Crime Weekly - S3 Ep152: Arne Johnson: Demonic Defense (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 20, 2023

In the darkest corners of the human psyche, evil can take root. It can lurk, hidden, waiting until it compels you to commit unspeakable acts. 'The Devil Made Me Do It' is a sinister tale of possession, exorcism, and a chilling courtroom battle. Join us as we delve into the abyss of the supernatural, where demons walk among us, and innocence is just a facade. Prepare yourself for a journey into the heart of darkness, if you dare... In 1981, 19-year-old Arne Cheyenne Johnson pleaded not guilty to the gruesome murder of his landlord and friend, 40 year old Alan Bono. Initially, the Brookfield Connecticut Police claimed the motive for this murder appeared to be connected to a jealous love triangle, but within days, a bizarre story began to emerge, told mostly by Ed and Lorraine Warren, self-professed demonologists. The Warren’s professed their belief that Arne had been possessed by an evil entity when he had stabbed Bono more than 20 times. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. ZocDoc Go to Zocdoc.com/CRIMEWEEKLY and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. 2. Babbel Here's a special, (limited time) deal for our listeners/viewers to get you started RIGHT NOW - get 55% off your Babbel subscription - but only for our listeners/viewers - at Babbel.com/CRIMEWEEKLY. 3. Prose Custom, made-to-order haircare from Prose has your name all over it. Take your FREE in-depth hair consultation and get 15% off your first order today! Go to Prose.com/crimeweekly. 4. Helix Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners! Go to HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly and use code HELIXPARTNER20. This is their best offer yet and it won’t last long! With Helix, better sleep starts now. 5. PrettyLitter Pretty Litter has the best litter I’ve ever used. You’ll love it, too. Go to PrettyLitter.com/crimeweekly and use code crimeweekly to save 20% on your FIRST order.

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek LeBasser. So today we are diving into the second and final part of the Arnie Johnson, the devil made me do it case. Are you ready for this? I am. I just wanted to mention, because I know I mentioned Crime Weekly News,

we don't have to go deep into it. For those of you who don't watch Crime Weekly News, you should be because we're on audio and video. But if you're not, we can all rest now. Stephanie has her criminal coffee merch. She's got her crop top. Everything's right with the world. I have a crop top in multiple different colors.

I mean, I was saying the J&R marketing heard you. They saw you. They have corrected it. I'm glad. I mean, I made a fuss. It looks great. And I wish I could say that's the first time I'm seeing it, but we've seen some of our supporters out there already had it.

Yeah, they were wearing them at CrimeCon, and I was like, oh, they do exist. It was like the Am like the amadam commercial they do exist well i'm glad you got it i'm rocking criminal coffee merch as well that was just a coincidence but anyways i just want to say we're good to go she has it we can all rest now all right so you're ready to dive in ready let's get right into it spooky time good reviews on last week's episode people love the trailer that you you helped put together with Shannon. People really like that. And they really like the episode.

That was fun to write, by the way. That was really fun to write. I felt like I was in my Goosebumps era. It was good. It was good. The response has been great. So thank you, everyone who's already checked it out. If you haven't, before you listen or watch this episode, make sure you go check out part one.

Yes. Okay. When we last left off, the family of 11-year-old David Glatzel believed he was possessed and that they had been tormented for weeks by whatever entities had invaded David and their home. The Glatzel family church, St. Joseph's, had notified the Bridgeport Diocese about this potential possession case and self-proclaimed demonologists Ed and Lorraine Warren had been brought in to help the family. By the end of the first week of August 1980, things with David Glatzel had become so bad that two priests from St. Joseph's had gone to the bishop and requested an exorcism, and on August 11th, the Warrens gave the priests evidence of David Glatzel being possessed in the form of tape recordings and photographs, along with their

letter of support saying they believed a supernatural phenomenon was occurring in the Glatzel home. On August 12th, David's older sister, Debbie, wrote in her journal, quote, David was laying on the living room floor. His body started rocking from side to side. Then his legs started moving up and down. I hung on to David's legs and I started to go up and down The Bridgeport Diocese assigned Father Francis Vergelak to the case. He was well-researched on the subject of demonology, and he had already met with Debbie, her mother Judy, and her fiancé Arnie Johnson, and as they were leaving the meeting, Vergelak blessed Arnie, who seemed the most affected by what was happening to David.

Arnie later reported that something strange had happened to him during the blessing, saying, quote, one thing struck me as being odd was that during the blessing my head was bowed and my eyes were closed, but I could feel the movements

of Father Vergelak's hand above my head, although he never touched me at all. End quote. Although they had never spoken a word to David about a potential exorcism

happening, not wanting to scare him, the demon inside of the boy seemed to know that it was in the cards, the demon inside of the boy seemed to know that it was in the cards, and the torment of David increased for the entire following weekend. Ed and Lorraine Warren remained at the Glatzel house as much as they could that weekend and reported seeing the demons using David as their plaything, even when he passed out from complete exhaustion. Ed Warren stated, quote, Lor quote. On August 17th, cracks developed in his skin from the swelling. It looked like David was going to explode. End

quote. On August 17th, Father Francis Vergelak met with the Warrens at the Glatzel's Brookfield, Connecticut home to come up with an exorcism plan. The Warrens felt that they were dealing with a clear-cut case of demonic possession and suggested a major exorcism, but Father Vergelak felt it would be better if they started with a minor exorcism, with plans to move forward with a major one if he felt it was necessary. According to the Catholic Church, exorcism is defined as the act of driving out or warding off demons or evil spirits from persons, places, or things which are believed to be possessed or infested by them or liable to become victims or instruments of their malice. And most people don't know, but there are two types of exorcisms.

A minor exorcism does not deal with the full possession of a person by a demon, but with the expulsion of evil spirits that are trying to negatively influence a person. These minor exorcisms are performed every time a child or adult is baptized into the Catholic church, and they occur regularly.

A major or solemn exorcism is only performed when a person is found unequivocally to have been possessed by a demon. They can also only be performed with the permission of the local bishop, and they can only be done by a priest who's trained in major exorcisms. And these exorcisms are very rare and may take months or even a full year to be performed because many things have to happen beforehand, such as a proper medical evaluation and a lot of paperwork, a lot of red tape. Now, this first minor exorcism took place at the Glatzel home on August 20th, 1980 at 3 p.m., and it was conducted by Father Vergelach and two other priests. In the aftermath, it seemed like the ritual had been successful.

Lorraine Warren claimed it felt as if the heavy atmosphere had been lifted and they could all feel a difference. She said she was able to tell the priest that there were no longer any spirits in the house, but this did not mean that they had been expelled permanently, only that they had withdrawn for the moment. For several days, the Glatzels enjoyed the peace of a demon-free home, but by August 25th, that peace was shattered. The entity was back and angrier than ever, and that anger seemed to be directed towards Arnie Cheyenne Johnson, who the demon threatened to kill. One night, Arnie prevented David from stabbing his brother Alan with a knife, and according to the Glatzel family, David turned on Arnie and screamed

that he would possess him for interfering. Debbie Glatzel would later say, quote, that night after the knife incident, Arnie was sitting with my parents and me at the kitchen table. Suddenly, out of nowhere, he started to go through these ugly convulsions like David used to get when he first came under possession. When the shaking was over, Arnie's face was distorted looking and his features were drawn back, bonyony-like into an animal sneer. His eyes were glassy and wild. Then a growling sound came out of him. Oh my God, I said, now it's happening to Arnie, end quote. Another exorcism took place on September 8th. This is where the first exorcism took place. Okay. And it's an exorcism that I'll never forget. The

first one actually was in the convent. Mm-hmm. And that was not successful. It was that morning when David came out of possession and would not get into the car. He ran away from his family. He had a knife. He actually tried to kill his mother and his grandmother. And this is not David, David was a very complacent child, very docile and when I walked in, he was laying on the bed in a fetus position

this priest was standing alongside of him and I said to the priest don't stand so close because he had a bad habit of taking his fist and just hitting you. The priest backed up, and suddenly that boy rose up out of the bed very swiftly, landed on the floor, ran into a bathroom, and locked the door. He would not come out. Hysterical laughter came from the bathroom.

Finally, we broke the door. We got him out of there we brought him to the convent at st. Joseph's where the exorcism was performed on September 9th the birthday of the Blessed Mother so yes September 8 and we felt that this would be successful and he told us that what they called the Beast which was seen many times in the house and out in the grounds, was back at the house. Now, is this one of the priests that was in the house? That's the exorcist. He was the exorcist.

Yes, he was. And he was very, very badly affected by this case. In what way? Mr. Glatzel there, as big as he is, looks like Grizzly Adams, could not hold that boy down alone. Oh, no, he couldn't hold him at all. There were sometimes, as I said, four and five men that would have to hold this boy down. Okay, let's get into that just a little bit if we could. Here's a picture of him.

Yes, coming out of possession. He's crying and he's holding on to his mother. That is what he would do, Tony, all the time. Would you say, in your professional opinion, that he was possessed by a devil or a demon or what would it be exactly? He was possessed by devils. Now, Tony, after the exorcism had been performed there, they knew they couldn't do it anymore. There was so much noise and so much violence during that exorcism that it was even heard in the elementary Catholic school. The doors in back of the church would open and close. The pews were actually moving which are bolted down. Hymn books that were in the

seats next to us flew off the seats. The boy broke away from two of us and attacked the priest. And attacked the priest. All right. So we just heard from our friends, Ed and Lorraine, obviously, and they feel like more could have been done. And I'm just going to come back down to earth here because I feel like, you know, I'm open to this. I'm listening to it.

And I go back and forth throughout this episode, but just these first couple parts, okay? There's part of me that believes that someone could potentially believe they're possessed, but in reality, there's some underlying mental illness. The argument against that and what I'm fighting with right now is that mental illness is not contagious, right? So if you have David, who even though he's a young boy, if there's something going on internally, and again, this was a while ago, so not everything has been diagnosed like it is today. There's not as many medications available

to treat these things or even just the resources to treat it, right? And so he could have gone undiagnosed and maybe had something that if it happened today, he could have been treated for, right? Yeah. But even if that were the case, it wouldn't translate over to Arnie Johnson, right? It wouldn't be something that just by him being in the presence of David, he would

he would inherently take on that same illness. Like that's not how it works. So I have a hard time with that one. And also Arnie is not a family member of David. He's not like actually related to him, like through genetics. Yeah. So it couldn't be a hereditary thing either.

Right. So it's really fascinating to me to have this happen. And then you add in the equation that there's multiple people like Ed and Lorraine. I always approach them with a little bit of skepticism because as I've said before, in other cases that we've worked, whenever you have someone, a witness, if you will, giving a statement when they have incentive to say one thing or the other, you always have to approach that through a certain lens where you question everything they say and the motives behind why they're saying. I think that's okay.

But when you have family members making a statement like they just made about sitting at the table with Arnie and seeing this with her own eyes, that's concerning. That's concerning because, again, what would be the incentive for her to make this up? What would be the incentive for her to make this up? What would be the incentive for her to make this up? She doesn't want her fiance to go to prison for murder. Okay. So you're saying that that is a great point. This is after the fact. Yeah.

So like you look at her diary and you look at like the fact that, yeah, stuff, shit was going down with David before Arnie killed Alan Bono, right? Correct. Yep. Was it just a convenient sort of like excuse because they already kind of like really legitimately thought David was possessed where they were like, okay, we'll just say Arnie is possessed or they convinced themselves that Arnie must have been possessed

because why would he do something like this otherwise? Because they were actually like in a place where they thought that this demonic possession thing was possible. Okay, it's a great point. And it's something I didn't think of, but I see where you're going there. And so my now, and if I'm not understanding you correctly, please correct me. But what you're saying is maybe there is a world where for not to, if we take, you know, the paranormal hat off for a second, and we don't believe that there's an actual ghost that's following them around from house to house. What? Demon. You're right. I apologize. I stand corrected already.

A demon, right? If you're under the belief that this is all a fallacy, it's not real. And so there could be a world where maybe David did have an underlying mental disorder, right? And because of that convenient situation, they parlayed that into a defense for Arnie later. So one thing could be true, and it could be a situation where I just negated it all, where David could have had something going on internally that wasn't diagnosed properly, and therefore they just used it as an excuse, as in a defense for Arnie later in life. Is that what you're is that what you're throwing down here yeah i kind of feel like they probably did legitimately believe that david was

being like invaded by demons i agree i agree because they're contacting the church they're writing about it before long before arnie kills alan bono and then when he does kill alan bono it's almost like one of two things happens. Debbie Glatzel is like, oh, shit, I love this man. I can't have him going to prison. So we can just say that the demon invaded him. Or she legitimately thought that the demon must have invaded him because she truly believed it was happening to David. And she convinced herself of that because it was a convenient narrative as opposed to the fact that you're in love with a man who just murdered somebody in front of your eyes. I gotcha. So she's putting two and two together herself. She's doing

the math saying, oh, he must have been possessed, even though she doesn't have anything substantial. She's deluding herself into thinking that possibly, or it was just an easy and convenient scapegoat. Yeah. I would love to know the details as far as when David, you know, when Arnie stopped David from stabbing the other child, I believe you said it was another child. Alan, yeah. When he stopped him and Arnie said, and David said, you know, you're going to pay for that. The demon's going to, you know, take your body over. Who heard that? So Debbie, Judy, you know know stuff like that and and apparently

the demon inside of david was always threatening arnie like i'm gonna kill you i'm you're gonna pay for this i'm gonna get you stop interfering because arnie was always the one who was like there my question would be was this documented before he killed someone right was this documented somewhere by ed lorraine by anybody where there'd be proof that this wasn't revised? And he had gotten a silver crucifix from Father Virgalak. And Father Virgalak was like, okay, when David starts acting up, you know, or the demon inside David starts acting up, press this to his forehead, use the holy water. And if it doesn't expel what's in him, at least it will like weaken them long enough for him to stop causing chaos for a minute and you can get him under control. So when Arnie was doing this, David in this audio tape was like saying, I'm going to kill you, like, you know, swearing, saying things like that. So, yeah. Was he saying anything like I'm going to possess Arnie, like specifically? Yes. Allegedly. That is that is what. That'd be interesting, right? The papers of that time, because, man, I went through newspapers.com.

I love newspapers.com, by the way. I love it. It's great. It's amazing. They were not sponsored by them, but they're great. I went through it every month for through the time of the murder until and through the trial so I could read all the reports. And I went through day by freaking day because there was papers all over the place. And yes, according to the lawyer, according to the Warrens, and in a minute when we

come back from break, I'm going to play you a clip of an exorcism and or, you know, part of David being possessed that the Warrens got on an audio tape. And apparently there was many hours of these kinds of tapes. There was, I think, 150 or 200 pictures that they had taken. So this was documented before the murder, allegedly. Let's take the break. We'll be right back. All right. So we're back and I want to set the table because a question that I have that I've written down, maybe we'll answer tonight. Maybe we won't. Are we only doing two parts or is there one more part? No, this is it.

Yeah. Okay. So we're going to either answer this tonight or we're not. But I'm really curious, right? David had all these issues that he was going through. And I'm really interested to find out that once Arnie was quote unquote possessed, I got that in air quotes for everyone on audio, was David suddenly healed? Did David have any more issues?

Yes. Okay. And we're going to talk about that, yeah. And I want to dive into it. Let's wait till we get there. But just my understanding is the demon can't possess two people at once. Well, there's 43 demons.

Okay. So did you forget that? Oh, Jesus. They're right. There's right. There's 43 demons. Never mind. All right.

We'll just keep going. But I would think that if one demon left, so another one jumped into David at that point. Okay. You would think, right? You might be losing me, but let's keep going. Let's keep going. I mean, I'm sorry that there's 43 demons. There's 43 demons.

Yeah. All right. Well, that's, can't get rid of all of them you can't so they just switched over i mean one dove into arnie all right all right all right so what we're about to play for you is actual audio from you know this david glatzel being possessed and what he's saying, beware. It is, you know, whether or not it's real, I can tell you anytime I hear any audio of these exorcisms. Annalise Michelle was another one. I'm not, you know, the exorcism of, you know, the what is the movie, the exorcism of Annalise or something?

It's either way. I don't. You don't know that movie. Well, it's a movie based on like a real German girl who was possessed and she died during one of the many exorcisms that was performed on her. But the audio from her exorcisms is chilling, chilling. And so every time I hear an audio from an exorcism or something like that, it just really does not sit well with me. So this is not for the faint of heart. Just keeping that in mind.

So we're going. You're weak. Ryan, darling, darling. Get this kid out. Break him out of it. Wrap him up. Do something. He won't get out of it right now, Ma. He told me there ain't gonna be nothing now. What do you think he's been doing all this time? In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. You gotta hold him down. He told me to.

Hold him down. David, Mom is here. Mom is here. Come on, wake up. Come on the mommy's arm. David, mommy's here. Mommy's here. Come on, wake up. Come on, get up. Come on, let's go. Get out of this. Get out of my son.

Get out of my son. Come on. Come on, son. Son, get up. Get away from my son. No! I'm your mother. David, David.

Wake up. Get up. Get up, boyo. Get up, David. Wake up. Get up. Get up, David. He's a holy one. He loves you. He loves you. In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

You can't see the message. We've got to get out of here. I'm doing it. David, just get up. My God, get up. Was that laughing at the end no what was that at the end it was like screaming it was terrifying whether it whether it's whether it's a possession or just like the kids going through something it's terrifying to listen to you think it's real i'm saying man well it they sound they're not like trained actors.

There's a little bit of music behind it, which obviously isn't real, but that's for like effect. But you have to kind of like weed that out. The voice that you heard in the beginning when he was like, leave this child alone. That's Arnie Johnson. Damn. Terrifying. I hate that. I do not like it.

You can hear him like growling and shit, right? And his mother's like, I'm your mother. Get out of my son. I do not like it. I know. You can hear him growling and shit, right? And his mother's like, I'm your mother. Get out of my son. Get out of my son. And I do not like that I'm in this dark warehouse by myself. I don't, do not like it. I could have gone without listening to that. I told you, I don't mess with these things, man. I just don't want to know. I just don't want to find out. You know what I mean? If I'm wrong and they do exist, I'm not going to be that guy. So that's why I'm like, Hey, listen, it's very possible. And, but I also think you could listen to that. And if you told me this was someone who was suffering from some mental disorder and you played that exact clip without the music behind it, I'd be like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. I get it.

Really? I wouldn't. Have you ever seen somebody with a mental disorder behave like that? I mean, maybe, I don't know. I got to tell what, the things that I've seen with people who are suffering from something or on a drug or something like that, when we go to the scene, unbelievable. The things that humans can do, especially when they're on a narcotic. He's 11, dude, and he's not on no narcotic. No, he isn't. I'm saying, but I've seen things where the mind's not right. I've seen women who are a hundred pounds soaking wet on something that we don't even know at the time. And they've lifted up three or four guys that are trying to hold her down to restrain her. And she's lifted them up like they were nothing. It's unbelievable. But he's not on anything and he's 11 and you can hear them saying, hold him down, hold him down. I'm not saying he's on

something, but if he's not mentally right, well, it's a chemical imbalance in their brain that's causing them to act that way when they're under narcotics. So if he has a chemical imbalance, even if it's not due to a outside substance, he could still be in a position where because he's not functioning correctly, he's able to do things that he wouldn't be able to normally do under a different circumstance i'm just saying it could be a world where this could still be a mental disorder where he's just really in a bad position and he's unable to control his bodily functions and he's in pain he might literally be in pain or feel or at least feel or believe he's in pain. I guess. I don't know. I'm just playing both sides here. I don't want to even say devil's advocate because that's not good for this.

Right. You know what I mean? Like, that's my saying, but I'm trying, you know. I'm just playing the devil's advocate. And they're like, what? The demons are like, what'd you just say? You know, I'm good. The demons are like, you're our advocate?

Open yourself to us. Exactly. It doesn't really work for tonight's episode. But yeah, no, that's at minimum just listening to it. advocate open yourself to us exactly it doesn't really work for tonight's episode but yeah no that's at minimum just listening to it i don't if it's real i don't think the kid's making it up for attention he's going through something for sure if everything else is real and this isn't staged then that's it's that kid sounds like he's really david sounds like he's really experiencing something that I wouldn't wish on anybody, whatever it is. Yeah, I just, I mean, so what I'm saying is the people in that room with David clearly believe he's possessed by a demon.

He's kind of acting like somebody who would be possessed by a demon in the traditional way that we know possessed people to behave. We've all seen The Exorcist, which happened to come out just a few years before this case. And it's just hard to listen to and understand that this was a real person going through this. The people around him clearly thought that he was actually possessed and would that be enough to then follow with, okay, well, Arnie must be possessed then. I think so. If you believe one person's possessed, it's not a quick, it's not a hard jump to believe somebody else would be. I agree with that. I completely agree. If you're under that, if you're working under that assumption, yeah. Especially like you said a couple minutes ago there's 43

demons there's plenty of demons that go around for everybody but it also makes me wonder like why wouldn't they just possess everybody in that house and have control of the house why are you all in one boy man you don't need to all be there why don't you just go in all of them have a demon house party right i i mean i i just don't it some of it doesn't make sense you know if they're going to do it and they have the ability to do it, why wouldn't they just go all out? Why aren't you out on the town just possessing as many people as you can? Yeah. Knocking on doors.

That's what the devil would want to do, right? To announce your presence. Yeah. Knock three times. Yeah. People got to kick out of that. I saw somebody in the comment was like, somebody in the comment section was like, Derek, I feel you, but like a demon has knocked three times on my door before.

Okay. So I believe. Oh, I didn't see that comment. I saw people being like, yeah, like, isn't the whole point of like being a demon to be discreet? Like that's the advantage of being a demon. You can walk around and be unnoticed and you're like, hey, I'm here. Like, come on.

Well, they don't walk. They fly. Well, I mean, they're knocking on doors. They could be walking. They're floating. They can walk through the door, but they got to knock on Like, come on. Well, they don't walk. They fly. Well, I mean, they're knocking on doors. They could be walking. They're floating. They can walk through the door, but they got to knock on it? Come on. No, they have to get in.

They have to get in somehow. But that's beside the point. I would think they'd have to be accepted or like invited in just by knocking. It's like someone, if I'm a human being, if I knock on your door, can I just come in? That's just demon rules? Hey, as long as I knock, I can come in. If it was unlocked, yes come in that's just demon rules i mean as long as i knock i can come in if it was unlocked yes you absolutely that's demon rules if you leave your door unlocked and i knock even if you don't say come in i can come in because i was polite i really hope to god don't you dare say what i think you might say i hope you hope to god you're not in your apartment tonight

just sitting there watching reality television working on your laptop said a lot of mean things to me but this is the worst what would you do i'm moving out you would i'm moving out i'll be knocking on your door the next time i come to rhode island i'm gonna show up and just knock three times i'll be knocking on your door tonight i'm gonna hear you inside scuttling around You're not going to answer. Move over. Slumber party. I'm going to hear you inside scuttling around. Nope.

I'm shooting through the door. So don't make fun of the three knocks. Don't make fun of it because you know that would be terrifying. Yeah, three knocks and three bullets through the door. That's what's happening. No, don't shoot through the door. That's what's happening. It's me. If the demon's on the other side, he ain't going to be happy. That's what's happening. It's me.

If the demon's on the other side, he ain't going to be happy. The bullets aren't going to do anything to the demon, man. They're going to mess me up, though. Whoever's over there, not going to go well. How bad would you feel if you just opened the door thinking you were victorious taking out the demon and I'm just laying there? No, man. I ain't messing around with this. Derek, help me.

You shouldn't have knocked three times. Don't worry. The demon will help you. Better hope nobody that comes to your house knocks three times, man, or they're getting it. Let all the Amazon drivers know your neighbors, your family.

Just knock on the door and you see me jumping the fence in the backyard. He's like scaling the building. He's gone. We're Derek. I'm Joe. All right. he's gone we're derrick i'm for joe all right he's gone all right we are fine people are like get on with the episode nah not because we painted a great picture because i could literally see you scaling the building i'm not joking yeah would be out. I know you're not. I'm good. I know. All right. So overall, allegedly, and keep in mind, this is Arnie Johnson and the Glatzels and the Warrens retelling of this. Okay.

All in all, three minor exorcisms were performed and apparently they'd been successful in expelling the spirits from David's body, but they hadn't left the area. As David claimed, he could still see them and feel them around him. And they were no longer focused only on David, but whomever was in the vicinity. Ed Warren said, quote, after the September exorcism, a backlash of intimidating phenomena was directed at all of us, including the clergy. Imagine waking up to find your bed pillow soaked with blood. That's what happened to one of the priests. The blood squished when I turned my head. It was all over my face, he told us. The beast entity in black form repeatedly confronted another one of the priests.

The clergy suffered intense driving headaches. One began to lose his speaking voice. Another was so upset that he was put on medication. The priests were never left alone, end quote. And it seemed that one or more of the entities had made Arnie Johnson their new home. During mass one Sunday, Arnie lost control, using bad language out loud while all others in the church sat with their heads bowed, listening to the sermon. Later, Arnie reported, while the mass was going on, I couldn't believe my eyes. One of the spirits I had seen, all black with arms and legs, was on the altar with the priest while he was doing the ceremony. It was mimicking the priest's actions behind him. The next thing I knew, I was standing outside of the church with Debbie, who was asking me why I did it. I didn't know what she was talking about.

End quote. Debbie did remember what her fiance had done, stating, quote, he seemed to be in a trance. After a few more choice things were said, I had to hustle him out of the door. Arnie apologized all day long, but he never knew what happened to him. It was pathetic. The figure just made a fool out of Arnie in front of the community, end quote. Damn, she's a savage. It was pathetic. Yo, if I was her fiance, I'd be like, I was possessed. It wasn't me. I'm not pathetic. I mean, imagine if we could all just go that I was possessed.

Allegedly, the demon taunted Arnie after this, telling him he would be caught for a crime and his life would be ruined. And then rattling off a list of names that Arnie and the Glatzels would not understand until months later when Arnie was on trial for murder. Allegedly, the names belonged to lawyers and court officials in the case. After the exorcisms in September were completed, Father Vergelac was sent to Rome, and the Brookfield diocese closed their file on the possession case, feeling that since David was no longer being tormented, the job had been done. On October 14th, Arnie's mother, Mary Johnson, took her three girls out of the rented Newtown house after the children fell victim to accident after accident. Mary reported that they had all been seeing, hearing, and feeling odd and scary things, but they were also turning on each other, their behavior becoming argumentative and aggressive. At the end of November, Arnie and Debbie left the Glatzel home when Debbie

got a new dog grooming job at the Brookfield Kennels on Route 7, managed by Alan Bono. Alan Bono grew up in New York City and attended Iona College in New Rochelle, New York. After college, he became a world traveler, visiting Europe and the Far East before ending up in Australia, where he worked as a manager of several plantations. He'd been living in Australia for the past 17 months when his sister Virginia asked him to go to Connecticut and manage the Brookfield Kennels. This was a business she owned. Now, Bono didn't know anything about running a kennel. He didn't even like animals, so he was quick to offer Debbie Glatzel the job, which came along with a free apartment in a block of four units that he also managed right next to the kennel. Things seemed to be looking up for the young couple, who now had two steady incomes and a place of their own, and they really liked Alan Bono, who had his issues, but he was friendly and gregarious with them. Debbie said, quote,

Alan wasn't married and ate in restaurants almost all the time. He liked to take people out and buy them lunch just to have company. He was lonely and melancholy, too. He talked about death every day. Arnie and I made friends with him just so that he would have friends, but he was a very heavy drinker and alcoholic. His drinking impaired any ability he might have had to run the kennels, which he hated.

The animals were completely ignored. Expensive boarded pets got no food or water, even no heat. Some died, end quote. Now, once again, I don't know if this is true. Did that animals die? You know, I don't know. I don't know. It's just something she told the paper.

It could be completely false. I don't know. I don't know. It's just something she told the paper. It could be completely false. I don't know if anybody checked. You know, journalism in the 1980s was similar to journalism now. Not great. Nobody's really doing their fact checking. and consuming everything that's coming out of what Debbie's saying, which is most of this was relayed to us through the media after Arnie stabbed Alan. And so you have to question why this is being said now, right? Why wasn't this said before? And you could say, oh, it wasn't noteworthy enough to mention it, but she could be telling the truth, right? It's 50-50 here. She could be telling the truth. And now she's explaining how they got to where they are up this narrative for this defense for Arnie because she loves him. And it might not even be completely manufactured. It could be a situation like you said, where she's doing the math herself. She's seeing what happened to David, not understanding what it really was, if it wasn't a possession, knowing how much involved Arnie was and some of the things that were said at how much involved Arnie was in some of

the things that were said at the time when Arnie was heavily involved with the exorcism and all these other things. And that's how she's, that's how she's justifying or understanding why someone she loves so much would be capable of doing something like this, where in most cases you have a loved one, you know, who's got, you have significant others who come out and go, I never understood, you know, how we got here because when I was with this person, they were great, but they didn't have a situation like this with David that would explain it. So they just take it for what it is. And that's that this person was a monster all along and somehow they were able to keep it under wraps for a long period of time. So there could be a few different versions going on here.

It's up to you to decide what you want to believe. I mean, it's not, I don't know. Is it what we want to believe? Well, I'm saying, you know, overall, how you're interpreting all this. Is it something where it's for defense? Is it something where she truly believes it because she's putting it all together herself? Or was this actually a possession where Arnie's body was taken over by a demon and caused him to do this? That's really your three scenarios.

You pick your poison. Literally. Well, Alan Bono, he had lived a colorful life full of travel and exotic places, and he liked to regale his new tenants with stories about himself, the places he had seen and the things he had done. And Arnie and Debbie didn't know it, but they were not free of the evil that had wormed its way into their lives. According to the Glatzels, between November and January, Arnie was possessed several more times, during which he was a completely different person,

filled with rage, even punching a hole through a wall one time. Well, and that could go back to just who he is as a person or something that was taking over his behavior. Like I said, you guys are right along with us. We still have a lot more to go here. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll continue going with it and maybe get some more clarification on who Arnie Johnson was

and where to believe this whole thing. We'll be right back. So on the evening of February 15th, Arnie and Debbie picked up Arnie's two sisters and his cousin from Bridgeport, where Mary Johnson and the girls were now living after fleeing the possessed haunted Newtown home. Arnie's sisters were 15-year-old Wanda, 13-year-old Janice, and his cousin was 9-year-old Mary. The children did not have school the next day, so they were planning to spend the night with Arnie and Debbie. The next morning, February 15th, Arnie woke up as usual to go to his job as a tree surgeon at Wright Tree Services, but that morning he felt ill. His head was pounding, his stomach felt queasy, his throat was sore, and he

had a rattling cough, so he called in sick to work. He slept for a few hours while Debbie brought the girls to the kennel with her so they could watch her work and play with the dogs. Arnie woke up a little bit after 10, feeling somewhat run down but good enough to move around, and he walked over to the kennels to join the girls as they watched Debbie groom a black poodle. At some point, Alan Bono joined their little group, and according to Debbie, he was already drunk by 11 a.m. When Debbie finished working on the poodle, Alan invited them all out for lunch at a nearby bar called Mug and Munch. Debbie said they all had hamburgers and Cokes,

except for Alan, who was drinking wine as if it was water. Bono invited Arnie and Debbie to share a drink with him, and at first they declined, as neither were big drinkers, but Alan insisted, so finally the couple agreed to have a glass of wine each. After lunch, they stopped at a local pet supply store to pick up some things that the kennels were low on, and Debbie claims that while they were there, a big parrot flew over and perched on Arnie's shoulder and it wouldn't leave. It remained there the whole time they were in the store. Once back at the kennels, Arnie repaired

Alan Bono's stereo, which I guess hadn't been working. And when it was fixed, he went to lay down for a bit because he was still not feeling good while Alan Bono kept drinking. Reportedly, at the time of his death, Alan Bono's blood alcohol level was three times the legal limit. So it was around six that night when Alan invited them all up to his apartment, which was located above the kennels. He turned the television on and it blared through the small apartment. And then, according to Debbie, Bono got mad because the television reception wasn't great. So he started like punching his fist into his hand repeatedly. And then he punched the

wall next to the TV. So Debbie, sensing that her landlord was not in a great state of mind, she told the three young girls it was time to go. And they all went downstairs and outside to the driveway. But Bono followed. Alan Bono grabbed nine-year-old Mary's arm and refused to let go. Arnie demanded that Bono release Mary, but the older man didn't listen. Fifteen-year-old Wanda Johnson would later testify, quote, all of a sudden, it just broke. I can't explain it. It just broke. That's all. End quote. Wanda said she heard Arnie growling like an animal. She tried to move him as the other two girls ran to the car, but he wouldn't budge. He was like stone.

As Debbie Glatzel moved to get in between Arnie and Alan, Wanda saw something shiny flash through the air before she claims, it just stopped. Arnie then grew very still and walked away, heading for the woods as if in a trance, and Alan Bono fell forward, lying motionless on the ground. Next to his body was a five-inch tree surgeon's knife with a foldable blade that Arnie always had in his pocket, and there was blood on the blade. Detective John Lucas of the Brookfield Police Department revealed that when they arrived at the Brookfield kennels, they found four people huddled in the driveway over Bono's body, Arnie's two sisters,

his cousin, and Debbie Glatzel. When officers checked the body, they detected a faint pulse, and an ambulance was on the scene by 7 p.m., but sadly, Alan Bono was pronounced dead at Danbury Hospital at 7.39 p.m. that night, right around the same time that his assailant was apprehended. Arnie Johnson had been walking in the woods beside Silverman Road, not far from the Glatzel home. When the police approached him, he made no statement about the crime. He was taken to the police station where he was charged with murder and his bond was set at $125,000. Okay. Hmm. Sounds like a fight going wrong to me on the surface. And I will say also, and I have to start being a little bit of a naysayer here because we're getting, we're about halfway through this and I got to be honest with you guys. So it's one of those things where Arnie, he's been drinking a little bit, right?

He had a few drinks. Stop me if I'm wrong. Alan had a few drinks. Allegedly one glass of wine and Alan drank quite a bit, allegedly. Okay. All right. So there's, it appears to me that there was a disturbance. There's an altercation where Alan puts his hands on a kid, allegedly, which he shouldn't have done.

Arnie hears this commotion. A nine-year-old, yeah. That's not going to make anybody happy. Couple that with some alcohol. He's always had this knife on him. This isn't something just grabbed a kitchen knife out of the, out of the kitchen, you know, butcher block and walked out there and stabbed him with Alan's own knife. He's always carried around a knife. And what do you carry a knife around for? You could cut open boxes or whatever, but I will tell you most of the time. It's a tree surgeon's knife. So he was a landscaper and he worked for a tree service.

So that's why he had it, you know, if you're, yeah. But why are you carrying it when you're not working? Well, I mean, he was supposed to work that day. So maybe's why he had it. Yeah. But why are you carrying it when you're not working? Well, I mean, he was supposed to work that day. So maybe he just had it in his pocket. He got up, got dressed for work, realized he felt sick and then laid back down. I don't know. And by the way, nothing wrong with it. If it's illegally within the lengths that you're allowed to carry, there's nothing wrong with having a knife for self-defense. But my point being, he hears something, he comes out there, There's an altercation. He stabs Alan, realizes what he's done, and flees the area into the woods. And that's something that a human being would do when they just killed someone.

Not necessarily what a demon would do. Well, he walked away slowly as if in a train. That's what they say. That's what they say. And I would say if I were there, it probably looked more like a trot. Like, oh shit, I gotta go. That's how I would say it was probably when I was there. Because I don't think a demon, if it were a demon, would flee the area.

I think a demon would just leave the body at that point. Arnie would come out of his trance and be like, what the hell just happened? What have I done? While he still got the knife in his hand and he would drop it. That's the movie side of me where I, I see like him coming out of whatever he was under and not even remembering what happened and just still standing there for police to come up and him going, oh my God, I don't even know what happened. I don't even remember any of this.

I don't see the demon. Well, that's what he did when, yeah, when he got to the police station, that's when he, he took off first. And then when he got to the police station, he was like, I don't remember what happened. That's, and that's a problem for me. That's a problem for me because now he's had time to think, what direction am I going to go here? You know, how am I going to justify this? And there is a potential that as he had time walking around, he was going to go with this possession angle because that's really all he had. And then once he says that to the police,

it gets back to the family and they could be playing along with it. And they may, again, to be fair to them, they may have interpreted him leaving the area as this, this walk off, but I more so think it was like, oh shit, I gotta go. Cops are going to be coming soon. But that's my thoughts right now. I'm not going to. It sounds to me like a pretty normal thing that I've seen in law enforcement, which is, you know, kids are involved or whatever. There's a fight. Two guys get into an altercation. One guy has a knife and one guy ends up getting stabbed. of the Glatzel family and what they experienced from June of 1980 to February of 1981, and begin talking about the on-the-record information. Of course, there's still going to be some speculation and some hearsay in here, but for the most part, we're going to be talking about stuff that's on the record. So Police Chief John Anderson would tell the Washington Post, quote,

It was not an unusual crime. Somebody got angry. An argument resulted. But we couldn't have a simple, uncomplicated murder. Oh, no. Instead, everyone in the whole world converges on Brookfield. I'm trying to be very objective to keep an open mind. I can't say it didn't happen.

End quote. And Sergeant John Lucas, who was assigned to the case, said, quote, As a basic religious precept, it's all possible. In this case, I'm just not sure. I'm keeping an open mind. Quote, Chief Anderson had looked at the evidence provided by the Warrens, tape recordings and photos. But he did say that when the Warrens had contacted him the October before, they had indeed predicted there was the potential for a great deal of violence that they wanted law enforcement to be aware of, but they had not mentioned Arnie Johnson. It had been David Glatzel they were worried about. The police had several different reasons for why they thought this murder had happened, and initially, none of them had to do with the devil. Alan Bono grabbing

Mary, Arnie's cousin, was one of the motives. There also may have been an argument about payment for the stereo repair, but the third motive was one we are all familiar with, a love triangle. During the three months that Debbie and Arnie had lived at the Brookfield Kennels, they had become very close to Bono. They had even talked about opening a pet store together. And Debbie's mother, Judy, had been overheard more than once, saying there ought to be more men like Alan Bono. Mary Johnson, Arnie's mother, said she felt as if she knew Bono because Arnie talked about him so much,

and her son had often told her that Alan Bono was a wonderful man. The Brookfield police had suspected that there may have been more between Alan and Debbie Glatzel than just friendship or a professional relationship, something Debbie always denied, saying, quote, They say we must have been having a love affair. If that was the case, everybody was in love with Alan. He could make friends with anybody. End quote.

Even though she earlier said that they only were friends with him because he had no friends and he was lonely, but now he can make friends with anybody. So what's the story, Debbie? Also, it's kind of weird. You know, I don't know. I won't go even go down that road. It just, yeah, these things make the kind of weird you know i don't know i won't go even go down that road it just yeah these things make the kind of fill out the picture now it doesn't necessarily mean they're true but if they

were it would explain why maybe arnie was so upset with alan for something that clearly you should never put your hands on a child especially not your own child but could that have been the the tip of the you know what do you call it? The tip of the iceberg or the tip of the ice? What am I trying to say? Or like the catalyst, you know, like just everything's building up. It gives more context. Yeah. What is the phrase I'm looking for now though? Now everyone's in the comments right now. The straw that broke the camel's back. I think the phrase I was looking for that doesn't really apply was the tip of the iceberg. Like that was just the start of things, which doesn't apply to what I was trying to say, because that would mean that the worst part would blow up.

That's not where an iceberg starts, yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I think I screwed that one up. But yeah, there we go. Well, check this out. We would also discover that Debbie had not met Arnie for the first time when she'd moved in with his mother. In fact, she had met him in 1974 when she was 19 and he was 12.

Okay. Apparently, Debbie had knocked over a magazine display in the supermarket and Arnie, who was there with his mother, walked over and helped her get everything picked up. And then Debbie made friends with mary johnson they became friends and then you know later she moved in with her which is weird it's weird that you met your fiance the man that you are intimate with when he was 12 yeah i i feel like that's i'm not condoning it but i feel like maybe that's happened before. What? Like people, like maybe there wasn't a sexual attraction at that point, but you met a kid earlier in life and one was older, one was younger. And it wasn't until much later when it was legal that you got together.

Now, the argument could be made. I've been making a lot of arguments tonight that she was into him at that age and just waited. I'm not even saying that. What are you saying? I'm saying like, okay, let's say i run into a kid in the magazine store yeah when he's 12 and i'm 19 got it and then i don't see him at all for like the next hopefully at least six years 10 years okay okay and then i meet him and then we like have an attraction we're talking and then he's like oh i saw a girl in a girl in a convenience store who knocked over a magazine rack. It looked just like you.

And I was like, oh, my God, that was me. Right. And then it's like, oh, this is crazy. But if I've known this child since he was 12 up until the point that he was 18 or 19 and then we started dating, but I've known him the whole time. That's weird. That's weird. I'm not saying it's not weird but i think that story has been played out before i think other people other relationships have done it which probably have been judged as well you know that's freaking weird i'm sorry

because then like i'll always know you like i'll remember you as like that child it's like if i baby if i was like um 19 and i was babysitting a 12 year old and then I was like babysitting you for years and then all of a sudden we're like engaged. Yeah, I'm not saying I'm not. I'm not agreeing with it. I'm with you. All right. So the police would later say that in the three weeks after Alan Bono's murder, they conducted 18 in-depth interviews. And in some of those interviews were the four people who had witnessed the crime, who were interviewed separately, and who at the time, their stories all lined up. On February 27th, 1981, the Hartford Courant reported that the Bridgeport Diocese had assigned Father Francis Vergelak to investigate the possibility of diabolical possession in David Glatzel, according to Nicholas Greco, director of communications for the diocese. Greco also said that this was the first time in his knowledge that the diocese had assigned an investigator to such a case. The media tried to reach Vergelak for comment, but he was out of the country at the

time and he had not yet reported the findings of his investigation to the diocese. The diocese admitted to having performed an exorcism, but they said, we only did like one or two, and they weren't formal ones. They were just, you know, your basic run-of-the-mill exorcisms. In fact, Greco claimed that a formal or solemn exorcism was never even requested, even though the Warrens and the Glatzels said they were full of shit. Like, they absolutely asked for a formal exorcism. Ed and Lorraine Warren were also interviewed and they told the press that they did not believe Arnie was possessed any longer, but he could be taken over again at any time. And Lorraine said, quote, the demon used Arnie to achieve its goal. It wanted to really destroy this young man's life. End quote. The Warrens,

along with the Glatzel family, disagreed with the diocese about whether or not a formal exorcism had been requested with Ed Warren stating, quote, Lorraine Warren claimed that a few things had made it possible for the demon to so fully take over Arnie. First thing was he had taken penicillin the day he wasn't feeling well, which is an antibiotic. And Arnie had also had some alcohol that afternoon, which further weakened his demon defenses. Arnie's court-appointed attorney, George Thim, was also not immediately available for comment. But by early March, Arne had a new lawyer, Martin Manila, six years out of law school and hungry to make a name for himself.

According to Mary Johnson, Arne's mother, Manila offered to represent her son free of charge, and as soon as he was on the case, he announced to the media that if his client was indicted, he was prepared to make a legal argument that the devil had made Arne Johnson murder Alan Bono. Manila said, quote, the courts have dealt with the existence of God. Now they're going to have to deal with the existence of the devil. This case will be unique in the higher jurisdiction system. We have substantial credible evidence that Mr. Johnson had no intent to harm anyone. And what happened was the result of demonic possession. People may not really want to deal with the devil, but he exists.

End quote. We are going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. So when Martin Manila said he had credible evidence that Arne Johnson was possessed, he was referring to the over 150 photos that showed David Glatzel in various stages of possession. These photos showed David clutching at his throat while his father and older brother restrained him, and another photo showed Arnie Johnson holding a silver crucifix to David's forehead. Tape recordings had also been made, and one recording, taken on October 14th at 3.30 a.m.,

had the sounds of heavy breathing, followed by David making guttural sounds and uttering obscenities. David then made a prediction on the tape in a deep and unnatural voice. Cheyenne dies at work tomorrow. Debbie Gletzel alleged that the following day, Arnie fell 20 feet from a 72-foot tree, and she said, quote, Arnie knew how to tie the ropes. He was proud of that. The knots were all secure, but somehow Arnie fell. Branches broke his fall. He was hurt. He didn't tell the others on the job because he was shamed, end quote.

After this accident, Arnie suffered a minor knee injury, but not long after, Debbie claimed that her fiancé woke up in the middle of the night screaming. Debbie said Arnie yelled out something about hell and then put his fist through a wooden chest before going back to sleep. When he woke the next morning, his hand was sore and bruised, but he had no recollection as to what he had done. So what I'm kind of feeling here is I guess that they felt if they could prove that David Glatzel was possessed, it would be easier for the jury to believe that Arnie Johnson could have also been possessed, considering he was living with the family at the time and even sleeping in the same room as David and like taunting the demons and challenging them to

come into him. So if they could... That's the foundation of their case. Yeah. If they could make even a couple members of the jury truly believe that David Glatzel may have been possessed, that would be enough at least to get a hung jury. Martin Manilla claimed he had Catholic priests and ghost hunters ready to testify. And he announced, quote, witnesses swear on the Bible, which means the courts accept the existence of God. It follows that since the Bible accepts the existence of the devil, the courts also must take him into account, end quote, which isn't like a terrible argument, honestly. Like they do be having people swear on the bible in court so

there's some aspect of religion in there and the bible does you know refer to demons i mean just a couple uh i think a couple years before this the pope at the time came out and was like yeah demons exist man there's evil in this world they're out there so the Catholic Church, it was their position that demons existed and that possession was possible. And if the Bible is being brought into court and you're asking people to swear on it, you must feel like there's some validity there. So it's not a terrible argument on Martin Manila's part. I'm a little bit more skeptical, but I hear what you're saying.

I just do not. Do you think that's a good it's kind of like it's kind of like a devil's advocate argument, right? Like, why are you having people swear in a Bible if you don't want religion in your courtroom and if you want religion in your courtroom, I get it. And I think it's a Jose Baez argument. Yeah, no, I mean, I think it's good. It's like, yeah, you don't want religion in the courtroom. I have no issue with it being in the courtroom, but I think there's the Bible in that case for the people who believe in it, obviously something sacred where you wouldn't lie on it. And that's why they're having you do it where I think it's different. I think there's the Bible in that case for the people who believe in it, obviously, something sacred where you wouldn't lie on it. And that's why they're having you do it, where I think it's different. I think it's a stretch to say swearing on the Bible to try to create some level of

credibility within the court that, you know, people would not swear, not because the people in the courtroom wouldn't know they wouldn't lie. I should say not swear, but they're not going to not lie because of the people in the courtroom. If they're not going to lie, it's because of maybe a higher power that knows all truth. But when you're making that leap to, okay, swearing on the Bible to make sure they're being true, trustworthy and truthful is one thing. And then saying that, Hey, you can go around killing people. And if, you know, it could be because of of demons we're going to let you off for that because if that how do you prove that how do you how do you i think it's a big leap so let me ask you this then yeah people who who aren't religious or who don't believe in god or who don't believe

in the sanctity of the bible what does it mean for them then when they place their hand in the bible and swear on it means nothing so yeah i mean mean, well, they don't have you do that anymore. Do they not? No, they don't have you swear on the Bible in court. I don't fucking know. They have you raise your right hand and say, do you swear to tell the truth, nothing but the truth, so help me God. So help me God?

Yeah. Do they say this, so help me God, anymore? I don't know. I don't even think they do that anymore. I don't even think they do that. What if they do? I don't think they do. I'm. I don't even think they do that. What if they do? I don't think they do. I'm trying to remember.

It's been a while. I'm pretty sure they just say, do you swear to tell the truth? Nothing but the truth. Yes, I do. Yeah. They don't have you say you. So help me God. Okay.

Yeah. They don't, they don't make you say it. Anymore. Well, I don't even remember if they made me say that ever in my career. I don't know. In the 80s they did. Maybe in the, yeah Maybe in the 80s. So, and especially in this area, maybe a more religious area.

Yes, this was Bridgeport was mainly Catholic. So, you know, my understanding now, it's you go in there, Detective Levasse, did you swear to tell the truth, nothing but the truth? Yes, I do, Your Honor. Thank you. You're now officially sworn in and you continue on with your testimony. So, yeah, I just. I mean, it's really like a pointless thing because like if you lie, like...

You're gonna lie, you're gonna lie. Yeah, stupid. So when asked how his client was doing behind bars, Manila said that Arnie was still possessed and suicidal, stating that it seemed the ultimate thing a demon could do was make you take your own life. On March 19th, 1981, Arnie Johnson was indicted by an 18-member grand

jury in the Danbury Superior Court, and state's attorney Walter Flanagan said he considered the murder a simple case of homicide that occurred during a heated argument. By the end of May, Debbie and Judy Glatzel, along with Ed and Lorraine Warren, were speaking to the papers, claiming that Arne had been possessed by the devil or a demon beyond the shadow of a doubt. They all said that Arne's mistake had been challenging the things inside of David. The Warrens also talked about their close relationship with Father Vergelak and many other local priests, but the Bridgeport Diocese had taken a stance of silence, and the priests involved had been ordered to not speak to the press.

In early April, Arnie's defense team were given permission to inspect the clothing of Alan Bono along with some of his body tissue that was being stored at the medical examiner's office and that was all that was left of him because he'd been cremated. One of Arne's lawyers, Paul Yammon, claimed that he believed the examination of these things may turn up indications that demons were involved in Bono's murder. Yamen said that a lack of blood on Alan Bono's clothing would be a sign of demonic involvement, along with the absence of rips and stab wounds. Now, this is hilarious because this was reported in the paper. And then you never hear about it again, right?

We don't hear what happened when they examined the clothes. And I'm over here thinking, like, did you actually think that there was going to be no, like, rips or, like, stab wounds in his clothes? Did you actually think that there was going to be no blood after he was stabbed, I think, four or five times? Like, what's happening here? So honestly, I feel like Arnie's lawyers at this point are just saying what the hell ever to the paper, just trying to, like, drama publicity, just stir everybody into a fervor because we never hear about these clothes again or the bodily tissue. Never. Not even during the trial. Well, what do we see in a lot of cases, right? We see defense attorneys when the case is

it's strong against your client. There's got to be some distraction, right? There's got to be some diversions. You got to have people talking about other things. Yeah. You got to keep people guessing. You got to keep them talking about things like, hey, look over here, not over here. It's a diversion tactic. And they have to know going into it, if their defense is going to be demon possession, they're already backed into a corner. So why not throw a couple more things at the wall, see what sticks. And I think they kind of sensed or knew that the courts weren't really going to be a fan of letting this demonic possession defense in. So they were trying to get as much of their narrative out into the public as possible, hoping, honestly, to influence the

potential jury pool, in my opinion. I don't think you're wrong there. Again, what do they have to lose? I think overall, you're just at an uphill battle because when you're talking about inculpatory evidence and exculpatory evidence, how do you classify demonic possession as exculpatory evidence when it's never been physically seen or touched or it just has to be a belief? So the only angle you possibly have or the only hope I should say, is that you get a jury that's made up of people who are religious and believe that that is a possibility. Because if these people are pragmatic and more based on tangible things that they can touch and feel and hear, then they're not going to buy this. And they're not going to let someone walk free just on a potential belief.

Paul Yammin, the lawyer, he said the approval of the judge for the defense to look at these items was a good sign that the courts might be willing to listen to arguments centered around demon possession, even though this defense had never been used in the United States before. But once again, I think that it's just pretty standard for the defense to be able to have a pathologist look at these things and have access to them. So it really wasn't a sign of anything. I think it was just like, what can I say to the paper today? Yep. I'm with you.

So while the Brookfield police worried about the kind of attention and publicity the case was going to bring to their little town, voicing their fears of Brookfield turning into another Amityville, Martin Manila and the Warrens were doing the most to put all eyes on Brookfield and Arnie's case. The media reported that Manila had been contacted by filmmakers and authors, and the Daily News stated, quote, after Rosemary's baby in The Exorcist, one thing is devilishly clear, Satan sells, end quote. The Warrens were doing an average of 10 radio interviews a day, and they'd spoken to newspapers from LA to London. The police countered this, saying the Warrens may be experts in the fields of psychic phenomenon and demonic possession, but they also made their living lecturing on Arnie's case, and the interest in it

had caused their speaking fees to skyrocket. The opinion of the general public seemed to vary, with one opinion columnist claiming he took offense at those who were unequivocally saying that demons did not exist. He wrote, quote, I am tired of hearing pseudo-experts with make-believe titles insisting that the devil doesn't exist or that possession can't happen. The people involved in the Brookfield case of teenager Arnie Johnson, accused of slaying his

neighbor while under demonic possession, seem to know what they're talking about. But we're never going to know the truth if people with an axe to grind keep drowning out the facts with inaccurate opinions, end quote. It's so funny because like, he's like, they don't even know what they're talking about. Like pseudo experts with make-believe titles saying the devil doesn't exist. When in fact, I would say the demonologist and psychic investigator may be more of a pseudo expert and make-believe titles than a judge or an attorney or a police officer. But what do I know? Can't blame him for trying. Yep. And another columnist asked the question, quote, even if the attorney is correct that the devil made Johnson do it, does that eliminate the young man's responsibility? After all,

who asked the demons to enter him? End quote. Damn. And it was a woman, by the way. I kind of was like, you should be arguing this case for the prosecution because, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, Arnie was like, take me, take me and get out of my buddy. So, yeah, kind of his fault. So Brookfield was a predominantly Catholic town, and it seemed that the locals were leaning towards believing that the impossible was possible with Brookfield resident Randolph Ubin saying, quote, I wouldn't discount possession. We have a spirit in our house, a child that makes little noises but doesn't do any harm. Once the family tried to use a Ouija board to try to contact an obscure Civil War general. It flew up in the air. That was enough. We threw the board away, end quote. At the end of April, Martin Manilla and his partner, Paul Yeaman, flew to England to speak to an Anglican priest who had testified in two cases of diabolical possession in the UK.

One case involved arson, the other rape, and Martin Manilla told reporters at the airport, quote, In both cases, after testimony of possession was given, the accused were found innocent, end quote. When asked for a comment about this, Chief Anderson of the Brookfield Police said, quote, I'm a Catholic and I believe in the devil. My religion tells me there's good and evil. Still, policemen are skeptical by nature. So we've been investigating that aspect of the case, and I think you'll find the facts a little different to those presented by Mr. Minella. We've talked to priests and people who know something of the defendant's background. We shall have a good case, end quote. Anderson also said that he talked to the COs at the Brookfield

Correctional Facility where Arnie was being held, and they had told him that their inmate had shown no signs of demonic possession since being there. In June, critics of both the Warrens and Martin Manilla began throwing their voices into the fray after the trio appeared on Good Morning America to discuss the case. Mentalist George Grege claimed the Brookfield case was simply a means for Ed and Lorraine Warren to prey on the superstitions of the public and build up their annual lecture revenue, saying, quote, they have an excellent vaudeville act,

a good road show. It's just that this case more involves clinical psychologists than it does them, end quote. A New Haven attorney stated that lawyers around the state could not believe Martin Manila was even attempting this defense, saying that the case was not being treated seriously by the legal community. And Minella responded to this criticism by saying, quote, I took this case because I believe in it. They told Columbus that the world was flat, but that didn't stop him, end quote. I don't know what the correlation is. I don't.

Do you understand it? Because the world's not flat. I mean, there are people that believe it. I don't want to offend anybody. I was going to say, be careful what you say because you could be opening up a debate in the comments section. I believe that the world is not flat. You are welcome to believe whatever you want. I do not judge you.

I accept you as an equal. Even if you believe the world is not flat you are welcome to believe whatever you want i do not judge you i accept you as an equal even if you believe the world is flat you go go on kings and queens just love that sail off that's what i was gonna say go right off that side you go on i better off something with the stuff going around around the world right now it's not a bad thing i mean it's kind of messed up that everybody believed the world was flat and columbus was like put me in a boat anyways you know that was kind of reckless if you think about it yeah because that was like scientifically accepted the world was flat if you went too far you would just sail right off you know into into the abyss and he was like i don't care i'm sure that that that it's it that it's flat, but I can't get killed. I'm Columbus, Christopher Columbus.

Risky. Real risky, man. He's a real outlaw. Manella also said that as soon as Arne Johnson was released, he would be placed directly into the hands of the clergy to determine whether or not he was still possessed. Let's take our last break. We'll be right back. On August, Ed and Lorraine Warren and Judy Glatzel reported that little David was not doing any better. They said that almost every night he would heave his body around in bed while muttering

obscenities, grinding his teeth and grimacing horribly. Judy said that David's school and the Bridgeport Diocese wanted the boy to have a full physical examination, saying, quote, they say he has Tourette's syndrome. They are full of beans, end quote. Debbie Glatzel also talked about a time when she had seen the beast herself in David's bedroom,

stating, quote, we were all together there. There were flashing lights. The whole wall was flashing. He manifested, just a face there on the wall. High cheekbones, a narrow chin, a thin nose, big black eyes hidden in dark holes. He showed his teeth. I was numb all over.

I could hear it calling, but I couldn't answer. End quote. It's just getting ridiculous now, Debbie. Not buying it. It's getting ridiculous now, Debbie. In October, after months of talking about how he would make Arne Johnson's murder trial the first American court case to test the existence of the devil, Martin Manila was stunned when Judge Robert Callahan ruled that the demonic possession defense could not be used in court.

Manila had been planning to have four priests testify during the trial relating to the beliefs and the dogma of the Catholic Church, since part of that dogma was that there really is such a thing as demonic possession and that evil does in fact exist. During jury selection, Manila approached the first potential jury, who was 18-year-old Gerald Ryan. And can I just say it's weird because he was 18 years old, but he had two kids. They said father of two, 18-year-old Gerald Ryan. And that was just normal that's normal back then earlier yeah well life expectancy wasn't as long it's the 1981 dude not 1891 listen it's still you know back then it was more normal you know still like what we're talking 40 years ago i mean yeah because like people grew up faster than now you're 18 years old you're definitely like living in your mom's

basement for another 20 years playing Fortnite. My mom had me when she was 18. And it was more like socially acceptable back then, you know? I'm not saying it's a bad thing now. Did she already have a kid by then though? Or are you the oldest? I'm the oldest. When did she have your brother?

The next year. She kept it busy. Damn. That's what I'm saying. So it wasn't an accident. She kept it busy, Derek. Yeah. Oh my God. Yep. Irish twins. I'm saying. So it wasn't an accident. She kept it busy, Derek. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yep. Irish twins. I'm so sorry, Mom. Shout out, Mom. I'm so sorry you said that about me. 13 months apart. Hey, listen. The facts are the facts.

I'm a truth seeker. Even when it comes to my mom. You're a truth teller. Even when it comes to my mom. Mama Levasseur's not off the table. Hey, nothing I'm saying right now I haven't said to her. She'll be like, shut up, Derek. But, you know, it is what it is.

You just said to get around. Don't worry. Yeah. Hey, listen. Same guy. Jesus. Why you got to go? Whoa.

I know. I did. I'm so sorry. I mean, what? He just said you got busy. Yeah. Yeah. It was a monogamous relationship yeah very happy

one continue continue very passionate one okay didn't work out too well because he left after that but you know different story for a time the fire burned bright yes so manila asked gerald ryan the 18 year old father of two was he catholic and if he believed in the existence of a supreme being and gerald ryan responded yes but then manila asked him if he believed in the existence of a supreme being? And Gerald Ryan responded, yes. But then Manila asked him if he believed in the existence of a demonic or evil force. And before Gerald Ryan could answer, Judge Callahan cut in. He was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And the juror was excused while Callahan and Manila battled it out. Callahan asked Manila, quote, are you telling me that you're going to prove or attempt to prove the demonic possession of the defendant? And as an objective fact, not that he thought he was possessed?

Manila asked the judge if he believed in demonic possession and Callahan threw up his hands and said he just didn't know if there was such a thing. To which Martin Manila responded, quote, We're not interested in what you believe, Your Honor. We have the right to present our case and let the jury decide what weight to give it. But dude, you just asked him if he believed in demonic possession. He didn't get the answer he wanted. Callahan's like, I don't know. And he's like, we don't care what you believe. No one asked you. So Judge Callahan eventually ruled that testimony about religious beliefs regarding demons was not reliable and it would only confuse jurors. And when Manila demanded that Callahan recuse himself from the case because of his biases, Callahan refused and claimed his ruling was based on the fact that there was no such defense.

Outside the courtroom, an enraged Martin Manila spoke to reporters stating that the judge had made his ruling without hearing a word of evidence. And he said, quote, what the judge has done is told Roman Catholics, Christians, and Jews that their beliefs are not based on any reason, end quote. Manila also said that if Callahan stuck to his ruling, he would attempt to argue the demonic possession defense in the absence of a jury. That way it would be in the court record, and it could be used as an appeal. So this happens sometimes if the judge won't allow a certain defense or if the judge won't allow certain things to be entered on in front of the jury. They'll excuse the jury, and then the defense lawyers can argue it in front of the judge simply for the matter of it being on court record.

And that way later, if they want to appeal and say, oh, our defense strategy was shut down, see it's on the record, they can now use that as a way to appeal. I'm with you. In November of 1981, the plot thickened when Arnie's half-brother, 16-year-old Robert Lee Johnson, spoke to the media and said, get this, Debbie Glatzel had dated their father, Arnie Johnson Sr., before she had become involved with Arnie Jr. But he also said that he did not believe his brother was capable of murder, stating, quote, I keep thinking, why him? Why our family? People laugh at us plenty, but I really think Arnie had to be possessed. It's the only explanation. I mean, there's either hope or evil, bad or good.

There ain't no in-between, end quote. Can we just talk for a minute about how this dude just, and this is like, I found this like buried in newspapers.com, but this dude just pops out of the gate out of nowhere. And he's like, Debbie dated our father before she dated my brother. What? And it's never mentioned again, but it's kind of odd. It's kind of odd. This whole dynamic's a little weird. Well, and I think that does play into this whole scenario,

what we're dealing with here and the players involved and their interpretation of what was happening in their lives with David and everybody else. I do think that all is a factor you have to consider. It's an interesting dynamic, and that's being nice. Yes, very, very weird. So on November 5th, which was strangely enough the same day that Charles Manson was denied parole,

the trial of 19-year-old Arnie Cheyenne Johnson began. Twelve jurors were seated, and Judge Callahan once again informed the gathering crowd that he would not be allowing a defense based on demonic possession, period. The defense team faced a roadblock almost immediately when Judge Callahan overruled Manila's motion to keep a piece of evidence from the jury. This evidence was from testimony given by Leo Hangsleider, the first emergency responder on the scene of Alan Bono stabbing. Hangsleider claimed that when he arrived, Debbie Glatzel was in a very emotionally disturbed state, and she kept yelling, oh daddy, he didn't mean to do it. You know how he gets when he's been drinking, end quote. Hanksler said that he didn't know who the

he was that Debbie was referring to, and therefore Martin Manilla wanted Debbie's statement stricken from the record, but he was denied. So do you think she was like talking to Alan Bono and saying like, oh daddy, he didn't mean to do it. You know how he gets when he drinks, like talking to Alan Bono, who was still alive at the time because her dad wasn't there. Arnie wasn't there. Who's she talking to? Who even knows if it was really said? Well, this is like an emergency responder, like a paramedic.

I know, but I'm saying, could he have misinterpreted what she said? Yes. To answer your question, it's possible. But I would think that she wouldn't be calling the guy daddy in that moment. It's possible. Unless they had like an intimate relationship and she was really upset that he was like stabbed and dying. So you're going to call him daddy? I mean.

Seems like the wrong time, the wrong place to be referring to him as daddy. He's in his 40s. He's much older than her. And, you know. But when are you calling someone daddy are you really gonna ask me that question that's what i'm saying not when they just stabbed to death you know i i don't think you're gonna be going there for that moment i might man actually i might i don't know i'm just saying i don't i don't believe i don't think she was talking to god maybe yeah i don't

know god daddy i don't i don't think uh if she had called him that in the past because of whatever relationship they had, she's clearly selective. She's not calling him Daddy around Arnie. Arnie wasn't there. Arnie walked off in a trance into the woods. Yeah, but she has an ability to turn it on and off. So moral of the story, I think if she was calling him Daddy, he was behind closed doors. That's my guess. And when Arnie wasn't around.

Just saying. And when othernie wasn't around. Just saying. And when other people weren't around. Yeah. Including first responders. She's like in a state of incredibly emotional disturbed state.

She doesn't know what's happening. All right, listen, all I'm saying is weird. All right, so Susan Burroughs, a bartender from the Mug and Munch Cafe where the group had been

for lunch that day of the murder, also testified. She said that she had served Arnie and Alan Bono that afternoon, and between the two of them, they had consumed 13 to 15 glasses of wine. Dr. Abraham Stolman, the state's chief toxologist, testified that although Bono may have done the majority of the drinking that day, it was likely that Arnie was legally intoxicated at the time of the murder. He said that Bono's blood had registered at 0.33%,

far over the legal limit. Arnie's BAC was 0.03% when he was tested four hours later, which is below the legal limit, but he said it was most likely higher at the time that he had stabbed Alan Bono. And then Arnie's two sisters got on the stand and threw everyone for a loop. Janice was declared a hostile witness after she denied telling the police that she had seen her brother stab Alan Bono. She told the jury that she did not remember saying that to detectives, but she did remember how Arnie was acting moments before Alan Bono fell to the ground. She said, quote, he made voices come out of his mouth, growling, screaming, and talking all at the same time, and nobody could do that, end quote. Arnie's other sister, Wanda, also denied

that she had ever made a statement to the police that Arnie had stabbed Alan Bono. She now claimed she'd only seen a brief struggle between the two men before Arnie calmly walked into the woods. She said she saw her brother growling like the Hulk and she knew that he wasn't himself because he had never acted like that before. However, it was also revealed during the trial that Arnie's sister Janice had told the police that she had witnessed her brother being physically abusive to his fiance, Debbie, before. She had seen him punch and kick Debbie and she said, quote, I just stared. I froze. I never thought my brother would ever do that. End quote.

Interesting. Well, it shows that he has a predisposition to violence. You know, unless you're again to believe that it's because he's possessed, he's done this in the past. So to think that he would do it again, especially to a man, is not a big leap. Do you think that he did that to Debbie? Why not? If we're going to believe that he was possessed by a demon, we can't believe that he would, under the right circumstances, put his hands on another person. He stabbed someone to death.

While he's possessed, you mean? Either or. Arnie, the body of Arnie has physically assault you know killed a man and so i don't think it's a it's a big stretch to say that he could have struck his wife in the past while under the influence of something or maybe not just just because he's got it clearly he has an anger issue you think yeah all right yeah if you if you if you to believe that he's not possessed by a demon i would say that coming out of the house and stabbing a guy in the chest multiple times, even though what he did was wrong, if you grabbed this kid, it still doesn't justify what you did. So I would say that's an anger issue, not an inability to control emotion.

Well, Martin Manilla presented multiple character witnesses who all testified that Arnie was a quiet, mild-mannered person. Arnie's mother, Mary Johnson, said that Arnie was always very quiet and he would walk away from people who wanted to fight. Patty Giddings, a neighbor of the Glatzels, said that Arnie was a nice, quiet young man and she had never even seen him take a drink once. Arnie would play cards with Patty and her husband sometimes and he often helped them with things around the house. Bernard Wright, owner of the Bridgeport Tree Service where Arnie was employed, he testified that Arnie had worked there for six months and during that time he did what he was told and never started trouble. And a fellow employee, Brian Rubio, said he had never seen Arnie be aggressive

or threaten anyone. John Dipp, a science teacher at Roosevelt High School, told the jury that Arnie had never been in trouble in school, he had never gotten into fights, and he was never even disciplined for anything academic or behavior related. During the first several days of the trial, the defense team was not allowed to ask any of the 11 witnesses questions about demonic possession, and Martin Manilla told the media that he was being forced to go with an alternate defense, that Arnie had killed Alan Bono to protect his nine-year-old cousin, Mary. Manilla also said that he would prove that it had been Alan Bono who was holding the knife, not Arnie Johnson. So Arnie's cousin Mary testified that

when Bono had grabbed her, she'd been scared. She yelled, let me go, let me go, and called for Arnie who stepped in to save her. She said she had seen Bono walk over to his desk and take something shiny off of it, a knife. When Arnie Johnson took the stand, he calmly and quietly explained to the jury that while they'd been in Alan Bono's apartment, the older man had started to get mad because of the bad television reception. He'd been hitting his fist into his hand, and then he hit the wall next to the TV, and Arnie decided it was time for them to go. He began to head out, thinking that Debbie and the rest of the girls were right behind him, and that's when he heard Mary cry out for help and say his name,

and he turned to see Alan Bono holding tight to Mary's shirt with one hand and holding something shiny in the other. He said that he told Bono to let go of his cousin and drop his knife, a knife that Arnie had left on the desk earlier while repairing Bono's stereo, and that was all he remembered before he came to hours later at the police station. Martin Manilla claimed he planned to prove that Bono was the one who had initiated the knife into the situation, but he was still going to try and present his demonic possession case, even if he was only allowed to do it outside the presence of the jury. And just like as a quick sort of side note, the judge was like, OK, you can present your demonic possession case when the jury's not here. And then he was like, no, I changed my mind. I don't even want to bring that shit in here. I don't want to bring it in here. Like, you're not going to do it.

The defense case is a much stronger argument than the possession. I think that would have better angle to play from the beginning. Well, that's the angle they eventually had to go with. That's the angle they went with, but I feel like that should have been the main focus. But it would be grudging. I feel like that should have been the main focus and this demonic possession should have been a Hail Mary if nothing else worked. But when you go in there with, you're making the spectacle out of this trial, I feel like you do lose a little bit of credibility when it's time to get down to it. And I feel like this argument would have been much stronger if it had been presented first. So I think it also takes away from that argument when

the lawyer is like, well, they won't let us talk about demonic possession. So I guess I'm going to have to go with self-defense. That's what I'm saying. They should have swapped them. They would have swapped them. It would have been more believable. You go in there and say, listen, we're not arguing that it happened. We're not arguing that my client did stab the other person in this case. They wouldn't refer to them as a victim, that he did stab Alan. But what we're here to tell you is that he stabbed him in self-defense. He stabbed him because he was in fear of his own life. And if Alan hadn't pulled out a knife or grabbed a knife, then my client never would have had to protect himself. Could you get a jury to potentially believe that? I would say a much higher probability than getting them to believe

that your client had been possessed. So they could have said like, oh, it was self-defense, but we also think that Arnie may have been like- See, I would have left it right out. Influenced by something dark. I would have left it right out. You're right, they could, but I would have left it out. Just a stabbing self-defense case, is that making the papers? Is that selling books? Is that turning into movies? No, no. Right? No, it's not. And in fact, I would say, allegedly, just in my opinion, Martin Manila kind of did his client a disservice by focusing so heavily on this demonic possession case when he should have had a level head and said, listen, Arnie, nobody's going to believe this. They might not even let us talk about it in

court. And yeah, it'll make headlines. And yeah, the papers will be calling. And yeah, people are going to be trying to get the movie rights. But it's not in your best interest to kind of go down this path. Yeah, I mean, we kind of, yeah, I agree. During closing arguments, the state's attorney, Walter Flanagan, told the jury that Arnie intended to kill Alan Bono. And even though the prosecution did not need to present a motive, he said it had probably been due to jealousy over Debbie Glatzel and the amount of times that Alan had been stabbed proved Arnie's intent. Martin Manila said that if Alan Bono had not grabbed Mary and threatened her, he would still be alive. And he stated, quote, the state wants us to believe that Alan Bono stood there like a pincushion. Johnson repeatedly stabbed him.

But in actuality, there was a struggle and Bono was the aggressor, end quote. Manila also claimed that the police were so eager to build a case against Arnie that they had purposely distorted what the eyewitnesses at the scene had told them. Outside, Manila told reporters that if Arnie was convicted, they would be appealing to the Supreme Court. On November 24th, the jury began to deliberate, and after six hours, the seven women and five men were unable to reach a verdict, being stuck on the conflicting witness statements. The next afternoon, they were deadlocked again until later that day when the jury returned with a verdict and Arnie Cheyenne Johnson was convicted on the reduced charge of first degree manslaughter. On December 18th, Arnie was sentenced to 10 to 20

years in prison. He would only end up serving five because while he had been locked up, Arnie had been an exemplary prisoner who never gave anyone trouble and who didn't have any altercations or issues with prison staff or fellow prisoners. So wait, no longer possessed? No longer possessed, but also not violent. So the demon left his body because the demon wasn't going to prison. The demon got what he wanted. He ruined Arnie's life, right? But he wasn't doing prison time.

No, of course not. No. Devil can't go behind bars. No. Yeah, that's another rule. Because he can't knock on no doors. There's no doors. There's just jail cells rule. Because you can't knock on no doors. There's no doors. It's just jail cells.

There's no doors to knock on in jail. Just like he goes to put his hand through, it just goes right through the bars. He's like, oh, can't come in. This isn't going to work for me. Sorry. Hands are tied. Although you feel like a prison would be like a perfect prowling ground for demons. Yeah, that's what I was saying.

A bunch of people there just welcoming a possession. Yeah, waiting to be possessed. Nope. Maybe they already were possessed, and that's why they did what they did to get them there. They're all there for that, yeah. So while behind bars, Arnie married Debbie Glatzel. And after he was released, they would have two children together. Now, although David Glatzel, the possessed 11-year-old, has removed himself from the public eye,

his brother Carl has spoken to the media, claiming that his brother is doing well and has moved on from the things he went through as an 11-year-old child. In 2007, both Carl and David filed a lawsuit against Gerald Brittle. So he's the author of the book, The Devil in Connecticut, that the movie is based off of. And Brittle wrote this along with Ed and Lorraine Warren, who, by the way, have both since passed away. So Carl and David sued for violation of their privacy, as well as libel and intentional infliction of emotional distress. They claimed that basically Brittle and the Warrens just, you know, used their family and their story and dramatized everything to make money. Brittle, the author, responded that his book was based on fact and also based on interviews that he did with the Glatzel family for more than 100 hours. Carl claims that the Warrens exploited his

family for money, and he told the Associated Press in 2007 that his brother David had suffered from mental illness as a child, a condition he had since recovered from. They never say what mental illness, they never say what he was diagnosed with, they never even say if he was diagnosed. They just said he would sometimes have delusions and hallucinations and then he recovered. So I don't know if he's receiving therapy, if he's taking medication, if he's been treated, they don't really say. Sounds like something we were talking about earlier in this episode, right? When you have a group of people who have an agenda, you know, specifically demonic activity, that's what their diagnosis is going to be.

Where if they were, if this child was brought to a doctor, might have been treated differently instead of feeding into this idea that David was possessed. The sources for this are very sketchy. Even the newspapers of the time. Some papers said David Glatzel had been brought to a doctor and a psychiatrist and cleared. Some didn't mention it. Some stories online say that he was brought into a psychiatrist and cleared. Some didn't mention it. Some stories online say that he was brought into a psychiatrist

and cleared. You just don't know, honestly, because we don't know what the sources are for whatever these news stories are printing. They don't really say. No, I'm with you. And that's why you got to take it all with a grain of salt. But I do think on the surface, from what you've said, it does sound like that's a more accurate account of what happened. And it sounds like without knowing all the details that David and, and Carl feel like they were not treated the best when they were children. And that they were taking, like they said, they were taken advantage of. And maybe David in hindsight, now that he's been treated properly as saying I was never possessed. I hadn't, I had something

going on and I wasn't treated the way I should have been treated. And I wasn't taken care of the way I should have been taken care of. And my parents and my sister were all manipulated into believing that it was something different than what it really was. And hence why I'm suing them now, because they're making money off this lie. It doesn't sound like he's happy about what had happened when he was a child. And that he's. I think you said, what was the word? He's moved past what had happened to him as a child. What does that sound like to you? It doesn't sound like someone who agrees with the way things were handled at that time.

I mean, I imagine that. But if you were possessed, wouldn't you want to move past that as well? Oh my God, Stephanie. I'm just saying. I can't right now. I can't. I can't right now. I can't. I can't.

I'm just, I think it's weird that they never said what mental condition he suffered from. Well, it's his right to privacy. Yeah, it is. You're right. It is. So it's like he doesn't want, he's already been dragged to the mud. There's people out there that think he was possessed as a child. He's like, I'm not getting into more of my personal stuff anymore.

You guys already have an, already believe what you believe. wouldn't say anything i know i guess i just i think it would be helpful for other cases that come up like this because i mean you'd think it's not common but i literally i think a couple years ago i read a story where a child was murdered during some exorcism you know so it's kind of like helpful to know what it could be instead of that you know yeah i mean i think now with the science being what it is it's easier to diagnose these symptoms when they come up you know whatever behavior they're displaying and i think the argument really here is that if i could talk to david he would say i was never brought to the proper people to diagnose me we were under the control of Ed and Lorraine who said demon, demon, demon the whole time. So that's what they went with instead of bringing

them to professionals in other areas, the medical field and getting second opinions, right? They just fell in with this whole demonic angle. And David, at the end of the day, was the real victim here. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And like I said, I'm not discounting that the Glatzels truly believed he was possessed. I don't think they would make that up. I don't think they would put him through that if they didn't think he was. But I mean, there should have been some measures taken to verify. Of course, I'm going to believe these people exactly what they say. No, I couldn't agree more. So to this day, Debbie Glatzel and Arnie Johnson stand by their claims that Arnie was possessed by a demon who turned him momentarily into a violent murderer. And honestly, if you want to know more about this case, including hearing from many of the people involved. And I think they even have actual trial footage in there. You can watch the new Netflix documentary that has actually

just dropped today, October 17th, on the day we're recording this episode. It's called The Devil on Trial. I unfortunately have not had a chance to watch it because it just came out today and it was a busy day for me. Podcast days always are. So I couldn't watch it yet, but I read about it and they said they have like, you know, interviews. I think Debbie Glatzel is interviewed in there. I even think Carl is in there and they have like footage from the trial and they probably have more like demonic exorcism audio of David Glatzel. So you should watch that. I'm going to not tonight because it's already two o'clock in the morning, but probably tomorrow. And yeah, I mean, final thoughts.

For me, I wrote a couple of things down. And what I first go to is science, right? You have to rely on something that's been tested and proved. And when it comes to the core of, and we even see it now with genetic genealogy, we have people making defenses in cases for genetic genealogy, IgG, using familial DNA to match people. You have attorneys right now who are using this in the Brian Koberger case to say, listen, this science is still new. It's only been around for like, they've only been using it for five years. How can we really trust it? So there's got to be a lengthy history of showing that this, whatever you're going to go with has been proven that can actually be seen and verified. Right. And the belief in something is not going to be

enough. And that was the second point I wanted to make. You know, there was an argument made by the defense attorney that if you can't, you can't discredit religious beliefs. Well, I would argue, and I think one of the detectives did, you can still be religious and not believe in demonic possession or believe that this individual was possessed at the time of the crime and still be a devout Catholic or whatever religion you are. I don't think the two go hand in hand where you have, in order for you to be religious, you also have to believe that Arnie Johnson was possessed when he killed this person. That's the two don't have to line up. And then finally precedent, right? The courts are setting precedent every time they decide a case. And you do not want to set a precedent based on a belief that someone can get off for killing

another human being simply because they were possessed by a demon, which cannot be proved. That's a slippery slope, yeah. It's a slippery slope. And if you open up that door, if you open that, now you're opening up the floodgates for all these other people coming in here and saying, hey, I was possessed too. So I agree with the court's decision. I actually agree with the finding as far as the charge and the conviction as far as manslaughter. And I'll tell you why quickly. I do think there's probably the truth is in the middle there. I think there was more going on. I think alcohol was involved. It sounds like Arnie might've had a predisposition to violence. He might've been someone who is physical in nature in the past. And there might've been something going on that Arnie was aware of between Alan and Debbie. And then you'd couple that with the fact that maybe this little girl was yelling for Arnie in that moment when she was being grabbed and everything just escalated. A fight ensued. There's a, there's a, there's a struggle over the knife. Who cares who brought it?

And one guy ends up getting killed. And I think that's the final thing here. Whereas you have Alan, I don't know if he was a good guy or a bad guy, but someone was killed here. He shouldn't have been. So obviously that's unfortunate, but I do think that the right thing happened here. Arnie went to prison for what he did. We can make the argument if he went to prison long enough. But overall, I do not believe he was possessed. I think I did a pretty good job of entertaining everything. But overall, I think that this is exactly what it looks like, a situation where an argument got out of hand, someone got stabbed, and the people involved here tried to rewrite history to a certain degree based on something that actually happened with David

and use it as a defense for Arnie. That's what I think happened. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it was premeditated, right? I don't think Arnie woke up that day and said, I'm going to kill Alan Bono. I don't even know if there was necessarily anything going on between Debbie and Alan, but I guarantee you that Alan probably got handsy with her sometimes when he was drinking, maybe said some things. She walked by and he maybe looked at her and Arnie picked up on that. And then Bono grabbing Mary against her will may have been like kind of the tip of the iceberg or the straw that broke the camel's back for Arnie, where he was like, all right, I'm done with you. Just feeling like every female in your presence is yours.

Put your hands on and do whatever you want. We know Alan Bono definitely drank a lot that day. Right. His BAC showed that this was common for him. He drank a lot all the time. We know what alcohol does. It reduces your inhibitions. It can sometimes turn you into a dickhead. And if you already are, you know, and it kind of seemed like maybe Alan crossed a line.

And yes, he was stabbed. And I'm sure, honestly, there probably was a little bit of a struggle because Arnie was probably like, get your hands off of her. And Alan was probably like, make me, you know, and then and then there you go. At the end of the day, I definitely think that what Ed and Lorraine Warren did was exploitative. Now, was it purposely or once again? Are they under the same sort of del delusion like every time they see anything that doesn't line up with average behavior, it's demonic possession? Because if that's your field, if that's what you do and a little bit more, you know, fearfully than an average person would because of what we do all day, every day.

So where, you know, somebody might look at the guy at the park hanging out by the swings and just be like, oh, look at that guy. He's probably here with this kid. I look at that guy and I'm like, what's that dude doing? Why is he standing there? Why is he wearing sunglasses? Why is he so close to the kids? Is his kid here?

I don't see him talking to a kid. What's going on? So when you do something all the time, that's all you see sometimes. I don't want to say it was intentional, but I will say that the Warrens made a lot of money off of Arne Johnson's case. Overall, it validates them, right? I do believe they probably believe this to a certain degree. I don't know if they were con artists per se, but this is something where you look at it and go, see, this is what we've been saying all along. This is what we live our life by. This is real. And here's the proof of it. So that's their golden ticket. So obviously there could be some confirmation bias there as well, where they want to believe what they're seeing, right? Yeah. Maybe a lack of self-awareness

too, right? Nobody wants to see themselves as like a snake oil salesman. Yeah, no, I agree with you there. I don't think Arnie was possessed. I don't. Okay, I'm glad that we feel the same. I don't think David Glatzel was possessed. I also will say, I don't think that all the things they said happened, happened.

I think that some of the things they said happened, happened. I think that some of the things they said happened, happened, and it probably scared them. But then after Arnie is arrested, they're like, we got to make, we got to sell this. We got to make this, you know, really, I mean, the dude, the kid's levitating. He's bloating up. There's cracks in his skin. Like, what? What happened when he unbloated? Where did the cracks in his skin go? You know, like, did you bring him to a doctor? What's happening? There's no supporting evidence. And I will say that as I went through the newspapers, and I mean, I went through 18 months of newspaper articles, the story was constantly changing on behalf of the Glatzels, on behalf of the Warrens. You know, sometimes it was two exorcisms. Sometimes it was three.

Sometimes there was a solemn exorcism performed. Sometimes there wasn't. They were just basic exorcisms. And the story would always change. And I guess if you were living in that day and just reading the papers as they came out, you wouldn't notice as much as if you were reading them all in the same day and noting the irregularities in the narrative. That, to me, is a big red flag that you're not telling the truth that to me is you can't keep your own i don't want to say lies but your own inaccurate facts straight so that was that was a little uh unsettling for me when i saw it all laid out

like that but yeah at the end of the day i mean the dude only served five years in prison for murder and then he got to marry the woman of his dreams. They had kids. They seem to be having a happy life. I don't know. I guess the only person who didn't really win here is Alan Bono. And that's very sad. That is absolutely. But no, I think I think justice was served. I think it was handled the right way. Interesting case. Thank you guys for joining us on this one. A lot of you really seem to like it. So maybe we'll throw some of these in once in a while where there's this, obviously this

true element to it. I really think this was the perfect mix for us, right? Like it wasn't just completely like spooky story. Like there's a lot to this where there was an actual trial that I thought really great pick by you. Honestly, when you mentioned it, I was like, this is a good one. And yeah, I think we should do it again in the future. I know there's not a million of these cases, but I feel like you have a million of them. Yeah. Okay. There we go. See, I do your go with that. So do we want to say what the next case is? I have a whole list of people who killed other people because they

legitimately thought they were vampires. All right. Well, I mean, listen, I'm open for it, especially if you guys like this type of content. I hate to refer to it as content. But if you like this, these types of cases where it's a little different than what we normally do kind of puts us out. Well, puts me outside my comfort zone. I'll say that much. But it was fascinating.

Kept me on my toes and trying to separate fact from fiction. And I think at the end of the day, we kind of got there. We got there, although it was an interesting case. And we met in the middle. We did. Not too bad. See, we can work together. Yeah. Do we want to see what the next case is? Or no, we want to just keep them in suspense. The next case, we're going to keep them in suspense. We both flubbed that word. Okay, cool. It's two o'clock in the morning. Yeah, we're not going to tell you what it is. It's a really good case. And a lot of you have probably heard about it before, but there's been some recent developments in it, which is why we're going to cover it. So as always, if you haven't already, please like, comment, subscribe to the channel. It really does help us grow. If you're listening on audio, leave a rating, leave a review, try to go through and always read them.

See the good, the bad, the ugly, everything in between. Again, it helps us to continue to grow the channel both creatively and as a show. So more people get exposed to this and they learn more about the cases that we're covering. Final words to you, Stephanie Harlow. I have no final words besides I want my bed and my heating pad and I want to go to bed. You know what I want right now? Most random thing ever. What is that? Garlic bread. Don't ask me why.

I was going to say a chicken sandwich. A garlic bread right now would be phenomenal. That's all I got. Guys, we appreciate you being here. Crispy, crunchy garlic. Right? Butter. Told you.

All right. We'll talk to you guys later. Have a good night. Stay safe out there. Bye.