Crime Weekly - S3 Ep182: Dan Markel: What Did You Do Donna Sue? (Part 8)

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

In July of 2014, Florida State University professor Dan Markel dropped his two young sons off to preschool and made a quick stop at the gym before heading to his home in Tallahassee, Florida. Within minutes of arriving home, Dan Markel was shot execution style in his garage. In the aftermath, a lengthy investigation would follow that would include financial and phone records, surveillance cameras, wiretaps and a FBI sting operation, and what this investigation would uncover would shock everyone. In the case there have already been three criminal trials, four murder convictions and a fifth arrest, but new details and allegations are emerging every day, suggesting that there may still be more that we do not know about the shocking and tragic murder of 41-year-old Dan Markel. Use code CRIMEWEEKLY at www.CrimeCon.com for a discount on your CrimeCon 2024 Nashville tickets! Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. Talkspace.com/CrimeWeekly - Get $80 off your first month with Talkspace! 2. Zocdoc.com/CrimeWeekly - Download the Zocdoc app for FREE and book a top-rated doctor today! 3. HelixSleep.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code HELIXPARTNER20 to get 20% off ALL mattress orders AND two free pillows! 4. ZipRecruiter.com/CrimeWeekly - Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE to find qualified candidates today!

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek say, I was just telling Derek, I think this is one of the best episodes yet. I think this is one of the most interesting, bizarre, almost stranger than fiction, once again, hard to believe that this stuff even happened episodes. So we are going to dive in. But first, do you have anything you want to say, Derek? I know you want to talk about Criminal Coffee really quick

and the shirt you're wearing because you did during Crime Weekly News. So do you want to talk about that again? Oh in the shirt you're wearing because you did during Crime Weekly News. So do you want to talk about that again? Oh, yeah, I did. So the first thing I was going to say, it's interesting, and you mentioned this before. I remember a time where I said, we should cover this Markel series. And you're like, yeah, but is there going to be enough? No, I didn't say but.

I was just like, is there enough for like at least three parts, you know? And you're like, yeah, I think so. And then I got into it and I was like, wow, this is crazy. Yeah. And as far as Criminal Coffee, I mentioned on Crime Weekly News, if you haven't seen it, but Criminal Coffee Co, if you want to head over there, we have merch in stock. I'm wearing something right now. If you're listening on audio, we're still working on merging the two sites. It's close to getting there. That's already in the process. Actually, the products are being uploaded to the main site. So you'll be able to purchase coffee and merch together, which will obviously make the transaction process a lot smoother. So bear with us a couple more weeks. I don't think

it should take longer than that. And we'll be up and running and everything will be under one roof. But in the meantime, if you're just looking to buy merch, especially right now where it's getting a little colder, I know we got a snowstorm coming here in Rhode Island tomorrow. Comfortable sweatshirts or would you call them crewnecks? These are crewnecks. That's a crewneck. So we have a hoodie, which I have a hoodie. You guys, I actually was just wearing it in an Instagram story the other day.

It's like a, what would you call it? It's kind of like purple, but like maroon sort of. And that's a hoodie. It's my favorite hoodie to wear. It is the most comfortable. I also have the crew neck. I personally prefer the hoodie just the way it feels on me and I can sort of hide in it. But I have the crew neck as well, which is great. That's more like a dressing up sort of sweatshirt for me. But I love I love our merch. I love our crop tops. We have the crop

tops. I have it in blue. Once again, that maroon. We have crop tanks. Great stuff there in the Criminal Coffee store, merch store. So go check that out. That's it. We can get right into it. Two minutes in. So we got it all banged out. So nobody can cry and complain about it. They still will. They still will, for sure. Okay. So on November 6th, 2023, Charlie Adelson was found guilty of first-degree murder, conspiracy, and solicitation after an eight-day trial in the Leon Circuit Court. He was then transferred to the Leon County Detention Facility to wait for his sentencing, at which point he would then be sent to prison. Charlie's mother, Donna Sue Adelson, would be arrested just a week later on November 13th as she and her husband Harvey attempted to flee the country. In that short time period, Charlie spoke on the phone for roughly 35 hours over the course of 86 phone calls, and most of these calls were made to the same number,

his mother's cell phone. Donna Sue's arrest affidavit would state, quote, jail calls from after Charles Adelson's guilty verdict include multiple calls in which Donna Sue Adelson is telling Charlie Adelson that she is getting things in order, creating trusts and making sure her grandchildren are taken care of. Donna discusses plans for a suicide, but also discusses plans to flee to a non-extradition country. Donna Sue Adelson has considerable financial resources to accomplish this, end quote. Now, jail records show that Charlie and Donna Sue talked every single day from the date of his conviction to the date of her arrest. The Tallahassee Democrat reported, quote, from October 23rd through November 6th, Charlie Adelson made a total of 116 phone calls to his mom's phone,

totaling more than 2,343 minutes or just over 39 hours. Some 90% of the calls were made starting the night of his conviction and running through his mom's arrest. Five of the calls were flagged as three-way call detected. The records show. Under the jail's 2017 inmate guide, which is being revised, third-party calls are not allowed. The single longest call, which lasted nearly two hours third-party calls are not allowed. The single longest call, which lasted nearly two hours, occurred on November 7th, the day after the conviction of Charlie Adelson. The day of his mom's arrest, he spent nearly two and a half

hours on the phone. All jail calls are recorded and monitored, with the exception of conversations between inmates and their lawyers. And while the jail used to restrict phone calls to no longer than 15 minutes, it loosened those rules in the wake of the pandemic. Angela Green-Sherrata, spokeswoman for the Leanne County Sheriff's Office, said incarcerated individuals can make collect and prepaid calls using phones located in each of the pods or electronic tablets that each one is issued. She said the technology was implemented during the pandemic when the detention facility moved from on-site to video inmate visitation. Mutaki Akbar, a noted Tallahassee criminal defense lawyer, said inmates don't have to

wait to use the phone like they did before COVID. They essentially have unfettered access to phones and tablets, absent a lockdown, allowing them to make calls at will. He said, quote, as long as there's not a shutdown going on, they can just use the phone as long as they have money on it. And somebody like Adelson, who has an unlimited amount of money, that's pretty much like having a cell phone in his cell. All he needs is somebody to just put money on his phone in order to make whatever phone calls that he wants to make. Akbar was surprised, however, by the amount of time that Charlie Adelson spent on the phone, particularly in the week leading up to his mother's arrest. Akbar said, quote, five hours a day does seem long, end quote. Akbar said he advises his clients who are in jail to

stay in touch with family and friends via the phones and talk about general things, but definitely not the case. He said law enforcement and prosecutors in particular mine recorded phone calls for evidence they can use in court. He said he's seen defendants deny allegations in court only to admit them in jail calls. Quote, it happens all the time, Akbar said. We've seen it all. It could be that nail in the coffin a lot of times. And it could be the difference between we've got a tribal case and we've got to take this plea, end quote.

And that's pretty much what happened in this situation, at least with Donna Sue. Charlie was already in prison or, you know, already in the Leon County detention facility on his way to prison. But Donna, they were already looking into her. They were trying to figure out a way to arrest her. And the things she said during these phone calls, it really moved that along. Now, keep in mind, there's an automated recording that plays before each one of these calls, a recording that both Charlie and Donna Sue could hear each and every time. This is a prepaid collect call from Charlie, an incarcerated individual at the Leon County Jail. This call is not private. It will be recorded

and may be monitored. This call is not private. It will be recorded. It may be monitored. Yet Donna Sue still made incriminating and concerning statements while on the phone with her son. So let's go over some of these phone calls and see what this dynamic duo had to discuss for so long. But first, I want to talk about a call that Charlie had with someone else on November 6th, the night of his conviction. And we have not talked about this before because I typically like to leave out family, especially children, if they're not relevant to the case. But at the time of Charlie being arrested and tried for being a part of the murder of Dan Markell, he was a father. He had a child, a son, with a woman named Brianna Price. And this son was six years old when Charlie was,

you know, put on trial for murder. Now, apparently this is a weird connection, but from what I could tell, Brianna Price worked as a nanny for a boyfriend of Wendy Adelson's named Dave. And that's how Charlie met Brianna. And Charlie got Brianna pregnant while he was still technically dating June Umchinda, but the two of them were on a break. So as he's with June, he's sleeping with Brianna. He gets Brianna pregnant. And then obviously him and June are not going to work out.

And Charlie and Brianna sort of started, I guess, dating. And I actually found through public records that for a time, Brianna Price was listed as a resident at Charlie Adelson's Whale Harbor home. So they must have had some sort of relationship where he felt it was, you know, appropriate for her to live with him. In 2019, though, Brianna brought Charlie to court to establish paternity, and she was awarded $1,500 a month in child support. But from most reports, it seemed that Charlie was never super involved in the life of his son. Now, during their call, Brianna's upset.

She's crying. She says she cannot believe it. She can't believe this happened. And, you know, Charlie didn't deserve this. Brianna asked Charlie if he wanted to see her, if he wanted to see their son. And he says he does, but he can't stand the thought that it will have to happen with three

inches of glass between them. But Charlie does tell Brianna that he loves her and he loves their son, and he'll do everything in his power to continue taking care of them both. Whether it's through a glass or not, we'll be there. Okay? What's that? I said, whether it's through a glass or not, we'll be there. You want anything, you ask me for anything, I will have it.

Okay, you have it. You guys will like, you know, if I can pick up the phone and call my son and talk to him every day. Of course. You know, I'll always be here for you guys and come and visit, you know, like. I cannot believe it at all. I can't hear it. And I think most people probably in a weird for a second there feel bad. Not so much for Charlie, but more for the child.

Right. And the fact that they're going to grow up without a father and he's going to have to talk to his dad through a glass and all this stuff. But it's only for a second because we all know that more than likely the son, the child is going to be better off without him. That's what I was going to say. But, you know, for a second there, you know, just on the surface, you're like, oh, that's terrible, right? But it is what it is. But before we continue, let's take our first break.

We'll get right back into it. Okay, we're back. So the phone call continues and Brianna asked Charlie, you know, what do you want from me? Do you want photos? Do you want visits? Like, what can we do? And Charlie's like, listen, I'll tell you what I want. And I don't want photos right now. And Brianna tells Charlie that he has her and their son forever. And listen, I can't for the life of me figure this out, I can't for the life of me figure this out. I can't for the life of me figure this out. Because Charlie, to me, like I know everyone says he's handsome and like, oh, he's a handsome. He's got a nice body, smart, wealthy dentist, blah, blah.

I can't figure out how Charlie keeps pulling all of these stand by your man women. I can't. But Brianna is truly ride or die. I mean, you have us forever. I mean, there's, there's, I know it's not ideal to only have a phone conversation relationship with your son, but if that's what you have, then that's what you have, and I will never let you down with that, okay? And you will go well. And I will be there. You just let me know what you need, what you want in the moment, okay? I promise to do anything and everything to make you happy and proud and to be home and the best man that you can absolutely be.

To be honest, Shirley, we haven't been all settled because we haven't had you. So any life change, we're all getting used to it together, okay? Think about everything that's happening. You need to digest it and think about things. And, you know, just know that I'm here for anything that you need. Charlie, you are an amazing person. You always have been. You've been the most generous, the most supportive, a very, you know, nice person.

Charlie is the most generous, the most supportive, the most nicest person of them all. Who is she talking about? Well, in fairness to her, that might be the version she's seen. Doesn't mean it's accurate. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. But I mean, he's on trial for murder.

Did you not watch the trial, dude? I think, I think, especially when you have a child with someone, it's easy for you to take everything they're saying and believe it. It's one of those things where he's telling her his version. That's the only version of him that she's seen. And I also think there's some human element to it where you don't want to believe that the person you're in love with is capable of something like that. And for the, I think she's maybe looking at it. In love, gross, with Charlie Adelson. I think, I think she's also looking at it like now she has to raise this child on her own.

She thought that she was going to have this life together with this man and like everything is turned upside down for her. And she even says it in the first, the first recording, the first clip, I clip. I can't believe this is happening. I guess. I mean, I just, I don't understand it. I don't understand it because I feel like he's so oily and so sketchy in general. But I will say in fairness to her, when he was testifying during the trial, he is a believable liar. He is absolutely a believable liar. And I think that's because he forces himself to believe these things in his own brain. And you'll hear him in these calls talking to Brianna, talking to his mother, Donna Sue, and his father, Harvey. And I had to listen to hours and hours and hours

of these phone calls. And he repeats himself. He keeps saying the same thing. For instance, Charlie tells Brianna the trial was a sham. And he says this. The same things he says to her, he says to his mother. And he'll repeat this. I mean, there's days after days of phone calls where he just keeps going over this. Like, this absolutely had to be a sham. I can't believe this happened. Like, what is going on? There's no way that these people found me guilty. As if he genuinely believes he's not guilty. And so Charlie tells Brianna, quote, I knew it was a sham. The amount of press that this has gotten,

the amount of publicity that this has gotten, the amount of coverage in this town that this has gotten. I'm public enemy number one up here. They didn't even review the evidence. The closing that the prosecutor did, she put up so much fucking bullshit things, things that aren't true, things that were cut and pasted,

like the Cliff Notes versions that made it all seem perfect for the jury. She dumped it down to a third grade level and was like, this is what happened. When I saw her closing, I was like, this is a joke, end quote. And Charlie hates Georgia Kappelman, the prosecutor, hates her. I mean, we saw that evidenced during the trial, the way that Georgia and Charlie went back and forth. And I'm sure that there's no love lost on george's part towards charlie but he does not like her at all and it's funny because he makes it seem like she's this manipulative person and it almost feels like projection because of how manipulative that he is and so he sees this nefarious tendency

to be manipulative in others and charlie is absolutely flabbergasted that the trial did not go his way. And the mother of his son, Brianna, she commiserates with Charlie about how horrible Georgia Kappelman is and how the prosecutor did him wrong. me personally like you're arrogant she's had her name in her mouth for nine years now yeah for nine years and i hope she goes to sleep very happy tonight because she's a disgusting human being that i hate so much that took away the father's making. Yeah, I think that kind of like basically puts a nail in the whole idea of what I was saying as far as Brianna is definitely clouded by her own personal opinions on Charlie. And anybody who's trying to take Charlie away from her and her son, they're the villain. They're the bad guy.

And I'll tell you, I've experienced this a lot in my career. There's been many instances where, and I've said this before about different cases, but there'll be situations that I have as a detective or even as a patrolman where I walk into a domestic dispute and the woman's got bruises and cuts and slashes and broken ribs. And I arrest the guy, you know, obviously primary aggressor. This thing goes to trial and the woman's in the courtroom staring at me like I'm the bad guy, like I'm the one who struck her. And in some cases they explain why they're so upset with me. And it's because, Hey, that's the father of my children. You know, that's just how they look at it. Even though they know for a fact that this person did what they were arrested

for and what they're charged with. They're still looking at me as the common enemy amongst them and their husband, or in this case, their offender. But they can't see that. They got the blinders on and they have to come up with a person that they can direct their anger towards other than the person who's actually responsible for being in prison. It's crazy, but I don't know. The psychological element to it, I can't explain it. So that's a different situation to me. In the form or in the situation of abuse, there is like a brainwashing tactic that happens. There's a manipulation, there's a push-pull energy, and it's a very toxic cycle. In this situation, for me, it's giving Delulu, Bonnie, and Clyde vibes. Georgia Kappelman did not take away the father of your

child, Brianna. Charlie did that just fine all by himself. And there is a, I don't know what I would refer to it as, but there are situations where women know that the men they're with are bad, but because they want to, for some reason, stay with that man. It's almost as if they want to be like, oh, yeah, everybody else has done you wrong, but I won't. So they basically enable these men to be toxic and bad. It's like, I'm not like other girls. I'm not like your crazy ex. Anybody who comes after you, I'm going to hate them just ferociously because it's going to make you feel like I'm the one who's got your back and I'm the only one who's ever going to be here for you. It's a weird, almost manipulation tactic of like,

I know what you're saying is toxic and I know it's probably not true, but I'm going to make you feel that it is because I want to be the one at the end of the day that you choose. It's a pick-me-girl thing, honestly, but whatever. Just hearing her be like, I hate Georgia Kappelman. What, for doing her job? For doing her job? What do you hate her for? Once again, no one took Charlie away from you besides Charlie. And at the end of the day, Charlie wouldn't be hanging around with Brianna

for life anyways. He's not the marrying white picket fence type of guy. So what did you expect? This was always going to be temporary. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I think the Bonnie and Clyde element to it where it's like, it's us against the world. Yeah. We're going to go down together, man. Yeah. No, you're not wrong. You're definitely not wrong. And for most of us, it's not going to make sense, but it shouldn't because all Georgia Kaplan was doing was her job and she was a fact finder and they had built a case. And as we have seen through these last seven parts, which is why it's so important to kind of go deep into these, you understand the context of where this hatred is coming from because you have personally got the chance to listen or watch the conversations. Yeah. Yeah. The interactions between Charles Adelson and and Georgia Kappelman. And it's you can cut the tension with a knife. There was definitely an element of hatred. Who's smarter? Who's smarter here? How's this going to work out? And Georgia was fighting battles with everybody. Wendy, Charlie. I mean, she was it was the battle of the egos. So it's it's interesting to hear the other perspective of it and how after hearing all of those facts surrounding this case, Brianna can still sit there and think that Georgia Kappelman is the enemy here and not Charlie for making some stupid decision that now affects her and her child for the rest of their lives. So psychologically, in my opinion, I know people, I know men like Charlie, and he has no respect for women in general.

So somebody like Georgia Kappelman, who is going head to head with him, who's challenging him, who isn't caving into him, he's going to have resentment and animosity towards her. He picks women like Junam Chinda and Brianna here and even Katie, right? Katie Magduanua that are going to not challenge him. They're not going to question him. They're going to go with his flow. They're going to support him. They're going to be the woman waiting at home. You know, it reminds me like a mob wife thing. You know, they all knew that their husbands were out there killing everybody and having girlfriends and flaunting their girlfriends around town, but they stayed at home and cooked and took care of the kids and welcomed their husbands home with a glass of wine and a lasagna.

That's the type of woman that Charlie likes, does not respect. He doesn't respect any women, but he likes the women who are just going to give in to him and go along with him and not question him and not challenge him. So when Georgia Kaepernick standing up there, not only questioning and challenging him, but doing it publicly and in a way where he felt like, yo, why are you coming at me like this in front of all these people? That's why he reacted so poorly and so sassily to Georgia Kaepernick. And that's why he hates her so very much, because she's not a woman who's just going to be like, yeah, you do whatever you need to do, Charlie. I'm here for you no matter what. But let's take our break and we'll be right back. OK, so during a call with Donna Sue and Harvey that happened at 7.50 a.m. on the morning

of November 7th, 2023, Charlie complains about his conditions in jail. So at first he's kind of kept in isolation. They think he's going to hurt himself. They think that he's, you know, not mentally well. He most likely behaved in a way that made them believe this. And they put him in this room that has what he kept calling mirrored glass. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with this, but he kept saying, I can't take this. Like they don't turn the lights off at night. I'm in a room where they can see me, but I can't see them. And all I can see is myself because it's a mirror and they're always watching me. And I'm alone and I only get out of here one hour a day and I don't go outside.

And this is just horrible. Now, are you familiar with these um monitoring rooms where they can be watched through two-way glass like two-way mirrors yeah i mean yeah they exist everywhere interrogation rooms but are they in prisons and in in this or in detention facilities where they would just watch you all night and that's why they don't turn the lights off at night because they're afraid you're gonna hurt yourself i guess or do something or they just need to always be watching you and he was there for you know longer than he wanted to be basically you're not entitled to to privacy in a prison so yeah that's just the way that was the way the cookie crumbles you're not entitled

to privacy on prison calls either i wonder if uh they knew that but so he's he's talking he's complaining he's real upset his voice he's he you can tell he's been, he's complaining. He's real upset. His voice, you can tell he's been crying. He's just completely beside himself. And his mother, Donna Sue, hearing her little baby boy so upset and so sad, she can't take it, man. And she's very clearly upset about the way that things have played out. I've got to take care of things, Charlie. We've got to take care of things. It's like I'm dead. I mean, I hate to tell you this, but it ain't a whole lot different. Oh, fuck.

I know. Please, I know, please, I know. Oh, fuck. I listen to everybody. You guys know I see it. No, I know. You have no fucking idea. That's all I'm going to say.

Charlie, I know, I know, I know. I know, I love you. I love you. Maybe something will happen. Maybe this trial will take place and get a different ending. Let's hope for that. Let's just see. Let's just see, okay? It's not over.

It's not over. Please. We'll try everything. We'll try everything. No, I got you. If you couldn't hear, because obviously the audio of Donna and Harvey Adelson is clearer than Charlie's audio. But if you couldn't hear what Charlie said, he said, quote, it's like I'm dead. I hate to tell you it ain't much different.

End quote. So and he says, fuck, you know, I listen to everybody. And to elaborate on this, he's because he does elaborate on the phone call. He's like, I took all this advice and everybody told me it was going to be fine and I should have gone with my gut. Now, I'm not sure what Charlie believes he would have done differently, either during the investigation or during the trial, but he keeps saying that he would have done things differently. So what do you think about this clip with Charlie and Donna and Harvey? It's a lot different when you get caught, right? This isn't what you planned for.

You're not so smug now. You know, I know people down South. I can make people disappear. I can do all these things. Big, tough guy. And then you think you're smarter than the police and you think you can get away with it. You think you've covered all your bases. You've dotted all your I's, crossed all your T's. There's no way you're getting caught this is the perfect crime your money can solve anything you don't take no for an answer dan markel thinks he's gonna have the last word we'll show him well guess what now you're crying to your mommy on the phone from from a detention center because the judicial system in some ways not it's not perfect but always it doesn't care how much money you have in some cases not perfect, but it doesn't care how much money you have in some cases, not all cases. Or it doesn't care how street smart and dangerous you think you are.

Yeah. You ain't so bad in prison with real criminals, real bad guys. Yeah. He's miserable. And I mean, there was times I couldn't possibly, hours and hours of phone calls. He's just sobbing on the phone. And I have to say, there's a human element in me that's like, oh, this is kind of hard to listen to. But at the same time, it's Charlie Adelson, and he had it coming. So they get off the phone, but then another call takes place at 8.44 a.m. Initially, Charlie seems a bit broken, almost as if he's realizing how hard the consequences of one's own actions can hit. He's talking like in this way. He's like, I had a great life.

I had everything. You know, I had money and I worked so hard. Nothing was ever handed to me. And I built this amazing world. And now I have nothing. He couldn't believe how everything could change and fall apart so quickly. But then he and Donna Sue begin mocking Georgia Kappelman and the jury. Charlie calls Kappelman the Tallahassee hometown girl.

And Donna Sue pipes up that she noticed how Georgia Kappelman laid on her southern accent thick to play to the jury, to play to these stupid rednecks on the jury. The mother and son even joke about TV being a code word and how stupid a person must be to believe that it was actually a code. I think she, like, hoping Wendy can make it seem like I'm a fool. You know, like, oh, look, even his own sister said this. You know, like, take anything out of context. Yeah. And it's like... Take anything out of context.

You can make it sound ridiculous. That's what they did. Yeah. And it's like... If you take anything out of context, you can make it sound ridiculous. That's what they did. Yeah. Either they had a bunch of stupid jurors, or they just...these people knew what they were going to do before they walked in. Well, and they also got riled up by the whole town's role that they had. They had it all...it all...it was like a...it was like she made a TV production. Oh wait, I said TV again.

Whoops, don't say that. It's a code word. I just said TV. Don't say that. Yeah, it's a code word. Anyone who looked at that knew better. Anyone. Not these people. But not when you dump it down like this. You're like, it's worse than this every time. It's got to be related.

Yeah. What else could they be talking? What else? What else? Like, wow. Anyone who saw LaCoste testify knew he was lying. He was twitching. He was turning red.

He was talking beyond any question that was asked. The guy's a liar. A liar. Everybody knows that. But when she sums it up, in summary, it wasn't him pacifying. It was her putting the package together for him. And the package was Georgia Kaplan's presentation 101. The audacity of these people. Okay, the audacity to even bring up this TV cohort and be like, what could they possibly have been talking about? Because it's like, we already went through this.

What could you possibly have been talking about? Why did you use TV as a code word? And now you're like mocking it as in like, oh, how stupid could people be to think this was a code word? What a bunch of idiots. And it's not, you know, Georgia Kaplan just put on this whole like show for everyone and nobody actually listened to the evidence. But it's like the jury sat through the entire trial. The jury did not just sit through Georgia Kaplan's opening statements and closing statements. They sat through the entire trial. They listened to

the evidence. They heard it. They took time out of their lives to do that, that they didn't probably want to do. And then they sat in a freaking room and argued over the conviction. Well, they didn't actually argue because every single one of them came back with the same decision. There wasn't a hung jury. Nobody was sitting here like, oh, we got to convince people to jump on board. Every single member of that jury said guilty for Charlie. And he mentions this in the phone calls too. He's like, how? How could all 11 people say this? Like, we didn't even get one? One to believe me?

And they are literally talking on these phone calls as if they're innocent. But they know that they're not. They are just mad that people didn't buy it. So they think that people are stupid for seeing through their lies. And this is the sign of a narcissist. They get mad when you don't believe their lies. And I think that this is an entire family of narcissists, with the exception possibly of Harvey, who just doesn't really know what the hell's going on.

And when he does, he kind of, I think, convinces himself that it's not. Even when Donna Sue gets arrested, Harvey is telling the police, and we're going to see a clip of it later, but he's like, you've made a mistake and Donna Sue gets arrested, Harvey is telling the police and we're going to see a clip of it later. But he's like, you've made a mistake and you've made a this is the second time you've made a mistake now referring to Charlie and then Donna being arrested. And it's like Harvey, dude, like just you've got to give up, man. You've got to cut these people loose at this point because Donna Sue, Charlie and Wendy are all flaming narcissists, like horribly. Well, I definitely think Harvey, at least it sounds like it on the surface, was probably not involved in the initial planning of this

and how much they told him before he got to hear it with his own ears at trial. That remains to be seen. Like, what was he actually, how much was he actually in on this by the time it got to the point? Like, what conversation happened behind closed doors with Donna and with Harvey? Because I will tell you this, we all assume that once the dominoes started falling, that Donna Sue probably had a conversation

with her husband about everything that happened. It just disclosed all the details of what they actually did because that's her husband. Why wouldn't she? But just think about this for a second. This is the same woman who just got tricked by the FBI in the bumps thing. So is it possible that she was nervous to even say something in her own home for the fear of it being bugged or whatever could be happening? So how much did she really tell him? Yeah, but did Harvey watch the trial? That's exactly what I'm saying. So, so how much did she know? How much did he know going into the trial? Then after the trial, this goes back to Brianna where he's watching his son battle with this, this prosecutor,

and he's going into it with a skewed judgment of my poor son is going up against this big, bad prosecutor who's just trying to convict my son on something he didn't do. If he's going into it with that perception, that feeling, he's going to be skewed in how he perceives. We watched it objectively and we think Charlie sounds like an idiot, right? And we think that Wendy sounds like a narcissistic asshole as she's going back and forth, but that's not my daughter that's not my son so it's different for them than it would be for us come on he's a smart intelligent man he's like 80 years old dude like you're telling me he didn't watch that trial and be like huh i see and then

donald's like we gotta go to vietnam and he's like yep that's exactly what innocent people do like and then he's on the phone with charlie prison. He's like, we love you, Charlie. We're going to get you out. We're going to get you out, Charlie. Stephanie, you would be doing the exact same thing if it was your son or daughter. I don't know. I don't know. A hundred percent, you would have zero doubt in my mind.

I don't know if I would. I would say I love you. Yeah. But I'd be like. You wouldn't be on the phone calling the prosecutor an asshole. You're lying. I don't. You're lying.

I don't know. I don't know. If I was Harvey, I don't think harvey did that donna did that but she's involved he didn't he did exactly what you're saying you would do which is like we're gonna get you out i can't believe this happened like i don't know it's like to me i'd be like i love you but you know i wish you had consulted with me because we could have figured something else out. And you decided you and your mother decided you knew best. So like not going to say that on a recording. True. I mean, they said a lot of things on the recording that we're going to play that they shouldn't have said.

But yeah, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. OK, so Donna Sue and Charlie, they're still on the phone and they're discussing the jury and they're talking about how the people chosen to sit friends are smart, you know, smart, wealthy, influential people. And she says, quote, this is from intelligent people. That's my problem, end quote. And then Charlie responded, quote, that's the catch. That's a jury of my peers. And he means the smart, intelligent people that Donna knows. And he continues and says, the jury of my peers was not there, end quote. Charlie then went through each juror claiming that they were the perfect group to be sympathetic to the prosecution's case, but they would resent

someone like him, someone smart, wealthy, and successful. He said, quote, there was five black women on the jury, one black guy that was a sergeant, one kind of redneck looking a bit, then three guys that looked like they were inbred, that they were like out of shape, 30 years old, look like they've never had a girl in their life, end quote. Charlie thinks that being able to have sex with women makes you a reliable person to sit on a jury, apparently. And he just basically talks down about every single one of them because he's mad that they didn't buy their story. Now, I want to go back to November 6th. This was the day that Charlie was found guilty when he and Donna Sue had an interesting phone call during which she

expressed her frustration with Charlie's sister, Wendy. Now, law enforcement claims it was the statements Donna Sue made during this call that were responsible for triggering her arrest because not only does she talk about Wendy, but she says some other things that suggests she's getting ready to do something because she fears that she's the next one to be in cuffs. She's getting ready to do something. Sometimes she talks about maybe ending her life. Sometimes she talks about fleeing the country. But she's saying this on the call. But here's the odd thing. Charlie wasn't even on the phone when Donna Sue said these things. They had been talking for about 25 minutes when somehow Charlie got dropped from the call. But the call and the recording of the call continued as Donna Sue is talking to somebody in the background, which we believe to

be her husband, Harvey. And she's saying, oh, we got disconnected again. This always happens. I'm sure Charlie will be back. And then she proceeds to stay on the phone and chatted up with Harvey as if Charlie not being on the phone meant that she was no longer being listened to or recorded. So first, let's talk about what Donna Sue said about Wendy. And this is very interesting because I know that Derek, you and I have gone back and forth like, was Wendy involved? How involved was she? How much does she know? And I've tried to not continue bringing her up in each episode in the way or in the context of, like, maybe she was more involved than we think. But the case itself won't let me do that. So this is coming from her own mother. Apparently, Donna Sue was very put out because Wendy had not made any effort to call

and check up on her parents or her brother in the wake of his trial. And it kind of looked like Wendy had been distancing herself for months because Donna Sue says something to Harvey like, you know, we've been living here for years and she's never even visited. We've been living here for a few years. She hasn't visited. She doesn't call. She doesn't check up on us. She's not seeing how we're doing. I can't believe this. So Donna Sue, because she doesn't like the way that Wendy's behaving, because she doesn't like the distance that Wendy's putting between herself and her family, she starts texting

Wendy to try and make her feel bad and guilty for abandoning her family in their time of need. And it does seem like Donna Sue feels agitated that she was unable to guilt her daughter into doing what she wanted. So I wrote this last night. We know you never ask anything about your brother. This is eight o'clock last night, but we just got off the phone with him. And the first thing he asked was, how's Wendy holding up? I didn't have the heart to tell him that you never called us or asked about him. I just said, we weren't up to phone calls right now. Everyone looks to protect you. I bet you've got a lot to

think about. But then she didn't answer. But then I got another call from Charlie. And I said, just got off the phone with Charlie. He's worried about you. He wants to know why we didn't speak. I told him a lie. I said, we're only speaking with you and Dan right now. I couldn't bear to tell him the truth. Your sister never even called us is the truth. So she says this morning, I thought she'd be racing over here last night. Dear mom, I know you are upset by the verdict, but the anger directed at me is not justified.

I don't know how much anger we don't. I'm not responsible in any way for Charlie's situation. I am not guilty because I did not do anything wrong and I was not involved in any way with Danny's death. When I was interviewed by the police and testified in court, I told the truth as I was required to do. I cannot control how the prosecutor used my statement for Charlie's trial. Again, I didn't say that. Also, as you know, I do know, my lawyer has advised me not to talk to my family or anyone else about this case, not about the case, which is true. We've never done it. I followed his advice despite your disagreements with the.

Please do not text me about this case anymore. Not about the case, is it? Not what I said. About her brother, that he wants, how are you, Wendy? How's my sister holding up? Mm-hmm. Sure. If you have anything further to say about the case, please go through our lawyers. Right now, I have to be singularly focused on taking care of the boys during this difficult time.

So I wrote back, okay, we have no desire to speak with you about the case. I guess Dad and I are just shocked that you didn't think of coming to see us or even calling us. We are your parents. We are and have always been there for you and the boys. None of what we wrote matters about the case. That's over. I just want you to know how many times Charlie is asking about you. Not only do you not ask about us, but not one question about Charlie, right? We will need to give you some information shortly, and we need some business assistance. Please let us know if you can be of any help.

I have a safe here. I want to propose. We're going to be gone. I want her to have all this information. I have the cemetery property. I want her to see all that. I want her to have all these papers and the wills. I want her to see all this.

So please let us know if you can be of any help. The other thing is the visa, which she would know about. No, I said we need some business assistance. Please let us know if you can be of any help. The other thing is the visa, which she would know about the visa. No, I said we need some business assistance. Please let us know. If not, we'll try to find someone who can help us. This needs an immediate reply so I can start asking other people to help. And then she always gets nervous if we want to talk to her. So I wrote, don't get nervous.

Again, nothing, capital letters, nothing about the case. Just would like to show you some business stuff and personal things. If you can't do it, we must find someone who can. I hope you understand that it has nothing to do with the case. There is no more case. Every time she says, can you do this, can you come here, can you do this, everything, how many times do we have plans? I really can't.

I have to cancel. Wendy needs us for this. Wendy needs us to babysit. So we've been really good nannies, and I guess our job is up, because now the boys are older, they can go out with friends, they can do things on their own, so she doesn't need grandma and grandpa. Okay, pretty hurtful. I have one son that I don't speak with. I have one son who loves being dead.

And my daughter, whom I love, is doing this. I don't speak with. I have one son whose husband is dead. And my daughter, whom I love, is doing this. I don't get it. I don't get it. I said to Harvey, I swear to God, our family was cursed. It was totally cursed. And I don't have to take care of it anymore. So. All right.

So there's a lot to talk about, about this phone call, actually. There's a lot going on here. And I almost felt bad for Donna Sue when I was listening to this, almost. And I think that's the point. This gives a very clear look into the Adelson family dynamics. Donna Sue is dramatic AF. She's got one son she doesn't speak to. That's your fault. One son who's close to being dead. No, he's not. And then Wendy does this. What did you expect her to do? Let's say Wendy had no knowledge of this. Let's say Wendy did not know what you guys were doing. And then she watched the trial and saw the evidence. And as an intelligent person and a lawyer was like, oh, damn, my family did this.

Why would she talk to you? Why would she want to be close to you? And why would she be spending all this time with you and calling in to check up on you guys and to check up on Charlie when you put yourselves in the stupid position and you stole the father of her children from her children and from her? So this is this is stupid the way that the Donna Sue is going about this. And then when she says she sent Wendy this text message the night before, you know, this very guilt tripping text message like, I can't believe your brother's asking about this. And then when she says she sent Wendy this text message the night before, you know, this very guilt tripping text message, like, I can't believe your brother's asking about you. And he's in prison right now. And all he cares to worry about is, are you doing OK? And you're not even asking about him. And she says to the person she's talking to, I expected Wendy to

race over here last night. This is what Donna's used to. She's used to throwing out these little like guilt trips and then having her children respond to come in and soothe her, to comfort her, to give her what she wants. And when Wendy didn't do that, she was like, what? I expected her to race over here last night. How dare she not? But what was interesting is she said in the text message to Wendy, everyone looks to protect you. Seems like you've got a lot to think about. Everyone looks to protect you.

What could she be referring to? To me, she's indicating like we did this for you. And yet, you know, this is what she's saying, right? Yeah. I mean, overall, I think there's a couple of things that I take away from this conversation. One being the obvious that she's trying to set up some things business wise, personal wise, financially before she either kills herself or takes off. It sounds like she's getting ready to leave. I also think and you kind of you said you mentioned this before the recording started. In my experience, when you have someone where there's a group of individuals who are

equally involved with a crime, if we catch two out of three of them and then we're listening to a wire, the person who hasn't been caught yet but is involved will placate that person a little bit more. It's a balancing act, right? They're trying not to be connected to it, but they're also trying not to piss off the person who could implicate them. Wendy is not doing that. She's very cold to her mom. That statement more than likely was written by her lawyer and then forwarded to her and she texted to her mom. So at this point, I think it's very clear that if Wendy had been directly involved, she would be entertaining her mother a little bit more because of the idea that Donna could simply go in and be like, listen,

Wendy was in on this. We all sat down. We talked about it. This happened. So I think Wendy at this point genuinely knew that they were involved, did her best at trial to help Charlie without hurting herself. But I don't think she was directly involved. Oh, I see it completely differently. I don't think that Wendy did anything, not during her police interview and not during the trial to help her brother. Nothing. I think that everything she did made her brother and the situation look worse. And there's a lot. We just spent three parts talking about how every time the prosecutor asked her a question that could implicate her brother more, she played dumb or. And then we said that it just made Charlie's case look worse

because the jury was like, wait, why can't you just answer this directly? We literally had that discussion, and I just put it up on Instagram, where you said we both agreed, like, yeah, Wendy testifying made everything worse for Charlie. But you have to, relative to what? Because she's unlikable, like unlikable. Oh, no, for sure, but relative to what? She's sitting up there knowing that her brother did this.

They've had conversations behind closed doors where we don't even probably know the half of it, where if she was up there and forthright and honest, she would have buried them. But again, I think Wendy's very unlikable. I'm not disagreeing with that. But what's the tradeoff? What's the alternative in that situation? Deflect and come off like an asshole or just agree with the prosecutor because she's right? What she's saying, the prosecutor was making perfect sense. Wendy was trying to play attorney by saying a lot while also saying very little. I think Wendy was concerned with not

implicating herself. Of course. She didn't give a shit about her brother and her entire family saw that because they know her. And I think she also knows that Donna Sue, no matter what Wendy does, is never going to go to the police or anybody and say, well, you know what? Wendy knew about this because that would mean that Donna Sue would then have to admit her guilt. We were talking during Crime Weekly News about four year old Jessica Gutierrez's killer and how we hoped that he would reveal the location of her body. But in order to do that, he would have to admit his guilt. And some people just will never do that. Donna Sue Adelson is one of these people, and Charlie Adelson are one of these people, that will never admit to their

guilt. It doesn't matter if they sit in prison for the rest of their lives. They will cry about how they're innocent and wrongly accused and wrongly convicted for the rest of their lives, they will cry about how they're innocent and wrongly accused and wrongly convicted for the rest of their lives until they die. So for Donna Sue to go to the police or the prosecution and say Wendy knew about this, she'd have to be admitting her own guilt. And then she would be taking the only parent that her grandchildren have away from her grandsons who are her sunshines. So why would Donna do that? And Wendy knows very well that she never will. And I think that Donna Sue saying everyone protects you. It looks like you have things to think about. How did they try

to protect her other than hiring somebody to kill Dan Markell? You say other than other than hiring someone to kill the guy? Other than that, other than that thing, other than that, like what would they do to protect her? So in saying everyone looks to protect you, it is in a way admitting that Donna Sue and Charlie did what they did to protect Wendy. And it's also admitting that Wendy knew about it. So I disagree. Also admits that she knew about it. I agree with the first part.

But where do you get the she this is also they could have decided to protect her without her asking for protection. So if, if, if my mother has said that to me, everyone looks to protect you and I was Wendy, my response would be like, protect me. How, how, how are you looking to protect me? What have you done to protect me? every single day about how the big bad Dan Markell and his family were keeping her from taking the kids to South Florida and that Dan Markell refused money and was making her life difficult. And when the divorce was ugly and she's sitting there telling them how horrible he is and how poorly he treats her all the time. So they took it upon themselves to help her. That's how I would see it. So here's the thing. I also think the way Wendy responded to her mother, I completely agree with you that this statement was either run by her lawyer or written by her lawyer. 100%. But the way that Wendy responds and she's like, I am not

responsible for the position Charlie's in. I am not guilty. I did not do anything. I did not have anything to do with what happened to Danny. She's saying this and her mother, even while she's reading the text out loud, she's like, I never said that again. I didn't say that. So Wendy's responding in a way where she's thinking these texts are going to. There's a possibility that these texts are going to eventually be seen by law enforcement or the prosecution. And so she's expressing, I am not guilty. I did not do this.

I had nothing to do with this. I'm not responsible for Charlie's situation when that was not even the conversation or the topic that Donna had brought up. So Wendy is in defense of herself when she wasn't even accused of doing anything in this phone conversation. And that seems like a tactical move. Yeah, I will save it for the end.

We can, we'll, we'll let some, I think we have one the end. We can we'll we'll let's I think we have one more break. We'll take our last break. Then we'll finish out this episode. And at the end, we can talk about our final thoughts on this one because we could do it right now. But we still have a little bit of the episode to go. OK, we're back. So Donna Sue says that Wendy claimed she was told by her lawyer that she wasn't supposed to talk to her parents or anyone about the case. But Donna Sue to come over here and deal with some business things and help us out with these things and just basically know where everything is because Donna thinks that she's next. She's the next person to be arrested or she's going to take her own life or something, but she's not going to be around to show Wendy these things. Now,

personally, I think that that was just a guise. I think that Donna Sue just wanted the attention from Wendy and wanted almost like the gratitude from Wendy. Like we did this for you. And how dare you now like abandon us? She just wanted to know that Wendy appreciated what she did because everything with Donna Sue is very transactional. Oh, we babysat her kids and we were great nannies, but now she doesn't need us anymore. I see how it is. Like, how could this possibly happen? It's all transactional. I did this for you. So now you have to do stuff for me. And Wendy's not playing along. And so I think Donna Sue is like, well, it's not even like that I need her to come over here and just like, you know, pat me on the head and take care of me. But I have important business matters to talk about with her. So I think that that whole conversation is showing this break, not only between Donna Sue and Wendy, but Wendy and her entire family. Wendy's putting space between all of the Adelsons. She wants to just really not be connected to it or be in their sphere at all, because I think Wendy knows that her mother's about to be arrested. Now, here are the statements that really put Donna Sue

Adelson between a rock and a hard place. First, she speaks to Harvey about how she's considering ending her life. In fact, she suggests that they do it together. Donna Sue says she can't go to prison. She says she's seen what being behind bars for a year and a half has done to Charlie, and she's not strong enough to handle it. I can't. I can't push it. I'm not that strong. And I also know how key is a year and a half. and she's not strong enough to handle it. not unhappy. And I wasn't willing to just say goodbye. It doesn't change. We bought our cemetery property a couple months ago. We're good. I'm good. Donna Sue said, quote, Am I suicidal?

No. Do I want to go to sleep and not see my son? I do. Perfectly honest. I do. We could do it together. Leave a note. They'll know when they come to get us and we'll do it together. End quote. So she's basically suggesting like a Romeo and Juliet suicide thing with her and Harvey. Like even though, you know, we believe that he probably was not a part of this plot and he's just been caught up in this. And she's like, let's just we had a good life. We had a good marriage.

We traveled. We were happy. Let's just end it. You know, let's go out on a high note. After that, Donna Sue begins going over their options for getting out of the country to a place that does not have extradition to the United States. Now, after the verdict, Donna Adelson knew the heat was on. She was talking to Charlie's lawyer, Dan Rauchbaum, about it and that she was living on borrowed time. She said it was worth the risk to try to get out of the country.

We're going to make a decision at some point. So after speaking to Dan this morning and knowing what they're thinking up there, I don't know if we'll make it out in time. I really don't. But Dan said, you might. Or you might do all of this, get to the airport, and this to the airport. And that could happen. It could happen. I don't know, but it's worth a try.

Donna Sue said, quote, We've been looking it up over and over because things change. If there's extradition from Vietnam because we've looked at all the places. I mean, I could go to Korea and China, but there's no extradition. Looking for places where there's no extradition. End quote. Donna and Harvey also discuss asking Wendy for help with getting visas. And Harvey asks, will Wendy tell?

And Donna says, well, we'll just have to let her know that we're asking her these questions in her capacity as a lawyer so she can't break privilege. I don't really know if it works like that, if you're related to the person. I don't really know if it works like that, but it might. But either way, they're literally talking about getting out of the country, getting visas, going to a place with no extradition to the United States, and they're talking about enlisting Wendy to help with that. On November 7th, 2023, Donna and Harvey Adelson booked one-way flights to Vietnam with a stop in Dubai, leaving from Miami International Airport on November 13th at 8.10 p.m. Needless to say, Donna Sue and Harvey never made it onto that plane because the FBI were already in position at the airport to take Donna into custody, placing her under arrest for the murder of her son-in-law, Dan Markell. I don't want to give it to you. Why do I have to give this to you?

Why do I have to give it to you? What is this? What is this? She's under arrest. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. I have to go.

I have to go. I have to go. I have to go. Take the bags. Yeah. The way outside. Okay. My husband's almost 80 years old. He can't go with me. Please, can I help? No, you can't.

Oh, don't do this. Please. Please. Oh. Someone's got to help him get home. This is terrible. You can't do this. This is terrible. Go ahead.

Go ahead. Okay, we do. Please. You don't have to have the can. Oh, sorry. That doesn't matter. Can I call my attorney? Where am I going? Everyone said a day coming. You're making mistakes here donna is sitting there and basically as soon as they approach her they try to take her cell phone from her and she yanks it out of their hands and she's like no you can't have this and they're like what are you talking about do you understand you like, no, you can't have this. And they're like,

what are you talking about? Do you understand you're under arrest? You don't call the shots here, lady. Give us your phone. It's evidence. He says to her, it's evidence. They make her take off all her jewelry right there. Very demeaning for her, I'm sure. And she's making a big deal, like, no, can't my husband come with me? He's 80 years old. How's he going to get home by himself? Like, you can't do this. Poor Harvey. And she's like, Harvey, just go home and try to relax, okay? And she's making this big dramatic deal out of Harvey getting home alone. Like, he's not a grown-ass man who can't get an Uber. But anyways, she gets arrested. She doesn't want them to have her phone. It's very interesting. Why doesn't she want them to have her phone? I'm sure that law enforcement is going to find some very interesting things on there. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, and it's a fall from grace. This is, again, people who are not used to hearing no, very successful, wealthy, whatever they want, they get. The world is kind of, you know, their little playground. And in that moment, you're stripped down to your basic necessities and you lose all freedom other than the right to call an attorney. So it's probably, like you said, very demeaning, very demoralizing to have to take off your drool

in a public place where a year ago, two years ago, you were traveling probably the world, getting to experience all these things and maybe looking down on others. And now here you are, you're the thing that everyone's looking at and looking down on. Yeah. And I think it's a testament to the continued delusion of the Adelsons because they purchased these plane tickets on November 7th, the day after Charlie was found to be guilty of these crimes. November 7th. The plane didn't leave till November 13th. Did Donna really think she wasn't being looked at? Did Donna really think that the police weren't keeping an eye to see on whether she was making travel plans with one way tickets to suspicious places that didn't have extradition to the United States? Like the least you could

have done is book a round trip ticket to make it look like you planned on coming back. But because she's so just thinks she's so superior and so much smarter than everyone else, she does this very suspicious thing a week before she even takes the flight, you know? And it's just like, did you not, you thought you could be arrested, but did you not think that they were watching your every move at this point, looking for you to do something exactly like this, and yet talked about it on the jailhouse call

the day before? So what is she thinking here? It's just, it doesn't make any sense. She really thought she was just going to stroll into that airport, get on a plane, and fly away from any accountability. On December 11th, Donna Sue appeared before Leon Circuit Judge Stephen Everett for her arraignment and hearing on a motion filed by her lawyer to remove her from Suicide Watch at the Leon County Detention Facility, which happened to be the exact same place that Charlie was. This was also where she entered her not guilty plea. But the whole motion to get her removed from Suicide Watch was very important. And also these claims made by Donna Sue and her attorneys that she was being very mistreated while in custody of the police. So Donna Sue's attorney, Maricel Descalzo, alleged in court documents that her client had been subjected to cruel and inhumane conditions

during her two-week stay at the detention facility, claiming that after Donna arrived there on November 20th, she was put in the infirmary under supervision before being moved to a small, solitary unit with a toilet, a sink, a mattress on the floor, and a dirty blanket. Although Donna had requested something to read, like a book or the Bible, she was not given anything. She wasn't even given utensils. She was forced to eat her meals with her hands. On November 21st, a mental health official asked Donna about medication she was taking, but Donna claims she felt uncomfortable because she could not see this person's face and she wasn't certain that they were actually a

healthcare professional. So the motion stated, quote, when Donna made her concerns known, the official told Donna that Donna is a fancy white lady who murdered her son and now she thinks she has rights. The official joked with the other guards about this outside Donna's door. End quote. Maricel Descalzo also wrote that some jail staff had treated Donna Sue poorly, withholding her blood pressure medication and not allowing her to shower for days at a time. The lawyer claimed that even though Donna Sue had not been convicted of any crime, jail officials were intentionally punishing her and violating her constitutional rights, stating, quote, Now, I'm not necessarily saying that these things aren't true. I do believe that the jail did not give her utensils to eat with. And I believe that maybe they didn't even give her clothes and she was

forced to sit without clothes in this room. But that's because she was on suicide watch. So I think that that's pretty common. They don't give you anything that they think you can use to end your own life. And it's not hard to understand why they placed on a sue on suicide watch, considering the statements that she made during that phone call. Do I think that there was a medical or mental health professional who was like, oh, you're just a rich white lady and you thought you could get away with this, like making fun of her? I don't believe that that happened. Do I think that they withheld her blood pressure medication? No, I don't think that that happened. But either way, Donna sues the perpetual victim, and she just wants people to feel bad for her. During her court appearance,

she behaved in the way she'd been accustomed to behaving her whole life, extra and entitled, forcing the judge to have to step in at some point and tell her to chill out. It was a big day for Donald Adelson, Vinny. We didn't know what we were going to expect from the matriarch of the Adelson family. She walked into the courtroom today, which was different than the last time she had a first appearance in front of a judge. She was only remote, but now she walked in with handcuffs on and she looked very erect in the way that she walked in, rather confident, a little bit hunched over when she sat in the chair talking to her attorneys,

but completely engrossed in these arguments. So other than entering her plea today, she had an emergency motion that was on the record with the judge. And this was the time to hear his decision and to hear these arguments. And it all has to do with where she's being kept in the jail, what unit she's being kept in. Here's a look at a bit from that emergency motion where it talks about her being moved to the infirmary under direct observation by officials. She was then placed in a small solitary unit with a toilet and a sink and a mattress on the floor and a dirty blanket. This is what her defense is alleging. They're saying she had requested a book or a

Bible, had not been given anything and had been forced to eat food with her hands. So today was all about trying to get her either a psych evaluation ordered by the judge, a new unit inside of the Leon County Jail or to get her released to house arrest was another one of the requests by the defense. So again, she was leaning into these arguments, even had some audible reactions to her attorney, Maricel Del Caso, who was making those arguments on her behalf. And then sort of for the state or for the jail, you had the attorney for the Leon County

Jails and really jails across the state, Greg Toomey, and also Norman Mack, the chief deputy of the detention center. Take a listen. We are now on day 22 of direct observation. Mrs. Adelson continues unable to participate in her defense. She's not permitted any papers. I cannot mail her anything. I did have a call with her on Friday, but only because Mrs. Kappelman facilitated it for me. And on that call, it was not a private call. Ms. Adelson was forced to put me on speakerphone with guards listening. There is just no way that Mrs. Adelson can prepare for her defense in this manner. There is no impediment to her speaking with her lawyer, seeing her lawyer, over and above

using a tablet. The tablet has a headset that can be used as a ligature. When she was booked into the jail here, she made a statement that she wanted to die. Now before she was arrested in Miami, she also had a phone call with her son, who's obviously in jail here. Twenty-five minute phone call with her son, who's obviously in jail here. 25-minute phone call. I personally listened to it. She very clearly spoke about a plan to kill herself using sleeping pills. One moment, Ms. Adelson, please keep your comments to yourself. Let your lawyer argue on your behalf. Spoke of a plan to kill herself if she could not escape the country before arrest.

That was known to the folks in this jail when she got here. That's why she's on watch. The mental health professionals see her every day. They are not satisfied that she's safe. In a word there, the defendant, expressive. She almost seemed that she wanted to make eye contact with Chief Mack to make sure he looked her in the eye when he was saying those things that she clearly didn't agree with. The ruling on this, the judge decided that he could

not get involved at this stage, that the jail has other avenues that they need to exhaust before he would feel comfortable getting involved because of separation of powers. Ultimately, he didn't find any constitutional violations from the bench, and he asked these parties to make it happen where Donna Adelson can talk to her attorney privately. Even after being told to keep her comments to herself, Donna Sue could not help herself from glaring at those talking to the judge, from shaking her head, rolling her eyes and smirking when things were said that she didn't agree with. And I'm not sure if you heard it when they were

talking about her making those comments on the call. She she piped up. She was like, oh, my God, like she just was. I can't believe they're saying this. She's just the audacity is all I all I can say about this. On Friday, January 10th, 2024, a substitution of counsel motion was filed to replace Donna Sue's attorney, Maricel Descalzo, with Charlie's lawyer, Daniel Rashbaum, the same lawyer who had not been able to get Charlie a non-guilty verdict. Donna Sue hired Rashbaum, along with a well-known Tallahassee criminal defense attorney, Alex Morris, to represent her in her upcoming murder trial. Morris released a statement shortly after this motion was accepted, saying, quote, Donna Adelson is a mother, grandmother, and wife. She is not guilty of the crimes with which she is

charged. She has never participated in any criminal conspiracy and certainly not one where the object was to kill Dan Markell, end quote. As of now, no trial date has been set for Donna Sue, but Daniel Rashbaum has announced that she will not be waiving her right to a speedy trial. They want to get to the trial as soon as possible, and Rashbaum expects that this trial should happen by the summer. As of now, though, legal professionals and armchair detectives alike are debating on whether or not Donna Sue will be the last arrest in this case, or if there are more to follow, specifically Wendy and her father Harvey. And it came out that when police first interviewed her, they asked her if she would know anyone who would do this. Naturally, they went to her. She was the one having issues with Dan Markell. And she immediately began spilling the beans on what a

difficult situation it was, how mad her parents were at it, the things that Charlie had said, things that she just volunteered to police. What do you think that was about? I couldn't make up my mind if that was someone speaking who was guilty, trying to cover it up or someone who just didn't really know what was going on and was afraid that something awful had happened. Right, I mean, I heard that part of her testimony and it sounded at the time, if you put that testimony in a box and just in a vacuum, it sounds sincere that, you know, when asked by investigators who could have done this and she insinuated,

you would look at my brother Charlie. So that goes to her defense if there is charges filed against her but then when you look at all the other things that this is your family they did it at your behest if not at your request that's where we're going to start getting into the the nuance of you know back and forth between the prosecution and the defense, whether she had actual knowledge of an actual planning effect or as her ex-boyfriend indicates, that it was explored. Doesn't mean that it was executed with her knowledge, but that Charlie had discussed with her that it was explored. Dr. Lacey, I gotta ask you, you watched her on the stand. She didn't strike me as someone that would be rattled under pressure.

I thought she handled herself extremely well on the stand, she didn't strike me as someone that would be rattled under pressure. I thought she handled herself extremely well on the stand. She didn't strike me as someone who would go into an interrogation room or would be interviewed by police and be so nervous that she just sort of spilling the beans. So in my heart of hearts,

I believe that maybe it was calculated. What sense did you get of her on the stand? I would probably say that when she went to the stand, obviously she was well prepared and she knew probably with the help of those that are around her of what was going to be asked. But when I look back at the video of her being interrogated, I would imagine that some of that truly was probably authentically her. But then there's some part of it that probably she did know

that because her boyfriend or ex boyfriend, in those romantic relationships, you're very comfortable, you speak the truth, you're in this intimate relationship. So I would imagine with the very least agreeing with Jason that she probably at least had some exploratory conversations or knew what was being discussed. The execution of it, perhaps they protected her from that. Now, Carla Steinbeck, conspiracy charges don't require that much just to act in furtherance of the conspiracy and agreement between the group. The one thing they don't have, though, with Wendy is a lot of her on tape, a lot of these using

the code and doing the different things that they've got against Donna and Charlie. They don't have her doing that. Your thoughts on whether she might be next? I will say one thing. In the probable cause affidavit

for the arrest of Charlie, she's mentioned as a co-conspirator. In the one for Donna, she is not. I'll just say that. But your thoughts? Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of indications of what she was doing before, during, and after the murder of Dan Markell that indicate she was not only just aware of it, but she was actively involved in it.

In fact, the prosecutor in the closing argument of Charlie Adelson's trial argued that Jeff Lacoste, her ex-boyfriend that she dumped a few days before the murder, actually was framed to be the fall guy. He was supposed to take the fall and have the police go after him, but he left town a day earlier, so her plan backfired. He also had videotaped a show he was up in Tennessee. So she took an active role in a number of ways. She also didn't talk to Dan the week he was murdered. He was trying to talk to her about the new school she had set up with the boys unbeknownst to him. And so Dan was actually talking to somebody at the school to try to find out more about the school at the time he got the two shots to his

head. So there is a lot of evidence there. And I would submit to you there's well over 100 indicators of her involvement. I've put those out there on our YouTube channel, Jury Trial Mentor, and you can come to your own conclusions as to whether she was involved or not. But I think there's a strong enough case that there could easily be a proof beyond a reasonable doubt if you have the right prosecutor trying it. Yeah, and it's important to note that the limited immunity that she got was only to anything she testified to. All the evidence you're talking about and anything that was garnered other than through her testimony is still useful against her in a prosecution. I suspect they may need her for Donna's prosecution, and then they may go after her.

In Wendy Adelson's police interview, you saw she was asked whether anyone would hurt Dan, and she told them that joke that Charlie made about the TV and the hitman. This is Stephen Webster's take on that. It's really interesting now, you know, looking at it now, I almost wonder if that wasn't somewhat of a insurance policy for Wendy, that if it went sideways and if the truth came out, that she would be able to hide behind that and say, look, I wouldn't have pointed the finger at Charlie right away if I was involved in it. You know, I was just genuinely trying to help the law, the police figure out who did it. But I know Charlie, he seems to have a lot of animosity towards Wendy at this point, if you listen to his jail phone calls. And I'm sure that's part of it.

Prosecutors say she's an unindicted co-conspirator, as is her father, Harvey. I mean, for all we know, there could be sealed indictments sitting around somewhere. Do you think that eventually the prosecution, do you think they're just going one by one, just kind of dismantling the conspiracy, like knocking kind of one pin down at a time? Or what is your feeling and your thought on that? You're in Tallahassee, you travel in these legal circles, you've been attached to this case for so long. So do you believe she will be indicted? I do more so now than ever. Why? You know, I just get a sense that the strategy that the state attorney's office has employed has worked. And there are major fissures now in their house, their defense. Charlie being sentenced to life.

Donna in the Leon County Jail. Like you said, Wendy identified as an unidentified, unindicted co-conspirator. And I feel as though that there is going to be additional arrests made. And I'm not sure if it's both or one or the other, but I do believe there are more arrests coming. Wendy Adelson has always maintained that she and her family had nothing to do with Dan Markell's murder. Do you think that that arrest of Wendy, if it indeed happens, do you believe that it will come after Donna Adelson's trial or before? I mean, I'm sure they can do more than one thing at a time. I mean, it's the same case, basically the same evidence with some,

I'm sure some differences here and there. That was my belief when Donna was first arrested, but I'm starting to lean towards the possibility that momentum is picking up faster. You know, the search warrants that have recently been served, We don't know what they were for, but we know that they got electronic devices from Donna. All of the jail phone calls, it just feels as though there is real momentum right now in this case. And I think it's a distinct possibility that the state makes another arrest before Donna's trial. And there are more than one defendant sitting at that table. Really? So you think there's a possibility that Donna and Wendy could be tried together? I do. I think it's a possibility. I didn't believe that two weeks ago, but I just get the sense that with what's happening, with the momentum that's picking up, with the search warrants,

with the electronic devices, with the phone calls, you know, it just the release of the phone calls with Donna being where she's at, that there is their whole earth is shaking underneath their feet right now. And the state has worked this perfectly up to this point. They've utilized each trial to kind of pull out, call out some more information, pull some more information out. Wendy is locked in to some to some really bad testimony. Her testimony at the subsequent trials where she had use and derivative use immunity. You know, that's that's not going to be used. But unless she gets on the stand and says something different, then they can use it to impeach her. But her original statement to law enforcement was that she drove up to the crime scene.

That's that's an evidence that can be used against her. That that was not obtained under any grant of immunity. So that testimony is damning. And she can try to spin it any way she wants. That was my comfortable route. That's the way I like to go. But nobody in Tallahassee is going to buy that. No juror in Tallahassee is going to buy that. No juror in Tallahassee is

going to buy it. So that's where we are now. I am very interested to get to a place where we can see what happens during Donna Sue Adelson's trial, because I suspect that it's not going to be the same information that we already know. Obviously, that's going to come into play. But I suspect the police obviously have more that implicates her deeper in this conspiracy to take Dan Markell's life. And I'm very much looking forward to seeing what kind of evidence they have. But at this point, we've reached the end of the episode and it's time for final thoughts. We've reached the end of the series and it's time for final thoughts on this case in general. Do you want to go first? I'll let you go first. No, I'll let you go first. Okay. So try to

go in chronological order here because this is an eight-part series, so there's a lot. And I'm going to do my best not to be redundant here because if you listen to the series, if you watch the series, you know a lot of what I'm pulling from. So to start with the easy one, Harvey, I don't see an indictment for him. I feel like if they were going to arrest him, they would have done that when they arrested Donna, because it would be a very similar circumstance. I think you're looking at a situation where even the way she described him to the police officers, he's 80 years old, how's he going to get home? I think they were more sheltering him because although he was a situation where even the way she described him to the police officers, he's 80 years old. How's he going to get home? I think they were more sheltering him because although he was a good

dentist and all that, maybe he's not of the same mental capacity he once was. And they just, they kept it in house and wanted to have as little people involved as possible to avoid, you know, the less than, you know, what they don't know can't hurt them type thing. So I think Harvey absolutely as trial took place and as maybe conversations were happening behind closed doors, either it was directly said to him or he put two and two together, knowing his son, knowing his wife, knowing when she's nervous and when she's lying, probably put together what really transpired here. but he doesn't have an obligation to come forward and be like, yeah, I think they did it too. As a husband, as a father, he's going to play dumb at minimum, but at maximum, he's going to try to flee the country

with his wife, which clearly he tried to do. So I don't see them going after Harvey in this. And I don't think anybody in that video suggested that either, maybe one person did, but that's where I stand on Harvey. As far as Charlie and Katie and all them, it's pretty proof's in the pudding. We went over it, like I said, seven parts. The evidence is overwhelming against both of them, including the Luis Garcia and Sigfredo Garcia and Luis Rivera slam dunk for all of them. They can appeal it. Maybe something you never know with the judicial system. Nothing's guaranteed, but I think they're pretty much up, you know, what's Creek without a paddle.

So they're gone, which kind of now that brings us to Wendy, which I think is like where if we were to take a poll, that's where the most dissension would be amongst our listeners and viewers. I think that's something where it's going to be the area where you're going to have people fall on two different sides of the aisle the most out of all of these people we've discussed. So first off, I'll acknowledge that if they have more evidence, more incriminating evidence against Wendy and it wasn't needed for Charlie's conviction or it's not needed for Donna's conviction, they're not going to go forward with that. They're not going to disclose that. So I say all of what I'm about to say based on what we know because I can't give you an analysis on something I haven't heard or seen yet. So I say that as a qualifying statement, as obviously they come out with a video or an audio tape where Wendy's saying, yeah, I told you to do it this way. Then obviously my opinion would change.

One more thing before I start jumping around, Donna Sue, the, obviously the arrest, I think it's good. I don't think it'll be as easy as a trial of a trial as it was for Charlie, unless there's again something I don't know. Because although she was involved, to me, if you're looking at this in like a linear perspective, it was kind of Donna to Charlie, Charlie to Katie, Katie to the hitmen. So there was like this hierarchy and she was the least hands-on out of all of them. Although I do think

with the bump and the conversations and the things she said after, including most importantly, a phrase that is not used enough consciousness of guilt, right? What she did after the fact to suggest her part in the actual crime. I think that's going to be a big problem for her trying to flee. The country is not a good look and can be used at trial. So back to Wendy. With Wendy, there's no doubt in my mind, we've seen it in our own personal lives where you have a family member that you care about who is going through a divorce or a traumatic situation and you're their shoulder to cry on.

The mom, Charlie, they're all hearing from her every day about how her life is ruined, about how she can't leave with her kids, about how she just wants to be with them. And the big bad boogeyman, Dan Markell, is not allowing this to happen. And to be fair, I haven't really heard of many divorces where both parties aren't villainized to this extreme. It's a very common thing, unfortunately. So you have Charlie sitting there getting frustrated. You have Donna getting frustrated. I've said it before, they're wealthy, successful people. They usually get what they want, not only because of their ambition and their determination, but also their money. So not getting what they want is not

something they're accustomed to. So I think there's an ego element to this, but also an element of Wendy being the younger sister or the daughter and that innate ability to want to protect her, to want to help her out and to ease her pain. And so do I think there were conversations had with Wendy present about life without Dan Markell, without him being present? Absolutely. Would I even go as far as saying maybe there was some potential manipulation on Wendy's part where she knew how much she was infuriating Charlie and that maybe it would lead him to do something like this? Possible. But as far as the crime itself, I guarantee you that she was the first person they looked at. And investigators have already come out and said that they believe she had involvement. They've inferred it multiple times. So based on what we know now about the case,

if they had enough to charge her, they would have charged her already before these other people, in my opinion. To me, them charging Charlie, Katie, and now Donna first tells me that they feel she's involved, but maybe they don't feel they have enough yet to get a conviction. And there's a big difference. You can have enough to make an arrest. You can have enough to get an indictment, but are you going to have enough for a jury of her peers to find her guilty? We have talked about the fact that she's very unlikable on the stand. That would obviously go against her. But we've said it before. You have a 12-person jury.

You only need one person to come back and say, yeah, listen, I definitely think she knew that this could be a potential possibility based on how unhinged her brother was. And there were conversations that probably happened that were sometimes funny, but also sometimes kind of serious and kind of more detailed and descriptive than they should be when you're talking about killing another person. And she displayed ignorance to that. But they're going to have to show that she had some type of direct involvement, whether it was through money or the planning. That's what they're going to have to show.

And as the experts on that video said, and they don't agree with me, they feel like there is stuff. But one of them did say, she's not on tape a lot. She's not on video a lot. Yeah. And she doesn't even have a lot of text messages, by the way, because she seems to have communicated mainly with her family through WhatsApp, not regular texting. Right.

So either she's very methodical and measured or she's just lucky. But when I'm looking at it, do I think that Wendy could be arrested after all this? Yes, it's very possible. Do I think they're going to have enough to convict her? I think it's unlikely. I think that it's going to be a circumstantial case, which we've seen convictions before. But I think with everybody involved in this case, and it's a big web, she has the most insulation. So unless they can convince Donnana or charlie or katie or someone which i think katie if katie had any knowledge that wendy was involved she would have destroyed she would have killed her i think she because at this point she's already going after charlie

why not bring down the whole clan that's responsible for her never seeing the light of day again so katie's um kat Katie has alluded to the fact that she believes Wendy was involved. But I do think that Charlie did a good job of keeping well, just keeping everything separate. Like he didn't have any direct contact with Sigfrido Garcia or Luis Rivera. And none of those three, Katie, Luis or Sigfrido had direct contact with Wendy. Yeah. So that's kind of that's kind's kind of where I'm at right now. Do I think there could be one more arrest? I don't think Harvey will get arrested.

Wendy could get arrested. They may take a shot at her based on what they have. There may be a discussion where they say, listen, we think she's involved. Let's go for it. Let's see what the, you know, we got three out of four so far. Let's see what happens. But I think the reason they're hitting everyone else first is a strategic purpose, not because they're saving the best for last. It's because right now,

investigators are talking to prosecutors and prosecutors are probably saying, yeah, we agree with you. We think she's involved, but we don't think we got enough for a conviction. So first of all, I want to say, I don't think that what happened to Dan Markell had anything to do with protecting Wendy or easing her pain, because there's no evidence that Dan Markell was physically or verbally abusive in any way. There's no evidence that I mean, she was the one who filed for divorce. She was the one that sort of, you know, bombarded him with this. He didn't really see it coming. I think it had to do with pride and ego. No one's going to get the best of the Adelson family. It wouldn't have mattered if someone was going after Wendy, if someone was going after Charlie, if someone was going after Dennis Sue. They would

have reacted in the same way. Do anything possible to make sure that the Adelson family always keeps the upper hand. No one is going to best us. It's a pride thing. Now, I do think that Wendy is a target of law enforcement. I think that they may try to indicate that she knew before Dan Markell died that there was a hit on his life. However, she was not actively participating in planning it. And they might use this knowledge or this theory to try and get her to testify against her mother during Donna's trial. They may try to use Wendy as a witness, a state's witness against her mother. That may be a route that they take. However, I do think that the arrests are not done. I agree with you on Harvey. I think that Harvey probably didn't know anything about it.

It seems like he's kind of clueless. It seems like he kind of just goes about his day and Donna Sue kind of wears the pants and runs the show and he just follows her lead. But with Wendy, there's too much here. Her driving by the house the day of the murder, her, you know, kind of making sure that Jeffrey Lacase was leaving on a certain time and verifying when he would be leaving and what route he would be taking. Her completely avoiding Dan Markell in the week leading up to his murder. She did a lot of things. Just her police interview in general was completely

odd. The way she testified was completely odd. I think she knew. And I don't even think that they directly came out and told her, but maybe it was one of these things where Charlie was like, you know, would you be okay if I got a hit man and took him out? Like, would that be something you'd be open to? And she may have followed his lead and sort of, you know, did it in a joking way, but she would have been like, oh, yeah, absolutely. Like, let me know when you want to do that. I'm all for it. Let me know what you need from me kind of thing. And they both sort of tongue in cheek were like, OK, we understand what this means. I think there is going to be evidence that she had some knowledge of what was going to happen to Dan before it happened, which would then lead

to, you know, you didn't stop it. You didn't do anything to prevent it in a way you are guilty, even if you were not responsible for setting up this hit. And they may use that little piece of information to get her to testify against Donna or to give them some information that will condemn Donna Sue. So at the end of the day, those are pretty, that's pretty much it wrapped up for me. Charlie's exactly where he needs to be. Donna Sue's exactly where she needs to be. Katie Magbanua, Sigfrido Garcia, Luis Rivera, they're all where they need to be. They played with fire and they thought that they could outsmart, you know, law enforcement agencies, the FBI, everybody. And then that was proved to not be the case.

So as far as Wendy, dude, I don't know. I feel bad because I don't want to say, yeah, throw her in prison. You know, she's got sons who already lost one parent. But at the same time, if she knew what was going to happen to Dan before it happened and she did nothing, I think that she does belong behind bars and we'll see what happens. I'm very interested to get to Donna's trial. And when it does happen, we will do a crime weekly news to update you on any new information that that came out during that trial.

Yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm going to, if that's the route they go, I'm sure this case study on it, but I don't know how they prove just because she knew, how can they prove that she 100% knew unless there's, like I said,

a recording or a text exchange? Like if these are conversations. Well, let's say they took Donna's phone, right? They took Donna's phone and there's a WhatsApp conversation between her and Wendy where there's something said there. Wendy can control what's on her phone. She can control what she deletes, what she gets rid of, what she doesn't want anyone to see. But Donna Sue, man, when she got arrested,, what she doesn't want anyone to see. But Donna Sue, man, when she got arrested, she hung on to that phone for dear life. Like she was like yanking it out

of their hands. She's like, you're not taking this. That leads me to believe there's something on that phone that she doesn't want anyone to see. And she did not do her due diligence in erasing or resetting her phone, which I definitely would have done before I went to the airport to flee the country because I thought I was going to be arrested. I would I would have done factory reset my phone, broke that bitch in half, put it in the frickin Atlantic Ocean, gotten a burner phone. No one's ever getting their hands on that phone. But Donna Sue, once again, thinks she's smarter than everyone else. Yeah, she's in trouble. Yeah, it's going to be I wish I had a I wish I had a defense attorney here like Sarah Azari or someone to talk about it because I don't even know the answer to this. I'm thinking out loud, but it's a matter of if someone says, I'm thinking about killing this person, what's the legal obligation to report it?

And if you don't report it, is it a crime? I don't think it is. I think that. I don't think it is. Isn't there like a good Samaritan law like that. I mean, it's almost like it's the same thing as like when you see someone being assaulted on the street. If you get these people who pull out their phones instead of helping like. Yeah, but there's a good Samaritan law that says I think certain states have a good Samaritan law. But it's I don't know how that works in.

I don't know how that would work in Florida. I mean, I don't know the answer. That's why I'm saying I'm posing it as a question. And I'm sure there's going to be someone who's an attorney in Florida who can weigh in. And if you are, please do. if it was disclosed to Wendy Adelson before the murder that, hey, listen, even if it was, this is a lot, this is a lot, but let's say there was something where Charlie says to her and there's evidence of it. Hey, all I got to tell you is don't be around Dan's house next week. That's all I'm telling you. And that's like the extent of what she knew. She can infer a lot of things from that's like the extent of what she knew. She can infer a lot of things from that based on the conversation. Does she have a legal responsibility to report it? And if she doesn't report it, can she be charged with conspiracy to commit murder if the inference was made that there was going to be a murder because of previous conversations? Like,

oh, it would be cheaper to hire a hitman to buy a TV than hire a hitman. I think that's going to be a burden of the prosecution to describe and to articulate that conversation if it happened and describe how this murder could have been prevented if not for Wendyendy's inaction and if the florida law supports a statue or a crime if someone is aware of what's happening and chooses not to report it that's like it's like a great question it's a great legal question and i'd be interested to get some answers on it for sure because i it says i looked it up and it says failure to report a crime also known as mispriscy misprision of a felony is a crime committed when someone is aware that a felony

has been committed but fails to disclose it to the authorities this crime stemmed from english common law which required citizens to report crimes or face criminal charges however there must be proof that there was an evil motive ignoring the crime will not result in prosecution so and she'd know that as a lawyer yeah but you said that as if if you know a crime was committed like if someone comes to you and says i killed this person and you don't report it it's a crime but preemptively it's like getting into the way like i could say tomorrow i hate that dude i'm gonna kill him like if i see him tomorrow i'm killing him like out of. Like that's what I'm asking.

Like where's the threshold? Because at that point, if we're to believe that she wasn't involved in the act and she was given a heads up where she knew what was going to happen preemptively, is she responsible for making the inference that that meant, oh, he's actually going to do it. This isn't just crazy Charlie talking out of his ass, talking like a tough guy again. He might actually do this. I need to go report it to police. I'm not defending her. I'm just, I'm putting it out there because if I hope they have more than that, if that's what they go with. And because if that's what they have, that's why I'm saying it could be, it could be, it's not going to be as clear cut as Charlie's case. I think you would

even know. And I think, I think that there's, so you can be considered an accessory to murder, even if you did nothing. For instance, like, let's say you knew your husband was going to be killed and you live in the same home together and you turn off your alarm system so that somebody can, that's an accessory. But if, but if you just knew about it, I don't know. I feel like there should be. Not if he said like, oh, you know, stay away from the house or joking like I might do this and you said nothing. If you were specifically told by Charlie or Donna Sue, we are going to have Dan Markell

killed on this date. Yes. And then you did nothing. If there's not a law against that, there definitely should be. I actually agree with you. Like if there's something evidentiary wise that proves she knew the date and time and how, you know, a general idea of what was going to go on, although she didn't facilitate it, she was involved in the planning of it, right? Even though she wasn't the leader, she's still involved with the planning.

So I would agree with you. The problem, the barrier is going to be based on what we've seen so far, proving that beyond a reasonable doubt. I wonder if she would argue and be like, yeah, they did tell me, but they told me in the capacity of a lawyer. So I couldn't say anything. I mean, I'd be good luck with that one. She's better off sticking with the version she's going with right now. She's better off just completely denying everything. Yeah, no, exactly.

But no, you're right. We'll stay in touch with it. This probably isn't the last domino to fall. We'll see how Donna's trial plays out. Although I think if I had to guess, she's going to be found guilty as well. I don't think it'll be as easy of a conviction as Charlie's case. And then if they're going to do it, they got to do it sooner than later with Wendy. I don't know.

After all the shit she talked about Tallahassee people and about the Tallahasseee jury after all that shit she talked. Yeah, it's not going to go well. It's not going to go well for her. Any final words from you? Obviously, we're going to talk about next week's case. By the way, this series, there are a few of you, very few, but there are a few that on Instagram or YouTube are like, oh, when's it over? And you know, I'm sick. I don't like this case. I want to be over it. Overall, analytically and engagement wise, this series was probably our most successful series since we've started Crime Weekly. We saw an exponential amount of growth in subscribers. We saw a lot of engagement in the comment section, the likes. And we don't normally see that much interest in viewership by part eight. That's just the nature of our beast. That's what we do. And we understand that with any long form podcast like we do, there's going to be a natural drop off because some

people are going to go search it and whatever. But I will tell you with this series, it was pretty consistent all the way through. So obviously, thank you for that. And we definitely learned a lot about it. And I do think it has a lot to do with the case itself because it's such a fascinating story. And I think I said in episode one, this will more than likely be some type of lifetime movie or something at some point because it has all the characters needed to make a really interesting film down the road. Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you to all the new subscribers to the YouTube channel. Thank you

for everybody who's found us through this case and you've decided to stay and, you know, hang on for the ride. Thank you to everybody who's been with us for a year or two years or six months. And you were with us throughout this case. I think it was an important case to talk about, and I think it's a great one to add to our library, our growing library. But next week, we start a completely new case. So for everybody who wanted this one to be over, your wish is my command. Eight parts later, you're... Well, now we'll grant it for you. When I'm finished.

Okay. parts later you're yeah well now we'll grant it for you it's when i'm finished okay i mean this is a man's life i'm not over here like i better rush through this you know no no listen there was so much here we could we have done i personally and and actually way down in the comments on this one but i personally and i've said this to you off camera i like a longer series shorter episodes i feel like it's more consumable. You're getting less information in each episode. It's easier to digest. And I'd much rather have an extra episode to kind of compartmentalize each segment of this case instead of trying to cram it all in in two parts or three parts.

And the episodes are three hours long. But maybe you guys disagree. By all means, tell us what you think. We're always open to suggestions. So nothing else from you? We're wrapping up? We're out of here? Let's wrap it up, yeah.

Guys, appreciate you being here for us. This eight-part series, this has got to be a tie for our longest series, right? Or was Adnan longer? No, I think it's definitely up there. Yeah, it's up there for sure. So we appreciate you sticking it out all the way through. We'll be back with a new case next week. Everyone stay safe out there. Have a good night. Bye.