Crime Weekly - S3 Ep281: Bear Brook Murders: The Middle Child (Part 3)

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

On November 10, 1985, a hunter walking near the edge of Bear Brook State Park in Allenstown, New Hampshire, stumbled upon a rusted 55-gallon barrel tipped over in the woods. Inside, he found the skeletal remains of a woman and a young girl, both wrapped in plastic. Authorities searched for answers, but the victims remained unidentified, and the case went cold. Then, 15 years later, investigators returned to the scene and made a chilling discovery—another barrel, just 150 yards away, containing the remains of two more young girls. And as the investigation continued, the dark truth behind the Bear Brook murders slowly began to unravel. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets! https://www.crimecon.com/CC25 Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. ZipRecruiter.com/CrimeWeekly - Try Zip Recruiter for FREE! 2. EatIQBAR.com - Text WEEKLY to 64000 for 20% off ALL IQBAR products and FREE shipping!

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So is there anything you want to say before we dive in? I'm kind of wanting to just dive right in. I am too. Yeah. This case has me in a chokehold, honestly. Yeah, we've covered a lot on last week's episode. I feel like I need to have the conclusion to the story because basically where we left off, we still don't know the original victims' names.

And that's how this whole case came to be. So at minimum, we got to find out who they are. Yeah, so after more than 30 years of searching, investigators finally uncovered the true identity of the man responsible for the Bear Brook murders, which is Terry Rasmussen, a drifter and a con man who used multiple aliases to hide his violent past. So they now knew he was the one who had brutally murdered a woman and three young girls, stuffing their bodies into barrels and leaving them in the woods of Bear Brook State Park. But there's still one thing they didn't know, the names of the victims he had tried so hard to erase. Authorities were determined to uncover their identities no matter how long it took. Now, authorities were hopeful that genetic genealogist Dr. Barbara Rae Venter would be able

to work her magic again, this time to identify the Bear Brook victims. Because remember, Dr. Rae Venter had figured out that the little girl Terry Rasmussen had with him when he was going by one of his aliases, that it was not his daughter, Lisa, that was a completely different person, completely different parents, Dawn. She was able to do that. Dr. Ray Venter was also able to build out Terry Rasmussen's family tree to identify him because, like we said, he went by so many names. Now they're hoping, hey, can you figure out who the victims in the barrels are. But this task was far more difficult than identifying Lisa and Rasmussen. The victim's DNA was significantly degraded, making it unusable for the traditional testing methods that Dr. Ray Venter relied on. With no immediate solution,

he pretty much had to wait for technology to catch up. Meanwhile, Becky Heath, a research librarian who had become deeply invested in the Bear Brook case in the late 2000s, was conducting her own search. In her free time, she scoured online forums where people looked for long-lost relatives, hoping that someone out there had been searching for the unidentified victims. She believed there was a chance that a distant relative of the Bear Brook victims had left a clue on one of these forms without realizing its significance. In November of 2017,

Becky came across an Ancestry message board post from the year 2000. The post listed a missing woman named Marlise McWaters and her two daughters, Sarah and Marie. The post had been made by someone searching for the family who had ties to both California and New England. Becky looked for a death certificate for Marlise, but she couldn't find one, meaning that Marlise was either still alive or unidentified. Then, Becky compared the birthdates of Marlise and her daughters to the estimated age ranges of the three related Bear Brook victims, the adult, the oldest child, and the youngest child.

The numbers lined up. She later said, quote, the age is fitting, and then the location's also fitting. I'm like, oh my goodness, you know what? This seems like something. I think that this could be them. End quote. Becky shared her suspicions with a group of fellow amateur investigators, but she didn't really get any feedback, so the tip was never submitted to law enforcement. Nearly a year later, in October 2018, Jason Moon, a reporter with New Hampshire Public

Radio, launched a seven-episode podcast about the Bear Brook case. His goal was to untangle the complicated investigation and explore the many unanswered questions surrounding it. On October 11th, Becky started listening to the podcast, and as she absorbed the details, something clicked. She suddenly remembered the old forum post about Mayor Lise McWaters. She had a gut feeling that Mayor Lise was one of the Bear Brook victims.

So Becky tracked down the family member who had made the post nearly two decades earlier and reached out with some questions. Then in the middle of their conversation, the person casually mentioned something that changed everything. They said, quote, oh, and by the way, Marilise married a guy with the last name Rasmussen.

There you go. End quote. Boom. Can I interject real quick something that's on topic, but also off topic and really relevant to this week's CWN, Crime Weekly News. Because if you haven't seen the CWN, this will make a lot of sense to you, but we were talking about AI generated true crime content and how it's not good for the industry. And basically, our pushback is you got to have real people who really care about these cases,

weighing in with facts, making sure everything's, the I's are dotted, the T's are crossed and presenting it in an empathetic way, but also still being factual in nature. This podcast that was created regarding the Bear Brook murders, that's how Becky found this. Yes. So a true crime podcast. That's true crime. That is true crime. And that person created it so that everyone would know those stories. And because they shared it in this,

would you say seven part series, whatever it was? Yep. Seven parts. They didn't know Becky who had seen this thing earlier on an ancestor then, and then posted it on an ancestry board and then kind of forgot about it. They didn't know that Becky was going to come and listen to their podcast and it was going to lead to this. But it can. It doesn't always happen, but it does. And it just, it reminded me of it as we were talking about the AI generated stuff that's fake. That's not going to do this.

And this at its core is what I hope true crime is always about. Community members helping out other members of the community who have been victims of crime. Real people who care, telling the stories of real people who no longer have voices. Absolutely. That's what true crime is. And I want to give him one more shout out. So it's Jason Moon. And so he's from New Hampshire

Public Radio, launched a seven part series about this. Good for you, Jason Moon. You've had an impact already. Good for you, Jason Moon. You've had an impact already. Good for you. And so now we find out that Marilise McWaters, she disappeared, but she married somebody with the last name Rasmussen, right? Like Terry Rasmussen, not good at all. So the family member obviously had no idea of the significance of that name, but Becky did. She immediately realized what this meant. Quote, oh my God, it's them, it's them, it's them.

This is it, this is it, this is real. End quote. That's what Becky said. The next day, October 12th, Becky contacted authorities to report the lead, and police quickly got in touch with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children to begin verifying the information. Now, at that exact same time, Dr. Ray Venter came across an article about a new forensic technique that extracted autosomal DNA from rootless hair. Dr. Ed Green, an associate

professor of biomolecular engineering at the University of California, Santa Cruz, had been developing this technology, which had the potential to recover DNA from degraded samples, something that had not been possible before. Ray Venter immediately reached out to New Hampshire authorities and requested that they send hair samples from the Bear Brook victims to Green's lab. They agreed. And for the first time, Green helped law enforcement use the technique in a criminal case. So not only is this case the first one where this mitochondrial ancestry DNA thing is being used.

Yep. But the first time that they're going to use this forensic technique that extracts autosomal DNA from rootless hair, from degraded samples. Yeah. That is cool. So this case has a lot of hallmarks in the true crime community and the true crime landscape. It's a basic down for the dummies like me. Essentially back before this, you needed flesh to be attached to the hair follicle in order

to get any type of DNA from it. If it didn't have the root, the flesh attached to it, it was useless. Now they can pull from actually inside the follicle. Didn't they do this technique in the Kaylee Anthony case as well? They might have done it after the fact, maybe not initially. I don't know. I don't remember exactly, but a lot of cases where originally they've had hair, but there was no root attached, no skin attached. They basically discredited it. They keep the hair, but there's nothing that's been done with it. Now with mitochondrial DNA testing, they have to go back because now you can extract the DNA from the actual hair follicle itself, which opens up the doors to solve so many more cases.

Absolutely. And once the DNA profiles were extracted from the hair shafts, Ray Venter got to work. She uploaded the profiles into genealogy databases and began building family trees, just like she had done before to identify Lisa and Terry Rasmussen. After extensive research, she finally had the answer. She identified three of the four Bear Brook victims, and the names she found matched the ones Becky had just uncovered. The adult woman found in the first barrel was Marilise Honeychurch. She'd been married twice before, but Honeychurch was her maiden name. The child found with her in that barrel was her daughter, Marie Vaughn. And the youngest child found in the second barrel was Marilise's other daughter,

Sarah McWaters. After decades of being nameless, three of the victims finally had their identities restored. And I don't want to discredit anybody or take away credit from anyone, but I don't think they'll mind me saying this. Although it took a lot of really brilliant people, scientists, you know, people to actually do the hard work. At the root of it, no pun intended, it's Becky Heath, a research librarian who just really cared about the Bear Brook murders. Think about that.

Because even with all these smart people and all this technology, they wouldn't have these names without Becky who just happened to be listening to a true crime podcast. Yes, they wouldn't have the names without Becky and the podcaster. What was his name? Jason Moon.

Jason Moon. So that's what it's all about. It's so funny. We didn't time it this way and I didn't know this happened, but man, this is what it's all about. It's so funny. We didn't time it this way and I didn't know this happened, but man, this is what it's really about. And these stories, they give me chills because it's like Becky just happened to be listening to it because she was passionate about these cases, not knowing that something that was going to be said in that episode would trigger this and would lead to these results. And this is the upside. And I will say like there is obviously a downside

to consuming a lot of true crime. Of course, of course. Even for us, right? Oh yeah, it's tough. I am mentally affected. I am emotionally affected. It affects my personal life, you know, where I'm like, I can't trust anyone.

So there's, and I do have regular therapy for these kinds of things. So I can like decide the difference between what's like just an over kind of indulgence in the true crime space and what's kind of real life. Like I have to keep that balance. But here's the positive part. If you consume enough true crime, you start to notice patterns. So for instance, last episode we were talking about a vehicle that Terry Rasmussen used to drive, and they described this vehicle. I remembered that there was a missing persons case, a child kidnapped from in front of a store in California in the 80s, and the suspect's vehicle was described like one of

the vehicles that Terry Rasmussen was driving. Terry Rasmussen was in that area in the 80s, so I jotted that down, And now later, when I'm done with this, I'm going to look and cross reference and just see like, could he have been in that area at that time? Did they ever look at him as a suspect? Because this would fit his MO kind of thing. If you consume enough true crime, you have these little snippets of information in your brain and you don't even know they're in there. It's like a library catalog. But when you hear something in another case, you're like, oh, wait, two-toned station wagon, the top was blue, or the bottom was green. Here, let me look, because I know that this case that I covered two years ago

had a vehicle that the suspect drove that looked like that. And this was like a 15-year-old girl that went missing, and still hasn't been found, unsolved still. So let me look into that. It kind of all is there. You just don't know until you need it. So that's the upside. And what happened here is Becky was very invested in the Bear Brook case. So she knew a lot that maybe wasn't in her necessarily her working memory, but was in her long-term memory. So when she's listening to Jason Moon's podcast, she must have heard something that clicked back to something else she remembered from seeing on these forums.

And now she's putting these connections together and making these parallels and these connections, which is great. I couldn't agree more. Makes me feel good. And it kind of reiterates what we were saying in that previous episode on Crime Weekly News. This is what it's all about. And many of the people in the space that are doing what we're doing are in it for the exact same reason.

But you just never know. You never know what case you're going to cover, what it's going to trigger. I just had a case I covered as well in Houston where somebody reached out to me and actually had, they believe they dated a person in a photo that I showed of a suspect that hasn't been identified. So now I'm working with Houston PD and this person to see if it's actually them. Now, maybe it doesn't work out. Maybe it isn't, but that's what you hope for. Even if you get one of those a year, it's more than what they had before. And it's more than an AI generated person telling a true crime story would get, right? Exactly. If you guys know, you know, we don't like Paul. Paul, man, lazy loser. So we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come

back and talk about what investigators did with this new information. So investigators began piecing together a timeline of Marlise's life, hoping to determine how she had crossed paths with Terry Rasmussen. They learned that Marlise Elizabeth Honeychurch was born on January 28, 1954 in Connecticut. She was remembered as a bubbly and quirky person with a great sense of humor. Her parents separated around 1961, and while her mother took her three younger sisters to California, Marlise and her older sister remained in Connecticut with their father. In 1969, at the age of 15, Marlise moved to La Mirada, California to live with her mother and stepfather. Around that time, she began using her mother's last name, Salomon, and started dating a young man.

Two years later, in June of 1971, Marlise and her boyfriend got married in Las Vegas. Her husband was in the Navy, and the couple moved frequently throughout California. On December 6, 1971, they welcomed a daughter, Marie Elizabeth Vaughn. Marlise loved being a mother and doted on her children. In June of 1972, Marlise, her husband, and their baby daughter moved to Stamford, Connecticut to live with her father. A few months later, in early 1973, they relocated to Fall River, Massachusetts. However, by July of that year, Marlise's husband and Marie moved to Lakewood, California,

while Marlise's whereabouts during that time were unknown. That summer, she traveled to Lakewood and took custody of Marie while her husband was not present. In February of 1974, Marlisa's husband divorced her and she was awarded custody of Marie. That September, she married her second husband in Los Angeles, California. By early 1975, Marlisa and Marie were believed to be living in Downey, California, and a few months later, they had moved to Camp Pendleton, a military base in San Diego County. In January of 1976, Marlise and Marie were living in Santa Ana, California. In August, Marie's father saw her and Marlise for the last time. On December 13th, 1977, Marlise gave birth to her second daughter, Sarah Lynn McWaters, in Hawaiian Gardens, California.

By March of 1978, she and Sarah's father had separated. That August, Sarah's father was awarded temporary custody of the baby while Marlise was granted visitation rights. In October of 1978, Sarah's father began a new relationship and Sarah was no longer in his care. It was presumed that she was back with Marlise. The last confirmed sighting of Marlise was around Thanksgiving in 1978 when she visited her mother's home in La Puente, California. At that time, 24-year-old Marlise introduced her family to her new boyfriend, 34-year-old Terry Rasmussen, who apparently at that time was going by his actual name. Well, 34 years old, a lot younger.

He probably hasn't built up quite the, I hate to use this word, resume at that point. But it almost seemed like maybe later in life is when he really started to get into it. But yeah, he was like, oh shit, like I've piled up a lot of like, you know, closets full of stuff. I don't want to come out. Exactly. At this point, maybe what he's done is low level animals, things of that nature, nothing that's going to raise too many electricity. Yeah. Right. And so that is, I will say from an investigative perspective, it's not a, it's not a guarantee certainty, but it may be a potential indicator of when he started doing these types of crimes. Because when you see where he changed his name, maybe that's an indicator of when he started conducting this type of behavior.

Not a guarantee. You still got to vet everything, but it would make sense that he started using aliases once he started carrying out these types of crimes. Absolutely. Or maybe after he did something to Marlise and her daughters. That's it. That's what I'm saying. Up to that point, he's living the straight and narrow, again, doing low level stuff, nothing of this nature. But once he commits his first offense, now he takes on these different personas. Okay. So Marlise is 24. She's got two kids. Terry Rasmussen, 10 years older than her, right? And Marlisa's sister,

Paula, later recalled that Marlisa and their mother got into a heated argument that night, and Paula couldn't remember exactly what had been said, but she believed her mother had made a comment along the lines of, you know, he's too old for you. Why are you with him? So after the argument, Marlisa left with Rasmussen and her daughters, and no one in her family ever saw her again. Paula later said, quote, they never called, never contacted nobody, just disappeared, end quote. Investigators believe that after leaving California, Marlise, Rasmussen, and the children traveled to Manchester, New Hampshire. Once they arrived, authorities suspected that this is when Rasmussen

began using the alias Bob Evans and may have even asked Marlise to pose as his wife, Elizabeth Evans. Authorities were unable to determine exactly what happened next. The only clue they have comes from a photograph taken in December of 1978 or 1979, which suggests that Marie may have celebrated her seventh or eighth birthday with relatives in an unknown location. However, after that, there was no further evidence of the family being alive. Marlisa's family searched for her and her daughters for years, but never found any answers. Her brother David later said, quote, it was just a situation where every time we searched, we came to a dead a situation where every time we searched,

we came to a dead end, end quote. Their mother, unable to shake the feeling that something was wrong, would often ask, quote, something's not right. Where is she? End quote. The search never stopped. David recalled, quote, it tore my mom up. She took the blame for her leaving, end quote, which of course she's going to, you know.

You have a fight with your daughter. Your daughter takes off. You don't hear from her again. Can you imagine? Yeah. No. No. I don't want to imagine. Exactly. And you're going to blame yourself and you're going to be like, oh, I'm so stupid. I shouldn't have said anything about him. But these people, Marlisa's family, just like Insoon's family, right, they sensed maybe there's something not right with this guy. Maybe his intentions for you aren't so pure. And so they're trying to communicate these red flags with these young women. But this guy, Terry Rasmussen, for some reason came off creepy to everyone else, but to

the women that he was trying to win over, super charming, super like it's us against the world, Bonnie and Clyde, you know, F the haters. If they don't want you, if they don't accept us, we're just going to go rogue. He was able to isolate these women from their family members, from their loved ones, which is honestly the number one red flag for abuse when something like this happens. If somebody, your partner or somebody you're dating is talking badly about your family, like, oh, they don't understand you.

They don't accept you. They'll never accept us. You know, let's just go no contact. It's not a great sign. Now, obviously, some family units are toxic and you have to have a good indicator of whether that's the case or whether the person you're with has an ulterior motive, has an ulterior motive for not wanting you to have these level headed people who are trying to communicate to you that something is not right with this situation. Yeah. And that is something

we can take from these cases where we start to look at like the MO of these individuals, not only in the middle of their crimes, but also beforehand, like Stephanie was just saying, the separation from family members, knowing what type of person that they are, that being, that being Rasmussen, knowing who he is, he doesn't want you to have an outlet to confide and to talk to because that makes him lose control. And this is a common pattern you see with a lot of abusers, even abusers that may not go to the extreme of serial killing, but just want to separate you from any outlet you can go to. Complete power. If you need it, if you're the only game in town, then your victim has to stay with you. And that's what they try to create, this bubble where they are judge and jury at all times.

Yes. Where there's no, you're in an echo chamber that they create. There's no room for third party opinions or second opinions. It's this is the narrative that I say our relationship is. This is our life. And you shouldn't have anybody close to you who's going to make you think there's something wrong with that. It our relationship is. This is our life. And you shouldn't have anybody close to who's going to make you think there's something wrong with that. It's very toxic. Agreed. So in 1985, Marlisa's family hired a private investigator in an effort to locate her and

her daughters, but no trace of them was found. The family had been right, though. Something was terribly wrong. Authorities estimate that Marlise and her children were killed sometime between one and two years after Thanksgiving of 1978, making her 25 or 26 at the time of her death. There you go, mid-20s. And Marie was believed to have been between eight and nine years old when she was murdered, while Sarah was between two and three. This is very much to me like the level of evil and depravity and emptiness that you have to have in you to take the life of a child, much less a child that's two or three years old. It brings me back to Chris Watts. Okay. I literally was thinking about the same thing. That story haunts me. I think about it every day almost. I can't not do it. That was one of the ones I do wish we

didn't cover. I remember you talking, and we're not even going to discuss it. I can't, I don't, I can't. That was one of the ones I do wish we didn't cover. Like, I remember you talking and we're not going to discuss it. I'll start crying right now, but the dialogue, right? We'll just say the dialogue of their last moments, like, man, brutal. Anyways, no, no, they're terrible, but it does take a special person to kill anyone. But the, to, to hurt a child, we've talked about it a million times. It's just a different level of evil, even beyond killing another human being. It's just I just don't get it. I don't. I don't.

I don't get it. It's like I don't. I don't get it. So many options. This is a bad person. And like I said, when you look at Terry Rasmussen, we know he died in prison, right? He had lung cancer and emphysema and probably less than he deserved. But when you look at somebody like this, what they're capable of when it comes to women

and children, and then you look at all of these cold cases, disappearances of young women, disappearances of children in the area of New Hampshire, in the area of California, I've already started pulling them now. How many of those could he have been responsible for? The unsolved ones that have gone decades with no movement. And also, like I said, that maybe they started when he changed his name. But then we think about someone like, allegedly, Rex Huriman, who started younger from what we know. And just the ones we're catching are the ones now. But you just don't know.

Once you pull off that scab, who knows? Who knows how many? It could be 10, could be 20, could be in the hundreds. You may never know all of them because think about what it took just to solve this one. It was good investigative work using science and technology, but also luck. Just luck of Becky Heath happening to listen to that podcast. Because again, if that doesn't happen, you don't get these connections. It takes Lisa slash Dawn's cousins uploading their DNA profile to a database, not knowing that it would end up solving all of these cases. It's just, some of it is just the right timing and you're not going to get lucky in all of these cases. So there's a lot of unfounded cases out there right now that may still be connected to Rasmussen and we just don't know it out there i i 100 i would be stunned if it wasn't shocked think about how hard it would be

to catch everything this guy did and the fact of the matter is he's dead right and even if he's never gonna do it yeah you can't even go to him and be like hey like you know like you're you're here for the rest of your life man man. Just at least tell your story. Yeah, he wouldn't. It's kind of like BTK. BTK wouldn't either. I mean, he did the drawings, but he's not going to tell you how deep it goes. It's just it's part of their gratification to keep you wondering.

Yeah. And I'm, you know, yeah, I would be stunned if we knew about all of his victims. There's no way. No, especially up in New Hampshire. There's just such a vast area of just woods and California, man. Exactly the same. It's like there's desert there and ocean and yeah, it's awful. So on June 5th, 2019, authorities held a press conference to announce that they had identified three of the four victims found in the Bear Brook barrels as Marley's Honey Church, her daughters Marie Vaughn and Sarah McWaters.

It had taken decades, but finally they had their names returned to them. At the press conference, Susan Morrell, the New Hampshire Senior Assistant Attorney General, acknowledged the tireless efforts of professionals and volunteers from across the country. She said, quote, they never stopped trying to identify the four victims in these barrels and they worked together to bring the answers to the victims' families today. Today, we've returned the identities and the dignity

to Marlies Honeychurch, Maria Vaughn, and Sarah McWatters, end quote. Associate Attorney General Jeffrey Strausen also spoke, emphasizing how crucial it was to expose Rasmussen's crimes. He said, quote, Together, we have been able to uncover the identity of the Allentown killer, a murderer who tried to erase his victims and hide in the process. He tried to hide who he was and what he did, but ultimately he wasn't successful. We know what he was.

We know what he did. We know what he did. And now we know who his victims were, end quote. And in the front row of the press conference sat members of Marlise's family, flanked by victims' advocates and members of law enforcement. Though they had requested privacy, they provided a statement that was read aloud by Strausen. Quote, this day comes with heavy hearts. Marlise, Marie, and Sarah were so loved by our families and they are greatly missed. We take solace in finally having the answers we have longed for. End quote. Authorities shared that they now believed the fourth victim, Rasmussen's biological daughter, had been born between 1975 and 1976 in California, Texas, or Arizona.

They said identifying her remained a top priority. Police were also searching for the remains of Denise Bowden, whose body had never been found. Strausen explained, quote, We don't know where she is. What we know is that Terry Rasmussen left four victims behind in New Hampshire. It is possible that Denise Bowden is, in fact, somewhere in New Hampshire, and we haven't found her. Collectively, we think it's more likely he probably left New Hampshire with her, end quote. Which is interesting, because although Terry Rasmussen has a similar MO as far as what his victims are like, what age range they're in,

they got kids, things like that, the way he disposes of them is different. So he left his last wife under a pile of kitty litter in the basement. Four of his victims were found in barrels in the woods. Some of his victims, they've never been located. Correct. What's the deal with that? I think it's just also luck again, because the barrel, as you said, the second barrel took 15 years to find and it was only 150 yards away. What if there's another barrel? I don't want to talk about that. It's so bad.

What if there's another barrel 600 yards away? You get what I'm saying? It's just very, it's a vast area. It's a needle in the haystack. Or in one of these redwood forests in California, man. And that too. That too. So, I mean, if she did leave New Hampshire, it's going to be very difficult to find her because obviously he had to travel across the country to get there. So many places he could have. And he went so many places.

Yeah. And, and also she could still be in New Hampshire somewhere. She could be in New Hampshire. She could be anywhere along the way. Like, let's say, you know, he's driving with her. Yes. At this point she's like, cause he ends up in California with her child. Right. But not with her. Right. So on your drive from New Hampshire to California, cross country, something happens to Denise and he keeps the child alive. But something happens to Denise.

If I had to guess, I don't think Denise was with him in the car. That's just my guess. I think he left New Hampshire without Denise and tells Dawn at that point, mommy's staying behind. Mommy didn't want to come with us. Something like that. Yeah. But remember Dawn said she remembered having siblings and that they died. She never said anything about what Terry Rasmussen had said about her mom. Yeah. Who knows? We may never know. Yeah. There could be another Jane Doe out there in one of these states that has gone unidentified all these years because there's no connection and it's Denise. Yeah. I'm going to look into it actually. Why not? Sometimes late at night when I don't have

the brainpower to dive into like a full case, I will sometimes do this. Like, are there any other bodies found in like parks or forests or things like this? Because that does seem if he's not leaving them in the basement and kitty litter. Think about how many Jane Doe cases we get submitted just for criminal coffee. There's thousands. Yeah, but they have her DNA because of Dawn slash Lisa. But they do have Dawn's DNA. But if they find Denise and her body is badly decomposed, they may not be able to pull any DNA from her unless they start to do like the mitochondrial DNA. Yeah, well, they may not be able to pull any DNA from her unless they

start to do like the mitochondrial DNA. Yeah. Well, they have this autosomal DNA. They don't do that in every case. They don't. But if there's a strong enough likelihood that it could be Denise, they could. Yes, they could. That's where we come in.

It's like five, six thousand dollars just for one case with no guarantees it's going to work. It's expensive. Oh, it is. But I think it's worth it. And I think for Dawn slash Lisa to know what happened to her mother and to have that final piece put into place, because so many answers for Dawn came with all this DNA stuff,

but not the mystery of what happened to her mother. And I think she probably would want to know that. I would guarantee it. All right, let's take a quick break. We'll be right back. Okay, months later in November of 2019, Marlise and her oldest daughter Marie were laid to rest together in Allentown, New Hampshire under a new headstone bearing their names.

Marlise's youngest daughter, Sarah, was buried in Connecticut near her father's family. That makes me sad that they were all separated. I know. That makes me very sad that they're not buried together. I don't know why, but that's very upsetting. So Diane, Terry Rasmussen's daughter, the woman who had helped authorities unravel his past, she was invited to attend the funeral. While there, she met Marlisa's family for the first time. She later said, quote, I don't know that I ever could make up for my father's sins. How do you ever make up

for something like that? They all said the same thing, that it wasn't my fault. But because of my father, they lost their sister and their nieces. The thing that binds us together is this horrible thing that has happened here, but they treated me just like I was their sister, end quote. I know. It's amazing how these people take these horrific situations and find ways to see the silver lining in it. Like, I don't know if I could be that optimistic. No, I think you definitely could be because if you think about it, Diane's just as much of a victim as anybody else. Of course she is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like we we're related and we we can come together on

that, which is, yeah, of course, this wasn't your fault. And you have to live with the fact that your father did this. That's punishment enough for anything, you know, that you never even deserved and didn't ask for. So at the funeral, Marlisa's brother, David, addressed the crowd. He said, quote, We're here today to bury my sister and my nieces. We as a family would like to thank the community for caring and loving our sister Marlise and our nieces Marie and Sarah. We have looked and searched for over 30 years for them with no luck. We have never stopped looking. Although this moment is bittersweet, they have their names back on this day. They can rest in peace. Thank you all from the bottom of our hearts. End quote. Now, with three of the four victims laid to rest, investigators continued trying to identify that third child.

In January of 2021, former Detective John Cody sat down with ABC News to discuss the case. He explained why he continued to speak about it even years after Rasmussen had died. He said, quote, you know, people ask me why I do these interviews. It's because there's still one victim out there. There's one girl who we don't know who she is. That's why I do these, to get her identified and so that there's closure for the families involved here. That's the only reason, end quote. Good for him. Good for him. And once again, just like Diane, this child of Terry Rasmussen's didn't ask for this, didn't ask to be born to this monster, didn't ask for what happened to her. And as Diane said, we talked about in episode two or part two of the series, this could have been her.

She could have become a victim, an actual physical victim of Terry Rasmussen's as well if she hadn't gotten away with her mother. Yeah. No, it's again, the forks in the road. And also, it could have gone better. You know, like, there could have been, you just never know. We hear about both sides of it, but fate, man, it always finds you. Marlisa's brother, David, said he and his family had given the girl a name of their own. He said, quote, we call her Angel, end quote. He added, quote, the focus from this day forward should be to find the family of that little girl, end quote. In addition to trying to identify the fourth child, investigators also sought to determine

whether Marley's Honey Church had been posing as Elizabeth Evans, the supposed wife of Bob Evans, which was the alias Rasmussen used while living in Manchester, New Hampshire. Investigators also needed to locate Rasmussen's ex, Denise Bowden, and figure out whether there were more unidentified victims. To do this, investigators continued examining Rasmussen's past, hoping to uncover patterns in his behavior that might help them find additional victims. Through their research, they came to believe that Rasmussen repeatedly targeted single mothers. He would enter relationships with them, gradually taking control of their lives. Once he had gained complete dominance, he would kill them. His victims often had young children

who he would take with him, using them as a way to lure in his next victim. He presented himself as a struggling single father playing on the sympathies of others. Meanwhile, he abused the children in his care. And as soon as they grew old enough to talk about what was happening, he killed them too. What a scumbag.

Yeah. What an absolute scumbag. This is the definition of somebody that gives nothing and just uses people and leeches off people and takes everything and drains everybody around them dry. Yep. And you can see it's when you have all the pieces of the puzzle, you can see this pattern

that they're describing now, right? And it takes an entire investigation to kind of put it all together. But now you can step back and you can look at it from a macro level and see, okay, here's what we got. Here's what we got. Here's what we got. And you can actually see the pattern of behavior through the years and you start to notice that it repeats itself, right? And unfortunately, in this case, it took too long to find him. Well, I can tell you that toxic men and bad men will often target single mothers. It's this vulnerability thing that these single mothers, you know, they don't want to raise their children alone. They feel like their children need a father figure, especially back in these times, right, the 80s.

Well, my children need a father. I need somebody to help me raise them. And so they're not as, I guess, discerning. And I count myself amongst them, trust me. We've all been there, but they're not as discerning. And especially when you have a charmer like Terry Rasmussen was described to be, you feel like, okay, I don't have to take care of everything on my own now. Somebody's here to help me. And then they turn around and stab you in the back. Yeah, I can see it. I can absolutely see it. Like he says, he sees that person who's looking for someone to step in and help them raise this. Oh, here I am. I'm here for you. And then the

light switch goes off and they change it and they show who they really are. But at that point, it's too late. Once they've isolated them from their friends and family and got them alone. Yeah. At that point, they don't even have anybody to turn to. Yes, yes. Well, Detective Peter Headley, who had helped Lisa identify her real name, Dawn, he said it was almost certain that Rasmussen had other victims. He said, quote, I'm sure there's a lot more.

Again, if he took two to three years to groom each victim and you start adding the years up, there's definitely more out there, end quote. 100%. And we've talked about that. And Headley said Rasmussen was also known to string along multiple women at the same time, grooming his next victim while still living with the previous one. Yeah, this goes back to what we were talking about in episode two, where there are other women

who have gone missing or turned up dead who were in the proximity of Rasmussen. And we talked about how law enforcement essentially ruled them out as possible victims of Rasmussen, which we both were kind of a little curious about because I don't know how they would come to that conclusion without having the answers, without having a body, without having an offender. So when we go back and we revisit the fact that there were other women in that area who fit the general description of what Rasmussen would target and the fact that they were so close to him and yet now they're gone, I think that's where this comes from, where he could have had multiple victims that

he was grooming at the same time. And for one reason or another, he decided to abort that plan and instead just cut to the ending, which was to kill them. I just don't know how the detectives can say there's definitely more, but it's not these women who are literally living on the same street as him. Yeah, and we're not going to tell you why we don't think they're connected. I don't know. I don't know. In February of 2020, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and New Hampshire authorities released a new forensic sketch of the unidentified third child. Associate Attorney General Jeff Strausen stated, quote, The picture is the best information we have right now of what this victim looked like in life.

The hope is that this would trigger a memory on someone's part, maybe not only of the child, but also the mother, end quote. Through continued genealogical research and forensic testing, authorities determined that the little girl was primarily Caucasian, but she also had small amounts of Asian, Black, and American Indian ancestry. They believe she was born between 1975 and 1977, and described her as having slightly wavy brown hair and standing between three feet, three inches, and three feet, nine inches tall. She also had a slight overbite that may have been noticeable during her life. Investigators believed she was not originally from New Hampshire,

but was possibly from Texas, Arizona, California, or Oregon, though no location had been ruled out. Analysis of her bones suggested that she may have had anemia at some point in her life, though this could not be confirmed. Authorities continued working to identify the third child. In 2021, police in Louisiana announced that new genealogical research suggested the girl may have relatives from Pearl River County, Mississippi. Research indicated that both she and her biological mother were descendants of one of two men born in the mid-1800s, Thomas Dead Horse Mitchell, born in 1836, or William Livings, born in 1826. This meant that the unidentified girl

was likely the fifth or sixth great-grandchild of one of these men. While investigators believe the girl's maternal relatives were most likely from Pearl River County, they had not ruled out other possibilities. Police encouraged people in the Pearl River County area to submit their DNA to GEDmatch or Family Tree DNA if they were comfortable doing so. This could help increase the chances of identifying the child and her mother. While investigators continue working to identify the fourth victim, many people online speculated about what other unsolved cases Terry Rasmussen could be responsible for. One of these cases was known as the Lady in the Fridge, a decades-old mystery from San Joaquin County, California. In 2021, former County Assistant Sheriff John Huber publicly stated that he believed

she could be another of Rasmussen's victims. He explained that in 1995, scavengers searching for scrap metal came across a discarded refrigerator in a San Joaquin County canal. The appliance had been tightly secured with a rope, and when the scavengers waded through the mud to open it, they were met with a horrifying sight. Inside the refrigerator was the decomposed body of a woman. Her facial features were no longer discernible, making identification nearly impossible. She had been placed in the refrigerator with a pillow, a sleeping bag, and what appeared to be several blankets.

Investigators also found an unusual brand of milk inside the refrigerator, one that had been distributed in a specific area. That area happened to overlap with locations where Rasmussen had been at the time. Additionally, Huber noted that the circumstances of her murder were strikingly similar to Rasmussen's other victims. She had died from blunt force trauma to the head, a hallmark of his previous crimes. She had been placed inside a container and dumped in a remote location, much like the Bear Brook barrels. Despite these similarities, the case stalled because the woman remained unidentified. Huber explained, quote, first thing we need to do is find out who she is,

because without knowing who she is, it's pretty hard to track back and find out where she stayed and who her relatives were and who she was associated with. It well could be Terry. It well could be somebody else. But I think until we know her identity, we're not going to solve the case. End quote. Now, two years later, in 2023, authorities identified the lady in the fridge as 30-year-old Amanda Lynn Schumann Deza. According to her family, Amanda was last seen in 1994 at an unknown apartment complex in Napa, California, where she had been staying with a man she had met at her rehabilitation facility. At the time of her disappearance, she had been separated from her husband and was the mother of three young children. Tragically, Amanda had never been reported missing.

Her family was stunned when they received the news of her identification. Investigators explained, quote, she was a 30-year-old woman out on her own and had her own life, so the family just didn't know, end quote. To this day, Amanda's murder remains unsolved. See, I just don't understand this. I'm sorry. I don't understand being shocked that your family member, who you haven't heard from

in decades, is no longer with us. And, oh, she was a 30-year-old woman. She had her own life, so nobody knew. Like, my sister is a 33-year-old woman, but if I didn't hear, who has her own life, her own boyfriend, she lives in her own house, she's got her own pets and her own hobbies. But if I didn't hear from her for a few weeks, I'd probably report her missing. Right. Well, you have a different relationship with your sister though. You're telling me nobody had a relationship with Amanda where they were like, and she just came out of a rehabilitation

facility. So you're not worried that some foul play has befallen her? Come on, man. Listen, we got to be real here. There are definitely cases and family members, and I know this to be true because I know instances in my own circle where this is true, where for all we know, this was something that was a reoccurring issue. And maybe this was the time where her family said, you know what? We're done. We're not getting involved. You do what you got to do. And this was unfortunately the time where she fell or met some fell into some bad habits, met the wrong person. And it wasn't intentional. I'm sure for the family members knew that she was in danger. They would have acted sooner, but they thought

it was just another reoccurrence. And I'm not saying it's right. That lasted forever? Oh yeah. Again, we can't, everybody is different and family dynamics are so complex. I really try not to hold them accountable for certain things. Now I will say this, if they had a close relationship and we knew that and they just felt like, oh, they didn't need to report it, that's a problem. But without knowing the specifics of their relationship,

it's hard to judge too hard. But maybe I'm being the softy here. Lay it down in the comments. Let me know. It makes me sad because this woman didn't have one person, not even a family member, but one person in her life that would care enough to report her to the police because she wasn't answering calls. Nobody had seen her. She apparently had a drug or alcohol problem. This is a vulnerable person.

And not one person in her life cared about her enough to just call the police and say, hey, can you just do a wellness check? I just want to know she's alive. She doesn't have to come home. She doesn't have to call me. I just want to know she's alive. Oh, don't get me started on Armand. That's what I'm saying. Because I feel the same way. Armand was close to his daughter, dude. Apparently that that's why I was a little bit more side eye with that one. It's like, what are we doing here? You know, what are we doing? Oh, I didn't think I needed to. What? I don't know. It's just it's very? Oh, I didn't think I needed to. What? I don't know.

It's just, it's very sad. I don't know. I try not to get caught in the weeds when we're talking about these cases, because would it have made a difference in this investigation? No. What was going to happen was going to happen, but it wouldn't maybe take this long to figure it out if she had been reporting. You don't know. I don't know. You don't know. I don't know. You don't know. Well, while Amanda's identification was a major breakthrough, investigators have not publicly linked her case to Terry Rasmussen.

It remains unclear whether they believe he was involved, as they have not mentioned him in connection to her murder since she was identified. Another case that some believe could be linked to Rasmussen is the disappearance of 14-year-old Lauren Rahn, who vanished from her Manchester, New Hampshire home in 1980. At the time, Rasmussen was living just a mile and a half away. On April 27th, 1980, at 3.45 a.m., Manchester police responded to 239 Merrimack Street for a report of a missing teenage girl.

Lauren's mother told officers that she'd been out of town for the night, leaving Lauren at home. When she returned home at around 1.15 a.m., she noticed that the back door was open and the front door was unlocked. Upon searching the home, she found that Lauren's friend was asleep in Lauren's bed, but Lauren was gone. According to the friend, the two had been drinking alcohol earlier that night. At some point, Lauren had left the bedroom, taking a pillow and a blanket to sleep on the couch. But when her mother came home hours later, Lauren was nowhere to be found. Investigators found no signs of a struggle inside the apartment. They believed Lauren may

have left voluntarily, expecting to return soon. She hadn't taken any clothing, money, or personal belongings with her. Despite extensive searches, Lauren was never seen or heard from again. Now, though some have speculated that Rasmussen could have been involved, police have never found any evidence linking him to Lauren's disappearance. Still, criminologist Jack Levin has pointed out that Rasmussen was living in the area at the time and that another woman, Denise Denault, also disappeared from the same neighborhood during the same time period. Now, we're going out and saying here that it looks like Rasmussen could have been responsible for these. And if just sitting where I'm sitting, I don't think that has changed.

But the scary thing is that there are many Rasmussens out there and some of them haven't been apprehended yet. So could there have been somebody else operating in that vicinity? And it just a coincidence, of course, but based on what we know about Rasmussen's pattern of behavior, the proximity to where these women disappeared and knowing what he's capable of, it's not, it's, it doesn't look good. It's very, it's very possible that he is in fact connected to those murders as well, or those, at least at this point, disappearances. Disappearances, right. Well, Levin hopes investigators take a closer look at any possible connections.

And he said, quote, it seems to me that when you see people missing who live on the same street as the killer and it happens more than once, you have to believe he is the killer. Thank you, Jack. That's what we said. Yep, agreed. He continues in saying, in my view, I think we have to look for the relationship Rasmussen had with all these missing people.

I think if we find the relationship, we will also find the killer, end quote. Yeah, it's not, it's, that's, I don't believe in coincidences to this level. No, I'm with you. If I'm betting my money on it, I'm saying that he's responsible for their disappearances as well. I think he was going on a rampage in that area. There's probably

even more victims than we know that haven't been connected. New Hampshire is a good size state. That's why he got the hell out of there and went all the way across the country to California. He had done his damage there and decided, I got to go. And again, there's so many wooded areas out there. There's so many places and locations that a body could be left behind and due to predation or just decomposition or whatever you have, there's a real possibility you would never find them, even if they were left in an area to be found. Yeah. And I mean, he didn't seem to try to hide these first two barrels that well. No, he didn't. But that could have, listen, based on practices that could evolve over time, Rex Shurman, it evolved. At certain points,

he was using duck blinds and he did other things and they do evolve as they go. And maybe that was at the beginning or maybe it was at the end, but maybe he smartened up and decided to really dispose of the bodies in a way that they couldn't be found. That's also possible. Well, I mean, his last victim, he buried her in cat litter. So maybe that was sort of what he was doing in the meantime, because at that point, DNA technology had caught up a little bit more, kind of caught up, and he would be aware of that. I feel like these criminals who commit crimes in the 80s

and then they're kind of still going hard through the 90s and into the 2000s they're like oh shit i wonder how much of my dna is all over these these crime scenes i need to be more careful from now on and maybe this is when he started to change up his mo when when he realized technology was not in favor of the criminals any longer yeah no anything's possible to to try to understand well how these guys think it. It's a good thing we don't know. I mean, we try, but there's only so far you can go. If your brain doesn't work in this way. Trying to rationalize the irrational.

Yeah. It's just these guys think differently than the normal everyday person. We don't think about killing children. That's not something that you should be considering. But yet these guys are doing it, and these are reoccurring offenders. They're not just one-time thing that happens and just a crime of passion or whatever. They get gratification from it. They need to be completely eradicated from this world all at once.

That'd be great. Yeah, there needs to be some sort of rapture, like a psychopath rapture. Yeah, that'd be great. There's such a huge difference between somebody who, and I'm not saying that either are right, but somebody who kills in like a crime of passion or they got too excited

or they thought they were being threatened and then they turned around. You know what I mean? And then somebody who systematically and consistently goes their whole life leaving a trail of bodies behind them. They know what they're doing the minute they meet these people. Worse than animals, yeah. They know the ending of the story when they initially say, hello, I'm Terry. They know where it's going to go in their

mind. And that's the scariest part about it. It really is because you know that there's people out there that just use others and look at others almost as like NPCs. Like you're not even real. You don't exist to me. You're here to further my needs. You're here to deliver me what I need and what I want. And when you're done, I'll dispose of you because you're less than trash to me. Yep. They're the main character in their own story. So as the years passed, investigators remained committed to finding answers for the unidentified Bear Brook victim and for Denise Bowden.

The most recent development came in October of 2024 when the DNA Doe Project announced plans to use advanced forensic DNA techniques in an effort to identify Rasmussen's daughter, the fourth victim found in the barrels. Whether their efforts will succeed remains to be seen. But one thing is certain, her name, her story, and her life mattered. Just as investigators refused to let Denise Bowden fade into obscurity, they refused to let this little girl remain anonymous. As long as her identity remains unknown, so does the full truth of Terry Rasmussen's crimes. Even decades later, the search for justice is far from over. And I almost wonder, where did this child come from? Because we know Terry was married a few times. We know he had children with his first wife, Diana's mother. But where's the mother of this little girl?

She's dead somewhere too. We can only assume that she's another victim. That was my initial thought, and that's my thought as I sit here right now. She's dead somewhere else. There's definitely other bodies that have yet to be discovered. Now, maybe the daughter stayed alive a little bit longer than mom, and that's why she's in a different location. But it almost seems like

to me and again i'm trying to just paint a picture here it may be completely off but it seems like the barrel incidents were the last crimes before leaving and it was to tie up some quote-unquote loose ends he wanted to get rid of anybody who could tie back to him who could link back to him he did that and i think there are bodies buried in other locations. And that's when he left, in my opinion, with Lisa slash Dawn. I think that, I don't know if mom came with him, maybe, but I don't see it. I think before he left New Hampshire, he got rid of anybody who could connect him to any other crimes, or at least he thought he did. Keeping Lisa alive is what actually led to his undoing. That's what it was really leaving her, not only taking her with him,

but then leaving her behind in California. That's what really started this ball rolling. And thank God for that. So I'm looking at this, the child that's unidentified is thought to be between two and four years old. And they believe she was born between 1975 and 1977. Yeah. Blunt force trauma as well with her. That's what we're looking at. Yeah. And if you look at Rasmussen's movements, in June of 1975, he was arrested in Phoenix for

aggravated assault. And it's believed that his wife and children left him shortly after this arrest. That would put him single and on ready to mingle, you know, after June of 1975. Between 1975 and 1976, he has an unexpected visit to his wife and children in Payson, Arizona. At that time, he's in the company of an unidentified female. And he said he was living at the Casadel Ray Apartments in Ingleside, Texas. This is the last time that Rasmussen's family sees him. So is that unidentified female the mother of this child? Could be. Or it could be another woman. It could be another woman that he was seeing at the same time he was seeing this woman. That's his MO. And so maybe something happens where he gets rid of

mom, keeps the baby around for a couple years. We don't know the exact age. And so maybe something happens where he gets rid of mom, keeps the baby around for a couple years. We don't know the exact age. And then before leaving New Hampshire with Dawn slash Lisa, he gets rid of everybody. I still wonder, and I know he's dead. We can't ask him. I would like to know why. Why he decided not to kill Lisa slash Dawn as well. He was good. The investigators believe he was going to. But why travel all across the country with her? Because he wasn't done abusing her yet. And yeah, the simple explanation.

He hadn't found the next relationship, the next single mother to branch off to. And maybe that lowered the guards of women in his, the future that he would meet because he had a child with them. They see him as more of a safe person. Yeah. he could have been using her for multiple reasons, the abuse, but also as a mechanism to lower the guard of potential victims in the future. Hey, look at my daughter. I'm a good guy. Mom's no longer here. It's like you got away with killing all these people. And then in 2002, you kill your girlfriend slash wife in soon for freaking what, dude? That's it.

He can't help himself. He must not be able to help himself. It's not like you don't say to yourself, like, I've gotten away with so much and technology is catching up. I better be careful. It's like, no. It's crazy. Sociopaths don't change.

That's who they are. They can't. They can't help themselves. And so they just have to do whatever their mind tells them that they got to do. They're not going to change over time. They're not going to become a better person. There's only one, well, there's two paths for those types of people. One's dead and one's behind bars. I mean, that's the only path they should have.

But we know that a lot of these people stay out there in the wild, on the loose. Yeah, they're still out there. For decades and sometimes forever. Yep. And that's why we have to cover these cases because as unnerving and as scary as they can be, there are signs. They're minimal and you have to be aware of it. You have to be paying attention, but there are indicators where your spidey sense, your gut will go off and say, something just doesn't smell right with this person. Act on that. Believe in your intuition. The worst case scenario, you're wrong about them there's a friend you could

have had that never became oh well but you're alive so trust your gut and rely on it and and hope that you're making the right decisions because that decision to walk away from someone to not get involved with someone to not hang out with this person to not go to that particular bar or party may be the difference between life and death. I hate to be extreme with it, but as if there's anything you've picked up over these last four years from watching us talk about these cases, a lot of these tragedies come down to one decision. You can make the choice in many of them. I mean, you're basically saying he didn't have a choice to make though, that he couldn't make a choice. I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about from the victim's perspective, right? When you come in contact with people like a Terry Rasmussen, he's going to do what he's

going to do. I want people to look at this case from the victim side of things and say, what can I do to better protect myself? Because there are victims of abuse and there are victims who are right now living this nightmare who are looking for a way out, maybe listening or watching this. And there are opportunities, which I know at the end of the script here, you have some information for people, but there's a lot of different resources. But if you have any information regarding these cases or any other cases for that matter, authorities urge you to contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children for missing and exploited children at 1-800-843-5678, or you can visit www.missingkids.org. Or with this particular case, you can contact Deputy Peter Headley with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department at pheadleyatsbcsd.org. And I'll just spell that out for you in case you didn't know it. It's P-H-E-A-D-L-E-Y

at SBCSD.org. And like I said, there's a lot of resources out there. If you know anything about this case or any other case, come forward, share that information. The worst case scenario, they already have it. Or maybe you end up being the Becky Heath where your information leads to an outcome that would not have been possible without that little piece of information, that little nugget that you had that opens up a whole new can of worms, which leads to all these new responses and these new results that would not be possible without you. Any final words from you? This was a fascinating series, obviously never the ending we want, but I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned here.

And we talked about it. Most of it, number one, just stay safe out there. And I, we say it every episode. It sounds like a thing. I wear the hat, all that bullshit, but really just, just go out there, live your life, enjoy it, but understand that life is precious and it can be taken in a second. So you got to stay conscientious of your surroundings and be cautious of the people you associate with and do your best to protect yourself and those you care about. Any final words from you? No, I'm just looking at the picture

of this unidentified child, the picture that they created. Yeah, we could throw that up here as well and we can post that. Guys, as always, we appreciate you being here with us. This was a good series i think we all took a lot from it and we're gonna be back next week with a new series but until then everyone stay safe out there and we'll see you soon bye Bye.