Crime Weekly - S3 Ep145: Our Interview With Elizabeth Smart

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

In June of 2002, a 14-year-old girl was taken from her bedroom in the middle of the night, from a quiet home in one of the safest neighborhoods in one of the safest cities in America. Her name was Elizabeth Smart. This case has endured for more than two decades, not only because of what happened to Elizabeth, but because of how it happened. It forces us to confront uncomfortable questions about trust, faith, and what happens when deeply held beliefs collide with someone willing to exploit them.Elizabeth wasn't held for hours or days. She was a prisoner for nine months, subjected to repeated trauma and torture that would have broken most adults. But Elizabeth's story is not just about what happened to her. It's also about survival and strength. It's about a young girl who would later turn the unimaginable into advocacy and support for victims of kidnapping and sexual violence.Enter to win TWO badges to CrimeCon 2026 in Las Vegas here: CrimeCon 2026 Badge GiveawayTry our coffee! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. https://www.Rula.com/CrimeWeekly - Connect with high quality therapists TODAY with Rula!2. https://www.TryFUM.com - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for a FREE gift with your Journey Pack!3. https://www.FactorMeals.com/CrimeWeekly50Off - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY50OFF for 50% off your first box and FREE breakfast for a year!

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please contact Connix Ontario at 1866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Lavasar. And today, as you see, we have Elizabeth Smart with us, as promised. Yeah.

Over 10 hours, we were just talking before we hit record. over 10 hours of actual crime weekly, not including all the research that Stephanie did. So I feel like anybody who's followed this series up to this point is very familiar with Elizabeth's story, but not necessarily her life or where she is now. And I know for some of you, if you're not following Elizabeth, she's doing some great things out there.

She's making a big difference. And we were talking about some other things she's got going on, septic tanks, et cetera. We won't go into it. The boring stuff. But I was saying in the series, Elizabeth, I got the chance to know you a little bit on America's Most Wanted. And I almost feel guilty because we had one dinner together where we talked a little bit. And you mentioned in passing about some of your experiences and what you went through.

But what I love about you is you don't sit there and you're just not, it's not about me, me, me. You were always talking about how you're helping others. You and Callahan a lot when we went to dinner. And I have so much respect and admiration for you because now knowing the depths of what you went through. And candidly, I personally think you saved your family's lives. I really do. But based on your decisions and your actions that night, I think that's the reason you're all still here.

Just my personal opinion. So knowing how young you are, were at the time, 14, I have a daughter that's 13. And knowing that you had the wherewithal at that time to make those decisions under those stressful circumstances, I just gained even more respect for you than I already had. So I appreciate you coming on and talking to us for a little bit. Absolutely. Glad to come on. So we can sort of start by, if you want, Derek, we can kind of talk about, first of all, Elizabeth has written, you know, she's done a million things. And she's also written three books. I have read two of them at this point. Your most recent book is called detours, correct?

Yes. Now, this is- Mount in December, right? December? Okay, cool. This is more of a book about how you kind of have moved through things in your life. So whereas your book from 2013, my story, which I used very heavily when I was researching this case, that was more about what happened to you and things like that. Detours is more about, you know, kind of speaking to people who have gone through similar trauma or, you know, multitudes of trauma and how to sort of move through that and and recover and live a life that's

full, correct? Yeah, it's, I mean, it's not even, what people have gone through doesn't even have to even be remotely similar to what I've experienced. It could be hopefully anything and you'd be like, oh, okay, it's okay to feel sad. Like, it's okay to like grieve the life I had imagined myself for myself that is no more. It's kind of trying to find like those kind of high level turning points that I found in my own healing journey. I found this book to be incredibly, I guess, uplifting. I don't want to say it in such a basic way because there's so much to it. But there was a lot of, we asked people, did you have any questions for Elizabeth?

And there was a lot of people who have been through things that were similar to what you had been through and, you know, obviously other things in their lives. And a lot of them had questions for you as in, you know, what kinds of things did you do as you moved through life, if you dealt with recurring memories or unresolved things, to sort of feel better and to deal with really low days or periods of depression, periods of sadness. And I want you to answer that in your own way, but I think that a lot of those people should check out that book because it's going to be so very comprehensive to help you do that.

And Elizabeth can answer in her way now. I'll let her do that, obviously. but this book will be something you can return to time and time again. Because what I've found when you're moving through trauma is you'll deal with something and then six months down the road or two years down the road, you'll deal with something else that you had never previously dealt with. And so you can return to that book then to figure out how you can sort of move through this different season of your trauma journey and your healing journey.

But Elizabeth, as far as your response to this, if you can answer for the people listening now, what do you do or what have you done when you've gone through periods of sadness or low days or periods of depression? And you've had to sort of work through that. Well, first of all, thank you so much for your kind words. I certainly hope that my most recent book is like a friend, is just like a companion that you can turn it. to if you need help or suggestions. But putting that aside, I mean, I remember very vividly just quickly after I was rescued, having the thought enter my mind that if I died tomorrow, then the only thing people would talk about at my funeral would be my abduction, would be my

kidnapping. And I remember just sitting there thinking, by the time I die, like whenever that day comes, I don't want my kidnapping mentioned at all. Like, I don't want that to be the only thing that people remember about me or, like, that's what they associate me with. And so from, like, almost day one of being rescued, I, not only did I have a huge fear of missing out on things, but I just knew that I wanted my life to mean so much more than just my kidnapping. So I feel like I just have, I don't want to say just like filled my life up with like nothingness, but I have tried to live life to the fullest. Like I don't want to look back and have regrets. I mean, I dyed my hair red once because I was like, I wonder what I'd look at as a redhead.

And I'd always been too scared to do it. And then I remember thinking, what if I get to 80 one day? And I'm looking back on my life. What a stupid regret to not to be like, oh, I wish I knew what I looked like with red hair. So I did it. So how did you look? Yeah, well, it's the verdict. Well, I'm blonde again.

I'm blonde again. Don't you tell you all you need to know. I mean, no, look, I liked it. It was a fun change. Every morning when I got up and like walked to the mirror, I was like, oh, my gosh, who is that person? Is she? That's not me. But again, like I said, I'm blonde again.

Glad I did it. But I do think there is some truth that time has the power to hear. or at least less in pain to a degree. And I say all this because now when I'm like on my own or like in my quiet time and I start reflecting back on my life, my brain doesn't just go immediately to when I was kidnapped. Like yes, that might be one of the single biggest experiences of my life. But that's not all of my life. and I'm like for me it's been helpful to be able to experience more things so that I do have more things to

look back on and be like I did that I'm so proud of myself for doing that and actually it's to a point where I actually think I talk about this in in my most recent book where I've ran I've run a few marathons and usually around mile 18 I'm like I hate this why am I doing this to myself? I'm actually paying to be in pain, to get like a banana and a little metal that everyone gets at the end. Like, why am I doing this to myself? This is sheer idiocy. But then usually that's when like my brain all kicking and be like Elizabeth.

Like, you're stronger than this. You're better than this. You survived nine months of being kidnapped. You can survive the last eight miles, six miles, whatever it is. Like, you can finish. You can walk it, but you can finish. Stop being, you've done much harder things.

Like, get back up and keep going. And so for me, it's almost like something that was so terrible once, now reminds me of how capable I am now or how strong I am now. And have there been difficult times? Absolutely. 100%. I mean, like, everything leading up to the trial, which, you know, what was eight years from the time that I was rescued? Like there was so much frustration involved in that.

There were times I was like, I don't want to talk to anybody else. I've already talked to people. You're asking me the same questions that everyone asked. Why is this even a question? Like, everyone knows that these two people did it. How can they possibly, like, how can there be a world where there's a statute of limitations where they could possibly walk free? How could that possibly happen? So there's been, yeah, there's been hard times. And I think another point that I bring up in my book is talking about pursuing connection fearlessly. I think for me that's probably been one of the biggest influencing factors in my healing

is just finding people who I know will show up for me day or night, people that I can trust, people that I can talk to and maybe I've talked to them about the same thing 20,000 times, but they'll still be there for the 20,000th and first time to listen to me. And they're not just like, oh, Elizabeth, just get over it. Having those people in my life has been huge because then when I do feel sad, I can call them up and I can just be like, I don't know why, but this is, like, I'm just really struggling today. And I don't think this is fair. And I don't want to be unhappy or I don't want to be here. But having, like having that safety net in my life has made a huge difference for me. Do you think that was one of the hardest parts? Like when this happened to you, you were 14.

So afterwards, if you didn't already trust somebody and know that they were a good person, was it hard for you afterwards to move forward and open yourself up to trust or get to know anyone else knew. I would say I was a lot more cautious after and I mean, frankly, I was nervous to be around men by myself. Understandable. I mean, I just, yeah, I just, I wasn't comfortable about with it. And, you know, people have asked me so many times over the years like, oh, how are you married? Like, after everything that you experienced, how are you okay being married? And you've got kids. Like, how are you okay with that? And I'm like, how am I okay? How are you? sex after being raped? Is that what you're asking? Yes, that's what they're asking. To answer that

question, but even bigger and more broadly, like, you know, when I was rescued, I was 15, I was still a kid. I wasn't coming home to an arranged marriage. I wasn't forced to be with someone who is older than my dad. I was allowed as much as possible to go back and be a kid, to go back and, like, yes, life was different, life never returned to the way it was, but I was allowed to some degree to reclaim who I had once been. And I feel like that gave me like the time that I needed to grow so that by the time I was ready to like date and have boyfriends, it was very different than being kidnapped. And by the time I got married, I mean, you know, here this young man was getting down on his knees asking me to marry him. Whereas when I was kidnapped with all your many hours of research,

you know, nobody got down on their knees to ask me to marry them. I was pulled and forced. So completely different experiences. Well, I think you said earlier to mourn the life that you thought you would have. So leaving that situation, obviously you're not going to want this life you thought you would have of romance and having somebody get down on their knee and propose to you and love you and support you and start a family with them, you're not going to let Brian David Mitchell and Wanda Barzies steal that from you when they've already taken so much. You're going to try to eventually open yourself up to having that happen because that's what you, you know, that's, I think whatever everybody wants. That's what you deserve. Yeah. You know, that's what you deserve. And you have a

beautiful family. Obviously, I follow you along on Instagram and I can see the support system around you and to what you said earlier as far as not letting the kidnapping define you, you've done that. You've accomplished it. I mean, for me, one of the defining moments when we were covering your case, just that made me proud to be your friend was seeing you up there in your first press conference after the trial and you take that time to highlight another case. I mean, if that doesn't right there define you, I don't know what will. I mean, that's such a powerful statement when it's about you.

It's supposed to be about you and your vindication, your job. and yet you decided to highlight someone else's tragedy that was ongoing. So you've done it and you're continuing to do it. And I love that you were able to take something that's so horrific and find a way to motivate you because people have choices in life. Right. We all go through tough times and you can either let it break you or make you. And you can take that and say, hey, I was able to do this. I can do anything. And I think that's what the message is when I hear your story is. here is a young girl who went through basically the worst thing you can go through, and she's using it even now, as you're telling us, in marathons,

to motivate yourself to go that extra mile. And I think whether you've been through something you've been through or just something that was tough for you, that's something that we can all learn from when we're trying to push ourselves to go outside our comfort zone. So you're definitely accomplishing your mission as far as being more than your story from many years ago. You know what's frustrating?

Realizing you probably could have used therapy during a really stressful time, but the moment you actually try to find someone, it suddenly feels impossible. Yeah, finding a therapist can be hard enough, but finding one who actually takes your insurance, that's where people usually hit a wall. Exactly. That and scheduling. You have to wait weeks, sometimes months before someone has an opening. And a lot of online therapy options don't work with insurance at all, which means you're paying the full cost out of pocket or committing to a really expensive subscription. But ruling, Rula does things differently.

Yeah, Rula is a health care provider group that partners with over 100 insurance plans, which brings the average copay to about $15 per session. And depending on your benefits, it can even be $0. And it's real care from licensed professionals, therapists, and psychiatrists that's actually covered by insurance, which makes taking care of your mental health feel realistic instead of overwhelming. And Rula doesn't just match you with whoever happens to be available next. They look at your goals, your preferences, and your background.

to give you a curated list of licensed in-network therapists who actually are a good fit. They work with more than 15,000 therapists and psychiatrists nationwide, and there are no wait lists. Like I said earlier, sometimes you have to wait weeks or months. No, not with Rula. Appointments can be available as soon as tomorrow, which is amazing. And Rula stays involved in your care as well. They don't just hook you up with someone and then leave you hanging. They help with scheduling.

They check in on progress and they make sure you're getting the support that you need. Thousands of people are already using Rula to get affordable, high-quality therapy that's actually covered by your insurance. And listen, we've talked about mental health a lot on this channel. I've definitely gone to therapy. I think Stephanie has said that as well. And it doesn't always, there's a stigma around it where if you need therapy, there's something wrong with you. I like to do it as just a personal checkup, a check-in to speak to someone who's objective about the situation, is not personally connected to it. And it is licensed in it and has a background in it and knows how to treat.

whatever's bothering me from a, from a scientific level, not just as a friend. And I think everybody, regardless of what you're going through, regardless of how things might be in your life, everyone can use someone to talk to. So visit rula.com slash crime weekly to get started. After you sign up, you'll be asked how you heard about them. Please support our show and let them know we sent you. That's rula.com slash crime weekly. You deserve mental health care that works with you, not against your budget.

And a lot of people did have that question. How do you handle being a mother? How do you handle parenthood? And how has that affected the way that you parent just for your outward behavior with your own children and your internal kind of conversation with yourself? I think it's made me a much more aware parent, just aware of what can happen, what does happen. It's influenced me to have a lot harder conversations, a lot quicker, much quicker than I would have ever imagined I'd be ready for. I mean, honestly, I still don't feel like I'm ready for them, but I'm still having them.

I mean, usually when I tell my kids no to something, I'm like, do you understand why I'm saying no? Like, do you know why? And they're like, oh, it's because you just want us to be safe. I'm like, yes, it's because I want you to be safe. And that's why we have some of the rules that we have. Like, we do not do sleepovers in our house. And I would say it definitely has affected a lot of how I parented or how I parent today. I don't know that I would, I think I probably would have just kind of continued on in like the bubble that I grew up in thinking like, oh, we live in a nice neighborhood.

Like, we're a nice family. Like, nothing bad could possibly happen to us. Like we don't have enemies or we haven't like heard anyone else. Like nothing bad can happen to us. I think it would have been very easy just to kind of continue on in that mentality. Whereas now I'm like, who are you? What are you doing? Why do you think that's okay?

No, you can't go there. 100%. We were just we were literally just talking about this because my oldest gives me some pushback now. When I'm, she wanted to basically go with a friend's nanny to go to the mall. And I was available. And I'm like, no, I'll bring you guys. I'll keep a safe distance. You'll have your phone on you.

But if something happens, I'm within reach of you. Oh, God, you're just like that because of what you saw when you were a detective. And I'm like, yeah, partially, but it's educated me. And I use it to try to make sure it doesn't happen to you or someone I care about. Is there anything that you would offer advice towards? I mean, obviously you have your own practices. You said no sleepovers. I'm kind of on board with you there.

There's been a couple exceptions that I've made. people think I'm crazy, but I kind of agree with you. A lot of the cases that I worked, they usually started out of sleepover or a party like that at someone else's home, even when they had met the parents. So I'm kind of on board with you there. Is there any other tips like that you can think of that may help others? I mean, like, I think like a lot of parents will be like, well, Elizabeth, like, how do you talk to your kids without scaring them?

Like, when do you start talking to them? I'm like, well, it's not just like one day you're just going along and all of a sudden you're like, okay, let's talk about rape, rape culture. Let's talk about human, like, I was like, it's not, you don't do that. Like, what really should have happened is like from the time that they're like little, you know, when you're talking like, this is your nose. This is your, you know, your cheek, your lips, your teeth. Like, this is your elbow.

Like, this is your penis. This is your, you know, your vulva, your vagina. Like, it should, like, the conversation. should honestly start like that. Very young, very basic, not just refer to them as your private parts. And case in point, a day after I was rescued, I was brought to the Children's Justice Center. I was told if I had to speak to these two psychiatrists, well, I actually wasn't told. My parents were told if I spoke to them that they could stand proxy for me during the trial. So I went in there. it was very like intense interviewing.

They wanted to get all the graphic nitty gritty details. You know, it ended up being two men, two middle-aged men, who were both like clearly religious. And like we didn't share a religion, which like that's fine. Like that I don't have a problem with that. But just like at that point in time, they were men. They were a similar age to my captor. They were both religious.

Like the imbalance of power there was already like, way off. Like I definitely felt threatened. I definitely felt unsafe. I definitely did not want to be there. There were all of these factors that played into this that already made me feel tense, uneasy, scared, nervous. And like, it was like the first full day that I was going to be home.

There was no way I wanted to go to the Children's Justice Center to, like, rehash everything that had happened to me. So these two psychiatrists, they're like, well, what did they do to him? And be like, well, they hurt me. And they'd be like, well, how'd they hurt you? And I'm like, well, they molest me. Well, how'd they molest you? And be like, well, how'd they molest you? And be like, well, do you know what rape is?

Could you explain rape to me? And I was like, well, yeah, he forced himself inside me. And I'd be like, okay, no, we need you to like spell it out. Can you use anatomically correct body part names? And I was like, well, it got to the point where I had to say he repeatedly forced his penis into my vagina and as a 15-year-old girl who really grew up only hearing like people refer to like those genitalia as your private parts, they're your private parts, they're your private parts, or like, you know, I've got four brothers, like them being boys. Like I'd never said that

before. And honestly, it was mortifying to me because there was already shame attached to the word penis or to the word vagina. So that was, I mean, like everything about that situation was terrible to me, was horrible to me. So when parents say like, well, where can I begin today? I say, well, like, when you're teaching them body parts, just call a penis a penis. Like, that's what it is. And it's a body part.

Like, why is there a shame attached to it if it's just like it's a body part? It's like elbow. It's like me. Yeah, Stephanie calls me that all the time. and the other version of it. But I mean, like, I do just think, like, there is importance in teaching, like, the anatomically correct body part names because it's so funny. I mean, I guess, like, maybe it's specific to Utah, but in my, actually, in my experience, I'd say it's pretty common everywhere that people have, like, their funny names for genitalia and, like, very few. people just like refer to it as yep you know my my vagina hurts my my penis hurts whatever

and there's like other emotions yeah other like other emotions are attached to it and if you're like already coming from a conservative background conservative culture then you're then it just makes it even worse and so like that's like something so easy that you can start off with right the right out of the door with talking about and just being like, yep, this is what it is. And then, you know, from there, like as they get a little bit older, like kids naturally have kind of like that shy, not all kids, but in my kids, I've noticed like when they meet someone for the first time, like, they're not just like running up to them and being like, hey, like they're a little bit standoffish. They're like, who are you? And they like stand behind me and like, you know, they're just more cautious. But also

then reinforcing to them that like their body is their own. Right. So my mom. mother-in-law, she lives in the UK. And so we don't see her very often. And it's always a big deal when she comes to visit because it's so far away. But also helping my kids realize that if they did not want to give her a hug because they didn't feel safe or they didn't feel comfortable, that that is their body, that that is their choice, that they don't have to hug anyone they don't want to. And, you know, that would be a very easy thing for me to be like, but, you know, this is your grandma. She came all the way from from england to come and see you she came all the way across the world just to see you you don't want to give her hug it would be so easy for me as a parent to do that but then what is that

doing to them that's reinforcing them that to some degree their body is not their own that they don't have ownership over their body and that they can't make decisions for their own body and children should know that this is your body yes there might be times where um you know you like a doctor might need to look at you, but that also being said, like, I should be present. As your mother, I should be present. Even if it's someone that you think you should trust, and they're like, oh, it's okay, we can just get changed naked together and you don't want to. You don't have to. Like, teaching them that body autonomy, that their body is their own. That is huge. That's huge. And letting them know that you support them in what they choose for their body, that is huge, not just overriding them.

and being like, oh, but you never see her, go give her a hug. Like, these are, this is not just sitting there and talking and being like, oh, okay, well, we don't talk to people who we don't know because half the time strangers probably are the safer people than the ones you do know. But just starting with those, those are really basic, easy things. And then these conversations, it can't just be one and done. Like, if you have a conversation with me once, I'm sorry, there is a very, very, good chance that I will not be able to tell you. I might remember us talking, but I probably

won't be able to tell you what we talked about if it was just one time. Like, I need the repetition or I need notes taken during the conversation or a calendar invite. Because if I don't have any of those, it's just not going to happen. I completely agree on the bodily autonomy thing with your children. And I find that it can for some reason seem controversial within family dynamics, extended family dynamics, and you have to really make your boundaries clear on that to people, because especially older generations, they don't understand. I was raised in a family. We were Italian, and it was like, no, you're seeing 75 of your uncles and cousins and aunts today,

and you're going to hug every single one of them. And you're going to, if they want to give you a kiss, you're going to give them a kiss because it's your family. It's what you do. And I remember as a kid being like, you know, I don't feel, it just happens to be today. I don't feel like being touched. Like I don't want to hug everybody. I don't feel like it today.

And not having that autonomy to say that as a child, it adds to the powerlessness that you already feel as a child. And you have to explain this to in-laws and even, you know, your own family. It's nothing personal. But if my child does not want to give you a hug today or if my child doesn't want to go to your house today or if my child doesn't want to sleep over at your house because they want to come home, this is not something you get to make them feel guilty or bad about because that's, That's not how I'm choosing to raise them. And having to communicate your boundaries and make sure those are clear to people, even in your own family, can cause some pushback and some, yeah, because they don't understand it and they don't think that you should be raising your kids that way for some reason. And it's so important, and I completely agree. And, you know, it might be considered controversial by some, even in our own comment section.

Because Derek and I are always saying things in our comments. We said no sleepovers. And a few episodes ago and we had people being like, that's ridiculous. But no, this is, you know, we do true crime. We're in this world and we see these stories every day. And this is how we feel we need to to raise our children and exist in the world in order to sleep at night and not be completely stressed out all the time. And that's what happens. And even beyond that, you can do everything right.

You can have the conversations. you can have the rules, you can do everything right and bad things can still happen. I mean, like I'm not saying my parents were perfect. We didn't have a lot of those conversations because we didn't know, but they certainly did their best. And I was by no means, like a wild child. Nobody would have ever looked at me like as a 14 year old and been like, oh, got to watch that one.

Like, she is a rebel. No one in their right mind would ever have thought that about me. Honestly, no one now probably would think about that about me now. But like, I lived in the right neighborhood. I lived in a nice home. I had a nice family. Like, I went to bed when I was supposed to go to bed. I wasn't wandering down dark alleys.

I wasn't like on, what was it back then? AOL or whatever it was back then. Yeah. Yeah, like chatting online, going into chat rooms and talking to people I didn't know. like I wasn't doing any of those things and it still happened to me. So even doing all the right things, bad things can still happen. Yeah, but I still love the premise of what you're saying. And it's interesting because I'm learning as a parent every day, but the programming of your children, connecting those neurons and setting them up for something where they may have to make a decision

and push back on something. I love that because with my kids, I push them a lot on like, hey, you never put your hands on someone, but if someone puts their hands on you, you have the right to defend yourself. You don't let people hurt you. And I've never had that conversation where it's like, hey, if you don't feel like giving someone a hug or a kiss, you have the right to say no. I've never had that conversation. And now I will because I want them to start to correlate, hey, I don't feel comfortable with this. I have the right, even if you're an adult, to push back. Because like you said, it's their body. And I have two girls. So it's something where, you know, I try to have those conversations as the dad. It is difficult sometimes for me, but I'm trying to get more

comfortable with it. And that is something where I love the idea of programming them young to have this ability to know that when someone an adult doesn't matter who it is, wants to touch you, you from the get go have the right to say no. It's your body. I think that's the underlying theme there is it's your body. And it's a very interesting perspective because that could help them down there. Now, your situation was a little different. obviously, but I think on a more surface level like sleepovers, if they're programmed to think, hey, if the adult pushes me to do this, I have to do it because that's what I've been taught. And so I do think there's something to that.

Well, and then also just like taking it a step further, you know, we like we have cancel culture today. We have like if you. What's that? You've heard of it. You don't know what it is. You know what? I don't either actually.

But like, I think it's, I think it's good to be as accurate, as compassionate as possible. Like, yes to all of those things. I think being polite is good. I hope nobody would ever come across me and think, wow, she is just, she is so rude. Like, who does she think she is? Like, I hope nobody ever has that impression of me. But I also just want to say that I think many of us and, probably more females as well than men, males.

I would say they prioritize other people's feelings over their own safety. Like I was given this example, I don't know, years ago, and it's always just kind of stuck in my head. And maybe you've already talked about it, or you've probably already heard it, so I'm probably just saying something you've already heard. But it just, like, affected me so much.

I've never forgot it. In the animal kingdom, you would never see, like, a gazelle willingly get into an elevator with a lion. Like, there's no way. It's not going to end well. Yeah, it's not going to end well. But, like, as a woman, you know, like, if I'm going to the airport, like, and I get open the elevator and there's someone in there that I'm like, oh, oh, oh, it's almost

like I just get in regardless because I'm like, oh, well, I'm waiting for the elevator. It's going to look weird if I don't get in. There's just one person in there. Like, it'll probably be okay. and isn't that just like kind of sad that I am and then also in my mind I'm like well what will this person think if I don't get in what if he thinks it's I'm not getting in because of the way he looks which well they couldn't fully be wrong yeah yeah but so you mean don't ignore your instincts like if you just feel off about something to make somebody else comfortable or to not hurt their feelings yeah yeah I'm glad I don't do that yeah like like if you're on a date like I mean I haven't been on a date for a really long time like with You're lucky, yeah. With someone besides my husband and I haven't been on a date for a very long time. But like even back then I can remember like thinking like, oh, well, he just probably

thinks this. Oh, well, he probably is just thinking that, oh, well. And like, like, space, space, more space and more space, excuses, excuses, and more excuses were given until I was like, I'm really not okay with this. And I should have like stopped it right when I had my first like whinge of something in my stomach instead of waiting until I was like, this is a red flag. This is not okay. Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. I think it's amazing advice, especially nowadays. Better be safe than sorry, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Women do have a tendency to ignore their instincts

because they're trying to make other people comfortable or they're afraid of hurting feelings or they're afraid of, you know, being called a bitch or you look like a, you seem mean. You're stuck up. Yeah. Yeah. That's great advice for our audience who is, you know, I would say majority female. Yeah. About 89. 90% female. Yeah, for sure. You know what people don't talk about enough when it comes to quitting smoking or vaping? The habit itself is not just always the nicotine. It's the hand-to-mouth motion, that little pause during the day, the muscle memory, this thing that you get used to doing that's beyond,

you know, dependency on a certain substance. It's what your body and your brain becomes used to. Yeah, that loop your brain expects, right, where you break that pattern and suddenly your brain's going, wait, what am I? supposed to do now. This isn't the norm. Yeah, exactly. And that's where fume comes in. It's actually kind of genius. It's a flavored air device designed to help people quit vaping or smoking by replacing that hand to mouth habits. There's no nicotine. There's not even any batteries or vapor. It's just a weighted fidget-friendly device that gives your hands and mouth something else to reach for when those old brain loops pop up. Yeah, and honestly, for me, the fidget factor alone is extremely helpful. I talk about it all

the time. If you're watching really closely, you'll see that I'm usually, I usually got something in my hand. It's usually the fume. I love the look. I love the weight. And I do like the fidget aspect of it. You got the twist and you also got the magnet, although I do have to be careful when recording so that the mic doesn't pick it up. I've had moments where I've picked up the fume just to fidget, not even because I was thinking about a craving. And that interruption is the whole point, right? It breaks the old pattern before you fall back into it. And if my new pattern is just fidgeting with the fume device instead of, you know, doing something that's not so great for me, then I'll take it. Yeah, and the flavors are intentionally lighter than vaping, more like a flavored water

compared to, like, soda. And my personal favorite is the orange vanilla. I like the frutier ones. The raspberries are really, really good. The, what did you say? Orange Vanilla, the Creamsicle one. Yeah, that's the one I like. I think is orange vanilla, but it tastes like a cream school to me.

So I always refer to it as creamcicle. They're subtle, fresh, but really, really satisfying. Yeah, and Fume has already helped over 700,000 people take steps toward better habits. Now it's your turn. Stephanie, tell them where to go. So when you grab a journey pack, you're also going to get a free gift just for using our code. So head to tryfume.com. That's T-R-Y-F-U-M dot com and use code crime weekly to claim your free gift today. The Bell Air Direct app includes crash assist, which detects an accident the moment it happens, and even offers you emergency assistance at the tap of a button.

Okay, but what if I... I don't have an accident. Well, just keep on keeping on. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified, conditions apply. We had a lot of questions from our audience. We're going to get to them. We had some Patreon questions. We had some questions in the comments.

I personally have a couple of questions because our format is Stephanie kind of tell, she does all the research. She tells me the story. And then I asked questions to her. But there were a couple of questions I wanted to ask you. And they're not necessarily to do exactly with the case, but maybe the trial as well. The first question I had, which you may be

able to answer it, you may not, but just being around Brian David Mitchell for as long as you had been around him, at some point he may have become, I guess, bored, right, being up there. Let's say that they didn't find you, that they didn't identify you, that they didn't bring you back home. What do you think the end game for Brian was? Do you think that he would have let you leave at some point? Do you think he would have killed you? What do you think would have happened if you were up there much longer than you had already been? He would have never let me go. Never. No, I agree. He would definitely not. He would have never let me go.

I feel like a little bit, a little bit torn saying this because, like, the whole defense in the trial was like a question of competency. Yeah. Could he be made competent to stand trial right now and could they prove competency back then? and like everything just circled around whether or not he was competent then and now and so I've always been like really hesitant to say like he was crazy

or he didn't understand what he was doing because he did he did oh yeah for sure and he knew what he was doing he found out the best way to manipulate people and he took advantage of it and ultimately I think what it came down to was just he wanted to rape little girls

he wanted to feel like he was in control he wanted to feel like he was powerful powerful. He wanted to do what he wanted to do without getting in trouble. So I don't think he would have ever let me go. I think he would have continued, I know, well, I mean, he did make two other attempts to kidnap other girls. That's right. Yeah. I think he would have kept trying to kidnap more girls, whether or not he was successful. Thank heavens, I am a late bloomer quite literally in every sense of the word. You know, I didn't start my period until after I had been kidnapped for six months. So, like, I'd only had a period three times before I was rescued and like, they weren't

regular. I know this is all territory you wanted to go into. But, like, they weren't regularly. Like, I bled nonstop. But no doubt, like, eventually they would have become regular and I would have gotten pregnant at some point. And I could have died. I don't know. Like, he could have killed me. Like, he would not have let me go. That's why I ask because, and I hate to use the word lucky, I'm not, you know, I won't, but a lot of the cases that I worked where something similar occurs where there's, there's molestation for an extended period of time, the offenders will, like you said, they're not going to let you go because you're a liability, right? But also they get fatigued and then they ultimately will kill you. So I don't want to say lucky, but the fact that you're still with us were so lucky to have you because it could have gone the other way, where if he had gotten fatigued and no longer felt like he, quote, unquote had use for you, he could have killed you and we could have found you in those woods.

And I'm so happy that's not the case. But that's something where it could have gone either way. And I hear the story and I think about how long he had you there. It could have ended a lot. I wish it would have ended a lot sooner. But lucky for us, he didn't go to that extreme. He wanted you around. Like you said, he wanted to bring in more girls.

But that is something that I think about because just one day, if he came up that mountain and said, you know what, this is just too much. This is getting to be too much of a hassle for me. It could have been a different story. And I'm so glad that that's not the case. Me too. Yeah, you too. I know Derek wanted to also talk about the time in the library when you were there with Brian

David Mitchell and Wanda and the detective came in the homicide detective. And he was looking for you because there had been a report that you were there and somebody had recognized your eyes. And, you know, he was asking you to remove the veil and they wouldn't let him. And how did you feel in that moment? because obviously you talked about it in your book and, you know, we theorized, well, how would you have known that this was a man you could trust when you had already been shown that you couldn't trust this other adult man that you were with? How did you know that even if you had removed the veil or grabbed him? Like this detective said, you know, she could have just grabbed me and then she would have been safe. I mean, this, this Brian David Mitchell was convincing this guy that he was related to you in some ways. So would the, would the detective have actually just snatched you away and brought you to safety, how would you have known that not only as a child, but as a child who had gone through so much and had their reality so skewed? So what was your feeling in that moment when you were in the library? I was scared. And that is another question I have

been asked so many times. And for years, I didn't even know how to answer. Like I felt angry when people used to ask me it because in my mind it was always just like so clear like I didn't know who this detective was and actually funny enough I didn't even know what the word homicide meant back then so he's like I'm a homicide detective was but I was like I have no idea I don't know what homicide means like he didn't say I'm looking for elizabeth smart he never at any point in my memory ever said Elizabeth smart he just said we've had a call we're looking for someone you know, you've been mentioned, we just want to see your face, blah, blah, blah. And now by that point, you know, I had been held captive for like four months, three, four months.

Like, it had been, it had been a significant amount of time. And in that time, no one had ever stopped him from hurting me. Nobody had ever stopped him from raping me. No one had ever stopped him from, like, withholding water or, or stopping me from sleeping. Like, no one had ever stood in his way and protected me. And I feel like for me, I just had to, the only person I could rely on was myself. And I had realized early on that my best chance of survival was to do what they said.

If I did what they said, then maybe they would like me, or a little bit like me, And if they liked me a little bit, maybe that would make them a little bit less likely to kill me because they could kill me. They 100% could kill me at any point in time. And so that had more or less been my strategy of survival. Just do whatever it is you have to do to survive. And up until that point, it was doing what they said to survive. And, you know, my captors have said, you know, if you ever scream, if you ever run, if you ever do something we don't want you to do, you know, we'll kill you. will kill your family. And like after experiencing everything that I experienced at their hands,

those were very, very real threats. And so again, like, although this man came up and he was like, I'm a detective, like, I didn't know who he was. And like, I didn't have any relationships with, like, I didn't know anyone who was a police officer. The most interaction I had with police officers prior to my abduction was the DARE program in fifth grade. That was his name. much interaction as I ever had with the police officer. And so I didn't, I didn't know if they were capable of protecting me. I mean, my captor used to bring back newspaper articles of the search being put on for me or the missing flyers that had my face on it. He'd bring them back to the camp and you'd be like, oh, the whole world's looking for you, but nobody's ever going to find

you because I have you. And it felt like that was true. Like, people came so close, so many times to finding me. But then they didn't. And when that happened, after that happened enough times, I mean, it really, it really did just begin to feel like my chance of rescue would be outliving them, would be just sheer age.

Yeah, I mean, I never looked at it from the perspective of you did anything wrong. Like you're a young woman trying to stay alive, exactly what you just said. I did give the detective a little bit a shit in the episode because for me, I understand it was a religious thing, but considering the circumstances and I had talked about how I would have handled it, but you would have been taking the veil off. It would have been there or it would have been at the station. And I know that's

kind of like Monday morning quarterbacking it. But I guess like a follow-up question would be, and I'm sure this detective feels horrible about it. Have you ever had the chance to speak with him? I did actually. I met him during the trial. And actually, I think he has since passed since then. I want to say he died of cancer perhaps, but I mean, he was crying when we chatted in the trial. But also, like, to cut him some slack, I think if you go back to 2002, like the time that I was kidnapped, it was only nine months after 9-11 happened. And I guess I can't speak for anywhere else in the country. But from my perspective, as a 14-year-old kid, watching the Twin Towers come down, watching everything, that happened after that, there was a level of fear. I feel like within the country around any

kind of extremism, there was a level of fear around Islam. At least that is what I perceived as a 14-year-old child. An adult might have a different perspective. But that is my perspective as a kid. And because I remember, like, on the few occasions that he'd bring me down into Salt Lake, you know, we were dressed in ropes. We had on veils. I mean, people referred to them as burkas. But, like, people would see us walking down the street. They would stop.

They'd cross the other side of the street. They'd keep walking till they were past us. And then they'd cross back over. Or people would roll down their windows and stick their heads out of their windows and yell, Osama at us. So, I mean, like, give that cop some, like. leeway, a little bit of... Liway.

Give him a little bit of a break. I mean, I do think it was an incredibly religiously sensitive time in the country. It's fair. I still would have made you take the veil down, but that's fine. So I don't know about you, Derek, but we've actually been kind of lucky this week with weather. We've had sun. The temperatures have gone up. It's the same for you?

Yeah, 65 degrees today. It's really nice. The sun being out is amazing. And then suddenly it's like you're breaking out of this winter coma and you're like, oh yeah, in a few months, short season is coming. Yeah. And then in that moment, that's when you realize like suddenly there's a lot less options as far as food's concerned if you want to look like, you know, you haven't been hibernating all winter. That's honestly where Factor has been super helpful. Somewhere between a busy schedule and trying to eat better, cooking every meal just wasn't realistic. In fact, you're solved. That was. with fully prepared meals designed by dietitians and crafted by chefs. Yeah, and the convenience is probably the most important thing to me. They're always fresh, never frozen, and ready to eat in about two minutes. Yeah, it's easy.

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Well, just keep on, keeping on. Bell Air Direct, insurance, simplified, conditions apply. Somebody had asked, if you could face Brian David Mitchell now and stand in front of him, would you do that? Would there be anything you'd have to say to him? Or is this kind of like, you're not even on my radar. You're not worth my energy. I have nothing to say to you.

Why would I? It's you don't even exist. No, I don't have anything to say to him. I mean, no. I have no desire to see him or to see Wanda Barzi. Like, I have no desire to have anything to do with him ever again. What do you think of? We talked briefly at the end of the last episode.

episode, Wanda getting out and then being arrested because she's in a park where she's not supposed to be. And then she says it's because God told her to go to this park. And I said, listen, this woman, you know, we can say what we want about Brian David Mitchell. I don't think there was ever a point where he was insane or didn't know what he was doing. Wanda Barsey, on the other hand, the woman's not in her right mind, never has been. And I mean, even her own children said so, why is she getting out? And then why after she's clearly saying, you know, Oh, God told me to go to the park, which either you're manipulating people, and I don't think she's smart enough to do that, or you actually, there's something mentally wrong with you and you need to be someplace where you can be watched. What is her, she got arrested, but she got, after she violated her parole, but she's, she's back out.

She's out there now, correct? Incredible. Yes. It's insane to me, but that's my opinion. What do you think about that? And how does it make you feel? And what, do you think she should be in prison forever? Because I think she should be in prison forever.

100%. Yeah. I was very disappointed when she was released. I remember just feeling like she was right there. 100%. She watched it happen. She was, you know, she planned. She helped plan the kidnapping.

She watched it happen. She prepared me to be raped by him. him. She encouraged it. She watched it. Like, my mom, when I was little, I remember she told us that if we ever saw bullying, like, on the school bus or at school, that if we didn't stick up for that kid, that we were a part of the problem. And maybe that's stuck in my head maybe a little bit too much. Maybe not. Because I look at her and I'm like, well, she didn't stick up for me. She's guilty. And then when you take into account that she had a prior marriage where she had six children in her prior marriage, like six, not one, not two, six. And like whether or not she was a crappy mom, like, I don't know, but she kept them alive. And there were six of them. Now, Stephanie went into that a little bit. We talked about that as well.

Yeah, she wasn't a spoiler. She was not known to be a great mother now. Yes, I know that's probably no surprise to you. On that same note, we had another question from a Patreon member. Her name's Alexandria. she said, what was it like to navigate the court system as a survivor, especially having to testify and face cross-examination? And how do you view the justice system's role in supporting victims or failing survivors during that process? Because we had some opinions about the defense team and some of the choices they made.

Well, as do I. We don't have a justice system. We have a legal system. I will never get back what was taken from me. No one can do that. No one can give back to me what was taken. No one can give back the life that was taken, the experience is taken, the whole life change that came about because of my kidnapping.

No one can go back and give me the life that I would have had. No one can go back and give me back my childhood. Like those things are gone. So we have a legal system and it is not victim friendly. it is I know this will never happen and I'm not trying to sound pessimistic it's just it never will

but when it comes to crimes sex crimes and specifically sex crimes against children it shouldn't be innocent until proven guilty it should be guilty until proven innocent in my opinion it's not fun it's awful I don't I understand

why victims don't want to press charges, I understand why they don't want to go through the courts. It's not a pleasant experience. It is a miserable experience. And it feels like, it feels like the whole court system is giving all the advantage to the perpetrator as opposed to the victim. And I mean, whether that's true or not, that's just how it feels. And it sucks. Yeah, you, you experienced it. No, we talked about it a lot. We just, for me in your case, and you already said it, there are some circumstances where allegations can be made in there. It's a slippery slope there, right? But with your case specifically, it was a no-brainer.

Nobody was disputing the fact that he did what he did. And by having those loopholes in the court system, he immediately went to from being very coherent, in my opinion, during those initial interrogations to singing Bible verses and hymns and all these different things because he knew what he needed to do to try to get to that level of being. incompetent. So the system was set up for him to try to beat it. Fortunately, he didn't, but to your point, I do think the justice system failed you to a certain degree because I think Wanda is equally culpable and yet she's walking amongst us today. So that, you know, even though you've been able to move on with your life and you have a beautiful family and you're doing a lot of great things, the fact that you as a victim have to know that one of your offenders, and in my opinion, they're both, they're pretty close to equal in my mind.

No, I'm with you. The fact that she's out. out there that it re-victimizes you. You might be strong enough to move past it, but you shouldn't have to. Yeah, I was not happy when she was released. And then I remember the governor coming out and saying, we're going to keep her on a very short leash. Like, we're going to be watching her. And yeah, she's been out now for, you know, a long time. And apparently that leash disappeared because Of course it does. It always does. Until they re-offend. And then they'll go, oh, you know, but that's the system. We're sorry. It's the same thing with just sex offenders who get out after. committing a heinous act and then they're on this sex offender registration and supposedly that's

supposed to prevent them from doing it again again I don't want to go off on a tangent but yeah it drives me insane I mean I feel like chemical castration should be put on the table but that's just me Elizabeth we knew you were our people because you know we get canceled for this all the time but we have a we have no leash for for anybody who commits crimes against children over here at crime weekly it's it's one and done okay it makes me question like if you like if you like if you you can't understand that, then what's what's in your closet? Yeah. No doubt.

Yes, right. No doubt. Which is a whole other can of words. I mean, once again, does it come down to being afraid of offending somebody as opposed to protecting everyone, right? That's where it comes down to when it's like, oh, you know, people are afraid of offending somebody and people want to be politically correct and nobody wants to get canceled. And what is the price we pay for this surface politeness when under the surface?

what's really happening is ugly and we don't want to acknowledge it because it might offend somebody or it might make somebody feel bad or not even just crimes against children, crimes in general with bail reform and how we see people continually get out to commit again, commit again, commit again to the point where it's like, okay, how many times do they have to hurt somebody innocent before we're like maybe they shouldn't get out again? Absolutely. And, you know, I like, I, I believe in compassion and I like I believe in trying

to give people the opportunity to change but no one changes who doesn't want to change and like you should like I don't know what needs to be in place like that's not my job to know what the bar should be but like

No it's simple though if you if you offend and you're found guilty of a crime against a child that should be one and done we should do our jobs as a parent as adults to make sure that you can never do it again Period. Full stop. You did it once.

You were convicted. You went through the due process. You were found guilty. We're going to make sure that you're never able to do it again. I'm not saying it has to be to the extreme of lethal injection, although, depending on the crime, I'm not opposed to that. What I am saying is at minimum, we're going to put you in a circumstance where you're incapable of hurting anybody else. That's our job. That's our job as adults.

Yeah. Well, we know that you probably have things to do today. you have a family, you have to take care of your kids, and you're very busy. And also probably at this point, you value the quality time that you get with your family in the evenings and on the weekends and things. So we can wrap this up, Derek. Is there anything that you want to say specifically? Or I know there was a few questions you wanted to ask. I got my Wanda Barzie question in. We get the library question in. I know that a lot of people have said that you are inspiring to them, that they have gone through similar things, and it's really helped

them to see your strength. And I mean, there was a question that we had from Patreon, which I'm also curious about, because it's been a long time at this point between then and now. And they wanted to know, is there any current fallout? Like, do you still go through periods of unexplained anger, depression, isolation? How are you managing your mental health now? Is it pretty much something that you have compartmentalized and you're like, hey, I'm not going to let it bleed into today. I'm focused on living now. Or are there still times when it sneaks up on you? I feel like things are pretty well compartmentalized for me. I mean, I do quite a bit of speaking and presentations. And with that, comes a lot of like meeting greets afterwards. And I definitely

have come to recognize, like, I have a bandwidth. Like, I, and once that bandwidth is hit, like, I need to be done. I would say, like, the bandwidth is pretty, I've got a pretty decent one. But also, like, that kind of comes a time. I'm like, okay, I just need to, like, have a few days where no one needs anything from me except my kids, because they're not going to need anything from me that's, like, read this, read this book about being abducted

or, you know, like the things they need from me are like, what's for breakfast? What's for dinner? Like, do you get my book? Did you do this? I can deal with that. So yeah, I definitely find myself like making sure I need to just like

recognize when that bandwidth is done. Like take some time away before coming back in because otherwise, yeah, that's when it, if I don't have that, that's kind of when I start to viral is not the right word, but it starts to, it starts to bleed in a little bit. I become less polite to be around. Yeah.

And if you heard like my inner dialogue, you'd be like, holy cow, she is nasty. Well, I mean, I get it. Derek sees me high under the table sometimes at conventions because I'm socially tapped out. Yeah. She's done. It's true crime. And you have people that come up to you and they tell you their stories because they, a lot of people are interested in true crime who have gone.

through it or family members and things like that. And we meet family members of people who are missing or have been murdered. And when you're an empathetic person, you absorb it, you absorb it, you absorb it. And then there's only so much until you're like, okay, I need to step back. And that goes back to listening to yourself, right? Like you were saying, listen to your instincts. Hey, I've had enough right now and I can't be of any help to anybody if I'm not whole and if I'm not strong. So I need to step back and take some time because you don't want it to bleed in. You kind of have to keep up a certain amount of protection and a certain level of borders. And then if those start to fall, you need to know you just to step back and take care of

yourself. And I think that goes back to listening to yourself. I mean, and that's like, I would say that's true of like media I consume or like when my kids go to bed and my husband's like, oh, I want to watch the show or whatever. Like if he turns on something that's like violent, I'm like, nope, can't do this. Or like, honestly, like even like documentary. Oh, absolutely. So I'm like, well, I can't watch. This is going to be a book night.

You feel free. You watch that. I'm going to sit over here and read my book that has nothing to do with any of these things. Are you just watching Gilmore Girls for the 55th time? I mean, for me, it's the British baking show. But yeah. Oh, yes. All right.

Or like, there was that book where the Crawdads sing. Yeah. Like my friend read it. She's like, oh, you'll love it. She's like, this is my favorite book. And I read it. And she's like, what do you think of it? And I was like, I hated it, actually.

It's sad. I mean, it's well written. Yes, it's sad. Do I feel bad that that guy died? No, I don't feel bad. Am I like happy he died? Sure, I'm happy he died. But it's just not realistic.

How many victims actually turn around and kill their perpetrator? Not very many. And the ones that do, half the time, they're the ones that end up behind bars. Like, how many cases of that have we seen? We've seen that. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Or like, like, when I saw the movie Finding Nemo, I feel like that came out shortly after I was rescued. And, like, I went to see it with, like, a group of friends. And we went and saw it. And everyone was like, oh, it's so cute. It's so cute. I love it. Just keep swimming.

I was like, I hated it. And they're like, why do you hate it? And I was like, kidnapping is not fun. You don't get kidnapped and go to some, like, cool new place, make all these cool new friends and plan and escape like it's a big adventure. I was like, that is not what kidnapping is. And now I know this is like a kid's movie and this is me going off on it,

but I'm just saying like... That's an interesting perspective, actually. Your friends are sitting there like, damn. Yeah, like, can't watch a movie with Elizabeth. Pretty much. Because it's simplifying something that. It's simplifying and kind of making something seem innocent that in reality, if it was really happening and it wasn't a cartoon, would not be simple or innocent. So I've never thought of that perspective and that's very interesting.

I get you can't, I mean, if you tried to like keep everyone's sensitivities in mind, like you couldn't make anything. It would just be a white screen, right? You're always going to upset someone or offend someone. So I guess the moral of the story is just like, be the best you can be, live life the best you can do. Not everyone's going to love you, too. It's better just to be honest. No, I mean, listen, if it was up to us, we could talk to you for five hours. We've been talking about you now for five weeks. So having you here, it's, you know, it was weird the whole time hearing about you, knowing that I had already met you. But we want to be respectful of your time. I will let everybody know. We had a lot of questions come in. We didn't get to all of them. We tried to integrate them. And honestly, Elizabeth, you answered a lot of them without us even asking you. So I think a lot of the questions I'm looking at right now from our. our Patreon members from the YouTube page from Apple Podcasts. We try to get to a lot of them. Can't get to all of them. But if you want, you can go pick up Elizabeth's new book detours. I saw it's available on Amazon right now. It's probably available in bookstores as well.

And she has multiple books. My story. Is there one more? Yeah. My second book was called Where There's Hope. Where There's Hope. So there's three different books you can go to. Where can they follow you, Elizabeth, for what channels you are comfortable sharing? Where would people, if they want to follow you now on your journey? I'm on Instagram. Just Elizabeth Smart Official. My Foundation is on Instagram, Facebook, which is just Elizabeth Smart Foundation, really original. I know. I mean, you can go to Elizabethsmart.com or Elizabethsmartfoundation.org. I recently started a YouTube channel. So we saw. We got the stumbling around blindly.

We got your video from there. When you were going to the campsite. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which was, by the way, just incredible that you were willing to go back there. And the way you talk about it, it's very grounded where I can follow you. But then I think about the context. And I'm like, the fact that she's back there is just incredible, that you're willing to go face that head on. Even though, I mean, it's been years later. A lot of people wouldn't have the strength to do that. Yeah, still. Yeah, it's incredible.

Also, it was a docu-series on Netflix, right? Is it multiple episodes? Just documentary. Just one. Documentary. Kidnapped. Elizabeth Smart on Netflix as well. Very successful.

We appreciate you being here. You didn't have to do that. And I appreciate you coming on and spending some time with us. And we just wish the best for you. anything we can do to help in the future for anything you have going on and your advocacy efforts, you have my number. Reach out. We're there for you. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Have a good night. You too. So we are so grateful to Elizabeth for coming on and talking to us. And Derek said this before we started filming the outro. We could have talked to her for hours and hours.

And I know that everybody had questions. And as Derek said to Elizabeth, I think a lot of those questions were addressed and answered during the conversation with Elizabeth, which I would, you know, I would love to sit down with her, have some time to really dive deeper into the whole psychology and trauma aspect because I think that her perspective could help so many people. But as I said, I do believe that her book, the one that she just came out with December 2025, would be so helpful because there was so many of you in the comments and in the questions who have gone through horrible things and are struggling with that as the passage of

time goes on. And I really do think I read this book. I found it to be incredibly, as she said, a companion to return to it multiple times. So I do think it would be very, very helpful, a comfort and a guide and a compass for many people who have voiced their struggles because it is very very well written. And like I said, her perspective on this is very important and relevant. So check that out. Thank you all so much for being here. Derek. No, thank you to Elizabeth. She didn't have to do this. You could kind of see she was doing it from her home. She's doing a lot of interviews, especially with the Netflix thing. So I appreciate her taking some time to hop on here and speak with us and answer a few of our questions. And again, thank you to all the commenters who love questions. Thank you to our new

Patreon members. The Patreon thing, huge success. We actually sold out of the partner in crime tiers. Give us a couple months to see if we can handle that amount and maybe we'll open it up. Stephanie's already like, can we open it up for a couple more people? And I would love to. I just don't want to aggregate the quality of what we're doing. We want to make sure we treat everybody's request with equal care. So let us just get a grip on it.

And we'll go from there. We're going to do the bonus episode. We're going to have to live this month. So if you're subscribed to Patreon, you're still going to get all of that. But yes, thank you to everybody for the questions. Thank you to Elizabeth. We appreciate you being here. We'll be back next week with a new Crime Weekly news, new Crime Weekly episode.

This case we're going to talk about a little bit more obscure. It's going to be a good one. Yes. We won't spoil it here. So until then, everyone stay safe out there and we'll see you soon. Bye. The Bell Air Direct app includes crash assist, which detects an accident the moment it happens and even offers you emergency assistance at the tap of a button.

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