Crime Weekly - S3 Ep145: Tamla Horsford | A Sleepover Turned Deadly (Part 1)

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

On the night of November 3rd, 2018, a group of women gathered at a quiet home in Forsyth County, Georgia for what was supposed to be a casual birthday sleepover. There was football on TV, drinks flowing, and nothing about the evening seemed out of the ordinary. But by the next morning, one of those women- 40-year-old Tamla Horsford- was dead. Try our coffee! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.comBecome a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeeklyShop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shopYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcastWebsite: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.comInstagram: @CrimeWeeklyPodTwitter: @CrimeWeeklyPodFacebook: @CrimeWeeklyPodADS:1. https://www.ToupsAndCo.com/Crime - Use code CRIME for 25% off your first order!2. https://www.Ladder.fit/CrimeWeekly - Get your 7-Day Free Trial and $10 off your first month today!3. https://www.HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 20% off SITEWIDE today!4. https://www.ThePetsTable.com - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY55 for 55% off your first box and 10% off your next two!

On the night of November 3, 2018, a group of women gathered at a quiet home in Forsyth County, Georgia, for what was supposed to be a casual birthday sleepover. There was football on TV, drinks flowing, and nothing about the evening seemed out of the ordinary. But by the next morning, one of these women, 40-year-old Tomla Horsford, was dead. At first, the explanation seemed simple. Authority said Tomla had fallen from the backyard deck in the early hours of the morning. A tragic accident, open and shut. Case closed before it ever really began.

But almost immediately, questions started to surface. Because when you look closer at that night, the details don't settle. The timeline becomes unclear. The statements don't quite match. People who were all in the same house at the same party start telling different versions of what happened, small inconsistencies turn into bigger ones. What should have been a straightforward investigation begins to unravel into something far more complicated, a case that for many never felt fully explained, and as public pressure mounted,

authorities did something they don't often do, they reopened it, because sometimes the difference between an accident and something else entirely comes down to the details people don't agree on. And in this case, there are a lot of details people can't seem. to agree on. So tonight, we're going back to the beginning, back to that house, back to that party, back to the last night Toml Horstford was seen alive, because if you think you already know what happened, you might want to think again. Hey, everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. All right, Derek, this is a highly requested case. Yeah, you were saying that. I almost covered it on my channel, maybe about a year and a half ago.

And then I kind of just did a cursory look. And I was like, oh, you know, I don't want to be too like, you know, getting into suppositions and theories. But then they released a case file with interviews and all this stuff. And then I started looking into it. And I was like, oh, there is something here. There is a lot here. We need to talk about it and get your notebook ready because there's a lot of people. There's a lot of things.

So we are going to dive into that. It's been highly requested. And like I said, I kind of didn't want to get into that territory because I didn't want to start, you know, a whole. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the Karen Reed thing, how everybody that was in that house suddenly started getting pulled out. And, you know, there's people who think they had more to do with it than they did. And I'm not even against saying they had more to do with it than they did. but there's actually more here to support that there's something maybe going on that we don't know about. So we're going to get into all of that.

I'm excited. But before we dive in, I know we have to make a very important and fun announcement. Yeah, two quick announcements. First off, to what you were just saying, this case, for anybody who watch Breaking Homicide, will know what case I'm talking about. Just from the teaser, without knowing any of the story itself, it has some similarities to a case I covered Cody Joyce, which happened inside a house. There was a party, and I won't spoil it for anybody,

but people in the whole I feel about that case, I think Cody was killed, and I spent a year trying to prove it. And some major ups and downs with that case, including me going to Munhall and holding a press conference and all that. But anyways, it reminds me a little bit of that case, so I'm interested to hear more about it. The two quick announcements. First off, we'll start with a smaller one, criminal coffee.

We haven't talked about criminal coffee in a while. Anybody who doesn't know at this point, we have a coffee company together where we donate a portion of the proceeds to solve in cases. We're working on a couple cases right now that we may be funding soon. We're trying to get the approval for that. But in the meantime, Stephanie just recently mentioned on her channel, what we've been doing to supplement our growth and our whole, I guess I would say, our mission, is to start funding or at least sponsoring or paying for different organizations. that are also trying to solve cases or help victims of crime. So we've recently donated to places like Higher Hope, Season of Justice. There's also been a few others.

They're all mentioned on the Criminal Coffee website. So if you're someone who has purchased coffee in the past, then you have contributed to those causes as well. I strongly recommend you go check them out. But with Criminal Coffee right now, we're having a massive sale on decaf k cups. We know there's been people that have questioned, you know, whether it's something they would like.

If they're going to like the taste, do they, do the sense? a difference when they have it. If you want to try it, now is the time to do so. We're doing a massive deal on decaf K cups. So if you want to, if you've been ever thinking about trying decaf, now would be the time to check it out. I think they're going for like $10 a box, which is crazy.

We're basically losing money on every box, but our loss is your gain. Now for the bigger announcement, which is way more important, the CrimeCon giveaway winner. We've been talking about CrimeCon, how great of an event it is. The passes can be expensive, so we wanted to help two of events.

you out and we now have our winner of the CrimeCon giveaway. That is Caitlin Baker. Congratulations, Kayland. Congratulations, Kalan. You will be at CrimeCon. We look forward to meeting you and a guest, whoever that is. We may do another giveaway before this is up, but I wouldn't wait for it. I talk to the CrimeCon people. The passes are selling out fast. So if you have any interest in going, now is the time to do so. You can go over to CrimeCon.com. Use our code Crime Weekly. You'll get 10% off. We would love to see you there. We're looking forward to meeting everybody. We're going to have some cool merch. We always have our exclusive Crime Weekly CrimeCon merch. I've already seen some samples of the Vegas T-shirt. Ashley knocked it out of the park again. It's absolutely fire. I can't wait to get mine.

I can't wait to see it. Yep. And we look forward to seeing you all there. I hope you guys can make it. That's all I have. Let's get into the episode. I'm ready. You got me all fired up now. I'm fired up. I was actually excited. Not that I'm not excited to film Crime Weekly with you every week. No. I didn't mean to make it sound like that. But Monday. We film on Mondays and they're tough. Mondays are tough. Transitioning. I always have a hard time transitioning from the week to the weekend and then again from the weekend to the week. And fairness, too, like, let's just call it what it is. We see each other or talk to each other every single day. Like yesterday, it was a Sunday. Stephanie and I were on our home computers with our cameras doing our Patreon videos. So anybody who's a partner in crime member gets a personalized video each month.

we were banging out all of those yesterday. So for you guys, you're only seeing us now, but we're doing something every day. Yeah, but so for this case, when I started looking into it and then researching and writing for Crime Weekly, you know how I get. I get hyper fixated.

Oh, yeah. I'm all excited about it when we did our live with our patrons last week at the end of last week. I was like, can I tell them what it is? Because it's all I can think about. So I was excited to sit down and talk to you about it and deliver this to everyone listening because I can't wait to hear you.

hear what everyone thinks and I'm just very excited. So let's get started. Tomla Horsford, known as Tam. So everybody called Tomla Tam. And you'll hear this, the people at the party, her husband, her family, her friends. They all called her Tam. She was born on October 10th, 1978 in Kingston, St. Vincent and the Grenadines. So she's a Caribbean girl. She moved with her family to the Bronx in 1989 and she met her husband Leander or Lee. His name's Leander, but everybody calls him Lee. They met in Florida. Now at the time they met, Lee already had a young daughter from a previous relationship, but he said that Tam raised his daughter like she was her own and the daughter called Tam mom. So Tam and Lee would go on to have five sons together, which is crazy. Five sons.

that's so she was Tomla Horstford was 40 when she died in 2018 she had five sons with Lee I couldn't even get one I know but could you imagine I love you telling Lee and Peyton

could you imagine just having a kid and it's a boy and then another kid and it's a boy and then another kid it's a boy and another kid it's a boy I honestly thought that was what was going to happen to me I had two girls and I'm like you know what I'm done because I'm going to be that person and I love my girls they're my best friends but I was like I know just

it's not looking good for me. I'm going to have five girls, so I'm stopping. I just can't imagine what a household with five young boys in it would sound like and be like. It would be absolute chaos. Four more, and you got a baseball team. Well, they were all into sports and very active kids. There's Jaden, Payton, Gavin, Braden, and Mason. So all together, this family of two parents and six kids, they moved to Coming, Georgia. Now, coming is a small city. It's about 40 miles north of it. Atlanta, and it's known for its new housing developments, good schools, family-oriented communities. Forsyth County, though, where coming is located, it does have a darker racial history.

And I actually knew about this. So as soon as I saw Forsouth County, I was like, wait, because for Halloween this past year, I covered, I did a video called Lakes of the Damned, and one of the Lakes of the Damned I talked about was Lake Lanier. and you learned, I learned, I was going to say you learned, but we all learned because I delivered the video. We learned about Forsyth County and it's very, very bad racial past. We're talking to South, so, you know, there's a lot down there that we wish didn't happen, but some of those things are still going on to this day as far as the, I guess, the thought process and the beliefs. Yeah, so this actually, it started in 1912 and then this, this,

It didn't start in 1912, but it all went down in 1912. Following racial tensions and violence, black residents were forcibly driven out of the county and for decades, a long time. Forsyth County, it remained in almost entirely white area until the late 20th century when diversity slowly began to increase. But I looked into it. Even today, Forsyth County has only about 11 to 13,000 black residents, which is only roughly 4 to 5% of the population. And yeah, there's so much more to Forsyth County. And if you want to check out that video, I go deep into the history. They basically chased the black residents out with violence.

And then they took over their homes, their businesses, their possessions, and they didn't let anybody come back. And it took a really long time for that to sort of go away. And some people would say it never really did. So when Tam was invited to attend a party at the home of 44-year-old. Jean Myers, a lady's only sleepover party, it wasn't necessarily odd that she was going to be the only black woman there. Because remember, like I said, coming in Forsyth County in general, they don't have a huge black population. Now, Jean's kids played football with some of Tam's

sons. I met her in August, September, our boys put this, was the first year. Our kids played football together. Of 2018, so the year, just a couple months before. Okay. How much time had you spent with her? Like, it was it just at, like, football games and stuff? Or had you spent time outside of that with her? Every Saturday for football games during the season. And then the only other time I'd spent with her was the weekend before. She had come to my house to carve pumpkins with her youngest children. Prior to that, though, Saturdays during football. So it was just during the football game.

It wasn't like you guys were hanging out, spending time together. No, I was just getting to nowhere. Okay, so you heard that was Jean, by the way, talking, and you heard her mention that really the first time she'd hung out with Tam one-on-one outside of just seeing her at the football games and stuff was the previous weekend when they had a Halloween party, basically, and they carved pumpkins. there. And some of the other women who are going to be at sleepover were also at that pumpkin carving Halloween party. But this party was the first time that Tam had been to Jean's house

located at 4550 Woodlet Court in coming. And then the following weekend, Jean had another party at her home. This party was supposed to be for Jean's birthday and the person organizing it was 40-year-old Stacy Smith, another football mom who knew both Jean and Tam. And helping Stacey planned the party was 39-year-old Nicole Larson, who had never met Tam before. Did you ask that people stay if they were drinking, or was that kind of Stacey Nicole's plan? Well, they said, let's just make it a all-moms slumber party, so then nobody drinks and drives. And we didn't want to have to really do makeup and dress up. Okay, so remember, this is supposed to be an all-ladies slumber party, and it's for

Jean's birthday and she's telling the police, well, she's telling at this point she's talking to the GBI. So you know what the GBI is, right? Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Yeah, it's like the FBI, but just for Georgia, right? Yes, it's more of a local agency, a state agency. It doesn't have the same federal jurisdictions that the FBI has. But they're considered probably the top law enforcement in Georgia. In Georgia. Correct. Correct. So she's talking to the GBI and she's saying, I didn't plan this party. You know, my friends planned it for me. And, Basically, Jean says, I just didn't really want to go out anywhere. We didn't want to do makeup.

So we thought we would do this. And also people were going to be drinking. So we didn't want anybody to drive home. And that's why we made it a sleepover. Now, this is interesting, though, because according to Jean, she didn't have anything to do with planning the party. She said she knew there was going to be a party. But as to the way everything went down, such as who was invited, she didn't have anything to do with that. However, on November 4th, 2018, when Jean, Jean,

talked to the police, and this would be the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office, the initial responding police force. When she talked to them, after Tom LaHorseford was found out in her backyard, she said something different. The police report reads, quote, she stated that she wanted to have a birthday dinner with friends, but did not want the hassle of going out. She stated that she came up with the idea of inviting some girlfriends over for a pajama party, end quote. So like I said, The interview you just heard from Jean is happening a year and a half after November 4th, 2018. That's with the GBI. The statement she gave on November 4th, 2018, was to the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office.

And out of the roughly eight other women invited to this party, Tam only knew a few, and she did not know any of them that well. Jean also said that she wanted to watch football. And she was actually referring to the LSU versus Alabama game that was playing on the night of November 3, 2018. I looked it up. This game started at 8 p.m. Now, yeah. That would be around the time it starts. They're not going to start them any earlier than that during the week. I honestly have a question about that, by the way. So have you watched these, because this is college football, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes, it is. All right. So you've watched these college football games, right?

Yeah, once or twice. And they start probably around 8 p.m. When does half time happen? Well, it's halfway through the game. Is it? How long does a game take, though? Well, the game will. The game will, start at eight, but it doesn't normally start at eight. Like usually the television broadcast will start at eight. So the game's going to start roughly maybe 10 or 15 minutes after that, depending on timeouts and what happens in the game. I could be wrong, a college football. Correct me in the comments. I'm probably wrong. I'm thinking maybe basketball, but it's about 30 minutes, 40 minutes after the game starts, maybe 50, depending on timeouts and stuff. That's when halftime would be around. That's half time, yeah. Okay. But it's all predicated on like the game flow.

like some halftimes are faster because there's no real stoppage in time for the game and it gets there quicker. Okay, so half time, depending on you said timeouts and things, you're talking 30 to 40 minutes into the game. Yeah, just the flow of the game, sometimes there's not a lot of clock stoppage, but relatively it's going to be about 45 minutes per half. See, that sounds like it goes so fast, but to me, every time I watch a football game, it feels like it takes hours.

I don't know. The game is about, when you sit down for a football game, it's about a two-hour experience with halftime. So that does make sense, 45 minutes per half and then a 20 minute halftime. Okay. Well, it feels like it takes hours. It's torture. But I'm not a football fan.

So next we're going to hear from Tam's husband Lee. And he's going to tell us on his end what happened the night of the party. That day was just like any other day. I was in the back, working in the yard, building a bonfire for the kids so that we could roast Marshmallows Night. She was helping, you know, she was in the kitchen cooking because she knew that she was going to go out. She had told me that John's had a birthday party and she was having a sleepover because they didn't want anybody driving and everybody could, you know, just hang out and stuff like that. At first, she didn't want to go, but she didn't want them to think that she didn't. didn't like them. And she was always like that. She was always concerned about what other people thought or, I mean, not in that way of like what they thought of her, but to try to, you know, she always tries to please other people. I think that would be the better way to, to word it. So,

you know, she was like, okay, well, I was actually going to go out that night as well. And I decided, no, I'll stay home with the kids because she worked so hard. And it was like, she's a All she ever does is, you know, deal with the kids. We're constantly doing sports where, I mean, cooking, taking care of the house. My job was basically to make the money and to just, you know, I would even, I'd give her my check. All I need is a $100 allowance a week. And she got everything else. She paid the bills.

She did everything. She was like a superwoman. So I was like, okay, well, yeah, you can go. And, you know, I was kind of, you know, didn't want her to go. so kind of like nasty about it. Well, yeah, go ahead, whatever. So I remember when she was walking out the door, she leaned over the couch because I was sitting on the couch.

And she leaned over the couch and gave me a kiss and said, I love you. Thank you for letting me go. And I smiled because we always, even though we were upset with each other, we could always make each other smile. We'd do like silly stuff to each other, you know? All right.

So there's a little bit to unpack there. I think, first off, I admire the candor, right? It's easy to rewrite the history because nobody else can dispute what you're saying. So he could have made himself look a lot better, right? By just saying, yeah, I was all for it. You know, I was happy. She was going out. He's like, no, he's being real. He's like, listen, I was supposed to go out that night too. But instead, I got stuck with the kids. I'm basically translating here. I got stuck with the kids. I was upset about it. I was pouting about it. Yeah. And she knew I was pouting about it. But at the end of the day, you know, she still gave me a

kiss and said goodbye. I think a lot more people out there have experienced similar things to that. Of course. And even him saying like, you know, she thanked me for letting her go. I don't think it was like he let her go. I think it was more like, thanks for being okay with me going. You know, like, thanks for letting me go out while you stay home with the kids. So I know some people might have a problem with the way he framed that. But I actually appreciate the honesty because he's telling you, you can tell in that moment, he's telling you exactly what went down. There's no question to me that he's telling the truth. I think that's actually more common than than not, right? No doubt. Where, especially when you have kids, six kids, you know, and one, one person, you can't go out

together anymore, really, unless you get a babysitter who's willing to stay with six kids and five of them are, you know, rowdy little boys. So yeah, you got to kind of stagger. One person goes out if you want to go out. And the other person left behind is always salty about it. No, no doubt. I have a question for you. I have a question for you because I can speak as a man and the answer is no for me. But my question for you is, you talked about coming.

You talked about where they lived. How far in relation to where they were was the party? Was it like an hour away? No, no, no. They both lived in the same town. Yeah. So for me, and I'm posing this question to you into the majority. of our audience, which is women, like, is this a common thing? Like, you live in the same,

you live in the same county or the same town and you're having sleepovers. Like, I understand not wanting to drive and drink. Like, that's totally cool. But this is 2018. There's definitely Uber. There's definitely the ability for you to get picked up by your husbands. Like, maybe he was frustrated by that as well where he's like, why are we like, you know, grown women having sleepovers? Yeah. So I think a lot of people have an issue with that. Okay. So I'm not going to get canceled for saying this. No. Okay. And, and As you'll see, as we kind of go through this, not all of the women did stay. Some of them did leave.

Some of them did have their husbands come pick them up, et cetera, et cetera. Seems a little odd to me because unless you're planning on partying hard, there's really no reason why you can't get picked up or just, you know, drink in moderation and not get crazy and then drive home yourself. But you'll also hear that, you know, from a lot of the people who were there, Tam showed up later than most people. Okay. Because she was, she made dinner for her husband and the kids before she left.

And then she also made breakfast for them the next morning because she wouldn't be there to prepare breakfast for them. So she made like a breakfast casserole so that they could just pop it in the oven, heat it up, have breakfast. Damn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Lee really wasn't doing much.

He was like, hey, listen, you can go. But everything needs to be done. I'm just calling it. But make sure. This is plug and play. Yeah. He was like, you can go, but I ain't lifting a finger. basically. He's like, I can't make no pancakes. I'm not doing anything. I'm not making breakfast.

Okay. All right. I mean, listen, I personally, a little extreme, but hey, kudos to her. That's their relationship. He even said it, right? Like, I gave her the check. She took care of everything. That was, that's what I did. But a lot of people would also say this is what Tam wanted to do for her family. Yeah, that's fair. She took care of them. She made sure all their needs were met. A lot of people referred to her as super mom. Yeah. She was very invested in their sports as we'll come to find. Okay, so we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. Can we talk about something for a second? Because I feel like we've all gotten really good at paying attention to what we eat, what we drink, what we put into our bodies.

We talk about this stuff all the time. But then we don't always think about what we're putting on our skin. Yeah, and I think a little fun fact, I'd like to think most people at this point know that the largest organ you have is your skin. Well, I think especially for someone like me where I have constant issues with inflammation on my skin. So it really made me start looking closer at my makeup because this is really. what I put on every day. And a lot of it is full of ingredients that I can't even pronounce. I'm not good at pronunciation to begin with, but definitely these I can't pronounce. And it just doesn't feel great putting that on my skin every day. And that's why I checked out tubes and co.

Yeah, and this isn't just about coverage, right? There's a lot more benefits to this. I mean, they have a lot of stuff. So they have skincare. They go stuff for your body. They've got the makeup. I love the skincare too. I've been using their glow serum and their vitamin C serum. and they have tallow. And a lot of other makeup feels heavy. It clogs your pores or you're constantly reapplying it throughout the day. But with tubes and coat, it's the opposite. It's lightweight.

It doesn't cake. It actually lasts. And it's formulated with ingredients like aloe vera. So it feels really good on your skin. And honestly, my skin looks and feels better at the end of the day than it did when I put it on because it's just nourishing and moisturizing and doing great stuff for my skin throughout the day. And this is not something that I've experienced with a lot of makeup. Yeah.

So you don't have to choose between looking good and feeling good. this covers both bases. Exactly. And they have a lot of different shades. They sent me a bunch of, I think they sent me all their shades so that I could check it out, like little testers. And I don't know if you know, you just put it kind of on your wrist. That's where you're going to check for your skin tone in your shade.

I like everything that they have so far that I've tried and I have way more stuff to try. So if you're ready to simplify your routine and actually feel good about what you're putting on your skin, head to tubesandco.com. slash crime. They're offering our listeners 25% off their first order with code crime, C-R-I-M-E. Once again, that's tubes and co-com slash crime and use code crime for 25% off your first order. All right, we're back. So let's go to the initial police report from the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office. And there are two police officers we're going to specifically hear from and talk about throughout this series, Corporal Mike Christian of the Forsythews.

County Sheriff's Office, who was the responding officer. Christian was also originally assigned to the case, but he was replaced midway through, allegedly, because he had been covering up for another Forsyth County Sheriff's Office detective, Greg Cannon, who was accused of drinking on the job. And in September of 2019, Cannon would be fired for being intoxicated on duty. It was discovered that he had operated a county vehicle while under the influence of alcohol to the point where he was a less safe driver, according to the police report. And so it doesn't look like Christian, my Christian, was taken off the case until it was discovered after Cannon's arrest, that Christian had kind of known what was going on. But that's kind of neither here nor there,

but it does kind of show you a culture maybe starting to build. We're also going to hear from someone named Lieutenant Andy Kalin, who oversaw the case and wrote some supplemental reports in the police file. So the police report says on Sunday, November 4th, 20, 18, at approximately 9 a.m., Forsythe County Sheriff's Office Uniform Patrol responded to a medical call at the home of Jean Myers. Now, at that time, Jean lived in this home with her children, but they were with their father that weekend. She also lived there with her aunt, Madeline Lombardi, who wasn't really her aunt. Madeline was Jean's mother's best friend, but Madeline and Jean both refer to her as being Jean's aunt throughout their police investigation. Living with Jean,

her kids and Madeline was 27-year-old Jose Barrara, Jean's boyfriend who at that time worked as a felony probation officer in Forsyth County. So this is important. First of all, I'm just going to say I'm not trying to be judgmental. Okay. But Jean's 43 years old, 43 or 44. Jose is 27. All right. Okay.

Okay. Okay. And he works for the county. He's a felony probation officer. at the time that this all goes down. So the police report states that 911 had been called after a female had been found unresponsive and cold to the touch in the backyard of the residence. She was seen laying in the backyard by Madeline Lombardi, who then went upstairs to get Jose

and John, and they called 911. Here is that call. 4-5 County 911. Hi, yes. I need an ambulance and a place to my home. What's the address? 4-4-50 Woodlid Court. My name is John Myers, J-E-A-N-E.

Okay, what's going on? We had people over last night when we were drinking. Most of us went to bed, one of them stayed on the balcony. She was drinking, and we just went outside, and she was facing face down in the backyard. It looks like, I'm guessing maybe she fell off the balcony, but she's stiff. Okay, is she breathing? I don't know if she's face down.

Okay. How old is she? At 41. Here, hold on. Hey, this is Jose Pereira. Hey, have y'all checked to see if she's breathing? She's not moving one bit. She's not breathing.

I just try to assess her Tesla. She's completely face down in the yard. She is stiff. Okay. Do you know if she, do you see any blood or anything where she, are you there? I am. Okay. I'm sorry I was outside.

It's okay. I'm not sure I happen to align there for a second. Do you see any blood or anything to where, from where she fell? I don't know if I should move her over. I mean, she completely says down. Okay. I mean, can you just check and see she's breathing? If she's not breathing and you know she's gone, then just leave her where she's at.

where she's at if she, okay. One minute. I'm completely not sure. Okay, and that's the only blood that you would see? That's what I can see without moving her over. I haven't seen her face. Do you know if she, do you know if she was suicidal at all? I have no clue.

I've met her one other time. You know, like my girlfriend said, people were over last night. It's just, we were, she was her birthday party, we're not the woman that we believe to be deceased, but my girlfriend's birthday party, instead of having everybody go out, she had everyone stay on. And she was the last one I saw before everybody, I mean, everybody was typically put off the bed. She was the last one in the kitchen. She was just thinking, either waiting around to a ride or waiting until the morning. Okay. How far is the, um, where she would have fell from, how far is the deck from the ground?

Um, I would probably say, uh, maybe 20 feet. Okay. You know, 20 feet from where your feet would be on the railing. The railing itself is maybe three and a half, four feet. Okay. And what is her name? Uh, I know her name, we call her Pam. I'm assuming that's short for Tammy or Tamara.

Was she there with anyone else? Your name is Tam, H-O-R-S-F-O-R-S-F-O-R-D. So the block two now. I don't believe anybody was. My girlfriend has cameras here on the back deck that we can check. Okay. That I think would have caught the incident if she fell from here. Again, I don't know.

It's hard to say she fell from the backer if she was already downstairs. She was the only smoker here. I'm sorry. Okay, I'm so sorry about that. So you think she's just popping out smoking? Yes, she was the only smoker. I mean, I'm on the back deck right now and, you know, cigarette a lighter type of thing her out here.

Okay. I'm just trying to see where I felt on a risk money came from. Okay. All right. How are all the people that were there last night, are they still at your house? Okay. There are four people that were here last night that are no longer there. Okay.

And they just slept this morning or they leave last night? Do you know roughly what time? roughly what time we can get in there. We can check. She's got an alarm system that gives the lights when the doors are open on her phone. Okay. But I would, I think the last time that I personally saw Tam was probably about one in the morning before I'd gone upstairs to bed. Okay. And at that point, she was the only one in the kitchen. I know. So what did you take away from that 911 call?

Because I know the case. You don't. Yeah. What stood out to you right away? There's a lot. There's a lot there that you can talk about the obvious things without being redundant because everybody else just heard the call as well. They talked about how far up the balcony was, 20 feet, talked about how many people were

there, how many people left, four people apparently left prior to this call being made to 911. I guess the topical, the big issues that I would address here would be one when this phone call was made, they weren't even sure that she was dead. They had believed she was deceased, but they didn't even check her pulse because that's why the 911 operator said, hey, are you sure? And he's like, well, let me go back out there. So even before making this call, there was an assumption made or they already knew. They didn't believe she was alive. And yet they didn't check her for a pulse or try to render some type of aid prior to calling law enforcement.

So that's a problem. the biggest thing to me when we're talking about what may have transpired here is that Jose mentioned he was the last person to see Tam right so he's saying when I went up to bed at approximately 1 a.m. Tam was in the kitchen everyone else was kind of off to bed so that does create a window where you do wonder what what happened between Jose and Tam this is a natural question you're going to ask because he's admitting that he was with her alone he was the last person to see her so that's one thing. But then also another thing that I thought was important is that they have an alarm system and allegedly they have cameras.

So knowing that, we're going to be able to corroborate or disprove a lot of the assumptions that are being made on the phone regarding her smoking on the balcony and potentially falling over. Anything I missed? Yeah. So there's also an assumption made that she fell off the balcony, right? Well, that's what I'm saying right now. That he's saying she fell off the balcony while smoking. Yeah. But then he went on to say that there were cameras.

So that's something we're going to be able to check out pretty quickly. And as far as Jose, yes, he did kind of make it seem like when I went up to bed, she was the only one in the kitchen and everybody else had kind of gone to bed. Everyone had gone to bed. That's what he had one a. Yeah, he makes it seem like he's going to bed and it's just him and Tam. Are you able to tell me or tell the audience the kitchen, right? Because we don't have a map of the house.

Is the kitchen on the first floor or is it on the same floor as the balcony? The kitchen's on the same floor as the balcony. Okay, so he could have saw her in the kitchen, went to bed, and then, but didn't he say that before I went up to bed? I might have just added that in. I might have missed that. I mean, it's not, what he's saying isn't even really accurate at this point. Okay, okay. Well, I think those are the main takeaways.

I know other people are going to say he's super like cool, cool, calm collected. That could be for a variety of reasons. He's definitely in the justice field. So this is, you know, he's a probation. You said a probation or parole. felony probation officer, yeah. So he's dealt with, you know, he deals with this type of stuff. maybe not exactly like this, but there's a certain demeanor associated with that line of work.

So his temperament doesn't throw me off too much at the beginning. If anything, if we're just going to go down this, you know, this alley here, if he's involved with it, he might have did the opposite. It made it seem like it was a big shock and surprised him. His demeanor, to some, may come off as suspicious, but I think it makes it at least that part of it a little more authentic. But who knows, I don't want to look too much into one phone call. I thought Jean was pretty calm and cool as well.

Yeah, yeah. I think overall they seem pretty calm about the situation considering what they just found. Yeah. But my biggest thing with that is like nobody knew for sure that she was dead. It was just an assumption. And it's like matter of fact to call the police like, yeah, you know, we got a dead body in the backyard.

Got to have someone come over here. But those are my big takeaways. I love the idea that potentially we have cameras and alarm system. But I have a feeling you're going to tell me something about these cameras and alarm system because if they were up and running, I don't know why we're covering this story right now. I don't even know if there's a conclusion to this story. Yeah, I'm definitely going to tell you some stuff about that. Okay, okay, okay, cool. Let's go back to the police report. So the 911 call happened at 8.59 a.m. The first officer on the scene was Corporal Miller at 907

a.m. He then spoke to Jean, who told him the night before she'd hosted a birthday party for herself at her residence. She had invited her aunt, Madeline Lombardi, Nicole Lawson, Marcy. Hardin, Sarah Cochranem, Stacey Smith, Michael Palarino, Paula Seals, Thomas Smith, Jennifer Morrell, Jose Barrara, and Bridget Fuller. So what do you see already? Remember, we've heard a million times. It's supposed to be a girls only sleepover. Yeah, a lot of guys there.

There's some guys here. As you're reading the list, I'm like, wait a second. That doesn't track, so that's odd. And I mean, there's a lot that can be unpacked there as well. Like, I mean, listen, I don't like to disrespect the dead, but I mean, was this something that Tam was aware of? She was not aware of it. Okay. Okay.

That's already been. That we can cancel that one then. So for context, even though this was supposed to be a girl's only party, Jose was present. He's John's boyfriend. He lives there. Okay. That makes sense. Makes sense.

Along with Tom Smith, who is the husband of Stacy Smith. And at some point, it's still a little iffy about when this happened. At some point, this guy, Michael Palerino. who was Jennifer Morel's boyfriend or husband. Now, according to Michael, he was never at the party. He dropped Jennifer off the night of the party and picked her up the next morning. Here is his very brief interview with the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office. Monday, November 19th, it's approximately 505 hours.

We're here with Michael Palerna. Palerino. All right. I know from reading your statement, the notes that you were essentially the taxi driver going to pick Jennifer up the next morning and dropped her off the night before. Correct. Were you ever at the party?

Do you have any sort of firsthand knowledge about what happened there? No. I just, that evening just dropped her off like an Uber driver in the driveway and left. Do you remember approximately what time that was? Probably around seven-ish. Okay. And you went to? you pick her up the next morning. Correct. What time did she reach out to you? Do you know?

Boy, I wasn't, she texted me 8, 8.30, something like that. Okay. Just that she was up and, you know, and then we decided that since that's such a tough, be a text, it was just a, no sense trying to get an Uber and waiting an hour. Right. You know, I'll just come and pick you up and, right. Macy was, our daughter was fine just to stay here for, you know, 30 minutes or so. Sure. Had you ever met Tam before? No. Never met.

Aware of her after we found out who it was. She was the woman with the bullhorn, but no, I never spoke to her. No. All right. Or her husband. I don't know any of them. All right. I think that's probably it for us.

And so in this case, we'll go ahead in the interview. That was brief. I'm surprised that it took 15 days to have that interview because we're talking November 3rd, right? November 19th, they did it, yeah. In November, okay, so 16 days. That's, that's, hmm, okay. Maybe there was, maybe there was some connections where his attorney might have been present when he gave that interview as well. Maybe they had to sit up that.

That does happen sometimes, but that's a long time to over two weeks to have the interview of this, this death. That's, that's interesting. Especially because Jean gave his name as somebody who had been invited to the party. Yeah. Right? Which why would she do that if he wasn't invited to the party? I don't know. It does align with the timeline because he said that you received that text around 830.

And I believe you said the 911 call came in around 859. So that would align where everyone's starting to wake up and, hey, I'm here. I'm awake. And maybe that's when Tam was discovered. Yeah. So, I mean, but technically that would mean that Bridget had. walked into the main area of the home where there's windows looking on the backyard, and she had left and did not see Tam's body at all.

Yeah. Yeah. Now, I want to once again go back to what Michael said during that interview. He referred to Tam as the woman with the bullhorn. And here's Tam's husband Lee to explain that context. She didn't really know them that well. She just knew them from the football field. And even at the football field, you know, I mean, me and her were always running up and down the field,

cheering on the kids. So it's not like we're sitting down talking with people. I mean, we all communicate. Obviously, our kids are all on the team. But, you know, we were constantly up and down the field. I'm running down. She would have her bullhorn out there, you know. Favorite thing was can't stop greatness, you know.

She would always, that was her. favorite line on the on the bullhorn because anytime the refs would make a bad call and then we'd answer back and then we'd answer back she'd say she can't stop greatness okay so uh it i think it's funny and people have pointed out that michael refer to tam as the woman with the bullhorn yeah kind of like it's annoying right well i'll be listen again i'm always honest with you guys you are as well that would be annoying to me and I have two kids that I'd be annoyed, but it doesn't, you know, but that's, I'm not faulting him for saying that because if anyone's ever experienced that out of the game, it can be pretty annoying. It can be pretty annoying. So everyone seems to agree that the party started at 7 p.m. But not everyone got there at 7 p.m. And most people agree that Tam showed up later than the rest of the people. So let's just go by what the police report says for now. Jean Meyer said people started arriving around 7 p.m. She said that Tomluck,

got there at 8 p.m. And then when Tomlitt got there, the girls had already been drinking. And then Tom and Jose had gone downstairs in the basement to watch the football game. So then Tam showed up with a bottle of tequila. She took a shot of fireball when she got there. And then she drank her tequila mixed with Mountain Dew or water. Now Lee says his wife drank her tequila straight. He said, listen, we're both from the islands. Tam could handle her liquor. And she wouldn't be mixing tequila with Mountain Dew. She didn't even drink Mountain Dew. Now, according to Jeanne, Tam was going through that tequila bottle pretty quickly, and when the police collected it the next morning on November 4th, the bottle was approximately one-eighth of the way full. Nobody ever really says if it was full when she got there, though.

Yeah, it could have been something. Well, this would be something that maybe you're going to. Well, yeah, the police should ask. It's something you could ask Lee. It's also something that you could confirm by previous receipts, right? If she just purchased that bottle that night, you could see where she bought it from. if she actually bought it on that occasion, although I'm not a big drinker,

and I got bottles at my house that have been there for months. And so if I go somewhere and I'm drinking my own stuff, I'm a Jameson guy, I'll bring my own bottle, and I'll drink a couple swigs out of that, and that's it for me. So if we are to assume that this bottle was full, just for one, you know, on one side here,

that would be a lot of tequila, but then I would ask the question, how do we know she was the only one drinking from it? We just said that she was downstairs with Jose, they could have been going shot for shot. They could have been mixing drinks. We don't know. Lee can assume, based on previous behavior,

it doesn't mean that Tam didn't deviate from that that night, which is not a bad thing. It's just, hey, there's company here. I'm going to share my liquor that I brought. I think that's a common thing. Yeah, maybe they didn't have tequila there because it sounds like she took a shot of fireball when she got there. So maybe somebody else was like, oh, and you'll hear there was one woman at this party

that was incredibly intoxicated. Yeah. It wouldn't be crazy for her to bring a bottle and say, does anybody else want some? Or just it's on the counter and somebody pours out of it. It's a swig. Yeah, we don't know. All right.

So at one point, Tomla called her husband Lee on FaceTime. And according to Lee, this was around 10.30 p.m. So she left. And then she called me, I don't know, around 1030 FaceTime. And, you know, the girls were there. And the other girls were on the couch. And she was happy, you know. She was just smiling.

She said, say hi to the girls, babe. And I was like, hi, girls. And so, you know, we had just a little short conversation. Wasn't really about much just asked her. She's having fun. She said, yeah, it's a good time. Everything, everybody's having fun. And I guess they were going to play a game in a little bit and cards of humanity or something like that.

So me and her ended up getting off the phone. and that was the last time I talked to her, but she was happy and she was smiling. Okay, so we're back from Lee talking about the FaceTime call between himself and Tamla. That happened around 10.30 p.m. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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for every workout. No thinking. Everything is planned for you. So if you have an iPhone, head to ladder.com.com slash crime weekly and take a quiz to find your perfect ladder plan today. You can use our link and get a free seven-day trial with no credit card and $10 off your first month if you decide to join. This is a great deal. No better time than now. Check it out. Head over to ladder.com slash crime weekly on your iPhone. You will not regret it. Okay, so around midnight, everyone including Jose and Tom sat around the table in the living room and they played cards against humanity for about an hour. Now, according to Tomla's phone records, she also facetimed with her daughter at 12.32 a.m. After the game, everyone started cleaning up and getting ready to go to bed.

But according to Jean in the police report, Tam was still social and wanting to chat. And Jean said that Tam wanted people to stay up. So a few party guests did leave before people went to bed. Around 10.30 p.m., Nicole and Sarah left because of child care issues. That's what the police report says. Once everything was cleaned up, people began to go to bed for the night in different bedrooms upstairs that belonged to Jean's kids. Jean said she and Jose were in the process of going to bed and they were saying good night to Tam when Tam told them that she was going outside to smoke and she would be back inside in a few minutes. Now, according to Jean and Jose, because you heard it in the 911 call, Tam was the only smoker at the party that night and she had gone outside several times throughout the night to smoke.

Jose also spoke to the police and told them that he and Tom were the only men there that night. They'd been watching the football game in the basement until they came upstairs at halftime. They found food and they never went back to the basement. He said he and Jean went to bed around 1.30 a.m. Tomlowe was still awake. She was going out for a cigarette and she told him she would either sleep in one of the kids' rooms or on the sofa in the living room. At 147 a.m., Bridget Fuller left. Her boyfriend picked her up. She was technically the last person to see Tomla alive, and she said that Tam was eating a bowl of gumbo, she was going to smoke a cigarette, and then go to sleep.

Jean did have a security system that sent notifications to her phone, detailing which doors in the house were opened or secured along with timestamps. So the police noted that the door leading to the back porch had been opened at 149 a.m. It was closed at 150 a.m. it was reopened at 157 a.m. but then it was never closed. Jean said it was slightly open the following morning when they found Toml's body. At 4.10 a.m., Marcy left to go to work. The next person to leave was Paula at 7.45 a.m.

And then Tom and Stacy left at 8.30 a.m. Now, we did hear Jose Barrera mentioned in the 911 call that Jean had security cameras installed that pointed at the backyard. So like you said, that should be able to. clear everything up for us. But as it turns out, the batteries in that camera were dead and the cameras did not record anything that night. Yeah. Here's the thing. I have to, I don't want to be a hypocrite on Crime Weekly because I was talk about cameras. And I just recently had an incident at one of my rental properties where we had some vandalism. I have cameras. And I hadn't

check the cameras in a while and unfortunately there was some construction over there and the construction worker unplugged the DVR. I didn't know it. So I told law enforcement, hey, I have video of this so we're going to be good to go. And I had like preemptively said that and then I go back and check and the DVR is unplugged. So it's unfortunate. The thing about the batteries being, the cameras being off here is you'd want to know when they went off. So this is again, even though there's no camera footage, which would help solve this case, you would be able to determine how long the cameras went off. So for example, if these cameras had just been unplugged or the batteries had been removed, an hour before this incident occurred, that's a red flag.

The absence of evidence is evidence, right? But if this camera had been down and they didn't know it for weeks, then I could see that this is an honest explanation. So that will be important how long the cameras had been down, how long the batteries had been dead. Basically, from what we've heard, far. Everyone was drinking and having a good time. There's a lot. You're going over a lot here. I'm trying to keep up. I hope all you guys can. Can you just refresh us on the window in which Tam was last seen alive? Is it around 12.31 a.m. Is that safe to say? No. So at 147 a.m. Bridget Fuller left. Her boyfriend picked her up. She's the last person to see Tam alive. And that would be after Jose. And we're going to hear from her. Trust me. She claims.

that when she last saw Tam alive, Tam was eating a bowl of gumbo, and then she was going to go smoke a cigarette and then go to sleep. So 147. And then the back porch door opened at 149 and it was closed at 150. Reopened at 157, never closed again. Okay. Okay. Okay. Which if she went out to smoke a cigarette at that time and fell off the balcony, how did the door get reopened? And that door is the door leading to the balcony. Yes. Okay. So 149, just because I think this is super important, 149 to what is it? It was open at 149, closed at 150. Yep, gotcha. Reopened at 157 and then never closed. So like you went outside, had a cigarette, and then about five, six minutes later, you open the door to go back inside, but it doesn't get closed again. Right. Okay. So you 149, you open the door, you go out. It's closed again

at 150, but you're saying that was closed behind you. Close behind her, yes. So 149 to 150, doors opened and then closed behind you, you're on the porch, and then 157, the door opens again for you to go back inside, but she doesn't close it behind her. I get where you're going with here. Okay. Or, or that door was opened while she was still on the porch by someone else and never closed behind them. That could be, right? So I just want to make sure that that's why there's a lot of times and a lot of people being thrown around in this case, and it's easy to get confused. So if I'm redundant throughout this investigation as we're talking about it, my apologies, but I want to make sure I got it right, because that 157 doesn't necessarily represent Tam going back inside.

It could be someone else coming on the porch. But here's the thing. If you went outside to smoke a cigarette and at that point, you fell off the balcony and died, how are you opening the door at 157 to go back inside? No, I agree. That's why I'm saying it would make more sense that someone else came outside and didn't shut the door behind them. It would make more sense that someone came outside, didn't shut the door behind them,

because they knew there was a security system that was tracking when that door was open and closed. And if you're trying to say she fell off the balcony when nobody else was out there, then you'd have to explain how the door got reopened and closed behind her, right? Yeah. Yeah. You would expect if it was an accident, 149, 150, you get the activity and then there's no other activity. Yeah. Yes. I mean, I would say there would be no other activity after that 150 a.m. time when the door closed. Yeah. It'd be, she'd be out on the porch and there would be no 157.

So basically, we've heard so far, everyone's drinking, everyone's having a. good time. Everyone went to bed. Some people left. Tam was the last person awake. Anecdotally, that's what the police report says, that Tam was anecdotally the last person awake. And that's because they don't have proof of that. It's just from what the people there are saying. Yeah. Bridget says she saw her 147, right, eating gumbo. And then there is, she's right near the door to this balcony. So that on the surface, it would make sense. Well, when Bridget saw Tam last, she wasn't right near the door to the balcony, but we'll get there. Okay. So she was in the kitchen, right?

I still don't. We still need to lay on the house. No, she walked Bridget to the door. We're going to get there. Hold on. Okay, okay, okay. All right. So the next morning, the homeowners call 911.

They say, Tam's dad in the backyard. Now, before I tell you what the police saw when they arrived, let me describe the house to you. Okay, so 44-5. Here we go. Yeah, here we go. And you have some pictures I sent you. Yep, I'm looking at them. So 44-50 Woodlet Court, it's a pretty nice house.

It's a big house, six bedrooms, five bathrooms. There's a finished basement. That's where Aunt Madeline slept. there's a main floor and then an upstairs. So the main floor is where the living room, the kitchen would be, and then how that balcony goes out the back. There's also an attached garage, a nice backyard, surrounded by a six-foot privacy fence.

Now, at the back of the house, there's a large patio with a covered area that's underneath it. So there's also a set of stairs leading up to the main level balcony that has another door to get into the house. Now, from the top of the balcony railing to the ground floor, It was measured by the police 14 feet 10 and a half inches. The top of the railing to the deck was approximately 3 feet 1 inch and the rail width was approximately 5 inches across.

The police report states, quote, Tomla was found lying face down in the backyard. She was laying almost immediately at the base of an elevated back porch. Tomla's right wrist was dislocated as if she had tried to brace herself from a fall. Additionally, there were two defects on Tomla's. shins, which corresponded with a metal landscape, which was part of the yard and was located near her feet. This landscape divider was a piece of metal, approximately one eight of an inch thick, which would have made cuts corresponding to what was seen on Tomla's shins. Tomla was lying face down, head downhill from her body. Her right arm was by her side. Her left arm was somewhat out

from her body and bent at the elbow. End quote. Okay, so if you're looking at the back of the house, you can see there's like this ground level patio area. That's going to be at the basement level. I almost think that the house is built on like a hill. Okay. If that makes sense. No, that does make sense. So there's a cutout.

If you scroll to the front of the house there, it looks like it's ground level. But what's probably happening is it's built, like you said, on a hill. Yeah. The main level and the second level is above ground. But if you're looking at the house from the side, the basement level, most of it is covered in the front of the house, but as you go to the back of the house, the bottom level, you can actually walk out directly into the backyard. So the house is elevated on that hill. Yeah. So that first level where there's like a ground level patio and there you see a few chairs

there, that's going to walk into the basement. Right. There's stairs. You can go from that lower level patio up to the balcony from the outside. And then the elevated balcony level, which is about 14 feet off the ground, that's going to lead into the main part of the house. which is like the kitchen, the living room, et cetera. Yeah, this is pretty common, too. And sometimes it's done on purpose where you want to have a walkout. It's obviously a design where you can get more money for it, where you have a walkout basement.

So it's more usable space instead of being below ground. So pretty common. But I think that is an important distinction that this balcony that we're looking at here isn't on the second floor where people may be sleeping. This is on the main level where I'm assuming the kitchen would be as well. Like anything like that, that's- Kitchen living room, yeah. That's all on the same floor.

Okay, I'm with you. These photos, 90% of them, we're not going to be able to have in this episode. They're actual crime scene photos from law enforcement where you can see Tomola. So for the sake of YouTube and all that, they're not going to let us show any of this. So you guys definitely want to look at these photos, the ones that we can show. It adds so many layers to this because without it, you're going to be completely lost. There's a lot. Even as an investigator, I'm sitting here like, I got three pages of notes where we're halfway through the episode.

So when they say that Tomla's head was downhill from her body, It basically means she fell face forward as if she had fallen off that balcony. Let's just say that that's how she fell. So far, it does make sense with what I'm seeing and what I'm hearing right now that she could have fallen off the balcony or at minimum, let's just say fell from the balcony. How she fell, what caused it, who was responsible for it? That's a big question mark. But the injuries at this point are consistent with her falling from the, I guess we'd call it the main floor. balcony. So I want to point out a few things about what the police report states. She was found

lying face down. They said her right wrist was dislocated as if she had tried to brace herself from a fall. So remember that part. Okay. Yep. And we can see that in one of the photos. So then the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office CSI specialist, they come and they give their own report. They say, quote, Tomla was located in the backyard in a prone position. She was laying with her head away from the residence and her feet toward the residence. Her left arm was at an approximately 40 degree angle from her body and the forearm and hand were bent further toward her head in the approximately 10 o'clock position. Her right arm was straight behind her with both feet pointing to the right. Toml was clad in a one-piece pajama outfit consisting of a white fleece hooded

outfit with dog paw prints on it and a set of ears affixed to the hood. The outfit was clean with a small dirty spot on the right buttocks of the outfit. End quote. So the report goes on to say that with the permission of Deputy Coroner Bowen, Tomla's body was turned over. Quote, most notable when Tomla was turned over was the fact she had come to rest face down. Her head had not been canted to one side or the other. Tomla's right wrist was fractured or dislocated. There was a large bump where her wrist met her hand as well as a cut over the bump, as if the bone had cut the skin from the inside.

There were matching defects on both of Tomla's shins. these corresponded with a piece of metal landscaping edging, which stood up approximately one inch from the surrounding ground. Other than the broken wrist and cuts on her shins, no obvious signs of injury presented themselves. End quote. So we haven't gotten into the autopsy results yet. Yeah. Give me a moment there. But there's a few things off about this that stood out immediately to me was the CSI person said that Tamla had fallen straight down.

Her head had not been canted to either side, as in she face planted down to the. ground. But the deputy had claimed Tom was wrist was fractured as if she had tried to brace herself from a fall. And I don't understand that. Would someone put their arm out to break their fall but not instinctively move their head to the side? Would they try to break their fall but not move their head and their face away? Because I looked into it and that absolutely would not happen. Somebody who knew they were falling and had the instinct to put their hand out to break the fall would not still face plant into the ground. Yeah. The whole thing is I'm not a biomechanical engineer and I would enlist the help of one if I were working this case. But there's other variables here that I'm trying

to keep in mind as we look at these photos. And that's the fact that regardless of what you believe happened, Tam had been drinking. And that could also inhibit your decision making process, especially in a moment's notice. So to your point, yes, statistically or historically, you would expect the person to exhibit certain behaviors that they're falling. And that's true, but I'm also trying to add in the layer of intoxication, which can slow down your ability to react. So there's a couple things I have going on here. But the one thing you said that I thought was interesting and important is that you're stipulating here that even though Tam was found by law enforcement in this position, she had been turned over. That was not her position when she had came to arrest.

Is that what you're stating? Her body was turned over. once they already made their report. So she was found face down. And then once the coroner got there, they said, hey, can we turn her over? And that's when they did. Yeah. Okay.

So nobody's questioning that at this point, that her body was moved before law enforcement arrived. No, but we are going to question the position of her arms because you can hear both the CSI and the responding deputy said that one of her arms was kind of out away from her body. Yep. But Jose and Jean are going to tell the police that when they found her, Tomlitt was laying face down with both her hands at her sides.

We're going to talk about that. Yeah, we can see that in the photos right here. Okay. So, I mean, I know what you're saying, like you're drunk, so your brains, but if your brain's telling you you're falling, put your arm out to brace your fall, your brain's also probably going to tell you you don't want to fall face down. And I looked this up. For some reason, humans have like a psychological subconscious thing where they always try to protect their faces.

at all times, whether something flying at you or you're flying towards something. They always try to protect their faces. Yeah. But she fell face down, did not. Cantor head to one side or the other. So Tamma's body was sent to the GBI for an autopsy, and Jean showed the police where Tam's overnight bag and purse had been left behind the sofa in the living room. Inside the bag, they found a smaller bag of marijuana, and it was confirmed that Tam had been

smoking weed the night of the party. So at 1105 that morning, Tamla's body was examined for post-mortem changes, and it was noted that rigor and lividity were present. Her body was cold to the touch. There was a substance that was red in color and similar looking to blood found on the cuff of her right sleeve, as well as the shin area of her right pant leg. A small abrasion was found on the interior of her left wrist, and small abrasions were found on her left thumb as well as on the tip of her left index finger. So on November 5th, a detective with the Forsyth County Sheriff's office spoke with Tomla's father, Kurt St. Jor, on the phone. Kurt had a lot of questions about Toml's death, so the detective asked if he wanted to comment and talk. The detective met with Kurt at the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office and wrote in the report, quote,

I answered Kurt's questions in general as best I could with what little information I had at the time. I explained to him that until the reports from the GBI returned, I would not be able to tell him exactly what had happened to his daughter. End quote. Kurt still had questions, so the detective went through pictures of the crime scene with him. But the detective noticed that this seemed to cause Kurt to have even more questions. Kurt stated that Tam's death and the scene were suspicious to him, and the detective told him that this is why Tam's body had been sent to the GBI for autopsy so they could determine the why and how of her death. Quote, I explained to Kurt that based on what we had initially seen,

we had a theory about how Tamla came to rest where she had. I explained it looked like she had tripped on a piece of landscaping edging that had fallen into the place and position she was in. I explained I could not tell him why she had died, but the tripping theory seemed the most plausible at the time. End quote. So this detective's telling Tam's father on November 5th that Tam fell from the ground level tripping over some edging. And that made the most sense. This broke her wrist and I don't see those injuries being from a fall from that distance. So completely disagree with that.

And you don't have to be a biomechanical engineer to say that. I've never seen someone fall from tripping and dislocate their wrists like that. I've seen it on a snowboard. Or just in general, diet. Like, how would you die from that? Well, that's why the autopsy is so important, right? When we talk about lividity specifically, knowing if her body was moved after the fact, especially in the facial area.

But overall, that's going to tell us our cause and manner of death. And that's really important here. because if we find that there was a chemical mixture in her body that could have been lethal in nature, well, then the tripping could have actually just been a reaction to whatever she was experiencing at that moment. But it's still to me, even if that's the case, like even if she had a heart attack in that moment and she just fell, boom, straightforward, I find it hard to believe that she would have been able to brace herself and break her wrist. If she had a heart attack or something of that nature or reaction to what she was taking and consuming, she's not going to put her hands out.

She's going to fall flat on her face, probably have a broken nose, maybe a broken jaw. Like I was saying, I've only seen this type of injury, collarbones, wrists, elbows with like snowboarding incidents. So this is a hard one for me to swallow because she wouldn't have enough acceleration at that point to break her wrist in that manner, in my opinion. Yeah. So basically by November 5th, the police have a working theory. And that theory is that Tomlitt tripped on some landscaping edging, fell face down and died. That's a rough one. I'm not buying that. Let's, you know, let's take a quick break and we'll keep going.

We have, I can see that what we have coming up. We'll take a break. We'll be right back. Okay, I feel like spring is the time when everything gets reset. You know, you're cleaning your house. You're kind of changing up your routine because the weather's getting warmer. And honestly, your sleep should be a part of that too because I have said this before when it comes to Helix. I didn't realize how much my old mattress was affecting me until I switched to a Helix sleep

mattress. Yeah, I can tell you firsthand, I did not have a Helix before we started doing Crime Weekly. And I'm sure you remember, like, I'd be texting you at two, three in the morning and you're like, what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, I always wake up in the middle of the night. It's not by choice. It just happens. And then switching to Helix definitely helped that because now I'm getting some sound sleep. Yeah, I used to wake up all the time too constantly. I'd be too hot. My shoulders would hurt. I'd feel like my arm fell on falling asleep. I just wasn't getting good sleep. And once I switched, it was one of those things where I just notice the difference immediately. I'm sleeping deeper. I'm definitely not waking up as much.

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Helix pillows so she doesn't have to steal mine because every pillow on my bed is a Helix pillow. So check it out 20% off sitewide. Great deal. Thank you so much to Helix for sponsoring today's podcast. Okay, so we're back on November 6th, the same detective who talked to Tomla's father and was like, yeah, we think she tripped on the edging and fell and died. He spoke with Dr. Andrew Kube Miners, the associate medical examiner with the GBI. And the two had a conversation about how Tomla was found. The detective explained his brilliant theory to Dr. Coot Miners, and he was told that this theory would be impossible. Tomla could not have received her injuries from a ground-level fall because aside from the

injuries observed at the scene, Tomla had a broken neck, a subdural hematoma on the right side of her skull, and a torn heart muscle. So the detective then explained to the medical examiner that Tam had been lying in front of a balcony whose deck was approximately 14 feet off the ground, and Dr. Coopiners agreed that a fall from that height could produce the injuries that Tam had. Yeah, 100. I mean, again, doesn't take a rocket scientist that those injuries, broken neck. She didn't trip over landscaping material on the first floor and receive those injuries. No shot. All right. So let's go deeper into the autopsy. Tam had pretty extreme neck injuries.

She had a partial atlanto occipital dislocation. This is sometimes called an internal decapitation type injury where the skull partially separates from the spine. This is usually seen in high-speed car crashes or very significant falls. She also had a fracture of the second cervical vertebrae. So these injuries tell us that her head experienced a violent force relative to the body. She had a subdural hematoma, which is blood leaking into the space between the brain and the tissues covering it, and a subdural hemorrhage. Once again, these are high-impact head injuries where the brain is experiencing significant trauma and movement inside the skull. There was a three-quarter-inch laceration found on the right ventricle of her heart. And this is huge from a forensic perspective because the heart is actually really protected inside of us.

It's very protected inside the chest cavity and it usually takes extreme blunt force to tear it. Tam had abrasions on the right side of her forehead, her left upper eyelid, the bridge of her nose, her right temple and chin. She also had bleeding at the right temple scalp area. Now this is interesting because according to the autopsy, she also had no facial fractures. This is important because it shows that I guess her face did make contact with something because she's got abrasions on her face, but not with enough direct force to break any bones. So this suggests a glancing or sliding impact on her face rather than a direct slam. So she had these severe head and neck injuries.

And according to the police, she fell straight on her face. but she has no facial fractures. So she fell hard enough to do all that damage to her neck and her vertebrates and have all these hematomas on her head, but no breaking bones or fractures on her face. That's odd, right? It is odd. I'm going to play devil's advocate a lot in this episode

because I feel like I have to, for us to cover all our bases. I have had cases like this. There was one out of San Diego that I covered. Rebecca's a howl, but it was her stepson, Max, who had some abrasions. And one of the opinions, or I guess hypothesis on how he received those abrasions but didn't have severe fractures to the front of his face is that in the moment where you go over a railing, right, whether you intended to or not, there's going to be a moment when you're grasping for something and you may be able to grab those railings if we pull back

up that picture again, where as you're going over headfirst, you could grab the railings and actually slide your face or smack your face off. of those railings, those balusters, I should say, not the railing itself, and cause some abrasions as you're going down, where you'd have significant trauma to the neck and the back of the head, not to the face, and yet it still be plausible. So I am not an expert in this area. I'm just offering my opinion based on my experiences, but there's no doubt, there's many people out there way more qualified to talk about this than I am. But I will play devil's advocate just so we're being balanced. But I do agree with you. It looks suspicious. Something on the surface doesn't appear

to be adding up here. Something's not right. Yeah. You just expect it where you're like, okay, she fell over and the things align. There are outliers sometimes where anomalies occur, and that's why I'm talking about it. But just there could have been a moment where she goes over, let's just say accidentally, she loses her balance or whatever, and she attempts to stop herself from going over and in the process kind of grips onto something and bounces off a few things before hitting the ground. Is that highly likely? No.

You'd probably see blood on different places. You would expect to. She had to cut on her wrist or whatever, but, you know, I'm just putting it out there because it's not a physical impossibility. That's all I'm saying. All right. Well, they did obviously a toxicology. Tam's blood alcohol content was 0.238, which is high.

That's high. That's high. Yeah. That's high. She also had THC in her system and Xanax. But interestingly enough, Tam was not prescribed Xanax, and the police didn't find any Xanax in her purse or a bag. Okay.

So the people at the party that night, they all consistently denied giving Tam any Xanax. But there was one person at the party who was prescribed to Xanax. We're going to talk about that later. Trust me. Oh, okay. And then we're talking about a lazapram, right? So basically someone who had a prescription.

for Elazapram, also known as Xanax. Yes, exactly. Okay, okay. So Tamla's cause of death ended up being due to multiple blunt force injuries and her manner of death was listed as accidental. The Emmy's final autopsy report was received by the Forsyth Sheriff's Office on February 6th, 2019. And on February 20th, investigator Callan called Dr. Cootminers telling him that the Forsyth County

Sheriff's Office was closing the case that day. He asked the Emmy if he was comfortable with the following statement, quote, the deceased injuries, along with the investigative findings from the scene, conclude that this death was an accident as a result from a fall consistent with the height of the deck and railing to the ground below. End quote. Dr. Kootminers told Kalin that this was an accurate and appropriate statement in the case, and that day the case was officially closed.

The state of Georgia medical examiner has ruled the death accidental and consistent with a fall. Wednesday for South County Sheriff's Major Joe Perkins announced a GBI-Let autopsy found no signs of foul play. No evidence or injury patterns indicative of an assault. Hosford's father spoke to Atlanta DJ Ryan Cameron's radio show after the sheriff's announcement. Her injuries are not consistent with what they're saying. This is so fishy. I just don't want it to get out of your hand. Her father says a pathologist they hired found injuries on Tamla's body. They believe happened after she was already dead. believe someone may have tossed her body off of the deck. Her wrist was cut.

The bone was broken. Where they said the body was, there was no blood pool. That means she was already dead. Now we're going to get into the nitty-gritty of what actually happened that night and the next morning from the mouths of the people who were there. So on November 9th, 2018, so this is a few days after Tom's body is found, Corporal Mike Christian and Tyler Sexton with the four. County Sheriff's Office interviewed Jose Barrera, and he went through the events of the evening.

He talked about the cards against humanity game, which he referred to as the most collective thing that they all did that night. And then he, along with the others, started cleaning up. He said that he turned on the television in the only bedroom on the main floor for Marcy Hardin and Jennifer Morel, who were going to be sleeping in that room. He said he did this around 1 a.m. He then went down to the basement to get his cell phone charger because he left it down there earlier when he was watching the football game with Tom, and he came back up for bed. Jose was also asked about the conversation that his girlfriend, Jean, had with Tam before going to bed. Remember, Jean told the police when they came that day that Tam was up still.

She was energetic. She still wanted to chat. She was trying to get people to stay up. So you said earlier that you and Jean had talked to Tamela right before going up to bed. I think they had somewhat of a conversation, and that some of the extent of Tamla not wanting to go to sleep or like, you know, let's stay up, whatever. I was not privy to that.

That's just what Jean says that they had a conversation, but I can't verify that at all. Okay. If that happened, it could have been when I was down in the basement, but I never saw it specifically. Okay. When I came up in the basement, Saw Tamley in the kitchen just glancing over and saw that she was there.

Who was she with? I just saw her by herself. Okay. From that, I guess that vantage point from coming up in the basement, I mean, there is that wall there. So I just kind of saw her through here kind of up where the stove would be. But I can't see anything back in the kitchen. And then I just went upstairs. Okay.

So you went to bed then? About what time? Um. Ballpark, Mary, 130. Okay. So it is a small inconsistency, but Jose did tell the responding police officers on November 4th, 2018, that when he and Jean went to bed, they had a conversation with Tamla, and she, quote, told them she was going outside to smoke a cigarette,

and then would either go to sleep in one of the Myers' children's rooms, or would sleep on the sofa, end quote. So the next morning, Jose said he was woken up by Madeline Lombardi, knocking on the door of the bedroom he shared with Jean, And Madeline said, I need Jose. So then Jose and John got clothes on and followed Madeline. So from the time she knocked on the door, woke y'all up until the time, y'all were talking to 911. What's that time frame?

I mean, she's knocking on the door. I need Jose. Okay, shit, I'm worried about one of your friends. I'm kind of like, okay, she went out to room. Got dressed. Got dressed. And John was like, do I name my phone? I said grab it just in case.

We went down. And I mean, I just made my way all the way down. Okay. And where did she take you to? Back deck. Okay. So went out on the back deck. Saw her line there.

Went down a check on her. And then told John. I'm trying to think if she was already on the phone. What did you do when you went to them check on her? kind of trying to get her attention like hey tam like typing on the back or yeah just hand on her back yeah like tam and then there's no response I couldn't I mean and I did I checked on her twice one was that time when I wasn't on the phone 911 and the second time was when I was on the phone 911 they asked me to check

I can't remember if when I was on the phone, 911, is when I kind of grabbed her leg and moved it. And I was just like, like, if she's stiff already or not, but it was good as one of those. What did it feel like? I tried bending her leg at the knee, and it just wasn't bending the way you expected to. Okay.

Did you touch her anywhere else or move anything else? Just lower leg. Just move or move it? Somebody moved your arm. Because you told me previously that both arms were like by her side. Correct. Do we know who moved wrong? I have not a clue. When I was on the phone 9-1-1 and I checked, I'd gone back inside the house and I stayed on the phone with them until Corey Miller got there. I walked him through out on the back deck. You know, obviously showed him what we saw and he told me to stay upstairs like up on the back deck and that was the last time I was. members are. Okay. That's interesting to me. There's a lot there because what that investigator is

describing is, or I guess I should say what Jose is describing is rigormortes, right? At the time when he finds Tam. And that's interesting because I got to refresh my skills here, but from zero to eight hours, you have like early onset rigor mortis where it's not full rigor. And then after eight hours, between eight and 12 hours, you're going to have like full stiffness. Like, I've been there. I've been there at those moments. You can't move that body at all. Whatever position it was in, it's stuck in. And then after 24 hours, it starts to dissipate. So what it sounds like he's describing to me is late in the onset process early, early of the full rigor, which is about eight hours. But if we're to believe that she was still alive at approximately

2 a.m., and she's found at approximately 8.30 a.m. It's only about six hours. So I guess it could be closer to the full rigor, which I guess would align, but it seems a little early and maybe would suggest that she was dead earlier than that. That's the one thing I'd take from it. But it is possible, everybody's different. What was the temperature to that day? Do we know as well? It was cold. Yeah. Okay. That could have also played into a November. Yeah, that could enhance, that could cause a little bit more stiffness a little earlier on. I'm just going to sort of summarize what he said. Yeah. There's a lot there. Yeah. Jose said on November 9th, That's not when he touched Tam, but this is when he's talking to police, November 9th.

He tried to get Tam's attention. He put his hand on her back. He grabbed her leg and moved it, tried bending it at the knee. What he said, it wouldn't move at all, right? That's Rig or Mortis he's describing, yep. Now remember, you said that when they called 911, it was like they didn't even know if she was dead yet. Right. He had said that he had went out there, but didn't really do like a full, a full check of her.

Just touching her knee's not going to tell you if she's alive or dead. I mean, but if you're saying her knee, won't move at all. Her leg won't move at all. You're, I mean, a normal person would be like, hey, this person's probably not alive, right? Yeah. Yeah. So Corporal Mike Christian then reminds Jose on November 9th when he talks to him, hey, when you talk to me on November 4th, you told me that Tamma's arms were straight down by her side, palms up. But remember, when the police arrived, they found Tam's body and her right arm was by her side, but her left arm was away from her body and bent at the elbow. And we can see that in the photos, by the way. The photos that we can see. They're public

photos if you want to go look them up and don't recommend it but if you do you can see the position of her arms and he's like well who moved her arm and Jose's like I have no idea right like I I touched her and I touched her back and then I tried to move her leg and it wouldn't move and then that's the last time I saw her basically now Jose also talked about some things he found that morning so on that same day lieutenant Andy Callan arrived and he went inside to question people and when he went inside he recognized Jose Barrara from being a felony probation agent in Forsyth County. And Barrara told Andy Callan that he had checked for a pulse on Tomla's body and in the process may have moved her arm. Now, this wouldn't come out until years later when the GBI conducted their own investigation.

So Andy Kalin doesn't say this until the GBI questioned him because he's with the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office. The GBI reopens the investigation later. They question Andy. And he's like, oh, yeah, Jose did say that. Then on August 3, 2020, GBI agents went to talk to Jose, and they asked him about this discrepancy. You told me last time that you did not move wrong. Correct. Well, this is just why I wanted to clear this up.

So once you know the precise case file, and it says on Wednesday, November 7th, 2018, I spoke with witness Jose Barrera by telephone about this case. He told me that once in mine, the Cesar was laying face down in the backyard. as I told me that he then proceeded downstairs and shake the left arm of the victim for a pulse, so he indeed had manipulated the left arm of the victim moving in a way from her body into position of observed and it's constant pose. Is that right or wrong? Is it? Well, that's wrong. Okay, so that's wrong.

Yeah. I'm not getting, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not going to say, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We have to, we have to account for this. Yeah. And so, me telling me, you know, that this is saying that, um, You know, you, you, right, that I, there's no way. Do you remember that?

Do you remember that saying that? Who, who? Who? Andy? No, like, I honestly don't remember saying that, like, in the least. Okay, so, I want to cut in here because this audio is very hard to hear. It is. Yeah, I was struggling.

I almost wonder if it was intentional because, out of all of these interviews, that have very clear audio. This one is so tough to make out. And I had to do a lot of manipulation, actually, to make it clear at all. But you can hear the GBI agents and they're like, hey, you told Andy Kalin on November 7th over the phone that you did go out to check for a pulse. And in the process, you did manipulate her arm. Right. And you can hear Jose say, that's bullshit. And he also is like, who did I say that? Andy? I said it to Andy. So he's talking to about. Andy Kalin, who's a police officer, by his first name. Because as we will come to find, Jose and Andy do know each other.

Oh, yeah, clearly. By him calling him Andy, yeah, no doubt. And it seems their relationship may have gone a bit further than just this brief recognition that Andy Kalin had when he walked into the house on November 3rd and saw Jose sitting at the table. And he's like, oh, yeah, I know that guy. He's a felony probation officer. It goes a little bit further than that. And we will get into it.

But let's move on with Jose's early interview with the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office. So remember, this is in November of 2018. We're kind of going back and forth a little bit. But stick with me because what you just heard was from a GBI interview that happened in 2020. Now we're going back to Forsyth County Sheriff's Office interview in November of 2018. Right. So when I initially went out there to see what was going on, there was a loose cigarette and a lighter laying on the back deck. and I think just as OCD as I am, I walked out and it was just kind of in my path from, you know,

the door to the railing where I looked out and I just, I mean, like if I'm coming through this doorway right here, like it would be like a cigarette and a lighter lane about right there. I mean, I walked up, set it on the fire pit, and just kept walking. Okay. So you actually did that before you saw, correct. Pam ordering anything. Oh, yeah. I wouldn't have moved anything if I knew what I was trying to walk up on. Okay. So first we have Jose claiming up and down that he never touched Tam's body, definitely not her arm, right? Then we have him telling Andy Kalin a few days after

Tam's body has found that he did. Yeah. And then when he's confronted with that in 2020, he says that's bullshit. I never said that. I honestly don't remember touching her arm. And now we have him in 2018 saying, oh, well, when I went out on the, the, you know, balcony, before I even saw Tam's body, the first thing I saw was a loose cigarette and a lighter that was sitting on the ground of the balcony and I'm OCD. So I picked it up and I put it on the fire pit, right? So this is when he went outside to see what Madeline was talking about after she came into the room and was like, hey, you got to come outside. So Jose refers to this as the back deck. He's talking about, the balcony, right? So that is the off the main area of the house. And according to those at the

party, this is where Tam would go out onto the balcony deck to smoke. But he also says that he put it on a fire pit. And I can't for the life of me think of why somebody would have a fire pit on a second floor balcony that's covered. But maybe it was like a smaller one. Anyways, he goes out, he finds the cigarettes or the cigarette and the lighter. He puts it on the fire pit. And that's when he sees Tam's body on the ground. So Jose also talked about how Tam face-timed with her daughter that night when they were all together in the living room. And he said it was probably during the cards against humanity game, which makes sense if they started playing at midnight and the game went on for about an hour because we know that the call happened at 1232 a.m. Now, this timing is important because we have also

heard that Nicole Lawson and Sarah Cochranham left the house at 10.30 due to child care issues. And in the same interview, Jose confirms that these two women left at 1030. But here's Nicole's interview on November 9th, 2018. And then around 1030, another, well, probably around 10 o'clock, another, one of our friends showed up. And that's when I started saying my advice to everybody. I had a dog at home I needed to get to. So I left at 1030, talked to another. Who showed up at 10? That was Paula. Paula Seals showed up pretty late. It was somewhere. It was somewhere. around 9.45 or 10. And then, you know, I guess her daughter had a game that night and she couldn't get here before. So I left and talked to another girl that left at the same time I did, Sarah,

on the way home just to make sure she got home okay. And both of us went to bed. But minutes later, in the same interview, Nicole goes on to say this. Did you have any interaction with her during the party and all? Yeah. You know, we all kind of just, hung out together and she was she was really she just had a full of life personality so she was all over the place she was on her phone with her daughter excited about her new grandbaby coming and so we face-timed with her and and then you know she just we just hung out it was nothing nothing short of you know just a boring night in the house well that throws off the face time call right so this is the question that people ask if the face time call with tom was daughter happened at 1232

AM, but Nicole left at 10.30 p.m., how would she have been present for this FaceTime call? Now, I would refer back to the same screenshot to bring some possible context to this question, because you could also see on the screenshot that it shows there were four FaceTime calls between Tam and her daughter the day before. It doesn't show timestamps. It just says yesterday, which would have been the day of November 3rd. Yeah, it would have been the night of the party. Since we don't know what time these calls happened, it's very possible that Tam talked to her daughter at some point that evening before Nicole left. Yes. But those calls could have also all happened before Tam ever got to the party, right?

Because Tam's husband Lee says that his daughter talked to Tam after Tam facetined him around 1030 p.m. But I guess it's possible that another facetime call between Tam and her daughter happened while she was at the party before Nicole left. But that would be a very small window, right? Because if Tam got there, people say different things. Jean said eight, most people don't say eight. Most people say 830, 845. So if it was closer to 845, the Tam got there. And Nicole leaves at 1030.

And we know that Tam's husband Lee said that she had FaceTime their daughter after she talked to him on FaceTime at 1030. That couldn't possibly be the FaceTime call he's talking about. So at some point, between like an hour and a half, Tam would have had to have face timed her daughter for Nicole to have been present for that. You know, I'm looking at the screenshot right now and you can see the hubby screenshot, which is kind of like at the very bottom. That's obviously the FaceTime that Lee's referring to. And then there's a few that are blacked out.

So I'm assuming those are people not connected to this case. But then you do have the My Baby Girl FaceTime, but it looks like it's four missed FaceTime calls. I don't think it would show it in red with four if she had picked up on one of those. I think it would show it in black like it does does with the hubby here. Unless maybe that means because she didn't call out and they called in. I don't know. But I don't know. However, just to go into what may have happened with Nicole here, there's got to be an

explanation for it. And I don't believe it's nefarious in nature. Just that part of it. I'm only, and this is the reason why, it would be very, very easy for law enforcement to discredit her alibi, right? It would be very easy for them through camera systems, neighborhood ring or simply safe cameras, her own security system, whatever they have to say, hey, you told us you left at 1030, were able to prove based on tracking you that you didn't leave till one.

Like even the most basic police officer would be able to discredit her if she's lying. So I tend to believe it's more in line with it's an earlier face time. We haven't really gotten there yet, but the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office didn't really do a lot of things to verify people's alibis and what they were saying outside of just asking them. And that's going to become the issue with this. Well, that's a problem. Yeah. I'm not disputing that. But my thing is, let me just play it out here.

Let's say Nicole's involved, right? She doesn't know that Forsyth is going to do a shit job, right? She has to assume that, hey, I'm going to say I left at 1030. They're going to be able to find out I'm lying very quickly. So there's a better lie to make here is what I'm saying. So there's some reasonable explanation for us. It doesn't completely exonerate anybody, in my opinion. But I'm just saying that there's got to be a simpler explanation as to how this happened.

because she's on FaceTime. She's talking to she's with she's with Tam at that point. And there's a FaceTime that we see it yesterday. It's a video call. They have it on they have it blocked most of them between that. And then there's the one at 1219 and then the one at 1232. If my baby girl was another one of those, they would have it unblocked.

You can kind of see that. And you can tell that it's not based on the length and like the emojis and stuff. Yeah. Right. Now if we had access to the screenshot, the phone, we could easily click that. eye and see exactly when those times came in. And law enforcement would be able to do that.

But you're right, they are missed. They're four missed calls. They're four missed calls. So I have questions as much as you do, but I'll just say this to wrap this up. If they were lying about when they left, it'd be pretty dumb to do it because there's data here to discredit what you're saying. So there's got to be something more to this, that this piece that we're missing because they don't know that law enforcement's not going to go and corroborate their story.

And it'd be a big gamble to say, yeah, I left at 10.30 if you didn't leave until one. This data didn't come out until the GBI reopened it after people were outraged that the Forsythe County Sheriff's Office closed it. That makes sense to me. I guess, let me pose it a different way. If Nicole's lying, there's no way she can project or predict that Forsyth won't check into what she's stating. I'm not disputing that they didn't do it, but my point would be if Nicole's initial statement is I left at 1030, when this originally, originally occurred, how does she know that they're not going to go check cameras from the surrounding neighborhood to say, wait a second, you didn't leave her house until one o'clock in

the morning? Okay. So that's part of this, right? There were several people in that house that had connections to Forsyth County Sheriff's Office outside of Jose. Okay. Friends, things like that. So maybe Nicole was assured by those people, hey, hey, they're not going to look into

this too deep. They're going to do a quick investigation, show like they're doing stuff. And then they're going to close it out and say it was next. which is exactly what they did. If you kind of look at things, I mean, at first they come up with this like, oh, she must have tripped over the landscape divider and fallen. And then they, you know, do their little investigation and they roll it as an accident and they close it out. So, but without doing all the things that they should have done to make sure they closed out. Yeah. And that would have worked both ways, right? Like if they had done their due diligence, again, I always talk about as

a detective playing defense attorney and prosecutor, right? Like, not only five, finding evidence to support whatever happened, but also finding any exculpatory evidence to rule out certain people or other potential theories. And when you don't do that, you open the door for a potential prosecution down the road where now they can use it as a form of reasonable doubt. So you have to also cross-reference any information you have to make sure, even if it doesn't seem possible, it's your job to vet those theories so that if it ever does go to trial, you can say, yeah, that would have been plausible. However, we took that into consideration and we vetted those theories by looking at the cameras leading from the house to the other house,

and this is what we found, and we can see this or whatever. And not doing that opens up a lot of speculation and rightfully so. They didn't do their job to the fullest extent. But yeah, this is an interesting one. And the fact that we're spending so much time on it is because it's important. We have to be able to account for everybody who was there and who wasn't there. And we believe that whatever happened to Tam would have happened between, mean, let's just give us a big window here.

Let's say 12.30, because that's the last time she's seen on videos. That's the last time someone outside the house saw her. So that's what I'm going with. Forget everybody in the building. They're all persons of interest, right? But the last outside party to talk to her was her daughter at 1232. So for me, the window was 1232 to even, let's say, 232 based on the stage of her body at the time when it was found.

We know that it was early onset or the early stages of full rigor. So she had been dead at least six hours at that point, which put you at least 2.30. So I would say 1230 to 2.30 for our window. So Jose Ben talks about how he could see how Tam might have fallen off the upper deck. He said everyone was drinking. And to his knowledge, Tam had a lot to drink. But as far as the way she was acting, she was fine. She wasn't acting especially drunk or intoxicated.

What do you think happened? What I think happened? See, we went out on that back to deck, just kind of looking like, and I've even kind of leaned over the railing myself. Yeah, it's not until I'm significantly over it that I'm coming off my heels and start to feel uneasy. And I'm thinking if I was that intoxicated and I was going to throw up,

I wouldn't need to really put myself over it. self over to that degree because I mean I think I mean it comes up to probably about here you know I really have to put myself on it yeah it's not like it's gonna undercut my hips and right away's gonna take me forward if I had to guess and it's really inexplicable as to why she could have been sitting on it right but I just don't had you ever seen her sit on it no no that well okay so I will say this that y'all forgot to ask there was one point where let's see that would have been me tom tamla jean i think there might have been somebody else out there but i can remember who that they

were trying to get the fire pit lit and ultimately they couldn't get it lit and i said screw this it's cold and people went trick me back on the inside so there was a point where a small group of us were out on the deck but in no way was the deck any other kind of focal point of a hangout area for the party. Okay. How many times did you see her go out there and to smoke or whatever? Just a handful, I think. Anybody ever go out with her? Not that I know of.

I think I'd just kind of be sitting in the common area and then more or less just kind of see her come back in. I never thought much of it. So if you had to guess, thinking the most logical thing is that maybe she sat up on the edge of the rail and right to spell yeah and in my you and i talked about that propane tank there i'm like did she did she step up on it to get up on the rail did she kind of do like oh you to hop up on it and got i said yep is that uh was that where the propane tank was i think it was because i talked to tom and asked them about it and i think when when they were struggling to get that fire

that lit. I didn't know if it was a tank issue or what. And he said he just grabbed it, slid it over. Right. Out of the way. All right. Just to be blunt, you didn't throw over the rail, did you? No, I didn't. Okay. Do you reason anything that you've come up with and conversations with people that would lead you to believe that anybody would have done that, or any issue with anybody?

Not at all. Okay. You know, I know that that's been some speculation and chatter. and just thinking nobody has anything to gain. There's just really inconceivable. It's just really inconceivable more of the mind as to what. Whatever. It's just questions we have to ask. I know.

Well, yeah. We think that that's what happened, but I don't know what happens. Yeah, so just to clear the deck, because we're about two, you know, maybe three-fourths of the way through this episode, we got a lot more a B-roll to go over, but I just want to kind of put potential theories in my mind what we're looking at here.

And one would be, an accident, right? She's on the railing. I don't think you can say she would have been facing forward or backwards at this point, although if she was leaning over the railing to vomit, I think you would see vomit on the ground. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's out of play here as far as the reason for getting up on the railing. I do think it's possible she could have sat on the railing and not balanced herself correctly and went over. And even so, even though her head is facing away from the balcony, it would still be possible if on the way over she tried to grab something and it contorted her body and she twisted and maybe bounced off of it and fell that way. I still think that's possible.

I've seen, I'm going to actually tell you a story real quick because I think it's relevant here. It's embarrassing for me, but I'm going to tell it anyways, my kids will laugh at this. I recently went to New York, I can't believe I'm telling the story. I recently went to New York City with my girls. And there's, if you've ever been to Moynihan Hall, I can't, this is so embarrassing. But I was like, your dad's pretty good at this stuff. I used to be able to slide down the railings. They had like these metal brass. railings coming down into Moynihan. If you've been there, you know what I'm talking about.

And I told Peyton that I could slide down the whole railing in one shot. And it was like long. And my dumbass hopped up on the railing, I had sweatpants on. This railing was a lot slicker than I thought. And I'm sliding. I got about halfway, Stephanie. And I felt my balance off a little bit. And I knew I was going backwards.

So I tried to grab myself, like on the railing to stop it. And instead, because I like, grabbed the. railing so hard, I flipped over backwards and kind of landed on my knees. I don't know if that's making sense, but I tried to catch myself and instead it just caused my shins to bounce off the stairs. And it was embarrassing because the security guard was yelling at me in front of my kids. And it was very embarrassing. But so that's anecdotal experience where your natural reaction is to try to grab on and prevent yourself from falling. It was a failed attempt. So as far as I'm looking at it right now, accident is obviously a possibility. I also think there's an angle

where something, something more malicious happened inside the residence and to make it look like a fall, she was thrown over the balcony, which would give you some of these injuries, not all of them. And then there's a possibility that she had some type of medical emergency. Something happened while on that balcony and she went over in the process of that, although I would expect to see signs of that in the autopsy, right? I agree. Yeah. So that's kind of of the three avenues I'm going with right now. And as far as where we are in the story, I think all three are still at play. So I don't see how she could sit on the railing, because why would you sit on the railing with your feet outwards? That's how you'd fall forward. Otherwise,

you'd be falling back. What I'm describing on this Penn Station, or the Moynihan thing, is my feet were actually facing in. So I wish I had a visual here to represent this, but imagine you're on the railing, your feet are inside. So you hop up on the railing, and when you hop up, because she wouldn't be tall enough to just sit up on it, right? You hop up on it and you just, you're off by just a millimeter. And when you do it, because you've been drinking, 2.3, I think you said, 2.3 or 2.8. 2.38, okay? So you jump up there.

Again, I don't know why you would do that, but you've been drinking, smoking a little bit. We don't always make the best decisions, right? So she hops up up on there to kind of this, like, relax. I don't know why she would do it. I'm just saying. And when she does, she realizes, oh, shit, I'm about to go over. And she grabs the railing. She grabs the top of the railing.

But that's not going to stop you or brace you from still falling backwards. So as you grab it, you would kind of almost twist because your hand is going to lock up. That's your natural instinct. You're going to have a strong grip in that moment because you're scared. And as you do, you'd go over. But you wouldn't just naturally flip over. You'd kind of twist in a way where you'd bounce off the balusters before coming to your final resting spot. And I would defer to a biomechanical engineer in this.

This is not something I would testify to in court, but that's just from a layman's perspective could have happened. It also could be that she was leaning forward, right? Where she, for some reason, was leaning over the railing. Again, I can't explain how, but she would go, you know, her feet would go over her head. She would do almost a 180 degree spin in the air and land in the way we see her. So I think that's more plausible, but I can't with 100 percent certainty say that. that she couldn't have been leaning backwards either.

Right. And I mean, he's talking about the propane tank. So they... Yeah, why would you do that? So when the police found... When they came on November 4th, they noticed that the dust and debris and stuff had been wiped off the top of the propane tank. And so obviously they're asking, like, oh, why was that propane tank, like, at the place

where it was, and why was it... Yeah, you can see it in the pictures. And he says, well, I think because they were trying to get the fire pit started and they thought it was like a faulty tank, so they just shoved it to the side. Yeah. Yeah, you can see that if you go to... of that picture, which we can show you see for anybody who's not on video, you got to, you have a picture of the balcony.

There's, it's a huge balcony. They have two like dining room tables like, you know, kind of like areas where you can congregate and sit down. Pretty nice. And then there's like a table up against the balcony in one section. And then there's a propane tank like you would find with a grill. Yeah. Up against the railing as well.

And you could look at that and say, well, that would be something you could stand up on to get on the railing. Why would you do that? Why would you do that? Why would you do that? There is also like an envelope on the balcony. I'm assuming, and I hate this, but that's from detectives. It could be, yeah.

And they didn't remove it from the picture, which is just an asshole move. Like, you're not supposed to have things that you added to the picture there because now people like me are looking at it. And I'm going to be questioning what this is for 10 days because that could be significant. That could be the key to this case. In reality, it's Joe Smith's folder that he left on the table before taking the picture. Right. You know, so that's a problem. Also, just to point one more thing out, the way this house is, and this is important, it's, it's in an area where it's densely populated.

And so the other houses are right next to it. Like you can literally see. They have a six foot privacy fence, though. Six foot privacy fence, but this balcony is above it. And you can actually see into your neighbor's balcony and the neighbor next to the neighbor's balcony. So I do wonder what interviews were done with the surrounding neighbors because they would have had a clear line of sight to that balcony. And I would also wonder if they had cameras as well. So these are things that you may give us the answer to, but I would be asking those questions.

They did some interviews with the neighbors, but we'll talk about that. Okay. All right. Let's take our last break, and we'll be right back. I feel like every dog owner has that moment when you look at your dog's food and then look at your own food and you're like, this doesn't seem fair. This sucks. I've definitely been there where you're sitting there. Like, I'm eating my own food.

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Crime Weekly 55. That's all one word. Again, that's the Petstable.com. Code Crime Weekly 55. Okay, so on November 9th, Forsyth County Sheriff's Office detectives interviewed Madeline Lombardi, and they recorded her statement. Now remember, Madeline lived with Jean and John's boyfriend, Jose, and John referred to her as an aunt, but she was not related to Jean by blood. So Madeline said that on Saturday, November 3rd, the first person to arrive to Jean, John's house to the party was Nicole Lawson. She got there between 4 and 4.30 p.m. She arrived with food and decorations, and so Madeline helped her get those things set up. 45 minutes to an hour later, Jean and Stacey Smith arrived, and Madeline thinks Jean went upstairs

to take a bath, do her makeup, get ready, etc. Madeline said that other people started trickling in up until 7 p.m. and past 7 p.m. and then the last person to arrive was Tam, and she got there sometime after 8 p.m. Now, as we know, Tam was not the last person to get there, even though a lot of people say that. We heard in, I think it was Nicole's interview. Yeah, Nicole said Paula showed up. She said Paula got there late. Yeah. And Bridget Fuller actually arrived after Tam because Madeline talks about all the girls being in the living room and taking a picture of them. When the game came, got ready to come on the LSU game, all the girls went, sit up. Well, let me backtrack a minute. The next person that arrived was, let me think of her name, Bridget and her husband.

Okay. So Bridget and her husband got here. The girls were already on the couch and they were saying Bridget, come sit down. And then Tam was going to take a picture of everybody on the sofa. And she wasn't in the picture. And I said, no, go sit down over there. I'm going to take the picture. So then I took a picture of everybody.

And we had that photo. Yes, we have that photo for you guys if you're on video. Again, even if you're just more of an audio listener, when you have some time, come over to the YouTube, fast forward to this timestamp, check out these photos because they add so much context. Yes. So Madeline says that Bridget got there after Tam. And remember, Bridget is technically the last person to see Tamla Horstford alive. Right. And this is what she had to say in her interest.

interview with the Forsythe County Sheriff's Office on November 14th, 2018. I was there first. Tam got in late. She came hopping along into the front door, trying to take her boots off to be considerate new carpet. So she was hopping around trying to get her boots off, left him at the, whatever you call that, hutch or whatever there in the dining room. She brought her bag in, laid it down behind the back side of, the sectional couch and insisted that she was ready to put her pajamas on so she put her pajamas on they made drinks made complete asses of themselves dancing Jose sat back with his camera making it look like he was doing something

when he was really recording it is very embarrassing for them not me and I know Of course, Tam knows, you know, in a shell. I haven't quite warmed up yet. So, you know, in her little stupor she was in, she's like, oh, there is no hiding. So she comes and she plops on top of me. You know, meanwhile, I'm holding this bottle, and I'm like, I don't want to spill this on Jean's furniture.

So Jose's beside me, and I'm like, dude, can you take this? Can you take this? I think that picture is even in there. And she's all loving, loving. And she's a very sweet person. Some of it could be brought out by alcohol, maybe some pot. I don't know any other extracurricular activities. None of my business.

Don't push it all me. I have nothing to say about what you do. But I have my lines. And just as happy as could be. So first of all, before I say anything, you will come to find Bridget Fuller is a piece of work. Okay. She's talking about Tam. So according to Bridget, she's already there.

Tam comes in. She's bouncing around, getting her shoes off, then she throws herself on Bridget. And Bridget's like, oh my God, this girl so much, right? But according to Madeline, Bridget and her husband got there after Tam got there. So it's like, once again, who got there when? Because nobody can figure it out. But another thing that everyone said was that no one had any issues with Tam, right? Of course the police asked that.

Like, were there any issues, personal issues? Were there their rivalries? Did somebody not like her? Everyone said, no, everyone was great. There were no arguments, no tension. But here's Bridget Fuller, the last person to see Tamla Horsford alive. And she's talking about her in that night. And she kind of sounds like annoyed with her.

You know, like maybe she was smoking marijuana. I'm not going to judge anybody. Everybody was making fools out of themselves. I'm not going to judge. Not me. of course not me. I'm the, you know, responsible one. Now, she doesn't seem to be a huge fan of Tamla, to say the least. Now, Bridget said that they all hung out that night and then people started to go to bed and leave. So Bridget's also talking about Tamla and everyone drinking that night. And according

to Bridget and most of the partygoers, all of the partygoers that talked to the police about that night, Tomla was not acting intoxicated at all. Tam, how much did she have to drink? Oh, that woman was a seasoned drinker. Really? I've been there. I can spot it. She's a, she's definitely a seasoned drinker.

Okay. It would take an enormous amount to knock her on her ass, and I honestly think for her to get to that knock her on her ass, she would have probably ended up with alcohol poisoning and been throwing up. Yeah. Because your body can only take so much of that shit and it's like it's got to go.

Right. You know? I mean, now she held it well. She was not, she was not sloppy and disoriented. To put it bluntly, she wasn't like our friend Jen.

Yeah. Jen cannot handle her like her and then she goes through that whole woes me I've got to eat worms nobody likes me anymore like shut it I'm gonna take a bottle of water and scorn it up in your brain and clean it out for you so yeah I mean I'm just and I don't generally try to pass being ugly on the on the first go around I you know But I do get an intuition with people. Some people say it's creepy. I don't know.

So Bridget's basically saying, hey, Tamla could, she drank a lot, but she could hold her alcohol. She wasn't acting intoxicated at all. Unlike our friend Jen, she's talking about Jennifer Morel, who was acting very intoxicated for much of the night. Bridget said Jen was getting all high-pitched and screaming that nobody liked her. What was me? I'm going to eat worms, et cetera, et cetera. So then we hear that Bridget's up with Tamla. And Tomla's actually the one who walks Bridget to the door.

I hung out a little bit longer with Tam and I'm like, it's no offense to you. But Jen was really overwhelming for me. And there's just a lot of, you know, things I still got to get used to. And I'd feel better if I was at my home home. Mm-hmm. Because I won't have slept there. I don't sleep at strange people's houses. I will stay up all night long.

Because I just don't know what to expect. Right. You know, that whole sleeping with one eye open thing. Sure. And... You're just not comfortable. I just have trust issues. Mm-hmm.

So I hung around for a little while longer with her, waiting for Gary to show up. She was eating a bowl of gumbo at the island. She was not stumbling. She was not slurring anywhere. She wasn't drilling. Like I had to worry about a bib. None of that.

I mean, she seemed perfectly fine. And when Gary text me and told me that he was there, I was putting my shoes on, grabbing my bags, headed to the front door. She walked me to the front door. She gave me big gloves and hugs, and she even gave me a kiss on the cheek. And she's like, you know, I just love you.

I'm like, you just love the things I do. Because I'm the mother hen. And she goes, no, you're really a good person. Okay, well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And I'm like, now take your ass in that house and finish eating your gumbo. Yeah.

I mean, maybe it's some mothering instead. or something, but I'm like, go put more food on that belly. I know how much liquor you took in. Put more food on that belly. And she shut the door behind me, and I told her, I was like, make sure you lock it. And pretty much that was, that was it. I walked out into the driveway, got in the explorer with Gary, and we took off. And that was like 1.45-ish.

Yeah. You know, give her take seconds. She walked me to the door, gave me kisses, so my DNA will be all over them jammies. Because the woman, I don't know why, but she just felt the need that she needed to kiss me and hug me. And because I'm a socially awkward person, she thought it be fun to while I was sitting there, minding my own business. And I was working at this party, mind you. And the picture I've seen you're in there on your laptop.

Yeah, yeah, but I do it all the time. I mean I work all weekend, a week. My shit doesn't stop. Now do I do it for long and lengthy, lengthy periods? No, but I do have to keep up on things. So I was sitting there doing that and everything and she goes, I just don't think you're in the full swing of this. And she comes over and she jumps on my lap and she's stravels my lap and she goes, you need to relax. Meanwhile, I had a bottle. at my hand and I'm like, Jose was beside me. I'm like, here, this is going to end up on the carpet and it's going to pitch John off. I'm constantly chasing cups and stuff under people's asses. I'm like, you're going to knock it off. It's going to make a sticky mess. See, motherhead.

Mm-hmm. And, yeah, I mean, she was playing around and everything and, you know, having a good time. Right. And I didn't have any problem with it. She'd go out to smoke. and if I wasn't out there with her, somebody else was out here,

didn't let her go out by herself. Okay, so remember, Bridget's the last person to see Tam. She said she leaves her on 145, you know, 147, whatever. Now, you heard Bridget kind of talking about, she goes back and forth. She talked about how Tam walked her out, walked her to the door, and gave her a big hug and a kiss,

and she's like, my DNA is going to be all over those jammies because she felt the need to hug and kiss me. And once again, this does not sound like somebody who's Tam's biggest fan, right? Because she's like, you know, I'm just the mother hen. And Tam said, I love you. And I said, well, you love what I do for you. You don't love me. You know, just very weird.

And she says something. And then she goes back in the night. And she's talking about how she's sitting on the couch and Tam's all over her again. And she said, and you'll see, like, I was very reserved. I'm on my laptop. And you can see her in that picture where all the girls. are there. She's sitting on her laptop. She does have that open. But she also says something that's interesting. She said, well, when I wasn't out there with her when she was smoking, somebody was.

We didn't leave her alone to smoke, whereas Jose is like, no, I never saw anybody out there with her. There's a lot to unpack here. And I know I talked about potential scenarios of what played out here. I want to add a couple wrinkles to it because we talked about the overarching theories, which is, you know, this was an accident or it was a homicide that was made to look like an accident. The other wrinkles as we start to learn about the dynamics going on in that house that night. Tam appeared to a beat, and this isn't a negative thing, by the way, a little touchy-feely, you know, drinking, doing whatever, and it happens at parties all the time. My buddies are same exact way. It's, I love you, man, we call it. You know, where they're, you know, this isn't for everybody, but they're a little bit more like, you know,

hanging on you, messing with you. And when we think about potential wrinkles here, it doesn't have to be one end of the spectrum or the other where this was a intentional homicide or was a tragic accident. It could be somewhere in the middle where, as you just said, had Bridget put out there that Tam never went out on the porch alone. And so she could have been out there with someone and maybe they're hanging all over each other, right? Because we've got to go back to the time frames here, right? 149, the door opens to the balcony, 150, it closes, and then it opens again at 157,

but never closes. Now, if we're to assume that that door opens and someone goes out there with Tam, if it's Tam that goes out there, they could have been out on the balcony playing around. Maybe I love you, man, both of them, hugging each other, wrestling a little bit, inebriated, lose their balance, and there's an accident that happens while they're play fighting or hugging, someone goes over. Obviously, that person would be Tam, so the other person runs back inside, doesn't shut the door, lets everybody know what just happened. And they're like, oh, we're all screwed. This is not good. We're not saying anything. It doesn't have to be an

intentional homicide where they staged it to look like an accident. There could be something in the middle there. So having this context of how Tam was acting, and by the way, again, not a negative thing, it's the truth. It's what it is. Some people may have been okay with it. Some people may have been annoyed by it. Is it possible that they're out on the balcony? Tim's hanging on someone. They're annoyed by it and they push her off of them and she goes over. Also a possibility. So just to add those wrinkles into what potentially happened here based on what Bridget is telling us, I think it's important, especially when you consider the fact that at 150, that door was left ajar. Why would you do that? That's someone in a rush. That's someone

running back inside because they're forgetting the common sensical thing to shut the door and lock it before the end of the evening. Maybe. Yeah. On the other hand, you could say it's someone who's inebriated, but based on what we have here, and that more than likely, whatever occurred happened on that balcony, I would go with the notion that someone ran back inside and was clearly thinking about other things. Okay.

So now we're going to hear from Bridgett. Because remember, Bridget said she was leaving at 147 a.m. after everybody went to sleep. Yeah, she just said 145 exactly in that. in that thing. Yeah. She says she doesn't like to spend the night of people's houses. She's got trust issues, et cetera, et cetera. So as Tam walks her out, this is the conversation they have. And it's very important what Bridget claims Tam said. She said she was going back in after she walked me out to finish her gumbo, go have a cigarette, and go to bed. She did have a brief conversation about maybe trying to drive.

home and I'm like, Tam, I don't agree with that. Take a few hours, four hours or something. Lay on the couch. Just let your body mend some before you do anything stupid. There's no reason. Right. You made casserole for the kids for in the morning for breakfast. There's no rush.

Just sit. Mm-hmm. Just sit and veg. So Bridget said that Tam was thinking about going home when Tam walked Bridget out, right? And Bridget's like, no, you've had too much to drink. There's no reason to do that. You made breakfast for the kids. Don't worry about it. Just, you know, chill. Now, she's not the only person who said that Tam wanted to go home that night. And here is Lee, Tam's husband, supporting that he believes Tam would have wanted to go home.

Do you know why she wanted to go home? Did anyone ever tell you what the issue was that made her decide it was time to go home. I know you said she nobody had to tell me. There was a there was a there was a little clip of a video that I don't know if it's even out there. I don't know who has it but I remember seeing it and I remember seeing my wife standing on one foot she was standing on one foot with her with the the the not the heel the arm the arch of her other foot like up into where her knees at and there was a lady I think her name was Jen Morrell or something. I don't know, but I think that's who it was, who she was talking to.

And when she was talking to her, I've seen that face numerous times, numerous times. I know that face. And she was not happy. She wasn't happy. You could see that something was going on. Oh, yeah. And so I wanted to know what that conversation was about.

And nobody has ever told me anything because I know she was not happy. during that conversation. And I could hear whoever was filming it, you could hear guys in the background, one said me two and another one said me three. And then it cut out. And it was like a short clip.

I don't know what happened. I don't know. But something happened. Something happened to piss her off. And in the reporting that the police have shared is clear that at some point, from the moment that you spoke to her and she seemed to be happy,

that she decided she wanted to go home. And then what I have read is that people, that someone inside the party said she couldn't go home or shouldn't go home because she had been drinking and obviously she didn't need to drive, but there was some conversation about her potentially ordering an Uber or something like that. And still, they prevented her from leaving.

I don't know if there was a conversation about ordering an Uber. Okay, I might be wrong. I've never heard that. Okay. This is the first time I'm hearing that one. But one thing I do know about my wife, and this is, I mean, it may not be a good thing, but we're both from the islands. And we both grew up drinking. And she could handle her liquor.

She could handle, I mean, and she would drink, like, straight shots of tequila. And she, you know, she didn't, like, really drink, you know, somebody said she was mixing Mountain Dew with, somebody at the party said she was mixing Mountain Dew. My wife doesn't even drink Mountain Dew, you know. And it's like there was just a bunch of things that they were saying that don't add up. But my wife would have made it home. I can guarantee you that 100%. All right.

So the video he's talking about is a short clip. Tam's talking to Jen Morel. And he's like, yeah, there's clearly something wrong. It could have just been the Jen, like everyone said, was just trashed, inebriated out of her mind. Sounds like everybody was drinking pretty heavily that night. If we're being honest. Exactly. Everyone was definitely inebriated.

But we are not done with Bridget Fuller. Okay? So around the time that the Forsyth County Sheriff's Office was wrapping up their investigation and getting ready to put out that press release, they called Bridget to ask her a few more questions. Now, the person talking to Bridget on the phone in this next clip is Detective Andy Kalen. Remember, Jose's friend. And something interesting comes out during this conversation because apparently at some time after her first interview with the Forsyte's County Sheriff's Office and before the phone call, Bridget was pulled over and coming, and she called the investigators who were assigned

to the Tamla Horstford investigation. This is Bridget. Hey, Bridget. Andy Kalen, how are you, hon? You okay? Yeah, you're fine. We have sent the investigation to somebody else for review. And when we came back, we thought.

that there was one or two questions that we just wanted to ask you. And it'll be like two minutes. And it's myself and Sergeant Sexton in here. And he'll just ask you to two questions and we'll be done. But I don't trust people.

I understand. But you trust me. You called me that night when coming, stopped you and I helped you. Oh, my God. Yeah. Remember? And I sent Jason to help you out

and give you a ride home. And I didn't let you. you down? Right, right. But that worked out. Yeah, it's okay. We respect that. I really do. And we don't want to trample on your issues and make you any more upset or, you know, and give you any more anxiety. We just want to ask you these two questions. Okay, so is that weird? Because like you said, every person in that house until that investigation was closed would be a person of interest. Right. And she gets pulled over for something unrelated, like a trafficked traffic infraction or whatever. And she calls the detectives who are investigating the death of Tamla Horsford,

who she technically is a person of interest. She calls them to help her instead of like calling her husband to pick her up or. Yeah, I don't know. That makes no sense to me. It's weird, right? And her behavior is crazy in that moment. I don't know. She's weird.

She's a piece of work. Pick up the phone and, yeah, it just seems odd. The whole conversation, the whole interaction is odd to me. So would you consider that a conflict of interest, though, that these detectives are like helping her out with other law enforcement bodies? 100%. Yeah, at minimum, it's a conflict of interest. I would argue that if there's something more there, they probably wouldn't be putting that over a recorded line where he's like, hey, remember, I helped you out. But at minimum, yeah, no disputing it. Conflict of interest for sure. But remember, this call doesn't come out until later when the GBI is investigating. For sure, but it's still on a recorded line. Yeah. Again, could just be a moron, but I wouldn't be putting stuff like that over. over a recorded phone line if the potential of it being investigated later could come out.

But yeah, at minimum, there's a professional standard there, and you have to separate yourself from that. It shouldn't be doing any favors for anybody, never mind people you're investigating. So they said they got to ask her two questions. One of the questions the detectives wanted to ask Bridget was about her Xanax prescription. Because remember, Tamla Horstford had Xanax in her system during her autopsy, but she did not have a prescription for Xanax and none was found in her bags. Bridget Fuller, however, did have a prescription for Xanax, and apparently it was always on her person. She wore it in a necklace around her neck. I know you take Xanax.

You had it, you know, you have it around your neck. You wear it in the little pit. I did not give anything to anybody. That's all I wanted to need my drugs. I understand you do. So, Tam, you know, the autopsy or the toxic college report showed she had some Xanax in her system. And it wouldn't matter if you did give it to her. If she took it.

That's not that. I didn't, but I'm telling you, truth on, I'm telling you. If you really, really, really want to know the truth, like when my Christian and you were there, you have me take my medication, I cannot lie. I don't know if it's a side effect or what, but I could tell you my deepest, darkest secrets. And you know what? It wouldn't be a lie. It might be embarrassing as hell, but it would not be a lie.

Okay, so she didn't ask for any Xanax? No. You didn't give her any Xanax? No. Okay. No. Okay. So according to Bridget Fuller, she needs her medication.

Okay? She doesn't give it out to anyone. And when she's on it, she can't lie, right? It's like a truth serum. So she's going to tell her deepest, darkest secrets, even though she has trust issues and she trusts nobody. Now, the people who were at the party, they all consistently said that everyone is having a great time, getting along.

There were no personal issues and no tensions between Tamla and anyone else there. Now, during her first interview, like I said, Bridget sort of seems like I said, like Tamla might not be her favorite person, but she also says she has trust issues and she deals with anxiety. So maybe it wasn't anything personal. But during this phone call, Bridgett expresses something a bit different. Stacey came up with the idea of let's just all get together at Johns and then nobody has to worry about driving. We'll watch the football game and we'll just chill out and there'll be a, you know, a relaxed type of thing. Fine. Okay. And like I said, the girl that goes to the slumber party and has to call my mom and daddy because there were still too many people

I wouldn't be comfortable with. And Tam was one of them. I mean, I didn't know her well enough. Right. And there are pictures. I don't know if you ever saw them or not. Ask somebody about them, but there's pictures where I'm sitting on the very edge of the couch, minding my business with my computer most of the time because I was working, and she comes over,

and she plops on my lap and straddles me, and she grabs my boobs, okay? personal boundaries. Right. And then I don't give strange people well. No, and I understand all that. And I believe you. I just, for the record, wanted to ask you if you had any knowledge of her taking any Xanax

or if she might have gotten it from you. Actually, believe it or not, they all try to be hush, hush about the fact that she was smoking something. Right. I'm not an idiot, and I know what it smells like. Right. I mean, for Christ's sake, you know,

Matthew has to take the liquid of it for his seizures. Jean's oldest son. So, I mean, I'm familiar with that smell. Okay. But it's none of my business, and I don't do it. Right. I have asthma.

It wouldn't make any sense for me to start puffing on stuff. Right. So, I mean, no, I did not give her anything, and no, I did not see her put anything in her drink. I honestly don't know where or how, or if it was already in her system, depending on how much she took. Well, it was a very, very little amount. So it's...

Okay, so if it was a little amount, then she had to take it while she was there. Well, not necessarily. I mean, you got, you know, if it was, you know, remnant center system from days prior, that could be too. So, I mean, there's just, but... It stays in that long?

It can, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. It was a very small amount. So it's no big deal. I just wanted to ask. you on the record if you had any knowledge of it if she got it from you or you given it to her anything like that so I do not give my stuff I do I know huh okay I need my drugs anything I have to have them is there anything else

that you think I need to know whatever I'm pretty much done at this point I will tell you that she was a and like I said that was only the second time I've seen her We did not have, like, a, you know, an awesome friendship that had been building for years. But she was very touchy feeling. She was very loving, like, you know, like everything I did, every good thing I did picked up after people, which is what I do. That's part of my nervous coping skills as I clean up. And she's like, oh, I love you. I want to take you home with me, blah, blah, blah.

But she was extremely touchy-feely and huggy and loving and everything. Yeah. So it seems like now Bridget's more like, you know, I have these instincts and I have issues with people. And Tam was one of those people. So she's kind of admitting I didn't really like her. Okay. Didn't like her behavior. Didn't like she was touched.

We talked about a couple of minutes ago, right, where I think this could be a potential motive, especially when you go back to the conversation. that Lee had with that interviewer as well, where, in his opinion, knowing his wife, she's in a posture that's suggestive of her being upset, of her being pissed off at that moment. So could there have been a conversation where someone approached her or said something to her where they're like, hey, you're touching too much. Don't touch me. I don't like your hands on me. Could have been Bridget. Could have been one of the other people there. So when you look at this and you're trying to figure out what happened and the why, it is a potential motive, not necessarily for a homicide,

but for a disagreement or maybe a minor physical altercation that occurred in, you know, moments before going over the balcony. So these are all things we have to take very serious because it could be insight into what actually happened that night. And Bridget's also kind of making her sound like not just like touchy feeling, but almost like sexual, like over sex. Like she grabbed my boobs, you know, like, all right, girl, chill out. I mean, listen, you know, to each their own, right?

But I can understand how someone who may not like that, you know, right? If you're not drinking heavily, you may not want some random person that you just met one or two times coming up and fondling you. I can't falter for that. But for me, what's more important here is I don't think Tam was doing anything maliciously. She wasn't, it's just her way of, you know, being affectionate. She's extroverted. Yeah. It's not for everybody. And listen, it goes both ways. Men and women, like I was just saying a few minutes ago, I have buddies in mine. Once they had a couple drinks, it's I love you, man. They're hugging. They're kissing your cheek. It's like, whoa, you know, I'm okay with it. You know what I mean? Like I've been there, but not everyone is, especially if they

don't know the person that well, everyone has their own boundaries. But for me, it's still significant because if she's doing it with Bridget, if everything that Bridget is saying is truthful, she's probably doing it with everybody there. And maybe someone else had more of an issue with it, which, and they were still there when whatever happened happened. But it sounds like Bridget really hates it. Did not like it. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. Okay. So remember, Bridget vehemently denied giving Tamla any Xanax. Not only that, she vehemently denied ever giving anyone any Xanax. She needs her med. She's not giving them out to anyone. Fast forward to a few years later when the GBI reopened and were investigating Tamma's case. This is a phone call between a GBI

agent who I believe is Kelly Aldrich and Stacey Smith. Stacey's another woman at the party. Stacey had already had a longer in-person interview with the GBI that we'll come back to in the future. but during this interview, she said that Tam was smoking weed the night of the party and she admitted to smoking with her. And we'll see this a lot. Aunt Madeline admits to it too, by the way. But everybody was like, no, Tam was the only person smoking cigarettes and weed. Please, everybody's smoking. Yeah.

Mostly everybody. Yeah. Nobody was like, oh, we're all smoking weed. Everybody was like she was the only person smoking cigarettes, the only person smoking weed. But the truth starts to come out. So Stacey admits she's like, yeah, I took a puff of it. No doubt. You know? No doubt. Come on.

And during that same interview where she had missed a smoking the weed, she's actually the one that brought up Bridget and her Xanax necklace. And then after this first interview she had, Stacey said this on a phone call with GBI. We talked about Bridget and her Xanax. And I know that you had said that she, as far as you knew, she didn't give Tam any. Have you ever gotten Xanax from Bridget?

When was that around about? And that was 2018. That was after Tam died? Okay. So she gave you Xanax after your goddaughter died? Yes. What about after Tam died? Help me sleep because I was...

Okay. Okay, so Stacy now says, okay, yeah, Bridget did give me Xanax, but this was after Tam died, and it was a month after. She said that her goddaughter, Taylor, had taken her own life, and she had to help plan the funeral. And because this was so upsetting to her and she was so close to Taylor and all of that and she was involved in the funeral planning, she was very stressed out. And Bridget noticed this and gave her. annex. Now, these interviews and calls were not made public until the following year. And when the Justice for Tamla Horstford Facebook page posted them, there were a few interesting comments underneath Stacey's phone call. Someone said, quote, I know Stacey personally and have for years. It blows my mind

that she stated she's the godmother and that she was planning a funeral. She was not Taylor's godmother, nor was she involved in the funeral arrangements, end quote. Then someone else posted, quote, you are not Taylor's godmother. You had nothing to do with Taylor's funeral planning. Please quit using the death of my granddaughter for your advance to give credence to your problems, end quote. And then yet another person wrote, quote, she didn't plan my daughter's funeral and I never made her my daughter's godmother. She is full of shit. End quote.

So I looked into this, right? Because these could be anybody. That last person who said, my daughter, I looked into her Facebook page and she did in fact have a daughter named Taylor who took her own life. and the person who referred to Taylor as his granddaughter is in fact this woman's father. So that checks out. So first of all, it's weird that Stacey saying, oh, I got Xanax because of my goddaughter and I was planning the funeral, and all that seems to be a complete lie. But Stacey admits to receiving Xanax from Bridget, even though Bridget said she never gives

her medicine to anyone. But only after Tamla died, remember, not around the time Tamla died, a month later. So the GBI investigation then turned up text messages that showed Stacey had sent Bridget, a message on November 4th, the morning that Tam was found dead. And that message said, quote, I hate to ask, but can I please get more meds? It really helped me. And quote, Bridget responded affirmatively, and they coordinated a time and place to meet and exchange the Xanax. Did Bridget give you anything the morning, Tam died while you were back at the house and then meet you later that night to give you anything? I guess you'd be surprised to know there was a text on your

phone to her asking her to meet you to give you some more of her medicine because it helped you that morning that's fine you just don't but you don't remember it okay so now we have proof that not only did bridget give stacey zanax the morning tam died but gave her more later that same day but bridget saying she doesn't give zanx to anybody yeah but tamla has zanx in her system Bridget wears it around her necklace and apparently gives it out like lifesavers. Yeah. I mean, yeah, around the necklace is, uh, is interesting as well. It's weird.

Like you're trying to hide it. I mean, I know a lot of people who have a prescription now as a plan. Or you're trying to be obvious about it almost. Like I have Xanax around my neck because I have such bad anxiety issues. Odd. Odd. Now does it mean she's a cold, you know, a cold blooded killer? No, it just means that just from what we're hearing, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck,

our victim has Xanax in her system. She doesn't have a prescription for it. It's a small amount. could be in there from the days prior, more than likely not, right? And so you think about the people who had access to Xanax that night, and we've already proven that they have given out that Xanax, so they're lying to law enforcement. I think you can make the assumption that more than likely Tam was provided Xanax by Bridget.

That's an assumption. It's not a guarantee, but based on what we have, it seems reasonable. Now the question becomes, why is she lying about it? Is it because she feels some level of guilt and may have the Xanax may have contributed to an inebriation that led to a tragic accident or is there more to the story? We don't know because now we can't, we can't believe everything Bridget's saying. Well, I thought it was interesting because earlier when she was on the phone,

she was like, I didn't see her take anything. I didn't see her put anything in her drink, which is like, why would Tam put Xanax in her own drink? No, no, no, that wouldn't make sense. So where did that even come from? Almost like a Freudian slip kind of, you know, like an unconscious thing. So Bridget is then confronted about this whole Xanax thing. Because remember, Bridget, it's like absolutely not.

never give anyone my Xanax. Kelly Eldridge of the GBI went to her house because she had taken her cell phone, right, to get stuff out of it, extract it. And when the GBI showed up, Bridget was allegedly very ill. She was having some medical emergency. Kelly goes to the door and they're like, you can't talk to Bridget right now. She's really sick. And the Kelly Eldridge of the GBI, she's like, well, I'm just returning her phone. Like I can come back, but it wouldn't be till tomorrow, but I'm just returning her phone, et cetera, et cetera. Now, eventually, they do allow Kelly to go in and talk to Bridget, and Kelly's like, here's your phone.

But we are eventually going to have to talk about what I found on your phone when it was in the possession of the GBI. All right, Bridget, I do need to talk to you. We won't do it now because I know you're not feeling good. But I'll get with you in a couple days, okay? Hopefully when you're feeling maybe a little better. I did get what you needed. I need to talk to you because...

I'll tell you, I know you're on some medication, so I hate to talk to you about it right now. It hasn't impaired me that bad, obviously, because I'm still in pain. Okay. Well, let me ask you, because yesterday you told me that you don't ever share your Xanax with anybody because you need it. So I've only gone through your phone. I've gone through Stacy's phone, and I know you've given Stacy some Xanax after this happened. Yeah. So with that said...

Yeah, because she was... I mean, I thought she was going to have a freaking nervous breakdown. But I need to know then, because Tam got Zinnacks from somebody, it didn't come and and didn't just pop out of nowhere. No. And I want you to, I want to make sure it's real clear that you know, I'm not here to charge you with giving her anything. We just need to know where it came from.

No. I knew Stacey well enough. I knew Stacey well enough that the woman was going to crack. Okay? Uh-huh. I mean, she was going to fall. How many did you get with Stacey? Stacy. Did you give her one that morning and then want to meet her that night to give her another one?

Just say I don't remember if you don't. If you don't remember, and like I said, I'm not, and I'm going to make this company you too. She's not being charged with distribution. I just know that when she's under. No, I understand. She can. She can ask me and I couldn't. I can tell you from the text messages, it appears that you maybe gave her one at the house that morning. And then you met her that night to give her another one. Oh, that was a small one. They come in different... increments. Yeah. And then this March, did you give John any?

Oh, Christ, probably. And the reason I'm asking, if you're honest with that, then I'm hoping you're going to be honest about Tam. So that's why I'm trying to clear something this up. We don't want it to look bad that you told me you never share with. Not with just... Not with strange people.

Like I told you, I spent an entire week with Jean in Florida, and it was a messy divorce, and her husband was often trying to pick up with the kids and everything. I mean, I've been through some stuff with her, and, yeah, between the two of them, they were going to break. Stacey is just emotionally unstable, but Jean had so much crap going on. Her mom's got issues. I don't know how much longer she's going to be living and her mom's dad had died. The boyfriend that her mom has now is actually going to die because he has prostate cancer. And, you know, her oldest son decided he wanted to go live with dad all of a sudden.

And he's got serious issues medically. And then she was in the hospital several times because of her blood pressure. I'm not judging you for any of this. I'm just, I want to make sure because we don't want to. come out later that you've been given Zaynex to everybody she doesn't normally and then you've lied to me about it and that's where like i said strangers i did not give my my drugs out to to strange people like i said jana had spent a lot of time with and stacey i swear to god i thought it was for her best interest okay so i'm not going to sit here and and go through all of this here's the

bottom line. As we're sitting here as a detective, and the investigator kind of alluded to this, it's about credibility, right? If you're not telling the truth about something that's on the surface, trivial, right? Like, if you're given one of your Xanax pills to a friend, I don't, I'm not condoning it, but at the end of the day, it happens. You're not going to prison. Yeah. But to get on a phone call and basically present yourself as like the, the arbiter of truth. Like you're out here, you don't lie, you can't do it. It's not just a character flaw where you have this inability to lie and you don't give your drugs to anyone. Well, we know that's not true. And now we're substantiating it with facts, with data. And so the only reason you're actually telling us the truth is because you can't lie.

Because you're red-handed, you're done. And so just from a macro level looking at it when we're trying to evaluate credibility when it comes to a potential homicide, we can't trust you. It's that simple. That's the reason they're really dialing in on this is because if you're lying about this, you're going to lie about a death. And so Bridget, regardless of whatever else is going on in her life, is not credible. Can't trust the word she's saying, period. Yeah. I mean, it's because now we find out not only is Bridget given Xanax to Stacey, but also to Jean, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And she's lying about that. Yeah. There's no reason she wouldn't lie about giving it to someone who passed away that evening. Now, again, doesn't mean it's a homicide, but could you be a contributing factor to that? now, Tam's drinking and doing Xanax and smoking weed. Yeah, that's not going to help her, right?

And so she might be looking at it from that perspective. Well, the whole point is she may have ingested that Xanax unknowingly. Oh, that's all. Yeah. Yeah. Like maybe Bridget slipped it into her drink because anybody who takes Xanax, which I have a prescription for Xanax when I need it, you know, absolutely, you don't take that with alcohol.

You do not mix Xanax and alcohol. Unless you want a party. No, I mean, unless you want to not be awake and conscious. I know of people who have dabbled in, you drink one drink and you have some Xanax and it enhances whatever experience you're having. It would knock me the hell out. I think everyone's different. I think everyone's different. I've been at parties for sure where they're drinking and doing Xanax, for sure.

I mean, not recently, but in college where they're definitely taking Xanax and drinking. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but it's a thing. If you're on a prescription and you have Xanax, you know very well and it says it. Do not operate having machinery. No, no, don't do it. Do not drink alcohol. No doubt. It really exacerbates.

No doubt. 100%. You know, which it's not good. So as far as the slipping in the drink, we, it's a theory. I have nothing to dispute it, especially when we have a person who's not telling the truth. My question would always go back to why. Why is? I don't know.

Maybe because it's like, man, this girl's so extra right now. She's so like, let's calm her down a little bit. like let's get her a little chill. Not to mean like I'm going to hurt her. Now there are theories where Bridget was involved with something more malicious and we'll get into it. But if you're just looking at it at surface level, maybe Bridgett's like, yeah, you'd have to grind it up.

This girl's really annoying. Yeah, she's really annoying me right now. Like let me just give her something to chill her the hell out, right? Kind of thing. Or it could be exactly how it looks, right? Where Bridget's out there giving everybody's annex who asked for it. You know, anybody who wants a pill. Hey, we're all smoking.

We're all doing pills. I guess. But it's also very possible. But, you know, initially she says, I don't give it out to anyone. Then she says, I don't give it out to strange people. Yeah, yeah. Well, why the hell would you give it out to strange people? Like, why you just walking down the street handing out Xanax, like Tic Tacs?

Like, you want to, you get a Xanax, you get a Xanax. Weird. No credibility with Bridget at this point. Yeah. And this is where we're going to stop for today, obviously. But the twist do not stop coming. That's it. It's a short episode.

I know. It's long. I know. The twist do not stop coming in this case. What has been presented in a lot of media and to the public as a very sure. as a very straightforward and accidental death is going to, in my opinion, look less so as we go on unraveling the evidence and looking at these eyewitness testimonies. I'm using finger quotes if anybody was wondering because already we have so many inconsistencies, people being caught in in lies. And it doesn't matter what the lie was for.

If you had a bad intention or a good intention or if you're lying to cover up, whatever, you're still lying during a police investigation into someone's death. why would you do that? Nope, not smart. If it's something minor, like giving someone a pill or smoking a little weed, tell the truth because exactly what's occurring here with the GBI is what's going to occur. If they can prove that you're lying about that, they're going to assume that you'd lie about something more incriminating, something that could actually have some real repercussions.

So not good. When we're trying to verify that your stories are correct and that you have credibility when it comes to telling the truth, lying about something as minimal as, hey, I gave a friend a pill, Not good. I do not advise that. It's going to come back to bite you in the ass. But yeah, this is a fascinating case. It is by no way, shape, or form easy and just an easy solve of, hey, this was an accident, a tragic situation. There's so much going on here. At minimum, yeah, it's an accident where just a series of bad decisions led to something. I still have a hard time believing that even if this was an accident, right? Like, Tam's out there and she sits on the porch, the balcony. the wrong way and goes over that she was out there alone. And it's not just me saying that.

We have data suggesting that someone walked back inside. There's one thing we know, right, unless Tam opened the balcony door before falling off accidentally by herself. And then just said, wait, I forgot to fall. Yeah. Then without a doubt, someone was out there with her, period. So someone else more than likely was present for whatever happened to Tam. We have to find out who that person is. But it's a fascinating case. I understand why we're covering it. Can't wait to get into it next week.

That's going to do it for us, guys. This was a long one tonight. I think it was pretty quick moving, even though there was a lot to cover. I hope everybody was able to follow it. I look like I'm a serial killer at this point with my notes, but I'm going to try to decipher them

after we get off this episode. Again, congratulations to Kalin on winning the CrimeCon giveaway. We will be back next week with part two. Until then, everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you. soon. Bye.