Crime Weekly - S3 Ep213: Crime Weekly News: A Cruise Ship Conversation

Episode Date: June 5, 2024

This week we're taking a break from our last deep dive to have a short talk on a very popular vacation attraction : Cruise Ships. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod   

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and take your business to the next level. Visit Upwork.com right now and post your job for free. That's Upwork.com to post your job for free and connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Upwork dot com. Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Crime Weekly News. I'm Derek Levasseur. And I'm Stephanie Harlow. And we're going to change it up a little bit tonight because it seems like it's always doom and gloom on this channel. And we want to do a little bit more of a safety episode where we talk about something that many of us experience, if we're lucky enough, cruise ship, although that may change later this year. We're currently talking about going on the CrimeCon cruise. Actually, tentatively, we might do it. We don't know yet. We'll see what happens. But we're talking about the safety of it because it's something that many people do every single year. We have a lot of statistics tonight, but there's over 31 million people

that take a cruise ship every year. So it's probably gone up since then because that was last year. So a lot of people are going on cruises and we do hear about incidences where people are injured or assaulted or go missing. And it brought up a question, are cruise ships safe? Nope, they're not safe. No one's ever seen the Titanic. So there's one opinion right there. And the reason that this whole question came up is because on May 7th, a cruise ship worker on a Norwegian Encore going from Vancouver to Alaska allegedly attacked a woman and two security guards with a pair of scissors while on board. This is according to the Associated Press. This individual was later arrested by the

FBI. Now you hear this and you think, oh my God, that's terrible. And then like you said, Stephanie, we hear about these stories where people get on a cruise ship and they go missing and they're never heard from again. And then there are homicides that occur on cruise ships as well. Sexual assaults. Sexual assaults, a lot of them. Sexual assaults, absolutely. The question is how many and where does that fall as far as what's the possibility that could happen to you? people who love cruises, who prefer cruises over going to foreign countries, because as we know, some countries that you go to can be very dangerous as well, especially not knowing- I'm scared of it all. You're scared of it all. So we wanted to change it up a little bit tonight,

maybe give some recommendations, but also go over some of the statistics. And we're going to be referring to an article that was done by Oxygen that you can see here where they talked about this. And it's a really great article because they brought in an expert. His name is Dr. James Fox. He's a professor of criminology, law, and public policy at Northeastern University. And we'll start it off very quickly. The short answer, are cruise ships safe, according to him? And this is his quote.

They're very safe. the short answer, are cruise ships safe? According to him, and this is his quote, they're very safe. But we'll give you the stats and you can weigh in on it and let us know what you think. I feel like when I was looking at one of these disappearances and I think it was, I forget, it was she worked for, I think she worked for Disney, but she disappeared from the cruise ship. We still don't know where she is. And that's when I read statistics then, which basically states that cruise ships are lawless. They're just lawless cities floating in the middle of the ocean because there's no jurisdiction, right? It's not technically American jurisdiction, and it's not going to be the jurisdiction of any of the countries you're going to, and you're in the middle of the water. So maybe it would be the jurisdiction of whoever that water belongs to,

but those people don't want to deal with it. So you go missing, no one's really looking for you. Yeah, but they have their own investigators right on the boat as well. And I do think- And do you think that they might have an interest in protecting the cruise ship though? Okay. Yeah. I mean, yes, you can go there, but I will also say that when we talk about crimes of opportunity, I do think for the offenders, they're less likely to potentially do it on a cruise ship because once you commit the crime, there's nowhere for you really to go. And I will say there's a lot of cameras and security surveillance there where they can track people down pretty easily after the fact. But like, yeah, you can't flee the state or the country after you do something like this. You're stuck on a boat. You absolutely could have flee the state or the

country. You just wait till you dock at one of your many stops and then you're boom in Mallorca. Of course. And you don't get back on the cruise ship. I'm saying if you're on the cruise ship in the middle of the ocean and you sexually assault someone and that person goes and reports you, they're not going to continue and they're not going to allow anybody to get off the boat until they go through what they need to go through, especially if it's been reported. They'll dock right out in the middle of the ocean, and they won't move it until they figure out what happened. They can prevent you from getting off. That's not true. When Amy Lynn Bradley went missing, and it was reported, they let people go on and off the boat at all. So yeah,

it's not good and they probably shouldn't be doing that, but it happens because there's really no rules. They just do what they want. I disagree that they will let them off the boat. If there's a sexual assault reported, they will have the FBI or whatever federal agency in charge. I'm not saying it happens all the time, but I can tell you there's been issues where there's a child that will go missing on a cruise ship and we're scheduled to dock and get off the boat. A child going missing on a cruise ship, I would say maybe would warrant on a cruise ship a little bit more action, but a sexual assault being reported on a cruise ship, they don't do anything.

This is coming from the girls never been on a cruise ship. I never knew because I've, because why do you think I haven't been? Because I've researched these cases. I never knew you were so idealistic. Let's go over some facts. Let's go over some facts here. Okay. Let's go over some facts. Let's go over some facts here. Okay. Let's talk about the data. It's indisputable. All right. This is the data from this one. As I said earlier, 31.7 million cruise ship passengers last year worldwide. And the odds

of dying on a cruise ship are one in 6.25 million. Now just for comparative sake, right, that's more dangerous than driving a car because the odds of dying in a car crash are about 1 in 645. I know that's what my mom tells me every time I say I'm afraid of flying. She's like, you're more likely to die in a car. And I'm like, thanks, mom. And we have some more stats here because the report looks at crime rates per 100,000 people. So according to Dr. Fox, the current findings are based on 2022. 2023 has not come out yet. So here's the categories they covered. Homicide, sexual assault, and aggravated assault. So first off, sexual assault, 24.4, which was up from 18.6 in 2017. So that basically means 24.4 people out of 100,000 people experienced sexual assault on a cruise ship, which one is one too many, right? Obviously. And that's up from 2017.

So we're not trending in the right direction. I will say that. Now, as far as land assaults are concerned, that was about 40 per 100,000 people, which is down from 2017, which was 41.7. So 40 people out of 100,000 compared to 24.4. So almost half as much on a cruise ship as you would find walking the streets of wherever you live. What do you think about that? It's not really like stacking up. There's not as many cruise ships. It's not like you can fit as many cruise ships into, it's not like you can fit as many people into a cruise ship as you can into like New York City. So once again, it's not super comparable, I think, but- There's more and more people on land is what you're saying?

More people on land, more opportunities. But like, think about a cruise ship. What is there to do on a cruise ship besides drink and hang around in a bathing suit? So you're taking people, you're putting them on a cruise ship. You're just letting them have as much alcohol as they want. Like, yes, these crimes are going to happen. And I think what you're missing is that so many of these crimes get covered up and they don't get reported. So these statistics are skewed. Now, am I over here saying like cruise ships suck? Nobody go on them? No. Just like anything else, you go and do something

at your own risk. If you go and take a trip to Italy, you're still going to be faced with things like pickpockets and crime and stuff like that. You know what you're going into and you should act accordingly. But for me personally, not only am I afraid of crime on a cruise ship, I'm afraid of something happening in the ocean, man. Okay. Give me all the murderers. I'll take them. But I don't want to hit an iceberg and be going down. The ocean scares me. And once again, just like a plane, I don't understand how the plane is in the air and

how it stays there. It doesn't feel like it should be happening. I don't understand how this big ass ship is on the water and not sinking. And anything could go wrong. You know, anything. You do make a valid point. There's more people on land than there are on cruise ships. And the statistics are skewed because they're underreported. Do you know how long it's been that cruise ship assault statistics have been published when they started doing that?

I don't. 2010. Okay. Since 2015, sexual assault has been the most reported crime on cruise ships, with more than 450 cases reported between 2015 and 2022. While that number is high, a new report by the U.S. Department of Transportation found that cruise ship sexual assault reports to the to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, close to two-thirds of cases go unreported. While some sex crime cases made it to court, many have settled outside of it. They will do anything to keep victims quiet. Ross Klein, a professor at Memorial University of Newfoundland, told Insider about the cruise ship companies. They'll try to get freebies. They'll try to give a nicer cabin. They'll do what they can to make a person feel better. So also they do say like, yes, cruise ships are much safer than land and cruise lines face more robust civil liability in court under maritime law than do businesses on land, et cetera, et cetera. But the point is like you just because they're lawless, because there's just they're not lawless.

They kind of are. They have their own laws, though. Like you can't have the same people arresting and prosecuting. And like, you know, like there's no chain of command. There's no checks and balances. It's just like the same people are investigating and prosecuting and deciding whether or not to to go forward or how they're gonna handle these things and so there's another article just from last year and it says a horrifying report is shedding light on one of the darkest secrets in the cruise line industry sexual assaults a quarter of which are committed by cruise company employees

working as crew members and look into the fact that they don't do any robust background checks on the people they have they have people coming from all over the world and sometimes these people come, they work, and then they leave and disappear. Nobody knows what happened to them. And they're not doing great background checks. And I remember this, it was Rebecca Coriam. That's who it was. She went missing on a cruise ship. And her parents were like, listen, our kid went missing. They still haven't found her. They don't know what happened to her. And the cruise line was like, oh, what can we do to make this better? And they were offering them all sorts of stuff. And they were like, no, we want you to investigate. And they're like, well, it took days before anybody even came

on board to investigate. Nobody wanted to take claim of the investigation. And it says in dozens of court documents, cruise ship passengers say they've been dragged into cabins and raped, pushed into janitor's closets and assaulted and even attacked in the public corridors of ships. Likewise, parents and guardians have alleged that their children were molested by other passengers or crew members, plied with alcohol, and in some instances, abused by daycare staffers at onboard activity centers. As recently as two weeks ago, the parents of a 17-year-old passenger filed a civil suit alleging she was raped by a fitness instructor onboard a Carnival cruise ship. In fact, sexual assault is the most prevalent reported crime on cruise ships. And like, yeah, you can say, oh, it's not that it's not as much as you would be on land. But the whole point is you're on vacation. You're supposed to be able to let your hair down, have a couple of drinks, relax. And you're not supposed to have to worry about this stuff.

It's like going to worry about it anywhere. It's like going to a resort. Well, you're not supposed to have to worry about it anywhere. Well, but you do, right? But the whole point is you're paying a crap ton of money to be like, I'm going to drink and put my feet up and lay by the pool. I shouldn't have to worry. I'm not on the streets of New York City or Boston or LA.

I shouldn't have to worry about this stuff. I'm paying money to be able to escape. There should be security measures taken. There should be better background checks done. The whole point is you go into a vacation mindset, you're not as vigilant. Now, maybe not you because you're always vigilant about everything, but most people are, I'm in vacation mode. I'm turning my brain off. And you should be able to do that when you're paying the money to do that. But cruise ships are a little like iffy for me. And even some of these resorts

and stuff, it's the same kind of thing. It's just, I don't know, like, is any place safe? No, but I'd rather be on land and not be safe than in the middle of the ocean. Because then somebody could just throw you overboard, right? Let's say they rape you. They don't want you to talk about it. Boop, you're over the board. Overboard, the whales and the sharks got you now. So I did not see this. This is good, though, because we completely disagree on this one. And that's why we're posing the question to you guys as well. Are cruise ships safe?

Clearly, Stephanie does not think they're safe. Dude, if we go on that CrimeCon cruise, I'm taking a leash and tying myself. You are not coming on the CrimeCon cruise with me. I've just decided that. If you go, I'm not going. Period. That's been decided. Come on. I'm being brave and I'm trying something new and you're not even going to support me? Good friend you are. I might throw you overboard. Good friend. I know you probably would. You're gone. Sorry. I don't know what happened to her. She must have had a cocktail and run off the back. Exactly. But what I would say is

from my own personal experience, based on the data and you can bring into the question the data itself. But every day? Yes, they are. And some of what might be for that cause is because on cruise ships, I can't speak to the background checks of employees and stuff. Stephanie's speaking about that. I don't know what type of background checks they're doing. I would think they're pretty extensive. But as far as the passengers are concerned, just from my own experience, it's very difficult to get on a cruise ship if you don't have the proper documentation. They will turn you away, especially if you're going to another country. You have to have your passport for you, your family, your children have to have their

birth certificates, their documentation as well. And all of those passengers are being screened. And anybody who's been on a boat knows what you go through. Metal detectors, you're searched, your bags are searched. So it's harder to get weapons on board as well. So we really want to hear your opinion on it. Clearly there's dissenting opinions from Stephanie and I, but that's a good thing. We don't necessarily agree. What do you guys think in the comments? Are you someone who says absolutely not, cruises are not for me for whatever reason? Give us your opinions in the comments section. Or are you someone who says, listen, you can get hurt anywhere. It's about common sense when you go on these cruise lines or anywhere else for that matter.

You got to be aware of your surroundings, travel in groups, be aware of the people that's interacting with you, try to not over drink so that you're still able to make conscious decisions. All that good stuff. How do you fall on this one? Let us know what you think. We want to hear it. I think it's going to be madness in the comments, but I'm looking forward to it. Any final words from you, Stephanie?

No. No. I'm going on the CrimeCon cruise and so are you. Stephanie will be at the CrimeCon cruise. No, Derek, we're both going to be there. Derek will not. Apparently they're too scary for everybody. It doesn't make any sense that you would be the one to not go when I'm the one that's scared.

I just don't want to hear you the whole time complaining about how unsafe it is. I won't say anything. I'll just be terrified inside. Okay. Well, we appreciate you guys being here. Everyone stay safe out there. We will see you later this week with a new case. It's going to be a good one.

We're looking forward to getting into that. So we'll talk to you soon. Stay safe out there. Have a good night.