Crime Weekly - S3 Ep244: Dee Dee Blanchard: Gypsy and Nicholas Want Out (Part 3)

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

A small, quiet town in Missouri. A devoted mother caring for her chronically ill daughter. A story of love, sacrifice, and survival. Or so it seemed. But behind closed doors, beneath the layers of sympathy and kindness, there was a dark secret waiting to be uncovered. For nearly two decades Dee Dee Blanchard told the world that her daughter, Gypsy Rose, was dying. Leukemia, muscular dystrophy, seizures, vision and hearing issues, the list of illnesses and medical concerns was endless. Gypsy, a seemingly happy little girl with a huge smile, was bound to a wheelchair, fed through a tube, and showered with the attention and support of everyone around her, but no one really knew the horrifying truth. It seemed that Gypsy was perfectly healthy. She could walk. She didn't need a wheelchair to get around, and it appeared that she was being kept a prisoner in her own body, in her own home, by her own mother. The story goes that years of abuse, manipulation, and lies built up until they all came crashing down in the most unthinkable way: Murder. On the night of June 14, 2015, Dee Dee Blanchard was found stabbed to death in her home, and the prime suspect? Dee-Dee's innocent, smiling, happy, and allegedly disabled daughter, along with the man that Gypsy had been having a very adult relationship with. But nothing about this case is as it appears to be. This is the story of Gypsy Rose and Dee Dee Blanchard. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. MintMobile.com/CrimeWeekly - Get a 3-month Premium Plan for just $15 a month! 2. Prose.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 50% off your first subscription order and a free in-depth hair consultation today! 3. EatIQBAR.com - Text WEEKLY to 64000 for 20% off ALL IQBAR products and FREE shipping! 4. SKIMS.com/CrimeWeekly - Now available in 62 sizes! Select our podcast after you order to let them know we sent you! 5. HelloFresh.com/FreeCrimeWeekly - Use code FREECRIMEWEEKLY for FREE breakfast for life!

Bettering your business takes working with the best. With the James Hardy Alliance, you gain access to leads, training, networking, and support from the number one brand of siding in North America. Achieve new levels of success by joining the James Hardy Alliance today. Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So we're going into part three of the Dee Dee Blanchard, Gypsy Rose Blanchard case. I kind of want to do something a little different where I'm going to tell you what I'm going to focus on, what we're going to focus on this episode, which is basically Gypsy. We've already talked about her childhood. We've talked about even Dee Dee Blanchard's childhood. We talked about the

dynamics of Gypsy growing up with Dee Dee, what it was like with her father leaving, that kind of relationship being fractured, Dee Dee isolating Gypsy from everybody, moving all the way to Springfield, Missouri, eventually away from Louisiana and all the family unit they had there. And then kind of getting in with the hospital and the doctors there, Habitat for Humanity. They kind of have their own little community now that they've built that does not include any biological family, but lots of supportive individuals. And then we went over Gypsy's medical records last episode with Fancy Maselli, who obviously is very passionate about this case. And now today, we're going to talk about Gypsy Rose meeting Nicholas Godejohn. But

Nicholas Godejohn isn't the first man that Gypsy Rose meets, allegedly falls in love with, and believes that he is her prince charming. And we're going to touch on that a little bit as well. And eventually, we're going to go into the portion of Gypsy Rose's life where she decides her mother can't live anymore. It's either Didi or Gypsy. And Gypsy feels and begins to believe that the world cannot, she can't exist in the world while her mother does as well, that there's going to have to be a decision made between them. And then she and Nicholas Godejohn begin to discuss this plan to take the life of Didi Blanchard. Now, I want to talk about this, and we're going to go over some of the Facebook messages

that they exchanged, Nicholas and Gypsy, because Gypsy Rose is later going to claim that Nicholas Godejohn manipulated her and sort of took control of her mind and that there was uneven power dynamics there. Nicholas Godejohn is going to claim the same, basically, of Gypsy, that she lied and she manipulated him and she created him into the perfect Patsy to help her kill her mother so that her hands would be clean.

And he's going to say that she did this using, you know, not only sex, but just the attachment and the promise of having a person in life, which was something he desperately wanted. So we are going to go over that and we're going to kind of decide what we feel. Did Nicholas manipulate Gypsy? Did Gypsy manipulate Nicholas? Was there manipulation going on on both ends? And is there a world that exists where these people just used each other for their own means? And that's kind of what we're talking about today. I got a few things to say because I definitely want to address last week's episode because with this series,

as expected, it's getting a lot of views, a lot of listens, and a lot of opinions. Opinions from people who don't normally follow Crime Weekly. There's new eyes and ears on this. I think I said that last week. Minor mistake on my part with the production of the episode last week, because as I'm chopping it up and figuring out what we need to have in there as I'm listening or watching back the episode, there was an assumption on my part as I'm looking at the whole interview thinking because Fancy was recommended to us that most people know her backstory, know who she is. So a lot of that didn't get into the episode because we figured, hey, listen, most people already know who she is and we don't want to make this episode three hours. context to that and this is fancy's perspective there was an agreement at some point that fancy and the blanchards including gypsy they were going to work together to develop some type of media some type of docu-series whatever there's some some projects some media projects and

fancy was able to sit down and speak with them and personally get to interact with them and according to fancy now this is Fancy's opinion and this is her perspective. Once they started turning over all the medical documents and everything that they had, as she was reviewing everything, she started to change her opinion on who was at fault. Initially, she was on Team Gypsy. She was close with Gypsy and felt like Gypsy was the victim here. But then as she started to dive into the details, she felt differently and didn't want to work with them. And we knew this going into it that there was some litigation. The Blanchard sued Fancy and it was dismissed.

But the reason why we had her on was because she had firsthand knowledge of her experience with Gypsy Rose and the Blanchards. And that's how she got access to those documents. So we wanted her opinion on it. That said, we said it in the episode and I'll say it again right here. When you have an opinion on something, I feel it's important to hear the other side. I think this can be applied to a lot of things, even though you may not necessarily agree with it because otherwise all you're creating is an echo chamber. We were not asking anyone to agree with Fancy or try to convince them that what Fancy was saying is right, but it's her perspective. It's her opinion and her opinion is shared by a lot of people. So all I would say moving forward

is take what Fancy had to say, note it, maybe you disregard it, but we're also going to have other sides in here. But there's already been a lot of the other side told with Gypsy. That was the narrative for a very long time. It wasn't until very recently that that started to change. So we're trying to give things that you guys haven't heard yet. But all that being said, I want to make clear that everyone knows I've already reached out to someone who has agreed to do the show, who had involvement with this case, who dealt with gypsy and has a different perspective, right? Uh, and, uh, a medical expert in that, in that regard. And just to be completely transparent, I reached out to Gypsy. I reached out to Gypsy. I emailed her email. I explained who So by no means are we trying to create a narrative to support what we personally believe, because as you guys know, I have no opinion on it. I'm just coming into it fresh with you guys, with some of you at least, and I'm going along for the ride. So I don't really have any skin in the game as far as where I fall. I want to hear all sides. And I even said at the end of the interview

with Fancy that it was clear to me that she does have a bias. There's no doubt about it. They had a relationship, meaning the Blanchards and Fancy, something clearly didn't go right. And there's bad blood there. There's no doubt about it. So I approached that interview and I left that interview with that understanding, but I'm still going to listen to the information she told as far as the medical information that was reported. Maybe not necessarily her opinions on those medical records. She's not an expert, as many of you pointed out, she's not a physician, but I still think it's important to hear that side. And I think it's important for the series to hear all sides so that you can come to your own informed conclusion.

Whatever that is, that's up to you. But I love the engagement. I love the fact that people are interacting in the comments. I love the fact that for the most part, it's a healthy debate. And I think everyone should just take it for what it is. Hearing different perspectives from people who have been involved with this case in some way or another. And this series is far from over. As Stephanie said at the top of this series, we're going to go through it. You just

got to bear with us. We're going to do different episodes on this where one side may agree and the other one won't. Conversely, as we go two episodes later, the sides might switch and that's what it should be. Healthy debate. It's one of those things where, you know, the information's presented to you. You decide what you do with it. You decide where it fits and how you feel about it. We're not saying everything unequivocally without doubt is true, but we have to investigate and you investigate with us. We're on this path together and we appreciate you guys hanging in there. And we do appreciate the discourse. It is great. I love reading it. That's what it's supposed to be. We're on this path together and we appreciate you guys hanging in there. And we do appreciate the discourse. It is great. I love, I love reading it. That's what it's supposed to be. We're not, we're not, we're not, we don't have an agenda. We're going, we're going through it. We're going

to hear different perspectives. Our agenda is to learn, to discover. That's it. My, I'm not relying on Fancy Maselli for the, the medical. We're not relying on anybody for any one person for, for the answers here. And I am the person that I did reach out to has committed to do it, but I don't want to put their name out there in case they back out. But they are a medical physician. They are a psychologist. So we'll see if they come through and they come on. We'll see if they're and they were directly involved in this case, not just someone who's analyzed it from afar. So we'll see how it goes.

We're going to go through it. Thanks for being here with us. And let's how it goes. We're going to go through it. Thanks for being here with us. And let's keep it rolling. We're going to dive right in then. And we're kind of going to pick up with that 2010 time period. And Gypsy talked a lot after the death of her mother. She talked a lot after her imprisonment. She's been talking a lot of her mother. She talked a lot after her imprisonment. She's been talking a lot

after her release. And so there's tons of sources to pull from to get Gypsy's side and her take. And obviously, we know, anyone who's a parent knows that most parents want to keep their children young and innocent for as long as possible. We know what the world holds. We know being adult isn't as fun as we thought it was when we were kids. And so we have this desire to just allow our kids to be kids for as long as possible. But according to Gypsy Rose Blanchard, her mother, Dee Dee, took this to an extreme. Gypsy claimed that throughout her life, and even as a grown woman, she would be forced to bathe with her mother. And during these baths, Dee Dee would shave Gypsy, shave her in the places that a, the private places that a woman grows hair my mother would shave me, she'd call it making me clean. I think that the childhood sexual abuse she endured and the hints of Munchausen syndrome by proxy my maternal grandmother exhibited

resulted in my mother needing her little girl to be clean. Please do not mistake this as me trying to play Freud. I've just examined very deeply how all of this might have seemed from my mother's perspective. My mother's first betrayal by her own father was exacerbated by her husband, my father, asking for a divorce. And here I was, the third person, closer than close to her, that would betray her too. First, by trying to run away, and then just pulling away because I wanted to grow up. And then when the murder happened." What did Gypsy mean when she said she wanted to grow up. And then when the murder happened, end quote. What did Gypsy mean when she said she wanted to grow up? Well, first of all, before I talk about that, I want

to say that according to Gypsy Rose, not only did she bathe with her mother, but she slept in the same bed as her mother. They basically spent all day and all night together. And Gypsy's pretty much saying, my mother wanted to keep me childlike, which is the reason she gives for why she kind of speaks and acts in the way that she does, even to this day, so long after her mother is no longer around. So now let's talk about what did Gypsy mean when she says she wants to grow up? So Gypsy feels that Dee Dee orchestrated their lives so that she, Gypsy, would be completely dependent on her. So Dee Dee did the cooking, the cleaning, basically made it so that Gypsy would never be able to live independently. And Gypsy claims that from the time she can remember, Dee Dee told her, listen, there's things in your life you're just never going to be able to do because you're sick, because

you are who you are. And those things would be the basic normal things that all of us just expect to happen in life. Having a normal relationship, getting married, having children, holding a full time job, things that most of us take for granted. But there are some people in certain situations in life that can't necessarily engage in all of these things. And DeeDee was trying to tell Gypsy, you're one of those people, this is not in the cards for you. And I can see right there how that in and of itself is a form of child abuse, right? She's trying to hinder her ability to grow. A lot of times when we hear the word child abuse, we're thinking of something a lot more egregious, but there's different forms of it. It can be just verbally, emotionally abusive. And by hindering her, by holding her back, by misinforming her, by trying to groom her in a way to believe that she's less than or that she's incapable of doing these things

on her own for her own self-serving reasons, being Dee Dee, that is a form of child abuse. And I can see how as Gypsy's getting older and starting to think more independently, she's able to step back and see that maybe some of the things that her mom has been doing or restricting her from doing is not necessarily for Gypsy, but more for her mom. And as you get older and you talk to other people and you start to hear outside opinions that can also have an influence on you, you start to think for yourself. And maybe this is where Dee Dee starts to get a little bit more aggressive with her behavior because she can start to feel the pushback from Gypsy. And I mean, you know, we talk about was Gypsy a liar?

Was she manipulative? Those questions don't really need to be asked. She's admitted to being a liar. She's admitted to being manipulative. We know she was. And even Nicholas Godejohn, in the wake of Dee Dee Blanchard's murder, when he was asked, you know, what was Gypsy's role and how involved was she? He said, quote, I did feel that she was not taking responsibility for her actions, but at the same time, due to the way I know she was raised, I can't blame her. End quote. So even he acknowledges and understands, like, what do we expect somebody to become when all they know is this, lying, manipulation, deceit? What do you kind of expect from them? Which is a tough concept to sort of wrap our head around, right? Yeah. We want to believe her, but at the same time, we're skeptical of everything because of her own admissions. It's a tough dynamic to kind of balance and figure out where do you want to fall on this one. Before we continue, let's take our first break. So we're back. And obviously, we know one of the main claims

that Gypsy makes is that her mother, Dee Dee, lied to her about her age. And even when we saw her in the police interrogation footage, and this comes back to her lying, she's telling the police officer, oh, I'm 19. And I know that there's different years for my birthdates, but no, I'm 19. Now, at that point, she knew exactly how old she was. And she's even admitted that one day, and it was in 2010, she stumbled upon her Medicaid card. And the Medicaid card at that time showed that she was actually 19. Now, this was in 2010. She's arrested in 2015, and she's still telling the police the wrong age. And Gypsy claims this whole time that she was actually 19, she thought she was 15. Now, this was also the same time that

Dee Dee and Gypsy started going to VisionCon. All right, we're back at VisionCon for the second time ever. They actually invited us back, and we're back at VisionCon for the second time ever. They actually invited us back, and we're here to see all kinds of different stuff. We never know what's going to happen. There may be a small Captain America. That's the sort of stuff you see at VisionCon. Hello. Hi.

It's a lovely costume. Thank you. Very nice. I'm party wig. Sweet. So that clip, it's more of a video clip. If you're listening on audio, you should probably come over to the YouTube video and check out the clip. But for anybody who can't go over and watch it, essentially all it is is a clip from VisionCon where you see Gypsy in a costume in a wheelchair and DeeDee is pushing her around.

That's essentially the clip. So originally founded in 1990, VisionCon is Southwest Missouri's premier pop culture convention featuring comic books, science fiction, fantasy, cosplay, live action, role playing, gaming and more. And Gypsy said that one night at VisionCon in 2010, when her mother was a few feet away, a man bumped into her and he apologized. But she thought this man, whose name ended up being Dan Glidewell, She thought he was handsome. So after bumping into each other at the convention, Dan sent Gypsy a friend request on Facebook, and she accepted. They started messaging back and forth. Now Gypsy said that she thought Dan Glidewell was her knight in shining armor, the man who was going to come and take her away from it all. And so Gypsy, remember, who allegedly thought she was 15 at this time, began a relationship with a 36-year-old man. She claimed that as they talked, she began to share more and more about her life, and Dan

ended up being the first person she confided in that she could actually walk and she didn't need her wheelchair. Now, during the trial, the defense would call Dan Glidewell to the stand to testify, and he claimed that after VisionCon, he and Gypsy stayed in contact via video chat. He said that he was told that Dee Dee, Gypsy's mother, made Gypsy stay in her wheelchair, and she subjected her to unnecessary medical treatment. He also said that their relationship went from being a friendship to being sexual. They would role play, they would send explicit videos to each other, and she would send him nude photos or dress up in costumes. Now, this is very important

because later Gypsy herself is going to make a lot of claims to law enforcement, in court, to the public at large. And one of these claims would revolve around kind of this whole concept here. She said Nicholas Godijohn was the first person she'd opened up to and admitted being able to walk to. She also claims that Nicholas Godejohn was the one who introduced her to the world of BDSM and role-playing. She is very explicit about this. She said that he needed to be dominant over her, that he brought, she was completely innocent, this little lamb in the woods, not sexually open to any of this stuff. And Nicholas Godejohn comes in with this role playing and dressing up in different

costumes and her being submissive and him being dominant and this whole BDSM thing. But Dan Glidewell's testimony shows that Gypsy Rose was engaging in this type of behavior before she had even met Nicholas Godejohn. So that's important, I think. The fact of the matter is Gypsy Rose, and you hear her in many interviews, said, I met Nicholas Godejohn. I thought he was my Prince Charming, the one who was going to take me away from it all. I met Nicholas Godejohn, and he was the first person I felt comfortable telling the truth to that I could walk. She says, I met Nicholas Godejohn and he introduces me to this wild sex world of BDSM and role-playing and I'm wearing wigs and dressing up in different costumes and using different aliases. And Nicholas Godejohn is the one who introduced me to this.

And this goes into the manipulation of her because he sexually manipulated her and was dominant over her. But she's done and said all of this stuff about Dan Glidewell already before she even knows who Nicholas Godejohn is. What do you make of that? Well, my first question is if it wasn't Nicholas Godejohn who introduced her to this world and were to believe Dan Glidewell that he was introduced to this by Gypsy, my question, my first question would be, where did she learn it from? Well, she's going to VisionCon, right? So- It's a big jump though, right?

From VisionCon to cosplay to BDSM. Yeah, from VisionCon to BDSM, yeah. But I'm not making that jump necessarily. I'm saying Gypsy always had this thing about dressing up, right? Because, and since she was a little girl, when have we seen her on stage? What's she wearing? Princess costumes, Disney costumes. She had this thing, every time she goes to Disney World, she's dressed in a princess costume. And she had this fairy tale sort of delusion going, where

she was the princess and trapped in the tower from Tangled and Rapunzel and the Wicked Mothers keeping her there. And so she always had this kind of aspect. And now you go to VisionCon and yeah, there's cosplaying and dressing up. And if you're a young girl and you're coming into your own sexually, you may, yes, mesh those two things together, right? Cosplay often does, I think, turn into a sort of role-playing fantasy type situation. Yeah. Especially if you're partners into that as well. Yeah. If you're grownups and you're into cosplay and fantasy and things like that, it makes sense that your sexual relationship might mirror what your interests are in real life. Okay. Let me ask you this because I don't think it's any secret that you've

researched this case extensively. You've started to develop opinions on DeeDee and Gypsy. And I think it's fair for me to say at this point that you're not opinions on Didi and Gypsy. And I think it's fair for me to say at this point that you're not a big believer in what Gypsy has to say. That's based on your research. It's not just some uninformed opinion. And maybe that'll change. But let me ask you this. We know at this point when she's talking to Dan Glidewell that she has not murdered her mother yet. And she's already indicating that her mother is forcing her to do certain things to create this illusion. Now, if she had only said this after killing her mother, I think the argument is very simple.

She's saying this now in hindsight because she's trying to create a defense for the murder. Do you look at this and now hearing her saying this well before the murder itself and say, okay, maybe there is some validity to this because she was talking about this way before she ever conspired to kill her mother. First of all, me not being a believer in what Gypsy has to say does not mean that I don't believe that she was abused. Oh, of course. Of course. Me not being a big believer in what Gypsy has to say comes from the fact that she talks so much and has contradicted herself so many times and has been caught in straight lies so many times that I don't suggest anybody believe what she has to say unequivocally without questioning it. I don't suggest that anybody believe anything that anyone has to say

unequivocally without questioning it. Because we definitely, once again, I think we both agree. There's not a world that exists where Dee Dee did not manipulate and mentally or emotionally abuse this girl from a young age. But at what point did Gypsy realize what was going on? Well, you'd think when she figured out she could walk this whole time. And she says this, I always knew I could walk. I always knew I could walk. And then when she realizes, hey, I'm not 15, I'm 19. There's a lot happening here. There's a lot happening where she's discovering the truth. And she now has the ability to break free from the reality that her mother's created for her because she's seeing very clearly that's not reality. So where does it come in when she finally realizes this woman's lying to me and I don't have to be under her control any longer? You said a lot there, but I think

the biggest takeaway for me is two things can be true. You can be a pathological liar and still yet be a victim of abuse. Both can be true. And I think that's important to state. So when Gypsy found out that she was actually 19, she claims her first thought was, hey, now I can actually be with Dan in a sexual way because she was of the legal age to do so. So Dan and Gypsy made a plan where Gypsy would run away from home and then they would live happily ever after on Dan's Arkansas farm that he allegedly had. So at 2 a.m. one night, Gypsy snuck out of her Springfield house. She hitchhiked to a meeting point, which ended up being the home of a friend of Dan's. And when Gypsy arrived, she claims Dan was there and he was like, hey, guess what? There is no farm in Arkansas. I'm on parole. I'm not allowed to leave the state. But she doesn't leave.

She stays. She stays. They get in bed together. And then obviously when Dee Dee found out that Gypsy had fled the facility, she checked the computer that they shared. She saw the messages between Gypsy and Dan, and then she contacted Mutual Vision Conference to figure out where Gypsy was, who Dan was, where they could find him, et cetera. And so at that time, Dee Dee figures out where Gypsy's at. She shows up to the house where Gypsy's hiding. In the prison confessions of Gypsy Rose, Gypsy Rose said, quote, it's about eight o'clock in the morning. She arrives at the door. And at this point, me and him are sleeping. His friend was like, your mother's here. And my heart just sinks to the ground. And I see her walk in the door. The first thing I say to her is, I know I'm 19. I can be here if I want to, end quote. So Gypsy

claims that Dee Dee was like, okay, where's the pills? Where's my pills? Because Gypsy had stolen her mother's pain pills. So Gypsy gives Dee Dee her pain pills. And then Dee Dee's like, okay, where's my money? And Gypsy's like, well, I stole $1,000 in my mother's wallet. So she gave her mother her wallet. And then Dee Dee's like, hey, can we talk for a minute?

So they go outside. They sit on the front porch, they're talking, and Gypsy claims that her mother promised she could keep seeing Dan if she only went home with her. Now at that point, Gypsy's like, I believed her, you know? And when we were driving home in the car, I was still confronting her. I was like, why'd you lie to me about my age? And she claims that Dee Dee pulled over somewhere, went in, and came out with a birth certificate that showed Gypsy like, oh no, you're not 19, you're 15. And Gypsy was asked in the documentary, well, what do you think she did to change this birth certificate? And Gypsy says, I think she probably used Whiteout or something, which I think would be pretty clear on the birth certificate if Whiteout was used to even a 15 year old or a 19

year old but apparently gypsy said that at that point with this doctored birth certificate in front of her even though she'd seen her medicaid card she was like okay i believed that i was 15 again i mean it's also possible she did some type of minor photo editing on a site reprinted something also possible they get home And this is when Gypsy claims her mother just went back on everything she said and made her a prisoner for two weeks by chaining her to a bed with a dog collar and actual chains. So Gypsy said that Dee Dee smashed her computer and her cell phone, made her take a pregnancy test, and then bought a gun. And Gypsy said this scared the ever-loving F out of her, this gun that Dee Dee had bought. And about this alleged two weeks of

being chained to the bed, Gypsy said, quote, the dog leash was connected to her, so anytime that I would move, she would feel me move. And if she was asleep and I would move, she would wake up. I was at her mercy for everything. So to go to the bathroom for food as a punishment, she would not feed me every day, and she would eat whatever she wanted, so there was these things that she would do that was almost taunting. My mother never laid a hand on me

until my attempt to run away. Anything she found displeasing, she would hit me, and it would either be with a coat hanger, with her hand, she would punch my leg in the thigh. For two weeks, I tried to gain more of her trust. A lot of begging on my part. I promise I won't do it again. I'll be good. I'll never talk to Dan again. To the point where she believed me enough to start allowing me little freedoms like going to the bathroom on my own, taking a bath on my own. So leaving her sight for

small amounts of time until she took me off the chain completely. After this attempt, she was very sensitive to me when I would move in the bed and and she kept a knife by her bedside table, and she threatened me that if I was to attempt to run away, I would be punished for it, end quote. So I think it's interesting. She says it took two weeks, and she started gaining back her trust, and then she was allowed to go to the bathroom alone, take a bath alone, even though according to Gypsy, she was not allowed to bathe alone. Her mother always bathed with her and slept with her. But now even after running away and completely losing all her mother's trust, now her mother's allowing her to bathe alone. Once again, this could just be a recollection issue. Is there any evidence or proof that Gypsy Rose was chained to a bed with chains and a dog leash

for two weeks? Beside her word, no, there's not. There's no proof to confirm it happened. There's also no proof to confirm it didn't. That's really where we land on. The party line for this entire case. Pretty much, yeah. Once again, we just had a case out of, I think, Utah that eight passengers, YouTube mom, I don't know if you're how familiar you are with it because it was huge in the news. We covered it. Yes. Remember Ruby Frankie? We covered it on Crime Weekly News, but I don't know how familiar you are with what she did to her kids. And she did something similar to her son who tried to run away, like basically made him sleep next to her so she would feel him move if he tried to run away again. This does happen. We know this does happen. Of course. But these stories are not being told until after Dee Dee's murder.

So Gypsy could have easily just gone into prison, taken advantage of the prison library, which we know she did. Look up this stuff. Look up Munchausen by proxy. Look up kind of what happens, what parents do, and then tailor her stories to match that. That could easily have happened as well. It's true. And if I'm playing the other side, you could make an argument that there are people who have testified that DeeDee did in fact show up to the house and pull her out with her. And it's not to the extreme that you're discussing, of course, but there are some indications that DeeDee was hovering over her and she was keeping

close tabs on her. It doesn't, you can't make the leap of, oh, she showed up at a house because she was with a man that Dee Dee didn't know to this happened. But I do think there is some indications that it's possible. That's all I'm saying. It's not, I'm not, I'm not hearing about Dee Dee's character for the first three episodes here and thinking this is out of the realm of possibility. That's all I'm saying. I completely agree. Let's take I'm saying. So Gypsy claims that Dee Dee printed out a picture of Gypsy, printed out a picture of Dan, and then Dee Dee went to the store and bought a mason jar and a cow tongue and then used all of these items to put a voodoo hex on her daughter. Dee Dee put the two pictures and the cow tongue in the mason jar with some of Gypsy's menstrual blood

and then buried it in the backyard, telling her daughter that she would never find love and she would never be happy. And even after being chained to the bed for two weeks, Gypsy claims that things were bad enough with Dee Dee that she still attempted to run away again the following year in 2011. This, Gypsy says, is when the relationship between her mother and herself irreparably broke and she knew she had to get out of the situation immediately. So allegedly, according to Gypsy, one day Dee Dee walked in on her packing a bag, and Dee Dee confronted her. She was like, you're not leaving again. You're not getting away. They began to argue. Gypsy said she grabbed the gun that her mother had bought. She pointed it at Dee Dee and pulled the trigger 10 times. It was only then that she realized it wasn't actually a

real gun, but a BB gun. And after this happened, Gypsy and Dee Dee told people that Dee Dee had been mugged in a Walmart parking lot, and that's how she'd gotten these BB gun injuries. And Gypsy says that her mother used this story to get more attention and sympathy from people. Now, Gypsy's going to be asked later, well, were you relieved when you realized that it wasn't a real gun and you hadn't killed your mother? And Gypsy said, yes, but she said she was still angry and she confronted her mother asking her, quote, why won't you let me have a normal life? Why is my life this way to begin with? And Gypsy said that her mother kept reiterating, like, you need special care and I'm taking care of you. And Gypsy said that her mother kept reiterating, like, you need special care, and I'm taking care

of you. And Gypsy said, quote, my mom was such a master manipulator that she was able to slip me right back into submission again, end quote. Now, I want to point this out because Gypsy uses this term a lot, and she uses this word, submission, a lot, that all of these people in her life were dominant over her and forced her into submission. Her mother and then Nicholas got to John. So keep that in mind. What do you think about this admission from Gypsy that in 2011, she grabbed a gun that she believed was a real gun, pointed it at her mother, who was trying to not let her run away again, and pulled the trigger 10 times. I mean, she tried to kill her. I mean, in her mind, that was a real gun and she pulled the trigger in an attempt to kill her mother.

Fortunately, it was only a BB gun, but as far as she was concerned, it was a real gun. And if it had been, Dee Dee would be dead. So I think it can, I mean, if it's true and I believe that it probably is because I don't think she would, she'd lie about something that doesn't necessarily paint her in the best light. So it just does show how toxic and violent the relationship was at that point. It was definitely boiling over. And then you have to go back and ask yourself if Gypsy's telling the truth about that and the fact that she tried to kill her mother with a gun. Why are we not to believe all the other things she's saying that led to that point? Why would she just randomly grab a gun and start shooting her mother?

Was that out of nowhere or that something led to it, are the things that she's described prior to this, like the leash, like the lack of food, like the unwillingness by Dee Dee to let her live her own life, could they also be true? So then my question, though, would be to the people who have been in the comments and who have said this is it's like they feel that Gypsy is less culpable, less responsible for her mother's murder because she wasn't the one who physically with her own two hands did it. But in 2011, she would have if she could have. So does that change the way you feel about it? It wasn't that she was not capable of carrying out her mother's murder. It wasn't that she didn't desperately want her mother dead. It's that she, I think, eventually realized like, hey, I'm a woman. And if I use my womanly attributes, if I use things like sex and connection, I can get someone else to do my dirty work for me. And I can continue this whole outward appearance of being a very vulnerable, very innocent and naive victim. But she was capable of doing it herself as she self-professed. So does that change anybody's

opinion? Oh, she didn't do it herself and she wouldn't have done it. Like if she'd been alone and didn't have help, she wouldn't have done it. I believe with everything in me that Gypsy Rose, whether she had Nicholas go to John or not, would have found a way to kill her mother. This is the first time she tries to kill her mother either. We're going to talk about that later. But I believe she would have found a way to make sure Dee Dee was dead, whether Nicholas go to John is in the picture or not. And I do believe that Nicholas go to John would never of his own free will have just found a Dee Dee Blanchard and killed her without Gypsy's influence and introduction and help. Yeah, I think there's going to be anybody who tries to come to a conclusion

at the end of the series with one answer about this entire case. You're going to be fighting a losing battle. There's going to be a lot of independent questions that have to be answered individually. There's going to be different parts of this story where you're going to ask yourself things like, do you think Dee Dee was abusing Gypsy? Do you think Gypsy wanted her mother dead? Do you think she got the proper amount of time when it came to the sentencing of her crimes or did she have more involvement? Do you think she should still be in prison? These are all individual questions and depending on where you fall you may feel differently about each thing and that's okay

so i do think you make a valid point and i think it's important to consider that when we get to the part of okay nicholas go to john is still in prison Gypsy Rose is a social media influencer and beloved by hundreds of thousands of people. So is that fair? Is that how it should have been? Do we believe? Because if that's the case and it is, then we all have to believe that Gypsy wouldn't have killed her mother if it were up to her. This was something that Nicholas go to John took on his own. And based on what you just read here, and as you said, her own admission, if that was a real gun, this would be a completely different story. They would have ended right there.

Gypsy Rose would have pulled a gun, shot her mother, end of story. Fortunately, it wasn't, but I think it's an excellent point that you make when it comes to the sentencing of this and the charges that were given. Yep, exactly. And do you think that if this had happened in 2011 and she'd been arrested and put in front of a jury and she was like, well, my mom was doing this, this, and this to me, do you think it would have given her as light of a sentence as she ended up getting? Probably not because she would have shot her mother 10 times and the jury would have been like, well, this would have been a Menendez situation.

Would have been a Menendez situation. So the only difference here is that the tool that Gypsy used to kill her mother was another human being and not a weapon. I hope nobody's offended by this, but just calling it what it is. Smart move. Smart move. Look, and I think Eric and Lyle would agree with her. Gypsy Rose is not dumb in any way, shape or form. If that was intentional, that buffer there by having another person physically carry out the murder is the reason she's out today. I wouldn't disagree with you on that. So because we have to, we can compare the two. I'm obviously very different. When I say the Menendez brothers, I'm talking in vague terms, right? There's a whole different story to each of these very different dynamic. I would also argue that the

physical and mental condition of Gypsy Rose wasn't to the level of Eric and Lyle. Yes, they were victims of child abuse, no doubt about it. They're both the same in that regard, but the physical and mental capabilities of Eric and Lyle were much higher than Gypsy Rose. Gypsy did have some things going on. And so now we know in 2011, Gypsy Rose did try to kill her mother with her own hands. The only thing that stopped her was the lethality of the weapon. And many people believe that Gypsy was angry with Dee Dee. I think that's an acceptable thing. We can all understand that she was angry with her mother. Obviously, you don't decide to kill your mother if you're not super angry. However, why she was angry is going to vary

based on who you talk to. Many people believe that Gypsy Rose wasn't mad about being held captive, wasn't mad about being made to do this whole song and dance, this whole ruse. She was mad because her mother wouldn't let her see or talk to Dan Glidewell, a man that Gypsy felt was going to save her, give her this new life, her knight in shining armor, a man that many people allege became Gypsy's obsession and remained that way for many years after. So Dan Glidewell's roommate and friend said, quote, she had fixated on Dan rather hard and considered him her boyfriend, although that was not the case. She thought of him as her knight in shining armor, end quote, which is exactly, like I said, the way that Gypsy would later describe Nicholas Godejohn. And it's clear that Dan was important to Gypsy. And even Nicholas Godejohn was aware of Dan Glidewell many years later, because at the time of his arrest, he mentioned Dan Glidewell

in his police interview. me and her actually held together until I was on the second line. So you can't hear exactly. I was trying. I couldn't make out what he was saying. But we can definitely hear him say, I'll apologize to everyone. The only one I'm not apologizing to is Dan. And then it sounds like he says,

not after she decided to go with him, screw it, me, I actually held it together until, and then he sort of trails off. Okay. What's Dan's purpose in Gypsy's life at this time so many years later when she's allegedly being forbidden to even have contact with him anymore? And she claims that her mother smashed her computer, smashed the phone, was monitoring her. And yet Gypsy really wasn't being monitored because she did continue to have contact with Dan. And then she meets Nicholas Godejohn and she's talking to other people online. She's not really being monitored at all. And so Gypsy also mentioned Dan Glidewell to the police. Remember, she meets him in 2010. She's still talking about him in 2015. And she tells the police, they're asking her about phone numbers and things. And she's like, oh,

there's only three numbers I remember off the top of my head. And Dan Glidewell was one of them. My mommy used to keep all the numbers in her cell phone or on a piece of paper at home. And the only ones that I know are my mom's number, Nick's number that just got arrested, and my friend Dan's number, but we're not on good speaking terms. So she says my friend Dan's number, but we're not on good speaking terms. So what does that mean? Well, we're not exactly sure, but it does suggest to us that in 2015, or at least in the time leading up to 2015, between 2010 when she met Dan and 2015 when she and Nicholas killed her mother, Gypsy is still in some sort of contact with Dan Glidewell, and Nicholas Godejohn seems jealous of this,

doesn't seem to like Dan's presence in Gypsy's life. Now, according to Gypsy, she eventually accepted that there was no way out. She was going to be forced to live with her mother forever. She was never going to find love, never have a normal life, so she took to the internet again, where she claimed she could build a fantasy life that was much better than the one she was trapped in. Quote, online, I could be the gypsy that has all these friends, the version of myself that is normal, end quote. And I totally get this. I mean, you were probably different than me, but I grew up in this internet age when all of a sudden you were kind of a teenager and everything sucked, you know, middle school sucked, high

school sucked. You just felt completely awkward. Like you didn't have a place. Like nobody really understood you. When I tell you that. Yeah, no, I had friends. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't. Like when I tell you, I literally, my whole childhood, I thought I was an alien and I was like, I love my family and they take care of me, but they're not actually like my people. And one day my people are going to come. And then all of a sudden I'm going to be understood and accepted and it's going to be great. Still waiting, huh? Well, no, we found our people on the internet, right? Like kids like me who are different. They found their people on the internet, chat board, chat rooms, internet forums,

things like that, where you could Tumblr, where you could find those with like-minded interests and you didn't feel so alone. So I totally get that. But once again, we have Gypsy going into a fantasy world where she's not herself, where she's playing roles, using different names, dressing in different clothes, etc. And Gypsy said that her mother would take sleeping pills at night. And that's when Gypsy would go online and chat with people. And once again, this does not go with the whole claim that Gypsy runs away in 2010, her mother chains her to the bed for two weeks and they just really never trusts her again. It sounds like Dee Dee's going to bed, taking some pills and passing out, you know, enough and long enough and deep enough sleeping where Gypsy can get out of bed and be on the computer

talking to people all night. And it doesn't appear that Dee Dee's monitoring this. It doesn't appear she's tying her daughter to the bed to make sure that if she moves, she knows. Gypsy could have left again. She could have crawled right out the window and left again as she had done before. Well, but didn't the reins loosen after the first couple of weeks of that? But if you really are saying that it's that drastic, your mother didn't trust you that much where she chained you to the bed, is it just going to dissipate like that overnight after two weeks? No, I think with time, but I think also like, I think Dee Dee's physical limitations, she clearly was in a lot of pain. Yeah. She wasn't doing well with health. That's what I'm saying. So it's like, she may have wanted to, she was strict for two

weeks, but then her physical health just really was taking a toll on her. But you have a computer in your house and you know that your daughter has access to this computer and she's been talking to people online. If you were really trying to isolate her that much, you'd put a password on it that she couldn't access, or you'd take the cord out at night. So she couldn't use it, you know, or you'd unplug the internet. So she couldn't use it. Like there'd be things that you would do. It's hard to rationalize. Maybe, I don't know, DeeDee's not here, but maybe she felt like, Hey, listen, as long as she's interacting with people online, maybe that'll suppress her need to leave again. I mean, interacting with people online was what made her leave to begin with. With these cases, we're trying to rationalize people who are not rational.

So Gypsy's chatting online. She's not isolated, by the way. She's got friends. She's got her neighbor, Aaliyah. They play together. They hang out all the time. She's been playing with kids when she lived in Louisiana. She played with all hang out all the time. She's been playing with kids when she lived in Louisiana. She played with all her cousins and their friends. She's got tons of friends in Springfield. You heard her say that herself in her police interrogation. This is not a girl who's being completely kept away from anybody. Her mom's bringing her to Vision Con. She's making friends there. She's got a community there that keep up with her. This is not a kid who is isolated completely from the outside world. I want to really clear that up because I think that's a common misconception. She was just locked

in her house all the time. No, just because she was homeschooled, well, she wasn't really homeschooled, but just because she was kept home from school doesn't mean she didn't have community or friends or people. She did. So anyways, one of these people she's talking to online is her neighbor, Aaliyah Woodmancy. And Woodmansey remembers that Gypsy used a fake Facebook profile because at that time and in going forward, Gypsy had a joint Facebook account with her mother, Dee Dee. So she's got a fake Facebook profile under the name Emma Rose. And Gypsy claims it was Aaliyah who suggested that she get on a dating website, specifically ChristianDatingForfree.com.

Now, also keep in mind, Gypsy's going to say that she thought she was 15 and her mother, you know, successfully convinced her she was 15 with the birth certificate again, but Aaliyah knew she wasn't 15. And that means Gypsy knew she wasn't 15. Because why would Aaliyah tell a 15-year-old girl, go on a Christian singles dating website. Everyone knew she wasn't 15, who was kind of like around her on a regular basis. And Gypsy told Aaliyah like, hey, I know I'm 19. I'm not 15. And she continued telling her this even after she claims Didi tricked her again and made her think she was 15 again. So this is when Gypsy Rose meets Nicholas Godejohn on the christiandatingforfree.com. And she said his profile stood out to her because he played video games.

She likes video games too. So the two began talking on this website on October 9th, 2012, and within no time they were communicating on Facebook. And within two weeks, they had made their relationship Facebook official. Nicholas Godejohn would later tell the police that Gypsy had so many Facebook accounts, he couldn't keep track of them all. And a warrant in the murder investigation would reveal accounts with names like Nicholas Bella Rose, Snow Gypsy Blanchard, Gypsy's Trip, Praying for Dee Dee and Gypsy, Bella Rose, Gypsy Rose, Emma Rose, and Devona Wolf. Devona Wolf was one of her BDSM profiles,

and she would have different names that she would use based on different sex characters that she would take on with Nicholas Godejohn. So we have to talk about Nicholas Godejohn now. Before we do, because there's a lot to talk about with him, obviously, main Godejohn came into the world needing emergency intervention to remove the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck. And doctors believed because of this, because he'd been deprived of oxygen for an undetermined amount of time, he grew up, he didn't progress like his peers. Godejohn was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome and placed in special education classes when he was in elementary school. And when he graduated from high school, his reading and writing levels were that of a fourth grader. Because of his inability to function in society, to hold employment, to maintain relationships, prepare his own food, take care of his own hygiene,

Nicholas Godejohn was placed on long-term disability at the age of 19. Now, Becca Scoops on YouTube, who is a certified psychiatric nurse, she's got a series on this case where in one episode, she discusses Nicholas Godejohn and Dr. Theodore Wasserman, who's an autism expert, and he evaluated Godejohn for the trial. Wasserman stressed that people at the high end of the spectrum, such as those with Asperger's, want intimacy, but have a very difficult time maintaining it. In fact, the difference between autism and Asperger's is those with Asperger's want to be social and get along with people, but they just don't know how. The disorder interrupts their ability to read social cues and they misjudge situations.

Those with Asperger's have the same kind of social isolation as a person with classic autism, but the isolation is due to their inadequacy as opposed to actually choosing it. So their need for an emotional connection is paramount however their isolation is due to their inability to connect as we do and for some with limited resources and help this disorder can create a very sad and lonely life dr. Wasserman also revealed that at the time Nick was approached by Gypsy Online,

he had come out of a failed romantic relationship but could not look introspectively to say what went wrong. So he could not draw conclusions about how to keep a relationship from failing. Dr. Wasserman said, quote, "'Like most people with Asperger's or autism, "'Mr. Gotajon was desperate to have a relationship "'and went right back to find a new person "'without having learned from his prior experiences.'" That was Becca Scoops, who you mentioned earlier. And you said she's a physician?

A psychiatric nurse an rn definitely go check out there's been a few of you in the comments have recommended that we have our clip in here but obviously if you want to see the full thing go over to her channel and check that out she she breaks things down in a way that's understandable which isn't her partner a detective as well i believe so yeah somebody was saying that in the comments i believe that her partner is a detective at the time that he met gypsy Rose Blanchard, Nicholas Godejohn was feeling very lonely and sad due to his previous failed relationship. And early on in their communication, Gypsy told Nick, quote, I'm a little embarrassed. This is my first time on an online dating site, but I thought it might be nice

to, well, she says me, new people, but I believe she meant meet new people and maybe find love too, end quote. So Nick was living in Wisconsin, and he was similar to Gypsy in the way that he was looking to connect with someone. And also, according to FBI agent Brad Garrett, he functioned at the level of a 15 or 16-year-old and didn't really have a normal social interaction history. So they shared that in common. And I will say in 2013, so this is after he meets Gypsy Rose, Nicholas Godetjian would be arrested at a McDonald's where he was caught masturbating, I guess, for an extended period of time. Some sources say several hours, some sources say eight hours. I don't know how you sit in a McDonald's and get away. Wait a second, wait a second. All at once?

Yes. That's got to be a typo. There's got to be. Either way, he's at a McDonald's. Not physically possible, Stephanie. I know. I mean, unless he was. Let's not. Either way, he's at a McDonald's. At some point, he gets caught masturbating and he also has a concealed knife. It doesn't sound like it was a butcher knife, more like a pocket knife, but either way, that's what's happening there. And yeah, so he's got his own problems. I'm not going to say that nobody's perfect in this case. I cannot stress it enough. There is no innocent person involved. They all had some work to do. Nicholas Godejohn is not perfect. He doesn't have a clean record. His ex-girlfriend had reached out to Gypsy Rose because Gypsy Rose is very obvious on her fake Facebook profiles

about what's happening with Nicholas Godejohn, like their Facebook official within just a few weeks of meeting online. She's writing on Facebook about how she wants to marry him and have his baby and things like that. So the ex-girlfriend reaches out and she's like, listen, this guy's red flag city. He's got aggression issues, this, this, and that. Be careful. And Gypsy claims at that time, she just thought it was a jealous ex-girlfriend and she didn't pay attention to the warnings. But either way, in 2013, he's arrested at the McDonald's. But while this is happening, he and Gypsy are still talking regularly every day and they get close, real close, real fast. And within no time, Gypsy was confiding in Nicholas about all of her woes. She said, quote, in a message, I need to tell you something.

I'm no model. I have a medical condition, so I can't walk. I have a chair I use. Is that an issue? End quote. This is interesting to me because Gypsy very quickly told Dan Glidewell, listen, I don't need this wheelchair. I can walk.

But she's talking to Nicholas, go to John, and she knows she can walk. And she's still telling him, I need a wheelchair. I can't walk. Why is she doing that? If she wanted to be herself, like if she could be online and her online fantasy life allowed her to be the real gypsy who had friends who wasn't relegated to a wheelchair. But she's continuing to tell Nicholas, go to John, I can't walk. I need a wheelchair. Good question. I have no idea. This happened how long before approximately the murders? Three years. Three years. Okay. So it's kind of a long time, but so this is probably, I could debate me myself on this one, but you could also say, is it a situation where she's trying to create the

perception that she's not in a physical condition to do something? And so she's already setting up the playing field where- To do something what, like sex? No, murder down the road. I'm not physically capable of it. I'm going to need a big, strong man to do it for me. I just feel like it's a little bit of a stretch. I throw it out there and I'm already kind of pushing back on it. But is she creating deception of being a victim in a situation where she's incapable of protecting herself? She needs a protector. Yeah. Well, maybe not thinking murder initially, but just a protector. Yeah. And so Nicholas says to her, no, why would that bother me? You know, in my eyes, you're an absolute angel.

Now, according to neighbor Aaliyah Woodmansey, Gypsy began gushing about her new boyfriend. And Aaliyah said, quote, she was talking about this new guy that she was now in love with. And they had met on this Christian dating site and they were already planning on their children, end quote. And on her secret Facebook page, Gypsy posted a status asking, quote, is it wrong to start thinking about your wedding before you're even engaged? End quote. Now, some people could say this might just be two people who never felt like they fit in anywhere, who never felt like they had anybody, and they found each other. And in each other, they found their home, their safe place. And so things moved very fast. You could also say that they're love bombing the shit out of each other. But this moved very, very fast, very fast. And even Nicholas Godejohn's mother, Stephanie, said when she would talk to people in her life about Gypsy Rose, she would call her the beast because she said this Gypsy Rose was relentless. And she would tell her son like, hey, don't you want to have a relationship with somebody like who lives close by to you? It's not a long distance thing.

She noticed that Gypsy on her Facebook page, because Stephanie, Nicholas Godejohn's mom, starts like following Gypsy. And she noticed Gypsy's talking about like planning the wedding and oh, I want to get pregnant by this man. And Stephanie is obviously thinking, red flag city about Gypsy Rose, right? Like this girl's moving very fast. I know my son is on the spectrum. I know he's got the mental capacity of like a 14 or 15-year-old. He's not ready for these adult things. He can't even take care of himself.

And this girl wants to have a baby with him now. And this is very stressful for a parent when to have a baby with him now. And this is very stressful for a parent when you have a child with special needs too, because maybe in a similar way that DeeDee was telling Gypsy, you know, you can't do these things in this way that you want to do them. Stephanie's thinking the same about Nicholas. Go to John. Like, I know you probably want this connection. You want someone to love, but you don't have the emotional or mental capacity right now to be a strong partner, a husband, a father. You know, I don't know how to take this. I've seen perfectly, I guess, quote unquote, normal teenagers do stuff like this as well. I've had situations as a police

officer where I've had to respond to homes and I'm dealing with 16 year old boys or girls who are still living with their parents and they're, they're running away together. They're spending nights together and they're talking about getting married and the girl's already pregnant or whatever. And so. Well, you wouldn't say that's normal or like healthy behavior. Obviously it's not the situation I'd want, you know, them to be in at that point. And we all know now as adults, you don't know who you are at 16 years old, but I don't know who you are at 23 either. To summarize, I don't know if I chalked this up to something more malicious on the part of Gypsy or if this is just normal, I guess. And

again, quotations, teen behavior where two kids have fallen in love and they haven't felt this way before. And it's euphoric to them and they just want to try to enhance it as much as possible. And they feel like they found their soulmate. I think this happens with people without these backstories as well. People come from maybe rocky or chaotic family lives and they just want something to feel steady. But she did this with Dan Glidewell too, right? She was obsessed with him and loved with him. And so it just feels like it's not necessarily you found your person. You just want to find a person. And that could also be suggestive of a person who was abused throughout their childhood and is just looking for someone they can rely on. I completely agree. So, I mean, it would even add credence to the idea that some

of the things, at least some of the things Gypsy has said are true and that she was really just looking to get out. I'm with you there. I'm completely with you there. But also manipulative people use love bombing. I mean, that's what I'm saying. We can keep it. It's like I totally see that perspective. But then it's like, but I also see this perspective and it sucks. So the relationship between Nick and Gypsy, you know, it starts off really sort of fantastical. Oh my God, the love of my life. Nobody's ever made me feel this way kind of stuff. All these declarations of very deep love. And it kind of escalates to some really deep sexual stuff. Gypsy claimed that she found out, or at least Nick told her,

he had multiple personalities and that he was into BDSM. So if anybody doesn't know, BDSM is like bondage, sadism, masochism. And so Gypsy claimed this was Nick's thing, and she went along with it in order to keep him happy. And so to do this, Gypsy would put on different outfits, different wigs, take on various personalities of her own to match his multiple personalities. And in her book, Gypsy consistently refers to Nick's, quote unquote, dominant role over her. She said, quote, love is patient and kind, not submissive or controlling. I don't recall the Bible saying that love is deviant and humiliating. But at the time, I mistook those behaviors as attention

and any attention at all made me feel seen and beautiful, end quote. She also says, quote, basically Nick said that I was committing adultery, that he had taken my virginity, which he didn't, and by God's law we were married. The letter was reminiscent of his dominant role that he was obsessed with playing out when we had our internet relationship. His attempt to control me and humiliate me as his submissive for his own deviant pleasures had gotten old, end quote. Now let's go over the statement that Nicholas Godejohn gave to the police. This is in the police report, so it's coming from the police officer's perspective. And it says, quote, I asked Nicholas what type of sex he and Gypsy had been having. Nicholas explained he and Gypsy have been experimenting with sex and that while the sex has

been rough, Gypsy has become used to it and she enjoys it. Nicholas said that with regards to biting Gypsy, she would have marks and or bruises on her body from the biting because she had asked me to do that in a way to mark my territory. Nicholas said the first time he had bitten Gypsy, it was because she had whispered in his ear that biting was a turn-on of hers. Nicholas said he has only bitten Gypsy twice, end quote. Nicholas go to John and Gypsy Rose. They meet for the first time in person in March of 2015. They've been talking since 2011 or 2012, right? They meet in 2015. And this happened because the two orchestrated a plan to bring their secret online relationship to a Springfield movie theater.

Gypsy claims that she believed if this meeting of Nicholas was sprung on Dee Dee, that Dee Dee would hopefully like Nicholas and kind of let Gypsy date him. And so Nicholas took a bus from Wisconsin and he arrived in Springfield and he goes to the movie theater to watch the live action version of Disney's Cinderella, the same theater and the same time and the same movie that Dee Dee and Gypsy were at. And Gypsy and Nick both dressed up for the event. She dressed up as Cinderella and he dressed up as Prince Charming. Obviously, and I'm not sure why Gypsy ever thought if she actually did think that Dee Dee would be okay with this, but obviously Dee Dee was not okay with this. She wasn't happy to see Nicholas. But during the movie, Gypsy claims she left the auditorium, left her mother in the auditorium watching the movie, and she

and Nick snuck out of the auditorium and they met in the men's bathroom where she rolled her wheelchair into a handicapped stall and they consummated their relationship. My mother was sitting right next to us and then my mother got increasingly angry because I was paying more attention to him than I was to her. Did you have sexual relations with him at the movie? Yes, sir. Where was your mother? She was in the auditorium. We had went to the bathroom, in the men's bathroom. I wheeled myself to the bathroom and he followed while my mother was still in the auditorium. And she knew he was following? Yes.

She thought that he was going to get popcorn. Where did you go once you got in the men's bathroom? The handicapped stall. And what happened then? We had sex. So we hear Gypsy say this to Dr. Phil. But in another documentary, the one that was on the Discovery Channel, Gypsy would claim nothing actually happened in that bathroom. She said Nick couldn't get it up, something he himself would confirm in a police interview.

So they just told everyone that she'd lost her virginity to him that day. I'm not sure why that would have to be something that would be lied about. But also we have Gypsy claiming, remember in this past statement where she was in her book saying, oh, he said he had taken my virginity. She said that wasn't true. We have Gypsy saying in her book, Nick did not take her virginity. So we would have to assume that this happened with Dan Glidewell, the only other man that she'd been with away from her mother allegedly long enough to have done something like that. And we know that they were talking about doing things like that and that they were into role playing and talking about sex. So it's most likely that that's what happened,

if that's what happened. The story just doesn't seem to remain consistent when it comes to many details, including this. And the reason I bring this up, because later in their messages, Gypsy's going to talk about trying to get pregnant and how she's missing her period. And she's like, oh, I want to get pregnant again and things like that. So why would she be talking about getting pregnant? Now, there's a lot of theories. She's maybe saying, oh, I want to try to get pregnant again. Some people say that she had gotten pregnant by Nicholas Godejohn in that bathroom stall and she lost the baby and so she wanted to get pregnant again. I don't believe that. Some people say that it was just a role-playing thing, an act. She was playing a little girl

named Bella and he was supposed to be her, I think, father figure that got her pregnant. It's messed up. But either way, she's talking a lot about getting pregnant. Gypsy, it seems, has always had a fixation with getting pregnant and becoming a mother. And once again, this can be for many reasons. This is also a sign of abuse, of childhood abuse, when a woman especially wants to have a child because she feels that she's never gotten unconditional love and she feels that she would get that from a child. So it could mean a lot of things. It could also be a manipulation, a way to trap somebody, a way to tie them to you, a way to create codependence again. It could go either way.

It's very, very difficult. I do want to say, because we played that clip and who exactly knows the timing of the filming of the Discovery show, the Discovery show could have been filmed before the Dr. Phil and I'm looking more at the, not only the verbal cues, but more importantly, the nonverbal cues, the physical behavior of Gypsy as she's talking to Dr. Phil. She's looking him in the eye. She doesn't have a bladed stance. She's not really fishing for her words. She's not looking off to the left or the right. She's looking right at him and telling a story that in reality, when it comes to the murder itself, doesn't have a lot of significance. The difference between losing your virginity in that bathroom or him

not being able to get it up, it's kind of like a side quest in a way. It doesn't really change the overall plot of the story, and yet she's choosing to lie about it, right? At one time or the other, she was lying with Phil. You don't think it changes the plot of the story if Nicholas Godejohn, the man that she claims was dominant over her, is the one that also took her virginity? Because that's- Maybe for him, I guess. If you're going down that route where that's the angle you're going with that, because he took her virginity, it made him that much more closer to her and that would make- And it made her more and it made her closer to him right she would have been more close to him and more likely to be manipulated by him because this was an important part of her life okay i i see where you're going with it so do you see how she if she

tailors it in certain ways to make it seem like he's the one that took her virginity now we can see how he has an extra layer of control over her. Okay. All right. I get the angle she could be going here, but you're telling me that this discovery documentary came out much later? It came out after. I don't know exactly when. I just wonder what changed because if we're going with the notion that Nicholas took her virginity, which made her much more susceptible to being manipulated and coerced by him then why would she switch up so quickly and say no actually he didn't take my virginity i don't i don't know what the what the agenda would be behind that seems like someone who and this happens with a lot of liars where sometimes they forget their own lies because they've told

so many but you would think that'd be once you'd be consistent on. Or you told a lie initially, you told a lie initially about Nick being the one to take your virginity because you were trying to build this narrative that he had, he was very manipulative and controlling over you. And this was just one more arm he used to manipulate and control you. And then later you told the truth because you'd already convinced people that, that he was the bad one and you'd already kind of gotten your deal. Yeah. I will say without knowing the details and feel free to push back on this one in the comments or whatever, but logistically, just as a human being, when you were telling the story initially, I found it a little hard to believe that they would be able to have full-blown sex

in that stall in that short period of time because when we think about how controlling dd is i'm sure she had a biological timer going on where if gypsy took too long to come back she would follow behind her and yet she didn't and i don't know how long that experience would take but i think it's weird and you heard dr phil say so she saw you both leave the theater at the same time and she's like yeah she thought he was getting popcorn. And it's like, if Dee Dee is this overbearing, suspicious person who's like monitoring your every move and she sees both of you leave the theater at the same time, and then it takes a little while for you to come back, she's not checking up. She's just completely cool with it.

I don't see that. Either way, I'm only talking about this at length because in context, it doesn't really matter to me for what I'm only talking about this at length because in context, it doesn't really matter to me for what I'm interested in, but I do see your angle on it as far as this is the setup, right? By Gypsy saying, hey, he took my virginity, therefore I was more open to doing what he wanted me to do. He had that control over me. I can see that angle. So I'm with you. For me, it doesn't really matter as far as what we're going toward, which is the murder, but I get it. I get it. It does talk about the dynamic over me, I can see that angle. So I'm with you. For me, it doesn't really matter as far as what we're going toward, which is the murder, but I get it. I get it. It does talk about the dynamic

of the relationship. So we're going to go over some Facebook messages between Gypsy Rose and Nicholas Godejohn. Before we do, let's take our last break. Okay, we're back. So these messages we're going to go over, they start in 2015. Obviously, there's messages being exchanged between Gypsy and Nicholas Godejohn for years and years before that. But 2015 is when they really start talking about murdering Dee Dee Blanchard, right? And Gypsy claims after the movie theater meeting, it was just bad between her and her mother. Dee Dee was furious. She was screaming at her for hours. She was calling her names like slut and whore.

And this was a big catalyst for why Gypsy and Nick shortly thereafter began planning the murder of Dee Dee Blanchard. This is what Gypsy claims. So let's go through some of these messages. And I'm going to be very straightforward with you. They are cringy. They are cringy. I can't. There's a lot uh they you'll see what i mean oh

i'm sure if we went through your messages not like some cringy stuff from you too not like hater hater you'll see this is may 27th 2015 and uh gypsy and, they're talking. And it looks like something happened. Gypsy kind of had like a mental breakdown. She was throwing little fits, kind of acting spoiled. And Gypsy says to Nicholas, go to John, I too want everything you do too. And Nicholas go to John says to her, what do you mean? And Gypsy says, everything you said you want, I want it too, to be together. And then Nicholas go to John said, honey, this is where we're different though. I don't just want everything with you, but I need everything with you for me to feel complete, sweetheart.

And then Gypsy responds, I need you too. And then Gypsy says, promise me the good part of you will never die. Nicholas go to John responds, really dear? Because at times I wonder if you do need me, dot, dot, dot. And then he says, baby, it could never die. Gypsy says, I do need you. It kills me to make you have to be on these ups and downs, right? She's talking about what's going on in her life. It's a roller coaster. And so therefore she's taking it out on him and she feels bad about it. And Nicholas go to John says, honey, you would not mind using a sweet name every once in a while. It helps me remember I'm worshipped, hon. And then she responds,

sure, sweetie. And he goes, that's better, dear. And Gypsy says, it's not that I don't worship you. I do, baby. I do. And I look forward to being with you. I'm just dealing with everything changing, hon. And Nicholas Godejohn says, about you or exactly what changes, dear. And Gypsy says, to move the change that's coming. Darling, I'm scared. And Nicholas Godejohn says, scared of what, my love? And Gypsy says, of everything. I'm not good with change, baby. And Nicholas Godejohn says, everything, sweetheart. We both have that in common when it has to do with moving, dear. So what they're talking about here is they're both going to leave their respective homes and they're going to live somewhere and start a life together.

So that's what they're talking about, moving. But they're saying it in kind of a code word and they're not explicitly stating like, oh, we're starting our new lives here. They're saying it as in like, I'm scared of what's to come. Things are changing. And it's believed that by this point, they're already kind of understanding and knowing what they're going to do. Gypsy responds, I'm going to be okay. I just need to calm down and take a breath. But darling, my feelings for you

will never change. I'm yours and you do make me happy, baby. And Nicholas says, I hope they never change because you scare me at times, dear. He said, I hope so, honey, because I put my mind, heart, and soul into being with you and making you happy, sweetie. Gypsy says, my feelings won't change. And though I have freakouts, I always come back to you, my love. I'm sorry I scared you. I'll give you lots of love in the hotel, baby. And Nicholas go to Jen and said, well, that's reassuring, dear.

I needed that. After doing what my evil side said, hon, question mark. So she's like, we're going to see each other in the hotel. They're planning on meeting up. He's going to come to Springfield, get a hotel and kill her mother. And she says she's going to make it up to him. And he said, well, my evil side wants and they're talking about sex. This is his evil personality. And she has a personality that matches his evil personality. And yes, Gypsy says, yes, that's that she'll do whatever his evil side wants. So I want to keep going with the story. I don't want to stop too much, but I think even this is an indication by both parties, the lack of social awareness and the emotional IQs where they're at. They're adding the love to the love terms, you know, baby deer. It doesn't even work in some of the sentences. It's just like, oh, it's just like, let's add it at the end of the sentence to show a sign of endearment. That's not even where it would go. But because they lack that emotional IQ in that way, they're both kind of pretending. Yeah, they're going through the

motions. Yeah. Like what they see on TV. Yeah, exactly. So if you didn't know their ages, okay, how old would you say these people are that are writing these text messages? Either 14 or 75. I'm with you. Right? I agree. I agree. Not, not, and at this point, Gypsy's 19, 20.

This is 2015. She's 23. Yeah. So to me, I don't think anybody who, without knowing the names and the backstory, would say, oh, yeah, that's two 23 or 24-year-old people having that conversation. It sounds like kids, like, literally, their freshman year of high school. It sounds like kids in their freshman year of high school. Even that is going far. It's a stretch.

Even that is a stretch. Or it sounds like people in their 70s who have been married for 72 years. And just got a phone. Yeah. Learning how to text. Yeah. So that's, I think it's important. I'm not making excuses, but I do think the way these conversations are constructed is important when we're talking about who we're dealing with. Right. So Gypsy asks Nick, go to John, do I make you happy? And he says, when you don't have your freak outs, yes, dear. And Gypsy says, maybe you might like me better in person. And she said, by the way, I'm afraid of bugs, just so you know, hon.

And then they have this weird back and forth where he's like, well, you shouldn't be afraid of bugs. They can't hurt you. And she's like, but I am. And he's like, but you shouldn't be. Don't worry about them. She's like, but I am. I'm afraid of bugs and I'm afraid of spiders. So you better make sure there's never a bug or spider around me. And he's like, but you don't

have to be afraid. He's like, I can't pick up on the fact that she's basically. Yeah. And he has Asperger's. He's he's. Yes, exactly. And she's, she's basically in a way, almost like small scale telling him I'm afraid of something and I need you to protect me from that thing because I'm just a little lady and I can't kill my own spiders. I need you to take care of that, right? She's little by little giving him like this responsibility of her care. Yeah. And to expect him to pick up on all that through text. And he can't because like you said, he has Asperger's, which means he don't pick up on social cues. He would have that and doing that in person or displaying any type of emotion. Absolutely. He thinks she's just literally telling him, I'm afraid of bugs. And he's like,

but you don't have to be logically. You're little. They can't hurt you. And she's like, you're not picking up what I'm putting down, man. I need you to be my knight in shining armor. God damn it. He killed a spider. So she says, he's talking about her freak outs. They're talking about spiders. Seems like she's trying to show him, I'm not mentally well. I'm not doing well in my life. Things aren't going well for me. We're moving on into what looks like May 29th. And Gypsy's talking to Nick. She's like, sorry, I'm okay. There was a tornado warning, but I'm fine. He's like, that's good news, dear. And she says, darling, can you please meet me online? We need to talk about our plan. He says, okay, honey. And then she responds, I'm still daddy's girl. Hold me. And yes, it's kitty daddy. Nicholas go to Jen says, baby, why didn't you answer daddy before as I hold you in my lap? And Gypsy says, I was taking tummy meds to make me feel better, so I put my phone down.

She's talking like a baby. And she's going to say that she's doing this because that's what he wants, and he wants to be dominant, so she's going along with it. But she seems pretty into it herself. And Nicholas go to John and says, oh, honey, just never change on daddy because I never want you to be anything but daddy's everything as I rock you back and forth in my arms on my lap. And Gypsy says, I won't change daddy. I curl into your shoulder and cuddle. And they go on with this role playing. This is their role playing. You can tell they put things in quotes. And when they're putting things in quotes, they're talking about their actions that they're doing with each other. Now Gypsy starts asking, she's looking up his house on Google Earth and she's like, oh, hey, like, is this the right house I'm looking at? And he's like, yeah, that's the right house. And she's like, wow, it's kind of small. And he's like, yeah, it's small to a degree. And she's like,

I looked up the population of your town and it's smaller than the smallest town I've lived in. I thought 7,000 was small. She's basically saying like, I'm not living in this small podunk town with you in this small, tiny house. You know. It's not my thing. I've lived everywhere and I've never lived in a place this small. And so she says, maybe we should live with your mom, right? Maybe we should live with your mom in this area. And he's like, no, I don't really want to live with my mom. So she's kind of like being a little bit of a, we're going to start a new life together. And I don't care what happens as long as we're together, but I can't be living in the small house in the small town. Then Gypsy starts talking about being sad. She said she feels sad.

And she says, part of me is really worried about my tube. What if I could have it taken out being pregnant? And Nicholas responds, you said you would have it taken out. And then Gypsy responds and said, can you wait 10 minutes for plan B? Don't know what that means. But then Nicholas says, because for a second, I thought you wanted me to get you pregnant again, dear. And this is weird. And a lot of people question it. Get you pregnant again. Does that mean, do you want me to try to get you pregnant again? Or did he get her pregnant before? Or did she tell him? She tell you that, yeah.

Did she tell him she had been pregnant before, and now she wants him to get her pregnant again? Yeah. I mean, your guess is as good as mine. I would go with the latter. I would go with the last option that maybe, because it doesn't appear to be any type of medical history that would suggest that unless we're missing certain things

that she had any type of, she could have just taken a plan B, but if she had taken the plan B, then more than likely she wouldn't have known that she was pregnant because you do that almost immediately after. So unless she had some type of medical procedure, then that would just be a guess of hers

unless there's some proof that we don't know about. Unless she knows that he doesn't know anything about this up or down. Yeah, he's not going to question it. Right. He's not going to, hey, listen, I was pregnant. You got me pregnant. Yeah. I got rid of it, but you got me pregnant. Yeah. All right. All right. I lost him. The feeding tube caused me to lose the baby. Now she's trying to make him mad at her mom because of this feeding tube. It killed our child kind of thing. Who knows, right? We don't have all the context.

She asks him if Big Bend has a hospital. Big Bend, Wisconsin is where he lived, this small town. And she said, I'm late on my period. And Nicholas go to John answers, no, it doesn't have a hospital. And then to the I'm late on my period, he just says, okay. Now here's the interesting thing, because Gypsy Rose has always claimed that her mother kept her young, shaved her. And when she would get her period, Dee Dee would make Gypsy use diapers. And Gypsy claims that until she went to prison, she didn't know anything about her menstrual cycle or the use of sanitary napkins or pads or tampons or things like that. She learned all of that from the ladies in prison who helped her out and they were like her little moms. She didn't know anything about her period, how it happened, why it happened, none of that until she went to prison. But here she is, clearly understanding that missing your period means you could be pregnant and she seems familiar

with her menstrual cycle and what that all means. So once again, I think she pretends to be a little bit more innocent and naive than she actually is. Listen, I agree with that. And I know I've been pushing back and almost acting as a little bit of a gypsy rose defender in this episode. I think that's important to represent both sides. But there's no doubt in my mind that especially after the fact, just like many liars, she's

embellishing stories to make herself, to gain more sympathy, right? There's no doubt about it. I went to prison and it wasn't until I met my prison mates that I learned about my period. And you have, she doesn't expect these Facebook messages to come here, but she's embellishing. No doubt about it. She's trying to garner even more sympathy when in reality, if she just told the truth, that would probably be enough because what she was experiencing truthfully was, was terrible and, and should have never happened, should never happen to any child. But again, when you have someone who has grown up lying like this, uh, it's just what they refer. It's just what they go to.

Even the real story is, is not enough. They always got to add another layer to it. And it's something that you see quite often with people that lie like this. They always got to add another one. They always got to one-up it. And I think it's because people who lie like this, they have this feeling of when they get the attention, they're telling a captivating story and people are listening and they're paying attention. And so they're compelled to sort of embellish and add these details to keep their captive audience or to increase it, right? So that's probably what happened. But Gypsy keeps pushing. She's like, maybe we move in with your mom in Milwaukee. And he's like, Milwaukee, I'd rather live in Waukesha. And she's like, all right, we can look at apartments in Waukesha, which is in Wisconsin. And she's like,

with that $5,000 I have, we're going to be set. And I think it's funny. It really does show me both the mental age and the reality of what life was for Gypsy and Nick, because you think $5,000, you're set. You're lucky if that pays for your apartment's down payment and first month's rent, honestly, at this point. Again, it sounds like we're hearing from 14 year olds that the value of a dollar, they don't have an accurate depiction of that. Yeah. They think this is even in, even in 2015, maybe that might be, that might be a month or two of depending on how you're living, uh, of getting by. And of course, this is the exact amount that she ends up stealing from her mother after the murder. And, you know, they're talking about what their life, Gypsy's like, Waukesha looks beautiful.

You can do this. I can do that. I'll sell my art. You know, just creating this big fantasy world. Well, by the way, let's not skip over that. Let's not skip over that. You talk about her understanding that there's a certain amount of money, because I didn't know that part until you just said it, that there's a certain amount of money because I didn't know that part till you just said it That there's a certain amount of money that was taken after her murder the five thousand dollars well that means

If she's talking about it here She knew about that money before the murder and by saying the money that I will have the five thousand I will have That would suggest that dd's money dd's five thousand Would no longer be needed by DeeDee. Again, we're kind of jumping here. Or that she's just going to take it. She took the $1,000 in her mother's wallet when she ran away in 2011. She's just going to take it. That would be the argument. Oh, I was just referring to me taking the money, stealing it. But someone could also say she knew already that after whatever was

going to be done, DD would no longer need that money. I think it's a sign that she's like, this is my money. You're getting this because of me through social security, through whatever. This is my money anyways, that you used me to get. So I'm going to take it. It's mine. And I honestly don't disagree. No. so her rationale for taking the money may be sound to some people. My question to everyone out there is, as she's making the statement, she's making it as if Dee Dee's no longer in the picture. Because at this point, Dee Dee's holding onto that money. As if she knows Dee Dee's not going to be in the picture, yeah.

That's what I'm saying here. This money is in Dee Dee's control, whether we agree with that or not. And Gypsy's talking as if DeeDee's no longer going to be in the picture and that money will be readily available for them to utilize. My question to her in that moment would have been, well, why is DeeDee not going to push back? Is DeeDee going to be okay with this? Clearly, she doesn't think that's going to be a roadblock. My question is why? What's going to happen here? So if you're looking for premeditation and trying to gauge Gypsy's involvement in the murder, that to me could be something that would be used by the prosecution down the road.

And this is hugely premeditated. That's always bothered me. It's clearly premeditated. They're planning the murder and it gets more obvious and more just clear cut. Just the fact that it was premeditated and you had a long time to change your mind should have given Gypsy a longer sentence than she got, in my opinion. I would love to hear people, and we're going to get more into the murder, obviously, but as you were saying it, you just kind of, you know, you went through it and it's like, whoa, wait a second. She's talking about money that's already in DeeDee's possession that she's now going to have after something. How does that happen? So I'd love to hear from people if that's your takeaway from that. If you're following along with the story

and that's something that's new to you, what do you take from that statement? Is it just an innocent thing that's flippantly being thrown out there? Or is it something like I'm saying, where there might be an indication that Gypsy already knew what was going to go down, what she wanted to happen? So on May 30th, Gypsy says to Nicholas, go to John, quote, will you give me my first orgasm soon, my love? Will you finger me on the bus? I desire pleasure too, hon. End quote. And they're talking about the bus that they're going to get on after they kill Dee Dee and run away and escape. And they're talking about the sexual games they're going to play after killing Gypsy's mother and being on the bus, driving away from it. Like a modern day Bonnie and Clyde. So Nicholas go to John says, hon,

I may be naughty on the bus. Just depends on the moment. Depends on how naughty, hon. Hon, hon, hon. And then Gypsy says, well, I'm going to touch you and I'm going to kiss you too everywhere. And Nicholas says, dear, I may give you permission to. And then Gypsy says, good darling. So it sounds like Nicholas wanted to be in this dominant role, but in reality, Gypsy was, she's like, I'm going to do this to you. I'm going to do that to you. He's like, well, if I give you permission to, and she's like, mm-hmm, sure, hon. Sure, if you give me permission to. And Nicholas says, as for the kissing, you know you can do that on my body, sweetie. And Gypsy says, the first movie I want to watch with you is Fifty Shades of Grey. I also think we should start with soft, wet anal sex before

big time anal. So Gypsy's really like, she's a fast learner. And then she goes, let's talk on Facebook, lol. And Nicholas go to John says, dear, I'd watch that with you to get us in the mood, which depends on the time. It could be a later movie, baby. And he goes, as for anal, don't worry about that because it's my job as your master, dear. Okay. So, and then she goes, you make my, my girly parts tingle. That's what Gypsy says to Nicholas, go to John. And he goes, I'm glad I do because I'm supposed to hon. And she said, I'm thinking about you in a naughty way. And he says, that's good. So now we're in Sunday, May 31st. Gypsy says, you're a great daddy and thank you for doing the worst for the best of us. What is she talking

about? Thank you for doing the worst for the best of us. Yeah, she talking about? Thank you for doing the worst for the best of us. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. These little things, it is very cryptic, but doesn't look great considering what happens. What conversations, are they talking on the phone at all as well? Like talking on the phone, like conversations? Are there conversations on the phone? I'm assuming so. There were some, yes. So there's also conversations that are not recorded like this that are happening in between these calls. And so you're connecting some dots here,

which in a court of law, it may be difficult. But for our consumption, it does give an indication, at least to me, that there's conversations happening before the murder that may indicate Gypsy is fully aware of what's going to transpire. So now we're going on and Gypsy says on May 31st, 2015, you know what? I'm going to start wearing a ring because I want to feel married to you. So one of my rings from the girly shop, Claire, will do. And Nicholas says, okay, hon, and sorry I didn't answer until now. And then Gypsy says to him on May 31st, I need to tell you a secret, hon. And he goes, go ahead, dear. And she goes,

I never stopped sucking pediasure from a baby bottle. And Nicholas go to John and says, baby, I already knew that. And Gypsy goes, you know, dot, dot, dot, how? And he says, baby girl, seriously, do you not understand that I'm with you spiritually? I experience everything with you, dear. That's why there's no point in hiding things from me. And he, she goes, oh, okay, hon, are you with me when I'm naked? And he goes, and then she goes, I'm going to church now, hon. And he goes, okay, hon, and I'm with you at all times. And she goes, darling, I'm 100% with the plan. And he goes, what do you mean, dear? And she goes, I'm in for it, hon. And then she goes, no doubt. She said, I'm in for it, no doubt. The plan they're talking about is the plan to kill her mother. Nicholas go to John responds, okay, darling. And Gypsy said,

that's all just okay. I was expecting, I don't know, joy, I guess. Because she's like, I'm in on this plan that I want you to kill my mother for me. And he's like, all right. And she's like, well, aren't you happy that I'm all about it? And he's like, yeah, of course I'm happy. He says, of course I'm happy, dear. And she goes, okay, good, sweetie. What's your stepdad's name? Just so I know. And he said, Charlie. that is what it is, hon. And she goes, okay, darling, cool. And he says, yes, dear. And then she goes, please be online. And he goes, okay, darling. So they're talking about the plan. She's totally in, no doubts. She says, this is May 31st. Well, let's dissect that. This goes back to my question a couple minutes ago, as far as phone conversations. Clearly it didn't happen in this dm conversation right the messages so this happened some other way and more than likely it was by phone i i think you can interpret her saying that both ways you can interpret it as nicholas go to john presented the idea of killing her mother and gypsy said let me think think about it. Or, you know, maybe, and this is her saying, you know what I am in, or if you're to believe that gypsy's more manipulative than some give

her credit for, she suggests the idea. She almost presented in a way where Nicholas starts to think it's his idea. And now she's just reaffirming what she wanted in the first place. Hey, by the way, that plan that we had mutually brought up, I'm in for it. So either way you slice it, this is a collaborative effort. They're both confirming what they know is a plan to do something against Didi. Based on these text messages, we don't know what that exact plan is, but I think it is safe to kind of expand on what we do know and add it into this equation that ultimately was about murdering Dee Dee. Now, I'm sure Gypsy, you may tell me that she thought this plan meant something differently as part of her defense, but we'll get there.

But as far as where we are right now, very incriminating as far as the idea of this being a premeditated murder on the behalf of both Gypsy and Nicholas Godejohn, not one or the other. Obviously, yes. And so keep in mind, we're going to June 1st now. Dee Dee Blanchard's murdered on June 9th. Okay? So we're right coming up to the time that the murder happens. And it looks like Nicholas and Gypsy got into a fight on June 1st.

We don't know what happened before. Like you said, they're talking in many different places. They're talking on the phone. She texts him on June 1st at 1.19 a.m. And she said, so you won't end this. Nicholas responds and said, I'm not saying anything besides it's a waste of time. Gypsy says, get your ass back now. And she capitalizes now and puts an exclamation point.

And she goes, as far as i'm concerned i'm gonna rip you a new one now this is a girl that says she was completely under his control was afraid of him would never talk back to him yeah i i definitely as someone who's trying to remain impartial don't hear these messages and and look at the power dynamic of this relationship as being one side or the other i think it it's a toxic relationship. I don't think Nicholas is holding the reins and I don't think she necessarily is either. I think they share that even though it does seem like she has the ability to push back a little bit more. I think she's in firm control of this man and their interactions. I do. In no way, shape or form do I see a world where Nicholas go to John is running the show that I haven't seen

any indication of that. So again, limited sample size. I'm just going off messages. I wasn't there. I wasn't present. I don't know what happens behind closed doors, but the idea that she was under the spell of, of, of Nicholas is, is escaping me at this point. No. So, um, he's like, I'm not, I'm not even going to bother. She's like, uh, I'm going to rip you a new No. So he's like, I'm not, I'm not even going to bother. She's like, I'm going to rip you a new asshole. And he's like, that's not worth it. I'll always fight for us. It's your turn for once. And Gypsy responds, me, how the hell am I going to fight if it's one-sided? She says, what will I wear to impress your folks? I'm going to go with you. God damn it. He's not answering. And then finally he says, I told you I'll let you know in person.

Why do you say it that way? And she goes, like about an hour later, she's like, I'm me again. Sorry, my love. And he goes, dear, you gave me another scare. And she goes, okay, well, good night, hon. So it feels like Gypsy will just randomly go from being sweet and pliant and his little girl too aggressive and mad at him and argue. And he says this scares him when it happens because he's afraid she's going to be done with him. She's going to leave him.

She's threatening to leave him. Things like that. And then she'll come out of that and be like, sorry, I don't know what came over me. I'm sorry I went through one of my spells again. I'm sorry you have to go through these ups and downs with me. And then she says here at 2.35 a.m., I don't know what's wrong with me. Do you know? And Nicholas goes down and says, come on, baby. I know you can bond with me better than that. I love, adore, and worship you, my dear true love. So Gypsy responds and she says,

I didn't mean it when I called a life with you trash. So we kind of get an indication into a conversation we don't have all the context to, but it sounds like they were fighting and maybe she said some things that were mean and hurtful. She called a life with Nicholas Godejohn trash. And, you know, couples fight, right? But Gypsy could be kind of mean. And many of her boyfriends and the people she's been with have said that she's very sweet and she's very kind and she talks in that high-pitched voice. But when push comes to shove, her words can cut like a knife, okay? She can be very malicious. So Nicholas Godejohn said, dear, it's about the sex. Like I told you before, the sooner I give you an orgasm, the sooner you go back to your lovey-dovey happy self, hon. But I just said it back to you, sweetie. Please say it back, sweetie. He seems a little bit dependent on her. Like he needs her approval and he needs to know that they're okay or he cannot function, right? Oh yeah. He's codependent. And Gypsy says, so sex is like a tranquilizer, LOL. And Nicholas says, baby, someday you'll, how important it is in our

life. I think he meant to say, you'll see how important it is in our life, but he just missed that word. And she goes, just forget all I said tonight. And he says, why do you say that? And she goes, I never meant any hurtful things. I'm in self-destruction mode. When I'm like that, ignore me. And Nicholas said, well, all I could do is hope you come back, honey. And then Gypsy says, I want to be with you. And Nicholas says, I know, dear, you scared me, though. I thought I lost you. And Gypsy says to Nicholas Godejohn, you almost did. And then she wrote, I think I'm bipolar. Nicholas Godejohn said, what, baby? I don't want to lose you, though. And you told me that I couldn't ever lose. Now I worry I will. And she says, well, it's more I would push you away until you walked away. I

can't leave, but I can make you leave. And Nicholas go to John says, baby, is that supposed to be comforting? And she goes, in a way, yes, hon. And Nicholas says, please don't push me away too hard, hon. And she goes, is there medication for bipolar, hon? And Nicholas says, baby, if I did let you take medication for that, are you thinking it would help? And then Nicholas go to John says, so are you saying it will get better once we're in person? And Gypsy says, yes, darling, that's exactly what I'm saying. I'll still have mood swings, just not severe ones like tonight. Nicholas go to John says, baby, please say it because I'm worried still. And it would be nice to be comforted right now. And Gypsy says, sweetie, please don't be worried. I'm not going anywhere.

Well, I'm going with you, but I mean, I'm by your side, hon. And she continues and says, the ups and downs will balance out with us being together in person. And Nicholas go to Jen says, you know what I want to do after tonight's scare, hon? And Gypsy says, have sex, LOL. And he goes, baby, do you remember the tangled posts I gave you a while ago? And she says, of course, hon. You want to hit me with a frying pan. And he says, I want to do that right, just so you aren't going anywhere. Yes, like tangled posts when both tied each other up.

I wish I could just so you would be stuck with me. And Gypsy's fine with this. Gypsy's fine with this. Gypsy's fine with this. But some people look at this in this kind of communication and they wonder if Gypsy's being manipulative by saying to him, listen, I'm being mean to you. And this is kind of what her mother did to her. This is how she explains how her mother would manipulate her

and get her under her spell. She'd be super, super nice to Gypsy. But then if Gypsy did anything wrong, what did Gypsy say Dee Dee did? Pulled back, went cold, said mean things, favored the cat. Let Gypsy know you're a disappointment. I'm mad at you and said mean things to her. And it looks like that's what Gypsy's doing with Nicholas Godejohn. And anybody who's been on the receiving end of that kind of hot and cold Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde abuse knows how very impactful it can be gypsy knew that and is she exercising the same thing on nicholas go to john like oh i'm sorry i was mean i didn't mean that i

might have bipolar but when we're together when you do what you're supposed to do which means we can be together i won't be mean to you anymore yeah it definitely seems like there's i agree with you that gypsy's kind of wearing the pants and that's where the power dynamic is. And it seems like Nicholas go to John is kind of on a yo-yo kind of on a string here. And she's just, she's just kind of keeping him at bay, but also bringing him in when she needs to, to keep him on the hook. Um, that's my takeaway again, limited sample size. We're talking about just a few messages. I don't know what's being said on the phone, but from what we can see and what we can actually observe and dissect, if you made me choose and it was a blind test where I didn't know who was saying what

and Gypsy was A and Nicholas was B, I would say that player A is more in control of this relationship and has the ability to dangle carrots when needed to accomplish what she's trying to, whatever her objective is. Exactly. Exactly. And we're going to see a little bit more of this. We're going into June 2nd now, and I'm going to read a couple texts and I'm going to kind of go them, and then I'm going to ask for your opinion. So on June 2nd, she says, I'm 100,000% in, hon. I'm really ready. And Nicholas Godejohn says, why do you say that, baby? And she goes, because I finally allowed myself to accept you're my everything. I will go with you and live our dream. Nicholas Godejohn says, okay, hon. Gypsy says, darling, I'm so sorry about last night. I'm completely different. I'm your woman. Nicholas go to John says, okay, dear. And she continues and says, I will be truly your everything. I know I've been up and down, but darling, in nine days, I'm yours forever. And Nicholas go to John says, true, hon. And he says, true, baby. So he says, true, hon, and then true, baby, in two separate messages. And Gypsy says, and yes, I'm going to fight like hell for us, baby. Do you forgive me, darling? Nicholas go

to John says, baby, you have a couple questions to answer online. So they keep referring to different places they're talking. And I think that's where the majority of the details of the murder is being planned. So Nicholas asks her because I believe they're planning and I believe that they're trying to make sure that any evidence of their plan is not around. Gypsy says she trashed her old laptop and she says they can just use the same laptop together. Nicholas Godejohn says, quote, dear, I answered you. And what about all the memories of us in your computer, sweetie. Gypsy responds back, I saved those, but fuck you. You don't get it, do you? Never mind. She says all of this in caps. Nicholas go to John responds, dear, what the heck? And she goes, I tried being there for you. All you do is make me cry. I give everything for you. I was trying to be nice while explaining myself. Then you say that, dear, that was uncalled for.

I always put my best. And you say 50% bullshit. So this must have been something that he said in another platform. And Nicholas, go to John's response. Phone call or. Yeah, or this online place where they're answering each other's questions that they're referring to. And we're going to talk more about that later. But Nicholas, go to John's says, baby, I don't only make you cry. I've given you plenty of happy memories. And Gypsy

says, who puts up with your overbearing ways, your ridiculous political shit? And he goes, dear, I'm not trying to argue with you. So please stop. And she goes, I was in a romantic mood. Now you screwed that to hell. And Nicholas Godejohn says, well, sorry, I'll leave you alone. All you do is push me away. And Gypsy goes, sadly, 10 minutes ago, all I wanted was to snuggle with you. Nicholas go to John says, dear, just stop talking to me. You're only going to make things worse since apparently now I know I can't open up to you just because of that. You keep bitching. And Gypsy said, I opened up. I was what you wanted and you pushed me away. And Nicholas go to John says, yeah, you told

me to fuck off. I guess I'm a punching bag. And Gypsy says, why couldn't you have just been loving? And she goes, I'm sorry, hon. Look, please don't fight. Just try and understand. I was saying how much I need you. And you basically called me a faker. Okay. So this is once again, super toxic. And in this situation, Nicholas Godejohn's almost being the healthier, like down to earth one where he's like, listen, if you're this upset, just stop talking to me right now. You're going to make it worse. You're going to say things you regret. You have to apologize for later. Let's just take a beat. And she's like, no, you're going to listen to me. And I'm going to let you know how much you disappointed me, how bad you are, why you're inadequate, why you're not meeting my needs. This is what her mother did to her to manipulate her,

to get her codependent, to get her all confused inside. She's doing it to Nicholas Godejohn. She learned it. She learned it from her mom. And then Nicholas Godejohn says, I didn't push you away. All I did was explain and you told me off. If that's how you feel, then I guess I can't make you happy anymore. Sorry, I'm a failure to you. Gypsy responds and says, can we please talk online, please? We're going to be living together soon. Shouldn't we at least try and make this work? This is so uncomfortable to watch because what she's doing is she's pushing and pushing and pushing him until he's finally like, fine, sorry, I suck.

Sorry, I'm not good enough for you. Like this is done. And then she's like, come on, come on, man. Like, let's not, we're going to be living together. Like we're in love. What are you talking about? I almost look at it as like beating someone into submission and pushing them right to the edge. And then when you know, you've gone just a hair over, you, you reel it back in. You reel it back in. You, you, you break them, you break them. So you can be the one to put them back together again. Right. Yeah. That's how I, that's how I perceive it. Again, we're not psychiatrists here, but that's definitely what it looks like to me. And now Gypsy continues on. She's like, you're free, sweetie. You don't have a bitch of a girl now. And she's basically like,

you know, this is done. You don't have to, I'm not your problem anymore. And then Nicholas go to John responds, yes, free to die by my love. And then Gypsy responds, daddy, daddy crying. This is toxic. She's like, what do you mean? Question mark. My love, Nicholas, answer me. So now he's saying, oh, I'm free to die. He's kind of threatening. Like he's going to take his life. And now she's like, no, come back, come back. It's just a mess. It's a mess. And this is just a week before the murder when they're supposed to be riding off into the distance. And this kind of goes on and on and on for a while. The same kind of thing, the same push-pull dynamic, the same toxic cycles. Very revealing. So I kind of wanted to get these messages out so we could sort of see what the dynamic was. And as you said, you couldn't really say who was in charge. But what I would take from it is Nicholas thought he was in charge. Gypsy wanted him to think he was in charge. But when push came to shove, she also wanted to exert her will and her power on him to let him know, kind of like, hey, if you lose me, what are you going to have? And so this, in a way, she's manipulating him

by giving him something that he wants, becoming a very important person and a very important connection in his life, and then threatening to take that away if he didn't do what she wanted him to do. I don't disagree with you. Honestly, I think what I said earlier applies here. There's going to be multiple questions throughout this series, and they're not all going to fall to one person. They're not all going to have answers either. Yeah. And then, yeah. And they're, and they're all opinions. But I think when you say that the power dynamic specifically between Gypsy and nicholas go to john i would i would favor gypsy she's in the driver's seat she's in the driver's seat doesn't change anything we talked

about before we don't mean you don't completely agree on the level of as far as where the abuse was and if that dynamic changes as their relationship between dd and gypsy evolved but this right here to me i'm on board with you. And I think it's important because we're getting to why we're here, which is the murder of D.D. Blanchard. It reminds me of, I think, something that a lot of women have recognized throughout history. And it's different in 2024 because there's more equality and all that. But for a long time, women didn't have the kind of societal or economic or political power that men had, and they had to almost get that power and influence through their husbands. And if you ever watched

my Big Fat Greek Wedding, one of the aunts in there says, or the mother, the main mother, she's like, the husband is the head of the family, but the wife is the neck and she can turn the head any way she wants. Women have understood their very subtle power over their partners. And it's this very, I think, easy dynamic for some women to fall into where it's like, I can use my feminine wiles to get these men to do what I want. And that's exactly what I think was happening with Gypsy. And there's nothing wrong with that necessarily. If you as the female partner of your husband or your boyfriend are doing it for his own good and kind of making him think it's his idea and, you on Nicholas's background, his mental state, how much control did he really have over his own actions here? Who had more control over their actions, Gypsy Rose or Nicholas Godejohn? That is the question. We still got a lot more to go.

And unfortunately, a little bit of bad news. We are off next week. So next week, there will be no Crime Weekly news. There'll be no Crime Weekly. We're taking a week off. We are off next week. So next week there will be no Crime Weekly news. There'll be no Crime Weekly. We're taking a week off. We got some catching up to do. I don't think we've taken much time off this year. So it's going to be a week for us to recuperate and kind of go to the second part of the series and finish out strong. And it'll be the second. Yeah, it'll be like the second half of the series. Yeah, the second half of the series. And also give us some time to maybe give Gypsy a chance to respond to my uh interview request or also confirm this other guest that i'm pretty sure we have um

and we'll be working next week we'll be working on those interviews and stuff like that so we appreciate you guys being here as always make sure you like comment subscribe share the video uh and if you're listening on audio leave a review we would greatly appreciate it uh that's gonna do it for us everyone stay safe out there and we will see you in two weeks.