Crime Weekly - S3 Ep176: Dan Markel: The Bump (Part 5)

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

In July of 2014, Florida State University professor Dan Markel dropped his two young sons off to preschool and made a quick stop at the gym before heading to his home in Tallahassee, Florida. Within minutes of arriving home, Dan Markel was shot execution style in his garage. In the aftermath, a lengthy investigation would follow that would include financial and phone records, surveillance cameras, wiretaps and a FBI sting operation, and what this investigation would uncover would shock everyone. In the case there have already been three criminal trials, four murder convictions and a fifth arrest, but new details and allegations are emerging every day, suggesting that there may still be more that we do not know about the shocking and tragic murder of 41-year-old Dan Markel. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. EarthBreeze.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 40% off your subscription! 2. Quince.com/CrimeWeekly - Get FREE shipping and 365 day returns! 3. HelloFresh.com/CrimeWeeklyFree - Use code CRIMEWEEKLYFREE for FREE breakfast for life! 4. BEISTravel.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 15% off your first purchase! 5. Smalls.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for 50% off your first order and FREE shipping!

Did your last vacation house for the whole crew leave you wishing there was a better way to stay together? Like with bedrooms that are all great, so everyone thinks they got the best room? Whoa! This is amazing. A full bathroom in every bedroom? Hey, mine's got a bathroom. A beach around an epic, clear bay big enough for swimming, rope swinging, and even kayaking? All next door to Walt Disney World?

Next trip, share a house at Evermore Orlando Resort. You won't believe what you resorted to before. Now at Verizon, we're locking in low prices for three years, guaranteed, on MyPlan. And you can get a single line for just $45 a month when you switch and bring your phone. That's our best price ever on unlimited welcome, with auto pay plus taxes and fees, guaranteed for three years. Because at Verizon, we got you visit your local dc verizon store today $20 monthly promo credits applied over 36 months with a new line on unlimited welcome in times of congestion unlimited 5g and 4g lte may be temporarily slower than other traffic domestic data roaming at 2g speeds price guarantee applies to then current base monthly rate additional terms and conditions apply Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow.

And I'm Derek Levasseur. of the Dan Markell case. This has been one of our most popular, well-received series that we've ever done. And it's not hard to understand why, because this has taken both Derek and I, you know, it's got us in a chokehold, basically. We cannot get away from it. We can't stop talking about it. We can't stop looking into it. There's a lot going on, and we're really getting deep into it today when we talk about how law enforcement sort of makes their first forceful appearance in this case. So we know when we last left off, Wendy Adelson had spoken to her mother, Donna Sue, from the Tallahassee Police Department the night her ex-husband Dan Markell was shot to death in the garage of the home they once shared together. Now, this call happened around 7.03 p.m., and Wendy asked Donna Sue to call Charlie and let him know what happened. Donna

Sue did call Charlie, her son, and Wendy's brother at 7.11 p.m. This call went to voicemail, but Charlie called back two minutes later, and they spoke on the phone for almost six minutes. Ten minutes later, Charlie called his mother again, and they remained on the phone for six and a half minutes. Immediately after getting off the phone with Donna Sue, Charlie Adelson called Catherine Mag Benua, speaking to her for almost three minutes. Now, obviously, after hearing what they heard from Wendy, after hearing what they heard from Jeff LaCase, the police detectives wanted to speak to Harvey and Donna Sue Adelson. And on July 20th, at Dan Markell's memorial service, the Adelsons promised the lead detective, Detective Craig Isom, that they would sit down and talk to him before returning home to Coral Springs. Now, notably missing from Dan's memorial service was his former brother-in-law, Charlie Adelson.

On July 21st, Isom called Wendy Adelson, and she answered. But when she figured out who was calling, she claimed to have a bad connection, and she hung up. Within five minutes, Isom's phone was ringing, and it was Wendy Adelson's cell number. But when he answered the call, Wendy was not on the other end of the line. It was her lawyer. So I believe she three-way called her lawyer and then they called back Detective Isom. Right. And the lawyer informed Detective Isom that Wendy and her sons had left Tallahassee with the Adelsons and he had no date for when she planned to return. So Harvey and Donna Sue, they never did have that sit down with the Tallahassee Police Department. And once they were all back in Coral Springs, no one from the Adelson family reached out to law enforcement to touch base or to check

on the progress into the investigation of Dan Markell's murder, which I think is weird. If I was your, you know, his ex-wife and someone had murdered him just simply for the fact of like, who's out there, who had an axe to grind and could, you know, these people possibly be after me or my kids, I would be wanting to know like, hey, did you track this person down? Do you know if we're in danger? Are they looking for us? And like, listen, later, I believe the lawyer for Wendy is going to say like, oh, she left Tallahassee, not because she hated Tallahassee, because they're going to try to convince you that Wendy had no problem with Tallahassee. She's going to be like, no, I loved it there. I was getting completely comfortable and acclimated,

even though she told every single person she could possibly talk to how much she hated Tallahassee. She's going to be like, no, I loved it there. I was getting completely comfortable and acclimated, even though she told every single person she could possibly talk to how much she hated Tallahassee. Including Jeff LaCasse. Multiple times. And she even wrote about it in her book, remember? Like, I know it was supposed to be a fake, a fake place, but she's talking about Tallahassee. So she's going to say she didn't hate Tallahassee. And the only reason that she left after Dan's murder was because she was afraid, you know, she wanted to get away from Tallahassee. And the only reason that she left after Dan's murder was because she was afraid. You know, she wanted to get away from Tallahassee. Well, if you were so afraid, why weren't you calling the detectives to see what information they had or if they tracked down anybody? Like, why weren't you interested in that? Yeah.

And I think overall, and I might get some heat for this, but Wendy's soon-to-be ex-husband is killed, as she kind of acknowledged in the initial interview when she found out about Dan Markell's shooting, you have to know that you're going to be someone who's considered a person of interest, just based on your dynamic, what was currently going on, the circumstances surrounding the case. Even if you're not involved at all, you're going to be someone who's looked into and questioned. You shouldn't be offended by that. The detectives would not be doing their job if they didn't. And you made a great point, like with her being concerned about her kids, wouldn't she want to know the latest updates in the case for her own safety and for her children's safety? But more so than that, you know, some people will say, this is where I'll get the push

back where it's like, oh, she doesn't have to cooperate with police, Derek. No, she doesn't. You're right. She doesn't. But at the same time, if you want to try to show that you're not someone who is involved, I would tell you as a friend, it's in your best interest to cooperate with police. I would also say, have an attorney present. Having an attorney present does not make you guilty or make you look guilty of a crime. It's protecting yourself. I've said it when we started Crime Weekly. I'll say it as long as we're doing Crime Weekly as a police officer. If I were investigating you or interviewing you and you said, hey, Detective Levasseur, I'm coming in. But just so you know, I'm going to have an attorney there because I've never really been through this. And I just want someone there to make sure that I'm doing the right thing.

And just want to- And not saying anything that could, you know, potentially make this worse. Yeah, make this worse for me. I would say no problem at all. And I would honestly have no issues with it. I wouldn't say, oh, well, clearly they're guilty. Why would they need a lawyer? But this kind of like-

I think it's better to go with a lawyer than to just not go in at all. That's the point I'm making. Now, I will tell you as a detective, if you were doing this, trying to avoid speaking with me at all, when you have relayed to me in past conversations, you were concerned about your kids and all this. And that you had nothing to do with it. I would, it would raise an eyebrow.

Is it enough to charge you with a crime? Absolutely not. But I will tell you from a detective's perspective on this one, it would concern me way more than you asking to have an attorney present. So this kind of avoidance, although not enough to put down in an affidavit, is not going to help you. It's only going to raise the awareness and the suspicions of law enforcement because it's not normal. It's not. When your ex-husband is murdered, assassinated, they're going to have some questions for you. And you should try to be as cooperative as you can be. And if the conversation takes a different route where

it looks like they're trying to build a case against you, that's what you have an attorney there for. They'll guide you along the way. But just being uncooperative completely, you do what you want to do. But if you're taking my advice, it's not the best approach. Right. I agree. What do you think about the Adelson's being like, yeah, we'll meet up with you, Isom.

And then they're just like, let's go back to Coral Springs and we're not going to let this guy know. That's what I'm referring to. The whole avoidance, like, you know, oh yeah, we'll speak to you. And then just kind of having a lawyer call back. It just, it's not good faith.

It's not good faith. And it could just be because you don't like cops and you don't want to go that route. They still could be completely innocent. But I'm just telling you, human nature as a detective, because we are humans, that's going to, that's going to raise some suspicion. It still may not lead anywhere because it's not enough to charge someone with a crime, but it doesn't look good. I'm just telling you guys that right now. It does not look good on the surface.

I agree. And I thought, like, why even tell him you're going to, it looks like you're just trying to buy time to get away. Absolutely. And it may not be the case, but optically, that's how it looks. And you don't even call and be like, you know, we'd really wanted to stop in, but like there's so much to do with Wendy and the boys.

We had to get back. Like, we'll call you and we'll make a, they like left like thieves in the night, right? Left and didn't know when they were coming back the lawyer could have said hey detective isom they're down in you know so and so right now let's set up let's set up an interview how about next week three o'clock your office or a mutual location i guarantee you that detective would have went out to them if they if that's what they wanted but it was just an open-ended thing oh don't know when they're coming back basically lose our number that's what they wanted. But it was just an open ended thing. Oh, don't know when they're coming back. Basically lose our number. That's what it was looking like.

So, yeah. Again, just optically didn't look great. I know I'll get some comments. Oh, you know, we don't have to help them. Their case. I don't think you're going to get many of those comments. If you look at our comment section, it's not a very pro-Edel sin comment section. It's not. But I'm talking in generality, just in any case, if there's a situation where you're close to someone who's hurt or killed and detectives reach out to and want to speak with you, I have no issue with you getting an attorney, but don't just blow them off because you may be completely innocent, but now on the surface, you may bring unwanted attention where now it looks like you're avoiding them deliberately and they're going to ask the question why.

And you're not technically telling people, oh, don't blow off the police. You're saying you can blow off the police. You don't have any obligation to speak to them. However, if you do, this is how they may perceive you. This is how they may perceive you. If that happens, you only have yourself to blame because of the choices you made as adults. Right. They still got to build a case. But if you're just trying to cooperate and you really have nothing to hide, then you go in there. Again, bring an attorney, even if you're innocent.

And you don't have to take a polygraph test to do any of that stuff. You can decide how far you want to cooperate once you get there. But just avoiding them and in leaving like a thief in the night, kind of the way they were leaving when Donnasu got arrested at the airport.

You know, they're good on that. The Irish goodbye, I call it, which is the way I leave every single family party, just like a ghost. Ain't nobody saw me leave. I'm not doing a hug for every single 28 people that are there. I'm going to be like a slide out, you know, kind of like Peter Griffin's going back into the bush. That's the Irish goodbye that the Adelsons did when they left Tallahassee. And then again, when Donnasu and Harvey tried to get the hell out of there and go to Vietnam. They definitely did. Again, just a little bit of advice from me.

Obviously, consult with your attorney. Hopefully, none of you guys are in that situation. But that would be mine. I don't think they will be. They're good eggs. Yeah, they're all good eggs. I'm sure. So Wendy and her two sons, they never returned to Tallahassee again.

And less than a year after Dan's death, Wendy had her children's last names legally changed from Markel to Adelson. And in an email she'd written to Dan's parents the following September, Wendy explained that she'd done this to protect the boys from the media and also anyone out there who might be trying to find them. Dan's parents, like the rest of us, were obviously not buying this excuse because Wendy had also removed her older son's middle name, which had been the Hebrew name of Dan's grandmother who'd passed away. And, you know, she had done that as well. So that's not any protecting, anything like that. So police reports state, quote, According to the Markell family, it is traditional in the Jewish faith

to give a newborn child the first or middle name of a deceased relative. The Markel family is deeply troubled by this action and believed it was done by Wendy to sever any connection to the Markel family. End quote. I 100 million percent agree. Whether Wendy's guilty, innocent, new, didn't know. That's exactly why she changed their last names and her older son's middle name. She wanted she just wanted to remove any Markel from them. Yeah. No, I don't necessarily disagree. And this was when I had brought up the whole marriage thing and a lot of you guys gave me your opinions on it as far as not having to change your name and all. I'm with you. I get it. I totally get it. There's different reasons for different things. But

as it was said here, the traditional Jewish faith, the way things are normally done, that's how it would be done. And they didn't do it here. And I don't think it was said here, the traditional Jewish faith, the way things are normally done, that's how it would be done. And they didn't do it here. And I don't think it was unintentional. Like you said, there was a reason for it. They wanted the Markell name completely removed from any association with the Adelson family, period. Any sign that Dan was these kids' father, she wanted to know.

That's how it looks, yeah, for sure. Which is very, very sad. Sad and disrespectful. And I think that's what I was trying to drive home. And never would he have allowed that to happen if he was alive. Keep in mind. Of course not. Of course not. And that's what I was trying to drive home with some of the other things prior to his death that may have been more than what you guys explained. Like, hey, maybe they just didn't want to change their name. That's an old traditional thing. That's not the way it is anymore. Or maybe they're in a professional role where having

their last name is important or they've built accolades that have been associated with that last name. All justifiable reasons. I was specifically saying in this case, I thought it was for more than any of those reasons. It was just simply, they didn't want the name. They didn't want the name. They didn't want to be associated with it. Yeah. And like if my, even if I had bad blood between me and my ex-husband, especially if he died, I would keep my kid's name, his last name. I would keep whatever impact he had had on them just so that they could remember him. So we could talk about him. I want to give that to my children. It has nothing to do with him. I'd want that to give that to my children because now he's gone. So the only way he lives on is through them and through their mother telling stories about him. And she would raise these kids, literally, and she will raise them, to believe that Dan Markell and his lack of social awareness with

others. That's up for debate, but that's what Wendy and some others have said. However, we've never heard anybody say he was a bad dad. He was a bad father. No, he was a great dad. I mean, he looked at his office. There's pictures of his office, I think online where I saw it, or it was a documentary or something. He would take their artwork that they made in school and hang their artwork. And I mean, these are little kids. This is not like stunningly great artwork. But he would he would hang their artwork from strings from his ceiling. So when you go in his office, it's just like in the living room of his house, just these these little cute little pictures that his kids drew hanging from the ceiling, pictures of them all over the place.

He deeply loved them, and he valued his role of being a father to those boys more than anything else. And it's just very unfortunate that he was not only stolen from those kids, but now she's trying to, Wendy's trying to erase any sign that he existed as their father. Yeah, not good. Again, optics, not a great look. And not that far after he had passed away. So yeah, the timing of it all, it's just not good. I'm surprised she even waited a year. She probably thought that that was long enough that it wouldn't look bad, but it still looks bad. It looks bad, dude.

Yeah. Let's take our first break and then we're going to catch up with what Wendy's doing now that she gets her South Florida life that she's always wanted conveniently. Did your last vacation house for the whole crew leave you wishing there was a better way to stay together? Like with bedrooms that are all great, so everyone thinks they got the best room? Whoa! This is amazing. A full bathroom in every bedroom?

Hey, mine's got a bathroom. A beach around an epic, clear bay big enough for swimming, rope swinging, and even kayaking? All next door to Walt Disney World? Next trip, share a house at Evermore Orlando Resort. You won't believe what you resorted to before. This Father's Day at Lowe's. Score free gifts for the greatest dad. Right now, get a free select DeWalt, Craft Craftsman or Cobalt tool with purchase of a select battery

kit. Plus, get a free Werner two-foot aluminum ladder when you buy an eight-foot fiberglass ladder. Shop these deals and more this Father's Day at Lowe's. We help, you save. Valid through 615. While supplies last, selection varies by location. Wendy Adelson began working as a law clerk for a federal appellate judge in Miami, and Wendy's sons began attending a school right across the street from Donna Sue and Harvey's Waterfront Condominium in South Beach. Every weekday, Donna Sue would get to walk her sunshines to and from school, and as the months passed, she probably thought that their plan had worked flawlessly, and she finally had exactly what she'd always

wanted. But then the arrests began. In May of 2016, Sigfrido Garcia and Luis Rivera were arrested and charged with first degree murder. On October 1st, 2016, Catherine Mag Banua was arrested and charged with murder. Charlie Adelson would be arrested on April 21st, 2022. And on November 13th, 2023, Donna Sue Adelson was also placed under arrest as she was trying to flee the country to Vietnam. One-way ticket, no extradition from Vietnam to the United States. They're just going on vacation, don't worry. All of these arrests sprang from a specific undercover operation, which was executed in the spring of 2016. So during the course of the investigation, law enforcement decided to use a tactic called a bump to identify who was involved in the conspiracy to take Dan Markell's life. A bump is an investigative

tool used by law enforcement where an agent or officer working undercover will make face-to-face contact with a person of interest or with the subject of an investigation. FBI agent Oscar Jimenez would testify, quote, what you would look to do in a bump is either extract information from that individual or give them information or possibly set up future meetings with that individual in some cases, take or stimulate a wire or phone tap, end quote. Now, the purpose of the bump and the wiretap operation in this case was to identify co-conspirators, specifically Charlie Adelson and his parents, Donna Sue and Harvey. Law enforcement wanted to see if a little nudge would get the Adelsons to panic and start engaging in incriminating behavior, which would be monitored by the wiretaps placed on the phones of Charlie Adelson and Catherine Mag Ben-Nua. The operation began on April 19, 2016, after weeks of planning and

cooperation between the FBI, specifically Special Agent Pat Sanford, who was in charge of the Tallahassee branch of the FBI, and also the local Tallahassee police. On that day, FBI Agent Oscar Jimenez approached Donna Sue as she left her condo to pick up her grandsons from school. Excuse me, Ms. Adelson? How you doing? Just wanted to give you this. Listen, you know what's up? You're going't be scared. Listen, I just want you to know that we know that your family

is taking care of Amy and her friends who have fallen from the cliff sometimes. Having her problem on more than two problems. And I want you to know that my brother he's incarcerated. He helped your family with this problem you guys have, Norm. And we want to make sure that he's going through some well-timers.

We want to make sure that he takes care of what he's going through, the way he's taking care of Katie and Susan. Well, this will explain it. Thank you. So this footage that if you're watching on YouTube, you can see there is footage that kind of has like a wide angle of the FBI agent, the undercover FBI agent and Donna Sue Adelson. And then there's one that just shows Donna Sue. So this footage was taken using a body cam on Oscar Jimenez. That's how you see Donna Sue. And then also there was a van parked across the street with FBI agents and local law enforcement inside, and they were recording.

And then they also had a small plane flying above, keeping an eye on things from the air. So this was like a pretty big, pretty big operation. So to summarize what happened there, in case you couldn't hear well, this is the best, this was played during the trial, so it's the best audio I could find, and I tried to clean it up a little bit, but there's only so much you can do when this audio is being played in like an echoey courtroom.

But to summarize what happened, Oscar Jimenez is posing as a Miami gang member, and he walked up to Donna Sue and handed her a piece of paper. Now, what he handed her was a printout of a July 2015 article about the one-year anniversary of Dan Markell's death that had been printed in the Miami New Times. And handwritten at the bottom of that flyer was a telephone number along with the dollar amount of $5,000. So this was an attempt on law enforcement's part to tickle the wire, and it worked like a charm. So Jimenez said, when he walks up to Donna Sue, you probably couldn't hear, he said, I want to let you know that you and your family have been taking care of Katie and her friend Tuto for some time. Now, Tuto was the nickname of Sigfrido Garcia. Since they were young, Sigfrido Garcia and Luis Rivera had nicknames for each other and that they went by on the street. Sigfrido was Tutto and Luis was Tato.

So, you know, this gets kind of confusing, but they're talking about, hey, you Adelsons are taking care of Katie and Sigfrido. So they wanted Donnasu to know, hey, we know that you Adelsons are taking care of Katie, Mag Benua, and her boyfriend, her baby daddy, Sigfrido Garcia. And then Jimenez goes on to say, my brother, who he alludes to being Luis Rivera, is now incarcerated. And since he helped you, the Adelsons, handle a problem that you had up north, as in North Florida, as in Tallahassee, we're hoping now that you Adelsons will be just as generous and help Luis Rivera out the same way you've been

helping Katie and Sig Frito. Now, the good thing for everybody was at the point Luis Rivera was actually in prison. He'd been sentenced on racketeering charges. So he was behind bars. He wouldn't be able to sort of like clarify anything. I mean, the Adelsons aren't going to call him in prison anyways, but he was behind bars. So it all seemed much more legit. Now, do you want. So basically, law enforcement wanted Donna Sue and then Charlie and everyone connected to them to believe that they were being blackmailed by the Latin kings into paying five thousand dollars. And if they did, everything would be OK. No one had to get in trouble or be harmed.

But if they didn't, you know, obviously we're dealing with gang members. There might be some repercussions here. Yep. Absolutely. It was a great job. It was a great job by everyone involved. And this is what I had alluded to when we started this whole series, because this is some top-notch investigative work. Couple things. First off, more than likely, just to give you a little like inside baseball, more than likely what Oscar was wearing wasn't in fact like what you would assume like a body cam where she would see it. It was more than likely what I used to wear, which was a button cam. And it's exactly how it sounds. The reason he's wearing that button down shirt, not only because it fits the role, but I am someone who doesn't wear button down shirts a lot. But when I was undercover, I often did because there was a lot of buttons on the shirt that I could rip

off and we could replace with a button cam. And for those of you who don't know about it, basically it looks exactly like a button and it has a little four holes on it, just like a button. But one of those holes has a camera behind it. And there's a wire that runs down behind the button after you button it into your shirt and you can put it in your pocket or in your waistband. It's very small, very discreet.

And in some cases, if it's a better system, it actually has a feed, like a Bluetooth feed that's going back to the surveillance van where they can watch and hear what's being said from the vehicle as it's happening. I've had both ways. I've had it where it's just recording and you have like the hard drive on you. And I've also had the feed, although I will say when I was doing it, it was like a microwave type feed. So if any car got in front of us, they always lost the connection. Interrupts the signal. Yeah.

Right. And we actually had a surveillance van where the van itself had cameras in the wheels. So you could face the cameras toward your target of the investigation, whether it was like a house or a person. And it looks just like a regular work van, but inside- Yeah, you're not sitting there with a camera out the window being all suspicious. No, it's really good. We had a ladder system on top that was supposed to be a ladder system, but in fact, it was a camera up there as well. Really high speed stuff. And I'm sure the FBI has all of this. But as far as this is concerned, because I had an interesting conversation on a different project with a defense attorney about this, and I want to talk about it

here because I have a feeling some of you may be asking this question, which is, well, isn't this entrapment? Isn't this a form of entrapment? And to summarize it quickly, no, it's not for a couple of reasons. First off, entrapment is, you know, the asking or the incentivizing of someone to commit a crime. If the FBI agent had went up to him and say, hey, listen, I want to pay you $5,000 to kill this person, that's entrapment. Because now if they go and do it, it's not something they would have done without you coming into the equation. So here's my question. Isn't this technically what he's doing?

Like if he was a gang member, wouldn't this be blackmail and isn't kind of pulling them into paying off that $5,000 sum, kind of trying to pull them into doing something illegal because isn't blackmail illegal and kind of like cooperating and paying the blackmail kind of illegal too? I think that's fair, but they have no intention on charging them with blackmail. With kind of like cooperating and paying the blackmail kind of illegal.

I think that's I think that's fair. But they have no intention on charging them with black with that. And by the way, the paying of the blackmail is not a crime. The blackmail itself would be the crime. So Oscar's committing the crime. The paying of the blackmail would be maybe a sign of guilt as possible sign of guilt. But to clarify, you mean they're trying to entrap them into committing a crime that they know they're not trying to entrap them into committing a crime that they will then charge them for? No, but if it was entrapment, the police officers would be trying to make the people commit a crime that they would then charge them for, like a drug buy or something.

So not a separate crime. And I know some people get a little mad about this, but I did. I did do a lot of John stings and sex worker stings when I was when I was an undercover detective. And it was very specific. I could pull up to someone and I could say, Hey, how are you? But I could never initiate the transaction. I could never say, Hey, I'm looking, I'm looking for a blow job. How much is it? Even that is entrapment because that woman or man might've had no plan of offering anything until I said something. But now that I've initiated it, a very good defense, even just a normal defense attorney would be able to say, Hey, my client had no intention on doing it. The detective brought it up. They entrapped them and I wouldn't disagree with it. So when I would

go up to them, I would say, Hey, what are you up to? Do you need a ride? Sure. There's nothing wrong with asking someone for a ride. Then they get in the car and they say, okay, well, what are we doing? What do you mean? What are we doing? All right.

I'll give you a blow job for 20. Well, for how much? 20 bucks. Now it's transactional. Now it's fine. So to relate that to the situation, first off, they're not trying to incentivize or ask Donna to commit a crime. At this point, they know Katie Magmanua is involved. They have all the investigation that links to her through Luis Rivera and Centrero Garcia. And they're saying,

okay, that's not where this ends. We already know that Katie has a connection to Charles, but we don't have the pieces of the puzzle yet. We have the overall puzzle. We think we know where this is going, but we don't have any direct connection as to their involvement. So we're gonna try to bump them. We're gonna try to push them

into making a mistake in this thing. Now, again, they already have their suspicions. So by going to Donna and just simply planting, throwing a line in the water and seeing if she takes the bait, she could have simply taken that piece of paper, threw it in the trash and never followed up with anything if she wasn't involved or, or she could have pushed back even harder in that moment. They were just throwing a line out there to see what happened. And I don't want to, I know we're going to get to all of it, so I'm not going to say it,

but essentially this was to help strengthen the case that they believe they already partially had. They knew once they got to Katie that more than likely the connection was to Charles and maybe Donna, but maybe at this point they didn't even know how deep it went. They just knew Katie knew Charles. They didn't know who else was involved. So this was an opportunity to throw it out there. But I do, based on the fact that they decided to target Donna, as opposed to Charles, makes me believe that they were already kind of putting it all together. And they had a pretty good idea of what happened here. I think, yeah. And I mean, I think that even initially they probably knew Charlie was definitely involved, but they were trying to see like how much or if at all, or Donna Sue and Harvey involved. And Donna Sue, when she takes that paper, she acts completely normal, man. You can hear in the video, she's like, oh, who are you?

You scared me, you know, because he kind of approaches her and he's like, don't be scared, but actually be scared. You know, he's like, well, yeah, he's great. He's done this before, for sure. I think he's not like if you're asking why like because i heard him on the phone when he's talking to charlie i heard him then he sounds like a cop to me like if you everyone says that he does not everybody says that like no game well i didn't know everybody said that but i 100 will tell you he sounded like a cop um he wasn't even dressed he wasn't even dressed like no that is how it's but again when it's that's the thing, right? When you're trying too hard.

If he went up there with that typical- No, don't try too hard. The one button and the rest of it open. Five chains and like- Yeah, the black and yellow bandana hanging out of his pocket. That's not the level we're talking about. Like throwing gang signs as he walks up. I'm not asking him to do that.

I'm just saying maybe like dress down a little bit more. He had like a button up shirt on. You ever see that meme with that guy with the messed up teeth? He used to be a firefighter. Now he's an actor. I can't think of his name. He's in all the Adam Sandler movies, but he's got like the, he's got like my, hello, my fellow students. And he's like 40 years old, but it's like, you ever see that meme? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. You probably haven't. I have definitely. But my point is I was on Big Brother, right? And everybody before I went into the house, everybody on social media was like, he's a cop. You could tell a hundred percent just the way he walks and talks.

After you came out, you mean? So no, when I was in, before going into the house, we had to do like pre-interviews for like the audience. So they already knew, they already knew you were a cop. You already know, and you know, watching this video that he's a cop. So you're looking through it from that lens. But if you haven't been caught yet and some random dude that's six foot something big guy comes up and he's like, Hey, listen, this is what happened. This is what needs, this is what needs to go down. And he's got information and stuff. He's

got information that he shouldn't know. Well, I will say this, Charlie and Katie were talking after, right? And we're not going to go too deep into all of that because I can't tell you everything. But they were even talking. Charlie was like, listen, it was a it was a white guy like he was dressed like this. And she was like, that doesn't sound like anybody that, you know, would be like affiliated with our group. Like they don't that doesn't even sound like anybody. So they knew they kind of picked up on it based on like his demeanor and the way he was dressed. So you may say it's just because we know. But Charlie and Katie highly suspected that this was law enforcement and not some like Miami gang member. It might cross their minds. But based on what you're going to get into it, clearly it might cross their minds that he was a cop, but clearly not enough. I think Charlie was being super careful, but because he he has like overblown self-confidence of how good he is. Let's revisit that after you get into what happens from here, because I disagree, but I can't disagree without the other stuff being out there.

All right. So listen, Donna Sue takes the paper. She folds it up, slides into her purse, and she's cool as a cucumber. She's not shaking. Like, she's not looking around. She's not freaking out. She doesn't grab her cell phone right away. She continues walking.

She picks up the kids, her grandchildren from school. She goes back to the apartment, continues on with her day very casually. But as soon as she got back home, who was she on the phone with? Charlie. She's calling her son Charlie. And of course, law enforcement's listening. They don't have Donna Sue's phone bugged. They've got Charlie's phone bugged. So they do have audio of these calls. They were played during the trials. There's multiple trials, but the audio is not great. Once again, it's courtroom audio. It's very like echoey. So I am going to summarize them for you the best I can. But before we do, let's have a quick break and we'll be right back. Donna Sue called Charlie and she told him very carefully that she just had some papers hand delivered to her. Charlie asked her, are you being sued?

Donna responds, quote, no, that's what I thought it was. But I'm going to need to talk to you, end quote. Donna Sue said the talk needed to happen in person, not over the phone. And then Charlie started asking her some questions, such as, did his father Harvey know about this? To which Donna Sue replied, no, dad's at work today, fortunately. Charlie then asked if Wendy knew or if Wendy was involved or if it involved Wendy. And Donna Sue replied, no, no, no, no, no, no. She says that no that many times. No, no, no, no, no, no. Six times. I think Joth protests too much. Charlie then asked if it involved him

or others, and Donna Sue responded, quote, well, probably both of us, end quote. But she said it so softly, Charlie didn't hear her. He asked her to repeat it, and she said, quote, probably the two of us, so you probably have a general idea of what I'm talking about. So let's just find some time to talk to each other and take the boys for a ride, okay, end quote. Charlie asked Donna Sue, Charlie asked more questions, such as who had given her the papers, and Donna repeated she did not want to discuss it over the phone. So they made plans for Charlie to drive over and see her the next day after Harvey Adelson left for work at noon. They hung up, but 20 minutes later, Charlie called back and told his mother not to be too stressed about anything, saying, quote, whatever it is, whatever someone sent you, I wouldn't worry too much about

anything, end quote. Charlie told her he would be there tomorrow and they could talk things out. And Donna Sue told him to bring cash because she was going to make him take her out to dinner. She said this in a playful way, but Charlie seems confused. And he responded, quote, so I need to bring cash, end quote. And Donna Sue responded, quote, that's probably a good idea, right? End quote. To which Charlie responded, quote, is someone blackmailing you? End quote. These people must talk in code so much that they don't even need to, like like speak the English language to understand what they're saying to each other. It's going to be a $5,000 dinner, by the way. Yes, it's going to be a $5,000 dinner. Bring cash because you can't pay for a credit card. You can't pay for dinner with a credit card. So then Donna Sue told Charlie, quote,

well, that's always a good possibility, end quote. And Charlie, more serious this time, repeated his question, asking his mother if she thought someone was trying to blackmail her. Donna replied, quote, um, maybe, could be. End quote. No, Charlie replied. That's crazy, he said. He asked her who had given her the paperwork and she said, quote, I have a pretty good idea. Yeah, it's amazing. Somebody knew exactly who I was. Called me by my name. I wouldn't forget that face, end quote. Charlie once again repeated that it was crazy for someone to just walk up to her and hand her something like that. And he asked if Donna felt that the man who had given her the paper had been threatening her, to which Donna Sue replied, quote, you know, you never know how to interpret these things.

So let's not worry and let's meet tomorrow afternoon, end quote. When Charlie asked if Donna could send him a picture of the paper she'd been given, she said she really didn't feel like that was a good idea. But Charlie kept pressing and asking questions. Did she think it was the government or military? No, Donna Sue said. So it was just some random person, he asked. Yes, Donna Sue replied. Charlie again asked if someone was threatening her. And Donna Sue again repeated that she didn't feel like they should be talking about this on the phone, to which Charlie responded, quote, if there's a threat,

you go to the police, end quote. Donna Sue responded, quote, yeah, yeah, this time, I don't think that's a good idea, end quote. Charlie Adelson, always the hard ass, told his mother, quote, let me see what it is. Let me see what nonsense it is first.

It won't be the first time I've been threatened. If it's something serious, you know I'm going to recommend going to the police, end quote. And then they hung up. So I think by this time, Charlie kind of felt like there was two possibilities, that it was actually a gang member or that it was law enforcement who had caught on to them. I'm sure Wendy told Donna Sue and Charlie, like, yeah, I did say in my police interview that you guys hated Dan Markell. Yeah.

So that's probably why the police want to talk to you. So I'm sure they knew that there wasn't an option, a possibility that the police were looking into them and they had completely avoided sitting down and having interviews with them. So they don't even know what the police know or what they want from them or what kind of questions they're going to ask them. So there's probably this like unknown that's bothering him. Yeah.

And this is, by the way, this this is part of where I'm getting as far as I'm sure he's he's he's exploring or thinking about all possibilities. But she's being more careful on the phone than he is. She is. She is. But he's also saying you just said he was being super careful and his mommy's correcting him. Listen, he is being super careful because I think he's coming from the place of like, well, if we were innocent, we would go to the police if we are blackmailed. So that's why I think he keeps saying it. Well, we should go to the police. We should go to the police.

Dude had no intention. I think he's thinking it's an actual gang member. That's why. Well, if it was an actual gang member, why would you go to the police if it's the police who are blackmailed or coming after you? Why would you go to the police if it was an actual gang member and you knew you had paid this person's brother to kill your brother-in-law. Because maybe he's thinking.

He's not going to the police. He's saying it in case anyone's listening. And that's why he told her to send a letter and he's asking her all this stuff over the phone when she's like, not a good idea, son. Yeah, because if he was like, oh, I know exactly what you're talking about. Okay, get off the phone.

Break your phone. I'll be right there. If he had reacted like that, it would have been pretty obvious because even she reacted like that. He's like, well, you should go to the police. I don't think that's a good idea in this situation. And he keeps trying to say like, oh, go to the police. So in a way, she's acting more careful about what she. Yeah. Okay. So just the fact that they're talking on the phone, if there's any inclination at all, even a possibility that it's law enforcement, you don't get on your phones. They're done.

Phones are done. Yeah. Well, so Charlie's like, for being threatened, I'm going to recommend going to the police. They hang up. Within that same hour, Charlie called his mother a third time. And when Donna Sue answered the phone, Charlie told her, quote, obviously don't talk about things in the apartment or any place. End quote. She's in the freaking apartment talking right now. You can hear the kids, her grandsons in the background, Wendy's kids, Dan's kids in the background playing while she's talking on the phone with Charlie about this.

So she's she's in her apartment. And and Donna Sue's like, yes, obviously, I know not to talk about this in the apartment while she's in the apartment. Charlie then asked Donna Sue if the people wanted money. And she told him yes, causing Charlie once again to say that she probably needed to go to the police. Donna Sue said, quote, I may have to, but I'd rather talk to you first. End quote. Donna Sue said that she wanted Charlie to look at the paper she had as to not upset her husband, Harvey. And Charlie agreed, saying, quote, don't say anything to dad until I take a look at it because dad flies off the handle.

End quote. Now, here's the interesting thing. Charlie presses Donna Sue about what the person wanted. What did they ask for? And Donna Sue replied, quote, this TV was probably about five. End quote. To which Charlie responded in a shocked tone, quote, they asked you for $5,000? That's fucking crazy. Yeah, he's being super careful. Yeah. So how did Charlie know that when Donna Sue said the TV was about five, she was saying the blackmailers were asking for $5,000? Well, that's because it's believed that the Adelson family, at least Charlie and his mother, used the word TV as a code of some sort when they were discussing sensitive matters. And where have we heard about a TV before in this

case? Well, when Charlie told Wendy that he had looked into hiring a hitman to take out her ex husband, but he realized that TV was cheaper. So he bought her one as a divorce present. Now, let's talk about that TV because I promised a few episodes ago we were going to get back to this TV. You did. You did. So on the morning of Dan Markell's murder, part of Wendy's alibi was that she'd been at home that morning waiting for a repairman from Best Buy to come and look at her broken television. Now, later, Wendy would testify she wasn't really sure how the TV had gotten broken, but she figured one of her boys had probably thrown something at it and cracked the screen sometime between June 11th and June 18th.

Wendy's ex-boyfriend, Sherlock Holmes, Jeffrey Lacase, he had a lot to say about this TV because he found it so bizarre that Wendy had kept it in the house instead of tossing it out and buying a new one. He said, listen, this wasn't like an extraordinarily nice TV. This was like a regular TV, something you'd have in a dorm room. Not that expensive, probably cost more to fix than to just buy a new one. And he'd even offered to buy her a new one. But Wendy said no, she was going to have it fixed. Now, Jeff told her, listen, this TV screen is cracked to hell. I don't think it can even be fixed. But Wendy still insisted on having the Geek Squad come over on the morning of July 18th to fix it. Jeffrey LaCasse also testified during trial that he did not believe the screen had been cracked by Wendy's sons, Benjamin or Lincoln, throwing something at it.

He said the TV was mounted on the wall in the living room above a console, and he doubted that either of the boys had the strength or dexterity to throw something hard enough or high enough to crack the screen. Jeff said it looked more like someone had punched the TV screen with a closed fist. Jeff also said that Wendy would force him and the boys to watch movies on this broken TV, even though they had a similar television in the bedroom. And Jeff said when he first started coming over to Wendy's house and hanging out with her and the boys, that is where they would watch TV. Before the TV in the living room was even broken, they'd go in the bedroom all together and watch TV. But now she wants to watch TV in the living room. And that day he came over, he rented a DVD, How to Train Your Dragon 2.

They were all going to watch it. Stephanie, can you explain for the audience what a dvd is a dvd is what we had before netflix for real everything's streaming now i can't remember the last time i used a dvd anyways but i mean i still do for like video games and stuff yeah some just yeah games and stuff but yeah it's like it's amazing that but this remember this was what 2014 when yeah no dvs came and went. Yeah. It was relatively fast. DVDs had a short lifespan, for sure.

I don't know, but like 20, they had a good 20 years. Right? 20 years? 20 years, yeah, I would say. 20 years? Yeah, like 1990 to like 2020, honestly. No, I don't know. You're right.

You're right. Yes, they do. 10 years maybe. Wow, that's crazy. They weren't out in 1990. It's like a blip in the radar. They still sell them all over the place. Yeah. So he rented How to Train Your Dragon, part two, the second movie. And he brings it over and he sees the TV in the living room is broken. So he takes the DVD player out of the living room and starts to set it up in the bedroom. And Wendy's like, what are you doing?

And he's like, your TV in your living room is broken. She's like, no, we're watching the movie on that TV in the living room. Put the DVD player back. And he's like, okay, this is weird. Now Jeff said they were all sitting there watching this movie. And he said the image was so distorted and pixelated. He couldn't for the life of him figure out why Wendy wanted to watch the movie on this TV. Because no one would choose to watch that TV if they didn't absolutely have to and they had another TV in the room next

door. So Wendy also testified under oath that she had been the one to make the Best Buy appointment for the morning of July 18th, but Best Buy records showed that it was Wendy's parents who made that appointment for her. The morning of July 18th, Robert Swartz from the Geek Squad arrived to Wendy's home at 8 840 a.m., which was early in the 8 to 12 service window that Best Buy had given. When he got there, he said he called the number listed on the service ticket and a male voice answered. When Swartz asked to speak to Wendy, the man gave him another phone number and said that Robert Swartz could reach Wendy on that phone number. Now, when Robert Swartz from the

Geek Squad went inside and saw the TV, he observed a very large crack on the screen and he informed Wendy that it was not covered by warranty. Swartz said that Wendy's facial expression indicated that she was upset to hear this, and she told him that the TV had been a gift from her brother. She also told him, you know, Charlie's funny joke, like, oh, it was a divorce present because it was cheaper than buying a hitman to kill my ex-husband. Haha, isn't that funny? Man, I just met three minutes ago. Hilarious. Robert Swartz says that Wendy then begins to text someone, and he believed that she was texting her brother in regards to the damaged TV. And despite being told that the TV could not be fixed, Wendy then got on the phone with Charlie that morning for 18 minutes, later claiming they'd only talked about whether or not

to get the TV repaired and to get a new one. Because we have a call between Charlie and Wendy after the Best Buy guy leaves and it's 18 minutes long. And she's asked, well, what were you talking to your brother about for 18 minutes on the phone this morning? Your ex-husband is like shot, you know? And she's like, we were talking about the TV and whether to get it repaired or not. And then they were like, well, why would you talk about that? The Best Buy guy just told you it couldn't be repaired. So why would you be talking about that for almost 20 minutes? Now, no one could really understand why this TV was such a huge issue in everyone's life, especially because Wendy had ample opportunity to buy herself a new one. She could have taken

Jeff up on his offer to buy a new one. She could have had her parents purchase her a new one. Wendy had been in South Florida for her father's 70th birthday, and her parents had driven her back to Tallahassee. Because remember, Wendy cannot drive to Coral Springs or back to Tallahassee without her parents monitoring her. So they drove her back to Tallahassee. They brought her inside, at which time they would have seen this broken TV in her living room. And we all know they had more than enough money to replace it, yet they didn't. And now we have Donna Sue telling Charlie that this TV was going to cost $5,000, leading the prosecution to ask Charlie during his trial, hey, Charlie, is TV code for something? To which he responded, no. And I

actually want you to hear the interaction that Charlie has with this prosecutor, the DA. We're going to go to a break first, but when we come back, I want you to listen to the way he speaks to her, listen to the way he answers questions, and listen to what he's saying and how it makes, in my opinion, absolutely no sense. We're going to do a quick break. And then when we come back, we're going to listen to the clip of Charlie Adelson being asked about whether TV is a code for something or not. We're back from break. And here is that promised clip of Charlie being questioned about his code word, TV. same thing as code? No, they're two totally separate things. You know the difference? You weren't really giving her money for a TV, were you? Giving her money for a TV? This TV is probably going to be about five. I need you to bring cash tonight. I wish she picked

another object on planet Earth other than TV. But TV is code for absolutely nothing. There is no code in this case involving TV. And you keep circling and circling and circling TV. You're wrong. Is it a coincidence that the repair of the TV that you bought Wendy as a divorce gift because it was cheaper than hiring a hitman is your sister's alibi for the murder? And then your mom brings up TV first call on the wire? It's not an alibi for a murder.

She had a broken TV. You've got to askincoln who threw the remote at the tv was it a coincidence is the tv thing a coincidence that's what i hear you say oh that that the repairman was there that day yes sir yeah it's that is a coincidence for sure there's a couple of coincidences in this case i'm sorry i cut you off i said there's a couple of coincidences in this case i mean she had people send her an email to go buy a bottle of bullet bourbon for their stock, the bar party. And she was driving to a liquor store to buy a bottle of bullet bourbon on that day at that time.

And her friend sent the email and you have the email and evidence. Like, is that a coincidence? Yeah. Coincidence has happened. All right. What's your thoughts on that video, Stephanie? What are my thoughts on that video? First of all, it don't make no sense.

She's like, why would you use TV as code for something? He's like, I wish she'd chosen any other word but that, but it's not a code. Well, if she wasn't actually speaking about a TV to the point where she could have chosen any other word to fill that word in with, then it's a code, dude. Yeah. Hello? Here's an idea. Just use the actual word of what you're referring to.

Why would you use it? And he's like, no, like I wish she'd used any other word. If you could just put any random word in there, you're speaking in code. Therefore, TV is code. And he seems to be like agitated with her. He's like, you keep talking about this code, code. Like you're going around in circles. But you just admitted it was a code because she didn't use the real word that she wanted to use because you wish you would have used a different word.

Like it's ridiculous. And Donna Sue's writing emails to Wendy like, oh, I know you're a good actress. Charlie is the actor in the family. Charlie, if I didn't know and I just listened to this and I didn't know anything about this case, I think this dude was being honest. We know he's not. And that's concerning because he seems convinced of what he's saying. And the best liars have convinced themselves that what they're saying is true in a way. And it seems that he's reached that point because he seems almost like he's put out by being asked these questions. Like, why are you? What's code TV? Yeah, it's coincidence, man. You know, Wendy just happened to be driving by Dan's house on the time that he was murdered. Like that's a coincidence. Everything's a coincidence. Well, I don't believe in coincidences. Okay. I don't, Charlie. What do you think about that clip? I don't, I mean, it's a short clip. So I think it'd be, I'd be reaching if I'm like, oh,

I can take all of this away from this clip. Like I'm some body language expert. Right. But I think it's just self-explanatory, commonsensical. It's what you said. She asks him deliberately, right out, hey, was the TV a code word for something else, for this hitman? No, it wasn't. I wish she would have used any other word on this world instead of TV. Well, why would she have to, like you just said,

why would she have to choose any other words? You would just, why are she speaking in code to begin with? Why not just say what it is? Hey, listen, it's going to be $5,000 for this, whatever it also,

again, just coming back to common sense. It doesn't take an investigator, put this together. Their conversation earlier in that day was about the, you know, the potential of an extortion and all these other things. And so it lines up that this was for that. A hitman. This was in relation to that. A hitman. Not a TV.

You've used the word TV to relate to hitmen before. You're using the word TV to relate to hitmen again. Now he's an idiot because if I was Charlie, I would have been like, yeah, it is a code word, but it's not. It wasn't a code word for like murder or hit man. It was a code word for blackmail because my nephews were there and she didn't want to say that stuff around them. So, yeah, she just used that word. And and I wish she'd used a different word because I didn't even understand what she was saying when she was saying. But he could have said anything. Instead, he's just denying outright.

It's a code when it clearly is a code. And that's and that's what you take away from that clip, which is it's not always about the demeanor. Just listen to what they're actually saying. Because even though he's displaying a level of confidence in what he's saying, it's nonsensical. It doesn't add up what he's saying. So if you just were to mute that clip, you'd say, wow, he looks pretty convincing and he looks like he's pretty sure of what he's saying. But then when you actually take a second, close your eyes and just hear what he's actually saying and break down the transcript.

If you were to put this in writing, you'd say, wait, what? He's admitting it's a code word, but then also saying there's no way it's a code. So it's contradictory. Yeah. And he gets real sassy with this prosecutor, like often, you know, to the point where the judge has to cut in because they're both like being catty with each other and going back and forth which i can't blame her it happens all the time yeah but it's just it's so funny that the the lack of self-awareness and the audacity of this dude to be like to have to have the balls to be like pissed and like catty and like sassy with her at this point when you're the one sitting in the witness stand and you're the one on trial for murder yeah so it happens it happens even with law enforcement. Sometimes

you get some defense attorneys and I guess you could say prosecutors as well. Absolutely. I've personally experienced it where you get some defense attorneys who are very disrespectful and the way they're speaking to you. And I don't think she was disrespected. He was. No, no. Yeah. I'm not saying in that case, but I'm saying in my own experience, just having situations where you try to go in there, you try to remain professional. But sometimes in my, again, I've only been on that side of it where you'll have a defense attorney who, you know, is pushing your buttons and- I think it's a tactic.

They're trying to get you to like react poorly. Yeah. There's ways you can talk back without being, without stooping to that level. And I won't lie to you. There's definitely times when they've asked me a stupid question and they've gotten a stupid answer, you know, it happens. Yeah. I definitely don't think that he I think he was being disrespectful. And I think it was it's a huge clash of personalities, too. I think that happens. Well, he's trying to overcompensate. If I had to go out on a limb and analyze this, he's trying to overcompensate by displaying

an overt level of of over the top level of confidence. Like, guys, like, look at what she's asking me right now. I'm offended that I'm even being asked this. She's making no sense whatsoever. You know, he's trying to exaggerate how egregious this question is when in reality it makes perfect sense. It's completely on. It's the exact question she should be asking in that moment. It's literally gaslighting. And I'll take it one step further to say that I don't believe Charlie really respects women at all. So it's probably a bit triggering for him to be in this almost submissive position to this woman when we know how he treats women and what he thinks about them and when they piss him off what he does to them.

Yeah. Yeah, oh yeah. We don't have to repeat that. So after hanging up with his mother, Charlie called Katie Magbanua. He'd already tried to call her an hour prior, but she hadn't answered the phone. This time, Katie did pick up. And Charlie told her that someone had approached his mother on the street asking her for money and had mentioned an ex-girlfriend of his. So he was calling her because she had been his last girlfriend, which wasn't true, by the way. And Katie responded, quote, you have like a thousand ex-girlfriends, end quote. Charlie told Katie that he wasn't sure if it did involve her, but he was going to see his mother the next day and he would let her know if her name had been specifically mentioned. An hour and a half later, Charlie and Katie were back on the phone and Katie was worried about what she might have to do with this, like why she might be involved. To which Charlie responded that he wanted to see her the next day to talk because

she was like one of his best friends. Yeah, what he did to her? Well, definitely. That's what you do to somebody you really care about who you consider a best friend. Katie then asked Charlie if he thought she might be involved because she worked for him and she said she should be given employee of the month considering everything that had happened. Charlie told her, quote, just make sure you call those patients that I gave you the list from the other day, end quote. And Katie replied, I did. I always do, end quote. Now, Katie Magbunawa never actually worked for Charlie. That's what we were kind of going back and forth with last episode.

She didn't work for him. When they were talking on the phone, she made it sound like she worked for him. But what they were doing was the phone, she made it sound like she worked for him. But what they were doing was once again talking in code. So when he was saying, oh, call that list of patients, he wasn't talking about a list of patients. He was talking about other people he wanted her to call. So she never actually legally worked for him. She was never physically at the office at the Adelson Institute working. She was just sort of like getting checks from them based on what other work she was doing. She's on the payroll, but she's not physically working for them.

Yeah. So Charlie's like, make sure you call those patients. And Katie's like, I did. I always do. Katie's phone had been tapped for almost two weeks by that point. And there was no indication that she had placed any calls to any patients. The two made plans to meet the next day at 4 p.m. and they hung up. So the next day, Charlie arrived at Donna Sue's condo at 1235 p.m. and he and his mother sat outside at a table behind the building. They did not stay in the apartment. They went outside. They went to like a very isolated area and they talked there. Unfortunately, even though there were agents there who were trying to record what they were saying, they couldn't get close enough and nothing they said in that conversation was captured on surveillance. After finishing his conversation with his mother, Charlie called Katie

and told her that he was on his way to her place of employment, which was a real estate office in Sunny Isle. He arrived around 3.14 p.m. and the two chatted briefly outside the office before going to Dolce Vita, a restaurant in the same strip mall as Katie's real estate office. Undercover FBI agents followed the pair into the restaurant and they sat at a table right next to the one that Charlie and Katie sat at. Both agents had bags containing recording devices and there was cameras inside the bag that was filming the interactions through small holes. Because of the noise in this small restaurant, it looks like they have like an open kitchen setup. So you could hear like pans,

people talking, you know. By the way, another thing we used to always do is bring back some good memories of little technological things we would do to get, you know, we'd have, if we had a female undercover agent, we would have them wear a purse. And at the end of each side of the purse, there could be little, just all it has to do is be a little rip in the purse. Something you can't even really see. And the cameras adhere to the backside of that hole. And these cameras are so good where even if it just has this little opening, it has this wide angle that once it goes past the opening, it can see everything. And then we would normally have different recorders just as a form of redundancy.

So that if for some reason the camera went down, we would at least have audio. Yes. And I mean, they did their best, but like I said, they didn't pick the spot. They weren't prepared for the environment. And I think that when you're undercover, that's probably something you have to always sort of roll with. Like you may, yeah, you have to adapt and do the best you can. Now the audio was pretty bad. It did get cleaned up by the FBI afterwards. So there is a transcript available and I can't read you the whole thing, but it is available online. If you want to go read it, there's a bunch of stuff that said, I wish I could go through the whole. The problem is, even if they bug this, even if they bug your home phone, you're still not talking about any of this. So my point is, how do you get people to talk? You throw smoke grenades and then you get all the cockroaches to run out. Listen, if that's what it was, it's very smart because it means that my mom hasn't told my dad anything. My mom knows my dad is going to flip out when he finds out, but my mom hasn't

told my dad anything. End quote. So just to stop real quick, because I know you have a lot of this transcript to go through. So I want to kind of break it down as we go so I don't miss points. Last episode, we talked about Harvey and his knowledge of what was taking place. Does this transcript change your mind in any way? So when I read this part of the transcript, yes. But then when I got further into these interactions that the bump triggered, no. Okay.

Okay. Gotcha. Now, does this Charlie saying, what would law enforcement do if they wanted to get the cockroaches to come out? They'd throw smoke grenades. Does this change your opinion on how much he knew or felt that law enforcement may have been behind this? No, I think he's playing hypotheticals, honestly.

And as all, I've been on the other end of these wiretaps, a constant battle of like, listen, this could be legit. Just overthinking kind of, just kind of overthinking. No, not even overthinking, it's like scenarios. Like every criminal I've dealt with has always, even when I was undercover, there's been points where I had a situation where this guy was holding drugs inside of a video game system, an Xbox. He had hollowed out the back of it. And he was like, oh, I did this in case they ever searched my room. Well, he wasn't under the impression at that point that he was under surveillance or whatever, but they're planning preemptively to try to stop something if it

happens. So I think when you have someone approach you out of the blue, trying to extort money from you, the first thought is going to be, well, we know what our involvement is. They knew that they were involved. So it's one of two things. Either this is some nefarious individuals from southern Florida who want some skin in the game or this is the cops. But as it said in the top of this, he said, listen, if we had any evidence that they were onto us, we would have already taken the trip. We would have been at the airport. We would have been at the airport. So that's not right.

So isn't this like, yeah, isn't him just even considering that it could be law enforcement an admission of some kind that he knows they did something wrong that law enforcement could be like tracking them for? It's that. A hundred percent it's that. But it's also him acknowledging that if he thought this was law enforcement and they had something, he wouldn't be sitting there having that conversation. So that to me tells me, I think it should tell everyone that although it was a thought crossing his mind that it could be the cops, he didn't know how, how bad they had him already. He really didn't. So then Charlie starts talking about, you know, talking his like tough guy game, like, Oh, I'm going to start carrying a gun around. Cause I dare somebody to come up to me and ask me for money like I wish they would, you know,

I'll take care of them, blah, blah, blah, like he's some tough guy. So he talks about that for a little bit. And then Charlie says, quote, Katie, this is not like some chick showing off tattoos to your man. This is happening. And it's serious because these people are going to come back. They didn't go through all the trouble of seeking my mom out to hand her that and then go away, end quote. Charlie then instructed Katie on what to do if someone with a badge approached her. He said, tell them if you're going to charge me, charge me. Otherwise, I don't talk to cops. And she repeats this as if committing it to memory. She's like, OK, like, charge me if you're going to charge me. I don't talk to cops. And she's saying it as in like, oh, I'm trying to remember this in case the police approach me. Charlie confidently says, quote, they didn't mention my name, which makes me think that these people only know part of the story or they think they know part of the story. Let me ask you a question. When everybody was there the next day, did any of you take any money? It's not like you're driving around in a Bentley cruising around in a mega yacht. You know, there's no evidence, OK? You have a car and you can link this person to renting that car that's used at the scene of the crime. But you know,

you also have to prove that they were driving that day too. End quote. He's so stupid. He's so stupid, man. He's just going to, cause he doesn't know he's being recorded at this point. He thinks that they're just, yeah, he thinks that their phones might be tapped, but he hasn't realized there's people like following them around. He says, when everybody was there the next day, did any of you take any money? What? Can you imagine what the FBI agents as they're sitting there? They're salivating at this point, by the way. They're like, keep talking, Charlie.

They're like, we're buying a round for everybody. Good luck, Chuck. You screwed yourself. So then Charlie basically goes over all the reasons he could not possibly be connected. He says, I don't know anyone who's incarcerated. You know, there's no connection between you, Katie, and my mother, Donna Sue. And he then says, quote, if it's a cop, I'm happy because I've got nothing to hide. If it was a cop, I think it would be so easy to do. First, they're going to ask my parents to take a lie detector test, which they won't do just for the simple reason that those things give false positives all the time. End quote. Charlie also suggested that they make a one-time charity payment to the blackmailer. The quote is, if, you say, if they had any evidence, we'd have already gone to the airport. And I know you already testified about this, but does an innocent person say if they had any evidence? Right. Katie's saying it's the police, and I'm saying that we're innocent. They're not going to have any evidence to show we were a part of something that we were a part of.

If we had any part of this, we'd be going to the airport right now. Isn't it true, doctor, that they're not going to have any evidence because you were careful? No, because we weren't a part of this. You were smart. No, we weren't a part of this. You walled yourself off from the killers. I was sure they were not going to have evidence to show I did something I didn't do. So we're not running to the airport.

You're untouchable, right? No, we didn't do a murder. I wasn't part of a murder. There's no reason to run to the airport. In the next clip, you're discussing what's going to happen if this person that did the bump goes to the police. And you're going through all these scenarios, you know, these possibilities. Wait, if he goes to the police? Yeah, the blackmailer goes to the police.

They're going to say, where's the weapon? He's not going to know. He's just going to have hearsay, basically. Someone told me they did it. It's not going to be enough to get the investigation anywhere. Why are you thinking through the possibility of the blackmailer going to the cops if the blackmailer doesn't have any dirt on you to take to the cops? I wasn't thinking about the blackmailer. What I was trying to say is I don't know anything about Sufredo. I don't know anything about this crime. I was trying to tell her that I'm harmless. I don't know anything about Sufredo. I don't know anything about this crime. I was trying to tell her that I'm harmless.

I don't have any knowledge of what went on. The last thing I wanted is that now that she's saying it's the police, is someone to come and kill me and think I'm some kind of loose end. So that's why I'm saying that. But that's not what you're saying. You're saying if this is a person that Luis Rivera ran his mouth to and they go to the police, it's going to be worth zero. if this is a person that Luis Rivera ran his mouth to, and they go to the police, it's going to be worth zero.

Because they're not going to know anything other than, hey, my brother told me this. I don't know if I was saying that someone knows Luis Rivera. I was trying to make a point that I don't know anything. And then you suggest what they would have to do is get him to wear a wire and get the person to confess, and that's probably what this could be, an effort to do, right? Well, they're thinking that we were part of a murder, so this was the same thing I said before, is that this is their theory, so this is a police tactic, and it could be either a bad guy or the police,

and this is how they're pursuing it. Exactly. So as long as you keep your mouth shut you can get away with murder right no not at all isn't that what you told ryan fitzpatrick no ryan fitzpatrick is someone who stole over half a million dollars that's not my question sir did you say that to ryan no never never at all why do you go into so much detail about rental car examples let's start with strike that can you agree that the prius you knew that the police Why do you go into so much detail about rental car examples? Let's start with that. Can you agree that the Prius, you knew that the police were looking for a Prius

at the time you met at this Dolce Vita restaurant? I think it had been released at that time. Sounds like you're saying even if they track down the Prius, even if there's DNA or fingerprints in the Prius, meaning they can link someone to the Prius. That's not going to be enough evidence to make any arrests in this case. Is that what you're saying? No, not at all.

What I'm doing is restating... You've answered my question. Can I give you an answer? On redirect, you'll have an opportunity. My question was... One moment. We're not just wildly arguing. Mr. Adelson, please

answer the question. I can just ask you a yes or no question. Please allow me to answer your question. Can I? Yeah. Okay, sure. What I was saying to Katie is that the information she had just told me in the car about Sigfredo not being there when

the crime was committed. She told me that Sigfredo was on high on drugs at the hotel and that Louise had rented a car and that he's the one who killed Dan. And I'm restating to her that I don't have any knowledge of what went on and that all I know is that Sigfredo wasn't even there when this happened. So that's what I'm restating to her. That Sigfredo can't be caught even if he's connected to the crime? I know that Sigfredo wasn't the one who killed Dana. Okay, so there's a lot to discuss there. But before we do continue on and talk about that clip,

let's take our last break. We'll be right back. We have some things that are happening in this conversation, in this clip that we just played you that we haven't really discussed yet. And next episode, we're going to get into that. And basically, it's what Charlie is going to claim happened once he gets caught. And he's going to claim, I had no idea it was Katie and Siegfriedo and Luis. They went behind my back. They were trying to extort me. And he's claiming that before they got to the restaurant in the car, Katie told him, hey, I know who killed Dan Markell. It was Luis Rivera. Me and Siegfriedo had nothing to do with it. And so this is what the excuse Charlie's giving for why he's talking about, like, well, if they had evidence against us, I'd be at the police station. And I was just going based off of what she said in the car, which conveniently enough, we have no idea what that conversation was because their car wasn't tapped. They weren't on their cell phones. And he knows this by now because he's gotten the discovery. His lawyers have the discovery. He knows what the police have. Exactly. So he's using what he knows from the discovery to kind of create this story that doesn't make any sense. However, does cover his bases on why he said what, even though it doesn't logically make any sense, which we're going to get into next episode like the prosecutor's going to be like, oh, I thought Katie Meg Benua was blackmailing you.

He's like, she was. She came over and like took all this money out of my safe. And the prosecutor's like, well, why did you let her spend the night at your house that night? Then if you thought you were being blackmailed and you were in danger, he's like, well, you know, I didn't think she was a part of it. I just thought she was like the middleman. He's got every excuse in the book. But really, it's just this convenient scapegoat and excuse, which puts him in a place where he had no knowledge until apparently Katie told him in the car that it was Luis Rivera. And he's like, oh, my God, how did I? I have nothing to do with this. All I was saying was I had nothing to do with this. Convenient.

So not only did the investigators have Charlie and Katie's phones tapped, they had placed a hidden camera on a telephone pole outside the townhouse where Katie lived, which was sometimes also occupied by the father of her children, Sigfredo Garcia. The day after Katie met with Charlie, she called Sigfredo and asked him to figure out who had given the flyer to Donna Sue and who the number written on the flyer belonged to. She told him to call the flyer number, but she had to speak in code, telling him that she couldn't remember whether she'd spent $65.70 on clothes for her son or if she spent $60.57 because that was the last four digits of the phone number. She couldn't remember if it was 6057 or 6570. She couldn't remember the last four digits of the number that Charlie had given her when they were at the restaurant. Now, the funny thing is, Charlie asked Katie to call that number and figure it out. She was like, OK. But then she calls Sigfrido and she's like, you call this number and figure it out. And he's like, I'm not going to do that. She's like,

you will. You will do this. You know, they're arguing. And he's like, fine, I will. He didn't call the number either. He's like, nope, not doing that. Smart, smart, honestly. You know, the real criminals actually know how to protect themselves. He probably was like, this could be cops. Yep. So nobody. Oh, God. So real quick, before we go forward, I want to go back because this is why I love this case because we've talked about a button cam. We've talked about a bag cam and now we've talked about a pole cam. Some of the three best instruments that I use when I was undercover doing search warrants weekly pole cam. Another thing, another form of technology we have. It's obviously much more advanced.

Now I won't get into that because I don't want to ruin it for anyone. But when I was on, we'd install these telephone pole cams. They could stay up there for 30 days, even longer sometimes based on the battery pack. There'd be an IP address that this camera was connected to. And I would literally, it's obviously recording 24 seven, but I would literally come in in the mornings when I was watching a specific house and I could log into this IP and just go through the footage and see all the cars, all the license plates, because these cameras were good. Like you could zoom right in. You go on there, see the people coming and going, identify targets, identify vehicles.

Again, that's why I just love this case because they had a lot on the surface, but it just kind of wraps up everything we had. We had the surveillance footage, the tracking of the vehicle, the tracking of the Prius, the toll booth system that was used to identify the vehicle, the rental car company, the GPS. You think about how much technology, which I love, you know this, is involved with this case and developing this overall case against them. It's just an incredible amount of resources, technology, and manpower that went into this one. And work, yeah.

Like planning to execute this without being obvious about it. Because make no mistake about it. Think what you want. Charlie, Donna, they're not dumb people. They didn't get to where they are in life by being dumb. So they really did on the surface think they covered their bases. So police had to work for this one.

And there obviously were mistakes made. As I always say, if criminals didn't make mistakes, you know, they wouldn't get caught because we're looking for those mistakes. I don't know, man. I don't know if they should have picked people who knew a girl that Charlie dated. Like, did you really cover your bases?

Because they could have just gone to any. He thought he was creating that. Yeah, he thought. He thought he was creating enough distance, but he wasn't. He thought he was creating enough distance where it was someone he could trust, but also someone far enough away where if the police officers didn't do their job, they wouldn't make the connection of Katie to him. And he was wrong. But anyways, I know you have a lot more to go. I just, I wanted to really emphasize how much work went into this case because it wasn't all there for them. There was, again, the fact that those FBI agents were at that

restaurant means that they had been following him all day in a car without being seen so that they could get out of that car quickly and throw the bags on the chair to get the recording of this conversation. This is a lot of work. And listen, I don't even know if it was the same agents who were like behind because they were behind the Adelson's condo when Charlie and Donna were talking and they were like kind of close by like in that same general picnic area, but they couldn't get close enough. I don't know if it was the same agents that were also at the Dolce Vita restaurant. Probably not. Because they're going to know if you see the same guy watching you sitting next to you enough, there's a whole team. So they're going to swap them out. So yeah, they did their

due diligence. You got to leapfrog too. A common tactic we use, we obviously want to switch up cars, switch up a personnel so that we can coordinate where the targets of the investigation aren't seeing the same people or the same vehicles too often, because that could tip them off. Yeah. So at this point, no one's called the number on the flyer, but Katie tells Charlie, yeah, I called. The number is not working. It's not leading to anywhere. So it's probably nothing. And Charlie's like, OK, he's encouraged. He's like, see, the law enforcement wanted to see, could they get more? So four days later, with no movement coming from their bump, law enforcement sent a letter to Donna and Harvey Adelson that simply said, quote, My phone is not ringing, so you don't care about Tato and what he did for you. He knows he is fucked and soon so will you.

End quote. And unluckily for Donna Sue, her husband Harvey was the person who ended up opening this letter. So during a phone conversation that happened on April 27th, Charlie Adelson asked his mother, is dad still upset about everything? That's what he says. And she responds, quote, yeah, he's not having the best day, end quote. Now, this was followed by a flurry of activity between Katie, Charlie and Donna Sue talking in code as they tried to, you know, communicate the correct phone number from the flyer to Katie. And Charlie was able to tell his mother, don't worry, Katie's taking care of it. She's calling the blackmailer. And like I said, Katie told Charlie she called.

She said she tried both numbers, but no one had picked up at either. This was not true. She'd given the father of her children, Sigfrido Garcia, the task of dealing with this blackmail threat, and he did not do it. So when Charlie explained all of this to Donna Sue, he was like, don't worry. We're dealing with someone who just wants to get a quick payday. They may not be serious or dangerous if they didn't even pick up when the number was called, which didn't happen. The number was never called. Of course, the authorities are listening to all of these calls

go down, so they upped the ante. On April 28th, undercover FBI agent Oscar Jimenez called the Adelson Institute and asked to speak with Donna Sue Adelson. But Erica, an employee of the Institute, she took his call and she was like, no, Donna Sue's not available. Jimenez told Erica, listen, my name's Sammy. Donna Sue's going to remember me because I gave her some paperwork last week. Oscar Jimenez said, you know, Donna needs to know this is important. I need to find out what she thinks about the paperwork I gave her. Donna Sue wasn't at the office that day, but when she was informed about the call from Erica, she called her son Charlie and let him know about this new development in their blackmail saga. The number that Sammy had

given Erica was the same number that Katie had allegedly called. And so Charlie was confused. So he told his mother to once again not worry. He hung up with her. He tried calling Katie multiple times. Eventually, they got on the phone. They talked for over 20 minutes. And Charlie sounds less assured and confident during this call. Charlie was upset with Katie, and he demanded her to find out who was behind the scheme. And Katie once again lied to Charlie. And she was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I called both these numbers.

Like, nobody's picking up. This is bullshit. But he was not so easily reassured this time. Call the fucking number that I gave you the other day. I know it was not working the other day when you called. Call it again. reassured this time. I'm not f**king with you, I'm not f**king with you. I'm standing outside f**king street. Okay? Call that number. Whatever it is, if I was f**king with your family, f**king with my family, I'm f**king sending somebody off.

I'm f**king with you. And I don't care what that f**king day is. And you know what? You're f**king with me. You're not f**king with me. You're not f**king with me. Okay, what do you want me to do? You want to call my f**king boss? What's that? You wanna call my fucking phone? I didn't hear what, where did you call from? I'm just saying.

I'm just saying. Call him, Shane. I'm just saying. I'm gonna call my friend. Call my friend. You go ahead. You go ahead and you fucking find your fucking phone and you call. all right so that was just a little clip from the phone call to show you how pissed katie was at this point because she knows she's's like, this does not sound right.

Things are unraveling. Yeah, yeah. She's like, I called this number 100 times. She didn't because she knows better than to call this freaking number, right? I think she partially is more onto it than anybody else. She's thinking somebody's setting us up. She is. And both her and Sigfrido Garcia know it's a bad idea to call this number.

And that's why neither of them did it. She tried to push it off on him. And by the way, point out the obvious why is charlie not calling the phone because he then that's why she's saying you freaking call it yeah dude if you're so sure you call yeah he's trying to set her up and she's like dude and she's trying to set sick frito up yeah yeah they're all they're all trying to pass the pass the blame game so to your point you make it earlier they don't know if this is legitimate i think if it was legitimate they would have paid it and it would have been on its way. But they're all thinking this could also be a setup. This could also be the cops.

And I'm not going to be the one to call that phone number because now I'm implicated. Now I'm the one I'm an accessory to murder. Yeah. Cause if you think about it and you're like just a person walking on the street and somebody hands you a flyer and you have no idea what they're talking about, you ain't calling that number. You're going to be like, all right, this is some weirdo who knows I'm like related to Dan Markell. They're like maybe a true crime person, some weirdo who's just like invested in this case. And I'm not calling this number. I don't need to involve myself with it. You wouldn't be like arguing about who should call the number. Right. Yeah. No, it's you can tell it's all starting to unravel and everyone's trying to save themselves. This is self-preservation mode. They see the writing on the wall. It could be just as exactly how it going to be to the FBI. And then when they do catch the person, they're going to be asking him lots of questions about who Katie is. Find out who the fuck it is. That's all I'm asking you. End quote. Yeah, if I have to be the one to call someone, I'm calling the FBI and I'm going to set them on you.

When Charlie called Donna back, he had started developing his own theory, telling her he believed that a private investigator or someone from the FBI was behind the whole thing. He actually said, quote, or someone trying to fish around and stir the pot to see and to see how people react, end quote. You're right, Charles. Spot on, buddy. He explained the bump. Yep, you're right on. And you could tell by that phone call, by the way, they're concerned. They're freaking scrambling. Scrambling.

So Donna Sue mentions Charlie's friend, a.k.a. Katie, who would be able to look into the situation. And Charlie told his mother, he already had that in the works, but he was now going to try to call the number himself. So when Charlie Adelson called the number on the flyer, someone did pick up because it's the first time anyone's actually calling this number.

That's right. That's right. And it was Oscar Jimenez, but he's posing as Sammy, the gang member. So Charlie tells Sammy, like, you know, first Charlie's like, Sammy's like, hello. And Charlie's like, hi, who is this? And he's like, who's this. So Charlie tells Sammy, like, you know, first, Charlie's like, Sammy's like, hello. And Charlie's like, hi, who is this? And he's like, who's this?

Blah, blah, blah, you know? And Charlie's like, listen, someone's been like calling my family and contacting my family, and I'm trying to figure out who it is. Oscar Jimenez, aka Sammy, tells Charlie, quote, well, what's going on is my brother Tato has not been taken care of. His family has not been taken care of. His family has not been taken care of, end quote. Charlie says he doesn't know anyone named Tato, to which Jimenez responds, quote, you know Katie and Chuto. They've been taken care of since the family problem has been taken care of up north, end quote. Charlie replies, listen, I don't even know who you are. And Jimenez responds, quote, well, this isn't going away, my friend, because let me tell you something.

I was at Broward with Tato and he told me the whole story. He told me nobody has taken care of him. Nobody has taken care of his family. The family was taken care of of Katie and Tuto and nothing has been taken care of with Tato. So we know we know what's going on and Tato needs to be taken care of. Do the right thing. The lady already has the paperwork. She knows what I'm talking about.

End quote. Charlie maintained on this phone conversation that he had never met any of these people, but he was like, all right, I'm going to figure out what's going on and I'm going to get back to you. Now, nobody ever calls Sammy again, by the way, but he hangs up with him. The following chain of events was Charlie calling Katie, Katie calling Sigfrido Garcia and telling him, quote, it's getting too detailed. It's somebody that knows for sure. End quote. Now, Sigfrido Garcia and telling him, quote, it's getting too detailed. It's somebody that knows for sure, end quote. Now, Sigfrido Garcia was telling Katie that he was handling it, that he was calling the number and leaving voicemails for Sammy, but he wasn't. Katie

was telling Charlie that it was being handled, but it wasn't, which is why on May 4th, Oscar Jimenez sent out another feeler in the form of a text message sent to Donna Sue's cell phone, quote, so you don't take me serious? You think I'm playing? You have some puta? Call me to see if I'm for real? If you think what Katie's baby daddy did for you can't come back, you're fucking crazy. I want the money now or I'm going after the 100K, end quote. And he's referring to the reward money that the Tallahassee Police Department was offering for information on the murder of Dan Markell. As a team of law enforcement watched and filmed, Charlie, his mother, and his father Harvey huddled together outside the Adelson's condo. Once again, there was no helpful audio garnered from the surveillance

because the Adelson's whispered closely amongst themselves. But it might answer your question last week of whether or not Harvey Adelson was aware prior to the arrest that his wife and son had been up to something nefarious. Now, I will say he probably wasn't aware until he got that letter from Oscar Jimenez. And then he asked Donna, he's like, what the hell is this? And then Donna was like, OK, listen, this is what happened, which is why Charlie was like calling her and saying, is dad still upset? And she's like, yeah, he's not having the best day. You know, he's not having the best day because he just realized that his wife and his son are murderers. But he was definitely aware before they were arrested, before Donna was arrested. Because what the hell were they talking about outside the condo all huddled up and

whispering? I agree. You're agreeing with me now. I see what you did there. Look at the smirk on your face. Don't try me, Charles Adelson. Don't make me play back from last week where you were like, I don't think Harvey knew. And I was like, well, what is his wife telling him? We're going to Vietnam out of nowhere? No, I do not think Harvey, exactly what I said. Let's play it back. I said, I don't think Harvey was involved with this.

I don't think that he was involved in the hit at all. But once you know Harvey, once Harvey knew. What else did I say? What else did I say? If he had known, they would have arrested him too with Donna at the airport. He knew before Charlie or Donna were arrested. He knew a year before these people were arrested. I hope everyone's seeing this right now.

So let me ask you, why if you know. That's not a crime, by the way. If you know, it is a crime. No, it's not. It's a crime to know that your wife and son paid to have your son-in-law murdered. And then you just sit there and do nothing. And you actively and like willingly go to the airport. It's unethical. It's a crime to know that your wife and son paid to have your son-in-law murdered and then you just sit there and do nothing and you actively and like willingly go to the airport. It is not a crime. It's not a crime.

Listen, if you witness a crime, if you witness a crime or you know of a person who committed a crime, it's not a crime to not come forward. Now, he has a- It should be. Okay, well, there's a difference. So that's ethical and moral, right? Like what if he helped plan their getaway? Is that a crime? If he helped get Donna out of the country, I would say so. You have an argument there where it's like, now you could be considered an accessory. And I would even go this far. Let's say hypothetically, and it doesn't appear this is

the case that once Harvey is brought into the fold, right, he gets this letter. Now they have to come clean. And by the way, Charles didn't even tell him he made his mommy do it. Mommy tells him what happened, tells him, hey, listen, this is what we did. We're in trouble. And at that point, if Harvey, if they found evidence that suggests Harvey went and pulled five G's from his account to pay these guys off. I think he got an argument there. I think he got an argument there because now he's contributing to the coverup of this. But just the mere, just again, he doesn't have to testify or go out and incriminate his significant other or his child. So the fact that they told him.

He doesn't have to testify or incriminate against his child. He has the right against not when a police department comes and talks to him. He doesn't have to say, yeah, they told me that they killed this person. He doesn't have to say that. It's not a he's not obligated to do that. It's the right thing to do. Now, if he goes physically and starts to impede the investigation, you could have an obstruction charge. But I think at this point,

I think we both agree this is a good thing. We're saying more than likely this was something that was conjured by Charlie, Donna, and we haven't even really talked about Wendy yet. I'm sure we're going to, but at minimum, those two people, and it sounds like on the surface, Harvey wasn't involved in this planning. I think it was something where Donna talked to Charlie. Charlie said, I can handle this. Charlie went to Katie and that's when it all went down. But after the fact, when this bump occurred, that's when Harvey was made aware of what happened,

which is why last week we were asking the question, who in their right mind would just agree to go to Vietnam with their spouse without knowing why? It's apparent to me that when he was getting on that plane at the Miami International Airport, he knew why they were going to Vietnam and what had occurred. There's no doubt in my mind about that. But again, that's not a crime and that's why they put her in handcuffs and not him. Okay. Okay. But we're on the same page. This is progress in our relationship.

I just feel like, I don't know. This is progress. Take it. Don't ruin it. No, it's fine. It's just to me, like if Harvey knew anything a year or a year and a half before any arrest happened, like there's some issue there with him keeping that to himself. I don't know. On the surface. Yes, I do agree. And I'm not saying it's right, but I think we've talked about this before where if my son or daughter came to me and said, dad, I did this, you know, if I decided not to go turn them into the police, could the police charge me with a crime just for knowing? No, they couldn't. Now, if I helped him cover it up, that's a problem. So I guess it depends on your level of involvement. Yeah, Harvey's upset, but it never said like, yeah, he's going to get us the money.

We're good. Now, if they said that, I think there's a charge there. All right. Well, we'll see. I want to hear your guys' thoughts in the comments. Definitely. If you're watching on YouTube. For sure.

What do you think about this? This is a win for Crime Weekly. Yeah. Stephanie and Derek are agreeing. It's making us closer. Took us a while. If you say so. I'm going to go back and listen to that episode and see what you said.

You should. And you're going to twist what I said. But again, we talked specifically. Oh my God. What is it? You have said all along that you thought Harvey was in on it. No, I said I think he knew. I think he knew.

Knew when? Knew at some point before that airport. Because I said, I literally remember saying like, why would you just like go to the airport knew i think he knew knew when knew at some point before that airport because i said i literally remember saying like why would you just like go to the airport and your wife's like we're going to vietnam and it's a one-way ticket and you'd be like okay honey and not ask any questions and by the way i don't even know if he knew before the airport i i think it's probably they're talking yeah i i agree to what extent to what extent well if they're whispering and they're trying to keep it hidden, it's not something they'd want anybody to hear. No, for sure.

They're not just talking about what their 4th of July plans are. Right. No, I agree with that. I'm more referring to, and I believe if I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong. I was under the impression we were referring to criminal liability. Was Harvey in on this? How far did this go? I mean, I'm sure just like Wendy, Harvey heard multiple times Donna and Charlie being like, we wish we could kill Dan Raquel. I agree with that. This family's moral compass is not just broken, like shattered. So when Charlie left his super secretive conversation with his parents, he called Donna Sue and he said,

OK, listen, call Sammy, make arrangements to pay the $5,000 and let him know this is a one time payment out of courtesy. So Donna Sue did call Sammy on May 6th, but she did not follow her son's plan. She told Sammy she had no idea what he was talking about. She and her family had nothing to do with Dan Markell's death, and she let the blackmailer know he wouldn't be seeing a penny of her money. Quote, if you want money, you should get it from the police. They can give you a whole lot more than you're asking me for. I just can't. I can't do this. I've had too much stress and aggravation from this, and I don't know what you're talking about. End quote. Oscar Jimenez, aka Sammy, he kept pushing, telling Donna he knew exactly who was involved, and she had been involved.

Donna Sue hung up with Sammy, promising to call him back, but no, she did not. No one ever called the blackmail number again. When Donna Sue talked to Charlie about her conversation with Sammy, she used code words again, calling Sammy a patient. At this point, law enforcement felt they were ready for their next steps, And these steps would be to talk to Sigfrido Garcia and Katie. Officers were sent to Katie's condo and to Garcia's job on May 24th, prompting Katie and Sigfrido to buy burner cell phones from Walmart before making moves to vacate Katie's condo. When Sigfrido Garcia returned to the condo to pick up some items on May 25th, he was arrested.

And this would start a domino effect of arrests. And that is where we'll pick up some items on May 25th. He was arrested and this would start a domino effect of arrests. And that is where we'll pick up next time. Yeah. Great episode. Overall, my takeaway from this particular topic that we've covered here tonight, just a really incredible investigation. And I know I've said it throughout the episode. I won't be a broken record here, but they did have a lot initially. And you may have some police departments or federal agencies who would take that and go, hey, we got it. It's these two hit men.

That's who it is. That's who we're going to go arrest. It stops there. But they did the right thing. And you might say, oh, that's common sense, Derek. It's not always this way. And sometimes they just put together a half-assed investigation and go forward with what they can see on the surface, and they never really get to

the root of the issue. And they never get to really answer the question, who's behind this? So just an incredible job by everyone involved and using all of the science and technology available to them to help build out a case to really paint that picture for a potential jury down the road. Because there's a lot of things here where there could have been opportunities to raise a level of reasonable doubt that may have gotten Charles and Katie off, but they were dotting their I's and crossing their T's as far as the federal agents were concerned to make sure that they really buttoned everything up. Yeah, we got them on the surface.

We can see the connection between Katie and Charlie, but we want to make sure we get everyone who's part of this equation. So they put in the man hours, they put in the time, they use the proper resources, and they started to check boxes. And they really did. Ultimately, Donna did the right thing in spite of what Charlie wanted to do, which, by the way, setting your mom up to make that call. Damn. Savage.

Like, hey, let her make the transactional call. I'm not surprised with this family. Wendy done threw them all under the bus during her police interview. And by the way, we're going to get to that, too because I know a lot of you asking, we've talked about Charlie. We've talked about Donna. We've talked about Harvey to a certain degree. And I think we're on the same page on that one. And we still have to talk about Wendy. So there's still more here because I, a lot of you have been sticking with us and haven't gone and looked ahead to see what's kind of where the case is now, which we appreciate. But yeah, overall, great episode, really well laid out. I think anybody

listening or watching this episode can see how this all unfolded. And it's just one good example of when a police department and a multi-jurisdictional operation is done correctly, what you can find and how you can put it all together. Yeah. Because at this point, now they're going to get Siegfriedo, Luis and Katie, because they arrest them and talk to them a year before they do anything else. And they're going to get their side of the story. They're going to have these people implicate the Adelsons. That's right. Because now you're in prison. Yeah, you're in prison. You don't want to go down for this alone. How did this all come to be? Right. And they're

all going to tell pretty much the same story. And then Charlie's going to be like, no, man, I have no it. Right. So that's what's going to happen. And it's going to be very interesting once you hear exactly what happened and how this this all played out. Yeah, it's going to be very interesting. So we will get to that next episode. And yeah, we're going strong here. We're going strong. Can't wait to hear your guys's thoughts in the comments. If you're listening on audio and not watching on YouTube and you have things to say, we want to hear from you too. So go and subscribe to us on YouTube. Even if you've already heard the episode and you don't want to watch it all over again, just pop in the comments what you're thinking so far about this case, because I'm very interested to hear. Couldn't

agree more. We appreciate you guys being here. Everyone stay safe out there. We'll see you next week. Bye.