Crime Weekly - S3 Ep309: Darlie Routier: The Bloodstained Timeline of a Mother’s Story (Part 3)

Episode Date: June 6, 2025

In the early morning hours of June 6, 1996, a frantic 911 call came in from a quiet neighborhood in Rowlett, Texas. On the line was 26-year-old Darlie Routier, who said she and her sons had been stabbed by an intruder while they slept in the downstairs family room. When first responders arrived, they found a horrific scene—six-year-old Devon and five-year-old Damon lying on the floor with multiple stab wounds, while Darlie was walking around, bleeding from several knife injuries of her own. As officers cleared the house and paramedics worked to save the victims, Darlie repeated the same story: a man in dark clothing had come into the family room, stabbed her and her children, then fled through the garage—leaving the knife behind. But as investigators began to process the scene and piece together what had unfolded in the Routier home, a new set of questions emerged—about Darlie’s version of events, the physical evidence, and what she did—and didn’t do—after the attack. We're coming to CrimeCon Denver! Use our code CRIMEWEEKLY for 10% off your tickets! https://www.crimecon.com/CC25 Try our coffee!! - www.CriminalCoffeeCo.com Become a Patreon member -- > https://www.patreon.com/CrimeWeekly Shop for your Crime Weekly gear here --> https://crimeweeklypodcast.com/shop Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CrimeWeeklyPodcast Website: CrimeWeeklyPodcast.com Instagram: @CrimeWeeklyPod Twitter: @CrimeWeeklyPod Facebook: @CrimeWeeklyPod ADS: 1. https://www.EatIQBAR.com -  Text WEEKLY to 64000 for 20% off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping! 2. https://www.HelloFresh.com/CrimeWeekly10FM - Get 10 Free Meals with a Free Item For Life! 3. https://www.OneSkin.co - Use code CRIMEWEEKLY for 15% off! After you purchase, they’ll ask you where you heard about them. PLEASE support your show and tell them we sent you!

Hello everybody, welcome back to Crime Weekly. I'm Stephanie Harlow. And I'm Derek Lavasser. So today we're diving into part three of the Darlie Routier case with her two sons, Devin and Damon, being stabbed to death in their family home. Darlie also had some wounds so this happened in the early morning hours of June 6th 1996. It was six-year-old Devin Routier and his five-year-old brother Damon who were brutally stabbed to death and what followed would become one of

the most scrutinized investigations in Texas history. And Derek and I both agreed from the start something about the scene and the circumstances did feel off. The evidence didn't match the mother, Darlie's ever-changing account. Items appeared to have been moved or staged, and there were few signs of the violent struggle that she described.

And while investigators combed through the house, Darlie was in the hospital with knife wounds of her own wounds that ended up being very superficial, unlike her son's wounds. And over the next two days, she showed very little emotion. Her sort of demeanor was described as being flat. She gave slightly different versions of what happened to detectives, to nurses, to family members. Nurses were hearing her tell family members different versions of the story. Just an absolute mess. And then on June 8th, just two days after the murders, Darlie was released from the hospital. But instead of heading straight to the boys viewing at the funeral home, she and Darren would be escorted to the police station for

another round of questioning where Darlie would give yet another version of what happened. That's what we're picking up today. Derek, before we dive in to the police station for another round of questioning where Darlie would give yet another version of what happened. That's what we're picking up today. Derek, before we dive in to the meat and potatoes of this case, do you have anything you want to bring up, talk about? I think it just kind of goes with what you just said as far as the recap with our comments on YouTube. There are people, and it's not a lot, but it's interesting as you're going through the comments, there are people like, wow, there's actually people out there who believe she's innocent, and then there's a lot of comments of people who believe she's innocent, not knowing the other comments yet. And one of the things that people are really holding on to, and I'm open to it, is that the injuries for Darlie were significant. And that's one interpretation of it, but I would just push back and say Medical experts have disagreed with you and I always go back to the thing that's indisputable which is

Don't worry about the significance of her injuries focusing on Devin and Damon's injuries and then hers Comparatively speaking are they similar or does it seem like two different people carried out those crimes? Yes. They're not consistent. That to me is the biggest issue. Is that the consistency between the three people, two of them is very consistent. With Darlene it is not. And I would expect, and a couple people pointed out in the comments, if I'm the perpetrator, I'm going to injure or kill the the biggest and most threatening person first, because they're the person that can derail my plans the easiest.

So the fact that that wasn't done, the inconsistency in the conduct of the offender is my biggest concern as far as there being one person who committed the stabbings of all three individuals. So there's a lot to go over and there were some things in the comments that you have yet to talk about, so I won't say them here. There's some, I guess you would say, explanations as to why Darlie maybe didn't react the way that I would expect her to, the way that many people would expect her to. And there has been some... What, the pills she was taking and things? Other things, but also that she may have been,

she may have been administered some type of agent that would have made her stay unconscious for a longer period of time. It's all in there. There's some things, some injuries to her mouth that were brought up that I'm not familiar with, but we're gonna cover it. I mean, this is a long series.

We wouldn't be doing it Crying Weekly style if we didn't go into all the little Nooks and crannies of the case. That's why it's gonna be a five-part series and we're only on part three So we're gonna go over it all we're gonna cover it. There's gonna be things you agree on things You don't we're just trying to engage in a in a constructive Conversation a discussion and there were other people who mentioned the sock as well Which I also have questions about and yes We will be diving into that as well So we're not trying to drive you any which way Stephanie has been very honest about the fact that she feels she's guilty

I and have already suggested that I have some some major concerns at this point going into part three But am I open to changing my course and going a different direction? Yeah I have no skin in the game. If I at the end of this think that Darlie's innocent I'll say it. On the other hand if I think she's guilty I'm gonna say that as well. So we're gonna go wherever the evidence takes us and you may not agree with us but the point is to talk about it openly and let everyone voice their opinions Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, it's not that I think she's guilty necessarily It's just that I think she's lying and so when why would someone lie because they have something to hide

I mean you said multiple times you think she's guilty in this Yeah, I think she did it like why I don't know and and I wish that you know I wish I I'm the kind of person where it's like, I need to know why someone did something before I can wholeheartedly sort of get on board with the fact that they did it. Like, and it's a struggle for me because I'm always trying to figure out

what people's motives are. And it's like, well, maybe you didn't intentionally do this. Maybe it wasn't, but how was something like this an accident? And I have to go back and forth. So I'm like, why? I just can't find any motive, any reason that would, that would pop into her head of why she would do this and like, and do it in this way, right?

It's so vicious. It would have had to have been a setup. She would have had to have been planning it. And that's hard to wrap your head around. So yeah, I do think she did this for sure. We know. Did she have help? I wonder if she did have help.

If I'm going with my gut, I kind of think she did have some help. Who was that and what kind of, to what capacity? I don't know, but yeah, it's very difficult for me to try and wrap my head around the motives of why somebody would do something like this, because there doesn't seem to be any good motive. On that note, because you're not the only one who's mentioned that, that was also

mentioned in the comments and people like Derek, Stephanie, we want to hear more about the motive. We get all the the means and the opportunity but what about the motive? But I want to say this before you even get into the motive. As someone who's worked cases that involve a homicide, the motive might not make sense even once you hear it, right? It doesn't mean it's going to be, let's just all agree on this. There's no motive that's going to make sense for killing two young kids, right? There's no motive that's going to make sense. So trying to rationalize the irrational can sometimes pose a problem. So all of it is, that's what I'm saying, Derek. It's a huge problem for me. I try to rationalize

the irrational and when I can't, I find myself very torn. I just wanna say that, that as we go through this series, we may not be able to pinpoint a motive because most people, there wouldn't be enough motive to do something like this. So we have to get into the mind of the person who conducted the crime, and they may not even know truly why they did it,

especially if they were going through some type of mental duress or struggle. So just keep that in mind, that it's not always gonna be black and white as far as means, motive, opportunity. Yes, means and opportunity is pretty clear cut. That's usually how we figure out what happened. But as far as the why,

the only person who will truly know that is the person who carried out this crime. And like you said, maybe not even that person. Correct. If there's some mental health issue going on. Just keep that in mind as we go forward because not every case is going to make sense when it comes to that particular question. All right, so let's dive in then to today's episode and the new information.

We're talking about Darlie and her husband, Darren, going to the police station for questioning on the day that she's released from the hospital which is June 8th. So on June 8th Darlie and Darren go to the police station and surprise surprise Darlie's new version of events was different from everything she'd shared before. In her own cursive writing Darlie started by describing the evening of June 5th. So this is the, I guess the night that everything happened or you know, the day of. And she said she was putting dinner together when Darren and her sister, Dana,

came home from working in the shop. And not long after that, Devin and Damon came back inside. They'd been outside playing with kids in the neighborhood. They all ate dinner together, and then the boys asked if they could go back outside and play. Darlie said yes, and she, Darren, and Dana stayed in the house. They all ate dinner together and then the boys asked if they could go back outside and play. Darlie said yes and she, Darren, and Dana stayed in the house watching TV. At some point Darlie told Darren she wasn't feeling so well and asked if he could drive her sister Dana home. Dana had actually been

staying with them for the last two weeks and this would be the first night that she didn't. So the boys came home a little while later and asked if they could bring pillows and blankets into the family room and watch TV. Darlie said yes and she made them some popcorn. It wasn't long before Darren got back from dropping Dana off and joined them all in the family room. Let's not skip over that.

That's very interesting. Yeah, the sister being with them for the last two weeks, yeah. Staying with them. So you could take that two ways. And we'll make it quick because we want to keep this ball rolling. It could be one angle of some type of counterintelligence going on, some reconnaissance going on outside the property where the offender or offenders are aware that there's another outside party staying at the residence

and therefore they're not going to act. But you would think if that were the case, there would be some accounts of a suspicious vehicle or person or persons outside the property for an extended period of time, because this would either be someone who was sitting there watching the property or who had inside information. They were a friend or family member. On the other hand, if you're in the camp that Darlie did this, this would be the first time where there's nobody else in the house, a third party witness who could ruin their plans or another narrative that's in

play that could ultimately hurt her storytelling abilities. If law enforcement becomes involved. So these are things you have to consider, but I do find it interesting that the first day after Dana is no longer there. That's when this all goes down. Pretty big coincidence. If this is some random act of violence where this is a robbery gone wrong or something the fact that they chose this particular night that is Very interesting. Yeah, it's very lucky for them the the offender right very lucky and very lucky for Dana obviously. Yeah allegedly So I the first place my my brain went to was this was set up This was the first time she could strike when there wasn't somebody there to sort of

Counter her story or to have an eyewitness or an ear witness there I think that's a reasonable assumption to come to for most people Okay, so now Darley and Darren are in the family room with their children Drake started getting fussy So Drake's the baby Darley made him a bottle and Darren fed him while the other boys fell asleep. When Drake was done eating, Darren took him upstairs to his crib and then came back down to talk with Darley.

She told him she'd been feeling depressed. She hadn't been able to take the boys anywhere because they only had one car since the Jaguar was broken down and Darren usually had it. Darren told him he loved her and asked if she wanted him to sleep downstairs with her. I guess Darlie had been sleeping down there for about a week.

Drake slept in the crib in their bedroom upstairs, and any time he moved, it woke her up. So Darlie said no. She didn't think Darren would sleep while on the couch. Now, here's my thing. Where was Dana sleeping? Is there a spare bedroom? If there's a spare bedroom, why isn't Darlie

occupying the spare bedroom? If there's a spare bedroom, why isn't Darlie occupying the spare bedroom now that it's free? Why is she still downstairs on the couch and she's been down there for about a week? Does Dana corroborate that? Does Dana corroborate that Darlie has been sleeping on the couch for a week and where the hell is Dana sleeping? They must have a spare bedroom. There's gotta be something. Gotta be a guest bedroom or something. It's a pretty big house. Yeah, but if they do, why would Darlie choose to sleep on the couch that night instead of going to sleep in an actual bed so she could get some sleep? I know we all have crashed on couches when we have to, but if there's an available bed,

I think we would choose that if we're trying to get a good night's sleep. Yeah, I would think so, but I mean, I don't know how comfortable the couch was. Maybe there was a certain spot she liked. I've definitely fell asleep on the couch. I can't do it. I can't sleep on the couch, man. That's the thing, right? We have to step outside what we would do because everybody's different and how you act and how I react to certain things is going to be very different from the hundreds of thousands of people who are listening or watching this episode right now.

So looking at it from everyone's perspective as best as we can, there could be just a reasonable explanation for why she was sleeping downstairs. But it is interesting that she said that she hadn't been feeling well and your words exactly were depressed. And she was maybe choosing to sleep on the couch because she wanted to be alone. She wanted to be away from everyone. These are all, this is all speculative. Can I bring something up that I noticed? This is all speculative. Can I bring something up that I noticed? Yeah.

So, Darlie says she's been sleeping on the couch for a week because Drake slept in his crib in their bedroom upstairs. And any time Drake would move, it would wake her up. Right. So, Darlie's getting woken up by a baby moving in his crib. Ooh, I know where to go with this. But not your two children being stabbed to death in the same room as you? Great observation.

Great observation. Now, the counter to that is going to be what we'll discuss either tonight or I don't know when you have it planned, but there are people out there who have an explanation as to why she wouldn't have woken up during these attacks. I don't know if I believe it or not, but we're gonna talk about it and we'll go from there. But there is an explanation for that according to some people, and we will get there at a point during the series.

Yeah, of course, we are definitely going to talk about that and the theories surrounding that during the series, of course, we have to address that. All right, so Darren and Darlie are in the family room. Darlie says, no, you don't have to sleep down here with me, blah, blah, blah. They laid together for a little while on the couch and then around 1230 or 1 a.m. Darren went upstairs to bed. Darley then wrote about what happened next, stating, quote, After a while, I started to

get sleepy. The next thing I wake up and feel a pressure on me. I felt Damon press on my right shoulder and heard him cry. This made me really come awake and realized there was a man standing down at my feet walking away from me. I walked after him and heard glass breaking. I got halfway through the kitchen and turned back around to run and turn on the light. I ran backwards towards the utility room and realized there was a big white handled knife lying on the floor." End quote. So this is different than she told the original police officer.

She said she woke up and the man was standing over her and you know was stabbing her. She woke up to that but now she's waking up and there's a man standing at her feet walking away from her and she like in a trance I guess gets up and walks after him. How does she know that this man's not Darren? It acts like she's it kind of seems like she just kind of rose Like like in a trance like a sleepwalking thing and just fought because she didn't run after him She didn't say hey, what are you doing? She just was like a man was walking away and so I stood up and I followed him

Yeah, doesn't make any sense. So Darlie then went on quote It was then that I realized I had blood all over me, and I grabbed the knife thinking he was in the garage. I looked over and saw the door shut to the garage, so I thought he might still be in there, and I yelled to get Darren. I ran back through the kitchen and realized the entire living area had blood all over everything. I put the knife on the counter and ran into the entrance, turned on the light and started screaming for Darren. I think I screamed twice and he ran out of his bedroom with his jeans on and no glasses and was yelling, what is it? What is it? I remember saying he cut them. He tried to kill me. Darren ran down the stairs and into the room where the boys were. I grabbed the phone and called 911. Darren started giving Devon CPR while I put a towel on my neck and a towel on Damon's back." End quote.

Now we have to remember, not only was Darlie told multiple times by paramedics and police officers to help her children, but there was never a towel found on Damon. No towel was found on Damon, so she didn't put a towel on him because where did it go? Where did it go? Did it dissolve? Did it fly away? That doesn't make sense. Can I also pose another question? I was thinking about this over the weekend, which is crazy to think this is what I'm thinking about over the weekend, but knowing we're going to come back and cover part three. And I was thinking about Darren specifically and about me as a father if I was in Darren's shoes. And again, everyone reacts differently. I say that all the time. But I do ask myself, and maybe this is because of my law enforcement background, but if they were downstairs yelling and I come downstairs and Darlie says to me, someone just stabbed the boys,

they stabbed me and they ran into the garage. I don't know if they're still in there. As much as I wanted would minister CPR to my child, I don't know if I'm going to do that immediately. I know that that's what I should do. But for me, I'd be thinking the minute I get down on my knees to try to help, this guy's gonna come back in this room and kill us all.

So I think at that point as a protector, I would probably go towards the garage and try to find this guy and kill him if I can. I gotta take him out before he takes us out. So I'm grabbing a knife or a gun, whatever I have at my school. Right, because the garage door's closed. You know the garage door's closed. You know, the garage door is closed.

So if he's still in there, he's still on your property, still in your house. He could pop back in anytime. He might have more weapons out there. We don't know. I got to get the drop on him. So I want, I pose this question to you, but I also pose it to everybody listening right now, everybody watching, what do you do in that situation? Like what is the, I don't think there is a right decision. It's depending on what you feel. Obviously based on what we have here, it was the right decision because

the offender, if there was one, wasn't on the property anymore. But Darren would have came downstairs not knowing that. And if my wife is saying, the guy who did this is in the garage, I got to go after him. No. Am I wrong in that? I mean, I got to go for him. If I think there's any potential that this guy who just stabbed my entire family is still in there, I gotta kill him. I gotta go get him first.

Listen, none of this makes sense. The stories of Darlie have changed so many times and with such small minuscule details that at this point it's impossible to even keep up with the ways, the tiny little ways that they've changed. But I do believe the tiny little ways that they've changed, but I do believe the tiny little ways that they've changed are important. And as far as I remember, and I'm gonna double check now,

when the first responding officer came in, nobody was doing anything, and he instructed Darren to perform CPR on his child. Yeah, and that would make sense. Just to wrap this up, because I don't want people being like, where are you going with this, Derek? My my point being we're focusing a lot on Darley But the fact that Darren didn't run into the garage after this guy to protect his family Does that raise a concern for you or and I'm saying that to you and I'm saying it to everybody

I don't know what kind of man he is. He could be like a little okay, so we don't know So you're not like you're not like it's not something that's a huge red flag for you is what I'm saying No, because I can only think as a mother right and you're thinking as a father as a mother my kids are coming first I don't you're going back in it's the guy comes back in for you. That's it is what it is You're going to guy comes back in for me then you deal with it God will go out together But at this point I'm gonna make sure that my kids are taken care of and hopefully the man in the house will do The running out and chasing the perpetrator thing

because obviously he's gonna have better luck with this guy than I am. I also don't know why Darlie would put the knife down and then like go to see if the guy was in the garage. Like, why would you pick it up at all if you weren't gonna use it as a weapon? I'd probably be holding onto the knife to protect myself. Exactly, if I was Darlie, my made up story would be,

I touched the knife because I thought this guy was still in the house and I needed a weapon to protect myself. But no, she's just like, I randomly up story would be, I touched the knife cause I thought this guy was still in the house and I needed a weapon to protect myself. But no, she's just like, I randomly picked it up for no reason and put it on the counter. I mean, I'm interested to hear what people think about it because in fairness to Darren, he could be thinking the same way you're thinking. He could be thinking, Hey, listen, I don't know if there's a guy out there. He made a fleet,

fled the property. I'm going to help my kids. That's my number one priority. If the guy runs back in, I'll deal with it then." And that might be a fair assessment. Most people might say, I agree with that. So let us know what you think about that. I just wonder, and I hope I'm never in this situation, I just wonder how I would react to that. And I don't think there's a right answer. Administering aid to your kids or going after this guy, I think both answers are right. I will say that. I think there's no wrong answer here for him. If that's what happened. One more thing, I just say all that to say this, we're focusing a lot on Darlie. Is there a world where Darren

didn't run out after this guy because he knew there wasn't a guy there? That's where I got, it took me a long time to get there, but that's why I bring this up So I also looked back into my notes and yes detective Waddell was the first person on the scene When he pulled up to the house Darren came walking out the front door told him hey my kids have been stabbed Waddell followed Darren inside and He was he said he saw Darley standing close. She did have a towel pressed to her neck. And then Waddell told Darren, apply pressure to your son's wounds. And that's when Darren got down on his hands and knees beside Devin. And Waddell said he couldn't tell whether Darren was doing CPR or trying

to slow the bleeding, but either way it wasn't working. So Darley's telling the story as in Darren gets down and starts applying and starts doing CPR or trying to slow the bleeding, but either way it wasn't working. So Darley's telling the story as in Darren gets down and starts applying and starts doing CPR to his son and Detective Waddell is like, no, when I pulled up, he walked out to meet me. And then I told him to start administering aid to his child. We're missing something in this story. That makes no sense to me.

How do you walk outside the house if there's a potential that there's a killer still inside and your kids are on the floor bleeding out? Of course we're missing something from the story, yeah. There's just something missing. We can move on because it could take forever, but actually before we move on, let's take our first break. We'll be right back because it's just not adding up to me.

Yeah, it boggles the mind. We're missing a big chunk of this story. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by IQBar, our exclusive snack sponsor. IQBar is the better-for-you, plant-protein-based snack made with brain-boosting nutrients to refuel, nourish, and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash. Now, if you've been with us for a while, you know that we're constantly reading, researching, filming, and trying not to forget to eat something halfway decent while we do

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That's weekly to 64,000 message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. Okay, we're back. I'm gonna continue on with what Darlie told the police in her official statement at the police station. She said quote, I remember telling Damon to hang on. Mommy was there. I looked over at Darren and saw the glass coffee table had been knocked halfway off and the flower arrangement had been knocked over. I then stood up and turned around and saw glass all over the kitchen floor. I tried to glance over to see if anything was out of place or if anything was missing. I took a few steps and opened the door and screamed for my neighbor Karen who lived across the street. I was still on the phone with

911 and I don't recall what all was said because everything was happening so fast." Darlie said she went back to Damon and by then she said he had stopped moving. She wrote, quote, The police walked through the door. The paramedics came and tried to work on the children. Darren was screaming, Who did this? Who did this? I started asking if my babies were dead. Darren was crying and said, Yes. After that, I just remember screaming and showing Darren my neck.

Darren took me out to the front of the house and then Darren ran upstairs to make sure the baby was okay. He showed me Drake was okay and then handed him to Karen." End quote. Darlie finished up her statement by writing quote, I remember them holding a towel on my neck and wrapping my arm and then they put me in the ambulance. Darren got in but they told him he needed to leave so they could take care of me. I remember getting to the hospital and then them telling me they were taking me to surgery. They took off my necklace and put me to sleep. I woke up minutes later.

The detectives were there asking me all kinds of questions." End quote. She's missing the whole chunk of when the police, the first responder, the detective Waddell showed up and asked her multiple times to apply aid and to put a towel on her bleeding child, who she says was not moving, but according to paramedics and first responders when they came in, he was. So once again, she's just kind of skipping over to,

I think the things that she feels safe talking about. It's like one minute she's on the phone with 911, the next minute she's being taken out the front and getting put into the ambulance, and all the stuff that happened in between is not being talked about. I think context matters so much here, and I said it last episode, I'll say it again,

please do not go look at those photos of those two beautiful boys. Do not go do it. They shouldn't even be out there. I don't even know how they're on the internet, but don't go look at it. Again, take our word for it. They're horrific.

And so I say that to say this. If that's what you're seeing, and those are your children, at no point am I looking over at my husband or my wife and saying, hey, but look at the injury on my neck. Look at my neck, yeah, I agree. I'm not trying to stay objective here, but I'm not doing that.

I don't even know that I have an injury at that point I'm not even really focused on it if you saw these pictures you would know what I'm talking about if that's what your is in Your view the last thing you're thinking about is yourself, but Again, I always try to be in the middle and ride that fence of like oh, it's not me everyone reacts differently But to me you have a hard job and you have a hard job of like, oh, it's not me, everyone reacts differently, but to me, it just... I know, you have a hard job, man, you have a hard job. I have a hard job.

I'm serious, in cases like this, your job is far harder than mine. Okay, okay, we can keep rolling, but context matters. So when you hear that, her written statement, and you compare it to the scene that she was in, when carrying out those actions, it's very difficult to process for me. After giving her written statement,

Darlie was asked to draw a diagram of the house and explain what happened while pointing to it. We're gonna put that diagram up on the screen so if you're watching on YouTube, you can follow along with us. So she drew the layout and then clarified something about the knife. She said she didn't see the knife

on the utility room floor right away. She saw it when she came back into the kitchen to turn on the light. Which goes against her Warole written statement. From the doorway near the family room, she looked over the kitchen island and spotted the knife on the floor. Later, a detective examined the scene himself using her statement to retrace her steps. He said he tried to look across the kitchen island from the light switch area but couldn't see the utility room floor. The island was too wide and he was taller than Darlie so if he couldn't see it she probably couldn't

either. So in this diagram she's got an X and it says about where I first saw a man but in her written statement he was over her. She's sleeping on the couch and he's at her feet walking away from her. Right. So she's on the couch and you can see the back of the couch is here she would have to Sit up and look over behind the couch towards the kitchen in order to have first seen him there None of this makes sense what Stephanie's describing here that they have the couches in like an L shape So she's on a couch and then there's another couch That's perpendicular to where she is

That what Stephanie's describing is in between her view of where she's marking off the man and where she's laying, this whole couch is in between them. So like imagine you're laying on a couch right now and there's another couch in front of you, you can't see much if you're laying down completely. So she, like Stephanie's saying, you would have to sit up. It just, it's not aligning. You'd have to sit up, you'd have to look kind of in an unnatural and and she said she saw him at her feet Walking away, so this is a lot further away if I'm looking at this diagram He's gonna be standing maybe between the couch and the end table the other couch that she's not going on and the end table

That's where he would be if if he was at her feet and she could see him walking away And by the way, she'd draw her body the position she was in, and her feet would be at that side exactly the way you're describing, and yet this guy is nowhere near her. He's on the other side of the second couch. Yeah. So it doesn't make a lot of sense. It's definitely contradictory to what she's saying.

And the whole knife thing, like in her written statement, she said she followed him, and she heard glass crunching, and that's when she saw the knife, and she picked it up. But now she's saying when she's drawing the diagram Oh actually, I first saw the knife after I went back into the kitchen and turned on the light and then I saw it over The kitchen island, but the police are saying no, I'm taller than her. I stood there I would not have been able to see the utility room from this from this location And if you go back to that diagram, I mean, I I don't have a diagram of the kitchen

But you can tell that there's a big like kitchen counter. It's called the kitchen bar. And that would be blocking, I assume, the utility room with the way that this is set up would be to the left of the kitchen, kind of where that demarcation is made. It would be incredibly difficult from any area standing at this kitchen bar to see inside the utility room. Yeah, I don't have an exact photo. I'm looking around here.

I'm trying to find it. And if we find it before the episode goes live, we'll put it in here. But I'm almost thinking that kitchen bar description in the diagram is maybe like a pony wall, like a half wall that separates the living room from the kitchen. If it's not, we'll correct it.

But that's what it looks like to me, because inside the kitchen, I believe there was kind of like an island as well So this is in this is in addition to that and almost looks like the entry There's an opening there Where if you're looking at the photo right now the diagram that she drew the exit the the offenders walking into the kitchen They have to walk around This like half wall that where you see in a lot of houses where it's like they call it a bar because you could put

Food or like appetizers on top of it of houses where it's like they call it a bar because you could put food or like Appetizers on top of it. Yeah It's raised. Yes, it's raised off the kitchen counter. Yes That's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking. All right, so before Darley left the interrogation room She was asked if she could think of anyone who might want to hurt her family. She said yes a Guy named Glenn who worked in the building next to Darren's shop. She didn't know him well. In fact, she didn't even know his last name and she'd only seen him once. According to Darley, the interaction happened about a year before the murders. Glenn had come into the shop and made a pass at her best friend and other employee Barbara.

Somehow Glenn's wife found out and called the shop to ask what happened and Darley told her the truth. That made Glenn angry and he threatened Darley over the phone. Darley said that a few weeks before the murders Glenn and his wife got divorced and he lost custody of their young son. Darley said Glenn blamed the divorce on her and Barbara because they hadn't lied to his wife about what he did. Which okay, why are you killing her kids? Why are you doing that? And why are you not killing Barbara? Who is the person that, you know, wouldn't you think that Barbara would end up dead in her house too if that was the case? If he blamed both Darlie and Barbara?

Yeah, it all goes back to what I said last episode where if you're going to kill the people that you're mad at or you are, or you're trying to send a message to, you're going to kill the adults. You're not going to kill the kids that you're mad at or you are or you're trying to send a message to You're gonna kill the adults. You're not gonna kill the kids and you're gonna stab the adults, but not in a way That would be lethal. What do you mean? Oh, you mean you're not gonna kill the kids in such a brutal manner and then go and stab the adults You're actually angry. I hope you can still get out of there without them identifying you if you're going inside their home You're going there to kill him. Yeah, you can't leave any witnesses. And I mean, according to Darley, she didn't even wake up till after she was stabbed. So he had plenty of opportunity to do it the proper way and take her life, but he didn't. Right.

And you're also going to probably go after Darren. If you're killing Darley and the kids downstairs, you're going to go upstairs. If you thought you killed Darley, maybe you made a mistake. You're going to go upstairs and finish the job. And even if we're talking about like, oh, maybe he wanted Darlie to stay alive so she could like feel the loss of her family the way that Glenn had to feel the loss of his family.

Well, Glenn lost his wife and his daughter. So wouldn't he have killed her kids and her husband and all three of her kids? If that's the message he's trying to send, why would he go in and do it half-assed when she was sleeping through the whole thing, you know? And speaking of sending a message, you don't know as the killer when you go in there

if the wife and kids are gonna be downstairs separately from the guy you're trying to send the message to. More than likely, I think everybody here would agree if there's a married couple living in this home, they're probably sleeping in the same bed. So to have this happen this way, that would have been unexpected for the offender. So again, just another set of circumstances

where they worked in favor of the killer, where Dana was no longer staying there, this was the first night she was no longer there, and Darlie happened to be downstairs away from Darren, so the offender could kill the kids. Easy access. Cut her up. And not have her husband wake up and try to

Easy and this person's able to get out of the house before Darren's able to intervene. Yeah, absolutely Now Darren's statement matched Darley's up to the point where he went to bed He wrote that before heading upstairs The boys had already fallen asleep in the family room Devin was lying on his back in front of the TV and Damon was asleep Between the couch and the coffee table. Why was he asleep between the couch and the coffee table? Like on the floor between the couch and the coffee table? That's weird, there's two big couches. Why is that happening?

Darren said he went upstairs and fell asleep not long after. He was then woken up by a noise and then he heard Darlie screaming, loud. He actually underlined the word loud in his written statement. She was yelling, Devin, oh my God, Devin. So Darren ran down the stairs as fast as he could and rushed into the family room.

He found Devin still lying in the same place that he'd seen him last, right? He said that Devin was lying on his back in front of the TV. Darren dropped to his knees to check to see if Devin was okay, and that's when he noticed the coffee table had been tipped over onto Devon. Darren got a closer look and saw two holes in Devon's chest with blood coming out.

He slapped Devon's face trying to get him to speak or open his eyes, but Devon didn't respond. So Darren started CPR and when he blew into Devon's mouth, air came out of his chest. He put his hand over Devon's chest and blew five or six more times. When that didn't work, he said he blew into one of the holes in Devin's chest. In the pictures, the coffee table does not appear to be turned over. And Darlie specifically said that she had noticed the coffee table was turned over and the flowers were spilled out. Remember that the vase with the flowers had been knocked over. But when the police get

there, that's not what they're seeing, if I'm correct. Yeah, I mean, you have two different accounts that the place was in disarray. The table was flipped over. Yes, you would expect to see some blood on it, especially if it was on top of one of the children. Could the EMTs have flipped the table back over and moved it to the side? I guess. I don't think they would have put the flowers back in the vase. That's for sure. So I don't know what to make of it. It would be speculative. I think we just have to take into account what the two parties said,

that the two parties being Darren and Darlie. And then you come to your own conclusions on it. I will say the fact that their stories aren't consistent does tell you that maybe it whatever happened they weren't working together on it because it seems like there's a lot of these inconsistencies in there to accounts of what happened you would expect that they would be more aligned if they had done all whatever happened together. So I don't know. I don't know where you Where you take this as far as the

vase in the table. I think it's important to discuss. I don't know if it leans one way or the other as far as Darley's guilt or innocence. It could just be a reporting or a clerical error as far as law enforcement where they move something aside or someone picked up the flowers or whatever after the fact and then photos or video was taken and you know it looks differently. What is your take on it as far as what do you think it means? Oh I mean for me I think that she's describing a scene that kind of like a scene you would see if what she described had happened like the coffee table is getting overturned the

face is toppling over but if the police arrived and they didn't see that, and remember, the police were like, yeah, there was very little signs that there was some intrusion or some violent struggle that Darlie's explaining, so if that's the case, I think she's almost describing a scene that she thinks would look like after an attack like this, but if that's not what the actual scene reflected, is she under some delusion,

is she just making stuff up at this point, does she not remember, and she's not what the actual scene reflected, is she under some delusion? Is she just making stuff up at this point? Does she not remember and she's filling in the blanks, which would be the worst thing to do, by the way, if you're in this situation, because granted, this is going to be a traumatic situation. Okay, let's say she's innocent, completely traumatic situation. She might actually have memory gaps, right? Your brain does that.

It protects you from things that will cause you great pain emotionally. So she could just have big memory gaps and she's sort of filling in those gaps with the way she thinks the scene may have looked under these circumstances or what she thinks she may have done under these circumstances. But that's the worst possible thing to do because now you're contradicting yourself and your actual statement is not matching what the police saw when they went in. That's kind of what I'm saying. Yeah, she's telling, yeah, but you would think you would want this crime scene to align

with what you're reporting. Yeah, I just checked it. Yeah, the coffee table is upright. The flowers, the vase wasn't turned over. Yeah. And there's no blood on the coffee table that would, because you'd think if it was on top of Devin's body and he'd been stabbed.

I mean, Darren said he had two holes in his chest that blood was coming from. If the table's on top of him, you'd think at least some of top of Devin's body and he'd been stabbed, I mean, Darren said he had two holes in his chest that blood was coming from. If the table was on top of him, you'd think at least some of that would have gotten on the table and that would sort of back the story up of where that table was located.

Even if Darren grabbed the table and put it back upright, I don't know why he's putting the vase and like the flowers upright, but even if he did that to get it off his child so he could do some lifesaving measures, you'd still expect to see some blood transfer onto that coffee table and we didn't. I agree. I'll say this just to preface it all, and I'm not trying to defend Darlie,

and I think I've said it before in other episodes we've done. When you're in a traumatic situation, there's things that you can remember that are completely untrue. I was involved in a police-involved shooting, and I remember one specific question that they asked me after the fact, and you would think it'd be very simple to answer They said hey where the lights on or off. I saw they were on they were definitely on Okay, they make a note. They don't say anything else after the fact. They tell me lights are off It was good. That's what I'm saying. You might have it was complete. It was a traumatic situation for you Yeah, and so the the truth of what happened was is that my partner had pulled out his flashlight and illuminated the room

But if you had given me a million dollars and said Derek, it's yes or no, right? Really simple in your head you're thinking I could see these things I could say it was not complete darkness So the lights must have been on and most people would think I would have a pretty good memory of what happened Right, and I got it wrong. So I say all that to say You could feel a certain way about Darlie and we have to evaluate each piece of information. For me, this is not like a smoking gun

where it's like, oh, she got this wrong, she's definitely guilty. Now in totality with a lot of other things that we're talking about, it does not look good, but if it was only this, if everything else aligned and you said to me, Derek, they said the table was flipped over and it wasn't, I wouldn't go,

Oh, yeah, she's guilty of a crime. So that's that's the only thing I say as we go forward. Okay. Now here's another thing. At that point, Darren saw Darley on the phone with 911. So he ran to Damon, who was lying in the hallway between the wall and the side of the couch that was parallel to the kitchen. Damon didn't have a pulse and Darren couldn't tell how badly he was hurt because Damon was still wearing a shirt. Right then, the first officer came through the door and Darren told him the boys had been stabbed while Darley said the intruder had gone out through the garage. Darren then ran upstairs, threw on his pants and checked on Drake who was still in his crib and unharmed. Darley says the first time Darren came down he had his jeans on. She specifically said that in her written statement.

Then he ran upstairs to check on the baby, brought that in her written statement. Then he ran upstairs to check on the baby, brought the baby back down and was like he's okay, see. But he had his jeans on when he ran down. We've talked about these jeans before and how it's like why it's weird that you'd be sleeping in your jeans. According to Darren, he wasn't. He had to run back upstairs and put his pants on. Darlie says she saw him come down in his jeans the first time. That's not what Darren says. Additionally, Darren is saying that he was in the house and the first officer came through the door

where the first officer testified that Darren walked out to meet him. Yeah, yeah, this goes along with what I've been kind of saying all episode, which is not everything's gonna align, people make mistakes, but if you're in the camp of Darren and Darlie conspired together to do this, I think that theory is losing steam the more and more we go. The more their stories diverge.

Their stories are complete contrasts. But they'd get them straight. And you would think that if this was a premeditated crime, they would have their story worked out pretty easily and they didn't. So to me, if you believe Darlie's involved, it's less and less likely that Darren is as well. On the other hand if you think Darren's involved it's less likely that Darlies in on it as well. So I think it's one of the other or neither of them. That's interesting. That's interesting. I actually want to make a note about that

because that made me think of something but we're not gonna talk about that now. If something else changes that I'll come to it. I mean it could also be a premeditated act where the two criminals just didn't Completely flush out what they were gonna say after the fact that's also possible I mean, I would I always say if they were smart we wouldn't catch them Yeah, these are not career criminals in our career criminals So maybe they didn't work out the details of what was gonna happen but as we continue to go we're in part now, there are cracks in the in the foundation of

Darren and Darley work together on this. So the next part of Darren's statement is difficult to make out But it seems like he wrote that he panicked and he didn't know what to do So he ran across the street to their neighbor Karen's house to get help She was a registered nurse and he hoped she might be able to save the boys Karen came over But by the time she got there the paramedics had already arrived. Darren said that's when he realized Darlie had been hurt too. He tried to ride with her to the hospital, but the paramedics told him to stay behind so he could talk with police and answer questions.

By the time Darlie and Darren were finished giving their statements, they were already two hours late to the boys' viewing. Their family was gathered at the funeral home, but they had to wait for the police to finish before anything could begin. Everyone stood around waiting for Darley and Darren to arrive. When they finally walked in, they approached the boys' shared casket. Darren later explained that Devon and Damon were buried together because, quote, they died together and they went to heaven together, end quote. After seeing her sons, Darley started screaming and her aunt Sherry later

testified, quote, it just tore our hearts out. We could feel her pain. End quote. So this, I think, is an appropriate reaction. Yes. At the wake, you're finally seeing the bodies. Maybe it's finally slammed into your head that this is true and you absolutely crash out. Makes complete sense. The following day, June 9th, Pastor David Rogers officiated the boys funeral. He later testified that Darley grieved and she cried and acted just like dozens of other people I've seen who have lost loved ones. From his perspective, she was reacting like any heartbroken mother. But a few things happened during the service that have left people with questions. Like the fact that Darren and Darley played Gangster's Paradise by Coolio during the

funeral because it was the boys favorite song. A lot of people couldn't understand why two young kids would be allowed to listen to that song, let alone have it played at their funeral. I object. That's a great song. I agree. I don't agree with you. You don't agree with the song? I agree. It's a good song, but I don't agree with you. You don't agree it's a great song? I agree. It's a good song, but I don't agree that they should have been listening to that song. And like, I get it, they really liked that song, but they didn't like any other songs that would be maybe a little bit more appropriate

to play at their funeral and their wake. Like they didn't like any other songs. It was just solely loyal to Gangster's Paradise. That's it. As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death This is not appropriate to play it there Even my mama thinks that my mind is gone, but I ain't never crossed a man that didn't know I got it Yeah, it's a great song now for kids, but to play their funeral man. That's weird. Maybe I just have a soft heart

I don't know I mean there are songs that I'm listening to with my kids in my car right now that I will tell you are not appropriate. And there's been multiple times where I gotta look at Payton and go, Payton, the one without the E, the one without the E, girl. And, you know, explicit, there's an E at the end of the song.

It's a clean E. But she's like, oh, my bad. I clicked the wrong one. So is it appropriate for at the funeral? I know I'm with you I wouldn't like there's not a song that even reminds you of them Come on, I wouldn't play it. But I mean to me it's like this is like nitpicking. Oh, come on. All right, Darley said Well, it's Darley Darley said what's the problem here? Okay, I got that Now, I know too. We could maybe we can sing it at the end in full

You guys don't want that. They'll never come back. The channel will be over Darley said that the kids didn't know the lyrics. They just like dancing to the beat. Yeah Come on the lyrics are everything in that song. It's like the most Come on, the lyrics are everything in that song. It's like the most inappropriate song. I'm 41 years old and the lyrics still don't mean anything to me. I don't know, like why aren't we just playing DMX then? I don't, that's weird.

Hey, are we gonna start blasting that out? I mean, cause that's another great artist. I know. Some great, some bangers. Some bangers, man. No lie. All right, we're, the train's off the tracks here. All right, so as strange as that was though, we can both agree strange even what we like it not not my choice

Not not what I would do. Yes It wasn't the most baffling part Darren put pocket knives in each of the boys pockets while they were inside the casket He said they'd always wanted knives, but they were too young so they never got them while they were alive And I'm sorry. I'm going to stand, this is just absolutely insane. These boys were stabbed to death. Giving them knives to take into the ground is one of the most tone deaf things I've ever heard of.

And not only that, it's not like, oh, these boys had these knives, these pocket knives, and they would always whittle with them, and they liked doing stuff with them, and they've had these for a while, and so these are their possessions. It's like, they never did have knives because they were too young,

so now I thought they could have them. They were stabbed to death brutally, man. What are you talking about? Yeah, that's where I draw the line. Why didn't you just put Glocks on their chest? This is insane. Okay. Like what's wrong with these people?

I can see the song putting knives in the pockets of two victims that were stabbed to death when they never had knives before. Your children. Okay, you lost me. I was trying, Darren. Darlie, I was trying. Gangster's Paradise, the song, you wanna play it one time?

Okay, fine. It's an inside thing between you and your family. Putting knives in their pockets when they were both stabbed to death, brutally. You lost me. It's literally almost like a, I don't know, like it feels like a threat, like another way to kind of like continue victimizing them even in death.

And it's very, very disturbing. I don't know if that was the intent, but it definitely is tone deaf. You said it right, it just doesn't make sense. I don't think anyone would go, yeah, that's a good idea. Do that. I would have been, I would have just been standing there like, you know, Coolio's blasting blasting the knives are going in the pockets I would have been

like well who are who are they what is happening here is this a joke where's Ashton Kutcher about to jump out and tell me I'm being punk yeah this is ludicrous so let's take a quick break and then we're gonna come back and talk about the day after the funeral. Fresh air sunshine and good food that's what Springs all about right and world. Fresh air, sunshine, and good food. That's what spring's all about, right? And honestly, with my schedule being what it is, I need meals that don't just taste

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The day after the funeral was June 10th. Darlie met with the police again. Investigators photographed her injuries along with her feet so they could compare them to the bloody footprints found at the scene near the broken glass. There was no injuries to her feet, even though she said she was walking on broken glass. But there was an extremely large bruise on her right arm stretching from her armpit to her wrist that no one had seen before. According to every member of the hospital staff, that bruise was not there while Darlie was in the hospital.

Not on June 6th, not on June 7th, or on June 8th when she was discharged. No swelling, no redness, no discoloration, nothing to suggest a bruise was forming. And there wasn't any medical explanation either because Darlie didn't have any IVs in her right arm. And it's not like the bruise could have developed naturally after she left the hospital. Dr. Patrick Dillon later testified that this kind of bruising would have shown up within 24 hours of the injury, meaning they absolutely would have seen it in the hospital on the 7th. Another doctor, Alejandro Santos,

reviewed the photos taken on June 10th, and he said the bruising appeared to be 24 to 48 hours old, meaning whatever caused that injury happened after she was released. Staff at the hospital said they had noted a fresh bruise on Darlie's left wrist during her stay, and by June 10th, when the photos were taken at the police station,

that bruise was already turning yellow and green Which is what bruises do as time passes So if the large bruise on her right arm had been caused at the same time It should have been healing the same way, but it wasn't so that's interesting. Yeah, these bruises are we brought up last episode I just I'm not an ME. I'm not a doctor. I I'm trouble processing them as far as what they mean, what they don't mean. They're significant, there's something that has to be talked about, but they're perplexing to me to say the least. I'm having trouble coming up with a reasonable explanation as to why she would have those injuries, even if she was attacked. It's not aligning to me.

Now the only people who said they saw the massive bruise while Darley was in the hospital Or her friends and family several of them testified at trial that they remembered seeing it But the prosecution believed their memories were influenced you see during the trial Witnesses weren't allowed to sit in the courtroom until after they testified but Darren's aunt Sandy didn't testify So she sat in the courtroom every day taking notes according to prosecutors testify, so she sat in the courtroom every day taking notes. According to prosecutors, Sandy shared these notes with witnesses who hadn't testified yet, essentially coaching them on what had already been said in court. And that's not speculation. One of the people who testified about seeing the bruise admitted on the stand that he knew Sandy had been taking

notes and that he was told what was going on. And things were only going to get more questionable. Police continued monitoring the routiers and learned that a graveside prayer service was being planned for June 14th. This would have been Devin's seventh birthday. After the service, the family planned to hold a birthday party for him. According to Darley's Aunt Sherry, Devin had been looking forward to his party before he was killed and the family wanted to honor that.

She later testified, quote, We just wanted to make the day special to honor Devin because he was looking forward to his birthday so much and they had already so much prepared for it. End quote. When investigators heard about the prayer service and birthday party, they made a decision and placed a hidden microphone in a bush about 10 to 15 feet away from the grave site. They didn't have a warrant and they didn't have the family's consent, but they did have permission from the cemetery owner so they thought it was fine. One detective later testified that they

planted the microphone in case someone went up there and made a confession about what had happened. And as you can imagine, this unwarranted microphone would become a huge deal at trial. Yeah, I mean, as it would. Yeah. You know, that's I understand wanting to get the truth, but you got to do things the right way. Isn't Texas a two party, one party state, though? Yes.

And it's something where is it technically OK? Yes. And you have to you got to stay in that gray area. I get it. I mean, listen, is it something that I would do? I'm not going to sit here and lie and say I wouldn't. I mean, I was one of the first people to use a drone during my narcotics operations. And I actually had the chief say to me, don't do that anymore.

The insurance company for the police department won't cover it. If it drops out of the sky and hits someone or something That's gonna be a problem. And then also people at the Attorney General's office were like hey We haven't done this before and you're not certified to care, you know fly that drone and all these different things So I have definitely stretched The capabilities in order to get the truth to try to find answers So for me, I'm not gonna sit here and be a hypocrite because my buddies in law enforcement would say,

you would definitely do something like this, but it is a fine line. And I'm sure there are people who are listening right now who are gonna say, that's the wrong way to do it. It's an illegal search and seizure. It's a violation of their rights, their constitutional rights. Then there are gonna be people who say, listen, if they're involved in a crime and it's a one party state, then you know what, fair game.

Well, it's tough because one party state still means that at least one of the persons aware of it in the conversation, at least one, at least one person. But law enforcement wouldn't technically be correct of the conversation. However, they're in a public place and we all know that parties have a reasonable expectation of privacy, but if you're recording a conversation in a public place, there's no expectation to privacy and they got permission from the people who owned the, you know, the cemetery. So it's kind of like a gray area because maybe you would think you could argue that they would expect to have an expectation of privacy at a graveside

prayer session, but you're still in a public place like anybody could have walked by and recorded them at any time There's a difference between Legally and ethically right there's a difference and from what you're describing, especially if they got permission from the property owner It's fair game. Yeah. Now, is it distasteful maybe some could argue because it's what we're talking about here? Sure. But I think at that point, detectives are saying the reason we're at this grave site may be because of one of the people here.

We need to do those people justice, the people that can no longer speak for themselves. And if that means going to this length, that's what we have to do. So my final take on it, and I know this won't be a shocker to most of you, it's fair game. It's fair game. I agree with you. And it's not like, you know, they're not, they're not, you know, trying to set her up for anything. They're just saying, if someone says something, we will know because they already obviously suspect her, right? They suspect her already, or they wouldn't be doing this. So it's like, you know, two little boys are dead here. We want to get to the bottom of it.

So if something happens to be said, then so be it. But if not, then no harm, no foul. No harm, no foul. And listen, they're obviously looking at certain people. But if somebody else came up and said something, like, just know that your mom did this to you or whatever, it's something that someone they're not expecting. They would have used that as well.

So it's, it covers a lot of bases. And I would say there are people out there where we're very critical of law enforcement and not being enthusiastic enough to solve these cases and not thinking outside the box where we would say, Hey, do your job, figure out what happened. Nobody can say that the police officers at this point aren't exhausting all resources and thinking outside the box to find out what happened to Damon and Devin. So let's talk about what happened on June 14th

when 12 people gathered at the cemetery for the service and celebration. Devin's friends brought homemade cards and some people came with balloons. Darlie's Aunt Sherry later said, quote, we just gathered around and we wished him a happy birthday and sang happy birthday to him and we just held hands and prayed, end quote.

But that's not all that happened. And we know this because Darlie invited the media to the service and everything was caught on camera. As the cameras were rolling, Darla's sister, Dana, pulled out cans of silly string. Darlie took one and video footage captured her smiling and spraying silly string onto the boys' graves as she sang happy birthday.

So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see the video playing on the screen now. And when that footage aired, the public was stunned. Many felt it didn't look like the behavior of a grieving mother. And I kind of would, if this was a year, if this was a year after, and they were celebrating the birthday a year later,

I could kind of see enough time passing where you've accepted it, you're not in shock anymore, this loss isn't so fresh and so new, and maybe something like this wouldn't raise as many eyebrows, but literally, within just a week and a half of losing your children in such a horrendous, brutal way, I don't know if I could be standing and spraying silly string on their graves and smiling and laughing.

I don't know if this is something I could have done at this point yet. I don't know if I would have been ready emotionally and mentally to take part in something like this. Maybe on the year anniversary, like his birthday the next year maybe, but I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, and actually for anybody who wants to hear the audio of that clip We'll play it right now. It will be right back Happy birthday to you. Wow!

Love you, Devin and Damon. Yeah, so, you know, after watching it, I don't like it. She's smiling, silly string on the balloons. I'm with you. Yeah. It just feels like too soon, I think. Does it scream killer? I would argue that if you want to give the perception that you're mourning and you're

really broken up about this, you wouldn't do this. If you're in the Darley camp that she's innocent, this doesn't look good optically to most people. So the fact that you're doing it, it'd be the opposite of what I would think you would do if you were at least trying to give the perception that you were really hurting over this. Yeah, because it's not even like, okay, my son was terminally ill and we've kind of been expecting this for two years and so this is a celebration of his life. He was murdered in cold blood.

Both your sons were murdered in cold blood while you slept on the couch nearby. This is like, and the person still hasn't been caught, allegedly, the person who did this. So this is not a celebration time. This is a mourning time, letting the police do their work, figure out who did this, get some answers, get some conclusion, get some conclusion.

And then maybe a year later, yeah, if you want to do the silly string of the balloons, whatever. But it just feels weird. The other thing I'll say just in line with what I was saying earlier, we're talking about Damon and Devin and how they were killed. And then you have the third victim here, Darlie, less than a week. She's up and moving. So anybody who's saying these injuries were super significant, I'm sure she's got some cuts and bruises on

her and all that stuff, but she's up and moving and the two other people are in the ground. So again, just that polarity of where it was for them and where it is for her. Very different. Yeah, absolutely. So after the silly string cans were empty, Darren and Darlie were both interviewed by the media, which once again, this is weird. It's so soon after this happens. I'm not talking to anybody.

I'm letting the police do their jobs and figure out who did this. It's not like the kids are missing and you're trying to raise awareness. You sit there and be quiet and mourn and heal while the police figure out who did this to your kids. So for the first four and a half minutes they shared memories about Devin and Damon. Then the reporter asked, quote, let me ask you, why the confetti?

Why the balloons? Why the happy birthday song? End quote. And here's what Darlie said in response. Well, because even though we're sad because Deon and Damon aren't here, we try to hang on to what we can to keep, to get us through these times. And if you knew Devon and Damon, you would know that they're up in heaven and they're up there having the biggest birthday party that we could ever imagine.

And they wouldn't want us to be down here being sad, even though our hearts are breaking. I know that Devon and Damon would want us to be happy. They wouldn't want us to be crying, and they wouldn't want us to not to be happy. They would want us to celebrate if we were with them. And in a way, they are with us, because they will always be with us no matter what we're doing no matter what we're thinking they'll always be a part of all of us and not just Darren and I but

they've you know they touched a lot of people. So first off I can see the cut on her neck that's you can see that there it's a significant cut doesn't look like there's any stitches or anything in it so that does align with being more superficial I Would also want to know I know this might be reversed or mirrored because of the camera But the fact that it's in that downward angle could suggest that it was done. It was self-inflicted, right? I mean just that angle I would like to know if she was left or right-handed But either even if she wasn't even if it was in the opposite side it could still and she went up

Yeah, yeah, I could still it could side, it could still. And she went up, yeah. Yeah, it could still align. It could still align. It still makes sense that she did it. It's not a straight cut, like someone was standing above you. Right, standing above her, which is not in line with what the offender did to the two other victims, right, in this case, but that's, I've said it like 17 times. And then as far as her just reaction,

I'm gonna keep falling back to the thing I always say. If she wasn't someone being considered for these two murders at this point, none of us would have a problem with this. We would say, ah, you know, not our thing, but everyone handles grief differently. Maybe not what we would do, but it's clear. You know, if the kids had been struck by a vehicle, right,

whatever it might be, you and I might not do that, but we wouldn't be sitting here looking at it the way we are and being really judgmental over it. Or maybe you would be. She just doesn't seem sad at all. And she's like, they wouldn't want us to be sad. And it's like, well, it doesn't matter what they would want. You feel what you feel.

And you'd be sad. If you loved them and you missed them, you would still be sad, especially this this soon after if these two children were killed Another way where it was clear. She wasn't involved I would still think it's weird, but would you be judging it the way we're talking about it right now? No, you'd be like that's whatever you'd be indifferent about it. You'd be like not what I would do I would expect more but you wouldn't be Dissecting it as much as you are. Is that fair to say maybe I don't know so for me

Yes, considering the context of everything we have, she's got to know people are going to be looking at her under a microscope. And she just seems like she doesn't really care that much. There's like no self-awareness at all. She kind of seems a little like not super smart, I'm going to be honest. She doesn't seem like the smartest person in the world. She's kind of like smiling and she's laughing

like a kid came up to her and she's like, ha ha ha, laughing and she's like, they're in heaven now and they're having the biggest birthday party ever. And it's like, maybe this is how she comforts herself. Maybe this is a form of denial. I don't know, but it's still weird. Yeah, she could still be going

through the stages of grief. If I'm the investigator, the lead detective watching this, yeah, I'm making notes, but this isn't something where I'm saying, yeah, she definitely did it because of the way she's reacting in this video. I'm more focusing on the evidence at the crime scene and the contradictions in her statements, not her reaction after the fact or how she's handling grief. Well, Darley and Darren were asked how they felt when they thought about the man who did this. Oh, we can't get into that.

No, I don't mean, don't tell me. The anger? The emotion, what you feel. What is it, when you think about what happened? We get very sad. We cry a lot. We get sick. We get very angry.

We get very angry because this person is still out there and he's doing whatever he wants to do and and we're just like in a time warp. It's like we're walking in limbo. We don't know whether we're coming or going, you know, and he's free. He's free to do whatever he wants, But I know that he's not going to be free for long, and I feel it. I feel the support and the hard work that these detectives and policemen are putting into this is incredible. It's just, it's beyond the call. I mean, you...

They're doing some high tech stuff on this investigation, stuff that I wouldn't believe in had it not been seen in the movies. They're taking absolutely no, it's at all expense. I mean they're doing the best job that they possibly can. They are going to find this person. They are going to find it. We're having prayer groups everywhere. Everybody is praying. I said God's hotline must be

You must be swamped because everybody everywhere is praying and we can feel it So honestly, I don't have a huge problem with anything that they said there at all So then darlin was that she was right. They were working hard. Yeah, they were Working hard Darlieley you ain't wrong and Darren's like they've got all sorts of like you know scientific like technological things I've never even seen on TV it's almost like god damn it they have they have all this like tech that we didn't even know they could do so then Darley was asked what she remembered feeling that night

fear and pain but you know even when I was, what had happened to me, I didn't feel anything because I was in shock. But I wasn't thinking about me. All I was thinking about was trying to save the babies. I mean Darren and I tried to save the babies, but it was too late and the babies were gone. But we tried. We tried and we have to live with that forever. We have to live with what we saw, what we saw in their eyes.

Nobody can ever imagine. And it happened so fast that not anybody could have done anything about trying to save them any faster than what I could. I mean, you just, you know, you keep going over it and you what if it and you what if I done this and you what if you done this. But if you've never lived in fear, then you'll never think of those things. This is weird, I think.

This is definitely weird. I think it's, it kind of pissed me off when she was like, I wasn't even thinking about myself. My only concern was helping my boys and say, like we know that that's not true. We know you got a rag for your own neck and you never did anything for your kids even when you were instructed to and asked to several times by a police officer. And then even Darren when he's like you know you think there could there was nothing that could have saved them like besides

what I did. He even says besides what I did. He doesn't say besides what we did. So it's almost like he's acknowledging that she didn't do shit to help those kids and And yeah, obviously you could tell they are aware that people are are you know talking about them? They go on in this clip to talk about oh Whatever people you know have to say and the gossip like we're not paying attention to that like they're evil You know they don't understand you haven't been in our shoes, et cetera, et cetera. But it's like, yeah, in your shoes though, I would have tried to save my kids.

Like I haven't been in your shoes, but in your shoes I would have, I do believe 100 million percent I would have tried to save my kids and I would have listened to the police and administered aid to them. But you didn't do that and we know you didn't do that. And they don't know that we know that, right?

Because this is a long time ago. And the police haven't released anything yet. But so they're talking as if the public's never going to know that she was asked multiple times to get a towel and save her son or try to save her son and she didn't. They don't know that we're gonna know that. But we do know that. And so it's a little awkward now.

Overall, just to kind of read on top of what you just said, this is June 14th this all happened on the night of June 6th, maybe June 7 in the morning, right and Why are we doing an interview Why is it missing? You're not trying to raise awareness. It doesn't it doesn't Just doesn't make sense to me even Darren. I don't like Darren's reaction and his demeanor in this video I don't either I just personally I know we're focusing on Darlia Lappa they seem unfazed man. Yeah, it seems like they're talking about a car that was stolen

They seem unfazed and then her moment of crying. I didn't think sounded who genuine Yeah, I mean, yeah, so that's just it's just our opinion So after that the reporter brought up rumors that Darley had killed her sons and Darley responded quote We don't want to get into that part. Unfortunately, gossip is the biggest evil in the world and unfortunately there's nothing you can do to stop it and we're not going to make an issue out of this because anybody that knows us knows how we were, how we lived. You know they knew the story and we don't have to explain ourselves to anybody, end quote. When asked what they would say to the person who did this, both Darlie and Darren responded.

I think he's a coward. I think he's a coward because he went after two... He went after something that was so innocent that couldn't fight back and then he tried to come to me. But he had to go to them first. And to me that is such a cowardness. Well it's an animal that goes after a weak sheep that is asleep, is completely lifeless, and attacks the weakest person in the room first to be able to get off on whatever he was thinking he was going to accomplish. I mean, I kept hoping and praying that this guy had stolen something out of my house, that he picked me and my family because I had more than some, or had more than this

person. That way I could, in my heart, think that we're living large is the reason why we got targeted. But now you don't know why. Now we don't know why. Now we don't know why. Now we know that this is a sick individual that took absolutely nothing from our house but took the two most important things that were important to us away from us. That's the part that we don't understand.

That's the part that we may never understand until we... But our goal now in our life is to live our lives the way that God wants us to so that we can be with our boys again. And they'll still be five and they'll still be seven and they'll still be playing and fighting. Yeah, that's weird, especially his awkward laugh at the end was super strange. I just, I don't know. He's like, I was really hoping somebody had broken in because I have more than others, but now it's like, I don't know he's like I I was really hoping somebody had had broken in because I have more than others But now it's like I don't know why they live in large. Yeah, cuz I'm living large, you know And now I don't know why they did it and it's like it's like would that have made you feel better if they?

They'd broken into steal something and then killed your kids would that have made it better. I don't know like Just just very strange. It all seems strange to strange to me considering the proximity of when this all occurred It's very light-hearted for such a short period of time But way down in the comments below but way in down in the comments below Let us know what you guys think are we just completely off on this one? Maybe we are are we being insensitive are we? Not taking into consideration that everybody Processes trauma differently? Maybe.

I don't know. I mean, they're also super religious, so there might be... There's something there. They seem to be super religious, so there might be some comfort in that, and that's what they're telling themselves to keep moving on. Either way, I think it's weird, but on its own, it's not weird, in compilation with everything else that we know, weird. So after the graveside gathering, the investigation into the Routiers kept moving forward. Police continued interviewing people who knew the couple

and they also began reviewing more evidence from inside the house, including Darley's diary. Through those interviews and records, investigators learned more about the couple's financial issues and the tension in their marriage. They also learned that after giving birth to Drake in October of 1995 Darley struggled with postpartum depression She was also deeply unhappy with how she looked Multiple people said Darley wanted to lose around 12 to 15 pounds But after having her third child she couldn't drop the weight as fast as she wanted This bothered her in a major way as her appearance was very important to her

wanted. This bothered her in a major way as her appearance was very important to her. Darlie was so desperate to get back into her pre-baby body that in March of 1996, she stopped breastfeeding Drake and started taking two prescription diet pills, Fasten and Pondemon. Over the next two months, she started feeling increasingly emotional. In April and May, she told friends she had been feeling moody and said she had a few really rough days. She was crying a lot, and on May 3rd, it all came to a head. That's when Darlie started writing a suicide note in her journal. It began, Dear Devin, Damon, and Drake,

I hope that one day you will forgive me for what I am about to do. My life has been such a hard fight for a long time, and I just cannot find the strength to keep fighting anymore. I love you three more than anything else in this world. I don't want you to see a miserable person every time you look at me. Your dad loves you all very much and I know in my heart he will take care of my babies. Please do not hate me or think in any way that this is your fault. It's just that I." End quote. Because the note came to an abrupt end. According to Darlie, she said she felt silly while writing the note, so she stopped and

called Darren at work. She asked him to come home, and when he got there, he found her lying on their bed, crying and writing in her journal. Darren said he never did read the note, since it was private, and he didn't think she was serious about taking her own life. If he thought she was serious, he would have gotten her help. He said they, quote, had a good, long, hard cry, and then he went back to work. Darren said the next day was a whole new day and everything felt fine again.

Darlie got her first period in over a year, and according to Darren, she was back to being herself. And this is very common for postpartum depression. I've been through it. So many women have been through it. Your emotions are all over the place. You look in the mirror, you're like, I don't even know who I'm looking at. Like, how did I get here?

Who am I? Who are these people around me? Your emotions are all over the place. And so, yeah, someday you can be crying and writing in your journal, and the next, everything could be absolutely fine. And this was also the 90s, postpartum depression. It was just not that well known or well studied or well understood.

Well listen, the real thing and it happens to a lot of people, like you said, there's nothing wrong with it. But from my perspective, as we're looking into the journal entries and we can see how low she really was to the point where she was considering taking her own life. And that is as low as you get. And so when you're in that mindset, you know at least a certain level of where they are at that point, what's crossing their minds,

the thoughts that are going through their head. And so when you're looking back at the crime itself, and you're saying as a detective, this is not adding up, this is not adding up. It doesn't, the whole offender theory, the evidence isn't supporting it. And then you look at the journal entries, and you see that at least one of the people

who were in that house were considering taking their own life at a point not too far before this. That is significant. Because what other thoughts were they having that they weren't writing in the journal? That's the question you have to ask.

So we're going to take our last break, and then we'll be right back to finish the rest of the episode. Okay, real talk. If you're still using retinol in the summer without a solid plan to protect your skin, it's time to rethink your routine. Now, I've been using OneSkin's OS-1 face moisturizer lately, and it's honestly one of the smartest skincare swaps I've made. What's wild is that in lab studies, OS1 face boosted collagen production

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That was great. Listen one skin is the world's first skin longevity company by focusing on the cellular aspects of aging Once can keep your skin looking and acting younger for longer for a limited time You can try one skin with 15% off using code crime weekly at one skin co one skin with 15% off using code crime weekly at one skin.co. That's 15% off at one skin.co with code crime weekly. After your purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show by telling them that we sent you give your skin the scientifically proven gentle care it deserves with one skin. So we've talked about Darley's friend Barbara before. This is her best friend. She worked

at Darren's company. She turned down this Glenn person, allegedly. But Darley's best friend Barbara also heard about the suicide note. According to Barbara, though, she heard a different story. Barbara said Darley told her she wanted to take her own life because sometimes she gets to feel really strange and she doesn't understand why. Things were getting to her. Sometimes she felt like everybody expected too much of her and sometimes she just feels like she wants to end it all. Now Darlie told Barbara she'd taken pills out of the wrappers and was planning to take them, but when Darren walked in she shoved everything

under the bed to hide it. Then their dog dragged the rappers back out and that's how Darren found out she was going to take her own life. Barbara encouraged her to get help, to talk to a counselor, or consider medication. Darlie said she might go, but it doesn't appear that she ever followed through with getting help. Which also, once again, makes complete sense. When you're in that state, it's pretty much impossible to seek help on your own because you don't even know which way is up. You know, you're definitely not taking care of yourself because you have this almost resentment towards yourself. You don't

know why you can't get it right. You don't know why you can't be the perfect mother and the perfect wife anymore. And it's very confusing. And it does seem a little strange that she told her friend Barbara that Darren came in and then he Found the pills which is how he knew she was planning to do that when in Darren's words He just came home and you know She had told him later that she was planning to do this and they had a good cry together So does Darley have a tendency of being kind of a compulsive liar and when she retells stories the details aren't always the same Is this a part of her personality?

Yeah, that's a great question, too. Through the investigation into the murders of Damon and Devon, multiple people were asked what life was like inside the Routier home in the days leading up to June 6th. Some said the couple seemed totally normal, but one person's statement raised more questions than answers. Detectives spoke with a woman named Helena, who was Darley's housekeeper and the mother of her best friend Barbara. Helena said that on June 5th, she was dropped off at the Routier's house. When she walked in, she saw Darley and her babysitter, Rebecca, but she didn't see baby Drake, so Helena asked where he was, and Rebecca pointed towards Darley's lap. Helena looked up and saw that Darley was holding what looked like a bundled up blanket,

but it was really baby Drake with his face completely covered. Helena was worried for Drake, so she told Darlie to give her the baby, but Darlie didn't move. Helena asked again, and Darlie told her that Drake liked to be held that way. Helena said, quote, please give me the baby, and this time Darlie handed him over and went upstairs. Helena gently unwrapped the blanket from Drake's face and that's when she realized the baby had been fully covered. She said his face was quote, very perspired, very red, and the lips were light blue,

end quote. Drake started catching his breath and then began crying and Helena held him until he calmed down. Not the best scenario to have somebody see days before your children end up stabbed to death. Halina is not gonna lie to us. She has no reason to. And this is not a normal story.

This is not something that you hear often. You don't hear about people who are there assisting you babysitters having to potentially save the life of a baby from their own parent right in front of them and Like you just said considering the how close this was to what ends up happening Very concerning but just this in and of itself could result in law enforcement taking your kid away from you So this is this is troubling so now you have the consideration of suicide and also an

Example from an outside party who has no reason to lie Witnessing a situation where Drake could have been killed Accidentally intentionally you come to your own conclusion, but either way Drake was in a lot of trouble based on what Helena observed So yeah, this is this is not good And it seems like also the babysitter Rebecca, because Helena's the cleaning lady, the babysitter Rebecca doesn't seem to have an issue with that,

because that same day Helena, she said she had to intervene more than once to protect Drake from getting hurt. Oh, you're saying Helena's not even the babysitter, she's the cleaning lady? She's the cleaning lady, yeah. Wow. Wow. And she's the mother of Darlie's best friend.

So at one point she said he almost hit his head on the glass coffee table. Helena caught him just in time while Darlie and Rebecca laughed. Rebecca's the babysitter. Yeah. Another time Drake almost fell out of his high chair and again Helena caught him before he hit the floor. Helena told investigators about the rest of the day

which she spent doing laundry, dusting and vacuuming. She said she left the vacuum in the kitchen between the rind rack and the pantry. Then at one point, Darlie showed Helena some jewelry and said she needed $10,000. After looking at the pieces, they left them sitting out on the kitchen counter. Now, it's kind of interesting that she says $10,000.

Yeah, I know where you're going. And that's exactly the amount of the two life insurance policies together. What did she need the $10,000. Yep, I know where you're going. And that's exactly the amount of the two life insurance policies together. What did she need the $10,000 for? Why that amount? Was she in trouble? What's going on? So I'm not even focusing on the amount.

And as I'm writing this down, there's a couple things. I'm looking at a woman who is suicidal and, at minimum, negligent with the youngest child, right? Because there's a couple incidents in there with the high chair and the thing. The glass copy table, yeah. It's just, it's negligent, right? But the incident that I'm focusing on

is the blanket being wrapped over Drake's face. And then on top of that, regardless of the actual amount, although the amount is significant when we consider the insurance policies, at minimum, what we can take away from that conversation is that in Darlie's mind, there are financial problems. And she's in need of money. How much money in totality, we don't know,

but at least she's saying $10,000 according to Helena. And I have to assume, although I don't know how much information Helena had, she was probably not aware that there was a life insurance policy on the two children. Oh yeah, why would she be? In those amounts. All right.

It was 5,000 per child, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So more than likely she was not aware of that. So her throwing out this number that she was told by Darlie is extremely interesting in the totality of the investigation because this is information that law enforcement now has but Helena wouldn't have. And what does that make you think of? What other cases that make you think of?

John Benet Ramsey, where the ransom note was the exact amount that John Ramsey had gotten as a bonus from work, the exact amount. And who would know that besides members of the family, specifically John and Patsy would know or someone close to them. But I mean, I don't even know if you go bragging about your bonus at work to random people Especially when it's I gotta tell you based on based on the conversations that Darley and and Darren were having with that interview I don't think they kept much in house

I think they were you know, you talked in the earlier parts of this about them being you know Kind of showy and stuff like that. Maybe a little braggadocious, right? That's definitely the case to me I mean you're telling an interviewer for a news network a week after your kids were killed that you were living large? Imagine the conversations they were having with friends and family. Yeah, but they're not gonna tell the friends and family

they have $5,000 life insurance policies on their children. I just think they're just talking in general about a lot of stuff, anything that involves money. They're very, you know those people I'm talking about? Of course, everything. Oh, that's a nice boat you have. Yeah, I paid, you know, this amount for. Oh, this is a really nice coffee table. Well, it better be for four grand.

Those people, you know, I'm talking about. Yeah, I do. That that's these people right here. Yeah, it does seem like that. So Barbara, who is Darley's best friend, she arrived around 515 p.m. to pick up her mom, who's Helena, the cleaning lady. And she said Darley's best friend, she arrived around 5 15 p.m. to pick up her mom who's Helena, the cleaning lady, and she said Darley seemed upset. She was pacing between the kitchen and family room, holding something in her hand, though Barbara couldn't tell what it was. The house felt so tense that Barbara and Helena left within 30 minutes, and as they were leaving,

they noticed a black sports car. It stopped briefly, someone got inside, and then it sped off fast enough to scare Halina. While police were gathering witness statements, like Halina and Barbara's, they were also reviewing DNA results and forensic tests from the scene. And spoiler alert, the evidence did not back up Darlie's version of events. Let's start in the family room, where investigators found a bloody impression in the carpet that resembled the outline of a knife about 18 inches away from where Devon's body was found. An analyst determined that the blood was concentrated towards the tip, which indicated that the person holding it was also bleeding. The blood

in that outline belonged to both Darley and Damon, which meant one of them had likely been holding the knife and I somehow doubt it was the five-year-old. So that's interesting. The blood in that impression by Damon belonged to both him and Darley and based on the blood on the tip, determining that it was concentrated, which indicated that the person holding it was also bleeding, it kind of sounds like Darley was holding the knife over her son. And why? If you remember, Darley had claimed she only picked up the knife and placed it on the kitchen counter. She never mentioned having it in the living room, let alone putting it on the carpet. From the law enforcement standpoint, this detail mattered. They believed that an intruder

wouldn't have paused to set the knife down, disarming himself after stabbing Darley. It made more sense, they said, that Darley put it down after cutting herself. And speaking of the murder weapon, four areas of blood on the knife were tested. Two contained Darley's blood, one had Damon's, and one was a mixture of both. Investigators also found one of Darren's head hairs on the blade. Now that could have just happened, by the way, when the knife was set down on the carpet. That does not mean anything. The knife was on a carpet. We know carpets hold everything.

Yeah, it's his house. It's his house. We would expect his hair to be all over that place. It's gonna be everywhere. As gross as it sounds, your hair is all over our houses. I don't care if you just vacuumed, by the way. It's everywhere. And somebody's gonna say,

oh, Helena was there, she vacuumed. It doesn't matter. I wanna get all the carpets out of my house because of this exact thing. They hold everything, dust, hair, allergens. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. So it could've just happened when the knife was sat down on the carpet.

But to more about the impression, I'm not gonna elaborate too much because I completely agree with the assessment of law enforcement. There's nothing I disagree with. I wouldn't expect the offender to put the knife down. If they did this, this was very quick. It was one, two, three.

They're not putting the knife down and sitting over one of their victims before moving out. It's not happening. I agree with everything they said there. It all makes sense. Not because I want it to be the case, but that's what makes the most sense. Well, on the sliding glass door in the family room,

investigators lifted one latent fingerprint, which was too partial to identify. They also found two latent prints on the glass coffee table. We talked about that last episode. But neither of those was complete enough to make a match. Later, the prosecution would say both appeared to be consistent with a child. There was also blood on the vacuum cleaner,

on the handle, on the body, and in droplets on the surface. Testing showed that Darley's blood had dripped onto it while it was upright and again after it had been tipped over. On the kitchen floor, there were multiple roll marks from the vacuum cleaner wheels. These marks were made through Darley's blood, and the pattern of the marks showed that the vacuum had been picked up and moved, then rolled again, suggesting it had been repositioned on purpose. Although Darley told police she chased the man through the kitchen, consultant James

Cron found no high-velocity spatter there. None of the blood in the kitchen showed signs of someone running or moving quickly through the space. Instead, investigators found a large amount of Darley's blood in front of the sink. They believed she had stood there for a significant amount of time and possibly used that moment to injure herself. They also found bloody footprints in the kitchen that matched Darley's. There was broken glass near and on top of the prints, but Darley had no injuries on

the bottom of her feet. What does that tell you? The glass was broken afterwards. After she ran through the kitchen with blood on her feet. What does that tell you? The glass was broken afterwards. After she ran through the kitchen with blood on her feet, but that's not what she told the police because in her statement she said when she pursued the offender she could hear broken glass crunching under their feet. Yeah she would she and she would have she would have some injuries on her feet if that happened. We've all been there. Can I throw something at you without piggyback

on everything you just said? Because again, I agree with the assessment. It's well thought out. Let me throw this at you that we haven't talked about yet. We have a woman who has, at least at some point, contemplated suicide. Is it possible that if she did do this, this was a failed attempt?

What do you think about that? And then what? Then she killed her kids? She killed her kids first. Okay. And then she tried to kill herself, but she couldn't go through with it. Yup.

What do you think about that? Absolutely, yeah. Right? I mean, I don't know why she would choose this way to do it. That's kind of where I'm at, because last time she was gonna take pills, which obviously we all know is probably better than cutting your throat and slitting your own throat and bleeding to death.

Maybe the optics of it, she wanted to make it look like they were all taken in a tragic murder. Maybe, but because she's very concerned with appearances and image and things. But at the end of the day, this wouldn't be uncommon, right? Especially if you're dealing with some mental health issues. And we see this all the time when parents kill children. A lot of the times they're doing it because they're like this earth is just too hard. We shouldn't have

to live here. We can be together in heaven. We see religious people do this a lot too. I have, you know, several, you know, thoughts of it in my head right now. So yes, that is possible. And I mean, it doesn't have to be premeditated. I would lean towards premeditation, but it could be something where same type of episode she had with Drake that was caught by Helena, she loses it. With the kids. Why would she kill them that way?

I don't understand. Again, this goes back to our theme, rationalizing the irrational. You and I are not gonna be able to come up with a reason for why that would be justified. But, hear me out. The injury to her neck although superficial It's a big risk. That's right next to the carotid artery it's very easy that she could have cut her throat in a way where she bled out and

It does seem like she's close to that area where maybe the intention was To cut that artery and so then what she got scared and then she was like well I can't go through with this so I've got to figure out a way to like make it look like I didn't do this to my kids And she started staging the scene and cutting herself in different spots or whatever. I don't know. It's again We're trying to talk about someone if she did this that's not gonna make sense to 99.9% of the population But I just wanted to throw that out there because when I saw that scar on her neck I'm like man for someone who's trying to stage a crime, that's a risk to go right there.

Well, she also had to make it look real. But I mean, she could have one more inch. It's gonna be real. It's gonna be real, because she's gonna be dead. If she cuts her artery in her neck, she's done. So I just wanna put that out there, that it's also possible,

all of everything that the assessment by law enforcement based on the forensics, I actually talked about high velocity blood spatter last episode not knowing we're gonna go here this episode it all aligns and then the broken glass you would expect some type of cuts on Darlie's feet you got none you got absolutely none which means the glass was broken after she was able to avoid it then you have the impression of life all these things it's not remember she said the intruder when he was running from her he bumped into the wine rack and made the glass fall and then so she Would have been pursuing after the glass was down

Yeah, that's not what the crime scene says and my favorite word totality right like it's not just one thing One thing you can throw it out as listen. It's an outlier right? It's a red herring It doesn't look great, but it doesn't really mean anything. Sometimes certain pieces of evidence, they just don't align perfectly with the crime. And it doesn't mean that it suggests something else happened. But when you have piece after piece after piece suggesting one thing while the person is saying something else, that's a problem for them, not for the investigators. And so obviously the police are matching Darlie's feet

to the footprints in the kitchen, so they know that those are her footprints. They checked her husband Darren's feet as well, but he had no injuries either, and his feet were much larger than Darlie's. Three bloody towels were recovered from the scene, one in the family room, one in the kitchen, and one on the porch.

The towels found in the kitchen and on the porch had Darlie's blood on them. They'd been used on her neck. There was also a white towel found near Devin's body. However, there was no towel near or on Damon, even though Darley claimed in her statement to the police that she had put one on his back. And as far as the records show, no DNA testing was done on that towel to confirm whose blood it contained. The only thing they knew for sure was the towel hadn't been wet, which will be important to know later. That towel was not wet. Inside the utility room, investigators found partial, latent prints in blood on the door

that led to the garage, but the prints were incomplete and couldn't be matched to anyone. To test Darlie's story, a forensic expert attempted to replicate what the intruder supposedly did, dropping a bloody knife while walking through the utility room towards the garage. But when they dropped a blood-covered knife from waist height, the resulting spatter looked nothing like the small pools of blood actually found in that space. Investigators also took latent and palm prints from the garage windowsill, but the prints never matched. Some of them were overlapping, and a few appeared to belong to a child, but they couldn't say

for certain. A blonde hair was also recovered from the windowsill and while some initially believed it might be Darley's, testing later confirmed it belonged to a Rowlett police officer. The wooden knife block from the kitchen and the cut screen from the garage window were also tested. On one of the bread knives from the kitchen block, a trace evidence analyst found a single fiberglass rod in some rubber dust. The fiberglass matched the material from the garage window screen. No other sources of fiberglass were found in the house, which meant that whoever cut

the screen had used one of the kitchen knives and then put it back in the knife block. Yeah, so, yeah, I wanted to talk about that. So first I want to talk about latent fingerprints because not everyone knows how that's processed. It's different than DNA. It's not just a sample size. With fingerprints, you'll have ridges, lines, different identifiers within that fingerprint, and you're looking for, oh God, I don't even know what it is. It's been so long.

At least 12 markers, probably more. even know what it is. It's been so long at least 12 markers probably more That's like the minimum 12 markers where you can take that fingerprint compare it to Whatever other fingerprint you're comparing it to and make that match But what you have is overlapping prints smudging smearing or a partial print where you only have half the finger All of these things can contribute to less points to make matches. And unfortunately, latent fingerprints are becoming, they're still very reliable, but they're becoming less and less of a tool that you can use because there's so many variables that affect the overall print. When I was going through BCI school, I can tell you, it was difficult even

when we were doing samples to like get a good print so that you could process it for practice purposes. You need a certain type of substrate like a glass or a plastic, something that's flat. Anything with ridges or that's porous can cause problems. There's enhancers that you can use to try to enhance the print. We have this thing called, well, it's super glue essentially, but it's cyanacrylate, which is basically a form of super glue. It attaches to the oils in the fingerprint that it can increase the ridgesges allows you to dust it better But these are all variables that are affected by outside elements, right? So if it's if there's water there if it's like I said all those different

Substrates or if the if the person doesn't put their finger flat on the surface as they're you know touching something You're not gonna get a good print print the best prints that I got was when the you're not gonna get a good print. The best prints that I got was when the perpetrator would use their fingers to open a window because you'd have to put it flat and then they would press on that glass to move the window up.

So usually you get a pretty good print if their hand doesn't slide, but it's very difficult to do. So as you're hearing about all these latent fingerprints that were found but not able to be processed, those are the hurdles. And it was 1997 too, so they had this technology as well. And it hasn't, I hate to say it, there's no advancement in it because a latent print

is a latent print, it's pretty much the same in 2025. There's some better enhancers and stuff and things that you can use chemically to try to enhance a print that's found, but honestly, it is what it is. Now, as far as this knife, I was saying it and I was seeing some of the comments as well. If you're to think that someone came into this property and they cut the knife after the fact,

it's what you just said, where they cut the screen with the knife and then they put the knife back in the knife block. Or if for some reason, the offender entered through this window, let's say it was unlocked. Now the screen suggests it was going outward because that was their point of egress, but let's say they came in the same way they went out.

And you can tell by the cut in the window, we can throw the window picture up right here. It appears to have been done by a razor blade or a knife, some sharp instrument. It just wasn't, it wasn't torn open, right? So if the offender came there with a knife, cuts the screen with the said knife that they brought, enters the apartment or the house, I should say,

and then kills the victims, they take a different knife out of the knife block to do it, why wouldn't they just use the knife that they had to cut the screen? And why would they cut it to get out and then go back and neatly place it in the butcher block? Either way, it doesn't make sense. Because she didn't report that the guy came back in and was like, sorry, borrowed your

knife, just putting it back. Just putting it back in the knife block. Yeah, no, it doesn't make sense either way you slice it. No pun intended. It doesn't work because you would expect the person, if they're coming there to kill you, that they're going to bring a weapon with them, a gun or a knife. Yeah, at least have something that you can- And that's the weapon they're going to use. They're not going to be rummaging around the house that they're not familiar with.

Exactly. That's what I said last time. It doesn't make sense. You come prepared. So that coupled with what you just said where if we're to believe that they entered one way and exited a different way the screen was cut pretty cleanly so they had to use a knife from the property or could you make an argument that whatever knife they brought they grabbed a second knife and That the knife they used to cut the screen they took with them Again, I'm grasping at straws here Yeah, or they would have just like cut the screen and then dropped the knife on the floor and gotten out They would have walked back in the house to put it back

Once again remember Darren's trying here Stephanie. I'm trying Darren's talking his interview. He's like man. These police have some like serious technology I didn't even know they could do the stuff in the movies or on TV and it's like yes They're going to look through everything and you think that they're not going to assume That the screen was cut with anything in your house because of the story you're telling but they're going to try to verify your story With actual evidence and they're gonna find the tiniest bit of fiberglass on that knife that matches the garage window and there's no fiberglass anywhere else in that house. So it was definitely the knife he used to cut the garage window.

So now explain that, Darlie, explain that to us. Please. And the forensics, the forensics aren't gonna lie. Unless we're going with the whole theory that law enforcement planted fiberglass on the knife. Yeah, come on. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

And it's not, again, totality. It's not just the knife. It's not just the impression. It's not the inconsistencies in the stories. It's all of it. It's the, yeah, the glass over her footprints. The vacuum cleaner was moved several times as if somebody's setting the scene.

It's Darlie's blood found in the sink And so they said somebody also tried to clean up Yeah, the low velocity blood spatter verse high velocity blood spatter and then oh by the way the fact that suddenly this offender decided to stab the two kids one way and Completely change up their mo on the last one on Darley. Mm-hmm. Yep Doesn't make sense. So the night shirt that Darley was wearing during the alleged attack was also collected for forensic testing.

Blood spatter expert Tom Bevel examined it and found four cast off or spatter stains, each containing a mix of Darley's blood and the blood of either Damon or Devin. But one stain stood out. It was on the back right shoulder of the shirt and contained only Devin's blood. Beville concluded that the stain was consistent with Darlie raising a knife over her shoulder, causing Devin's blood to drop onto the fabric,

then bringing the knife back down to stab again. And listen, in none of her stories that she's telling, does she ever talk about going near Devin? She claims she put a towel on Damon's back, which that wasn't even true, because there's no towel there. She never talked about going near Devin. So how are both of your son's blood on your shirt

that you were wearing and mixed with your own blood? How is that happening? And how is Devin's blood on the back of your shirt? You didn't even go near him, according to your own version of events. Yeah, we've talked about cast-off before. Sometimes you see it on walls where you can basically tell how many times someone was stabbed based on cast-off because as the knife goes back the blood shoots off of that knife or that blunt object and spatters on the wall behind the

offender. So this is a little bit different. And honestly, the first time I've heard of something like this, but I am by no means a blood spatter expert, and it's interesting where the knife goes behind the head, and instead of cast off on a wall, the cast off is on the back of the shirt, based on how far the knife was brought back. Extremely interesting and makes sense to me.

Stabbing with that kind of force does align with the kinds of injuries that Devon sustained Oh, yeah, they would bring in the knife over the head and really slamming it back down. Absolutely so a fascinating interpretation and that's why they're experts and I'm not but Yeah, seen cast off a lot never where they've used it to determine Who the kid this who the offender was based on it being on the back of their shirt? But everything you said as well does make sense as far as the situation because she didn't go near him. And yet how do you get blood on the back of your shirt from that from your son?

Difficult to process and see how that would make sense. She never talked about going near him, not in any versions of her stories. But it is important to mention that Bevel, the expert, has been linked to at least a few controversial cases, including some wrongful convictions. I don't take too much stock in that. It's like you're not going to get it right every time. And I don't think that this guy's going in trying to wrongfully convict people, but it goes to his credibility. It's also worth noting that Darlie's night shirt was cut off in the ambulance by a paramedic who was focused on saving her life. So that shirt wasn't preserved like evidence should have been at the time. So it's possible that some of the blood could have transferred after that.

That's a great point. But how would some of the blood from Devin transfer to the back of her shirt? So think about this. In the ambulance. Think about this. Well, first off, let's address both things because I've said it before. I think it's an interesting interpretation, but in many instances you can find an expert that will tell you whether you're on the defense or prosecution, they're for hire, it's subjective. The interpretation of the science is subjective.

There's no mistake about that. So has he gotten cases wrong? Absolutely. With the intentionality behind that, only he knows. Listen, it's not a direct science as far as their interpretation, but we've seen multiple cases involving blood spatter where one expert says one thing and another expert says another thing So that's put that aside how you would have this happen Let's say the same EMT who was working on Devon before getting into the rescue Has Devon's blood on him and then while they're cutting off the shirt on her He didn't change his gloves or he had something on his arm where there could be a transfer of Devon's blood on him. And then while they're cutting off the shirt on her, he didn't change his gloves or he had something on his arm where there could be a transfer of Devon's blood

onto that shirt as it's being discarded. Oh, that's a stretch, I think. Oh, you don't think that- Especially to drip like that because it was a large area of blood. I throw it out there because we, I am trying to stay impartial here. So I can see that angle where...

I mean, you can see it as a defense attorney would use that to cause reason without. Of course. Yeah. But what's your idea realistically? Like, what do you think is more likely, given the totality of evidence? I'm trying to see the amount of blood because I can't see the shirt here.

There is a picture of the shirt that I'm trying to click on, but to be frankly honest with you guys, it's sending me to like a website that's not's not letting me access it so I can't see it but if you're talking about a pool a small pool of blood on the back of the shirt that's less than like a swipe I would I would I would lean towards bevels interpretation but if it's a small microscopic amount and it's just a little smear I could see this being a possible scenario where the blood was transferred from an ambulance worker to Darlie's shirt as she's being worked on in the back of the rescue.

It's pretty tight quarters back there. So I have pictures. Stephanie was able to find a couple photos and she sent them to me. You can see the front of the night shirt. You can see the back of the night shirt. It'll be up here for you. And they cut it on the front, by the way. They cut the t-shirt on the front, not on the back. And you can see the cut of the night shirt. You can see the back of the night shirt It'll be up here for you and they cut it on the front by the way They cut the the t-shirt on the front and you can see the cut right down the middle

They put the shirt back together. You can see the cut as they're getting the shirt off for her But now if you focus on the back, there's a lot of blood on the back There's a there's a prominent blood stain up near the neck area that would make sense because she was cut on the neck But from what we're gathering Devon's blood droplet was a smaller droplet, but it was amongst all that other stuff, which you would expect in a cast off. It's not gonna be a prominent amount of blood.

It's a spray, but I would also say, and maybe Stephanie, you agree now too, after seeing it, is it impossible, if I told you for certain that the blood was transferred from the first responder, the EMT, onto the shirt, would you be shocked by that at least? Kind of, because it looks like a drop. It doesn't look like a smear.

It looks like a drop, and you can tell the tail is kind of like extended, which looks like a drop of something like coming off. So unless the guy was dripping with the blood, I don't see how that could happen, no. I agree with you. I agree with you. It does look more like cast off, based on what we see with a high velocity blood spatter

You have the tail on it, which we described in last episode So if you made me put a bet on it, I would agree with bevel although he is much more experienced than we are but It does you're right unless it was an active injury and the EMT worker was Flailing their arms because it's pretty saturated too. You know, it's pretty saturated. Like blood dropped on, enough to saturate through the shirt and leave still a very dark stain with like a little tail that looks like something was moving when that blood was left

there. Yeah, I would also even push a little bit further, and this isn't always like a standard policy, it doesn't always work this way, but as you had just said said when the EMT workers are working they cut up the shirt, right? They open it up They don't necessarily remove it from the back So her shirt would the back of her shirt would not have been exposed to the EMT the EMT workers that were working on her because the shirt would have been up against the Gurney or whatever she was laying on. Yeah, whatever she was laying on. So again, to have a droplet of blood on the backside after the fact.

It's a little weird. Highly unlikely, not impossible. I'll at least give you that. But a defense attorney can still argue it. All day long and all you need to do is convince one jury member. But again, this is one thing in a mountain of things. We're trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. We really are. We're trying real hard. Yeah. And we still haven't, we still have other things to talk about that do potentially go in her favor,

but there's a lot more against her than, than with her right now. So that bloody sock, that's what I always really focused on. What a lot of people are focused on. Yes. The bloody sock found down the alley, a couple houses down from the Routier home. Some of the blood came from Devon, some from Damon, and one stain returned no results. Investigators also found fibers on the sock that matched Darren's sneakers. There's been a lot of debate about whether Darlie could have planted the sock herself. To do that, she would have had to have stabbed the boys, staged the scene, run the sock outside, come back

in, cut herself, and then scream to alert Darren before calling 911. So some people don't think that's possible. But let's say this was a preemptive thing, like a planned thing. Let's say she maybe, you know, did a little pinprick on her sons and got some blood on a sock and then threw that sock that, you know, earlier that day down an alley, not on the street so that people, somebody wouldn't see it and walk by and grab it, but down an alley so that it was already planted and there, that's possible. It's also possible she had help from somebody. Maybe Darren, maybe someone else, who knows. But is the intruder cutting the garage screen window with a knife, a bread knife, putting the bread knife back in the kitchen and then crawling through the window with a sock attached to him that just happens to fall off a few houses down?

I don't know how possible that does seem either. So because you have to look at the whole totality of the circumstances. If he's cutting a hole in the screen, he's using a knife from inside the house. And then he's putting it back in the butcher block while everybody's freaking out and calling 911. And then he's just casually strolling out. And then he's like, Oh, socks attached to me. Let me get this out of here and dropping it. Or it just falls off of him for some reason. Like, what does he have Velcro shoes on? I don't know. It doesn't make a lot of sense. No, but the sock is something that is, you know, outside what we have been talking about this episode,

where this would suggest an outside party, because I don't see a world where Darlie or Darren are running out of the house and planting the sock after the fact. So it would have to be beforehand, and that they would have to work off the assumption that no one other than law enforcement would find the sock before the incident occurred.

So there's a lot of what it's- I think it was planted. I think it was planted. Okay. And honestly, she could have run out of the house and planted it that night. And then came back. It wasn't that far down. Let's keep talking about it,

but it's definitely something that I'm interested in for sure because it doesn't make, this isn't one of the pieces where it makes Darlie look bad. Mm-hmm. Well, let's talk about the timing then. According to Nordstick, the average person can run 100 meters in 15 to 18 seconds. The distance from the Routier living room down the driveway through the alley into the trash can

where the sock was found is 89 meters. But let's round it up to 100 to make things easier math-wise and to give some extra wiggle room. That means Darlie could have reached the trash can in 15 to 18 seconds and made it back inside in under a minute, far under a minute in my opinion. And that's without factoring in adrenaline, which could have helped her move even faster.

So yes, it's physically possible. Does that mean she did it? No, it does mean she could have. I think that's more possible than this offender coming in, cutting the hole in the screen, putting the knife back, getting a sock stuck to him on his way out. And it just happens to drop, you know, drop off him less than a hundred yards away from the house.

Yeah. And I have the photo up right here. If you're on YouTube, you're seeing it as well, where it's a map of the house and then the location where the sock is found. It's about three houses down. It looks like it's in the, I guess it would be the, I don't know if it would be the back or the front of the house. I'm assuming it would be the front. It looks, even though the driveways are kind of on the back. If

you're looking at this map, you have Eagle Drive that wraps around the house and then you have the three houses to the right of the Routier home and it looks like they're driveways in the back. So yeah, I mean it would be very possible You just did the math on it right very quickly could have been done And if she's had some time after killing them, you know before she stabs herself She could run she now there's blood everywhere. Yeah. Yeah, she could done that. She puts the knife down Right. She's got the knife there. She grabs a sock Drips it in some blood the blood from both the boys to really add emphasis to it. Although I am a little concerned about the blood that was unidentified. I don't know what the...

Like why is the... Yeah, it's just weird the way the blood is showing up. It's from both of the boys, you know? Yeah, from both boys. So did he have the sock on while he was killing them or did he have or did he run into the sock after? And that's how the blood transferred from him to the boys But was what did he pick up the sock and like wipe his hands off? Was it was it like that like what's going on? And also like the sock and you said it like a sock normally doesn't just like stick to you Exactly, it's like the movies, you know

So unless they person had it in their pocket and then threw it out Which I don't know why you would do that because now your DNA could be on Yeah, I mean it I'm sure this is a piece of evidence and I would as well if you're in the camp that Darlie is innocent This is something you want to hang your hat on because there's nothing here that says 100% she did it. There's also nothing that says she didn't so this is something that's open to Interpretation and depending on what you believe let's be honest It works for both scenarios if you're in the camp that someone else did this this sock proves it the sock proves it Yeah, he ran out of the house

He as he was running away not really what was going on the sock falls off It doesn't explain how it stuck to him or how it ended up with him That doesn't explain that and and what do you make of the some fibers on the sock coming back. It doesn't explain how it stuck to him or how it ended up with him. That doesn't explain that. And what do you make of some fibers on the sock coming back to Darren's shoes? I mean, he did say it was an old sock pile that they used for cleaning rags and stuff. What about this then?

Could somebody have been wearing the sock? Well then how did it get off their foot when they're running, like, did they take it off? And it seems planted to me. I'm just gonna say it seems planted I'm going over all the possible scenarios and none of them seem as possible as that it was planted Well that goes to what I was gonna say about this whole thing What detectives are doing here what the prosecution is doing here is they're putting out the evidence and they're putting out the science behind it

They're saying hey listen Yes, there was a sock found down the road. It had blood from both Damon and Devin on it But here's something you should know You could get out to that location and back in under 18 seconds take that information and do what you will with it But we're just telling you the facts, but we're not disregarding it. We're acknowledging it exists. We can't completely explain it We're just giving you the distance and the time it would take to go put that sock out there and get back to the house. Now that we've disclosed that information to you,

here's all the other evidence that we have inside the house that we do think we can explain. And it tells a story of someone inside that home killing those two boys. So what they're doing here is the right way of doing it. They're not trying to discredit it. They're not taking the sock and throwing it in a trash can, not disclosing it. They're putting it out there and allowing the jury to process it whatever way they want. But when you take into

consideration everything, there's a mountain of evidence here and not much that suggests an outside intruder. So yes, I don't have an explanation for it. We can hypothesize. I think that if we found out there was another person involved and this sock was a contributing factor to that That would that would not surprise me But it's hard to take this sock and say you know what based on everything else you just told us Stephanie I'm discrediting all of it and disregarding it and this sock tells me everything I need to know You have to take into consideration everything and so yeah, I acknowledge that this is something I can't explain. And it could be as simple as it was planted or the, or it could be something

else. But if it is, that means this offender did a pretty damn good job of not leaving any type of trace DNA behind other than the sock. And even then their blood wasn't, wasn't caught on if they were injured. Yeah. Like I said, I think it's more likely that it was planted, but everything is possible. But if you look at it, it's just more likely to me that it was planted.

Based on everything you've told us tonight, I would concur with that assessment. Yeah, it seems like the easiest way that it ended up there. But if we had a list going of Darlie's innocent, Darlie's not innocent, I would argue that without anything to suggest it was planted I would put this in the Darley is innocent category. Although there hasn't been many stuff in that category tonight. Yeah Yeah, we're not doing we're not Darley's not doing well in the pros cons list

No, but let's be fair the sock based on what we know it very well could be said that that was another person up Which may have been away from the house, which may have been exactly why it was planted there. Yep, exactly. Yeah, I'm with you I'm with you So there was two additional pieces of evidence recovered that we need to talk about a pubic hair and a facial hair According to an appeal document quote the record does not clearly reveal where in the house They were found end quote the pubic hair couldn't be tested and the facial hair didn't belong to anyone in the Routier household. Naturally, this is the kind of evidence

that Darlie supporters have clung to. They believe it could belong to the real killer. I don't. Listen, the cleaning lady was there earlier that day. If she's cleaning other houses or if she's just coming from her own house and she's got brooms, maybe she cleaned somebody else's house,

she's got a broom, now she's cleaning your house. And yeah, once again, there's stuff we don't see microscopically around our homes. Even if a cleaning lady comes in, it doesn't mean it's a pristine sanitary situation. That could have been transferred from anybody. It could have been transferred from Dana, who was staying there for a week.

Maybe she has a boyfriend or something, or she was with a man and his stuff got on her, and then she dropped it at the house. It could have come from the cleaning lady, Helena, who came and started cleaning. Women have facial hair too. Yeah, maybe she started cleaning. Maybe she was cleaning somebody's bathroom and that's where the pubic hair came from. Like it's so such a reach to be like, oh, well, there's a hair, one hair from a pubic hair and one hair from a beard and and they don't match anybody who lives there

So that must be the killer. No, we are bringing stuff around with us everywhere. We go Yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of DNA from different people who you've encountered that may have never entered your home that Exactly, but again To keep it as you know fair as we can This is something that you could put in that category as well, although it's not... A reasonable doubt, yeah. A reasonable doubt where it suggests another person.

As far as the pubic hair not being tested, I would think that's because there was no flesh attached to it. However, with the advancements in technology we have today, mitochondrial DNA testing, you don't need flesh. You can get it from the actual hair follicle itself. They could retest it, but she's been convicted, so why would they do that, you know? Well, that would be something that the defense would have to... You don't need flesh. You can get it from the actual hair follicle itself. They could retest it, but she's been convicted. So why would they do that?

Well, that would be something that the defense would have to appeal and request. And then the facial hair itself, you have it. It belongs to someone. You could always run it through a DNA database today, like a GED match or something like that, to see if any, you get a familial match, because we can definitely both agree

that the advancements in DNA technology today are much greater than they were back then. So is it possible that they could use those two pieces of hair and figure out who they belong to now? Even retest the blood on the sock and see if you can get that third unknown profile. Agreed, agreed, absolutely. There are things you could do now

if you wanted to make a gripe about this to say, hey, these things need to be retested to confirm what we've already deduced based on our findings. I wonder if her defense team has appealed and asked for that to happen, and if they haven't, why? Because if she's saying she's innocent, wouldn't you want all the evidence tested unless you know it's going to come back to, as Derek says, a nothing burger? That it's gonna be, oh, this is Dana's boyfriend's pubic hair, or this is the, you know, mailman's beard hair, and it was just stuck to a package. Like, if you know it's gonna come back to nothing, maybe you wouldn't request for those things to be tested.

I think they would have to be more critical in the case, like, be more of a reason why she was convicted, because here's the argument for not doing it, right? If you're gonna make an appeal for this, you're gonna say, oh, we want the pubic hair and we want the facial hair tested. Okay, let's do that. Let's say with the advancements, they're able to identify that it belongs to a male individual.

It could be a mailman, it could be anyone. It could be someone who worked with Darlie. It could be someone who worked with Darren. It doesn't mean they killed him. So it still doesn't connect the person inside the worked with Darlie. It could be someone who worked with Darren. It doesn't mean they killed him. So it still doesn't connect the person inside the home with just that. Yeah, but let's say they found out who this person was and it came back to like some, you know,

registered sex offender or something. That has no connection? Yeah. So there's still the chance of that. You could find that, but if it came back and it's like, oh no, it's like, yeah, this is a logical reason why this stuff would have been here. Then it just doesn't look good for Darlie because now that little reasonable doubt that her sport is clinging to that's gone

Yeah I mean listen if they can get the funding doesn't hurt to test it because if it does come back like you said to someone Who has a checkered past and maybe is in prison for a similar crime right now from that area? Well, then guess what now you don't only have a smoke. Yes and fire. Yeah, you have suspect You got an actual suspect now. So unless there's something with the evidence itself and the way it was collected that they can't test it, I see no harm in it. Although there are the factors of DNA testing that we've talked about for years, which is why we started Criminal Coffee, where very expensive, there's a thousand

rape kits out there right now that are victims who need to be tested. So is it going to be a priority? It would probably have to be independently tested by a private organization that Routier's team would have to pay for. Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, if you, if you're saying you're innocent, you want to get out, do it. Could be done. Start a GoFundMe. All right.

So the pubic and the facial hair aside, things are still not looking good for Darlie. There was no conclusive evidence at the scene to support her story of an intruder and the results from forensic testing only raised more questions So investigators continued building their case and it wouldn't be long before they had enough to make an arrest But that will have to wait for next time because we're already two hours Yeah, we're into this two hours and 15 minutes as we're with on our ticker right now. Yeah, I leave this case We have a little bit more insight with the sock and the unfortunate thing is we'll never know 100%. There's a couple conclusions that can be made based on where it was found and the experiments they did to reenact it to see how long it would take. A lot of the forensic evidence leans towards an inside job

and that inside person being Darlie. I did have some questions after part two where I was wondering how this could have all gone down without Darren being aware of it. But, you know, there's a couple of things I can take away from this. He's upstairs. He's sleeping. He's in a deep sleep. He doesn't hear it. She's obviously downstairs, being very quiet.

If she had killed the two boys, it would have been done quickly. And there might not have been a lot of noise. And then she could have done everything else you wanted to do, like the planting of the sock and all these other things before injuring herself. And I'm also gonna say this, and it's not meant to be offensive, it's not meant to be disrespectful,

but everyone, I'm a human being, you judge people when you see them, and just from the brief interviews that I've seen with Darren, frankly, it doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed, that I've seen with Darren, frankly, it doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm just going to be honest with you. And it seems like he's going to believe whatever he's told.

That's just my opinion. I could be completely wrong. So to think that he would come downstairs and buy what Darlie's saying, hook, line, and sinker, it doesn't seem like a stretch as much after hearing him open his mouth. Yeah, I just thought it was weird. Like also during his police interview, he was like talking to the detective and like, Oh yeah, I really like Darlie's new plastic surgery, like her breasts and like, it was weird. It's just that he's a weird dude. She's weird too.

They're weird. And I don't know if it's, you know, I'm not trying to be judgemental, but they're weird. They're weird. The way they reacted to everything was weird. The gangster's paradise, the knives in the pockets. The gangster's paradise slander has to stop. Stop it. All right. Okay. Coolio R.I.P. Yes. Okay. Well, he lived that life, man. As we're going into episode four, and I pose this question to you and everybody else, is there anybody out there at this point you were saying, okay, I think Darley did it, but I think Darren's involved as well. Even if it's just a clean up after the fact.

I go back and forth, but I would say no, he wasn't involved. He came downstairs and he saw the final results. Yeah. And maybe in the back of his mind, he knows something else could have happened, but he believes his wife. Yeah, at the end of the day, like knows something else could have happened, but he believes his wife Yeah at the end of the day like I my gut is not telling me he was involved But and I think she could have easily done all of this on her own

I mean the crime scene was a mess and didn't match her story So if she'd had helped I hope that she would have you know had it set up a little bit more to Sort of match her story and that Darren and Darley statements when they talked to the police would have matched more. Like that would be the intelligent thing to do. So I don't know. I just don't think my gut tells me no, but my gut also tells me he's a weird dude. So in the first episode, I asked all of you to pause the video or pause the episode

and tell us whether you thought she was guilty or innocent. Now I'm asking you after episode three, we're more than halfway through the series. Do you think she's guilty or innocent now that you've heard about the sock, now that you've heard about the pubic hair, the facial hair, has it swayed any of you who felt one way or the other? And if you do think she's guilty, add a little bit onto that. Do you think this was a sole job, she did it by herself, or do you think potentially she had help?

Weigh in down in the comments below, let us know what you think. If you're on audio, you can leave us a review and leave us a comment there as far as your thoughts on this episode. We appreciate you guys being here. We have a lot more to cover. Still two episodes to go. Until then, everyone stay safe out there and we'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks for watching!