Crime Weekly - S3 Ep111: Daniel Robinson: A Father's Fight to Find His Son (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

The rugged Sonoran Desert covers approximately 100,000 square miles and includes most of the southern half of Arizona, southeastern California, most of the Baja California peninsula and much of the Mexican state of Sonora. It is the hottest desert in both the United States and Mexico, and there is a lack of water and forageable food to be found there. Between the hot day temperatures, the freezing night temperatures, and intimidating predators such as mountain lions and bobcats prowling around, the Sonoran Desert is the last place you would want to venture out into without proper clothing or supplies, but it appears that this is exactly what 24-year-old geologist Daniel Robinson did on June 23rd, 2021. Reportedly, Daniel drove into the desert and was never seen again, although his vehicle was discovered on its side in a ravine almost a month later. But during the investigation, details began to emerge that added mystery to this tragedy; Reports from friends and family of Daniel’s odd behavior in the days leading up to his disappearance, all of Daniel’s pictures on Instagram being erased around the time he went missing, and evidence from Daniel’s vehicle that suggested foul play. Dozens of searches have been conducted for Daniel over the past 19 months, and although human bones and human remains have been uncovered, none of them led back to Daniel Robinson. Link to February 25th search in Arizona -- https://pleasehelpfinddaniel.com Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: Helix Helix is offering up to 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners! Go to HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly. Pretty Litter Go to PrettyLitter.com/crimeweekly to save 20% on your FIRST order. HelloFresh Go to HelloFresh.com/crimeweekly65 and use code crimeweekly65 for 65% off plus free shipping. MagellenTV Claim your SPECIAL OFFER for MagellanTV here: https://try.magellantv.com/crimeweekly Cerebral OUR LISTENERS WILL RECEIVE 50% OR MORE OFF YOUR FIRST MONTH OF THERAPY BY GOING TO CEREBRAL.COM/CRIMEWEEKLY. 

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We help, you save. Valid through 615. While supplies last, selection varies by location. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So today we are picking up with part two and the final part of the Daniel Robinson case before we dive in. Is there anything that you want to say? No, real quick. We were just talking about it while we were recording the ads for this episode. We know you guys love the ads. I'm kidding. We do love the ads because they sponsor the channel. They allow us to do what we're doing every week and

to offer it to you guys for free. So we're all about it. And we hope that you guys, if you're looking for products similar to what we're, we're talking about in these episodes that you do use them and you use our code. Cause that lets them know that you're coming from us. So a lot, I get a lot of messages from you guys about certain sponsors. Like, Hey, you were talking about this last episode. What was the code for it? I've been doing it for a while, but it's my fault. I never mentioned it. If you click the description box for either audio or YouTube, you just scroll down. It says ads, every ad or sponsor that we talk about in each episode will be right there. It's kind of a repeat of the call to action that I give at the end of every ad. And it's the link right there for you with the code. So it's really self-explanatory, super simple to do. So if you're looking for a product,

even if you're not looking for it right away, but then down the road you are, if you're like, hey, I remember it was in that episode, all you got to do is go back to it. It's right there for you. And again, these guys are sponsoring us. It helps grow the channel. It helps us allow, allows us to do what we do. So we appreciate it. And we know sometimes you guys get a little annoyed by it, but it's a necessary evil when you're doing this and you're offering it for free every week. Yes, absolutely. Sorry if I'm a little distracted. My mom had surgery today and she's on like painkillers or something and she's texting me.

And my phone keeps going off and I feel like I need to answer her because she's in the hospital. I'm glad you're mom. That's fair. But she said, I just called you and Bruce answered. It must be the drugs. That's what she said. So I had to answer. I want what she's on. I want what she's on.

I had to say, who's Bruce? So now I need to know. But anyways, let's dive in. I'm going to give you just a quick two-second overview of what this case is about. 24-year-old field geologist Daniel Robinson was last seen by a co-worker leaving a remote desert job site in Arizona on the morning of June 23, 2021. Reportedly, Daniel drove further out into the desert, and he was never heard from again, and by 7 p.m. that same evening, he'd been reported missing, and a search of the desert began, but authorities found no sign of Daniel until almost a month later on Tuesday, July 19th, when a rancher found a 2017 blue Jeep Renegade overturned in a ravine less than four miles southwest from the place that Daniel was last seen. So that brings us up to speed with what we covered in episode one.

And I mean, still, if you haven't seen or heard part one of this, you definitely should because there was a lot of buildup and a lot of context given in that episode, which will allow all of this to make more sense. One thing I wanted to say before we dive in, because I read the comments when we can, I know Stephanie does as well. We had some people weighing in about the potential situation with Daniel mentally. What could be going on? There were definitely some people, some doctors in there talking about it. People with PhDs. We love that.

Respond. Let us know what you think. That's what the conversations are supposed to be like in the comments section. Also, a quick shout out to Kendall and Josh. They had on mile higher. They actually interviewed David about this, this whole case, Stephanie, we didn't say it last episode, but I think it's important to note. You did also email David as well before we ever recorded any of these episodes. He may not be interested, which is totally fine. He's

very busy. He's got a cause. He's got a search coming up. I don't think it's anything intentional, but just so you guys know, we did reach out to him to say, Hey, we're covering it. Anything you want us to cover or talk about. So, you know, and that, that invite always stands. If he reaches out, we can always discuss with him what's going on because from what people were saying, he had, he had spoken about some of the things that we mentioned. And I know that we talked about it in the episode. A lot of what we're pulling from is the police reports. So when we talk about different things as far as what David said, what he didn't say, we're going off the police reports. And obviously David is a lot closer to it than we are, but we're trying to stay as factual

as we can as far as the police reports are concerned. If those are in question, David would know better than us. But I will say just from listening to you and also reading some of the reports myself, going back and looking at them, it does look like some of the information in the police report is specifically from Caitlin's phone. Now, there's some things out there that say she might have deleted things. Personally, I don't know why she would have. I think those things could be recovered even if she did delete them.

This didn't happen that long ago. The technology is there. Even though you're just in case you guys didn't know this, even though you're deleting the text messages from your phone, you can still recover those messages just because you're deleting them from your phone doesn't mean they're gone forever. So I would like to think that law enforcement, once they obtained Daniel's phone and also Caitlin's phone, they were able to kind of compare and cross reference and come up with what they came up to. But I did hear the comments. We hear you. David definitely disputed some of the things that were out there from from Caitlin and things like that. So we always implore you guys go out there, listen to different podcasts, do your own research, read up on your own articles And obviously listen to Mile Higher and check out David's interview. And you're all independent thinkers. You're all adults. You can all come to your own conclusions. We just want to find Daniel, just like everybody else.

So we're putting out there what we have. And it's on you guys to fill in the picture with whatever other sources of information you want to fill your minds with as far as this case is concerned or any other case for that matter. So first of all, I don't understand where this whole allegation that Caitlyn deleted things off her phone is coming from. I'm going to tell you outright. I'm going to tell you how I feel about this outright and how I feel about this is Caitlyn wasn't a suspect. She never gave her phone to the police. Why would she? She wasn't suspected of killing him. So there's no reason for her to give her phone to

the police. She sent them screenshots of the text that she felt was relevant as she is entitled to do so because she doesn't have to send the police every single text on her phone since she's not a suspect in a murder or like a criminal investigation. Okay. So number one, I don't know where this allegation that she deleted things off. And if she did delete things off her phone, so what? She can't fabricate things. So the texts that she sent were validated by Daniel's own phone, which was found in his vehicle when it was found. And then they compared the text conversation that he had with Caitlin. So whatever texts we read to you, they were accurate. They weren't fabricated. And if there was other texts with other context, et cetera, et cetera, that's great. I don't care what else Caitlin is talking to Daniel or anyone else about. What I know is that Caitlin said, stop showing up to my house unannounced. He didn't. And then she said, I don't hate you, but like basically you're scaring me. Please stop doing this. You know, she has the right to do that. And I don't understand why this becomes a like, what is Caitlin doing? Like she has something to defend herself for. She doesn't have anything to defend herself for. She's not a suspect in a criminal investigation and she's entitled to the privacy of her texts. But we do know that the texts that we read that were included in the police report were accurate and real and did happen. And that's really all I

need to know, honestly. Am I wrong? One other thing was the canopy. It's actually part of the Jeep from what people were saying, which totally made sense. As soon as I saw it in the comments, I'm like, OK, that makes a lot of sense. So it was hot out there or sunny or whatever. And so he used the canopy from his truck or whatever to kind of maybe shade them. And he was trying to get that back. So I was like, what is this canopy? It was a door dash thing. But in fact, it makes a lot of sense. He had the Jeep and it was from that. So I'm glad we got that question answered. Yeah. I piggyback off what you said. I think you're right. I don't think she's a suspect here. And there are definitely

things in Daniel's behavior that are not okay. And those things are not being disputed. I think the big thing was like whether he said he loved her or not. And I agree with you in a sense of like, it doesn't really matter. It does matter. It does matter. He did say that it's in the text. Yeah. You're missing what I'm saying though. What I'm saying is David saying that, oh, he didn't say that to me, but now did he say it in the text? At the end of the day, as you just said, there's, there's a clear chain of conversation where he's showing up unannounced without permission. That's not being disputed. So in and of itself is is problematic and we're it's again it's not to say like daniel's doing anything wrong but but the overall well we don't condone

what he did there but the fact is he's he's missing right now so we're trying to figure out if if someone hurt him if someone took him or if he was in a bad mental state where he might have made some decisions on his own that led to the position he's in right now. And it would be unprofessional of us not to include these factors, which are not okay. And they happen so relatively close to when he disappeared. So are they important? Yeah, obviously they're important. And that's, that's, that as an investigator, you would not be doing your job if you didn't factor this in to your investigative process.

So, again, it's no bash session. It's it's it is what it is. It's not it's not OK. But other people that I know, I'm sure everyone does. They sometimes good people make bad decisions. That could be the case here. Or as you laid out last episode, there could be something deeper going on that Daniel had no control over. So, again, we're pointing it on that Daniel had no control over. So again,

we're pointing it out because it's in the reports. And when we're trying to figure out what happened to him, this is obviously an important element of that whole investigatory process. Yeah. And I mean, like, let's be honest, whether he got himself missing or somebody else got him missing, it doesn't change the fact that we want him to be found. It's not relevant. Like, oh, he got himself missing, so we don't care as much. That's not what's happening here. And it would blow my mind that anybody would be like, oh, there's no foul play, so I don't care if anybody finds this person. I don't think anybody is saying that, but it would be negligent and not factual to leave out all of Daniel's odd

behavior in the days leading up to his mysterious disappearance. That would be ludicrous to do. So we put it in there. And I personally think that it is relevant. I don't think that he was like this creep that just had no self-awareness and didn't care about people's boundaries. Nothing about his life that I've learned about him and his family has done a lot of talking about him. Nothing I've learned about him would tell me that he's that kind of person. So it does speak to his mental state. And if we want to, if there may be some people who want to ignore that, okay, but I don't want to ignore that because if we truly want him found, we have to factor in everything. That's how these things work, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. Again, family thoughts and prayers to the family that I hope they find them sooner than later. And I understand where David's coming from as a father. Obviously, it's probably never easy to hear anything that your child did that may not be what you would want them to do. And now that he's missing, it's going to, you could probably be even more protective of him because Daniel can't speak for himself. So I have no issue with it.

Zero actually. And I have no issue with you guys bringing it up in the comment section. In fact, I implore, like I said, I like it because there are other people who do a great job. Kendall and Joshua are two of them. And you know,

they might cover something or ask a question that we didn't, or you're getting that firsthand perspective from David himself. That's great. That's valuable information. So, and that's what the true crime community should be. It should be a sharing of information. So in totality, you get the whole picture and there might be something that you hear on here you don't agree with, or you have more questions about.

And if we don't answer it, you may go over there and get it, or you may have to dig even deeper on your own. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's the whole point. So keep doing what you're doing. Appreciate you guys pointing it out in the comments. Thank you for finding out what the canopy meant because that was bothering me. So appreciate you on that one. Yeah. Actually, before we dive into like the meat of the episode, let's take our first break and we'll be're back. So Daniel's Jeep was found on its passenger side on the downward slope of the ravine facing northwest, and it had sustained significant damage to the lower front end and

to the top of the windshield and roof. One piece of the Jeep's removable black roof was on the ground, partially wedged under the front of the vehicle, the driver's front window was shattered, and all the interior airbags appeared to have been deployed. The damage and state of the Jeep was consistent with the vehicle being involved in an accident where it had gone through a front impact before rolling and landing on its side. The Buckeye Police Department would bring in San Tan Recon to reconstruct the accident, and Daniel's father, David Robinson, would bring in his own expert for a second opinion, Jeff McGrath, Phoenix-based vehicular crimes investigator, and as expected, both parties returned with

different results and different interpretations of those results. Experts again, right? We talked about this a couple of, it's always, there's a human element to all of them. I'm not saying which one's right, but depending on who you're working for, depending on what you're working with, this is the thing where you have to take this whole expert analysis with a grain of salt. It doesn't mean they're not experts, but unfortunately, many experts are not able to separate what the facts are telling them from what the people that hire them are hoping you're going to find. Yeah. But that brings us to the question of, how do we know? How do we know what's right then? You don't.

You don't. That's what's even the point.'m like so nihilistic at this time. Like what even is the point then? Let me ask you a question. How many cases in all your research, you've been doing this how long? Three years? Longer than that. Okay. Four years, right? Five years, whatever it is. How many of these cases have you've done where you've had to give two expert opinions on opposing sides have you how many times have you got a single one every single one man so you get what i'm saying it's like it's just like it's it is what it is and i that's why i always go back to it's not even about the facts it's about who's more believable right like who puts on a better presentation because that's usually the way the jury goes and i see see it all the time. We can have a case that we've personally worked. Mostly I did narcotics where we'll put on like this flawless case, like pictures,

photos, videos of the hand to hands, you name it. And someone on their side will have an interpretation for it that in their mind makes sense. And they'll put it on as if it's a hundred percent factual, like, Oh, he was just giving him a handshake and they were exchanging numbers. Like, you know, because they're going to hang out later. But it's like, yeah, but they didn't hand each other money. Well, yeah, he owed him $20. So it's like, however you want to look at it is the way you're going to perceive it. But it's important to hear both sides so that we can say, okay, you know what?

That one sounds more believable to me. And it's on us, your own personal opinion to make that decision. We can't do it for you. Oh my God. What I wouldn't get for some objective truths. Okay. Good luck. Just once in a while, could I have a good old fashioned objective truth that we can

just compare everything against? This is exhausting, right? But yeah, I mean, even with this case, I don't know who's right. I don't know anything about vehicle accident reconstruction. And these two people, Santan Recon and then Jeff McGrath, they're supposed to be the experts and they come to two completely different solutions or speculations, and it's just exhausting. But I'm going to start with the official report. And that report stated that along with the interior airbags being deployed, the headlights in the Jeep were set to auto, and the shifter was in drive. And it appeared that Daniel or whoever had been driving the Jeep had also been

wearing their seatbelts at the time of impact. There was no blood observed inside the vehicle, but they did find a backpack with Daniel's work laptop and other documents inside, as well as Daniel's Samsung Galaxy S10, his school ID, toe straps, an upside down hard hat with some rain water inside of it, and his vehicle and apartment keys. There was also several bottles of unopened water and a basketball found in the Jeep as well. And this water to me is very important, this unopened water. I mean, his cell phone being left in the car and the unopened water is very important because if you're looking at it from the perspective of this was foul play, then it makes sense. If Daniel was forced out of his car or left his car because it wasn't his

free will, not of his own volition, yeah, maybe he would leave his cell phone and all that water behind. But if he crashed his car, was in his right mind and said, let me go walking out into the desert to see if I can find like civilization or help, you'd think he'd bring his cell phone, even if he didn't have service in that specific area, right? You'd still think he'd bring his cell phone because as he's walking, he can find higher ground or maybe he'll get some service and he can call someone. And you definitely think he would have taken that book bag, maybe dumped out his work laptop and filled that book bag with bottles of water that he had in his car. So either he didn't leave his car of his own free will and he was forced out or when he left his car, he wasn't in the right state of mind. And things like having a cell phone and bringing bottles of water out into the desert weren't super important to him at that moment. I'm with you. I would think that if you're coherent and you realize you've been in an

accident and you understand the conditions you're in, survival mode. Cell phone, which could have GPS, even if it's not connected to the internet, sometimes maps are downloaded directly to the phone. And obviously water, two important things. And even if you had kind of ventured out to get a kind of a take on your bearings of where you were located, you would probably take a reference point for where your car was so that you don't go too far. And if you need to, you can go back to it to grab those items. So something happened, something happened either, as you said, he was not under his own free will. He was being held by someone. He wasn't able to go back to his car or something

happened out there where he got in the accident. Maybe he is slightly injured. Maybe something happens, even though there's no blood, maybe there's some internal injuries that can happen. Everyone looks okay on the outside, but internally- Or a head injury or something like a bump. Exactly. They just had a concussion. They're not doing well where he gets out of the car to try to Or a head injury or something like a bump. there. But if that's the case, I think most people would say he's probably going to be found relatively close to the car. How far could he have gone before he realized where he was and realized he was not close enough to the car to get back? So you would expect with all these searches that have been done, the last known location for Daniel would have been that Jeep and he would be found relatively close to it. And that's not the case. And I think that's what has a lot of people scratching their heads. Yeah. If you were

in your right mind and you were thinking clearly, you wouldn't wander too far from the car and you would definitely bring some water with you. And people could say, oh, well, maybe he did bring water with him. Yeah. Maybe he did bring like a bottle, but how much water could he carry just on his person? He had a backpack in the car. He knew he had a backpack in the car. If you're thinking clearly, you're dumping out the backpack and filling it with water if you're going out into the desert and you know you're going to be going far, which once again leads me to believe that maybe he did hit his head and maybe there was no blood, but there was some kind of concussion or something like that. Or maybe he was not in his correct

mental state to begin with, which is why he left the work site so abruptly and then just started driving further into the desert. And so when he crashed, it was just kind of like a continuation of his adventure at that point. He was like, well, I don't have the car anymore, but I still got my legs and I'm going to go out and have some ego death in the desert. You know, I almost wonder, and you might have to correct me on some of the facts, but he was found, the truck was found three miles away from the work site, right? Yeah, about four miles. Yeah, four miles. So I almost wonder if right mindset, not right mindset.

He was in a bad place and he's deciding, I'm going to go take a scenic tour through the desert. I just want to go for a drive. And maybe he goes out a ways and on his way back is when he gets into this accident. Now, what happened between then and there, who knows? But maybe he loses his bearings at that point because he went so far out. Now he turns around and tries to retrace his steps. He doesn't realize because he would be able to walk three miles unless it's like 180 degrees out there. He'd be able to walk the three miles. It might be difficult, but he'd be able to do it if he's not injured. Not without water, I don't think. Three miles? Three miles

in the desert? It was hot that day, man. Not without water, no. You wouldn't be able to walk three miles without water in the desert. I wouldn't be able to? You wouldn't be able to? Yes, you would. No one would be able to. Three miles? It's like over 100 degrees, man. You would be able to walk three miles. And dry. I'm not saying it would be fun, but you'd be able to walk three miles, Stephanie. You'd be hallucinating and seeing like mirages at that point. Not after three miles. No. Do you know how fast dehydration kicks in in the desert? Have you ever wandered the desert? He's had water in the car the whole time. How do we know he's not drinking it the whole time that he's in the car? I mean, unless he hadn't been drinking all day and then

he gets out maybe, but- Like nine o'clock in the morning, it's very likely he hadn't been drinking all day and then he gets out, maybe. But I'm pretty- Like nine o'clock in the morning, it's very likely he wasn't drinking all day. I'm pretty confident in saying in a survival situation, if you had to walk three miles and you knew where your destination was, you would be able to get there. You might be very dehydrated. You might have some really bad sunburn, but I don't think you'd be seeing an island with waterfalls by the three mile mark. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Down in the comments, by all means, if I'm wrong here, but I'm,

I feel pretty good about that. I wouldn't be fun, especially for the light-skinned guy like me. I'd be one big blister by the time I got there, but I would get there, but that's kind of off where I'm going. My point being, if he drove out and he's driving back and he gets in this car accident, he might not even realize that he's only three miles from the job site. That's my point that I was trying to make is that he doesn't realize how close he is to getting help because he doesn't know his point of reference at that point. So it's like one of those movies where you see it, where they're so close, but instead of going left, they go right. And that's the difference in the story. They were right there. They just didn't know it. And there's no way to confirm it. There's

probably no lights, nothing like that. So nothing, he could have been pretty close to it and not even known it. And he might've found himself because of this accident, walking in the opposite direction of where the site was. He might've walked for six, seven miles before realizing, I think I went the wrong way. Now you got to go trek that way back. Now you got problems. Yeah. If you look at the aerial views of where his car was found, it's like nothing. Man, like three miles might as well be 300 at that point, because you can't see civilization. You don't know which way you're headed. And I mean, at the work site, it's not like this developed area. It's like a well. It's like a well in the middle of the

desert. So it's not like you could even see some sign of life from an extended distance. You'd have to know where you were going exactly. Right. So it could be a situation where he was just doing from the start. As soon as he got in a car accident, hurt or not, if you don't, I mean, there's no point of reference. There's no signs. So there's no way to tell you which way to go. So there's probably no roads.

So where are you going? You just got to guess at that point. There's like dirt roads and stuff, you know, where you can see people drive, but he went off that dirt road to get into the ravine. Yeah. So he's got problems. So yeah, I'm with you. It's terrible to think that he might've been in a situation.

Obviously there's foul play involved. He had no control over that. But if he was in a situation where he just made a wrong decision, navigationally, that's terrible, you know, to think he was that close to finding help. Yeah. And I mean, the other really super strange thing is what they found around the car. So scattered on the western side of the hill going up out of the ravine, there was a bunch of articles of clothing found. There was two inside out socks, socks that matched Daniel's socks that he had in his apartment. There was a pair of inside out jeans, two brown work boots, a faded orange vest with the Matrix company logo on it and a T-shirt. And inside the pocket of the jeans,

detectives found Daniel's wallet. So he undressed on his way out of the ravine, is what it sounds like, to the point where he's just wearing boxer shorts at this time. I mean, socks off, boots off, jeans off, T-shirt off, no orange vest, the hard hats in the car. He's got no clothes on besides his underwear at this time. He's undressing for some reason. And I'm assuming it was confirmed that those clothes

were not spare clothes. Those were the clothes he was last seen in by the colleague. Yes. And they were inside out as if he was undressing as he's walking. The socks are inside out, the jeans are inside out. So he's like taking them off as he's going. Most people who've been involved with these types of cases listen to him before. If he's someone who's being detained or taken, they usually don't make you strip down like that. I mean, it wouldn't. It wouldn't. There's no need for it. They'd take your cell phone from you, all those things, anything that could trace you back.

But that's that sounds like I don't even know if this is, again, a psychology thing. But there's a thing called excited delirium or when you feel like you're in a situation that you're not – you feel like you're extremely hot or whatever. He might have been in that point, but if you're not thinking in the right mind state, you just start tripping. You see it on Mount Everest. A lot of people, a lot of hikers who go up the mountain beforehand, it's like 20, 30 degrees below. But the moments before when they start to lose their mental capacity, they strip naked because they feel like they're burning up, like they're hot when in fact they're freezing to death. It's called a paradoxical undressing. It's because their body is like warming up to almost like they're going into shock. Yeah. That's what I was going to say. The only time I've ever seen that is in instances of frostbite, of her clothes were removed. So you see that

sometimes. And that's the only time I've seen anything like that in a biological sense. So I really can't explain it. But now we have a lot that's a lot that's a like you're going out into the desert in the worst possible way you could right yeah you're exposed literally and figuratively you're definitely in a bad spot and we talk about the sun i know we were kind of joking about the walking distance and stuff but i would say now any protection you have from that heat from that sun is gone. So that would definitely speed up the time it takes for the sun to have an impact on you.

And your feet. Yeah. Oh my God. In the desert. True. It's hot sand, rocks, like freaking scorpions skittering about, spiders, poisonous creatures, cacti. No, no, no.

No, not good. Not a good idea. But that's what I'm saying. That's not a good idea. It's not a good idea. So unless somebody was in the car with him and forced him to get undressed as they marched him out of the ravine, he did it to himself and he's not in the right mindset. Nobody in their right mindset would do that before wandering out into again, is not 100 percent impossible, but very unlikely. At the top of the hill to the east of the Jeep were tracks that ran to the east and they appeared to have been rained on since they'd been left, so I guess they were hard to see. According to the weather, it had rained pretty hard at least three times in that area since Daniel went missing, which I think is evidenced by the rainwater inside of the upside-down hardhat that's in his car. After further examination of the tracks and the surrounding scene, detectives believed that Daniel's vehicle

had gone down into the ravine, impacted hard at the bottom with a forward and lateral momentum, which caused the vehicle to tip up on the hood and windshield as it rolled over onto its side, where it came to a rest. Now, at the time, law enforcement did not do forensic testing at the scene or inside the vehicle because they believed there was no sign of blood and no sign of foul play. But for the next 18 hours, law enforcement searched the area by foot and with off-road vehicles, as well as using 627 cadaver and tracking dogs in a four-quadrant search for five hours. Police and other search volunteers did encounter a mountain lion in the search area, but they did not find any evidence that Daniel had been attacked by a wild animal, and they found no sign of Daniel at all. The Jeep was towed to the Buckeye Police Department property and evidence impound, and a tarp was placed over it to protect

it from the dirt and wind. On July 21, Officer Price, with the Buckeye Police Department, was able to download the crash data from the Jeep's black box, and Price said that the Jeep didn't record the date or time of the crash event, but the vehicle was going 30 miles per hour at the time that the airbags were deployed. The data showed that in the five seconds prior to the crash, the vehicle was going at max 33 miles per hour, and at 0.1 second prior to the crash, it was going 30 miles per hour. The data also showed that for five seconds pre-crash, the throttle fluctuated, but the brakes were never applied. So basically what this is saying is

whoever was driving the car kind of like sped towards the ravine. And maybe they didn't know the ravine was there, but they were driving at a fast clip. And they said that the throttle did fluctuate for the five seconds before the crash, meaning they pushed on the gas, pulled off the gas, pushed on the gas. There was some throttling happening. It wasn't just like pedal to the metal, but they were never going under like 30 miles per hour. And whoever was driving never tapped on the brakes or pushed the brakes. They were basically going like full steam ahead. Am I correct in what I just said? I'm not a car person, but- No, that makes perfect sense. The brakes were never applied. Human nature would be if you're someone who's not trying to get into an accident, you're going to, you're naturally going to hit that brake pad as soon as you see an

obstruction in front of you. There was something I wanted to ask you about. And I, again, in the comments, I know there were marijuana joints found in the apartment. Some people have suggested, you know, could, in addition to some of the things going on in his head, could there have been something going on with what he was in? What he might've been taking? Could he have been out driving around smoking something that could have contributed to his thought process or lack thereof?

Do you think that's a possibility? Because there were a few people in the comments saying that because there was some evidence of marijuana use back at his place, right? Yeah, he smoked weed. Yeah. No, weed's not going to make you do that. Now, there was some theories. I think Jeff McGrath, the private investigator had like thrown around a theory early on that maybe he, you know, Daniel had gotten a hold of like a PCP laced joint, obviously not knowing that there was PCP in it. I think it's a weak kind of theory. It's besides his odd behavior or trying to explain his odd behavior, it doesn't really explain anything. And it certainly doesn't explain his continuing

odd behavior that like seems to kind of grow worse as time went on, as he got closer to his disappearance, unless he's smoking a PCP laced joint every single day. And then just getting more PCP in the joint as he goes on, as his behavior and the oddness worsens, I don't think that it's possible. And smoking weed is not going to do that. I feel like you'd have to be super, super, super high to be driving straight towards a ravine, see it it and not touch the brake at all. I mean, you would even, you would touch the brake, you would slam on the brake like once you, even once you like your wheels like left the ground and you kind of felt like you were

going down just instinctually. I feel like you would hit the brake, right? Yeah, I would think so too. Yeah, I would. Fun story. Not really fun. One time when I was undercover smoking weed, I'm pretty confident it was laced with cocaine. It was an experience. Unexpected experience. Unbeknownst to me, guys, I didn't know that was the case, but I found out the hard way. So how did you know? Because I've smoked weed before and I know how I felt when I got high and this was different. I wanted to go run a marathon. I usually want a pizza afterwards. I was like, this is different. That's what I'm saying. You want a pizza and like, you're bad, you know, you're not, you're not going crazy and saying like, well, let's drive out in the desert. No, I mean, you'd have to, it's unfortunate. We don't have Daniel, you know, whether they found his body, whatever, to do a toxicology report, because that would clear things up really quick, wouldn't it? But we don't have that. So I can't rule it out definitively.

He obviously was a marijuana smoker. Could he have been in a position where he didn't know? Or maybe he did know, but they were something else added to it that could have enhanced what he was trying to feel, maybe. But there's no evidence of that, at least. There's no indication that that's what he was doing. And if the investigators were good, I'm sure they were collecting the, whatever remnants of the marijuana joints were found at the apartment to test those to see if

there were any other substances found in those as well, to see if there might've been a history of him using other substances knowingly or unknowingly with the marijuana. Well, listen, I don't want to jump on the bandwagon of people who think that the Buckeye Police Department is completely covering this up and there's this big conspiracy and they're just hiding everything. I don't want to jump on that bandwagon because I don't believe it. Do I think that they were the most adept police force? Do I think they were the most like on top of it police force? No, no, I doubt that they tested. I doubt that they did that, to be honest with you. I don't think that they did that. What I will say is if Daniel was like into this podcast,

and he was talking about like having an ego death, and he kind of wanted to like, I guess, improve, open up his consciousness. I wouldn't be concerned about marijuana. I'd be concerned about shrooms. I'd be concerned about ayahuasca, stuff like that. And this is Arizona and I know that people be doing that stuff out in the desert all the time. So did he get his hands on something like that thinking it would help him have that ego death. Because listen, I will tell you something, you can't really come out of a huge shroom trip feeling like your ego is intact. If you want an ego death, then you should do mushrooms because you will just feel every single negative thing that's ever happened to you for like an hour straight and you will see

yourself differently. And I know that people do, do things like that sometimes specifically to like, to disconnect and like not have this huge ego and sort of be closer to like who they really are. So is it possible? I don't know. I feel like he would have had to have gotten them from somewhere. And hopefully by now somebody would have come forward and been like, Oh, by the way, guys, I sold Daniel Robinson, you know, a bag of shrooms. I don't think so. No, never going to happen. Cause then forward and been like, oh, by the way, guys, I sold Daniel Robinson. Never happened. You know, a bag of shrooms. I don't think so. No, never going to happen because then they're not going to be responsible. Now they know that would never happen.

No, really? If I'm a drug dealer and I know that's a kid, I might have gave him something that could have contributed to his disappearance and or death. I don't think most drug dealers are going to be ethical enough to come forward and be like, hey, by the way, I'm a drug dealer and I gave him this. And that might be the reason why he's no longer here. People who sell shrooms don't really consider themselves to be drug dealers. Now you sound like some of the defense attorneys I was talking about earlier. Just saying they don't. They consider themselves to be like medical practitioners. I'm not lying. I'm not lying to you. So but maybe that's an option that we can put that in as an option. Like maybe crazy impact that it has on you, like, which it does.

It does have a really like mentally, I mean, the best way I get it f***ed you up. That's the best way I can put it. And maybe he didn't know that. Yeah. So should we take a break now, Derek? Yeah, let's take a break. And our sponsor is Not Mushrooms. So we're good.

Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. All right, we are back. So the interesting thing is apparently the Jeep wasn't configured at that time to detect front seat passengers. But it did detect that the front passenger seatbelt was not buckled at the time of the crash. However, like we said, the driver's side seatbelt was. So apparently it can't like I guess some I guess some seats have like weight sensors in there where they can tell if somebody sitting in them. This Jeep was not configured that way, but it was configured to tell if the seatbelt was like buckled in and the driver's side was the passenger side wasn't. Which is important because if you're thinking that he's there with someone else, he's got his,

especially if someone's being held against their will or not wanting to be there at that point, if they're not seatbelted in, they could jump out of the truck. So the fact that if we're to believe there were two people there, only the driver had a seatbelt on, let's say it's in the offender, right? Let's say he's taken over the car at this point.

He's going to buckle himself in, but not buckle Daniel in. Now, for playing all these different scenarios out, you could say that Daniel's tied up at this point. He's unable to be buckled in. I feel like we're, you know, I guess it's, I always say this, you probably get sick of it. Yeah, it's possible. I'm just not seeing any other evidence of it.

You would think you would see the scenario that I saw is Daniel's in the driver's seat, buckled in and his attacker is behind him in the backseat with like a gun to his head, like drive, drive, you know? Yeah.

And that could be possible. And he decides to go into the ditch to try to get away from him. You know, like, Hey, I'm going to hit this as hard as I can. Hopefully this guy goes flying from my Jeep. Yeah. Right. Cause yeah, I mean, I'm going to hit this as hard as I can. Hopefully this guy goes flying from my Jeep. Yeah.

Right. Because maybe. Yeah. I mean, I guess another scenario possible. He picks up a hitchhiker or something. Yeah. I'm trying to be open minded. You know, I'm definitely trying to be open minded about it.

That's important to talk about, though. Is there any indication that there have been hitchhikers or anything out in this area where people like transients are getting picked up in this random place? It seems like it's off the main road where people are walking to get hitch rides. I feel like what I'm picturing in my head, this is a place that unless you have business for being out there, you're not passing through. That's my impression of it. And I've never been there. So maybe I'm wrong in that. But it doesn't seem like a through route for something else where you may interact or see

other people in your travels. Yeah. I definitely, I don't know the area, right? So like I'm not an Arizona resident. So maybe they do be hanging out in the desert and people be driving through the desert, you know, like Mad Max. I don't know. Yeah. Anybody from the area, please tell us. Like if it's known to be a shady area where there are unsavory people walking around out there. Like I have areas in my neighborhood where it's like, you know, I know where the trouble is. Was this something where people were going out there to, you know, ride four wheelers or whatever? Like, are there other people out there or is this an area of the desert where unless you're going out there to test water or whatever, there's really no business being out there? It looks really isolated, but once again.

They may be like, oh, dude, I used to go out there all the time and whatever, you know, and now that opens up the possibility that he crosses someone's path because there's something we didn't say last episode. And I think it is also an important thing because we looked at it from one perspective where I said, like, if you're having a DoorDash person or Instacart person come over, maybe don't invite them in. Maybe that's a good piece of advice. But I would also say if you're an Instacart worker or a DoorDash driver and someone invites you into their home, man or woman, be careful with that because you're also putting yourself at risk. So the point being, Daniel, go in the house.

Daniel was invited in by these women and he decided to go in because he wanted to be friends. And so does that mean he could have done this out in the desert where he interacts with someone and they befriend him and he picks them up because he's someone who thinks everyone is going to be a good person? Yeah. It's not completely out of his character to hang out with strangers. We know that. So that is another perspective to look at. And remember, his family and his friends said he was super, super friendly. And almost like one of them said that he was worried because he felt Daniel was a little naive in a way. So yeah, it does sound like it's his character. I think that's a fair assessment. You know, going into someone's home that you don't know,

hey, come on in. Yeah, you see two girls, but there could also be a bunch of other people in there who are not as nice. So, you know, you put yourself in that situation, it can be dangerous. So he could have done something like that while he was out there in a bad place. See someone, hey, you need a ride. And all of a sudden, before you know it, it goes wrong. It's bad. Now he's in a tough situation. Absolutely. But we would have to wonder what's the motive for killing Daniel Robinson when his computer, his phone, his wallet, everything is still at the car. So it's not robbery, right? And if it's some stranger that he picked up, what's their motive to kill him? Like serial killer, someone out there who gets joy out of, we've seen that before where they're What's their motive to kill him? someone who had bad intentions that was hoping someone would pick him up out there? No, I think it's possible he ran into somebody with bad intentions, but you would have to say

those bad intentions would be to benefit them somehow. They're going to kill him or tie him up because they want to rob him. It's very rare that there's a person out there who's just like, I just feel like killing people and I'm going to go, I'm going to find someone in the middle of the desert to do it. You know, like strange. He's going to find you out there. Maybe it's possible. It's possible. Listen, I'm not sitting here saying like, oh, you're telling me something that makes me say that. But if I were to do something like that and I'm looking to get away with it, I don't want to be traveling around with the person after I do whatever I'm trying to do. You have nothing but open land to dispose of a body, if that's what your intentions are. Now, I would say to your defense, if you don't want it to come back as that, you would take their wallet, even if you didn't want the money, just to give the impression

it was for financial reasons, right? Like to throw law enforcement off. So the fact that they didn't take it, it's still odd to me, you know, but I think it's more likely that he was abducted by aliens than he encountered a sadistic serial killer who kills just for the thrill of it. Okay, good. Duly noted. Do not hire Stephanie as my PI. Okay, I got it. I just, I mean, his clothes were off. That's what aliens do. There's more evidence of aliens. Now you're talking about the other elements of the case. And I think you do have to evaluate those as far as the clothes and all that. You play that all into your ultimate assessment. But just looking at him, maybe going the opposite way. If we start hearing in the comments that this area was frequented by a lot of people who were just

out there, I don't know. God knows doing what. I don't see a reason for it. I'm an East Coaster. I'm like, I ain't going to no desert. Right? I'm not going to no desert. Maybe he ran into somebody who's cooking drugs out there.

That would be a motive, okay? Something. Maybe they're running illegal drag races or cockfighting, and he happens to see it. Maybe that's a reason, you know, but just like he picks some up random hitchhiker who has no intention of robbing him and just wants to kill him. I mean, we're getting into like Hollywood movie territory now. I agree. It's very unlikely. It's very unlikely. Not impossible. It could be as simple as the guy gets in the car and says, give me your keys. And Daniel's like, not today. I'm not in the right headspace. I'm already having, but you want it.

You picked the wrong guy to rob today. And he hits the gas instead of the brakes and says, okay, you want to go here? Buckle up. Buckle up buttercup. You picked the wrong dude to rob today. Yeah. Not after what happened with Caitlin, man. He is not having it.

Yeah. And, you know, God knows what else he's going. He's thinking about in his head. And I still, with everything else that you have with the, what appears to be a derobing doesn't align with that scenario, but it's important to at least put it out there. I'm assuming as we go, we're still very early in this episode. Those are some of the scenarios that David and his PI probably came to, right? They're thinking it's something more than what it looks like, right? They do think it's something more than what it looks like. They never specifically say what they think it is. They give out random, and we're going to talk

about that. They give out random, like, well, maybe this happened, maybe this happened, but they never specifically say what it could be, but they do say similar to you, like, well, somebody else could have been with him. You don't know if they were or not. And this is 100 million percent true. We don't know. And to that point, I would say in a lot of cases, there's always an unlikely scenario that's possible. But when it comes to law enforcement, they have to go with the evidence they have. They can't deal in hypotheticals.

Yes, they'll explore them if there's something there, but if there's no evidence that suggests that to be the case, and there's other evidence that suggests it to be something else, like, hey, he's by himself, he's driving the car, something's not right. For whatever reason, elements are outside of his control. He's not thinking clearly. He derobes. If that evidence is there, coupled with the evidence they have from days before, as far as his behavior, they're going to use rational thinking and go with that assessment because that's the most reasonable.

It's not because it's 100% truthful or that it's definitely the case, but it more likely than not, that's what it's looking like. They don't have the resources or the manpower to just examine every possible hypothetical, even though it's like you said, you were joking, but like maybe aliens abducted. I'm sure it's possible, but how would we prove that? And what resources can we devote to that? That's what it comes down to. Exactly. I completely agree. And you know, it's you, you, of course, when you're a parent, you want law enforcement to treat your child the way you treat your child.

You want law enforcement to value your child the way that you value your child. And I don't necessarily agree with this, but they have limited time, they have limited resources, and they have new cases, new missing people, new murdered people popping up every single day. So they can only pursue it so much, and they're definitely never going to pursue it as much as you would yourself. Nobody's ever going to dedicate as much time, effort, and resources to finding your child as you would yourself. And that's the unfortunate reality of what we live in as far as law enforcement and police presence and what they're capable of doing and how long they can spend on something goes. It's true. So check this out, though. At the time of the crash, the ignition cycle read 6805. But at the time of the download from the black box of the Jeep, the ignition cycle was 6850. So an ignition cycle is a complete driving cycle that basically begins with the engine starting and then ends with the engine shutting off. So

that means after Daniel's vehicle crashed, someone attempted to start the Jeep at least 40 more times. However, the Buckeye Police Department said it was unclear how many of those cycles occurred during tow recovery and from when the investigators downloaded the data. And from what I can tell, it definitely wasn't 40. It looks like when you download the black box, it's like one or two cycles are used. And then when you tow the car, maybe you turn it on once or twice, but definitely

not like 45, 46 times. So after this car crashed, this Jeep, somebody tried to start it and drive it again, which is interesting. And we're going to talk about that in a minute, but let's talk about the odometer first. For those of you who don't know, the odometer is something in a car that shows you the mileage, how many miles you've driven. And this is going to become a big part of contention or a big point of contention in this case. According to data downloaded from the Jeep's infotainment system. At 6.26 a.m., the odometer in the Jeep read 58055. And at 7.01 a.m., the odometer read 58091.99. So this is actually consistent with Daniel driving approximately 37 miles from his home to the Shell gas station located at 1520 North Verado Way.

Surveillance from that Shell station shows that Daniel was there putting gas in his Jeep between 7 and 7.03 in the morning on the day he went missing. At 7.22 a.m., the odometer read 58093.24. That's also consistent with Daniel driving about 1.25 miles from the Shell station to a work site on Verrado Way South, where he took photos of his work logs, photos that were later found in his phone, and time-stamped 7.10 a.m. So far, nothing is out of the ordinary. The miles and the times are matching up, and Daniel seems to be going about his day as if it's business as usual. At 8.35 a.m., the odometer read 58.112.50. That's a difference of about 19.26 miles. According to Google Maps, the distance between that first work site

and then the second work site, the one where he went missing from, that's 22.9 miles. And at 9 a.m., when Daniel would have been getting to the second worksite, the odometer read 58129.90. So it's unclear as to where Daniel went or what he did between leaving the South Verrado Way worksite and arriving at the Sun Valley Parkway and Cactus Road worksite, because that is an additional 17.4 miles that he probably didn't have to drive. It was only 22.9 miles between worksites, but Daniel drove about 36 miles, and it looks like he may have also made a stop at some point. But at 9.06 a.m., the odometer still read 58129.90,

and that did not change until 12.54 p.m., when an odometer reading showed mileage of 58153.51. The difference in distance between the final two odometer readings is approximately 23.6 miles with four hours between readings. And since the area that Daniel's Jeep was found in was only about four miles away from the Sun Valley Parkway site, it's once again unclear where Daniel went between leaving that site around like, you know, 9.30, 9.45 a.m. and then ending up in the ravine probably around that 1 p.m. time when the odometer read 58153.51. So that is also interesting to me because it does look like you were kind of right when you said that earlier, that maybe he had gone somewhere and then this crash happened when he was on his way back to the work site. Like maybe he even went back to civilization and then returned to the desert to go to the work site and got lost.

You know, maybe he didn't spend four hours driving around the desert until he ended up in the ravine. Maybe he left, went back to like Buckeye, maybe went back to his apartment, maybe went to Phoenix. Like he was telling that dude when they were at the work site, he was like, let's go rest in Phoenix. Maybe he went to Phoenix, who knows? And he was on his way back to the work site when he ended up in the ravine because we don't really know where he went. Probably not Phoenix, right? No, Phoenix is 45 miles away. Yeah, so this is just about 23.6 miles that doesn't really add up. And where did he go? But he could have gone anywhere and then returned to the desert later.

Yeah, there's not much out there. I'm looking at a picture and we'll have Shannon throw it in here. You can Google it really simply. It shows the search area, that law enforcement search in regards to Daniel. It shows where the job site is. It shows where the main road is, and it shows where the Jeep was found. Now, it's kind of what we thought as far as if you're looking at this map, and it's up on the screen, hopefully right now, the job site is in this area. It's a remote area. There's something way off south that's called Pioneer Landscaping at the time.

There's really nothing else out there. There's a main road that you would go out to from the job site where I would think that's where you would encounter like a transient or somebody looking for a ride, something like that. Somebody who's a hitchhiker, not where his car was found, not anywhere near where his car was found. And if he were to leave the job site and go right back to the main road, he would be traveling east. And it's not very far from the job site, but where his vehicle is found is southwest. So it's completely off where he would go, not even in almost the opposite direction of where he would need to go

to get back to the main road. So what he was doing out there, we don't know. I have a hard time believing that he would have gone out to the main road. So what he was doing out there, we don't know. I have a hard time believing that he would have gone out to the main road being on his way home. And then he encounters someone who has malicious intentions and they bring him back that way. That seems very unlikely. It seems more likely that when he left the job site, this is the direction that he had headed. Now, did he go further out? Was he even farther away from the job site than his car where his Jeep was found? And this was on his way back where he flipped it. Yeah, that's

possible. The mileage would suggest that. But I will say now looking at the map based on our conversation a little while ago, it does seem even less likely that he would have encountered someone in this specific area that would have just been out there walking around because there's really not much there to go to. I mean, like we said, 45 miles east is Phoenix. You have the highways that are further south and that's where Buckeye is. There's really nothing else out there. I see a little farm area, it looks like, but nothing where you would just be walking around out there hoping that you run into someone. Well, I mean, the place where his Jeep was found, it was on that rancher's property, allegedly. So I mean- Yeah, I mean, there's a ranch out there. I'm looking at it right now. It's possible, but there's just really nothing there unless you have business out there.

It's very remote. But if I'm wrong, you guys can hit me in the comments, but I think that's going to be the general response. Yeah, I would like to know if people live out in that area or like even in, you know, the Arizona area at all, because there's tons of desert. You know, if this is like something that you guys do as locals, like, yeah, hang out in the desert, you know, let us know. I would never. I would never. But that's just because I wouldn't survive. I can't walk three miles in the desert like Derek without water. I just can't do it. No, you definitely never. But that's just because I wouldn't survive. I can't walk three miles in the desert like Derek without water.

I just can't do it. No, you definitely can't. Jesus. No, you're never doing an amazing race with me. Not in that condition. You'll die before we – They give you water in amazing race. Not always.

Sometimes they put you in tough situations. We'll talk about it off camera. I don't want to give away all the secrets. But in relation to what you're saying about the mileage, okay, this does suggest that there was some driving around that occurred. And I also think that it would contradict the idea that he encountered someone and they immediately forced him at gun point or knife point to go somewhere directly. I think the mileage would be less. It's more indicative of him driving around, getting off the job site, not wanting to go home right away, wanting to clear his... Let's say he's under a rational mind, just wanting to drive out, clear his thoughts.

Probably not the best idea to go that way, but I think even under normal circumstances, it would be easy for someone to get lost out there. And you lose your bearings, you lose your sense of direction. All of a sudden you're going down this ravine. It still doesn't explain under a normal circumstance why you wouldn't at least attempt to hit your brakes, which is, I think, why a lot of people are questioning what his mindset was at that moment if he was driving. Because I think even if someone else was driving that vehicle, most people in the right mindset would hit their brakes unless they're trying to kill themselves. And that's something that I think a lot of people have talked about. We'll talk about that in a second and what the theory might be for why the brakes weren't hit. But the infotainment center in the car, it also showed that Daniel's cell phone was last connected to his vehicle's Bluetooth at 7.12 a.m. And when law enforcement was able to do a full

extraction of Daniel's phone, they found his texting conversation with Caitlin in the trash. They also found a conversation with his sister, Davisha, from June 22nd, where Daniel told Davisha that he had some kind of emergency, and then he didn't respond to her repeated calls and texts that followed. Now, once again, there's like mixed messaging about this. We don't know exactly what Daniel said to Davisha, but I've read in some sources that he kind of texted her like a code that they would use when like something was going down or there was like an emergency. So he didn't necessarily say like emergency, emergency, but he let her know in a way. And so when he wouldn't answer her calls or

texts, she ended up going to his apartment and waiting for him there. And he did eventually come home. And according to Davisha, she'd talked to Daniel earlier that day, and he told her he was going to the Waffle House, which is like this diner sort of near his house. I think it's like three miles away from his apartment. And this was right around the time that Daniel had texted her that he was having an emergency. Davisha said that when Daniel returned to his apartment later that night around 7.30 p.m., he was wearing blue jeans and a navy polo. And surveillance video from the Waffle House showed Daniel arrived there wearing the same clothes around 6.02 p.m.

Daniel arrived alone and on foot. He sat by himself in a booth, ordered his food, paid his bill, and took the rest of his food to go before walking out. His server that night, Madison, would tell police that she didn't know Daniel personally, but she'd seen him there enough times before to say with confidence that his demeanor on June 22nd was different than usual. Madison said that Daniel seemed skittish and off, and when she tried to engage him in conversation, he wouldn't talk to her. Detectives asked Madison if she felt Daniel acted like a regular guy who may be nervous when talking to girls, and she said, you know, I don't really know. I can't say. I can't really explain it. He just seemed off and out of it. So on July 22nd, a couple of days after they found the car,

multiple areas inside Daniel's Jeep were swabbed for touch DNA. They did wet dry swabs of the inside of the driver's door handle, the steering wheel, the gear shifter, the push start button, the rear view mirror, and the driver's seatbelt. And as far as I can tell, results from those DNA tests have never been revealed to the public, at least. Also, I would say probably not to David either. And if they were revealed to David, I'm sure he would have told us if somebody else's DNA was found in that car. So either they haven't been released at all or they found nothing or no one's DNA besides Daniel's and that's it. So basically, given the evidence that they found at the scene, the police determined they didn't

believe Daniel Robinson had been the victim of foul play. Daniel's father, David Robinson, was not too happy with that conclusion or with the Buckeye Police Department and their response to his son's disappearance in general. Once his vehicle was found and the way it was found, it just didn't look right. It didn't sit right with me. That's why I ended up getting my own private investigator. And from that point, everything that was found from that point in the case that, you know, we didn't look a little farther than the saying he's just missing. Roger, the Buckeye police say that the case remains open and active. They say currently we are consulting outside experts for enhanced analysis of the data from Daniel's vehicle.

We are also asking anyone with information to please contact investigators. You know, what do you think, Roger, about what police are doing and where this investigation into your brother's disappearance, where it stands? From what I'm getting from this, I feel that, you know, they're trying to do what's right at this point, but I feel that it's a little too late. Like my father said, had they been quick about it in the beginning, we wouldn't be here three months later, still searching for my brother and still looking for answers. I think my sister that lives in Arizona and my father did a lot in the beginning, trying to push and get things moving, pleading with the police, begging for them, hey, can you help us get a search? Can we do an air search? Can we get something? And I just think the lack of action initially is what's leading us here. And now

they're having to backtrack and try to bring in outside sources to help search for my brother. You know, I don't entirely disagree with that footage, to be honest with you, because I can see how based on what you told me from the last episode, as far as getting the logistics together to get the flight, there was a flight crew, civil air patrol. They needed time to coordinate and plan. You were like, Hey, I think you had said, I'm guessing here. I need a week or so to, to kind of coordinate the plan to fly the area. I can see how from a family perspective, you want instant results. You want them out there immediately. And there may be some logistical things that they're not familiar with because they don't do it every day that took time.

But I do agree with them from the sense of the quicker you find the car, the quicker you find any type of evidence, the more likely it might contain information you need to solve the case. The longer it's exposed to the elements, things will deteriorate over time. So I think from that rationale, if they acted sooner, maybe they find the car a little sooner. Maybe they find Daniel, who knows? I can see that perspective. I'm not saying I'm 100% on board with it and that's why we are where we are today. I don't know if it would have made a difference, but I can understand where they're coming from when they say it. Yeah, but they put helicopters in the air within a day or two. But didn't you say they only did a smaller area at that point? And not only that,

they put a helicopter in the air. His car was only found four miles from the site, but that helicopter didn't spot it and it was only four miles away. They said because of the terrain and because of the fact that it was inside the ravine, kind of not in plain sight. That's why they had missed it with the air searches. And I know you're not defending them, but then how did the Civil Air Patrol find it from the air? The Civil Air Patrol didn't find it. Who found it from the air?

A rancher found it. Nobody found it from the air. A rancher found it walking on his property. Ah, okay. All right. I stand corrected then. So maybe, yeah, maybe it just wasn't visible from the air. These are the things, you know, it's one of those situations where, you know, I understand

the sense of urgency, someone you care about, someone you love, but, and I'm sure that initially those police officers were doing their best to find them. And you even just corrected me here where they were out there with the helicopters. It appears that no one was able to find the car from the air. It was a rant, like you said, a rancher on the ground. If it wasn't for that ranch was able to find the car from the air. It was a ranch, like you said, a rancher on the ground. If it wasn't for that rancher, we might have never found the vehicle. So I think it's like also a needle in a haystack kind of thing, because this is a big ass desert. OK, so you don't know which direction he went in. Right. Like it's not going

to be a thing where you can just go up, fly around for a couple hours and you're like, there he is, you know, and I feel so annoyed that I'm defending law enforcement right now because I never do that. And I hate to do it. But also, I mean, this is the desert. So you've got to really do grid searches. That takes time. You've got to stop to refuel. It's not like this, just go up in the plane and find him. It's the desert. So you don't know which direction he went in. You have no idea where he went. You don't even know at that point, because they hadn't found his vehicle yet. They didn't even know if he was still in the desert. You know what I mean? So they don't

even know where to start. So where do you start? You probably start from the last place he was seen and sort of like go outwards. And there's a big chance they probably flew over that ravine with that car in it a couple of times and just didn't see it. I should hope that they went four miles out. That would be crazy if they didn't. If they start where the job site is and the truck was four miles south of the job site. So let's just double that because obviously however many miles you go south, you got to go north, right? So eight miles. So let's say it's an eight by eight grid. So what's that?

64 square miles? I don't know. I don't know. I don't have enough expertise to know how long it would take to kind of canvas a 64-mile grid, a 64-square-foot-mile grid. I don't know. I don't have enough expertise to know how long it would take to kind of canvas a 64-mile grid, a 64-square-foot-mile grid. I don't know. But it doesn't seem that large to me, to be honest. But I'm a complete novice. We didn't have a helicopter where I was.

I worked in a very small city. We did not have that luxury. We never had an area that we would have to canvas like that. So I'm not familiar with it. But it would seem, like you said said that they would fly over that area. But I can tell you from the map photos, from the images you see of the car, it's pretty obvious, but it's only, I don't know how high up in the air it is. Further up, it might be more difficult, but it's pretty apparent from the shots they have of it once they find it. Yeah. But then civil air patrol goes out and those are planes that fly

pretty low yeah yeah so you'd think that they would have seen it but once again maybe they don't know which direction to head in maybe they were looking in the other direction like who knows but they didn't see it and i mean there's people out there who say like none of these air searches like ever took place that they're just lying about searching the air so overall i understand the frustration from the brother and from the father i mean this is your this is your son this is your brother i think it's human nature to be upset with whatever agency is in charge of it if they don't get you the results that you're looking for there's nothing wrong with that it happens every single time no matter how good you do for many cases where we don't we come up short, we don't get the

results they need. And the family who you've been working with all along turns on you really quick because they need someone to take their frustrations out on. And it's normally law enforcement. Sometimes it's warranted, sometimes it's not, but it doesn't really matter. The family's entitled to feel the way they want to feel. But I will say, I watched this video of this kid who moved to Buckeye and he's like, look, I live in Buckeye and it's literally in the middle of the desert. It is. There's stores and stuff and then there's the desert right there. So for a police department based in a location, in a city, in a town that is so like kind of remote and in the middle of the desert, I feel like probably people be getting lost in the desert all the time. Like they probably should have like a better way of handling that when it happens.

Like they probably should have like a quicker response. They should have a better process for when people go missing in the desert than just kind of like randomly going out there and flying around and hoping they see something. Yeah. It's so hard to talk about it because I just don't have any, I don't have any experience in it. I really don't. So it's, I mean, I'd be such a hypocrite to sit here and like condemn them for what they're doing when they're, they could be watching this going, buddy, you worked in a city. You, you, the most sand you had was at the beach 45 minutes away from where your jurisdiction was like i i wouldn't have any sand you had was in the sandbox at the yeah local park yeah so i mean i i'm talking on my ass about grid searches and stuff with stuff like that i

mean we've done we're always we're always talking out our ass with this right like we can't say we agree with daniel's family the police didn't do enough without actually knowing exactly what the police did. And we can't say like, oh, we 100 percent, you know, we agree with law enforcement. They did enough because we don't know if they did enough. So it's like it everything they could, but Daniel's family does not feel that way. And that's important and should be taken into account that they don't feel that way. Yeah. They were there every day. So they know what was said, what was done, what wasn't done. Nobody knows more than them. So you just got to respect their opinions. And David seems like a very pragmatic, as a former military guy, seems very pragmatic. He seems like he can kind of separate emotion from whatever the mission is. And I feel just from my limited interaction with him and also seeing videos on him, he's someone who just calls it how he sees it. And although it is his son, I think there is a part of him that feels like this just wasn't handled appropriately.

And he's looking at it from a military perspective where he's had to carry out probably dozens, if not hundreds of operations. And you have to do it a certain way to get it right. It's very regimented. So he clearly doesn't feel that was done here. Let's take a quick break and we'll be right back. Okay, we're back. And according to David Robinson, right from the start, working with the Buckeye Police was not a great experience for him. He said, quote, After contacting the Buckeye Police Department, the next two days of trying to pull their teeth to go out and look for my son proved to me that I had to leave immediately from my home and search for Daniel myself. The Buckeye Police Department showed no interest in searching for my son. Instead, they quickly adopted a theory that my son had decided to abandon his family and friends. On a couple of occasions, the Buckeye Police suggested that my son may have joined a monastery and become a monk. It was offensive to me, and it motivated me even more than I was."

David also goes on to say that family out of state had to put pressure on the police, which is what caused the helicopter search to take place, but that wasn't until a week later. Once again, there's so much out there on this case because David Robinson gave a lot of interviews, so I'm not sure if he's being quoted out of context or if he was misinformed at the time that he gave this interview. But according to the Buckeye Police Department website and the police report, the first helicopter search in Daniel's case took place on June 25th, which I personally still think is too long to look for someone who could be lost in the desert because that's still two days that they would have to survive out there and two days if they're like walking for them to get further away. But it certainly was less than a week. So I don't know why he said that or why they said

that he said that. But it was the Civil Air Patrol that wasn't called in until later, which was July 6th, I believe. But there were helicopter searches before that. And I was reading this from an LA Sentinel article that was published in October of 2021. And in this article, David once again asserts that the police did not look for Daniel for a week after he went missing. And once again, from the police report and the website, that just does not appear to be true. It definitely was not a full seven days or a full week that the police were out there looking for Daniel in the desert. I do want to be accurate here. I think that a delayed police response of any kind is bad. So I don't think that we need to

exaggerate it to make it seem worse. Like I think two days is two days too many to start looking for somebody when they're lost in the desert. We don't need to make it a week. Yeah. Maybe he's being taken out of context. Maybe it's more related to boots on the ground, you know, guys actually being out there on. police report. And it's either believe that or believe that they completely lied. And they said, screw this kid. We don't care about him and we're not going to go out looking for him. And we're just going to tell people we are. Yeah. There'd be a lot of people would have to be in on that too, because obviously there'd be timesheets and there'd be logs of who was working and what their assignments were. It would be pretty easy to discredit if they did lie. Yeah. I hope he's being just quoted out of context probably maybe it felt

i mean it feels like that i'm sure like you said in two days is they don't know if he has water or not that yeah you survive what seven days without water is that what it is you can't you can survive yeah not that long without water with food longer yeah but when daniel's vehicle was found his father david claims quote the detective once again suggested that my son most likely walked with food longer. Yeah. But when Daniel's vehicle was found, his father David claims, quote, the detective once again suggested that my son most likely walked off

naked into the desert and joined a monastery to become a monk. I was angry inside and already emotional about seeing my son's Jeep for the first time wrecked. End quote.

And David said that he thought it was weird the way the police kept telling him to like touch Daniel's Jeep and look inside of it. And he was like, I never touched it, even though they kept like encouraging me to and like telling me to touch it. And he thought that it was like suspicious that they kept telling him to touch the vehicle. And he said that one police officer opened the

back door and grabbed a bag with Daniel's things in it, the book bag, and then like dumped it on the seat. And he was like, see, you know, he must have wandered off because all his stuff is still here, like blah, blah, blah. So David claims that as he sat in his hotel room the next few days and thought about all this new information and worry that was now flooding his head, he realized that the police had not done forensics. So he contacted the Buckeye Police Department and he met with them to ask why they had not done this forensic work so he contacted the Buckeye Police Department and he met with them to ask why they had not done this forensic work. David Robinson said, quote, their explanation was they didn't do anything because there was no blood in the vehicle and no sign of foul play.

I asked how they knew that my son was even driving the vehicle. The detective said that he was obviously driving because it's his vehicle. I asked again how they knew that it was my son driving or someone else was also in theye Police Department one way or the other, and so he hired his own private investigator, Jeff McGrath, who in his five years as a PI claims to have a 99% success rate. Jeff McGrath said, quote, This case started with a short investigation and final determination where Mr. Robinson was still left with confusion and a lot of questions. When we were brought on board, a month had passed and time was critical. As soon as we began our investigation, a month after Daniel went missing,

we were able to uncover some issues with the initial investigation. It appeared to us that the original detectives did not know there were some problems with how Daniel's car was damaged. They had the information that they downloaded from the car's airbag control module, and they did not see or understand that it did not match with the vehicle's damage and location. It was brushed off as Daniel crashed and walked away from his vehicle, never to be seen again, and that was it. As we began to unravel those questions, we would come across more new questions. End quote. What is it about Daniel's car that strikes you as off in terms of where it was found, the location, what was left behind? Well, the damage to the vehicle, it didn't match the area that the vehicle was found in.

It had some damage along the driver's side that is unexplainable by the detectives. It also had some intruding damage into the windshield that didn't match anything in the area as well. Plus, I also had the airbag control module report that tells me what that vehicle was doing five seconds before the airbags deployed and what was going on with that vehicle since the airbags deployed. And what does that tell you? It tells us that the vehicle traveled another 11 miles after the airbags did deploy on that vehicle. It also tells us there were 46 additional ignition cycles on the vehicle after the airbags came out and that the report says the vehicle was traveling about 30 miles an

hour for five seconds prior to its final rest or airbag deployment, I should say. And that's not possible in the area where the vehicle was found. So piecing that information together, how do you think the car got there? Well, I think the car got there by somebody was still driving the vehicle after the airbags came out. And if it was dumped intentionally or somebody was joyriding and that's where it ended out. And if it was dumped intentionally or somebody was joyriding and that's where it ended up. And once it got there, you couldn't move it out from there, tip to its side. Or Daniel was in it. We don't have any proof to say that he wasn't, but we also don't have any to say that he wasn't. But his cell phone, his wallet, his keys, all still left with the car. Jeff,

people describe Daniel's behavior, those who worked with him on that morning that he disappeared as odd. What have you learned about his state of mind on the last day he was seen? Well, what I did learn was that he was tired. The odd behavior, that's the only definition that I've been told was odd. So I don't know what they really mean by that. But his behavior when he was at the job site was that he was tired and wanted to rest. And I think he drove off and wanted to rest somewhere in his vehicle is what I think. I don't have an issue with anything that he said. I feel like he was sticking to the facts.

I like the fact that he didn't really speculate. He just basically said, hey, listen, this is what I know. These are the facts that I know him to be based on the data that was pulled from the vehicle. And I like the fact that he was willing to acknowledge, yeah, he could have pulled off. There could have been someone else driving or it could have been Daniel driving. I don't have any evidence to suggest either way, which I think for some people can be frustrating. I do it a lot on here where it's like, he's not going to come out and say definitively that it's, he was robbed or that he was, he was taken by someone. He doesn't know. All he's saying is I don't have evidence here definitively that says 100% Daniel was driving that car and everything that happened afterwards

was him. So he's just saying, listen, I'm still open to all scenarios. The only thing I'll say is that for a detective, for an agency that we're supposed to trust, there's a glaring fact wrong. So what else did they get wrong? They're saying that the vehicle fell into that ravine and the airbags deployed and that was its final resting place. I have evidence that says otherwise.

And that I think is important. When you think about the fact that whoever was driving the vehicle might have hit something else, which would explain some of the damage on the vehicle that's not explained by that ravine. And it shows that whoever was driving the vehicle continued to drive it after the airbags had already deployed. So clearly whoever that person is, is either has a sense of urgency to get away, they're trying to dump the car, or they're not in the right mind state. Okay, well, let's hear a little bit more about Jeff McGrath explaining further the damage of

the vehicle that he believes doesn't match up to what law enforcement claims happened. First thing I noticed was the picture that Mr. Robinson showed me where the vehicle was laying on its other side. And I saw this damage here as you look down with this mirror folded in. That's what I was saying. It didn't look right. It didn't match being tipped on the other side. And I saw this windshield from these pictures. And this is from some blunt force coming inwards to it like someone threw a rock or something to that. I don't know, but something hit this here which broke this and spiderwebbed this out. This window glass is the only glass that's completely broken out on this entire vehicle and this is the opposite side that it tipped on. There's panels in the roof, they're solid panels there's no glass in the roof of this thing. So it's just that there's release hatches inside and you pull the release and then you pop the

panels out and that makes it almost like I guess a convertible. So this damage didn't look right to me as we move around. This here, if you look low, this is probably the force that blew the airbags. Something, and it's only going to be about this tall, so it could be a boulder in the desert uh but somebody ran into that with no braking at 30 miles an hour uh probably the vehicle probably jumped over it went crazy but all the airbags blew and they kept kept going that's some fascinating stuff isn't it yeah i mean if i knew what any of it meant i think i think it's open to interpretation he could just be he yeah he could just be making it up and then or the other dude could just be making it up and say you know let's look at it

pragmatically right let's just look at it like commonsensical as we can well first and foremost if we're to believe that that vehicle was out there and only you know whoever's driving it they're driving it okay and then they get into that ravine and they don't see it. Whatever reason they're on there. Let's say it's for Daniel for this purpose. Okay. Just let's play it out. He's driving around. He's joyriding. Okay. He's on his phone. He's looking at it, whatever. He doesn't see what's happening in front of him. And he falls into this ravine. He hits, he crashes in this ravine, which would explain the lack of the braking, right? He didn't even see it coming to this individual's point. There is damage on that, that front driver's side panel.

That is a little harder to explain because the way the truck fell, it fell on its, on its passenger side. So how did it get damaged on the left side? The, the window thing doesn't bother me because I've seen situations where we've had rollovers and the driver's side window, because it has like a, it could have a minor crack in it or just something like a minor fracture that you can't even really see. It just causes that window to be a little bit more brittle and it breaks out when it's struck. compress when they get into a rollover accident or whatever it could cause a piece of metal at impact to squeeze out and on that glass and then kind of accordion back out after the impact which could break that window like nothing so that doesn't raise a super red flag for me i do think

without knowing the area around it i do think that struck the impression on the on the driver's side window would suggest like a rounded object or a body. Even I've seen that before where he was saying something low needed to hit here that's where he hit the ground and flipped over ending up on its side okay so they're saying in it goes hit something low a boulder maybe yeah like at the front yep hits and then rolls or hits the ground they think that he went down into the ravine, hit the ground with the nose of his car, basically. Okay. Which caused the impact to have the airbags go off and then the car to sort of like fall onto its side and like lay there. So how do you explain the 11 miles on the data recorder afterwards?

Well, I will do that. Okay, cool. Because I don't know the answer to it, so. So Jeff McGrath claims that he's worked on crash reconstruction investigations since 2004, and he believes that the Jeep crashed somewhere else and it was then moved and then dumped in the ravine. I do want to also point out really quickly,

there's glass from the car, like around the car in the ravine. So, you know, definitely some glass broke there. So basically, Jeff McGrath points to the 11-mile odometer discrepancy between the crash data report and the odometer reading, saying that after the airbags deployed, someone drove an additional 11 miles. McGrath basically said that the company who did the original reconstruction for the police, Santan Recon, they never had possession of the vehicle, so they couldn't get a full understanding of the situation. But Joseph Catone, owner and reconstructionist at Santan Recon, rebutted this, saying, yes, it's true that he didn't have full

access to the vehicle, but he did use crash scene photos at ground level as well as aerial shots, and he did visit the crash site twice. About the 11-mile discrepancy, Katone and the Buckeye police were told by employees at Jeep dealerships that the discrepancy between crash report data and odometer readings are common. And this had been the case with other similar vehicles that Santan Recon had looked into. However, Jeff McGrath claims in his five years, he's never seen this discrepancy once. So here we are. Jeff McGrath saying never seen this discrepancy, don't know her. Who is she? And Santan Recon and the Buckeye Police saying, like, we talked to people at Jeep dealerships and they said that this is pretty common. Now, aside from calling a Jeep dealership and checking this ourselves, I don't know how we could confirm, but I feel like that would be actually pretty easy to do. I wish I'd done that now. I wish I'd done that today. I should have called Jeep dealerships and asked about this. You know, I would think the one thing that is a knock on Jeff, I would say, as far as his theory is you would think the biggest impact was that low impact,

right? Like he's saying that would be the impact that would have set off the airbags that would have damaged the vehicle the most significantly. And you would think at that point, once the systems are alarmed, once my Rhode Island's coming out there, I'm sorry. Once the systems are alarmed, the airbags go off, the vehicle is no longer going to turn over. It's no longer going to start, which would explain the 35 to 45 attempts to restart the vehicle after the airbags go off. So it doesn't seem likely that if that's the worst impact that happens, why the vehicle wouldn't start at a later time without having to drive 11 miles, if that makes sense. Do you follow what I'm saying there? Where it's something where I don't understand, if that's the most significant impact,

that would probably render the vehicle unable to drive. And yet we're to believe that someone was able to restart the vehicle, drive 11 more miles, and then all of a sudden it just stopped starting. And then dumped it in the ravine. Yeah. So that's the one thing I'll say where, to me, it sounds like once that significant accident occurs, it sets off the airbags, the vehicle will no longer turn over. And that's when whoever's driving attempts to start it 35 to 45 times, and they're unable to do so.

So that would be more in line with what the dealerships are saying and what the original accident reconstruction is saying. Yeah. If that 11 mile odometer discrepancy is common, then everything else can be explained. I think the engine turning over, if Daniel had driven himself into the ravine, yeah, of course he's going to try to start his car and see if he can drive out of the ravine, yeah, of course he's going to try to start his car and see if he can drive out of the ravine, right? Like he might be trying to start his car and just try to drive away and see if, you know, he's not going to want to leave on foot. That's not the thing he's going to want to do. So maybe he is going to try to restart his car.

So I don't think that, like you said, it seems weird that then it would crash and somebody would keep trying to restart it. And then what? They finally got it started, drove 11 miles and then left it. Why did it take so long for them to get it started? That's what I'm trying to, it just doesn't seem, it seems like most times vehicles, newer vehicles have a safety system in place where if the vehicle is in a severe situation with a harmful impact, the system, the ECU will actually shut off. It won't allow you to start the car anymore for that reason, because it could cause a fire, things of those nature. So when you have a significant impact like that, where the airbags are deployed, the electronic control module will be set up to

kind of say, hey, listen, this vehicle is no longer capable of driving safely and it kills the ability to start the car. And that would be why someone would attempt to start it 45 times and it would more than likely be unsuccessful. I would also think that the data recorder would show it was attempted to be turned over or whatever, how many times, but I would think it would show that it started on the 45th attempt if it did, if that's what happened. It looks like it just attempted to the 45th attempt if it did, you know, if that's what happened. It looks like it just attempted to, you know, someone attempted to turn it over but was unsuccessful. I don't know. You'd think, yeah.

You know, I would think the data recorded would show that, that it would show other systems engaging, like the electronic control unit, things like that. Yeah, you would think. Yeah. So it sounds like that vehicle, when it had that severe impact, which appears to be there, was no longer capable of driving anywhere. Well, Jeff McGrath also talked about the claim that the Jeep had been driving 30 miles per hour up until the time of the crash. And he said, in his opinion, given the terrain, that was not possible. And he had actually attempted to get his own off-road vehicle up to that speed in the same area, and he could not. Additionally, there was red paint found on

Daniel's vehicle. And Jeff believed that this red paint transfer suggested a previous accident before the vehicle was left in the ravines. So for instance, someone with a red car or red truck had like run Daniel off the road, taken Daniel, killed him, whatever, and then gotten rid of his car, leaving that red paint from their vehicle on his car. That's the suggestion, I believe. Jeff McGrath also points to the 46 additional ignition turnovers after the airbags were deployed as further evidence of foul play, saying, quote, after the airbags were deployed as further evidence of foul play, saying, quote, after the airbags came out, somebody turned that ignition over at least 46 more times. That's not normal. We usually see one or two because it adds one when we download the box,

end quote. It's normal if you crashed your car in a ravine and you're trying to get out of the ravine, I think. It's not normal if somebody stole your car and is trying to get out of the ravine. I think it's not normal if somebody stole your car and is trying to like get rid of it and, and killed you. You know, I don't think it's normal. If it's not normal for that, it's not normal for anything. It does that make sense? Like it's not, if it's not normal to see one person doing that, like if you said, oh, that's not normal, Daniel wouldn't do that. Then it's not normal for his kidnappers or his killers to do that either. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does actually. And it doesn't seem like, you know, every once in a while a squirrel finds a nut, you know, just it happens. But no, I mean, it's one of those situations where I understand where they're coming from. I'm sounding like a

broken record tonight because I don't have anything here to say they're wrong, right? But I also don't have anything here to say they're right. And you can only go with reasonable deduction. And sometimes that can be wrong, even though it reasonably seems to make the most sense. That's not always the case, but there has been, there are a lot of theories being presented, but there's really nothing substantial to say, yeah, it's more likely that this is what happened. You would expect to see some sign of struggle in that car. I would think, even if it wasn't from the accident, some sign of struggle with blood or something like that, especially if he was killed in the car. There's nothing, there's nothing of that. And the red paint transfer. Okay. Yes, that absolutely could be from that situation I described.

It also could be because he hit something days, weeks, months before. And David and his family were not seeing Daniel every single day. He was living in Arizona. They were across the country. Do I think Daniel would have called him and said, oh, I bumped a car? No, probably not because it's not that significant. And also you don't want to get chewed out by your dad. So he could have easily hit something before that day. That being the case, it also could be exactly what, what they're saying. There's just no proof of it. So it's tough to make that jump. It's okay to entertain it. We should be speculative of every investigation and always ask questions, but you got to have something to support it. Theories aren't going to get convictions in a court of law. So I agree. I agree. And there's a lot of theories. And I do appreciate, you know,

like you said, Jeff McGrath being pretty neutral about it. And he's not over here. He's not over here, like screaming from the rooftops, like Daniel Robinson was murdered. He's leaving it open for interpretation. And he's also saying, you know, I think that this happened. I think he wanted to go take a rest, but I don't know. And maybe he encountered somebody bad out there. But I've looked through the Internet to sort of put together a list of things that happened in this case, which lead people to believe that something suspicious is going on. And we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to dive into that and also talk about theories. Okay, we're back. So when Daniel first went missing, his family requested the use of a helicopter to search for him, but they claimed that that request was denied. But a short time later, David's aunt called him, and I think she's in Pennsylvania. She told him she'd personally spoken to the Buckeye Police Department and they were going to use a helicopter. But David has since asked for a record of this flight, and allegedly, he's never received it or seen it. And I think this is where people start getting into this

thing where like, oh, they said they sent the helicopter up, but they never did. They never sent helicopters out to look for Daniel because they don't have like a flight plan to prove that they did this. Also, two days before Daniel's vehicle was found, someone, they never say who, claimed that they saw what they thought was Daniel's Jeep looking beat up on the side of the road. Allegedly, they took a picture and sent it to David, but I don't see anywhere that David has publicly shared this photo. I could be wrong. If you guys know where it is, let me know. Apparently, he showed it during a Zoom meeting with some volunteers who are helping to look for Daniel, and some of these volunteers were talking about this picture in chats on Reddit and stuff, but I haven't personally seen the picture myself. Now, David allegedly called the Buckeye police and told them about this picture and this Jeep.

And he said that they were quick to say the Jeep was not Daniel's. And by the time David got to the location where the picture was taken, the Jeep was gone. There's also allegations that the lead detective on this case, Detective Biffin, altered the scene before CSI got there. And this is something where I will say I believe that this happened because in the police report, crime scene investigator Detective Prusik wrote that there were two boots on the hillside going out of the ravine where Daniel's clothes were found. But the rancher, who was the first person to locate the Jeep, allegedly took pictures. And in those pictures, there was only first person to locate the Jeep, allegedly took pictures. And in those pictures, there was only one boot on the hillside. The other boot was lodged underneath the vehicle along with the sunroof. I believe that this happened because I do believe there's like an

addendum in the police report where they mentioned that the boots were moved. I don't think they ever say who did it or how that happened, but that is an issue. You know, if things, pieces of evidence are being moved before the CSI investigator gets there. And that is, I think, you know, it does show an example of like tunnel vision where the police investigator on the scene thinks like, oh, this is clear what happened here. Daniel took off. So like, what do I need to like preserve every piece of evidence? Like, I don't need to worry about where the freaking boots are. The boots are here. They're his boots. And I'm not concerned. So if there was foul play, you have just messed with a crime scene that could have given some evidence as to what happened to Daniel. And now the stuff's kind of

altered. And if that boot was altered, that boot was moved, what else was moved? What else was altered? That's the question that, you know, does arise was moved, what else was moved? What else was altered? That's the question that, was in a bad mental place. And more than likely he either committed suicide, had a death wish and was doing things to try to kill himself, but not intentionally putting himself in tough situations or had a mental disorder and was out there and was completely disoriented and walked off into the middle of the desert. This is before even finding the car. And so when they found the car and they see the clothes and they don't see any signs of

anything obvious that would suggest there was a struggle or something else was going on in the vehicle, it just to them reaffirmed what they had already thought. So they put some time into- Confirmation bias. I do think that's a very plausible scenario and it's wrong. It's absolutely wrong. And I, this is just my opinion. Law enforcement friends don't come for me, but that is my opinion on it. I feel like they started to connect the dots and here's the thing. They might be right. It might

be exactly what they assume, but you can't do that. Their assessment based on their knowledge, training and experience, their interviews, whatever they did, the crime scene itself, it may be a hundred percent right. What they think happened very well may be the case, but they have to understand that that's someone's son, someone's brother, and they're going to scrutinize every single thing you do. Rightfully so. So you need to have your I's dotted and your t's crossed for example this 11 mile discrepancy even though you've got it spilled out and figured out what happened you need to articulate that in something so that when the family sees it they don't feel like you're using

an excuse after the fact you have to put all that out there so that those questions are answered for them because they're going to ask and so when you're doing it after the fact, it looks like you're covering up a mistake. And whether that's the truth or not, it doesn't really matter. It's how it looks. Yeah, I agree. That is a problem. And I do think it's an issue of confirmation bias, and they could be confirming the truth, but we don't know that yet. Might be spot on, right? They don't know that yet. Might be completely accurate. Everything they have, the way they have it pegged, what they think happened, they might be completely accurate.

But David's not going to take that for face value. Why would he? I don't want to blame him one bit. He needs more than that. I think it's important as law enforcement to behave above reproach and so treat every crime scene as if there is potential foul play just just so nobody could go back and say that you didn't like period. I tell you, say this all the time. Even when you go to court, you have to not only build your case with supporting evidence, but also investigate or rule out any potential exculpatory evidence that a defense could present. So you're we talk about certain affidavits where they'll go above and beyond to say, we also check this and confirm that this phone call wasn't made. It doesn't

relate to what they're building, but they do that. So it can't be used later. This is the same thing. You're not God. You don't know what happened. You need to make sure that even though you think you're right, you confirm it with actual testing and data and evidence so that anybody who comes along, what if there's there's what if it does turn out to be a murder you need to make sure that you're covering your bases because a defense attorney is going to rip apart your initial investigation if you didn't treat it like that yeah you are not god you are not god reportedly there was another person who claimed to have been a federal agent and this person like arrived to a search and showed David Robinson his badge before telling him that he had seen Daniel the day that Daniel went missing.

But later it was discovered that this person was not a federal agent. And although this guy spoke to both the Buckeye Police Department and Jeff McGrath, the PI, it doesn't appear that the police have brought him in for further questioning after his lack of credibility was discovered. And like, listen, these are not my words, okay? These are like what people on the internet say. People who think that, like, I just want people to be very clear. When it says it doesn't appear he's been brought in for further questioning, like, why would it appear to be that way, right? Because I'm just like Stephanie Harlow. I don't know what

the police are doing on the inside. They very well could have brought this dude in and given him an interview and checked his alibi because I think the implication once again here is that there's some random person trying to insert himself into the investigation, pretending to be like a federal agent and like getting information from police and from the PI because this person is somehow like involved in what happened to Daniel and the police just failed to like pursue him as a lead. But I think if anything, they'd probably want to talk to him because he was, you know, pretending to be a federal agent. So even if they didn't want to talk to him concerning Daniel's disappearance, like they probably want to follow up with him and be like, yo,

why are you pretending to be an FBI agent and like flashing your badge and stuff? So I have a feeling they probably did talk to him. But why would we know about that? The police don't like tell you everything that they're doing behind the scenes. So it's very likely that they did. But hey, it's possible that they didn't. And through financial records, the police were led to that Shell gas station that they claimed Daniel was at before heading to his work sites. And allegedly, they got a picture of him by his Jeep outside.

The people online are saying he was on the wrong side of the car from where he would be if he was pumping gas. And the picture is so blurry that people are like, listen, we can't even tell if this is Daniel or not. Like, why is this picture so blurry? Despite there being multiple cameras, the police have not released any further photographic or video evidence of Daniel being at that gas station. And the same can be said about Daniel's visit to the Waffle House. The Buckeye PD claimed that they have surveillance footage of Daniel inside the restaurant, but they haven't released it, even though they said that they would. Additionally, the police were able to recover text messages from the trash of Daniel's phone. Remember, the text message conversation with Caitlin was in the trash of Daniel's phone. And some people say that this seems to be really convenient. Like, maybe that conversation was left there in the trash specifically to be found,

since almost everything else on the phone was permanently deleted. And we also know that Daniel or somebody went on his own Instagram and erased all of his pictures. Now, once again, I don't understand why somebody who was killing him or abducting him would be like, hey, let me take your cell phone and erase all your Instagram photos, especially if they were a stranger to him. You know, I don't get why that would happen. Totally on board here that we can't have both. We can't have both.

We can't have this well orchestrated hit for Daniel and then also say that this was a random act of violence where he encountered someone in the middle of the desert who he thought was a good person and turned out to be a criminal. You can't have it both ways. There's nothing here that suggests someone had it out for Daniel. You could always pose the argument that he figured out something or knew something that was damaging to a higher authority. I don't see any evidence of it.

And it seems like on the outside, he was kind of, he wasn't high on the totem pole. As far as the work site was concerned. There were other people that were there just like him that he wasn't really doing any like top secret experiments from what we understand. He was working with other colleagues. If he's going to go to the guy that was working with him that day is probably would have been killed too, in a quote unquote tragic accident, if that were the case. So unless he's in on it, Derek, but here's the thing with that because i know you're like kind of saying it with a little bit of sarcasm but i've thought about that

and we've talked about it but that's not just the case here he would have to be in on it the other people at the the workplace would have to be in on it caitlin would have to be in on it the girl at the waffle house would have to be madison yeah madison would have to be on it and oh by the way any didn't you say in first the episode one he like shaved his head and stuff like that like he did all these things like he like cut his hair yeah he got his hair the all these things would have just have to have been some kind of collaborative effort by multiple individuals who have no connection to each other to to to do the carry this out it's very unlikely. I'll go out on a limb and say it's probably not possible that all these different walks of life got together to set up this elaborate thing so that it would look like a situation where Daniel went out and did this to himself when in reality he was murdered.

I don't think that's the case. And in fairness, I don't think David's suggesting that either. So I don't think he's suggesting it outright, I guess. But listen, okay, so check it out. So remember, we were talking about the text messages earlier, like Caitlin's text messages and how like maybe she deleted some stuff and this, this and that. Apparently, the messages submitted by Caitlin in screenshot form do not line up with the call and text logs that David Robinson got from T-Mobile. And apparently, you know, some texts were omitted. And even though the police received a detailed call logs from T-Mobile when Daniel went missing, they were not included in the police report. And David claims that some texts added to the police report do not line up with the T-Mobile logs.

What they do instead is help to set the stage for a mental health narrative. So like reading it that way, it does kind of seem like maybe David thinks the police are actively covering this up when they say like some texts added to the police report do not line up with the T-Mobile logs. That's kind of suggesting like they made some shit up and just like threw it in there to like, you know, set the stage for this mental health narrative, which Daniel's parents have vehemently pushed against. Like they don't even want really a suggestion that something happened here inside of Daniel that caused him to do this to himself. with the 11 miles on the data recorder from the automobile saying, hey, listen, there's been mistakes in this investigation. Not only the duration that passed before they

went out and looked for my son, but there's been things that they've done, whether they were deliberately or accidentally, either way, they affected the outcome of this investigation. And that's what I'm trying to point out here. This has not been investigated appropriately. And therefore, they may have missed something that could change the whole trajectory of this case. I think that's what he's trying to say. I don't know if he's going as deep as saying conspiracy theory, just that there was a lack of professionalism. And there were things that may have been missed, which might have changed the narrative that we're talking about right now. Possibly.

And lastly, although it's believed that the police could get detailed location data for Daniel's cell phone, they have not. They told David that they would need to get a court order to do so and they would be unlikely to get it because of the fact that they don't seem to think that there's foul play in this case. I kind of agree. I think that they should get the pings like the cell phone pings and it'll give us an indication of like Daniel was going and where he was heading, and also maybe an indication of where he went before he went to that work site. It may not answer our questions. It may not solve this, but it will add some context and some depth and shading to this. It'll give us a little bit more indication of where he went for those four hours when we think he's driving around the desert, but they haven't done that. And last year, the Tempe Police Department did a forensic workup on Daniel's cell phone and computer and found that someone had used Daniel's computer after he went missing, but before police

had gained access to his apartment. And a lot of people think this is a very important detail and completely takes away the possibility that Daniel walked off into the desert due to a mental illness. Literally, people say this completely takes away that possibility. But I do happen to remember that the apartment manager said that she had let Daniel's family members into the apartment before police had access to it. And his family members could have logged into Daniel's computer and used it to see if they could find anything, like as you would, if you were looking for your family member, you might open their computer, see what websites they last looked at. Were they on airline websites,

booking up a flight somewhere? Were they looking at specific hotels? Were they having a conversation with somebody? That is what you would do. And since there isn't a specific date given for when the computer was accessed, because we don't have access to that report, we can't say for sure. But I think it's pretty possible that the computer was accessed by family members. Because all of this stuff together does seem to be setting the scene for like, it was some huge like almost government like upper level cover-up where people are going into Daniel's computer and like sneaking into his apartment after he's missing to like delete files and stuff you know like there's an FBI agent with a badge but he's not a real FBI agent it's like some x-files shit happening right here now you know like it's it's

very much like there is suggestions of this huge orchestrated like governmental or like upper level kind of cover-up yeah i wouldn't doubt it with a case like this honestly there's so many questions you wouldn't doubt that people feel that way not that you wouldn't you wouldn't doubt you would doubt that that that is a fact i don't believe that's the case no not that would you presented but i will also say that that is a fact. I don't believe that's the case. No, not that what you presented. But I will also say that that's the whole point of a good conspiracy theory, right? Is to have people like me talking heads being like, yeah, no way that happened. And that's what exactly what they want.

That's what that's what the response would be, right? Like you're playing right into their hand. That's what they want you to say. Yeah, well, I'm saying it. I'm saying it, too. And I love a good conspiracy theory. I just do not see it here. But let's talk about theories. First, let's explore the monk theory. Now, I've never actually heard, an Orthodox monastery in the middle of the Arizona desert, a few miles outside of Florence. It's called St. Anthony, and it was founded in 1995 by six monks from Mount Athos, Greece.

There's currently about 60 monks there, and they lead a life of celibacy and fasting. It sounds awful. But it does not appear that Daniel Robinson is there. Apparently, they checked the monastery. Daniel Robinson is not there. Now, Jeff McGrath claimed that he believed Daniel was tired after an all-night video game binge that he embarked on after Caitlyn rejected him. And after Daniel left the work site that morning, McGrath says that someone, a not- good person, found him. And he doesn't know what this not good person did to Daniel, but McGrath believes that his Jeep was crashed a few times before it was dumped in the ravine.

Some people believe that in the capacity of his job, Daniel may have found out things that he was going to expose about Arizona's groundwater, and so he was killed before he could turn a whistleblower. A CNBC article posted this year claims that developers are planning to build homes west of the White Tank Mountains, which is actually right where that testing site was, but they don't have enough groundwater to move forward with their plans, as the state of Arizona deals with a historic mega drought and extreme water shortages, and they have for a long time. The western United States has been dealing with water shortages for decades. It's got a lot to do with the Colorado River. It's very complicated, but to make matters worse, in a lot of areas, the groundwater has been tainted with chemicals

from nearby power plants and manufacturing plants. According to azcentral.com, quote, For years, industries from dry cleaners to metal factories dumped harmful chemicals around their plants and left a legacy of water polluted with solvents that can cause cancer, damage immune and nervous systems, and lead to birth defects. These chemicals have gradually moved through the aquifer, tainting a source of groundwater that, if cleared up, could someday help the fast-growing city of Phoenix meet its water needs. The plume of contaminated groundwater, called the West Van Buren Site, has been on Arizona's priority list of toxic cleanup sites since 1987. It's part of a larger polluted zone that stretches across 15

miles of central and west Phoenix, end quote. And as I touched on briefly in the previous episode, there's tons of these sites all over Arizona, including around the Buckeye area. So basically, we've got a lot of money on the line with these developers who have basically had to halt multi-billion dollar housing projects in the desert because of a lack of groundwater to support those homes and the people who would live in them eventually one day. Now, developers in this area, they're supposed to show that there's enough groundwater to sustain what they're building for, for basically the next 100 years. And at this point, the developers are like, okay, like right now we don't have enough groundwater, but don't worry about it.

Like technology's coming. We're going to find like ways to purify rainwater. We're going to do all of this stuff. So let us keep building because they've got a lot of money sank into these housing developments. So maybe people are saying if Daniel were to show data that proved the groundwater in that area was not only sparse, but too polluted to drink, there might be some powerful people with a lot of money on the line who would want to see him silenced. So there is that theory that people kind of come across. And I get it. I think that there's something to it, but I just don't think that it would just be Daniel and no one else. Other people who work with him would

have to know the same thing. And wouldn't they be getting taken out and kidnapped and taken off the map? Yeah, there'd be a lot more than just Daniel. There'd be a pattern, I would think, than just little old Daniel. It's going to be the guy they go after. And then, of course, there's the theory that Daniel was having a rough time mentally. He didn't realize what he was doing. He crashed his vehicle, couldn't get it started back up. And then he wandered out into the desert, maybe thinking he was closer to civilization than he actually was. He got lost and sadly fell victim to the elements. So those are kind of, I don't know, if you think that there's other theories of what could have possibly happened, let me know. So I have a few theories and I've been writing them down as we go.

They're all very similar to what you just laid out. So we're not going to repeat it word for word. But obviously, I think the most common one is the one you mentioned last. And I do think there's a lot of credibility in that one. But just the two other ones, the idea that maybe he faked his own death or disappearance. He could have had a separate bag where he packed some extra clothes, maybe laid out his clothes, crashes the car intentionally to create this illusion, throws out his clothes to make it seem like he's out in the middle of nowhere naked.

But in fact, he has a plan to get out of there. Maybe there's a world where he's the one who goes and uses his computer, although I don't think he would have done that. That would have made a lot of sense. But in that being the case, with how much publicity this case has gotten, the way Daniel's face has been plastered all over the Internet, and the fact, let's just be honest, he has one arm. I would think that he would stand out if he was in a public setting anywhere in the country. Someone would know who he is and there'd be sightings of him somewhere. And there hasn't been. And then you also have the theory that there was something more here. This was a murder or at minimum an abduction. There's really no evidence to support

it. There are some things that have been thrown out, but for everything that's been thrown out, as far as the vehicle accident and the data that came with it, there's been a rebuttal from law enforcement. So at the end of the day, it just matters who you believe. I do think that if there were someone else involved with this, there may be more at that site to suggest that, maybe a sign of struggle, maybe some blood, something there. Something there, especially if there were two people in the car when that vehicle crashed. Overall, for me, I do think the most plausible scenario is the last one that you laid out, which is that Daniel was going through a tough time. He may have been under the influence of something, or he just might have had something going on internally.

And this was being compounded by the disappointment he had with how the situation played out with Caitlin. On top of some of the things he was listening to, he was just in a really bad place. And sometimes people are just depressed. They just don't like the way life is going. And he might have not been getting a lot of sleep. Sleep deprivation can really make you act odd as well.

Don't I know? And I think he might have found himself in a situation where he was fed up with some things, decided to go out for a little bit of a joy ride, was probably being pretty reckless because of the situation, maybe a little bit careless as far as his own wellbeing. And he did get into an accident, was trying to find his way back to civilization, got lost, lost his bearings, and unfortunately might've expired from an injury from the vehicle that he didn't realize he sustained or just the environment out there. I did. I will say I looked up animals out in Arizona because we had talked about this off record.

And there was a couple of things. Obviously, you got like scorpions and snakes and all that. So any one of those things, he could have been bitten by a snake or something. He's naked and he has no shoes on, man. Right. And then they also there's I don't know where they would be exactly. I know that we keep calling it the desert, but it does seem like it was a mountainous area.

There was a lot of ridges and things like that. It was rocky. So there are mountain lions in Arizona. I don't know if they're in that specific area. They are. I remember they said they saw a mountain lion when they were searching for him. So that could have been something as well. There's reports of, apparently there's black bears out there.

I don't know if you would find them in that area. I think it would be more of a wood area that you would find them, but mountain lions definitely. So you could have a situation where he was attacked by an animal or after he expires, the animals get a hold of him, which would obviously contribute to them not being able to find him. And I think what's fascinating about this, we were going back and forth on it, but the idea that helicopters and the civil air patrol weren't able to find his truck only four miles away from where he was last seen alive. It's pretty safe to say that if he were laying out there somewhere after a couple of days with sand blowing

around, things like that, it would be extremely hard for them to locate him. And I think that's why David and his team that's gone out and searched for Daniel weeks and weeks and weeks on end have found multiple bodies that are not David's because there have been many people who have gone out there and not come back and law enforcement just couldn't find him until someone like David comes along. So could could Daniel be a victim of that as well? Of course he could. And so this is nothing against anybody, but it does seem like that's the most likely scenario. But that just still leaves us with the fact is where is Daniel now? And I think we need to find him not only for his family, but to get those answers.

Because I do think if we find him, based on science and technology we have today, if predation is not the case here, if his body is still somewhat preserved in a reasonable manner, they could probably determine a cause of death and figure out what happened to him, which I think would give a lot of answers to both the family and everybody else who cares about this case. searching very systematically. If Daniel Robinson is in that desert, it will be David, his father, David, who finds him. It's not going to be law enforcement. It's not going to be the FBI. It's going to be as a result of David Robinson and his tireless searching. And, you know, I think, I mean, if I was Daniel, that's the way I would want it. Honestly, I would want my father to be the one to find me and to be the one leading like the search for me. Because the person who's never going to give up should be your parents. There should always be that relationship between a child and parent where they never give up. And clearly David is not. So whatever happened to Daniel doesn't matter at the end of the day. We need to find him,

bring him home, give his parents and his family some answers. And then from there, we can explore possibilities and potential, you know, theories of what happened to him. But I agree with you. I think that the most likely theory is that he just wasn't. And even somebody in the comments, a bunch of people in the comments said, yes, could be schizophrenia, could be bipolar. That can also sometimes pop up later in life. And I will say that I've dealt with somebody, I've been in a relationship with somebody who is bipolar, and it's very, very difficult. And I feel bad for anybody who has to go through that because you

can't even control it yourself. But the way he was talking to Caitlin did seem a little bit to be reminiscent of conversations I have had with somebody in that mental state. And it's frustrating. So it could be a number of things. Like you said, he could have just been depressed. I think it went further. You don't take your clothes off and go into the desert if you're depressed. I think that maybe he was hoping to have some sort of spiritual, like, you know, mind-altering consciousness kind of experience from this podcast he was listening to because it really seemed to leave a mark with him and probably just got in over his head. Unfortunately, I hope that he's found, but I think it will still take some time.

Agreed. Yeah, no, it's a crazy case. And we said it in episode one, I put it down in the description on both the audio version and the video version. There is a search being organized by David coming up February 25th. I put the link in the last episode. It'll be down in the description below on this episode as well. If you live in the area and you want to help David, we strongly recommend that you do so.

That'll mean the world to him. He wants people there. He needs people there. He needs to see a sign of force. And regardless of whether David agrees with our assessment or not, we're all on the same page as we all want Daniel to come home. And we want to get those answers for him and his family. And the only way to do that is to continue to search because I have seen his Twitter. He's asking, he's inviting law enforcement to come out. He's imploring them to come. He's calling them out a little bit.

My professional opinion, they're not going to come. And I don't think it's necessarily something where they're just being disrespectful to him. You had said it earlier in the episode. They have kept the case open because they haven't found Daniel yet. And they don't know if he's going to be found tomorrow. And if he is, I feel like they'll be all hands on deck again to if he's alive or if he's dead, then they'll obviously do what they can with the body to figure out what happened to him. So that's why they're keeping it open. But I think at this point of the mindset that they believe he got lost out there, something happened, and they may never find him.

And so they have to devote their resources to newer cases that are happening every single day. You guys may not like to hear that, but the reality is there's a lot of David Robinsons out there that have family members who have disappeared or whatever. And there's only so many law enforcement people to go around and so many helicopters and so many planes. So at some point they have to turn their attention to those cases that are continuing to come in every single day. Absolutely. Yeah. So that's where we stand on it. We're hoping the best for David and his family. And we hope that if you guys do go out there, make sure you let us know. We'd love to see some Crime Weekly supporters out there supporting David and his family. And who knows, maybe we'll get some good news soon. I hope we do. Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you guys so much for being here this week. We'll start a new case next week. I think it's a very highly requested one, but you'll have to wait and see. The one we talked about? Yeah. The one we talked about? Cool. The one we talked about. We almost covered it on Breaking Homicide. So I have some knowledge of that one and I was disappointed we didn't. So I'm excited to cover it. Well, I'm so glad you're excited since you were in such a grumpy mood tonight. I'm glad to see some happiness in your eyes. Well, yeah, it happens. Some of us get, you know, we have rough days, I guess. When you were like, sometimes we're just depressed. I was like, okay, Derek.

I'm not going to go drive out to the desert like you're saying I'm going to. Sometimes people just have bad days. But we have a lot going on. We have a lot going on with Crime Weekly, with Criminal Coffee. I have a project that Stephanie knows about that I'm working on that I'm trying to do on my own. So a few different things going on, a few different irons in the fire, but very fortunate to be in the position we're in. And we hope you guys are doing okay. We will see you next week.

Stay safe out there. Good night. Bye.