed of, eaten by gators, end quote. Munoz also claimed that there were several ponds and pits like this in the area, and officials had already searched several of them but found nothing. Law enforcement claimed that they had confirmation of Brown's

allegations from a second inmate, and this inmate claimed that he had gotten secondhand information from Timothy Deshaun Taylor. And apparently the inmate had heard from Taylor that Taylor had taken Brittany from Myrtle Beach to McClellanville, where he lived, and he proceeded to show Brittany off. He introduced her to some of his friends. The informant said, quote, they ended up tricking her out with some of their friends, offering her to them and getting a human trafficking situation, end quote. But when Brittany's disappearance started getting a lot of publicity and McClellanville became a focus of the investigation due to Brittany's cell phone data, she was killed and dumped in a gator pit. Now, Taquan Brown's story will be elaborated on a few years later, and we're going to get there. But

so far, what do you think about all this? I just said a lot of things. Well, it sounds pretty convincing. I have to be completely transparent. The fact that this sounds like what happened to her, but you're telling me it's basically the beginning of part two, just because I've been doing this so long with you. It can't be this straightforward, but maybe there's more to it. Initially, it sounds valid. I'd have to know what the incentive for, I'm going to screw these names up. I know it because they're so close. Tayshaun Brown, what his reasoning for- Taequann. I'm sorry, Taequann Brown. See, told you. First shot, already screwed it up.

Taequann Brown came forward with all this information. There's a lot of specifics in there. It aligns with the GPS data that they have, the pinging of her phone. It also aligns with the fact that they haven't found her body. But as I'm picking it apart in my head as you're talking, yes, they're getting corroborating stories from different individuals, allegedly, that might've been there or not. But my thing would be, okay, so Mr. Brown says he goes to this stash house, which for anybody who doesn't know what a stash house is, there may be a few of you out there. You can stash a couple of things. It could be prostitution. It could be, usually it's drugs where you're stashing the product that you don't want found. And in my experience, we usually had a money house and a

stash house. So the stash house was where the drugs were. So the transactions would take place in the stash house. The money from the said drug transactions would be kept in a separate house, which is the money house. Why do you do that? Well, if we raid the house, anything that's found in that house where the drugs are, money specifically, that becomes a legal seizure. If the money's in a separate home, it's police's responsibility to link this money house in order to seize that money. And it's a lot harder to do. You basically have to have individuals from the stash house going to the money house to

create the narrative for a judge so that you can seize not only the drugs, but the money, the cars, the assets as well. That's why you have two different houses. But back to get on the story, if Mr. Brown went to the stash house, I'm assuming he could tell them where it was. And I would think they would get a search warrant for that stash house. And if what was taking place, like Mr. Brown described it, was actually happening, where she was being pimped out essentially to have sex with all of these individuals, her DNA would be everywhere as well as a lot of other DNA, but there would definitely be remnants of her DNA. And so I would be at that stash house immediately swabbing the entire place, looking for traces

of DNA that can be analyzed and then compared to maybe some familial DNA of her family members. I don't know if that was done, if it wasn't done. If that was done and it came back where there was a match, I could see why they were so confident about this information. If that wasn't done, I still will give them credit. These details are pretty graphic and pretty specific, and it does seem to align with what might have happened to her because they have no trace of her. So I'm cautiously optimistic at this point. That's where I'll leave it. Yeah. I don't want to get too far ahead. So let's talk about Timothy Deshaun Taylor first, the man who was accused of being responsible for abducting Brittany for the

purposes of human trafficking, and the man that Taequann Brown claims he saw raping Britney. Now, at this point, Taylor had not been charged in relation to anything in connection with Britney Drexel, but he was hauled into a federal court for a 2011 robbery that he had already confessed to being the getaway driver for. Now, this is kind of sketchy because Taylor had been found guilty in a state court for his role in a robbery of a Mount Pleasant McDonald's where a restaurant employee had been shot twice. And Taylor had cooperated with the authorities and they gave information on the other individuals

who he had committed the crime with. And he'd been sentenced to 18 months of probation. But then, in August of 2016, federal prosecutors convinced a grand jury to indict Taylor on that same crime, stating that they felt he had gotten off too easily. And this was a highly unusual move, since federal authorities typically don't prosecute a case that's already been adjudicated in another court. Taylor's attorney called it a squeeze job, basically an attempt to force Taylor to confess to his involvement in what had happened to Brittany Drexel or to get him to give information that would lead to her body. Through his attorney, Timothy Deshaun Taylor gave a statement saying, quote, I had no involvement with anything to do with Brittany Drexel.

I don't know Taequann Brown and I don't know why he would call my name. I'm being prosecuted again for a crime I already helped them solve and did my time for all because some guy in prison is trying to cut a deal. It's not fair to be charged for the same crime twice. And that's not how our system is supposed to work. End quote. So I see both sides of it. I'm going to try to be objective here. First off, it is very uncommon, but it's also very legal. You can do it. And sometimes when this happens is you will have the state give a very light sentence. And in federal sentencing,

you usually have to serve at least 80% of your sentence. That's the minimum mandatory sentencing. So although very uncommon, it does happen. And I will say in his defense, Deshaun Taylor's defense, he's 100% right, in my opinion, that that's why they were doing it. I don't think they were trying to force him to admit to something he didn't do, but they were indirectly saying, hey, listen, we know that you know more than you're telling us, and we're going to make your life really, really difficult under the eyes of the law. We're going to use whatever means we have at our disposal to make your life difficult. Because if you didn't do it, but you know who did, this is going to get really bad for you. Now, some of you may agree with that. Some of you may not. I'm just telling you what it is. So he's not wrong. They absolutely were looking at that

previous charge and saying, all right, you know what? You're not going to tell us even though we have all this information. Well, maybe we'll just decide to charge you federally as well. It's a robbery. We have the right to do it. And we're going to make sure that you get sentenced in this court as well. And you're not going to get off lightly. And even if you do, you're going to have to do 80% of the time on top of your state sentence unless they convert it. But I will say he's right. They're going off a jailhouse inmate who's possibly trying to cut a deal to save his own ass. And I don't like this guy necessarily if he did the crimes he's being accused of, but he ain't wrong. He's pretty much spot on with what they're doing. Yeah. And I mean, you'd think

for them to do this, the police, the FBI, for them to be like, hey, we know you did this and we know you have information and or, you know, we know you did this or you have information that can tell us who did. And so now we're going to use this old thing against you in order to basically get leverage for you to sort of help us with this new case, you'd think that they'd have to have some pretty compelling evidence to do that, right? I feel like they would. Well, going back to what you just read to me, that whole narrative you gave me, it's so specific. Like where she was taken from, where she was brought, the people that this individual is

implicating have a previous record or a history of doing things like this. It's pinging in, you know, the stash house was probably in the area of where her phone last registered. Clearly it was McClellanville. So all these things are lining up. And then you have the specifics of how she was killed and where she was, her body was disposed.

So I don't know. I wasn't there. I don't know who they corroborated the story. I'm hoping they didn't just take this individual's word and be like, yep, got to be telling the truth. I'm hoping there was other information that they got from different individuals, not just secondhand information, and maybe some actual tangible trace evidence, whether it's, like I said, DNA, something where they said, okay, there's some validity to this because they are, they're really going all in on this.

And they may be going after a guy who had absolutely nothing to do with Britney's disappearance and or death. Yeah. You'd think they'd have to have some kind of physical evidence, like you said, because they did go to that stash house, that alleged stash house, and they did search it and they brought forensics teams in. So you think like, hopefully they got something from that because if they went into that stash house and they found absolutely no evidence that Brittany Drexel was ever there, that would sort of go against their theory that Timothy Deshaun Taylor and his father, Timothy Sean Taylor had been involved with what happened to Brittany Drexel. All right. So first off,

two things. Yes, you're 100% right. So first off, two things. Yes, you're 100% right. If she was in this house for an extended period of time and she was being raped, you would expect to find her DNA in multiple locations. Secondly, I know you so well because as you're saying it, you have a phrase in the way you say things. So you're like, you would think, you would think, and that just tells me everything by the way, because it's, I know you're already leading me down here. That's the, that's the unfortunate thing of me, not knowing anything. I just know you and the way you phrase things tells me everything I need to know. So I just wanted to put that out there because I, I have a feeling I can see where this is going. Yeah. But I mean, like it's still, we don't know right to this day, but I mean, like it's still we don't know right to this day. But I have a feeling I have a feeling it's going to have to come out in maybe some sort of civil lawsuit. But still, to this day, we don't know what evidence they had that made them go so hard for Timothy Deshaun Taylor. We don't know. Besides, you know, this jailhouse informant, Taequann Brown. And then they had another inmate who kind of cooperated

and said he'd heard something secondhand from Deshaun Taylor. So that's not really enough, in my opinion. That's not enough, but we'll get there. I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. I don't know what they had, but they didn't have enough to make an arrest. Because if they did, they would have just made it. They wouldn't know what they had, but they didn't have enough to make an arrest. Because if they did, they would have just made it. They wouldn't have been messing around, trying to charge them in federal court. They clearly did not have enough. Exactly. Because if they thought they were even close, they would have went to a judge with an affidavit and hoped that the judge agreed,

and they didn't even attempt that. So that's one thing I can tell you with certainty. They definitely thought it was this individual. But looking at it on paper, they realized it was hearsay, essentially, and it wouldn't stick. And a judge was never going to sign off on that. to an old case, right? But not for whatever happened to Brittany Drexel, not with anything connected to Brittany. And when Taylor requested bond, the FBI argued in court that bond should be denied because now Taylor was a suspect in Brittany's disappearance and they believed that he was withholding information. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. So Timothy Deshaun Taylor's mother, the Reverend Joan Taylor, she spoke on behalf of her son in court. And she stated that there was no way he had been involved in whatever had happened to Brittany Drexel. She said he had lost an arm in a childhood accident.

And at the time that Brittany went missing, he'd only been 16. He still had a bedtime. He went to church. He went to school. He was a good kid. And she felt the government was trying to unjustly pin something on him because of a bogus jailhouse confession. She called the allegations that her son or his father had any connection to Brittany Drexel craziness. Now, the prosecution offered Taylor a bunch of plea deals if he would cooperate in the Drexel case, but they also said that they would seek the maximum sentence if he didn't cooperate. And Taylor was told that if he took a polygraph test and passed it, they would recommend a lighter sentence, which he did in August of 2016. Now, reportedly, this initial polygraph concluded that Taylor was showing deception throughout, even when he answered

the question, what is your name? And in June of 2017, Taylor was given another polygraph test, during which he became upset and left before the exam was completed. Apparently, he had told law enforcement that he'd never met Brittany Drexel in person, but he had seen her on television. He claimed he had once heard a conversation between two individuals whose names were redacted in court documents, and these two people had been arguing because one of them had been accused of having Brittany's cell phone, and this was an exchange which Taylor had felt was suspicious to him at the time. During the polygraph, when Taylor was asked, do you know for sure who was involved in the disappearance of Brittany Drexel and did you ever see Brittany Drexel in person, he answered no to both of these questions. But

the examiner, Special Agent Rob Walzenhofer of the FBI, concluded that he had been lying. I may as well start with the obvious question. Did you kill Brittany Drexel? No, sir. I did you kill Brittany Drexel? No, sir. I did not kill Brittany Drexel. Were you involved in the kidnapping of Brittany Drexel? No, sir, I was not. Were you with Brittany Drexel the night she was, she disappeared in April of 2009? No, sir. I was not with her. Had you ever met her? What did you know about her? Well, I never met her personally or physically. The only thing I've known is from what I've been seeing on TV and the bulletins

and what the FBI has been telling me so far. So that's the only thing that I personally know about her. And that would have been after the fact? Yes, sir. That would have been after April of 2009. She disappeared after leaving the Blue Water Hotel in Myrtle Beach. Had you spent much time up in Myrtle Beach? Were you familiar with that hotel? Not familiar with the hotel, but I am familiar with the Myrtle Beach area,

not too big of an ointment, but I'm kind of familiar with the Myrtle Beach area, kind of, you know, not too big of an area, but I'm kind of familiar with the area. And had you been up there during that time period where you may have crossed paths with her, where somebody would have, you know, put the two of you together for some reason? No, sir. I wasn't up there at that time. You heard the allegations from this informant, this Taquan Brown. He says that you picked her up in Myrtle Beach and brought her down to McClellanville. First, I guess, respond to that, that statement by him, and I guess as a follow-up question,

what do you know about Taquan Brown? Well, from what he's saying has been the untruth, and so far they're working towards finding out more, but they have found out so far that the story wasn't true. And from hearing it, it's like, how could he just sit there and make such thing up, such a story like that, just incriminate me or to make me have to spend another sentence of my freedom because it's something that someone's telling

them that I'm involved in when I really have no involvement in. What do you know about Taquan Brown? Do you know him? No, sir. You've never met him? Never met him. Never personally met him. I wouldn't say I know I don't know him, but if I did met him, I don't remember him or anything. But physically, I don't know him. Personally, I don't know him. Coming up through my childhood, I don't remember him or anything, but physically I don't know him. Personally, I don't know him. Coming up through my childhood, I don't remember him at all.

He says he saw you in this stash house sexually assaulting Brittany Drexel. Says he heard gunshots. Recounts this whole detailed story. What do you have to say about that story? I mean, at that time of the story, when the story took place, I was a teenager at that time and I was still in school. So when I listen to the story, it's like it's not true because I know it's not true because at that time and the dates and time that he gave it, it shows that I was in school getting my education. So there's not too much that I can say about the story. I just think it's not true.

It's very disorienting. So did you provide authorities with proof that you were in school on the days that he says he saw you in this stash house? Yes, sir. So you've been able to discount this story? Yes, sir. So you've been able to discount this story? Yes, sir. Let me ask you also, while we're on this topic of the Stash House, he mentioned your father, Sean Taylor, was involved.

Are you aware at all of your father having any involvement in this Brittany Drexel case? No, sir. Had you ever heard anything or heard him talk about Brittany Drexel? No, sir. Had you ever heard anything or heard him talk about Brittany Drexel? No, sir. Yeah. Nothing. Have you spoken with the FBI? Did they question you after she disappeared?

Yes, sir. I spoke with them, I think it was the first time was in 2009 or 2010, and then again after they brought this conspiracy charge back up against me that was the first thing that they questioned me about and basically was the only thing that they questioned me about was about the Brittany Drake's film so back in 2009 what was the what was the the sort of direction of the questioning where they just asked you if you knew anything about it were they asking about your father what were they What were they sort of focusing on? They were more focusing on did I know anything

about her? Did I see her? Have I seen her? Was I in the area? Where were I at the time? And did I hear anything or know of anyone who had involvement? And why would they have zeroed in on you so quickly after her disappearance? I wouldn't say it was so quickly and they zeroed in on me, but it was after a matter of time that they came and questioned me, I guess, because they said that they were questioning everybody in the area because her cell phone last pinged off the McClellanville area tower, cell phone tower. So I guess they said that a few people told them to question me, to ask me questions, so I cooperated with them, answered the questions.

So would you say that you've cooperated with them? Yes, very much, all the way from start to now. So the fact that you've cooperated with them, what do you think of the fact that they're now turning around and implicating you in this case? So much of it is more of like it seems to me that they're just trying to find someone to arrest or someone to try and arrest to get the case over or solved and closed. That's what it seems like to me. Does it sound to you as if they're trying to, they think you're hiding something? Do they think that you know more than you're telling them?

Yes, sir. And that's why they brought the second charge up against me for a second time. So what do you do if you don't know anything, and they're using this charge, these charges in federal court, to get you to give them information that you say you don't have what happens um pretty much i have to just keep telling them the same thing giving them the same story of i don't know anything and hopefully one day they let it go either i have to go back and do the time for it all right just to confirm before we break that video or audio down harvey

listen to it um mr tay Taylor, I know he's being interviewed. Before the clip, you had said that special agent, I'm not going to try to say his last name, but Rob had said that Taylor was clearly lying. Who is this individual that's interviewing him? He's just a local reporter. Just a local reporter. Okay. That makes sense. So there's people out there that put a ton of weight into physical verbal cues. I do believe in it. I was trained on it, but I do think that there are outliers and that some people just have a mannerism or a behavior to them. So I don't ever look at a video interview or listen to an audio interview and say, oh, clearly you can see they're lying. But just if you're using the methodology, the tactics, the signals, the signs of people lying,

I'm not seeing it in this video. Mr. Taylor seems like he's answering the questions without really thinking about it. He's making direct eye contact. His body is not bladed. His legs are open. He's exposed to the interviewer. He does, for people who don't have the video, you're only listening on audio, but Stephanie did say it. Mr. Taylor only has one arm. Sometimes you will see that they'll cross their arms if they're guarded. He's not displaying any of the physical indicators of being uncomfortable, having anxiety, or being deceptive or guarded against what he's saying. And as far as what he actually said to the interviewer, it does make sense. The biggest thing I took from the interview was the fact that he's saying, you know, I was young, I was still in school at the time. Well, on one hand, I will

tell you personally that I have worked murder cases where 14, 15 year old kids have shot and killed someone. So that to me doesn't hold any weight at all. But what does hold weight to me is the fact that he's saying he has proof that he was in school during those times. That does mean something, but it also, if I'm just being completely open to the idea here, he could have been in school for six hours and then been going to the stash house after hours. It doesn't mean he was there all day, every day. But I will say, if they're able to at least trace that back and they're able to go back to their informant, Mr. Brown, and say, well, around what time of the day did you see Mr. Taylor in there? Oh, it was during the day, 9, 10 o'clock in the morning to

5 o'clock in the afternoon. It doesn't matter. He was there all the time. Oh, really? You saw him there on these days all day long during the morning hours. Yes, I did. Okay. Let's go back to the school. Let's see if he was marked as absent or present. Do they have cameras there? All these different things that you can do to confirm or discredit the alibi that Mr. Taylor was at school. Extremely important information because, as we all know, can't physically be in two places at once. So either Mr. Taylor and the school are lying or this informant is lying. I would tend to lean towards the informant who has an incentive to be cooperative, quotation marks here, so that he can get a lesser sentence.

So that's where I am after that interview. Very compelling, good interview to find because it really does give you some insight from Mr. Taylor's perspective. Yeah. And when the interviewer asked, you know, can you prove you are at school? You could see Timothy Deshaun Taylor kind of look over to his left and he verifies this with somebody that's his lawyer. So if it's his lawyer saying to him, like, yes, we do have that. Right. I would assume they already supplied that alibi, that evidence to the police. And and they're still kind of law enforcement still kind of traveling down this path of, you know, Timothy Deshaun Taylor knows something. And it could be, it could be still at this point that officers believe based on

information they've received that Mr. Taylor was there after hours, right? Nine, 10 o'clock at night, pretty close to where he lives, where he goes to school so he could easily get over there. So they may be saying, hey, listen, you might not be the main person. You're a young kid, but you were present in that house and you know what was going on and you know the other individuals that were there. Police officers could have been going into this saying, listen, we don't think Taylor's the guy, but we think he knows the guy and we have something on him and he's been identified. So we're going to squeeze him to get to the guy. Yeah. And a take on Brown had told the police that there was over a dozen other guys there, right? So at this point,

he may have only allegedly been able to identify Timothy Deshaun Taylor. So he could have been like, well, I know Timothy Taylor, but I don't know any of those other guys there. So now maybe police are trying to put pressure on Taylor to give up the names of the other guys. But Taylor's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. This never happened. I wasn't even there. There are no other guys. I have nothing to give you. And you can kind of see his frustration in this interview where at the end, the interviewer is like, well, what do you do now? You know, you can't tell them anything. And he's like, well, I just keep telling them the same thing and like that's right that it gets through eventually because there's I have nothing

to offer. And I do think that this is a little unnerving because we see sometimes in law enforcement when you have a suspect or you have a person of interest and they keep putting pressure on you, sometimes that person off his case and get them on somebody else simply to be left alone. And this is when you have an investigation, a spiral out of control, and you're literally chasing your tail. So there is a danger with that happening. And I think that there was a big danger with that happening here. Luckily, Timothy Deshaun Taylor sort of stuck to his guns and he kept saying, like, no, I don't know anything. I wasn't there. This never happened. Yeah. I think it's a great point that you brought up. When you're the police officer and you're trying to get information out of a potential co-conspirator or a witness or someone who's just using the code where they don't want to talk to police, you do have to push them. Usually they're not willing to give it up on the first

try. You got to really put pressure on them before they crack. They don't want to be a snitch, but there is this invisible line of how far do you go? Because you want to push them far enough so that you get the information that they have if they have it. But like you just said, you don't want to push them so far that maybe they don't even give a false confession, but they just start telling you what you want to hear and start sending you down wild goose chases involving individuals that don't exist. Because now you've pushed them so far that they're going to be quote unquote cooperative, but they're having you explore options that aren't even valid. And then there's the other side of it, right? Where if you're Brittany's family or the family of anyone who's lost a loved one. And you would want, I know I would want,

police to push the individual that's been linked to my son or daughter's disappearance if there's this information out there. So as family members of the victim, you want police to be aggressive. But again, fine line between doing it the right way, being aggressive, doing what's within the confines of the law to get the information you need, Mr. Taylor stuck to his guns and nothing really came of this because he was consistent with his stories every time to the police. Yeah. And, you know, I do want to get back to the polygraph test, too, in a second. But I also want to mention that, like you as a police officer, as somebody who was a detective and had to do this with people, you also have to look at Timothy Deshaun Taylor's history. He wasn't somebody who was adverse to cooperating with the police. He had been involved in a 2011 burglary where he turned against the people that he was with. He told the police who they were. He testified against them. And then he received 18 months of probation because he was just the getaway driver. So he doesn't have a history of kind of like, oh, I don't want to be a snitch. He's done it before. So wouldn't you think that in this case, if there was something there to give, he would do it again? I do. But just to

play devil's advocate, I think I'm just trying to get into the mind of the police department. I personally think that they believe, yes, he's been cooperative in the past, but the reason he may not be being cooperative here is because his dad was the offender. Okay. Different incentive to lie. So I'm not saying that's what happened, but I think they're thinking his dad was involved. And that's because the jailhouse informant told them that. Yeah.

So is he going to snitch on his dad? Is he going to be less willing to cooperate when it's his father? I think most people would say yes. So I think that's maybe where the police, where their minds were, not saying it's his father? I think most people would say yes. So I think that's maybe where the police, where their minds were not saying it's right, but that's where they were coming from going. He ain't going to crack because he doesn't want to die him out his dad. So we're really going to have to push him to the point where he could be doing more years in jail for his dad. And let's see how much he's really willing to, you know,

to go down for him. Yeah. And going back to the polygraph tests, right? And we've talked about this before. And I've said, I absolutely think they're garbage. I never want to hear about them. We mentioned them in cases because it's part of it. And some people do put a lot of weight into these lie detector tests, but they're really usually not admissible in court for a reason. It's because they're not super reliable. And when you look at somebody like Timothy Deshaun Taylor, he doesn't seem to be super verbal. He doesn't seem to be somebody who's comfortable expressing himself through words. He seems even kind of nervous, a little stiff when he's talking to the reporter. You can tell he's been prepped by his lawyer of what he should say, what he

shouldn't say and and sitting you know attached to a machine with all of these like cords coming off of you and talking to an fbi agent this kid's gonna be real nervous right he's gonna be real nervous and he's gonna answer to the best of his abilities but it's still coming back that he's lying and we see this a lot where people say oh it showed deception but sometimes that's just an increased heart during the answering of certain questions. It's not perfect. We've talked about lie detector tests ad nauseum. It can affect different people differently. And some people, like you said, the minute you put their finger in the machine, put the strap around their chest, they instantly get a level of anxiety. And I think the fact that

you might've said he was even lying when, or it showed signs of deception when he was even answering questions like what's his name. And that's your control question. Obviously he's not lying about his name. So if he's showing signs of deception on questions that you know, he, for a fact, he's not lying. It's going to be very hard to use that test in any capacity where it's actually viewed as, as something that's valid. And you would agree that we sometimes see law enforcement use polygraphs as interrogation tools. So it's very rare for us as the public to ever really see like the actual results of the polygraph. We just usually have like an FBI agent being like, yep, he showed deception on that question. And dude could just be making that up.

He could just be lying and saying he showed deception in order to once again make Timothy Deshaun Taylor nervous. Oh, they know. They know I'm lying. I might as well just come clean. And, you know, I don't I don't really like it. I understand why it's used in certain situations. But once again, I will say with this specific scenario, I just don't think they had enough to like pursue him as hard as they did. But you heard the Myrtle Beach police captain, David Nipes, he's like, we don't have cases like this. We don't understand. This is frustrating. There's nothing. There's nothing. We can't follow any leads. We don't have any leads. What's happening here? Everyone was frustrated and they may have wanted a resolution to this

case to the extent where they were sort of like making it happen, willing it into existence, even if they didn't know that that's what they were doing. This was the one strong lead they thought they had and they were going to follow it till the wheels fell off. Yeah. All I'll say is, because I don't want to be a hypocrite, not that anybody could confirm this unless you've been in an interrogation room with me, which there's been hundreds. But I've definitely done that just to be completely transparent. It's a form, it's called trickery. It's completely legal. And there's definitely been times where I've said, yeah, you came back, you were lying, or that's not what your buddy told me. And in most cases, they still stick to their story. But there have been cases where I say, you know what? The test came back. You are

lying. And it's not a matter of if you're lying or not. We've already confirmed that. I just want to know why. And it's a way of doing it where they feel like, yep, he's got me. And then all of a sudden they're admitting to what they did, not knowing that I have nothing. So I will say I've done it. There's a balance there. Most guilty parties won't just roll over and tell you, you got to really pull it out of them. It's a chess match in that room. And some of you at home may not agree with it. I'm not going to debate you on it. I just wanted to be transparent and say that I definitely utilize that tactic to get people to confess to something. I've never had a situation, knock on wood, where I've gotten a confession out of someone and down the road, it turned out that they didn't do it.

Thank God. But I've definitely done it. It's something that you're trained to do. Some may agree with it. Some may not. I just, I want to be transparent. But that's why it is imperative to have a lawyer when you're going into this situation because the lawyer is going to tell you like, Hey, listen, the police are legally allowed to lie to you. You know, the police can mislead you. So you kind of know,

and you're not like just a kid sitting there having no idea, being terrified and being like, they have something. Well, they have something Like maybe I did do something. And then you start filling in the blanks for yourself. And we've seen this be effective, right? In the Chris Watts case, that's basically what happened with Chris Watts. They knew it was him, right? We all knew. I mean, you had a pulse and eyes and ears. You knew it was Chris Watts just from his interviews with the media, but the police knew it was him. They just needed to get that physical evidence. And so they gave him a polygraph so that he would lead them to that physical evidence, which they could then use in court against him.

And that's very effective in that way. But always get a lawyer. Always get a lawyer. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. You want to get a lawyer, whether you're innocent or guilty. If the police officers are doing the right thing, they can still question you in the presence of an attorney. So it's just a matter, you know, you have a right to have someone present before

you're giving your Miranda rights and then you have the right to have an attorney present during any questioning. It doesn't stop them from questioning you. So yeah, I have no problem with it. If the cops are doing the right thing, it shouldn't be an issue. And if the cops have enough, whether you decide to talk or not, it's not going to matter. They're just, you know, you're going to disagree and not speak to them. And they're going to say, okay, no problem. You're under arrest based on what we have and we'll deal with it in trial. If they don't, they're going to let you go and they got to go build a stronger case. Or they'll just find something you did in your past and recharge you with it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm trying to be objective here. I, they clearly thought that he was involved and some of you may agree with it. Some of you may not. And I have a feeling it's going to turn out based on just how well I know you, that he was not involved. Um, because I can see where we're talking here. It's I'd be an idiot not to put two and two together based on your verbal cues and your physical cues. Right. But you know, it's one of those things where it didn't work out here. They

definitely pressured him. But I'm hoping that you don't tell me he ended up being charged with something and serving time for something he didn't do. You did mention very quickly about a civil suit. So I'm interested to see how that goes. But again, fine line, you're trying to get the guilty parties, but also you never want to see an innocent man or woman go to prison for a crime they didn't commit. It's a fear of any good police officer. So not defending it, but I do know it does occur. And it's not just Mr. Taylor that it occurred to. But absolutely, with our audience, some are going to agree with it.

Some may not. And I think both parties are right. Yeah. And I mean, obviously, with cases like this, I think that law enforcement does get very close to it. They take it personal. They want to see it solved. And that doesn't mean they're bad people. It means they got a little too close and maybe they got some tunnel vision and that's human. But you have to be human enough to recognize when that's happening. So we will hope that everything turns out all right with that. I'm sure we are going to talk about it more. But Timothy Deshaun Taylor and his lawyers,

they also appeared on the Dr. Phil show. And Taylor said that he had never been to the Blue Water Hotel and Resort in Myrtle Beach. And that was where Peter and his crew were staying. He said he'd been 16 years old without a driver's license when this happened. So he wouldn't have been able to drive anyone from Myrtle Beach to McClellanville. He said he was not in Myrtle Beach on the evening of April 25, 2009, and he knew this because his cousin had been having a block party that night and he was there. He said he'd never been involved in anything like human trafficking and he'd never heard of bodies being disposed in gator pits. He'd never had possession of Britney's cell phone and he wasn't even with his father at the time

that it supposedly happened. Taylor said, quote, I was in school on the days when it took place, when he said it happened. If I'm sitting in my classroom getting my education, how could I know anything or see anything? End quote. Taylor's attorney, Mark Pepper, went on to explain, quote, I think after seven years of not having any answers, the only certainty that the federal government has is that a cell phone registered to Brittany Drexel last pinged in the McClellanville area. Now, why it involves Deshaun is because Deshaun was one of the eight individuals that this jailhouse rat decided to specifically name in this made-up concocted story

because a guy who was eight months into his 25-year sentence all of a sudden said, actually, I've got something to say. Now, they didn't go validate any of this information. They didn't even go ask Deshaun if any of it was true. What they did was have him arrested on a charge that he's already pled guilty to and sentenced to and served his time and then brought him in, never mentioned the word McDonald's, and only mentioned the word Drexel. Obviously, as any parent would, Timothy Deshaun Taylor's mother was vocal that she didn't believe one scrap of what this jailhouse informant, Taquan Brown, had said, and she spoke to many media outlets to make sure that everyone knew it, which seemed to greatly upset Britney's father,

Chad Drexel, because he did appear to be completely bought into the theory that Taylor was responsible for his daughter's torture and murder. Now, the following statement is lengthy. It was posted on his Facebook page, and it includes a lot of capitalized words for emphasis, so I will try to read it as it was written. Chad Drexel posted on his Facebook page, quote, I would like to set the record straight with a strong reply to Joan Taylor's comments to the Post Courier in South Carolina this past Friday. Based on evidence the FBI and the Myrtle Beach Police Department has gathered, along with facts and specific information gathered from a team of private investigators that I hired to work with local law enforcement actively during the case, which will soon come to light, we have no doubt Timothy Deshaun Taylor played a significant role in the abduction and murder of my daughter.

Of course the mother of Timothy Deshaun Taylor is going to defend her son. As a father, I can understand a need to defend your children. What I don't understand is defending your children when you must know the truth. Her assumptions and words stated have been verified incorrect and couldn't be further from the truth. We know Timothy Deshaun Taylor was witnessed by others, witnesses not in jail, with my daughter. We are just praying that they do the right thing and step forward with what they know. Additionally, he has been seen and followed to the exact area where my daughter's

DNA was found. Joan Taylor claimed that the FBI and government are falsely accusing her son because of witnesses in jail. Well, we have other specific evidence that I cannot disclose at this time for the safety of my daughter's case, which corroborates those testimonies. Timothy Deshaun Taylor is known to be involved in dogfighting, bringing drugs to parties, raping women, mostly Caucasian young women. He either picks up unwillingly or friends of friends that end up being drugged and taken there. This is only the beginning. There is a ton more evidence and horrible info we would like the public in that area to be aware of for their safety, but we are unable to disclose at this time. Without a doubt, Timothy Deshaun Taylor is a suspect in my daughter's disappearance and

murder. My family and I will be following the FBI's request to keep specific details in my daughter's case under wrap until this horrible piece of trash goes to prison for life. After the guilty verdict, we will be happy to dispel these fairy tales that are being spun by Timothy's family. It is disgraceful the way this family and their friends are supporting and claiming innocence of a proven felon without even looking at the evidence presented and the facts surrounding the case. Also adding this piece of trash's photo so everyone can see who he is, end quote. Yeah, so there's that statement. Now, I don't know, he's talking about DNA in the statement, and I did search everywhere. He could have been hearing things

from the police that they never, ever, ever reported out loud. But as far as I can tell, in court testimony where they were saying that Timothy Deshaun Taylor should be kept and he shouldn't get bail because he was a suspect in Brittany Drexel's case, they didn't reveal that. As far as I could tell, there was never any indication that Brittany's DNA was found anywhere. So I'm not sure what he heard or what information he had or what the police were telling him. But it seems to me at this point, maybe the

family was getting other information from the authorities, including the FBI, that may have convinced them beyond a shadow of a doubt that Timothy Deshaun Taylor was responsible for what had happened to Brittany. Because once again, Chad Drexel seems to be quite sure. What do you think about this? A lot of nothing to me. He's saying that I know, I know, but I'm not going to give you anything yet to support how I know. So it's just basically words. I don't like the fact that he's stating that his own private investigators were working actively with law enforcement on the case. That wouldn't make sense to me. We wouldn't normally do that. So I hope he's just embellishing and that wasn't the case because if the FBI and local

authorities are involved, I don't think they would have private investigators working with specifically the FBI. So I don't know how truthful that is, but this is what happens. And this is why law enforcement usually doesn't share information with the family because their emotions are involved. They can't help it. They're not wrong for that. But when they know information that the public doesn't, they may not disclose that information, but they do everything short of that when they see things out there and police departments won't do that. They won't do

what he just wrote here. They won't put the photo up of a potential suspect or person of interest on the internet and dox that person. So there's major problems here. And so if he was being given information that wasn't for public consumption, this is one of those situations where I think even you, Stephanie, would say, okay, yeah, you know, this is how it can ruin it for everybody else when their families are just trying to get information about their loved one's case. No, absolutely. And when you were saying like, this is why I knew exactly where you were going with it

because we have had this discussion before. But still, in this case with what happened to Brittany, it was still very early and they had new incoming information so I I don't see any reason when the case is cold 10 20 years to involve others and sort of like share information but when you have like an active lead that you're following and you have like a suspect in custody yeah probably not the best thing to do because yeah the family's gonna want people if they truly believe that Timothy Deshaun Taylor did this and now Timothy Deshaun Taylor is walking around,

they're going to have this concept. They're going to have an idea that, oh, maybe people, other people aren't safe from him, right? So now we want to warn people as a public service and let people know what's going on. And, you know, I can I can understand it would be very frustrating to if you truly thought that this young man did this to have his family and friends defending him like publicly. I can understand the frustration, but this is one of those emotional posts that I'm always like I'm always tempted to like write myself and my husband or you. You're like, don't do that. It's a it's a bad idea because you, you're like, don't do that. It's a bad idea because you're fueled right now by something that's going to just have you like typing out

a bunch of stuff and kind of like just bleeding out all over the screen or the keyboard instead of using logic and actually getting your message through in a productive way. So these are, luckily, I usually run those things by you or Adam, and then usually 90% of the time you guys are like, don't do that. And then I don't. I can't do it here. Can't do it here. This is a situation where this letter, this letter to, you know, a social media following could have led to someone taking justice into their own hands and killing Mr. Taylor. Could happen if they believe what he's writing. So you can have an innocent man be hurt or killed for something he wasn't involved in just because of your words.

This is something that's really, really dangerous. And it is a big reason why law enforcement is so apprehensive about giving families any information, even though I can tell you firsthand, it kills us not to. This is why, because once you do, and you let that animal out of the cage, that passion that they have for their kids, there's no telling them otherwise. And that's the risk you run by sharing anything. And I remember when we first started talking about Taequann Brown's story about the house and the gator pit and stuff like that, I asked you, what do you think of this story?, you know, the house and the gator pit and stuff like that. I asked you, like, what do you think of this story? And you were like, well, it seems, you know, detailed. It seems like he's giving very specific things that happened. And I remember hearing the reports about

the house and the gator pit when they first came out. And of course, it was compelling because I had been following the case and it was the first new information about Brittany that we had gotten in years, you know, but I also distinctly remember feeling that it sounded like a little dramatic, you know, kind of like something that would happen in a Liam Neeson movie, you know, like taken like a little too thought out, you know, he pulls up, he sees this horrendous thing happening. And then she's running out of the house and men are chasing her and they're pistol whipping her and pulling her back in. And then he hears shots and then he hears, you know, he sees two guys leave with a rolled up carpet. And then he's got this whole story about the gator pit. And then you've got FBI and law enforcement officials searching all these

gator pits. And when you look on TV and you see the news, you see them searching these gator pits. And it was just like, I don't know, it's a lot. And it's a lot coming from a not so reliable or credible source, like Taequann Brown, who was a jailhouse informant, who really, who was in prison for killing somebody himself, right? Probably was trying to give the police something. And I thought about it at that point. And I'm like, listen, Timothy Deshaun Taylor's father was sort of like implicated in maybe being connected to Brittany Drexel several years back. All this dude, Taequann Brown, had to do was read about that, figure out who he was related to, and then sort of like bring it back to that initial theory. Because Timothy Deshaun Taylor, the father, was initially considered a person of interest in this. So he could have just read the papers, figured that out, and then used it to build his

story off of. I think it's important to know whether they're telling the truth or not. You have to, as a police officer, know that most of the time, jailhouse informants, whether they're telling you the truth or not, they're giving you that information to benefit themselves. And that's always a filter that you have to enter those conversations knowing that they're doing it for their own benefit, not anybody else's. Very rarely do they come to this moment of clarity where they want to be a good guy. So that's something that you always have to go in there and use that type of skepticism when you're interviewing them. I agree. And Chad Drexel, he also claimed that he believed wholeheartedly that he'd come face to face with Timothy Deshaun

Taylor in 2013 when he had traveled to McClellanville to look for clues about what had happened to his daughter. I had firsthand knowledge of meeting Timothy Deshaun Taylor. Didn't know it at the time. That happened when you were down there putting up posters and flyers and doing things to keep the awareness going, right? Correct, I went down three years after Brittany went missing and I said to my private investigators,

can you bring me down to the area that you've been, the people you've been talking about to me so I can hand out flyers to everyone I see? What did you see? Well, when they dropped me off, I first visited what I believed is like a small little bar. I wanted to hand the bartender the flyer

and explain to him I'm the father of the missing girl that's been in the news, because if you possibly know anything, please give me a call or give them a call on the flyer. Then I went out and kind of friended some of the elders out there. They kind of laughed it off, kind of was, they were a little bit, you know, like, I don't want to be bothered with this. So about an hour later, I handed out flyers to cars that passed me, a couple cars that passed me. They took them nicely

and left. Then the very last car was half two-tone car, it was white in the top, black in the bottom. And when I stopped the car, they didn't want to stop it first in the area I'm standing in the middle of this dirt-type road black in the bottom. And when I stopped the car, they didn't want to stop it first in the area I'm standing in the middle is dirt type road in a rural neighborhood. And they finally stopped just before me. And I handed the flyer to the driver. The two people in the back were whispering something. And then I put my head in and I said, hey,

have you guys seen this missing girl? I'm her dad. Do you guys know anything about this? And they laughed. And I said, well, could you just take this anyway? Said the driver. he took it. That's when they crumpled up the flyer and threw it out and sped off as they were all laughing. Now, he was leaning on the car like this, so I could see that there was no arm there.

Well, that was the key factor. When I got back to the Department of Investigators, they said, you know who you just met? And I said, no um that's timothy dayshon taylor so you think you may have actually handed a flyer i don't think i know i did and this is how i know he had told one of the investigators that was talking to him at the time that yeah i met the father he had told them that and then they told me. He remembers seeing you, Chad. Timothy Deshawn, we believe, he is leading the whole, let's snatch her, let's keep her, the raping. He's the person that's doing all the bad. And again, I have to say, these individuals have not been charged. They've not been indicted. Even Dr. Phil is like, I just, you're making some bold statements here. I just want to reiterate that no one is guilty right now. Like we just going to keep it calm

and cool and collected here. But yeah, Chad Drexel seemed pretty sure that he had, you know, encountered Timothy Deshaun Taylor and Timothy Taylor had like crumbled up a missing persons flyer at Brittany. And this is kind of just adding to his belief that this man is guilty of this. Yeah. Dr. Phil was quick with the lawyers to qualify everything to make sure they're not getting sued. That's for sure. It's an interesting story. I'm not going to ask too many questions. I'm assuming you're going to go into it or do you not go into it as far as was this ever corroborated? He's saying that an investigator, he didn't say whether it was a law enforcement official or his own PI.

He said a PI. He said, yeah. He said my investigator. So I'm assuming, yeah. And based on what he's saying, we're assuming that his investigator interviewed Mr. Taylor, which I don't know if that's documented anywhere. So that's interesting. So it looks like the police, and we kind of heard Timothy Taylor mentioned this in his interview. But in 2009, when Brittany went missing, he was one of the people that they had initially interviewed. But when asked why that they had initially interviewed him in 2009, he said, well, I think they were interviewing like a lot of people in this area because this is before Taequann Brown comes out with his, you know, jailhouse informant story about the gator pit and all that. So it looks like probably there was a log of people that the police had interviewed. Maybe the police did share that

information with the private investigator who then shares it with Chad. But that's just my speculation of what happened. I don't know for sure if that's what happened. If you were to ask me, how did the private investigator get information about Timothy Deshaun Taylor? I would say that's the most likely way it happened. But I don't know for sure. Allegedly. Okay. Well, we'll note it. See where it goes.

Now, as I had stated earlier, there was some elaboration to the initial story of Taequann Brown. He kept everything the same, except now he claimed he had seen Brittany a few other times after hearing gunshots and assuming she had been killed. Five days after this, Brown drove to his cousin Herman's house to show him a new car he had just purchased. Now, Herman lived in rural Jacksonboro, which is 80 miles away from McClellanville and 130 miles away from where Brittany had last been seen in Myrtle Beach. Brown claimed when he arrived, he saw Brittany Drexel inside his cousin Herman's trailer. He said Brittany had a black eye and she appeared to be drugged and she was sitting in an

armchair. Now at this time when Brown saw her, Brittany was with a group of men, one of whom Brown identified only as Nate. Brown was also now claiming to be a witness to Brittany's murder, and he said, quote, there's a wooded area on the property line, so we were walking through the path and the shooting took place. Nate shot her with a double barrel shotgun two times, end quote. After this, Brown claims that some of Brittany's remains were buried in a garden area on the property, and after some time had passed, they were dug up and then taken to a gator pond. Taquan Brown named his cousin Herman and two other witnesses in the shooting, but Herman had died of a heart attack by this point. One of the other witnesses had been murdered in 2016, and the third was unable to be found.

In April of 2019, the FBI confirmed that they were searching a now-abandoned trailer on Camp Avenue in Jacksonboro, a trailer that had once been occupied by Taquan Brown's cousin Herman, and people had questions. Firstly, why were they searching this area when Brown had initially claimed that Brittany had been killed in McClellanville? Now, Jacksonboro is located in Colleton County, and Brittany's mother had requested that their sheriff's department help the FBI search the area for the remains of her daughter. Dawn Drexel said, quote, They could have very possibly taken her out of that area because we were down there searching at that point, and they didn't want her to be seen.

This is way off the beaten track. I'm hoping for a break in the case. I'm tired. I'm very tired, but I'm also frustrated. I want my daughter to be found, end quote. The other question was why had it taken the FBI so long to search the Jacksonboro trailer? Law enforcement claimed they had not known about this part of the story. They didn't know about this area, but Taquan Brown claimed that he had told the police and the FBI about the trailer in 2016, the same year his cousin Herman had died from a heart attack. Brown also claimed that he had passed a polygraph exam and he wasn't being offered anything in exchange for his cooperation. He said he'd only come forward after his family members started receiving death threats and he had agreed to work with the police in return for his own protection and the protection of his loved ones. Taquan Brown also told the media that although he'd given the police all the information and basically solved the crime

for them, nothing had come of it yet. There was no arrest, there was no charges, and he was filing a lawsuit against them claiming he'd been put in danger when law enforcement had released his name to the public. The FBI and local authorities did search the abandoned trailer where Taquan Brown claimed Brittany Drexel had spent her last days, but they found nothing. This did not stop the internet from running with these claims, even though the only information they had to go on were the allegations of Taquan Brown, who one poster stated, quote, has little reason to lie, and lying actually puts him in extreme danger. He isn't being offered a plea deal, so I think he's basically being truthful, end quote. The poster went on to say that this group of animals was likely doing this on the regular, kidnapping a girl, keeping her for

a while, and getting rid of her after they got a new one. All of this speculation began to lead to references of the Taylor crime family, with true crime blogs posting mugshots, criminal records, and known associates of Timothy Sean Taylor and his son, Timothy Deshaun Taylor. So I want to mention here that this was a big thing, and there's still a lot of blogs, you can find them if you search, where they're talking consistently about the Taylor crime family and all the things that they were connected to. And I don't know how much of it is true. I couldn't tell you what the members of the Taylor family were up to. And I'm sure they

did things that weren't on the up and up sometimes. I have no idea. I'm not going to make any allegations about whether they did or not. What I do know, though, is that no one really knew what Taquan Brown was getting in return for his cooperation with the police in the Brittany Drexel matter. He simply stated like, oh, I'm not doing this for anything. I'm not getting anything in return besides like protection for myself and my family. But that could have been not true. He could have been, you know, in talks with the police to get his sentence reduced or to get moved to a more, you know, minimum security facility. There could have been some talks happening where they were like, if this pans out, you know, if this works, if we if it leads to an arrest, then, yeah, we will we will do something for you. So basically, they only had to go on the fact that he said he wasn't getting anything in return and he said he was afraid for his safety and the safety of his family.

And they kind of ran with it. And that all makes sense to me. Like you said, it doesn't have to be preemptively guaranteed. It could be just insinuated or it could be assumed that if the information he gives leads to something, he will be taken care of on the back end. So he can say those things with a straight face, knowing how the system works and knowing that, hey, if I throw enough darts at the wall and one of them hits, win for me. And you had said it earlier, he's throwing out the names of individuals who coincidentally are all either dead, missing, or unable to be spoken to at any point to discredit what

he's saying, which is pretty convenient. The fact that he's elaborating further with more details and changing his story, not good. I could tell you as an investigator, you're not looking at this like, yes, he's starting to really open up. He's starting, We're really starting to crack him now. If he's starting to divulge more information like this, I'm actually not feeling as good. Now I'm getting that pit in my stomach where I'm like, oh no, now he's just telling us what we want to hear. This is not good. Stop talking because you're losing us with every word out of your mouth. And I'm sure, I hope, that if the investigators were good on it, they saw it as well, where, okay, we've seen this before.

Now he's just, he's just giving us whatever he can in the hope that it leads to something where he can say, see, I was kind of right there. I got some of that, you know, I was partially on with what happened. What are you going to do for me? Not good. Yeah. And to be fair, he tells his initial story in 2016. They go real hard at Timothy Deshaun Taylor. And then I believe it was like end of 2018,

maybe even 2019, where he comes out with like this new information that he's telling the media and he's telling the media, like, I don't know why the police haven't followed up on this information. They've had it the whole time. And the police are probably over here like, what? We have never heard this before in our lives. You know, you've never told us this stuff. And like now we're going to search because now you've told the public and we're expected to search this like trailer area in Jacksonboro. But no, you did not tell us this in 2016. If you had told us this in 2016, we would have been at that property like we were at that stash house and we would have been following these leads, especially for Cousin Herman who died, you know, conveniently in 2016.

We would have been looking earlier on if you had told us this. So I believe it was at this point they started to be like, maybe he's not so reliable, right? Mm hmm. Yep, absolutely. That's that's how you would look at it, because these are pretty specific details. This isn't something you would just remember years later. That's pretty compelling information. I'm sure that you would be able to recall those details. And I've seen that happen before. It's not good. It's not good because you automatically, they're thinking that they're helping themselves when in reality, they're losing investigators

and they're gonna start doubting everything they've said, not only in that moment, but also in the past. Yeah, and this went on for several years, and it still kind of is going on because Timothy Taylor's family, they've been speaking out consistently since these accusations have been brought up. They've been maintaining his innocence, trying to raise awareness that, you know, even after he was released from jail and he wasn't charged in connection with Brittany Drexel, he was still

permanently tied to the case. And in the court of public opinion, you know, he was still being considered a person of interest, a suspect. You had these blogs who were talking about the Taylor crime family and it's all over Facebook and stuff. It's going to affect him. It might affect his chances of getting a job. He could be attacked. He could be the target of something. So this wasn't just like, oh, we were wrong. Sorry. Or we don't have enough to charge you. You know, go out and live your life. There was some ripple effects here that happened. And I do believe that even though they realized

Taquan Brown was kind of like full of shit, law enforcement still sort of had their eye on Taquan Brown just in case, and they were still maybe going to have him in that person of interest file that they were keeping for Brittany. I don't have a problem with that. I mean, if they don't have exculpatory evidence, something to completely rule them out, I don't have an issue with that. I don't even have an issue, to be honest, with the way they approached him and trying to maybe get more information out of him. Ultimately, did they ever go through with the felony charge in federal court? Not the felony charge, but the federal charge of the case. Did they ever go through with that or just threaten it? They did. He was indicted. He did spend some time behind bars and

then he was denied bond. And then eventually he got the bond. And I don't know what happened from there, but he was out. The specifics, because they could have dropped it. Okay. And so we go back and forth on that, but they were following up on a lead. They probably weren't, or they actually weren't putting his information out there. It was the family that was doing it, which really complicated things and made it the issue that you just brought up now. Nothing, not going to blame family members. I can't even imagine what it is like to go through something like this. And I hope I never understand. But being pragmatic here, this was a misstep. This was a misstep and it could have hurt the case exponentially. And maybe it did. I know, I can't deny the fact that I know there were developments in the case. I know there

were arrests made. So those are the types of things where luckily it appears that that wasn't the situation, but it very easily can be. So these are the things we always have to think about. We talk about it on Crime Weekly all the time, pros and cons to having the family members involved and not only from an investigatory perspective, but also a safety perspective where, as you've already alluded to, when you start throwing names and faces out there, there are crazy people out there that will take justice into their own hands. And that's a dangerous thing. So it's something we have to be aware of when we're trying to get justice for these families, but we've got to make sure we're

doing it in the right way. I don't even think it was initially the family that had put his name out there. It was like the press conference happened and then all of a sudden the media was reporting that this individual, Timothy Deshaun Taylor, was being arrested or brought back in for a different charge. And then when Munoz, the FBI agent, had to reveal during his trial to deny Bond that he was a suspect in the Brittany Drexel case, the media got a hold of it. They printed his name, they printed his picture. And then at that point, I believe the Drexel family was probably like, well, it's already out there. We can elaborate on at least what we think about this dude now. And so it kind of snowballed from there as it does.

That's it definitely does. Well, that's part two and you're already kind of through that. So I feel like there's a lot more to the story. And as you're continuing here, it really seems like this theory about her being kidnapped and sexually exploited and raped multiple times before being killed. I don't know what the truth is going to be, but there is a small part of me that's hopeful that this was a complete fallacy and this isn't what happened to her. So I don't have much peace in it at all, but just that little bit of relief that this may not be the case, that this may not be what happened to her. And so that's the one positive thing I take out of this episode. I completely agree. I will tell you that Timothy Deshaun Taylor, Timothy Sean Taylor, his father, these were

not the two people arrested for Brittany's murder. So whatever, you know, whatever they had to do with anything aside from that, they were not arrested for her murder. And I can't imagine that the person who was worked with them. But I agree with you. This is a horrendous story that Taequann Brown told. Fuck that dude for even coming up with something like that in his head, to be honest, because this is a horrendous story to tell. And to put that out there, knowing that the parents of this girl are going to hear this. And I mean, for years as the parents, this would have been playing in my head over and over and over again. This is torture. And the fact that he did lie, because I'll come straight on and tell you, dude lied to Quan Brown. It appears allegedly that he lied.

He should be prosecuted for that. He should be, I don't know what you could possibly do to him other than keeping him in prison where he already is. But there needs to be. Lying to a federal agent, obstruction of justice. There's a few things. Yeah, but I mean, he's in prison for manslaughter. It's like, what are you going to do? Just keep him in prison longer.

Like, there needs to be some sort of accountability because you can't. Well, the way we're letting people out early. Yeah, for real. Tack them on. Yeah. And I'd be interested to see when we're going to discuss next where Taequann Brown is right now and what he's got to say, if anything, about this new information. Because we will discuss that next week when we pick up with the final episode in the Brittany Drexel case. Great.

Looking forward to it. All right. We will see you guys then. Don't forget to follow us on social media, Instagram, and Twitter. Handles are in the description box if you're watching on YouTube. And if you're not watching on YouTube, Derek's going to tell you where you can follow us. Yep. At Crime Weekly Pod on Instagram and Twitter.

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Later, guys.