Crime Weekly - S3 Ep251: Dee Dee Blanchard: Justice Served? (Part 7)

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

A small, quiet town in Missouri. A devoted mother caring for her chronically ill daughter. A story of love, sacrifice, and survival. Or so it seemed. But behind closed doors, beneath the layers of sympathy and kindness, there was a dark secret waiting to be uncovered. For nearly two decades Dee Dee Blanchard told the world that her daughter, Gypsy Rose, was dying. Leukemia, muscular dystrophy, seizures, vision and hearing issues, the list of illnesses and medical concerns was endless. Gypsy, a seemingly happy little girl with a huge smile, was bound to a wheelchair, fed through a tube, and showered with the attention and support of everyone around her, but no one really knew the horrifying truth. It seemed that Gypsy was perfectly healthy. She could walk. She didn't need a wheelchair to get around, and it appeared that she was being kept a prisoner in her own body, in her own home, by her own mother. The story goes that years of abuse, manipulation, and lies built up until they all came crashing down in the most unthinkable way: Murder. On the night of June 14, 2015, Dee Dee Blanchard was found stabbed to death in her home, and the prime suspect? Dee-Dee's innocent, smiling, happy, and allegedly disabled daughter, along with the man that Gypsy had been having a very adult relationship with. But nothing about this case is as it appears to be. This is the story of Gypsy Rose and Dee Dee Blanchard. Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. DraftKings Casino - New players, play just $5 to score 50 INSTANTLY in Casino Credits! Download the app and sign up with code CRIMEWEEKLY. Then get a taste of Sauce Boss Barbecue, exclusively on DraftKings Casino! 2. ShipStation.com/CrimeWeekly - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY and get a 60 Day Free Trial! 3. TryFum.com - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY and get a FREE gift with your Journey Pack! 4. SimpliSafe.com/CrimeWeekly - Get 60% off ANY new system with a Select Professional Monitoring Plan!

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Levasseur. So today we are diving into the seventh and final installment of the Dee Dee and Gypsy Rose Blanchard series. Today, we're going to cover very little of, it's basically going to cover where we left off from their arrests, and then brings us up to where we are today. Yeah. Finally. Yes. And we'll obviously give our final thoughts as well. But yeah, easy breezy and a lot of the more modern Gypsy Rose kind of situation. So we're going to dive into that. Is there anything you want to say before we do? A couple of things. Glad this series is over. I'm at the point now where I get into my Derek fatigue.

I do this on other series too, where I'm like, okay, I'm checked out, but you got to finish strong and we're going to do that tonight. And I said it on Crime Weekly News. I just want to say here very quickly, thank you to everyone who came out to the CrimeCon cruise. Obviously, Stephanie couldn't be there. But the well wishes and kind words that were passed along from you to her were greatly appreciated.

And shout out to Candace, someone who was going through a personal battle, was told by doctors she shouldn't come on the cruise. And yet she fought through it, got the approval, came out there, had a really great conversation with her and a lot of great conversations with many of you. It was an amazing experience. It was my first one, one I won't forget. So thank you for that.

And for anyone who couldn't make it, maybe we'll see you at CrimeCon in Denver and who knows, maybe we'll be back on a cruise next year. Now that I've gone out there, Stephanie, and kind of put the feelers out there and tested the waters, no pun intended, maybe you'll join the next one. Oh, definitely. I definitely, I mean, I'm still scared. I mean, listen, I got to tell you, these cruise ships are massive, but it actually felt very small. I don't know. Would you get sick of me after seven days trapped on a boat with me, though? No, definitely not.

But I would get sick probably from the motion of the water. It wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. I will say there was some choppy water with the tropical storm that we went through. But other than that, it wasn't terrible. And I think just overall, what was being covered there and, you know, shout out to Cheryl McCollum, Paul Holes, Nate Eden, Chris Hansen, Matt Murphy, and everyone at the CrimeCon team. Just an incredible experience. Just really smart people who've done a lot in their careers and getting to hear from them and getting their feedback on stuff.

I covered a case, Robin Pope, which we covered on Crime Weekly. I did a crowd solve with it. And Paul Holes actually was in the audience. And at one point came up on the stage and he was, he was just, he was interested in a specific photo that I showed. He was like literally dissecting it. And we were going back and forth, like debating some things and it wasn't even planned. And people were saying that was the best part of that whole presentation to hear us kind of just think tank what this, what this photo could be. It was a t-shirt wrapped around her hand. You know, was it binding? Was it during a struggle? And we were just kind of riffing right there. So cool experience. We're looking forward to doing it again. And CrimeCon wants to do a more, a bigger, more involved

crowd solve at maybe the actual CrimeCon event. So stay tuned for that. Oh, yeah. That would be awesome. I love doing the CrowdSolve stuff. I've just never been able to participate because we're always on Podcast Row. Yes. No, it's something that they want to do.

It was very well received and maybe we will do it in the future. It's a lot. It's a lot. You got to get permission from the departments and stuff like that. So thank you to everyone who came. Never get tired of meeting you guys. And it's great to sit down, have conversations, have a couple of drinks, talk about where you are in life, what you like about the show, what you don't. One thing that someone came up to me and talked to me about, it was kind of funny. It was during another presentation where they're like,

we need closed captions. And I'm like, I'm trying, but it's like, they have it for YouTube, but it kind of sucks. You have to get a third-party person to do it. And they're like, listen, I'm always listening to your show while I'm at work or watching it, so I can't have the volume on. And I'm like, so you're watching two-hour videos at work. I don't want to know where you work. Everyone started laughing. It was great. I put subtitles on for everything because of ADHD.

So I completely get that because I watch and my eyes are on the screen, but I find if I don't see the words, my brain starts to travel. And then I realize, oh, I haven't been paying attention this whole time. So then I got to rewind it. But with the captions on, it like locks me in. I think we have them on for ours too, but I don't know.

I'm going to look into it. The YouTube ones are a little janky. And I will say when I put them on for my channel, I have to go into the transcript. And I do. I can't edit the whole thing. It would take forever. But I'll go through and see if there's any names or words that are egregiously misspelled.

And then I'll fix those. But yeah. Well, that's the thing. That's the feedback, right? We get some of it in the comments. But it's nice to hear from people in person and have a conversation about life. The election was going on while we were on the boat. Just a really interesting week overall, but glad to have done it.

We'll be there again at some point. A lot of people talking about Gypsy Rose too. What do they say? I got to tell you, it's mixed. I got some blowback for sure. I definitely got some blow. I had some all cordial, by the way but i got i've gotten some some healthy in person people know how they're awesome yeah they were great they

were fine we were respectfully disagreeing over our dinner but it was fun it was fun i enjoy it it was fun people are allowed to have different opinions of course that's it wouldn't be fun if they exactly so we were we were good but yeah, people were invested in this series. So for everyone on the cruise. I, too, am invested. Here's part seven. Yeah. Coming your way. All right. So after their police interview, both Gypsy and Nick were charged with murder and held at the Waukesha County Jail while they awaited extradition.

Now, the news reports coming out at that time were not talking about child abuse. They were not talking about Monshausen by proxy, and neither were the police investigating the crime. Greene County Sheriff Jim Arnott announced that they had uncovered what appeared to be a long financial fraud scheme, and the media reported details that Gypsy Rose and her mother, Dee Dee, had been living a secret life. According to Fox 6, quote, at a news conference Tuesday, Greene County Sheriff Jim Arnott said, this murder investigation has uncovered a long history of mystery and public deception, citing multiple birthday dates for Gypsy on a probable cause statement used as the basis for charges in this murder case. Sheriff Arnott has even gone so

far as to caution the public to be careful about donating to GoFundMe.com accounts set up to help the family. He said, quote, we really don't know the background of this family, end quote. The Kansas City Star reported that Gypsy and Dee Dee had apparently perpetrated a longstanding deception of illness to garner money and sympathy. The Kansas City Star also reported that a prosecutor told the court that Gypsy wanted Nicholas Godejohn to kill her mother so they could be together. Court documents added that Nick at one point had asked Gypsy if she was sure that she wanted him to kill her mother, and she said yes. A woman named Anna Condren, who had lived next door to Gypsy and Dee Dee for seven years, said she was surprised because the pair had seemed like the nicest people in the world, especially Dee Dee. Condon said, quote, it was hard not to be friendly with Dee Dee. She was the nicest person in the world, always a positive attitude, very encouraging, seemed like a loving and caring mom, end quote. Something else interesting that I read in the

Springfield News Leader was an interview with Larry Peterson, the executive director of Habitat for Humanity in Springfield. Now, Peterson said he stood by Habitat's selection process, and he said it appears as though the Blanchards had met that criteria. He went on to say that it was too early to speculate on whether or not Habitat for Humanity had been duped by Gypsy and Dee Dee. So in June of 2015, Gypsy Rose pleaded not guilty to murder during her first appearance in Greene County. Her public defender, attorney Michael Stanfield, asked the judge if Gypsy's case could be separated from Nicholas Godejohn's. But prosecutor Dan Patterson said he wanted the two cases tied together and tried together.

So Michael Stanfield announced that he would not be using a plea of not guilty by reason of mental disease or deficit, but this did not mean he wouldn't use Gypsy's alleged Munchausen by proxy condition in her defense. And that brings us to a June 2015 article in the Springfield Newsletter, quote, a relative told the Newsleader about years of strange behavior, especially related to Gypsy Blanchard's true physical state. So droves of captivated readers stepped forward like amateur sleuths with this diagnosis, Munchausen by proxy. It was posted everywhere by people reading stories and making judgments about what was happening. Dr. Ann Rost, the assistant head of the psychology department at Missouri State University, has studied the syndrome, which actually has a new name, fictitious disorder,

end quote. So this article goes on to say that Dr. Ross talked about how rare this disorder is, how difficult it is to diagnose. And when asked if the case of Gypsy Rose met the criteria, she said it was difficult to make that diagnosis, quote, for one, the victim, usually a child, isn't aware of the deception. It's unclear to this point how much Gypsy Blanchard knew about her condition, but she certainly knew she could walk. Also, Rost said there's a similar but different disorder in which people fake issues, medical issues for financial gain. That's called malingering. And she said, quote, I don't have the details of this case, but certainly it appears they were benefiting financially, Rost said. End quote.

Makes me feel good to know we covered a lot of this. Seems we were on the right track. It's interesting because the first news articles, what the media was talking about at first wasn't like, oh, Gypsy was a victim. It was this was a scheme perpetrated by both Gypsy and Dee Dee. And then even Dr. Ann Rost is like, well, fictitious disorder is so, so, so difficult to diagnose. So I can't diagnose this. But it does appear that they were benefiting financially, which would be closer to the malingering. Yes. And like I said, the first people that start talking about could it be manchasm aren't like really medical professionals.

It's just these amateur sleuths, the general public, looking at these true crime cases and making determinations and making theories about what they believe happened. Yep. Yeah, no, it is subjective. And obviously now, in hindsight, Gypsy's playing this up and saying this is what happened. And a lot of people are taking her at her word. And there is some video to support it. I've voiced my opinions on it. I don't want to be redundant. I do believe that Gypsy was abused.

To what extreme? I don't know. I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm an expert on what was going on in Gypsy Rose's life. We weren't there. I don't know. But there is some video evidence that suggests that as a parent myself, there was opportunities to step in and say, this is wrong and we shouldn't be doing this. And I'm the adult in this situation. And I'm here to tell you as your parent, this is not acceptable. And she didn't do that. So there was something going on there. To what extreme?

I don't know. I do question some of the things that Gypsy said after the murders, because it would be very easy to take a true story and embellish it for the sake of defense. And it's not, that's not specific to Gypsy Rose. That's a lot of offenders that we come across. There's always an explanation as to why they did it. Not even just for murder. Of course, of course. An explanation to them, right? Their justification for why they did it. Their motive, yeah. You know, this is something that I think pulls on the heartstrings of a lot of people, understandably so, because people who

are listening and watching this case and watching our show, they have experienced true cases of child abuse or maybe even abuse in adulthood, maybe domestic violence. And so when they hear about a victim and people doubting her, her accounts of what happened, I'm sure it's, it's tough for them to hear that because they may have been in a similar situation where they've reported something and weren't believed. So I can understand. See, for me, I feel like it would be the opposite. Like people who had experienced child abuse on par with what Gypsy is describing. And then knowing that they grew into adults and did not murder their parent,

you know, and to look at Gypsy and be like, you know, we all went through it. We, I went through it too. But at the end of the day, murder is illegal. So it doesn't matter whether you want to call it the motive or the justification, murder is illegal. And I knew enough to know that that was the case. And I didn't do that.

You didn't have to do that either. And you're making all of us look bad kind of thing. Definitely two schools of thought on it. I can tell you that. And it't have to do that either, and you're making all of us look bad kind of thing. Definitely two schools of thought on it. I can tell you that. And it goes back to the crime crews, right? Because I'm on there, and these arguments are the ones that we're having. These are the debates we're having.

And as much as I push one direction, they push just as hard the other. So that's why this case is so polarizing. I think the reason we're covering it is because a lot of people, even to this day, are still talking about it. And they're talking about it for the reasons you just mentioned, coupled with other things as well. It's not because Gypsy was famous or anything beforehand. It's because of also how heinous the murder was itself. I didn't realize that in her

last moments that Dee Dee was calling out, for my opinion, the same person who was responsible for her murder. I mean, that's horrific. So I didn't know those details. And now knowing them, and as we've covered the case, it just, I can understand why people are so enamored by this entire investigation. When you were talking about, you know, the abuse that Gypsy claimed after the murder.

Correct, yeah. I don't believe that happened. I know you don't. Gypsy claimed after the murder. Correct, yeah. I don't believe that happened. I know you don't. I don't believe that happened. Nobody watching or listening. I don't believe that she was tied to a table. I don't believe she was chained to her bed. I don't believe she was punched and hit and all of these things because you're sitting in the police station.

You and your boyfriend have been caught. You know very well what you just did. And you know you're smart enough to know that the police might figure it out. Because they're talking to Nick Gorijan. And we all know he's not the epitome of, you know, resilience. Okay? So they're going to grind him down. He's going to tell them that you were the one who planned this. It's the perfect time now before he does that to be like, listen, not sit there and bullshit everybody.

I loved my mother. She was my best friend. She was – yeah, she was horrible to me. She beat me. She chained me to a table. She chained me to the bed. This is when you say it, not after you've been caught, arrested, and they know everything. Because then it just seems like you're adding on details to make it look worse than it was now that you're taking a

self-defense stance. When you were first interviewed by the police, you're like, my mother's amazing. Even telling Nick Odejan, my mother's amazing. She was the best mother ever. She never told Nick Odejan that she was hit, beat, abused, any of this. So you're telling me that you told Nick Odejan everything else, that you were Nick Odejan everything else, that you were forced to be in a wheelchair, that you were forced to have a feeding tube, but you failed to mention that your mother was beating the crap out of you and chaining you to the table? You never told him that? I don't believe that happened. I don't. And I don't think you're the only person that feels that way.

What do you feel? Well, I don't agree with you, but that's- You don't. You think she was beat and chained to the table and she didn't tell the police about it and instead told the police knowing her mother's dead and there's nothing that your mother can do to you anymore. So you can't say you're scared to come forward and tell the truth. She said the police and said, my mother's my best friend. I love her. I would never hurt her. There's multiple questions in there. If you're asking me if that would have been the time to disclose that information, completely agree with you, completely agree with you. And I'll even to stay on your side for a second. I don't know if it's more compelling to me that she didn't say

it to the detectives. I actually think it's more compelling that none of this was mentioned in those text messages that we went over extensively last week. To me, that's the moment where when you're talking about the motive for killing her, you would reemphasize to the person who's going to be stabbing your mother, this is why you're doing it. And she did emphasize why he was doing it. It was for quote unquote, them to be together. This is life with me on the line. That's it. There was no mention of you're saving me. So to me, that is the most compelling argument. There was no mention of, hey, you know, if she finds you in the house, run.

But also understand that I'll probably be locked and chained to my bed again for another two weeks. No mention of that. And to me, that is the strongest argument. Because she never told him this stuff. He said that she's never told him that her mother abused her physically, chained her to the bed, et cetera. So to wrap this up, I believe there was some level of child abuse. To what level? I don't know. And I don't think we'll ever know. There's always that three sides to every story.

Well, here, that's not the case. There's two because it's gypsy and the truth. And we don't have DD side. But this is what I will say. And this is me agreeing with you. Regardless of what child abuse occurred. There is no evidence that gypsy was in fear of Dede or more of these incidences happening. She never mentioned it as the reason behind any of this. So to that argument that

you're making, it would be suggested that maybe the child abuse wasn't that extreme as she has proclaimed because if it was i would think she would have mentioned that somewhere in these dms and text messages that were not meant to be seen by us so the fact that it wasn't mentioned i do think leans more toward you when you're talking about a spectrum of violence if it's one to ten maybe it's more closer to the three, four range than what she's conveying. Because if it weren't, if that wasn't the case, I think there would have been some mention of that throughout the communications between her and Nicholas go to John. How's that sound? I, yes, I do. I just want to be very, like, I don't say she wasn't abused saying obviously this is not a normal childhood.

Right. No. And she would have no control and no say in how she was raised from the time she was a baby. Right. But do I think she was punched, hit, chained to the table? No, I don't. Because none of that ever was told to a single living soul until after she was on the line for murder. And whatever you say after you are caught and charged with murder, that was never said to anybody before.

And I'm not just saying publicly said. I mean, nobody, none of her friends, Nick Godejohn, nobody come out and be like, oh, yeah, this is it. Yeah, this definitely happened because she said it did. I don't trust it. That's all I'm saying, because now you're defending yourself. Well, that's that's the thing. And I had made this argument multiple times where I think anybody with a functioning brain would approach her statements now with some level of skepticism because of the environment they're being set in.

She's actively defending herself from a murder charge. That's all I want from you guys out there. You can admit that she had a really troubled, toxic, and damaging childhood. A hundred percent. There's evidence of that. But you also have to look at her statements made after the murder with skepticism because she is a known liar. And I don't say that in an insulting way. She's a self-proclaimed known liar. She said it. I didn't know if I should go into the parole board and just lie and tell them what they wanted to hear, you know? So she said it years later. So that's all I'm saying.

Let's take a quick break. We're going to take a break so you guys can comment down below how much you hate us. Thank you. Go for it. We'll be right back. Okay. OK, so as I had mentioned previously, the Greene County prosecutor, Dan Patterson, he wanted to try Gypsy and Nick together. Right. Her attorney was like, can we separate these? Which we know that people like to do that.

And and the the prosecutor, Dan Patterson, was like, no, I want them tried together. Now, in your experience, Derek, what does it usually mean when the DA or the prosecutor wants these defendants who have maybe elaborated a plot together, tried together in the same trial? Well, I mean, I personally have never had this happen to me before. It's always been separate. But my takeaway, as you asked me that question, would be he feels they're both equally culpable. He doesn't want one getting a better sweetheart deal than the other. He wants whatever one did, it's the other. If one might have held the knife, but the other one plotted it, it's a conspiracy charge. Therefore, even if Gypsy wasn't holding the knife, she doesn't want her getting a better deal than Nicholas Godejohn. The prosecutor wants the jury to look at them as equal partners. It doesn't matter who was the one who actively participated in the murder itself. These two go hand in hand. And without each other, the murder doesn't happen. He doesnations, after they've been arrested, after he's seen the messages, after he's seen all of the details and evidence in this case.

But then suddenly, in July of 2016, Dan Patterson made a deal with Gypsy. If she pleaded guilty to second-degree murder, she would be offered a sentence of 10 years in prison, which is the minimum sentence for second degree murder in the state of Missouri. Now, in no goddamn way, shape or form, could you look at what she did, the premeditation that was involved in this and ever, ever, ever say that was second degree murder ever? This is where you and I agree. I just think I just said two seconds before. I don't think she would ever have physically murdered Dee Dee herself, but I also don't think Nicholas go to John would have ever murdered Dee Dee Blanchard if it wasn't for what Gypsy had said and manipulated him into doing it. So one doesn't wash the hand without

the other. And if you do, you agree or disagree that if Nick go to John had and said, yes, Gypsy would have found somebody who did say yes. Potentially. Yeah. Potentially. Yeah. She would have kept going. So I, yeah, I agree with you on this. This is where Nicholas go to John still in prison. Gypsy is not. I don't see how that happened. And we're going to give our findings at the end. I don't want to get into that now.

And then there's nothing to talk about as we wrap it up. But yeah, I just don't understand it. As I sit here right now, you're telling me after going through the six parts that we have and knowing the two parties involved, that one is a free person and the other one's still in prison. I would say, what are you talking about? So I don't get it. I don't get it. I know there are mitigating circumstances and that's what people are going to push back on.

But we'll get there at the end and we can have that conversation. the prosecutor, he later told the Springfield Newsleader that he believed he could have secured a first-degree murder conviction for Gypsy and she would have spent the rest of her life in prison. But he ended up feeling that that was unfair because of what Gypsy had suffered through at the hands of her mother. He said, quote, when you look at this case, it's a murder and it's a first-degree murder, but it's also one of the most extraordinary and unusual cases we've seen. End quote. Mike Stanfield, who was Gypsy's defense lawyer, he told reporters that he would have gone to trial using the abuse as a defense. But when asked if he believed he could convince a jury that Gypsy's actions were justified, he was like, I mean, I think that her taking the deal was the best move,

meaning he didn't really think that he could convince a jury that her actions were justified. And I agree. I think those DMs would have crushed her. And not only that, but all of this extreme abuse that she was referring to, which I keep bringing up the hitting and the slapping and the punching and tying her to the table and chaining her to the bed. There's no evidence of that. So you can't even introduce that into a trial when you have nothing to back it up with. Menendez brothers, would you agree that they were more abused than Gypsy? Oh, that's a slippery slope. I can't believe you asked me that. I don't know. I don't know because I don't think any of us know the extent of how much they were abused or how much she was abused. But I say this because at least their version of what happened is horrific, right?

And their version of what happened is backed up with photographs. And what happened to them? I mean, there was, yeah, exactly. Where are they right now? Life in prison. And there was aunts and uncles who were like, yeah, we saw Jose beat the shit out of these kids with our own eyes. That's what I'm saying. They literally said, hey, you can't do that.

And Jose was like well then get out so my point being it's not about who was abused more they're they're they're uh versions of what happened to them at the hands of their father just even when you were going through that was horrible to listen to and to hear how emotional they were when describing what had happened to them both guilty first degree murder right That's what the jury said in California. Yeah. And this is Springfield, Missouri. Yeah. I agree with Mike where if this had gone to trial, it would have been an uphill battle. And when they got offered this deal, they probably couldn't sign it fast enough. Oh yeah. Sign that gypsy, sign it right now before they change their mind. Why did they get offered the deal though? That is the question I keep

coming back to. Well, they said it. He just told you why. He did. He said based on what she'd been through. But once again, her own defense attorney doesn't think based on what she went through that the jury would even believe that or believe it made her actions justifiable. And that's why he's like,

I think her taking the deal was the best move for her. I think at the time he was just maybe concerned that he didn't want them both to walk. And so he figured, hey, I get one for 10 and one for life. That's better than two for nothing. Well, that's really, that's monstrous, honestly. Like you just, okay, you sacrifice Nick Godejohn. And like, I'm not sitting here, I'm not team Nick Godejohn, by the way. I'm not like, he should be walking free. I don't think that. He's not a safe person if he allowed some little girl with a high pitched voice to freaking convince him to do the unspeakable.

So you're not a safe person either. But one is not so smart and one is devious. And the one who's not so smart ends up spending his entire life in prison while the devious one gets out to deviate some more. A lot of people in the comments agree with that sentiment to that. Listening to Gypsy during that interrogation, she seemed pretty sharp. She is. She seemed pretty sharp. I don't think I anticipated that. Yeah. I wasn't expecting that. And then I started hearing her speak and correcting the detective when he tried to slide a certain type of phrasing in there. She's like, nah, that's not what I said. Yeah. He's like, why did Nick do it? I didn't

say he did. Exactly. I didn't say he did, bitch. No, she was on the ball. She's like, yeah. She's like, yeah, wake up earlier in the day to get Gypsy Rose Blanchard. She was on the ball. You with your accents. Jesus. How many do you have? Which one? No, that's not an accent. It's a voice. That was like a Southern. I don't know. I didn't say he did, officer. No, I don't know. No, you had more of like a Southern belle. I don't know. It just went right. Oh, like a Vivian Leigh in Gone with the Wind. Sure. You know, Scarlett O'Hara. No? Nothing? You got nothing?

Yeah, nothing. If you haven't seen Gone with the Wind yet, I don't know what to do with you. Haven't. All right. Okay. Okay. So on the subject of fraud, which we know the Greene County Sheriff believed both Gypsy and Dee Dee were involved in, the prosecutor, Dan Patterson, said he felt Dee Dee was primarily responsible for it, which is like a, yeah, no doubt kind of moment. But all right. So the Nicholas Godejohn trial

began on November 13th, 2018. We don't need to talk a lot about this because we know what happened, but here are the highlights. One of the prosecutors, Nathan Chapman, dove into the opening statements telling the jury that Nicholas loved Gypsy so much he was more than willing to remove the one thing that she told him stood between them, which was her mother. In their opening statement, defense attorney Andrew Mead described Nick's rough start in life, the fact that he was born with the umbilical cord wrapped around his neck, being diagnosed with autism in elementary school, a lack of emotional support at home from his parents, being chronically online as a teen, which meant that the majority of his peers were also online-only friends. And because of Nick's autism diagnosis, he saw the world differently. And due to his low IQ and cognitive disabilities, Nick would be unable to form the

necessary mental state to commit first-degree murder. Then Gypsy Rose herself testified, telling the judge and jury that the plan to kill her mother was hers, but she only did it because she thought it was her only way out of a life of captivity and abuse. She claimed that her entire life, Dee Dee had hit her, punched her, kept her prisoner, and starved her. Gypsy then followed this up by saying that she had put forward a second plan in which her mother would not have had to have died, but Nicholas rejected this plan. What was this plan, you might ask? Well, Gypsy said that it was either her mother died or Gypsy would be impregnated by Nicholas Godejohn. Allegedly, Nick did want Gypsy to get pregnant, but his mother wouldn't let him, so it had to be the murder plan. I don't really believe this either because it's not like you need your mother's permission to impregnate somebody. So if Nick wanted to get Gypsy pregnant and he knew that this would mean he didn't have to kill Dee Dee, then why wouldn't you just have gotten together and instead of killing Dee Dee, spent these three days, you know, fucking like rabbits and then you get pregnant. Okay. So like, it's not like your mom's going to be, you know, watching you and following you to Springfield and being like, Hey, you can't do this.

You could have just done it. And that would mean that you didn't have to murder somebody. Well, I mean, unless there's something that we don't have access to, whether it's the other forms of communication that they were using or, or something like that to document that this was an alternative uh it doesn't seem to have a lot of weight to me because what we do have is this plot for murder that was very uh detailed and descriptive as far as what they were going to do how they were going to do it and when they were going to do it so if there's this other version that they're putting forward uh

there's no evidence of it at least from what we've seen during the series and if there is let us know but i would think that if there was we would have documentation of it, at least from what we've seen during the series. And if there is, let us know. But I would think that if there was, we would have documentation of it. And more than likely, it would have been mentioned in one of these DMs, in one of these conversations. Remember, there was a time where Gypsy was like, oh, she missed her period, stuff like that. And she was talking about she might be pregnant. Nicholas wasn't like, oh, great.

We don't have to kill your mom now. You're pregnant, you know? I mean, listen, it might have been talked about in passing, but I can also see it being a version where there was an, if Gypsy's the one steering the ship, and I believe that she was, right? It could have been a feeler thing, right? She's, it's part of this kind of grooming, this manipulation. You start off easy. Hey, how much can I get this person to do? It may be as simple as trying to get them to the bathroom to have sex, like little things like this to try to see how compliant and,

and how receptive he will be to her, her wishes, her demands. And so you start with that. And then maybe you go to, you know, I could just get pregnant. Maybe that'll get her to like you. And yeah, yeah, I'm down for that too. And then it goes to this extreme. So there may have been a brief conversation about it, but I don't think it was a true actual intention where they were like, you know what, let's go that route. And then, oh, you know what? People are stopping us from doing it.

So we can't, let's just, let's just jump over to murder because that'll be more socially acceptable than getting pregnant, quote unquote, accidentally. So it doesn't hold a lot of weight to me. I think we'd have more evidence of it. And I think the defense would have been laying that case out even before it went to trial, if that were true. Now, and that said, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Like I said, it's very likely they did have a conversation about getting pregnant. And based on what we've seen in the text messages, I'm sure they talked about that. They were. They always did. They they talked about having kids.

We know. Remember, Nick's mom said when she was talking to the police that Gypsy was posting about it on Facebook. Right. You know, so I don't think. There is truth to it, but not as far as it being a plan. There's truth to she wanted to get pregnant and have kids. She always every time she's with a dude, she's like, we're going to have kids soon. Like every single time.

Yeah. So I think that is just something. I think that a lot of people who have tumultuous and toxic childhoods who don't have the best or most secure relationship with their caregivers, they often do want to become parents because it is this promise of unconditional love, which you never felt you received in childhood. That's sad. Sad. It is very sad. Dude, it's very sad. But it's not a reason to want to have a baby with just the first person that, you know, winks at you. But I think you're right. That's more likely the reason than, oh, let's have a baby because that way we can be together and we don't have to kill Dee Dee. Doesn't seem like that was heavily discussed. Maybe mentioned in passing, but not talked about mother to be dead because I didn't want my mother to hurt my children the way that she had hurt me.

That I could buy. That I could buy. But to say, oh, it was either we got pregnant or Dee Dee died, that I don't. It doesn't make any sense. There's no correlation because you can always just get pregnant anyways. Like, just do it. If that's, like, what it is to you and it means your mother doesn't have to die, then that's what it is. Like, yeah, I could have bought her saying Deedee would have been toxic to my own children.

So therefore, I could not move on, have a husband and have children while my mother still lived because she would have insisted on being a part of my life. She would insist on being a part of their lives. And I didn't want her to repeat the same toxic cycles with them. I would have bought that. But otherwise, no. No evidence of it. And if she could have gone that route and it went to trial, she might have. Let's let's take a second break. We'll be right back. All right. So once again, when asked whose idea it was to kill Didi, Gypsy said, quote,

at Nicholas Godejohn's trial, she said, quote, I talked him into it, end quote. And when asked why she didn't do it herself, Gypsy said, quote, I don't like blood. I don't like the sight of blood. I don't believe I could do it on my own, end quote. That means something to me. It literally means like, yeah, I wanted her dead, but I just didn't think I could do it myself. It wasn't something I could ever with my own hands do and that i believe that i definitely believe and i i think she did have true feelings for nicholas but i think she also saw him as a tool i don't think she had true feelings as a weapon none whatsoever none zero so you think after this happened if she got away with it she would have dumped him. So you think after this happened, if she got away with it, she would have dumped him?

Yes. Interesting. You think this was a means to an end from start to finish? Yes. No true feelings. The way that she took the murder weapon, the knife, and put it in a box and sent it to Nick's house, and then they were going to get rid of it, that's exactly what she would have done to Nicholas Godedon, because he was a tool, an instrument, a weapon, just like the knife, just like a gun. And she wanted to get rid of him as soon as possible

because he connected her to this horrible thing. Yes. Okay. Do you guys agree with Stephanie? Let us know. I think she wanted to live a life without Dee Dee interfering. And it wouldn't matter whether it was with Nick

or any other man who would be her prince charming like she would have held on to nick as long as he served her purposes as long as he did what she wanted but the second she met somebody else who was you know more sharp or more you know pro gypsy or you know you know what i mean hadn't had all these negative experiences with that like tainted the bond between them she would have been she would have moved on this isn't somebody she would have been with forever you know what i mean like this wasn't somebody it was just in that moment from the beginning she saw him as this is the person yeah i think she knew he was the person that she could convince to do it yeah i don't know i don't think and it's not that she didn't think she had true feelings for him. I just don't think she has really true feelings for anybody like you.

She was never taught what what a real healthy bond and an attachment looks like. She was taught how to use and manipulate people. So that's what she does. I don't think it's even a cognizant or conscious decision. It's just how she operates. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I think it's tough to ever really know because only Gypsy does, right? Like she knows, she's the only one who truly knows what her intentions were in the beginning

and how she felt. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but if the only other angle you could have is where they're together and it starts off where they're just curious about each other. Maybe there's some feelings there. And once she realizes who Nicholas is and what he's willing to do for her, the relationship evolved into something that was romantic in nature to, as you mentioned, a weapon, a tool in something that she had been wanting to do for a while. And so she decided that, hey, I know what he's motivated by. He wants to be with me. He wants to have sex. I can use those things to get him to do what I want. And maybe there was a transition where it went from her wanting to be with him to her wanting to use him.

I agree. And I think that she convinced herself that she had feelings for him and that she loved him because she has to convince herself that she's a good person in this situation. But I think once she was sitting in that police station and it was very clear to her, like it's me or him. She wasn't like, okay, solidarity. She wasn't like, okay. Oh no, I agree with that. She always knew that was the backup plan. Yeah. She immediately was like, it's me. It's me. Oh, I agree with that 100%. It knew that was the backup plan. Yeah. She immediately was like, it's me. It's me. Oh, I agree with that 100%. It's always me first.

Yeah. She played this out in her head and she said, hey, if by chance we get caught, I'm throwing him under the bus. I'm throwing him under the bus, man. Jack is not hanging onto that board anymore. Okay. No, he can be collateral damage in this. I'm okay with that. I'm okay with that.

Yeah. He can be the scapegoat. He's my plan. He is my plan B. Exactly. I completely agree. But like I said, I think she convinces herself that she has these strong feelings for people so that she doesn't feel as bad about using them. I would also argue that a major reason why she defended him so profusely, at least in the first part of that interrogation, I wouldn't even say profusely, least in the first part of that interrogation i wouldn't even say profusely she broke after a couple hours but the fact that she defended him initially was because she knew what he knew and that it could hurt her i don't think she was doing it for him she was doing it for more a self-serving purpose i think she also knew that it would look terrible yeah because she had been

saying something else the whole time yeah like what's going on she's like he did it i didn't do anything like you know like it would look it would look kind of like she's just going with whatever story is convenient. So that's why she held on. And she was consistent for a while. Now, Nicholas Godejana, as we know, was found guilty of first degree murder and he was sentenced to life in prison without the chance of parole. And Gypsy went off to spend a few years in prison before being allowed to move on with her life. An interesting detail that Gypsy gave us in one of the many documentaries she participated in while she was in prison was that she had developed an addiction to painkillers. She said she would often steal her mother's pain pills, and this had created a dependency that on the night that her mother was murdered, Gypsy had been abusing pain medication and her addiction had actually been so intense that it remained with her in prison and it got her in some trouble with a few of the other

women in prison who would provide her pills that she was unable to pay for and she had to eventually call her stepmother christy and get help and like have money sent there because she had basically ordered up all these pain pills and then the the prison drug dealers came calling and she didn't have the money to pay them. So I think it's a little bit interesting that she was abusing pain medication at the time that this murder was perpetrated. Probably didn't help her decision-making skills, that's for sure. Did not. Did not. After the 2017 HBO documentary Mommy, Dead and Dearest aired, a man named Ken Unker wrote Gypsy a letter of support in prison. And then he and Gypsy became pen pals from that moment forward. But it was more than friendship for Ken, who also visited Gypsy in prison and took the opportunity to express his true feelings. Gypsy said, quote, he came and it was kind of a funny story, but within the first 30 minutes he leaned over and gave me the most wonderful kiss of my whole life. The kiss he gave me was quite passionate. I looked at him and was like,

I didn't even know you liked me like that. And he said, yeah, I have for a while. And I'm like, I have for a while too. End quote. See what you do there? See what you do there? What did I do? You're manipulating us. What did I do? The voices you use. Oh, I didn't even realize. You could just read it, but no, you have to add in this like devious, like, I don't know what you're doing there.

You know what you're doing. What? Just sounding like a little girl? Yeah. Or Mickey Mouse. Oh my God, I haven't figured it out yet. In October of 2018, while Gypsy was still behind bars, Ken asked her to be his wife and she said yes. In the summer of 2019, Gypsy, who had suddenly become a celebrity influencer due to all the media buzz about her,

let the world know that she and Ken were going to get married and then they were going to wait a few years to have children, but they were definitely going to have children. Gypsy has said that Ken was her first love. He was understanding and supportive with her from day one. He was easy to talk to, but then not long after talking about how many kids they were going to have, the engagement between Gypsy and Ken was called off. According, I know, right? Shocker. According to the internet, this happened for a multitude of reasons. The long-distance nature of it was difficult, especially when the prison that Gypsy was serving time at began limiting her phone time.

Also, Gypsy was young when she and Ken became close. She still had a lot to learn about herself and about relationships. Additionally, Gypsy had become well-known in the public eye and the media, and public attention was not something that Ken wanted. So after splitting from Ken, Gypsy began chatting with Ryan Anderson, another man she met through the prison pen pal program. My name is Ryan Anderson and Gypsy Rose Blanchard is my fiance. I first learned about Gypsy watching her story. Her story, you know, just hit me and I thought, gosh, she's cute. You know, like one of those things where I was like, Gypsy's very cute. Tiger King was very popular at the time. And so my friend said, oh, I really want to write Tiger King.

And I said, okay, well, I'll make a deal with you. I said, you write Tiger King, I'll write Gypsy Rose Blanchard. And that's what happened. The thing that stuck out the most about Ryan's letter is not only how genuine it came across, but also how like, how funny he is. His sense of humor was great. And I just vibed with that very well. She's talked to a lot of people, you know, but she chose a Louisiana boy for a reason, I guess. And I made her laugh, and that was the most important thing. Ryan and I, our relationship is just, it's goofy.

It's a little bit of everything. I think he compliments me really well. He has more of a softer side. He calms almost like a storm that's inside my soul. When I heard Gypsy's story, I felt sad for her. I felt like I couldn't judge her for that. I understood why she did it. You know, Gypsy felt like this was the only way out. I know Gypsy's the one because I feel it. You can feel that connection with somebody that you had.

I do believe I am the Prince Charming that Gypsy's been waiting for her whole life. I really do believe that. When Gypsy gets out, I plan on supporting her and doing what a husband's supposed to do to his wife. I'm a sixth grade social studies teacher. So, like, you know, I'm a teacher. I do okay. Part of me thinks that sometimes Gypsy might need saving, but at the same time, I need saving too. She saved me as much as I saved her. She deserves the best, especially with everything that's happened.

So, Stephanie, we can see each other, obviously. So we're watching the video. I'm watching it with you guys for the first time. And she's just, she's like your face while you're watching it it's like you're cracking me up i can't take it i just look back from the clip and i see you and you're like yeah i don't really got this little smile on your face like i don't really know i mean listen ryan was his name ryan anderson yeah i don't know man i don't know know. I mean, listen, Ryan was his name. Ryan Anderson. I don't know, man. I don't know what to say without getting myself canceled. It's just one of those things where I don't get it. I don't get it why you would choose to write to someone in prison. The whole thing is, but if you don't know them, you know, it seems a little odd to me too. Because his friend was going to write to Tiger King. That's what the whole thing is.

And so he was going to write to Tiger King. And so he was going to write to Gypsy. Yeah, to me, it's a little odd. I think we can do better. I think we can do better. And I wouldn't be personally writing to anybody who's in prison for murder, but to each their own. And I will say this, if they're happy with each other, regardless of what I think about Gypsy, good for them, I guess. Good for them. I know you're going through the timeline. regardless of what I think about Gypsy, you know, I'm good, good for them, I guess. Good for them. I don't, I know you're going through the timeline. I don't know if this is still the person she's with now, because I know there's been some, you know, development, so we won't go there. But as

far as this particular clip, she, she was getting a lot of emails. And one thing I will say about the photos, if you're watching on YouTube, it is tough to see those. I can separate the two because it doesn't appear that she was actually sick. Some people believe she was. But to see her in those positions in the hospital, in her bed with the oxygen tank, the shaved head, no kid should have to go through that. No kid. At the time when those photos were taken, she was innocent. And so.

But arguably, she may have also been she may have also been sick. Well, that's that's what I'm going to say. Here we go. That's the other side to it. Why the hell? Why the hell can't these doctors come out and confirm or deny one way or the other? They have not done that. They haven't come out and been like she 100 percent wasn't sick or bad.

And they haven't come out and been like she was sick and she needed this medical treatment i feel like because either way either either way they go they're gonna get backlash from somebody right that's that's the problem i and what we just described right there is i think what a lot of people who watch this series they're gonna go through because you're either gonna watch those photos and have some type of sympathy for Gypsy or you're going to watch those photos and say, OK, well, that's a girl who is sick and needed medical attention. Point blank. So where you fall on it, that's up to you. Let's take another break. We'll be right back.

All right. So, yes, now Gypsy and Ryan are together. They are in love, even though she was just in love with Ken and they were engaged. But now she's in love with Ryan. And because of the COVID-19 pandemic, Gypsy and Ryan couldn't meet in person until July of 2021. But Ryan stuck with her through all of this. She told People magazine, quote, we met in 2020 when the pandemic was really, really strong and I had a lot of emotional ups and downs because of COVID. Unfortunately, it put the prison in a position to where it restricted our freedom even more. So Ryan has seen me through some really good times, some really hard times. I would say that he is probably the most compassionate soul I've ever met and the most patient God knows. He's so patient with me because I could be a little bit of a lot to handle. I could be a handful, an emotional handful. We've been able to build this emotional bond that within two seconds of talking on the phone, he knows my emotions and he'll be like, are you okay? Do you want to talk about it?

So I'm thankful that I have a man that is open enough with his own emotions so I could let my emotions flow, end quote. She turns relationships, every relationship, even after she's been in prison for what she did, she turns every relationship into this fantasy thing where it's like larger than life, soul connections, universe, you know, twin flame. And just within a few seconds of being on the phone with me, he can tell my emotional state. Yeah, through your voice, dude. Like, yes, you probably answer the phone like, hello, sometimes. And he's like, what's wrong? Or if you don't, you're like, hello. He's like, oh, you're fine. It's not like you have some intrinsic universal connection. That's not what a true loving relationship is. A true loving relationship isn't like sparks flying and, oh, we're soulmates and he can just tell my emotional state within a

minute of being on the phone with me. No, it's like hard work and making the decision to choose each other every single day. And it's not flowery and it's not love notes and fireworks. It's a lot more boring and basic than that. And that's why you'll see that it seems she can't really sustain a relationship. So the happy couple obtained a marriage license on June 27th, 2022. And a month later, they got married in a prison ceremony with no guests. And once again, Gypsy wasted no time talking about how she and Ryan were going to have children together. But once Gypsy was out of prison, her relationship with Ryan became the center point of a Lifetime docuseries called Life After Lockup. And this is very much a reality show, like a kind of, I don't know, it's very much structured like a very, and you know,

we've seen a few clips, like a very dramatic, sensational sort of reality show that focuses on Gypsy's relationship with Ryan. And it kind of showed us all how a long distance phone relationship can't really be an indicator of compatibility. It can't be an indicator for what a relationship will be like once that physical distance is closed and once the mundane everyday sets in. Because as it turns out, it seemed like Gypsy didn't really like Ryan at all. And her heart still remained with an ex-boyfriend who was her real and true Prince Charming, not Nicholas Godejohn, but Ken Unker. So when Gypsy was released, she shot up to basically social media stardom with all of

her social accounts reaching millions of followers and Gypsy posting things several times a day. God, it's so freaking bright out here. I think I may jump in the water in a little bit. Thank y'all for the roses. Aw, thank you. Thea? Is that Thea? Thank you, Brittany.

How the times have changed. Gypsy had a glow-up, too. If you say. Gypsy had a glow up, too. If you say so. She had a glow up there. Come on. Good for her. You get it, girl. You do your thing.

Yeah. I'm just pissing you off now. She's also pregnant in this clip. She's glowing. Yes, she's glowing. I think this was right around the time she put her baby registry online and everybody bought her all her baby stuff. Let her live. Let Gypsy live.

And then when she saw that everybody had purchased her everything on her registry on top of e-begging, she added more things. E-begging. Yes, that's what she's doing. Is that a thing? Thank you for the roses. Thank you for the roses. Wait, is e-begging a thing? Yes, she's e-bagging dude people are just giving

her money no it's an actual thing i've never heard that that's hilarious well you gotta spend more time on tiktok because lots of e-baggers up over there really you've never heard this no never heard that oh yeah she's e-bagging. E-bagging. That's a good one. All right. So she's on here. She's just sitting by the pool in a bikini like, oh, it's hot out here. Thank you for the roses. Like, it's so weird.

You just got released from prison after murdering your mother. Like, it's so weird. It's weird. It is. It is. It is tough to when you say it like that to think. Yeah. Yeah.

And then she's putting her baby registry. It gets bought out and she's like, oh, everybody bought me everything that I want on my registry. Let me add more stuff so they can buy me more stuff. It's just it's gross. It's gross. So now the Lifetime series showed Gypsy and Ryan becoming progressively disenchanted with each other. And I don't mean to say that because it seemed like Ryan, Ryan would have been, I'm not saying whether he's a good person or a bad person, I don't know him, right? I don't know what the relationship was like behind closed doors. But

from what we saw outwardly, he probably would have, you know, been pretty much ride or die for her till the end. There was this weird fixation. She was a public figure. You know, his friends writing Tiger King, he's writing Gypsy. She writes back. He's stunned. He's a social studies teacher, which is kind of weird. And now he's going to he's going to he's married to Gypsy Rose. Wait, why is this?

Why is it weird that he's a social studies teacher? I don't know. Like, I feel like if I feel like there's gonna be some social studies teachers in the comments feeling attacked right now. You better take that back. No, I like social studies teachers. The way you framed it, it sounds like, oh, he's a social studies teacher, which is weird. I'm saying if he was one of my children's social studies teachers, and then I found out that he's writing some murderer in prison and then bringing her home to marry him, I'd be like, I don't really

know if I can trust the judgment of this person. And I don't really know if I want him teaching my children. Right. That's where I'm at. I think being a social studies teacher is awesome. In fact, I would love to marry a social studies teacher. There we go. But I don't want my social studies teacher or the social studies teacher of my child engaging with pen pailing with Gypsy Rose Blanchard, a convicted murderer, and then bringing her back home to the town where me and my children live to be his wife i think that his his that you're you're right in your assessment where his his way of thinking is questionable his rationale behind doing certain things his judgment yeah

judgment's off in my opinion all right so suddenly gy Gypsy kind of doesn't want to be with Ryan anymore, even though it's just been a few months that she's been out of prison, right? Once again, having a long-distance phone conversation when you're in prison and there's just women around you and you don't have a lot of options, that's fine. But when she gets out, what's happening? Well, there's all these sorts of people in her DMs, other men talking about her. Like you said, she had a glow-, quote unquote, whatever the hell that means, which she doesn't look the same as the Gypsy Rose we see in the pictures with the Coke bottle

glasses and the shaved head. She looks like a completely different person now. So there's other men in her DMs. And now she's suddenly like, oh, you know, did I choose this Ryan guy just because I didn't have a lot of options? But not only that, she's talking to some people from her past. Are you happy? Yes. I don't know why you think I'm not. And all of a sudden now you're not. Maybe I'm not. Okay. Tell me why.

I don't know. Look, I'm right here. Talk to me. There's just sometimes that I feel like we're different people. We are different people, but, like, we're not heading toward different things. Like, baby, it's okay to be different, but we... I know. We'll call Ken.

F***, you're probably already talking to him anyway. I'm not. You're not? Okay, then why all of a sudden are you not happy? Trouble in paradise. Yeah, well, when he says, go talk to Ken. Yeah. And she's like, I'm not. Yes, she was.

Yes, she was. Okay. The way she even said it, she's like, I'm not. Yeah, and he's like, okay, okay, you're not? Like, it's fine. Can we just be together and be happy then? Yeah. Like, believes that she's not. You know, you're not like, it's fine. Can we just be together and be happy then? Yeah. Like believes that she's not, you know, he knows that she's talking to him.

She knows that she's talking to him. And she was certainly thinking about Ken. But this conversation in the car kind of gets worse because this is basically Gypsy breaking things off with Ryan. When did this happen all of a sudden? When did you feel this unhappiness? Tonight? No. Let's do marriage counseling then. Let's go to counseling.

Let's at least try instead of just throwing the towel. Let's at least try. I mean, I'm in therapy. You're in therapy. I know, but I'm saying together. I'm saying together. We go in and we talk about this together. I don't want you to make a rash decision. I'm not going to make a rash decision.

You make rash decisions all the time. All the time. We were fine. There's times that we are fine. The majority, I guess, is fine. The majority. Like right now, you're having a bad day, so therefore you're not happy with this marriage.

Not every day is gonna be hunky dory, baby. Marriage is hard. Nobody said it was easy. There's gonna be days where you're like, oh, I just wanna a break or oh I just want to do this, oh I just need to get away. But you have to work at it. You have to want to work at it. Okay, right? And are you not wanting to fight for this anymore? No?

Okay. I mean, don't think that it doesn't hurt me. Yeah. Yeah. I just feel like somebody else can give you the love that you deserve. Oh, that's the worst. Someone else can give you the love you deserve. That's always the, you know, it's over at that point. It's not you, it's me.

Yeah, that's the worst. It's the worst line. In that moment, Ryan's heart was broken. So they're not together. They're not together, but they were married, right? They were married. And then they're not anymore. But the point is, he's married, right? They were married. And then they're not anymore. But the point is, he's like, I thought things were fine.

And she's like, yeah, I guess things for the most part are fine. And she says it like that. And the way she's saying it, it means like, yes, it's not exciting. It's not like, you know. Oh, no, she's over it. She's over it. She's speaking the universal language of I'm done. It's not the beginning honeymoon period.

You know, it's not like a constant drama thing. You're not telling him about all the shenanigans at prison. You're not talking about getting out, getting released. Before, there was always something happening. And now you're just a married woman with your husband going through normal married people stuff, which is usually just mundane day-to-day things, right? And she's over it. There's no dopamine coming to her anymore. And she hasn't created enough of a bond with him where those other bonding hormones like

vasopressin and oxytocin have kicked in to replace the dopamine that you lose after the first honeymoon period of the relationship. This is very common. And so she's done. She's done with Ryan. Gypsy and Ryan announced their separation only three months after her release from prison. She wrote on Facebook that she was moving in with her parents. Not long after this announcement, like very shortly after this announcement, Gypsy was spotted hanging out with her ex-fiance, Ken Arker. She also claimed that Ryan was controlling and wanted to keep her away from her friends and family so that he could have her to himself. Ryan said that Gypsy wanted out of her marriage and wanted to go back to Ken and that this came out of the blue. He told the Daily Mail in April, quote, I had no idea she still had such strong feelings for him. I haven't spoken to her, so I don't know what's going on. I'm at a loss. I'm really not doing well at all, end quote. So also keep in mind, both Gypsy and Ryan took to social media. So their show is still coming out after their breakup. So they break up, they separated, they're going through divorce. The show, Life After Lockup, which is

like chronicling their marriage, is still coming out as they're going through this breakup. And they're both kind of on social media giving their own versions of what happened. Well, Gypsy's basically on social media streaming with Ken, with Ken all the time, saying that she can't wait to change her name to his last name while she's still married. And Ryan goes on social media and he's got some things to say about her. But before we go into that, let's take our last break. Okay, we're back.

So I'm going to play the clip. It's a compilation from a YouTube channel called Conspiracy. They do great work. But they put together a compilation video and I grabbed some really quick. And this is basically what Ryan thinks about Gypsy. And you'll hear him sometimes and it'll seem like he's answering questions. It's because he's live and people are asking him questions. Sometimes you'll see, since Derek doesn't know about e-begging,

let me give a quick rundown. Sometimes you'll see that Ryan has a cowboy hat on or he'll have some weird filter on. It's because people are paying to be able to put that filter on him as he is live. I'll tell you what, e-begging, it's such an insult. Jesus, it's so bad. It's pretty bad. I feel like a lot of people e-beg. A lot. A lot. Even the ones that aren't doing the TikTok battles. Do you remember that robot thing a couple months ago where the girls would be like robots and they'd be like, thank you for the roses. Thank you. Thank you. Yeehaw.

So like people. Do you remember these? Do you know what I'm talking about? I hope they clip you. I hope they clip you. Play this clip. Play this clip. I'm never.

I'm scarred for life. Gypsy turns on that voice when she's wanting something bad. That voice does come on. She lays it on thick, which I always thought was so cute. Like, you know, when she wanted something, she would throw that voice on. And her voice stayed the same. I mean, it's nothing that was different. But it's like when she wanted something more, she would hit that voice

and knew that it got me. You know, she knew what she was doing. Guys, I know y'all don't, I know y'all are like it's baby talk or anything, but she didn't like baby talk with it. It just, it would just, I don't know, like, she knew I loved her voice. She knew I loved her voice.

So, guys, y'all can call me weird for that. I thought it was unique. Like, I like, like I will tell y'all this, for a person to grab my heart, they have to be really unique, really different. And that's one thing about Gypsy that I always loved. I always felt like she was one of a kind. Like, you got to imagine her story and us.

It was one of a kind. So, guys, I'm not going to bash Gypsy. I still have love for Gypsy. I always will. Somebody did say something to me that, you know, the only two people that can affect your marriage are the two people in it. I do agree to that to some extent. But me knowing Gypsy like I know Gypsy, you know, they played on her. They played on her emotions. Gypsy can be influenced somewhat.

You know, Gypsy's trying to figure life out. So am I mad at Gypsy? Hmm. Guys, I've gone through every stage of the grief process. You know, I still have a lot of love and respect for gypsy i'm not going to talk bad about gypsy like that video i did the other day i was mad i'm not gonna lie i was really mad uh so uh yeah i saw somebody sent me a picture of uh not somebody sent me a picture i saw a clip of the pregnancy test that gypsy put on her Instagram, but then deleted her Instagram and then said it was hacked. So you never know with Gypsy. Honestly, you never know. So, uh, if she is pregnant, I wish her the best. You know, like I have massive love for that girl and I still care about her. It what it is like but i'm trying to move on with

my life she lies a lot and nobody knows that more than me i'm just joking babe just joey gypsy if you're watching i'm just joking uh could it be my baby well i mean like if she is pregnant it could have been but if she is guys i don't even know is great if she's not good for her uh you know like i don't know i think she's got the wrong dude if she is pregnant i will say that you know i just being honest uh i'm not a big fan of his but whatever like i sent her a text last night like Like, anytime I talk, like, here's facts, guys. Anytime that I talk about Gypsy, okay, like in L.A., I talked about her a bunch. Anytime I have to talk about her. And so I did my first live last night, and I got a lot of questions about her.

Anytime I have to talk about her a bunch, I start to miss her. So last night, I decided to text her. And, of course, I texted her through Google Voice because, you know, right now, I mean, while she's with Ken all the time, she blocks me. But it's funny, when she wants to talk, she just unblocks me and calls me but anyway so i i sent a message to google voice saying stuff like i miss you or actually i said the actual thing i said was uh do you miss me do you think about me uh something like i just wanted to let you know that i do miss you snuggles and that's what i said she said on the live that i said uh

i love you but i didn't say that. But that isn't the only ex she's ever kept in touch with, by the way, just for the record. Yeah, just so y'all know, that's not the only ex. Ken was not the only ex, but that's beside the point. Cowboy Hat, thank you. I will not be one she keeps in touch with. I guarantee you she did not want me with Gypsy at all. I had every right to be angry, guys. And it wasn't that I was mad that she was talking to her family.

That wasn't what the issue was. It was that she was on frigging camera and was telling the world. And I told her that. I said, it has nothing to do with your family. Talk to your family by all means don't do it on camera like that was my whole issue it had nothing to do with her keeping her from her family i never kept gypsy from her family if i was preventing that i wouldn't have done it but i drove her to meet her sister mia like you're gonna see in a later episode one thing I did that

I still drives me crazy to this day but I did it because her family asked it was a low blow to me but I did it because that's what they asked I didn't trust her that's why well guys do y'all realize that she was cheating on me I mean I didn't say quit texting ken you know like guys y'all y'all were not in our relationship so i love when i get comments of like you were controlling as hell for saying this one comment guys y'all y'all don't know gypsy like i know gypsy gypsy's sweet and great, but y'all don't know her. Like, I mean, Gypsy's great, though. But y'all don't know what it's like to be with her. So, I mean, I'm not going to talk bad about Gypsy.

I'm just not. Ken's there for money? I don't know. But i don't trust him but i mean why would i he's not with me i mean he's not with me so you know he he's with my wife my ex soon-to-be ex so of course i don't like him you know yeah y'all see that during the fight where she pulled out her phone yeah guys we were having a fight where she pulled out her phone? Yeah, guys, we were having a discussion, and she pulled out her phone, and that threw me for a loop. I was in the middle of it like, why are you filming me?

Like, I couldn't believe that she filmed me in the middle of that. And now looking back, I get why she did it because, like, she already had it in mind, like her, her mind already switched to leave. Like it was already like, Oh, Ken single, like from that quote, uh, you know, so of course I was made out to be the bad guy from that moment. I saw one person say that I was controlling for asking who was she texting in that episode guys we were uh we were driving and uh her face was buried in her phone and you know I was trying to talk to her so that's why I said who you texting guys they can edit to make it sound so so crazy I mean if that's controlling I don't I didn't grab her phone. I didn't grab her phone and say,

who are you texting? Like a creepo would, you know, that didn't do that. But, you know, just a minute ago, Ken starts texting on her phone for her. So call me creepy. But anyway, I'm not going to, I'm not going gonna weigh in too much on that it's pretty self-explanatory i did find it interesting that ryan went back and forth between social studies school teacher and malibu's most wanted uh did you just did you just pull a b-rad joke he i mean ryan has his own things that he's going through and you know he's he's blocked and he's reaching out and some of it is understandable he's losing his wife to another man i get it but there's a reason why he pursued gypsy in the first place and i think that's pretty evident as you watch this clip he at the at the core he may be

a good guy but he fetishized her he fetishized her a little bit yeah he has some own things his own things he's dealing with and then it's hard to take any of these guys serious because this is a really, this is a serious subject. This is a married couple, you know, who got together under unique circumstances and their, uh, their whole relationship, how it started was documented. And now they're on this app using it to tell their story, but at the same time, pandering to their audience for money. And, and having weird filters put on their face and the filters are there because they're getting paid, you know?

So it's tough to take it all serious, but, but it just kind of encompasses this, this story in general and why we're talking about it. And we're not the only ones, but I'm not going to sit here and break down those tick tocks because I think, I think we're,

I'd like to think we're better than that. So I will break them down only to the extent because. He's like, I'm not better than that. I'll break it down. I'm not better than that. Cause from a sociological, from a sociological perspective,

this is actually like a small slice of what is actually happening in society where it's like every what Gypsy did when she got out of prison, she became a social media influencer and put all of her business out there. And then it seems to be not even like it doesn't even seem like she doesn't like the negative attention. It almost seems like she likes it, like she enjoys it because she continues to basically make everything that she's doing. Why do you sign up for a reality show that's going to follow you around after you get released? When in the, in the days when you're. I got to be careful what I say about reality shows and stuff. Cause I'm going to bury myself. So would you have ever done that? Would you have ever been like, yeah, after a big brother? Yes. Follow me around. I haven't seen my wife in X amount of months. I haven't seen my kids in X amount of times. Yeah. Follow me to my house with a camera so that these intimate first moments that I'm back

with my family can be documented. My first moments coming out was documented. I'm just, I'm not trying to be a hypocrite. But wasn't it weird, dude? Like. It is weird, but I will. And it wasn't the case for me, unfortunately, but I can't imagine the money that was being thrown at them.

And you're starting off your life from ground zero. She doesn't have a big savings account, you know, with everything going on. So some production company says we're going to pay you $100,000. So basically she did exactly what her mother had done for her whole life, which is grift. Go on social media e-begging. Go on social media to get your registry for your child purchased. Use a freaking reality show to get paid and destroy the first months of what should have been an intimate time with your husband. Instead of going out there and saying,

I'm sure I can make an honest living. I spent my whole life not making an honest living. My mom spent her whole life not making an honest living. I can turn this around. I can break this cycle of toxicity, this generational abuse. She went and she did the same thing that she's always done. Even after saying, oh, she's gone through all this therapy and mental health help and career training and stuff in prison and learning life skills. And she's like, oh, when I get out, I'm going to be fine. I'm going to be able to take care of myself. You're not taking care of yourself.

You're not. You're still grifting. You're still begging. You're still using the kindness of others to fund your life. I will tell you, that's a lot of what people do today. Not just gypsy. I mean, social media is a bitch when it comes to that stuff. Yeah. But for somebody to be like, oh, I'm so glad that now I have the opportunity to live a normal life and take care of myself and be independent and show my mother. I think it was financially motivated. All the reason why she's exposing herself and she probably liked the attention for sure.

I agree. So I'm going to comment on it specifically to the point of like this girl, Gypsy, had no business being in any relationship. What she needed to do was stay off the Internet, go to more therapy, look inward, fix the things about her that had been broken, whether it was her mother who broke them or Nicholas Godejohn or any of the other people that she's encountered in her life. It doesn't matter who broke them. It's your job now as an adult to fix them. But instead, she just dives into relationships thinking that this is going to be the cure.

This is going to be the answer. Somebody's going to take care of me. And so she had no business being in a relationship with Ken. She had no business being in a relationship with Ryan. And I feel bad for her about that because I know that it's all she knows. But according to her, she's had extensive therapy and she should be at a place where she understands that you can't count on somebody else for happiness because the second you start counting on somebody else for happiness and you're not able to provide that for yourself you're you're handing your life your mental state to someone else and expecting them to be responsible for it when you need to be responsible for it and this is why you see her as soon as she's sick of ryan she just boom ping pong ping pongs right back to

ken and i don't know it's it's not It's not super healthy, whereas she should. And she's even said she's back with Ken, right? But she's not going to live with him. She's going to stay living with her parents, her stepmother, Christy, and her father, Rod. And she's going to live with them while she has this relationship with Ken. So that's great. In my opinion, that's a good start. That's a good way of saying maybe I'm not ready to have this mature, grown-up, responsible relationship where we're living together and we're splitting bills and we have to make these decisions together. Maybe I should take things a little bit more slow. However, as it turns out, Gypsy is pregnant.

And she claims that Ken is the father of her child, which is where we're at today. Gypsy and Ryan split in mid-March. Gypsy then made her relationship with Ken official online just weeks later. And within months, she had announced that she was pregnant. So obviously, the public had questions about who the father of her child was, considering that Gypsy had gone live several times and admitted to having feelings for Ken and to speaking with him often while she and Ryan were still married and living together. So recently, Gypsy has shared the results of a non-invasive paternity test showing that Ken has 99.9% probability of being the father of this child. And she wrote, quote,

there's been a lot of chatter about the paternity of our baby. And while we've known for sure since the beginning, I feel that it's finally time to put all these theories to rest. Here are the results showing Ken is the father. Ken is going to be an incredible dad. And we are so excited to welcome our baby girl into the world. End quote. Why do you feel like you owe anybody any answers at this point? Why are you living chronically online? Why are you why do you think that anybody out there who's like, oh, who's the father of this? This should not affect your personal life. This should not affect your relationship with your child. This should not affect your relationship with the father of this child.

And it doesn't really matter what anybody else out there thinks unless she plans on continuing to make her living as this social media influencer. I think online e-begging. I think that was the plan. I mean, she's making millions at that point. I guarantee it. But do you think she's healthy and emotionally enough to be doing that? No, but I think that speaks to her decision-making process in fairness to her. And even I think you would agree with this,

like whether she was abused or not, in your opinion, she grew up in a fucked up childhood. For sure. And so when you don't have that foundation that a lot of us are blessed to have, as you get older and you become an adult, you're not able to discern what's right from wrong. You didn't have that role model in your life that was doing that for you when you were a kid and you guys were making money off false claims. So I feel like she just, it's kind of a, a vicious circle where it's

like, you know, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She's finding ways to make money in different ways than her mother did. But at the same time, the same ways also the same ways. Exactly. So I just feel, I'm not saying she's, we shouldn't hold her accountable. I'm just saying there is some truth to the notion that this is all she knows. This is all she knows. And it does make me feel a little sad for her from that perspective. But you also spent like the better part of a decade in prison. So is it all you know? I mean, her role model's in prison teaching her the right thing to do. I don't know. Well, yeah, she's supposed to have like life skills. She went to classes for like life skills, teach her how to be independent. She got her degree. But she's still who she is.

I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of psychological turmoil there. Exactly. But but if you can unpack all that, if almost a decade of of therapy and life skills and education didn't bring her to a place where she realizes like, hey, maybe I shouldn't get married to somebody I only talked to on the phone while I'm still in prison. If that doesn't bring you to a place where you realize that, like what will? What will? Nothing. So that's where we're at right now. Gypsy's going to be a mom and probably use her child on social media for more attention. And I don't know. I don't know. Wrapping this one up. Final thoughts.

Let's give our final thoughts. You want to go first or you want me to go first? You're on a roll. You want to go first. Don't matter to me. Whatever you want to do. I mean, I don't have a lot to say.

When it comes down to it, if you look at once again, I want to, I sort of started this series with the comparison of Gypsy to the Menendez brothers. And I want to end it that way. If you look at

what happened with Eric and Lyle, and you look at what their parents did to them, there's not an ounce of anything in me that would say that their parents had their best interest at heart. They were just bad people. They came from money. They had money. They had power. They had influence. They had everything. Now, when you look at Dee Dee Blanchard, she did not have money. She did not have power. She did not have influence. And in order to make her life and her daughter's life better, she lied and she came up with a scheme. But I believe that Dee Dee did that to benefit both herself and Gypsy. There's going to be a little bit of sacrifice. We're going to shave your head. We're going to have to do this. We're going to have to put on a whole show.

But at the end of the day, you're going to get to do things that I would never have been able to give you on my own. We're going to be able to have experiences. We're going to be able to have a house. We're going to be able to have things that I never would have been able to give you as a single mother of low socioeconomic status. And I do think that that was the goal there. Was it healthy?

No. Was it toxic? Yes. But at the end of the day, when you look at Jose Menendez, was he doing what he did for Eric and Lyle so he could give them a life that he didn't have? No. He had already provided them a life that he didn't have. And he was trying to make them every single day feel bad about that and earn it in whatever weird, toxic way he thought they should. Whereas I believe Dee Dee was more like, hey, I can't do these things for you. I can't bring you to Disney World. I can't let you meet the whole cast of Harry Potter. But if we play this game and if you play this role, you'll be able to do all of those things and more.

And like I said, I don't believe that there was any physical abuse. She was being punched, hit. Nobody ever saw Gypsy with black eyes, bleeding, bruises on her. I think it was something that Dee Dee did to benefit them both and to make both of their lives better. But when you come from a toxic place already, you don't realize that you're damaging your child more than you would have maybe if you guys had had to struggle. But maybe that's also damaging to a child. If your mother is a single mother and has to work all the time and isn't there for you, how would Gypsy's life have been better? I don't know. But this wasn't it. But I do not think there was an intention of Deedee, like, I'm going to make this girl's life miserable. I'm going to make sure she never has

a happy day in her life. And I think that Eric and Lyle's parents kind of wanted their kids to be miserable and kind of wanted to punish them and wanted to torture them. So I think there's the vast difference there. Okay. And then final question for you would be, here we are now, what do you think about where Gypsy is and where Nicholas is? What's your final take on that? should have been in prison for life, period. I don't think that either one of them should have gotten out after 10 years or before 10 years in Gypsy's case. I think they both should have been tried and found guilty for first-degree murder because that's what it was and they were both equally responsible. Without one or the other, it never would have happened. Okay.

So I have all these notes that we've been taking over this seven-part series and I'm not going to sit here and summarize all that. So I'm going to try to keep it short to go from the beginning to where we are now, how I feel about it. people combined two different crimes into one story. And they do kind of go hand in hand. But I think for the sake of what I want to do, I had to separate them. I had to compartmentalize the two questions, which was, is Gypsy responsible for Dee Dee's murder and was she abused? And without beating a dead horse here, I do feel there was some level of abuse. What that level is, I don't know. To what extent, we may never know. Didi, like I said earlier, is no longer here. But I will say, and I said it in this episode, it does appear that Gypsy wasn't an immediate fear of some type of abuse while still living with Didi based on what we do have, the evidence we do have the ability to go back and look at specifically the conversations between her and Nicholas Godejohn.

Premeditated murder. What we're looking at here, was she part of it? Was she not part of it? I've made my opinions on that very clear. She was not only part of it. I would say that she was the driving force behind it. She was the orchestrator of that murder. That's just my opinion. As far as motive, motive to me, it could be a combination of things, but to go back to the DMs and what we do have, there's been no indication that her motive was defensive in nature where she felt like this was the only way to avoid being hurt or killed by her abuser. To me, you have a combination of things where it could be some resentment because of what she went through It also could be financial in nature. There was a little bit of money available. Not a lot, but there was some money and I personally do feel like she wanted to

Move on with nicholas go to john. I think she wanted out of the relationship and I think she did feel Like as long as dd was alive Dd was never going to let her have a relationship with Nicholas or any other man for that matter. We have to remember at the time when this occurred, DD was in bed sick and Gypsy had the ability to leave. Sleeping. But sleeping. Gypsy was 23 years old, had the ability to leave, but she didn't. And she, because she was in a mental state where she still valued the opinion of her mother and was still living under her roof. I think a big part of Gypsy felt like as long as my mother's here, she's never going to let me be with someone else.

Dee Dee wants to keep me to herself. But I do not feel that this was some form of self-defense. And I don't think that there's been any indication that this needed to be done in order to save Gypsy's life. That's not only my opinion. She never expressed that to the person she was the closest with at the time, which was Nicholas Godejohn. Then we get into the area that is extremely important for this case and is ultimately very subjective. And that's the phrase. Oh, can I cut in really quick with a comment? Of course. You usually have something based on what I say. So go for it.

Yeah. Well, there was a few comments I screenshotted from last week's episode. And the Sunny Leo said, guys, Gypsy was nowhere near in love with Nick. She literally bought him a round trip bus ticket in advance. Didn't buy her own until last minute. You have to understand who Gypsy was in love with. It was Dan. He was married, though, so she couldn't run away with him. You cannot convince me she didn't intend to go with him and realize last minute Dan wasn't going to take her anywhere.

She was literally texting Dan in the closet when the police came to arrest her and Nick. She told Nick not to wear gloves to frame him. She never loved him. It was always Dan. And then somebody responded, not to mention she mailed the knife to Nick's house after telling him they would throw it in the river. And yeah, I kind of feel the same way. And then this other person said, I think that's why she posted on Facebook so they would come get Nick and she could just go back to her house. She didn't want to take the money to Nick's house because then he would want to start planning their life with it. She left it there, posted to get him arrested, thinking she

could just prance back home and live happily ever after. So that's very valid, right? When you asked, does Gypsy love Nick? And we're talking about she wanted Dee Dee out of the way so she could be with Nick. I think if she wanted Dee Dee out of the way so she could be with somebody. Oh, that's what I'm saying. Wasn't necessarily Nick, right? I agree with that. Yeah. And that's what I said. I think if she wanted Dee Dee out of the way so she could be with somebody. Oh, that's what I'm saying. Wasn't necessarily Nick, right? I agree with that. Yeah, and that's what I said. I think that she took away from this

that whether it was Nicholas, go to John, Dan, John, Ryan, Sean, whoever it was, as long as Dee Dee was alive, there probably was some truth to this. Maybe Dee Dee didn't want to be alone and she wanted to keep Gypsy under her thumb and keep her in the house.

That could be true. That could be true where she was holding on to her as tight as she could because trying to keep her young, trying to keep her little. Yep. That's all, that's all she had. So the next thing that I'm going to talk about is something that was big in this trial and it's big in this case, and that's mitigating circumstances and how we view them. Because depending on where you sit, you could view these mitigating circumstances differently. For the sake of this, it's applicable to the sentencing, right? My opinion, based on what we do know that's fact-based, there's not enough evidence of abuse here to suggest that the crime that was committed would be justified based on those

mitigating circumstances of abuse. It just doesn't reach that level. There's not enough evidence, direct evidence to suggest that what Gypsy has conveyed to us is in fact the truth wholly. I already told you guys that I believe she was abused to a certain extent. What that extent is, I don't know. And I don't think anybody does. So a lot of you have pushed back and this is not only in the comments from things that I've said, but even some of the people that I met on the crime cruise. And the phrase that I keep hearing when I say that she is guilty of murder is no, she's guilty of killing her abuser. Here's what I would pose to everybody who feels that way You may be right

But we can't condone behavior or create a society Where victims whether they're victims or not, maybe they just think they're victims or they could actually be victims Regardless, we can't have them serving as judge jury and executioner We do not want to set that precedent where victims, actual victims, are out there killing their abusers without any type of trial taking place for that abuser. Dee Dee was never arrested. She was never even charged with a crime. I'm not saying she's not guilty of it. I've already told you what I feel about that. But the reality, as far as the judicial system is concerned, is she was never charged with anything. And yet she is dead because of that, according to Gypsy.

So I don't want to go down that path. I do not want to set that precedent where we're justifying murder, premeditated murder, because the victim took out their justice on their abuser. You may feel like that's personally the right move, but that's not the world I want to live in. So to kind of round this out, I agree with Stephanie in the sense that they should both still be in prison. I think Nick is a danger to society. I think Gypsy is as well. And if Gypsy were to get out, then Nicholas should have got out as well. They're both equally culpable in this murder, in my opinion. Do I think they

should be in there with life without parole? That's where I do think mitigating circumstances could have played a role. I could have seen 20 years, 20 to I was thinking. 20 to 25 and then revisiting it and seeing where they are. But eight years and you're back out with those DMs that are out there. And Nicholas Godijan, life in prison, no chance of parole. Yeah, the other person involved who- The compare contrast is just ludicrous. Yeah, I don't get that. You have to ask, why was one treated so differently than the other?

Well, it's because of their interpretation of those mitigating circumstances. I think that's what they say, but I don't think that's the full story. I think there's something deeper. I think there's something political. I think there's something image related. And I wish I knew what it was.

And I think one day it's going to come out, if I'm being honest. I will see. Something else is at play here. It's not just mitigating circumstances. You still would have seen. He literally said, I could have gotten her for first degree murder. She would have spent her life in prison.

So you think you can't give her a better deal for justice than eight years? You could have offered her 20. 10 years and only served eight. Yep. Yeah, you could have offered her 20 and she still would have been getting off easy. Yeah. So here's where we are. And this is the facts.

Gypsy Rose will never be charged again. It is set in stone. She has served her time. And unless she commits a different crime, she is going to live the rest of her life as a free woman. So here's what I hope. I think Nicholas still needs to stay where he is. At least they got half of it right.

However, what I hope for Gypsy at this point is she got lucky. She got a second chance at life that, in our opinions, maybe she shouldn't have gotten this soon, but she does have a baby on the way. And I talked about her relationship with Dee Dee and how it affected her in her romantic life. And all I can hope at this point is that that vicious cycle that has been passed down from Dee Dee's parents to Dee Dee to Gypsy.

Hopefully not to Gypsy's daughter. With everything that's taken place and all this criticism and, and, and ability to look back on what has transpired. I hope Gypsy takes all of it and breaks that cycle, as you just said, and, and does better by her son

or daughter i don't know what what what the gender is daughter daughter even more so even more so i really hope that do you think you hope you hope you hope we all hope i hope do you think do you think that it's that she's gonna that she's gonna miraculously break the cycle we're gonna find out but i'm i'm hoping for the sake of the child. Yes. But I do think there's a level of accountability that no one in her life from previous generations has had. She is going to be under a microscope. There's a level of accountability she's never taken.

She's never shown remorse. She's out there on TikTok shamelessly e-begging and laughing and, you know, throwing one man out for the other very publicly. And there's never like you should have not shown your face for a while. I don't disagree. There should have been some shame. There should have been some remorse. There should have been some accountability and some self-awareness after what you did, after you were convicted and put in prison for the crime of killing your mother, that you didn't need to jump on social media the second you got out and start,

thanks for the roses, thanks for the roses. It's disgusting. I'm disgusted. I'm disgusted. That's all. I was trying to end on a positive note. I'm going to try again. Can I do that?

Okay. Let's hope the best for her daughter. I do. Let's hope that there's some silver lining out of all this, where this beautiful little girl who did not ask for any of this, um, has a mother who supports and loves her and treats her right. Because of maybe the things that she's been through in this opportunity to have the chance to be a parent when maybe that shouldn't have been the case if the justice system went a different way.

So. And there's a possibility of that. I've seen children change people. There we go. That's, there we go. Stephanie, positive. I like that. Any, anything else other than e-begging?

It's literally like, it was painful for me to say that. So. Okay. Little, I'm going to do something that I didn't say with Stephanie, but we're going to give you the heads up. Next week, we're starting a new series. It's been highly requested. We put out a little poll online about it, and it's about three-fourths of you that want it. That's usually the number.

It's somewhere around there. I thought it was like 77%. Yeah, it's not everyone, but we're going to be covering the Karen Reid series. We're going to be talking about it. And the only other thing that I'll mention, because it literally happened while we were recording today. So there's no way we could do it for Crime Weekly News, which is Richard Allen has been found guilty of murdering Libby and Abby. And so we covered that already on Crime Weekly. There has been a lot more that's come out. We'll have to talk about that and how we're going to cover it. It may be

just a long Crime Weekly News because again, we did a series on it. We had Kelsey on to talk about the case. So I don't know if we would do a whole nother series, but I think we could do a longer Crime Weekly News and discuss what kind of happened during the trial, some of the complications. Why he was found guilty. And then, yes, and why he was found guilty. And the reason I want to cover Karen Reed is because of Derek, basically, because this case heavily, heavily slants towards police corruption. And listen, when I first started looking into it, I was like, this defense team is crazy. There's no way that there's this level of police corruption.

And as I've gotten deeper and Derek can attest, I was at my office all weekend when I usually don't work on weekends like that. And he called me. He's like, what are you doing? I'm like working. I can't get away from this Karen Reed thing. Like I'm obsessed with it. I've already like taken all the notes. I've got a timeline. I was talking fast. He was like, oh man, I was like, did you take Adderall today? You're like, yes, yes.

Yes. But that's also the dopamine that I get when I'm so fixated on a case and I'm so interested in it. And I really want to get, especially because this is Canton. Okay. So it's very close to Derek. get, especially because this is Canton. Okay. So it's very close to Derek. Yep. Right next door.

Right next door. There is a huge amount of alleged police corruption. And I want to get his take on it. Like he's going to obviously sway towards defending the police as he does because that's what he does. And I want to see faced with the information that there is. What does he think about it? And what does he have to say about it? Looking forward to it. New series coming next week.

We appreciate you guys being here. Like comment, subscribe. We will see you next week with a new crime weekly news until then. Everyone stay safe out there. Until then, don't be panini pressed. Bye guys.

Panini pressed. What's that? The gypsy, the gypsy social panini pressed. Bye, guys. Panini pressed? What's that? The gypsy social media people, understand? Oh, Jesus. Shannon, can you play the panini pressed Gypsy Rose video to take us out? All right. Stay safe out there. We're going out. Here's the panini pressed video that I have not seen. This is a first on Crime Weekly. Have a good night. Bye. Oh, honey, I am so not threatened by you. My man wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole.

You're just mad because I have a Chad. And last time I checked, you don't have a man. So looks like you're the one that's panini pressed. Call a spade a spade, honey. Keep making content.