Crime Weekly - S2 Ep92: Summer Wells: The Cornbread Mafia and Other Theories (Part 3)

Episode Date: August 26, 2022

From the very beginning, the disappearance of five year old Summer Wells has caused confusion and frustration for everyone following it, from people watching it unfold on the news and on the internet and the websleuths who have made this case their personal project, to the law enforcement officials trying to put the pieces together. Due to the widespread attention, the investigation and news coverage of this case has been marked with a great deal of speculation and rumors, which is often what happens when so much is left unknown, and when the official narrative doesn’t really add up. Stephanie covered Summer’s disappearance on YouTube when it initially happened, but since then there have been more updates and more information has come to the light, and we know there were a lot of people who wanted us to talk about this case on Crime Weekly, because Derrick would be able to contribute his unique detective perspective and hopefully it will provide us with some insight of what happened here, and if there is any truth to the multiple rumors that have muddied the waters of this case. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

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this. And I want to go into today's episode sort of looking at the extraneous kind of variables, like the what could have happened, because I think it's pretty clear, you know, besides Derek and I feeling instinctually that probably Summer's parents know more than they're saying. I think we can say that safely, you know, that we feel like there's something going on there that we don't know about and there's pieces that are missing and there's connections that aren't happening. And it's not really as simple and cut and dry as, you know, Candace and Don Wells have made it seem to be. I think we can all agree on that. So we're going to kind of look outside of that box today and see, you know, is it possible that Summer was abducted by some random stranger?

Is it possible she wandered off? Is it possible that something happened besides her parents being directly involved, even though I will say one of the theories that I'm talking about today, when I explore this theory, it still, to me, leads back to probability being somebody in her family knows something more than they're saying. So I don't know. How are you feeling about this? Well, whenever we talk about a child, it always sucks because it's like, we know at the end of this episode tonight, there's not going to be the resolution that we all want. But I do agree with you as far as there's some culpability there. We're unaware of how significant it is, but there's something there. And it could be as simple as, let's say we believe that Summer was abducted. Well,

that still means that the parents, or at least least Candace is not telling us everything that went on that day, because according to her, Summer was only out of her sight for a couple of minutes. Whether that's intentionally misleading us or just a lack of a sense of time, something doesn't add up based on what she's told us so far, which is why this case is so troubling. And I was reading a bunch of the comments and there's so many things that were said, but a couple of things that were brought up by a few of you were the brothers. I know the brothers were pretty young. I think the oldest at the time, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it was 12. So that's not that young. I mean, that's like sixth grade. I still remember a lot of things that happened to me in sixth grade. So I would really like to see what those interviews were like, because I'm under the impression that the 12 year old had nothing to do it. Although I will say some people in the comments said, Hey, has anybody looked at the teen boys as well? So I would love to interview them. I would love to interview Candace. There's just something about that day as far as the timeline that we have that leaves a lot to

be desired and makes you wonder where the truth really is. Wait, what teen boys? So there were people in the comments who said, listen, it's not unheard of to have a teen boy playing rough with their little sister or something. And could there have been an accident where they're playing in the woods or something

and they push her or something and her head hits a rock and now Candace feels this obligation to protect them? Nothing to substantiate that, but I don't say this to cover my ass. It's honestly how I feel. Who am I to rule out anything? I don't know any more than you guys, as far as this case is concerned. So for me to sit here and say, when one of you in the comment mentions, you know, well, maybe something happened with the boys and maybe the boys do know more and maybe they were somehow involved with what happened this summer. Who am I to say you're wrong? No, I get it. That's where I stand on it. So everything's still, everything's still in play, which also is unnerving with this case because we're not even

close to what actually happened to Summer. There still needs to be more information before we can come to any conclusions or at least rule out certain scenarios. So for me, I think it's less likely that something happened with the boys simply because they did bring scent dogs in and they brought cadaver dogs in. And I have to feel like if there had been, even if it had been in the forest or something on that property, if Summer's blood had been there, you know, the dogs would have picked it up and this would have been a very different investigation. As far as we know, that didn't happen. Additionally, those boys, they were taken by CPS, you know, just a couple

of months after. So they're not that old. You say teen boys, but I do believe, like you said, the oldest is 12. So that's still, you're not in like the 14, 15 range where you've kind of like honed your lying skills. And I don't think you could get three boys to continue this whole lie and this charade for this long, especially once they're out from under the supervision of their parents who they'd be afraid of, you know, lying about and trying to protect them and things like that. So I think at this point, the authorities probably would have gotten some version of the truth from one of the boys. But you would think I definitely I mean, they're young, so they're scared and they're sad about what happened to their sister. You know, at least one of them is going to be. And so you'd think that they'd come clean by now. They're not like adults. They're not worried about going to prison. They're not worried about all the shame and the judgment from the outside world. They're kids.

They just want to make sure that, you know, their sister is okay or that people know what happened. They're not going to keep that hidden for that long, I don't think. There's a large group of people out there that think Burke was responsible for JonBenet's death. And if that's the case, Burke was young when it happened. He hasn't told anybody. And something that happened with Chris when they were doing the interview, the whole going down the stair, that little ladder from the main floor to the basement, that looked pretty dangerous to me too. And I wonder, could it have been a situation where Summer fell and broke her neck where you wouldn't have any blood?

So there's a lot. That's what I'm saying. There's so many scenarios based on the situation, the environment that Summer was in. I'm talking the dad's previous behavior with his sister, the boys being boys and Candace not being present. And just there's a lot of things that could have happened. It could be as extreme as there was a homicide that took place on that property by one of the relatives, or it could be an accident, a horrible accident where Candace felt like she could go to go to jail for this because of her negligence. And they decided to cover it up. Maybe the boys didn't even know that that happened. Maybe Candace goes down to the basement and find Summer. Yeah, that's what I'm leaning more towards. And I think somebody in the

comments said when the neighbor heard the scream, they thought it was Candace finding Summer, finding that something had happened to her, finding her hurt or dead, and then Candace screams. And that's why there was such a big disparity in time between when the neighbor heard the scream and when Candace reported Summer missing. And in that scenario, I would say, yes, if Summer fell down that ladder thing into the basement and broke her neck, Candace finds her, screams. The boys aren't going to know exactly what happened. They're going to believe their mom who said, oh, we couldn't find Summer, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Because I'm going to believe a kid any day over an adult in this situation because adults have things to protect and things to hide.

And kids are far more like, you know, upfront and just kind of like earnest when it comes to these things. They have less to protect and less to hide, I think. I had one more question for you before we dive into it because it was another listener who DMed me and asked me about it. At the time when Summer went missing, her head was completely shaven, right? It was not completely shaven. It was like, you know, very, very short, cropped cut. Like just to kind of give reference, like Stranger Things 11 type length? Yeah, maybe a little tad bit longer, but yeah, around that. Yeah, Stranger Things 11 season one.

Do you think, based on what we know about Candace and her means of carrying out punishment, you know, we talked about the alleged driveway incident. The listener who DMed me was like, could that have been something where Summer was being punished? Her head was shaven by Candace or Don prior to that. Maybe she really didn't want her hair that she looked beautiful with her hair. With the photo that I used for the first thumbnail, her hair was like shoulder length. It was beautiful. Do you think that could have been an indication of some type of child abuse where they shaved

her head as a form of saying, hey, this is what you get for doing whatever she did? So in my opinion, Summer did not want her head shaved like that. We remember that she wanted to be like Elsa. She wanted to be a princess, et cetera, et cetera. There were some things floating around that maybe Candace, the boys, and Summer had all had head lice. And that's why their heads were all shaved in a very similar close, short haircut. So I don't think it was a punishment because you can see in previous pictures of the boys even that their hair wasn't that short so it seemed like

everybody's head got like shaved at the same time except for don who will admit himself like he's never around and he's never home anyways so it's candace who's home with the kids all day long so if they got lice she probably got it too or vice versa. And they all shaved their heads, but they never wanted to admit that because once again, similar to what you were saying in part one of this, she has this very real need to make everybody think she's a very perfect parent. And apparently she thinks that her kids getting lice makes her not a good parent or that there's something wrong with her parenting. I don't know. I can't get in Candace's head. I don't want to. No. Well, that was really it. Moral of the story

to what you just said, we can lean a certain way, but everything is, I wish it was down to like one or two options, but really it could be anything at this point. It really is because we're going off the narrative that's given to us by a person of interest. So when the person of interest is someone who's given you the information to base your investigation off of, that's tough. Yeah, it's tough. And I want to point out within the first months of this investigation, even though law enforcement and the TBI didn't have any evidence that Summer had been abducted, as they continued saying over and over again, they still attempted to cover their bases, and this led them to interviewing all known sex offenders in the area, and you can see that they're all different colors. The ones notated by red markings, that means they were convicted of an offense against a child. Now, the one that stands out to me, it has an address that's only a five-minute drive from 110 Ben Hill Road in Rogersville, Tennessee, where Summer lived with her parents and her three older brothers. But as far as I can tell, this guy that this red mark notates, he's the only sex

offender who even lived in Rogersville. The other ones kind of lived in surrounding areas. I personally don't think there is much to the theory that Summer was targeted by some local sex offender, at least not one who's on the registry. As I said, law enforcement did interview the ones they knew about, and I'm sure that those interviews included getting and proving an alibi. And once again, even after talking to these, um, sex offenders, they continue to say that there was no evidence she had been abducted. So I can't imagine that any one of these people didn't have an alibi and the police would kind of like overlook that, you know, there's that. And then there's also these are the people who have been identified. There's also individuals who have either not been caught or it could be a first time offense. But I'm with you as well. I mean, the way the property is laid out, it's tough to think this could have been a premeditated act. The only world where I see it being the case is that for some reason, which we haven't been able to figure out why, Summer would have went to the main road on her own without being lured out there. Because again, that would require someone to go onto the property without being observed at any point in time, which is

very unlikely. So if we're going to go down the rabbit hole of Summer was taken, we also have to have an explanation as to why Summer would walk up that driveway by herself or walk through that wooded area that we kind of went through last week, the dog trail there, out to that road for whatever reason. We'd have to be able to explain that first. at it with a couple ideas as to why she might have done that, but they're all very, very unlikely and kind of unreasonable, but not impossible, I guess, if I'm qualifying here. Okay, so check it out. If we're going with the random, pedophile, nefarious person snatches Summer, for me, there's like one of two scenarios. It's either a person who knows the family, is friendly with the family, has been to the house before, has had summer in their sights, has developed like an infatuation with her, has camped outside her house waiting for their perfect moment for God knows how long. Or if we're going to say, well, she may have

wandered off and made it to the road herself and somebody picked her up. Well, we're going to have to assume she's gotten onto the road and now she's been on the road for an extended period of time, because what are the odds that she just walks down the hill, steps out onto the road, and then a pedophile is driving by and they're like, oh, well, my lucky day. Here's a little girl right here as soon as I'm driving by. She would have had to have been on that road walking for long enough where somebody, some motorist, some passerby would have said, oh, yeah, I saw Summer walking down the road, or I saw a little blonde girl walking down the road, and I thought that was odd. But now that I heard there's one missing, and none of that's happened. So it either has to be someone

the family knows that they're protecting and they're not talking about who raised red flags possibly or she got to the road and was walking and not one person saw her before a pedophile. A pedophile or a nefarious person was the first person who saw her. Neither of those scenarios sounds very likely to me. And this is why I think there's a lot of people out there who think the parents did it, not just because of what the parents have said or not said, but just because of what you just laid out, which it's very hard to believe that all those things took place and not a single witness saw Summer walking on that road that day. And then we still have to go back to why would Summer just start walking down this road by herself for no apparent reason when she had just told her mother allegedly that she was going inside to play with her brothers? Why

would she immediately go down into the basement and then out the side door down to the main road without telling anyone? So it's a tough pill to swallow. And I think that's why when people go after the parents, I don't think everyone's just saying, oh, you know what? Lack of any other people of interest, it's got to be the parents. No, there's a lot more to it other than the initial stuff. So I don't have any rebuttal. I agree with everything you said. Yeah. As a parent, I don't want to automatically think it's the parents. These are the last people that I want it to be. So when I'm really leaning in that direction, it's not because I'm a hater or because it's like, oh, you suck, Candace and Don. It's like, I just don't know what else to think at this point. But we're going to go to a quick break

because the next section here is going to have me heated, and I'm going to need to prepare myself for that. So we'll be right back. Okay, so we're back. I want to talk about what Don believes happened to Summer. Don Wells believes that his daughter was taken by human traffickers after they became aware of her on social media. And I'm going to bring forward some statistics in today's episode because we're going to be talking about the probability of certain scenarios. Before I started researching specific true crime cases, back in the day when I was just your average watcher and consumer of true crime, I had this idea that sex trafficking and human trafficking were like what you see in

movies, specifically, you know, like Taken with Liam Neeson. I thought it was this scary thing that happened to teenagers or young women who were out of the country and they would just be stolen away from their families and their homes and hidden in these like dark warehouses in some Eastern European country, drugged and stripped of their identities, guarded by scary men with machine guns, and never found again. And of course, we know that does happen. But the more common face of sex trafficking is much closer to home than anyone is comfortable thinking about. According to UNICEF, child trafficking is the recruitment, coercion, transportation, transfer, harboring, or receipt of children under the ages of 18 for the purpose

of exploitation. Child trafficking happens in all 50 states in the U.S., and according to the U.S. Department of State 2019 Trafficking in Persons Report, 77% of trafficking victims are exploited within their country of residence. What I've come to find is that it's not always strangers who are snatching kids off the street with the intent to sell them into exploitation. Sometimes, and usually, it's the child's own family, who are not only facilitating the exploitation of the child, but benefiting from it. More than 200,000 children are victims of sex trafficking in the U.S. every year,

and their families or family friends are the most likely to exploit them. For 90% of victims, child trafficking starts in the home, and the average age of a victim of familial trafficking in the U.S. is only five years old, while some children are actually victimized from infancy. According to the National Sexual Violence Resource Center, one in four girls and one in six boys in the United States will be sexually abused before the age of 18. If you think about it, those statistics are staggering. Those numbers are staggering and unacceptable. And only 12% of this abuse is ever reported to the authorities.

Now, a specific person I read a lot about, her name is Kelly Dorr. She was trafficked from the age of one, and she was continually trafficked by her own father until she was 14 years old. And Kelly's father not only sexually abused his own baby daughter, but allowed his friends to do so as well. This little girl started to be groomed and abused before her first birthday. You heard me right, her first birthday. This little girl was told from the very beginning that God made her for this, that her body was a vessel for other people's pleasure, that her pain, her humiliation, and her dignity, it did not matter at all. She couldn't comprehend the enormity of the situation around her, but all she knew is that everything that she was told. And she didn't understand why people were around her and didn't save her. They didn't help her. If she told anybody that was what was

happening to her or what was going on in her life, she would pay the consequences for it. Other people would pay the consequences for it. But in her mind, and she was told, she was absolutely told all the time, everybody knows this is happening. This is happening to you because you deserve it, because you were born for this. So she knew, but she also knew the consequences of talking about it. So she didn't talk. She buried it deep inside, and she buried it so that the pain numbed her entire body. She went to preschool. She went to kindergarten, elementary school, and middle school. Every single day, she interacted with peers.

She was in front of people every single day. But she knew that they didn't need to know the secret she had because after all, all of her friends were doing it. So that was Kelly in that clip um and when she was talking about this girl who was abused from the age of one she's talking about herself she explains this life that she had and it really struck me because we often think like oh if this was happening to a kid they would say something right but it's it's not that easy familial sex trafficking is much more common than we know because it is insidious it's hidden and kept secret and it often starts at such a young age

that the child grows up believing this is just how life is and they're being told this by trusted adults by parents and family members the people who are supposed to teach them how the world works and what their place in the world is like kelly was saying she was told that she was made for this that she was made to provide pleasure to these adult men and this was her purpose in the world and that this was happening to all her friends and all the other kids just nobody talked about it and it was a it was something to be ashamed of but this was her place in the world and this is what she was created for can you imagine being told that as a a small child how destructive that is to the psyche to your brain to your heart to your soul and um that that's that's why it's so insidious because if you have bad people bad trusted adults bad parents who teach

a child that the world works in this twisted and perverted way and that their place in the world is to be hurt and abused and robbed of any semblance of innocence. That's what they believe. That's what they learn. It's a horrible story. And I know that I know that Kelly's not the only one who's gone through this. It's terrible. It's kind of speechless every time I hear it. And it's not the first time I've heard a story like this, but there's really not much more to be said than what Kelly just said in that little clip. It's terrible. As I try to relate it to Summer's situation, kind of sound like a broken record here as

far as like, well, you know, I don't think it's plausible. I don't think it's likely, but it's can't rule it out definitively. All I can say is my gut tells me that's not the case here. But what does that mean? That's just my gut from the limited amount of interviews that I've seen from the family members. This could have been occurring between a small group of individuals. It may explain some things as far as discrepancies with the times. So I can't say, oh, no, absolutely not possible. Maybe I'm just starting to lean towards something else, which will obviously give our final thoughts

at the end of the episode. But I don't think that's what was happening here. Although, who am I to say for sure it wasn't? Well, let's turn our attention to specifically Tennessee and narrow the field of vision for a minute. Good morning. Well, the last year, the TBI human trafficking unit, take a look at this, conducted 13 undercover operations including several in East Tennessee. More than 130 people were arrested. On average, 85 minors are trafficked in the state every single month. It's like cancer. It knows no boundaries. Across 33 counties in East Tennessee, lots of times folks are shocked and surprised. Brenna Zachariah says this underreported

crime is more common than you may think. We have worked with clients from the youngest age of three all the way up to 60. Last year, the Community Coalition Against Human Trafficking had 300 reports in East Tennessee. This year, they already have 85 and predict more are on the way. Zachariah, an educator with the coalition, says it's not like what you see in movies or TV shows. It's actually the complete opposite. So lots of times victims are targeted or exploited by someone that they didn't know. They're related to this person. They're in a related to this person,

they're in a relationship with this person, making it the perfect crime. The perfect crime with a lifelong impact on its victims. Over a two-day period beginning on July 14, 2022, authorities in Tennessee placed several decoy advertisements on websites known to be linked to prostitution, and the focus of the operation was to identify people who were actively seeking to engage in commercial sex acts with minors. Six people were arrested during this operation. This month, or the month before that, 12 men were arrested in Nashville, Tennessee, in an undercover sex trafficking operation, and these men were also looking to purchase time with minors for sex acts. A 2020 article on wjhl.com reports, quote, in more rural areas, especially East Tennessee, we see a lot of familial trafficking in disadvantaged

areas where there's a lot of drug addiction and poverty. It is such a cash flow generator that it is constantly growing. As a trafficker, you have a product which would be that trafficking victim. You sell that trafficking victim, but they don't go away. You can sell that victim 10 times a day for five days a week, end quote. Gabby Smith, the head of Grow Free Tennessee with the Community Coalition Against Human Trafficking, gave a specific example, saying, quote, A little boy who would be sent to the landlord's house, and the landlord was taking advantage of the child. Of course, the child didn't know why or what for. Upon investigation,

it came out that the mother was receiving money off her rent, end quote. So the mother sending the little boy over to the landlord's house, knowing that the landlord is abusing the child so that she can get money off of her rent. The Community Coalition Against Human Trafficking told CBS News 8, quote, in reality, what we see here in eastern Tennessee, particularly when we talk about kids experiencing trafficking, is a crime that's happening in their own home. The most common form of human trafficking for our kids here in eastern Tennessee is familial trafficking, which means their family member is the trafficker. There's a really close correlation in the opiate epidemic. But when we talk about familial trafficking, you're talking about to cover for basic costs in that home. So it might be for drugs. It might be for food. It might be clothing. It might be housing. It might be a job opportunity. It might be access to medical care or access to dental care for individuals in

the home. This is oftentimes not necessarily a money-making industry. It's more survival tactic, end quote. I don't like that. I don't like that they said that because I appreciate this coalition. This coalition has actually worked with a lot of kids in Tennessee as young as three years old. But that last statement, it kind of makes it feel like they're making it seem not as bad as it is. You know, like, yeah, they're doing this, but they're doing it to survive. Like they're selling their own kids to, to, to sexual predators so that they can, you know, get dental care for the family. Like that's gross.

I don't like that at all. I'm glad you don't like that. You shouldn't. That's a good thing. No, it's terrible. I wonder, as I'm thinking about this, would we expect to see, I would think as an investigator, I would expect to see that this trafficking would not be isolated to just the one female child. Because unfortunately, I know for a fact that a lot of predators out there, male predators, they prefer little boys. I don't know the psychology behind that, but that's something that we found

a lot with the things that we did. When they had a preference, it was surprisingly little boys over little girls. That's strange, because that's not what the statistics say at all. That's weird. Just from my limited, just from, well, statistics, what statistics are you pulling from, from this area? So we're talking, is that national statistics? Yeah, national human trafficking statistics say that it's like, I forget, we said them earlier in the episode, but like one, one in three girls and one in six boys, but. Yeah. Yeah. No, just in the, and we don't have, we didn't have a lot of it, but I do. And we would never, it was always like Craigslist when that was a thing. We use that. We would also also have this this weird thing where there would be

postings for mattresses around my area and that mattress sale was was code for young children or or prostitution so we would call up these postcards or these signs that were on telephone poles and and pretend like we were looking for a child or looking for a young woman to have sex with. Yo, that's real. That is real. Because I swear years ago, I used to like conspiracy theory videos a lot. And I remember years ago, I was watching a video about a conspiracy theory and they were like, oh, if you see ads for mattress sales, this is like human trafficking of minors. And everybody was like, you're crazy. But that's an actual thing. Oh, yeah. I actually had a case where I was

working patrol in uniform, saw this sign go up. It was, you know, use mattresses for sale. It was like two streets over from where I was patrolling, happened to drive by there, saw multiple cars from out of state driving up to the house. That's usually a sign of some type of illegal activity because this area wasn't a through route to get from Massachusetts to Connecticut or anything. It was like, you really have to go off the path. So told detectives about it. They got me off shift, changed me into jeans and a sweatshirt. I called the number. I actually went into the house and the code word was hot.

I was hot. I went in. There was two women in there. They were both over the age of 18, but it was prostitution. It wasn't juveniles. But the gist that we got from this apartment, there were all multiple rooms, just mattresses set up in every room. And it appeared based on some of the clothes and some of the things that were there, toys,

that there had been children passing through there at some point. Unfortunately, we didn't, we didn't find any in there at the time, but it just, the looks of it, it seemed like this was a kind of a through route where the women were coming from overseas and then they were going right there and then going somewhere else as they continued on. But it was disgusting in there. There was roaches, rats, everything. It was horrible. That was the one time in my entire career where I was undercover for a human trafficking investigation. We actually ended up bringing in the FBI for that one because it expanded past our jurisdiction. But to kind of, to bring this back, well, did you have any follow-up for that part before I say anything else?

Yeah, that's, no, I just want to hear more. I want to keep going. There wasn't a ton to it. That was really it. We had made a deal. There was an exchange of money for sex with one of the girls in the other room. So as soon as they said that, I had them. You know, I can never, I can't say, yeah. So as soon as I said that I had them, you know, I can never, I can't say, yeah. So as soon as I said, you know, what am I here for? And he was like, oh, blow job 20, you know, sex a hundred. As soon as they initiate it, you can't initiate it. You can't say, Hey, I want to have sex with her for 20 bucks. Are you cool with that? You can say like, oh, I'm here about the mattress.

Yep. So I can say, how does it work? And if they say that there's an exchange of money for a sexual act, then that's it. And the interesting thing, I got to be careful what I, yeah, it's all, it's all adjudicated. The women, one of the women were actually upset that we were, that we had arrested him. And she was saying, basically it was voluntarily, she was voluntarily doing it the other woman felt was in fear and we we got her out of there we moved her out of the state she got taken care of okay so then i i have one more follow-up then to go back really quick um so you said you know you're surprised it wasn't maybe the boys too well we don't know first of all if it was

but that's that's it right they did they did take the boys from the house. They did take the boys from the house. And there were other reasons besides what Don was saying, oh, they weren't safe and it's best for now. Obviously, the state decided this isn't the best place for these kids. But I will say, there's a lot of talk and you'll hear in these interviews, because Summer was five. Okay, I have a five-year-old daughter. My daughter talks, you've heard her on the phone, Mingya, I can't five-year-old daughter. My daughter talks, you've heard her on the phone, Mingya, I can't be on the phone with you without Bella popping in and talking, talking, talking, talking. She talks quite a bit. Summer was not very verbal, actually. She wasn't really talking at a place where a five-year-old should be talking. So you'll hear Don say like,

oh yeah, we were thinking about putting her in like classes, or she was, you know,, saying some things like she would say, daddy, bring me candy when I would leave for work sometimes. But Summer didn't seem to be talking at the level that a typical average five-year-old would be talking at. And that could be for a lot of reasons. It could be a lack of education, a lack of, you know, nurturing that language at home because I don't know if she was in preschool or anything like that. It could also be a stunting of growth from abuse and when trauma from trauma and abuse. Exactly. So and then when maybe she starts to become more verbal and more vocal, it becomes a concern because now she's able to express herself more readily and she's getting to a point where she's going to be starting kindergarten in the fall, just a couple of months after she goes missing.

I want to talk about I want to talk about how this whole scenario, these these staggering statistics relate to summer. But let's take back from break. Before we were talking about just the statistics that Stephanie was laying out, both national and local statistics, really troubling numbers. As I said, I haven't had a ton of personal experience with it, but these seem in line with what I've experienced. Although my personal experience was more geared towards little boys and girls. However, let's go with the national statistics. They deal with this all the time. that this was a situation where they were allowing whoever to take her for an extended period of time where they were dropping her off something went wrong where this person never brought her back or during the incident she was killed what what do you what are people saying that are really

connected to this so do you remember that video i played for you um i think it was last episode and it was a picture of summer dancing in the rain and she was dancing in front of like a barrel and the barrel had a for sale sign on it. signal to the group of pedophiles who were in the area who knew where to find certain things and what tags to follow that this child was up for sale. And yes, I guess what I was trying to illustrate here is that in my opinion, and you know, the statistics, it's far more likely that if Summer was taken for the purposes of human trafficking, like Don Wells says, and insists that she was taken and human trafficked, the trafficking, I feel like it would have had to have been done at the hands of someone she knew and less likely than someone who just saw her on Facebook innocently and then

found out where she lived, which is kind of what Don's saying. Somebody found Summer on her mom's Facebook, somebody who didn't know her, which I don't know how that's going to happen either. But somebody who didn't know the family just saw Summer on social media. It's not like Candace Bly was an Instagram influencer and all these random strangers are just flocking to her profile. But Don thinks somebody saw Summer on social media, found out where they lived, and then snatched her. That doesn't seem very likely to me, but it feels more likely that if Summer was sex trafficked, as Don Wells insists, it was at the hands of someone she knew. And some people have speculated whether Summer was being sold to different people for the purposes of sex. Something happened with one of these people,

with either the person taking her and just not ever bringing her back or the person killing her and not bringing her back and if that did happen what could candace and don possibly have told the police like oh well actually we sold our five-year-old daughter to a random guy on the internet who wanted to rape her and he didn't bring her back or he accidentally or purposely killed her so you know sorry i hope that helps your investigation. You know, like if Summer had been scheduled to meet with one of these sick people the afternoon she went missing, that would explain why, you know, people reported seeing a red truck nearby and the driver of that red truck's never come forward and admitted to having been there. If the driver and the truck never returned, Summer's parents couldn't very well be honest about what had happened, But they could be honest enough to insist that she'd been abducted, she might have

been taken by a sex trafficker, and they were 1 million percent sure she was no longer in the area. That's kind of what the general belief on this whole trafficking thing is, if her parents are involved. I don't consider Don or Candace to be scholars. And I feel like that psychological game that you're talking about there, I just don't think they're smart enough to do scholars. And I feel like that psychological game that you're talking about there, I just don't think they're smart enough to do it. If they were involved in any way, shape or form in some type of trafficking scheme, I think they would stay as far away from that scenario as possible because they don't want to draw attention to it. That's just my opinion. Wait, you think they'd stay away from the trafficking scheme? Yeah. No, it's not a trafficking scheme. So I know you say you have limited experience,

but this happens to be one of the things that I'm obsessed with because it bothers me so, so much. And I want to know everything about it in case anybody I know is involved or a kid I know is involved. I want to know everything to look out for. For years, I've looked into this. This is very common in low-income low education areas because they are desperate for money or they're addicted to drugs or alcohol and they do this stuff to their own kids this is more common amongst the exact population that we're talking about then than any other population is what I guess I'm trying to say specifically traffickers target

these types of people because they know you're desperate You'll do anything including Like giving me your child for an hour or a night all the cases I've looked at that involve young children like this and there's hundreds There's enough that you could talk about him for four weeks It all includes these people who are contacting the parents offering money offering drugs things like that in return specifically and the parents are like oh okay so it's not like these are brain you know what a

brain brain scientist well what am I trying to say here so rain surgeons it's like I'm not a brain surgeon right now and I'm trying to explain this but it's not like you have to be a brain surgeon to you're not involved in the sex trafficking scheme. You're just a cog in it. You're giving something away and receiving something in return. It does not take intelligence. It's very, very common. Maybe I explain.

Maybe I explain myself wrong. That's I appreciate the explanation. That's not what I was saying at all. What I was saying was I don't think they're smart enough to suggest to law enforcement what actually happened. So what I was saying was, if they were involved in a trafficking scheme, which, like you just laid out, could be carried out by someone else other than them, I don't think they're smart enough to actually suggest that their daughter was the victim of something they know she was actually the victim of. You think that's smart? You think that's smart to do? Yeah. Well, I just don't think they think like that. I don't think they would be adamant about the fact that she was trafficked. I think they're coming from a place of, we feel she was abducted and then sold to someone or sold off to the people. I don't think that they would bring

that up. I think if that was the case, they would stay as far away from it as possible. I think it would be smart to stay far away from it, but... Right. And they're not smart people. Or if they really did, if someone came forward and said, I have a proposition for you. We want to take Summer for a few hours. If they really did care about her and they knew who this person was and they had a number for it, well, then you got to bite the bullet and tell law enforcement what actually happened. You got to say, hey, listen, we know she was abducted because of this. This is why we're so adamant about it. We had someone make a proposition to us. You said Candace is doing the very most

to downplay every tiny thing that might make it look like she's not a great mother. Don't you think this would be a very big thing to downplay? They're not going to bite the bullet. They're not going to come right out. What choice do they have but to lie? And you're the one that always says the best liars integrate a grain of truth. Don't you think Don Wells, somebody who's been molesting children since he was 12 years old, is going to develop like this very intricate way of lying and figuring out how to get himself out of trouble. No, he literally admitted. He literally admitted to molesting his, I mean, come on. He admitted to it.

He's like, oh. What he admitted to is a portion of what he actually did, though, right? Kind of like what he's admitting to here now is we know Summer was, we know she's been involved in trafficking now is kind of a portion of what he actually knows. It just doesn't seem right for a parent to say like we 1 million percent believe our five-year-old daughter has been sex trafficked. Like that's crazy to me that it would even occur to you unless you know something. I don't know. Like there's just something about it to me that feels icky and wrong and it doesn't vibe with me. I can see that. I can see that. I don't know. For me personally, I don't think it's any secret. I don't think this is a

likely scenario. I don't. Even though statistics are there, and we're almost near the end. We're a little bit more than halfway through. I have an opinion on what I think could have went down. It's not this and but it's just that it's just an opinion just based on my intuition from listening to this so what we've talked about so far i really don't know if it's this either right i don't you would say that i really don't know for sure like i don't know but i do know could have fooled me i do know that i find this to be far more likely than like any shit that candace and don is saying happened okay like there's no way you turned your back for two minutes

and your daughter got snatched up by some sex trafficking ring like there's absolutely no way that happened so to even introduce trafficking into the conversation is like what are we doing here why are you even talking about this? Like, what do you know that the rest of us don't know? And just the fact that I know, like I said, this is kind of my personal side hobby. Like I keep track of these cases. I have a whole Google folder full of these cases. Every time they come up, it bugs me so much. I literally want to like get a Batman suit, vigilante the shit out of anybody who sells a child into sex trafficking. I just want to like kill them all. Okay. Can I, can I throw a scenario at, can I throw a scenario at you?

I think you said it in episode one and you might've said it in episode two, but you had mentioned that Candace had had some significant substance abuse issues, correct? Allegedly. Allegedly. Let's say for the sake of this conversation, that's true. If she had been around this type of environment where she was going to the places where this type of activity was taking place, specifically methamphetamine, she might have witnessed this type of trafficking going on in the exchange for narcotics before she had children and after. So for her to think that her daughter could now be a victim of something similar, maybe that's where she's coming from. Maybe that's where Don's coming

from, where they know it's very, very prevalent in their area where there's this ring that's going on where children are being taken all the time and used for these purposes, that might be why they're so sure of it. It doesn't necessarily mean they were doing it themselves. Or conversely, she grew up seeing that because she was in it. And then she had this little girl and she's like, hey, I can do this. I can do this. I've seen this happen. I know this happens. I know what this whole kind of scenario goes and how this thing works. works, you know, like, I don't know. Yeah. We'll go with your thing. I mean, there's no thing to go with. It's, it's, as you said, even the idea that she was using substances is alleged, everything's alleged.

So we're, we're, we're coming up with a lot of, there's a lot of speculation based on things that we haven't been able to substantiate. So it's really, it's a slippery slope when you're trying to find something concrete, because a lot of the building blocks that we're using to kind of create this structure is based on alleged scenarios and speculation. So it's tough. It's tough for anybody, unless you're the actual investigator who has information to prove or disprove something we're saying. For example, if there was some type of trafficking going on, you would expect to see some type of digital evidence, whether it's by phone, by Facebook, whatever, some type of messages, whether they're in code or not. A lot of the times when we had human traffickers and drug dealers, instead of

sending text messages, they would send photos because at the time you'd have to need a different, a different warrant for that. And they would send photos with, you know, children, or they would send photos with directions or instructions, et cetera. They would be able to get warrants for all of that. They would have enough probable cause to get warrants for the parents' phones. So if they had found something that was incriminating, I'm sure either it would have leaked or we would have heard about it because it would have been arrest by now. So the fact that it doesn't appear on the surface that there was any digital evidence to suggest there was some validity to this scenario, I'm just going under the assumption that there wasn't. But then again, it could be because they just haven't released anything yet. Yeah, I think that, you know, they I think they do have something. And that's why

they're so quiet about it. And that's why they're so quiet about it. And that's why they keep saying like, everything's an option. Nobody's been ruled out yet. You know, they haven't come out even this, this far over a year in to say like the parents are ruled out as suspects. They are not persons of interest. We have cleared them completely. We've looked at every single freaking phone, tablet, computer they have. There's nothing here. Like, leave them alone. They have not done that, even with the intense, like, scrutiny from the public. So a normal law enforcement agency with, like, the crazy frenzy that this case has caused, I think if they had nothing on the parents, they would have come out and been like, dude, we got nothing on the parents. Chill out.

Like, look elsewhere. We have nothing on the parents. They have not done this. They have all their phone records. So it could be something as simple as like a Facebook message where a guy's like, oh, hey, I saw you have a barrel for sale. And Candace is like, yeah, come to my address. Here's the address. And then the police go to them and say, oh, what's up with this guy who asked you?

Oh, yeah, he just wanted to see if he could buy this thing. And he came to the house, but he left. And that was it. And, you know, there's nothing more to it. So I don't know. There's a million things that could happen, but I definitely think they got something on the parents that they haven't released because they're trying to build a case. And if they didn't, I think they definitely would have come out by now and given us some kind of concrete statement of like, leave these people alone because we've completely cleared them. So I just want to play you a quick

clip where Don's being asked, you know, what do you think happened and things like that. And he's kind of probed a little bit about, well, do you think Candace could have done something? And then he's he's asked, like, what are the possibilities? And he keeps going back to that one possibility, which is Summer was snatched into sex trafficking. We talked to him on the edge of his property where Summer disappeared. What do you think happened? What does your heart tell you? Well, I know in my heart and in my mind she was abducted. Someone snuck up there when we weren't exactly paying attention and we don't know if they come in the basement and grabbed her or if she stepped outside the

basement and was walking to her swing or something. You can see the Wells house up through the trees on the hill right here. And what the family thinks happened is that someone took Summer, brought her down this steep embankment to possibly a car that was waiting in the roadway. And right now detectives say they are looking for a red or maroon pickup truck that may have been in the area around the time that summer wells uh went missing but even the sheriff today said they have no confirmation that the truck was actually there they're not even for sure it is definitely connected questions have come up about what candace might know could she have gotten herself into a situation where she, it wasn't her fault, but... No. You know what I mean? No. No.

No, she was, she's a good mother. She loves her children. She's not going to allow any situation like that. The biggest mistake she might have made is maybe choosing some wrong friends, which is, you know, it happens. But other than that, no. No way. Do you think any of some wrong friends, which is, you know, it happens. But other than that, no, no way. Do you think any of those wrong friends could have something to do with it?

We don't know. I know you all have had some ups and downs in your past with alcohol and drugs. Do you think one of those people that came around could have? No, no, no, I can't go there. The sheriff says the Wells are cooperating, but that there's no evidence at this point that Summer was kidnapped or abducted. Is it possible that Summer's parents, Candace and Dawn, had something to do with this? Or have you ruled that out?

We haven't ruled anything out. Everything's possible. See what I'm saying, though? I feel like if he'd been like, oh, is there any chance they did this? And the police were really kind of like not going down that path. They would have been like, you know, we haven't ruled anything out yet, but they've been cooperative. Their alibis have checked out, like as far as we can tell, blah, blah, blah. Like they kind of would expound it. This dude's just like, hmm, anything's on the table. Like he's not given us anything to go on. So it's very odd. And you heard Don mention those, what did he say, wrong friends that Candace may have made. It may have been the wrong friends. And then the reporter says, do you think it could have been them?

And he said, oh, we don't know. It's just very strange. For the law enforcement officer, it could be as simple as they just don't have any exculpatory evidence. Nothing to say definitively they couldn't have conducted the crime. And the worst thing he could do without exculpatory evidence is say they a hundred percent weren't involved. And then something comes out where they were and now him and his agency look like a bunch of idiots. So unless they have something definitively that they can say there's no physical way they were involved. They're never going to say that just for the sake of everything is still on the table. All options are still open.

And to be fair, the last person to be seen with Summer, according to them, is Candace. So how can they say there's no way she could be involved when by her own words, her own statement, she was the last person to see her alive, maybe other than the children. So they're not going to say that. I don't expect them to say there's no way they were involved. I if they weren't or they were not going down that path, as I said, I would expect them to kind of be more reassuring, you know, to kind of be like, well, you know, as far as we can tell so far, like they are cooperating. They pass their polygraphs. You've seen that happen in other cases where the police don't want you to jump all over the parents because they know more than you do.

And they kind of know that's not the way they're going right now. So they kind of don't want the public to be focusing on the parents. They want them to be out there looking at other options and not like attacking these people who have lost their child. Yeah, I mean, it could be just his approach. He seems like a really kind of dry guy. Straightforward. Yeah. Every organization is different how they handle these types of things. Some will come out and be a little bit more vocal. Some will be just like this, where it's like, hey, this is what it is. What I would say just from doing these types of interviews is don't

look too deep into it. It's not, you know, it's that he's not saying much. Like we both heard what he said. All options are possible right now. He's basically saying, hey, I'm agreeing to speak with you, Brian Eaton, but I'm not giving you anything more than I'm giving anybody else. Brian Enten. That's my takeaway from it. Whatever the hell his name is. He does a good job. I shouldn't say whatever the hell his name is. He's very- He's good. I think you're thinking about that other guy from Utah the one who who gives on all he was on the Gabby Petito case his name is also Brian It's like Brian E and very similar. That's the same guy who did Gabby Petito

It's not him the guy that we just were talking about is the same guy that did Gabby Petito The guy that's interviewing that law enforcement person is the same Brian who's the face of the Gabby Petito case. 100%. No, that guy was at CrimeCon. The guy from the Gabby Petito case was at CrimeCon. Nope. So we're back now. Stephanie did a research. Stephanie, what's your findings? So I was talking about Nate Eden from East Idaho News, who was on the Lori Vallow case and the Gabby Petito case. And he was talking about Brian Enten from News Now or News Nation, who also did, I guess, make his name off the Gabby Petito case. But I didn't know anything about that dude because I like Nate Eden. Okay. Who's the guy in the clip though that that's what we're referring to? Who's the guy in the clip is Brian Enten. Brian Enten who did the what case? He did cover the Gabby

Petito case. Oh, I'm so glad you're right. Every reporter in the greater United States covered that case. So you could have just thrown a freaking orange and hit any reporter and said he talked about the Gabby Petito case. So I'm glad you're happy. What do you want, 20 bucks? Oh man, you win, you're right.

Does that make you feel good? Feels good. You're not right. You're not right though, man. Feels so good. You said Brian Eden. The guy in that, though. Feels so good. Brian Eden, the guy in that video is the guy in that video is the Gabby Petito. OK, that's right. We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.

And now we're going to talk about a crime syndicate, and I'm using air quotes. And this crime syndicate is called the Cornbread Mafia. And this is something that sort of got brought up when Don Wells and Candace Bly were on the Dr. Phil show, which actually aired, I believe, just a couple of months ago. I think it aired in June of 2022. You know, some people were wondering if the wrong friends that Don had mentioned in that previous clip, the one he said that Candace, you know, could have been running with the wrong friends. Maybe those wrong friends were connected to the cornbread mafia, especially after Candace. She kind of kept her composure throughout most of the Dr. Phil episode until she was asked about this group. And then she became very emotional and she kind of stormed off the Dr. Phil episode until she was asked about this group, and then she became very emotional, and she kind of stormed off the set. Now, according to the book, A Homegrown Syndicate's

Code of Silence and the Biggest Marijuana Bust in American History by James Higdon, quote, in the summer of 1987, Johnny Boone set out to grow and harvest one of the greatest outdoor marijuana crops in modern times. In doing so, he set into motion a series of events that Now, the cornbread mafia is just a loose term that's kind of used to describe this syndicate, which operates in rural areas, including portions of rural Tennessee. And when body language experts, Scott Rouse and Greg Hartley from, what is that YouTube? What is the behavior panel? Do you know the behavior panel? No, a lot of people mentioned them in our comments. Okay. So it's like Greg and Scott, they're with two other guys on the behavior panel and they watch like videos and they kind of break it down and their body language experts are supposed to

be like, you know, some of the best around. I know that you and I definitely agree on this. We don't buy too much into the whole body language thing. You probably maybe buy into it a little bit more than than me because you were trained for that as far as like interrogation and interviews go for police and things. But, you know, I think neither of us buy into the whole like, oh, if you look up to the left, it means you're lying without a doubt. And if you scratch your nose with your middle finger, that means you're thinking, you know, it's like very extreme sometimes. Yeah, I think we said it before. I don't think there's like a template you could apply to every

single person. But I do believe that if you develop a preset based on someone's personal characteristics, there are tells that can be taken from an individual where you can, if you have a long enough conversation with them, you can start to identify specific physical behaviors that are associated with deception or being more truthful. But it's a person-by-person basis. And then you also have to consider in other factors like, are they under the influence of anything, things like that. So there are a lot of factors surrounding it, but I do think it can be a valuable tool. And I will say the behavior panel does sort of go through like old interviews when they were looking through. So they weren't just taking the one instance. They were kind of looking to see, is this just Donwell's vernacular? Is this how he speaks? They were kind of taking into account the culture where he was from, where he grew up,

things like that. So they do seem to have a good handle on it. And Scott and Greg were on the Dr. Phil show, and they asked Don and Candace about this group, the Cornbread Mafia. And Don Wells responded that they were aware of drug activity and stuff like that in their area, but, quote, we don't associate or socialize with them, end quote. And then he made sure that Greg and Scott knew that he and Candace did everything in their power to keep their children away from potential criminal activity. However, the mention of the cornbread mafia prompted Candace to begin crying for the first time in the interview. She began sort of

like clutching at the wires of her microphone, demanding that it be taken off, and then she got up and stormed out of the room, leaving Don alone with Scott and Greg. Now, the two body language experts claimed Candace's actions could be described as insulating and running, and Scott Rouse said, quote, she insulates when she starts crying, so we can't get to her. In other words, psychologically, we can't speak to her and we see the emotion as soon as I say cornbread mafia. There, as we see, that mouth starts dragging down within seconds, and that's how long it takes to get into the brain and say, hey, this isn't good, end quote. Greg Hartley told Dr. Phil that before Candace even left the room, she began to make herself unavailable, saying, quote, she's already escaped. It's just a matter of getting out of that wire, end quote. I personally, after doing some research and actually downloading that book on Amazon, the one that goes over the history of the cornbread mafia, and I read it all. It was very interesting. I think the cornbread mafia angle is ludicrous.

I don't even know how this became what it is. I think it was definitely Candace's reaction on Dr. Phil that kickstarted everyone to wonder if there was something to it. And now everybody's got videos on YouTube like, oh, the cornbread mafia, as if this organization was like a nefarious gang who's going around and snatching children. But in my opinion, her reaction could have had nothing to do with the mention of the cornbread mafia. It could have just been a reaction of general tiring, you know, being over the questions, not wanting to continue going over everything again and again. And it just so happened to kick in at that moment. Because from what I can tell, the cornbread mafia, they're just a bunch of guys in Kentucky in like the 70s who wanted to grow weed and sell it. And this like pissed off the federal government.

You usually see money flowing from the bottom to the top. You usually see some type of identifier via tattoos, the type clothes that individuals are wearing, colors, stuff of that nature. That's not what you get out of this 80s era organization who got their start moving marijuana, not children. At this point, it's more of legend and folklore versus actual possible reality. Candace Bly's reaction was unmistakable, but the cause of her stress could be misunderstood. You know, we don't know what the triggering effect is. It could have just triggered her for something else and not necessarily their involvement with or possible involvement with her abduction or disappearance. But the organization may well exist, says our expert, but no structure exists to pull off Summer's disappearance. So I think it's more

of a code of silence versus an actual organized operation. And it does look as if the, you know, the Cornbread Mafia operations, they did stretch far out of Kentucky, even like, you know, overseas. And there definitely was a code of silence back in the 80s when they came on law enforcement's radar. There were 70 people arrested between 1987 and 1989 in relation to the Cornbread Mafia. And zero of them agreed to testify against the others in exchange for immunity or a lighter sentence, which is what they say is like a better record than the Sicilian mafia who are known to close ranks. Like nobody in the cornbread mafia talked and turned against anyone else, which is probably why they are still allowed to sort of go around today and not really be on anyone's radar. But they're definitely not kidnapping children. There's no evidence that they've even like ever

harmed anybody. They just grow weed and sell it. And there's no evidence that, you know, the cornbread mafia is connected to Candace or Don. There's no evidence that these people would graduate from selling weed to kidnapping five-year-olds just for the hell of it. And overall, these body language experts, they believe that Don Wells and Candace have nothing to do with whatever happened to Summer, even if there were some red flags presented by Candace. We really didn't have a problem with Don. He seemed like he was being honest. It went ahead and solidified our thoughts on him having nothing to do with it whatsoever,

didn't know anything about it. The experience on Dr. Phil, not all glitz and glamour for the parents of the missing five-year-old. We got in there, she got a little upset with some parts of it. She was a little emotional. Particularly, Summer's mother. There were red flags we saw with Candace where she would, it just took a little bit too long to answer some questions, and some questions just didn't sound like we got the right answer for her, which doesn't mean anything, doesn't mean that she's guilty or innocent or anything. It just, those are the, we just saw some things and heard some things that made us question the validity of her answers.

So on the Dr. Phil show, Dr. Phil says to Candace and Don, quote, statistics tell us that when children are abducted or molested or in any way victimized, it's very seldom by strangers. It's a friend of the family, a family member. It's somebody that has access to the family. Do you have any idea, any concept of anybody who would have had knowledge of your property, how to get down that road, how to do anything like that. And I'm not asking you to name somebody here, but is there anybody who comes to mind that might have seen Summer or targeted her in some way? End quote.

Don Wells responds, not that we know of. And he says they've been thinking about it constantly. And then Dr. Phil asked Candace if there was anyone who made her uncomfortable, the way they looked at Summer or how they acted around Summer, and Candace says, no one that I'm aware of. But that was not what Don Wells told the behavior panel a few months prior to this interview, where he suggests that maybe a man he had fired just the day before Summer went missing could have been responsible, And this specific person had been to their property before, and Candace, she had not liked the way this guy behaved around Summer.

Previous to the day Summer came up missing, I fired the guy because he was extremely out there. What was he doing? He was just out there. What kind of out there? I think both. I can't prove it. Did he take that well? No. He was extremely mad. Did he know where you lived? Yes.

Have you heard from or seen him since? No. Our investigators have talked to him and he's talked I guess pretty well but i mean the day after summer come up missing he called my boss and he was crying and uh saying some really oddball things um my boss has a really good memory so he remembered every word of it. Like what was he saying? Like my kids, let's see, the heels have eyes, I got too close to that family. What was the others? I got too close and my kids can't see me in the back of a police car again. See he worked for us seven years prior and he went through all the different crews.

And he worked with me for a while, and it's kind of the same thing happened. How old is he? He's like 36 now, I'd say, something more than that. You don't know where he is, huh? I know where he is. Has he been to your house with you? Well, yeah, I had him come to my house and park his vehicle so that we could ride together all the way out past Chucky, way out there somewhere, past the airport, way out there on the farmlands.

Look at that. You know, I just noticed he started getting irritated and just every little thing. You know, this man, I give him 50 percent. Who does that? Right. I give him 50%. Who does that? Give him 50% and all he has to do is show up every day. And he starts coming up with excuses why he can't make it to work and stuff.

And giving me trouble. And then the day I fired him, he was doing a pan like that there, okay? And he spent probably two hours on it. Well, it should've took 20 minutes to coat that with mud, first coat, and we were supposed to do something else, and he just jumped on that, and he was speaking under his breath,

and just carrying on, and then he comes to me with a pan of mud, and he says, there's all kind of trash in there, get it out of there, and give me some different mud. So I was like, in the world, okay and you're familiar with that kind of behavior for somebody Seemed like I looked on YouTube of all the behavior that Somebody on meth would have you know one thing I can remember what I can remember is hyperactive sure but uh yeah Yeah

But he was screaming at me, you know, just go home, I'll take care of this job, I got this job, and I told him to leave. Get off the job, don't wanna work with you one more second. And he didn't like that too well. And then he called my boss with what I was telling you, what he was saying and stuff, and called him probably 100 times.

Tried everything in the world to get me fired. Told him all kinds of things. And I told Jesse, whoops, told my boss, I said, see, that's how it is every day. Yeah. Yeah. So how many times had he seen Summer before? A few times.

And my wife was concerned about the way he was looking at her. She had red flags about that. What did she say? She said that he was just kind of looking her up and down, like, you know, it just bothered her. She mentioned that to me before all this happened. So the very next day, she comes up missing around 6.30. So Don Wells said some interesting things there,

and we're going to go to our final break break and then we're going to discuss it. Be right back. OK, we're back. So Don said this guy was extremely mad when he got fired. Right. Don thinks the guy was on meth because he, I guess, looked at a YouTube video and he was hyperactive and the day after the guy called Don's boss crying and seeing some very odd things like the hills have eyes and my kids can't see me in the back of police car again summer goes missing right like summer goes missing

the day wait did he say the day after so the day after Don fired the guy the day after summer goes missing and then the day after that the guy after Don fired the guy, the day after Summer goes missing. That's right. And then the day after that, the guy calls Don's boss saying odd things. I don't want to just go on board with what they're saying. But as much of a, I do not like Don Wells because of past things that we've spoken about. You can't forgive those things. But I do find Don to be genuine in these interviews. He's looking him in the eye. He's not really thinking about what he's going to say before he says it.

It does seem like he's coming from a place where he's doing these interviews in the, in the hope that someone that he's interviewing with is going to help him or give him something that, that they don't already have. It's like when he's divulging this information about this guy, I get the sense that he's like saying it to them because it's things that he's divulging this information about this guy, I get the sense that he's like saying it to them because it's things that he's thought about. And he's wondering if there's

something he missed or something that he should have picked up on based on what he remembers about the experience with this individual. And I feel like he's talking to these guys and he's, he's pulling from memory and not something he's making up, not something that he's using as a deterrent or like, Hey, look over here. When the the truth is over here i don't feel like there's an underlying motive behind this this topic and anything else that he's kind of discussed so again another situation where everyone is a suspect right everyone's on the table until they find out what happened so yeah could someone have had an axe to grind with Don or Candace and decided to do something to one of their children? Yeah, I guess that's possible,

but I don't think anyone's going to sit here and say, yeah, that's the most likely scenario. So you believe that this guy he fired called Don's boss and was talking about the Hills Have Eyes? I do. I do. And the reason I do is because, and I've said this numerous times in other cases, when you have someone who's given you a story and they start throwing other people into that story that can discredit or validate what they're saying, either they're really dumb or they're telling the truth because all it takes is one phone call to call Don's boss and ask them, did this happen? And so if they're lying, they're not going to bring other people into their web of lies who don't have an incentive to lie for them. So when he says like, yeah, you know, he called my boss. It almost just seemed like that

came off like, again, from memory where he's not trying to gain credibility by adding other people. That's just what happened. And he doesn't know if people from the behavior panel or law enforcement are going to watch this interview and call his bluff and call the boss and see if that happens. So it's like I said, it's one of two things, either really, really dumb and a bad liar, or there's some truth to what he's saying. And I would be willing to bet if you call Don's boss, he would have a similar story. Maybe not those exact words, like the hills have eyes or whatever, but something along the lines of where this guy wasn't making a lot of sense when he called.

Yeah, but we have to understand that the only person who can really, the only entity that can really verify this stupid hills have eyes story are the police, right? And if the police call Don's boss and Don's boss is like, yeah, that never happened. The police aren't going to get on the media and be like, Don lied to the behavior panel on YouTube about his boss saying this guy said the hills have eyes. That's not going to happen. The cops are just going to store it away because it's not enough, right? Not even close enough to arrest him or say he did something nefarious, but it shows he's a liar and that's not going to be enough to waste their time to, you know, put that out anywhere. So he could very well have completely lied about it and we would never know. And he would know that the police are not going to do is expose you more to the people you're trying to hide from, which is law enforcement, right? There's no need to add that wrinkle to the story.

If it's a fabricated story, just say, he said it to me. He said, the hills have eyes to me. Who can substantiate that? There's only you and the other person. Why add someone else in there where you could end up screwing yourself? It just seems like an unnecessary risk to take if you're trying to create a lie. So that's what I'm going off of is basically if it's not true, keep it between you and the person you're lying about. And that way they can't confirm or deny anything you're saying. You start adding in bosses and colleagues and friends and family. Hey, listen, that's your funeral. If you want to lie about it, that's going to be the thing that hangs you down the road, hopefully, if he is involved.

I just feel like that's kind of Don's thing. This is what he does. I have not bored you with hours and hours and hours of footage of Don going on every random YouTuber's channel and lives and saying the most ludicrous things and being drunk and just shooting off at the mouth and saying things that literally he will then contradict five minutes later. But it just seems to be kind of what he does. And I know that you kind of believe him. I don't believe this dude at all. As far as I can throw him, there's something so oily about him, so manipulative. I think he's far smarter than anybody gives him credit for I think he's been lying for a long time I think he's an expert liar and I think he uh he's just kind of used to it I think he kind of

lives there because yeah it did seem like he wasn't making it up on the spot it did seem like he was recalling from memory I agree with you but if he's already come up with this story of what he's gonna say and he's got these elaborate stories already created, it wouldn't be like he was recalling from a memory, right? If he's not. Not that I love it. I hate this story. But the fact that when confronted about the child molestation of his sister, when it's basically her word against his, instead of saying, that didn't happen, which is 99% of my experience with people like this. He's like, Hey man, it did happen, but it's her fault.

If I'm the detective in that room, I'm like, thank you. That's like I said, in the last interview, uh, the last episode we did, that's enough to get an arrest warrant because he's admitting it. So he, he, he, to me, he doesn't seem like that good of a liar, but, but I think a lot of people in the comments might agree with you. They might say, hey, man, I think this guy's got it all planned out. But seeing him admit on a podcast or a YouTube video that he basically committed child molestation, he doesn't seem like he's well prepared. But he could have been drunk, I guess. I don't know. I find for the most part, again, I can separate the two. I think he's a scumbag, but I also think he's telling the truth in this situation. I think him being honest about the molestation was a mentality thing. I truly think he didn't think there was anything wrong with it, which is terrifying. He literally just said, what do I care about admitting this?

I didn't do anything wrong. So that's more concerning than anything. But Don also mentions that there's like other shady individuals around where he and his family lived who were involved with drugs and they were constantly like invading their property and stealing things. Have you ever had any scares before? I mean, around your kids and that kind of thing? Well, we've had people come up, you know, and say, oh yeah, I was looking for my dog or my horse or, you know, for various things before. With the children in the yard or? Yeah.

During that? Yeah, I've had people come up, you know, on horses, all kinds of things, you know. When was the last time that happened? You know what, since summer's been gone, we haven't had nobody around there except for, I mean, we had that one incident with the red truck that got hung up on the ditch there.

There was actually, I asked the police if I could take pictures and he said, no problem Mr. Wells. So when was the last time before Summer was missing that you had people up at your place? That somebody showed up, you know what I mean? I'm not sure. It's probably been a long time so I can't really remember, but I'm always gone. I'm not sure. It's probably been a long time, so I can't really remember, but I'm always gone. I'm always working, and I don't know these people, but I mean... Does Kansas know them? No, no. I mean, all I know is the people I work for, and they've become, like, they're the only ones I know.

Yeah, so are you isolated? You can't really tell by the pictures. It seems isolated, but we do have neighbors, you know. And then you've got the drug thing going on. And where we live at, you've got certain groups of people, and I'm not going to mention them by name, but you've got these boys and those boys that are all related, and they think that they run everything. And a lot of people for years have run moonshine out there probably manufactured meth and other stuff like that and I think that

they are the bloods and the crips of the hillbillies and we have where I live there's something very similar cornbread cornbread behind me yeah that runs from here to yeah through Georgia yeah and i take that they take that name and that title very seriously yeah yeah so have you had problems with them personally well i you know we've always tried to stay away from that kind of activity and stuff and stay in church and stuff like that and stay positive so i always felt like they looked at us as a target. And we've had people steal our dogs and leave their mutts for as long as we've been there. We've had people come up and just take various things, steal our gas in the middle of the night or whatever. And there's only certain

kind of people that are up all day and night and stuff like that. How close to you are they? I'd say they're all the way around, you know, but I don't know. I mean, I just know a few people, you know, personally. Is it easy to just drive by your house, come by? Well, they have to go by my house to get to one area. Yeah. I mean, is's a lot of traffic out there yeah so when things are you know when stuff's going on there's a lot of traffic do we

do we know if these these two interviewers are they are they former law enforcement um i don't i don't know i bet i bet there's some type of law enforcement so the reason i say and i was you guys couldn't see me but i was smiling smiling. Did you pick up why I was smiling? Which part? You seemed like right. It was near the end. It was near the end. So it's one of those things where these investigators are trying to find ways.

They have like, before you go into the interview, you have like bullet points, things you definitely want to hit on, but you want to bring them up in a way where it just seems kind of passive because you don't want to tip off the person you're interviewing that this is something you're actually concerned about or interested in because that may cause them to kind of clam up a little bit, not say too much. You want to make it seem like it's just a conversation between the boys, right? So at one point they're talking to him and one of the investigators, and I apologize, I don't know their names, says something like, oh, yeah, you know where I'm from. We have those cornbread mafia, those cornbread mafia guys. He probably has nobody near him that has that.

But he's just bringing it up. Like, and then if you know, I think it was them. It was them who had initially brought it up months before to Don. And then Don sort of was like, oh, yeah, they take that name seriously. Don's the one that glommed onto it because the behavior panel has said like, they know, they do, they know about the cornbread mafia. The other one was like, oh, it stretches all the way from like here to Georgia. Right. And then Don is just like, yeah, they take that name real seriously. Like he had any idea what they were talking about. He didn't. Yeah. There's something there where they,

I don't know if they had interviewed someone else or saw something online about court, like maybe this was going around, but they had but there was a purpose to that comment where it's like they wanted to get that out there. Because if you notice, they had like three or four more questions about the Cornbread Mafia media. It wasn't like a passing comment. It was to just transition the conversation to the topic of the Cornbread Mafia. And it might've been just something that during their research, they had saw something where

that was like a speculation going on amongst the community members. So they probably thought, whether this is true or not, Don already knew about them. And he was maybe not wanting to bring, because remember, he's like, oh, I don't want to bring certain groups up by name. And they're like, yeah, no, we completely understand. So we have this group where we're from called the Cornbread Mafia. We're going to call them out by name. Yeah. And so you don't have to say it. We don't understand, but we're going to say a name.

I hate when people do that in conversation. It's so awkward, by the way, like when they're trying to get something from you, you know, and then they just kind of like casually bring it up as if that wasn't their whole point to begin with. It's very awkward. That was a good interview. I got to probably watch some of the interviews. I would bet that they're probably former law enforcement or something because they're kind of similar to Chris that we had in the first two episodes where they have this cadence to them and they have a direction where it's not completely obvious. But if you're listening to the way they're asking things and in the order in which they're asking them, there's a purpose. There's a rationale behind it. It's interesting. And they keep him on track and they get him back on they're trying to take the interviewee down the path and then when he

starts to get too far off they'll they'll kind of like probably they probably have passed law enforcement or worked in you know like police stations as a body language expert or something like that yeah a consultant yeah definitely yeah no they're definitely you and if you listen you can tell you can tell the destination where they're trying to get to. And in many cases, the interviewee is just like, oh yeah, man, we're just talking. But if you listen to Don Wells in that clip, right, you would think that this area where he lived, it was just filled with moonshiners and meth cookers, the bloods and the crypts of the hillbillies, I believe he said. But- Yeah, that was a good quote.

It's like he had that ready or something. Yeah. But Sheriff Ronnie Lawson, the sheriff of Hawkins County, he told Action News 5, quote, I've heard rumors that maybe there is a drug dealer on that road, but it's just like anywhere. Ben Hill Road isn't any different than any other road in Hawkins or any other county or even Knox County. We all have drug problems, but no, that's not that problem. That's not correct either. No, it's a dead end road. So there's very little traffic, if any, end quote. So I think what Don was trying to say, he wasn't trying to say there's like actual traffic, like cars. I think he meant like when there's something going on, which is what he

said. Yeah, when there's stuff going on, there's a lot of traffic, meaning like when there's a buy happening or a drug deal happening, then there's a lot of traffic. But I mean, in general, this area of Tennessee is full of drugs anyways. You know, it's very well known that there's drugs all over the place. But I guess what the sheriff is trying to say is like not there any more than any other area. Like there's not this drug house that we know about. There's not these like, like as Don was trying to kind of say, like, oh, the boys and they're all related and they're the Bloods and the Crips. There's not like this huge like gang, the Sons of Anarchy just hanging around on Ben Hill Road, you know, waiting to to capture Summer Wells. And I'm not even sure why drugs would automatically be connected to the disappearance of a five-year-old girl in anyone's

mind. Well, I mean, it could, if there was a drug house that was on in the area, what you'll have is you may have people from outside that community coming in there, picking up their drugs and leaving. And so this opens up a whole new group of individuals that are potential suspects where they're coming in and going out very quickly. And it's harder to track them because essentially they're only coming there for a few moments and then leaving. And yeah, in that situation, could one of them had seen Summer playing outside one day as they're passing through? Of course. But what the investigator is saying here is, listen, there might be something that goes on in that area where it might be a transaction here and there, but there's not any

known drug houses in that community where they would have a purpose to be driving up and down Ben Hill Road to get their methamphetamine, to get their weed, to get whatever. So the way it's being depicted is not accurate. It's not an accurate depiction of what the area actually is. And even if they were driving up and down Ben Hill Road, how would they see summer playing outside? They wouldn't see summer playing outside unless she had gotten down to that road. Once again, we've gone over this multiple times. Even in the fall, you can't really see up to that house, even when the foliage is less dense. So like I said, yeah, I was thinking maybe Don and Candace owed some drug dealers money and maybe the drug dealers took Summer as collateral. Otherwise, I don't see why a drug dealer would randomly hunt down a child to take Summer and maybe sell her for money for more drugs, or they're just a nefarious scumbag and they like little girls. But the more we expound on this theory, the more

far-fetched it gets, because we would then have to believe that a random drug addict knew where to find Summer and knew someone who would give them drugs or money in return for a little girl, which there's a whole network of things happening here. You know, like you always say, the simplest answer is usually the right one. But none of these answers seem all that simple right now. I'm not feeling super hopeful that Summer will ever be found or that we'll ever know what happened to her. And I really don't see how this drug angle plays in. Even if there were a ton of, you know, drug deals happening in that area, they're not

happening in a place where any of those people would know about summer unless they wandered up that hill towards her house and saw her playing there one day and like like we were saying earlier in the episode became obsessed with her kept coming back to that area waiting for their moment but then once again i feel like you'd see the same vehicle in the area over and over again and that would be reported on you know some neighbors might say hey we've seen the same red truck or the same black car that was parked at the bottom of the road that leads up to Summer's house several times leading up to her disappearance. Maybe that has something to do with it. It's just not really a crime of opportunity situation where

that house is located. That's all I'm trying trying to say so what's your final thoughts preface it by saying shot in the dark this is just me based on listening to the last three parts looking at the interviews kind of digesting what we do know and and mainly going off of that that video that short little video of summer sleeping in the back seat because I believe that to be credible and truthful. And it seems like that was actually what was taking place. It looks like the grandma thought it was a photo and it was actually a video. I believe all that. So my guess would be Don is not directly involved. Don was at work. I think the truth lies with Candace and maybe even potentially her mother. Her grandmother was on the property who appears to have kind of separated herself from candace

Correct. You had told me that I don't know if that was on camera off. Yeah, I told you that off camera Yeah, she left the state. Yeah, she's kind of separated herself I feel like the truth lies with candace and I feel like the truth whatever happened to summer happened on that property Within a certain window of time before don get home. I really feel like Don is out there chasing his tail and that's not me pinning him as a victim at all. I can't say it enough. Not a fan of Don. Focusing on this situation, I feel like there's also been some dissension between those two. I seen a couple comments from our people where he has said some things passively like you know i don't know if she knows more whatever it doesn't sound like whatever happened is a united front there i feel like don's going off what candace has told him

but based on candace's behavior in these interviews and how spaced out she can look in some of them i feel like there's a lot running through her head. And I think she knows more than she's told law enforcement so far. It could have been an accident. I'm not going to go as far as speculating whether it was an accident or intentional. But I do feel like the truth lies with Candace and maybe her mother. And that might explain the separation between the two. Her mother might have looked out for her daughter, even though she didn't agree with what happened just because she didn't want to see her daughter go to jail. i've always said from the beginning even before any of this information came out early on when this was happening a year ago at the very least

the most benign solution or the most benign answer is there there was more than two minutes that candace had her eye off summer right i've always said that from the beginning agreed they're much longer i think right so just like the going into the grocery store for five minutes two minutes eye off Summer, right? I've always said that from the beginning. Agreed. Much longer, I think, right? So just like the going into the grocery store for five minutes, two minutes having your eyes off her and something happens, not a realistic timeframe, which leads me to believe it was probably far longer. I don't know what Candace was doing in the meantime, but this definitely could have given Summer the opportunity to wander off. I think it's more likely that she wandered off than somebody came up on the property and took her. I just think it's far more likely

that she wandered off. None of the dogs barked. No dogs were running at some strange person climbing up there. None of the boys saw anything or heard anything, allegedly. Grandma and Candace didn't see or hear anything you would have heard a car you know pulling up if they pulled up the driveway you would have heard the car you would have saw the car something none of that happened so we have to assume that if somebody took summer they took her down that path through the woods right that's the only way down to the street where a car would have had to have been parked waiting either with somebody else in there or just parked and waiting for the person to come back split second you didn't hear summer

scream you know the police are saying that scream that the neighborhood was unfounded not connected so it would have had to have been a very split second they would have had to come up grab her put their hand over her mouth and run unless it was somebody she knew and you know don did say in the behavior panel interview he thinks maybe his sisters came and took Summer because they were worried about him molesting her. He mentioned that the day after Summer went missing, his sisters, his half sisters or his stepsisters, I mean, they had called the police and told the police, hey, we know what happened to Summer. We believe that, you know, she was hurt by her father. And he said maybe they came and kidnapped her and stole her to keep Summer safe. I don't think that's a very, like, plausible theory.

That would be crazy. I think by now they would have said something to the police and said, hey, we have her. But who knows? So if it was somebody Summer knew, maybe they would have been able to say, hey, Summer, come with me, et cetera, et cetera, without much noise or hassle. But otherwise, I think that Candace had her cetera, et cetera, without much noise or hassle. But otherwise, I think that Candace had her eyes off of Summer for much longer than two minutes. Summer may have wandered away, very similar to the Dior Coons case. If she wandered away, there are a lot of things out in that Tennessee wilderness, that forested area that's around her house. There

are bears, there are poisonous snakes, things like that. But you still would think that some sign of Summer would have been found once the police showed up and the helicopters came in and the scent dogs came in. They would have picked up her scent somewhere in the wilderness, even if she had been attacked by a wild animal. So I'm not really sure. But I know for a fact, allegedly, don't come for me, this is just what I think, for a fact, that it was way more than two minutes that Candace didn't see Summer for and anything could have happened. And it throws the whole timeline off at this point. No, I agree. And that's where I'm getting at. I think there's something more there, which may explain why Candace is saying it was only a couple of minutes,

because maybe it was a couple hours. And maybe there's this internal guilt that if she had been more present, if she had checked on some or sooner, none of this would have happened. And it could be as simple as, like you just said, she wanders off into the woods and something gets her, but that wouldn't have happened. I said this, I think last episode, there's still a level of responsibility there that falls at the feet of Candace. This is a sign of neglect. It's a sign of not paying attention, not being present. And she has shown other examples of that. So I hope for her sake, and I hope for everyone's sake, that is what happened, where it was just

something where she wasn't paying attention. And it's not more on the line of some of the scenarios you gave tonight. Because I mean, that's just absolutely the worst. And you try to believe the best in everyone. So I hope that's not the case. But for everybody involved, I hope we get some answers soon, one way or another, because at the end of the day, right now, she's still out there. I know you had said that you don't have a lot of hope she'll ever be found. And I don't blame you. I can see where you're coming from.

But you got to hope. You got to hope that we're wrong and that there's something we don't know. And God, would I love to find out that she was taken by a family member because of possible abuse. I mean, that would be not the right way to go about it, but would be a nice turn of events in the story to find out that Summer's still alive and well. So I hope for everyone involved, we get some answers soon because I know this was a case that captivated a lot of people.

And there's a lot of you out there that are watching on YouTube, listening on audio, who are really, really focused on this case and really involved in it. I got a lot of DMs from you guys about this case, really passionate about it. So we're all parents. We all – this is everyone's worst nightmare, right? So hopefully we get some updates and there's some good ones sooner than later. I just feel like it's going to go the way of like a JonBenet Ramsey kind of case, you know, where there's so much speculation,

so much rumors, but you can't prove anything and you literally go, you know, every single day for the rest of your life not having the exact answer. Because at this point, somebody would have to confess. And what's their motive to confess if the police don't even have enough to make an arrest right there's there's no motive for them to confess besides morality and being a good person and i think that ship has sailed only hope we have is that it was more recent and that we hope the fbi and the

tbi did a good job of preserving any evidence that was found maybe something that they can use later to connect it to someone wishful thinking but we do appreciate you guys sticking with us for these last three parts we'll have a new case coming to you next week uh if you want to go check out criminal coffee we're coming near the end of the month you can actually start weighing in the comments below if you want um on our social media and on our youtube channel if there's certain organizations or families in need that are currently going through a situation where they're involved in an investigation or need funds for a certain tool or technique or tactic that we can maybe help with, we're going to be donating very soon. We want you to be part of that. So check out criminalcoffeeco.com if you

want to learn more about it. Follow us on social media, Crime Weekly Pod. And we will see you guys next week. Be safe. Have a good weekend. And we will talk to you soon. Thank you guys. Bye.