Crime Weekly - S3 Ep131: The Daybell Doomsday Cult Murders: Pet Cemetery (Part 5)

Episode Date: June 30, 2023

JJ Vallow didn’t have the best start in life. Both of his parents struggled with drug addiction, and so when he was born premature in May of 2012, JJ was also addicted to drugs and it took months for doctors to safely wean him off the substances that had been coursing through his little body. But shortly before his first birthday, JJ was adopted by his uncle, Charles Vallow, and Charles’ pretty young wife, Lori Vallow, who had two children of her own, a son named Colby and a daughter named Tylee. Tylee and JJ hit it off immediately, and Tylee became a best friend and mini mother to her younger half brother. It seemed like JJ and Tylee were a part of one big happy family, so when they both vanished in September of 2019, and their normally attentive and loving mother Lori didn’t seem overly concerned about the fact that two of her children were missing, people started asking questions. But no one could have prepared for the answers we would get. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. Bystanders Available now on Apple Podcasts or at TheBystandersPodcast.com 2. Daily Harvest Go to dailyharvest.com/crimeweekly to get up to sixty-five dollars off your first box. 

Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy Alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking, and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy Alliance today. Hey, are you looking for a true crime podcast to binge? Check out True Crime Obsessed, where we recap the true crime documentaries everyone's talking about. We've been one of the top true crime podcasts for almost nine years. And we have over 400 episodes for you to check out right now.

We cover the cases everyone is talking about, and we also highlight the cases that have been underreported, overlooked, or forgotten. With over 30,000 five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts, if you've never checked out True Crime Obsessed, now's the time to give us a try. Find True Crime Obsessed wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. Today, we are diving into part five of the doomsday cult, Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell, the Church of the Firstborn, whatever they're going by this week. There's no label for this.

It's such a cluster that there is no label, but we are starting part five of whatever it is and it's a it's a very active episode an active episode i'm super interested so i couldn't wait to record tonight because little inside i've been saying all along that i feel like maybe like chad could be more of like the puppeteer and this whole thing and stephanie has been steadfast through these first four parts that's like nope lori lori lori and today because we talk 17 times a day stephanie was in the middle of doing some research and she like will sometimes like speak out loud as she's like doing her research so we're talking she's like hmm chad might be more might be more involved than i originally thought and i was like wait what was that what was that? And you're like, let me, you're like, let me just finish doing this. I'm like, okay. Yes. Yes. But I have a theory about this. So we're going to talk about it, but yeah, dude, it's freaking crazy. Like this was,

this was a very unfortunate situation where two people that never should have met, met. It's like that song. What is like an Eminem song? This is what happens when a tornado meets a volcano. Yeah. This is what happens when a tornado meets a volcano. Absolute chaos and destruction. These two people should never have crossed paths. I still think that Lori was manipulative, but I know for a fact that Chad was too now that I'm seeing things because all this stuff came out during the trial, like texts and stuff that we never really saw or heard. And it's just kind of really letting things fall into place for me a little bit more where it's like neither one of these people had good intentions. What's the same birds of birds of a feather flock together? And I do. I think I think Lori a feather flock together. And I think Laurie was

manipulative. I think Chad was manipulative. He was doing it with other women. I think that's maybe why they got along so well. But I'm interested to see your take on it tonight, now with these new revelations, these new text messages, and then to see how you spin it to still make it the way you think it was. I don't need to spin it. He was head over heels for her. Like he was in, he was like love drunk. He was sprung, okay? There was nothing that could have saved him at this point. I don't believe that she was as like,

you know, she's very cold and detached. Things are more logical for her. I think he really fell like in love, quote unquote, to the point where it was this like Romeo and Juliet style, like I'm going to be with you or I'm going to set the world on fire kind of thing. So we'll get into it. We'll get into it. But before we do, I know you have some things you want to discuss.

Yeah, a few things. So if you watch Crime Weekly News, we give you permission to skip past this part. But if you haven't, because we do have a different audience that watches these episodes. They don't need our permission to skip past this part. You know what I mean? And you know what? As I was saying it, I felt like some people were going to be like, oh, I don't need it. I'll just skip what I want.

But I know we give people shit every week for putting the time stamps in. If you've already seen this part, that's fine. But Criminal Coffee, we have merchandise on there, sweatshirts, mugs, hoodies, everything. Hoodies, sweatshirts, winter hats, scarves. Scarves. So we have a lot of stuff that was more geared towards winter. Stephanie had said a couple weeks ago at the end of the episode, she wants to see some tank tops. We do. We want some summer gear in there. So basically everything that we have in stock right now for criminal coffee, even mugs, everything is on sale right now. You have to use the code. You're going

to see it right here on the screen. Summer 10, all one word, summer 10. You enter that, you get 10% off your order that excludes shipping. And also just to match it, because some of you have already realized the merch is being shipped differently than the coffee. We're doing the same thing for coffee. So if you haven't picked up our coffee yet, or you're someone who wants to stock up on it at the discounted rate, summer 10 as well. And you can pick up the coffee site-wide, whether it's the bundle or just the individual bags, you can pick that up. K-Cups are still unfortunately not in stock, but they will be very soon. I'm hoping within the next maximum two weeks, they'll be back in stock and we'll have

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You can use the code. It'll still work on both. But if you're just buying coffee or you're just buying merch, no problem at all. Add the stuff to the cart. Use the code. You're good to go. Get it while it lasts

because the merchandise, we are not going to fulfill those low inventory orders. The stock, I should say, on sweatshirts until when it gets a little colder again. But the good news is that Stephanie's got a whole thing coming on that's going to fill those spots. And if you haven't already seen Crime Weekly News, she'll tell you about it now. Extra, extra. Read all about it. Get it while it's hot. Sorry. It is midnight, so I'm going to give you a pass.

So I know we're just starting at midnight. What's wrong with us? What's wrong with us? But yeah. So I want tank tops. I want crop tops and I want like cute little zip ups in like lighter, lighter material, you know, like bonfire kind of attire, maybe cute little shorts. So those are the things that I'm going to be working with JNR Marketing to put into our shop for the summer. So grab the sweatshirts, grab the hoodies, grab all of those things. Now you'll get a deal 10% off because some of those things probably won't be coming back next year. We just won't know until- If certain colors didn't sell or whatever or sizes, we're not going to- And I know that a couple of the colors and things are just more difficult to get.

Oatmeal. Oatmeal is one of them. Oatmeal. Oatmeal Heather. I can't tell you how many times I've heard oatmeal Heather. Yeah. That one's tough to find, but we will, a lot of it, some, not a lot of it, some of it will come back in stock. But if there's certain things you want, we don't do a ton of discounts on there for that because again, we're donating a portion of the proceeds for coffee to that. So we want to make sure that we have that covered. But if you want to get it, now's a great time to get it. It's a good deal on everything. So appreciate the support.

We're going to have announcements very soon. I actually haven't even filled in Stephanie on the latest update with Preble Penny. I will when we're not recording. But there's been some updates there and we will have updates for you guys. I'm hoping, based on what I was told, unless it gets

pushed again by the end of July. So let's hope we have those announcements and then onto the next case. Yep, absolutely. So should we dive in? I think we're ready. I want to hear this. I want to hear all these new revelations. I'm ready for it. All right, here we go. So the chain of events started in July of 2019. This whole like everybody just starts getting picked off. It kind of started in July of 2019 with the death of Charles Vallow, Lori's husband. And what followed is what prosecutors have described as Chad and Lori just taking out people in their lives who were obstacles to their relationship. After Charles, an attempt was made on the life of Brandon Boudreau, the husband of Lori's niece, Melanie. And actually, so after Charles, Tylee died, and then JJ died. And then there was an attempt made on Brandon Boudreau's

life. And then there was another attempt made on the life of Tammy Daybell. It was unsuccessful. And then finally, Tammy Daybell ended up dying in her sleep, is what Chad claimed, or what Chad told the police. But what really happened is she was asphyxiated. And it's believed that most, if not all, of these attacks were carried out by Alex Cox, Lori's brother. And he did this, all of these things, at the behest of Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. In November of 2019, Alex would be designated as Lori's protector by Chad in a patriarchal blessing. Alex had been told that he'd been exalted nine times. He'd been a sibling to Lori twice. And after his fourth creation, Alex and Lori had become eternal companions, with his one mission being to help Lori. Detectives would later find

an audio file of this patriarchal blessing on one of Lori's iCloud accounts, because she had several phones that she was using. But in it, you can hear Chad telling Alex that he was a missionary who would open the portals of time. And Alex would be known throughout the world for his ability to save souls throughout the universe using these portals. And Chad said that Alex had been a warrior fighting for truth and righteousness in his past lives. And he would always seek to do what was right. A patriarchal blessing technically is a spiritual guidance blessing that's usually associated with the LDS church, and this blessing will be performed by the stake patriarch. So Chad

technically didn't even have the credentials to give this blessing, but he claimed he was doing it in the name of the church of the firstborn. So in LDS theology, the church of the firstborn refers to a group of people who've been exalted and who have reached the highest level of spiritual development and communion with God. And Chad and Lori's religious beliefs in this church of the firstborn, the beliefs that they taught to other people, included the concept of the 144,000, which represents the number of people who will be chosen or saved during the end times. This is from the book of Revelations. They believed that souls were light or dark, but all souls were light in the premortal realm. And once they came to this planet Earth, which by the way, according to Chad and Lori, is one of the five worlds that exist. Once they came to Earth, the souls, they would make contracts either with the savior, which would make them a light soul or with Satan, which would make them a light soul, or with Satan, which would make them a dark soul.

Now on the fifth world, aka Earth, they claimed that there's a two-minute window for a demon to take over somebody's body once they die. And once that happened and a demon like slid in in that two-minute window, the person would now become a zombie. Chad and Lori also took part in castings. This was a term they taught their inner circle. And during these castings, they would use the power of God to pull an evil spirit from a human body. And according to the people who took part in these castings, once a spirit is forced from the body, the physical body must then be destroyed in one of two ways, burning the body or taking it apart and escorting the spirit away

from the body. And this is important to remember, and we're going to circle back to this towards the end of the episode when we talk about the state that Tylee's remains were found in. So on July 10, 2019, Charles Vallow flew from Houston, Texas, where he was living, to Chandler, Arizona, where Lori was living with JJ and Ty Lee, with the specific purpose of obviously seeing JJ, but also he wanted to stage an intervention for his estranged wife, Lori. He'd already contacted several of Lori's own family members to ask for their help in a last-ditch attempt to get through to Lori and bring her back from her extreme religious beliefs. According to Lori's brother, Adam Cox, and Adam's

son, Zach, Charles was planning to try and have Lori excommunicated from the LDS church, hoping that if she could no longer go to temple, she would snap out of it and come back to reality. Unfortunately, Lori got the heads up about this intervention from Janice Cox, her mother, and she made sure that her other brother, Alex Cox, was present at her home when Charles showed up on July 11th, and Alex was armed with a.45 caliber handgun. Charles arrived to Lori's house at 7.35 a.m. that morning, and at that time, Alex was there as well as Lori, JJ, and Tylee. Seeing that Alex was present when he pulled in, Charles texted Lori's other brother, Adam, to let him know, and Adam responded that Charles should be careful because he felt his brother and sister were planning something,

to which Charles responded, absolutely. But then Adam never heard from Charles Vallow again. At 7.49 a.m., Lori Vallow took Charles' rented SUV and she left the house with JJ and Tylee. She was supposedly bringing JJ to school. But it was also at this same time that it's believed Charles was shot by Alex Cox twice in the chest. Lori first went to Burger King to get some food for JJ.

She went to Walgreens next to buy some flip-flops for herself and Ty Lee, and then she dropped JJ off at school, and she didn't get back home with Ty Lee until 8.48 a.m. This was just 14 minutes after Alex Cox called 911 to report the shooting, even though it is believed that Charles was shot at 7.49 a.m. right as Lori was leaving, because both Lori and Tylee would later tell the police that they heard a shot as they were leaving. 911, where is your emergency? It's at 5531 South Four Peaks. Yes. Do you need police or paramedics?

Both. I'm in police and an ambulance. What's the emergency there? There was a fight with my brother-in-law, and I shot him in self-defense. Okay. Let me get the medics on the phone. I don't like to overanalyze 911 calls, right? A lot of people do that voice analysis.

He was very calm, collected in that, to me. I don't know if it says much. It sounds like if it was something that was unexpected, there may be more of a sense of urgency. It sounds more, matter of fact, kind of like a, oh, listen, I guess I have to call. That's like the proper thing to do. But it doesn't really sound like there's a sense of urgency, like maybe he's still alive, which could suggest that maybe a small period of time has passed since he decided to call law enforcement. And at this point, it's more of a formality for law enforcement to come as opposed to maybe saving Charles's life.

So I know you had said some things about laurie and and ty lee potentially being there as well and i'm sure we're going to dive into that but just looking at the the phone call itself seems a little odd to me the way it was so it was almost like he was calling about loud music out in the street you know it didn't really seem like he was calling because he had just shot and killed his brother-in-law in self-defense according to him yeah because it's self-defense your thing and you know we're going to talk about that, but there's some, like, huge fight. You got adrenaline going. He's totally, like, chill about it.

Like, he could be calling about. Emotionless. Yeah, like, he just got a. That's the type of temperament you would expect with, like, someone who just got in a fender bender. Yeah. Yeah. And this means, like, honestly, Charles bled out on the floor of Lori's house for 43 minutes before the police were called. But we do know, according to cell phone records, that although Alex wasn't calling the police during those 43 minutes, he did call his sister Lori.

And when the paramedics arrived at 8.40 a.m., it was too late. Charles was gone. Now, when Alex had initially called 911, he was given instructions on how to perform life-saving measures on Charles. But when the paramedics arrived and started CPR, they said that they knew that these life-saving measures had not been done, even though Alex told the dispatcher he was doing it, because they said they felt the crack of Charles' sternum or rib. And this indicated that Alex hadn't done anything. And also the paramedics had blood all over their hands from doing CPR because Charles had been shot in the chest

and Alex didn't have any blood on his hands. So clearly he had not tried to save his brother-in-law's life. Now, when the police questioned Alex about what had happened, he said that Charles had come over and picked a fight with Lori and gotten physically violent with Lori entirely. And Alex claimed that Charles had come over and picked a fight with Lori and gotten physically violent with Lori and Tylee. And Alex claimed that Charles had charged him with a baseball bat and hit him on the back of the head with the baseball bat. So Alex had shot Charles in self-defense.

And when Lori and Tylee arrived, the police also spoke to them and once again found out that Lori and Tylee had heard a gunshot as they were leaving the house, which to me is like the weirdest thing to say, because it's like, yeah, we knew that, you know, Charles and Alex were fighting and we knew that Charles had a baseball bat and then we heard a gunshot. But then we went to Burger King and Walgreens and didn't do anything about it, you know. No, the whole thing is very odd. Yeah, if I hear a gunshot, I'm probably going to turn around and go back inside to see what it was. Or call the police. At minimum, call the police. But if you hear the gunshot coming from inside your home, and they must have known at that point the only two people there were Alex and Charles, wouldn't you want to go see what the hell just happened? Was there an accident? Was there an accident? Was there an accidental discharge? Anything.

Is everyone okay? Was it a gunshot? Was it something else? It doesn't seem like you'd go, all right, whatever. But you're saying that whatever they heard, they thought it sounded like a gunshot? Yeah, they said, oh yeah, we heard a gunshot.

Yeah, that's interesting. Husband, estr a strange doesn't live here he lives in texas she's visiting because it was a dv earlier this morning brother kind of broke him up said the phys it was getting a little bit physical with the with the wife yeah his wife and husband uh she's kind of separated again he lives out of state i don't know why he's here to visit i don't i know it goes deep though ultimately he came over they got into a verbal argument wife husband got into a verbal argument brother steps in says just get the out at some point the niece grabs the bat who's poking her dad dad takes the bat away they decide to leave everyone leaves oh there's a son, too. A younger son. Her son, he's not here either. So, wife who lives here, her daughter, her son, they all leave.

Her brother, staying here, visiting, and the husband. They get into it. He says they got into an argument. Husband hit him in the head with a bat. The brother says, fuck that. Goes to his room, grabs his gun, his own gun, goes back out, doesn't stay in the room, doesn't lock the door, doesn't call us, but goes back out, confronts him, says, drop the bat. Guy just dropped the bat. He says he shoots him. Goes back into his room, puts his gun away, grabs his phone, cleans his head up, calls 911. So some serious issues with this body cam footage as

far as what they're saying, right? And it's Alex's own recount of what happened. I think most people who watch True Crime are familiar with this. There is a stand your ground law in Florida, but even then, standing your ground is subjective. And in this case, it's clear that as a form of self-defense, the way Alex described it, what he had done wasn't in the form of self-defense. There was an opportunity for him to retreat. There was an opportunity for him to get out of the area and call law enforcement if needed. That is not what he did. Again, this is all stuff that most of you are probably going, yeah, Derek, we get it. So he goes back to his room.

He grabs a firearm. He re-engages with the person that he's having this disagreement with who had just assaulted him allegedly. So at that point, what he should have done is retreated, left the building, called law enforcement, filed a police report. He went back out, re-engages with the individual and shoots him. And that is not by definition, self-defense. That is offensive and that's murder. So I think that without saying

it directly, that's what law enforcement here, the officers kind of explaining, like he didn't call us, he didn't notify us. He grabbed his gun, goes back out there, reinitiates the fight, or tells him to drop the bat and ends up shooting him. Even if Charles at that point charged him with the bat, he re-engaged with Charles with the gun. If that, if we're to believe everything he's saying is true and it still wouldn't classify as a form of self-defense. So a lot. He doesn't, he didn't get arrested. So. That's crazy. Now I will Now, I will say this.

In these moments, if it's not clear, if it's not absolutely clear, if there's any question about what's going on, especially with something like this, law enforcement, they have all the information. It's very easy to gather everything. This is a big case, right? You're talking about possibly self-defense or murder. So there's nothing wrong. And I actually am not even

completely against this, even though everything I said, I stand by a hundred percent. It's something where it, because of the magnitude, the significance of the case and the potential charges, you'd gather all the information. You do a really good report. You take a lot of evidence, photos, video interviews, everything you can, you make a nice packet and you allow the attorney general district to look at it the next day and decide whether or not to file charges. There's plenty of time to do so, but you still have to treat it as a potential murder at the time of the investigation. Your eyebrows going up a little bit.

I don't know if that was the case or not, but I don't have an issue with them putting handcuffs on someone that day, but I'm interested to hear what you have to say about what was done at least in the day in question as far as the event itself. Well, they obviously took him into the station, right? And questioned him and then he was let go. Nothing happened and nothing happened. He wasn't arrested. They said, okay, it's self-defense. That makes sense. It doesn't make any sense to me. What the hell is wrong with the Rexburg Police Department? And you literally have Lori and Tylee saying like, well, yeah, we heard a gunshot and we left and we went to Burger King and

freaking Walgreens. None of this makes sense. And you're going to hear in a minute, I might have a clip where there's a detective and he's like, oh yeah, it was all suspicious right from the get. What are you talking about? So they all in hindsight are talking about how it's like suspicious and stuff but like alex did not get arrested and let's say he had been arrested for charles valo's murder right which he should have been because that's what it was agreed let's say he did like nobody else dies at this point i really don't think laurie and chad are going to find anyone else who's as willing to do their dirty work as Alex was. I mean, they did have a following where who knows, but I hear what you're saying.

It's all women, women who are like parents and stuff, you know, basically. It's like all women and then Chad and Alex. Okay, so Alex is the enforcer. Chad is the king cult leader. And then it's just a bunch of women. And not one of those women, I'm sorry, was going to be like, yes, let me murder your husband, Chad's wife, and your children. That sounds like exactly what I would do. Not one of them would do that, honestly. I think they just all like to feel special. But Alex was the one who was willing to do anything for Lori. Anything. Yeah. I'd have to look up the self-defense law in Arizona. It was Arizona

we're talking about here. So obviously every state is different. What's interesting is that- No, Rexburg, Idaho. Am I wrong? No. Is it Rexburg? It's not Rexburg. Where were they? Chandler. Chandler, Arizona. You're right. Yeah. I thought it was Arizona that I had seen. So Arizona it is. And so we're looking at a situation here where even if it's a stand your ground state, I don premeditated thing done by multiple people, right? You have to approach their stories with some level of skepticism, especially when it doesn't make sense for someone to hear a gunshot and just leave. But that aside, if Alex is telling the truth about everything, it doesn't sound to me. He's not.

But even if he is, the version that this police officer just told another officer, his colleague doesn't sound like self-defense to me. It sounds like murder. It sounds like he was assaulted. He was upset with what happened. He goes in, he gets his gun, goes back out there, re-engages in an altercation with this individual. But now one person has a bat. One person has a gun. You reinitiated the argument. You reinitiated the altercation. There should be some responsibility for that. I don't know how he walked away from this without being charged. I don't know either, dude. And it seems that Lori almost did have some sort of God in her corner because every time she has interactions with

the police, it's like they give the blinders on and they don't know. And there's a lot of people who agree with me that the Chandler police should be charged in some way for the murders of these children, for the murder of Tammy Daybell as well, because Alex should have been arrested and Lori should have been charged as an accessory because that's what happened. Charged or sued? The police should be held responsible in some way. Responsible, sued. I mean, it could be sued for sure by remaining family members. I'm with you there. I mean, I haven't got there yet as far as the story, where we're going to go with this, how it's going to go.

And I truly don't know all the specifics. But just looking at this in a vacuum, what we're talking about right now, what I just saw with my own eyes and heard with my own ears, a police officer explaining Alex's version that he just heard to another colleague, which is probably going to be your most accurate representation of what was told to him directly. This is being recorded. It's right on video. To me, that sounds like an altercation that escalated. One guy got the better of the other guy. You had a felony assault potentially with the bat if that happened, right? You could kill someone with a bat. So felony assault there. And then you have retaliation where the individual goes and grabs

his gun where he easily could have walked out of the residence and called police. He had the opportunity to flee the area and not have to defend himself. He wasn't in fear of his life. He re-engaged with a firearm and ends up killing the other guy. That to me sounds like a murder or at minimum, you're talking manslaughter. You're talking some type of, you're talking something where, where you could, you could, you could claim crime of passion, right? You go back out there in the moment. You're not thinking maybe, maybe that route, but to walk away, scot-free self-defense. Yeah. Yikes. And I mean, it gets worse. I'm not even done telling you. It gets worse.

Like, they did an autopsy and they were like, I'll tell you. We're going to get there. But before we continue on, let's take a quick break. Hey, are you looking for a true crime podcast to binge? Check out True Crime Obsessed, where we recap the true crime documentaries everyone's talking about. We've been one of the top true crime podcasts for almost nine years. And we have over 400 episodes for you to check out right now. We cover the cases everyone is talking about, and we also highlight the cases that have been underreported, overlooked, or forgotten. With over 30,000 five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts, if you've never checked out

True Crime Obsessed, now's the time to give us a try. Find True Crime Obsessed wherever you get your podcasts. Great. So we're back. It's also important to note that when Lori comes back home and Charles is dead and there's like police there, she seems completely unfazed. She does not seem upset at all by what just happened and by the detectives who were there she was described as being happy-go-lucky, laughing and making jokes. Lori, JJ and Tylee were all home at the time. As police questioned Lori she didn't appear rattled or upset, even laughing at one point. How long have you lived here? Like three weeks. Oh geez yeah okay. That's why the neighbors don't know us. Gotcha.

Like hi neighbor, sorry. Arizona detectives say throughout Lori's interview with police, she wasn't phased. It was kind of like a happy go lucky. She was just kind of smiling. She was talking about how Tylee was gonna go to BYU Hawaii. And it was just a very, very nonchalant, you would have thought that we just, you know, recovered their stolen vehicle. Cox is shown here dabbing at a wound he says he got after Charles hit him with the bat.

It definitely didn't appear that he was struck with, you know, an extreme amount of force to a baseball bat. Charles was a very physically fit man and actually a former college ball player. So it didn't appear that it was a huge strike to the head. So much to unpack here. I mean, I agree with everything. What was that? What was that? Who is that gentleman that we see speaking there?

So I don't know who that dude is, like specifically his name. He's a detective. Yeah, he looks like law enforcement. Yep. And everything he's saying is completely accurate. Right. However, he's acting like, oh, we saw all this. We saw all this.

Like this did not make any sense. She was acting so suspicious and that wound did not match up with what he said happened. But Alex wasn't arrested. So what are you talking about? What are you talking about acting like now? Like you've got it all figured out and you knew from the get and no one had you fooled.

Well, then why wasn't this dude arrested? Maybe he's not from Chandler. He is. He says he was there. He was like, I don't know. and you knew from the get and know when I had you fooled, then why wasn't this dude arrested? Maybe he's not from Chandler. He is. He says he was there. He was like, I don't know. I don't know, maybe. He might not be from Chandler.

He might be like I would be where you have a law enforcement person from another department being a talking head, talking about basically what he's observing on the footage. So I would highly doubt that he would be on there saying what he's saying. Maybe. If that were the case, it's completely contradictory of their actions.

Like he's saying nothing matched up, but he's probably not Chandler. If he is, wow. If we just go back to that, because that is just mind blown right now. Wow. But everything that that gentleman just said that hopefully isn't a member of Chandler PD is accurate, where she's very passive about it, making a joke, laughing. Her husband was just killed. Regardless of past things that have happened, her brother just killed her husband. You would think she'd be a little bit more emotional over it. But take that aside. The other part is more important when you're looking at the

facts of the case. Dude, did you see when she was like, we just moved here, the neighbors are going to be like, what the hell is going on with these people? Hey neighbors. Like she's so weird. Yeah. She's weird. But to me, the most important part of that clip is, is the injury, right? You have someone, former baseball player, even if they're not, you hit someone in the head with a baseball bat. Yeah. You hit someone in the back of the head with a baseball bat. They're either unconscious or they're, they're going to be seriously injured, especially if they hit him even like a decent amount of force. So for all we know, Alex could have taken his head and just whacked it in the back of a wall or something on the corner of something right after he shot Charles. So I have a suspicion that when you get into autopsies, things like that, the ballistics

probably won't match up the way the story was told by Alex, but we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong. But again, to reiterate, I don't mind no arrest being made at that moment. You see that happen all the time, but usually there are charges brought against that person later once all the facts and circumstances are collected. So I don't mind that there wasn't an initial arrest, but the fact that you're telling me even after a thorough investigation. Well, obviously there was no thorough investigation because. If it wasn't, it wasn't that thorough if it was time, that's for sure. Or man, I guess maybe I'm missing something here, but the injury is not consistent with

someone who would have been in fear of their life. Alex's own statement is someone who reinitiated the argument, didn't walk away from it. He wasn't being struck when he decided to shoot Charles Vallow. So there's nothing here that would make me say self-defense, but yeah, there we are. And Alex was never charged even after the fact with it, which is, I would love to hear the DA's or the AG's reasoning behind that. I guess based on maybe Arizona law, but I don't even think that would qualify. What is Arizona law? That the person who shot somebody dead said the word self-defense?

So it's automatically self-defense? Case closed? And even if they have stand your ground, like a similar stand your ground, I don't even think that would qualify him to stand your ground. He didn't stand his ground. He left. He left and got his gun and came back. He left the room.

He was like, hold on, hold on a second. Right. And then what? He wasn't pursued by the dude with the bat? Like, come on. Like there's, you know, you have situations and there's still, there's still some, you know, there's still arguments about it, but you have situations where you see on video, like in Florida, where someone's outside, they're getting robbed by someone and the person just is, it's just using their fist and someone will pull out

their gun and shoot the guy. And that person will not be arrested, right? Because they don't have, they don't have to flee, even though the person robbing them is only using their fist. If they're in fear of their life, they have the right to defend themselves. You may or may not agree with that, but that is how standing your ground works where where you don't have to retreat or at least attempt to than likely, especially in Rhode Island, I'm getting arrested. I'm getting arrested for murder. Oh, yeah, New York too. 100%. Yo, if I shoot them in the front in New York, I'm getting arrested.

A dude, a murderous dude literally has to, I have to allow him to like come into my house and rush me. And then even then I might be like pushing my luck. You could be, you could be. Yeah. So we don't, we don't have that. And also important to know, this isn't even Alex's house. It's Lori's house, right? So I was going to ask you about that. He said he retreated into his room. No, he, she brought him over preemptively knowing charles was coming and he brought a gun once again no investigation but the cop didn't say that right the cop sounded like he said he went into his room what the hell he's talking about okay he went and made probably the guest room where he was like staying but alex came over the night before spent the night brought a gun

yep yeah that's a that's a problem the problem i mean unless he's got a concealed carry he did he had a concealed carry so he may carry all the time i'm okay with that but even even take that out of the equation just look at the small situation i'm not gonna repeat it again there wasn't an there wasn't a situation where he was in fear of his life and had to act there was no other there was no other choice so it's that simple for me. And then get this, the same day Charles Vallow is shot dead in Lori's home by Lori's brother, she threw a pool party, according to the neighbors and the property manager, Joe Pongratz, who received reports about loud music and lots of people swimming that day. Lori threw a pool party the day that her husband, not her ex-husband, her current husband was shot dead in her house.

What do you want me to say about that? I don't know. Do you think that the Chandler police did an investigation here? So here's the thing. Absurd what you just said. Would that be part of my investigation? Maybe. I just think I guess what I'm saying is like we already have enough alex had no right to shoot charles valo it wasn't justified under what he explained so everything else is icing on the cake but yeah yeah this is like i left when i heard a gunshot anyways pool party the pool part left when i heard the gunshot went to walgreens got some chicken fries from burger king and then um and on the invitation like like it says Lori and Charles invite you over. But she just scratched out Charles, sent it.

It's messed up. It's messed up. Too soon. Too soon. Which is what somebody should have told her about that pool party. So the next day after the pool party, the Chandler police interviewed Alex, Lori, and Tylee at the station to see if their version of events lined up for the previous day. And Lori claimed that Charles had gone after her and Charles had gone after Tylee and Tylee supported this story.

He came. He was very nasty when he was there, but he travels for business. So he went back to the Houston house and he's like, I'm coming on Wednesday night and I'm gonna come pick up JJ and take him to school Thursday pick him up Thursday take him Friday whatever I said Casey wanted to come to the house and I said you can't come stay at this house because you can't get along with Tylee she's a minor she has to live here yeah so you can see gets in huge fights up there okay and she hates him and so like you can't stay at the house so I would book you a hotel because he stays in hotels all the time because he travels for business and the

business pays for it. So this morning he comes back in and. He comes back in. I went to give him his phone. He was screaming at me to give him his phone. He was very worried about whatever was on his text that he did not want me to see. So I was just holding it there and he was screaming at me and I was kind of walking towards around the house with it so he couldn't get it. He's like reaching for it and stuff like that and so Tylee came out of her room upset and she had a bat and she told him to leave her mother alone like right so she was really whatever and he's screaming at her don't you hit me with that bat and blah blah blah and then my brother heard all the commotion because he was in there. And so he came out into the main room and, um, I guess whatever. What's your brother's

name? Alex. Alex. Okay. And then, um, he just started, he was screaming and he was super upset and whatever and he's yelling at Tylee, don't you attack me with that bat and blah blah blah. And so Tylee I guess, I don't know, she swung at him or what, but he like grabbed the bat from Tylee and then went to hit Tylee with the bat. It was, and I was right there, they were right there, and my brother grabbed him from behind like just to stop him from hitting Tylee. Did he go like this, like, he grabbed him, like? Yeah, from behind, like, just kind of to pull him back.

And then they got into the thing, and he's hitting him with the bat, and they're on the ground, like, grappling around or whatever. And then, I mean, it was all quickly. And he hit your brother with the bat while they were grappling and stuff? Yeah. Yes, he was hitting him with the bat, like swinging the bat, you know, back and forth. And they were kind of like on the ground. And I was like freaking out trying to go around.

Okay, fascinating clip. And, you know, there are people who are more equipped to probably discuss this. They do it for a living. But there is something there for me that I notice, a couple things with her body language that I think are worth pointing out. First off, closed legs, that could be just her natural posture. Don't want to do into it. But it also could be looked at as being kind of bladed off, kind of closed.

She has her hands. She's kind of rubbing her hands together. But one thing that I notice when she's talking to this interviewer about Tylee's feelings about Charles, and then also Charles, the fact that he stays in hotels a lot and they cover the expenses, she does that right up to that point. Yeah, she does air quotes. Yeah, if you're looking at her, and again, we're looking, it's not some obvious thing usually. It's just a minor difference. Look at her body language when she's talking about that and how she's looking directly at the interviewer for most of it.

It's only about the first 20 seconds of it. But she's looking at her and she's just regurgitating something from memory. It's something that Charles probably did in fact say. Tylee genuinely may not like Charles. And when she's talking about business expenses and Charles staying in a hotel, there's nothing mischievous about that. So it's easy just to say it and just to look at the person in the eye and say exactly how you remember it. As soon as they switch over to what happened, the chain of events between Charles and Alex and Tylee-

She's less confident. She's less confident, but watch her eyes. Just watch her eyes the entire time. She very seldomly even looks at the interviewer. She's looking off to the left. She's looking off to the right. She's not making eye contact. She's not confident what she's saying. And it's just a small, subtle change. And it shows a level of uncomfortability. She's got some anxiety about it. And it could be because it's just an uncomfortable situation or it could be because she's not completely confident in what she's saying and she's, she's making it up as she goes along. So she's looking down a lot when she's recalling this whole time. She's just like, she doesn't want to look up at all. Yeah. Now, now the reason we've talked about this before, where you develop a baseline is the baseline in this little small clip. And if you had more, you could put more of it together is when she's talking about something that's, you know, most likely is true, you know, Tylee's feelings about Charles. And then the fact that Charles usually

stays in hotels. There's no reason to lie about that. So that's your baseline. That's your control questions. Cause it's nothing, there's no consequence for those answers, right? She's just building the backstory. So she's able to say it and just talk directly to the interviewer because she's not thinking about what she's saying before saying it. When it switches over and there is a cut there in the video where we're speeding up to get to the part where she starts to recap the incident, you see an immediate change. Right before, as she's going like this, she's looking at the camera, then there's a jump cut. And then if you're watching on video here, she's looking down at her hands. She's kind of a little bit more reserved, a little bit more closed off. And as

she's going through it, there's only a few moments where she glances up at the interviewer and then goes back down to it. So telling, very telling. And again, it's minor. It's not some like obvious thing where everyone goes, yes, she's lying. But that little change in behavior may be suggestive of deception. Yeah. I mean, we know that she's being deceptive. change in behavior may be suggestive of deception. Yeah. I mean, we know that she's being deceptive. Right. Right. And then meanwhile, right, Charles Vallow's two sons, they're attempting to get a hold of him because they talk to him like every day, but he's not responding. And Lori would not tell these kids. Well, they're not kids at this point. They're like, you know, older teenagers and young adults, but she would not let them know that their father was gone until over 36 hours after his death. And she informed them via a text message sent on Friday, July 12th at 4.26 PM. The text said, quote, hi boys, I have very sad news.

Your dad passed away yesterday. I'm working on making arrangements and I'll keep you informed with what's going on. I'm still not sure how to handle things. Just want you to know that I love you and so did your dad. Heart emoji, end quote. Obviously, Charles' sons replied, asking for more information, asking what happened, asking how JJ was, asking what funeral home their father was at, but Lori did not respond. On Friday, July 12th at 6.54 p.m., one of Charles' sons texted Lori, quote, Lori, what the fuck happened? You can't just tell us our dad died and disappear. You're not too busy to just let us know how he died and disappear, end quote. Several hours later, at 8.20 p.m., Lori texted, quote, I'm sorry you are so upset. I'm upset too. I'm trying to get JJ ready for bed.

I'm waiting to hear back from the medical examiner to make sense out of all of this myself. Please be patient with me. It's a crushing situation all the way around. I'm still trying to process it too and what it means for JJ. End quote. Once again, Charles' sons sent Lori several texts and they were like, that's not good enough. What's going on? What happened? How did he die? And when she finally responded, Lori did not answer that question of how Charles died. She said she was still working on making the arrangements and sorting things out the best she could. On Saturday, July 13th, Charles's son said, quote, why aren't you telling me what happened? I've asked numerous times, just tell me, end quote. Lori did not respond at all. And on Monday, July 15th, Charles' son wrote, quote, Okay, Lori, it's been three days. You let us know that our father passed away over a text message.

Three days and we haven't heard from anyone. The only information we have is that one text from you saying he passed away. You disappeared after that. We need any information you have. When did it happen? How did it happen? Where is he now? Are there any funeral plans and can we be a part of it? We talked to him all the time and now he's gone. He was our dad and we loved him very much. We deserve answers. Also, why have you been the only one to contact us? We haven't heard from Colby or Tylee. I know they're affected too. I called Colby recently too, but he didn't answer. Is JJ safe and what does he know? I need to be kept in the loop about this all. This isn't a nonchalant topic you can just throw a text at and be done with it. End quote. Lori eventually responded, quote, these are your

dad's wishes. He and I discussed this a lot over the years we've been together. My plan is to have him cremated as he wished and then take all five of you kids to Hawaii to spread his ashes. He did not want a funeral. He wants a celebration of his life. I've been overwhelmed, but I'm going to try to start these arrangements today. JJ is doing good, but he does not know his daddy is gone. It's so tough because he doesn't really understand. He says daddy is in California working. I know how much he loves you boys and always has. I have a lot of things to do with this business and contacting people, and it's also difficult. Today, I'm trying to put up a memorial page on the Funeral Home website. I'll send you the link when I have it. I love you.

And so does your dad. End quote. What a bitch. So Charles's sons continue to ask Lori what exactly had happened, but she never responded because she wanted it to seem as if Charles had like died from natural causes. She's like, I'm still waiting to hear back from the ME to figure out what happened. Your brother shot him twice. What do you mean to figure out what happened? He was shot to death. What do you need to know from the medical examiner? She did not want them to know that it was Alex, her brother, who had shot their father to death. So then the boys are like, okay, thanks for the information about this memorial service in Hawaii. Can we have our father's watch collection? Can you send it to us? And Lori's like, oh, yeah, of course I can.

I'll get right on that. So one son of Charles Vallow told East Idaho News, quote, my dad had a collection of watches, very fancy watches. He wore nice watches for years and years, so I thought she was going to send me some of them. The package arrived, and inside were two cheap Timex watches you'd find at CVS. Anything that was worth money, we didn't get. I'm assuming she sold everything else. End quote. When they didn't get the answers that they wanted from Lori or any answers from Lori, the boys figured out what funeral home Charles was at and they

actually went there physically to speak with the funeral home director, who they claimed was very shaky and nervous. And when they asked for information about their father, the director said he'd been instructed to not give them any. Yeah, this whole thing is shady. I mean, obviously delivering the message that your father's been killed or has died via text, probably not the way to do it, right? I mean, definitely something wrong there. Everything that she responded, there's red flags all the way through. And maybe I'm being too harsh here,

but I also feel like without even knowing the specifics of how your father died, you're already asking about his watch collection. I was a little turned off by that as well, if I'm being honest. Maybe I'm going to get hate for that. But it's like, we want to know what happened to our dad. And they're like, I'm working on it. It's it it's like okay but in the meantime can you send us his watch collection I mean maybe they just wanted something of his you know it's like yeah maybe

I'm being too critical man it's fine but and maybe there's more context in between there obviously you're giving us the story you're not giving us every single little detail of the conversations that happened between them so if I'm being too hard, I apologize. I'm not trying to be insensitive. I know the reason why you put that in there is more so like, hey, they wanted something of their fathers. And when they got it, all the expensive stuff was gone. It's more about Lori than it is about them.

So I said it. I'm not condemning anyone, but it just sounded a little weird. Like, oh, OK, well, also, can you send the expensive watch collection? But yeah, everything that Lori had to say and the fact that she's omitting, working out the details. She's just not answering. They're asking directly, what happened? How did he die? You know for certain.

And she will not answer. You know for certain. Let's say she's being honest. You know for certain that your brother shot him. So at minimum, you can say there was an altercation. Your dad got abusive with me and Ty Lee. Alex, your uncle, technically, if you want to put it that way, not really. My brother got into it with him, was defending us, and during the altercation, he shot him into self-defense. We're still working on the specifics. It's being investigated. I'll let you know, But that's what I'm being told so far.

Like to not even say that. Well, she's not going to say that. She's not going to say that, though, because Charles has been saying for like a year at this point that Lori's losing touch with reality, that she's threatened to kill him, that she's talking all weird stuff about the 144,000 and being a god. And so his sons are already like, okay, we know something's been going on with Lori and our dad. They are not in the best place. They're immediately going to be suspicious. And she doesn't need people calling the Chandler Police Department and being like,

this is suspicious. Even though the Chandler Police Department should have seen the plethora of things that made it suspicious. They shouldn't have needed a call from Charles' sons. But that's what she's trying to do. She's trying to like buy herself time, basically. No, I agree. Agree with everything you said. It's terrible. All right. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Hey, are you looking for a true crime podcast to binge? Check out True Crime Obsessed, where we recap the true crime documentaries everyone's talking about. We've been one of the top true crime podcasts for almost nine years. And we have over 400 episodes for you to check out right now. We cover the cases everyone is talking about, and we also highlight the cases that have been underreported, overlooked, or forgotten. With

over 30,000 five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts, if you've never checked out True Crime Obsessed, now's the time to give us a try. Find True Crime Obsessed wherever you get your podcasts. So Charles Avalo's death was initially ruled a self-defense killing by the police. But years later, in September of 2021, when authorities were going back over every death connected to Chad and Lori, they looked at the autopsy that the ME and Chandler did when Charles died. This wasn't like he was exhumed when it looked suspicious and then they did an autopsy. This was the original autopsy performed. And it showed that Charles had been shot twice.

I believe once in the chest and once in the stomach. When he was shot in the chest, his heart was damaged. When he was shot in the stomach. His lung was damaged. The ME had also found multiple bruises to the right side of Charles's chest, as well as abrasions to his left arm, right hand, and knees. And Alex had told the police that he'd shot Charles twice while Charles was still standing. But according to Detective Nathan Duncan, there were two.45 caliber shells and a bullet lying on the ground next to Charles's left shoulder. And based on the entry and exit wounds, it appeared that the second shot had been fired while Charles was laying on the ground. They knew all of this when they did the autopsy.

They still said it was a self-defense killing. Additionally, when the police arrived at the house on the day of Charles's shooting, they couldn't find his phone anywhere because Lori had not only taken Charles's rental car that day when she left the house, but she took his cell phone with her when she left. And she would later turn it over to the Chandler Police Department, but not right away. Not right away at all. After Alex shot and killed Charles on July 12th, Chad Daybell tried to be, you know, a helpful boyfriend. And he called the Valley of the Sun Mortuary, where Charles's body was, and he asked for prices for cremation, inquiring how much it would cost to send Charles's remains to his family in Louisiana. On July 13th, Chad and Lori exchanged multiple loving messages. Chad said, quote, I need so badly to just gently kiss you for hours. It would

likely lead to other activities, end quote. Lori responded, quote, likely or luckily, end quote. And Chad responded, quote, it would likely lead to nakedness, end quote. That same day, Chad texted Lori his romance novel, remember, the one he called the James and Alina story? And he said, quote, I love you so much. You are my greatest desire and my best friend. Now on with the story. End quote. What a lame dude. Chad and Lori chat back and forth about how they are astral projecting and portaling to each other. They're joining each other in bed.

They're joining each other in the shower. Chad was like, thanks for taking a shower with me this morning. And this is apparently when Chad also began to start telling people that he was having visions and feelings that his own spouse, Tammy Daybell, was not going to be alive much longer. Convenient. Yeah. And on July 13th, Chad messaged Lori about, you know, basically his life, what he had going on. And he was like, oh, my kids are graduating from BYU on the 23rd of July. And it's going to be like crazy. And there's going to be like crazy and there's going to be like extended family in town and Chad said quote I feel like she will be gone by then but I will still have the hoopla to deal with because a lot of family is coming and will stay for July 24th

end quote. During this time Lori also figured out that she'd been removed from her husband's life insurance policy and she texted Chad Daybell on July 18th saying, quote, I just got the letter from the insurance company saying that I am not the beneficiary. It's a spear through my heart. Who do you think he changed it to? Brandon or probably Kay? He left nothing for JJ, end quote. It's audacity, man. The audacity of this woman. So Chad responded to Lori saying, quote, it will be interesting if it got changed after he had two bullets in his chest, end quote. So basically they're saying like, well, was Charles the one who changed it or did somebody else change it after he died?

Just to like get at you, you know, because they hate you. It's not that you killed him or anything or had something to do with it that they would hate you. It's just they hate you and they want to like hold things back from you. And Lori would later text Chad, quote, so I talked to the insurance company. He changed it in March. So it was probably Ned before we got rid of him. Remember, they called Charles Ned sometimes as a code name. They can't tell me who, of course, but it's done. I'll still get 4K a month in Social Security office

until a month after Charles's death. But she knew how much she was going to get from his Social Security or at least how much JJ was going to get from his Social Security because a month prior to his death, she'd gone online and she'd entered Charles's information into this free benefits analysis kind of calculator. And so that's how she knew preemptively how much she was going to get, which obviously shows premeditation, which I don't even think we need to show at this point, but there it is. Yeah. No such thing as a motive there or

anything. Yeah. Sometimes I feel like it can't be true what you're saying. I know it is, but I just don't understand it. I just don't understand it. And I never claimed to be the best detective in the world, but I don't know how these investigators and even more so the prosecutors who look at this case after the fact when law enforcement gets done putting it all together, how do they come to a conclusion that this killing was on the up and up?

I don't know. I don't get it. You mean Charles's? Charles's killing. Yeah. Like, how do they look at this? And they look at the whole report and say. Maybe you should call up Chandler PD and be like, from one like cop to another, what the hell's wrong with you people?

You know, it wouldn't do much because I tell you, I have this happen when I was doing breaking homicide. You have certain cops. It's not like we're all like best friends. We're not all best. There's definitely cases there's a case that you and i will definitely cover at some point out of ohio where i basically had a cop indirectly tell me to go fuck myself and i told him to go fuck himself too before we hung up with each other because we were going to go there to film it but

it's like an obvious situation where they ruled it a suicide. It absolutely was not a suicide. And I was getting the blow. In your opinion, allegedly. Yeah, my opinion, allegedly. I mean, other than the fact that the mother of the suspect called and said, my son just shot his wife. But then by the time cops got there, it was that she shot herself. But anyways, I digress.

It's a different case, different day. And that's on recording too, by the way. But again, never mind so I was getting blowback from all these guys at the agency and Essentially I got aggravated because i'm like I i'm gonna come there regardless and i'm gonna and I said it in a nice way I'm, like you guys gonna look like idiots He didn't like that. So Yeah, it happened. Well my point being

If I called them it would just be it wouldn't if these guys think that they're in the right or the person who probably did this case may not even be there anymore. But I'm sure it was a lot of people that made this decision. There was a lot of people involved in the bucket. I'm not trying to put the blame, but the buck stops with with not only the police department. They may have like certain recommendations. Yeah. But the D.A. is also a big proponent in this where, and in fairness to them, they're going off the police report that they weren't there. So that could hinder their ability.

But you also have the autopsy and stuff. Yeah. So I read like, because I'm curious, why? How did this happen? You know, I'm always curious. Like there has to be something I'm missing. And a lot of people said who are from the area they were like mormons like run this shit and so you have a lot of like mormons on the on the force and you have a lot of people on the force that are very sympathetic to like the lds church and so so

that may be like some contributory i'm proud of you you got your conspiracy in there proud of you girl fighting that's not my conspiracy people are it way. It's people who are from that area, man. I was waiting for it. You don't know what you're talking about. You're not from that area. You don't know what these people have to deal with. Play with your hair. You're nervous.

You guys can't see her, but she totally started going with the hair. She starts spinning it around like it's a bowl of spaghetti or something in her hand. Immediately got self-conscious. Anyways. You don't know what you're talking about though that could be right it could be could you give me another plausible explanation incompetence these cops are on the take the take or something or like yeah i mean incompetence or the lack of always your go-to it's so easy i mean some people i i

have no problem telling you that there are cops that should not be cops and And that just because they're detectives doesn't mean they're qualified. It just means that they're the next in line. It could be through attrition. It could be through a lot of reasons. There are individuals who are in charge of positions that should not be. And I am. They'll say they suck. There's people who suck at their job.

They're not good. Just like in any profession. But these jobs, they make a real, they can impact people's lives and it's all i'm saying is just don't try not to get shot in chandler arizona all right try to avoid police department is i feel like it would be i don't i don't know man but does it matter i just i i would love to know because i'm sure in hindsight this had to come out why the decision was made by the DA's office not to pursue charges against Alex. I looked for it. I can't find anything. I think that they're just like, we're not talking about this, you know. So you might notice a little bit of a cut or a pause if you're listening on audio video, because I wanted to look up.

We keep talking about how this case got to where it was. And so I wanted to look up Arizona to see if they were a stand your ground state. And they are. So first off, Arizona, I'm reading this right from here, probably up on the screen. Arizona has a stand your ground law, which removes the duty to retreat in any place where a person, quote, may legally be and is not engaged in an unlawful act. Arizona's law also authorizes the use of deadly force to prevent burglary of unoccupied residential structures, end quote. So here's the thing. If you're engaged in a situation and you already are in possession of a firearm, kind of like I was explaining earlier in

the example where you're engaged in an altercation, you have a firearm in your possession, you do not have to retreat. You can use that firearm to defend yourself. That is not what happened here. First off, right? He retreated even though he didn't have to, to go get the gun and then re-engage. And the reason I bring that up is because I then went and looked up the 13-404 self-defense statute for Arizona. And this is what we have it right here on azleg.gov. And so there's a couple of things, justification for self-defense. And there's subsections to this, but in subsection A, except as provided in subsection B of this section, a person is justified in threatening or using physical force against another when and to the extent of a reasonable person would believe that physical force is immediately necessary to protect

himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force. Now, in subsection B, right, because this is where it says, except as provided in subsection B, the threat of use or physical force against another is not justified, one, in response to a verbal provocation alone, or two, to resist an arrest. I'm not going to get into that one because that doesn't apply here. Number three is what's important. If the person provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force. So that's why this is important here. If the person, the quote unquote victim, provoked the other's use or attempted use of unlawful physical force, and then it goes on, unless, this is another a under subsection three, the person withdraws from the encounter or clearly communicates to the other, his intent to do so

reasonably believing he cannot safely withdraw from the encounter, right? That is not the situation here under subsection three. You have a situation where this is where I think it would not be justified under their own statute, where Alex was in an altercation. There was physical, unlawful physical force used. If you're to believe everything he said, where he was quote unquote struck with a baseball bat, right? Okay. That's unlawful physical force. I get it. Alex removes himself from that situation, goes and grabs his firearm, okay? This is according to him, not my words. He then re-engages with Charles Vallow, which results in him shooting him twice. So right here, subsection three, if the person provoked the other's use of attempted use of

unlawful physical force. So in my opinion, Alex provoked Charles Vallow to strike him again with the bat if we are to believe every single word that Alex said, which according to their own law, would make it an unjustified defense of self-defense. That's my interpretation of, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just reading it like a reasonable person. I don't know why he wouldn't have been excluded from the self-defense if subsection three was in effect when this took place, which I'm assuming it was. Did you find out why the Chandler Police Department sucked so bad? I thought you were looking that up.

Oh, no, I didn't go into all that. I mean, the law is the law. And I think it's bigger than just Chandler. I think it's obviously them. But also, like I said, the DA's office. I would love to find out more about that. Maybe someone who's researched this case will be in the comments section. But we have a lot to cover. And I mean, the DA's office. I would love to find out more about that. Maybe someone who's researched this case will be in the comment section,

but we have a lot to cover. And I mean, this is one- Someone who researched this case is standing right in front of you. I got you, girl. Yeah, I mean, listen, but somebody may have a, I mean, damn. Oh my God.

It's like one o'clock in the morning. I get sensitive. But I mean, this is one piece of the puzzle. You know, there's a lot more to cover, but I understand why we're covering it so much at length because if in this case, Alex is arrested and, you know, maybe we're not- Like a million things could have been different.

A million things could have been different and all of this would have been avoided. Yeah, but going off of this, and then I'll leave it alone and let us get through this section. To me, it sounds like easily, at minimum, there should have been at least a manslaughter charge something like that i don't you know something something

where his actions resulted in the death of another i don't even know how it would be manslaughter because he intentionally shot him so yeah twice maybe and then you got the you've got like the trajectory of the bullets not adding up to what he said. Right. Yeah, a lot of stuff here not making sense. And if he had said. Or he's throwing a damn pool party. Let me throw just one more curveball. If he had told the police officer, I had the gun on me while we're engaging in a fight. He strikes me with the bat.

He was about to strike me again. I pulled the gun out and shot him. Honestly, if you can only go off his word. A little bit more. A little bit more. That's self-defense. But the fact that we just heard the police officer say to his colleague, he went back to his room, grabbed the gun, and then re-engaged.

There you go. He doesn't have to retreat based on being a stand your ground law state, but he did retreat. He could have stayed in his room or left the property. He chose not to. He went and provoked Charles Vallow to re-engage in the fight, therefore leading to the death of Charles Vallow. I don't think that would qualify under the self-defense law. I agree with you. Okay. If only you'd been on the Chandler, Arizona police

force, maybe all these lives would have been saved. On July 18th, Chad texted Lori, telling her that he had been instructed to focus his efforts on Hillary. This was the name that Lori and Chad had given the demon that they believed had been inhabiting the body of 16-year-old Tylee. Lori responded and asked Chad if he could find out the percentages for Tylee and JJ. These are the death percentages, remember? And Chad responded, quote, she is at a 0.13. I turned up the pain to a 10 and placed a spiritual virus in her. He is at a 99.99.

Raphael visited him and told him to follow Amy into the light. I also assured him that James would love and take care of his mommy, which he will with all of his heart and soul, end quote. So Chad's talking about Tylee and JJ. And remember, the closer you are to zero or 100, the closer you are to death. JJ is very close. JJ and Tylee are both very close. Right. Right. Well, she was at a 0.13, I thought you said. 0.13. 0.13. He's at a 99.99. So she's at- It doesn't make no sense, but-

Well, she wouldn't be close. He would be. No, she's close to zero. Zero means that you're close to- Zero being you're not close- Zero or 100. The closer you are to zero and the closer you are to 100. You want to be in 50% to not be close to death.

I guess you want to be in the middle. Okay. All right. Now I follow you. Got it. And I love this. I told him James would love and take care of his mommy, which he will with all of his heart and soul. Lori replied, quote, that's sweet. I miss you desperately, end quote. Overall, from what the FBI would find on Chad and Lori's electronic devices, there would be three total conversations about the death percentages for JJ, Tylee, and Tammy Daybell. Another conversation happened on July 30th and another on August 10th. Once again, according to Chad's death percentage scale, the closer a person is to zero or to 100,

the closer they were to death. This puts both of these children very close to death in Chad's brain. In these text messages, you can see progressively, especially after Charles died, it like upped the ante. Lori and Chad are both becoming very frustrated with the people in their lives that are keeping them apart, people that they refer to as obstacles. On July 18th, Chad texted Lori saying, quote, you are so adorable, beautiful, wonderful, heavenly, luscious, and angelic. So many divine attributes rolled into one dynamic, desirable package. I want you even more desperately than you want me. Just grab me by the storm and I will follow you to the ends of the universe. End quote.

I'm not giving this any life. Continue. Lori asked Chad when she would be able to grab him by the storm. And he responded, quote, Wednesday evening and then repeatedly and gloriously until Friday. End quote. Lori asked, and then what? Like, what next? And Chad said, quote, back to crying and saying goodbye.

Back to the box. End quote. Text messages from the following day show that Lori and Chad were not just focused on the dark and light natures of Lori's children, but also Melanie's children. And remember, this is Lori's niece, Melanie. Not Melanie Gibb, but Lori's niece, Melanie, who's married to Brandon Boudreaux. Lori texted Chad asking what Blake's percentage was. Blake is Melanie's son. Lori said to Chad, quote, he drew three crosses on the wall in his bedroom. We just finished painting over them like he was marking it for

the dark side to find him, end quote. Chad told Lori that Blake was at a seven. And then Chad said, quote, I took my sword of life and sliced his aura vertically in several places. You should be able to now rip and burn it. I also decreased his pain tolerance to 1% and greatly increased his pain. His desire to depart is at 80%. End quote. These are children that they're talking about. Not Lori's children, Melanie's children. On July 23rd, Lori texted Chad and said, quote, good morning. Missing you so much. Need you to check JJ. Weird stuff happening in the middle of the night. It's like they distracted us with Blake. When you get home, check Ty Lee. She's being super sweet and she cleaned her room. See if she got switched. Totally not her. End

quote. Chad responded back to Lori, quote, yes, she was switched. Please let me know when you can talk and I will explain it, end quote. On July 26th, Lori asked Chad to check JJ again. I believe that at this point, JJ was with Melanie, Lori's niece, and Lori said that Melanie told her that JJ was calm and watching movies all day. And Lori was like, Melanie noticed. And she said, quote, Mel knew. She called me. She felt the real Brighton last night and knew she was different. She was told, I didn't want to tell her. She's taking it well and knows it's a part of a big plan, end quote. So Brighton is Melanie's daughter and Blake is Melanie's son. That night, Chad texted Lori saying, quote, tonight I figured out who I feel like. I'm a grown-up version of Harry Potter who has to live

with the Dudleys in his little space under the stairs. Every few weeks, I get to escape and have amazing adventures with my goddess lover, but then I have to return to my place under the stairs feeling trapped, but I sense permanent freedom is coming, End quote. What a dumbass. First of all, it's the Dursleys, not the Dudleys. Second of all, you are not the grown-up version of Harry Potter. How dare you? You're not a grown-up version of anything. What a loser. It's so funny because I said Harry Potter syndrome. That's exactly what it reminded me of. And I didn't even know he said that because this didn't come out to the trial. And I've been saying that for years, that people like this have Harry Potter syndrome, where they literally just feel like they're like unseen and their potential's untapped and they're meant for greater things,

but nobody appreciates or respects them. But one day they will. This is exactly what I'm talking about. On July 29th, Lori and her niece, Melanie, were in the car with Melanie's children. They were going on a trip. And Chad texted Lori referring to Melanie's kids, Blake and Brighton saying, quote, one question, do you want me to cause pain to those two threes you're riding with? End quote. He's talking about their dark spirits. He thought Blake and Brighton, these children were level three dark spirits. And Lori responded back, quote, probably hold off till we arrive. This will be miserable to deal with, but I'll text you if they start acting up and we can zap them, end quote. Chad responded, quote, yes, if they are going to act up, we'll at least give them

a reason to scream, end quote. The last time that Lori Vallow spoke to Charles's sister, Kay Woodcock, was when Kay messaged her at the end of this month, begging Lori to allow JJ to attend the memorial service that they'd set up for Charles. Lori told Kay that they were all jerks and she wouldn't be talking to them or responding to them ever again. And as far as we know, she never did. On July 30th, Chad sent Lori messages about death percentages again, saying, quote, I got the inspiration to go back to my original death percentages that helped us track Charles, Ned, etc. Tammy is very close. Her percentage has fallen steadily since Hiplos left. It is encouraging, end quote. Chad said that Tammy was at a three and JJ was at a two. And he said they were both being heavily shielded to stop intruders. And this confused Lori, right? Because we know that like

the closer you are to zero or 100, the closer you are to death. And so she's like, what the hell do you mean? Two and 3%, not zero? You know, she's like, what's happening? And then Chad replied that he would explain when they spoke saying, quote, this is the chart that checks what percentage mortals are still in their body. It worked for my friend's wife who died, my neighbor, George Bush, Stan Lee, etc. I kind of forgot about it because we've been dealing with zombies and demonic entities, but this afternoon, Tammy said she felt lightheaded, as if her body and spirit weren't connected, end quote. On August 7th, Lori texted Chad that she was with Melanie's kids again, and Melanie's daughter had put a bunch of holes in the wall and Lori said she must have demons helping her because she punched at least 1,000 holes in the

wall. And then Lori texted, quote, we are both so tired of taking care of demons. We are weary. Please ask the Lord to take them, end quote. So a few episodes ago, I had talked about the idea, we're talking about blame, right? And as far as like, who's steering the ship here? And I know I'm never going to move you off the idea that Lori was the master manipulator, all these things. And before you even debate me on it, I'll say that Chad's readings, air quotes here, on these individuals could have been influenced by what he felt like Lori wanted

him to say. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm with you there. And she keeps asking him. She keeps saying, what are their percentages now? What are their percentages now? What are their percentages now? Right. So there could be some of that where he's reading between the lines and understanding that she wants him to give him a certain reading. But I will say this. I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that these two genuinely believe in this, what they're saying. I don't think they're just making this up. I don't think he does. I think he does. I don't think he does. We know initially she was involved in the religion and she was attracted to Chad and wanted to get closer to him. I think by her being closer to him, she became even more ingrained in the religion, which was something that Charles had said to law enforcement that she had taken her belief in this religion and went full in on it to the point where it was unhealthy. And like I said, her husband said that to police, that she was completely just ingrained by it. And I feel like her relationship definitely

contributed to her devotion to this religion and the belief in what it meant and how she lived her life by it. And I absolutely believe that she felt like Chad was this higher authority within this religion and could read these things. I genuinely believe when she asked him for the gauge, the readings on these individuals as far as where they were, she believed in what he was telling her. And I do think that this was a contributing factor, if not the main factor to why JJ and Tylee were killed, which is something that I had speculated on episode one could have been a factor in this where why would they do this? It was because of what they believed those two children represented. And so I almost feel like she's playing the long game and she's like so obviously texting him about this stuff to make it look like he's like

guiding the ship, you know, like, oh, what are their death percent? And then later she can just be like, well, he's the one who oh what are their death percent and then later she can just be like well he's the one who kept telling me their death percentages and he kept doing this and he kept doing that but like she keeps asking i think i mean i don't say this lightly i think they there's a mental illness there for both of them i think there's some major issues and i i truly believe she actually believes in what she's saying here this it can be the case i don't think she's disguising the fact that she wants to kill her kids underneath this religion where she doesn't believe in it. I think she wholeheartedly believes in everything that comes with it and how you can have multiple

spirits in your body and how those spirits could end up hurting her. And I believe that her belief in the religion was even more important to her than her love for her children, because in her eyes, she wasn't seeing them as her children anymore. She was seeing them as vessels for these spirits. So she was just acting on whatever the read was from Chad. So that's where I'm at right now. That could change. But I do think that Chad had a major influence over her, specifically when it came to the religion itself. I don't think he had a major influence over her specifically when it came to the religion itself. I don't think he was a prominent person, a guy who exemplified confidence and was someone who you were gravitated toward naturally. I think Lori was the more charismatic

person, but I think it came into the interpretation of the religion itself. Lori definitely looked to Chad for guidance in that aspect. On the same day, August 7th, it appears that Lori and Chad got into their first fight. And although we're unsure about what the fight was about, we know that it happened because Lori texted her niece, Melanie, and they were like, we had a big fight. And Chad was just texting Lori all day long, letting her know that he still loved her and he'll always love her and he's going to respect her desire to not speak to him. But it was, quote, absolutely excruciating to be cut off from her. And then Chad starts to get manipulative when Lori completely

ignored his texts. And this is why I think he doesn't actually believe in the ship. So he said, quote, Grandpa Keith is here. That's his grandfather, remember? His spirit guide. I am supposed to warn you that you are unprotected. The angels are angry that you are ignoring me, but he says he isn't allowed to. I'm honestly not trying to manipulate you to respond. Yeah, you are. I understand that you need your space, but they say you have cut me off and the protection I built around your house is gone. I love you and I don't want you getting attacked. They said that if you at least give me a thumbs up, it will restore our protections. End quote. Laurie responded with, I love you. And Chad was like, all right, I'll work on getting your protections restored. Yeah, I don't disagree with you. And this goes back to,

again, his initial interaction with Laurie, using the religion to hide something, his true intentions, which was to sleep with her, to be with her. He did it with other women. I think there are moments where he goes in and out of what he truly believes and uses his position within the organization, the following that he has to influence people to do what he wants. So they can't tell when he's doing it because of the religion and when he's doing it for his own personal gain. He's always doing it for his own personal gain, in my opinion. Okay.

So you don't think that even when he's talking about the children, there's any truth to that? You don't think he, you think this is a complete farce? He doesn't believe in any of this? I think he's full of shit. He doesn't believe in this at all. Okay. That's interesting. I disagree.

We'll leave it at that. Way down below right now. Stop the video right here. The angels are angry because you're ignoring me? No, no, no, no. See, I think that is definitely manipulation and he doesn't, but there's no, the spirits are not coming to him for that. But I definitely think he goes in and out of character depending on what he's trying

to accomplish. So instead of us debating it for 20 minutes, you guys weigh down below right now. Is Chad someone who went in and out of character depending on if he wanted to use the religion for something, for personal gain where, yeah, most of the time he believed in what he was saying, but if there was an opportunity to use it to influence someone into doing something he wanted them to do for him or someone else. He would use his position of authority to do so. Or, like Stephanie's suggesting, is this a guy who, from the beginning, never bought into any of this

and was just a con artist from day one and was painting a picture that he felt would get him more followers, more clout, more recognition. Get laid. Get laid. Get him laid the whole nine yards. Okay, that's what this is about he's a pathetic potato of a man who was potato oatmeal what other what are the food group you putting him in whatever pasty ass lumpy food you can think of okay a potato of a man that literally got sprung for lori That's offensive to potatoes.

He got honey potted. And then he was like, that's all he could think of. He just wanted her so badly. It didn't matter. And he was like, oh my God, I can't believe this woman is like into me. Like I need to do anything I can to keep her. And he just, he went like ham with this stuff, honestly. So let's keep going. On August 10th, Lori texted Chad again, asking him to check

JJ's percentages, quote, please check JJ. He just woke up saying crazy stuff and won't go back to sleep. He is talking to Blake. It's weird, end quote. Chad wrote back, quote, JJ is still JJ. I am told his spirit recognizes Blake is evil and is unsettled by him, end quote. Later, Chad texted again, asking how JJ was, and Lori responded, quote, he's quote. Later, Chad texted again asking how JJ was and Lori responded, quote, he's better. He was just up talking nonsense for like two hours last night. I'm sure they were bugging him.

Is he at zero yet? I miss you, end quote. And Chad responded saying, yes, JJ was at zero. And then Chad said, quote, cheek to cheek, loin to loin. It isn't very far away, my love. I seriously cannot stop crying. I was allowed to feel my own emotions I will experience as you sing to them and the love, admiration and reverence I have for you are indescribable, end quote. Lori wrote back,

quote, I can't wait. Literally can't wait. I have zero patience. I want you now, end quote. So the next text exchange between Lori and Chad began with Lori asking, quote, Do you think there is a perfectly orchestrated plan to take the children and we just have to wait for it to be carried out? What should I be doing? End quote. Chad wrote back, quote, You are doing everything right, my love. The Lord told me she is on the right track. He said to just keep resolving the telestial issue so you are unencumbered and truly free, end quote. And then Lori responded

to Chad and said, quote, that actually feels good that JJ was talking to the real Blake, getting close. When I was sitting across from him eating bacon, I sensed he was barely attached to his body, end quote. The heat was turned up as Chad and Lori were forced to spend time with their respective families when all they wanted to do was be together and have all of these obstacles gone. Chad texted Lori on August 11th that he was with his family in Boise and he was, quote, not happy about it. He said, quote, they want to go to Craters of the Moon National Park. I can't take much more. So trapped, end quote. Lori asked Chad if they were supposed to wait forever and Chad responded, quote, no, but the next two days will be torture, end quote. And Lori asked, quote, is that what he wants? For me to sit around waiting for you endlessly and miserably

wasting time? It just doesn't feel right, end quote. Chad apologized to Lori and she said, quote, you can't just keep tearing my heart out. I really can't take it anymore. I'm sorry, end quote. So I think that this is what Chad and Lori were fighting about when she started ignoring him, because what I'm hearing from this exchange is, I had my husband killed. So why is your wife still alive? Right? Why is Tammy still walking around? I took care of Charles.

You were supposed to take care of Tammy. You're supposed to be taking out your obstacles. I'm working on getting my obstacles out of the way. What the hell are you doing? Why are we not together yet? Why am I sitting around waiting for you? You're breaking my heart. And I think that's what they probably thought about just a couple of days previous. She's like, when's Tammy going to be done? And he's like, soon, my love, soon. And she's like, I'm getting sick of waiting. Right. She's pushing him. She did her part. Why isn't he doing his?

I don't necessarily disagree. I can see that. Your interpretation is fair. I definitely still think there's some truth to them believing that the religion is dictating their actions, but I can't dispute what you're saying either. I think if we were inside Lori's head and could see what she actually thought, if that were what it was, I wouldn't be shocked. Because she's saying to him, why do you keep, I can't keep letting you tear my heart out. Not like this is God's plan. He's waiting to take Tammy. I can't let you keep tearing my heart out. I got rid of my husband. Why is your wife still walking around? So then, and you can see the same energy throughout her following text. Lori tells Chad, you know, she's crushed. She can't talk to him on his birthday. And he tries to comfort her

and he's like, I'm sorry. I know it's not going to be like this forever. And Lori says to him, go spend time with your wife and kids. You know, that kind of like passive aggressive, like I'm no one to you. Like, just go, go. And Chad bent over backwards, reassuring her that their time was coming. It wouldn't be long now. It was during the month of August when Lori began making moves to prepare for a world that would not include JJ or Tylee. Three weeks after Charles had been shot and killed, Lori tried to sell JJ's therapy dog, a Labradoodle named Bailey. The seven-year-old JJ, who'd been diagnosed with autism, was very close to this dog, who'd been trained to calm him down. Lori initially tried to sell Bailey, listing her online for $2,500, but fortunately, Bailey's trainer, Neil Mestis, saw the listing

and told Lori, like, no, that's not how it works. That dog's not yours. You know, Bailey's trainer, Neil Mestis, saw the listing and told Lori, like, no, that's not how it works. That dog's not yours. You know, as part of a program, Bailey needs to be rehomed and placed with another child who has special needs. You can't just sell the dog. So then the trainer went to Lori's house to pick Bailey up. And he said he saw JJ sitting quietly in Lori's car, probably devastated. And at this point, Lori already knew that she wasn't going to be getting money from Charles' life insurance, but she was collecting the Social Security benefits that were intended for JJ, and she was collecting Social Security from Joe Ryan that was intended for Tylee, a total of $1,859 a month from Tylee, which was being deposited

into a JPMorgan Chase account with only Tylee's name on it. On August 12th, Lori made her oldest son, Colby Ryan, the sole beneficiary of her $2 million life insurance policy. Two days later, Lori submitted a rental application for a townhouse in Rexburg, Idaho, nine minutes away from where Chad Daybell lived with his still-alive wife, Tammy. On the application, Lori listed her income as $5,000 a month, which would have been the combined social security benefits that she was getting from herself, from Tylee, and from JJ. Lori wrote on the application that they were moving to Rexburg

so that her teenage daughter, Tylee, could attend BYU, although Tylee would never actually be enrolled at that college or any other. I think it's also funny that these people are so obsessed with life insurance, even though they think the world's going to end. You know, like, what is your life insurance policy going to do when the apocalypse comes? That's actually a very good point. Right? Is the insurance company still going to be operating and like paying out? What are you doing here? That's a good one. I didn't think about that. On August 19th, Lori opened a brand new joint bank account under her name and Tylee's name. And then the next day, she had Tylee's Social Security payments diverted to this new account.

Using her JPMorgan Chase account, Tylee had been making the monthly payments on her Jeep. But in September, that payment was returned, citing insufficient funds. It was the only time that ever happened. And as we know now, by September, Tylee is gone. Not only did Lori have Tylee's Social Security benefits moved out of her account, but she also drained Tylee's bank account. On September 10th and 16th, Lori deposited money into Tylee's bank account, but each time that money was then immediately moved out and Venmoed to her oldest son, Colby Ryan. And according to the FBI, there were 29 total deposits from Lori's bank account into Tylee's bank account. But then each time that money was immediately always sent to Colby.

On September 20th, the last $10 was moved from Tylee's account into the joint bank account that both Lori and Tylee's name were on. At the end of August, Lori packed everything up and moved to Rexburg, Idaho, bringing along Tylee and JJ, as well as Lori's brother Alex and her niece Melanie. They all moved to Rexburg. This move was the beginning of the end for JJ and Tylee. Lori would enroll JJ into school at Kennedy Elementary in Rexburg, but she pulled him out of school three weeks later,

claiming that he was with his grandparents and then claiming that she was going to homeschool him. Tylee, like I said, never enrolled at classes at BYU or any other classes at any other college. And the last known sighting of Tylee alive was on September 8th, 2019. On this day, Tylee was with her mother, Lori, her little brother, JJ, and her uncle, Alex Cox, at Yellowstone National Park. And there's a picture of Tylee holding JJ closely with Alex smiling in the background. This picture was found on Lori's iCloud account. We have no idea what happened to Tylee that day. We just know that no one ever saw her or talked to her after September 8th.

And she stopped talking to her friends. She stopped answering texts from her friends, from her brother. And she stopped and she stopped talking to her friends. She stopped answering texts from her friends, from her brother, and she stopped using her debit card to make purchases. We know that Lori, Alex, JJ, and Tylee drove to Yellowstone in Alex's Ford F-150 truck. We know that Alex's phone exited the park at the west entrance around 6.40 p.m. From there, he traveled to Buckaroo's Barbecue and Grill in West Yellowstone, where his phone remained from 6.45 p.m. to 7.02 p.m. Alex's phone was back in Rexburg and at Lori's townhouse until 9.35 p.m., at which point he then went to Maverick on Main Street in Rexburg for

just 10 minutes. Then he was back at Lori's townhouse, and by 11.44 p.m., Alex was back in his own Rexburg apartment. The next day, early, early in the morning, Alex's cell phone traveled to Lori's townhouse at a very odd hour, 2.42 in the morning. And he stayed there until 3.37 a.m. I believe that this is probably when Ty Lee was murdered by Alex. This is the only time during the month of September that Alex was at Lori's in the middle of the night. He was back at his apartment by 4.30 a.m. and when he left his apartment again, it was 9.21 a.m. when his cell phone pinged at the property of Chad and Tammy Daybell. Alex's specific GPS data point placed him behind the home near the east end of the Daybell barn. It appears that Alex left Chad's

house around 11.39 a.m. and then he went to Del Taco. And from there, he spent the rest of the day at his apartment. Now, we know that Chad Daybell was home when Alex was there getting rid of Tylee's remains because Chad was texting his wife, Tammy. At 11.53 a.m., Chad sent Tammy a text message saying, quote, Well, I've had an interesting morning. I felt I should burn all the limb debris by the fire pit before it got too soaked by the coming storms. End quote. The Daybell Pet Cemetery was located east of the barn, near the fire pit, the exact location that Alex's phone pinged on the morning of September 9th, the day after Tylee Ryan, whose body had been dismembered and set on fire to the point that police were not even sure they'd found a body until a skull was located under a melted plastic bucket. A detective testified about this moment saying, quote, the best I can describe was just blobs of flesh that

were falling apart. Once we removed some of that under them, there was other round blobs. I'm sorry, it's the best I can describe it, just burnt flesh in what appeared to be a green bucket, end quote. Forensic pathologist Dr. Garth Warren would later testify that Tylee's death was ruled a homicide, but they were unable to determine her manner of death because of the condition of her remains, which, I mean, wouldn't even be considered to be remains at this point. She was just completely burnt and melted. Warren also told a jury that amongst the debris of the dismembered body, he found a charred heart. Tylee's remains were x-rayed to uncover any possible projectiles, like knives, bullets, things like that, but there were none. Angie Christensen,

a forensic anthropologist with the FBI, told the jury that she had received bone fragments from Tylee's remains, and she'd identified sharp trauma on some of these fragments, which indicated that some type of tool had been used on Tylee's body. Christensen also said that sharp trauma in dismemberment cases usually occurs around the joints, but Tylee's injuries were not typical of dismemberment. The marks didn't appear near the joints on Tylee's bone, but rather sharp trauma was observed only in the pelvic region below her belly button. Just before Tylee's disappearance, Lori texted her brother Alex,

telling him that he needed more practice on the shooting range. She also told him that she had been working on some Zs or zombies, saying, quote, we are trying to get to the bottom of what we need to do to eliminate them completely. I am sure you will be told also, end quote. And Alex responded back to Lori with one word, excellent.

On September 8th, the last day Tylee was seen alive, Chad Daybell increased his wife Tammy's life insurance to the max allowed on her policy. So obviously terrible situation. And to me, you can see some things in these texts, these subliminal texts. Obviously, they're knowing they're trying to be cryptic in what they're saying. But it sounds like even though they didn't find a projectile, it's possible that Tylee was shot by Alex. We're speculating here. But just based on that cryptic text message, the fact that they were together the day before,

I don't know if they would have shot her out at the park, where it would be more something that wouldn't maybe be heard. And maybe at that point- Well, maybe that's why Chad said he shot a raccoon, right? Yeah. But was Chad at the park with them as well? He wasn't at, as far as we know, not at Yellowstone National Park. I don't think that Tylee was killed at the park.

I think she was killed probably later in the morning at Lori's house when Alex was there randomly. But you would think how close, and the reason I was staying away from that is how close were houses to that area where if he had, if there was a gunshot that the neighbors would have heard it. We don't really know if she was shot, but why would Lori tell him to get some target practice in? Like, well, I know why Lori would tell him to get target practice in because bring his gun. Well, he's also going to try to shoot Tammy in her driveway and he's going to try to shoot Brandon Boudoir and when he's driving. So maybe that's what they were referring to. Right. We don't know how she could have been. Alex could have came over that night in the middle of the night. Tylee could have been

sleeping. Yeah. And yeah, we won't even go into the details there. But I don't know. Or maybe stabbed her in the stomach. And that's why there's this sharp trauma seen on her pelvic. Ah, interesting. See, I was going to go with that's where she was cut. That's where she was cut in half with a saw or whatever they used. She said the forensic pathologist from the FBI said it's not consistent with dismemberment. It's just random. Well, that's the thing, right?

So usually you'll have individuals dismembered at the joints because it's easier to cut through. So I got what she was saying there. But if you have a novice who's just a moron, they may watch a movie of a magician cutting someone in half and think this is how you do it. And they could have went the hard route in dismembering her by cutting her at the waist, trying to cut her in half. But it's something where, yeah, normally, especially when you look at like mob cases, they would always cut in the soft tissue areas because it's going to be easier to cut through. You're not cutting through bone, obviously. So it's easier.

I mean, they hit bone. normally observe in a dismemberment. But I will say that text message from Chad, super incriminating, right? Like he's basically covering his tracks for what is taking place at his property. He thinks he's covering it from his wife, but in reality, what he's doing is putting himself at the scene of the crime. Yeah. Yeah. He's not, he can't use the excuse like, Hey, I was in the house. Alex came by, asked to use my backyard for something, and I didn't know what the hell he was doing back there. He's actually creating an alibi or an excuse to justify the burnt debris, the fact that there may be- The gunshot maybe.

Exactly. So he's putting himself right there with Alex, which is, I'm assuming, very important when we're going to a trial to know that he's describing what's going on in the backyard, specifically the burning, and lying about it, right? Not saying to his wife, I don't know what's going on. Alex is back there burning something. He's acknowledging, hey, I know there's burning going on back there. Tammy don't know Alex.

Right. Or is it somebody in my backyard? Exactly. So just to go back to it i do think that again alex not being the sharpest tool in the shed was was following both laurie and and chad because of their religious backgrounds and him believing that chad was going to guide him in the right direction as far as the the religion was concerned yeah it made him feel like he had a purpose and you know when you give somebody like alex cox made him feel like he had a purpose. And, you know, when you give somebody like Alex Cox,

like somebody who's never had a purpose, somebody who's never felt respected, when you give them a purpose, it's very powerful, very powerful. I'm with you. During the month of September, a few of Lori's cult members were visitors at her home in Rexburg,

where they reported that they did not see Tylee at all, and Lori was seeing some bizarre things. While in Rexburg, Zulema Pastinez asked Lori where Tylee was, and and Lori was seeing some bizarre things. While in Rexburg, Zulema Pastinez asked Lori where Tylee was, and reportedly, Lori told Zulema that Tylee had to be, quote, freed, and then Lori put her hand in front of Zulema's face and said, don't ask. Zulema also claimed that she did see JJ while in Rexburg, and that Lori had hired a nanny to help her with JJ so that she could spend more time with Chad. Additionally, Melanie Gibb, who, by the way, had since divorced her dentist husband and started dating a new man, David Warwick, who also happened to be a new follower of Chad's,

she and David visited and stayed with Lori during the weekend of September 22nd and 23rd. And Melanie claims this was the last time she saw JJ. And while she and David were there, Lori was telling them that JJ had turned into a zombie because he was sitting still and watching TV. Apparently, he was talking about loving Satan and he'd suddenly developed an advanced vocabulary. Melanie also remembered a time when she'd been on the phone with Lori during the spring of 2019 and she'd heard Lori ask Ty Lee to watch JJ. Ty Lee had said she couldn't and then Lori called her daughter zombie, to which Ty Lee responded, not me, mom. Lori had also told Melanie Gibb that Ty Lee had turned into a zombie around the same time she'd become difficult to deal with, around the age of 12 or 13. While in Rexburg with Lori, Melanie found JJ's behavior to be as it normally was.

There was nothing different about him. But the last time she saw him alive was on the evening of September 22nd. Melanie said it was late at night. She, David, and Lori were getting ready to sit down and record a podcast episode, but JJ was acting up. So his uncle Alex took him to his own apartment. He took him to Alex's apartment. And Alex returned with JJ around 1030, and it looked as if the little boy, dressed in red pajamas, was asleep, with his head laid on his uncle's shoulder as Alex carried him up the stairs to tuck him into bed. There was something that Lori kind of suggested, that both Tylee and JJ had been killed at Alex's apartment, and I think that this is probably what happened. I think that JJ was probably not asleep when Melanie saw him. I think JJ was probably gone while Alex was carrying him up to bed. Melanie remembered this as a touching and tender moment.

The last picture of JJ alive was taken on the evening of September 22nd. He was wearing red pajamas and sitting on the couch. That night, Melanie and her boyfriend David slept in Tylee's room. And David woke up around midnight. He was very troubled. He told Melanie he just had the worst nightmare of his life. And so Melanie went to Lori's room to warn her, to tell her about David's like vision, I guess,

but she found the door locked. Chad and Lori were inside of Lori's room and they wouldn't answer the door. And when Melanie tried to rouse them by texting them, Lori and Chad didn't respond. The next day, the next morning when Melanie woke up, JJ wasn't there. When she asked Lori where he was,

Lori told Melanie that JJ had had an episode that morning. Lori said JJ had been climbing up the cabinets and he had been purposely knocking pictures of Jesus down. So David asked Lori, okay, that sounds awful. Can I give JJ a blessing and try to calm him? And Lori said it was too late. Uncle Alex had already taken JJ. Once again, we don't know exactly what happened to JJ, but we do know that on the morning of September 23rd, around 9.55 a.m., Alex Cox was again on the property of Chad Daybell. His phone pinged near the pond at the northern edge of the property. Detective Ray Hermosillo testified about the discovery of JJ's remains many months after this, how the detectives and the police had started digging near a tree by the pond when police were suddenly struck by the smell of human decomposition.

They removed three rocks, two pieces of wood paneling, and some soil before the police came across a black plastic bag, which they made an incision in to find another layer of white plastic underneath that. Inside that second plastic bag, detectives saw what appeared to be a human head covered in light brown hair. Asphyxia was the cause of JJ's death. second plastic bag, detectives saw what appeared to be a human head covered in light brown hair. Asphyxia was the cause of JJ's death. A plastic bag had been wrapped around his head multiple times. The plastic bag had been affixed to him by layers of duct tape all the way down to his neck, and duct tape had also been placed on his face to completely cover his mouth and entire jawline. JJ's forearms, hands, and ankles had also been bound with duct tape,

and there were scratches and abrasions on the left side of his neck, which indicated that he may have been clawing at the bag and the duct tape trying to get it off. Bruising was found on JJ's arms, which had happened before his death, and when JJ was found in that shallow grave, he was still wearing his red pajamas and pull-up nighttime diaper. Terrible. And it may suggest also what happened to Tylee, right? Some form of asphyxiation, and we weren't able to determine that because of the condition of her body. But if you're under the belief, and I am, that Alex killed both of them, he may have used a similar modus operandi to do it, where strangulation, asphyxiation, or even just

tying them up to the point where they couldn't breathe and they naturally expired on their own because they're trapped inside of a bag or just covered, their mouth and nose were covered. Either way, it's just terrible. Another follower of Chad and Lori's that we haven't talked about, her name's Audrey Baratiro. She would later testify that she'd asked Lori about JJ and Tylee the following month in October. Audrey claimed that she asked Lori if there was anything weird going on with the kids because no one had seen them in a while. And at first, Lori said, no, there's not anything weird. Everything's fine.

But as Audrey turned to leave the room, she claimed that Lori burst into laughter. Quote, as soon as I turned to go upstairs, she started laughing. Like if you were laughing at someone, she said, you're so naive and too trusting. You're like a little child. You think the world is all unicorns and rainbows. You go around helping people and serving them. Well, I've got news for you. Not everyone is a good person and not everyone can be so kind. End quote. And then according to Audrey, Lori threatened to kill her. Quote, she said she would cut me up and she wasn't in the mental place to do that, but she would get herself in a place to do it. End quote.

Audrey said that Lori went into great detail, telling her that there would be blood and bleach and garbage bags and that she would bury her somewhere that Audrey would never be found. And this makes me wonder if Lori was more involved with JJ and Tylee's death than we think. Because it's true. There was a finger and palm print from Alex Cox found on plastic bags that were surrounding JJ, but Lori's hair was found stuck in the duct tape that was tightly and unforgivingly wrapped around the seven-year-old boy. I definitely think she was involved. I definitely think this was something almost like an exorcism for another way to describe it, where they were probably collectively doing this.

I'll let you finish because I know we have a little bit more to go and then we can kind of wrap it up. But absolutely, Lori was involved. She wasn't in the other room just letting what happened happen. She was an active participant, in my opinion, allegedly. Look at me using your terms. I mean, you don't have to say allegedly with her. She can just really fuck off. Well, not only that.

What is she going to do? Sue us? Is she going to sue us? She was convicted of it. But yeah, I'm with you. I'd like to see her try. That's my belief. I'm going to do some, you and I can do some casting on her.

She's a dark demon. So technically under their religion, it would be fine to just tie her up in a bag and leave her somewhere. Right? Super dark spirit. Right? What's her death? Zero. What's her percentage at, Derek? her somewhere, right? Super dark. Super dark spirit. Right? She's zero.

What's her percentage at, Derek? Just zero, for sure. Zero or 99.99, whatever you want to go with. Whichever one. She's at zero, though. So, yeah, this is terrible. Freaking terrible to think that he suffered in that way. That is...

So, the month after JJ and Tylee were killed, a series of events once again began that included the attempted murder of Brandon Boudreau, who is Lori's niece, Melanie's husband, ex-husband at that point. They were going through a divorce. Also, the attempted murder of Tammy Daybell. And then finally, the successful murder of Tammy Daybell. Within days of Tammy's death, Chad Daybell had applied for the over $400,000 life insurance to pay out. And as soon as they had the money in hand, Chad and Lori were finally free to be together with all the obstacles gone. Within weeks of Tammy's death, Chad was standing on a beach in Hawaii, promising to love and cherish Lori for the rest of their lives till death do them part. If only. Yeah, if only. Exactly.

We're thinking the same thing. Okay. So I'm assuming we have one more episode with this. We're going to go through the trial. I think maybe like two. Okay. Well, either way, this isn't the last part. So we can save some of it.

This episode has gone long tonight, not only because of technical issues that we've been having all night with storms and Wi-Fi, but also we've covered a lot. But I'll say my part. You can give your final words on it. You might not agree with everything I said, but I really do believe that this entire group of individuals, specifically Alex, Lori, and Chad, I don't believe these were three serial killers or a group of serial killers that were masking or disguising themselves as religious nuts. I do think they were religious nuts. I do. I really do think they believed in this religion. I think they believed that there were higher powers within the religion and had a duty to eradicate these demons and zombies that were walking the earth, including their own children, if need be. And I feel like they thought they were doing God's work when they did what they did. And if I had to guess, as I was just saying two minutes ago, I believe all three were active participants in the murder and disposal of these two children and would have been active in many other murders

of multiple people if they hadn't been caught. And I think they used a lot of this religion to justify their actions. But I'm not saying it makes it any better. It doesn't. It doesn't help at all. The why does not matter. But I do believe that we have people in this world and they're not the only group. I mean, we taught, you mentioned Charles Manson briefly in one of the episodes that a lot of these individuals actually believe that what they're doing, uh, they're, they're better for it. And clearly they're not, they're not. And it's, uh, it's an unfortunate set of circumstances.

They're definitely completely out of their minds. And I'm, I'm sad that what happened happened, but I'm also glad that they were caught before they could continue to do what they were doing because nobody knows how deep this would have went. But without being too graphic, the backyard of Chad Daybell could have been a lot worse. There could have been many bodies found.

Yeah, like Melanie's kids, you know? Yeah, that backyard could have been filled with people if it were up to Chad and Lori. I do believe that. So I definitely will say I believe Alex Cox was a religious nut in a way that he was just a person who was looking for something to like give him purpose. And even his, you know, Zulema Pestinez, she will marry him in November and then he dies in December. And she said like he would have done anything. He was so manipulated and so like under the control of Chad and Lori, he would have done

anything. As far as Chad and Lori go, once again, I can't 100% say that they were completely religious nuts. I think that there was something more nefarious there. I think that everything would have been fine if they hadn't met each other and like fallen into this weird like obsessive Romeo Juliet kind of love story. That they just like allowed to consume them. To consume them and become more important than anything else or anybody else. I don't think that they really believed half this shit. I think maybe towards the end they made themselves believe it more because it justified what they were doing. And then they were like, well, yeah, I'm doing it for a purpose.

Like it's a bigger purpose. It's not just me and Chad or me and Lori. It's like a bigger purpose. It's to save the world. So it would justify it for them. But I just, I don't, especially Chad, I think he just used it to get his way. He was like a loser who, you know, never felt important, never felt seen. And having this like religious power, you know, this standing in the eyes of anybody made him feel special and he couldn't

lose it. He couldn't lose it. And he had to keep using it to manipulate people to want to be around him because honestly, if he didn't have that, who would even want to like hang out with Chad Daybell? Nobody. Nobody. So I think he's just like a sad, lost person. And Lori is manipulative and she uses people. And it was just a bad, a bad combo. But I don't feel bad for Alex Cox, by the way. I'm not being like, get letting him off the hook. I do not feel bad for him at all. But I think out of all of them, he was probably the most weak minded and just kind of like did whatever Lori wanted always always did whatever Lori wanted well it's like a lot of these cults right where the the main people the leaders right they'll go after the weak-minded people because they're easily manipulated it's easy to convince them to do what you want they're

looking for a sense of purpose and when you give them one they will go to the end of the earth to not let you down I definitely agree with you as far as Lori and Chad. I don't want to say the word smart people, but they're more put together and they know what they're doing. They know by using someone like Alex. They're like calculated and conniving. Yeah. And then they can identify a person like Alex and realize, hey, he's going to be easy to convince to do whatever we want to do. But I will say with Lori not showing any type of regret or remorse over the fact that she was involved at minimum with the killing of her two children, I feel like there has to be something going on there.

There has to be some type of mental illness going on. I feel like it's just a way to self-regulate. It's a way to keep your self-esteem intact. Like you can't look at yourself. It's like a lot of people, narcissists, right? Which she is, objectively, they can't look at themselves and say, I'm wrong. I did something bad. Let me pose this though.

Could it be something where the reason why there was no emotion over the death of her two children that we know of is because she genuinely did not believe she killed her children. She believed she eradicated two dark spirits that just so happened to be in the bodies of what once was her children. So therefore, she felt like she was doing the right thing and therefore not upset. I think she wanted us to think that she thought she was doing the right thing. Okay. Fair enough. Fair enough. Any final thoughts?

I mean, it's a terrible ending of an episode, to be honest. Like, I mean, I know we have to go to another one. It's just a terrible ending. Yeah. So I really don't know where to go with it. I mean, it's. We should just wrap it up. We've been, if it's been a long time and we're going to talk about a lot more next time.

Okay. Well, any final words from you? Nothing? No. No final words. I'm not even going to say any final words. We're obviously, you know, rest in peace, JJ, Tylee, and we're going to get into more of it. Terrible to think that they went through that. Always sucks about covering these cases. At the hands of their uncle. And then to just know, like Alex Cox is in that picture with Tylee and JJ at Yellowstone, smiling, looks like a normal family gathering. He knows what he's going to do. Well, we're thinking of them and hopefully they're in a better place now.

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