Crime Weekly - S3 Ep185: Crime Weekly News: Laken Riley’s Killer Arrested

Episode Date: February 29, 2024

On Thursday February 22nd, 2024, a student at the University of Georgia called the police to express concern that her friend, 22-year-old Laken Riley, had not returned from a run she had left for earlier that morning. University officers found Riley on the ground in the woods behind Lake Herrick, unconscious and not breathing, with visible injuries and she was declared dead at the scene. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod

Hey everyone, welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derek Levasseur. And I'm Stephanie Harlow. get right into this one because this is a story that's not going to be surprising to many of you if you're watching on YouTube or even if you're listening on audio, you can see the title of the video or the podcast. Everybody's talking about this case right now as they should be. So for anyone who doesn't know about it, I'm going to give you a quick synopsis and then Stephanie will get into the details. So on Thursday, February 22nd, 2024, a student at the University of Georgia called the police to express concern that her friend, 22-year-old Laken Riley, had not returned from her run she had left earlier for that morning. University officers found Riley on the ground in the woods behind Lake Herrick, unconscious and not breathing, with visible injuries, and she was declared dead at the scene.

Before Stephanie gets into the details, this is just a terrible situation. Our thoughts are with Lakin's family and obviously the whole community. And I won't jump ahead here. I'll let Stephanie get into the details and then we can talk about it. So Lakin Riley was a nursing student at the University of Georgia until the spring of 2023. And then at that point, she transferred to Augusta University College of Nursing. So an autopsy was done after Lakin was found dead, and it determined she died from blunt force trauma to the head. On February 23rd, Jose Antonio Ibarra was charged with the felonies of malice murder, murder kidnapping, false imprisonment, aggravated assault, aggravated battery, and

concealing the death of another, as well as the misdemeanor of physically hindering a 911 call. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement has reported that Ibarra is a Venezuelan national who entered the United States illegally in 2022. And in a statement to Fox News, ICE confirmed that he had been encountered by Border Patrol on September 8th, 2022, after entering the country near El Paso, Texas, at which point Ibarra was paroled and released for further processing, which I believe means he was allowed to just stay in the United States. And they said, you know, come back and let us know what you're doing here and all that stuff. And he never did. So a year later, on August 31st, 2023, Ibarra was

arrested in New York City and he was charged with acting in a manner to injure a child less than 17 and a motor vehicle license violation. Ibarra was released before a detainment could be issued. And since New York City is considered a sanctuary city, law enforcement is usually restricted from complying with ICE detainers anyways. On October 27th, 2023, Ibarra was cited for shoplifting in Athens, Georgia, and he had an outstanding bench warrant

for failing to appear in court and on these shoplifting charges. So at this point, Jose Antonio Ibarra is accused of using an object to harm Lakin Riley, to harm her. That's what he's accused of doing. He's accused of using an object to murder her. In fact, I believe what the police report said is that her skull was completely disfigured. He also appears to have stopped her from calling 911, and then he dragged her body to a secluded area. And obviously, we don't know

exactly what happened to Lakin at this point. They have not released all the information. I think we can assume what he attacked her for, what he wanted from her. Investigators say that Jose Ibarra was not a student at the university, and he does not appear to have known his victim. They believe this was a crime of opportunity opportunity and he acted alone, although his brother also is in the United States and he was recently arrested for having a fake green card. And his brother also has some shoplifting and crime charges that are that are on his record from the past few years. So yeah, this is awful. Absolutely awful. No, I couldn't agree more. And there's a couple different things we have to talk about here. First off, as far as Diego's concerned, there was a development- Is his name Diego? I thought it was Jose.

Well, Diego's the brother. Oh, you know his name? I didn't write it in here. Yeah, Diego's his brother. Well, you know, this is something that as a father I'm concerned about. Absolutely. Me too. That's exactly what I was thinking about. Nev, my daughter, she's 22 and she travels with her friends. So, I mean, I'm not someone who's like big into the true crime space. I know the irony of that where I'm like researching cases that I'm not working on. But if there's something that I feel I need to be caught up on for my own personal reasons, whether that's for me or someone I care about, then obviously I'm

going to take a vested interest in it. So one thing that I did learn about Diego was he did have a connection to the University of Georgia. He was working there briefly and he used that green card that he got arrested for to temporarily get the job. But then when he didn't produce the documents that he needed to stay there, they fired him without ever paying him. So that might give us a little bit of insight into why potentially Jose had a familiarity with the campus. Maybe he visited him before. I'm speculating there. But that is something that you guys can go read yourself. I'm actually looking at an article right now from the Washington Times. So that may be the connection as to, you know, or answer the question, why the University of Georgia? Maybe Diego had visited, maybe Diego was working there

and Jose had visited him and seen how different women had, you know, walked around the campus or ran around the campus and figured this was an opportunity. So a couple, I want to say- Wait, did Diego actually work shifts before they figured out? So they actually, without checking to make sure his documentation was valid, they put him on the campus with students without making sure that he actually was who he said he was?

So I'm going to read this directly from atlantanewsfirst.com. This is a direct quote from their article. You can go check it out yourself. It says, Diego Ibarra presented a fake green card to the hiring unit and to begin a temporary position as a dishwasher in the Bolton Dining Hall at UGA on February 6, 2024, according to a university spokesperson. Oh, the same month. Yep, that's Greg Trevor.

He subsequently failed to submit, this is all quotes, he subsequently failed to submit further documentation required to keep the job and was never paid by the university. He was then fired. This is directly from, again, Greg Trevor, who is a university spokesperson. So he was arrested after possessing that fake green card. So that may be the connection here where why was Diego at the campus in the first place? Why was Jose at the campus in the first place? I apologize.

Yeah, why was Jose at the campus in the first place? Maybe because, like I said, he was visiting his brother on a couple occasions and got, you know, a layout of the land, if you will. And this all transpired from there. So the way I would like to talk about this is to compartmentalize the different issues we have here. Because I feel like as we walk over this case, and we joke a lot about landmines and getting canceled. And to be frankly honest with you, we really don't care. If you don't stand for something, you stand for nothing. So we're both parents. We're going to speak about this from the position and the perspective as citizens of this country and

parents ourselves who potentially will have kids in these universities where they're supposed to be safe. And so there's two ways I want to talk about this. First off, I want to talk about the issue at hand. A few years ago, I was selling those keep you safe kits and the need for them. And it still holds true. No matter where you are, whether it's at a Walmart in a really tough neighborhood in the middle of the night, or you're at a huge university like UGA or the University of Idaho for that matter, right? It could be anywhere. You never know.

It could be the person right next to you who has these malicious intentions and they will not give you any indication of it until they actually act. I don't say these things to scare you. I say them to have you approach every situation and every person with a certain level of caution. Because unfortunately, I wish this weren't the case. That's the world we live in now. That's the world we live in. And that's not even talking about the offender himself. We're going to do that. We're going to do that. But this is just on the surface, illegal or not. And like a perfect example, just to counter it, University of Idaho, Kohlberger is a legal citizen, right? And he's a monster just like this guy. So

on the surface, it doesn't matter one way or the other, this can happen anywhere. And so if you're someone who's a parent who has kids attending school, or even if you're an adult, it could happen to anyone anywhere where you're on a run at a grocery store, at the beach, at the movies, it doesn't matter. Nowhere is safe. And the best thing you can do is still live your life, but approach it with this level of caution that I have to be cognizant of my surroundings no matter what. And if you do that, even if you're wrong, maybe it avoids a situation where you could potentially become a victim of opportunity because you're running in an area that allows this individual to attack you without anybody noticing. And I hate that I have to say this. I'm not saying Lakin did anything wrong. There's no victim blaming here. It's wrong that I even have to, as a former police officer, give you that advice. But there's certain things I can't control.

All we can control is how you approach the situation, not how these monsters act. So unfortunately for us, because this is the reality we live in, I only caution you guys to go out there and just be careful because these cases should be reminders of what can potentially happen to you or someone you care about. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, she tried to defend herself in what way she could, which was to call 911, right?

She probably saw him following her. He may have said something to her. He may have made her feel uncomfortable. Either way, he did something that set off alarm bells in her head, which caused her to feel like she had to pick up her phone and call 911, which he stopped her from doing. He then proceeded to attack her and kill her. Now, why did he feel it was necessary to do that? I mean, if he went after a woman without wearing a mask, without concealing his identity in any way, he was afraid that she would identify him or he was just so angry that she was fighting back. I'm not sure which. But either way, if she had had something else on her, she could have attacked him and she could have wounded him maybe enough to get away. But once again, as a college student running on your college campus, you shouldn't have to worry about that. I used to go running all the time when I was in college, especially when it rained at night

by myself. And I think about that now, doing that now, I never would. And I would tell my daughter not to. And unfortunately, just in the last 15 or so years, that's the reality of the landscape that we face. But I am just glad that they identified him because he is in the country illegally. And when you have somebody here in the country illegally who doesn't have a record, who doesn't have a driver's license, who may not have their fingerprints in the system, you do get concerned about that because they're like ghosts and you may never find them. And I mean, I think that a lot of crimes that happen where the person's a

ghost and isn't in the system, they go unsolved because they were here and then they were gone. You see that even Ibarra, he comes in through Texas, then he's in New York City the next year. The year after that, he's in Georgia. He's going all over the place. And there's not even really, you know, if he hadn't gotten arrested, if he hadn't gotten into legal trouble of any kind, we wouldn't even know where this dude was because he doesn't have a social security number. He doesn't have a driver's license. His fingerprints aren't in the system from, you know, a previous arrest or for any reason. And it would be like he was never there. So this is a big concern, I think, because not only do you have people coming in who know that they're ghosts, right? They know.

It doesn't matter if they catch me on surveillance. I don't have a driver's license in the United States. It doesn't matter if I leave fingerprints. They're not on file anywhere. Not only are they committing crimes, but they're committing them blatantly because they know that there's really no way to track them down. With this case, they were lucky because he'd been arrested and he'd been in legal trouble before. But what if he hadn't? Nobody would be brought to justice for what had happened.

And we would be talking about Lake and Riley in 10, 15 years as one of those cold cases that never got solved. So and I think there's going to be plenty of victims like that who were constantly 10, 15, 20 years wondering who did it. This person who came in went all around the country like a ghost and then maybe left or maybe is still here, but he's still a ghost. You know, it's just it's unfortunate. Yeah. I don't know why. Why? When somebody enters the country illegally, they they I mean, I know that it's happening in such large numbers that they can't really, they're probably overwhelmed. You think?

But I don't think that you can really let someone in who is a ghost, right, and then say, go on. Yeah, just come back here in a couple of weeks and update us about where you're staying and what you're doing, you know? Yeah. And then we'll get you the process started to get your green card. They're not going to come back, just like he didn't show up for his court date when he got picked up for shoplifting in Georgia. Why would he? They don't know where he is. They don't know where he's staying. He could not even be in Georgia anymore by the time the court date comes around. And he doesn't care because, once again, there's no way of tracking him. There's no repercussions for him not showing up for his court date, which I feel like

the justice system knows that, right? So what are they expecting? Him to just show back up in court and be like, yeah, here I am to take my medicine. No, no, I'm glad he got picked up now, but how many more like him are out there prowling right now? And this is obviously not to say every single person who enters the country illegally or otherwise is a criminal. Absolutely not.

My father came here as an immigrant into this country. All of his a criminal. Absolutely not. My father came here as an immigrant into this country. All of his family did. Those are my roots. However, just like the people in the United States, you have a mixed population. You've got a population of good people who want to follow the laws and who want to do things the right way. And then you have a few or a dozen or whatever, depending on how many numbers are coming in, of people who are literally just criminals looking for a new hunting ground because they went through their country and now they're here to do it, you know, to a new country. Just like any other population of any other country, there's good people and there's bad people. So you have to expect when you're letting people in in mass numbers, you're going to get

some people who have bad intentions. So I think there has to be a little bit of a better way. There has to be a little bit of a better tracking system, especially in sanctuary cities when you can't even hold them really in prison. You can't hold them for very long. They just, they get let go again. So what's the system?

Because it doesn't seem to be working. So do we have a plan before we continue to let people stream in who some are good, but some are bad? Is there a plan here? Do we have a system? Right? I mean, is that a hot take, like the crime itself. This is the second issue, right? Because it goes back to how did this happen and how did he get here? And I think this is a quote unquote hot topic because it's been so highly politicized, right? You have the Republican party, then you have the Democratic party, and depending on who you listen to, they both have different perspectives on this. But I will say from my general just reading of the news and looking on social media and stuff, I do feel collectively both sides are now acknowledging that there's a major crisis at the border. I don't really feel like Democrats are saying, oh, no, there's nothing going on. It's fine. They're acknowledging there's something going on. Now the political

argument is we're trying to fix it and the Republicans are stunting it. They won't allow it to happen. So we're not going to go there because that doesn't really, it concerns me. Yeah, you're talking about stuff that I have no knowledge of. Let's recap what you just said because you stole a lot of my thunder, which is a good thing. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. No, in a good way. And it's a great way because I can speak to it anecdotally, right? I can tell you I've worked with ICE. I'm like, no, but they're illegally here and they're committing crimes. They just got into a motor vehicle accident where they struck a house after drinking and driving. They're like, yeah, but it's still a misdemeanor. There's no injuries,

nothing. So it's a misdemeanor. I'm like, right, right, right. But they could have killed someone and this is their second DUI. So shouldn't we keep them now? And nah, no, we don't have the space for it. We don't have the capacity. You can release them. Very frustrating. Very frustrating. So to go back to what you were, and that's me personally, that's not my opinion. I've personally experienced that. And it's very frustrating. But as far as the board is concerned, I don't know anybody who can sit here and say, and I don't think a lot of people are, that there's not a major issue. We're letting in minimum 5,000 people a day they're trying to get to, like 5,000 people a day they're letting in. It's common sense that you're going to let in people who have intentions to hurt us. about the Ibaras of the world who may be criminals in other countries and then coming here. I'm talking about terrorists. I'm talking about like those individuals coming here as well. There's no checks and balances. As you said, they're coming in, they're claiming asylum,

and then they're being released into our country with a promise of returning to their court appearance when the time comes. And I don't know what the statistics are. Please call them out in the comments, but I'm pretty comfortable in saying the majority of them are not coming back. There's like over 12 million illegal immigrants in the country right now. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. If I knew you couldn't find me, I wouldn't go back. I'm going to be straight up with you, right? Yeah. So the question becomes, we're not blaming them, but we've got to start blaming the people who are making decisions like 12 million people. So how many before you realize that what you're doing isn't working? Now, I'm also just to qualify.

We're not saying people got to be in cages and all these things. We're not saying any of that. But there has to be a better system. That's not our job to figure it out. That's for the legislators to figure it out and to put aside their political agendas and do what's right for the country. Because I know there's going to be someone in the comments who says it, so I'm just going to cut you off at the legs right now. You're going to say, oh, well, how about the people killing each other in the country that are citizens? You're right.

You're right. We have a ton of those. So we've got to be more careful about letting more of them in that aren't part of our problem yet, that are someone else's problem. But because we're not vetting them thoroughly, they're coming in through the cracks. And I think Stephanie said this, but the majority of people coming here are coming for the right reason. I would just throw out a number and say, what, 90%? Sure. That's a great number. But it's still 10% of other countries' problems that are coming here that are extremely dangerous. I can tell you where I worked,

there was a huge MS-13 population and it was extremely dangerous. We had the Tartarios that literally used machetes to cut people's heads off. Most of them were not from this country. They got in through the border and we just, we don't really enforce it. You know, we don't really enforce it. You know,

we don't really go after it. So until they kill someone and then it's like, okay, now they're on the radar. We can't let them out. They're going to get detained. They're going to get, they're going to serve time here. I thought it was weird because I do remember this when we were shut down for COVID, the border was still open. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't that weird, but I also know about, well, I'm in New York, so we have border Patrol in a different way, right? We have Border Patrol in like the Canada way. Yeah, that's true. However, a lot of people with bad intentions will travel to Canada and then enter the country through Canada because it's far easier to come in than over the Mexican border, right? Obviously, when you're at the Mexico border, the Border Patrol there and ICE are very much more vigilant just based on

the cartels and the things that are already going on in the country, whereas Canada, it's like, what do they got going over there? Really nothing. So they're like super good, nice people. They do nothing wrong. They don't even swear, I think. I don't think Canadians swear. But anyways, so he would tell me about this. And there's a ton of human and child trafficking happening as well. So they'll come over with a bunch of kids and then they'll be like, oh, these are these are my kids. And then the people at the border will be like, OK, well, have fun here in this country

with you and your kids. A lot of the times, which this was my old neighbor, he worked for Border Patrol, and he said a lot of the times we would then find out weeks or months later these children were not their children. They were being sent to basically places of prostitution. And they were using, you know, the effort to get citizenship and getting a green card and saying, oh, I just want to give my family a better life as a guise to bring these kids in. And then the Border Patrol, ICE, the law enforcement, they don't find out until it's far too late. And these kids have already been victimized over and over and over again. So we have real concerns. And I will also just say, we have so many issues and concerns in this

country already without adding insult to injury at this point. So I think that it's fair to say maybe we need a better solution or some sort of I mean, it's 2024. We've got AI over here doing everything for us. People are walking around with these Apple vision goggles on doing this in the air and making things appear before them. We can't figure this out. We can't figure this out. And I think we need to maybe shut it down for just a little bit so we can deal with the numbers that we already have. But there has to be a better way of checking up on this. Otherwise, you're literally just punching holes in the boat and letting it sink because there's already so much happening here. And we already have so many people who are living on the streets here, so many people living at poverty levels, so many people who need government assistance, so many people who need the help of our government, and they're being overlooked already too. And now you're just adding to those numbers of people that are being overlooked, and whether it's to help them or to stop them from harming others, they're still being overlooked.

This is, we have so many people here already, so many people who need help, and so many people who have nefarious intentions. Do we maybe think we want to chill for a second and kind of like stop the bleeding before gashing it open again? I don't know. It just it feels obvious and logical, but I'm not sure what the reason is that there's not something better happening, I guess. Well, that's the political side to it, right? That's when you get the opinions of different parties who say why it's still going on the way it is. And we're not, this isn't what we do. So we're not going to go there. I think the final thing that I'll say on it is I know a lot of you

are probably, well, not a lot of you, but some will say, you know, you're sitting here pointing out the problems, but you don't have the solutions. And for me- How could we have the solutions at this point? The problem got so large. I have a suggestion. OK, what is it? My suggestion would be we have to serve as a deterrent. We have to set an example by, listen, if I'm someone coming from another country and I know what happens, if the United States is saying, don't come, but we know as an illegal

immigrant that when I get there, the process is for them to detain me and then they're going to release me into the United States, and then I can disappear. Well, I'm still going to come. Of course. I'm still going to come. It's almost like your kid. If you say, hey, you're going to lose your laptop or your iPad or your iPhone if you do this, and then they do it, and you give it back to them the next day, they're going to do it again. So we have to send a message globally that although we are a country that is diverse and wants the best of the best from around the world, we want people to come here. That's how we became what we are. You're not going to be able to come here and just go

into the country without being vetted. And we have to make it where the conditions are humane, but also not fun, right? Like there are people who have to come in. We have to help people when we can. But we have to set a precedent. We have to start doing something more than what we're doing. We have to protect our citizens who are here already or, because you may have to turn away some women and children who really do need help. And I say that with a huge heart, because I don't want that to be the case. But like you said, we have a huge problem in this country right now that's going to take probably decades to fix. And by saying out loud, don't come here, but with our actions saying another thing, nothing's going to change. And my final words is I'm not saying that this situation with Lakin is like the mass problem here. There's a lot of problems that we have. And I think that's what Stephanie's saying. We have a lot of other issues going on. We got a lot of issues, man.

And this seems like one that we can't fix perfectly, but we could definitely subdue exponentially, almost immediately by making a decision to say, hey, unfortunately, we can't take anybody else right now without until we have a better vetting process. Until we have a better system in place where we can make ensure that the people we're releasing into the country will return for court when time comes. Yeah. And I mean, like, think about it on a smaller scale, just because I know that people have a hard time understanding how to fix problems on such a large scale. But logically, think about it on a smaller scale. Let's say you are a woman and you have 10 children and you have gotten to the point now where you cannot keep these children under control and you can't even feed them at this point. Would you take in 10 more children? You probably wouldn't, right? Because you'd be like, no, I don't have the resources right now to handle 10 more children.

So I feel bad that these children need a place to go. But if they come here, it's not going to be good. So it's just it's not going to be a good situation. And I don't know, like, remember the show Locked Up Abroad? I don't know if it's still on. I know for a fact every time I go to a different country, I am so on my best behavior. And I'm not a criminal, but I don't even want to like litter because I don't know their laws, you know, and I ain't trying to get locked up abroad. I'm not trying to go to to get in any legal trouble in a different country because, I mean, like, it's not good for for you if you do that. Right. We all know. We've seen these shows. Sometimes these people sit in prison for decades before they even let anybody from the

embassy see them. Now, that's what we need to do here. We need to make people who come here as visitors, tourists, or potential citizens terrified to break the law because they know there's going to be repercussions. But instead, it kind of seems like a free-for-all amusement park over in the United States, right? Whereas if you go to a different country, like I wouldn't go to Venezuela and break the law because I'd probably end up at the bottom of a hole, murdered, honestly. You don't know what could happen. They make it very clear in certain countries, if you come here and mess things up or cause trouble, it's not going to go well for you. So I think there needs to be a little bit of that. And I don't think that it's wrong to scare people away from breaking the law in a country that is not their home yet. Or, I mean, even if it is their home, we should have some sort of, like you said, deterrent to committing illegal crimes. Yeah. It's too easy to get in the country and kind of disappear right now. It's too easy.

Well, our thoughts are definitely with Lake and Riley's family and obviously the community surrounding UGA and obviously the entire country, because I think it really does shake up everybody, but specifically her family. Again, your daughter's at school, getting a college degree, doing the right thing, out for a run, and this happens. It's just, it's, I can't even imagine. I really can't even imagine it. And we're thinking of them, we're supporting them, and we're hoping that something comes from this. I don't want it to be a political issue because that's, Lakin's life is worth more than that.

But I really do hope that it resonates with people who can make decisions on both sides of the aisle to say, hey, let's put our differences aside and do what's right for all the Lakin Rileys of our country who are out there and scared and wondering if this could happen to them. So that's where I'm at tonight. Any final words from you before we wrap this bad boy up? No, I just feel,

I feel terrible. You know, she's a nursing student. She's just going out for a jog. She's trying to go to school, you know, keep healthy. Yep.

She has a loving family. And then, yeah. And you know, a law abiding citizen. And then she's just, she's gone for no other reason than the desire of one man to have her for whatever he wanted for a short term. And then he just ended her life as if she was nothing, as if she was garbage, as if she didn't matter. So honestly, I hope he fries. I really do. I hope we don't do some stupid, like, let's just send him back to his country. Oh, no, no. He's here for life. If he gets found guilty, he's here. He's here for life. He's, yeah, he will not be deported. He'll be spending his life in prison in a United States cell somewhere. And I will also say it because I don't want this to be a political thing. And I don't

want, I don't think that this should be a, I don't think it should be a split issue. This is a common sensical thing. Yeah. I mean, like I said, my father and all of his family members are immigrants. And I will tell you that the people who come here and get their citizenship and go about the right routes, they feel the same way as we do because they did it right. And it's a pain in the ass, right? All the paperwork and having to go back and forth. But they did it because they wanted to take pride in being a citizen of the United States. They wanted to pay taxes. They wanted to be held to the laws and also reap the benefits of being a person who lives in the United States and calls it home. So they don't like this

stuff either because it does. It casts a really bad light on for people who look at things in a very blanketed, generalized sort of way. They may look at somebody coming in who's from a different country and say, oh, immigrants, terrible. Like they're causing. So it casts a bad light on everybody who's trying to come here to start a new life when that's obviously not the case. But still, when things happen in such high quantities, people who tend to generalize will go in that direction. And so whether you're a citizen by birth or you're a citizen because you came here and you took the right path and you did the right thing, none of us want people coming in here who are ghosts to be threatening our families, ourselves, our children, or any innocent person who's just going to school and jogging and trying to live a good life. Nobody should want that. So

I don't think it's a hot take. I don't know. It shouldn't be a controversial opinion. And I don't think that we should be split on this. I don't think any person should be split on this. Don't come into the country. Don't live in the country, legal or illegal, and murder people. Don't do that. That's it. Yeah, that's a start. For me, I hope I've made it clear so far, but if I haven't, I'll reiterate. I'm not even villainizing people who are attempting to come here illegally. Obviously, I don't want them doing that. I'm more frustrated and upset that we're aware this is happening and we're creating a system where indirectly we're incentivizing them to do it. And when they get here, because we're

overrun with how many we have coming in, we're unable to properly process and vet them individually to ensure that when we're releasing them, we know who we're releasing into this country. So I'm more mad about that than people are always going to come here. You know, it's just going to happen regardless. You could do whatever you want. You could have, you know, guns pointing at the, you know, the borders is people are still going to come here because some people really need it and risking their life is more worth it than staying where they are. I don't know what that feels like.

So I'm not, that's fine. We can't change that, but we can change how we process it and how we deal with it when it does happen. And we're doing it wrong right now. And it's, again, it's a bigger issue. So for me, Lakin's death and a lot of the things going on in this country are at the feet of the decision makers of our country, not necessarily the people who are trying to come here.

We can't really control that. Yeah, the decision makers aren't great at making decisions. No, exactly. But we can, as a country, control how we're handling it, how we're processing it. And it's a bigger issue for a bigger day. What do we know? We're just this little true crime podcast, but we are parents and we are people who walk and talk and live in this country just like everybody else. And we go to the grocery stores and the library and public events. And we have family members and friends who are in college. And, you know, it's just, it affects all of us equally. So we're thinking of Lakin's family. We're thinking of all of you out there.

Obviously, everyone stay safe. And we will see you Friday for audio with Roden Family Massacre Part 2 or on YouTube on Sunday. Everyone have a good night. We'll see you soon. Bye.