Crime Weekly - S3 Ep170: Dan Markel: Felt Like Pearl Harbor (Part 2)

Episode Date: January 5, 2024

In July of 2014, Florida State University professor Dan Markel dropped his two young sons off to preschool and made a quick stop at the gym before heading to his home in Tallahassee, Florida. Within minutes of arriving home, Dan Markel was shot execution style in his garage. In the aftermath, a lengthy investigation would follow that would include financial and phone records, surveillance cameras, wiretaps and a FBI sting operation, and what this investigation would uncover would shock everyone. In the case there have already been three criminal trials, four murder convictions and a fifth arrest, but new details and allegations are emerging every day, suggesting that there may still be more that we do not know about the shocking and tragic murder of 41-year-old Dan Markel. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. 3DayBlinds.com/CrimeWeekly - Buy one, get one 50% off on custom blinds and shades! 2. StitchFix.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix! 3. HelloFresh.com/CrimeWeeklyFree - Use Code CRIMEWEEKLYFREE for FREE breakfast for life! 4. EatIQBAR.com -Text WEEKLY to 64000 for 20% off all IQBAR products and FREE shipping! 5. SKIMS.com - Get FREE shipping on orders over $75!

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek LeBasser. Yes, you are. I am. So today we're jumping into part two of the Dan Markell case. And I mean, unless you have anything to say, we'll dive right in. We can dive in. But I always say, can we dive in?

And I say, yeah, let me say one thing. And I say something for 10 seconds. So I'm glad we're recording right now. I know you hate when I do this, but I'm going to do it anyways. We're wearing the same outfit as last week because we're recording the episodes back to back. The reason why I'm excited is because I ended last week's episode saying like I wanted to say more because the real thick of everything is kind of going to be more so part two, part three. But part one, we were laying down the foundation. You have a very good understanding now of the family dynamic between Dan and Wendy

and obviously the Adelson's and also the Markell's because we didn't talk about Dan's parents too much, but they are in this whole situation. And as you start to do your own research, you'll see interviews from Dan's parents. They have a lot of opinions on this. So we're going to probably get into them a little bit, but be sure to do your own research. You'll find more. They have a lot of strong opinions about this whole case but knowing the context of the whole dynamic between the two families now we can go forward because as we ended last episode it ended on a note where basically wendy unbeknownst to dan up and takes the kids and leaves and leaves the divorce papers on the door so it's like a really really big change on the bed, a big change of events for Dan and Wendy and their two sons.

So now it's bad, but it's about to get a lot worse. And we're going to dive into it tonight. Yes. So it was Monday, September 10th, 2012, and Florida State University professor Dan Markell was with several of his colleagues at a conference in New York City. Everything was going well, except for the fact that Dan had been away from home for three days and he'd received zero communication from his wife, Wendy. When he called, she wouldn't answer. He texted, she didn't answer. Zero communication. And so that means he's not even able to speak to his children, say goodnight to them, talk to them,

tell them he loves them, etc. Like he has not heard from them at all. Dan would later find out that the reason for this was because Wendy was busy executing her getaway plan. Throughout the entire weekend, Wendy's parents had been at the Trescott Drive home, helping their daughter pack everything in the house that she wanted into a hired moving van. When Dan arrived home later that day, he walked into a house that he barely recognized. Wendy had not just taken her clothes and personal belongings. She hadn't taken what she could fit into boxes. She'd taken more than half of the furniture, including the boys' cribs. The only bed left behind was in the master bedroom, and sitting on that bed were divorce papers, signed by Wendy on September 5th, a date that was before Dan had even left for his trip to New York

City. The divorce documents stated that Wendy had left behind no address for where she and her sons were. She had left no necessities for the children, such as pajamas, diapers, or diaper wipes, and she'd made away with several non-material objects, such as Dan's tennis racket, family jewelry, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash and equities. Dan would later tell friends and family that he had been totally blindsided by what he called Wendy's cruel and abrupt departure. He said he had known that there was issues, that there was a growing restlessness in his wife, and they'd been bickering over things like household chores and, of course, the old fight of living in Tallahassee. But he had not felt that there were any issues that he and Wendy could not tackle and overcome as a married couple.

Before we dive into the nitty-gritty of what would become a very messy and contentious divorce, let's turn back to Wendy's fictional novel. This is our story. A book that Dan promoted and talked about on his blog because he was proud that she had written it, but reportedly he had not found the time to read it. Now, this is debated. Every source I saw said that he didn't read the book because he was busy. He had his own work going on. He didn't read the book. In her book, Dan's mother, Ruth Markell, claims that he absolutely did and that he did see the similarities between his and Wendy's situation and what these fictional characters, Josh and Lily, were going through. But it didn't bother him. He didn't think about it like that. He just thought like,

it's creative writing. She's just being inspired by the structure of things, but she's adding her own embellishments and dramatic effect for this creative writing process. Did he read the book? I would say no. I'm not saying that Ruth lied. Maybe Dan told her he read the book. I don't know, you know, because he knew that if he said he didn't, she'd be like, come on, like, that's your wife's book. You should read it. But his friends said he didn't read it. Like there was multiple interviews done with people who said, no, he didn't read it. So I don't know. It's kind of like hit or miss whether he did or not. But I would say if you asked me, did he read it? No, because if he had, I feel like these similarities that he's

speaking of would have that we're speaking of would have been kind of like if I if I was Dan and I read that book, I'd be like, wow, this woman really doesn't want to be married to me. Like, you know what I mean? That's just and he woman really doesn't want to be married to me. Like, you know what I mean? That's just, and he was a smart guy. So I don't know. I don't know if he read it or not, but I would say no. See, I would say the opposite. I would say the opposite because I mean, listen, it's, it's your wife's book. He doesn't seem like a fictional reader. You know, it seems like he, that's not something that would interest him. But if, but if Adam wrote a book, whether it was your, whether it was your field of interest or not, do you think you'd read it? Especially as someone as educated as this

guy where he could probably read that book in a week, a day or two, and you're a great reader as well. You don't think you'd want to check out the book that your significant other wrote? I mean, it's a pretty important milestone. So I would have the best intentions to read it, just as I have the best intentions to read the 13 books that are stacked next to the chair in the living room that I bought because I really want to read them. And if I don't have time to read the books I actually want to read, like, am I going to have where's the time to read a book that I'm not really even interested in? Maybe I don't really like fiction, et cetera, et cetera. Like, it's just it's a time thing. Like, if I had a lot more time, I would just read everything. Maybe I don't really like fiction, et cetera, et cetera. Like it's just, it's a time thing. Like if I had a lot more time, I would just read everything. But I don't know.

I don't know. I'm calling bullshit. If it was your husband who wrote a book, I think you'd be all over it. And you'd also be going with it with a lens of, let me see that there's a character in here that's supposed to be after me. And he doesn't frame her in the right light. I'm coming for his neck. That's what I see you doing.

I think my husband would know better than to do that. So I wouldn't read it because he would know better. I think you would read it. I mean, I can say- Eventually. I would read it eventually. Yes. Eventually when I retire and I have time to read, I'll read that book. Yeah. Yeah. I think if my wife wrote a book, especially, I mean, I think I would be curious. I'd want to know. I'd want to see how they were as a writer. But I guess, yeah, he's a busy guy. Maybe he didn't have time to, but. And he's got to read a lot of stuff for his job, you know? That's what I'm saying.

And that's how I feel. Like, I have to read a lot. Like, I'm reading like four books a week sometimes. Like, just for this case, I'm reading three books. And it's like, I'm reading a lot already for my job. So I don't have time for like a leisure reading right now. That's the first question of the night, by the way. For everybody who's listening or watching this right now,

way down in the comments, if your significant other wrote a book, even if you weren't married to them yet, would you be curious about that book to see, hmm, I wonder what personal experiences they pulled from. Would you read it or not? I mean, be honest. Huh? I said be honest because.

Be honest. It's the right thing to do to read the book. But yeah, once again, like for me and maybe for someone like Dan, it just would be a time and like it wouldn't be so much of a want. It would be like, do I have the capacity to do this right now? So I don't know. Last time we talked a little bit about how Wendy and Dan had both been, you know, discussing wanting to move out of Tallahassee. Wendy claimed that because the Jewish faith was so important to Dan, they had both agreed that South Florida, with its bigger Jewish population, would be a better place for them to live.

However, like I said, Dan had become quite comfortable where they were at. He had a good circle of friends. He liked his job. He liked his colleagues. And he was making a name for himself. So whenever she brought up the subject of leaving, Dan would tell her that it wasn't the right time yet. And thus, Wendy felt stuck in Tallahassee until Dan felt like it was the right time to leave. She felt like she really didn't have much of a say or a choice in that decision. Now let's turn to Wendy's character, female attorney Lily Walker Stone and her relationship with her husband, Josh. So Wendy starts off the first chapter that's focused on Lily. So like, just for some context, this is a book about Lily and then each, this is a book about Lily and what she's doing for work as an immigration lawyer. But each chapter is broken up. So one chapter will be called Lily. And then the other chapter will be the name of somebody else.

And the name of somebody else is who she's helping through her practice as an immigration lawyer and like their journey and what they're going through. And then they'll come back to Lily. So the first Lily chapter, Lily says, quote, Sometimes falling in love means doing things you wouldn't otherwise do when sober. I can think of no other explanation for all the ways that I have somehow agreed to change my life since I met Joshua Stone. I have no other reason to explain how I ended up in Van Buren County, Florida, smack dab in the Florida panhandle. For one thing, I now say things like smack dab. Suffice it to say,

I am not the Lily of yesteryear. I am a new Lily with two last names, but no hyphen, because frankly, I feel fragmented enough without burdening my surname and our potential offspring with that kind of baggage. End quote. Damn. She sounds thrilled to be married. Yeah. And again, it all ties back to Wendy laying down the first episode, Damn. She sounds thrilled to be married. close-knit family. And she was probably extremely proud, maybe still is extremely proud of the Adelson name, right? Like what that represented as a successful, affluent family, good-looking, talented, smart, successful, just very pride-filled coming from that name. And you can hear what she's saying here, where it's almost like, I'd much rather still be Wendy Adelson than Wendy Markell. You know, so-

She was Wendy Adelson. She didn't, you know? Well, she was Wendy Adelson. She didn't change her name when they got married. That's true. You're right. She didn't change her name. But were the kids, but the kids were Markells. Yes, of course. So the kids were Markells and that's what she's referring to saying, hey, listen, you

know, at the end of the day, I thought she was Markell, but she wasn't, huh? I know we're referring to her as Wendy Adelson now, but she never changed her name, huh? I do not believe that Wendy Adelson ever changed her name. So interesting. Well, let's go on to that. You're the researcher, so you're probably right there. And so, again, it comes to the situation where she's looking at her children who don't even share the same last name as her. And probably deep down, it really bothered her.

But I wonder if legally, did she go by Wendy Adelson? Was her legal name changed to wendy markel i wonder so i i really do not believe that she ever changed her last name and i will say that after dan was murdered she changed her son's last names from markel to adelson i knew that i knew that part well that's so interesting to me and this may get me in some shit, but I'm going to say it anyways because that's what we do, right? What's your thoughts on that? Like from just a general perspective of, you know, Wendy Adelson was not famous, right? So she wouldn't need to keep her name for that reason. Obviously she's a professional, but I'm interested to hear your thoughts and obviously everyone out there, your thoughts as well,

because I'm sure there's people in the comments who have done similar things or know people who have. What's your thought process on, you know, normally the woman will change their last name to reflect their husband's last name. What's your thought on the decision not to do that? What could be, first of all, what would be some reasons that make perfect sense to you why you wouldn't? I mean, in this situation, I think it goes back to what exactly you just said. The Adelson name was a point of pride for Wendy and for her family. She saw herself as an Adelson. And that's it. That's it. I don't think it had anything to do with her career. I just think she thought, like, this is the devil I know, I guess. Like, this is my last name. This is who I I've always been there's going to be a lot of

themes surrounding Wendy not feeling as competent when she was around Dan Wendy feeling that she maybe played second fiddle Wendy feeling that her career and her desires and her wants took the back burner because Dan was such a strong personality Wendy Wendy's going to feel, as Lily Walker Stone says, fragmented between, you know, the desire to be a wife and a mother and the desire to just like be her own person and make her own name and her own way in the world, not being like seen as someone's wife, being seen as her own specific entity. And after getting married and then having a child and then a year later, another child, most of her life is going to be surrounded and like consisting of that

familial aspect. Like you are a mother, you are with the kids, you take care of the kids' needs and things like that. Like it became less about what she personally wanted to do in life, what she professionally wanted to pursue. And I think that she really struggled with that transition and wasn't necessarily super happy with it. So Adelson was like the last vestige of holding on to that thriving, motivated, driven girl that she was throughout high school and college where nothing would stop her. And she was going all over and she was traveling the world and she was going to change the world. And now she's like, I was going to change the world. And now I'm a housewife in Tallahassee, Florida, of all places. Like, what's happening here? I don't like this. This is not what I wanted. And you'll see that represented in this fictional book that she writes. I think it really had to do with just like trying to hold on to who she was and not completely lose herself into this marriage and into this new role that had been laid out for her. And so keeping that name was a form of symbolism. Like, you know what, I might be losing the position that I thought I would be in in this relationship, but I will, I'm not going to lose my

name and what it represents to me. Like this will allow me to remember who I am, even through all of it. Like I am an Adelson. We don't give up and we don't lose. Is it common for, well, I know it's not common because like I said, I'm trying, I'm walking on landmines here, but what's your opinion on like, do a lot of women keep their names? Is that becoming more common now? I know that the hyphenation is a common thing. Like a lot of people will hyphen their names, you know, could have been Adelson Markel or Markel Adelson or something like that. But just to keep it straight up and say, hey, we're getting married. I'm keeping my name. You keep yours. Kids will be your name. Like, I don't know too many people who've done that. Really?

That's what I'm saying. Am I wrong? Am I just ignorant to it? Which is completely possible. It feels like a controversial thing to talk about, but I kept my last name. You're the perfect person to ask. See, and that's, that's my ignorance, right? Because just cause I haven't experienced it. And for you, obviously that's just cause you wanted to keep your name, right? Is that because I don't want to, what I'm trying to get at here and I'm doing a terrible job of it, by the way, is not villainizing cause we don't want to break down every single thing, right? Like about Wendy, where it's like, she decided to keep her, her last name. That was a sign right there. That's a red flag. I'm not suggesting that. So what, you know, if you don't

mind, what was your reasoning behind keeping your last name? Because it could very well be similar to why Wendy decided to keep it and had nothing malicious or, you know, nefarious behind it, just that she wanted to keep her last name. So, I mean, like if my husband had a cool last name so i mean like if my husband had a cool last name like a laser like laser or like frost or something cool i did not see you going there i would have changed it but like neither of our last names are really like pretty or musical or anything so it was oh my god it was kind of like this is the devil i know like i like and there there's other reasons that I don't want to talk about that fine yes yeah there's a few other reasons but one of the main things was like I had just had Aiden and then it was in after the wedding and I was supposed to be changing my name and like man you

have to go everywhere to do this by the way it's the worst you got to go to social security you got to do on your passport you got to go to a million freaking places. I had a baby who was three months old. I can't imagine myself going to the DMV and Social Security office and standing in line with a crying infant for three hours because you know it ain't never quick. To what? Change my name? I'm the same person. Changing my name isn't going to change anything. So what's the point? Like, I'm just going to keep it and save myself the stress and the time. But yeah. And if, but if it had been, if the name had been something cool, like a laser or frost or like something cool, I would, I probably would have stood in line to change.

So that's my takeaway here, guys. And it should be yours as well. Stephanie decided to keep her name because she didn't want to wait in line and it wasn't a cool enough name. It wasn't as cool, yeah. Maybe Wendy felt the same. That said, let's go off the rails here. Let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. All right, so we're back. We're still talking about Lily Walker Stone. She goes on to explain how when she met Josh at a mixer for young professionals in D.C., she thought he was great, except for the fact that he was her height. And she said, you know, before dating Josh, she had only considered men who were six feet two or over. But it was OK that she couldn't wear heels around Josh. Like, it's so weird.

Six, two or over? You've just eliminated like 70 to 80 percent of the male population. Who are you, Wendy? Who? I mean, Lily, who are you? But yeah, that was what she said. Yeah. Why? You're six foot. I'm under six, too. Yeah. But you're super tall, dude. Six one. I just didn't make the cut. She's like, nope, sorry, you're out. Like, I have to look up when I talk to you. I guess you're not. I guess you would have been eliminated. That's what I'm saying. I'm offended. I would have been eliminated from the pool. Yeah. And I think you should thank God for that. So later in the book, Lily recounts a rare moment

when Josh was with some other professors at a local hangout listening to a reading, and she was blissfully alone. And she says, quote, when you are single, you want to be married to have that special constant companionship. Then you are single, you want to be married to have that special constant companionship. Then you get married and you miss the alone time you used to have too much of, end quote. And like, once again, we're not villainizing. I totally feel this. This is 100% accurate, OK?

Totally understand. But it does show you a little bit like she's a blissfully happily married. This is not like, oh my God, this is all I've ever wanted was to be this man's wife. And I can't stand when he's away from me. I want to be together all the time. You know, this is not somebody who's like, she could have taken it or left it, right? So in the book, Josh has a little nickname for Lily. He calls her Lily Billy Goat. And Dan Markell, who I mentioned last episode, had a special little nickname for everything and everyone. In real life, he called Wendy his Osita, which in Spanish means little

bear. And you may say, well, why in Spanish? Apparently, Wendy Adelson was fluent in Spanish because she had taken it during college and then she spent that summer in, what did I say, Argentina, right? In Argentina. So she was fluent in Spanish, so he called her his Osita. Lily Walker Stone works as an immigration lawyer, and she says, quote, without my work, I would just be a woman who gave up her high-powered job to live in small town America with her man. That story is fine for someone else, but it isn't my story. I am Lily Walker Stone. I am now an immigration attorney first and someone's wife second, end quote. As the novel goes on, Lily becomes more and more disenchanted with her new husband, and she acknowledges her growing frustration with Josh, which has caused her to be

very moody and sometimes nagging with him. Quote, he has been yelled at for leaving his socks by the bed, forgetting to close the bathroom door so that I felt cold while taking a shower, and accidentally setting the alarm clock 20 minutes ahead so that I got less sleep than I wanted, end quote. Now, if these sound like personal experiences, like this is very specific, they might actually be, right? Because in real life, it was known that Wendy was constantly on Dan to help around the house more often. She felt that the bulk of the household chores always fell to her,

and Dan simply went around making messes for her to clean up, seemingly oblivious to the chaotic environment around him. Now, in the book, Josh and Lily also argue about having kids, even though prior to getting married, they'd both decided they wanted to start a family. Lily wonders if she got married and signed up for the whole white picket fence life simply because there had been something missing inside of her, but now her very important work had filled that hole, and she was not sure that she had the ability to put a child or anyone before herself or her career at this point. At one point, Josh says to Lily, listen, this is what we agreed to when we got married. You were going to turn over a new leaf and put us, meaning him and her, before work. I want you to love your work, but I want you to

love me more. So Lily decides to give it a shot, right? But after one night of unprotected sex, she finds herself feeling resentful. She passes on her coffee the next morning because she could be pregnant, but she finds herself feeling annoyed that Josh could continue drinking his coffee without a care in the world. Lily says that Josh was trying to be cute that morning, but it definitely wasn't working, and she finally let it all out over breakfast, telling Josh that she loved him, but she didn't want him to be her everything, and she didn't feel that she was ready to become a mother. And maybe she's trying to make Josh seem like a dick in this book, but he actually comes off as very caring and sweet and understanding, and really only through the private thoughts of Lily Walker Stone can we see how much he's

driving her crazy, how resentful of him she is. Lily talks about working seven days straight and neglecting Josh, but she said he never complained and she was too tired to care if he did. They do get into a fight one night after she got home really late and then she got into bed next to him and then basically Josh turns over and tells her

that he's proud of her and the work that she does, but he's her husband and he needs her. He needs her love. And Lily, as the narrator, says, quote, I tried with everything I had not to laugh at him, end quote. Then Lily becomes pregnant. Josh is over the moon, but she's struggling to feel positively about it. One night she comes home to Josh making her dinner and she talks about how he tried to kiss her and she pulled away. She said she was in no mood for him. When she finds out that he's making tuna, she goes off on him because she's pregnant

and there's certain foods she can't eat. And how could he be so clueless to not know that? After this, Lily describes Josh in not so great ways, referring to his sour breath when he got too close to her. Another time she comes home to Josh cooking dinner again and he was boiling water for spaghetti and she got annoyed because he asked her what did she want for dinner when he had clearly already started preparing spaghetti for dinner. And so she says she makes some like offhanded, like under her breath comment like, oh, so nice of you to ask me what I want for dinner when you've already, you know, started making dinner. And then he gets like kind of pissed off in return, which yeah, get that. I totally get that. So at some point, they sadly lose this baby. She has a miscarriage

and Lily begins picking more fights with Josh and the marriage deteriorates. They fight. Lily finds that Josh is shutting down and she mentions to him, maybe she'll go to D.C. and spend some time with her family. And he's like, that sounds fine. The door is right there. Lily asks herself in the book, quote, do I even love him anymore? Or did I just love the idea of being attached to something? End quote. I have to say, when I researched this case, because of what I was researching it for,

I'm more focused on the investigation. I'd known Wendy wrote a book, but that was the extent of it. I did not know the context of this book. And I guess my question for you would be, these stories are pretty specific. I'm sure they don't all line up. But I wonder if there's similarities between Lily's life, other than the ones we had already discussed as far as the geography of where she lived and what she did for a living and her dynamic with Josh. But do we know if there was any correlation between the sons that they eventually had?

Did she want children? Was that discussed between her and Dan? Was Dan not an attentive husband to her when she was pregnant? Those are the types of questions I would have. So it depends who you ask, right? If you ask somebody in the Dan camp, they're like, yo, there couldn't have been a more dedicated father, right? Like his house, his office was a shrine to those kids. He loved them when he had time off that he'd always be seen, you know, with them at the park. Cause there's like three parks within walking distance of their neighborhood. He'd always be at the park with them or at the pool, teaching them how to ride their bikes, things like that. Like he was very, very involved in their lives. And from his social media presence and from the way he talks about them on the blog and things like that does

come across. But as far as Wendy's concerned or anyone kind of in her camp, he traveled too much. He worked too much. Even when he was home, he was still working and he wasn't like actually present. And she didn't think he was as involved in their children as she was. And did she want children? Now, all right. So here's what I honestly think. I don't know if Wendy wanted children because remember, she's young when she's having these kids too. In her early 30s, I would say, like maybe late 20s. Yeah, late 20s, early 30s.

She's young. She's basically just a couple years out of law school. Her career hasn't really even taken off yet. Any job that she's getting, she's getting through Dan. So she feels like she's not really making a name for herself. And I think once she realized like, oh, I can do stuff, like I have the ability to actually make real change and help people, she'd already sort of gotten herself into this married life with kids. So it's not that I would never, ever say that she didn't love her sons. I think and I truly believe she loved her two sons more than anything in the world.

Once you have your children and they're there, it's like, yeah, there's nothing better, right? But I think there was some pressure on her from Dan and from her own mother, Donna Sue, to have children. Because remember, Donna Sue loves those grandbabies. She needs them. She needs them. They're her world. And I know people like this, right? They pour everything they have into their children when their children are young. Their

children are their entire world. And then the kids get older, right? They become like 13, 14. They're less interested in hanging out with mom and giving their mother the validation that some of these mothers need. And I don't mean normal mothers. I mean like narcissistic mothers who sort of create their entire identity around the identity of their children. And then what happens in that scenario is the mother is going to continue to try and exert her will onto this child who's now growing and developing a life and a personality and a mind of their own, which varies from that of the mother. Maybe political beliefs are different, or maybe, you know, we all know how these kids are like 14, 15, and they start

doing things that you as a parent wouldn't, but they're expressing their independence. They're figuring out who they are. And some parents don't like that, and they try to exert their will on their kid and keep them back on the path and keep them close to them. Now, what mothers like that love is when those children have children, because now you have a whole set of fresh new babies who can become your entire world and identity and fill your Facebook page with. And now you are invested and wrapped around these new babies, right? And they're going to keep this cycle going for as long as possible. And that's why I think, you know, Robert had kids, but they were estranged. Charlie Adelson, who the hell knows what's going on with that guy? We're going

to talk about him, but he's not having kids right away at this point. Now, never, probably. No, definitely, definitely never. Wendy was the last chance for grandchildren that Donna could be close to, right? Yeah. I think there was pressure on Wendy to get married, have kids, do this. For multiple people, for multiple sources. Yeah, no, it makes a lot of sense

when you think about Wendy. Well, first off, I don't think it's a reach to say that the initial part, the foundation of this book was predicated or at least loosely based on her own life.

I think, again, it's an assumption on our part. I don't think she's ever, you did talk about it a little bit, but she's never said, yeah, these are based on my life, these characters. No, she said, I selfishly wanted some of me to be in Lily. But she said, a lot of things are the same, not everything, of course. I know she admitted. Yeah, she admitted. But there's something there. And so I don't know if it's an exact match, but I think when you think about Wendy as a person growing up and the goals, dreams, aspirations she had in the trajectory she was on, she's going to be a CEO of a company one day. I mean, that's a direction she's going.

She is definitely on the course to be very successful and very well known for herself for her own accomplishments. And then she meets Dan, who is equally on the same path. And it becomes a situation where only one is going to get to live their dream while the other one is going to have to stay home and raise the kids. The bulk of the parenting, yeah. Right. And traditionally, you look at the role, obviously that's changed now, but with Markel's family was probably more so in line because his career had taken off a little bit faster. Where it was like, okay, I'm already doing well. No need for you to.

You can step back here. I got this. I'll do the work. You stay home and raise the kids. I don't even think he ever said that because she wasn't staying home and raising the kids. I definitely don't think he said that. But there might have been some implication from outside sources where it's like, listen, he's well. He's successful.

He's got the jumpstart earlier. Well, he can't have the kids himself. So you stay home. You have the kids. And I'm sure maybe in his mind, he would have been perfectly happy with her just staying home as a stay-at-home mom and raising the kids. I don't know if he would have, right? Because he was drawn to her because of her ambition. And he wanted her to do well.

And he always was very proud of any successes that she had. And by the way, I'm not saying in a negative way. No, I know. He could be looking at it as a situation where he's going to provide for the family and they're doing very well. And she doesn't need to work if she doesn't want to. She can just focus on her passions, her book, her writing, whatever. But to the point of where we are now, I think she looked at the situation once she had her children and again probably not an exact match to what happened to Lily in the book and Josh but maybe the kids to her represented a path that she really didn't want to be on she wanted to maybe have children yeah but not at the expense of her own ambitions and by having those children

it was like indirectly signing a contract. Like she signed up to raise the children while Dan goes off to work. And that's not what she had originally planned. But after the fact, what do you do? And so could it be a situation where not only did she fall out of love with Dan, but also just the path in which their family dynamic was going, she wanted to blunt force, stop that immediately and really make a drastic change to hopefully correct, you know, course correct so that she could be a loving mom, but also still go on to do what she wanted to do with her life and not live in the shadow of Dan, even though Dan was not trying to do that in the first place.

Yeah, I think she probably felt like in hindsight, you know, like Lily Walker Stone is writing in hindsight for Wendy and then lots of people do this. And it's a there's a big societal pressure to do it as well. Right. I agree 100 percent, especially in the Adelson family, too. It was like achieve, achieve, achieve. But then once you've done all these achievements, pop out babies and get married. And it's like I do. I will say I think it's a total waste for somebody with Wendy's intelligence, potential and drive to just a couple of years out of law school before her life has even started, before her her ambitions are even realized. You start having kids. That is a very big waste of potential and a big waste of somebody who probably could have contributed to the world in a positive way through her work. So it's this constant like push and pull as a woman. Some women want to just be mothers. And I don't mean just be mothers. I'm going to get shit for that. Like just be a mother. I mean, only want to be a mother. That is what they want. That is what they love. It is their life's work.

It is their passion. They feel completely fulfilled doing it. Some women don't. That doesn't mean they don't want to have kids. It just means that they don't want to see themselves only as a mother, only as a wife, which is what Lily Walker Stone is saying here. I am going to be this first and a wife second. I have more in me. This is not what I was meant for. That might be fine for other people, but not for me. I have a fire raging in me and I have to do something with it. But when you're young and your mom's over here, find yourself a nice Jewish man and give me some grandbabies. And then you meet the man and he's all about family values and I can't wait to have my own kids. And then you'll get caught up in that and you'll be like, yes, I love him and I want to give him children.

I want to be the mother of his children. And then it all happens. And then you realize, damn, being a mother to his children means that I have to sacrifice everything that I've basically spent the last decade of my life preparing for. What was the point in all of that?

Going to Brandeis, going to the UK, going to Argentina, finding all of these things and these paths I wanted. What was the point in that? Because this is going to, having young children, two young children, is going to take up the bulk and the majority of your spare time and personal pursuits get put on the back burner. So I completely understand that in hindsight, she was feeling that way, not in a resentful way towards her children, but like a resentful way towards I walked into this life, not realizing what it fully meant. And if I could go back, I would probably choose differently. No, I get it. And by the way, no villain. This happens to a lot of people that they feel this

way. It doesn't make them bad people. It just ultimately, we only get one life to live. You want to live it the way you want to live it. And you don't want to have regret down the road. She's still young. She has an opportunity to change where she's heading. She doesn't want to go there with Dan. Nothing wrong with the divorce. Would I have handled it differently than the way she did? I think most people would. I don't think it was done the right way. But we're going to keep going. Remember who's in her corner, instructing her on what to do. A whole nother dynamic. I was going to, you know, we didn't even touch on that yet, but this was not a single job. There was some premeditation. There was some planning and I would put my life on it that it was a collective effort, probably amongst Donna Sue, Charles Harvey. There was probably a lot of people who had input, but we're going to get to it all. We still got another him packing his bags to leave. And he's

like, I can't do this anymore. Like, I need some time. I need some space. Like, you're not happy, blah, blah, blah. He leaves. They're separated. They see each other later, and they have an exchange of words. And Josh asks Lily about this baby, Anna, quote, so she's yours now, officially? And Lily responds, quote, yes, name changed and all. And then Josh asks if Lily named the baby Anna Stone. And she responds, quote, no, Josh, Anna Walker, like her mom. I said the last sentence slowly and with as much kindness as I could muster. Josh and I had separated, but we hadn't talked about anything official yet, like name changes or divorce. Josh, I'm going to change my last name back to Walker once we've finalized.

And then Josh cuts in, right? He interrupts and he says, so that's it, Lily? It's over? And I don't even get a say? And Lily says, he looked equal parts sad and combative. I tried to be gentle. I'm so sorry, Josh, for everything, and I'm grateful to you for bringing me to this place, for giving me wings to try something new, and for all the unpredictable experiences that I have followed. I reached across the table to take his hands and mine, but he pulled them away and folded his arms defiantly instead. I took a deep breath and tried again. Josh, my life is going in a different direction now, and Anna and me, well, we'll have So quite dramatic. And this goes along the side of there may be something in there that she's getting to as far as getting her name back both literally and figuratively like yeah she keeps

coming back to the name thing she says she talks about it multiple times the name is more than just the name it's what it represents that independence it represents individuality her yeah yeah her without being enmeshed into this marriage in this family life thing that she didn't really want to be completely absorbed by and lost into. Right. So although she didn't actually adopt a child in her real life, there is some significance where the conversation that's being had is coming from a place of maybe some personal feelings, some personal take on what the name means to her. You know what else I think is significant? Because she didn't adopt a baby in real life, but she has two children in real life. So Lily tells Josh, her and Anna are going to forge their own path now, right? And although in real life, Wendy didn't have an adopted daughter named Anna, she's got her two sons, Benjamin and Lincoln. And

as we're going to find out, it kind of seems like that's exactly what she wanted to do. It's kind of like she just wanted to erase Dan and then just keep the kids and forge their own new path in South Florida with her parents, right? And Dan would stay in Tallahassee and do his thing and he would be fine with that. You know, it's fine. You're just going to it felt like she felt like these kids are like an extension to me. They're part of me. They go where I go. And we are going to forge our own path now without you in it. And that would have been the ideal situation for her, honestly.

I'm glad you're bringing this up because we're as we're going to start getting into the investigation and motive, this is a critical component. Because I think when Wendy left, you just laid it out perfectly. Not going to repeat it. She wanted to leave and segment and fragment the lives where she was going to take the kids with her and start her own situation. And if Dan would have went along with that, things might've been fine. But obviously- Why would he? She's trying to take his kids and move seven hours away, right? Go along with it. But I'm just putting it out there because of what was being said here. I think the intention was, hey, I'm raising them anyways. You're off working. I'll continue doing that. You

can see them when you can. Obviously, Dan was not on board with that, which is going to which is a big reason why we're all sitting here today reviewing this case. Correct. And if anyone thinks that Josh Stone reacted badly to the news that his wife, Lily, wanted to divorce, Dan Markell would not be outdone. This Is Our Story, Wendy's book, came out in 2011, which is the same year that Wendy first brought up the subject of divorce with Dan. And reportedly, he had told her, you can go. You can find your way to the door, do whatever you want. But I'm going to be staying in this house and my children are going to be staying with me. Now, around that time, Wendy was telling friends that she was just not in love with Dan anymore. In fact, she said she didn't even like him anymore and she wanted out.

She didn't feel like an equal. His work and his career were always more important than anything she wanted to do or anything that was going on in her life. In the divorce paperwork, Wendy's lawyer said that she was divorcing Dan due to her unhappiness with him in the marriage, and the only reason she'd moved out of the house was because she knew he would not. Wendy also filed an emergency petition in January of 2013 asking the court to allow her to relocate with her sons to her parents' home in South

Florida. She said the boys would have a lot of family support there, and she'd been offered a position at a law firm where she would be making more money and have opportunities for advancement. Wendy also wanted full custody after the divorce, claiming that Dan traveled a lot and he had not been the primary caretaker of the boys. On June 18th, this request was denied, and Wendy was told that she would be sharing custody of the kids with Dan equally. Not only that, she was going to be prohibited from moving away from where Dan was until both of her boys were 18. And keep in mind, her youngest son Lincoln was only two at that point. So that meant if Dan decided to stay in Tallahassee for the next 16 years, Wendy was going to be stuck in Tallahassee for the next 16 years. And not only could Wendy not have that because she hated it there, her parents, especially Donna Sue, her mother, that was not going to be doable.

I was just going to say Donna Sue would also have to still be back in there. And this is where things, I'm sure, when the planning was going on, Wendy was being told by relatives and maybe business associates, people, lawyers that they had on staff or whatever that, hey, listen, you do it this way, more than likely you'll get full custody and be all set. I don't know why anybody would have told her that. Well, she obviously thought when she filed it that it was a chance of it going through. And clearly it didn't. And I'm sure that was not part of the plan i'm sure it wasn't part of the plan to up and leave the house leave the divorce papers on the bed and then file at the court and then the court tell you to basically go pound sand and that not only are you not going to get full custody of the kids but oh by the way even though you separated, you're still going to be stuck in Tallahassee because that's where Dan works. That's where he's established himself.

And you signed up for it. You were married at the time when it happened. So guess what? Even though you're divorced, you're not going anywhere for a very long time. I'm sure that was not part of the plan. So what does that mean now? Like, what does that mean for Wendy? There's the life that she has that she's clearly not happy with in the life that she wants. That's right there, right?

She's got this job offer. She's got her mom, by the way, is painting all of these pictures for her and emails like, oh, like, it's going to be so great. You'll come live with us. We got plenty of room for you. I'll get to see the kids every single day. We have a maid. So you'll have to do less housework. Like, isn't that nice not to have to clean up after people for once? And we have this and we're going to do this. And she's like painting this whole. So this whole glittering future is right there for Wendy. She can literally grab it. And the one thing standing in her way is Dan Markell. Bingo. So Dan had obviously retained a divorce attorney. But of course, as was his personality,

it wasn't long before he decided that this lawyer knew nothing. And Dan took over most of the legal work himself, including writing the briefs, which anyone can see when reading through these documents, because the words in there are sometimes just dripping with like resentment and like venom. Like he's pissed. In actuality, he's devastated, like emotionally devastated. But he, as many people do when they feel sad or hurt, it comes out as anger, right? So Dan wrote that despite being a lawyer and a law professor, and despite her legal and professional obligations to act in a manner that reflects honesty, trustworthiness, and fitness to be a lawyer, Wendy was doing some shady things,

such as filing a false and misleading financial disclosure form. So sharing information about your finances with your spouse is a requirement for getting divorced because it allows both parties to make informed decisions when it comes to like division of property and finances as well as spousal and child support. And Dan claimed that Wendy had just made some bad decisions when filing her financial paperwork. She'd omitted her retirement account, which was worth over $140,000. She had omitted an account she had with Charles Schwab, which he believes was worth around $70,000. She had understated her salary by several thousand dollars, and she listed the value of her car and personal possessions as being $0. And Dan's like, what the hell is this, man? He's like, what are you trying to do here? And apparently that Charles Schwab account

had previously been at like a different bank and then she specifically moved it to Charles Schwab so that Dan would it would not have access to it basically anymore like so he couldn't see what was in there almost as if she was trying to hide it I guess right trying to hide the money trying to hide the money which we see in a lot of divorces, again, not uncommon when people are separating, they're trying to hold on to all their assets, all their income, and in some cases take income and assets of others. And that's where the whole, that's where this thing gets really messy. Children and finances. That's what makes divorces the worst thing on the planet. That's what makes them difficult. But not everybody is married to a lawyer, right? Yeah, a good one at that. One that actually teaches law.

And not only that, one that now has a personal vendetta to see that you don't get what you want. Yeah, not a good combination. No. No. So Dan also alleged that Wendy had raided their safety deposit box on the day she left. She had taken his great aunt's diamond ring. Remember the two carat diamond ring that he had proposed to her with? And Wendy had helped herself to over $600,000 in cash, liquid equities, and other assets. Dan wrote that Wendy's wealthy parents had placed her in a financial cocoon and they were bankrolling her legal fees. Quote, if she wanted to leave the marriage because she fell out of love, that's one thing.

But she could have done so without taking more than the necessity so that proper and fair distribution could have immediately followed, Dan stated in one of the briefs. Which I agree. Like, I do think it's kind of shady. And yo, Wendy, your parents have money. You're going to get a new job. You want to make your own way in the world. You want to be your own woman.

You want to keep your last name. You want to blaze your own path. Then do that. But you're leaving somebody that you did tell, you told him you would be with him forever till death do us part. There's going to be some feelings. And I feel like often when people are ready

to leave a marriage, they behave in a way that doesn't understand their partner is kind of just playing catch up at this point. Like they're not understanding what's happening. They don't want the marriage to end. But because the one person wants it to end so badly, they're just like done with it. And they act in a way that's sort of insensitive. You should not be trying to get away with things in a divorce. And you definitely shouldn't be trying to do that when your husband, who's a talented lawyer and a brilliant, like what, arguer, debater, somebody who has dedicated

their life to basically making sure they can argue any side of any argument, you shouldn't do that in that situation because it's just gonna make it worse. Be fair, be honest, and then the chips fall where they fall, and then you start your new life path the way you want, you know, at that point. But we also have to understand, Dan's not letting her do what she wants.

Dan's not letting her go to South Florida. So maybe at this point, she's like, well, I'm just going to take whatever I can get. It's one of those things. If you're not going to give me what I want, I'm just going to take from you wherever I can. It also could have been a strategy based on what her legal team was telling her where it's a form of leverage, right? Like if the money- Can they do that? That's illegal. Isn't that illegal? You can try it, right? When you're talking about the distribution of assets and income, there could be an agreement, a negotiation through mediation where basically the discussion is, hey, listen, big element of this. So when I say this, I'm saying it because I do kind of know the story and I know some of the lengths that were taken

to try and get Wendy and the kids back to South Florida. So could this have been the prerequisite to that where it was like, hey, let's try this approach first, where we'll dangle this carrot of financial assets and income over his head. Hopefully during the negotiation process, he'll agree that if these things are important to him, she'll give them up because let's be honest, behind closed doors, like you said, she doesn't need it. But what she ultimately really wants is the children. And she's hoping that by doing this, Dan will agree to let her move back home in exchange for these finances and assets. But again, miscalculation on the part of Wendy and her team.

And this isn't the only attempt they make at this. The attempt to try to figure this out. It gets a lot more aggressive to say this. And underhanded and disrespectful, I would say. Yeah, there's a lot more to come. And then there's a last ditch effort to try to get the relocation to go through. I don't know if we're going to get into that tonight. We are, yeah.

Okay, we are going to get into it. You guys are going to be shocked by that one. So I'm going to shut up. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back. With Trial to Decide on the Divorce was scheduled for July 31st, and Wendy and Dan attended mediation for two weeks beforehand, and they basically battled it out that whole time. They battled it out right until the day of the trial.

On July 24th, Dan accepted Wendy's offer. So she'd made him an offer. He thought about it for a day or two, and then he came back to mediation. He accepted it. But as soon as he accepted it, she retracted the offer and said she'd rather try her luck with the judge. Dan said his trial preparations had been impeded by these extended negotiations and Wendy's 11th hour refusal to accept an offer she had made to him just two days prior to him accepting it. 18 hours before the trial began, Dan and Wendy finally reached an agreement. They would share

custody 50-50, and any disputes would be resolved by a parenting coordinator assigned by the court. Dan got the house, but he had to pay $120,000 to Wendy, along with $841 a month. Investment accounts, vehicles, and other properties were divided between them, and Wendy was well aware that she had no chance of leaving Tallahassee behind because she was forbidden from moving away with her children. But at the same time this is all going on, at the same time that Dan's writing these, like, very heavy accusatory legal briefs, he's also writing out long emails asking Wendy to reconsider. Come back to him. He would make any changes that she wanted him to make. He would try his hardest. He would make her happy. He promised. I read a story where he got a radio

and found her and he played a song and he got down in one knee and he like begged her to come back. So he wants to keep his family together. But every time she's like, no, and he can tell she's done, he's getting angry. To his friends and anyone who would listen, Dan seemed to be a wreck. He'd often just break down crying. And he referred to Wendy leaving as a plundering, a visgoth-like sacking of their marital home and a part of a Pearl Harbor style separation, an attack he had not seen coming and could not have been prepared for. He uses the term Pearl Harbor to describe the, you know, Wendy leaving and the separation and the whole divorce all the time. All the time. He says Pearl Harbor, Pearl Harbor.

And you can tell that's why. He was like, you know, because Pearl Harbor was attacked, Hawaii, during World War II. No one saw it coming. No one knew it was happening. So they were all just sitting there sunning themselves. They're in, you know, sunny Hawaii. And then all of a sudden, out of the sky, all these planes are dropping bombs. It's terrible. It was completely unexpected, and they had no defense for it. And that's how he feels about Wendy leaving. Yeah, I mean, that's a really dramatic way of describing it. Your divorce and the way it happened to Pearl Harbor. He loved her, man. Okay. His heart was broken. Have you been to Pearl Harbor? Have I been i been to pearl harbor no but i know everything about pearl harbor and world war ii i went out there it's incredible anyways i bet it's really i bet it's really pretty went out to the u.s arizona stood

on the u.s on the uh the memorial out there so sad bought a flag so they hang flags on the u.s arizona every single day multiple times a day i have a flag that's from the december the 75th anniversary so that flag was hung on december you told me this yeah incredible probably one of my prized possessions anyways i have it but i mean yeah i i yes was it was it a little like dramatic, but he probably felt dramatically. He's crying all the time in front of people. People said that's all he could talk about. Like, even if they tried to say he couldn't focus on his work, he missed his kids. You know, he didn't really know where they were for several weeks. Like he one day he's like, I'm a married man with a home and two children and everything's going great. And the next he's like alone in this house that doesn't even have like beds in it. Every sign of his wife and his sons is gone from this house. And he's all like suddenly just living a completely different life. And he had no idea it was coming. Right. So I get the Pearl Harbor reference for sure. I also think there's a good lawyers, not a bad thing, a flair for the dramatic, right? Like an

ability to describe something in a way that it's impactful, something that everyone can understand. Most people know what Pearl Harbor is. So when you describe it as that type of feeling and how it felt and how caught off guard you were, which is what Pearl Harbor is really about. Again, it was the element of surprise where it was so unexpected. Obviously the attack itself was horrific. Yeah, it was horrific, but they did not see it coming. And he's trying to describe his situation as saying, I had no clue this was in the works, which speaks more to the fact that they never even tried to work it out.

That's what his argument is. Like, he knew there were issues, but never to the point where it ultimately got. And he was trying to understand what the real motive is behind all of this. And I bet you if I had to guess, he probably knew that it had a little bit to do, as most people do, it had a little bit to do with their family as well, that they were influencing the situation. A hundred percent. And that's going to also make you feel like powerless. It's going to make you feel a little bit like, well, she's got all this

support and they're like actively involved in these attacks on me. And I'm kind of sitting here like I didn't have any preparation for this. She filed she signed the divorce papers before he even left the city, you know, like she had planned all of this. There's going to be not only this level of loss, but this level of like intense betrayal, like your husband and wife. It's supposed to be you against the world, even when it comes to your immediate family, like your parents and things like that. Still, you should always be choosing your spouse over any of those external factors, because if you're not strong as a unit, then the family's not strong, your family,

your specific family, the foundation's crumbling. And so he's thinking it's like us against the world. And now he comes to find she's planning with her parents to basically destroy him, right? To destroy him, to take everything that he values away from him. And so, yes, he's going to be vacillating between just devastation and sadness and anger and betrayal. And I mean, this goes on, right, for a long time, this separation and then the divorce. And then there's issues with like the kids after. So even after the divorce is finalized, they're still fighting and they would be fighting not with each other, but through these legal briefs and motions. And so like Wendy's lawyer would file something. It would be like, husband is like abusive and husband is does this and that. And then Dan would respond and be like, well, wife this and wife that. And like, it just

was very ridiculous and personal. And every time Dan sent out a new brief or a written response to any claims that Wendy had made, he would be sending them to Wendy's lawyer. And then the lawyer would forward them to Wendy. And she would also forward them to the people who were paying Wendy's legal bills, which were Harvey and Donna Sue Adelson. Donna Sue was not happy when she read allegations from Dan that Wendy could not be trusted to have the best interests of Benjamin and Lincoln at heart. Dan said that Wendy was using their children as pawns. And so as Donna Sue is getting these responses from Dan through Wendy's lawyer, Donna Sue would email her daughter advice or orders, depending on how you look at it. And basically, she would be telling Wendy what to do, how to behave, how to respond, what she should do to counter Dan's attacks.

Wendy's mother specifically bristled at the court order blocking Wendy from moving with the boys. And Donna Sue called Dan a narcissist. She said he was emotionally and verbally abusive and a religious zealot. Now, these emails show that Donna Sue had no problem getting in the dirt and, you know, doing whatever it took, using whatever resources were at her disposal to make sure that her daughter did not lose one single battle. And some of the things that are said by Donna Sue to Wendy are honestly Wendy would be able to relocate or not, Donna Sue emailed Wendy telling her that a lot about how this was all going to go would depend on how well Wendy could preform slash act. Donna Sue said, quote, you can be a good actress when you want to. I've seen you in action. You need to put on the performance of your life. Gibbers hasn't beaten the Adelson family yet, end quote.

So Gibbers, right? Let's talk about Gibbers. Because Dan's not the only person that gives people nicknames. When Wendy was talking about Dan with her family, they all called him Gibbers because he talked so much. Donna Sue also wrote that their family had been putting a lot of time and money and energy into this whole divorce. And she told Wendy, quote, it's time for you to show us that you can put on the performance

of your life, end quote. So basically, Donna Sue's saying, hey, we're bankrolling a lot of this. And she even says, like, you know, your brother Charlie, he's got too much going on for this. He has devoted so much time and money to help you and to help get this going in your favor. And your father and I have put a lot of money into this, and we're all very invested in this. And now it's your time to do your part, go into that courtroom, put on the performance of your life. Yeah, knowing how this ends up going. And again, I'm looking at it from a detective's perspective. I mean, the family dynamic, it is what it is, but there's some

things that are going to come up where you're going to see the certain players that were involved, as we know right now, in Dan Markle's murder. And as I said, at the top of episode one, there's individuals who have not been charged with any crime yet. And so I'm looking at this family dynamic of what led up to it as maybe an indication to who might've been pulling the strings or who might've been involved in the plot to murder Dan Markle. And so I will say when it comes to Wendy in this particular situation, it does appear that she is more of a follower than a leader in all of this. And that Donna Sue is the captain of the ship. And it feels like there is some form of pressure as you described it, or manipulation where there's some guilt tripping

going on, letting Wendy know how much of the family is putting into this, you know, how much of the family dynamic is it contributing to getting her the children in South Florida and letting her know that it may all be predicated on her ability to lie? I wouldn't say perform. I think perform is a light way of putting it. That's a way of putting it without saying lie. But that's what she's saying. Hey, listen, you're going to have to bullshit this one in order to get this through. We're going to do what we can on our end by using our muscle and our money to get this done. But you're going to have to go in there and pull your weight and you're going to have to get your hands dirty. That's how I'm reading it between the lines.

Yeah, I would say so. not only because of what we're talking about right this second, but how we're going to dissect the overall crime that takes place later and who is held accountable for that crime. Because there are a lot of opinions about this case regarding who has been charged and who hasn't. And it's a very polarizing discussion because not a lot of people agree. Like it's definitely half and half. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you guys really need to follow this part of it

because this may give you some insight into the dynamic and who is in charge and who is kind of just told, you know, does what they're told. So, and I honestly, I feel bad for Wendy. I feel bad for Wendy. I do too, to a certain degree, up to this point, hearing this point, I have to agree with you. In this dynamic, because all the things we're going to talk about that Donna Sue is going to say, you should do this, you should do this. Most of the time, Wendy came back and was like, no, I'm not going to do that. Like she did stand up. But there's only so long when somebody is literally bankrolling your divorce and like has a direct line to your lawyer and has so much involvement in your life where you can't deal, especially if you've grown up in this environment and with this dynamic, you can't keep saying no. You can't keep standing up for yourself. I feel bad for Wendy because I genuinely feel that she got married to the wrong person. She got stuck in a life she didn't really want. She realized that in hindsight, and she just didn't want to be married to him anymore. And that's fine. That's absolutely fine. But now her family is putting

all of this pressure on her. And Dan is putting all of this pressure on her. And in a way, Wendy Adelson was stuck in the middle of that. She just wants to live her freaking life, right? She's stuck in the middle of it. And she has like the fact I'm reading you maybe 5% of what was exchanged between Wendy and Donna Sue. The fact that like somebody would I'm reading you maybe 5% of what was exchanged between Wendy and Donna Sue. The fact that like somebody would be talking to you like this and like it's almost demeaning and condescending. I know you can be a good actress when you want to be. Like it's kind of rude to say like if my mom said that I'd be like, what? Like what does that mean?

Like you think I'm manipulative and a liar like you? Like why would you say that to me? You know, like that's kind of like a low blow, kind of like a dig, like a passive aggressive dig. I know you can be a good actress when you want to be. Like, I've seen you do it. Like, whoa, you know? And Wendy wants the same things in a way as her mother, but she's not willing to use the same methods that her mother would use, which I think is admirable considering that she grew up in this very toxic dynamic of control and manipulation and narcissistic kind of tendencies. Very important questions that are still being answered as we're recording this episode. Because again, like I said, there are people on both sides of the aisle as far as where Wendy actually is in that hierarchy. And that last sentence that Donna Sue said, Jibbers hasn't beaten the Adelson family yet.

Once again, it kind of comes back to what we talked about in episode one. First of all, the Adelson's love to win. They don't want to lose. They don't want to lose. He hasn't beaten us yet. There's kids involved here, man. There's like kids. This isn't a game to be won or lost, right? And Donna Sue's honestly not looking at it as a game. She's looking at it as a war, a war in which she cannot lose any single battle because that's going to take away like the traction that they have. And she says, Gibbers hasn't beat the Adelson family yet. Not Gibbers hasn't beaten you,

the Adelson family. They're one. They're a unit. Everything that happens to one of them happens to all of them. They're unhealthily enmeshed in a way where any individualistic thought or action might be considered like,

oh, you went against the family. Let's take our last break and we'll be right back. So then Donna Sue tells Wendy, here, I have a great idea. Let's offer Dan $1 million so he'll give us the green light for you to bring the kids to South Florida. She said, Wendy, you put in a third, me and your father will put in a third, and your brother, Charlie, will put in the last third. Let's do that. That's a great idea. Now, once again, depending on the source, who knows how this went. Some sources claim that Wendy was like, no, I'm not going to do that. other sources claim that this offer was brought to dan but he obviously turned down because he's like no i'm not gonna sell you my children for a million dollars are you crazy like the audacity for you to even make this offer is blowing my mind but yeah that was a big thing and once again it goes back to the adelson family felt like there was nothing they couldn't do, nothing they couldn't achieve if they didn't

have their money and their power to throw at it. Nothing was unavailable to them. Nobody could say no. People could try to say no, but then you just up the ante, right? You up the pressure. You up the offer of the money. Eventually, they're going to say yes, right? But no, not Dan, because unlike the Adelson family, he had morals and values. He had a very real need and desire and placed a lot of importance on his family and specifically his sons. So no, he's not going to sell you his kids for a million dollars. Absolutely not. And it probably, if that offer was brought to him, probably really offended him. Honestly, it probably felt like a huge slap in the face and a big disrespect. So this is where what I said earlier comes full circle, right? Where I think that maybe there's an elevation of aggressiveness as far as negotiation, right? You start low and then you offer a little bit. You know what your top price is, right?

But you don't start with that. And I feel like through their high-powered attorneys and whatever advice they were getting, legal advice they were getting, they said, listen, first off, we go after joint assets, right? We basically hold hostage against him, his own assets, right? Even though as ridiculous as it sounds, we're going to first say, hey, we're going to take all this off the table right now. We are willing to put it back on in exchange for the custody of the children and the location of the children. Well, that doesn't work, right? And they realize maybe by that crackpot legal team that they're talking to behind the scenes that this isn't going to work. Dan's too smart for this. He's too well-versed. He's

going to destroy this. So that's not going to work, right? They try to get them, the kids moved to South Florida. That doesn't work. So now they're getting a little bit more desperate. They're starting to come back with a top offer. And as you said earlier, they're a unit, they work together and they have been in a position throughout their lives where everyone has a price, right? Everyone has something where you can say, listen, I understand you have your morals and ethics, but how about this amount of money? We want this. We're going to do whatever we need to do to get it. We're willing to give you a million dollars in order to make it happen because we basically want those kids here with us. And there's no amount of money too high. Obviously they make that offer. Dan refuses. so now they're in uncharted territory dan can't be bought there's no amount of money they realize that they can use to influence dan into doing something that's not in

the for the best interest of his children in his mind he wants his kids he's successful enough he doesn't need the money this is an adversary they haven't faced before. So this is where things get changed for them because up to this point in their lives, this has kind of been the final straw where they all have to do is just slap someone in the face with a ton of money and the Adelsons get their way. But what happens when they don't? What happens when someone says no? And that's why we're covering this case, because Dan said no. What happens when someone says no to the Adelson's? What happens when they can't be bought this person?

That's right. I'll tell you. I'll tell you what happens. The tactics become basically like terroristic, honestly. So another idea that Donna Sue had was for Wendy to act out emotional terrorism on Dan. Donna Sue wanted Wendy to convince Dan that she was going to raise their sons, Benjamin and Lincoln, as Catholics, even though both the Markells and the Adelsons were Jewish. Donna Sue told Wendy to post pictures on Facebook of her sons standing in front of a Catholic church. And then she wrote, quote, within minutes, Gibbers should either see this or will be getting calls from his friends about this. Hmm. How happy do you think he will be? End quote. There were also other plans that Donna Sue was coming up with. She said, let's plan an actual Catholic baptism

and send invites to Dan and his family. They will be pissed. Isn't that going to be great? They will be so upset. I can't wait. Let's do this, right? And in this email, Donna Sue ended the message with, quote, take control from him. Get to him psychologically. He's going to want you to stop this. End quote. Real quick here. Stephanie ain't making this up. You heard her right. This is all in writing in an email. So this is the type of person you're dealing with. This isn't speculation on our part. This isn't conjecture. This isn't us just giving our opinions. These are her words. It's disgusting.

That's who Donna Sue Adelson is. Yeah. And it's like, what's the most important thing to Dan in the world? His faith. All right. Let's completely try to destroy him using that. That's horrible. That's horrible, dude. Horrible.

I was reading these and I was like, what? And then I swear, I swear I got triggered so many times because this reminds me of somebody I know. And I was like, this is some garbage like behavior. It's real bad. Donna Sue emphasized that Wendy had to do everything she could to minimize Dan's influence over his own children. Because when the boys got old enough, they would be able to decide who they lived with. So she's like, you don't want this

religious zealot, like having all of this like influence on your sons, you know, right now it's like, oh, we got to go to temple every week and we have to eat kosher. The next time you see them, they're going to be training to be little rabbis. Like what's going to be next? Is this what you want? So she's like using scare tactics and fear tactics, coming up with all these crazy scenarios about what's going to happen to the kids if Wendy lets Dan have too much influence on them. But that's their father. So pretty bad. Now, Wendy usually pushed back against these manipulation tactics, but Donna Sue was relentless. She told Wendy to fight. She said, stand up to this fucker. Once again, her words, her words. What a

nice little, you know, middle-aged lady pretending to be so sweet in an email. Stand up to this fucker. Like, wow. When Wendy told her mother that a divorce wasn't about winning or losing, Donna Sue replied, quote, well, it is about winning and losing. We're trying to get you a win. You deserve it. You deserve so much more than a life without family teaching in Tallahassee, end quote. Like I said, there's so much more, so much more. But let me just summarize it by saying that you can clearly tell that Donna Sue Adelson hated Dan Markell, resented him, loathed the very ground he walked on and everything he stood for and believed in. And she had no issue with literally destroying him if that's what it took to get what she wanted. In fact, she probably would have been pleased if the whole thing ended

with Dan completely destitute and alone, his life in a shambles around him, right? She probably also wanted that. She not only wanted to take his kids seven hour drive away, but if she could end up leaving him a shell of a man after, bonus, you know, bonus for her. That is the distinct impression I got from these communications. Donna Sue was a dog with a bone and it would only get worse. about winning and losing. We're trying to get you the win. You deserve it. I don't think she's saying that. She's saying it to Wendy. But what I think is really going on there is this is a, this is a fight. This is a battle of Donna Sue Adelson against Dan Markell. Obviously, Wendy's the conduit, but this is about principle. This is about pride. This is about the Adelson name. We don't lose. So whether you like this or not,

I'm going to drag you across the finish line. This is bigger than just you. So she's trying to frame it in a way that we're trying to get this win for you, but Donna's trying to get the win for her family. Yeah. And in the end, it was like, I can't give, she couldn't give Dan the satisfaction of thinking that he had any control. And at the end of the day, she says, take back the control, take back the power. That's what's important to people like this, power and control. Whoever had like, no, a divorce is not about winning or losing, right? When there's children involved, it's about like, how can we make sure these kids are not completely disrupted by what otherwise is a very disrupting event.

But how can we insulate them from it and just let them know that they're still going to be loved, happy, nothing's going to change for them really. It's just a couple living arrangements are shifting around. No big deal. That's what it's about, trying to get through that without completely traumatizing these children. Donna Sue, who claims she loves these children more than anything, that's bullshit by the way. Donna Sue, in my opinion, allegedly loves herself more than anything and uses the

people around her to get what she wants, whether it's because they love her and that makes her feel good or she's done something for them and they are in debt to her. People around her are moved around like pawns on a chessboard in order to just orchestrate the life that she wants for herself. If she gave a shit about those two kids, she would have gotten her ass out of the situation as she should have, minded her own damn business, and let her daughter handle her divorce, her husband and her children, in the way that Wendy saw fit, which clearly Wendy's over here like, this isn't a war. It's not about winning or losing. I just want to get through this.

And Donna Sue's like, how dare you? You're an Adelson. How dare you say it's not about winning or losing? Don't you remember Monopoly nights back when you were a kid? We didn't talk for days. It's always about winning or losing. It's just very toxic. And it's really bad it's really bad i'm very uncomfortable with it um okay you thought um chris watt's mother is bad you thought casey anthony's mother's bad you thought scott peterson's mother's bad i introduce you to donna sue adelson man trump card right there that's it that's it brian laundry's parents i I don't know, man. Maybe not even as bad as her. Well, I will say this. There is a silver lining because there is something that those individuals do not have in common with Donna Sue. And we're going to get there soon.

Even after the divorce was finalized, legal bickering about the children continued. And then in 2014, Dan Markell filed a motion asking a judge to prevent Donna Sue from having unsupervised visits with her grandsons. Now, he said that he was asking this because Benjamin and Lincoln would come home after a trip to see their grandparents in South Florida, and they would tell their father, you know, Grandma called you stupid. Grandma hates you. And Dan would be like, why? Why am I stupid? Why does she hate me? And the kids would respond that Donna Sue thought Dan was stupid and she hated him because he was taking her sunshines away from her. This is so bad, by the way. This is so bad. She's trying to turn the kids against their father. And if you don't think that that's what that is,

that's exactly what that is because we saw it in the email, right? You got to reduce Dan's influence on those kids because they'll be able to decide who they want to live with one day. So she's going to take the opportunity instead of spending time with her grandsons, enjoying it, being grateful for it. She's going to spend that opportunity throwing propaganda, anti-Dan propaganda at them and basically trying to make those kids resent their own father and turn against their own father. And she would continue to do that. So I absolutely agree that Dan did the right thing to tell a judge, hey, this woman, nah,

she's not good. She's not good for my relationship with my sons. And yeah, I completely agree. I completely agree that that was the right move. And I hope a judge would have agreed as well. And a hearing to decide this request was scheduled to take place on May 15th, 2014. But it was rescheduled after Wendy retained a new lawyer. And Wendy was like, well, this new lawyer is going to get up to speed on the case. So they pushed that hearing. And in the end, Dan's motion to restrict Donna Sue Adelson from having unsupervised visits with his sons would never be decided on because Dan Markell would be dead before the date of that hearing arrived. Coincidence? Coincidentally. I don't believe in them. I think Dan pulled a chess move and he went after the source. It's basically what I've been saying.

He went after the matriarch, yeah. He went after the person behind all this. I think he started to figure out who was at the core of everything. I think he always knew, honestly. And he said, you know what? Instead of going through Wendy, I'm taking a shot right at the captain

sitting in their quarters. Yeah, I'm going for the king. And she got the message. She got the message. What do people say, which I would say to Donna Sue, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Like, why would you think that that was the right move? Like, once again, this is not a woman who gives a second thought to anybody else's feelings or desires. All she wants is what she wants.

And she doesn't care the collateral damage that is left in the wake. Even if it means, you know, destroying a relationship between two little boys and a father who loves them very much. And I mean, well, we're going to talk about that later because when the whole throwing money at it thing didn't work and the psychological warfare tactics didn't work, maybe Donna Sue and some members of her family thought, well, if we can't throw money at Dan, I'm sure there's somebody we could throw money at who could fix this Dan problem for us. Somebody will take our money. On the morning of July 18th, 2014, Dan and his two sons woke up and had breakfast. He then drove them to the creative preschool where he dropped them off around 8.50 a.m. At 9.12 a.m. he arrived at Premier Health and Fitness for an exercise class

and afterwards he got back into his car and he drove home around 10.38 a.m. While driving, Dan got on the phone with a music teacher at a school. So what happened is Wendy wanted to send their oldest son, Benjamin, to a specific school for kindergarten, and she hadn't really talked about it with Dan. And so he was trying to research this school, and he had sent an email to the music teacher there to be like, hey, can you talk to me about what your program offers? And then the music teacher was like, yeah, absolutely.

Call me anytime. So Dan picks up the phone while he's driving to call this music teacher. He was still on the phone with this person when he pulled into his driveway and into the garage. And this music teacher, his name was Stuart Schlazer, he would later testify that he heard Dan ask him to hold on a second because there was someone in his driveway that he didn't recognize. Schlazer then heard a loud noise, grunting, muffled voices, and then the sound of very deep labored breaths. And when he called out Dan's name, he got no response. Someone else witnessed Dan's murder, or at least heard it, from next door.

And this was Dan's neighbor, Jim Geiger, who'd been sitting with his wife in the living room when he heard a loud bang. My wife and I were sitting in our living room, which looks out over Trescot Drive here, and we were working with an iPad on a couch, and we heard a noise, a loud bang. We weren't sure what it was, and I quickly got up to see what might have caused that noise. And there had been at the time some burglaries in the area, and I was concerned that perhaps that had been a burglary attempt. And so as I approached, we have a large window, looking out on the street,

and as I got to the window, I looked to the left and to the right because I wasn't sure where the noise came from. But on my right, as I looked out, I saw a car quickly back up out of the driveway and then head towards Benton Road very rapidly. I was concerned that we had heard that there had been some burglaries in the area, and so I thought that I would walk next door to see if that might have been what happened. And as I approached Danny's house, I noticed that the garage door was up, and his car was in the garage, and it was running.

And so I stopped then almost as I got to the garage, and I thought, well, so much for a burglary. If he's getting ready to leave, it wasn't anything anything like that and so there must not be a problem and I turned around and went back to my house at that point. All right what about once you got back inside the house did you do anything else? Yeah I as I got back in I kind of stood right at this window and why I'm not sure but I just thought I would stand there for a minute or two and wait for him to go ahead and back out and leave. After maybe three or four or five minutes he hadn't backed out yet and I said to my wife I said something seems wrong to me I don't know what it is.

Danny hadn't left yet. I think I'm gonna walk back over there and check things out and so that's what I did. Well as I got back over there and check things out. And so that's what I did. Well, as I got back over, the garage door was still up. The car was still in the garage. It was still running. And I decided I'd walk on in to the garage. I felt a little awkward doing that, but I walked on in. And I looked at the driver's side window when it was busted out.

And at that point I recalled stepping on glass and as I looked in then I could see a man's head I didn't bloody and he was looking through part of the glass was still there from the driver's side window and but part of it was blown out and I looked inside and I saw a head it was bloody and it was blown out. And I looked inside, and I saw a head. It was bloody, and it was moving back and forth slowly. And was it Mr. Markell inside the car? Yeah, and I said, Danny, what happened?

And there was no response, just a slow moving back and forth. And I hollered out again, Danny, Danny, what happened? And there was still nothing. And at that point, I knew he needed help happened? And there was still nothing. And at that point I knew he needed help and I had to call 911. Yeah. That, that clip's tough to listen to. And yeah, this is in every way, shape or form a hit. And there's going to be theories around this, you know, like who else could this be with dance, you know, what he does for a living and who he knows and who would have a problem with him. But the worst part about it is the fact that he kind of saw it coming, which I think makes it worse,

honestly, where if he had been turned away and didn't even see the guy coming up to the car, you don't know what's about to happen. And before you know it, the lights go out where he more than likely had seen it happen. And in fact, if you look at the crime scene photos, and we probably have some of them here, I believe it actually broke his glasses. His glasses were on the ground, shattered from it. I don't know if that was due to rescue workers after the fact, but I remember seeing crime scene photos where his glasses were actually broken, which shows where the potential trajectory of the ballistics were. Well, whoever shot him, shot him right through his window, the car window. So the car window was completely shattered. That's was still alive when Jim Geiger got there. Jim Geiger is a really cool dude, by the way, because I looked into him a little bit because he's this definitely older guy, I would say in his 70s, 80s, but he's still very business minded. He's still very sharp. He was like working on his

iPad in the living room with his wife when he heard the shot. He saw a car driving away. So he's the one who spotted this car, which is why they were able to then put out basically a bolo for this car for people to be on the lookout for this specific type of car, which we're going to talk about next time, but had distinctive markings on it that made it easier to identify. And yeah, Jim Geiger's completely like, he's like, what the hell is going on here? Who could this have been? And then the police get there. They're looking through it and they're like, well, this wasn't a robbery, right? Because there's no forced entry. Nothing's missing. This was a hit. This was personal. There's nothing else it could have been. And now we just have to figure out who did this and why, right? Because as we've talked about,

Dan Markell, as brilliant and motivated and accomplished as he was, was not a personality that everybody loved, right? So there's going to be questions. Was it the people who were like threatening him on his blog? Was it this ring of rabbis who were apparently kidnapping and torturing men to force them to give their wives divorces? We're going to talk about that next time. It's crazy. There was all these possibilities of what it could be or who it could have been, but I don't think anybody was ready for what the actual reality of the situation was. And that is where we're going to leave off today. When we come back next week, we're going to start discussing the investigation and the kinds of shocking secrets that it would unveil. Yeah. And if you're someone who is intrigued by the investigative process and the tactics and techniques that are implemented to solve these cases, this may be one of the most interesting cases that you're going to hear so far on Crime Weekly. And it's so interesting because we discussed a little bit in the Crime Weekly news episode as far as the science and technology at the disposal of law

enforcement officers and how the window for criminals to commit a crime and get away with it is slowly dwindling. This is a great example of one of those cases, because as Stephanie pointed out, you have Jim Geiger, who is a witness, but even more so because of his testimony, because of what he saw, you have corroborating evidence that we're going to hear about through video and surveillance technology on tolls and all these different things that basically law enforcement is able to recreate that day and identify not only the vehicle, but the suspects involved. And then that's when it gets really good because now they actually say, okay, we got something here, but how does this tie back to anyone? And through different techniques from the FBI, it is absolutely fascinating what they're able to do. It's a common technique that we use again, social engineering, but we're going to have a ton to talk about. And I will tell you, this wasn't just one of those cases where there's a video, you know, who did it, you arrest them and that's the end of it. They got the main tree branch. They went

after the roots. Once they figured out how deep it went and how far it extended, they were like, no stone unturned. We're bringing everybody in. Right. And they could have, hey, we got the guys. You know, job well done. Pat on the back. No, no, no. They went all the way.

They said, we're going to get right back to the source and you guys can probably see where it's going. But this did not happen overnight. It was a lot of work and we're going to break it all down and I can't wait to get into it with you guys. Yes, absolutely. So we will see you here next week. And until then, stay safe. But can you like, I don't know what else to say.

This is weird. I usually don't sign off. Yeah, you said it. Stay safe. Have a good night. Take care. Bye. Bye. Bye.